Aging, Children and Youth, Legislative & Military Affairs- House

Ing ever meeting so I Senator Elliot. Representative Warren you're recognized. Thank you madam chair and committee of my co sponsor and I are happy to be here today to talk just a little bit and not very long I promise you about the arts plus plus technology boot camps and this is a bill that's about economic development in our state and it's something that is highly unusual something we should have taken advantage of a long time ago but we have not and it will just take a few minutes and talk about that and I'll set my co sponsor has any opening comments and get right down to it. I've been very excited to work on this with senator Elliots. We have so many incredible art related. Items in the State of Arkansas that we need to be promoting but everybody's been doing their own thing we're we're trying to come together and to get a brochure done that will highlight all the special things as far as related to arts and how they play into technology. Across our state so that when you go to one you have a brochure that says well while you're here. Once you try these other items out or other venues out so it's it's been need as we get together hearing other people go when our community off versus ours offers this so uh from CSE south Arkansas and north Arkansas east to west we just need to really promote what all we have to offer so as been fun work working with the Senator Elliot and I'll let her finish telling you about yes so I thank you representative so and and twenty seventeen I believe it was some of you know this background if you're new and you may not we we started an arts caucus here in the legislature and we're very deliberate about to take in the eight our districts that were established not by us but by Arkansas is in the arts so they're at our districts and two we deliberately chose work to make sure we didn't use them we ask people about being a part of the charter group but we deliberately one have a Democrat and Republican in each one of the art districts because the last thing we wanted this to be was something that was partisan it's the arts and technology for heaven's sakes and we have a way of economizing that so that worked out very well and in twenty eighteen I think it was that we had a demonstration here at the capitol after we had the charter members it's just to show the different kinds of parts that we have because most the time people think about what it's seeing it's dancing at its it's movies and all that kind of stuff and it is but it's so much more than that and so what we're presenting to you is a real possibility and the potential that no matter where you are in Arkansas if you come from a small place where people keep saying there is nothing here we beg to differ and that we can take what's there and economize that because we we worked with the two women who were essential to this work with the R. Kansas the arch Lenore of shields and Garbo Hearne brought to us you have. A brochure that's on your on your desk for a couple but what they showed us was what's possible if you look at that you can see the different things that people don't think about is being artistic I grew up in little bit Willisville Arkansas invade a county which is one of the smallest counties in the district it's a it's a in the state is one of those places where somebody would say there is nothing so the second part of what we will be doing with these boot camps and the art folks wanted to call and cancel because there's something different and it's going to be hard work the second thing we want to do was do an inventory of everything that could be there that we've not recognized it and show how we can economize that so if you look at the bill real quickly I would just to tell you about some of the things that you probably haven't thought of at the at the very bottom on page one the creative economy consist of these kind of industries all of these industries have are part of the creative economy those are the big pictures but if you turn the page what we give the numbers that this is the patient has the numbers on it that's on the brochures that you're got so that you have so they're easier to see but so what if these are the industry's what can we do with them what do you mean economize so this gives you the background when I said that people did the research so we wouldn't just be down here talking smack to you about touchy feely stuff it is about using the arts and technology to make money in the state I so people can grow or they are and if you turn the next page that's all about the Bill can't themselves so this is a legislative boot camp which means that we have eight our districts we're going to get two people from each one the district so everybody will be represented but they are going to be appointed by the Speaker and the president pro tem and we're hoping it will be great if if they're going to be bipartisan but is. Even harder now for the bipartisan do the best we can but we do want everybody to have equal representation so when you get a point you will be a part of the boot camp the folks from the arts will help us organize those boot camps to do the research for your district so you will know what's possible from your district and everybody else's and we plan to have everything works out last have some of these around the state not all of them will be here and census of Legislative boot camp I know that will come up well how do you pay for it it's a legislative boot camp so we have funds in BLR that will support this kind of activity so you know that is not any for the money that we need to have. And on the next page is just all the stuff that tells us about you know who would report to and so forth and speaking of the report at the end of these boot camps what we will have this all kind of work for you to do probably a lot of that in twenty twenty three because we will be able to say in district five here's what's possible here's a kind of legislation you might need to think about because when we wed of the consummate arts and and technology we're going to be able to see a lot of possibility and discover a lot of things in your district because we are doing something like small D. democratizing the arts in helping you think about the arts in more ways than one for example if you look back at page one just real quickly I show you what I'm talking about when I say democratize the arts under those created because of Connie's what aid agriculture and agribusiness there are people in this country who are using agriculture and agribusiness plus technology and turning things into a business as an art that we've not thought about for example you know there are people who if if you are if you own a farm for example and there are people you might just say New York city's never seen a farm in their lives never seen a cow in their lives and we can take things like that if their soap makers we had people come to our when we had the expo in the in the rotunda we had people who came from agriculture backgrounds and had all kind of things they showed us their artistic that they were doing people actually will go on excursions to these places that are practically dying just to have the experience so it's it's things like that are very different last thing I want to say that the very last page the creative services when I mentioned that on the big picture on page one these are different kind of services but if you look at the last page that's where it's broken down even more all of these kind of things that are. Connected to the arts and technology all of these are examples of some of the things will be exploring I know this if you live in district five and you don't even know that maybe it doesn't matter right now and there are things that are happening in there that you don't know about maybe because nobody's ever thought about the cultural sites in a way that you can economize it as an art and technology combination so after all this time and we work together with the arts caucus and and work with minority and Garbo Hearne. Spend what I guess now three years of working at this and we are ready to get things put to paper and make our reports and start this this state growing where people are because we cannot keep waiting for the next factory to come in and save us and of our young people are older people grow where they are. Then they will remain most likely where they are and we can grow all over this state and not just have wanted to areas where we think everything is supposed to be because that's what we're Sturch but we're starting to think we can do better thank you so much I'll take any questions. Are there any questions by the committee. Representative Mayberry. Thank you madam chair I guess just I'm over here choice sorry but and it's so hard to tell in here isn't it. I guess my only request is this group meets to please make sure that people with disabilities are included in the conversations regarding the arts yes certainly because I I think there is so much as a specially or people with disabilities they're just so many things we it's another one of those things we we've we've not thought beyond what we see all the time and we will most certainly do that absolutely thank you. I see no other questions thank you all right I know you always just tired. Our kind don't know which one. We have to audience members signed up to speak for the bill and if I do not get your name right but a representative senator if you want to move on back in the audience and will call M. witnesses to come forward first we have Lenore shallots and if I get that wrong please correct me when you come forward. If you will introduce yourself to the committee and then you're recognized. Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you about growing Arkansas's creative economy I am doctor Lenore Schulz creative economy co chair of our Kansans for the arts. Two point nine billion dollars in gross state product and thirty three plus thousand jobs are the tip of the iceberg tracking the date is important but what this is really about is looking forward to how we can actually proactively grow the creative economy. When I first heard about a camera on a cell phone. I thought I don't need that I've got a camera. Well think about how we now use our cameras on our cell phones we've become totally visual cellphone photography expanded even further with apps like Instagram Snapchat pushing the art and technology envelope and generating billions of dollars or in technology got us through pandemic with Netflix zoom distance learning if you go all the way back to the origin of those game changers they began in the arts film video animation. Arten technology boot camp will explore the art and technology that exists in your districts so for example the innovation hub in north little rock bill PPE gear during the pandemic in magnolia at southern Arkansas university the art department has a major and game animation simulation beyond the entertainment industry education now uses gaming and animation three D. modelling is used in architecture modular construction transportation the military art and technology boot camp will inventory statewide assets we're consuming creative products from other states but we could be creating that content here. Netflix and Instagram California. At C. New York Lexia a phenomenal reading program that our department of education uses Massachusetts these are a few examples but if Arkansas is to be competitive investing in art and technology will pay dividends across every economic sector and the first step is to find out what we have and build on it. Arten technology are generally separate silos in our education and industrial systems and yet. Creative people frequently merge these disciplines in their personal lives coders were often in the high school band we're still refund the guitar while solving a coating quandary patience persistence and accuracy are common to both music and coding governor Hutchinson has led the nation in adding coding to the Arkansas curriculum cross silo connections in art and technology will spark even greater innovation the whole idea is to see what crossed silo connections exist. Creativity attracts creativity it's magnetic and these people will create something new some sectors like tourism will be immediate beneficiaries as art and technology creates things out of thin air whether dinosaurs or driving towards some sectors will require germination and if we seize this moment in a few years Arkansas will have grown the creative economy retained to the students who are now leaving due to lack of opportunity at home will be retraining workers in advanced art and technology jobs and attracting talent to our state. Thank you. Thank you. Our next person signed up to speak for the bill I'm sorry my staff and are having trouble reading the name is it. Garbo Garbo Hearne. We were right we got it. I just moved on down here so I can do a quick close when she finishes. Thank you. If you would introduce yourself to the committee please and you're recognized. Its owner yes okay good evening I'm Garbo Hearne I am the former chair over Kansas for the arts and I fully concur with everything the nor shall to said it is time to stop thinking of art is just the warm and fuzzy the arts play a big role in the creative economy in Arkansas in every part of Arkansas has its own story it is time to realize what is happening Northwest Arkansas can happen all over the state of Arkansas we just need to find out what it is and so I hope that you will support this bill because this is just the beginning thank you. Thank you. Senator would you like to close for your bill yes just very briefly I want to recognize the folks that are in here who are part of the arts caucus in the last session I I don't see many of them the second thing is it's so difficult to get together you know with the pandemic but I'm inviting you to become a member of the arts caucus now in in the house this would be okay if I could focus on the list you have so many things going on to the United we have the needs of the the first they can come to and say they want to be on the arts caucus in the house that'd be helpful if the need for that because she was a member last time because you want to be a member wholesome we come to your district people need to know you what part of this and you didn't just show up so feel that Denise Garner know you'd like to be a member of the caucus that would be just just great and with that I I thank all of you. We have a motion representative Springer what is your motion. We have a motion do pass. Is there any discussion of the motion. Representative garner. Okay what we don't need a second I thought you're going to you know have a discussion okay. All in favor say aye. Opposed say no. And the bill has passed. We're moving back to the agenda in order we have House resolution ten eighteen representative Bryant. You're recognized thank you madam chair if it pleases Committee I'd like to bring Mr **** with family council the table yes Mr **** please come forward and I introduce yourself to the committee. Committee what I bring to you today in House resolution one zero one eight is framework for protecting the welfare of our children the state of Arkansas the. It's tough being an adult. And that in today's society it's almost it's tough being a child with the advent of technology that we were exposed to as we were coming up and being raised the amount of information being funneled into our children's eyes and ears is somewhat overwhelming so with this resolution is doing is is lanes were framework for state agencies and guidance to our our elected officials to. Protect their welfare to to involve their parents in discussions and decisions about their life. And with that I'd like to turn over to Mr ****. Thank you madam chair and members of the committee my name is Gerry **** I'm executive director of family council here in Little Rock and I'm very pleased that represent Bryant has brought this resolution because and Family council we've been concerned for the last thirty years about the welfare of children and how families are going to make a go of it. And I must say that the things that we were dealing with thirty years ago when I first got into this work I have pay old really in comparison to some of the issues that kids have to deal with now we all know that I was a high school teacher for eleven years and did my best to do everything I could to help kids and and be a good role model and to look out for their welfare but. Today I think we'll all agree that there's no salt on kids I mean it's just a flat out of salt it comes from every direction it comes to social media comes to the T. V. it comes through all kinds of music and entertainment and it just goes on and on it you had to that the whole obscenity issue the human trafficking issues and all that and so I'm so pleased that represent Bryant has brought a resolution forward that that says you know what. If we is grown ups don't look out for kids there's nobody else to do it I mean we are it. And and it's our police to step into that gap and say you know what we're not gonna let people come out here and just pray on our kids and let them be be preyed upon by all of these forces that are out there and so yes this is just a resolution that doesn't carry the force of law it doesn't force anybody to do anything but I think making statements and stuff in stating goals and vision is really important and I think we need to S. as adults to keep that at the forefront because sometimes we lose sight of that we get so preoccupied with other things that we we forget about you know what I'm I'm here to look out for the next generation to to create a better world for them and I believe that's what this resolution helps us do and so to me if it just helps half a dozen kids it's well worth doing and I think you know I I I fully supported and glad he's brought it the Senate's already done one of these it's made some of the same resolution they passed there's just the other day and it be sure great if the house could do the same thank you madam chair members of the committee. Are there any questions by the committee. Representative Hudson. Thank you madam chair and add representative Brian or Mr **** and I I appreciate I think the intent behind this although I have four kids in public school and have never had them exposed to any of the things that you've listed here I wonder though if you're concerned at all especially about some of the sections that deal again specifically with transgender kids it which is a topic that I feel that we're spending inordinate amount of time on the session and. Given that this doesn't have the force of law do you think that in balance we need this when a doctor was already quoted as saying that children are trying to kill themselves because of all of the trans gender legislation that we're we're putting up in the session I mean is it worth doing this resolution if it's going to cause children to try to commit suicide. Well there's first of all the there's nothing in here obviously about children who are struggling with gender dysphoria the bill does that are or the the resolution does say that they need to be affirmed in his or her genetically determined sex to me that's a good promise I think to make to children and to do whatever we can to help them and so I think it's it's very affirming of every person's genetically determined sex and I think that's a good promise to make. You're right. I do appreciate that but my concern is specially when we're talking about something that doesn't have the force of law is that by calling out these children again unnecessarily I know my middle school or would rather die than have somebody point her out to a crowd and would be doubly embarrassed to have her specific description put into a resolution indicating that that she was somehow faulty so do you think the balance given that this doesn't have the force of law is worth the risk that we're going to continue to single out vulnerable children and and make them feel less than their classmates. Well the again This doesn't single anybody out this just says that these are guidelines that we should tried it here too so there's nothing that requires anybody to be singled out nobody to be embarrassed nobody to have to talk about their sexual orientation or any of those things and so there's just not it's not any of that in here it's it's just simply saying that we should look out for their welfare so I I don't I don't I don't see that there's any concern there whatsoever. I'm seeing no other questions from the committee we have no one in the audience signed up to speak for or against the bill that I overlook anyone. What is the will of the committee. I'm so I ask if you're closing would you like to close for your bill I'm close committee resolution excuse me closer and what is the will of the committee we have a motion. Motion do pass as the discussion on the motion. Okay seeing nine all in favor say aye. Opposed say no. The resolution has passed. Thank you madam chair members of the committee. Next on the agenda we have house bill seventeen ninety seven representative brown and our vice chair is going to take the chair from the for the rest of the committee meeting. In a brown you're recognized to present house bill seventeen ninety seven. Thank you madam chair and I would like to invite actually Abney and Jeff Williams to join me. Please introduce yourself for the record and I'm representative Carolyn brown District forty one. I'll just introduced the bill but I do want miss Abney definitely to explain further House bill seventeen ninety seven removes language that allows corporal punishment for children in residential facilities licensed by the division of child care and early childhood education of the Department of Human Services many of the children in these facilities have already endured physical abuse research related to trauma adverse childhood experiences concludes that corporal punishment should be prohibited in these facilities settings this proposed change would mirror the ban on corporal punishment already in place for child care centers licensed by DHS nothing in this bill affects the ability of parents or public school to use corporal punishment. And I would appreciate a good vote but I'm going to let. Ms seventy speak. To explain this further good afternoon madam chair and committee members you did excellent job right there so essentially what we are asked please tell us who you are who you're with please I apologize I am asking Avni. Can you hear me. It's on when it's read it's on you might just have to scoot it toward you just a little. After. Good afternoon you all I am asking about me with the division of child care and early childhood education within the Department of Human Services. Like the representative said that we are asking year for your support with this bill it would prohibit the use of corporal punishment in our residential facilities these children as many of you know have already suffered significant trauma that's led to the placement in the first place so we have this already over in our child care licensing side and we're asking for you want to do the same in our placement in residential side as well. Happy to answer any questions that you all might have. Are there any questions by committee. Representive cloud recognized for a question. Thank you madam chair would you just elaborate on the corrective measures that are in place that that the staff and the institutions can use. Yes I'm glad to so what we would expect to see is incentive based discipline hard behavior guidance we would also expect to see positive behavior support additional therapy that might be available within the facility group therapy to work out conflict resolution with the children any of those would be appropriate and far better than the corporate our corporal punishment if you are comfortable removing your mask I think it would be easier for committee members to understand what you're saying sorry. Tell me repeat myself. If you would just repeat the first part I I got the other you gave three examples what was the first one thank you incentives if we could get to a place where we were we were put into place incentives for the children this could be things like things that they are that they prefer preferred activities preferred rewards those would be much better along with positive supports along with additional therapies that might be available to them conflict resolution would be good so there's many things that are available as resources for the facilities to use. Check. Any other questions by committee. No one signed up to speak for or against the bill we overlooked anyone. A representative brown would you like to close for your bill. Thank you madam chair I would just appreciate a good vote thank you kept committee. What's on the committee I have a motion do pass by representative Watson all in favor say aye. Opposed no. Congratulations you passed your bill. Okay compared. Okay. There you are and I'm over here in thanks trying to figure out if we're going to okay. We are going to take a representative pencils bill next he does have an amendment he has to sign subcommittee if you'll just be patient with us for a few moments. House bill thirteen eighty eight. Okay. Representative Penzo you're recognized to present your Amendment thank you chair. If it's okay to committee if we get to adopt the. Amendment then we can discuss the amended bill. What's the will of the committee. Thank you have a do pass on the amendment all in favor say aye. Pose no. Minute passes thank you Committee. If I could when I have a Mr trouble here introduce a the talk about the amendment. Good afternoon thank you madam chair and thank you for having us here today Committee so the amendment it's been printed tell us who you are I'm sorry my apologies so my name is John trouble I am an attorney here in Little Rock. Pardon me I'm an attorney in little rock so the amendments that have been the Amendment that has been proposed today is on and the post adoption contact agreement that we appear before the committee a couple of weeks ago we are removing court enforceability and we're maintaining an option to a go to mediation yes the adoptive parents in the birth parents have questions about. Keeping up their terms in the agreement but what we've done essentially is taken for stability entirely out of the courts to address the concerns the courts had at the last meeting. Are there any questions by committee. Representative cloud you're recognized thank you madam chair Mr tribble on the amendment it says. I don't I don't have it don't have the lines number but it's about three quarters way down on the second page may consider the preferences of the minor in determining the best entrance interest of the minor if the minor is at least twelve years of age. could you expand on that a little bit of sense like a twelve year old would be kind of young to be making decisions how much weight would that have been the final decision absolutely representative there's a specific reason behind that Arkansas code annotated nine nine two oh six in requiring consent requires the consent to adoption by a minor who is eighteen twelve years old. because of that we likewise have said given that a court must have the child's consent to his or her own adoption at twelve and also in custody matters which is an entirely separate issue courts tend to take the minor's position into account if. There is a question where the the minor lives with mom or dad courts will take the minor's position into account after a certain age likewise here yes it in the instance if there is a post adoption contact agreement between birth and adoptive parents at let's say the it would be prior to the entry of the decree so would be when the child is a newborn and and fourteen years later there is some sort of dispute that comes up before mediation if the parties agree to that. The mediator could take into account the child's preferences what is the child thing care. Because the court would require their consent if they were being adopted at that age were likewise. In a custody matter a court might take their opinion into account. We we felt that having it commensurate with those other requirements what is logical. Follow what place you're recognized so. It is is the situation. Where the adoptive parents and then the biological parents as you said like let's just say fifteen years later there's a conflict and then the child gets to weigh in on okay these these people have raised me for fifteen years but now I want to go with the biological parents no Sir that's not and that's that I would say miss construction of what is going on this is not a custody determination there is no way that the child could go back and live with the biological parents the. Contact communication or visitation provided in a post adoption contact agreement could be as little as providing photographs of the minor once a year. It could be once every two three four years whatever they agreed upon or it could be as much as the adoptive parents say we're willing to meet up with the birth parents and the minor once every three months on a Sunday at a park if but in order for that to occur all parties must have agreed in the beginning meaning the birth parents and the adoptive parents it cannot happen without agreements of both parties but that is the kind of that gives you the two bookends of the types of a contact or communication we're talking about here we're not talking about. Overnight unsupervised visitation we're not talking about living with the birth parents or anything of that nature that would not that would be beyond the scope of disagreement. President of mackenzie you're recognized for a question. Thank you madam chair I'm sorry maybe misunderstanding this and just trying to grasp this where it says here On page two and you've got this section see if mediation fails the adoptive parents to have the final decision as to what they deem is in the best interest of the minor. Which I think I like that but if I understand it correctly then I mean we go through mediation what for defined for what mediation fails means first I guess well if if if the mediator in it after if the parties agree to go to mediation and the mediator is not able to. Come to a resolution with the parties that is in the best interest of the minor and is not contradict the authority of the adoptive parents which is the standard upon which they would be looking at the circumstance. If the parties simply cannot come to an agreement if you're in an impasse. Then. Essentially we can't go to the courts because we've removed court enforceability here there would have to be some kind of default and that under. The parental authority of the adoptive parents would be that they in that event would have the final word follows you're recognized so does it it sounds like then the in reality the adoptive parents to have the final say. Technically yes they would of course of favour fails if if they're totally unwilling to participate I think that it's important to keep in mind that of course these mechanisms have to be put in the law because we have to first see what happens if things don't work out we're talking about statistically when we look nationwide at highly highly unusual and unlikely scenarios where they would end up in these situations largely people first of all this is voluntary if if this is the law in Arkansas that does not mean that every adoptive parent and every birth parent will be entering an agreement if the birth mom for example says. I don't want my identity known by the adoptive parents. Then in the adoptive parents say I don't want my identity known by the birth parents then that will be respected they don't have to enter into an agreement if they do enter into an agreement then certainly from the get go there's a willingness to cooperate to come to the table to have a discussion and. Experience in in other states in the US has shown for example Oregon I believe is the first state that implemented this thirty at thirty one years ago they've had very very few cases where any of these where are posted option contact agreements have been disputed where these kinds of disputes have arisen I know Washington state which is had it I believe since nineteen ninety has not had one single appellate case on it so we're talking about. Very very unlikely scenario yes it is possible but it is not going to be a frequent occurrence. does that answer your question. Yes I believe so I think it sounds better as far as it sounds like in the rare instances when the wheels to go off the track. Then it seems like the adoptive parents are really going to be the final say is that yes there assessment yes that is a process. Are there any other questions by committee. Okay we do have several signed up to speak for the bill. You're welcome to stay or. Or move out of your seats Montana Jones. Just please tell the committee who you are. Well good afternoon my name is Montana Jones I am one of the pastors of the summit church insulin county and I'm here today in support of this bill as an adoptive parent in an open adoption I've experienced the health and love and flourishing that openness can bring to the adoption process for all involved first and foremost to the adopt the but as well to the adoptive parents and to the birth family I believe it's in the best interest of my son in his development that he gets to grow up without a shadow of mystery of where he came from and that he'll never have to doubt that he's been loved from the very beginning by his birth family it is been one of my family and I was greatest honors and privileges to be able to give and to receive the love that openness can foster in adoption and we would not trade trade the relationship we have with our son's birth family for anything and so I believe this bill will help produce and maintain the type of openness that brings the security and environment that is healthy for an adoptee's development throughout their life I also believe this bill will help adoptive parents and navigate openness as they try and provide the best life for their adopted child and I also believe that this bill will help an expectant mother have the confidence that she needs as she makes a very difficult but life giving decision when she comes to make an adoption plan and so I believe that by passing this bill that you will be helping Arkansas as a whole continue ultimately to be consistent in being pro life pro family and ultimately a pro adoption so I thank you for your time and I'm willing to answer any questions if you'll have any are there any questions by committee. Seeing none thank you very testimony thank you. We also have Amanda Jones. Afternoon I am my tennis waste my name's Amanda Jones and I am here from Bryant I am an adoptive mom and I also work with hopefully drafted parents Anna and their education and their support at an adoption agency here in Arkansas kaju beginnings and so that's a perspective that I'm coming from I'm primarily here today in honor of my son and secondarily because judge her spelled who testified in opposition of this the last time mention my family's adoption that he very graciously finalized in the middle of the pandemic and I am here in support of this bill and I wanted to make clear what my family's position was on this and he saw fifteen very special minutes of our story but not the entirety of it and so I am here because I believe in this bill and I appreciate his service I want to make that clear but I also believe that the impression was given that adoptive parents may not be in favor of this or be scared by a posted option contact agreements and so I wanna make it very clear that I am here in support of that M.. One year ago at the height of the pandemic I sat in a hospital room. With my son's birth mom and she made one simple request of me she said I just want him to know me. And this is the woman that has given him life that shows me to be his mother. And You know it means everything to me to be able to support him in that and what you ask of me is validated by research and so on it read just a little bit to you from some studies from the center of adoption support and education about open adoption quote children in open adoptions spend less time engaging in fantasizing about birth families because they don't have to and quote as you recall last time you are here I want you to notice a reality both fantasizing is my birth parent famous is that why I was kept a secret. And fear will they come looking for me are they a villain coming to disrupt my life. Both of these fantasizing in fear or normative responses to the unknown. enclosed it option but they bring no psychological resolution for the adoptee what's known can be process slowly with the people that we love and what's unknown is an ever present threat. That's why other peer review peer reviewed research from the twentieth century can be found that says high degrees of collaboration between adoptive parents and birth families predicted greater socio emotional development for adoptees. We've already talked a little bit about teenagers. They also said most teens who did have contact with their birth mothers are satisfied with their open adoption while most who did not want it more the adoption Congress in nineteen ninety six found that ninety four percent of adolescent adoptees just wanted to know which birth parent they looked like. I just want him to know me that's what she told me we show our son respect by respecting the very minimal requests of the brave people who gave him life and have trusted us with him and with his life. That takes clarity in collaboration on both of our parts and that's best done with assistance from the beginning. I think signaling to the states through this bill it is in the best interest of adoptees barring exceptional situations which the bill allows for at of course all these are voluntary and it's so important for all future adoptees the clarity of expectations and collaboration that packages create for openness benefit everyone involved and I can tell you as someone who every day talks with hopeful adoptive families and adoptive families that it would greatly reduce anxieties for everyone involved including them. but mostly for future adoptees I would ask that you pass this bill. Thank you and I can take any questions if you have. Single questions thank you for your testimony. Next we have Serra Miller Weber. Please introduce yourself. Hi I am Serra Miller Weber I am an adoptee and an open adoption and adoptive mom in an open adoption and I am a birth mother advocate for expectant women walking the road of adoption. So the last time I was here I shared a bit of my story with you but I want to share a little bit more of my story with you. My husband and I and the fall of two thousand eighteen after I had battled endometriosis and to cancer in my early twenties. And got about a decade older decided to pursue adoption to build our family. We had a hard road. We had five failed matches and that's what it's called when an expectant mom chooses you. The first one was to be a miscarriage it was devastating. Two of them mom chose to parent and we celebrated with her. One of them a family member chose to care for baby and we celebrated with them. But one particular may. Right before mother's day we had a seven month old brought to our home with every possession that he owned and his mother chose us. Take care for him to parent him and to love him. And like every new parent we promised we would do that we swore that he would do that with everything that we have. And so on mother's day two thousand nineteen I showed up at my parents farm involved of Arkansas with the seven month old baby and surprised everybody by putting him into my mom's arms and making her grandmother again. About six days later everything went sideways and he had to go back home. And we were left heartbroken. But it wasn't about us it was about him and it was about that family. And so last time we were here one of the pieces of opposition sad what about vulnerable hopefully doctors parents who will sign anything to build their family and I will tell you after that devastation. On Memorial Day weekend on we got a phone call that our son. Our son's first mom chose us to be in Spokane Washington. To become parents on June twenty seventh we were beside ourselves but we were the ones that ask for a posted option contacted raiment we were the ones who said we want to honor you and your relationship and your family in our son's culture and we want to make sure that our son knows that we came together as one unit. And we provided for your future and one way that we can do that is to make sure as an adoptee and your early twenties if you're diagnosed with cancer you know who to ask those questions to you can find out your social history. Most adoptees and the state of Arkansas don't get that right now. And there are a lot of adoptive parents who want to provide that and we just want the opportunity to come together with birth parents how the real conversation and have it be entered into a record. That's all we're asking today. So we're asking you to please consider passing this bill. I would love to answer any questions. Any questions by committee. Seeing none thank you for your testimony. We also have Frank Weber. Good afternoon Frank Weber I'm local adoptive dad and business owner here in Little Rock. I just a few minutes I don't have too much here but when it comes to open adoptions in the contracts around them. When we first started talking about I I certainly had pause I wasn't sure exactly how it would affect my family my life my wife but the more we talked about it the more I learned about it. I really felt like an open adoption contract was was right for us we decided would better serve allow us to better serve our signed by having open communication with his biological family learn about medical history other family history of the family issues would allow us to rest easier knowing that we were not keeping our child from learning about his heritage's family has roots when he was older and wanted to know about things like that. Ultimately though for me you allowing open Dobson contracts and and the post communication contacts. It's really just it is it's a it's a pro life issue to me it's about encouraging life and making it easier for women to make a decision to adopt when they're at a hard time in their life presenting a a woman who's in crisis or otherwise the the the the choice of either keeping her child or placing that child for adoption and never seeing him again never knowing if he or she is okay is safe that's it's not a fair thing to ask and but tensely dissuades them from choosing adoption and potentially choosing life to me women should have the legal option of requesting an open adoption and and adoptive families should have the option to accept this or not for many it's the ideal situation like for us and it very well may save some children's lives by making it easier for women to to choose life and I think ultimately that's what it comes down to is making it easier to choose life thank you I saw at. Any questions by committee. Thank you for your testimony thank you. And finally we have Britney still well. Thank you for all having easy to pronounce names. Good afternoon I'm Revenue Britney still I'm the minister with students and families here at live downtown little rock at second Baptist church I came to testify today in favor of this bill both as a student minister who understands the complex emotional and psychological needs of developing children and also as a prospective foster parent who cares deeply about the well being of our kids here in Arkansas. But all of these perspectives are rooted in my faith and in the greatest commandment to love god and neighbor with all my heart mind soul and strength. I work with kids of all ages and I know first hand the struggles that they go through to grow into the person god created them to be all kids regardless of their background are wrestling with developing a sense of self is they're trying to figure out what makes them unique and how to exist in this world. Those of us who knew both of our biological parents probably don't even realize how important our biological roots were to our development. But now I get to watch children both with biological and adoptive parents watch the mature and I see how important knowing your heritage your biological heritage is to their development and their sense of self. It allows for this deeper connection a deeper sense of belonging yes biologically but also as a part of their adoptive families they know their chosen and loved. A portion of what makes them unique isn't swept under the rug are considered less than. And for these kids respecting their birth families and not have to make a post adoption contact agreement is also respecting them and their full personhood. I know we all worry about the negative influences that are out there on our kids we should be worried there are a lot of things out there. But I think we worry a lot about the wrong things and a post adoption contact agreement is not one of those it's not a reason to fear. These agreements gift the child with the connection to their biological family but in a way that's appropriate for every specific situation and it's a tie that could be crucial to their emotional psychological and spiritual Health as they learn and grow and develop into the beautifully made children of god that they are so please pass this gift for birth families for adoptive families and for adoptees it is a gift thank you. Any questions by committee. Thank you for testimony. Representative Penzo would you like to close for your bill. I'm sorry. Representive cloud recognized for a question was it of our witness that will up for Mr trouble if I may okay thank you madam chair. Not being a lawyer please forgive me just give me some clarification three of the test of fires talked about an open adoption which to my ears it seems like they've already accomplished what we're trying to accomplish in this bill so can you give me that in the need for the bill or or why we're doing this it's not that I'm against it at all it's just I'm looking for that clarification sure the idea of open adoption is. Are you you have been explained by all of the witnesses very well I can tell you that as we heard in the testimony two weeks ago Sarah Webber and her husband Frank adopted out of Washington state they actually have a pocket one of these agreements because Washington state provides for that as far as Mr Mrs Jones I am not aware if there adoption was finalized in Arkansas or elsewhere I don't know if they have one of those enforce the what we are asking is so currently Arkansas is considered a closed adoption state in this is part of the big problem part of this is how do we want to be perceived as a state right now we by people it in please keep in mind that when we're talking about adoption. Even though we are within Arkansas this affects the entire country because birth mothers in Arkansas may be working with an agency in another state let's say New York and they're matched with adoptive parents in Wisconsin so this is an interstate issue in a sense and the world at large perceived Arkansas to be a closed adoption state because. Post adoption contact agreements are not enforceable. The reality is you may have a open adoption in Arkansas but it is not enforceable in any way shape or form and I think it's become evident by the testimony today that offering the ability again it is not mandatory but offering the discretionary ability if the birth parents and adoptive parents agreed to have this agreement that is a formalized agreement makes things clearer it is transparent it allows people to understand why it's. Actually is on the table and it allows them to go back and say okay we agreed to this and this it really changes the game it gives birth mothers it peace of mind. To be able to move forward it gives a guarantee for an open adoption as opposed to. What might be couched as an open adoption which we have today but at any time can be turned toward a closed adoption. I would like to give an example a couple of years ago I represented a birth mother who gave birth in northern Arkansas she was working with an adoptive family out of state and based on a comparison of law that case should have finalized in Arkansas because she was from here the adoptive parents came here for the birth of the baby it could have and should have finalized here but the birth mother wanted in the adoptive parents wanted to have a post adoption contact agreement so that case finalized in the state of the adoptive parents because they provided for the post adoption contact agreement. That increase the cost because we had to comply with the interstate compact on placement of children and it the cost for attorneys in New York we're increase there were attorneys in Arkansas and they had to hire other attorneys in their home state and there's no reason that should not finalized here but for the fact that the birth mother could not include a post adoption contact agreement together with the adoptive parents so all we're asking is for us to provide this opportunity to have a formalized open at our open adoption in Arkansas and it will align what really is possible with the perception by others of what is possible in Arkansas. Thank you. Representative garner you're recognized for a question. Yes thank you madam chair I'm I'm right here thank you question I'm I'm. Not an attorney I'm confused by the testimony first of all I love the idea of open adoption of love the idea of folks are working together for for adoptive. Our children I'm confused about our are we just in this bill though exchanging the courts for the state who enforces. I'm confused about the enforcement process okay what we have done is because of the strong objection to enforceability in courts we have removed that so the state is no longer enforcing. The contract it is a legally recognizable contract in the sense they may conclude it it is the court would merely before the entry of the decree make a finding the judge would look at it say yes it's in the best interest of the child we're okay with it there's no formal order recognizing it proving it the judges merely making a finding that the agreement is okay from that point forward it is not enforceable in court should somebody not agree with it and who pays for that this. Who who pays for that in in which sense. Pays for the for the for the judge to look at the mediation and all that the judge is not looking at any mediation the judges looking. During the hearing on adoption the judge would review the judge reviews various affidavits he's reviewing the home study he's reviewing the consents by the biological parents and other documents that have been filed with the court he would also review this is that uh posted option contact agreement that's been concluded by the parties and he would merely say it looks to me like it's in the best interest of the child it meets the requirements and that is the end of court involvement it should be a process of him reading through it. S. decision there's no more burden on the court and I. All right ma'am so the only the only recourse beyond that would be if the birth parents and the adoptive parents agreed to go to mediation I guess my question is what happens if the agreement fails if the agreement fails initially and again this is I would like to emphasize again this is it statistically has been shown to be in states that have this very rare instance but if it fails the aggrieved party can request mediation. And because that this is all agreed to and the agreement they can request mediation and they would go to mediation and if the mediator cannot resolved in a way that's directed it It set forth in the bill that the mediator would look at a resolution that is in the best interest of the child and does not contravene the parental authority of the adoptive parents so for okay for example. If. They agreed to exchange photographs and letters once every three months in the adoptive parents quit doing it in the birth parents decide they want to go to mediation and the mediator. It I can't imagine them not coming to a resolution of why the adoptive parents would not send photographs in a letter once every three months or whatever the agreement is but if they cannot if the mediator cannot come to that agreement in a way that is in the best interest of the child it doesn't contravene. The parental authority of the parents. Then mediation has failed then obviously the adoptive parents would have the last word. That is the mechanism that we have in place was the only way that we could come up with where we're keeping it out of the courts. If you still have questions I put it back in the queue okay. Representive Hudson you're recognized for a question thank you madam chair over here okay and I wanted to go back to what doctor cloud was saying just a moment ago about I mean we're not suggesting that these contracts would be used for Arkansas families who are going to other states to adopt children right I mean these would only be for Arkansas based adoptions. They would be for adoptions that are finalized in Arkansas so in other words if a birth mother gives birth in Arkansas in the adoption is finalized in Tennessee then they would not be used for Tennessee adoption okay and that's what I just wanted to clear the only I I will say that I know because if interstate matter right only time where that conceivably could be I know of a case where for example a child was born in Arizona and Arizona does not do they do not do adoptions of out of state residents so they're procedure is to terminate parental rights in Arizona and then the the adoptive parents from Arkansas get interstate compact approval return to Arkansas with the termination of parental rights and they finalized in Arkansas in an instance like that we have had cases where there is a a post adoption contact agreement agreed under Arizona courts and enforceable in Arizona. Because the termination happened in Arizona. If that makes sense yes it does yeah otherwise you're not going to if everything is done in another state damn this would not there would be no recourse okay thank you I appreciate the clarification. Are there any other questions by committee. Representative Penzo would you like to close for your bill. Yes I'm I'm. I guess I'd just like to say you know these these post post adoption contact Cremins may not be for everybody but for the for the folks that do one utilizing I would rather like to make that option available just also want to say that when my friends come up here last and there's a little bit of confusion on the bill and he he spoke against it and and we've had since had a conversation about it and he understood and was a little bit emotional if you're member but anyway we've had a good talk since in and in the result on that so anyway I just would appreciate a good vote. What's the will of the committee. Thank you we have a do pass as amended by representative Furman all in favor is there any discussion on the motion. Okay. Okay yes. And if I. Two of our grandchildren have come to us by adoption one was in Florida and they had an agreement worked out actually with the grandmother because the biological parents had severe drug addiction problems and we're not able to make any kind of the agreement themselves as far as staying in touch because they both were facing long term Penalties for some of their actions But that has worked very well as far as sending pictures and stories and things the second was here in Arkansas and it was an informal arrangement and then they all they ask the bio mother in the bio other ask if they could have access to. Our Facebook accounts the grandparents thanks for the cats because they knew we would be posting lots of pictures and stories of those grand children and that we would not block them they said they would not make comments they just wanted to say. And I am honored that he's now for a and I know that was informal that I think it can work beautifully especially if it's formalized so thank you for bringing this bill. Thank you any other discussion. Okay we have a motion do pass as amended by represented Fuhrman all in favor say aye. Opposed no. Congratulations you passed your bill thank you Committee. And thank you committee for your