Arkansas Legislative Council (ALC)
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Unknown speaker
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Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
All right, members, if you could go
Speaker 4
3:19
ahead and grab your seats. Members, if you could go ahead and grab your seats.
We're going to go ahead and get the meeting started.
Members, we're calling Arkansas Legislative Council to order. Members, first thing
we want to start with is recognize Representative Les Warren for our prayer. If you would, please. Please pray with
Representative Les Warren
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3:50
me. Dear Heavenly Father, we come to you this morning and we
just come with grateful hearts. We thank you for the state that we get to live in.
Father, we pray that you would guide us in everything that we do, that what we do would be honoring to you. And, Father, that it would increase what we get to do here in this state. Father, we thank you that you allow us to live in a state that has so much to offer. Father, we pray for those in charge. We pray for our country. And, Father, we just lift up those with needs today,
whether it's illness or situations. Father, we just pray that you would be with them in their time of need. Father, we pray that you'd be with us now. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen. All right,
members, in your packet is the minutes from the last meeting. I need a motion to adopt the minutes from previous meeting. Got a motion, a second. All those in favor, say aye. Aye.
Opposed? The ayes have it. All right, members, at this time, I'd like to recognize Representative Lane Jean and Senator Dismang for a special presentation. Come on down, Kevin.
All right. Senator Dismayne, Representative Gene, you're both recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think, you know, everyone's aware of
Senator Jonathan Dismang
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6:19
what's happening here. to be honest lost we have an incredible mind that's leaving legislative research uh you know
i've been able to serve as chairman and that we mentioned in the citation here in a minute i think really since i started as budget chair i was able to serve with uh kevin and his leadership in the division and then really across the state in almost everything we did you know i'll save all the chuck norris jokes and all that i've already done that once but we all know he's kind of our version of Chuck Norris here in the Bureau and in fact I mean he I guess have you worked with three different administrations now yeah three different administrations and so
one of my favorite stories is when Governor Sanders came in and her staff come in we would always talk about Kevin and they'd never met Kevin and so they finally just thought that Kevin was my imaginary friend that I always refer to it and so but again we just I think everybody is just so thankful to be able to work with you and really be a part and you be a part of this process. And with that, I'm going to read the Senate citation. Whereas Mr. Kevin Anderson is retiring on June 30th, 2025, after dedicating more than 30 years of service to state government and leaving a solid
example of commitment and legacy of stalwart leadership for all. And Kevin joined the Bureau of Legislative Research in 1992. As a legislative analyst, he was promoted to Administrator of the Budget and Fiscal Review section in 2006 and promoted to Assistant Director of the Legislative Physical Service Division on 2013. I have worked closely with Mr. Anderson as co-chair of Joint Budget Committee since 2021 and Kevin's expertise and professionalism have been invaluable to me and the entire General Assembly. And whereas Mr. Anderson is known as a trusted colleague and
admired leader among Bureau staff and never asked his employees to do more than he was willing to do himself. His vast knowledge of state budgets has been relied upon by legislators, the governor's office, the Department of Finance Administration, and other state agencies for decades. And whereas the members of the Arkansas Senate wish to join me in commending Mr. Kevin Anderson for his exemplary leadership and outstanding service and wishing him well in his retirement and all his future endeavors. Now therefore pursuant to the motion of Senator Jonathan Dismang, the Arkansas Senate directs his citation to be
presented on this 20th day of June 2025. Thank you.
Representative Lane Jean
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8:58
We have a house citation that says the same thing the Senate did.
I've been budget chair 11 years, the whole 11 years I've
been with Kevin. And all of us are going to miss him. He's a tremendous asset. And when you came to him to a problem or something that you're trying to work on, it stayed confidential. Neither one of the chairmen ever knew anything that y'all were doing. And that's what's great about our organization and Kevin is the professionalism. And the professionalism is what makes us shine.
Now, we go out in our districts and fub up and make us look dumb at times, but it's not our staff. Our staff is excellent here, and Kevin has been excellent. And one thing, I thought I found out the last week of session Kevin was retiring. So we all went home, and I came back about, oh, I don't know, two
weeks later to do some stuff. And I went into his office, and this was early May, and he done cleaned everything out. He's ready to go and he's going back home to Hot Springs to be with his dad, his hometown
and I'm proud of him and Kevin you've been a great friend and great for the state of Arkansas.
Speaker 37
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Y'all are way too kind, way better than I
Speaker 39
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deserve. Thank you all so much. It's it's been a great 33 years. I'm very blessed. I work with incredible
people and work for incredible people I couldn't ask for any more thank you guys so much I appreciate
all right members we're going to move right along to the revenue port dr. Carlos
Chair
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11:34
Silva you recognize sir I think mr. chairman Carlos Silva your let's have research and today I'm here presenting the May 2025 monthly revenue report as As of month of May, we have $7.4 billion in gross general revenues.
There is $372.7 million below last year today, or around 4.8% below last year today. As we move into net available for distribution, we'll have $5.9 billion, which is around $244 million below last year today or 4% below that last year today when you compare those years. As we move here to page number two, we have the updated forecast from the agency from the month of May.
And this month is a little bit above the forecast at $17.1 million. As we reach to the end of the month, year of June, and we look into what the current collections are right now, it's still, things are moving in the right direction, a little below than last year the same day, but we still have a lot of important days coming in for collections at the end of the month, and we are really close to reaching our RSA in the next few days if we haven't already reached
based on the preliminary numbers we had in the last few days as we move from page number three to page number five we'll have more details about the general revenue collections and page five and beyond we'll have special revenue collections no major changes there and if there's any any further questions all right members any questions representative meeks you're recognized thank Hey,
Representative Stephen Meeks
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13:22
just way over here to the left, just
based upon what I'm seeing there with that chart with the 17 million, do we have any, again, I know we've got a few weeks left in the fiscal year, but what's the final surplus?
Are we going to have a surplus at the end of the
Chair
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13:42
year? Any idea what that's looking like? Yeah, so as of, and this is the last estimates that I have here, of course, has a little lag on what the numbers are going to come through. So we would have around $499 in gross collections in order to reach the expectations that for gross collections we need around $803, so $300 million we need in gross. As we look into NET, we had around $379 million.
We need $403 million. So for NET, we need around $24 million there that we need in the next week or so. But there's a lot of large days for collection. The 20th is a large day. So is the 24th with sales and use tax. We're going to receive a lot of that in the next week, I guess. Okay, so based on it looks like we're
Representative Stephen Meeks
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14:32
just about going to hit our targets and there won't be a whole lot of surplus then at the end of the
Chair
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year? We would have some surplus.
We would have some surplus. But the level of the surplus will depend on the next couple of days here, what we see on collections. So if things keep moving in the same direction as they have moved up to now, we would be pretty close to the revenue forecast from
the agency made. Excellent. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Representative. Representative
Representative Johnny Rye
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15:00
Rye, you're recognized. Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Right here, sir. Question for you. The income tax has been extended from April 15th to September 15th. Can you give us just a little bit of an impact that that's going to have as far as the budget?
Yeah. So as of right now, the month of June, we've seen the preliminary numbers here
Chair
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15:21
up to a couple days ago. The collections have been going faster than they expected. So the original update that the agents have given last month, they expect it to be a little bit lower, but the payments are being a little bit faster. So we might not see as much of a change in the next fiscal year, the first month in July.
Members, any other questions? Secretary Hudson has some wise words to add. That's
Representative John P. Carr
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16:00
a high bar. Jim Hudson, Secretary of DFA, just real quickly clarify, it was extended to July 31st, not September 15th, and so we're not really clear at this point how much is going to shift from June 30 for estimated tax payments primarily into July, into the next fiscal year.
We're looking at that. Our revised forecast took that into account. Just to also clarify as well, the revised forecast has a projected surplus of $215. million we overachieved um you know on that forecast so we're already about 17 i think ahead of that so likely if we finish at least and on forecast in june you know we're going to have a surplus just a little bit ahead of 215 so somewhere kind of in that range so we will have
Representative Stephen Meeks
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16:48
a surplus thank you members any other questions all right seeing none
thank you for the presentation Members, that takes us on down to the executive subcommittee report. I
Senator Ben Gilmore
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17:06
recognize co-chair Senator Gilmore. Thank you, Representative Eaves. Members, the executive subcommittee met on
June 9th and approved the premiums and deductibles for the state captive insurance program as presented by Stevens Insurance and Perinite. Subcommittee also authorized BLR to move forward with a contract with claims administration agreement for the captive.
For both the contract and the premiums, the deductibles, the subcommittee authorized ALC co-chairs to finalize the authorization by emergency action. Those actions are attached to your report. At its June 9th meeting, the executive subcommittee also adopted a motion to cancel the regular ALC meeting for July of this year and to authorize all ALC subcommittees to meet in July, only to take up items that have imminent need and cannot wait until the regularly scheduled August ALC meetings. Subcommittees that need to meet in July are permitted to meet outside the regular ALC meeting week,
and all actions that normally would have been reported at the July 2025 ALC meeting will be final and reported to ALC at its August 15th meeting. Subcommittee met again yesterday, June 19th, and reviewed and approved emergency rules for DHS regarding psychiatric residential treatment facilities services for children under age 21. Mr. Chair, I move adoption of the report. I would like to add a few comments after that, please. Members, any questions? I see none. Senator Gilmore, go ahead. All right. Thank you. Members, I do want to point out a couple of things.
First of all, about the authorizing the committees to meet in July. That's something that we historically do. You may remember. In addition to that, though, I want to go back and talk about the captive in this formation. There's been a lot of work going into that. It's been vetted heavily over the course of several years. I just want to thank the predecessors of myself, Represives Eves, for their hard work in initiating that and I want to say thank you to all of those who have had a role in the formation of the captive I think what we are doing here is something that is quite phenomenal in fact I think
it's we're going to look back and say I think we did something really good here and so I appreciate the latitude in letting the executive subcommittee do its work and I appreciate you all supporting that and I'm excited to see what the future holds with that and so thank you so much
and I'm done thank you senator and we have a motion to adopt the report of the second the second all those in favor say aye opposed motion is adopted members I need to recognize senator McKee for a motion you're recognized sir thank you mr.
Senator Matt McKee
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19:32
chairman the charitable penal and Corrections institutions subcommittee will be meeting on July 10th to discuss the prisoner escape from Calico Rock and review the policies and protocols the Department of Corrections has in place regarding security. In the event the subcommittee needs to further investigate the matter, I make a motion to authorize the Charitable Penal and Corrections Institution subcommittee to undertake an investigation into this matter and to report its findings to the Legislative Council. Thank you, Senator. Members, any questions on this?
Representative Stephen Meeks
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19:59
Seeing no questions, we have a motion. We have a
second. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed? The ayes having motion carries. Thank you, Senator. All right, members, we're going to move down to the reports of the standing committee, and without objection, we're going to move one up ahead. We're going to have the peer committee go first, and that is Representative Wardlaw, you're recognized. I'm
Representative Jeff Wardlaw
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20:26
sorry, try that. You good? Yeah. The peer and review subcommittee met Tuesday, June 17th. The subcommittee received reports, received requests, and approved the following various temporary
Appropriations, American Rescue, Plan Act Appropriation, Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act Appropriation, Restricted Reserve Fund Transfers, and a request to maintain the reduction on revenues from state central services. I move adoption of the report. All right. Thank
you, Senator. We have a couple of questions. Senator Tucker, you're recognized.
Senator Clarke Tucker
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21:05
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have a few questions. I think most likely for ADE at the appropriate time, I'd like to just ask them a
few questions. All right. Let's go ahead and do that now. Let me get someone from ADE.
Good morning. If you would go ahead and just introduce yourself for the record and then we can get on with the
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questions. Sure. Good morning. Jacob Olivas, Secretary of Education. Courtney Salas-Ford, Department of Education.
Senator Clarke Tucker
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22:05
Thank you all. I'm going to be up to your
left over here. All right. I just have a few questions about – I'm trying to put a finger on how much money cumulatively we've spent on EFAs since the beginning. So in year one, how much did we put into – how much did we put into the budget for EFAs and how much was one-time money? Yeah, Greg may be – sorry to put you on the spot, Greg. And I'm just looking for something that's close. If it's off by,
you know, a million, I'm not, I just kind of want the ballpark.
Senator Clarke Tucker
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23:35
first year. Okay, for year one, put into the budget. Yes. Okay. And then what about year two? $97 million. So was that 65 on top of the 32? So $65 million new into the budget? Yes. Okay. So in RSA right now, there's
Speaker 104
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$177 million for it. Okay. So the 90 that we put in, or I guess
Senator Clarke Tucker
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23:54
we put 80 into the budget this year on top of that? So this year in RSA, there's $177 million.
Okay. And then in the session this year, the legislature put $90 million in one-time money on top of the $177 million in the budget? Yes. Okay. And then this is $90 million on top of the one-time money that we did during this? No. This is the 90 from this? Yes. Okay. Okay. That's what I was trying to wrap my hands around. And then do we anticipate that this will cover all of the EFA applications for the 25-26 school year? Based off what we
Speaker 104
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have right now, we're still going through all that
because the applications that we received, we're still going through those as well as getting admitted into school. So we're following the process that we have. So right now we think it is, but we're still continuing to evaluate that. Okay,
Senator Clarke Tucker
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24:48
so we just don't know yet. And the application deadline is Sunday? Or I thought I read that in the newspaper.
Speaker 109
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Maybe I didn't. There is a priority window set, but that doesn't mean we stop accepting applications. That's just the priority window that stops,
and then we will continue to accept applications after
Senator Clarke Tucker
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25:07
that. Okay. And is there any deadline, or could that happen during the school year if people's
Speaker 109
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circumstances change? Yeah, around mid-August, we have not put that out there to anybody, but around mid-August we anticipate setting a stop for this coming school year. um again we will still continue to accept applications for the next school year but um once school has already started then we will close it off for this
Senator Clarke Tucker
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25:32
year okay and then my last question yeah i also think i read this in the newspaper maybe i misread that too apologies mr
wickline but about 39 000 applications have been approved at this point um how many how many of those are private school as opposed to home school all right private schools around 28,000 home schools
Speaker 109
25:56
around 16,000 so have we had 44,000 approved no that's applications received okay all right thank y'all
Speaker 113
26:05
all right thanks in represent college recognize thank you
Representative Andrew Collins
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26:13
Mr. Chair, I would just, at the appropriate time, move that we take out this $90 million for a separate vote and approve the rest. All right, members, that
would be a substitute motion. You want to review the whole report, pulling out this one for a separate vote. All right, members, that is the motion. We have a substitute motion currently. Any questions? Do you have a second? Second.
I just told you, it's to review the entire peer report, pulling out the $90 million from a restrictive reserve transfer for a separate vote. Did I get that right, Representative Collins? Everybody good? All right, we
have a motion and a second on the substitute motion. All those in favor signify by saying – hang on, I
Representative James Eaton
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27:08
see it. Thank you. senator Dotson thank you mr.
Senator Jim Dotson
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27:15
chair and sorry I wasn't able to ask this question
of the department before motions were made didn't wasn't aware
there was going to be a motion on it but I'm just curious how many of those applicants if this 90 million isn't approved would then be unable to be funded for this coming school year roughly 12,800 so 12,800 students would be ineligible or
or are unable to be funded for this coming school year in the school of their choice if this is not approved out of the 480,000 K-12 students in the state. Thank you. Thank you, Senator. Members, any other questions
before we continue? All right, seeing none, we have a substitute motion, and we have a second. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed? No. And those who have it, motion fails.
Representative Wardlaw, did you want to make a motion? I think my motion is still on the floor. Yes, sir. Thank you. All right. We have a
motion to review, to approve the report from Representative Wardlaw. Second? Second. We have a second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. All those opposed? No. The ayes have it. All right, members, that takes us down to administrative rules. Representative Shepard.
Representative Matthew J. Shepherd
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29:00
the administrative rules subcommittee met on june 19th the subcommittee received agency updates on outstanding rulemaking from the 2023 regular session and all rules were reviewed and approved as noted in the report and i move adoption of the report thank you
representative shepard members any questions all right we have a motion and a second second all those in favor say aye All those opposed, the motion is adopted.
It takes us down to item three, Senator Dunn, just a second, announcement. All right. Representative,
Chair
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29:40
or Senator Irvin, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Game
Senator Missy Irvin
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29:45
and Fish Oversight Committee will meet in July. We don't have a date yet, but if you're on the Game and Fish Oversight Committee, we will be meeting in July. Thank you.
Senator Dotson, you're recognized for the claims review report.
Senator Jim Dotson
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30:02
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The claims review litigation reports oversight subcommittee met on Monday, June 16, 2025. The subcommittee adopted its subcommittee rules. The subcommittee reviewed 11 litigation reports and two litigation settlements. Regarding one litigation settlement from the Department of Finance and Administration, the subcommittee voted to not review and to recommend that the department settle the Related litigation for one dollar or less. I move adoption of the report
Members you've heard the report are there any questions? All right, seeing now we have a motion in the second second all those in favor say aye Opposed and the ayes have it. It's adopted takes us down to number seven hospital Medicaid and developmental disability study I believe that's
Representative David Whitaker
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30:51
representative Whitaker. You're recognized Thank you, mr. Chair the hospital Medicaid and developmental disability study subcommittee met on Monday to adopt the timelines for the studies mandated by act 145 of 2025 and act 1004 of 2025
additionally the subcommittee committee heard updates from dhs concerning the division of shared services and reimbursement rates under the living choices assisted living waiver i move adoption of the report all right members any questions all right senior
we have a motion in the second all those in favor say aye opposed the ayes have it all right that takes us
down to the occupational licensing review representative meets you're recognized thank you mr. chairman the occupational
Representative Stephen Meeks
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31:36
licensing review subcommittee met yesterday to approve the subcommittee rules discuss the entities that we will be reviewing in this session and to approve our tentative timeline and with that I move adoption of the report all All right, thank you. Any questions,
members? Seeing none, we have a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? The ayes have it. Carries. Takes us down to number 12, review, Representative Kavanaugh.
Representative Frances Cavenaugh
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32:07
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The review subcommittee met on Tuesday, June the 17th, and reviewed the proposed purchase of the property for DTSS, Division of Information Systems, method of finance, discretionary grants, and service contracts. All items were reviewed with the following exceptions. In out-of-state contracts, contract number 7, page 15, Department of Correction with WellPath, and contract number 10, page 16, Department of Education with Mindset Labs,
were both held until the next regular meeting of the ALC review in August. In in-state contracts, contract 80, 81, and 82, pages 72 and 73 for DHS, Division of Medical Services with Arkansas Foundation for Medical Care, were all held awaiting information from DHS, and DHS provided the following information yesterday afternoon. I move adoption of the report.
Chair
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33:09
Thank you, Representative Painter. You're recognized. Thank you. And I want to thank the agencies that provided the information for
Representative Stetson Painter
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33:16
me on those contracts. I just hope next time that it's provided an appropriate time and not late in the evening to digest three days' worth of work into a few hours. So hopefully next time we move forward that if we're going to do that, it's done an appropriate time for members to have their appropriate time to address that information. Thank you. Thank you, Representative.
Senator Fredrick J. Love
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33:40
Senator Love, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair. i want to ask a question of of senator representative kavanaugh through the chair all right go ahead representative kavanaugh with any of the holding of those contracts were there anything that's going to uh kind of prevent agencies from doing any of the work that they have no okay not that
Speaker 148
34:01
i'm aware of okay all right thank you thank you mr chair thank you senator senator davis
Senator Breanne Davis
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34:08
thank you mr chair i would like to make a substitute motion to adopt the report
including the following items that were held in state contracts 80 81 and 82 and in state contract 10 um which is ade with yeah ade with mindset labs all right so that's the well path and
the mindset labs both no what's the first one
all right members we do have the substitute motion uh representative baity you
Representative Howard M. Beaty, Jr.
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34:56
recognized could you restate that substitute motion for us
please yeah senator Davis if you light up I'll let
Senator Breanne Davis
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35:04
you restate your motion you recognize sure thank you I'd like to make a substitute motion to adopt the report including the following items that were held in state contracts 80 81 and 82 and in-state contract 10 which is ADE with Mindset Labs thank you
Representative Howard M. Beaty, Jr.
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35:22
senator representative so are you requesting that we hold those contracts or we accept that report with those contracts approved yes
Senator Breanne Davis
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35:31
that we accept the report with those contracts approved thank you or reviewed yes
senator thank you for that clarification so members we have a substitute motion of a second there's a second any discussion all right seeing none all those in favor signify I was saying aye opposed really eyes have it
all right members that takes us down to number 13
Representative Rick Beck
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36:13
state insurance programs we have Representative Beck, I believe. You're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair. The State Insurance Program Oversight Committee met Wednesday, June 18th. The subcommittee reviewed and approved the EBRX for UAMS contract amendment. The subcommittee heard presentations on the state captive insurance program from representatives of
Stephen Inks, Willis Tower, Watson, and Pierre Knight. The subcommittee reviewed and approved the state captive insurance program resolution of establishment. The subcommittee approved the deductible rates and budget for the fiscal year 2026 for the state captive insurance program. I move for adoption of this report. Alright, members, any questions? Alright, seeing
none, we have a motion is second the second all those in favor signify by saying aye opposed the ayes have it number 14
universal uniform personnel classification and compensation plan representative warren you're recognized thank
Representative Les Warren
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37:13
you mr chairman personnel subcommittee met on june 18th the subcommittee reviewed
and or approved items listed in the report subcommittee heard a presentation from the office of personnel management and ebd and took questions on item 18 regarding the referred contract as attached between the Employee Benefits Division and Aptus Financial. The contract will
provide services to state employees to help navigate the public service loan forgiveness program. The committee has recommended review of the contract to ALC. I will take any questions and move adoption of the report at the proper time. Thank you, President. We have a couple of questions. Looks like Representative Kavanaugh, you're recognized.
I Actually have a substitute motion Okay, let's hear the substitute motion I would
Representative Frances Cavenaugh
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38:09
like to make a substitute motion to adopt the report with the exception of item number
18 the recommendation related to the DTSS our aptest contract to be pulled for separate Consideration and I would like
to request roll call in separation of the chambers all right that is a proper motion we have a question
representative pilkington well just more discussion on the motion okay um but i
Representative Aaron Pilkington
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38:39
don't know if this is the proper time or not
Speaker 175
38:44
go ahead okay um i know that we've talked about this contract for a while it's been in the news It was approved
Representative Aaron Pilkington
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38:55
by the committee, and I just think that this is a program that we offer to many people, state employees, including those in BLR who have student debt. And it's one of the things, because of the courts, because of the change in the administration, it's been an extremely strenuous process. I myself have personally paid consultants to help me with my student loans to navigate the PSLF process.
I've literally been put in forbearance twice after trying to pay my loans back, and so it's been a hard process. And so I think as one of the only members in this chamber who actually has student loans, who is on PSLF, I know how terrible this process is and why a consultant is needed. And so that's why I think we should adopt this, because I do think it's a perk of working for state government, which is a low-paying profession, And it's a way to keep and retain members.
And so just being someone, I wanted to share that experience with ALC about how terrible it is to go through this process and why I think allowing people to take advantage of this very popular program that was started during the Bush administration is a good use of resources. So with that, I just wanted to add that to the discussion. I think we should not vote for the substitute motion and that we should go ahead and approve this report as it was approved by its committee. Thank you. Senator Love.
Senator Fredrick J. Love
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40:43
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will tell you that something's going on because me and representative Pilkington
Senator Fredrick J. Love
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40:55
as a beneficiary of PSLF I will tell you all I did get my student loans forgiven and this was a very very strenuous process of going through month by month trying to figure out getting on the phone and I just so happened
to to receive it and I will tell you this contract is probably necessary no I'm not going to say it's probably necessary I know it's necessary because it's a very difficult process and you all right now our our state employees are struggling I have state employees in my district that they call me from time to time they are struggling for them to receive a little bit of forgiveness will go a long way that'll go a long way in our economy because the money that they can save on
when they're paying their student loans they put it right back into the economy and it is needed at this time and so I would just ask for you all to get on the same page with being representative Pilkington and let's go ahead and pass this out
Representative Frances Cavenaugh
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42:15
thank you representative Kavanaugh you recognize I will say I appreciate all the state employees and all the hard work that they do but I want to remind this chamber we just gave 140 million dollar raise to state employees
I voted for that because I believe they're worth and I believe that we're getting them to a market value, but I also know that if they want a consultant to help them figure out a federal program, and I've been told that this is going to cost $66 a person or something, I have no problem with them paying that $66, just like Representative Pilkington did, just like
Senator Love did. But for us to pay it
out of tax dollars I think is a unwise motion. It's an unwise use of tax dollars. At some point in this state we have to stop spending like we have an unlimited amount of money. We do not. And we have to use our money wisely. If
they want to do a payroll deduct, I'm 100% for that and I hope they get the benefit they deserve, but I just
voted along with almost every member in this chamber to give them $140 million raise because we were told it was for retention and recruitment. The same thing we're told this is for. This has been to us two times prior, two times prior it's been voted down, but now we're going to bring it up again and it came out of personnel who did not have members in the seats at the time it came out. My constituents back home would never forgive me if I voted for this
Senator Missy Irvin
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44:13
and that's why I made the motion. Thank you, Representative. Senator Irvin. Thank you. Sorry, I just have some questions. I was not at the personnel subcommittee and And I mean, for the benefit of the membership, I'm confused as to, I'm
confused. So if I just need some clarity, perhaps, and some questions answered, if that's allowed.
Senator, we're in discussion on the motion, so I don't know that we can bring
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
44:55
it back to the table to ask questions on this. Okay, understood. So I guess in my discussion on the motion, here are my questions. I'll just put them out for discussion. I'm curious as to why we're hiring a consultant for a federal program that's hard to navigate. Why is that our problem? The federal government needs to fix their program to make it easy to navigate. I don't understand why the taxpayers of the state of Arkansas are having to pay to fix somebody else's problem.
Federal government needs to step up and fix their problem. If it's hard to navigate, I can tell you that my constituents and my own children found it very hard to navigate the Arkansas Department of Higher Education website and the loans and the grants. And one of my sons didn't get one of them just because it was hard to navigate. So I'm thinking about my constituents that don't have the benefit of a consultant to even navigate our own grants and loans within the Department of Higher Education in the state of Arkansas.
Our website was a disaster. We worked to try to fix that. But it's still difficult. So I guess I just have a lot of questions as to understanding the spend or the necessary, the necessity of the spend and why the state of Arkansas has to fix the federal government's problems if they can't fix their own problem. And so somebody could answer that question for me in discussion on the motion.
Senator Jonathan Dismang
Unverified
46:28
I would be grateful. Thank you, Senator. Senator Dismay. This is clarification and also if it's not the case, but the way that I heard the substitute motion that the vote would be by division and that was on
the substitute motion, if that is not the case, I would still ask that it would be vote by
division on the actual substitute motion. So Senator Dismayor, are you making a substitute motion or if you're asking for it to be by division of chamber, we need to see three hands?
Senator Jonathan Dismang
Unverified
47:03
yeah i just want to make sure i understand what you're asking for i'm not asking for a substitute motion
i believe the motion is as it was originally made and you play the tape was that it would be a motion with a vote by division and if that was the motion that's well and good if not then i would call for the motion the substitute motion to be voted on by division and I believe it was originally stated.
- All right, thank you. I'm gonna go back to Representative Kavanaugh
to clarify that for the body. Representative Kavanaugh. -
Representative Frances Cavenaugh
Unverified
47:38
My motion was for a separation of the chambers for the vote on contract number 18, not on the motion. - All right, give
me just a second. All right, Senator Dismang, looking at the motion by Representative Kavanaugh, she's
asking to pull that particular contract out for separate consideration, splitting the and roll call that's her motion yeah if you have something different in mind that's entirely up to you you're right
no one appropriate I'll ask for a vote by division on the substitute motion got it senator Davis you recognize thank you
Senator Breanne Davis
Unverified
48:46
Mr. Chair. I just wanted to provide a little bit of clarity. We had a lot
of debate and discussion and committee on this contract, and I know it was debated last month as well. But one thing I do want to say is, first of all, we earn $400,000 a month on interest alone, and so this contract in a year could be paid for in less than a month. This is something that is a value add to state employees who have been doing some type of charity, non-profit work, or public service state government work for 10 years. So you have to have been in this space for 10 years and have to have
made 120 consecutive payments towards your student loans to even qualify for this program. There's like an 80% denial rate. So it is very challenging and the federal government has made it very hard over the last 20 years or however long this program has existed. So, you know, we talk a lot in personnel and in here about how to recruit, retain, attract people to state government when we can't always compete with the private sector. And one of the things that our committee
has talked about over the years is looking for ways to add value to these jobs. And I think this is a great way to do so. You can help, you know, these employees navigate a very complicated federal process get through it and make a huge difference in their lives because I mean some of these people are getting back tens of thousands of dollars because they overpaid and didn't know. So this is a great value add in my opinion for state employees that have been in some type of non-profit public service work for at least 10 years and are working hard to pay off their student loans
and I'd say that the cost is minimal and this is something we should certainly move
Senator Fredrick J. Love
Unverified
50:51
forward with. You're up. Senator Love, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just wanted just a procedural question. So to the vote for the division of the houses, do you need three hands for that?
Okay. because i guess when once uh representative kavanaugh made her motion i guess it was it was multiple motions rolled into one and so i was just it just procedurally yeah i think her motion is to she had a substitute motion to
adopt the report with the exception of the item that we're discussing and that was the aptest contract she wanted to pull
it out for separate consideration okay that separate consideration is where she wants to split the chamber and do a roll call vote if i have that right thank you all right so then i guess
Senator Fredrick J. Love
Unverified
51:33
then will we take up the three hand yes okay all right
Representative Frances Cavenaugh
Unverified
51:37
i'm just trying to get the procedure yeah you and me both thank you thank you mr chair representative kavanaugh you're
recognized um i just want to clarify again this is not a dig at state employees this is a representation of my district and the use of tax dollars any state employee could sign up for deductions i'm fine with that 66 dollars to save ten thousand dollars
i don't know any state employee that wouldn't be willing
to do so and again i'm going to say it's because we just gave 140 million dollar raise to state employees you know what we did not do when we gave that 140 million dollar raise we did not change any of their benefits their retirement is still the same health care is the same do you know who is on the hook for the pension if it goes bad on this 140 million dollars it's your constituents it's the state of arkansas
so that unfunded liability sitting out there in our pension plan comes down to tax dollars if something were to happen we have a very rich pay plan now for state employees we have a very generous pension plan for state employees we have a lot of tools for recruitment that some employers in the state of arkansas don't have and when i can tell my constituents in my district that i'm going to hire a consultant to help you figure out
a program then i'll vote for this thank you thank you
Chair
Unverified
53:21
representative senator payton you're recognized thank you mr
Senator John Payton
Unverified
53:25
chair well it's pretty interesting to discuss the uh the contract or the topic the motion is whether or not we're going to afford our colleagues who want to vote against this contract the opportunity to vote against this contract without voting against everything in the report so i appreciate representative kavanaugh's motion that we separate the report that's controversial from all those that are not
so that we can afford our colleagues who want to vote against it the opportunity to do so without voting against the entire package so i so ask
Representative James Eaton
Unverified
54:05
you to vote yes on representative kavanaugh's motion thank you senator representative kavanaugh you're back okay okay members that that
is the motion the motion was to substitute motion was to adopt the report with the exception of item 18
that was the uh aptest contract to be pulled out for separate consideration that is the motion
all right we have that substitute motion you have a second second you have a second all those in in favor
Speaker 163
54:36
signify by saying aye opposed the ayes have it
all right members now we're going to take up the review of item number 18 which is the Aptis contract
All right, members, regarding the Aptis contract, at this point, we'll need a motion to review. We have Representative Kavanaugh. Motion. All right, members, I'm advised, before we take a motion on this individual item, is there any discussion or questions on this item? That that's up to her
There you go All right representative cabin
Representative Frances Cavenaugh
Unverified
55:46
are you recognized I would like to make a motion that we review This contract and I would like to have a separation of the chambers on the vote roll call and separation So
you want to review the contract you want to split the chamber and you want it roll call you need three hands to do
all those things all right we have three hands give me just a second
Speaker 163
56:30
members are going to proceed with the roll call starting with the yes
Chair
Unverified
56:45
sir we got centered hammer you're recognized for
Senator Kim Hammer
Unverified
56:47
discussion thank you I just want clarification based on the motion that was made and make sure my interpretation is correct based on the way the motion was made if we vote yes the contract is going to be reviewed is that correct that's correct sir
Representative Aaron Pilkington
Unverified
57:00
thank you representative Pilkington you're recognized for discussion thank you I can appreciate people wanting to vote on this contract separately but one of the things too I just would like us to think in mind you know can anyone tell me the difference between IDR and IBR in the student loan forgiveness program can you tell me about what the save plan is as part of the program does anyone know that? I do because I've gone through this process because I've hired a, I spent $500 of my own money to hire a consultant to do this. Uh, you know, I think I heard earlier that it was
about 30,000 state employees that would be on this program. So, I mean, uh, take that if they all had to pay $500, that's $15 million, I think. I mean, or maybe my math's off, but it's a lot of money and I think this is a really good deal for what we're trying to do. But the point I want to make is it's a complicated system. I requested to start paying my loans back and get out of forbearance. Then I was put back in forbearance because the courts changed something about it. And then once that happened again and again, you know, what's really funny is I agree with
Representative Erwin's point. This is a federal government's mess. It's terrible. We're trying to help out our own people here. I can't help it that a federal judge is going to put an injunction and then stop this and then put people back in forbearance and not in forbearance. I can't do anything about it. We can't do anything about it. Our Congress can't do anything about it. We need the courts to go and do that process. But having people telling, having these consultants to tell people, hey, you know, there's a PSLF buyback program. How many of you are aware of the buyback program? I don't think many of you are. But having a consultant to tell you, hey, you need to put money back for that so that you can get this when you hit the 120 payments. And then also to tell
you financially that, hey, maybe you don't need to work in the private sector or work in the public sector. Maybe you're going to get enough money that you actually should get out of PSLF and take this job in the public or in the private sector because it's going to pay you more but you have to make a certain amount to actually make that worth its while so I just think all those things are in consideration that you know for someone who's lived it and been a part of it and who has colleagues who are part about it people in my district who are state employees you know they have they're going to benefit from this program and so for my constituents it's important that this gets that this gets approved and so I think my people back home want me to do this they
want me to help out and they want also the best talent to be working for the state of Arkansas that they possibly can, and so when you've got someone who leaves higher ed with a large amount of student debt, and we're not able to recruit them because Arkansas is saying that we've got to keep this budget tight, this is a tool to help them say, well, if I can get my student loans forgiven, I'll come, I'll work here for 10 years for the state government, and then I'll do it, so I just think, you know, it's easy to sit back and say this and that, but I think unless you really know some of the complex, intricate parts of this program, which I do not think a lot of us do know, that's why
it's good to have this consultant and that's why I think this contract is a really good deal at as low as it is because if we just had every state employee go and spend this money I think it'd be a lot higher cost of the state as a whole so with that I appreciate us reviewing this contract and letting it
Speaker 214
1:00:06
proceed. Thank you Representative. Representative Gene you're recognized. Thank
Representative Lane Jean
Unverified
1:00:09
you Mr. Chairman. I was I'm a member of personnel and I was in here on the discussion. And from what the best guess estimate that shared services gave us was maybe 3,000
state employees. And also the testimony is that your people at the universities throughout the state that are state employees, they're not eligible for this. This is just the 20-something thousand that are under the executive branch umbrella. So this does not include universities. The other thing, the reason I'm voting against it is, yes, it's just $300,000. But if you've noticed our revenue since we had record numbers of surplus from $1 billion to $800 to $600,
now it looks like we're down to $200. The last three years, our revenue has declined. And everybody still wants to continue state income tax cuts next year. And if that's your goal, adding $300,000 to a contract that helps employees, and I'm all for helping employees. I voted for the $140 million that kicks in July 1 for state employees. I believe it's their responsibility to take care of their debt and the state not to do it.
Granted, it's $300,000, but we need to start honing in on our expenses if our goal is to dwindle down the state income tax. And, friends, I voted for a lot of what we did because we needed it, but we've got to stop the spending. So I'm a no vote on this. Thank you. Senator Disman, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr.
Senator Jonathan Dismang
Unverified
1:01:52
Chairman. One thing, like I said, I do appreciate kind of having a better understanding of what this would cost an employee if they were to go out and try to do on their own. I believe Representative Pilkington had mentioned $500 versus the $66.
But I do want to have a conversation about this $140 million that we've now brought up multiple times. We are asking our agencies and those employees to work smarter, faster, and more efficient than they've ever worked before. And in fact, that $140 million wasn't in our RSA. That's because we're asking them to absorb those increases in their own agency budgets, which they are doing.
they should be commended for. Yes, there are raises coming, but those raises are coming predominantly out of the budgets that they have in place right now with the dollars that they have right now. How do you do that? By being faster, smarter, and more efficient. Now employee morale matters. If you are an employer and you've got employees, we go out and we try to figure out ways to increase employee morale. That's the real world. That is, you know, outside of state
government. Every one of us try to do that as employers. This is a tool to be able to help say, look, we care. This is a way that we can help. This is an efficient way for us to help. Again, while we're asking them to be faster, smarter, and more efficient. $66. Again, I ask for a favorable vote, and again, I hope that we're able to go back, and when we keep talking about the $140 million increase, that we will also acknowledge how well they are absorbing and handling that increase on their own, and they should be commended for that.
Chair
Unverified
1:03:57
Thank you, Senator. Senator Davis, you're
Senator Breanne Davis
Unverified
1:04:00
recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to just clarify a point that I believe Representative Beatty, a question he asked or said in committee, we are not using tax dollars for this contract. This contract is being paid out of a cash fund that state employees pay into. It is not tax dollars. So when I said earlier that we earn about $400,000 a month on interest on that fund, it's not tax dollar funds.
It's a cash fund that state employees are paying into. This contract can be paid for in less than a month using the interest alone on a cash fund state employees pay into, not tax dollars. I think that's an important distinction that we all need to understand, and this is to be a benefit for state employees paid for by themselves into the fund that they put money in. Thank you. Thank you, Senator.
Representative Howard M. Beaty, Jr.
Unverified
1:05:01
Representative Beatty, you're recognized. That was exactly, thank you, Mr. Chair, exactly the point that I was about to make. Again, I agree with my colleagues on the House side, Representative Jean and Representative Kavanaugh, on the points they made. They're very valid points and points that this body on both sides should consider. But the fact that the earnings from the EBD cash fund paid for by state employees would be providing this benefit and not straight tax dollars that would have to contribute to that.
And that's why I'll be supporting this and moving forward. I encourage my colleagues to do the
Chair
Unverified
1:05:39
same. Thank you. Thank you, Representative Beatty. We have two more in the
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
1:05:44
queue. Representative Beck, you're recognized. Thank you,
Mr. Chair. And possibly somebody, it's a question, but possibly somebody can, what percentage of employees would benefit from this? You know, currently the roles that we have now, What percentage, is it 20% or what percent of our employees would actually benefit from this program?
If someone could answer that, I'd
appreciate it. I believe Representative Gene touched on that. Representative Gene,
Speaker 214
1:06:12
you recognize? Yes. In testimony in committee, Mr. Wallace came down. Out of the 23,000
Representative Lane Jean
Unverified
1:06:17
that are eligible for it, the best guess estimate, and we tried to get them on a number, but they guessed about 3 000 employees would be eligible and that was their best guess thank you representative gene representative kavanaugh thank
Representative Frances Cavenaugh
Unverified
1:06:35
you i also understand in that
cash balance and ebd is the employer part that's paid by who the state who is that paid for tax dollars so everything that the state does goes back to tax dollars the interest that we're talking about and I've tried many times to find a way to use interest for programs I'm always told we can't use interest for programs because it's already tied paying something else for somebody else why are we got that interest on that program because
we got tax dollars that went
into funds that's collecting that interest that money is only generated because of tax dollars state of arkansas makes no product we make no revenue what we do is we tax we fine and we
penalize and that's how we get our money thank you senator hammer you recognize thank you i want to
Senator Kim Hammer
Unverified
1:07:36
tag on what senator davis said but i also want to bring in something different if we're talking about 3000 which is an estimated number for the money that's going to be returned
to them that is going to be a direct impact to the state's revenue I think as far as additional money that now will not be paid out of the state but will be used in the state in those families where that where they put into the retirement accounts or whether they go out and buy groceries whatever they do that's money is going to generate back into the state so I think of this more as a return on investment than an expenditure out and I think we need to factor that into our decision-making process also. I'll be voting for it. Thank you. Thank
you, Senator. And last one, Senator Davis, you're recognized. Thank
Senator Breanne Davis
Unverified
1:08:22
you, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to clarify. We've had a lot of numbers thrown around in personnel the other day. It's approximately 30% of state employees, not 3,000. We have around 24,000 state employees, so it's 30% of that, which is significantly higher than the 3,000. I just wanted to clarify just because there's been 7,200 around 7,200 employees and are using this thank you
Chair
Unverified
1:08:48
thank you senator all right Marty let's call the roll starting with the house
Speaker 221
1:08:54
represent painter represent painters and no represented per year represent per years and no represent rose represent roses and no representative Hawk is a a no. Representative Beatty. Yes. Representative Beatty is a yes. Speaker Evans. No. Speaker Evans is a no. Representative Collins. Yes. Representative Collins is a yes. Representative Garner. Representative Garner. Representative Crawford. No. Representative Crawford is a
represent Warren, represent Warren, represent Hallowell, represent Hallowell is a no, represent Gassaway, represent Gassaway is a no, represent Cavanaugh, represent Cavanaugh is a no, represent McCollum, represent McCollum, having not signed in, represent Underwood as his first alternate, - No. - Represent Underwood is a no.
Representative Allen. Represent Allen is a yes. Represent Vaught. First alternate, Representative Henley. - No. - Represent Henley is a no. Represent Ferguson. - Yes. - Represent Ferguson is a yes. Represent Beck. - No. - Represent Beck is a no. Represent Gonzales. - No. - Represent Gonzales is a no. Represent Tosh. - No. - Represent Tosh is a no. Represent Bentley. Going to first alternate, represent Brown, Matthew Brown.
Going to second alternate, represent Wooten. Represent Lundstrom. Represent Lundstrom. Represent McNair. First alternate, represent Joey Carr. Going to second alternate, Representative Joey Carr is a no.
Hold on. Second alternate, Representative Lynch is a no. Representative Whitaker? Yes. Representative Whitaker is a yes. Representative Cozart? No. Representative Cozart is a no. Representative Eubanks? Yes. Representative Eubanks is a yes. - Representative Wardlaw? - No. - Representative Wardlaw. Representative Shepard? - Yes. - Representative Shepard is a yes. Representative Jean? - No. - Representative Jean is a no. Representative Meeks? - No. - Representative Meeks is a no.
Representative Ladyman? - No. - Representative Ladyman is a
no. all right members the motions failed the item is not reviewed
Senator Bart Hester
Unverified
1:12:16
senator hester you're recognized just uh for the record the senate would have easily passed
Chair
Unverified
1:12:29
this our state employees Senator Tucker Senator Tucker you recognize Senator Love you're recognized thank
Senator Fredrick J. Love
Unverified
1:12:48
you mr. chair so with that with this item not
being reviewed is it gonna be referred can we refer
it back to the committee I mean like or is this just a dead issue
senator love the the agency would have to bring that
Senator Fredrick J. Love
Unverified
1:13:03
back up okay well i would suggest that the agency bring it back up because this is an important
Representative Les Warren
Unverified
1:13:11
matter thank you representative warren so motion to approve the report less item 18. Yes, that's already been taken care of.
Thank you. Okay. All right, members, that takes us down to item H. These are review of communications. First item is the Arkansas Public Employees Retirement System. These are all in your packet, and they're also online. And so on item H1, we'll need a motion to file as reviewed. We have a motion. Second, all those in favor? Aye. Opposed? The ayes have it.
That takes us down to H2. Same situation, Arkansas Teacher Retirement System. We get a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? The ayes have it. H4, members, is Department of Commerce, Arkansas Economic Development Commission. We need a motion to approve. Motion. Motion, second. Second. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. And all those opposed? The ayes have it. members that takes us on to the next page item 8b this is division of state parks request for
approval of special maintenance we need a motion to approve the motion a second in the second all those in favor say aye opposed the ayes have it item 10b division of information systems it's also in your packet we need a motion to file as reviewed we have a motion motion second all those have ever say aye opposed the ayes have it all right members that takes us down to j1 it's an interim study proposal
requesting alc to conduct a study of broad-based categorical eligibility waiver of supplemental nutrition assistance program so we need a motion to refer this to the alc hospital medicaid and Developmental Disability Studies subgroup. We have a motion, second. All those in favor, say aye. - Aye. - All those opposed, the ayes have it. We have an interim study by Representative RJ Hawk. All right,
members, I need a motion to refer
the lottery and video lottery to the ALC Lottery Oversight Committee. We have a motion, second. Second,
all those in favor, say aye. - Aye.
- Opposed, the ayes have it. Members, thank you for your participation today. Hope you have a great weekend. We are adjourned.
Agenda
A. Call to Order.
B. Roll Call.
C. Approval of the Minutes of the Last Meeting, May 22, 2025.
D. Presentation of the May 2025 Revenue Report – Dr. Carlos Silva, Legislative Economist
E. Report of the Executive Subcommittee — Sen. Ben Gilmore, Rep. Les D. Eaves, Co-Chairs.
F. Reports of Standing Subcommittees:
G. Reports of Interim or Special Committees: (none)
H. Review of Communications:
I. New Business: (None)
J. New Interim Study Proposals and Interim Resolutions:
K. Business Carried Over: (none)
L. Adjournment.
Documents
Speakers
Representative Les D. Eaves Chair
Unverified
Speaker 4
Representative Les Warren
Unverified
Senator Jonathan Dismang
Unverified
Representative Lane Jean
Unverified
Speaker 37
Speaker 39
Chair
Unverified
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
Representative Johnny Rye
Unverified
Representative John P. Carr
Unverified
Senator Ben Gilmore
Unverified
Senator Matt McKee
Unverified
Representative Jeff Wardlaw
Unverified
Senator Clarke Tucker
Unverified
Speaker 86
Speaker 95
Speaker 98
Speaker 18
Speaker 104
Speaker 109
Speaker 113
Representative Andrew Collins
Unverified
Representative James Eaton
Unverified
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
Representative Matthew J. Shepherd
Unverified
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
Representative David Whitaker
Unverified
Representative Frances Cavenaugh
Unverified
Representative Stetson Painter
Unverified
Senator Fredrick J. Love
Unverified
Speaker 148
Senator Breanne Davis
Unverified
Representative Howard M. Beaty, Jr.
Unverified
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
Representative Aaron Pilkington
Unverified
Speaker 175
Speaker 181
Senator John Payton
Unverified
Speaker 163
Senator Kim Hammer
Unverified
Speaker 214
Speaker 221
Senator Bart Hester
Unverified