Joint Budget Committee

Members of the U. go ahead take your seats are going to go ahead get started. You're in the back go hadn't come for take your seat. First up we've got a personal subcommittee. Okay we're going to skip over that were waiting on Senator Davis of next would be the claims committee Senator Ballinger. You're recognized thank you Mr chairman of the claims committee met on Tuesday March sixteenth two thousand twenty one so Committee affirm the rulings of the claims commission as eleven denied and dismissed and build by claimants and want to go sit agreement in addition the subcommittee reverses decision of the claims commission on one case I move adoption of the report. Thank you senator brick I think we have a question Robson Springer. Good morning thank you Mr chair I was just curious about the case that was recall was so compelling that it was reversed in the ward was made of a hundred thousand dollars so. It I'm I'm happy to answer that it was a case of a family that had went off the road and in Little Rock and was caught in a in a basically it's a drainage ditch or or a reservoir in the the nine one one call had been had been looped around several places and it took a really long time for people to get to them that they passed away and so is basically a claim for for their state the the reason why they felt compelled and and it was dismissed and and probably dismissed on on reasonable grounds because the liability for the state is probably minimalist if the drop at all but the the situation was that this been going on for eight years they filed in in circuit court because of munity it was dismissed in the circuit court told him to go the claims commission went claims commission claims commission said you know we don't have liability and dismissed their claims and it come to us and so I think the committee just felt like that there should be some sort of closure something given to the the family and so they made a motion of a hundred thousand dollars. You have any other questions. Thank. Thank you. All right members I sing other questions we've got a motion to adopt got a second all those in favor signify by saying aye All opposed. Motion carries of art we're gonna circle right back to the personnel subcommittee report Senator Davis. I'm I'm so what I say personnel report. If you had it your button and you're recognized to present through. To get knowledge me I'm sorry. I can't hear. The members let's hold it down over there Senate she can understand what's going on back here. Thank you are recognized to present the personnel subcommittee thank you Mr chairman the personnel subcommittee of JDC met Tuesday March sixteenth interview the items listed in the report items one through three or member amendments adopted and released back to J. B. C. as recommended. Item four is an appropriation bill that was adopted in release back to ABC as recommended item five an appropriation bill and an amendment by the bill sponsor The Amendment was adopted in the bill is released back to J. B. C. as amended. And recommended I'll be happy to answer any questions and may we adopt the report at the appropriate time thank you. All right thank you I do believe that DFA would like to have make some comments on house bill twelve seventy seven. Just I recognize yourself to for the committee in you're welcome C.. R. J. Cui DFA office of budget house bill twelve seventy seven went to personnel this week it is a bill that would add four positions to the DFA appropriation act for of an office of hearing impairment. Without speaking to whether or not those services to be provided under that bill are necessary it's an appropriate of use for the funds this is not of funded in the budget it was not something that we have requested is not in the governor's balance budget and DFA really does not have the capacity or the where with all to provide the services in question. All right thank you members with any questions. All right seeing none thank you Sir. Some other area all right hold on one second. All right center Chesterfield you're recognized for a question thank you Mr chair. You don't you do not want this bill will what's the origin I'm sorry I'm not as familiar with this and I need to be it was filed by representative the and represent fight. It's represented fights Amendment the definition as opposed to yes ma'am. Did you visit with representative fight earlier we met briefly out here before it ran we've actually had a couple conversations about it yes. But she wants the bill she wants this anyway my understanding yes thank you. Senator Hester you're recognized. So just some logistics if it pass of personnel then there's also we we released a special language then it would still the overall budget it would have to. Then the budget I guess would be put in their budget and that would have to pass so this is like step one of three. So the Bill had originally had special language and physicians or the amendment excuse me added special language in positions the DFA appropriation act the special language I believe has since been removed and was sent to special language subcommittee that is instanmovie the positions within added by the personnel committee with pawn the approval of this committee the amendment would be added to the bill on the bill would be moved out to the floor as I understand it. Yes hold on said we're gonna turn it over to give with. Thank you Mr. Of this bill house bill twelve seventy seven is in both the personnel and special language report today if those reports are adopted then the bill is released from both of those subcommittees and then it's up to this committee decided they want to do pass it or not out of joint budget. Thank you a representative Springer you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair is it proper for a representative fight to come up and speak to the committee. Yes ma'am. Thank. Thank you representative you're welcome introduce yourself and then if you need to make some comments about your amendment for free to do so and then I think we do have some some questions Charlene Fite District eighty state route of this appropriation was is to establish the office of death and hard of hearing at one time as I mentioned to a lot of you Arkansas is a national leader and services to the death and hard of hearing at that time they had an office called office subject and hearing impaired and they provided services through it all over the state to individuals. In need of job training specialized services so this is to reestablish that office it has since been absorbed in the last ten or twelve years and into the department of rehab this would reestablish it to help individuals who are deaf hard of hearing lead full and productive lives by getting the training in the services that they need this would be a two year pilot program and then at that time we would look at it and evaluate the success that it's having and see if it's something we would want to continue to find. All right thank you representative reps in spring you're you're recognized for a question. I'm fine with the chair I. Senator Hammer you're recognized. Thank my share of let me take a different with you Jake over here too far left. How many positions has DFA shifted over shared services since it started. I don't have it in for me we can certainly get that for you we've shifted of a number of them of course DFA before the advent of this whole shared services concept we were already implementing that internally with the bringing in child support bringing the lottery bringing in some of the different pieces that we've absorbed over the years. but we can certainly get you that information. And in the shift you know how many. Of they can positions how many sessions were done away with either because you found cost savings are able to shift responsibilities from one employee to another. my my apologies I don't have that exact number here but I can tell you that there was a significant reduction in costs for things like HR things like accounting and other services because we're able to move those things over. And in all that moving around you don't think you can find for positions because with all the moving around to help representative fight out there with what this is intended to achieve with doing so would certainly undermine our efforts to save money and it would also I as I mentioned earlier I think somewhat cloud Commission of DFA because these are not typically the sorts of services that we provide rehabilitation services for example I think representative Fite mansion they might be a better place for this the this amendment okay thank you. Is my quick means so why why D. F. A. what was the reasoning behind me at that may help members understanding why those four positions for or being amended into the DFA sure this was brought to me by School for the deaf and the people that work at the Arkansas association of the deaf and that was their suggestion as to finding a home for this I just went with what they gave me and perhaps there is a better home. Okay. Senator hammer you finished yes Sir thank you thank you. Senator Irvin you're recognized. Well that was one of my questions at that just got answered as to why we're putting this at D. FNA but then what's the what's the total dollar amount that this then goes over your budget. I believe it's five hundred nine yeah. The total appropriation B. five hundred nine thousand it's currently not fund. And that includes salary and benefits and everything that goes along with the four position right setting up the office and then the four salaries. Okay the folks that brought this to you I represent a fight are they Are they currently working for our government or are they one is one is at the school for the deaf and shoot she actually provides free heart type services at the school for the deaf the others would be we would have to find people with the skill set needed to do these jobs so if she is at a current level of I guess position. With this increase her personal no she would not take one of these positions that would be for other people okay I just needed to ask the questions Senator. Thank you representive Wardlaw. Thank you Mr. President fight you said some of them will go to that intrigue me and the opening remarks did they use to do this at D. F. and they did I hear that correctly. I don't know if this was housed at G. if they previously I'm not familiar with it if it may have been a DFA now since two thousand nine and I'm not aware that this is being at the if in the past now could have been there before hand but my understanding is that there are of similar programs at other agencies that have been implemented in the past okay so. Similar programs Mr chairman if you don't mind. The similar programs is there any way to use those to achieve this goal to or is this the only way to get your gold achieve represented by no I'll I'll be glad to look at any way to do this I think that date this well they had the program before my time here so I'm not sure how it was funded previously I think they probably adopted this language from looking at similar programs in other states and perhaps in other states it's under the name. Okay thank you Mr. Thank you senator Chesterfield thank you Mr representing fine did they express a reason why they did not want to use rehabilitation services of a dissatisfied with it because this. This agency has provided great. Resources for individuals with I hate to say disabilities but who have hearing and and and site impairment so why would you want to put it over there with the department of finance administration instead of the department of rehabilitation services whose sole purpose is to take care of this kind of thing. There may have been sent some unhappiness there because the office was dissolved and absorbed into other programs in the rehab program and they were wanting to re establish this office so with the transformation they've done away with three answers now but they did away with this office way before this is my before the transformation that this office was just on what you consider putting it back over there so that you would have individuals those whose purpose is to deal with this rather than the FNA sure I'll be glad to look at any Avenue that just brought I just brought forward what they gave me and in the form that they gave it to him because I know I would feel much more comfortable putting it in rehab services since that is supposed to be what they do rather than over there D. F. and a which is not what I think they're supposed to do that then that's just my opinion thank you very much I'll be glad to explore other avenues. Thank you senator representative Jett yes Sir thank you Mr president possible just make a motion just hold us up to not take a vote on this days we find a workable solution. and bring this back from the Committee and and then I absolutely would be possible is how we handle the report there could be a motion to adopt report the exception of the amendment to twelve seventy seven my understanding that keeps of personnel we have for the conversation there again I don't want to do anything contrary to what the sponsor would like to the the fine I'll just debts look at some other revenues see what else we can do. Right thank you very much thank you thank you. All right looks like folks of falling off the list at this point do we have any other questions on the report. All right seeing none. Senator Davis I believe that we need a motion to adopt a report with the exception of a house bill twelve seventy seven. All right we got a motion to adopt the report with the exception of house bill twelve seventy seven got a second all those in favor signify by saying aye those opposed motion carries UP next Senator Hester you're recognized president the special language report. Members of special special language subcommittee met on Wednesday March seventeenth and we approved Uh the the full agenda I make a motion that we To pass on the agenda with the exception of SP four forty seven I ask that we pull it out debated separately debate and vote on it separately. And we debate and vote on SB four four seven as that we divide the house on the vote. And I thank you Senator Hester members we have any questions on the motion any discussion on the motion. I will get a motion to adopt a report with the exception of. Senate bill four forty seven and then a and it. I'm one of them want to break that up there is also another motion and in regards to Senate bill four forty seven but I mean the motion at hand right now is to adopt a report with the exception of Senate bill four forty seven. In discussion on the motion. All right seeing nine we've got a motion we've got a second all those in favor signify by saying aye all right the report's been adopted with the exception senate bill four four seven and with that I think they're it might be some discussion on Senate bill four forty seven I believe the U. of a asin folks here and I'm assuming senator called will also like to provide some dialogue on that so I'm gonna first start off recognized. Senator called will. Insurer Amendment. Okay. Okay. I'll circle back to that we had a motion and delighted and call for the nays on Adopting report with the exception of a Senate bill four forty seven and we'll call it again all this favor signify by saying aye those opposed no motion carries. All right with that. You like roll call go ahead all right I with that we're going to recognize Senator called will the president is amended or make comments on this amendment. Thank you Mr chairman committee. The. Are we doing the amendment on for forty seven per. Okay The Amendment owner for forty seven is agreed to language of by the university they actually for instead it changes the of appropriation from of the the pantry research station to the universe works all Division bag is what it does and I appreciate a good vote on the amendment. All right thank you senator again members we do have some individuals like to comment on but you're you're you're finished. Do you have any additional comments a yes I do on the on the bill on the on the admin there was a member's name yes I do of provided a the document to be passed out I want everyone to look at the the. Land that we're talking about the is located in St Francis County Arkansas it was originally acquired to the the U. S. for services back during the depression error of through a the plan a head cold but a bank a Jones act it was moving subsistence farmers and families off of the land in into communities where they could make a living at the time that land was accumulated in the intent was to keep this land in public domain. And so in nineteen seventy eight universe of Arkansas bald about eleven thousand nine hundred acres of this land from the US for service in in the deed it states very clearly usually highlighted that this land shall be kept in public domain. it read subject further to the condition that the above described land shall be used for public purposes and if at any time said land ceases to be so use this state conveyed shall immediately report to income reinvested to the grant or. That means that land has to stay in public domain. I have a copy of a contract right here where the University of Arkansas office signed to sale sixty three hundred acres of that land to a private company. And what this bill does is such a big bucket out here try to accumulate sixteen half million dollars the legislature is not obligated to fund it sixteen if million dollars but if we were to have a surplus of funds and the the money became available in the legislation would be in place to buy this land and if it does not become available to language in this bill which state that the university has to abide by the deed they could not sell it to a public I into a private company but they may sell it to a the public organization whose mission is to keep this land in public domain all we're asking do what they signed only do in nineteen seventy eight enter I cannot see what we would want to sail in to someone who lives in Tennessee and not protect the taxpayers of the state of Arkansas and that's what this amendment does and I would ask for a good vote. All right thank you senator Senator Hester. You're recognized for a question. So I really have to questions. I hear that this but this whole fight is about a duck hunting land for for donors are just constituents or people down that one uses that are currently want to continue using this money for duck hunting land and we're looking to prevent the university from getting twenty million dollars that they could use to educate children so people conduct contact that's number one number two if this sales goes the private sector it will start gathering property taxes to the tune of as much as a hundred fifty thousand dollars a year to go to the local school districts and desperately needed that hundred fifty thousand dollars a year would fund at least three if not for school for school teachers down in that area can you speak to both of those I would have to the check your numbers on it because of this land is green timberland Is the lotion valued property lan of only on the tax rolls so I don't know that those members would get that high the the other thing is although they may pay of a higher rate the only acres it of the last time I looked the assessment was only about two a two hundred ten dollars an acre they may pay two thousand dollars an acre but it didn't going to look at that show up I don't know if your numbers or or anywhere near correct it would be the I think considerably less than that the other issue is. Is that the although I've never done that so to to give disclosure on that but the issue is is of the citizens of Arkansas do and they're there for people from all over the state with the there's a large portion of ten or twelve counties of people that use it for public money and it's not just a cunning to each other but but to the again what do we want to sell it to someone in Tennessee the when would we can keep it open to the public for our citizens. Thank you senator senator Hammer you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr president side all the what ifs and all that stuff there had to be two lawyers are two separate side of lawyer groups that came together to debate the terms of what you've handed out what legal discussion has is their on going now as far as resolving the issue that you've highlighted in the handout that you've given us to the legal the lawyers Senator Hammer of on on the citizens side has not taken place because the university used to use state tax dollars to pay their lawyers but the citizens have to raise their own private money they have no advocate in the state who will advocate for the province's. And so far your legal discussion there's not any now I do have a statement here. That I would like to read a portion of. Want to discuss that in this is from cliff Gibson. And cliff Gibson is an attorney for Monticello and he sits on the board of trustees of the university of Arkansas he is also the head of their audit committee. And it reads I have had I've now had a chance to review the materials you sent. I was flabbergasted to see that four out of five person panel gave the line a proposal the highest possible score on pricing in the face of Laos pricing being fifty percent higher than mossy oak products all of which results in additional real estate broker calls to the university of over three hundred and fifty thousand dollars. This sort of scoring is not reasonable in any respect in throws into serious doubt the other scoring done by the subject Anil so even the only members of the board of trustees have angst with the way this process is taking place again I go back and ask why would we want to sail a state asset to someone in Tennessee when it goes against the taxpayers and citizens of the State of Arkansas. Again maybe I'm I'm I'm being almost dead horse but. Regardless of that the legal grounds for the university to do this based on what's in the document that you've given us. What is it that would stop them from doing it other than the citizens assembling a group of attorneys to pay for the cost to get this in the court thank you senator of better understand your question today they cannot sell it because of the deed restriction. They have to get of an act passed in through the US Congress or get forgiveness from the US for service to release this. Of the restriction what this this amendment would do would say the state of Arkansas says we don't want you to the release this is a deed restriction senator Bozeman has come out publicly quoted in a in the newspaper saying that this sale will not take place in you at university is trying to proceed with the sale even when the congressional delegation does not want to to happen the citizens both systems in this area do not want it to happen in many people in this room do not want that and what we're saying today is that according to state law. The the sale. Will not take place. But we're putting the the bucket after trying to collect the sixteen half million dollars to buy the property through in the in whether it goes to the game official a commissioner no there's been decided but it would stay in public domain. Okay thank you. Thank you senator Senator Hendren you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr so you've mentioned a couple times as of this seems to be a factor that this is out of state purchaser weighing on your motivation for doing this. So I guess is your position at any time in out of state real estate transaction is done with proper public property that the state should for prohibit that or by that instead of allowing it to sell to someone out of state the notion on it all the issue is is the deed restrictions it shall not be sold to a private company mark the issue is is we represent the citizens of the State of Arkansas people in this room to and while we choose to ignore their wishes in rye the in favor someone that does not live in the State of Arkansas yeah and let's talk about the the citizens of the State of Arkansas because you keep mentioning this bucket. But really it's a sixteen million dollar appropriation that there's only one place that's going to come from right next to taxpayer's correct the way this is set up that would be correct. So the swing here is going to be either twenty million dollars to the. University of Arkansas for higher education or sixteen million dollars out of the budget of Arkansas. The sixty million dollars the assets or of transferred within the budget but the assets remain so of the it's not you're not changing the title of two of again someone else from out of state this is all remaining within the state so I can understand your moving you're moving your sixteen million dollars from one account to another account but it did not leave state assets. Again but the cash flow swing is twenty million dollars in or sixty million dollars in nineteen ninety knowledge the fact that the the asset would remain public property but the cash flow differences about thirty six billion dollars will know for you keep saying twenty million dollar contract is is about sixteen happy calendar then letting them make a donation to a of the cutting organization and meanwhile with the state of Arkansas why would you let University sell an asset and not receive the money for that money's going to a private foundation okay so thirty million twenty dollars in corrected the the the real the real money coming to the university disclosure sixteen happening all okay so thirty two and a half million dollar swing that could. Okay and then is there somebody from the university because I I do think it's interesting I would like to know their justification for not honoring this Indeed I guess it is it says that they basically has to go back to the grantors and so there's somebody there who could explain why they feel like they are not bound by this provision that says. it is not gonna be used for public purposes sees to be the steak shall immediately revert to and become reinvested in the grand tour and is the grand tour in this case was of the for service. I know I'm a whole lot if you don't mind just one second so what I'd like to do I have Senator Davis Senator Mark Johnson Senator Elliot okay I just ask one more question Sir Caldwell then actually that's what I was except we have some questions for Senator called Williams let's get those wrapped the grant for that it would revert to the US for service so what you're doing is going contrary to this as well because it's not going to revert to the for service or you're going to want I'm not going contributions thing because the deed says it must be used for public purposes and we would we would continue to use it for public purpose from doing exactly what's allowed in the deed well it says it will reinvest to the grand for. If it's not used for public purpose that was going to go back to the for service no state state okay no it it could Senator Hendren it could but in reality it could go to the game fish or to the nature Conservancy or anyone like that that it would keep it open for public domain in public you. I thank you Senator Davis is your question for Senator called will. Okay. Thank you recognized her chair and was this and well I just said it was for I do have questions for some or all of that and was this land offered back to and USEA or the entities that was supposed to go back to and what was their response yeah I'll hold that I think that you that you would you have not been involved in all those I'm sorry so I do have questions for you and I just. You know you say that it's M. this is gonna hurt taxpayers but we're talking about money that would go to public schools and jobs that would be created with this development and and I just I don't quite understand how and not letting them proceed is at good for taxpayers you're talking about people across the state paying for. Property in your area and you know everyone in this room knows that I've worked for three years to try to get equitable funding for tax and the amount of money it would take to fund tack to educate Arkansas students is less than what you're asking for and I can't get that. And we're gonna just do an appropriation to give you money to save trees in your district and I can't get money to educate kids that come from all over the state to an institution in my district. This is offensive quite honestly and I just I'm curious how you think that that's really the best thing for taxpayers. When you have a committee of of people that use the area it's just all the different in any state park. Or any of the wildlife management areas that are already out there in this land is is not on the tax rolls never has been. But the the your your argument would would lead to shutting down all state parks and wildlife commissioners and selling to private concerns but mon tax roll this is not any different than anything that that most people have in their counties. Thank you Senator Elliot your question or call will. Your term you turn it off on. And center Johnson to get your but again I recognize your next. Okay may I proceed Mr yes me so the call well because well I as I listen to you talk about the land and the people in your district using the land could you clarify for me what that actually means and and and why that's such a big factor I will try to shoot you should Arkansas is a lan does your when it comes to public land we have a large should contingent of the low income African American. Whites the Hispanics all over there that if they want to do anything as far as in the outdoor recreation is hunting or fishing of Hiking biking whatever it's all done the all or mostly done on a proper public land and Without to this particular breach property they would have to be driving fifty sixty seventy miles to access land like that almost everything is in the of private the entity now if you're not a member of the near hunting club or duck hunting club you have to the panel on the public land to do that and and this is what is the we literally have thousands and thousands of of hours so that people spend their every year and the to be honest with you they are up in arms I've spent more time and effort and phone calls and letters and emails on this one subject and basically all service combines and seven over here for eight years of age to a need that needs to be capped in place asset needs to be kept in place and the and although it to the recording chair Davis shoots this is huge corporation it is with all state within the state budget it's going go from from if we have the money and again this is not a mandate appropriation but to this money will come from general revenue go to the university of Arkansas in the land states within the state so are it is it your position then that for most of the private clubs a private entities that are there in the area the folks that use this land or not used in the private the private clubs or whatever exist I'm sorry but with your MasterCard okay so for the folks that you're talking about using the land in question is it are you are you saying that these folks are are not using or don't have access to the probable that you already of the public don't have it I mean just on the side of this property Ted Turner CNN on the flip. Jim Clancy who who grew up in this area and and and his brother be Lindsey were very disgusted and and and and basically and you talk make considerably about it because eating a chance to bid on it It Turner enterprises reach asked me they were your traded business plan would put out for bid where they could buy it so there's a lot of people that want to buy. In lieu so but but the other the other thing is is is set to what about the the citizens of Arkansas you are we want to work with our state parks because somebody would win by the land because it has more value of per acre to a private individual in it in the entrance to grade that we have for the citizens of the State of Arkansas. I'm sorry okay thank you but I I understand thank you. Thank. I thank you senator members had never gonna be bumping committees here pretty quick but I do understand there's questions I think up next Senator Johnson did you have a question for Senator Caldwell. Yes Sir I do okay you're recognized thank you Mr chairman of. Sir Colwell I there's a lot of issues here that almost been glossed over you mention Mr Gibson's comments and and I don't know if that was quite clear his question was that the university hired a real estate they put out had a procurement for real estate agent and they went with not just to have better but it at ridiculously high better and and Mister Gibson seem to I don't remember the language you use but he he was upset quite upset about he writes lever Gates to deliberate yes Is wars or used in it that when I see things like that I I look at you know this is this is not this stinks this whole process even if it were ultimately good idea which I don't think it is stinks but I'm I'm curious if there are. If the whole procurement was done wrong and you pointed out to us and I am going to Mr chairman I do want to ask the university people this this question a moment but The government basically said this the federal government said the state of Arkansas you have this land but here's one the rules it's a it's public land it was a car card under eminent domain it was required when farmers were going under they they basically sell their land the government government moved to I guess this is like a Johnny Cash deal his family sold it lost their farm and they move to the dice colony back in depression and we all know that story but this was preserved for use by the University of Arkansas but it's for the general public it says public purposes and I'm when I and and just Senator Hendren comment about out of state owners act I have no problem with that estate owners per se but I just don't think that you know out of state or even in state you know fat cat so to be able to displace the public from property that's being used I've got to you got a Jean state park in my district center if you've got a question ask questions we've got a lot of other people I do have a question I promise to get to it quickly Mr chairman that be great. What is the difference between I am not my school districts in Conway County could certainly use more money but I don't think we need to pay to sell strategies state park to do that I don't think Senator Davis wants to sell it beautiful land along I think it's Arkansas Avenue when I go to water burger that it serves Arkansas tech just because you might have a couple commercial parcels along there I mean where does this stop I'm just curious it is this. Is there not some alternative to the use. I'm not sure what we just did there if you've got a question to the the sponsor of the amendment I'm not I don't I don't I did ask what questions Mr Masson what what where does this stop in what's the alternative and I I I just want to just like to ensure that. It is stop right here enter your question where to stop and stop right here. The people of Arkansas deserve. That have the University follow the contract in which they signed and bought that property and it says very clearly that it must be used for public purposes and that if they want to sell it to private individual that is merely refers to the four servers they have signed a contract to. The sale this to a private company period. Now we can keep it within the state and we can keep it open to the public or we can send it back to the four servers they do not have the right legal standing to sign a contract to sell it to private individual. Thank you Mr chairman I have a question for the university if you want to get back in the queue I will okay it's service get back in the queue to forget members again to have questions presenter called will be one reason for doing this right now so is the you they wanted to have some comments you know if you've got questions are truly points that you'd like to make there's gonna be plenty time for discussion you know that you can make those points for against whatever it may be I was try to limited questions at this point for Senator Caldwell is making brief and and and not repetitive in nature Senator Rapert you're questions Senator called will. Just give me had not not turn. Thank you Mr up I've got this paper this get this clause in here senator related to the original contract. How is it that they can get out get around that what's being stated to you I don't understand how they can even proceed originally with that provision in there that restricts that to public use without reverting back could you state that they've told me that they were going to the US Congress in and ask for an exemption that in again of stated that our congressional delegations is that they're opposed to the sale. It and and the only thing so that we can move on. But they proceeded with a contract before ever getting an exemption is that not true instance correct that's why I say that contract is is not valid because they didn't have the exemption prior to this study different to me wanting to go fly an airplane but next year I will get my pilot's license or if I want to be a brain surgeon today and then go to medical school next year they've got your cart before the horse in in there for this one is not a valid contract very troubling thank you Sir thank you senator Senator Irvin as your question for Senator called will. Okay. I just want to follow up on what Senator Elliot was talking about the current usage of those pop the current public use of this property. You at you outlines what people were doing I come from a pretty poor area of the state of Arkansas where. Where people actually have to hunt. to to feed their families. And so. What concerns me and my question to you Senator Caldwell is the private hunting clubs that you describe could you highlight for us how much it is to book a stay or book a hunt if you could even get in to any of those private hunting clubs. That would preclude the average Arkansas citizen from actually participating and not I will shooter thank you let me bring up one point I'm not made is it for the last. Sure we years you're recognized I don't know exactly I think fifteen or eighteen years this land has been managed by the Arkansas game and fish not as a wildlife management area but as a wildlife demonstration area they've been in contract with the university so it is open to the public it is manage for deer hunting the cutting is not just a you know what one of free for all that everybody shows and kill all the deer anything that moved this is been a working projects for many years with two games this commission back to your question so go ahead but backed your question on how much it cost two of the bill on it depends on whether you stay the night or just do the day hot but most day hundred three to four hundred dollars a day and if you of take up the lodging it would be five hundred eight hundred dollars a day per person. I know it goes up to a thousand or fifteen hundred many of the market but again we're talking I will be fairly comparison to what to take place in our area and the you know it's it's just it's impossible for the average citizen to afford that this gives them places to hunt and fish year round within the confines of the laws of the game fish and so and you said that this was a wildlife demonstration area managed by the game and fish currently which which room okay so that also brings educational value to the students of the state of Arkansas is that not correct loosely also. Also do you know that there have been further restrictions particularly on duck hunting in some of our wildlife management areas. For the average citizen thank you Dave restricted a lot of those opportunities Welford four Arkansas citizens an out of state there's not heard a lot of help that it is in there trying to manage to the the green chamber to keep you from dying from having water on it to to much yeah and to keep it in a safe manner to prevent to one person from shoot another accidental right okay thank thank you Sir. All right with that I want to turn over to the U. of a I think I'd like to make some comments everybody else that's in the queue is already been you know through questions at least once at this point so I'm assuming the they have you they questions if you've got some comments you'd like to make redress and things that I've already been discussed please go ahead and do so now then we'll get to questions and try to bring this thing to conclusion before we begin our regular committees. Thank you excuse me thank you Mr chairman hi my name is Melissa rusting with the university of Arkansas system regrettably yesterday when we were here in the special language subcommittee a doctor Robinson and Dr Cochran vice president agriculture were here were prepared to testify in opposition to Senate bill four forty seven the special language that center Caldwell has presented they were not given an opportunity to do so yesterday and so we ask for that opportunity today if possible or at a later date I realize you're short on time given other committees and so I do have comments from Dr Bob at that I would like to share with you but given some of the questions that have come up this morning I think one of the questions perhaps that needs to be addressed has to do with the deed restriction and other legal analysis of that and I would like although I am an attorney I don't currently practice and I do have an attorney for the Division here as well here and I'd like to if the chairman is is good with this I'd like to have the and recognized to be able to address that particular question for the membership. You're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman So it is our position that this it despite the deed restriction that it is still a valid contract and the reason that the deed restriction doesn't prevent it from being a valid contract is that the deed restrictions in fact waiver pool and it's been when we've been waived many times in practice by the United States Congress in fact I was on the phone They searched it on Tuesday with US for service and a detailed three recent cases to in Florida and one in Tennessee in which they participated in a waiver process in fact the University of Arkansas in the ninety six farm bill under section nine twenty four received a similar waiver for transfer of some land to a cemetery I believe in Northwest Arkansas so we view that based on the practice of this the administration of this of this law this reversion this reversion clause. That as long as we we got congressional authority to do that we would be we would have a good contractors that's what it is a contingent see in the contract language that was a valid contract subject to this contingency just like many other real estate contracts that we sell your home you have to eliminate to move on with the closing of the property Sir so from our perspective we do have a valid contract so and one of the other aspects that we binge that's been shared with us by the U. S. for services in order to move forward even ask for a waiver of the revision we would have to be able to present to them a legitimate buyer so the the codification of the revision will the roof removal of the revision would include the buyer's name along with some language associated with that public purpose that would continue to occur and I I would would like to take a little bit of liberty and discuss that the language in the That relates to the thank you Jones revision is it talks about public purpose does not specifically say that we cannot sell it to a private entity it just says that the letter that the land will refer it ceases to be used for a public purpose it is the university's contention that the arrangement with the buyers local farms is going to continue to be a public purpose thank you thank you members members here's the deal we've got one too so we've got six people in Q. that like to ask questions we also have a full agenda at that we have not worked through which mean and we've got a short week next week and what I would like to do is stop right now and try to work through the agenda very quickly we'll circle back in like that someone wants to force a vote today then that's that's fine with me but we do have work we have to do this is being on it for the reason we probably should have. In again there is there is a desire to have this debate today and we're having it rightfully so but like I said with there's not an objection I mean we we do have to get through our work I'd like to just pause a back and stay seated there however you'd like to do it we want to see quickly. And then try to move through the so we can get rebuilt bills referred out is that okay Senator Caldwell okay. And everybody is in the queue. If you're just if we can run to the report we'll put you back in the queue will be good to go and less you unless you've got something on one of these upcoming items. All right I'm I'm clearing it all off. All right so we we're at C. one. that's an amendment to house bill twelve twenty special language Amendment by Senator Wallace representable of SB fifty one you're recognized given. Thank you Mr chairman so in in the packet item C. one through C. four C. one does have any special language. He was Senate special language. Mr chairman on page three this is an amendment by senator Wallace two Senate bill fifty one Veterans Affairs. This adds three hundred thousand dollars for county veteran service office members we have questions on Amendment seeing nine we've got a motion to adopt the second all those in favor signify by saying aye those opposed Mr Kerry's Senate bill fifty one is ready to go I do I have a motion do pass as amendment amended I do have got a second all this favor signify by saying aye motion carries. Mr chairman pleased Page seven this is a bill by Senator Irvin senate bill four oh nine for department of education save the children appropriation all right this is a preparation only do we have any questions on Senate bill four nine. Seeing none we've got a motion to pass to get a second all the favor signify by saying aye. Motion carried all those opposed motion carries this chairman page nine this is an amendment to house bill twelve nineteen it has new special language special language. You will. Mr bills request for chairman on an incentive package Senate bill thirty eight on page one DHS aging adult services any questions comments and Senate bill thirty eight C. nine we've got a motion to pass the second all those in favor signify by saying aye those opposed motion carries Senate bill forty one DHS you services to any questions comments on Senate bill forty one seeing none we got a motion to pass a second all those in favor signify by saying aye those opposed Mr Kerry's. On page two Senate bill fifty four insurance department. Any questions comments and Senate bill fifty four. Seeing none I need a motion do pass as amended we have one we have got a second all those in favor signify by saying aye those opposed motion carries on page three Senate bill fifty five DHS medical services any questions or comments seeing none we've got a motion do pass as amended we've got a second all those in favor signify by saying aye those opposed miss carries on the same page Senate bill fifty seventy just developmental disabilities any questions on Senate bill fifty seven seeing none of your motion do pass the second all those favor signify by saying aye those opposed motion carries and the last ones on page nine Senate bill one twenty two Department of auditor for deputy prosecuting attorneys any questions comments or Senate bill one twenty two seeing none we've got a motion do pass as amended a second all those in favor signify by saying aye. Close business carries. In fact it is chairman first one is on page three. House bill ten eighty seven Medicaid tobacco settlement program for DHS any questions comments on house bill ten eighty seven seeing none of us do pass in second always favor signify by saying aye All opposed Mr Kerry's house bill ten eighty eight DHS County ops all right we've got to do we have any questions comments on house bill ten eighty eight C. nine we've got a motion to pass we got a second I was favor signify by saying aye those opposed no security so that's one Mr chairman house bill ten eighty nine DHS provider services and quality assurance questions comments on house bill ten eighty nine seeing none of got a motion to pass to go to second all those in favor signify by saying aye. Of those opposed motion carries on with that's it. Yes it's on the house back in art we're gonna circle back up those any questions for you they were gonna work this is. As quickly as we can today Senator Hammer Europe first you're recognized thank you Mr my question is who. Handled the procurement process for getting the property ready to sell and what's the property made available to where the public would know that it was up for sale given the testimony was shared today that some area of individuals didn't even know the property was up for sale and I'll direct that to the U. of a tourney please. Some. My understanding and I I have to qualify that because I came to the U. of a as an attorney in October of twenty nineteen and the process in which the selection for the sale was concurred you get a little closer might have a little trouble I'm sorry I think I would do not personally I was not personally involved with the selection of the realtor my understanding is that we follow the process that we always follow for that's laid out by the our our rules under the board of trustees for Salem of real estate and the. Process in which we had to get approval by the board of trustees of the public process is a public forum and was notice like we notice all of our truck board of trustee meetings and agendas. All right. Question for you they Mr one. Thank you. The The way I see it you they want to get rid of the property they put up for sale. And that's going to create a large sum of money for the U. of a which I've heard some of the things that you A. wants to do with money I think anybody can question what that is there's a question of the hundred fifty thousand they didn't have that money before as far as money going into the local area outside of that why would the U. of the ages not transfer the land to to game and fish so that it could continue to be made accessible to the public other than the fact you of a is going to miss out on sixteen point five million dollars. Senator Hammer Melissa wrestled I do our best to answer your question one thing I would like to say before I do answer your questions of Mister chairman there is a a bill involving the same personal property and house Education Committee beginning at nine thirty today which I'm supposed to be there to testify along with my colleagues and so I just want to make you aware of that I'm Senator Hammer in response to your question the property has belong to the university of Arkansas division of agriculture as I understand it since nineteen seventy eight. there there's a point at which our board of trustees ask our institutions to do an inventory of the properties that they owned and to determine whether or not there were properties that were no longer being utilized that could be sold in be in place back on the tax rolls for the various communities throughout the state the division of agriculture took that to heart and did a review and determined that this personal property little over eleven thousand acres of was a portion of that property was not being utilized to its best use inter and we did not have the division did not have the funding in order to maintain the property at the level that we believe that it needed to be maintained a determination was first made to try to see if there was an entity in state government or public entity that would be able to purchase the land from the Division we reached out to the game and fish commission it's my understanding game and fish indicated that it was not a priority of theirs and that they did not have the funding to purchase the property it's my understanding that we also sought out and the nature Conservancy and other entities of of that act a characterization and individuals did not have the funding to purchase the property as well at that point in time there was a term determination made by the Department the Division excuse me to retain the services of a broker and placed the property are and and seek bids if you will for individuals or entities from the private sector that might be interested in purchasing the property now you asked the question as to wine sell the property if I just real quick yesterday at the. This makes all the what I think we're proving here's there's quite a bit to talk about I'm gonna recognize Senator Hickey real quick and then what we've got to get to committee again I think that speaks to what. Senator Hickey. Yes members I want to I want to say that the Senator Dismang and thought that we need is but this or special order. But I had asked that it be done today because I thought that was the practice that we normally follow and I didn't want to get outside of that however it's not realistic that we can have this meeting with our other regularly scheduled standing committees so I would ask that the that we just pull this down and set a time to continue thank you senator members. Here's what I'd like to do I'd like to get with you fe senator called will and then staff to see where we can work this into a you know time that's outside other committees whatever may be and we can have a special or discuss this because obviously there's plenty questions lots of confusion all the way around and that your body wants to have their mind made up for at least have a better understanding before there's gonna be a vote taken and I'm sure center called not like to have those with any room in it so with that if that's okay with the members we're going to go ahead and pull the stand will of all parties get together and we'll come back and make sure we send you have time one quick piece of business for let's go senate bill four fifty one we need to expunge though but which that passed as amended I'm gonna motion of got a second I was in favor signify by saying aye. Yes. Senate bill fifty one this is evidently Stafford said it's actually not ready I think this is the second time we've done it so this is senator Wallace is we just it has some additional work to be done to it we're not I'm not ready thing by if this is the first that we need to expunge the vote by which Senate bill fifty one do pass as amended. Without objection. That objection motion carries I thank you members.