Education Committee- House
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Transcript
1 document
Bills discussed (47)
| Bill | Title | Sponsor | Status |
|---|---|---|---|
|
HB1903
Act 911
· 5 mentions in chapter, transcript
Matched: “HB1903 Walker TO AMEND PROVISIONS OF THE ARKANSAS CODE TO PROVIDE…”
|
TO AMEND PROVISIONS OF THE ARKANSAS CODE TO PROVIDE SCHOOL DISTRICTS WITH FLEXIBILITY REGARDING ALTERNATIVE … | Walker | Notification that HB1903 is now Act 911 |
|
HB1825
· 4 mentions in chapter, agenda, transcript
Matched: “HB1825 Wooldridge TO ALLOW A PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOL TO REQUIRE AN ENRO…”
|
TO ALLOW A PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOL TO REQUIRE AN ENROLLED STUDENT TO EARN ONE UNIT … | Wooldridge | Recommended for study in the Interim by the … |
|
HB1020
· 2 mentions in agenda, chapter
Matched: “…SCHOOL IN ORDER TO BE ELIGIBLE TO ENROLL IN A HOME SCHOOL. HB1020 A. Collins TO REPEAL THE ARKANSAS CHILDREN'S EDUCATIONAL FR…”
|
TO REPEAL THE ARKANSAS CHILDREN'S EDUCATIONAL FREEDOM ACCOUNT PROGRAM; TO CREATE A NEW EDUCATION FUNDING … | A. Collins | Died in House Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
HB1023
· 2 mentions in agenda, chapter
Matched: “…PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND OPEN-ENROLLMENT PUBLIC CHARTER SCHOOLS. HB1023 A. Collins TO AMEND THE STATE TEACHER EDUCATION PROGRAM; AN…”
|
TO AMEND THE STATE TEACHER EDUCATION PROGRAM; AND TO AMEND THE ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS FOR LOAN … | A. Collins | Died in House Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
HB1025
· 2 mentions in agenda, chapter
Matched: “…EPAYMENT AMOUNTS UNDER THE STATE TEACHER EDUCATION PROGRAM. HB1025 McGruder TO CREATE THE TEACHER FAIR DISMISSAL ACT OF 2025.…”
|
TO CREATE THE TEACHER FAIR DISMISSAL ACT OF 2025. | McGruder | Died in House Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
HB1027
· 2 mentions in agenda, chapter
Matched: “…LIC CHARTER SCHOOLS. DEFERRED BILLS Number Sponsor Subtitle HB1027 D. Garner TO CREATE THE BRIGHTER START ACT OF 2025; AND TO…”
|
TO CREATE THE BRIGHTER START ACT OF 2025; AND TO REQUIRE THE TREASURER OF STATE … | D. Garner | Died in House Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
HB1030
· 2 mentions in chapter, agenda
Matched: “HB1030 T. Shephard TO REQUIRE A SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICER OR LAW ENF…”
|
TO REQUIRE A SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICER OR LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSONNEL TO OBTAIN CERTIFICATION IN YOUTH … | T. Shephard | Died in House Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
HB1031
· 2 mentions in agenda, chapter
Matched: “…OUNSELOR TO RECEIVE YOUTH MENTAL HEALTH FIRST AID TRAINING. HB1031 D. Garner TO CREATE THE ARKANSAS HEALTHY LIFESTYLE EDUCATIO…”
|
TO CREATE THE ARKANSAS HEALTHY LIFESTYLE EDUCATION ACT OF 2025; AND TO ENSURE THE HEALTH … | D. Garner | Died in House Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
HB1081
· 2 mentions in agenda, chapter
Matched: “…Irvin TO AMEND THE ARKANSAS FINANCIAL EDUCATION COMMISSION. HB1081 B. McKenzie TO REPEAL ADDITIONAL FUNDING FOR THE DEVELOPMEN…”
|
TO REPEAL ADDITIONAL FUNDING FOR THE DEVELOPMENT AND ADMINISTRATION OF PROFESSIONAL LEARNING COMMUNITIES. | B. McKenzie | WITHDRAWN BY AUTHOR |
|
HB1139
· 2 mentions in chapter, agenda
Matched: “HB1139 B. McKenzie TO CREATE THE RELEASED TIME EDUCATION ACT.”
|
TO CREATE THE RELEASED TIME EDUCATION ACT. | B. McKenzie | Died in House Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
HB1144
· 2 mentions in agenda, chapter
Matched: “…McGruder TO CREATE THE TEACHER FAIR DISMISSAL ACT OF 2025. HB1144 Wooten TO REQUIRE A PARTICIPATING SCHOOL UNDER THE ARKANSAS…”
|
TO REQUIRE A PARTICIPATING SCHOOL UNDER THE ARKANSAS CHILDREN'S EDUCATIONAL FREEDOM ACCOUNT PROGRAM TO COMPLY … | Wooten | Died in House Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
HB1197
· 2 mentions in chapter, agenda
Matched: “HB1197 S. Meeks TO PROHIBIT SCHEDULING, HOSTING, OR REQUIRING AN O…”
|
TO PROHIBIT SCHEDULING, HOSTING, OR REQUIRING AN OUTDOOR PRACTICE, SCRIMMAGE, GAME, OR ACTIVITY FOR AN … | S. Meeks | Died in House Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
HB1239
· 2 mentions in agenda, chapter
Matched: “…IC SCHOOLS ADDRESSES CERTAIN HEALTH ISSUES FACING STUDENTS. HB1239 A. Collins TO AMEND THE PUBLIC SCHOOL FUNDING ACT OF 2003;…”
|
TO AMEND THE PUBLIC SCHOOL FUNDING ACT OF 2003; AND TO ADD AN ADDITIONAL CATEGORY … | A. Collins | Died in House Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
HB1482
· 2 mentions in chapter, agenda
Matched: “HB1482 Gramlich TO CREATE AN EXCEPTION TO THE SCHOOL ATTENDANCE RE…”
|
TO CREATE AN EXCEPTION TO THE SCHOOL ATTENDANCE REQUIREMENTS FOR A STUDENT WHO TAKES A … | Gramlich | Died in House Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
HB1490
· 2 mentions in agenda, chapter
Matched: “…TIONAL EDUCATION CATEGORY OF FUNDING FOR SPECIAL EDUCATION. HB1490 Wardlaw TO REPEAL THE REQUIREMENT THAT A PUBLIC SCHOOL STUD…”
|
TO REPEAL THE REQUIREMENT THAT A PUBLIC SCHOOL STUDENT RETURN TEMPORARILY ISSUED ITEMS, RESOURCES, MATERIALS, … | Wardlaw | Died in House Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
HB1492
· 2 mentions in chapter, agenda
Matched: “HB1492 Gramlich TO REQUIRE EACH PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT AND OPEN-EN…”
|
TO REQUIRE EACH PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT AND OPEN-ENROLLMENT PUBLIC CHARTER SCHOOL TO IMPLEMENT A MOBILE … | Gramlich | Recommended for study in the Interim by the … |
|
HB1528
· 2 mentions in chapter, agenda
Matched: “HB1528 McGruder TO REQUIRE A REPORT CARD TO INCLUDE A STUDENT'S CU…”
|
TO REQUIRE A REPORT CARD TO INCLUDE A STUDENT'S CURRENT READING GRADE LEVEL. | McGruder | Died in House Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
HB1539
· 2 mentions in chapter, agenda
Matched: “HB1539 A. Collins TO AMEND THE PUBLIC SCHOOL FUNDING ACT OF 2003;…”
|
TO AMEND THE PUBLIC SCHOOL FUNDING ACT OF 2003; AND TO ADD AN ADDITIONAL EDUCATION … | A. Collins | Died in House Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
HB1541
· 2 mentions in agenda, chapter
Matched: “…THE HOURS WHEN AN EXCESSIVE HEAT WARNING HAS BEEN DECLARED. HB1541 Wooten TO REQUIRE A PRIVATE SCHOOL THAT ACCEPTS STATE FUNDI…”
|
TO REQUIRE A PRIVATE SCHOOL THAT ACCEPTS STATE FUNDING OF ANY TYPE TO PROVIDE TRANSPORTATION … | Wooten | Died in House Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
HB1542
· 2 mentions in chapter, agenda
Matched: “HB1542 Wooten TO REQUIRE PRIVATE SCHOOLS TO ADMINISTER AN ANNUAL S…”
|
TO REQUIRE PRIVATE SCHOOLS TO ADMINISTER AN ANNUAL STATEWIDE STUDENT ASSESSMENT; AND TO REQUIRE PRIVATE … | Wooten | Died in House Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
HB1709
· 2 mentions in chapter, agenda
Matched: “HB1709 Steele TO AMEND THE HUMAN SERVICES WORKERS IN THE SCHOOLS P…”
|
TO AMEND THE HUMAN SERVICES WORKERS IN THE SCHOOLS PROGRAM; AND TO INCLUDE MENTAL HEALTH … | Steele | Died in House Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
HB1727
· 2 mentions in agenda, chapter
Matched: “…THE SCHOOLS PROGRAM. REGULAR AGENDA Number Sponsor Subtitle HB1727 L. Johnson TO AMEND THE FUNDING AVAILABLE TO ADULT EDUCATIO…”
|
TO AMEND THE FUNDING AVAILABLE TO ADULT EDUCATION CHARTER SCHOOLS. | L. Johnson | WITHDRAWN BY AUTHOR |
|
HB1755
· 2 mentions in chapter, agenda
Matched: “HB1755 T. Shephard TO REQUIRE EACH PUBLIC SCHOOL TO PARTICIPATE IN…”
|
TO REQUIRE EACH PUBLIC SCHOOL TO PARTICIPATE IN THE ARKANSAS PREVENTION NEEDS ASSESSMENT SURVEY. | T. Shephard | Died in House Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
HB1761
· 2 mentions in agenda, chapter
Matched: “…RENTS TO BRING THEIR INFANTS SIX MONTHS OR YOUNGER TO WORK. HB1761 D. Garner TO INCREASE FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY THROUGH THE EST…”
|
TO INCREASE FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY THROUGH THE ESTABLISHMENT OF INCOME LIMITS FOR STUDENTS ELIGIBLE FOR EDUCATIONAL … | D. Garner | Died in House Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
HB1924
· 2 mentions in chapter, agenda
Matched: “HB1924 Puryear TO REPEAL THE REQUIREMENT THAT THE STATE BOARD OF E…”
|
TO REPEAL THE REQUIREMENT THAT THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION ESTABLISH RULES REGARDING THE IMPLEMENTATION … | Puryear | Died in House Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
HB1933
Act 912
· 2 mentions in agenda, chapter
Matched: “…TH FLEXIBILITY REGARDING ALTERNATIVE LEARNING ENVIRONMENTS. HB1933 McCollum TO AMEND THE LAW CONCERNING A SCHOOL DISTRICT BOAR…”
|
TO AMEND THE LAW CONCERNING A SCHOOL DISTRICT BOARD OF DIRECTORS; AND TO CREATE A … | McCollum | Notification that HB1933 is now Act 912 |
|
HB1940
· 2 mentions in chapter, agenda
Matched: “HB1940 Walker TO ESTABLISH THE REQUIREMENTS FOR A PUBLIC SCHOOL DI…”
|
TO ESTABLISH THE REQUIREMENTS FOR A PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT THAT INITIATES AND MAINTAINS A FOUR-DAY … | Walker | Died in House Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
HB1962
· 2 mentions in agenda, chapter
Matched: “…ULES REGARDING THE IMPLEMENTATION OF FOUR-DAY SCHOOL WEEKS. HB1962 Vaught TO PROHIBIT A SCHOOL FROM SERVING OR SELLING ULTRA-P…”
|
TO PROHIBIT A SCHOOL FROM SERVING OR SELLING ULTRA-PROCESSED FOOD ON THE SCHOOL CAMPUS DURING … | Vaught | Recommended for study in the Interim by the … |
|
HB1977
· 2 mentions in chapter, agenda
Matched: “HB1977 Bentley TO CREATE THE PROTECTING CHILDHOOD INNOCENCE IN LIB…”
|
TO CREATE THE PROTECTING CHILDHOOD INNOCENCE IN LIBRARIES ACT. | Bentley | Died in House Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
HB1990
· 2 mentions in chapter, agenda
Matched: “HB1990 McAlindon TO AMEND THE LAW CONCERNING HIGHER EDUCATION.”
|
TO AMEND THE LAW CONCERNING HIGHER EDUCATION. | McAlindon | Recommended for study in the Interim by the … |
|
HB1999
· 2 mentions in agenda, chapter
Matched: “…TO STUDENTS. PENDING FISCAL IMPACT Number Sponsor Subtitle HB1999 D. Garner TO REQUIRE THE SECRETARY OF THE DEPARTMENT OF EDU…”
|
TO REQUIRE THE SECRETARY OF THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION TO PROVIDE INFORMATION REGARDING THE SUPPLEMENTAL … | D. Garner | Died in House Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
HB2000
· 2 mentions in agenda, chapter
Matched: “…PLEMENTAL NUTRITION ASSISTANCE PROGRAM TO CERTAIN STUDENTS. HB2000 Wardlaw TO AMEND THE LAW CONCERNING EDUCATION SERVICE COOPE…”
|
TO AMEND THE LAW CONCERNING EDUCATION SERVICE COOPERATIVES, PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICTS, AND OPEN-ENROLLMENT PUBLIC CHARTER … | Wardlaw | Died in House Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
SB183
Act 724
· 2 mentions in agenda, chapter
Matched: “…AMEND THE MECHANISM BY WHICH SCHOOL NURSES ARE COMPENSATED. SB183 J. Dotson TO AMEND THE UNIVERSAL ACT ASSESSMENT PROGRAM ACT…”
|
TO AMEND THE UNIVERSAL ACT ASSESSMENT PROGRAM ACT; AND TO AMEND THE TYPES OF ASSESSMENTS … | J. Dotson | Notification that SB183 is now Act 724 |
|
SB352
Act 721
· 2 mentions in agenda, chapter
Matched: “…EEDOM ACCOUNTS IN THE 2025-2026 SCHOOL YEAR AND THEREAFTER. SB352 Stone TO PROHIBIT ANTISEMITISM IN PUBLIC ELEMENTARY AND SEC…”
|
TO PROHIBIT ANTISEMITISM IN PUBLIC ELEMENTARY AND SECONDARY SCHOOLS; AND TO PROHIBIT ANTISEMITISM IN STATE-SUPPORTED … | Stone | Notification that SB352 is now Act 721 |
|
SB373
· 2 mentions in chapter, agenda
Matched: “SB373 Irvin TO AMEND THE ARKANSAS FINANCIAL EDUCATION COMMISSION.”
|
TO AMEND THE ARKANSAS FINANCIAL EDUCATION COMMISSION. | Irvin | Died in House Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
SB402
Act 725
· 2 mentions in chapter, agenda
Matched: “SB402 C. Penzo TO PROHIBIT A PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT AND AN EDUCAT…”
|
TO PROHIBIT A PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT AND AN EDUCATIONAL SERVICE COOPERATIVE FROM REQUIRING OR TAKING … | C. Penzo | Notification that SB402 is now Act 725 |
|
SB425
Act 722
· 2 mentions in agenda, chapter
Matched: “…estrictions designating areas as 'Members and Staff Only'. SB425 J. English TO AMEND VARIOUS PROVISIONS OF THE ARKANSAS CODE…”
|
TO AMEND VARIOUS PROVISIONS OF THE ARKANSAS CODE CONCERNING ENHANCED TRANSPORTATION; AND TO DECLARE AN … | J. English | Notification that SB425 is now Act 722 |
|
SB450
Act 915
· 2 mentions in chapter, agenda
Matched: “SB450 B. Davis TO REQUIRE THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION TO INCLUDE…”
|
TO REQUIRE THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION TO INCLUDE A HUMAN FETAL GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT DISCUSSION … | B. Davis | Notification that SB450 is now Act 915 |
|
SB484
Act 726
· 2 mentions in chapter, agenda
Matched: “SB484 Irvin TO ESTABLISH A PROCESS WHEREBY A VACANCY IS FILLED ON…”
|
TO ESTABLISH A PROCESS WHEREBY A VACANCY IS FILLED ON A SCHOOL DISTRICT BOARD OF … | Irvin | Notification that SB484 is now Act 726 |
|
SB504
Act 727
· 2 mentions in chapter, agenda
Matched: “SB504 Irvin TO ESTABLISH THE ARKANSAS RURAL PRECEPTORSHIP PROGRAM…”
|
TO ESTABLISH THE ARKANSAS RURAL PRECEPTORSHIP PROGRAM ACT. | Irvin | Notification that SB504 is now Act 727 |
|
SB547
Act 728
· 2 mentions in agenda, chapter
Matched: “…RNING ENHANCED TRANSPORTATION; AND TO DECLARE AN EMERGENCY. SB547 D. Sullivan TO REPEAL THE REQUIREMENT THAT A HOMESCHOOLED S…”
|
TO REPEAL THE REQUIREMENT THAT A HOMESCHOOLED STUDENT LIVE WITHIN A CERTAIN RADIUS OF A … | D. Sullivan | Notification that SB547 is now Act 728 |
|
HB1022
· 1 mention in chapter
Matched: “HB1022 A. Collins TO REPEAL PERFORMANCE-BASED INCENTIVE AWARDS FOR…”
|
TO REPEAL PERFORMANCE-BASED INCENTIVE AWARDS FOR PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND OPEN-ENROLLMENT PUBLIC CHARTER SCHOOLS. | A. Collins | Died in House Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
HB1242
· 1 mention in chapter
Matched: “HB1242 J. Mayberry TO AMEND THE MECHANISM BY WHICH SCHOOL NURSES A…”
|
TO AMEND THE MECHANISM BY WHICH SCHOOL NURSES ARE COMPENSATED. | J. Mayberry | Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
HB1710
· 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “AGENDA (Revised 4/8/25 @ 1:30PM) Removed HB1710 & HB1864 from Regular Agenda House Committee on Education T…”
|
TO PROHIBIT A SCHOOL FROM USING OR REFERENCING A PUBLIC SCHOOL RATING IN ANY ADVERTISING, … | Vaught | WITHDRAWN BY AUTHOR |
|
HB1747
· 1 mention in chapter
Matched: “HB1747 Vaught TO CREATE THE BABIES AT SCHOOL ACT; AND TO ALLOW SCH…”
|
TO CREATE THE BABIES AT SCHOOL ACT; AND TO ALLOW SCHOOLS TO PERMIT EMPLOYEES WHO … | Vaught | Recommended for study in the Interim by the … |
|
HB1864
· 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “AGENDA (Revised 4/8/25 @ 1:30PM) Removed HB1710 & HB1864 from Regular Agenda House Committee on Education Tuesday, A…”
|
TO AMEND PROVISIONS OF THE ARKANSAS CODE TO IMPROVE EFFICIENCY IN STUDENT INSTRUCTION; AND TO … | Andrews | Recommended for study in the Interim by the … |
|
SB559
Act 729
· 1 mention in chapter
Matched: “SB559 J. English TO AMEND THE ARKANSAS MILITARY CHILD SCHOOL TRAN…”
|
TO AMEND THE ARKANSAS MILITARY CHILD SCHOOL TRANSITIONS ACT OF 2021. | J. English | Notification that SB559 is now Act 729 |
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quorum. Good afternoon, House Ed. So as I have said a couple times, the goal of us meeting this afternoon is to finish
out any House bills because when we look at the calendar, the finishing session and Senate calendar and all that, frankly, it's going to have to get out of this committee today if it's going to be heard in the process because at best, today in committee, tomorrow on the floor senate ed on monday senate floor at some point next week but we've done on wednesday so
uh that's the goal here is to make sure that
house members have a chance to get their bills through should they want to do that so first up without objection we're going to move around on the agenda we're going to
hear from representative walker and i believe this is uh house bill 1903 represent walker if you would please introduce yourself and you're
Representative Steven Walker
Unverified
0:47
recognized stephen walker house district 27 if it's okay with the chair and committee i'd like to bring miss alice forward up here. What if it's not okay? Then we'll
proceed without her. She's like, that's fine with me. Ms. Salisford, if you would please introduce yourself for the record, and you are recognized.
Representative Steven Walker
Unverified
1:06
Courtney Salisford, Department of Education. So we have House Bill 1903. To me, it's a pretty straightforward bill. We're just taking the requirements for our schools to do the alternative learning environment and changing it more to where it's a may um giving schools the option that want to do it um it's this bill is not going to impact any type of funding i i think the schools out there that are doing the alternative learning environment if they do it well it is a great
program for for our school or for our students to really help fill in the gaps but at the same time i know whenever you require schools to do something it's not always done to the best so the ones that want to do it are the ones that are going to have a good program so we don't need to be requiring schools to to do it going forward so this just gives a little bit more to that local control let our school districts decide if this is a program that helps if it is they continue with it they keep the funding nothing changes there and if miss alice ford wants to give anything
further or she can just sit here and
Speaker 14
2:13
help answer questions yep i'll just answer questions i think think
you addressed it perfectly. Are there questions
Chair
Unverified
2:29
from the committee? This is 1903. Representative Grutter, you're recognized for a question. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Representative Jessie McGruder
Unverified
2:36
Thank you for the bill, but I
do have some concerns in regards to what What will happen with students who are disciplined in a school in the ALE environment?
Will we eliminate that, or what are the options for students who
Speaker 26
2:52
are? Right. So first, students should not be put in ALE for discipline reasons. That's not the purpose of an alternative learning environment. They might be put there in lieu of discipline. So if you have a student who's not being successful in the traditional classroom setting, They might be put in an alternative learning environment where they can get more targeted assistance, more direct instruction. They can get some wraparound services, mental health counseling, et cetera, which is great, and that's the intent of it.
Unfortunately, what we have seen sometimes is districts want to do different programs. So instead of pulling a student out of the classroom, they push in with those services. But because they're required to have an ALE, sometimes they almost end up just putting students in there to fulfill that purpose or because they have joined into a consortium with other school districts for an ALE, and so they're just trying to make sure that they fill those seats. But this does not remove the responsibility of a school district to address student behaviors, to provide them the support and services that they need to address behavior issues.
This just gives them the flexibility and option to do it in the setting that they feel is most appropriate for the
Representative Jessie McGruder
Unverified
4:05
student. Okay, I have a follow-up, Mr. Chair. I have a school in my district that's just built a new alternative learning environment.
Would that affect their funding or anything? And we actually had a Diamond Award winner for the ALE, and she was presented here a couple weeks ago. Would that affect anything? No, not at all. They can still continue
Speaker 26
4:25
to have that program. the funding does not change. Nothing at all changes. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Are there additional questions about the committee? Seeing no additional questions. We do not have anyone sign up to speak for or against the bill. Would anyone like to speak for
Representative Steven Walker
Unverified
4:49
or against the bill? Seeing none. Representative, uh, Walker, would you like to close your bill? Just basically the way I opened, um, this is just giving schools the option. It's not going to take anything away. It's not going to force anybody out. Funding stays in place. With that, I'm closed for the bill and make a motion do pass. Representative Walker
is closed for his bill, made a motion do pass. Is there a discussion on that motion? I see no discussion.
All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed. Congratulations, Representative Walker. You've passed your bill. Next up, we will hear HB 1825, Representative Wooldridge. If you would please introduce yourself for
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
5:20
the record. You're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank
Speaker 40
5:24
you, Committee. Jeremy Wooldridge, District 1. Courtney Salsford, Department of Education.
Speaker 42
5:39
Do we have an amendment on this? All right. Okay. Perfect. You're recognized. So we
Representative Jeremy Wooldridge
Unverified
5:44
did adopt the amendment already, so do we need to go through that process again, or is it adopted? No, you're just adopted. You're recognized and presented the bill as amended. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, committee. And thank you for allowing me to present this again. So I have visited with a couple of additional committee members and just wanted to put this back out in front of you one more time to answer any additional questions that you may have. I definitely don't want to belabor the point. I'll give a brief overview and then I'll allow the Department of Ed to have some additional comment towards what we're trying to accomplish.
This is a bill that's constituent driven for me. This is a bill that comes out of the legislative district that I represent. I've had a lot of my schools, teachers from my schools, administrators from my school ask me to make this at least attempt one more time for you guys. So what I'm ultimately trying to accomplish is making the computer science course optional outside of the CTE pathway track. So what we're trying to do, if you'll remember the amendment that was presented and you all graciously adopted during the committee,
required the computer science program to be embedded into the CTE pathways. It will be embedded into every CTE pathway. It will specifically outline what that pathway is focused on. So it will give a computer science class that I believe is better than just the generic class that's being offered right now as a graduation requirement. I think that it will reach students in a way that they are more apt to engage in the process. I think that they're more apt to implement the process as they move forward,
and I think that it will be better suited in the long run and advance what we're trying to accomplish with the computer science graduation requirement. Right now, currently, and I know we had a lot of debate on IEPs, 504s, and other plans, there are students in Arkansas that because of this graduation requirement are not getting diplomas. They're getting certificates of completion. that's what I'm trying to solve. That's what I'm trying to fix. I'm trying to give local control back to school districts. I told you about my two little boys. They're both in public school
in Marmaduke, and I believe in my public school. That's why they're there. I believe that my school has the ability to decide what is best for my students and for my kids, and this allows them to have that option. It's not making computer science go away. It's just making it an option for those students that are not choosing a CTE pathway. And with that, I'll recognize the department for some additional comments. Thank you, Representative Wildridge. So
Speaker 26
8:17
I just wanted to kind of, now that I have data in front of me,
address some of the questions that were asked yesterday. And I think not to speak for Representative Wildridge, but to say that the purpose of his bill is to offer that flexibility and to not restrict certain students who may not be able to meet the requirement. But also it's about the lack of teachers that are certified to teach in computer science and the difficulty that some school districts are having. So we pulled the data on the number of teachers that are certified to teach computer science and the number that had to go through like a technical permit or some other alternative way
to be able to teach it because they couldn't pass the praxis or because they had another licensure already and just added it on to an endorsement. So there are 456 teachers who had it through a traditional pathway. There are over 1,000 schools in our state. Not every school is able to hire or keep a computer science teacher. Because of that, many of them are having to use a virtual option. So last year we had 37,000 students take a computer science class.
4,200 of those had to take it through a virtual option because their school district didn't offer it with a teacher in place. We feel in support of Representative Wooldridge that by embedding those computer science standards into those CTE courses where there are CTE certified teachers who can teach those classes and where students are interested, that those students are going to get more out of that than they are taking a virtual computer science course that they're probably not interested in
and probably taking only because it's a requirement. One of the other points that was brought up yesterday was students with disabilities or students with IEPs. Under federal law, students with an IEP or a 504 plan cannot have different standards and receive a high school diploma. We are monitored on that. We are checked on that every year, and we have to sign assurances with the U.S. Department of Education. if a student has an iep and has severe cognitive disabilities and we are limited to one percent of
our student population they can meet alternate standards and receive a certificate of completion they might graduate from high school but they cannot receive a high school diploma so you heard yesterday about some alternative standards that were developed for students with disabilities those standards do exist for that one percent of the most severely cognitive disabled but of the 72,000 students with an IEP in school districts only one percent can meet those can use
those alternative standards and again to receive a certificate of completion not a high school diploma so while teachers and other IEP teams will try to make the accommodations then modifications that they can they still have to be held to the same standards as other students or as school districts cannot issue them a diploma because it is a graduation requirement i still don't feel truly as passionate as i am about special education that that's the reason for this bill though
i just wanted you all to have accurate information what i do feel is the reason for the bill is that flexibility for school districts we talk in here a lot about we set minimum standards and then we let superintendents make decisions that's best for their areas. If they are unable to find a certified computer science teacher, why not let them be able to use the CTE courses to meet the interest and needs of their students? We do not feel that computer science is going to go away.
It is extremely important. That's why we want to embed it into many of these other courses, so that students know how to apply it. Computer science, honestly, is pretty much ingrained into most of it most courses these days because everything is done online in a lot of classes especially in high school we feel like this bill just gives those districts the flexibility to meet the needs of their students and address the needs of their areas in case they can't find a high school certified computer science high school teacher and so
Chair
Unverified
12:44
we just want to support representative
of Wooldridge in granting that flexibility to school districts. Mr. Chairman,
Representative Jeremy Wooldridge
Unverified
12:51
committee, you know again I come to you just asking you to consider this bill. I know that we heard it. We debated this topic at length the other day. I want to be forthcoming with you. I want to be transparent. I reached out to the opposition of this bill to allow them to know that I was going to run it again today. I reached out to the lobbying firm that they've employed to try to protect the computer science graduation requirement to allow them to know that we're going to run it again
today. I'm not trying to hide anything. I am really trying to do what I believe in my heart is the right thing to do for Arkansas students. I'm happy to answer any questions. I know the department will be happy to answer any questions, and then we'll get out of the way
Representative Julie Mayberry
Unverified
13:36
for testimony. Representative Mayberry, you're recognized for a question. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I was not here for any of the debate before or conversation or whatever, And, you know, I've listened to several folks come and talk about the importance of the computer science.
I've listened to you. I'm truly, I'm in the middle here because I really see both sides. But one point, and I don't know if this was something that was discussed before, and so that's why I bring it up. I had, my oldest daughter actually was going off to college to become a business teacher in high school. That's what her goal was. And one of the classes that she would have been teaching would have been the computer science classes, the coding classes, and all that. And once it was noted that it was going to be a required class, she kind of took some steps back from wanting to take that on as her major.
And she's actually not even a teacher now. But the reason why she was choosing business as the class she wanted to teach was she knew that the students who were choosing those classes were choosing to be in those classes. And so you have kids who want to be there and want to learn that topic, and you can do a higher level of learning. She said she didn't want to do math and science and all that because the kids are forced to do those things. and so um you have to simplify things and she wanted to have a deeper dive um so i i say all
that to say is that is that what you're seeing i i mean i i believe in the computer science stuff i think that we absolutely need to be on top of it um but are we seeing that there are some students who now are taking the classes and really have no interest in it and it's making harder for the teachers to um to really dig deeper it has that
been an experience that you're aware of or absolutely so i've heard from teachers
Representative Jeremy Wooldridge
Unverified
15:37
in my district i've heard from teachers out of my
district and basically they're making the point that you're making my original bill and and i'll just tell you too education is not my forte i didn't uh select to be on this committee because i don't pretend to understand all the things that there are to know about education but my intentions are pure with this bill. When I brought this bill originally, I met with Code.org. I met with the group that worked for them. I met with the Department of Ed, and I asked them, truly, help me make this a better bill. So I've made multiple amendments to this bill to get us to where we are today. I wasn't able to make an amendment that satisfied Code.org because it's
graduation requirement or nothing. There was no amendment that we could come to that would allow us to be on common ground. But where we're at today is a better bill, and I thank them for that. So what we are doing, or my attempt with this bill, is again to embed it into the CTE programs. When you find those students that are selecting by choice different programs that they think they may want to make a career out of, a computer science program or class that's applied to them specific to a field of interest,
I think is something that they can get excited about. I think it's something that they'll get engaged in and learn and implement and use for years to come. Making every ninth grader take it right out of the gate, my guess would be, and I don't know
for a fact, but my guess would be you turn more folks away with that approach than you do
Representative Julie Mayberry
Unverified
17:07
endure them into the field. The school districts still have to offer all these classes. Yes.
Speaker 62
17:13
Is that correct? And tell me what those are.
So all school districts have to offer three CTE pathways. At
Speaker 26
17:20
a minimum. Yes, at a minimum. Most of your school districts do offer more. And so there will be computer science options available to students. Under our new course choice program, if there's a course that a student wants to take specific to computer science that their school district doesn't offer and another school district does or a private provider does, then they can take it through course choice, and it's covered under the state funding. So we do not want to take computer science away from any student who's interested in that and who wants to take it,
and there will still be options available for
Representative Stetson Painter
Unverified
18:00
them out there. Representative Painter, you're recognized for a question. Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Department of Representative Woolworths, you can probably answer this. How hard is it probably to recruit computer science folks to Marmaduke School or Viola in some of the rural parts or even further into the Delta? And don't you think maybe giving schools the flexibility that would help them?
Representative Jeremy Wooldridge
Unverified
18:24
Absolutely. I mean, it is extremely difficult when you get into the rural parts of the state. And, again, implementing this through the CTE program, every school is going to have the option to have this class taught through the virtual platform. So to me, to your point, I don't know if this is the point you're trying to make, and I've not thought about it until just now, but you increase consistency with the class because they're going to be learning that basically through the same platform potentially. A school can still employ a teacher if they choose to, but to your point, I think that it gives them flexibility.
It gives the district flexibility, and there's still access out there, and I think that it's more finely tuned to something that can be beneficial down the road. Okay. Yes, sir. Thank you, and
Chair
Unverified
19:07
Mr. Chair, motion at the proper time. Don't get ahead of yourself. Representative Meeks, you're recognized. Thank you. Thank you, Mr.
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
19:12
Chair. Colleagues, I think you all know why I stand on the technology stuff. And we appreciate your support. Thank you, sir. Let's see, so I think you're getting me there, so maybe you can get me over the line here. So since the department's at the end of the table, I'm assuming you guys are supportive of this,
and I support trying to get flexibility, and I think with the bill, Representative Mayberry just passed on the digital literacy piece, hopefully we'll finish getting that through. It'll give me a little bit more comfort here. The question that I have is, or the concern that I have is the current computer classes that are in place now that we're requiring every student to cover. Can you give us a brief synopsis of what we're actually requiring now that
if we take this out, that we will no longer be
requiring? What could we potentially be losing, I guess, is maybe my
Speaker 25
20:16
concern. Might be exceeding my knowledge. But there are, because, again, all school districts
Speaker 26
20:21
have to offer three career technical education pathways in high-wage, high-demand areas. Again, most districts offer more than that. Three is the minimum. they can choose from, I mean, there's things like artificial intelligence and machine learning.
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
20:37
No, I'm sorry to interrupt, but the current computer class that we are requiring them to learn now.
Speaker 26
20:44
So the requirement is for a course that meets the computer science credit. So there's, I think, you know, like 55 different courses that can meet that credit. Okay. What we're saying is by taking away this requirement as a graduation requirement is that if computer science is not something you want to take, you don't have to take it. But if you're interested, it will be embedded
into these career and technical education pathways. I cannot say for sure that if this is not a requirement that school districts will still offer the very basic level intro to computer science. Some of them may, some of them may not. But what we do see is that a large majority of students are taking that basic class because they're not interested, because they don't want to take computer science. And so instead of requiring school districts to teach that course for those students, if we embed it into the CTE courses, then all of the students who are interested
Chair
Unverified
21:42
can still take it through one of those pathways that is more applicable to what they
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
21:49
intend to do later on. Okay. And I totally support that. So I guess if we were to implement it, is it possible that we will have students that will go through high school in this case that would leave with no basic computer knowledge whatsoever. Because that's ultimately the concern. And I don't care if you're going to be welding or if you're going to be farming.
You still, some of these skills are still, you know. Of course, in today's culture, I find it difficult that anybody would even make it to middle school without having basic computer skills. So, Representative, I'm
Representative Jeremy Wooldridge
Unverified
22:28
going to try to answer that question the best I can, and I can't speak specifically to what the course is called, and there are teachers in the room that probably can, but, I mean, I can tell you my kindergartner is testing on a computer right now. I'm in no way trying to take the use of computers
or anything surrounding that out of schools. I think that there are going to be various opportunities through elementary, junior high, and high school where they're taking some business classes and other classes that are going to be computer-based classes. My concern with the computer science class is when you look at those 55, the basic or the entry level to that, so what I would assume would be the easiest class in that slate of classes, has to do with specifically coding and some other things is my understanding of that.
And that's where I think that if this were a Microsoft, Excel, Word, all of the things that people are using on a daily basis, So that's not what this class is. They're going to
be doing those classes in some other business classes, I believe, during their school career. And
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
23:32
I guess that's kind of the heart that I was getting into is that basic class, if it's, you know, focused on computer coding, well, with AI, the way it's coming, computer coding is actually starting to become obsolete because the AI will actually do the coding for you.
You know, obviously, if you're going to make a career of it, you need to know how to
do it. But the average person doesn't need to have that skill
Speaker 26
23:57
set anymore. So, all right, I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Please. Well, and I just wanted to add, if I could, I think that brings up a good point about that's a common misnomer about computer science courses and what they are actually teaching. It's not how to use a computer. It's not how to log into a computer. You're talking about application development, programming, networking, cybersecurity, robotics. So, again, very important skills if you're interested in those,
but the basic computing skills that students need to be
Speaker 14
24:25
successful in high school and beyond, those are taught much earlier. Those are built into
Chair
Unverified
24:36
usually your middle school classes, not high school classes. Representative Gonzalez-Werling, you
Representative Justin Gonzales
Unverified
24:41
recognize? Yes. You were mentioning the pathways, the minimum requirements for high schools. They have to have three specific, at least three pathways.
They can have more than that, but those would be the three. Yes. Okay. Can you describe what those are? Right.
Speaker 26
25:00
So a pathway is essentially like a series of four, sometimes more courses that a student can take. usually the goal being that at the end they're certified or have sort of license or endorsement at the end of that. And so instead of, you know, kids just taking random courses, if they choose one of these pathways that school districts have to make available, you know,
whether it's in, if it was in database applications, there's a series of courses that they take, you know, freshman, sophomore, junior, senior year, so that at the end they are certified in, and I am not a computer person, but certified in whatever that database application is. If it's digital electronics, if it's business intelligence, precision agriculture, so that by the end of there they have, again, a certificate or some sort of technical permit
or something that they can then use when they
Representative Justin Gonzales
Unverified
26:02
go into the workforce. A follow-up? Okay. Okay. So
those are the pathways are basically pathways where students can earn a certificate after taking four specific courses that fit that pathway. Okay. So what? Okay. So I've got it. I'm not exactly sure how to ask this question, but I'm just thinking out loud here. I'm thinking K-8 right now.
So I was, what type of computer skills standards are we doing starting in kindergarten all the way through eighth where that student now would be ready for a more concentrated or maybe just a level one basic computer class? And I'm just wondering, because I'm thinking that there are some standards, computer standards already being built in, kind of setting our students up, preparing them for that next level.
Speaker 26
27:12
Right. So, and unfortunately, I don't have those standards in front of me. I can get that for you. But back to what we were saying earlier is that students are taught to use a computer or an electronic device as early as kindergarten. Our state assessments are given through computers. You know, my son has had an iPad issued by the school district since he was in kindergarten. They're taught how to use those, and computer usability skills and standards are built into most of our courses as they go through. But I would have to get that information for you on the specifics.
Representative Justin Gonzales
Unverified
27:44
Okay, and one more follow-up, and that is I know that there
are, it's been mentioned that there's 55 different courses. But they're all different courses. Some of them are maybe the basic level, maybe intermediate, advanced. Is that correct? That is correct. Yeah, there's even AP courses. Okay, and there's even AP courses. So how many of those and what type of classes would those be for the basic level one classes?
Because I don't think those require any prerequisites. but just like a basic level class that would count towards
Speaker 26
28:29
that computer science. I'm just curious. Yeah, so some of them are computer science and mathematics, essentials of computer programming, Java 1 and Java 2, intro to object-oriented programming, computer science and software engineering. That one's an advanced one. Intro to Mobile Application Development, AP Computer Science Principles, AP Computer Science, IB, Computer Science Internship, and then there's some
Chair
Unverified
29:01
other concurrent credit Computer Science.
So those are kind of your basic
Representative Justin Gonzales
Unverified
29:14
the basic level ones. So, okay. I have one more question. You mentioned, Representative Woodridge, about the teachers not having enough teachers. I know that there's been an increase in the number of computer science teachers across the state, you know,
when Arkansas had that computer science graduation requirement. And so I'm just kind of wondering about that. You know, so some of the districts are still struggling to have a teacher that could teach a computer science class? Is that? That's my understanding, yes, ma'am. So then who would be teaching these pathway classes? It can be
Speaker 113
30:00
taught through the virtual platform. Okay,
Representative Justin Gonzales
Unverified
30:03
so then there wouldn't be a teacher on, at this, so there are schools that do not have a live teacher to teach the classes face-to-face.
Representative Jeremy Wooldridge
Unverified
30:15
I mean, there are, I think, currently some situations like that. But, you know, for rural Arkansas, that's not an uncommon thing. We have the cooperatives where we share teachers for lots of different things now that are specialty-type classes. So, I mean, I'll use Marmadick, for instance. There are some courses at Marmadick that are offered that are taught in partnership with the cooperative, and that same teacher will go around to different schools. So I think that's not an uncommon
thing in rural parts of the state. I'm not certain that you guys maybe face that.
Chair
Unverified
30:45
But that's something we live with every day. Okay, thank you. Representative Brown, you're recognized
Representative Matt Brown
Unverified
31:03
for a question. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I mean, I'd really like to be able to support your bill. We'd love to have you. But I have some serious concerns, just considering that Arkansas would be the only state in our area that would not be having a required basic computer science class.
Is the basic computer science class the coding class? Is that what it
Chair
Unverified
31:25
is? It's my understanding. Yeah, so there's an intro to computer science that the primary
Representative Matt Brown
Unverified
31:30
focus is coding. So are there other
Chair
Unverified
31:33
options on that level? Yes, there are other options. Do
Speaker 26
31:40
we have students failing these courses? I don't have that information. Like, specifically, I've heard anecdotally from even other legislators, you know, calling, is there something that we can't do because particular students cannot pass that are struggling?
And maybe it is because they have a learning disability. But, again, unless they are that severely cognitively disabled, they can't have alternate standards.
Chair
Unverified
32:02
And so, again, I don't have factual data on that. I just have anecdotal evidence
Representative Matt Brown
Unverified
32:10
and stories from other people. And to address the teacher shortage, so there are virtual options. Yes. So they can find instruction. I just don't want to hurt Arkansas.
I don't want to hurt our opportunities. Nor do I. I mean, and I know you don't. I guess
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
32:45
I don't have any more questions. Thank you. Representative Beck, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My first, I guess, question, concern maybe, is you mentioned earlier the shortage of computer science teachers.
And in the bill it says identify career and technical education courses that meet computer science credits. I mean, A, computer science credit. So who's teaching those classes? I mean, what would be
the... It could be taught through the virtual platform. Well, and so,
Speaker 26
33:21
like, you don't have to have a computer science license to teach an engineering course. You might be an engineer, and you know everything about how to address computer science standards,
but if you are teaching a computer science course, you have to have a computer science license. If you're teaching a CTE course, such as engineering, that has computer science embedded into it, then you might be licensed in math or licensed in some other area, and that's how it addresses the shortage area, because you can have an ag-certified teacher teaching an agriculture class with computer
Chair
Unverified
33:57
science standards, and they don't have to have that computer science license.
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
34:03
Okay, so just to follow up on that. So my screen went away from me.
Dang computers, you can't trust these things.
Maybe you should have taken a course. I should have taken a
course. There you go. So meets, you know, I still kind of hung up. Okay, who's the king or whoever, who's in charge of this meets the computer science credit requirement?
Speaker 26
34:38
So we have people in our unit that will then get, like, groups of stakeholders, and we've talked about this several times before. If something is required as a standard, people in our division will pull educators, teachers licensed in that area to come together and set the standards and then work on how those are taught and embedded into courses, and then they will designate which courses meet a requirement, and everything is kept in this super fancy database course catalog, and so
when school districts are choosing what to teach, what to address, so that they have the right course numbering, they go and basically pick which courses are we going to offer, and they have to meet the standards for that
Chair
Unverified
35:24
course. And again, it's all tied back to the stakeholder groups that have
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
35:29
made that determination. So I think I get it now. So this is very similar or maybe identical, actually, to because we were working with our community college to get students to be able to take classes
there that would then, and there was this, I was just monitoring the situation, I wasn't ready to, but they were actually saying, okay, this could apply towards this high school credit, and this, so that's, it's kind of, it's the same process, I'm assuming. Yes. So, there's, all right, okay, so, so now I understand how you're fixing the shortage. Thank you. Representative Walker, you're
Representative Steven Walker
Unverified
36:10
recognized for a question. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So Representative Brown kind of touched on this,
so you probably won't have the data to answer this question, but I'll just check anyway. In your opening statement, you mentioned that kids with IEPs and 504s are having trouble meeting this requirement, and that's why we're wanting to change it from Shell to May. Is there any chance that we collect data on how many kids specifically in the 504 or IEP programs that have not been able to meet this
Chair
Unverified
36:45
requirement? No. Again, we're restricted by federal law that only 1% of students with disabilities
Speaker 26
36:50
can graduate off those alternate standards, and that's not with a diploma. And so if an individual student is not passing a class, we wouldn't know that. We would only know if a student is
Chair
Unverified
37:02
not graduating. But no, we don't have that information. And we
Representative Steven Walker
Unverified
37:07
would not know, we would just know that a kid wasn't graduating, but we wouldn't know why. Exactly. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Are there additional
Chair
Unverified
37:18
questions about the committee? Representative Grutter, you recognize.
Representative Jessie McGruder
Unverified
37:24
So I'm getting a better understanding of this because I received several emails from computer science teachers who are not in support of this. I thank you for the work that you've done and actually clarifying it. So from my understanding, from K-8, teachers still will have computers in their rooms and students will still be engaging in computers because I go back to when they were teaching typing on a computer in class.
So we still will have that. Yes. Okay. So then you get to ninth grade, and it's a CTE option. that's offered, and it's more of the coding class. So you still have those computer science teachers embedded. Okay. Yeah, school
Speaker 14
38:11
districts can still offer all the computer science courses that they want.
Speaker 26
38:17
Absolutely. But for school districts who are having trouble getting a licensed teacher or, honestly, who just don't have the student population interested in courses
that require a computer science licensed teacher, they can offer that same computer science through the CTE classes, again, because those require different licenses, and still make sure that students have those opportunities. Okay, so this does not
Representative Jessie McGruder
Unverified
38:38
eliminate the need for computer science teachers? No, not at all. Okay. And any school that
Representative Jeremy Wooldridge
Unverified
38:44
wants to double down and make this a priority and have a computer science teacher that's offering that to students, more power to them. I trust our school districts to make the right decision.
Speaker 156
38:57
Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Representative Brown,
Representative Matt Brown
Unverified
39:08
you reckon this for a question? Well, so what if we made a graduation requirement or changed our graduation requirements to they may take English or they may take history? You know, what if we didn't make that a requirement? I think
Representative Jeremy Wooldridge
Unverified
39:25
that's an excellent question. Anthony and I actually had that conversation,
and I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I think that he had told you all that he was going back to get a superintendent license, and he may get on board with that in the future, depending on the curriculum at the school level. But I don't think that – I understand why you're asking that question. I think that, again, we're going to see value in our local school districts. As I told you earlier, I know Representative Walker and others are teachers that are on this committee. I'm not a teacher. I have to trust my local district.
There's a private school in my district, and there are public schools in my district. I chose to put my boys in a public school because I know the administrators at that school, and I trust them to provide a quality education for my kids. I don't proclaim to have the knowledge to set curriculum, so I don't want to do that here. I will say we've had a big focus on literacy and some other things that we've not done specifically a great job in in the past. And I think that having this computer science class as a requirement may take away some
of the time where we could become more proficient in some of those standards that are required. I think there's an argument to
Representative Matt Brown
Unverified
40:45
be had from multiple sides. And one other question, like you're saying that the
alternative would be to take a CTE track and get your computer science that way, but what if your student upon graduation wants to enter college to study to be a teacher or art critic or, you know, what if they want the college education that doesn't take them
into engineering or into the sciences? You know, they don't need computer science? They don't need Any kind of background in that? If you're asking me
Representative Jeremy Wooldridge
Unverified
41:23
my personal opinion, then I would say no. If that's not something that they're interested in, and to your point, they choose a field that they would not use it, then no. I took Spanish, and I don't utilize it, but I had to. I do un poquito.
Representative Denise Garner
Unverified
41:46
Thank you. Representative Garner, you're recognized for a question. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I know we've talked about this a little bit. My concern is for the kids. Amen. Not for the district so much. Sure. You know, I do think there are opportunities for multiple classes, multiple choices, virtual options. There's a lot of that. But say what you will if you don't mandate, there are places that are not going to have the opportunity.
There are kids that are not going to have the opportunity. and every one of these kids that we spent time with in robotics, every one of them agreed that they wouldn't have chosen the things that they've done if they hadn't had that opportunity. So what can we do to make sure that those kids have the opportunity, even if they don't know they want it necessarily, that they have that opportunity and that potential? That's my, whether we're talking about AP or we're talking about computer science,
It's easy if we don't mandate it to say we can't do it, so we're not going to. And so it's the kids that suffer because they don't have that opportunity to learn, to know whether they do or don't. I completely understand where you're coming from. I
Representative Jeremy Wooldridge
Unverified
43:11
agree with you. I don't think that that's an exhaustive list that ends with computer science. I think there are all kinds of other options out there that would probably be great for students
and that they may would explore and do if the state of Arkansas forced or mandated them to do that. Unfortunately, we don't have the ability or the time to mandate all of those things into our curriculum. So, again, that could be a possibility with computer science, but I think there are other examples that could be equally important to where if you mandated a child to do it, it may spark an
interest that they never knew they had, but how many more things can we mandate into the curriculum?
Speaker 14
43:53
And if I could just add, I think you actually make a good
Speaker 26
43:57
point, though, of robotics is not required. School districts are not required to have special interest clubs, but they do it because student interest is there and because students want to participate. We trust our superintendents to make decisions every day about things like ALE, about school calendars. We want them to make the right choices because they're responsible for preparing kids for college career, for life after. And we trust them with those decisions every day.
There is a foreign language requirement, but they choose which foreign languages they teach. Thanks to many of the decisions that you all have made, if a school district, if a student, or if a student, if their parents are not happy with the choices that their superintendent has made, they can go to the next school district they can do a course choice and get it from a private provider we don't want to limit kids options we want them to have as many options as they possibly can so can we guarantee that no superintendent's going to make a bad decision and eliminate
everything no we can't guarantee that but we can guarantee that we're going to be aware of that school district that we're going to be offering support to that school district and that parents in that school district who want their kids to have other opportunities are going to look at other school districts that are. No one's here from the School for the Math, Science, and the Arts, so hopefully they don't kill me for this, but they have talked to us about offering computer science courses. That's one of the most prestigious schools in the state. They want to make their computer science courses available
to every student in the state through virtual options, and so if a student wants that, they're going to be able to get that, and we're going to help make sure that kids
Representative Jeremy Wooldridge
Unverified
45:35
have those options. And just to follow up on that, I think that a component of learns that makes school choice across the board open to a lot of different schools may force the hand of some of these schools that otherwise, to Mr. Owen's example that he gave yesterday, a superintendent said that his kids are going to pick tomatoes. They don't need computer science. First of all, I hope that superintendent was reported. And second of all, I hope that all schools, all students, as we move
forward, parents have the option to take a school out of that environment where they're not getting the skills that they need and put them into a school that is preparing them to compete globally. If there is value in the program, to Courtney's point with robotics, if there's value in the program, people will migrate to the program. I'm just saying that a one-size-fits-all for every school district, all 1,000 and I think 60 districts in the state, that this is what you have to do is not the
Representative Denise Garner
Unverified
46:28
right approach. Well, it's not a one-size-fits-all. There are 55 options.
Chair
Unverified
46:31
I don't think 55 sizes fit all. Representative
Representative DeAnn Vaught
Unverified
46:41
Vaughn, you're recognized for a question.
Speaker 12
46:48
That's the Lord, Representative. How funny. Okay, so we've talked. I have a
Representative DeAnn Vaught
Unverified
46:56
daughter that definitely would have never thought that she would enjoy teaching anything in computer period paragraph
had she not went and got certified to do it. A couple of things that I've spoke with you about, so I'm not like catching him off guard if anybody thinks I am, I'm not, because we have spoke about this in depth. We have got 30 states about to pass legislation that we have in the state of Arkansas right now. We're actually number one in the nation in something in education. Wow, what a miracle that would be, right?
I worry about what several people have said. I worry that we are going backwards. I don't want to go backwards. And I even asked this question to you the other day. Why didn't we do something for remediation? Why didn't we just take that and carve that piece out? And it sounds like that would pass out of this committee. Federal law wouldn't allow it. If we carved out something that said they did not have to have computer science?
Representative Jeremy Wooldridge
Unverified
48:08
For the IEP. The IEP students, only that 1% can have an alternate course. The rest cannot be treated differently. You
Speaker 26
48:15
cannot establish different graduation requirements and still give them the same diploma. Okay. but they do
Representative DeAnn Vaught
Unverified
48:26
take different classes at some point in time right i mean it has to be i mean i've seen them take a different math than other students take to graduate i've seen them
Speaker 26
48:37
take but they have to be teaching the same standards in those courses you might have
three different math classes but if they're not teaching the same standards then they are violating state and federal law you might be teaching the standards differently you might be providing those students with more one-on-one support, additional interventions and resources, but they still have to meet the same standards. Yeah, I'll let Wade
Speaker 180
49:06
go, and I'll come back, because I'm... Representative
Gonzalez-Worthing, you recognize for a question.
Representative Justin Gonzales
Unverified
49:15
I guess I keep going back, And I, too, worry about our students not being prepared in this area, especially, you know, we were at the top. We were one of the first states to do this, to offer computer science as a graduation requirement. And we'll be the first to remove it. You know, so the first to start and the first to remove it. But one of the things that keeps coming up is the, you mentioned the standards.
And I'm just wondering, I'm a teacher, but I'm also a teacher educator. And oftentimes, teachers do have difficulty, I mean, myself included, there are components in what we teach that are difficult to teach. However, there are professional development opportunities, coaching, to teach a particular unit of instruction that is just hard. So how do you make it relevant to the student? how do you make it where it makes sense to the student and that takes extra time in terms of
coaching etc where you are not watering down the standards you're keeping the standard there but your your approach to teaching that student is going to be quite different this one over here doesn't need it they get it just like that okay but this one over here you may need to try three or four or five different things ask the parents what works for them at home no two children learn the same way. And so really delving into that. So that's one thing that keeps coming back
to me. And then the other is the shortage of computer science teachers as well. So what I'm wondering, is it possible that we're maybe looking at some, I'm not sure how this would be done, but just some ways in which we could help school districts that are having difficulty with those shortages in this area and additional training for teaching the standards.
That's what I keep coming back to. I don't know, just asking what opportunities there would be, because to me it sounds like there's a teacher shortage since we're having to use virtual teachers or sharing those resources. Maybe we
have a different concern here. So I can tell you
Speaker 26
51:43
that some of the things we did even back when Mr. Owen was at the department is offered stipends to teachers to go back and get the license, offered the professional development.
We did a lot of things to try to recruit, and the number of teachers did increase a lot, but you can only do so much without forcing people to become licensed. And as an example, so when the legislation was first passed, it was also a requirement that every school district have a computer science licensed teacher. And because school districts couldn't meet that, this body took away that requirement. And that's why many students are now accessing and getting that graduation requirement virtually.
Because we took off the requirement that school districts have a teacher, but we didn't take away the requirement from the students. And so now they're having to get it through those virtual means. So could we do more? Probably. We do make efforts every day to recruit more teachers. We have an entire staff of people that try to recruit more people into the education profession. That's why we helped increase teacher salaries. We offer professional development and different scholarships for teachers, for individuals to go to school to become teachers.
Chair
Unverified
53:00
So we have made lots of efforts, and those efforts have been somewhat fruitful but still not able to meet the need of
Representative Wade Andrews
Unverified
53:12
every district. Representative Andrews, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess I have a question for Ms. Ford. Talking about the ISPs and all that, has there been
any conversation with our federal partners about trying to get a waiver or an exemption? I know we're about to have a possible big shakeup with the Department of Ed and them in the coming months, years, however, all that shakes out with them just block granting money and giving us and y'all the ability to make these decisions.
Have you communicated with them saying, why don't we make an exemption for that, this one segment of the population that needs the exemption, and let's leave the rest of this
Speaker 14
53:53
alone for everyone else? I specifically have not had any of those conversations. I can tell
Speaker 26
53:58
you that I've done special education law for 15 years, and they've been talking about redoing federal IDEA law for about 14 of those
Representative Wade Andrews
Unverified
54:08
years. Can we, I mean, can I request that y'all look at that?
Chair
Unverified
54:15
We can certainly broach that conversation. Okay, thank you. Seeing no additional
questions by the committee, We do have several people who would like to speak on the bill. First, Mr. Anthony Owen.
You're recognized to speak on the bill. Thank you, Chairman Brooks, committee members.
Speaker 191
54:46
Anthony Owen, Senior Director of State Government Affairs for Code.org,
Speaker 192
54:50
also President of the National Advocacy Coalition. it's Groundhog Day again. We're back talking about this bill. Hopefully we can end this tonight. First, I do have some prepared statements again, but I have a list of things I want to address based on what was just said. And first is Department's Own Guidance. That is the first link on their Alternative Pathways website. This is Commissioner's Memo LS19069,
And I will read verbatim, this pathway, talking about the alternative pathway to graduation for students with significant cognitive disabilities, this pathway will be available to incoming freshmen for the 2019-2020 school year. And beginning with this ninth grade cohort, a student must meet either the requirements for the core pathway or the alternate pathway in order to graduate with a regular diploma. verbatim from the DOE website. So this argument that they do not get a regular diploma
is countered by this commissioner's memo, and that is active on their site. I also would just like to address some other things. One, there was a statement about my flippant joke about, as a superintendent, come back and repealing all graduation requirements. I hope this body realizes that I would never be in support of that. We have minimum expectations as adults that we expect of children.
If we went to every whim of what children want to do and what children don't want to do or what they don't think is important at a particular point in their life, I can tell you I would have never had a student in my Algebra I geometry or Algebra II classes, or there would have been two or three maybe in each class. But we as a state said those are skills that are required for every student and they're needed skills for every student. That's what we said about the CS in 2021. That's what we said about it again in 2023.
Representative Meeks brought up a question about what skills are taught in this, and he knows computer science probably better than I do. But I will say that the issue with the high school computer science class is not about just learning to use technology, okay? It is not about just learning to use the technology. You know, kids know. We see five-year-olds walking around with phones, and they can use them. We agree with that. It is about understanding how this technology works,
how the systems feed information sometimes to the older kids that maybe we don't want them in echo chambers, And more importantly, how can they become producers with this vast technology? This phone has more power in it than what we sent men to the moon with. Think about it. If we redirect students' activities away from being just strictly consumers to being producers with technology, of what entrepreneurs we can have out of Arkansas.
So I agree, Representative Meeks, with your statement on that. I also want to say there was a statement made right that, I wrote it down, right now there are students getting certificates of graduation because of this requirement. I don't know how that's possible because it applies to this year's current 11th grade class. So I'll just leave that there. I also want to address some issues that were stated about the number of teachers certified.
Yes, there are roughly 450 teachers who have passed the CS praxis, but there are additional 450 to 500 teachers who have received an alternative certification pathway. And I want to read. I brought this today. This is the engrossed version of the 2023 bill. Senate Bill 470 was the one that was passed by Senator Dotson. And if you flip to the, I'm trying to find it here where it says,
but basically the bill stated that the department would look for flexibility in teacher certification, including alternative ways to certification. So what we did in my office was we developed training that would train these high school teachers. If they went through that training, then they got a temporary approval code or an approval code to teach the high school CS courses. That's where that additional 450 or so that equals that 900.
So they are certified, they are approved to teach, they have received training. There are over 900 teachers certified to teach high school CS in Arkansas. There are not 1,000 high schools in Arkansas. There are 1,000 schools in Arkansas, right? So we have over 900 teachers to teach in how many of our high schools there are. We're roughly 365 districts, if I remember the number count. It's probably changed since I last knew.
This is a step back. It will be a step back for Arkansas. It will be a step back for Arkansas educationally, economically, and just honestly for what we're doing that is right for our students when they graduate. way. There will be access removed for students. We see that over and over again in states that don't have the grad requirement. There was a lot made about these three CTE pathways, but what was never asked and never stated was, do one of those three CTE pathways have to have
CS in it? The other thing I want to point to is this legislation, again, from 2023. This bill is a CS grad requirement repeal bill. All the other language in it, all the talk about CTE infusion and wanting to build up CTE is just superfluous because this 2023 legislation already did that. In fact, I will mention that the department might want to go back and look at their 2025 courses that they just approved
Because within this legislation, one particular provision that y'all approved and adopted was that there has to be at least four courses identified that a student can take to meet the CS requirement in eighth grade. I don't know that the new 2025 courses that come online next year do that. We definitely did that before I left with the 27 state design courses that we developed. This seems to me, and I'm happy to take a lot of questions, take questions on this, on any of this.
But this seems to me that there has been a conscientious effort to try to roll back what was done in the previous administration. The reduction in course availability for students with the 2025, the removal, y'all heard it from the department yourselves, that this body in 2023, they fought for the removal that every student or every school has to have a certified CS teacher. We understood that. We didn't fight it because we made sure there were virtual Arkansas, but now that's being used as an argument to repeal this graduation requirement that we don't have teachers.
So, I want to just emphasize over and over again, this is a step back. There was a statement made about ASMSA and congratulating them on how wonderful they are and they're offering to train teachers and offering their courses to students. Do y'all know what the first school in Arkansas to require CS was? ASMSA, they've required it since they opened every student to take computer science since they opened at least one course.
Okay, so if we're going to hold them up as the gold standard, then that is the gold standard. I've got a lot more notes, but I think at this point, we've got some other testifiers. Mark Barnes, who was in the department also and wrote the Alternative Pathway Standards, will be testifying. My wife came with me. She's actually a certified CS teacher. She teaches at the elementary school, but she's certified at a high school level.
Speaker 191
1:03:25
And I believe there are some other testifiers that I think will be able to answer a lot of good questions for y'all also.
Are you willing to take questions, Ms. Rowan? I am happy to take questions. Representative
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
1:03:40
Meeks, I believe you have a question to recognize. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So I guess my question for you is, and of course I was part of the legislation to support this, to help make this happen, and I haven't been a supporter of it ever since. But I also believe in the importance of making education practical, practical application. My maybe concern, like I'd mentioned it before, if we're making a student who, you know,
maybe they're going to be a diesel mechanic or going to be a farmer, is it productive for them to spend, you know, half a year learning how to code computers? Now, I'm not saying they shouldn't learn, you know, and understand, okay, some coding. But is it worth it to spend half a year or whatever it is when that time could be maybe better sent using or learning computer skills that would be conducive to what they are going to do?
You know, I was in college. They made me take, I don't know, a drafting class. in technology. I have never used it before. I don't know that I gained anything from it. I had calculus courses in high school, so there wasn't any critical thinking skills. It was almost worthless for me to take it, whereas if I could have done something different, it could have been more beneficial to me. And so I guess that's where I'm kind of struggling with it, because I definitely see the issue that Representative Woolworth to bring up.
I've heard the concern from my own school district that by forcing this, that it's creating problems. So I do want to create flexibility. Like I said, I think with Representative Mayberry's bill requiring the digital literacy, that helps me get a little more comfortable with it. And I'm just wondering what kind of response you might have to kind of the points I've brought up. Sure. Thank
Speaker 192
1:05:46
you. And I greatly appreciate the question. I agree wholeheartedly with you.
Diesel mechanics, I invite you to go to diesel mechanics and see if they're not using computers and computer systems that actually require some interfacing with them in a way to create outcomes that they need, which is what computer science is. This is already built into CTE based on that 2023 legislation. What was added was a computer science or a computer science. This is the added part. or computer science-related career and technical education course. And then further down, it said under subsection 4,
the Division of Career and Technical Education within the Department of Education shall work with the Arkansas Computer Science Initiative within the Department of Education to establish by rule the minimum criteria which a career and technical education course may be approved as a computer science-related career and technical education course. So it is already allowed to be infused in CTE, And if you go to the department's website right now that has the courses on it and you look at the top, they have the list of their new courses that come online in July,
including the Introduction to Computer Science course that's been talked about. Those are all branded under the CTE brand. So this idea that CS is not infused in CTE, I don't even know where that's coming from because on their own website, every one of their new courses that come online in July are already branded under CTE. The idea that this is coding only is a misnomer. This is not just coding. These are so many more skills that go along with using technology in a way that is safe but productive,
not just technology from a consumer standpoint. Okay, so
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
1:07:29
it's your testimony that the CTE aspect, a student could go down the CTE pathway and meet the computer science credit without actually being in an intro to computer class because of it being embedded in those CTE courses. That is what y'all required in 2023 legislation. Okay. And
Speaker 196
1:07:44
then I had another question, and I just spaced
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
1:07:47
it off. I'll see if anybody else has any questions in the queue, and then if I remember it, I'll jump back in.
Representative Stetson Painter
Unverified
1:07:59
Representative Painter, you're recognized. Mr. Chair, I'd like to make a motion. Due to the late hour of the day and many more bills still on the calendar, I'd like to make a motion to limiting 10 minutes for both sides, for and against. We have already hashed some of this out before, and it's getting late in the day, colleagues, and we've still got plenty of deals to go through. So I would respectfully make
that motion and ask for a good vote. So let me clarify your motion. Is it 10 minutes remaining on both sides total?
Correct. Okay. That's a non-debatable motion. All in favor say aye. Aye. okay all opposed congratulations your motion carries uh so members uh i guess we are currently in the four side of the motion let me let me clarify with staff here i'm sorry we only have against i apologize so um we will go ahead and start the timer we've got three more people signed up uh if mr owen if you'd like to take additional questions then uh we will i'm do that however we've
got three more people signed up. The way that I understand the motion, I believe that the clock is about to start ticking. So we will go ahead and take 10 additional minutes. If you'd like to take questions, then I'm happy to have you answer questions. But we also have three other people signed up. Representative Garner. Thank you. Usually questions
Representative Denise Garner
Unverified
1:09:22
don't count in the timing. Are we counting questions in the time limit? That's a good question. Let me clarify.
So, we will go ahead and include those questions in the timing, because I agree with Representative Painter that we have certainly seen all sides of
this, I think, pretty passionately. So, we'll go and allow 10 more minutes of discussion on the against side. If there's any on the for side, then we would certainly allow that as well. Representative Gardner, if you'd like to ask questions, if Mr. Owen would like to answer, then certainly recognize. Next up, we have
Mr. Randy Zook. We have one question. Sorry, we do have a question. I apologize. You're recognized.
Representative Justin Gonzales
Unverified
1:10:05
Okay, I just wanted to make sure that I'm understanding this correctly. You mentioned in the bill of 2023 related to the computer science requirement that if a student takes a CTE course.
Speaker 196
1:10:29
The bill language that changed the graduation requirement
Speaker 192
1:10:33
in 2023 specifically stated that what was required was a computer science, the addition was,
or a computer science-related career and technical education course. So this provision for CTE is
Representative Justin Gonzales
Unverified
1:10:47
already allowed. Okay, so that means that if I could take any of the CTE pathways, That the department has determined is
Speaker 192
1:10:59
a CS-related course. That is a CS-related
Representative Justin Gonzales
Unverified
1:11:02
course that would meet my interest level. Correct. I could take that and fulfill my graduation requirement.
Speaker 207
1:11:11
Correct. That's why this is just a repeal bill. All the CTE stuff is just added to try to hide the repeal. Thank
Representative Justin Gonzales
Unverified
1:11:17
you. That clarifies things for me. Thank you. Thank you all.
Next up is Randy Zook. Mr. Zook, if you would please introduce yourself. who you're with and you're recognized.
Speaker 208
1:11:47
Randy Zook, Arkansas State Chamber of Commerce. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee.
Speaker 209
1:11:53
My comments will be really brief. On behalf of our members, businesses, employers across the state who have unmet needs for talent and workforce standards, or kids that are prepared to do work that's available today, this is two steps backwards.
reading, writing, arithmetic, and computer science. Numeracy and literacy and computer science along with a clearly defined set of durable skills like communication ability, understanding how to present yourself, how to cooperate, how to communicate with other kids and other people. Those are the things that the workforce demands today, and Arkansas has been blazing a path of leadership for several years now
in this field of computer science. I know it's probably tough. Acquiring skills for any new technology, any fundamental technology, is tough. We've got generative artificial intelligence coming at us like a freight train, and we have no idea what it's going to demand of kids five years from now, much less 10 or 20 years from now. If these kids, every kid in every working role is going to be required to be competent
and to understand how to use this technology and to back up because it's tough is just really discouraging. I urge you to let this bill go and stick to the course and stick to preparing kids for a future that's just about an hour and a half in front of them. It's not down the road by five years. It's here, and we've got to get these kids ready to do it. You know, in a pilot language, I've got a lot more runway behind me than I do in front of me.
So this is not about me. This is about my grandkids. So I need you to do that. Hope you do. Urge you to. Other questions for
Representative Steven Walker
Unverified
1:14:10
Mr. Zook? Representative Walker, did you have a question? Yes, I'll make it quick, and hopefully this hasn't already been asked and answered. If it has, I've missed it. But so our state is, from my understanding, leading in computer science. And we've been doing computer science, I don't know, was it 2014? It's been a long time since we've been doing it and making it a requirement.
So we should know the answer by now. So whether it's you or the bill's sponsoring closing, I would like to know how many kids, percentage-wise, graduate each year, go into a computer science field, and make an impact out there in the industry. Do we have any of that kind of data? I don't have a clue because I think
Speaker 209
1:14:55
the kids going into the field as a specialty would be going probably from a college program. Okay.
But the kids coming out of high school, every one of them is going to be using this technology. Not a few. If you're in a McDonald's, you're going to be cooperating with a robot and you're going to be operating with artificial intelligence-controlled machines. You need a sense of understanding how all that operates. You don't have to be able to code it, I don't think. But that's just an old guy. But you better well know how these things relate to each other and how they function.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Are you the additional question for Mr. Zook? Thank you, Mr. Zook. Appreciate your time. Thank
you. Next up, we have Mr. Mark Barnes. Mr. Barnes, if you would please introduce yourself for the record.
Mark Barnes
Unverified
1:15:54
You're recognized. We're down to four minutes and 12 seconds. Thank you, committee. My name is Mark Barnes. I'm a software engineer at Code.org, and I'm also the co-founder and vice chair of CS Access, which is a national organization dedicated to improving accessibility in computer science education. I have a few prepared statements I'd like to read.
First of all, I want to address the concern that maintaining Arkansas's current computer science graduation requirement would be bad for students with disabilities who may be unable to meet the requirement. First, we need to clarify that disability is a broad category that encompasses a range of physical, mental, and emotional differences. Any blanket statement about students with disabilities will be inherently inaccurate. Let's talk about some specifics. So first of all, we've heard about the alternative standards. That is something that I helped to write along with a team of experts.
We had classroom special education teachers. We had a special education consultant and an assistive technology specialist from Easterseals. And we did this also in consultation with the special education department within the Department of Education. These standards were adopted in 2022. They are part of the alternate pathways. And as you've heard, students who fall under the category of having severe cognitive disabilities are allowed to use those standards instead of the current computer science standards in order to graduate with a diploma.
Now, as for the other students, any other student who has a disability as defined by the ADA will have an IEP that defines the accommodations and the support that they will receive from their school. And I will say from my experience, I worked very closely and I continue to work in a personal capacity with Arkansas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired and with Arkansas School for the Deaf right down the road. You guys want to see some students with disabilities who are doing computer science, I would invite you to go visit those schools.
Lori Cole, who's the current principal at Arkansas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired, is a fantastic advocate for computer science. She built their program, and that program has inspired students. It has empowered students. There's one student in particular named Bryson, who is a junior now. I started working with him when he was in eighth grade. He is going into cybersecurity. He would not have been able to do this if it wasn't for our computer science initiative and the mandate. His school wouldn't have adopted this. They had to be pushed in order to do this.
When they got that push, their superintendents were able to get people in place, get teachers in place who were able to teach them. And as we've heard before already from other people, if we don't have this mandate, there are schools that either, for multiple reasons, won't do this. I grew up in a place where I did not have the opportunity until I was an adult to pursue computer science. I wonder sometimes how my life would be different if I had had that opportunity when I was younger. I think that this is an important opportunity.
I think that any student, regardless of their ability, is going to have opportunities and they are going to be empowered if they continue to have access to computer science education the way that we have it now in our state. About 45 seconds left. Other questions
for Mr. Barnes? Seeing no questions, thank you for your time. Thank you. We do not have anyone else sign up to speak against. Would anyone like to speak for the bill for 10 minutes?
That's the motion that Representative Panter made, so we're going to honor the motion. Seeing no one signed up to
Speaker 145
1:19:39
speak for the bill, Representative Wooldridge, you're recognized to close for
Representative Jeremy Wooldridge
Unverified
1:19:47
your bill. thank you mr chairman thank you committee um i do appreciate you hearing this out this is an important bill to my district it's important to me um you know i i appreciate i think that mr owens and i are friends mr zook and i are friends we can just agree to disagree civilly and and see things differently on this issue we both come from different parts of the state
we don't have a mcdonald's in marmaduke and it sure doesn't have a robot lot. But I understand the point that he's trying to make, and I'm in no way trying to diminish the need for these type programs as we move forward. What I'm asking you to do is what we have historically done since I've been in this body, and that's allow local school districts, local communities, folks that are closest to the students to make the decision that's right for them. We and trust the Department of Ed to make these decisions on what's a graduation standard,
what's a graduation requirement. The Department of Ed supports this bill. We passed a robust education reform led by the governor's office. The governor's office supports this bill. You've heard enough from me. I do want to read a little bit of what I received the other day on this, and I think that it kind of makes the point that I'm trying to make, and it just says, I'm going to paraphrase a little bit to the point I want to read to, but it's from a computer science teacher that's been teaching for 19 years who obtained their credentialing in computer science courses before it was required by the state of Arkansas. Teaching computer science as
an elective course was a rewarding experience. I enjoyed challenging my students, myself, and the content. I saw significant growth in the students who chose to enroll in this course. Many students went on to pursue degrees and careers in various fields of computer science. For the first five years, I taught computer science at a school that required all students to take as a graduation requirement. Under this system, students who have developed an interest in the course, had students who could have developed an interest in the course, had they been given the option,
now view it as a requirement that they begrudge. As a teacher with experience in both elective and mandated computer science courses, I strongly support the efforts of this bill. I recognize the value of the content and what it provides to many students and firmly believe it should remain an option in every high school in Arkansas. However, the mandate and graduation requirement, both locally and at the state level, has significantly diminished student interest and performance. To accommodate the disinterest and unmotivated students, I've been forced
to find ways or try to find ways to simplify the curriculum, which has a detrimental impact on the students who have an eager and deep desire and drive for the material. Ladies and gentlemen, all I'm asking you to do is allow your school districts to make a decision. That comes from a computer science teacher. Again, I'm not an educator. I have two little boys that are enrolled in the public school system and will graduate from the public school system. I in no way want to set it or the state of Arkansas back. I ran for the legislature to make sure that those two boys
have the ability to live here, to raise a family here, get a good-paying job here. I don't want them to have to choose to live in a different state. I'm not here to try to set us backwards. We could require some other thing as a graduation requirement that no other state in the nation has, and we would be leading in that area. But if it's not producing the outcomes that originally we thought that it would, we've had now multiple attempts to walk this back to some extent. I think that speaks from itself. Multiple legislators have brought this issue before you because we're hearing from our school districts that changes need to be made.
All I'm asking you to do is embed this where it's tailored and narrowly focused into CTE pathways. We amended that to make it to where it is required to be specifically embedded into every pathway, and the rest of those students would have it as an option. So maybe we can re-spark some of that interest and desire with that. Mr. Chairman, I'm closed, and I would appreciate a good motion and a good vote. Representative Wolgers has closed
for his bill. What is the will of the committee? We have a motion do pass as amended. Is there discussion on that motion?
Representative Stetson Painter
Unverified
1:24:04
Representative Painter, you're recognized for discussion on the motion. Colleagues, I get the heartburn over this. I'm not surprised.
I'm for this bill, allowing my rural school districts to have the flexibility. You know, some of us have complained about mandating certain things in this committee. about we need to have our schools to have the flexibility to do this and that. This is exactly what this bill does. So just reminding, we had gripes about different bills that have come through the committee
about mandating these things and saying, you know what, our schools need to be able to do this. That's what we're doing in this bill. I appreciate a good vote,
and thank you, Representative Woolridge, for the
Representative Wade Andrews
Unverified
1:24:54
bill. Representative Andrews, you're recognized for discussion. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Colleagues, we live
in a world where Arkansas students are competing not only with their neighbors in the south, the northeast, the west, but with different states, different countries.
Technology is an ever-evolving thing, and we need students that are well-rounded. And taking away computer science classes, I think, would hinder their success and their future. Um, to quote a former late president, President Kennedy once said in a speech when he was talking about sending, um, astronauts and technology to the moon, he said, we do these things not because they're easy, but because they are hard. If we stop doing the things that are challenging
and give up on the things that are difficult, how are we ever going to grow and, and become better as people and society. I see this as taking a step backwards, and I mean this is no disrespect to you, Representative Uldridge. I do respect you, and I admire you for standing up for your community, but I'm a no on this bill because I believe that this is a very important topic to teach
because computer science is in every aspect. It is in our culture. It is in science. It is in every part of business. You know, I have a small part-time auction business, and 90% of my auction business I run from my cell phone. And I think we need, as a society, to be better able to understand technology and work with it and change it and fix it when it addresses our needs.
And so for that reason, I'm
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
1:26:55
against this bill. Representative Beck, you're recognized for discussion. Thank you,
Mr. Chair. Again, problem with technology. What is this about? I have some concerns because we say computer science. Computer science is everywhere. And I agree with that statement. But computer science is not one thing.
This is computer science and all the rest of it is not. There's a lot of different aspects of computer science. And computer science, you know, if I'm going to do data processing, computer science is a whole different thing as it is than it would be if I was trying to crunch numbers with some type of a program. It's different types of computers. If I'm an electrician, I would probably use computer science in a slightly different way than a machinist might possibly use on a CNC machine. There's a lot of different computer science, things that can apply for computer science.
So I think we can get trapped into that. I do believe that computer science, if you use the broader term, there's that in every avenue that you go into. However, a student, I feel that students have a natural bent towards what they want to do. Electricians, plumbers, some people want to be their own, operate their own businesses.
All of these are important things, but the way they would interface with computers would be different. It would be a different program. It would be a totally different thing. So my emphasis is this. I think we're taking the harder path if we don't do this because what's going to happen is we're going to be trying to get more and more of these computer science classes that are related to the fields that these students would possibly use later on. The fact of the matter is it's true that most students are not going to end up in a four-year degree program.
Most of them are going to end up leaving the high school and going into some type of profession. So why wouldn't we, while we have them there, teach them the computer that relates to the interest that they have, whatever that interest may be? And I think that's hard. It's going to be really hard to do. But that's the right thing to do. That's the right thing to do. And as opposed to sticking someone in front of a computer and saying, you know, I remember when I was in computer science, a major that came out with this,
teachers had to have a computer science class. And I can tell you exactly what it was. It was 10 pieces of data that you strung together, and you put them in alphabetical order. And if you're really good, you could do it by alphabetical order, by their last name or their first name or their address or something like that, and then you printed it out. That was it. Now, as a computer science major, there was no shortage of teachers that came up to the computer science majors in the university and said, you know, you know how to write this little program?
It's like, yeah, it's pretty easy. And that was a good case of where you were pushing computer science onto someone, and it was having a total different effect. It was just something that they weren't going to apply with what they were doing. So why wouldn't we push computer science or offer, I shouldn't say push, but offer computer science on a basis where the student already has a natural interest towards that thing. And then show them how computer science is going to help them.
So I'm going to be a yes on this because I really feel that's very important that we prepare our students for their next step. and the majority of them are going to go into a career, and we need to offer them a computer science class that matches their interest into that new career. Thank you. Representative Meeks, you're recognized for discussion on the motion. Thank you,
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
1:30:56
Mr. Chairman. And I've struggled on both sides of this because I think there's good points on both sides. There's great arguments to be made on both sides of this issue.
And so, I don't know, maybe depending on how Representative Beck looks at me, You may determine how I vote here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I do want to address something that Mr. Zook said, and I don't always agree with the Chamber, but we are on the verge of a fundamental shift in society, and I don't think most people realize the shift that we're looking at. As I, you know, mentioned in committee, kind of jokingly, with Representative Cozart running his construction business,
In 20 years, he's probably not going to be running a crew of humans. It's going to be a crew of robots that are going to be doing that work. All the studies that I have seen have indicated that 50% or more of today's jobs are going to be gone in the next 10 to 15 years because of humanoid robots and artificial intelligence. A lot of the trades, manufacturing, all that stuff is going to be gone. And so I see the need for the flexibility, but I also understand if we don't prepare our students in Arkansas for this,
probably one of the most fundamental shifts in the history of humanity, I don't know if I'd want to be a legislator trying to deal with those issues when that occurs. So I guess all that to say, I do think we need some flexibility. I don't disagree with that. My concern
is this is maybe too much too soon. I mean, if we went the opposite way, and we were trying to outlaw all computers in schools,
there is no way, even if we outlawed it, that we would be outlawing all computers. Computers are in schools. They're going to be in schools. I have no doubt that that's going to take place. My concern is that this may be too big of an ask too soon. maybe is the best way to put it. So I'll listen to the other discussion. Maybe someone will sway me
one way or the other going forward, but I appreciate it.
Representative Gonzalez-Worling, you recognize for discussion the
Representative Justin Gonzales
Unverified
1:33:23
motion. Yes. I think a couple of things that stood out in all of the discussion, and first of all, Representative Woolridge, thank you. Thank you for bringing this bill. I think this is the most discussion since I've been here as a new legislator that we've had. Um, thank you. Um, and that is the flexibility, the, the options. And it seems to me that it has in the 2023, uh, law, um, the CTE embedded courses that there's computer science
already embedded in those CTE courses. So, so that meets that computer science requirement, You know, so long as the department has approved it, and there are 55 different types of courses one can take. So I think that flexibility, it's already there. So that's number one. And then number two, I think Mr. Zook, when he mentioned that this would take us two steps backwards, that's tough. Okay, that's tough. And I just cannot see that, especially looking to the future.
And so I'm going to be a no on this, and those are my two reasons. Thank you. Representative Garner, did you
have discussion? Is there additional discussion by the committee on the motion? Seeing no additional discussion, we have a motion on
the table of do pass HB 1825 as amended. All in favor, say aye. Aye. All opposed, say no. No. The noes have it. I'm sorry, Representative Wolter, your bill has failed. Committee, we will now move on without objection to House Bill 1977.
I'm sorry, no, 1933. I apologize. I got my numbers wrong. We do have an amendment on this one. Representative McCollum, staff will pass the amendment out. 1933. Wow. Yeah, would you say it on the microphone so the public can hear that?
Representative Austin McCollum
Unverified
1:35:53
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, committee. The bill that we're discussing today, hopefully voting on is HB 1933. You'll see an
Representative Lincoln Barnett
Unverified
1:35:59
amendment being passed out. I'll go ahead and make a motion to adopt the amendment, please. We have
Representative Austin McCollum
Unverified
1:36:05
a motion to adopt the amendment. Is there
questions? Are there discussion on the motion? See no discussion. All in favor say aye. All
opposed, congratulations. You've adopted the amendment. Now you're recognized.
Speaker 140
1:36:16
Thank you, Mr. Chair. HB 1933 as amended. Thank you, committee. So, you know,
Representative Austin McCollum
Unverified
1:36:20
just in case you're wanting enough, and you can
seat in front of you. A few of the amendments are errors on my part, so I wanted to make that clear. And then for those that haven't looked at it in its entirety, we're talking about
Representative Lincoln Barnett
Unverified
1:36:40
school board recalls today. For me and, you know, why I wanted to take a look at this more, and obviously these There are important positions that get to vote over large numbers that impact our communities as well as our students.
I'm coming at it from a standpoint of consistency when I think about, you know, other local elections that take place. Maybe mayors, city council members, other local officials, they can all be recalled. I'm not entirely sure about, you know, the history of when that happened or why some have been able to be recalled and not school board members, but I believe they should be held to the same standard across the board. So the recall process, you know, itself and kind of what the bill does, it's a mechanism to attempt to hold folks accountable.
Maybe one way of looking at it is, I don't know how often y'all, since y'all have been legislators here, you know, conversations about term limits. I know we had some stuff on the floor on the issue on that. I mean, to me, this is a way to engage on that issue without a true term limit. It just gives the ability to your constituents to hold folks accountable. So maybe a few other notes to make, kind of like the safeguards in place that are in here. The bill would require a higher threshold, 35% of eligible voters signing a petition
before a recall election could even take place. So the idea there is to prevent abuse, have a significant threshold. It limits the recall petitions to one per elected term. The idea there being balancing the stability and leadership with voter accountability. Finally, the recall election aligns with the next school board election. So the idea there is preventing unnecessary special elections or costs.
I would go ahead and, you know, ask any questions, but I think there's probably some valuable perspective that could be brought with your permission, Chair. I might ask Gary Newton if he's interested in coming up here. Do you
Representative Austin McCollum
Unverified
1:38:59
have any value, you want a perspective you think I didn't hit on on this? Mr.
Newton, if you would. Yeah. Mr. Newton, if you would please introduce
Representative Lincoln Barnett
Unverified
1:39:10
yourself for the record, and you're recognized. You speak on any way that you'd like to speak. What I think would be valuable for the committee to hear is maybe from your observation over the years
compared to other local elected positions, their ability to recall, and maybe the need for this specifically with school boards. Gary Newton with Arkansas Learns.
Speaker 238
1:39:33
Our friends at Opportunity Arkansas were also involved with this bill. Ironically, the
Gary Newton
Unverified
1:39:38
first time I ever sat at the end of this table was about 15 years ago on a recall bill for school board elections.
The notion was not to recall, not the notion of removing people from boards, but rather to elevate these positions to the importance that they have in communities. It was 1724 that passed the Senate today. We're finally holding school board elections when people actually vote. And these are the largest and richest local governments in Arkansas. And they're the most important local officials when it comes to the future of respective communities.
So the idea is to elevate these positions in the same way that we have other local officials. so it's it sounds punitive on the front end it's a way to remove elected officials but i i also subscribe to what representative mccullum said uh it it does take away the need for term limits the term the people and the people's decisions should determine terms and how they are to be represented so with
Speaker 242
1:40:55
that i i offered very little other perspective than what you have but it um
Thank you for the opportunity. Representative Meach, you're
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
1:41:11
recognized for a question for Representative McCullough. Thank you. So
two questions. First one is a logistics one. I think we just passed a bill through here that would move the school board elections to every other year, and I think that's the one you were referencing. And so under this legislation, if a recall takes place, that slot would not be filled until the next election.
So we could potentially be going a year, year and a half without that school board position being filled. Am I got that correct or am I
Gary Newton
Unverified
1:41:43
missing something? You're missing the appointment. There are provisions in the code for filling vacancies, and it would be an appointed position to serve until the next election. But just because the actual election for recall would have to take place in a school board election.
Speaker 245
1:41:59
Okay. Who does the vacancy? The board.
Gary Newton
Unverified
1:42:04
The board, and if the board doesn't act by a certain period of time, and this isn't new, this is currently a code, then it falls
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
1:42:13
to the quorum court. Okay. So the other school board members would choose their... The remaining members. The remaining members. If they don't do
it, then the quorum court would do it. Which is correct. And so I guess my overall concern here with the bill is this, and you know this from being a lawmaker. Our school boards, they deal with some pretty tough issues, right?
And kind of the one that kind of springs to the front of my mind was the bathroom issue in Conway where they were trying to keep, you know, girls' and girls' bathrooms, boys' and boys' bathrooms. And one of the provisions in here that would allow for a recall would be a moral failing or the loss of a public trust. So, you know, a school board member could be put in one of these, you know, they're making a real tough decision.
And now if they could potentially be put in a place where if I make the tough call, which we've got to do that sometimes in our positions, the unpopular call, which is the right one, then I'm putting my position in jeopardy. Because if I make that tough call that's not always popular, then all of a sudden I might get recalled. And do we want our school board members to be in fear of making that tough call
and not have the strength to make that tough call because we've put this
Representative Lincoln Barnett
Unverified
1:43:44
provision in here? I think my answer is no, I don't want anyone to be in fear. I would like them to act on their convictions. I mean, of course, any elected individual would want to pay attention to the feelings of whatever constituency that they represent. I guess my hope would be we would elect people who have convictions that are able to communicate that back. But I mean, I think I do see your point, and maybe you're, so you're talking about in real time
having the threat of, or I guess the perception of, hey, any given vote could cause a recall. You think that would affect maybe the behavior of the individual that's in that position? I guess I would feel I don't necessarily see that any different than what is currently the case with individuals that, I mean, maybe the sense of urgency behind a potential recall. But I do think that's why we put those thresholds. It would have to be a pretty high percentage, a significant percentage enough for this to happen. So it would
have to be something that the public is really seriously interested to even be eligible to get this going in the first place. And then
Gary Newton
Unverified
1:44:53
there would have to be the election. So it's important to point out as well, the with the moving to the preferential primary for these elections, It's no longer dozens of people deciding school board races. It's going to be thousands. It's going to set records, and it already has by having even-year elections. The other thing is with the advent of uniform four- and six-year terms
and the prescription that only one time could somebody feel that threat in their term. And
Speaker 248
1:45:25
I'd also say that was kind of my point. I'm pointing back to the consistency. Like, I
Representative Lincoln Barnett
Unverified
1:45:31
do get that it's a change from the status quo, but what it would go to if, you know, the body decides this is a good idea, that is the current way of thinking for these other local elected officials. So to play out, I guess, your logic, I guess that would invite the fact to say that, you know, mayors and other
individuals would be voting just because they're afraid of maybe taking a hard issue, which I don't think
Speaker 252
1:45:56
that's necessarily the case. Okay. And then final, just as a, is
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
1:46:00
the verification. So the petitions have all been signed. Is it the county clerk center responsible for verifying all the petition, make sure that they've actually met that threshold for the recall? Up to county clerk. Is that your question? Right, right. Who's responsible for making sure that everyone signed the petitions according to the rules? County clerk's office. County
Gary Newton
Unverified
1:46:20
clerk's office. Okay. Yes, sir. And that
language, including the language you referenced before, was taken from the other part
Speaker 238
1:46:26
of the code with those other elected offices. So it wasn't original language. It was mirroring. Following that mirror. Okay. All right. Thank you.
Representative Lincoln Barnett
Unverified
1:46:39
Representative Barnett, you're recognized for a question. Yes. I had a question, and I think I've somewhat found the answer to it, but I'm still going to ask just because of Representative Meek's last question.
On page 2, lines 4 and 5, it lists the following reasons that a school board member could be subject to recall. And I know you mentioned the fact that mayors and other government positions are subject to recall. If I'm not mistaken, I don't think it lists that there has to be a reason when those other officials are, um, subject to recall.
And so I kind of wonder about this language being included in this bill, even though it does say including without limitation, but it implies that there has to be, I guess, quote unquote, an official reason that is put out there. And the mayoral recalls that I have seen take place, it's not necessarily that they've communicated a reason.
It's, of course, them meeting that threshold with the required number of petition signers for it. That's always been a thing that those officials that have been recalled have argued is, oh, well, they haven't listed or said a reason behind it. But it's my understanding that those laws do not require for that. And so I just don't know if by putting this in here, you might be putting yourself in a box.
I know that Representative Meek's question asked about a moral failing, but in here it says a moral failing leading to pending criminal charges. So a school board member may have some other moral failing that is a disgrace to the school district, but it doesn't necessarily dictate leading to criminal charges. And community members may be upset enough to want to have that person removed. with this language, limit them from being able to do that
if that moral failing doesn't result to pending charges. Yeah, I mean, I
think you maybe even mentioned part of my answer in your question. I think the key there is the including without limitation part, that being permissive in its nature. What I think I heard you say maybe in your first part of your question and was maybe comparing it to some of the other elections, and, you know, is there any difference between this type of -- Male Speaker: Yeah, I just
Representative Lincoln Barnett
Unverified
1:49:44
I'm sorry, I just wondered whether or not by having that language in there, would you somewhat be limiting yourself? And I get the words, you know, including without limitation is in there, but it also -- the way it is written implies that there has to be a state you know, reason.
Yeah, I don't read it that way. I do think it's permissive in nature, you know, in terms of like the moral failing leading to pending criminal charges and the loss of public trust. I mean, I viewed that as more boilerplate language, but I mean,
Representative Austin McCollum
Unverified
1:50:18
I don't have the language in front of
Representative Lincoln Barnett
Unverified
1:50:23
me compared to, you know, some of the other positions that we mentioned and why
Chair
Unverified
1:50:36
there would be a recall. There are additional questions
Representative Jessie McGruder
Unverified
1:50:43
by the committee? Representative McGruder, you recognize? Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for the work that you all have done in regards to this bill. My concern is in regards to the elected officials that you previously named,
as far as quorum court, mayors, and all those elected officials are compensated for their services. And school board members are not compensated. And I can understand recalling those others because they are paid positions, but in this position it's not. So I do think there's got to be a special place for school board members. Where it is, I don't know.
But the reason behind recalling people who aren't paid for the position is because it's basically volunteer work. Yeah, I hear you comparing
Representative Lincoln Barnett
Unverified
1:51:37
unpaid versus unpaid, so maybe it's not apples to apples in that regard. When I mentioned some of the other elected positions, I guess my comparison is more on the type of issues that we're voting on and how they impact the taxpayer and just the true volume in dollars that these individuals get to vote on
and the impact on students' lives. I mean, I see the pay issue as completely separate, and, like, I'm just bringing it back to the important decisions and why we would want public trust, and so that's why I was trying to compare it.
Representative Austin McCollum
Unverified
1:52:12
But I do see your point on some differences there. Erson
Representative Steven Walker
Unverified
1:52:24
Walker, you're recognized for a question. so with the recall process and it kind of goes to representative piggybacking off of representative
meeks um the loss of public trust is i mean it's very vague and when you have a recall election usually a cost falls upon the district and possibly the county to cover the cost of a new election and everything along that line um do we know what this will cost our districts let's just say there's a group out there that gets mad because their kid didn't start for the basketball team and we lose the public trust and file a petition and go around and we bring it to a ballot um what are
what will the cost be to our school districts or counties whoever has to bear it um each time that recall happens. I guess on the first
Representative Lincoln Barnett
Unverified
1:53:14
part on the on the I think would you what link were you still on page two line four and five before I get to the cost? Yes over the loss of public trust. I guess on that point in itself again I want to like the words on the paper do have meaning and that is permissive language it doesn't have to be specific to that but I think your point in bringing that up
is comparing it to, um, potential costs. So, one of the safeguards we attempted to put in the bill on that is that it aligns with the next school board election. So, the idea would be that it would prevent that unnecessary special election and costs associated with that. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Representative Beck, you recognize.
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
1:54:06
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I do like this. I'm one of these people who thinks that our school
boards are probably one of the most, much more important than people think they are. If they're a non-functioning or rubber-stamped school board, then the school suffers from that. So I think that this will do a good job of doing that.
My concern, though, with it is this, of keeping people accountable, do a good job of keeping people accountable when they're on the school board. My concern is, you know, there's, and maybe that goes away, but I see it maybe as going the opposite direction that we want. There's not a long line of people who
sign up for school board elections. And now they're going to be with the other elections, which is going to make it a little bit
more difficult. Yeah, I just worry about, you know, we end up having vacancies on school boards.
I'm going to support the bill, but
I just want to bring that point forward, is that it's not like there's a long line of people signing up for this, as it is right now. And the election process that we're working on right now is making it harder. It's going to be a harder
Representative Lincoln Barnett
Unverified
1:55:30
election, so would you agree? I appreciate the concern. I'd say I appreciate where you're coming from, how thoughtful you're being on the issue and what the impacts would be. If I just kind of play the logic out, let's say
this becomes law, and to your point, maybe in some areas it's difficult to find folks that maybe want to step up and serve. I don't know that this would change that. Maybe the hope would be is if the constituency sees that there's a place for them to pay attention more because they can have potentially the opportunity to get more buy-in from their school board member, or maybe the school board member just said, well, now I need to communicate even more
about the decisions I'm making to make sure they know what it is that I'm doing. Hopefully, if it's a good actor, that brings more confidence in that person and more community buy-in. But yeah, I mean, if it's a bad actor, Um, I think the hope is that actually it would motivate people who are that much more interested in
Speaker 242
1:56:39
public service to be running. Yeah, anything else on that? Yes. The, the idea of
Gary Newton
Unverified
1:56:44
elevating these, they're in representative Magruder didn't say this, but it is volunteer service,
but it's not community service. These are elected official officials of the largest and richest local governments in the state and it's time we considered them at that level and that doesn't mean again that we're I doubt that this will be used very often quite frankly because the process would be an election during a school board election to have a recall and then you couldn't have the election to fill that spot until later so it wouldn't be concurrent it would be it's a
it's a high threshold for everybody, but it really elevates these positions to the importance that they have. And, uh, he raised an issue of not being paid. That is something that should be contemplated.
Representative Lincoln Barnett
Unverified
1:57:36
I don't disagree with you. I wasn't trying to brush off your concern agreement earlier when I said it's separate. I was basically saying noted. Maybe that needs to be considered as well. Um, so anyways, kind of back to, uh, you know, the concerns brought up, I, one thing I thought
about as I was presenting, I don't know if I referenced it enough, but one of the reasons for part of the amendment in here was thinking about the impact of Representative McKenzie's or the bill that has not, I think is now passed over in the Senate and just the true, the change that's going to come along with that, with maybe the way the public thinks about these elections, The fact that it's going to be at the same time, these school board elections, as some of our other races, I think is going to bring more attention. Hopefully, I don't want to say more valued candidates, but I'd say I don't think it'll be as difficult to find candidates running
because it's going to be more in sync with the way we do some of
Speaker 271
1:58:42
our other elections. You follow up? And this is
Speaker 272
1:58:44
going to be a wouldn't-you-agree type of deal. I
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
1:58:49
do believe, though, that having candidates run in the regular election where there's multiple votes, and it is important that you get
out and talk with people and find out what they want and everything. I think it will take the position that some may see as not that important of a position
and kind of raise it up and say, hey, this person ran for this position or I ran for this position. I'm going to try to do a good job. Yeah, I
Representative Austin McCollum
Unverified
1:59:11
mean, more people are just, by nature of when the election is, they're going to see
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
1:59:16
that name more. It will be elevated. That's right, and wouldn't you agree that currently, probably people couldn't tell you who's on their school boards? I would
Representative Austin McCollum
Unverified
1:59:23
agree that, unfortunately, that is the case. Representative Brown, you're recognized for a question.
Representative Matt Brown
Unverified
1:59:34
Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is purely speculation, but it's going to be kind of wouldn't you agree question that because it's a non-paid position and because people don't pay attention or have not paid much attention in the past, You end up with some people on that board that are wielding authority and making major decisions and not, you know, not very performing well and not behaving well on the board, and they get by with it.
Representative Lincoln Barnett
Unverified
2:00:18
I would say, you know, Representative Brown, I have seen examples of that, but I really would not want to tag folks that school board. No, I wouldn't want to tag many people with that. I don't think you were intending to do that. I just want to be
Representative Matt Brown
Unverified
2:00:31
clear in my answer. No, but I'm saying
that those things do occur. They do occur. And I think since COVID, it really woke up a lot of parents to realize that they need to pay closer attention to the decisions that the school board makes.
regarding curriculum and behavior issues and lots and lots and lots of things. So I think that we're seeing, I haven't really done any study on this, but I did campaign with a school board, someone who won their school board seat, and I'm seeing parents stepping up, from my experience, stepping up and running for school board because they care about these issues.
and I think that, you know, sometimes you get stuck with a school board member that's really not really doing anything to really benefit the kids. I have seen
Representative Lincoln Barnett
Unverified
2:01:31
it. I don't think that's their intent. I think they're doing maybe a different job than they're doing, but I have seen some examples of that, and I do agree overall that, like, this aligned with having the new law on what our elections are going to be, these positions are going to be elevated even more hopefully to the public and the type of interest maybe that you're referencing. Well, I think, I think school board
Representative Matt Brown
Unverified
2:01:52
has gotten, I think school boards, in my
opinion, wouldn't you agree that people are paying closer attention to their school boards? I do agree. Thank you. Um, I will make a motion do pass as
Representative Austin McCollum
Unverified
2:02:05
amended at the proper time, Mr. Chair. So we do not have anyone sign up to speak for or against
the bill. I will ask if anyone likes to speak for it against the bill. Seeing none, Representative McCollum,
would you like to close for your bill?
Representative Lincoln Barnett
Unverified
2:02:22
We've been here a while. I just appreciate
all y'all's time, and I am closed. Thank you. Representative McCollum is closed for his
bill. We have a motion of do pass as amended.
Is there a discussion on that motion? I see No discussion. All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed say no. No. No. Congratulations to Representative McCollum. Your bill is passed as amended. Members, we have two more bills to hear. We have one that we've already heard, which
would be Representative Mayberry's nurse's bill, so we'll just be voting on that.
So I'll take the last bill that we need to hear, which is Representative Bentley, which is House Bill 1977, and I believe that will clear our House bills off that are going to be run. So representative Bentley you are recognized if you would please introduce yourself for the record
and you recognize your president House bill 1977 Thank you chairman. Thank you committee sit represented Bentley district 54 Thank you
Representative Mary Bentley
Unverified
2:03:17
all. It's almost 7 o'clock at night and I know it's been a very long day. We're all a little bit weary So I just want to thank you all for staying And in your committee, I really appreciate I will be brief on this. This is a library bill. I have been
Hospital 1977 My homeschool moms and my school board members have just begged me not to give up on libraries says, you know When my kids were little, we could bring them to the library. They'd run through there and just so much enjoy picking up books and bringing books home. And unfortunately, our parents just can't do that anymore because there are books in the library that are offensive. Unfortunately, things that are sexually explicit, I never believed it myself until school board members brought me those books and showed me them. So if you guys look at this, the book is very, very narrowly written. I think I want you to look.
Let's see. And we're all tired, so bear with me. I think if we look on page three, I think it's listed twice for schools and for public libraries, but look at page three in lines two through 15, and you'll see this is very, very narrowly
defined, not trying to go a long way, just actually showing acts of sexual intercourse is what we're looking at here. So if you look on there in those lines, we're trying to be very, very specific and very narrow. I want my grandchildren to be able to go to the public library and pick out a book and enjoy it
not have to worry about um their parents knowing this is there and unfortunately it's it is in our libraries and i want to again i'm just out being safe for our kids and we're just trying to stop those books from being in the library they'll be pulled out and this is a civil cause of action if this um um if those materials are left on the open shelves i think you know this day and age our kids deserve to be safe just when we were as our kids were little so um i'm not going to be very long because I know they were all very tired but this is a very simple bill and this isn't a
public library we're not going to have well if you'll read that definition on page uh three they're able to see that's actually describing intercourse actions that we would see in the book and unfortunately those are in our library I don't think they should be there and I don't think most of our librarians would want them there but unfortunately they are so I want my homeschool kids to be able to go to the library and run and play and enjoy not have those books on the shelves not only kids at school the same and so uh again it's a very narrowly written bill in that specific area not trying to be broad be very narrow in our definition um because i do uh the ag's offices
looked at this felt good with it as far as constitution that's good to go not having i have not had any opposition to this bill but i've actually had some emails from librarians in support of the bill and wanted to work on it with me so um with that i'd be happy to take questions on this bill because I know
that we're all tired. It's been a long day. Are there questions from the committee? Representative Bentley, I would ask a couple questions if you're willing to entertain them. So looking at page three, and first I'll just clarify,
wouldn't you agree that certainly I don't believe
that we want any of our kids reading sexually explicit material. I think the intent behind this is very good. Wouldn't you agree? Yes. Yes, sir. I
Representative Mary Bentley
Unverified
2:06:26
wouldn't bring in otherwise. Thank you, Tina. I will
say that I really want to dive into page, into page three and page four,
which is the civil cause of action portion of it. Yes, sir. So as we're thinking about what a potential civil cause of action
would be, is that civil cause of action against the librarian or is it against the public school itself?
The librarian. Against the librarian themselves. I'm sorry
Representative Mary Bentley
Unverified
2:06:51
I didn't bring the lawyer that helped me write. It was Stephanie Nichols with Family Counsel helped him write this bill. So
to clarify, the civil cause of action would be against the librarian as an individual. Excuse me, can I reread
Representative Mary Bentley
Unverified
2:07:06
this again? I'm sorry, I read it this morning. Sure.
well i will readdress that it does look like it's the library the public library yes i would say
it's the public library so and this would be the public
school library yes sir and the public library and in the the public municipality you're talking like a
Representative Mary Bentley
Unverified
2:07:47
county library city library if you look on page four at the end there it describes a taxpayer funded The library means the library receives tax funds
from local taxes, including an intimidation county library or municipal library.
So it clarifies that. I believe there's another section here where it talks about public school library as well. And so the
civil cause of action is not against the individual, it's against the library itself. Correct, you are correct, it's against the library. So what would be our standard that we're trying to set relative to should someone, and again, I have no issues with, I believe that protection of kids, you heard me describe that very passionately today on the floor.
I believe that protection of kids should be our primary objective. Should whatever one of these books might be, should they be left out accidentally or placed somewhere incorrectly? Does that meet the bar of the two years of the civil cause of action? It says in the text that I think if we look
Representative Mary Bentley
Unverified
2:08:52
here at cause of action, again, I'm looking on page three, that they're going to take reasonable steps to ensure that they're not located in the open shelving areas
or be able to be accessible. So I think if when that child went to check out that book and they said this should not have been here and they don't let the child check it out, because if we look at there on lines 24 to 26, I think they'll let the child check it out without the parent's consent, that that would be an issue. But I think if they did not, that they would prevent it at that point.
Am I making sense to you on that? And I'm sorry, I didn't have the lawyer here today. She'll be here tomorrow,
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
2:09:42
but we're trying to hear house bills today. So
I appreciate the answer. I guess as an extension of that question, as we potentially proceed forward in that process, so a parent or grandparent or someone who stands in local parents for the child brings a civil cause of action, then that would be potentially against a public school.
And so would the public school then be responsible for the costs associated with that? and I believe that's specified, reasonable attorney fees, costs, what would costs be? So I'm trying to help us establish what potential costs could be for a public school system. Chairman Brooks, I
Representative Mary Bentley
Unverified
2:10:25
am not a lawyer, and to me, I would say whatever court costs might be to maybe file the lawsuit. So I would say court costs.
I think it does cost even to have their court fees involved in a lawsuit. The reason
I ask those questions is because, obviously, within this committee, we deal a lot with costs for public schools. That's part of our responsibility to deal a lot with costs, perceived costs, costs that aren't known, unintended consequences, all those things. and so that's why I want to make sure that we have clarity on this relative to our fiduciary duty to public schools as well.
So I'll jump out and let, I think there's another question or two.
Representative Mary Bentley
Unverified
2:11:09
And I'll just say, I'll clarify, it is against the library. It would be against the public school library. You're correct. It would be reasonable attorney fees and costs. I think costs to me would be court costs. So I don't see this going to be, I don't see any pain and suffering list or something like that listed here, right? That's not listed here. You know, as I'm thinking, if somebody gets injured, and they have a pain and suffering, none of that's listed here. It's attorney fees and costs. So I would say court costs, but, again, I don't have an attorney here to verify that, and I apologize.
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
2:11:38
Thank you. Representative Beck, you're recognized for
a question. Oh, I thought you had me.
Later. Now, I do like the intent of the bill, but there's something I – it's on page 3, line 27. a parent or a garden whose child has been exposed to sexually explicit material in the children's section. Okay, so maybe that makes me feel better about it. I just need to read it out loud.
But the concern I would have, it would be that there seems there's got to be some level. Now, okay, somebody wants to
make a big deal out of this. Someone wants to make some money from a public school. They take a book. They stick it in the children's library section. The kid picks it up. They go out and they say, you've exposed my kid to this. Now let's talk about court and civil fees.
And that's, you know, that could happen. I mean, it's almost like it needs one of those legal, and this is what I'm saying, I think you can do it. It needs one of those legal, and I don't know all the legal words, but it needs one of those, you know, that neglect, or I don't know what the right word is there, but, you know, that the librarian was forewarned that it was in that section, did nothing about it.
And now it would, you know, I'm not a lawyer. I don't know what it is. But all those things like this is wide open. Like, you know, someone could say their child was exposed to sexually explicit material in the children's section of the library. And now we're going off to civil court. Chairman, can I
Representative Mary Bentley
Unverified
2:13:39
make a motion quick? I appreciate this committee, and I love what you guys are bringing forth.
I think I like to pull this into interim study because it's late in the session. There's really not a chance for us to get this through both sides at this point. You brought some great points, but that's why I like bringing it into committee because I have had great bills at the end of it. So if there's anybody that wants to make another comment, but I think I'm going to pull it at this point. And you brought some great things for me to bring forth to the lawyer, to
Stephanie that brought it forth. So if anybody says anything else, but I think I will, yeah, I can hear some other comments. So I do
have a couple members who would like to make comments, so I'll recognize those members. Representative Painter, you're recognized.
Representative Bentley, I think when you do that,
Representative Stetson Painter
Unverified
2:14:19
I would reach out to Representative McGrew because we did pass a bill that on the public school side they have to put this stuff in a lockbox area. Yeah, yeah. And so I just want to make sure if we've already taken care of that problem, if you're trying to do maybe
Speaker 302
2:14:34
the public library and maybe go that narrow route, Right. That's something. We'll just be
Representative Mary Bentley
Unverified
2:14:38
able to pull out the whole school part and just make it public libraries. Because that's the point. Just
a bunch of homeschool moms that I know, and my daughter's in a homeschool co-op,
and they would love to be able to just drop through, let their kids run around the library and enjoy it, not to be concerned about that. So I think we could just pull it out and do public libraries, since I do
Representative Stetson Painter
Unverified
2:15:01
like Representative McGrew's bill. And I get it, and I just don't want
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
2:15:04
us to reinvent the wheel. Thank you, sir. Representative Meeks, I believe you had a comment. Yeah, I appreciate you bringing this bill. It's definitely been a problem, especially in my community. I'm ready to make a due pass motion on this, but it sounds like you want to pull it down and study it further, and so obviously we will respect your wishes there,
but I wish I could get you to change your mind. But I understand.
Representative Mary Bentley
Unverified
2:15:24
I appreciate that. I think as I read it more and I thought about Representative McGrew's bill, we should have just made
it for public libraries. Representative Meeks said I will not forget what happened at your library. see we can't
Representative Matt Brown
Unverified
2:15:40
move forward okay all right recognize represent brown for comment thank you mr chair uh representative painter uh covered what i wanted
to say you know if you think representative mcgroves bill covers it for schools then maybe we could just look at the public libraries thank
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
2:15:52
you all thank you committee i appreciate
garner do you have comment are you good okay so representative uh bentley just to clarify you're going to pull down hb 1977 senate and earn a study Thank you. Committee, we have one more bill to hear, and this is a bill we've already heard, and so we're to the point, I believe, of closing for the bill and motion from the committee. That would be Representative Mayberry and House Bill 1242. I will allow additional questions, should there be them, as a part of the close.
So I guess, Representative Mayberry, if you've got anything to say prior to closing, I would allow additional questions from the
Representative Julie Mayberry
Unverified
2:16:36
committee. Okay. Thank you, members. State Representative Julie Mayberry. So there were some questions that we said we would get back and try to answer for you, and I want to do that. I know everyone's tired and we want to get out, but I think this is really important information for you to know. So when we concluded our meeting, we got together with some of our school nurses and began talking, And I actually filed another bill that got sent, instead of here, got sent to the health committee.
And it's sitting there. I'm not going to run it because what that bill did is it started a conversation with DHS and with the Department of Education. And what that bill is doing is we realized that there are other states based on some information that was shared with me after this meeting, some other studies, national studies, and what other states are doing, there are other states that allow their school nurses to bill for more Medicaid services. And as you may have heard,
our nurses are doing incredible things in their office. And this would have no fiscal impact to our school districts. I want to repeat that. It would have no fiscal impact. All we would be doing is reaching out and grabbing federal dollars that are potentially there and bringing them back to our school district to be able to provide nursing services because the school district does the match. The school district is not going to have a problem doing the match because they're getting
70% back into their school district. So I would love, first of all, I'm going to let Jackie just kind of share a quick minute about that because she did bring some of this information to me, and I'd also would love for Courtney Solis-Ford to please come up and confirm that this conversation is actually taking place, so you're not just hearing it from me, but Jackie, share what we've learned. If you would please introduce
yourself and I'll go ahead and recognize Ms. Salisford
to you almost made it up there. I'll just let you
keep going the rest of the way to introduce yourself as well
Speaker 310
2:18:56
to provide clarity here. Good evening Mr. Chair and representatives. My name is Jacqueline McEwen. I'm
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
2:19:01
a director of health services for one of the districts in our great state of Arkansas and I'm also a board member of ARNA, the Arkansas Nurses Association and a member at large for the National Association of School Nurses and a member at large for the Arkansas School Nurses Association. I know we're on a time restraint this evening, and you all have had a
really long day, but I would like to thank you for stepping into a leadership role in our state. You all have to make tough decisions each day. You're in session, and HB 1242 is a bill that I hope you can support tonight. We have gone back to review more data and information, and I will be sharing that info in a little bit. Um, and I promise that I'm not going to read the long monologue that I had last time that I think it was about five or six pages. I was trying to share the importance of school nurses, um, this evening, but I need your help supporting school nurse pay
so that we can provide the necessary services to our students in this great state. Um, I believe last time, uh, representative Beck said you got to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. And so we went back and got some further data related to state nurse pay. So state nurse pay currently, if you go on to their website and look at their pay, it is currently $63,380 to $96,864 a year, but that's based off of 260 days.
I know school nurses do not work 260 days. We work anywhere from 185 to 190 school days. So I've broken down a comparison to each region that we have. So with that pay, without talking about the pay that was just passed through the Senate for the state nurses, Northwest Arkansas, their low end, there is a difference between state pay of $7.77 currently. The top salary, there's a difference of $51.10.
Southeast Arkansas, there is currently a difference of $14.77. the high end being a hundred dollars and 55 cents northeast arkansas there's uh the low end is 41 dollars and 77 um per day difference and the high end is 63 dollars and five cents per day north central arkansas their low end difference is 53 dollars and 77 cents a day and the high end is $90.11. Southwest Arkansas, low end is $64.77, high end $76.89. Central Arkansas, $42.41 a day,
$22.69 a day for the high end. With the law that was passed for the Senate, the state nurse RN range is going to be
Speaker 310
2:21:43
going anywhere from $75,245 to $111,363 a year. I just want to repeat that.
Representative Julie Mayberry
Unverified
2:21:51
So an RN, if you're working for the state of Arkansas, you're going to start out,
start at $75,000. I just want to make that really clear. I'm sorry.
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
2:22:03
Yeah, you're good. And that is based off of the 260 days. So I have broken it down into the 190 day, 185 day increments. For the Northwest region, the low end of the salary is going to be a difference of $53.40 a day. The high end of $106.87. Southeast Arkansas, and I can run through this, but the low end of all of these regions, the lowest is $53 a day for the low end salary, all the way up to $110 a day for the low end salary difference a day.
And then the high-end salary for all of these regions, the lowest for the high-end was $78.46 a day difference to $156.32 a day. So there is a big pay difference for school nurses compared to the state nurses. We could talk about hospital pay as well, but I think this is the most comparable to compare to school nurses based off of the days that we work and us still being kind of, We're under the Arkansas Department of Education, so that is a state-run organization.
I also want to share that it was shared with me that for a state hospital nurse, a state nurse working, they have one RN to 24 to 30 patients. On top of that, they have an LPN. On top of that, they have two to three CNAs on that one unit for 25 to 30 patients. I want to remind you the last time that I spoke, we have hundreds and thousands of people that we
are taking care of each and every day, and we have one nurse up to two nurses at some of our larger campuses. So that's our comparison that you were asking for. Okay, and then as I
Representative Julie Mayberry
Unverified
2:24:03
mentioned I filed, it's House Bill 1890, if you all wanted to take a look
at it, because it kind of will show you the information that we shared with DHS, and that's where Courtney comes
in and can confirm that you have received, there is an email exchange confirming that DHS is promising to look into this and
help us find more money, right? Yes, I can confirm we
Speaker 26
2:24:33
received an email to our school health services staff from DHS that they are committed to working with us on setting up reimbursable nursing services for children on Medicaid. And we obviously commit as
Representative Julie Mayberry
Unverified
2:24:50
The other part of that that is something that we'll just have to make sure when
they are able to dip into this federal money more that because several of the school nurses were concerned, okay, if this money comes back, we need to make sure it stays within the nursing department. And that was actually in this bill, but we want to make sure, because I've been told that some of the other Medicaid money that comes in that nurses are currently doing, vision exams and what have you, actually go and fund other areas of the school, parapros and special ed, which that's all
wonderful, but if money is coming in because of the work that the school nurse is doing, it needs to stay in the school nurse office, and hopefully that will allow that local school district to help find the money to pay for that school nurse. So, therefore, that leads me to the bill that I have in front of you today. I want to point out that the bill that I have filed for you to hopefully pass, it does not go into effect until 27-28 school year.
So therefore, the next two years, we have time for DHS to figure out how to make use of those federal dollars. Our school districts will know that this is coming, and it will allow us, when we are having discussions of adequacy and how much money does it take to fund our school nurses and all that, we'll have updated numbers. Because if we don't pass this, then what's going to happen is we're going to come up with the average nursing salary,
and that's what's going to be used in our figures, and that's not enough. That's not enough. We are going to lose our nurses because they're going to see they can go work for their county health department and start out at $75,000. That's just the starting point. It goes up to an RN, can make $111,000, $75,000 to $111,000. We're going to lose them. So there's my pitch.
This puts it out two years from now. It gives us lots of time to find that extra funding, and I ask for a good vote, or I'll take whatever questions you might have. Representative
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
2:27:21
Mayberry has explained the bill. So since I've got the big chair now, I'm going to ask the first question. And actually, I was first on the list committee, so I'll just let you know I'm not cutting in line. So I was listening to the discussion on getting the Medicaid money to help cover the cost of this.
And first off, let me just say I appreciate your work on this. I know you've been working on this for a very long time, so hopefully maybe this will be the one to get you over the finish line. But you said you're talking about trying to get some of those federal funds through the Medicaid. I was looking at the cost analysis, the green sheet that we got, and there's a comment on there that says that something to the effect of you can't bill for Medicaid during school hours. You can. Oh, you can. Okay, so that was a,
Speaker 81
2:28:05
okay. All right, so that was my question.
All right. I'll be happy to
Representative Julie Mayberry
Unverified
2:28:11
forward these packets to all of you as committee
members to learn more about it, but other states are billing for more
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
2:28:21
services than Wobord. here. Okay. First on the list, Representative Gonzalez-Wurthen, you're recognized. Yes.
Representative Justin Gonzales
Unverified
2:28:28
You mentioned in, I guess, in a hospital, in a hospital setting, you have your nurse and then you have a LVN and then you have, and then there's so many patients, you know, so
I'm just wondering, we passed, we passed a bill in the House. I don't know where it is right now, but related to CHWs. And I just wondered, like, for additional support for school nurses, if that might be, I mean, I'm not sure, but I just wondered about that. If you've thought about, it may not be something relevant, but I'm just thinking in terms of someone who can be, I think Medicaid does cover what they do to help the school nurse, someone who, you know,
can make that phone call can get kids ready can I mean there's a lot that's involved I know with being a school nurse so I just wondered if if you if would that be something to consider when you're looking at I know we need to look at the pay
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
2:29:36
but I'm also looking at support because you do a lot thank you for that question so we do have we have looked into that um a lot of our schools also have UAPs which are unlicensed assistive personnel and we call them nurse aides in our district or health aides but we the problem is is that those individuals cannot do all nursing
tasks so that's where we run into an issue of safety for the students on campus is that we have to provide that that necessary registered nurse at our schools to be able to provide that care but we're having trouble keeping registered nurses and having people apply due to the salary of the school nurses, so that's why we're running into a big problem. Y'all start, Representative? Okay.
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
2:30:27
Representative Beck, you're up next, sir. And then Representative Painter.
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
2:30:38
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the work
that you guys have done. And I know you're thinking, Oh, he's talking. But the apples are apples and all this. I appreciate you going out and you're looking at that.
You're comparing it to it. And I got a little, I have to admit, I didn't have the data in front of me. I got a little bit lost in the numbers with the 265 days versus 165 and all that. So I did
get a little lost in your numbers when you're comparing salaries and so on and so forth. So I probably need a little bit better information on that. But the problem is here is like, I think you captured part of the problem, right?
Some of the money that's going to the nurses or should be going to the nurses is going somewhere else. But that's a local school board issue. That's
not a state issue. We, you know, it's the same situation that we've had. You know, a teacher salaries in the matrix are, I don't even, are they, what, 70, somebody help me out, 70, with benefits and everything, $7,600 and stuff.
And that doesn't include the learns money. So my point is that the money's not going there. So here's
my concern with this. You're saying, okay, well, we're going to get this money from Medicaid, so it's going to be kind of free. It's out there. we can pull it, but then you stop just short of putting that in here because if the money is not there, you're committing the schools to this money. If we push this forward and say this is what you will pay your nurses,
then we're committing the schools to that money. So if that money is a DHS, and I
heard what you said with the DHS and all that, but if that money is not there, then what happens?
Representative Julie Mayberry
Unverified
2:32:42
Well, first of all, it does not go into effect until two years from now. It doesn't matter when it goes into
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
2:32:49
effect, but whenever it goes into effect, if
Representative Julie Mayberry
Unverified
2:32:51
the money's not there. So, first of all, I believe that the money will be there because we have control of that when we start talking adequacy, and we can certainly make sure that the money is there, just like we make sure that the money is there for teachers.
So I guess I'm having a hard time understanding.
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
2:33:12
Well, we pay the money for teachers. You're talking about going out, and I might
have misunderstood you, I'm sorry. You said go out and there's going to be money that we could pull in from the Medicaid and say this would help the schools
supplement for the salaries. That's what you said. So were you talking about, oh, maybe I misunderstood. You're talking about that the state would go out and get the money from Medicaid,
and then somehow fund it through the matrix to the school, or would
Representative Julie Mayberry
Unverified
2:33:48
the school directly go? No, I'm sorry. There are lots of issues. So money would be going to the school district for the services of that nurse. Directly? Directly. Not through the state? Not through the state. Go ahead. Okay. So that's one component of all of this. That's not the only component. The other component is us as legislators over the next two years when we are talking about adequacy and what do we need,
how much money do we need to be sending to school districts to cover our needs, the school district's needs, that would also be part of discussion. If we don't pass this, then the school nurses, their average salary is going to be what that average salary is now, And we're not, we're never going to put more money in there for them. Okay, so. There's a mixture of two things that I believe will be happening over the next two years. And you know what?
If it all falls apart because of the date of this, we can fix it in the next session. If all this just does not work out at all, we can always come back because of the way that it's written. And because
it would be 20, let me make sure I get my years
right here because it's late. It would be the 27-28 school year, which means we would have another legislative session before that would go into effect.
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
2:35:26
I do understand that. And I apologize because
I misunderstood you initially. I thought you were saying, okay, this money's out there. We
can just pull this money in. Oh, I like that. But now you're saying that, yeah, there's some money out there and we can pull it in, and DHS is going to help us with this somewhat, and I believe they will. But you're saying that's not going to cover this, that there will be additional funds that the state will have to come up with.
Representative Julie Mayberry
Unverified
2:35:58
We don't know. I mean, I'm just being as honest as I can with you. That's what the next two years will show. I don't think we're far off from it, and I think we have every opportunity in the next two years to find this, and if we don't, there's another legislative session that could fix it before it would actually
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
2:36:24
go into effect. Yeah, but we're kind of committing to this if we pass this, that we're going to do it,
and it kind of says, okay, we're going to put the money out there. And I'm
not saying we shouldn't. You know, we should. But, again, we're not, and I'll shut up. All right. Sorry. But we're committing to this money, and we can't just the next section, oh, yeah, well, that didn't work out.
We're pulling that money back. I've been here, well, we came in together, and I've never seen us do that. But
Representative Julie Mayberry
Unverified
2:36:57
if we don't ever make this step forward, this will never happen.
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
2:37:03
It just won't. Can I add something? Yes. Help me out. I appreciate your honesty, Representative Beck. I feel like you challenged me a little bit, and I like that. But I do want to say and kind of echo what Representative Mayberry is stating, that nurses are a valuable resource to schools. They save time. They help those students that are in need. we are able to help serve every child.
Every child has a right to an education. How I understand the legislative process is that you wonderful people in this room would be able to help us get to the next point of the House making a decision or the Senate making a decision. So what I'm asking you tonight is to give us a chance. Give us a chance to go before the House to present this to them and let them know how important school nurses are and how much we do for the students in our state. There are untapped resources that we are not using right now.
Do we know exactly how much resource we're talking about? We don't at this point in time, but that's our conversation with the Arkansas Department of Education and with DHS. So that's what I'm asking for you all tonight, is to help us get to that point to where we can have those conversations. But also, these school nurses, everything that they do, they need a pay raise. If we are comparing those apples to apples, and I am truly breaking it down for hourly or daily pay,
we still, we're the lowest paid nurses in
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
2:38:43
the state. And I'm not really challenging those points. And I'm certainly not challenging the importance of
having school nurses, inadequate school nurses at her school. I'm not challenging either one of those
points. But I'll ask one more question, and then I'll get back into the
queue. Why do you need us to do anything to go out and seek more money for teachers? I'm sorry, for school nurses.
I mean, everything you're saying, we can go out. We don't
know how much money that is available with all this, the Medicaid and the possible DHS stuff. We don't know how big that pool is. and I have no idea how big that pool is. But why do you need us to do anything to allow the schools to start doing that right now?
Representative Julie Mayberry
Unverified
2:39:32
This motivates those schools to actually do it. Well, then
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
2:39:35
why don't we do a bill to ask the school districts to look into alternative funding for the school nurses?
Representative Julie Mayberry
Unverified
2:39:42
Well, that's what the other bill was over in the health committee. DHS asked
me to not run that, allow them to work through the process, this holds our school districts accountable because sometimes the school districts you know right now they can bill for some medicaid services and some school districts don't spend the time to do it if they know that they have to spend more to pay those school nurses they're going to be a little bit more motivated to fill out that paperwork and and and do it this holds them
accountable to actually being a part of this process no and i'll i'll be quiet
Speaker 325
2:40:21
at this point Let someone else ask a
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
2:40:24
question. One more thing to answer you with that is we can't compare nurses to teachers. We can't. We do two totally separate jobs. However, it was agreed upon by the state of Arkansas that teachers do need a pay raise. And that's what
Speaker 310
2:40:39
I'm asking for you all to help us with for school nurses.
This may have been answered when I was out of the room for
a moment. Do we have any school districts that we know are doing it well in terms of the additional billing? Is there anybody that we can set up and say, hey, this is a great example of them taking advantage of the opportunities that are out there and then compensating the nurses in correlation to that? So
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
2:41:09
currently the only things that school nurses can bill for is vision and hearing and personal care. That's the only thing that we're allowed to do.
There are about 10 to 12 other states that are actually able to bill for nursing services, for our diabetics, for students that have peritoneal dialysis, that for nursing procedures, there are states that can bill for that, and that's what we are hoping that the state will be able to allow us to do. And again, apologies if we
covered this. Is it just because we choose not to bill for those codes, or is it because we prohibit billing for those codes?
Representative Julie Mayberry
Unverified
2:41:48
I don't think they knew that they could. There was an actual, and I was trying to get DHS here, but there was actually a change, a free care policy reversal. And, again, I'd be happy to send everybody this information. I know y'all are tired, but there was a policy change that has made it easier for the states now to bill for these services, and that did not exist before. And that's what we're trying to, you know. And there's some complications that DHS has just said, please let us just work it out on our end.
The nurse can't bill directly. They're not a doctor. You've got to work on it has to be in their health services plan. Again, this gets really, really detailed, and I don't think you all want all these details. But that is what our hope is, is that we could find more federal dollars that would come to the school district. It does not affect our general revenue budget. It does not affect our general revenue budget at all. It does not affect our educational budget.
This is money that's out there that our school districts currently right now don't have a way to bill for.
I'll recognize Jefferson Painter in a moment, so I guess I'll finish
with a would you agree. So wouldn't you agree, it sounds like we have pretty good education opportunities for us to find additional dollars that may be significant, it sounds like, but perhaps there's an opportunity for us to educate the system about how we find those dollars.
Representative Stetson Painter
Unverified
2:43:26
Wouldn't you agree? Absolutely. Representative Pender, you're recognized for a question. Okay, and I'll be very short. Two questions, and yes or
no would be satisfactory to me. Districts, technically right now, still have the option to pay their nurses more if they wanted to, correct? Correct. Okay. Second is, are those Medicaid options that are out there that we're not, whether we're trying to seek for or waiting on the health department to get off their tail and help us figure that out, is it enough to cover the $5 to $7 million that's on this fiscal impact that's going to cost our school districts?
Representative Julie Mayberry
Unverified
2:44:02
I can't tell you one way or the other. it is I'm being as honest as I can we don't know and
Representative Stetson Painter
Unverified
2:44:09
to me that's a little scary I support probably the intent but I'm scared of playing with an imaginary number that we don't know and then I'm leaving especially my smaller districts on the hook for something so I appreciate that representative
Speaker 255
2:44:23
Nazarenko you recognize your question thank you Mr. Chairman first
Representative Jason Nazarenko
Unverified
2:44:26
of all thank thank you both um I really appreciate it I remember the last time we we met here you know
and there's no argument that school nurses from what you know was completed by a school nurse years ago to what's completed by a school nurse now it's incredibly different what you're expected to to provide and with the resources that you have it's just it's a huge miscompare so believe me I empathize completely and I see all the time and I've got nurses in my in my district that definitely deserve more you know they definitely do when we start looking at like I know you guys
mentioned numbers I think you said 75,000 for county jobs is what you were talking about my local hospital you know anywhere from 28 to 35 dollars an hour for for a nurse so what that equates to is about 58,000 to 40 for the low end and and 72.8 so close to that that county job so So, I mean, that kind of brings me back to, and then, again, everything I have to say, it's definitely not derogatory because it is, you know, I know that you guys are working hard.
But it goes back to what Representative Beck had mentioned before was, like, could they be overpaid in some places, you know, and would we end up putting them overpaid? And then I look at, like, I think it's great that we're coming up with an option of, we get money from somewhere else but to my knowledge
and i'm not an expert i work at a hospital so i reached out to some of the
folks that i work with and what i'm being told medicaid
for for for you to bill for medicaid you've got to have a pcp referral the nurse has got to have a pcp referral primary care provider referral in order to gain that is that is that what you understand as
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
2:46:27
well? So any nurse in the state of Arkansas can apply for an MPI number. The MPI number allows them to be able to bill. In our district, we have a consulting physician, and that consulting physician can probably help us out with that. But those are the details that
we're trying to iron out with regards to that. But any nurse in the state of Arkansas has the ability to bill. And the nurses that are at your hospital, all
Speaker 310
2:46:52
the services that they provide are billable right now they're underneath the hospital so totally different so I
Representative Jason Nazarenko
Unverified
2:46:58
and I appreciate that we're looking at options what I'm concerned about is that you know back to representative painters is that we're looking at possibly making a decision on something that we don't know and then to the point we just had a discussion the other day what's the next couple
years so if we look at like if we're approving this right now 27 to 28 school year you said And there is another session in between, but prior to that, we have a lot of unknown. And so we're just saying, okay, we're going to make this happen. And, boy, I wish some of the projects that I've done, I wish I could say I'm going to do this and my lenders were going to give me the money because I'd be able to get a whole lot more done or I'd fail in the process. I have a huge concern that that Medicaid payments are going to fall into that
where we're not going to be able to bill or the nurse is not going to be able to bill because they're not
Representative Julie Mayberry
Unverified
2:47:56
going to have the thing set up, that PCP referrals. But that's exactly what DHS is working on. And that's why they wanted me to just drop the bill for right now in the session, and they have
Representative Jason Nazarenko
Unverified
2:48:08
promised me that they're going to immediately start working on this after. And I think that's a great idea. Would you agree then maybe it would be better to pull this and do an ISP and say, let's look at the numbers. Let's look at what is the true requirement to get that Medicaid payment.
And then once we know, can we get it, how much is it going to be? Because then we could see there's going to be a delta. I mean, we all know there's going to be a delta, but maybe that delta is workable. And then we could say, hey, we can do this. We can make a raise at this much or whatever that number is because now we have the data. Now we have the knowledge. That's my concern. Would you agree that it could be a better idea to pull it down and go to an ISP so we have the data? I do understand. The
Representative Julie Mayberry
Unverified
2:48:54
reason why I think the bill is still important is because we want to hold those school districts accountable,
and we want to make sure that they are going to bill and see the need. And, again, when we start talking adequacy, we need to know what those salaries are, and we would be basing it on the old salary, you know, the current salaries, not an updated salary. And that's all I'm trying to do. If this committee wants to vote it down, you do what you feel that you need to do, okay? If it's voted down, yes, I would like to send it to an ISP.
But I still would like to give a motion and see where we are. If it fails, we'll just send it to an ISP. But I think this is absolutely, in my opinion, a way to make sure and guarantee to our school nurses also who might be sitting here saying, I'm just going to quit. I can go work for my county health department right now. And maybe if they know, oh, if I just hang in two more years, I know it'll improve.
That kind of gives them the security of it's going to be there two years from now. I'm going to hang in two more years. And that's why, to me, this is so very important. Follow, Mr. Chair.
Speaker 310
2:50:21
I'm sorry. I was just going to say, I follow Dave Ramsey's budget. I
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
2:50:25
don't know if you've ever heard of Dave Ramsey, but, I mean, I understand salaries. I understand budget. I understand that there is a financial risk that you may see with this. However, we have been asking for school nurse salary to be raised year after year, and we're
getting nowhere. Certain districts, I know, will say, well, what are the other school districts doing? And that's what they base it off of. They don't base it off of what nurses actually do. They don't base it off of the acuity. When we're talking about, I have over 11,000 medical alerts in my district alone, that means anybody that has anything from asthma, food allergies, all the way up to one-on-one nursing care, I am losing staff. This is critical. I am losing staff. Who's going
to take care of those kids? I can't cover
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
2:51:25
40 plus schools. I can't. Representative, make sure you recognize your question. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I appreciate you not putting this in there in a study. From our freshman colleague, she's been working on this for year after year after year, and what happens is we get to this point in session, this exact thing happens, and everyone says, let's put it in there in a study, let's look at it, and nothing ever happens.
Putting this in the grand scheme of things, we spent, what, $300 million last year to take care of our teachers, right? This, if we took the entire amount of general revenue, I am fully on board with that, because we were talking about a grand total of $6 million, according to this fiscal impact, to make sure our teachers are, make sure our nurses are taken care of. Because if we don't take care of our nurses and our kids aren't healthy, then that's going to impact learning.
I mean, if your bill said we were going to do this today, I would be fully supportive of doing this today, because I know how hard you've worked on it. I've had bills I've been passionate on, and so I know the struggle you've been through and don't understand why this has been such a huge problem given the small amount of money we're talking about here compared to the grand scheme of things. So now to my question. Since this is evidently the very last House bill we're going to hear this session, I didn't want it to get by without having our secretary come
and being able to speak to us at one last time. So, if you're willing, Mr. Secretary. You almost ran out of the room. That's right. Almost. Almost scared him out. And by the way, colleagues, I was here at a 10.30 last night with the State Agency's Committee, so if we finish up sometime in the next two and a half hours, I'm still getting home earlier than I did last night. This is important. So, you know, Mr. Secretary, I mean, you've heard the discussion. You understand the importance here. Obviously, I know you're supportive of our school nurses and what they do.
I just wanted to give you the opportunity to weigh in on this as far as, you know, trying to make sure that we can get the money to the schools, hold school, you know. Just
Speaker 356
2:53:35
would love your input on this. Sure. Jacob Oliva, Department of Education. So first and foremost, I
Speaker 358
2:53:41
want to make a public statement that nurses do go way above and beyond what you think a school nurse does. And in fact, when we're dealing with mental health supports and the people that are help
driving those conversations and all the complications that students come to us each and every single day, they are an integral part of that administrative team in the day-to-day function of making sure we're keeping kids safe which we always say is our number one priority and I can tell you as a former elementary school principal and a high school principal regardless of the grade levels that nurses serve they are the they can truly make a difference in the impact in school so I I would always say
anything we can do to publicly support school nurses I'm always going to be an advocate for raising salaries right so when we talked about we get asked questions about learns and setting that minimum teacher salary. One of the questions I've been asked about from not even just school nurses, but we have a shortage of bus drivers, right? So if we don't have enough bus drivers to go pick up kids, then they're not gonna have anybody in school. What about our paraprofessionals? They're working side-by-side with some of our most fragile students. Same conversation with school nurses. How come we didn't do
anything to help support our classified staff or what I would call our educational family. Well, one, the salary schedule for teachers was written into law, right? So the salary schedules for all the support staff is not written into law. And that's where the districts are coming together to determine what's a competitive wage, what's a competitive rate. My conversation when superintendents would ask me or stakeholders say, how do we get more money for parapros? I can't getting a pair of pros. They're not coming to the classroom. How do I get more money
for nurses? We can't get enough money for nurses. I think what we're advocating for is making sure districts have more unrestricted dollars so that they can work locally with their boards and look at salary schedules that work best for the needs that they're trying to prioritize and fit at the time. In some districts, it may be nurses. Some districts, it may be IT technicians, right? Some districts, it may be diesel mechanics. I don't know. So I would go back to I'm always going to advocate to make sure we're taking care of our educators and giving districts the dollars they need.
I do believe that Medicaid building is an untapped or underutilized resource that needs to be explored and figured out because districts, I feel like, would embrace an opportunity to increase revenue so that they can take care of their employees. I don't think there's a district in the state that's not going to say they don't want more money for their employees, but they need to balance all of the challenges that they face as
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
2:56:30
well. So do you have a position on this bill?
Speaker 358
2:56:34
I'm staying neutral on this. I think however the legislative delegation decides, I get both sides of the argument. I think that's why you guys are going to make an informed decision, do what's best, and We're happy to support, continue to support nurses, working with the Division of Human Services to make sure we're allocating as much resources as we can. Okay, thank you. And then one, and
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
2:56:56
I don't know if this is for you, Mr. Secretary, or for the ladies. So let's say we do this billing, this Medicaid, we start bringing in some of this extra Medicaid funding.
Is there any way to guarantee that that goes to actually to the nurses themselves, or could the school district just absorb that money and use it for new
Representative Julie Mayberry
Unverified
2:57:20
playground equipment? Well, like I said, in the bill that I put out there, 1890, I specifically said it needed to be used for that. In what DHS is now doing, there's nothing in there because, you know, when money goes to a school district, we don't tell them how to use that money and all that. So I do think that next session we might need to wrap that up, but I can't do that right now.
Right, right. I can't, but that is something I'm putting out there to
Chair
Unverified
2:57:49
make sure that it's heard. Thank you. Thank
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
2:57:58
you, Mr. Secretary. Representative Beck, you recognize? I think everyone here is seeing from the same psalm book concerning the importance of the
nurses. The problem that we have right now is, I'll just, my concern is this. If we put $5 million or $6 million, whatever it is, there's nothing that says that there's no way that we can control that that money would go to nurses.
We can't do that. Just like we couldn't do it with teacher salaries, we can say this is what it was for, but when it gets to the school districts, it goes to spending the way they want to spend it. I was wanting to say I would feel much better about it if we had some kind of commitment from the Department of Ed that would say that if we do allocate this money, two things will happen. Number one is we will look at the other avenues to get this money, the Medicaid and all that. We're going to work with that to try to get as maximum amount of money as we could out of that pool.
And we would say that any money that we allocate into this pool, we would make up a difference then to the $6,000, if that's the number, I'm just going to, excuse me, the $6 million, that that money would then somehow, with the Department of Ed, would somehow put a collar on it that says, hey, that money goes to the nurses. But without it, we're just saying, here's some money, hopefully some of it goes to the nurses. But I can't really guarantee that.
I couldn't, right now, if I said, if I voted and said $6 million goes to the nurses in the budget, in the matrix, just like it is now, couldn't guarantee
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
2:59:41
that. Can I ask you a question? Sure. With, you mentioned that teachers, that it wasn't guaranteed for the teachers in the districts. But did the teachers get an increased salary? Even if it was a dollar or two?
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
3:00:00
Okay, so my point is... What did we do
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
3:00:05
to make that happen? You put it in a law. No, no. What did we do that and learn to make that happen? We said that if you take a certain percent of the money that we've already allocated towards teacher salaries and pay that for teacher salaries, then we'll make up the difference. So there
was a catch there. So that was the avenue
Speaker 264
3:00:26
that we took there. That wouldn't necessarily work with this, I don't believe.
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
3:00:35
and I think that we need to try. We need to try for our school nurses. I'm going to reiterate again, this is a critical, critical need. We can't have one nurse for 20,000 students with 11,000 health care needs. We can't. You wouldn't want your kid going to that school district. You wouldn't want that happening. We are reaching that point.
Are there additional questions by the committee? I see no additional questions. We do not have anyone signed up to speak for or against this bill. Would anyone
like to speak for or against the bill? No one would like
Representative Julie Mayberry
Unverified
3:01:23
to speak for or against. Representative Mayberry, would you like to close for your bill? Members, I understand the position I'm putting you in. If you vote it down, I'm going to love you, okay? I understand. I understand your concerns.
I will put it in an ISP, and we'll continue this discussion. But we've been here as represented. Thank you.
Speaker 366
3:01:53
Here, session after session after session. And I've heard many members say,
Representative Julie Mayberry
Unverified
3:01:57
oh, we'll fix it. We'll help you find a source next time. We'll help you fix it next time. Here we are again. And so
by doing this, it's kind of like we're all in agreement.
We know we have two years to figure this out, and we're going to work together to find that. This holds everybody accountable. It holds us accountable. It holds DHS accountable. It holds ADE accountable. It holds our school districts accountable because now, if this gets all the way through, we know this is what we're going to do. In my life, I have to set a goal, right? you want to lose 50 pounds you set that goal we've now set this goal i make a motion for due pass
and see where it lays represent mayberry has presented house bill 1242 she's
closed forward we have a motion due pass on the table there's discussion on that
motion representative gonzalez worth and recognized for discussion on the motion oh sorry no discussion representative of Meeks,
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
3:03:07
you're recognized for discussion on the motion. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Of course, I'm the senior guy here on the panel. As the representative said, she has been doing this year after year after year after year. I understand the concern Representative Beck had
raised about, are we sure this money is going to go? Well, this sets a floor to make sure that money does go to the nurses where it needs to go. We've got a $3 billion annual budget that we send our public schools um for the like i said for the teachers we spent over 300 million dollars on top of the hundreds of millions of dollars we already send to the teachers and and we needed to do that we needed to get that done well this is the next thing that we need to do and so i'm fully
supportive of this uh appreciate uh representative uh bringing this and happy to vote for it one last time, and hopefully this is the time. Representative Painter, you recognize the discussion? I am
Representative Stetson Painter
Unverified
3:04:08
just concerned that we're relying on Medicaid to come back and pay when it's in the crosshairs of the federal government, where they're looking at trying to cut that. And so, I mean, I'm not going to lie, I'm between a rock and a hard spot right now,
because I think we should do something, but relying on the federal government for Medicaid dollars when it has been clearly said that they're going to cut that and we're just going to, you know, see what we get and then go on there and fund the rest, that leaves me heartburn. I like to plan and see figures and not just hope and, you know, just guess what we're going to get. So I'll just leave it at that. This is
our initial discussion on the motion. Representative Brown, you're recognized for discussion.
Representative Matt Brown
Unverified
3:04:55
I don't want to be foolish. I've been called a
Pollyanna too many times. But we need our nurses in our schools. And $6 million is a drop in the bucket compared to a lot of our other expenditures. So I hear Representative Meeks, and he's been around here a while.
and I'm going to go with him and
I'm going to support this bill.
Speaker 332
3:05:36
Representative Beck, you're recognized for discussion. I'm
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
3:05:41
going to vote yes for this bill. But I'm going to say that the path that you've chosen will end up with us paying the full $6 million because it's not going to happen the way you guys see it. And I say that because I hope I'm wrong.
I hope that you guys are diligent and that you hold DHS's feet to the fire and say, get this other funding for it. But if not, it's like I said, we can afford $6 million, but it's $6 million more, you know. When I first decided to run down here, to run for office, I went and talked to some legislators, and they told me, they said, You know, it's very rare that someone brings you an ideal down here that doesn't have some merit. This certainly has merit to it. But they said that your responsibility as a legislator to understand the pie is this big.
The bigger slice you throw to this person means that everyone else gets a little bit less. So it's not like there's just this infinite amount of money out there that we can just dump down. This is taxpayers' monies that we're spending
here. and there will be other areas that we'll have to find the $6 million. So I'm going to vote for it, and I hope that you
guys do due diligence in trying to find alternative funding things and not just
sit and wait for your $6 million.
Representative Denise Garner
Unverified
3:07:07
Thank you. Representative Garner, you're recognized for discussion. I just want to say thank you as a former school nurse. Thank you for what you do. We've talked a lot about safety over and over again. We've talked about kids' safety. And in hearing that we can't afford this, we can't afford not to. We've got too many kids with too many problems that are not being helped,
and by no fault of your own. So I don't think we can afford not to take care of the nurses Because if we don't do that, we're not taking care of our kids, and that's part of the safety issue. So I fully support the bill, and will be glad to do whatever I can do to help with that gravy. But even if we pay the $6 million, we can't afford not to do that, in my opinion. Thank
you. Seeing no additional discussion, we have a motion on the table of do pass from Representative Mayberry on HB 1242.
All in favor, say aye. Aye. All opposed, say no. Congratulations to Reverend Mayberry, you have passed your bill. Members, seeing no additional business, we will meet on Thursday morning. We'll meet at 9.30 on Thursday morning. Representative Payne, are you ready to go, obviously? We'll meet at 9.30 on Thursday morning. We will try to knock out all of our Senate bills as much as is possible on Thursday, so we leave ourselves a little bit of breathing room relative to the end of the session next week. So seeing no additional business, House Education stands adjourned.
Agenda
RE-REFERRED TO COMMITTEE
Number Sponsor Subtitle
HB1709 Steele TO AMEND THE HUMAN SERVICES WORKERS IN THE SCHOOLS PROGRAM; AND TO INCLUDE MENTAL HEALTH COUNSELORS IN THE HUMAN SERVICES WORKERS IN THE SCHOOLS PROGRAM.
REGULAR AGENDA
Number Sponsor Subtitle
HB1727 L. Johnson TO AMEND THE FUNDING AVAILABLE TO ADULT EDUCATION CHARTER SCHOOLS.
SB402 C. Penzo TO PROHIBIT A PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT AND AN EDUCATIONAL SERVICE COOPERATIVE FROM REQUIRING OR TAKING CERTAIN ACTIONS RELATED TO EMPLOYEE ORGANIZATIONS AND PROFESSIONAL ASSOCIATIONS.
SB373 Irvin TO AMEND THE ARKANSAS FINANCIAL EDUCATION COMMISSION.
HB1081 B. McKenzie TO REPEAL ADDITIONAL FUNDING FOR THE DEVELOPMENT AND ADMINISTRATION OF PROFESSIONAL LEARNING COMMUNITIES.
HB1139 B. McKenzie TO CREATE THE RELEASED TIME EDUCATION ACT.
HB1747 Vaught TO CREATE THE BABIES AT SCHOOL ACT; AND TO ALLOW SCHOOLS TO PERMIT EMPLOYEES WHO ARE PARENTS TO BRING THEIR INFANTS SIX MONTHS OR YOUNGER TO WORK.
HB1761 D. Garner TO INCREASE FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY THROUGH THE ESTABLISHMENT OF INCOME LIMITS FOR STUDENTS ELIGIBLE FOR EDUCATIONAL FREEDOM ACCOUNTS IN THE 2025-2026 SCHOOL YEAR AND THEREAFTER.
SB352 Stone TO PROHIBIT ANTISEMITISM IN PUBLIC ELEMENTARY AND SECONDARY SCHOOLS; AND TO PROHIBIT ANTISEMITISM IN STATE-SUPPORTED INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER EDUCATION.
HB1482 Gramlich TO CREATE AN EXCEPTION TO THE SCHOOL ATTENDANCE REQUIREMENTS FOR A STUDENT WHO TAKES A GED TEST AND RECEIVES A GED.
HB1492 Gramlich TO REQUIRE EACH PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT AND OPEN-ENROLLMENT PUBLIC CHARTER SCHOOL TO IMPLEMENT A MOBILE PANIC ALERT SYSTEM.
SB425 J. English TO AMEND VARIOUS PROVISIONS OF THE ARKANSAS CODE CONCERNING ENHANCED TRANSPORTATION; AND TO DECLARE AN EMERGENCY.
SB547 D. Sullivan TO REPEAL THE REQUIREMENT THAT A HOMESCHOOLED STUDENT LIVE WITHIN A CERTAIN RADIUS OF A PRIVATE SCHOOL FOR PURPOSES OF PARTICIPATING IN AN EXTRACURRICULAR ACTIVITY.
HB1903 Walker TO AMEND PROVISIONS OF THE ARKANSAS CODE TO PROVIDE SCHOOL DISTRICTS WITH FLEXIBILITY REGARDING ALTERNATIVE LEARNING ENVIRONMENTS.
HB1933 McCollum TO AMEND THE LAW CONCERNING A SCHOOL DISTRICT BOARD OF DIRECTORS; AND TO CREATE A RECALL ELECTION AND PETITION FOR REMOVAL FOR A MEMBER OF A SCHOOL DISTRICT BOARD OF DIRECTORS.
HB1940 Walker TO ESTABLISH THE REQUIREMENTS FOR A PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT THAT INITIATES AND MAINTAINS A FOUR-DAY SCHOOL WEEK; AND TO DECLARE AN EMERGENCY.
SB484 Irvin TO ESTABLISH A PROCESS WHEREBY A VACANCY IS FILLED ON A SCHOOL DISTRICT BOARD OF DIRECTORS.
SB504 Irvin TO ESTABLISH THE ARKANSAS RURAL PRECEPTORSHIP PROGRAM ACT.
SB559 J. English TO AMEND THE ARKANSAS MILITARY CHILD SCHOOL TRANSITIONS ACT OF 2021.
HB1825 Wooldridge TO ALLOW A PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOL TO REQUIRE AN ENROLLED STUDENT TO EARN ONE UNIT OF CREDIT IN A COMPUTER SCIENCE OR COMPUTER SCIENCE-RELATED CAREER AND TECHNICAL EDUCATION COURSE IN ORDER TO GRADUATE.
SB450 B. Davis TO REQUIRE THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION TO INCLUDE A HUMAN FETAL GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT DISCUSSION IN THE RELEVANT STANDARDS DURING THE ARKANSAS ACADEMIC STANDARDS REVISION CYCLE.
HB1977 Bentley TO CREATE THE PROTECTING CHILDHOOD INNOCENCE IN LIBRARIES ACT.
HB1242 J. Mayberry TO AMEND THE MECHANISM BY WHICH SCHOOL NURSES ARE COMPENSATED.
SB183 J. Dotson TO AMEND THE UNIVERSAL ACT ASSESSMENT PROGRAM ACT; AND TO AMEND THE TYPES OF ASSESSMENTS PUBLIC SCHOOLS MAY PROVIDE TO STUDENTS.
PENDING FISCAL IMPACT
Number Sponsor Subtitle
HB1999 D. Garner TO REQUIRE THE SECRETARY OF THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION TO PROVIDE INFORMATION REGARDING THE SUPPLEMENTAL NUTRITION ASSISTANCE PROGRAM TO CERTAIN STUDENTS.
HB2000 Wardlaw TO AMEND THE LAW CONCERNING EDUCATION SERVICE COOPERATIVES, PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICTS, AND OPEN-ENROLLMENT PUBLIC CHARTER SCHOOLS.
DEFERRED BILLS
Number Sponsor Subtitle
HB1027 D. Garner TO CREATE THE BRIGHTER START ACT OF 2025; AND TO REQUIRE THE TREASURER OF STATE TO MAKE A ONE-TIME CONTRIBUTION TO EACH EXISTING AND FUTURE ARKANSAS BRIGHTER FUTURE FUND PLAN ACCOUNT.
HB1030 T. Shephard TO REQUIRE A SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICER OR LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSONNEL TO OBTAIN CERTIFICATION IN YOUTH MENTAL HEALTH FIRST AID AND TO REQUIRE A SCHOOL COUNSELOR TO RECEIVE YOUTH MENTAL HEALTH FIRST AID TRAINING.
HB1031 D. Garner TO CREATE THE ARKANSAS HEALTHY LIFESTYLE EDUCATION ACT OF 2025; AND TO ENSURE THE HEALTH CURRICULUM IN ARKANSAS PUBLIC SCHOOLS ADDRESSES CERTAIN HEALTH ISSUES FACING STUDENTS.
HB1239 A. Collins TO AMEND THE PUBLIC SCHOOL FUNDING ACT OF 2003; AND TO ADD AN ADDITIONAL CATEGORY OF FUNDING FOR SPECIAL EDUCATION FUNDING.
HB1528 McGruder TO REQUIRE A REPORT CARD TO INCLUDE A STUDENT'S CURRENT READING GRADE LEVEL.
HB1539 A. Collins TO AMEND THE PUBLIC SCHOOL FUNDING ACT OF 2003; AND TO ADD AN ADDITIONAL EDUCATION CATEGORY OF FUNDING FOR SPECIAL EDUCATION.
HB1490 Wardlaw TO REPEAL THE REQUIREMENT THAT A PUBLIC SCHOOL STUDENT RETURN TEMPORARILY ISSUED ITEMS, RESOURCES, MATERIALS, AND PROPERTY BELONGING TO A PUBLIC SCHOOL IN ORDER TO BE ELIGIBLE TO ENROLL IN A HOME SCHOOL.
HB1020 A. Collins TO REPEAL THE ARKANSAS CHILDREN'S EDUCATIONAL FREEDOM ACCOUNT PROGRAM; TO CREATE A NEW EDUCATION FUNDING CATEGORY FOR STUDENTS WHO RECEIVE SPECIAL EDUCATION AND RELATED SERVICES; AND TO CREATE THE COMMUNITY SCHOOLS ACT FUND.
HB1022 A. Collins TO REPEAL PERFORMANCE-BASED INCENTIVE AWARDS FOR PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND OPEN-ENROLLMENT PUBLIC CHARTER SCHOOLS.
HB1023 A. Collins TO AMEND THE STATE TEACHER EDUCATION PROGRAM; AND TO AMEND THE ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS FOR LOAN FORGIVENESS AND THE LOAN REPAYMENT AMOUNTS UNDER THE STATE TEACHER EDUCATION PROGRAM.
HB1025 McGruder TO CREATE THE TEACHER FAIR DISMISSAL ACT OF 2025.
HB1144 Wooten TO REQUIRE A PARTICIPATING SCHOOL UNDER THE ARKANSAS CHILDREN'S EDUCATIONAL FREEDOM ACCOUNT PROGRAM TO COMPLY WITH THE SAME STATUTORY AND DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION REPORTING REQUIREMENTS TO WHICH PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE SUBJECT.
HB1197 S. Meeks TO PROHIBIT SCHEDULING, HOSTING, OR REQUIRING AN OUTDOOR PRACTICE, SCRIMMAGE, GAME, OR ACTIVITY FOR AN EXTRACURRICULAR ACTIVITY DURING THE HOURS WHEN AN EXCESSIVE HEAT WARNING HAS BEEN DECLARED.
HB1541 Wooten TO REQUIRE A PRIVATE SCHOOL THAT ACCEPTS STATE FUNDING OF ANY TYPE TO PROVIDE TRANSPORTATION TO CERTAIN STUDENTS ENROLLED IN THE SCHOOL.
HB1542 Wooten TO REQUIRE PRIVATE SCHOOLS TO ADMINISTER AN ANNUAL STATEWIDE
STUDENT ASSESSMENT; AND TO REQUIRE PRIVATE SCHOOLS TO ADMIT EACH STUDENT WHO APPLIES FOR ADMISSION AND INTENDS TO COVER PRIVATE SCHOOL COSTS WITH STATE FUNDING.
HB1755 T. Shephard TO REQUIRE EACH PUBLIC SCHOOL TO PARTICIPATE IN THE ARKANSAS PREVENTION NEEDS ASSESSMENT SURVEY.
HB1924 Puryear TO REPEAL THE REQUIREMENT THAT THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION ESTABLISH RULES REGARDING THE IMPLEMENTATION OF FOUR-DAY SCHOOL WEEKS.
HB1962 Vaught TO PROHIBIT A SCHOOL FROM SERVING OR SELLING ULTRA-PROCESSED FOOD ON THE SCHOOL CAMPUS DURING THE NORMAL SCHOOL DAY.
HB1990 McAlindon TO AMEND THE LAW CONCERNING HIGHER EDUCATION.
Documents
| Title | Type | Pages | Source |
|---|---|---|---|
| Agenda — EDUCATION COMMITTEE- HOUSE, Apr 8, 2025 | Agenda | 3 | Official source ↗ |
Speakers
Representative Keith Brooks Chair
Unverified
Representative Steven Walker
Unverified
Speaker 14
Chair
Unverified
Representative Jessie McGruder
Unverified
Speaker 26
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
Speaker 40
Speaker 42
Representative Jeremy Wooldridge
Unverified
Representative Julie Mayberry
Unverified
Speaker 62
Representative Stetson Painter
Unverified
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
Speaker 25
Representative Justin Gonzales
Unverified
Speaker 108
Speaker 113
Representative Matt Brown
Unverified
Speaker 156
Representative Denise Garner
Unverified
Representative DeAnn Vaught
Unverified
Speaker 12
Speaker 180
Representative Wade Andrews
Unverified
Speaker 191
Speaker 192
Speaker 196
Speaker 207
Speaker 208
Speaker 209
Mark Barnes
Unverified
Speaker 145
Representative Austin McCollum
Unverified
Representative Lincoln Barnett
Unverified
Speaker 140
Speaker 238
Gary Newton
Unverified
Speaker 242
Speaker 245
Speaker 248
Speaker 252
Speaker 259
Speaker 271
Speaker 272
Representative Mary Bentley
Unverified
Speaker 302
Speaker 310
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
Speaker 81
Speaker 325
Speaker 255
Representative Jason Nazarenko
Unverified
Speaker 356
Speaker 358
Speaker 342
Speaker 264
Speaker 364
Speaker 366
Speaker 332