Education Committee- House

All right I'm going to move one of our bills up represented cloud is also in public he's a public health and he needs to get back to his meeting so without objection I'd like to move H. B. ten twenty one to the top of the list is as a any objections that you objection a get out here for it. Glad you're recognized to take the in the table with your guest if you wanna go and bring them up this going to speak and That will like to go ahead and have of them identify their self and who they're with and then a recognized to speak at any time. You get those Mike's going down there. Thank you Mr chairman and committee Joe cloud this state rip District seventy one. all right well. Russellville Arkansas on a recharger all or just all right your recognized to present HB ten twenty one. Thank you Sir. Currently there are three thousand seven hundred and twenty five active physicians in the state of Arkansas. If you look at the Arkansas physician workforce profile this puts Arkansas forty seventh at percentage wise in our nation with total active patient care physicians Arkansas has a physician shortage there's no doubt particularly in rural areas our population is also aging this creates more utilization for medical resources the pandemic has glaringly shown us that we need more healthcare providers so wanna is Arkansas's position percentage so low one reason is dead at a greater than seventy percent of positions under forty years of age have significant student loan debt sum up to an exceeding one quarter of a million dollars to get through their undergrad in their medical training that not only affects the medical students specialty choice but also their choice a practice location describes many new doctors to more urban rather than rural areas concerns about debt can keep potential medical students from diverse ethnic and socioeconomic backgrounds from even trying to enter medical school all together. So what are some remedies. Well first off of Arkansas has done a great job of adding the osteopathic schools in Jonesborough in Fort Smith so we have more graduates every year that's a good thing for us but we need to keep those positions in the state. We can retain more medical graduates by increasing or available residency spots and providing financial incentives Arkansas currently has about two hundred and fifty residency positions I would submit to you would probably need at least one hundred more Representative Johnson's not here but that's going to be a discussion for another day so today I bring you one step in increasing Arkansas's physician workforce House Bill ten twenty one provides a thirty thousand dollar scholarship to a medical student who completes their undergraduate requirements for acceptance into medical or osteopathic school within twenty four months then after successful completion completion of their first year of medical training that student my received thirty thousand dollars to be applied toward the completion of their medical degree. This bill will incentivize the best and the brightest and the most motivated to quickly complete their undergraduate studies and attend medical or osteopathic training in Arkansas and the thought is if we can get on that far then we can keep them in Arkansas. Some students know at a very early age they want to be a physician they want to be a doctor that's their dream. They graduate high school with significant college credits nowadays so it's doable they are ready to fast track this bill has been developed in cooperation with input and input from physicians medical and osteopathic schools and the Arkansas department of higher education I'm not aware of any opposition however I am aware of concerns this is a tough task for any student to undertake we admit that but we also would like to at least give them that option. there are highly motivated and driven students that can benefit from this scholarship. So all that doctor bill speak he's the one that originally brought this to me and then we'll be glad to entertain questions. Everyone to be aware of just how vendor and the shortage for doctors GS. The the. There is a shortage of thirty thousand to forty thousand doctors in the United States now. And it's estimated that the shortage of any eighty thousand dollars the the year two thousand twenty five and that is what I read the rules number road two thousand thirty is a hundred and twenty thousand one article said two hundred thousand so would garner awful problem there were not. Really doing all right of course is getting worse all the time. Of. It takes an awful long time to get a medical education time you graduate from high school to the time you finish your first training is thirteen years. And there's too long we need to shorten their and the. I think we need some major changes. If you want to call a radical changes I don't know what's going on I thank radicals and flowers Senate list. The it can be done and I think it will be done of. How long does it take to get her to get an education takes thirteen years four years of free to read four years of medical school in five years welcome to trying to that can be shortened. The motion changing without any changes and academics they get sent out to parents no how can we do that we'll all of this main reason is. Students go to school nine months of the year. Going to screw twelve ounces general sense as it's a veteran director. What I will go to school nine one sister twelve once you start is it so we work on the farm well we don't students don't need to tell cost very much for coming harm anymore. So would we can accelerate free medical education to two years they did. Some critics FOR rent present courses and high school friends to go to summer school an accident to be credited to the winner's for his twenty years of summer school. And the radical scooters for leaders the last tune is specialty training you know elective. Mr taking for private given that these. Are discussed is the dean of the vocals through the content one course. And get residency trying for that service since the medical medical school three years instead of four years and far as well as for the training using it to the general education for three years and in some sense after the trains has two years well you're qualified to going to practice as a specialist of two three years so you shorten the medical education about five years. You know time is money after a lot of money for these kids you know if they're going to say and they get the same amount of academic training. A and so that's what I want to say done and the. I think the financial incentive. To go the. The summer school for three summers. And a financial incentive the student is not anything new. My wife is is is is a craft version one we were residency training. There is a shortage just a crafters to near or and the United States so they gave shelter to residents of extra thousand dollars a month. So I'm very three hundred and twenty dollars a month she may thirteen hundred and fifty dollars a month. What does not harm her. Where The ten thousand dollar scholarship is convened for a at the end of the. Your last three years of their school. That will cover their tuition and all of these. The books and then some food. So that's a really really really good for these kids if they do this and are willing to How many register will have. An Arkansas of the University of Arkansas which is a state supported school who has a hundred and sixty five for class Newbridge will just about all of those they are still excluding Fort Smith is a hundred and fifty eight students per class an artist offense control over as a hundred two hundred and twenty. In other words we graduate of that out four hundred doctors a year in Arkansas. This thirty thousand dollar scholarship so we're talking about. Will go a long way senator I think that needs to be done. Go take to long. Let it entertain any questions all right I think we have a few represent of alt you're recognized for a question. I think I found the answer but it's the money is going to come from private individuals or businesses it's not state funded and am I reading that right. What I've been told Representative audits we gotta get to substantially park passed and my friend Dr Markham is sitting over there so hopefully she's going to help me with the getting that money. After we get this past okay but if it's a one of the following sorry so what is that one time funding that you're going to ask are you gonna ask her every year for the for the moneys to finance will start off with one time money because obviously it in the best case scenario this is not going to start until the fall of this year which then would be three more years before any pay out would occur. So one time money to start with thank you. Several of. Thank you session or nothing that was my first question because I did see where it was private it said something about private individuals given so that I just would like clarification on that but also in retaining stay in retaining our our graduates are doctoral. Fellows. Is there a clause in this is the main. The if we give them the thirty thousand dollars a day they have upset some. Eerie to to stay in Arkansas to serve. Are you again are are you against the cost like that because I guess my question is this is that. Arkansas Arkansas has a lot of of Just this this is taken veterinarian medicine we train people and the Arkansas taxpayers pay this to provide scholarships for the students to go over to a different state and then what happens is that if they're not they're not required to connect here after the Arkansas taxpayer pays this funds and so I guess that's that's my concern is is are you opposed to calls being here to where there's a set amount of time in which a student would have to serve Arkansas I mean is that I don't want to make it to where they have to serve for ever but you know maybe a year or two once you get the scholarship and I guess that that's my question to you Dr clout yes Sir great question and certainly one that's been bantered around and discussed you're absolutely correct in this bill there is not that requirement and let doctor bill speak to that but the thought is is if we can get the student in Arkansas Medical School and incentivize them then they're going to stay but you wanna dress that. That require you to stay. What I would do a doctor rather stay here than someplace else. That's my question I think that the state will return to your we want to stay here. The cost of living is listed in a moment we'll hear so I think. Ninety four percent of their insurance who are staying. Thank you without without any requirement. The legislature. Russian Capri. Thank you Mr chair Representative club that I understand correctly and and talked about from your an explanation that students are only eligible for this scholarship if they graduate undergrad in two years. Is that right. The almost it's it's not to qualifier to graduate it is to create that twenty four month window for them to complete their undergraduate requirements for medical school and then once you graduate medical school then you would get your B. S. you would graduate so to speak from your undergraduate but no not to graduate just to complete the requirements thank you thank you Mr. Senate back. Thank you Mr. And I'll who who might have this information on there but what percentage of students that is go the first year of medical school do not complete. Do not become doctors and talk the Bill. It is all about. I don't have the specific number for you revision will graduate. All right. Follow up your record I'd. I appreciate the intent of the bill I really do I recently had a discussion with a friend of mine whose son is graduating and. His concern was is that there were a lot more opportunities for The. Internship or whatever you wanna call us present six right residency's apps Allen St were more much more profitable than resident residencies in the state and his my friends concern was is that if someone has a residency at a state that then creates a natural tendency to For for them to stay in that state not to come back home to us so that that that would be my concern with this that we really need to I like the idea that you're trying to open up the number of residencies also with this bill but. I would really like to see it almost as a mandate that we that we open up those residency so we keep those students here in Arkansas so that they don't jump out of state to to to make some money to pay for the school their education at that point and and then be able to. Yeah welcome back. thank you Representative back in here you're absolutely spot on just to clarify this bill has nothing to do with the residency concessions but what you said is absolutely true we need more residency positions in Arkansas this thirty thousand dollars that we're talking about per student that qualifies which will admittedly be a very low number that's that's a small tiny one drop in the proverbial bucket to water residency program cost but there is discussion and and legislation being worked on to try to increase residency positions. Vaught you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair so may not love the intent of the bill so I don't want you misunderstand my line of questioning here but I do worry about the money because if we say we're going to do this and then we don't have a way to fund it. Then we've got these kids thinking that they're gonna be able to get the scholarships and there's no money to give them the scholarships with so that kind of worries me and it worries me about the chunk of change that is going to cost you know essentially for those students so have you thought about doing a cap on the number of students that are available to get it or have you thought about doing a cap on the amount of money in which would be used because I don't I mean I foresee this having to be general revenues and not be I mean I don't say the higher and having the funding to. DO just this does that make sense what I'm saying so is have you thought about cap on the number of students that can receive it and it be an lack when you go to P. T. school you interview and you do all of that and just a certain number of kids actually receive the money. Yes ma'am The thought is and and I believe it's correct that initially there's going to be very few students that are going to qualify for this because it is a heavy lifting they have to they have to be highly motivated and plan in advance and be very structured in their undergraduate training we've talked about five hundred thousand dollars to put in the pot and if we can get this past then you know then we're certainly going to work on getting that money. Mr Califano at. You may what's your plan if you can't get the money though that's not that's not worry is we tend to pass things and they're not be away to fund things so my worry is if we passed this and then we can't find the money then what I mean we have a bill that we don't have the appropriation to go with it. So if you thought past that point of if we can't have not to be honest with you thank. I believe we do that all the time yeah we do it all my notes so medical students thinking that that I'm able to get money that's not actually there to be able to fill it it will be clear and these rules will be promulgated by the Arkansas department of higher ed so it'll be clear up front that if those funds are available. And if not I'm west Dr bill for the money they have thank you Mr thank you. Of. Receive Deffenbaugh. Thank you Mr I may have missed some of this and I was listening to some of the figures It is a way to approximate about how many scholarships this might provide or is it just a shot in the dark and you know how many you got any idea how many students this would cover any and let's say the first year. I would think it would be extremely small probably less than ten in the first year okay. For. So tell me again how much. Schooling they would say by if they got this scholarship how much schooling would they say as compared to what it takes to get at a medical degree today. They would basically say two years of undergraduate training. Okay thank you. Soon Godfrey you're recognized thank you Mr chair and I'm sorry to circle back to this and because I I do want to get a little bit of clarification on that two year under that I asked about it you said it wasn't graduation I understand that now and but it does seem like the student would have to really be free plan to be on this xcelerated tracks that was that the student who saying you know what I want to be eligible for this scholarship therefore instead of four years of undergraduate course work I'm gonna shrink that down and do it in two years so that I can be eligible for the scholarship but we're also just a little bit concerned that we don't even have funding secured yet so we're having student to for their undergrad are now paying you know for thirty hours of tuition to do fifteen hours you know a normal fifteen hours of course work. In a kind of consolidating that course reckoned to two years with ultimately no guarantee for this scholarship and again I I want you to hear many of us in the room who think it's a great idea when we need doctors you know I am always committed to expanding opportunity for low income students but you know kind of switching your. Degree program path from four years to two with no guarantee of funding to me as a very heavy lift for students and and maybe you have students who are ready to do that ready to take that risk but I guess I'm just wondering what it does seem like we do have a little bit of a two year delay because that student will need to decide twenty four months in advance that yes I'm going to try to squeeze in all my undergraduate course work in twenty four months so that. By a qualified first caller ship that we're not a hundred percent sure funding will be available for can you just speak to that concern placed on a totally agree and again you're spot on their Representative the. The way the process works I've been repeatedly counseled is we have to get this substantially part and then we get the funding part we can do them together can do the funding part before so that's what I've been told and you know I'd love to come to you and say we've already got the money. And that might make everything easier but but we don't sell your concerns are noted. You want to say anything to that. All right I have two more represented Beck recognized. Thank you Mr and maybe this can be done with rules at the higher level or something but. Again the funding is is obviously a concern for all of this but is it possible then that maybe with rules that the the question I would have is if you if you somehow got the funding for for ten students and you had twelve right now to our big losers is it possible that through rules and I read that you could maybe somehow say that you. The pot is you know if the maximum is thirty thousand dollars that you that I can get but if there's not enough money to fund all the people you meet the requirements that it would be stripping down to maybe everybody would get twenty five thousand or something like that so maybe they can do that to me maybe they can do that with rules or something I don't know I'll are do we need to put that in this legislation that says that everyone who meets the requirements are going to get their piece of this because of not it's it's could be someone who who met. So we've got to make a decision as to who who gets and who doesn't right right the yes for the. Right the bill would have to be amended because as written right now it's first come first served so they they they did their completion Arkansas department of higher it gets a letter from the osteopathic school or the medical school saying the student qualifies and then we'll go from there. I think that's pretty plaintiff it's first come first served in the money that is not available they applies not available correct we have one more Representative McKenzie. Thank you Mr chair and although I agree with the sentiment of why wouldn't when they want to stay in Arkansas that certain the way I approach life I'm wondering do you have any do we have any figures on how many folks who actually you know complete the program who do stay in Arkansas or versus go somewhere else. Well yes ma'am I do. But I do not from the osteopathic schools because you know they just started graduating last year so but UAMS put out a press release just about two weeks ago sixty percent of all practicing physicians in Arkansas are you A. M. S. graduates so that's sixty percent of their roughly one one hundred and sixty that they graduate or have in the past graduated so that's that's their current status. All right that's all the questions I have work from the Committee. we go to the audience to see if anybody would like to speak against this bill. I like to speak for the bill in the audience. Have any other comments seeing none. Comments would you all love like my closing comments yes Preciado committees recommendation and thoughtful questions appreciated thank you. What's will committees. I have a motion to pass a motion to pass all right I have a debate. He has anyone wanted to by any. One. All right. We have a motion to pass all those in favor say aye. Elbows NO. You have passed your bill. Thank you in a lot longer period I thought it would take you to make. I thank you Mr chairman and the regulation yes thank you. All right of a quick note. And for some people that are probably in the audience I know that we have some decide to HB twelve twelve of fifty seven will not run today this can be moved to Thursday I believe that's correct and Thirteen eighty nine for the revision breaks will be moved to Thursday he's doing good vote all these have amendments at twelve thirty seven not sure if he's going to have that ready for third year not so will will hold only probably will not so that those three will not run the day so if you're here to to speak to for against those bills you're probably not gonna be here and also fourteen twenty nine is that correct we're going to move that to another day. Don't know when. Hopefully Thursday okay so so we're taking four of them off the agenda today sorry about that but that's the way education goes at this time we're going to will move to H. B. eleven seventy one represent all if you will take the of the table you're recognized to present your bill. Thank you Mr thank you Committee. The older I get the more I realize that most of my life is spent doing things that I have to do but every once in awhile you get to do something that you're passionate about for me. That's house bill eleven seventy one. This bill is controversial as you already know. This bill simply allows schools choice students to be fully participating members of the school district they are transferring to. The intent of the school choice law was already designed to allow a school choice student to be a fully participating member of the school they are transferring to. So what is the problem. Well the problem comes in that after this law was passed the triple a membership of the Arkansas activities association a non governmental agency passed rules on Arkansas state law to regulate school choice students who transferred after tenth grade. These students are not allowed to be full participants in varsity sports for three hundred sixty five days. Other restrictions imposed by the triple a on school choice student transfers include students having to obtain an athletic release from the district they are leaving to be able to eligible to participate in a varsity sport or activity of the district fair transferring to. How many of those do you think get side. So what is the solution. Well is to pass house bill eleven seventy one to allow school choice student to be a fully participating member of the school they are transferring to provided that they meet the academic and physical requirements it's that simple. To route the man that really was the intent of the school of school choice already. The truth this for non athlete the decision to school choice is the easy one. For an athlete under the way things are now if they want to transfer to a school that better meets their needs they can not be a fully participating member of the varsity team four three hundred and sixty five days so guess what. They choose to stay in the school that doesn't best meet their needs to simply be able to play ball. I have seen this as a school administrator for years now. I have looked to kids in the eyes time and time and time again and said welcome to my school sorry you can't participate that in that. Ask yourself was this the intent of the school choice legislation how many student athletes stay trapped where they are each year just so they can play ball. So what are the arguments against such a reasonable bill that has the best interest of the student in mind well. You're going to hear about how schools may start recruiting students as if this doesn't go on now. But ask yourself isn't that what school choice was designed to do. Do I know it is a superintendent have to advertise for school choice students every year. Is not the same thing is recruiting. DO are not as a supercharger if I recruited a student from another school to my culinary program or my furniture manufacturing program or my drone program would there be a room full of people to speak against this bill right now. With these students be restricted to in these programs note. But when it comes to athletics we limit the school choice students on purpose. If the school choice law was designed to encourage schools to step up their educational abilities through competition the washer athletic departments be any different. In other words as schools we should provide a quality athletic department our schools are our students may choose to leave. What about school recruiting. Well what about school recruiting. In Arkansas. And maybe you will understand this from the time the kid is old enough to play ball and they get ready to go play on the first little league team or their basketball team. If they're an athlete are they not recruited to those teams is the coach if you're a legal Little League coach or pee wee coach do not go out and start trying to find kids and say Hey come sign up I want you on my team. As a kid gets older in Arkansas when they get into a a U. ball. Do they not get recruited to that team. What about colleges is Nicks Sabin go to through the membership in Alabama and try to find players or does he recruit. What about produce in that what the draft is so basically in Arkansas through the entire process acute is recruited specially if they're an athlete. But it's unacceptable for that to happen in Arkansas. So ask yourself what is wrong with the kid who may have a personality conflict with their coach. Or peers. Or their receiver on a football team who throws the ball two times a game maybe they are sophomore junior and their coach left to ran the spray it. And they got a new coach who runs the vehicle but I want to go to college as a receiver. Or their division to athlete that is playing behind a division one athlete that is receiving all the tension. What if their kid at a bigger school who's a second stringer who could transferred to a small school and be a starter and get to play all the time instead of standing on the sidelines. What is wrong with them choosing to play sports at another school to better themselves and their opportunities as an athlete. If that student to get a better scholarship would it be worth it. This is an athlete whose family follows the legal paperwork to school choice their child so they maybe have a better school experience what is wrong with that. It's true that athletic competition may be affected by the six or seven outstanding athletes to transfer each year but for those athletes in the other ninety nine percent of kids who want to be a full participant on the team but currently don't get to it will be life changing. The triple a has data that says students who are involved in something performed better than students who were not involved so again it begs the question. Of why we will limit a child from full participation. Again this bill only applies to school choice students. By the way I'm not advocating for recruiting. But if you want to stop coaches from recruiting penalize the coach not the key it. If you want to stop kids from a route for our coaches from recruiting make it a death penalty in Arkansas on their license to coach again. Don't penalize the kit. What about leaving this decision to the triple a membership. I'll admit most athletic decision should be made by the triple a membership. However this one because of the intent of the law should be left to us the law makers. After all the school choice law was designate or designed to make all students a fully participating member of their school upon transfer. There are other arguments you'll hear but these are the main ones and I will be glad to address the others in my closing statements. And with that I'll be glad to take any questions. All right here we go Rachel are you for. Thank you Mr chair of represent all of that I think it's of. Really fortifies your all your arguments section one it refers to the public school choice act this opportunity. And of course we've always I think when we passed this before we thought about academics but opportunities opportunity. And some students stated they really are not going to have opportunity to advance themselves academically but they do have an athletic ability so I I think it's very appropriate that you you know you've included that language so that we know that we're talking about the opportunities school choice act I don't see you make a reference to a requirement and I assume it's a triple a requirement that the the coach or athletic director from the transferring district has to sign off but there's not anything in here that stipulates that that is not a required right that is triple a rule okay would you feel like the language that you that you have included here makes clear that that cannot be a requirement yes when it what I've asked bill are numerous times about this just to make sure that the language is clarified the way it needs to be if this bill is passed then it will exclude any regulation to stop a kid from being fully of full purchase of a school choice student from being a full participant in athletics the moment they transfer okay follows Mr and you're not doing anything to affect the cap that is in place the three percent cap of of of students that can transfer under school choice and you're not giving any preferential treatment in the the order of the students that apply for school choice is that correct correct the school choice law applies as he is they have to go through the the legal process of vetting students or innovating but accepting students in their district okay thank you thank Mr. A Representative of all. Thank you Mr chair of. Obviously a mobile option in the spectrum represent You know that I think one thing I'll ask you the first question if I get more than one. You know what what are we here for I mean are we here for the student's education are we here for athletics. I would argue both because a kid who's involved in athletics is going to be a better student the triple A.'s data supports that. Hi does so I've been there I've done this for about forty years and and like you say that the recruitment has been going out often on. And we know that of. But I've never heard a student look at me and say I'm leaving because get a better education they leave in because they don't like to coach Cozart the lands of the players stay done don't day don't did how would you say are they don't get to display their talents and that kind of deal so that's what I'm saying in the end so we brought it so the last I will make this in the form of a question so Don't you thank you if we allow this is just going to accelerate the recruiting. Well number one there's nothing that says that you have to allow recruiting again that's not what this bill does that say argument against it but that's not what this bill does with this bill does is allow an athlete who may be in a program who they have a personality conflict with the coach or maybe they're getting bullied on the team that their own or maybe like I said they're a sophomore junior and all the sudden they're coach changes the stock all changes and they don't have the looks or they're not going to to get the attention that they need to be able to get the scholarships that they need so why is that a bad thing for them to be able to transfer to another school to be able to meet the needs of that school to give that kid a better experience in school to be able to function better I mean if they're happy or an athletic program in a and it's it's dependent on my school if my school is not providing with that student athlete needs then that's a problem and it's a problem that needs to be addressed in this state and so if I'm providing with that athlete needs do you think that athletes going to transfer the answer is no but if I'm not it gives them the opportunity to do that. Unless a student comes in your district Is going to transfer in your district and everything's been paperwork everything's okay can you guarantee he's going to get what he needs is sure district entities if he's not. Is it okay let it go to another district well I will answer that with a real life example that one of the representatives at this table knows all about. I had a student a division one student who transferred to my school district. Guess what. It wasn't a very good fit for him. And so he transferred back to the school the next year they came from and they almost won a state championship. A school that just happens to be in my conference. Well good for that kid the you know why because that kid found what that kid need and that kid now has a division one scholarship from Louisiana tech university. We lost out on a great kid he transferred us but we couldn't meet that athletes needs so they went back. What's wrong with that. Good luck with that. But thank you Mr misrepresented thank thank but you're recognized. Good. It again. Okay In in this might be a question for someone comes up later but the the the the obvious question is is. Why does the triple I have the rule in place yeah I mean there's I mean one of things I could when you were talking I was thinking about was like well you mentioned that they have to do is to transferring athlete would have to meet the academic standards of the school that they transferred to the question would be then is if you did this immediately how would they be meeting that academics of the school to transfer into because they just transfer to that school and that I just saw my point is in a maybe it's better to wait if it took place here to speak for this but why as a rule in place the the rule is in place because I I I would and and lance can definitely expand on this my and my interpretation of that is it's just basically a soon to that that kid may have been recruited and so to keep kids from transferring just because they get mad at the CO two or to to you know if that kid was recruited the and basically when you choice over use it three sixty five that keeps athletes from bouncing and it may be that the neighboring team has a good team and so you know they may face other other athletes wanting to be a part of that team in transferring out other districts around them there's things like that but here's the thing they still have to follow the school choice law and it's still just an opportunity for that key it that's all we're providing here is just an opportunity for that kid to participate because that kids only going to be a kid one time. Follow. This is not really a problem but you might you might have this of the three percent that's allowed to transfer I'll close to schools get with that typically well it depends on what kind of school year on if you're my school then we didn't nine I don't know how many kids each and every year because you know the schools around me lose their three percent cap quickly they're trying to transferred into my district so you know they feel up there three percent I've lost two kids in six years to school choice so you know there's a lot of kids that are trying to get in my district and not very many get now. So my my concern would be then it with this and maybe this is for later discussion would be the then athlete could be taking a lot away from a child that wants to transfer into your drawing. program that you mentioned earlier right he sits about drone program because now that school. Met their three percent and can't transfer anybody yes they could but they can do that now if they want to transfer they would just have to sit for three sixty five if they warning or school bad enough they're going to transfer they just have to sit out and and I want to make this clear a lot of people miss inner interpret this and they think well if I'm in a low performing schools and I want to jump to high performing school that's not necessarily the case if somebody's been in education for twenty years and worked with the lowest performing schools in the state of Arkansas and been able to reform them all of them have the same issue the core issue to all school reform rest on one thing and that is that school has lost the highest standards of education the high standards that are put on key it's. Well if a low performing school sets those high standards and those kids media athletic. Opportunity. That can spill over to athletics and actually athletics can be used to reform the entire academic structure of the school district. And I'll tell you this you can speak to your principles you can speak to your superintendents asking what years they have more student issues years when they're winning their athletic teams are winning or years when they're athletic teams are losing. Athletics has that big effect on the academics of ever in the culture and climate of every school in the state of Arkansas. Smith. Thank you Mr. First of all the though educator I'd like to thank you for your commitment your love for your students in our youth in the state That being said the first question I would like to ask is we talked earlier about the triple a have you proposed this rule change to the triple a guidelines at all schools vote for eligibility rules. Well I'll tell you this it has no chance. I've been at this for years and I know better than to run this. If you have any idea how much backlash that I get off or trying to propose this I mean I of I hate. Let's just say I've been chewed up and down one side and the other for my stance on the **** for years have officially proposing thing through triple a no why because it will not make it that is a hundred percent guarantee the membership of the triple a there is no shot to get this third nine. Follow up question. Thank you. As a person who's actually coach for thirty eight years I'm understand a lot of your perspectives on this but my main concern. Is in the day of an age where we are working our hardest to take discipline out. Over educational system. I can see a problem with. An athlete in case is running away from discipline with this rule and you understand you saying that and you don't discipline is doing what you're supposed to do when it's supposed to be done how it's supposed to be done there's one certainty in life you're going to suffer through the pain to discipline or you're gonna separate them to find a disappointment. And I can see kids having a discipline problem in their school and sometimes it may be justified but in some instances I think it would be easy for them just to jump ship. And say Hey I'm not get along with this coach he's one the I'm not going to do the running he's told me to do because of what I've done so I'm just going to another school next year that's my problem and I also understand that in some cases it may be better per kid but if I'm not mistaken I think the triple a has hardship rules and I'd like to know when lance gets up there what percentage of those are approved or if a student does not fit. Into the situation they're in for physical or mental reasons that they can be they can ask for a hardship to transfer to another school without having to change districts is there You and is that true on that rule. At the. There is a hardship rule I don't know that it applies that broadly though okay thank violate lance answer that budget to address your other question on display I understand that kid doesn't just get to decide I'm leaving the school I'm going to that school there's a process to the S. and that's what this is is a school choice process that's cute would have to go to their parents and say I want to transfer to this school those parents would have to agree with that kid go follow the paperwork that school would have to accept them through the school choice law before that kid could get to that deal to avoid that discipline situation so I put the accountability back on the parent on that and the other thing is just because the kids would switch schools doesn't mean that that kid would necessarily be happy if the their school they may get to that other school and learned that the grass is not greener on the other side and want to go back but the the point is is that the kid that would be a learning lesson for them for life I will tell you this unequivocally sent school choice has been passed in the state of Arkansas I have at my school probably ten to fifteen percent of students who choice or or who are new to my school district do you have any idea the effect on test scores that is ten to fifteen percent each year is a whole new student body at my school. Guess what. Some of them don't like it some of them don't like the discipline and so they go to another school some of them will make it to every school in the entire county. But then they'll wake up and say oh this is where it was one of my proudest moments in my six year tenure at Barton. Was this I had a parent who got mad at us because we discipline their child left went to a private school wasn't happy there left went to two other public schools wasn't happy there went to the charter school wasn't happy there came back to Barton. On social media there is a parent who's dropping about my school that parent responded back and said let me tell you something my child has been to every school around. And this is where your kid needs to stay because it really is the best opportunity. That's what I want parents to say that's what I want students to say it may take them a moment to go through the learning process of that but if you can't learn as a kid if you can't make those mistakes and have the freedom to make those mistakes and those lot floorings as a kid when do you get that opportunity. So yes they may make a bad decision and transferred to another school. But you know what it may also make them grow up a little bit. Thank you. Replicants a. Thank you Mr chair and I do appreciate your bringing this bill I'm learning some things here just a couple questions here first of all with regard to school choice educate me as far as with this with the Max is it first come first serve orders a school board have leeway in who they choose to. To allow no no no it's a process so you have to evaluate what grade level they're going into whether you have the space and the staff to be able to to take those students if they were denied school choice the previous year then they get bumped up a priority I mean there's that there's a whole process that the students go through and I I mean I have students that are in my district I mean that that have been done not once or twice because they just haven't been able to bump up that to that level yet to be able to to to get in so so with that in mind one concern I have M. travel a couple kids on the same travel team decide to like to go with that one particular coach from school over here I'm a little concerned then said it's not first come first served understand why that there may be a tendency to have preferential moved across our basketball team or football team can be this year if we accept these three kids so if you that question with along with also the issue of virtual hopefully will continue to be so virtual but that makes a whole lot easier to just I'm just going to go play for this team over here being on virtual over there and then If Affleck with X. as you mentioned and I agree with that if it's important. To take a school. Then you can see my concern with the smaller school losing their best athletes to a bigger school if that is part of my I'm a I'm a supporter of athletics and other extra extra curriculum I believe it does make all kids better students a well rounded but you see my concern was smaller schools and we are losing them and it's a lesson packs if you can answer I know that is a after a mother together there's a lot there so I would say this you know if if the school district is prioritizing athletes to come in and through school choice the and I would say that that's wrong at am I going to sit here and tell you that won't go on no I'm not going to the that but I'm not also going to tell you that it probably goes on now to be honest with you especially if you get athlete early enough or they don't have to sit out for three hundred sixty five days and the district is losing I mean they'll release some then you know that probably goes on a high school coach cannot coach like a a U. ball or summer ball like that so that their they're not gonna be able to just you know coach him in the summer and then take them with them over to it'll be a different coach What what was your last question I'm sorry. Yes it was with regard to what we responding to your point that athletes athletics's agenda part an impact schools and also with regard to I do realize that they cannot that added that travel ball coaches cannot coach Public School vice versa but T. if traveled kids want to play together we like that coach over there let's all go together that was my thinking on thank you a lot of that I mean happens now in and they'll get a man in the elementary where is not a problem and they'll just roll on because like I said they're created in P. we error created in AAU ball at all at a at a young age and the recruiting mostly goes on through the parent channels not the coaching channels but in regard to your question of small schools losing athletes to big schools I would actually argue the case the other way around I'm more likely as a key aide who has some athletic potential but I may not be at the level of a six a or seven A. school and I just stand on the sideline most the time and I'm a second stringer there I'm probably more likely to leave that school district to go to a smaller district to participate and if that's the best thing for me if if I have the option of standing on the sideline or the option of playing what's in my best interest is the student and so if if I E. athlete from a smaller school can go to a larger school and be a starter and get more recognition or go to a school that plays on ESPN. And they get national recognition because I'm that good of an athlete. And I get more division one scholarships. If that's in my best interest what would be wrong with that. All right represent Lowery. Thank you it's been of. Brought to my attention that that you're amending actually two different school choice acts that the opportunities school choice act deals with a student transferring from an F. school or the school that's under intensive support to another school district and there is no cap on that car and I and I could see the certainly with section one that we want to give more opportunity to the student especially if they are and they have school you know my concern is that we focus so much on football. But this really deals with all interscholastic activities of that student say utilizing opportunities school choice at once to transferred out of an F. school but they want to participate in band or orchestra or something else that may be the school district that transferring to has been the one they're transferring out of does not have they still would have to wait the three hundred sixty five days correct even if it's banned. No not under this bill they wouldn't well done under this bill right but currently they yes they would have to set out three hundred sixty five days yeah yes so here and it's not just you know it's not just athletics that we're talking that's right yeah it's all everything under the umbrella of the Tripoli right that's correct so certainly under section one opportunity we are we are under current law. We're inhibiting op true opportunity for that student who's coming out of a failing school they are hoping to have a better academic experience which would include some of these other interscholastic activities and we're saying sorry no you really you're got to wait a year. so I I could certainly see Okay would you be amenable to to just changing that section of school choice of opportunity and and not the other one well here here's my here's my thing with this I'm I'm of the opinion that if the kid wants transfer because they want a better I mean date a kid is decided and they talk it over with their family. And their family decides that the best place for them is somewhere else then the school district that they're in that once they transfer no matter what the reason that they have the opportunity to be a full purchase of pent within that school. And I believe exactly what the intent of the school choice law was to start with it's just been a limited unfortunately. not in the law but has been limited by our of the regulations that have been put on it. Okay and those regulations have been put on it have not been statutory they have been the activities association's rules and wrecks correct okay thank you thank you for that clarification. Thank Mister Robson Murdock. Thank you chair. Thank you of represent all that we've talked off line into this was coming and so a couple things obviously I'm aware of the example that you give very much aware of intimately aware. But let's talk about what happened some unintended consequences of this I know the reason that I think I know the reason that you're you bring in this fourth. But this opens up doesn't this open up the floodgates of a non regulated situation and. It not being your intent but what this may. Would end up having what we would not only bring recruiting. At a high level possibly I want give you a chance to address this but also you feel if it bring real big money into this as well as a form of ID enhancement because when you say I can choice. I can just go Now is wide open and I'm eligible so eight U. T. X. summer teen. We don't go to either exclu why school is the school it becomes what school has the most money C. so your there's a whole other piece to this that I think. That's not intended that we have to just talk about this this discuss that because triple H. E. as I see it. They represent the regulatory piece of competition and activity. And if you take them out of it. Which is what this with specially would do if you take them out of it they who watches the store who watches the activity the actions the internet how these things move so I'm not saying that something should not happen it could not happen but what I'm. Concerned with is if we just take all the rains all. All the other things that will follow and I promise you there are people listening right now if this get out of here. The moneys lost our movement. And this will become I don't think you're talking about something else list tell me your concerns about that or have you even thought about this part yes I have thought about this part and and thank you for that question because it's it is a it is a valid concern to certain level I want to reiterate that this is a process this is a school choice process so there is a process that these kids have to go through both on their side as well as the receiving school side as far as the triple a they are the regulatory authority on athletics but the intent of this law was for kids to be able to school choice to be able to be a fully participating member of that school once they choice what is happened in this is the unintended consequence of what the triple a is passed is that for non athletes it's not a problem for choice but if you're an athlete then you face a terrible choice and the choice is transferred and sit three sixty five. Or. Stay where you are and be able to play ball that year and well for a kid what what choices that and so schools may use this in a in a negative way they may they may choose to do that but here's the thing if that school is that is losing those students is providing an atmosphere that those that students are happy in those students will stay where they are if they're providing quality athletics and yes you know there is a disparity between athletic facilities and everything else though really truly when it comes down to it a kid just wants to be somebody who's going to be able to play and to be able to win and that as a mate and that doesn't matter if it's a nineteen seventies jam or if it's you know an arena if that kid knows that they can win in. That's where they want to be and that's a good thing for a kid and so I will argue that. If schools even low performing schools if they have good F. athletics those kids are going to want to transfer in there and the and I'll use this the opposite way if I was a superintendent the low performing school and I was providing a good athletic department I would use my athletic department to build my academics I would use my athletic department to recruit kids instead a losing kids to hold kids to that school and still losing kids to make those kids coming in and out guess what all the send those kids have a sense of pride a sense of standard that you know they want to have a high level of competition well now I'm going to use that to transfer over to academics and say look you all are competing in athletics are winning now want you to get with it on the academics I want you to compete against the schools around us and let's show them what you can do. And if you use that correctly a low performing school this gives them the tool for a low performing school to turn it around and do it in a very quick manner. One quick follow up I absolutely agree with you about the what act would act what that lyrics came due to an academics into a community Derivative of what enticement would do and how far it will go parents getting jobs to move out of communities that there is a risk a real concern. Of the this really impairing the poor. Lower performing more poor than lower performing because people that have the resources will figure out a way to entice. People that don't have that have that have not you will find I think it's very very possible that so the three sixty five this go to the three sixty five three sixty five hold it takes a weight that part of the enticement gain so still would do. It takes that away you can put it on pause because I don't get that immediate deal okay I have to pay a year in advance so to speak so I think that takes away so I think that's my real issue my real concern as I sit here is this enticement please that I know was gonna blow up if this becomes available all right well I'm going to answer that and that's a very good question. And I will argue that it goes on now. The schools that have the ivory towers these nice facilities and school districts have what is it in Allen Texas to the spam I what fifty three million dollars on their football stadium look at what's going on in Arkansas. Are we saying that that doesn't happen already now. If there is a team who's playing on ESPN. Again some of the top teams at Texas. And I'm a good athlete what I'm not be anti star eighty to go in there and if I'm a good athlete it I mean and I'm in a fluid community. Do we not I think that you know some of these larger schools have in these a fluent communities can to. Find their parents jobs in getting houses and helpful movie and where they don't have to sit three sixty five so their kids can go play I'd argue goes on now. At that rate in Arkansas yes and here's the here's the thing if I'm a poor student I mean to the point of it doesn't matter if I'm living in this government housing or this government housing in the neighboring School District I can just go from Government House to Government House and go ahead and be fully eligible in that school district if I'm wealthy I can go rent me a place in that district stay there four nights a week and be immediately L. triple that is already going on where it catches the kids is the middle who can't just pick up and go over here or can't just afford to rent it already goes all. And so I would I would say that it already I mean it's already taking place and if you really want to get a kid and I'll tell you I had a kid that played in our conference against us that came from not our conference but from a larger school around us who transferred to a school in our conference because. his mother was only government assistance when from government housing there to Government House in the district just so her son this senior year could play ball on that team get better looks it better scholarship and everything else and here's the thing. We sent out we make that sound like it's a bad thing but that mother did what that mother should have done for their her key it. I don't think that's a bad thing and I may be the only person in the state of Arkansas who are you for that but I don't see where it's a bad thing and I don't see where we should have the we should limit a law that school choice is true school choice. That if my kid in the state of Arkansas can go to get a better opportunity a better scholarship have a better relationship with their peers or their coach or to play in the system that they feel is best for their kids why is that a bad thing. What is a Murdock we've got a couple had a connected you back in the queue. Yeah he wants to choice only I really need to address school choice to the Adam right back to you as that was that a couple been waiting for a little while represent Maddox you're recognized for a question. Thank you. So one thing you said that the it kind of concern me said he didn't even try to work with triple a because you knew I think you said you know at absolutely no chance of passing so what that means to me doesn't that imply that then the vast majority of all public and private schools in Arkansas disagree with your position on this if if if triple a if I had no way to get out of that would that imply that kind of like you just said I appreciated you may be the only one who thinks this way it in that kind of what this is I mean if there's no if triple a had no chance of passing it then that means most schools the vast majority schools don't like this policy is that correct that's a hundred percent credit the vast majority of schools do not like this policy why because they don't want their athletes going to another school district. Person of god for you're recognized. Thank you Mr just really quickly at and this may be what represented Murdock was wanting to ask about and about the school choice law and and the opportunity that we need to extend to students I I appreciate that viewpoint and I think it's been made by it by many of us in this room who agree whole heartedly with the importance of athletics and activities and school and how those can really facilitate positive learning experiences for students but I do think it's worth noting that in the original school choice law the intent is spelled out in statute in the purpose of the bill to be academic it it does say that the purpose is to provide enhanced opportunity for students to gain the knowledge and skills necessary for post secondary education and technical education or the world of work that's always the intent of the school choice and I again I agree that athletics can can facilitate that can be ancillary to those academic experiences but I do think it's worth calling out that if we are going to talk about the school choice law it was always intended to have an academic's focus can you speak a little bit to that I know that that we've talked about that a lot but it does in in the language of the school choice law pretty specifically say it is intended to be for academics yes and that's what that's what my bill amends this also allow a kid to transfer for athletic reasons to be a fully purchased by a man and and you know what there's a lot of kids that do transfer for academic reasons and and and I want to be clear about this there is only a handful athletes that if they transfer it actually makes a difference in the level of competition for the other ninety nine percent of kids that I've had to faces a new or as a school administrator and look in the eye and said welcome to my school you can't be a full participate at all they want to do is a be a part of the team they're probably gonna be riding the bench. But guess what and and and full for full transparency if they have a JV team they can fully participate in that JV team the problem is in small schools are maybe are mine you know we may have a basketball team that has seven people on it we don't have a JV team so guess what thank you can participate in practice but they can't play in the games for three hundred and sixty five days so this bill what it will do is expand that that opportunity it will also you know a lot of kids do want to be at this school for better academics but they still want to be involved in the athletic portion of that and so that would be my argument to that. Represent all and I just don't one million you have provided some additional clarity but I just wanna make sure the committee is fully clear. But on a point the represented Smith brought up and and what your answer was to the question when he asked about have you talked about this with triple a and and you made the comment in as an administrator and superintendent and in a public school district in Arkansas you made the comment I know better than to do that. Who is the governing body that would be making the decision on the rule changes you would be asking for is it is it the triple layers of the board if it's the board who makes up that board okay so let let me explain how this works art and and just to say this I have brought a very similar piece of legislation through mob former state Rep through this triple a kind of the I I guess you would say governing council there and before I even walked in the door when my friends who sits on that council says good luck it's dead when you walk in the door. the way this works is that if you want to propose a change to a rule you have to write it up you have to submitted to the triple eight it then goes to your activity district which are the schools are around you that regional activity district has devoted out of there then it will go to the ballot and I may be missing a process but then basically you would be voted on by the entire triple a membership well when I of smoking to my activity district to the people in it. I know it's debt. In fact there is only. Two other superintendents who would even be willing to stand with me on that so it's overwhelming death from the moment it even goes to my activity district but the the ultimate governing body of that is made up of voting members of the triple way of travel services schools get to decide which or who they designate as that voting member and then those voting members make up and that is reflected badly the superintendent's or the athletic directors of those member districts use okay thank you for the clarification represent Murdock your back up for question. Well I was going down the choice field I mean the choice of rolled I don't really want to do that I guess I think Representative she she addressed a little bit where I was going because the choice the only. Is not necessarily in my view positive. It's the the net effect of it is not positive for those that are left in what we do to try to supplement would take away would leave and then what's left are real people and that's a problem with me with choice anyway so let me so the choice thing is that nothing that I favor anyway as it currently because I don't think you could have good choice and you have equitable. But choices. So it's easy to choose between a Cadillac and a whatever vehicle you would call less than the capped that but when you make two Cadillacs. And I could choice between two Cadillacs there is more of a level playing field right now our choice game is not based on a level playing field so that that is that is a conversation for another time and I will be willing to have that conversation with you any time because I I wholeheartedly agree with okay but as it stands right now with this you know that I really with with the way it is now in the system that we have in the law that same place I think this is the best thing for the students thank you committee members we have one final question and she assured me it's a short one represented McKenzie you're recognized short superfast thank you Mister chair just for clarification and I misunderstand I did not think that band and choir and those other things require people to sit out and also I did stand corrected it does appear that high school coaches can coach travel teams just if you could clarify by those I'm sorry I I wasn't aware that I didn't my understanding was that they couldn't so I I apologize for that and lance can speak to all of that I'm not I'm not a you know. A hundred percent fluid and everything on triple a what was your other question I'm sorry. Good I members no other questions we have the one signed up to speak against the bill I believe first we have lance Taylor triple a Julie Walters with triple a. Jumoke on the table and identify yourself for the record please. First of all thank you Mister chair thank you committee for allowing us to be here today is very humble and sitting out here listening and identify yourself you all right all right I'm lance Taylor and executive director of the Arkansas activities association yes joy Walters deputy director of the Arkansas activities association thank you may proceed with the testimony. Thank you for allowing us to be here We've got to do some better education from the triple a because we were all over this room today and again. Always tell where where everybody when I go out and speak. I'm not to triple a we're not to trip away our schools under triple way every member school we have over five hundred twenty five get to vote on our rules every single year. So our schools or our trip away we're not to Tripoli we do just like you have a board a twenty board members who are all super Tennessee principles and that's the only people that can build on our rules are governed body or activity district that Representative tall let's say it nobody else Campbell only demonstration of the school so coaches athletic directors known those people can vote just principals and superintendents. I'm also might be the only person in here today to thank. We're about education. Work we are considered education based activities and education has always come first all lakes you're not even allowed to participate if your student if you don't pass for academic classes and have a two point no so again we're more restrictive with triple a eligibility rules any other any other organization because you cannot be eligible if you don't have a two point okay so again. The I think that's one the biggest mess of the triple way is that we make the rules we do not make the rules our schools make the rules so again I just wanna make sure everybody gets that. Representative tall it did mention we have nine actively districts across our state and geographically every school belongs to those and it doesn't matter if you're public school a charter school a nonpublic school whatever if you're member to triple Y. you belong and your ministration your superintendent or principal came proposed rules every single year in April is when we go out and we meet with all nine activity districts and although superintendents and principals and they can propose a rule change if it passes at that thank to be district it automatically goes in from all schools in all games that are governed body work all five hundred twenty five member schools get to come together and vote on that rule we have rules every year it actively districts thank you proposed that pass we also get some that fail and then they will bring back you know bring them back in kind of like the old process here it's the same thing they amend bills until they get the support of the superintendents and principals of their area and any passes so again that's that's our. I guess govern body how we propose rules of schools are allowed to do that in everything so again I will make sure I got a note down here just roll down. All nine athletics are eligible if you can transfer to school either by school board board board transfer or by school choice if you're in involved in non athletics you're eligible Dan Clark if if a if B. O. a expiation debate forensics all those activities if you can transfer your automatically eligible so I want it is long as you pass the for academic classes and have a two point oh let me make sure I put that in there okay. Hello read the bill I guess was a little bit different than was placed in here opportunities for school choice and I talked to secretary key. Is a school that is on level five academic distress. We do have a mechanism in a trip away for those students to apply for a hardship I did hear that word today. The triple a office has never denied a hardship from a student transferring from a level five school to another school. Never. So I just wanna make sure you understand that because again we're education Basil thank you it is leaving the student has made that decision to transfer from that school that's academically not doing will. They are eligible we could do our hardship process so we do have that process already in place we we we work with just a second skews the Secretary key every year and he helps us and keeps us informed of those schools at a level five. Let me make sure I understood because there's a lot of sense said I'm trying to think of all the questions I know you can ask for to me again but understanding yes on school choice if a student is leaving the school between six and seven seventy nine H. the ninth and ninth intent they can be eligible if they get the changes school's athletic participation form signed and that's for both superintendent sign it and the parents sign it and it saves three thanks the school their leave and say if we do not believe little Johnny. Has been recruited and then the superintendent of the receiving school says we do not recruit little Johnny and then the parents have to sign something saying they're not moving your child for athletic reasons and that you that child is eligible between six and seven seven eight eight and not not in teens okay so they do have a process to where they can be eligible. The other part of the bill because there's two parts of school choice and the second part deals with that that doctor Walters here of Drexel's issues thank you thank you Mr chair committee for allowing us to speak today and I want to spend my a minute or two about the section to. in the regular school choice law and has been alluded and it hasn't been looted here in in this meeting of the unintended consequences that may come out from this bill. as Mr call it represented totally did say this is not a very favorable bill with with our membership administrators coaches and athletic directors because of these potential unintended consequences. Number one is a student could. Literally not for academic before athletics transfer to four different schools in their high school careers after eighteenth grade level to create and twelfth grade based on athletics. The race is the need to learn how to work harder for playing time and be a part of the team and learn conflict resolution when you can simply just go to another school if you're not getting your way in terms of position or playing time. The values the sense of community and community spirit when a student every year DO everything I've been asked to do the junior in and sophomore year and then have move ins come in the senior year and take my position. Forces school personnel to coddle the to the desires of each individual student. What is best for them not what is best for the team and for the school. It would definitely encourage more illegal recruiting of sophomores and juniors. It definitely negatively affects the coach's ability to establish a team building culture and a sense of camaraderie. And it definitely would create potential inter district and inter district competitive in balances for small schools that may but up against large school districts students who cannot participate on five eighteenths but not good go next door to a smaller school and have an impact not only on that team that on that conference. And then as was alluded to earlier as well the unintended consequences of AAU basketball teams J. O. volleyball in club soccer players getting together and moving from school to school to play together so we believe these would be some unintended consequences that would would be a negative impact on athletics in our state. The general prepared to questions yes Sir yes represented makes you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman. The the the the questioner or the concern that I have for you gentlemen obviously athletics is based upon the whole idea of competition. And a lot of the concerns you've raised here are because you're afraid of these unintended consequences which are actually kind of based on comp competition between the different school districts and the concern that that I have here is often times we try to tighten rules down so hard in order to prevent these unintended consequences that will end up actually doing as we prohibit the good from taking place because we're trying to stop these these few wrongs you know you talk about a parent or student jumper from school school school that would require a parent to drive their kid to another district and you know what we don't like that districts are gonna drive into another disaster we don't like that disorder driving to another district and I don't know how many are are going to be doing that and. But not to. Totally make light of these concerns I'm wondering if there is some middle ground here instead of a three hundred sixty five days because I don't know what why you know maybe you can tell me there's a reason why of three hundred sixty five days is good but. Is there some middle ground were sixty days or ninety days might be more appropriate to kind of maybe dissuade from some of the things you've talked about but also at the same time not create a negative impact on the student who's having sat on a bench just because there's a rule when otherwise. Why not let the student ply. First all represent makes great question okay and that I think that's why the schools to the triple a which is our member schools have already and with the change in schools after they participation form that's why you can transfer between six and seven and seven eight and eight and not and not the tenth because you can sign it for me it is for the right reason that's duty can be eligible so again that processes is there but here's what you got it thank every time you you look at transfers and I think there's three different groups or groups that are affected by transfers first of all I'm going to leave the school that and in most of time it's a smaller school I'm gonna leave that school and I'm a pretty good actually and that team and those kids I've always grown up with they need me and now I'm will be removed from that in and what is that lead that group. Check of all I'm going to go to another school because I probably have a pretty good actually and I've got students there they have lived there their whole life and that's where they belong and now somebody's going to come in and and take their place based on athletics and maybe not academics and that that's what we do not want because we think it's so important to go for the academics and not the athletic park so again and in the third group is everybody that student gets to participate against which he should be because he should be back at his residence district so again there's a lot of variables there it's not very I mean they're all affected all three groups so that's also always a worry with the superintendents and principals in our state. Okay which. Everyone of those explanation was an anti competition we don't want to compete against you know other students that are already there are we don't we we what we want to keep our competition advantage for the small school but but my my question was why three hundred sixty five days why not make you something more reasonable maybe like in ninety days or six months or Some other number why make the the student wait a whole year because you're right maybe you know six seven eighth graders they've got time to make that change for what if you're an eleventh or twelfth grader right and again represent makes that would be something that I school could bring to the activity district came propose that again because I cannot change that rule we do not have the power our board does not have the power we allow our schools to board on our rules so they have to decide that into that so again that's what that to the triple a membership our schools to decide if the if they wanted to do something to make it less or county I guess okay so you you don't know why the three sixty five than what the schools are voted AT and for us to fall because you're moving for athletic reasons and not for academic reasons. Okay so again you don't know why they voted that and they just voted at yes Sir okay. There's no one else have any questions for for these presenters appreciate you being here today for your testimony. There's no is there anyone else signed up to speak for the bill. There is not represent all and you're recognized. Senate. Thank you Mr. I just wanna clarify a couple things and I guess I have a unique perspective on this whole situation since I am a state champion coach in the state of Arkansas. You for the well they may transfer and take my place argument. But I can tell you conclusively is a state champion coach if I have an athlete. That's in my district. And I get athlete from out of district. I bet you I want to find a way to use both of. You've heard. They can be eligible but then there's this if that falls the other districts signs their release. How may superintendents do you actually think sign releases. Because in my area I know superintendents who won't sign anybody's release. Whatever system you design. Someone will game it. If there is a better option for their kid then what is wrong with that kid pursuing that. It's true. Schools make the triple a rules. But who makes the rules for key it's. It's us is the legislators. And we have a school choice law that was made for kids. As a superintendent voting member of the triple a membership do you have any idea what kind of backlash I've received for running this bill. So believe me when I tell you. This is worth the fight. I want to leave you with this thought. Today you have heard all the reasons to keep things the same. To not rock the boat to protect the school districts and the sanctity of the triple a process but I'm going to close with the one reason you should pass this bill. Simply put. It should be all about the student. The new kid. At the new school. Who only has the chance to be a kid wants. Whose family made the decision to go through a valid legal process because they wanted a school that better met the needs of their child. If that was you and you are that student. Or if it was your child. And you were that parent. Or if you is your grandchild. What would you won't for their life. For them to be allowed to fully participate in their new school. Order sent out of something they love for three hundred and sixty five days. That is the decision I leave and the fate of your hands and I know the students would appreciate a good vote thank you. Represent all your clothes for your bill yes Sir what are the wishes of the committee. I have a motion to pass by represented Lowery. I would like to explain your motion any comments. And you have a motion Sir any debate or comments on the motion. Hearing none that will entertain a motion. Represent Maddox you're recognized. Well I manager to head I was going to discuss wine I cannot support this bill to jump ahead of him okay okay I thought there might be someone else when they come home I would briefly say well I'm not going to support this bill but I want to just say that represent all its passion I appreciate it I know it's coming from the right spot I just want to get back to the one thing that that I think was made abundantly clear the triple a is every school in Arkansas public private charter center and it seems to me the overwhelming support to is no no one is in support of this frankly because if they were they would do it themselves but we part of no one other no other schools no other entities that are in support of this I think we need to allow the triple a which is every school in Arkansas to govern themselves and begin operation resentful up to let but I I cannot support this bill thank you. Represent Maddox spoke against motions in one I speak for the motion. Guess motion represented Kinsey. Not really sure thank you Mister chair from speaking for against or what I am I just wanted to say I I appreciate him bringing the bill as well. The only response I would say is I think he's made some good points. I believe that the triple a everything they've said about that is charges when a point out. None of those elected officials the the the superintendence the athletic officials of different people have input on it so in fairness I do think we owe our constituents the parents the other folks in the community of voice that is well that having been said for the same concerns we've we've discussed here I don't think I can support at this time but just want to bring out there than it I appreciate the triple a I appreciate that the input and and and how they explain how the decisions are made but I didn't see anywhere on that list a voice for the people. Your comments represent Lowery. Yacht I just want to accentuate something that I think represent of Taglit brought out very. We've talked about his passion yeah and I don't want to. Attach Negative connotations to the decisions that are made by city school superintendents when they vote on issues related to The activities association. But I think a lot of times their decisions do certain The focus more on. Section of their districts interests. That can include students but I think that this debate really is about students it is about making sure. The the the absolute truth is there are a lot of students that. Their only opportunity their only path Ford to have preceding to post secondary education would be their participation in athletics of being recognized as being seen of being able to get the division to scholarship were division one scholarship that may be their only opportunity and this particular and what we have currently hinders that it puts a a vice grip on that ability for that student to better himself for that family to be able to provide the best opportunity for their child and are and I think for those reasons we really need to consider not whether it's going to give a competitive advantage to one school over another but whether it is going to give a true opportunity to students that may not have any other a path forward so for those reasons that's why I made the motion. Represent about you're recognized sorry I had to step out of my Senator was calling me and we are speaking on the motion right so I have. The comment was made that I kind of want to go back to in the testimony he said something about that. No super as the and then area signed by my daughter actually did this. And her super signed off on her moving and I mean he wasn't happy about it she was the picture of the softball team but she also was a very academic. Advantage child she did very well in school and so I don't think it's really that we have a lot of supers that won't sign off on letting a child move from one district to another M.. Soap and and that kind of worries me that we are open ended up. For letting kids do this at any point any time because I I know that there is a process and the process has worked I mean it may not work for every child that I mean my daughter is a perfect example of it does work so I just wanted to kind of put my feelings out there because of that I'll be but no. Your comments. Represent Deffenbaugh. Thank you I'm sorry drag this on one thing is alluded to speak several times that are youngsters missed an opportunity for scholarships but here's where I've seen it over over the the the a long period of time coach in an even more today is the. cruising is so sophisticated if you're good enough what I've seen is college coaches will find G. it doesn't matter if you're at large school in the state to the smallest ones date date five G. and so I I don't. I don't agree with the fact they're losing opportunity for scholarship thanks. See no other comment we have a motion on the floor to pass on house bill eleven seventy one. All those in favor the motion say aye. Opposed nay. Nays have it so I represent all H. bills failed. All right thank you all for the insurance Sir from my schedule what's up next. Applause to. Of eleven seventy two. Taglit you're recognized women travel one more day for on my as well going on this is actually hopefully it use your bill eleven seventy two is the is one that I brought before you essentially what it does is it moves of the what is in current rule into law concerning this state boards ability to revoke at twelve forty waivers and then it gives the school districts of course the new notice process Representative love last time that we talked about this bill you'd mentioned that you thought the US not only school superintendent but also the school district board president should receive notice of the replication of the waivers it's been amended on page one the line thirty that amendment has been made Representative Meeks line four you've made the comment that to to clarify when the state board could make the decision if if something had been messed up with the notice and so on line four page two it says until the notification requirement under this subdivision so it's it clarifies that they can move forward with that and with that I'll take any questions. For any questions. Well. With the extreme to another thank your Vice questioned out. That happened during its hungry before lunch so seeing no questions that I have no one signed up to speak for or against the that is there anyone in the audience will you have a question okay I do have a question over represent costs three I'm sorry to be that person thank you insert it present Allah and the last time there was a little bit of opposition from the department of that have you been able to collaborate with them and everybody feels okay understanding is there's no to no I mean they can speak for themselves but there's no opposition department great thank you thank you Mr. K. back to the audience anyone against the bill for the bill. Would you like to close for your bill I'm closed what will you do pass Feb motion do pass any discussion on the bill. Seeing none all those in favor say aye. He opposed no. Dang you pass the bill or. Congradulations. All right. we have one more on the list shall we try for one more. Evan Lowery. H. B. fourteen thirty. We do have a big schedule coming thirsty just let you all know we have a lot of bills will try to put the bill Thursday. One way or the other. What. Yeah eighty by one of Bapi today. In order to. All right reserved are you are recognized to present HB fourteen thirty. Thank you very very much but Mister chair and I was kind of worried is lot slow as I'm moving that it would take me so long to get down here to be time for lunch but anyway we have another bill related to extracurricular activities with your permission I'd like to have jury **** with the family council join me at the end of the table to be able to help with some clarification Mr **** you're recognized to take me on the table if you would just introduce yourself and who you're with when you get there please. Thank you Mr chair members of the committee. I'm Jerry **** I'm the director of family council here in Little Rock and also the director of the education alliance which is a division of family council that works with home schooled students and so in a sense I'm here representing both today so thank you Mr chair you're recognized to present thank you very much. One of the bills that I have been very proud of Passing was in two thousand thirteen and it certainly was not just because of my work but it was actually because of the work of the number of legislators that came before me and I I think one of them was the Secretary key when he was a legislator had tried to pass the Tim TiVo long if you're not familiar with with that I mean you everyone's familiar with Tim TiVo but the reason it's called that is city gives opportunity to home school students to be able to participate in extra curricular activities and TiVo's case that was football but as we've had a discussion today and you've heard these types of provisions relate to all types of extracurricular activities both athletic and also academic We've made a number of modifications through the years after we finally did pass in two thousand thirteen this particular provision that tend to build law one of the. One of the aspects that we approved and I believe this might have been in the two thousand seventeen session seventeen or nineteen is is being able to allow a student who is home schooled. To be able to participate in extra curricular activities in a district that is not their resident district if the two superintendents agree if the the the resident district superintendent signs off on it and if the accepting school district superintendent signs off on it but there have been situations where some superintendents in the resident district do not approve and so all we're doing here is allowing that transfer to happen even if that superintendent doesn't sign off on it if the activity that the student participate is participating in is not offered in the resident school district I mean there really shouldn't be any reason for the superintendent to not sign off but there have been instances where they've not and so that really is limiting the opportunity to that home school student so we're wanting to waive that say that in that particular case where the activity is not offered that the the signature is not required or the one of the authorization is not required by the district the resident district the other issue is and this is one that has been. Kind of the the little bit of a troubling aspects since we first pass the two thousand thirteen law we put in there provision that and and this was through conversations and and you know discussions with triple a that there should be a requirement or at least there should be language that says that the student you using the Tim Tebow law would have to attend one academic class. Of the actual wording of of the law in two thousand thirteen is that the school district may require the attendance of one class. We run into numerous situations since two thousand thirteen where superintendents or the triple a or whoever have actually invites districts that that that is a requirement it is a mandate it is not a mandate. I thought I. Really have taking court great pride in hearing some superintendents talk about how much they love this opportunity this tent developer TT because a lot of times they do get students who you know gladly take one class and actually the more that they're at the school they actually end up taking more than one class in that they've been a very welcome addition to the public schools that I remember I think it was Steve Anderson with the lake Hamilton school district told me that you know he used to recruit he would reach out to home school parents to families and say listen we would love to have your students and here's of activities that we offered that to your student could use the T. bill law to be able to come to lake Hamilton and take courses if they want but also participate in activities so what we're wanting to do with this particular aspect is to removal and let me renew refresh my iPad here Remove the requirement Language the language has been very unclear to people of whether it is a mandate or not so what we're wanting to do is to remove the requirement. Even the may language of that it that that a one course offering or the student taking one course be required and one of the reasons why that has been problematic is sometimes the the activity may be a late afternoon activity that they're participating in but the course that they would be taking or required to take or told that they're required to take would be offered in the morning so they would have to come back. Go to school take the class go back home come back later and sometimes many times that interferes with the their actual home schooling so we're wanting to vote to remove that provision that says that a man that a school district may require attendance of one class so that is the as much of the summaries I can provided to and let me just turn it over to Mr Cox's to give any clarification which that there may be some need for that. thank you representable Lowery and thank you Mister chair and members of the committee I appreciate you looking at this at this issue the table law has been in effect since twenty thirteen so it's been around for awhile. At my office I have one full time employee that just works with home schoolers her name is Lisa crook and we have a separate office call the education alliance and so she hears all the issues that home schoolers call us with we probably have around five thousand home school families that are part of our network so considering they're probably around thirty thousand home schooled kids in Arkansas it's a sizeable number of the home school families there voluntarily apart of our work and so I will tell you. For the last eight years Lisa has been coming down my office in saying we have another problem with triple a trying to force a school to force a home schooled kid to take a class when the school doesn't want to and the losses that they don't have to but triple a says will but we have a rule that now requires this and so what we have is a a collision here between the triple a rule and state law state law says that it's per Missy it it's it they may be required to take no more than one class it doesn't say they have to. But I could quote you time and time again when schools and have told the parent I called triple a interpolates the No you got to have the kids got to be enrolled in a course. And with some of the situations the school actually has to travel for even the practice on the extracurricular activity like swimming for example there is a smaller school in west Arkansas they were having to drive to Fort Smith in order to do their practice for swimming and it was taking a good bit of the day in the school said well we don't want you to have to be in a course but triple a says you have to and the kids said well by the time I drive to Fort Smith into swimming I don't really have time the end to do a course at the school and still be mark my regular home school work and so it's it's a problem and it in a way I think I wish we didn't have to bring this problem to the legislature because if this were an issue like some of the issues that Commissioner key and I deal with where a superintendent says we're gonna make a home school or do something that's outside the scope of the law I have a department of education that will call the superintendent and explain the law to them. But with this situation with triple a kind of orbiting outside of all that I don't have anybody to come to accept you guys it with some of this and that's why the home school law reads the way it does in some of these areas I'll give you another the situation that Representative Lowery mention. We had a a student in Pulaski County they wanted to he was a home schooler and it was not enrolled in public school but he wanted to do swimming and that his particular school where his resident school would be they don't offer swimming so under the law the way it is right now the superintendent in the resident school district and the superintendent in the receiving district have to both sign off well the superintendent in the receiving district said come on over we got a swimming pool come swing with us we'll let you your home school or we want you. But the resident superintendent did not I'd the the request and said no I'm not going to let you even though the kid was not even enrolled in the public school because he's a home schooler for whatever reason the superintendent said no. And and so for some of these things there's really no rational basis for people doing that even the one course requirement there's really no rational basis for that of the people just think well we kinda like to do that we kinda like to make you take a class because we found absolutely no evidence that is required for any kind of insurance purposes or any of that and by the way we've asked triple a they've said it's for insurance purposes catastrophic insurance we've asked please show us and it's been eight years and we still haven't seen chapter and verse of where that is really required it even if it were there's no requirement that the kid have to have insurance as far as the schools are concerned I mean the parent could take out a policy against if they wanted to about the kid get hurt and so it just feels like this is just. People being a difficult and a and may be in a nun unnecessary way the table all works real well when it works the way the legislature specified it and so that's what we would like to to see it so it's three things. Superintendent. out here that that in a resident district if they don't offer wrestling or swimming they can't tell home school Cutie can't go next door and wrestler swim if the other district will take you the second thing is home schooled kid that wants to do TiVo at the school he already has to jump through every hoop that every other kid does that the school he's got a show of grades he's got to show up for practice pass a drug test DO everything he's supposed to and so we see no rational basis to make you take a class on top of that and then thirdly there shouldn't be other entities out here that the in a way you syrup state law state law says you may and then they turn around and say you shall take a class into us that seems like it over step of what of what their role should be so we're just asking you got you all to help us fix that it if you can't. Let me just let me just jump in here before so I know that there's probably someone signed up to speak against it this was not intended to be bash triple a day of. I did we did not coordinate that with his Representative told let him running is it's just one of those things that happens but but let me just say that you know we have had conversation I've had conversations with Mister Taylor with triple a when we the when these issues sometimes anecdotal that come up around the state where as school district is being told or their hearing or what however it's coming up that the attendance of the classes mandatory and Mr Taylor it did last Taylor is said listen you know we've sent out a memo clarifying it we're you know we're clarified but there still seems to be this mis characterization of what the law yes what what law you passed that it is permissive language it is not mandatory so the easiest way to take care of this we don't have to have memos from triple a we just remove completely the required class the other thing that I would clarify is that what that it was presented to us in two thousand thirteen that the reason for this would be that the this is the only way that the student can be covered by a catastrophic insurance policy. That the school district would have for the student course that would mostly just apply to student this may be in a contact sport football basketball sometimes a contact sport. I I requested a copy of the insurance binder and I did receive that triple a did send that to me and fortunately you being chair of insurance and commerce and having worked around the insurance business side I have a little bit of an ability to read a binder and I can take it the insurance binder does not say anything about required attendance in the school. With the student to be covered by the catastrophic claim. Even if it did the parent of the home school student could sign a waiver saying we understand that our our child is not gonna be covered by this we will get our own insurance so that really has been the only issue that we've ever heard is the reason for the required attendance of a class so and I I know that triploid will probably offer more clarification on that and I'm glad that will have an opportunity to close to be able to make any rejoinder to to what they say so for that for that part out I'll go ahead and finish and and allow the question the other opposing speakers to come we have a quite a few questions I have just one little statement kind of a question statement but I always thought when when we worked on these in the past the one the one class kind of the of the kids in the school kind of get to know that person and get a were they could to be part of it is to just sports until we see in the sports person or the team but I thought that one that one class come let him get into the school and every people other people get to know them and some of the teachers get to also I would like to one class I understand we have had some of. Also bone is that it's somebody or shall and I know we felt that back and forth so I'm one of that's just my statement that's not a question to you I just want to say that because I just got a couple my mind represent Brown Europe first. Thank you Mr chair I guess this question is going to be for Mr **** and this is my first year on this committee so. Beg your pardon at this is a dumb question Is there ever a situation or or in any of their years what it calls a problem if this home schooled student was enrolled in a academic class at a school but wanted to participate in an athletic activity or for the next is it all extra curricular activities like band or something at another to the TVS represent around the table law focuses on triple a sanctioned interscholastic activities which would include this is been pointed out in previous bill. Sports but also band choir debate different things like that but yes but with regard to could they be enrolled in a. Academic class at this school and I want to trick you go over to this other school for this extra curricular I believe the I believe the law would permit that I do because you can enroll as a nonpublic school students in academic classes in New York resident school you can do that in your resident school now they could not be in more than one athletic act or interscholastic activities law does prohibit that she couldn't go play basketball for Robinson high school and B. and baseball at Mayflower or something like that but you could be in an academic course in your resident school district and then I believe the law would allow you to play outside your your district if if you have an agreement between the local superintendent were usually of and the receiving district where you go. Now this law just deals with situations where the home district doesn't offer the activity and the kid is a home schooler and wants to go outside the district. If I didn't answer the question we have you have your second problem. Correct. With that. I'm never mind. That's all right I do that the office but the you know I had to but that's all right if you have a follow up you go it. Well I repeated my question because he didn't fully. That's all I just wanted this drug because it kind of funding issues and things like that if they're in an academic class they are eligible for one six the day of the funding is what I'm told and they're funding experts I'm sure they could educate me more on that but they do get for academic classes they do give like for one one six or whatever of of funding thank you Mr further eligible for that purpose but you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman I guess I'd like to ask the same question I asked to represent of Taglit have you guys propose this to the triple a and in this situation. I understand that a member school has to make this proposal it can't be an individual but it seems like the school that the student would be. Going to play sports would be willing to make that proposal to the Arkansas activities association. Well I can do that but if you go head okay well I would say the difference here is you're talking about home school who they are they're not resident members of the triple way I mean the home schooled student does not have that. Represent they don't have that Representative at the triple a I understand that but with the school that they were wanting to participate at they would become a member of that school's athletic teams it seems that school would be willing to propose this to the Arkansas activities as a because I really do have representation once they tried to play athletics at that's member school well that is possible but at the point that we do have statute on the books that Really should be very clear and and you know the really the real concern is having an outside entity passing rules or regulations that really but up against what the legislature voted on and it was not even up to I'll just tell you it was not a close vote I mean it that the original TiVo ball Bill though we did have to do a lot of compromise language with the triple play it it pass pretty handily and then all the revisions that have been made through the years there's not been eight any push back at all. Jerry do you have another. Well just to the point of the local school and you are correct I believe that the local school could raise that issue because that local school would be a member of triple a I think we are dealing with the situation though where many schools. They have a home schooled kid who walks in the door and says I'm home school or I want to play basketball in somebody picks up the phone and called triple a and says what do we need to do and they say well make you take a class and so they hang up the phone and they look at the parent and say you got to take a class and that that's about as far is it seems to go as far as my understanding of it and so maybe I don't know if it's helping or not yeah follow up question. Also on the rule of transferring to or going to another school district if they offer a sport that the other school does not have my concern there is a a smaller school possibly that doesn't offer swimming. for instance has a six ten basketball player he decides he wants to be a springboard diver at a larger school that does have swimming but he goes over stars on the basketball team that's a concern of mine as far as recruiting opening recruiting even through home school kids so can a student I'm asking transfer because he wants to play a sport not offered but yet participate in other sports as well. If if that student has been enrolled in a a triple a member school as an athlete then that three hundred and sixty five days that you all we were talking about in the previous bill that applies to them now if he is not enrolled in the school not enrolled in any school but he's a home schooler in he says I want to go next door over here and I want to do an active and activity at that point then the way this bill would read the home school district would not be able to deny that student's ability to go over there they've that he could go if the receiving district said yes we will take him that's not that's out would read and how would be thank you. Got for. Thank you Mister chair and I think the point about the the one quarters it seems very obvious to me why that's a requirement or even a recommendation maybe it's my misunderstanding but. My understanding is that some of these. Activities meet during the school day so the concert band meets during fourth period that cheerleading team practices during sixth period the football team or you know whatever athletics meet during seventh period and then go into the after school practice time and so for me that that makes sense for why schools may want to require that one Peery and not just for any random academic cluster connection but because that corners is actually for the the activity itself so I can I can understand why a band director may be concerned that a student who's L. permitted to be in the marching band is not having that fifty minute fifth period band tying daily or why you know a student from home school wants to be on the cheer squad but isn't in sixth period sheer class and so I just wondered if I mean that that concern has been raised it to me that's the most obvious reason for schools wanting to require the one carried connections so that students are. Having that pump this time that that and you know cohesion with the rest of their team or the rest of their activity during the school day where that practices happening in addition to any before or after school practices will in the table legislation makes it very clear that the student has to comply with all the other requirements for participation in that act that activity if it if there are tryouts they have to go through trials if there are practices they have to go through practices they can't just show up and say I want to be I want to be the star of the the the theater program so it certainly does clear things up make things easier about that classroom participation if the opportunity activity is offered during the class within the you know it's win win the school district gets one six funding for the student attending that class the student the home school student is complying then with all the other requirements for the extracurricular activity and everyone's happy it just comes down to situations where there may not be a Class tied to an activity. Saying to the student you have to take another class you have to take a class in addition to this after school extracurricular activity that's really been where they're at the sticking point has been ballot may I met Mister chair may may I add on to miss but what works in Lowery was was explaining their you may okay thank you. The in the in my apologies for this be more complicated than it probably is. But let me say once again to make it very clear it band meets during six period the kid has to be there six period to band practice if choir meets third period they got to be there third period for choir that is already in the tea bowl law it says you've got to do everything that's required for that class so if it takes two periods today for practice you got to be there to period today. What is being told now is that the school has the ability to add on to that. And maybe require an additional class or like with football it say that it meets seventh period and then they practice after school they say yeah but you still need to take the English need to enroll in an English class or you need to do this or that so it's an add on to what is already required not a not a getting out of the thing it is is what trump what we're trying to say and so they've got a jump through every hoop and take every class and do all that that the activity requires so thank my apologies for prolonging that appreciate the clarification okay that's helpful thank you Mr. Mr **** you keep saying that the they're being told they have to. Be required who requires that well here's what what's been going on and When you look at the the triple a handbook it's just not clear about what that one course requirement means and I I should've brought to him book I guess it read read out of it but I double checked with one of my staff just down this is just not clear the way it's written in the handbook you know we just we have talked about this year after year and I have talked with the triple a many times they do not require that and it has to come from the superintendents that would be requiring that because I know that last week we tried to clear this up two years ago or four years ago by not making sure that the super tennis news that they did not have to this was may not shall and so I think your lan while the boring and I'm not. Pourtant back at you but your level of level triple lay that I believe probably blame somebody else it may be the superintendent by what that student there for that one sixty funding more so than the triple level some to have that course well in in the but I had that whether it's coming from the superintendent or triple a it still remains that the student wants to go there they want to do the activity the law allows them to do that in by putting this additional requirement in there it's it seems well it at least a necessary in order for the student to exercise the opportunity because they want to they want to be in the band they want to be in the choir they want to play football and they're getting an education otherwise many of these kids are taking college classes already and so forth so that's that's what we're trying to fix and I just said the in in the early years of the implementation of this commissioner Kimbrel time Kimbrel actually sent a memo out to school superintendents clarifying and he even said he was going to call what meetings and saying listen this does not require a school attendance in a school class and they're still has continued to be these these issues out there and so you know our our feeling is if we just remove that provision completely then there's no confusion or I mean there you don't have to worry about whether it's a may or shall I still have two to more and we need to hurry because I'm losing of like flies or flat all creditors okay represented back you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman my questions. Maybe a little bit redundant on your question is you the example you guys gave were was that a resident. District superintendent had to sign off before the child could go to the other so my first question is this. Earlier on. We heard that the resident superintendent. From the school that the child was leaving from was only required to sign something that said that they were not recruited at least that's what I understood it so. I find there's some confusion there maybe you guys are to guys answer maybe the trip was a commitment to that level you know. If that's the case if we if they're just signing up that the child wasn't recruited then it makes no sense to have that person signing off in the first place because they how would they know they're recruited their home schoolers so that's that's that question but then the other thing is is the. Taking taking the the may be out of this. Takes the superintendent who are members of triple lay. Out of the equation because that that may give still superintendents the the power not the triple play it's the superintendents that so my question then would be is I I I'm not saying I'm for or against the bill but the issue is here is is this against the triple A.'s authority ours this against the superintendent's authority to require class. I've I don't know that it's really against anything as much as it is to provide clarity because a lot of times the superintendents as Jerry mentioned earlier they're saying listen we don't want to require we do not want to require the student to have to take a class but we're being told. That it is required. And sometimes they're saying that they're being told by the triple way that it's required and and we're just trying to clarify this thing so that there isn't any confusion frankly the only way to do that is just remove the whole provision about the required one class attendance. Just a quick follow up yes please her. The then in that the. The the the concern I have is this the rule clearly states may what does not you know anyone that would say different than that you know they're just not following the rules all right so we're making another rule that the people who didn't follow the previous rule are gonna follow we think. Well you for your you're actually putting into words the angst that I have gone through since two thousand and thirteen because we feel like every time we we make it clear we asked the commissioner to send out a memo. Commissioner Kimberly took electric you know what education co ops spoke to them they're still continues to be problems and so the problem really is even in just having that provision you also mentioned the the the waiver on shall not that the student is not been recruited that is not part of T. bill that there's not any any provision in there and part I believe part of this bill also says that no additional regulations can be attached to T. bill other than what is in this statute that would include saying well we want a statement say triple a decides that they want to enforce a statement that the students not been recruited the lessons in this statute it would not be allowed. Representative of all. Thank you Mr chair a red hat after this this the after this is a get a little bit confused so right now the way the rule reads if they have let's say forty track. is that can is there only class they have to take. Yes okay Sir so that does it all right so what so what weird we're doing here is what you're proposing is to do away with that totally no. Eight again it doesn't remove the provisions that say that the student has to participate in tryouts practices you know whenever the practice is done they have to participate in that okay so it doesn't remove that it still puts those stipulations on the student it just says clarifies that they don't have to take a day academic course in addition to whatever activity they're participating in so that had to be there during fourth period right yes okay okay thanks. All right I have no more questions from members. we're going to bring it up but we have to signed up in its basically it's Blanche Taylor enjoyed. Thank you said Walton. Walter's lawsuit now the route as bad as I do. Lance I would ask all of you all have the same testimony please just kind of stick to one of you all that it would be due to time we are going to be for us to get through here real quick so anyway political Speaker I believe or speak against the bill yes Sir. Of state your name if you would please lance Taylor with the Arkansas activities association again thank you for the opportunity We worked with and Senator Ricky. Was down the other end and overseen today and we work with them and representatives Lowery and and collections clocks and we came to a compromise because we knew that home school kids needed opportunity for competition and for our activities so we agreed and we have agreed to three different loss because there's there's three now their first of all be ineligible back in two thousand thirteen GS deal with your resident school district. And then the next one came was where I don't want to play my resident school district I want to go play for another school and sole your transfer sold in that language is the same rules for all other students it doesn't matter if you're in a public school you're in a charter school for non public school you transfer for athletic reasons you would probably be ineligible for three and sixty five days and there's one for private schools and it's the same rule so what we try to do what we're making rules is treat everyone the same all of our students because again we don't want one they don't have to has advantage over all the other student and that's what this does. We at the triple a office do not do not violate the law we follow all laws thank you all have passed all three of them so let me make sure we're very clear on that that's our job. Dr Kamrul. Is my brother in law were made to sisters so. Dr Campbell did go out and do that and help us when it first got passed because we had to educate all whole new group of super tenets and principles out there they have never deal with home school students so we did that in here great I go up to speak at a cost and he went out and spoke at a different time than other costs so we work together and he helped me try to educate everybody across the state so we could make sure that we were off almost the same the same things. If this past we're going to treat home school students differently than all other student's resident school district virtual school district again if your virtual student in your member of the Arkansas connections academy and been bill or the Arkansas virtual academy here you still have to D. N. one peer today and that's may. Okay again that's not shall it's may that's the superintendent's decision at that school the call just to thank them in represented that left back here hit run on and now it's about finding. It calls to have activities and the only way they can get that is that those students are there at least one period they may be there because they receive funding so again and any student that does even though the home schooled student that transfers. Can still go to that school and be eligible for they inquire if if they all those same soldier academic credits they're eligible even though they might not be eligible for athletic so again there's a lot of different things floating around in here today so again we just wanna make sure that were were on par there of we're not require an approval. It's just agreement and it's not in writing is just one superintendents say Hey we got this on for once transfer over here yeah that's fine with me and then they're gonna be eligible so again. It there's nothing written or don't see S. A. P. forms just to two super tennis after greed by law that's it. We don't think the bill increases participation we thank participation for homes schools might increase but particularly not the other people that are transferred so again what we're trying to do here St I'm all the same because it's easier for everybody if nobody has it advantage so again if you gonna remember for a home schooled student to be eligible for a year now semester everybody else in the public schools or the charter schools or private school they base their eligibility on passing for and having a two point old home school students only have to take a norm referenced tests every twelve months M. score a thirtieth percentile they see it so again it's not apples apples there but everything else when it was building in transfer rules everything is the same so that's what we want to make sure that we got up here to speak against this because again there's a way to make the amounts for now any of his work. Any and every time that we have something that's not told right you see Jerry calls Mr **** called me and I call that school say Hey he's made it that's that's a school decision is not required so again I have work I think every time that you called me I have worked with you to make sure I'm notified that school about the law. So again under current law already allows for immediate eligibility for participated not athletic to triple a if the so again I'm sorry I did that took too long maybe chair I'm sorry but again I just wanna make sure that our rules or across the board right now. The right questions yes Sir right to make. SMIC's. Thank you Mr chairman first off I want to start kind of with a concern and question your original statement was that you approved of the home school stuff and understanding that that's not your job to approve of that stuff that's our job to do approved laws and stuff so maybe just a change of language there will but yes but but that is something that kind of caught caught my attention my my question goes bill gets into about trying to keep things. Things you know the same a level playing field and and and I'm fine with that but I guess my question is I don't the. The requirements of like moving different districts and stuff I don't see how passage of this bill creates some sort of different advantage for home schooled versus traditional schools that was one of your arguments against this is that somehow by passing this home school students would get an advantage that. Public school students don't have well in my understanding that argument what I'm interested in and maybe I'm wrong so I just want to clear my what your question yes Is Your transformed for athletics you're you're not transferring for academics were education based activities association so again. Worked to increase our were about education and and sold for any private transfers for athletic his goal and so any any other student in a public school or charter school or non public transport athletics would not be eligible for the first year. Right and and that and that and that would be consistent if it was a an event so for example the question that was raised their swimming if my local school didn't have swimming and I want to transfer over to the adjacent school to take swimming that student would still have to sit out a year. Yes Sir except in that situation and I'm very aware of that I that I know of that's happening here in our county is they did offer swimming the one on the state championship level that together school was that a school coach might have been involved in and so that the child was wonderful the coach so again that's one of the school that that school did offer swimming in the case that I'm talking about anyway. that in the the last question I have is kind of related to that is the home schooled student considered even though they may not be taking any classes whatsoever at the poll hello public school is that home school student considered a member of that school. Even though they've not had anything to do with that school district. And now they're wanting to go to this other district yes wine or whatever. They still have to wait a year even though it had nothing to do with the local. Resident district is that correct that is correct any situation they could if they want to swim for that school they were choosing which school to go to for swimming and set of just being able provided so again in our rules they're transferring for athletic reasons which are public school students are charter school students in our non public schools cannot do. The reserve bank you're recognized. You have a question. Just a quick question. If I transferred to play basketball with the school that I went to Aftab playing bass but does that count as a. One of the school get one six for that basketball period are is that an actor is hello hello I'm understanding that those sixty eight key signal here but I don't I'm going to answer is because of call him so often ask questions is it's long if it's during the school day they would receive that one six funding yes thank. All right see no more questions. Thank you Sir for your testimony. Representative Lowery would you like to close for your bill you don't want to. Hello your to slow getting the other apostles Love. Let me just briefly say you know we are we are really through the years try to work hard with all the different entities and and there's been a lot of cooperation in some cases but there still is just a there's a lot of confusion and we feel like this legislation actually. adds clarity to to the delirious changes that have been made through the years and you know again that just like you the the the earlier bill we heard it's about opportunity and you know I I agree the chairman because our with your point I've always really favored the idea of a student being part is even if it's just one class a part of the environment of that school you know there there could be probably some real hard feelings if a home schooled student comes in and they just swoop in and they take a spot on the basketball team and they're really not apart even in a small way the student body and in many cases the students do voluntarily want to take the one class whether it's required or not because they do want to be part of that in those cases cooperation it is more important that I think following a law that is misunderstood so for these reasons I I would ask for your your support of this and I make a motion to pass. We have a motion to pass the discussion. Representable. Thank you Mr chair am home school parent and I have some of my kids are able to keep his place board to some over before you know T. both of I have had probably half a dozen different instances in my time legislature where some form of the confusion that you all described of happen to a different school districts it within my district a hundred percent of the time Mr Taylor has been absolutely wonderful and I think we've even gotten on conference calls superintendents and parents at the same time to help clear up this confusion so so it does exist and and I have like I said props to Mr Taylor and triple a because they have repeatedly you know clarify when it was necessary of one thing I want to make note of. Just where members Taylor might disagree just to hear you know he said in the system or. When he was talking that the home school students you know might have an advantage and he didn't want to be treated differently of I think it's okay in this instance treating different because they are different because they're not leaving one program I thank to Mr makes a point of trying to make earlier they are a little different because are not leave in one district to go to another one to start that activity they're starting fresh so I think you know it is it's a fair point maybe that they are different He said that in and again Mr Taylor I appreciate her much all the hope you provided in your clarity over the years and I think it's a great thing to try to clarify this a law just make it simple because I think at the end of the day we're not changing anything we're just making a process clear and so I I hope everybody will support this motion. Or any other discussion. Seeing none. We have a motion do pass holders labor say aye ACT All opposed no. I believe it does have a. Seeing no hands. Your question motion thank you very much. That is all we have today. we will be really full on Thursday so come prepared and without objection we are