City, County & Local Affairs Committee - Senate

Senator Boyd. That ability be recognized present your bill just go to the table and introduce yourself and be recognized proceed. And I think your Senator you're you're running. The eleventh house bill one sixty two yes so senator Justin Boyd and Mister brown fish is gonna join me and explain the bill and we'll discuss this yeah I will let us be. Centers of a very saying this bill is I'm sorry this is Albert Braun fish in the co owner of lost forty brewing here in Little Rock Arkansas. The bill that we're presenting today is really nothing more than creating a level playing field for Arkansas businesses today outside large macro breweries late I know that Anheuser Busch MillerCoors have the ability to put ready to drink products on the shelves of Arkansas establishments for Arkansas consumers through Arkansas distributors unfortunately today your Arkansas my crew microbrewery restaurants do not have that same capability simply asking for the opportunity to be able to put a competitive product on the shelf for Arkansas consumers requires all the same permitting that any other still re would have to do in the state of Arkansas and it also does not apply to any what counties so we believe it's a fairly straightforward bill that would be happy to answer any questions. Our server we any comes at a okay are there any questions for members of the committee. C. ninety three by Senator speak for against this bill. Are not the same with that Senator you're recognized close your bill. Thank you for the opportunity presents this bill appreciate a good vote in do pass in the second by somebody. All right we're gonna do pass six by Senator Solomon all in favor please say aye. Post graduate senate bill passes. All right next up Senator Irvin since we skipped over the last week. In center runs bill to eleven. Eight hundred yourself to be recognized for C.. Thank you so much members of the committee and and Mister chair and Senate bill two eleven and and I'm gonna let Laurie tutor and introduced herself for the record as well. Welcome director to Thank you Laurie teeter the Arkansas department of transportation director. Senate members Senate bill two eleven what this bill does is it just simply because it's the department of transportation on the same footing as the other agencies have which is their ability to carry of firearms under under the enhanced carry permit so it just clarifies that in the language by striking out there carve outs which was done originally and that original and enabling legislation so the department of transportation came to me and are seeking the approval and the authority for their employees to be able to utilize the enhanced carry permits and and she can speak more so I think to the to the reason behind or answer any questions that you may have but it's a very simple straightforward bill Ritter you want anything. I will just say that we're not sure why are jobless and not allowed to use the enhanced concealed Kerry. But we'd like to correct that and every year before the session we do a survey of employees and ask where some issues the two thirds of the problems that we have that might need to be brought before the legislature and this one has come up we feel like bad actors don't care about the law and that we would like our employees have the opportunity to defend themselves in the case of something bad that would happen could happen. So understandable Director thank you for your comments all right are there any questions for members of the committee. All right S. C. no questions reading by signed up to speak for against this bill. All right. Not a motion by Senator Irvin you're recognized because your bill I just I very much appreciate them listening to their employees and and I appreciate the people that work for the highway department reached out to me on this issue because it was important to them especially when they're working in remote areas of the state of Arkansas thank you appreciate it thank you very much Mister we're gonna motion from Senator Rice as second Senator Solomon all in favor please say aye aye aye opposed the resolution senator bill passes. All right next up Senator Stubblefield you got an amendment to the. Two minutes to Senate bill forty three. Cozart. All right of center to introduce yourself you're recognized for saving your bill. Thank you Mr chairman thank you committee of this Senate bill forty three was amended twice in the in the House Committee. Before I'd even had time to review of. Let me let me just explain to you what the two amendments do and how it changes the read the bill that we voted on in the Senate the change that to you approved in the Senate first of all. The first amendment here to secure daughters in first grade attending a performance by half dressed man. Receive dancing sexually do you care whether he's wearing a speedo or mini skirt. The original Senate bill that you voted on that I passed in the Senate. Of the targeted only the latter the this new amended version of the bill prohibits both. Amended house bill also reaches more broadly know the way the region Senate bill only prevent sexual drag shows and being hosted in an area where an unwilling minor can view the sexual show it is not exposed politically prevent such shows from admitting miners who want to ten the amended house bill explicitly prohibits all sexual performances from admitting minors. Also the original Senate bill Dobbs a prevent sexual drag shows from receiving taxpayer money. The amended house bill does stop any taxpayer money for paying for sexual performances the amended house bill is the only way to really protect minors for no reason using only draft that will stand up in court that none of us like to pass a bill that's going to get struck down by us by a judge and not help any children at all this amended version has parts that are even stronger than the original bill and it will withstand most and I've talked to a lot of a the lawyers including Attorney General says this for withstand the scrutiny of of of being thrown out of court so with that I'd be glad to answer any questions. Are there any questions for members of the committee. All right to say no questions or advice I speak for against this. Not saying anybody out with that Senator Stubblefield you're recognized close your bill I'm closed. About a motion do pass to concur in the house amendment number one and house and then the number two a motion from Senator Solomon second second Senator Rice all in favor please say aye. Opposed congratulations senator. Your bill passes as amended. All right. Next up. Senator Bryant. there table introduce yourself to be recognized receive your bill and I believe are going to start with Senate bill one ninety seven or thirteen house bill thirteen eighteen thirteen eighteen okay. There's gonna be starting with house bill thirteen eighteen. Senator to just introduce yourself for the record and be recognized for a minute here folks. Give staff the second passed out. Senator just want to briefly explain your. Amendment yeah. Thank you Mr chair just right Mister thirty two this is a of the bill that I I ran on the four last week they would pull down with some concerns from some members about record keeping one is a city makes a decision about how they came to the conclusion of of the best cost practices when their purchasing a an item over thirty five thousand so this language to review by leg on it. Basically give us give cities the procedure to retain records and in case an audit. Okay members of her next one nation. Any questions. Our motion to adopt. Much by Senator pricing by Senator still bill all in favor please say aye. Posed. Mr dotted Senator Rapert you're recognized perceive your bill. Thank you Mr Joshua Bryant district thirty two. Calling Senate bill ninety seven is a. I'm gonna say it's a very complex issue is an issue that that many states have to meet head on and try to figure out how to dress. What I did is I kind of I gathered all of the thoughts in and concerns a and at the end of the day I made a decision to file this bill to protect the property rights of of all our Kansans because I think as we start to erode some of these rights we're gonna wonder why we got the place we are in and some I think we're already beyond that point in some some may say it's it's if it's a future to come we have to stop right now. So with that I put down my thoughts and someone is coming to read in and dictate kind of what my thoughts. This bill pertains to the property rights of all Arkansas landowners. As you notice the top non codified section the bill was to serve as a reminder to us all the private property rights are enumerated in our state constitution. Specifically article to subsection twenty two states the right of property is before and higher than any other constitutional sanction and private property shall not be taken appropriated or damage for public use without just compensation obviously the first part of that it is higher and above any other constitutional sanction. Well one of the arguments against this bill is that it does not allow for local control I would argue that one local controls attempting to subdue a constitutional right we have the did the duty to debate this control in this assembly and determine if it is the will of the people. Per our constitution the General Assembly provides for General laws of the organization of cities in a corporate accounts these entities granted to operate via state oversight should not require its citizens within its borders to abandon these constitutional rights to private property. The General Assembly grant cities and towns is authority of regulatory powers to ensure a multitude of services and protections to citizens these ordinance which carry these regulations are allowed to be enforced me a police powers and zoning authority to ensure a balance to the community. Cities have long had to ensure that private property owners acted reasonably and responsibly with respect to their surrounding neighbors. This is been accomplished by zoning properties to be conducive to the area in this best matters. Residential commercial and industrial zoning are to name a few of the broader categories are which of which define the use again zoning is the defining of use not the owner not the operator not the occupant it inherently pertains to the land use of who owns it. I have not who owns or occupies it but of land use the manner in which cities can affect the owner occupant or through its police powers these powers ensure nuisances and public safety can be addressed items such as traffic control and parking noise issues and quiet hours animal control your complaints advertising and all other public nuisance issues the city wants to address can be curtailed under its policing powers all cities need to do is exercise. These police powers are able to protect all owners and renters. As one of the three main reasons you here for those opposed to short term rentals any new sense of a short term rental can can be generated and have the same issue of a long term rental or owner occupied property. We should be dealing with the Sunder policing powers of the local municipality. Yet many of our cities have chosen to adjust to the popularity of short term leasing by banning or limiting them through zoning regulations even though they are used as a residence or people do well and sleep. So the question must be asked has the property use change from residential to business or commercial use if that is the case and every long term mental should not be potentially classified as a vote as a business and so recorded only. I argue that the use has not changed regardless of duration the property still functions as a residential purpose in fact this question of duration and stay and use has been decided by the Arkansas Supreme Court in case in a two thousand eighteen case in garland county. In the decision overturning a lower court's decision justice just as hard rule that renting a property regardless of duration did not change the central character of the residence she further address the commercial purpose from blacks common law as a result of accruing from commerce or exchange where as unless the property is built with Sharon's or associated covenants restricts or expressly prohibits. The courts have determined a short term rentals and did not offend the restrictions that limit to the use of the property so long as it was used for residential purposes. Another argument raises a concern of potential lack of long term owner occupied housing within the community. Well cities are faced with addressing the needs affordable housing I've yet to hear any citizen complained when the value of the property increases the issue affordable and available housing should not be at the peril of rights of existing property owners instead city should encourage the development by reducing overreaching and partisan burdensome regulations. In fact one city real recently produced report addressing these concerns and it was determined at short term rentals were not a factor when considering a for more available housing but it did recommend trying to reduce existing permitting timelines which currently set at over three and a half years. The recommendation was to recruit to reduce that by twelve months. I see here that again reduce already long process of over three and a half years by twelve months cities can and should address these over burning regulations on New property instead of focusing on limiting the rights of current owners to solve the problem. The other item needed needing addressing this bill just to discuss is the taxation of this former residential usage. Early Arkansas law requires anyone who leases to a transient guests this is an inspection already anyone who leases to a transit yes Is subject to pay all gross tax receipts levied including compensating use tax and the tourism tax transient guests are defined by this code as those residing in a less than a month to month occupancy. That is included in a furnished rental home condo town home or any other provider. This would also apply to any city ordinance such as for advertising and promotion tax if written to do so the taxpayer does not required to have a license or permit as requirement to pay these taxes these owners must remit all that is due regardless of is for one day or three hundred sixty five individual nights. The ease of the market place provider is that they can perform this function and collect these taxes because they already have the relationship with the FNA and can enter into local municipal contracts collect local taxes. This bill does not impact existing or future covenants of use the restrictions of appeal a or H. away or any of their tax bill of assurances. This bill allows for municipalities to track short term rentals to ensure owners and representatives can be contacted for any new information or changes in city ordinances this bill allows for current taxes to be collected. Summarize our cities and towns have long allowed for long and short term residential properties to exist and residentially zoned uses the right to sell or to rent once property has long been recognized by our courts and is considered incidental to ownership. This bills insurer these rights were made equal among the residential markets the quiet enjoyment of all property can and should be addressed using police powers not zoning authority. The statement you will likely be that would likely raise a this debate is what I approach this differently if I live next to one of these properties my answer would be is I have lived next to many properties rentals and owner occupied properties. These properties have participated in many nuisance behaviors that I find nuisance. From illicit drug use to late night bands to refusal to clear a motor yard not once that I think about removing these owners property rights. All I did was call the city a petition for their police powers and ask them to levy fines to get them to curtail the nuisance. With that I will take any questions on the bill or thank you senator Bryan members or any questions on. Senator hammer than Senator Stubblefield Senator Hammer. Thank you Mr chairman I'm looking on page to just point clarification page two. Line eighteen to nineteen. The owner occupied residential home that is offered for free for thirty days or less services limiting the ability for short term rentals to be restricted VS thirty days or less. Yes Senator Hammer short terminals will you find for a single night or up to thirty days or less. Okay and so somebody moved out thirty days and then say they want to move in two days later that would reset the clock on that or is there any prohibit or should bridging it so it is just not continuous backed backer. If I understand your question it would it would reset the clock I think many parts to that where they can lease and they'll just base and move their wagon over for short term rentals it's it's it is. Most of want to stay will sign a long term lease they want to stay more than thirty days that's what we want to stay individual nights leave and come back. It would reset the clock because that is considered a short term rental okay thank you I will get back in the queue okay we'll get some answers on the field go ahead. Thank you Mr chairman. Right I received a lot of emails is I'm sure everyone has concerning this and I last year I spent quite a bit of time and you a massive sum you know at some buildings as and some of the nurses traveling nurses that were. Taking care of me and a lot of other places to you and may I. Or staying in short term rental people rent them room to stay in the house and they basically would have had very little other options to stay at had it not been for these people so it definitely helps those people of one of the main one of the main concerns that I hear is that the short term rentals have no regulations is it for. They would they would be with this bill they be regulated like any other residential property so the the policing powers of of a city can. Enact ordinances to curtail nuisances to create good neighbors that does not change so that in that includes the. What some would call rules of engagement. And I don't really know what they mean by that but they say that they would not be regulated or be under any kind of rules of engagement. And I'm I'm not sure what that means. I'm not either Senator Clark thank you Mr thank you Sir Stubblefield Senator Hammer you're back in the case. Thank you okay sure Page two. Starting with line thirty five. The local government enact or enforce any ordinance resolution rule or other requirement that requires an applicant to obtain a permit from local government no cost applicant prior to the application applicants operation short term rental provided that orders resolution rule or other requirement does not expressly or if any practical effect prohibit limited use of property has short term rental so my layman's interpretation of that would be that. They can a city or governing body Could. Would have to allow a permit to be used for the short term rental. And they could apply any other things that may apply like to say a rent house that is next to a short term rental but what they can do is tell them no no you cannot operate within our jurisdiction is that the advertisement is correct Senator okay. Thank you. Thank you Senator Hammer Senator Rapert you're recognized for a question. So you're recognized to address the occupancy. Concern of. how that is handled so chooses the reigning whole House and you've got to thirty eight. People can you address. Those with concerns. The weather's I think there's plenty of plenty of codes that get the city's can enforce their police powers that restrict occupancy and they can apply those now I think I think there's several communities that have cultural habits of of. Bring lots of people into the residence and fire codes and other codes would would limit that use so those police powers can be enforced if cities are made aware of that the city's probably already have something on the stage of. Chad read residency has I'll see for fire code them yes thank you. State senator Brian there are cities currently able to collect an AMP tax on the short term rentals yes okay yes there is a from my understanding they they if they're going through a market place the marketplace will enter into a local agreement to collect those taxes while they're collecting the marketplace taxes of tourism for those for the state there's nothing in here that would undo that okay thank you senator Betty question. So one of the things that I've heard and I to receive a lot of emails both in support of and and against but that the the hotel and and motel business industry is regulated at a higher level than the yes for their for their. operations. Have you heard any of that and and and I haven't received any details as to more significant regulations other than building code design is really of a common one they have to have sprinklers and. They have those in the residential areas of some of some cities as well right yes some cities are adopting such as regular codes for residential properties but with the residential function of the property is different than the classification of how big a hotel is so expect a codes are based on size fits greater than twelve thousand feet if a path of X. is greater than seventy five feet all those playing the fact that do not come liquor into inside of a a residential property and and besides that I did not hear any details of of of additional regulations other than the collection of the tax which this you said still it's kind of like the internet sales tax it's always there just is never been truly enforced or it's on the honor system that this doesn't change that but it doesn't change the law either that requires that it be remitted right correct correct so if the if a short term rental operators chooses to use a local classified ads and they don't have a marketplace provider it's still on them to collect you know to send in those taxes over city requires a permit so you will know that they should expect some revenue based on the income generated by the short term rental but short terminal operator that uses a market place because of our law of of two hundred transactions are greater than one thousand dollars of gross receipts once that kicks in the marketplace provider will always pull down each year will pull and that taxes required by the state from sales tax to there is a tax. Thank you. Senator Hammer is recognized for a question thank you Mr. So if so there would meet they would prohibit a city if you got a if you have a short term rental you know some of the they they still have to live in that house right there's not anything that would allow a property owner to classified as the resident and then it turned into where they're just renting it out every thirty days to maybe a new group of people or maybe every other month the written back to the same people is there anything in the bill that prohibits that allows that. You do not prohibit us that's why very calling we're short term rental operator has the primary residence if it a local event comes up and they can make you all the money on their property as the as the right should be to do so they could they could make a go stay with the you know in in law in a different state police other property short term. Like that pay their taxes and then when that person vacates a move back in his or anything it would prohibit a city that they had a bad actor that had one of these and they determine that that's not the case that would allow them to pull that permit prohibit that person from operating that property if the prohibits for a strong word it would be more like that through their police powers they can enforce an act ordinances that would that would make it cost prohibitive for them to proceed until they rectified the situation. Is that allowed in the rental business because I mean I live in a neighborhood where there are rental properties and sometimes it's harder to get the rental person out because they can use the law in order to stay in there even when they're not paying rent so trying draw a comparison between what happens in the long term rental business versus the short term rental business given all the problems that are sometimes in the long term rental what can you give me any kind of a what I would say aye I'm in the long term mental game and that becomes a civil a civil matter you can get course go through and actions of elections of notice to the sheriff's office Milton it comes a civil action as far as as far as the the policing powers if I have a tenant that is abusing the powers as the owner of the property I'm the one that gets notification the one that pays the fine and then I have to make that right with the tenants the the correct the issue and and pay pay me what I'm paying the fine correct the issue if they don't have perceived addiction. Okay thank you. Senator Solomon you're recognized for a question and answer some. Thank you senator yeah I'm looking on Page two line four differentially Committee this boils down to is is not mmhm they can't make a rule that's more burdensome that an ordinance resolution rule or other requirements that currently applies to all residents of the property so this is for leveling the field I think it's how you started out that's what this bill is attended attempting to do for all property owners are in the same regulations that is correct Senator thank you. Senator Stubblefield you're recognized for a question okay okay. All right members are there questions from the committee. Not saying no we got quite a few people signed up to speak Senator Rice you're recognized for motion. Thank you Mr and and realize there's quite a few signed up we want as many speakers you can but I I would make a motion to allow a limit of twenty minutes per side for those to testify plus we do not count the time that the members questions those testifying against that so that would not come out to be twenty minutes side is my motion got a motion by Senator rise in the second by Senator still feels any discussion on the. Are all in favor please say aye. Opposed all right so posted about fifteen people I believe there signed up to speak for against this bill so that's going to limit to about three minutes Bill per person not counting any questions by members of the committee and so with that Yes Sir. One on that list I know historically you know people get up and say the same thing over and over again that does exactly use the time wisely and if there are you know I would just ask respectfully that those that are speak for or against the bill maybe they might want to decide who's going to use that twenty minutes in order to get said what each side wants to see if the chair would maybe thinker yeah okay for that thank you Senator Hammer so we will ask that you know your pretension to take your son to speak for or against it there somebody had to you that's kind of saying the same things along the lines you had planned on saying if you'll take that in consideration so we're not just re treading the same ground then with that we're gonna start with. John Wilkerson with this fully got the president speaking is this John this. Against the rest can go against and for. John Wilkerson accounts of the Municipal League first of all huge thank you to senator Bryan representative can say they've they've talked to us a lot about this issue this is a very complex issue one that we've been trying to grapple with for many years of cities and towns one that is as is usually uniquely different for every city and town so you know for instance amount home has an ordinance sales bill has an ordinance Brian has some sort ordinance Jonesborough Clarksville I mean it's just across the board as to what cities have what ordinance and what is important to them when it comes to regulating short term rentals I will say my discussions with cities about this this is not about grant regulating grandmothers writing at their basements is not about owner occupied you know folks here reading out a room or even snow birds that are you know spending six months out of the year one one part of the state and going back to Chicago the other six months running out that place is not about that it's mainly been about member and non city owners date that by up tracts of land and I don't I don't over so it's not what they're buying a tire neighborhoods body means that they are buying multiple houses and some cities and operating what we determined to be a business and in the city now granted it's not exactly business right it's still a residential purpose like Senator Brian mentioned there's a Supreme Court case it talks about if you let somebody later head on the pillow in your house it's of the residential it's a residential nature with that said these are different these are different entities that we really ever seen before in the state again the idea the grandmother reading out the basement that's nothing new we get that it's it's the it's the out of at the out of towners buying up those tracts of land having no no real investment community other than this this house and renting it out and so. I've spent three weeks in trying to get through this I try to understand and is just a very very complex issue and every city is different so my my hope is and again Senator Brian's been terrific to work with their B. and B. got met earlier today was terrific Larry Kelly several terrific we're we're really struggling to find a way to make all this work and we just don't know it's it's a new system what I worry about happening is that cities are just got it from the ability to regulate in any way other than the way record where you regulate read a regular residence and then leaving us with very limited options now again I understand that this isn't a business in the classical sense in a lot of ways it is what is different than regular houses and I think we need to recognize that recognize that difference and that's why just saying we can't regulate them in any other way then we regulate House is problematic for cities because we do all offer different sort of issues with short term rentals so. The Department the concern that I have with docket to the minute because I was a lot of people in a lot more about this that are signed up to speak so I'll make my comments brief. My issue with the amendment is one there's no payment for a permit I don't know of any other any other entity in the city that doesn't have to pay for a permit so I think that sets them apart right there they're automatically treated differently which causes me some concern but the bigger concern is that the the language that says the requirement does not expressly or any or in any practical effect prohibit the limit prohibit or limit the use or properties short term rental if the term practical affected because as a lawyer a lot of concern. The devil's in the detail that it was in those two words what is those two words mean what is practically affect me in and let us town centre Brown earlier if I want a short term rental and he he does not answer terminal and when the same neighborhood and the city goes in regular and service inspect my property for life safety codes which they're allowed to do that they don't inspect his property cannot sue the city and state you're practically limiting me because you're inspecting my property being inspected inspected Senator Bryson property next door in the city says well we have to because you're about your short term rental and it causes us some additional concerns so I don't want to belabor the point too much but I do want to illustrate that this is a complex issue and we're really trying to work it through and we're just worried that this bill goes too far Mr what was in your city fifty or sixty minutes And so we got for their side speak against us about five minutes so if you're done if there's any sales right okay thank you senator Hammer you're recognized for a question. Thank you thank you for your testimony got a quick question and going back to the question as center right and that is that these homes are actually occupied by individuals that own the home and party argument is that your concern that people and probably is happen I mean that people are you know companies or whoever are buying up these properties and then it's a way around short term I mean less I misunderstood people actually have to live in the homes that on the homes based on testimony while ago how is it that your concern is legitimate or met. With regards to companies bind it up and then. Somebody not living in it that actually owns it okay I may be mistaken but I don't I don't see in the bill rates limited just owner occupied short term rentals doesn't rise saying that well yeah it's for clear that that's one path others will by five a long term but I cannot. Find a long term tenant for but it's an area of town that. People want to stay in does not live there but not I can go and we sent out you know we can score we get a time or not at the time you know the Burnaby on me I have to clean it out of the proceeds off a bit I I'd go through that I have to I have to let the market dictate what people want to do one around the five star ratings are just six would promote my property. Can I ask you questions cross tables. So. I own a house. But I don't ever live in that house. But I want to use it as short term property for thirty days at a time is is that what this bill would allow to do. One day to thirty days yes. But I don't ever have to live in the house as the owner of the house no okay all right thank you think Senator Hammer Senator Rice you're recognized for a question. Thank you again for the audience know this time of our questioning joint against Joe is there anything current law in code or maybe in some particular cities not in others that designates a corporation that owns a certain number residents that. Mandatorily make them. Register as a business you know we see a lot of things if you've got one to three it doesn't count against you if you've got three to twenty year that if you got twenty or more I'm realized builders would might have a multiple homes sitting there waiting for sale but is there anything in that that would affect this and I'm looking at both sides to to give some he is a of mine that there there are arguments on both sides per and and certainly are and we appreciate hearing them I don't know I don't know the answer the question I'm not seeing that in the short term rental ordinance but I haven't looked in other places so I'm not sure about that one separation of thank you thank. Senator Solomon and centers. Thank you in your opening comments you mentioned that these owners may have no real investment in the community what is that man what what I meant was that you know we're not when we live in neighborhoods I think we were expecting all of our neighbors to sort of you know be a part together going the same purchased or that sort of thing And when someone doesn't live in the neighborhood we kind of view it is harder for them to sort of investing that sort of neighborhood aspect of it so I should have said investment opportunities a better word as far as sort of being a part of the neighborhood yeah I think it's difficult to assign one's motivation yes on the volume of people were I agree with you okay thank you thank you. Senator Stubblefield you're recognized thanks chairman John. If I've got a five thousand square foot house my wife and my kids of all graduated moved away. This bill will let me petition off half the house but only use it in rent to someone else. Yes. No problems with the city that's my house I can do with what I want to. Well I don't some cities may have different right I this is the start we've been having is that we and that's what's been great about this this debate is perhaps it's best that cities don't just a short term rentals thirty your last three days or less that's what it's period I think what we're we're realizing is that you know a grandmother read reading out the basement is different than something else I think it's going to be different this is a house of pay property tax on all my life I won't ever do that correct I'm the owner I have the right to do with this is United States of America right I have the right to do with the house what I want to do with this long it doesn't put some kind of a potential hazard in the city sure so why can't I rented out without any. Interference from the city I don't know that we're saying I don't know that any city saying you can absolutely do that Eureka Springs as a different sort of situation going on but I don't think it's a matter of saying you can't do it it's a matter of making sure it's properly regulated based on the needs of the community that's what the cities are telling me so I honestly I can't tell you exactly what every cities thinking right I think the concept is that back to center so eleven or my answer the Senator Solomon questions in owner occupied we believe is very different than a non owner occupied short term rental and so if you're petitioning half of your house off to rent that's very different than someone who just buying entire tract of land that somewhere else or or house and reading it out really as a business and so what you're doing is party I will get you far field but what you're doing I live you as you're using a property shooting said because you live there and you're you're part of the community but we're having difficulty with folks that are part of the community buying up houses and using them as a business and neighborhoods. It's complex I wish I had clear answers well it it it in all. The the right to all property is a god given rights not a government run. That's one of the inalienable right to. the this is something that people hold dearly if the property. And they should have the right to do with that. As a police. I'm a freedom loving god and not just I have a real problem with the government coming in and saying you can't do this you can't do that because I get into with the government and I I'll say this is the and I had this conversation many times this is we don't like over regulation either I mean that's not we don't want to over regulate how some cities and towns may go too far we get that you're you're may believe they do or the citizens may do I get that but some sort of proper regulation and this is kind of what we're looking for and we don't have the answers right now we're trying to figure out the answers in part of this process is helped us identify maybe some answers as to what I worry about with this bill is it's just saying no you can't do it and we're sort of stuck with well there may be some real reasons to to regulate in this area. But I but I see your point man appreciate it thanks Stubblefield Senator Solomon to a question okay Senator Hammer is recognized for a question thank you and and my question is triggered by something that you just said about people coming in buying up houses and their intent is to buy them up to use them for thirty day rentals I've got a house to sit in my neighborhood that people have come in and bought up in some of our local business investors and they don't even live in those houses they're they're rental property that's that's what they are. And the argument of people or businesses buying up homes for the purpose of short term rental I'm having trouble differentiating the the the concern between somebody that uses that approach versus the person or the company a comes in and buys of houses in my community with the intent of doing a six month rental for a month you know a year long rental and on the on the basis of the principal the argument I can understand the difference between what they do. That way versus short term so if you have any kind of resolver work at that so what I what I've heard and I'm no expert on this trying to be the last few weeks but the argument that I've heard about that is that long term rentals come here come here to in circuit city and they live and they work and they are part of the community church road years coming in as a hotel or you're coming interstate for a couple days in a meeting and so and when I use Airbnb fully recommend I do I was in there for a couple days alleys and so I think the idea is that and by the way there's a whole body of law landlord tenant law so that that's the kind of a whole other issue as well but that's the argument that I've heard about this is that those people that are living here for a long term they're getting jobs and are part of the community. thank. Senator one more question John yes Sir I do understand that when whenever you have a large group of people move into the short term returns and you've got into a small town or small city who who is on a septic system let's say for example instead of a sewer system how that could become an issue right I understand that and I don't know if such interest in this bill or not but You know that could cause problems for the whole city yes and and and that's a good point and that that's kind of what what we're we're getting to and what we're realizing is the more we talk about the more read in a five you've got this potential issue in this potential issue and that potential issue and and and go back to the language in the bill it says that you can't practically of practically prohibit or limit and so we're we're kind of concerned back to the septic issue back to the the example is giving we're both in a septic system but you as the mayor of the city want to make sure I'm complying right as a short term rental I don't say well you're not you're not going over there and checking center Bryant's the House and that's what those kind of issues that were sort of senior is is what we're kind of worried about we want to make sure that we can address and a practical effect I'm worried as a from a legal standpoint gives away or even really limits us effectively practically it's us and our ability to regulate. There's of any other questions. You know what I'm listening discussion sounds like we want to solve the problem before moved forward in Arkansas has a long history of being over regulated I don't think we will ever solve all the problems and then move forward we're going to have to move forward and steps I think I heard you say in fact that this has a lot of positive things. Moving us forward and if there are other issues we're going to have to solve them in the future but I just don't see us standing still and not taking positive steps to reduce the regulations especially on people's property that they own sure so do you agree well this well you know I I I certainly understand your point but I will say this is this process has moved us forward immensely and I mean we we've never had this level of discussion ya got planners back here I'm I'm very familiar we're talking with mayors and city council members ever city attorneys this process has moved us forward it just a conversation I had with with the error being be a little bit ago I realize when I'm talking to him that there's a lot of things Airbnb does that get solved maybe some concerns that cities have so you know I I see what you're saying and I think this process has moved us forward I think the bill itself however sort of puts a it's done you can you can you sort of solved that problem without allowing us a lot of latitude yeah the the discussion may have moved the agenda forward as to what we think but until we pass legislation nothing changes I think this bill helps us move in that direction if we have to come back and solve some problems or or deal with it and I'm I'm favorable to doing that but the if you're making the point that this discussion moves it forward it doesn't but only thing that moves forward is passing legislation thank you can I if I may just a quick the one thing that I will add to that and and certainly I understand your point if this were broader for us to to be able to. Take this discussion moved forward and sort of I don't wanna say flip it but right now this is this is erring on the side of not ready or not allow the city regulate if we can get it back to we have to have a good reason we can't just go up and say we don't want short term rentals for this reason we have to establish a good reason we have to demonstrate that reason through a public hearing or whatever it may be that's what I'm sort of looking for is give us some breathing room let this whole thing breed itself because right now I think that this limits the issue from breathing and living on a sound that that's mine I think you could bring for the legislation this session if you want to correct something this bill does And correctly you could run legislation and you certainly as the Municipal League have enough people to who listened general genuinely. Direction forward thank you thank you Mr. You Senator Solomon. All right members running or questions for Mr Wilkerson all right John thank you very much all right next up will do for I want to ask Shanda Michelle sandy with bill is to short term rentals are you all together okay shall we don't collect all together. Is the second time. It'll come up and just does yourselves and who you're with and you be recognized your comments. Yes. There's a little button in the middle. A second internet connection. It's just that that'll turn the microphone on his car on the table Senators yourselves and whether he recognized for C.. Good morning I'm Michelle Chiado I live in the Senate for terminal. I'm sandy IV I'm from both of us short term. I'm sure the gears I'm originally from elements to live in Rogers Arkansas and I am short term rentals in the city of Bellavista and also the townhouse present for the city of Bellavista what ways you are recognized to present your comments thank you. DO care for those first pages you want okay. So I'm Michelle Chiado former justice of the peace the resident and owner of an owner occupied short term rental I made the decision to short term reading twenty twenty when the governor decided that my business was one of the committee he thought was not essential I quickly made the decision so I could continue to pay my mortgage since the governor left me with no income I come here today in support of SB one ninety seven to protect the property rights of the home I live in and utilize to make supplemental income is protected by the Arkansas constitution. It's also bring court decided in twenty eighteen that short term reading is residential running as I'm sure you know Bellavista passed an STR ordinance a very stringent ordinance one that requires extra homeowner costs and occupancy limitations depending on sewer or septic if they are on sewer there occupancy will be decided differently than those on septic as well as the homeowners expense for septic inspection but is not required of any other homeowner in Bellavista. When facts were presented to the city in regards to water usage and that S. T. R. as we're not putting undue strain on the septic systems showing proof of gallons used per day in accordance with the water usage per ACT four oh two we were ignored a septic tank doesn't fail because it's in a rental. When we reminded them that the platforms collected and pay sales tax in a and P. taxes directly again we were ignored and now they're requiring us to file with the a and P. personally and paid even though we do not collect the moneys the platforms to you and they remit again we were ignored when we reminded them of the platforms offer additional insurance taking orders once again and are now demanding writers for personal insurance policies have another direct expense to the homeowner. When reminded that the city of Bellavista doesn't have any other business license permit or rules like additional insurance again we were ignored we asked to start with the registration have logical caps on occupancy and just enforce ordinances that were already on the books we were dismissed in fact to the for a request I've gathered information on the common complaints noise and parking from twenty eighteen to twenty twenty two city wide out of six hundred ninety two noise and parking complaints called in non construction related only twenty three for noise and six were parking at a six hundred and ninety two complaints only twenty nine where short term rentals over a five year period that is six complaints per year. Ordinances are supposed to be across the board not just on a small segment of the properties of the city to specially subject myself in twenty one other owners felt so strongly that we did retain an attorney and have since filed a suit against the city for this ordinance. There is a time that the state must intervene when cities over reach and this is one of them remember the state has made several laws that cities have to follow cigarette age drinking age even abortion and this property protecting bill should be passed to do the same. Thank you so much for all of your time and your dedication to the citizens of this great state I call home. Our thank you all. About seventeen minutes to anybody get if you're having it out of that. Yeah I would like to register to vote in the oceans for her so coming from I'm a business woman and a my career included selling millions of dollars of business into Walmart I'm calling on their buyers Because I a contracted Lyme disease I no longer can work full time and it's always been my dream to have a business of my own my house burned down in two thousand and nineteen and I was told that I couldn't have that retaining wall where it was and I was told I couldn't have native Arkansas stone on my front of my house and you know being the over regulations and so I complied with all of that And I took thousand square foot off of the home that burned and I put it on my life next door and built a one car garage exactly with the same we don't look is the house and of rental above it so that I could get some of my life back and some of my business capabilities to work and support the city and support myself this is paying off my house payment it's a very you know I'm just saying that I support local businesses I have numerous people tell me what they've done when they've come here even if it's only been for three days we went about the bill to the golf cart riding we learned all about the city and you know we're promoting a specially Northwest Arkansas is promoting all this big tourism and and Bellavista specially and there's a place to stay if this ordinance about a minute left okay if this ordinance goes through it's going to hurt people like me who are trying to make a living and support other small businesses it'll be taking all that way. Thank you. I'm here today in favor of SB one ninety seven as a realtor in the State of Arkansas Missouri I want to bring to your attention the complete misuse of power that the mayor past and current as well as the mayor pro tem is imposed on our constituents Bellavista was billed as a vacation community the book from vision to reality nineteen fifteen to nineteen ninety three depicts the vision that the Lineberger brothers had for the town of Bellavista as a vacation destination for extended families of the community in short many of the homes were purchased and managed by the cation rentals what the platform of Airbnb vacation rentals became an obsolete method of property management resource as a licensed realtor I wanted to write and enjoyment of my property to be at my discretion being a full time landlord has fewer perks than the rights of STR owners property rights that being said I know and understand the safety risk of running short term as a previous safety and environmental meet risk manager I'm very stupid to the safety precautions as well as the inspection items that would actually adversely affect its tenants we take great pride and the upkeep and the management of our properties the city has spread a lot of disinformation not based on any factual information but on their fear based notions Airbnb is are nothing but a party scene and a nuisance which couldn't be further from the truth about one minute right now I currently have a family that we stand there with grieving the loss of a loved one and I've had many travelling nurses parents relocating their children family members attending weddings and relocating without the expense of a long term rental. ALR has has had a complete disdain not only for his constituents but also for his own peer group. I want to ask each and everyone of you have any of you as a homeowner been able to hand select your neighbors as they move into your neighborhood or do you just get to meet and greet them when they close on the sale of their property STR's are away for members of our community as Northwest Arkansas continues to grow to come into the area and be able to get to know their friends and their neighbors prior to purchasing homes in our area thank you all right members questions from the committee. Say no questions thank you. Thank you. All right. Tyler Overstreet air. Dollars that speak against yes circular this yourself and also your with the be recognized to see remarks yes Sir hi my name is Tyler Overstreet on the planning director for the city of Bentonville Arkansas so just to kind of I'd like to start I think John set set set set the stage very well when talking about the issue of short term rentals and sort of the city perspective on this I'd like to talk a little bit about the currently the land in Bentonville and then some what we're kind of looking at as a as a municipality and and maybe some potential next steps so that will. Doesn't currently have any regulations on short term rentals but it's an ongoing conversation are we had an affordable housing workgroup that over the course of twenty twenty two met and discussing the issue of affordable housing if the final report on page seven did recommend the city at least researching and and potentially looking at regulating short term rentals as an issue in regard to affordable housing it was also ranked a the number two priority by our little local city council and Planning Commission not saying necessarily that direction and any kind of ordinance would take but saying Hey we want you all to look at this come back with some recommendations. As part of that process we we dug into the data through a through a website called their DNA to look at the number of current active listings in Bentonville and compared against some of our local that agency sort of that proportion of short term rentals other total housing supply there's over seven hundred active listings right now in Bentonville those are everything from give someone reading out a spare bedroom someone who's built a a a accessory dwelling unit so like a typical mother in law's quarters or even it and I think it's the primary concern you're going to hear from myself and the members of American planning association Arkansas's executive committee is single family homes purchase for the express purpose of being run as an Airbnb not necessarily by local residents but by outside investors so I heard it brought up earlier this idea of community and and what's the difference between Airbnb is and and rental units I think in some ways long term residents can create ties of community and the social fabric of our municipalities while at times you know transient populations are transient renters come for for a brief experience and I think we can support both of those things and that kind of brings me to to my conclusion and some of the things that I'd like to ask for an and I know mayor or man or man or would like to ask for would be asking for additional time and discussion as I think we're really close to a compromise here that can work both for local governments planners city councils mayors across the region and the and the state legislature some cities I all agree they may well of gone too far in their regulations and with the scope at which they took them but you know the the perspective we're taking in Bentonville is yes we understand that the other's differences and there's new ones and say someone. Earning out of bedroom someone running out of a garage apartment or a detached structure on the same lot to be run as an Airbnb if if they occupy that home on site by the way we're looking at is there's a difference between that and say you know outside investors or people from outside the region purchasing single family homes that could otherwise be purchased by long term residents. and for that reason really the main way we're looking at this is is with that latter point. I guess what I'd like to conclude with just a brief you know thought of allowing Arkansas cities neighborhoods residents to to chart their course on short term rentals I don't think I'm I nor city Evansville is against any kind of regulation from the state level on short term rentals but I would like some additional time to discuss it and to all of you all and for us to to hear from a residence our constituency and come up with a fair solution for everyone thank you Tyler. All right members are you gonna Senator Hammer service or something of the. One or let the thing Tyler there yeah perfect thank you thank you thank you. A couple couple questions you get your response use made a statement that there has been some over reach by cities. When the city takes it too far what's the recourse for the citizens as far as how to deal with that I think it varies by city by city and most local ordinances be it via a variance process a conditional use process whatever it might be within their zoning codes will have some sort of right of appeal baked into but that is highly variable city by city. Right so would you say that this piece of legislation then would level as somebody made the reference while ago at least the starting point for those conversations or how would it prohibited because the one thing I I would argue looking at both sides of the dower argues piece of legislation does do is set the standard for here's where the conversation starts so as not to allow cities that maybe are too over reaching or just prohibit the use of them all together. How would this piece of legislation not achieve that goal well that was a question I had for you all to was what would happen to the city's who currently have regulations on this bill doesn't really have a provision for what happens to them is any local ordinances that they've passed or they revoked by action of this passage. Okay. And then are you an attorney now okay maybe if an attorney comes to the table one thing I was wonder what is on the Supreme Court ruling there but it keeps referencing in this discussion was that on the basis of the individual owning the property or was it on the basis of a company owning that property and may be an attorney or somebody to come to the table and address that thank you Mr yeah thank you Senator. John I you're intermediary insights the Senator Hammer. Master just checking I believe it was owner occupied as the if that's the question on that is recorded but I don't know. Sir Brian it was it was owned in a trust it was occupied by them they're just leasing the short term. Okay. Thank you. Senator Solomon you're recognized for a question if you're if you're currently working with people to set the floor like this bill would really help you do that. Perhaps I mean I think it a lot of it depends on what final form this bill takes some of the things we've looked at or if considered such as You know looking at say the the investor properties a little bit different than how we do others those things would be covered in this bill by. But will give you an opportunity to discuss the. Okay and the other thing I would say that you the I'll be very willing I'm sure senator Bryant would work with you all I hope this passes and after does you'll have about a month to get together just as we do we can't make bills outside of session you got about a month to get together and come up if we can. X. it partially our fix it in full yeah we're very willing to do that in the last when you're you made the comment that would of their cities that don't comply that usually doesn't turn out very well for those cities in dealing with legislative issues so I would encourage the city to have anticipate problems to get together let's solve this we have a short window but we need to take care of it. Would you agree. I think my question was more not necessarily to cities choosing not to compliance what happens to those who are currently more intense than the new state law thank you for a this will be state law thank you didn't turn out well for cities are agencies that don't follow state law thank you Mr thank you senator. Our members are there any other questions for Mister Richard. Okay there's about the director such as chairman of short term rentals will be under the same requirements as other residential properties correct. As the the bill as currently written yes okay this long they're not more persons. Yes okay. Thank you Sir Stubblefield. All right Mister Richard I see more questions your excuse thank you thank you. Right. Yeah. Bring a walk off. Sprinting here. In order about two minutes. On a. All right first I'd like to say that my passion and interest in this is not as an STR owner but as the manager of multiple properties I'd like to explain by saying I'm sixty years old and I have experienced both the worst and the best of life I'm here to talk to you about the Senate bill one ninety seven and how important. For the protection of the property rights I am a living example of a person how a person can turn their life around even after facing serious adversity for five long years I was in prison serving time for crimes I regret deeply however during that time I made the decision to turn my life around. And it has been. Since nineteen ninety eight that I made the decision that I wanted to start my own small cleaning business and through this with their B. and B. and managing the properties I've been able to employee eight single women trying to make a living support their families I have local law on companies taking care of our properties and maintenance crews and because I have the having the opportunity I've been able to help others so not is a property owner but is just someone this is going to strict jobs for several of us and take away from everything that I've worked so hard to accomplish. Thank you for thank you bye would you mind Saddam's was if there's any questions for members of the committee. Okay thank you for being here. All right now we're gonna go to against. Jim **** upon your last name thank you Sir okay. Languish the gonna Larry Kelly. You're very welcome on up. Bill before okay. My name is Larry Kelly I'm a real estate broker in Northwest Arkansas you have with them the card is with the I have and it can Stacy Lambe okay okay and the Nicks managers property managers short term rentals in Northwest Arkansas Stacey is a short term rental owner in Northwest Arkansas. I'm a real estate broker not been involved in some of this conversation in Fayetteville and Bellavista and becoming more and more familiar as municipalities around the state start to have this conversation and I think it's a very important conversation referred to have at the state level because municipalities are attempting to regulate something they obviously don't know anything about and as was previously stated they Michelle stated that they really have not been unwilling to get educated on those things all that we've been trying to participate as citizens to offer input in fact all of the United the mailed information last night related to the national association of realtors advocacy and talking points as well as the Moncada's study and policy report and basically the right to rent these properties is a core right of private property ownership. Misco read the to happen it so if you guys can okay then and the fact that there the things that they're bringing up or based on a motion or not based on facts are not based on data and and that's the reason that I have some problems with these arguments from the cities they don't base them on data Michelle was just talking about the number of complaints well they don't have an excessive number of complaints they just simply don't exist they talk about these non owner occupied investors from out of state and the truth of the matter is that most Airbnb is or V. are short term rentals most of those people even though other investors so they don't own it in their own name I own multiple properties in my trust name in my corporate named Anna LLC and that's pretty typical in the real estate investing arena but it doesn't mean that I own a hundred. In fact that's just typically what we see is that most owners have one to three SO if you're if you're looking at that you're trying to make an argument that these big powerful for operations are coming in and controlling the market is just simply isn't true it's not a fact it's just a motion of we've heard things about phone or about the occupancy limits. That's a myth as well you know Michelle alluded to the fact that the they were trying to tie this to some sort of occupancy limitation based on septic system sized but they ignored the fact that septic systems are designed to handle certain amount of gallons per day that's the way they're designed not based on persons and so they do have some basic guidelines to that based on the number of people but is based on use. I stay in short term rentals when I travel I don't do my laundry there I don't wash my car there I'm not using it as much as if I were full time occupying that property but I do go and shop in the grocery stores and I do those kinds of things that do connect me to the community so I'm gonna interrupt you real fast because we got yes a minute left to do Mr Gabler miss landed on any comment that'll make sure you all the. Because we've got you know several people are signed up to speak I'm trying to I appreciate that three minutes this is this is a big situations a big conversation at three minutes just simply isn't enough. Yeah I think we agree that discussion needs to continue but I'll make it really brief guys I'd five a small business owner my wife and I started a small short term rental vacation rental management company and we represent a lot of people who also were small business owners many of them locals who by it ended up wanting to you know buy a property near some mountain biking trails or something like that in Arkansas I just wanted to make a quick point that these are not big corporations a backup with Larry said these are middle class families people that are just trying to investor money away they know that's going to turn out for the family in the end and getting to subtexts I think Stacey can can form this but the water usage is is much lower for for short term rentals and there's really no reason to regulate septic tanks because of such a system breaks somebody wants to continue with the property they're gonna have to fix it they're going to have to go in there and and make sure that's working and then lastly you know as far as he's not having any regulations these are some of those you know already regulated properties by small business you know the national market already the channels like Airbnb and vrbo they have certain standards of these people have to meet and also you know the market takes care of a guy's of somebody's causing a problem it's few and far between we had over a hundred properties and I think the number of parties we had was maybe five six in two years it's really about the fear is a lot bigger than the reality is and so what ends up happening is people you know people to regulate on the front end but you know what happens is Airbnb or rates of these people we rate them on how they do and that is how the market regulates this if there's somebody who comes across a problem well they get about rating and it'll get to you know stay in an Airbnb again Mr. Got one I'm not enter them in this land if you've got any. It's. I'm here representing a hundred and seventy people in Northwest west Arkansas could make it today that we all feel strongly that cities refusing the rights to regulate houses for no reason they already have the police powers that they need to enforce what they need but also want to address just quickly I deal with a lot of data and facts for us here investors and owners at the average as you're owner who owns one one house so there's a lot of misinformation that is being said even today that these big corporations our company and that none of that is true and I have all the data and if you guys ever want to call me up I'll be happy to go through anything with you for example four hundred eighty eight STR's in though the Senate currently at thirty of them are owned by an LLC in those thirty people live out of state everything else is the Arkansas from an Arkansas resident and the truth is when we invite people into our homes these are our own personal vacation homes for our own families and we invite others to the state to live like a local it's literally the slogan that we live and die by Airbnb slogan is along you know the use the word along and we're opening our homes and the local economy to all of these gas and they are and. Part of the community where they live they are long term or not so again there's a lot of data that keeps getting thrown around by the Municipal League by the cities that they just don't know they don't do it hard enough and they run with a lot of misinformation and a lot of fear and it's just not true we appreciate you guys all right senator Hammer that Senator Solomon thank you and you hit on one of the points your your property manager so I'm an owner and manager owner and manager so as far as the properties that you manage that are owned by people. DO not big corporations is illustrate what was the number you said how will this number is this number is just a fact of all properties in the area not just the ones that I own and The average as your own or nationally owns one hello everyone home when okay and then the other thing is you pay taxes correct support so everyone of those are generating taxes whenever the right address lately comparable to what's paid at a motel yes exactly the same okay so I'm just gonna put this out there and you can either respond or somebody come behind your you can close is is is is a matter of competition against the motels and trying to keep the motels busy and they're losing business because people are going to your the the places that you own and Airbnb. I don't think so I think that there's a place for all of us at the table okay I people traveling short term one night there Senate hotel people bringing families reunions funerals there come into bigger homes houses that can bring their kids and they can have an millet at dinner table now we have to come in different markets okay thank you. Senator Solomon recognized for a question thank you Mr. You are available more than three minutes. If the correct that we spent hours reading through the emails were available three hundred sixty five days a year almost twenty four hours a day so just want to clear that up that if people want to talk to us they're very we're very open we have meetings and not three minutes so I understand the frustration of testifying in three minutes that that's that's a small segment of what happens sure thank you. I thank you for the convention center. All right members or any other questions from committee. I see nine dollars just thank you for being here. Mister James Walton and here and you'll be speaking against members. Yes I'm James Waldron's on the president of the Arkansas chapter of the American planning association term myself a recovering bureaucrat I used to be the former planning director for the city of Conway and share a few things about experience with. I suggest that particular ordinance Spartan our goal what we had happen in Conway was that we had some folks that high school students and you see a students who who recognize Hey we've got some short term rentals in town and we want to start throwing house parties and that was so we we devise what we what we termed a a no knuckle head ordered. In in essence that we required a local property representative of someone that could come and be with respond within an hour when we had neighborhood complaints and so that that that is a key thing that I think would effectively be limited by the the the bill in its current form which. Very appreciative of Senate right having you know discussion on this and and and looking at that but that is a I think it's a really key provision the other thing that we had associated with that was this ability to prohibit them if we had a series of repeated complaints because if we have to rely solely on nuisance requirements it's almost like chasing a ghost because you go to court case of a court case a past small fine and then we're back at it we're doing the same thing and so that is the reason why those provisions were in that work that's I think the other thing that is is problematic about this is that it takes away the ability for a voter initiative. So let's say let's say the we have a small community and they have said we want to pass an ordinance for community majority of the voters in the community say that it's on the ballot that passes this effectively prohibits that from being able to be done and and I think that's also very problematic. All right James thank you I got a question here the reference to the you know initial had within a short term rental like within one. Loud noises parties whatever does and you're with. Six players in what what city you calling I was formally appointed record okay there I can always ordinance the city there there there was an ordinance ordinance okay so Sir Bryant with this prevent the city from enforcing an ordinance on the books for the city from you know finding individuals or. I think I think it's it's not necessarily that there are tools related to. Nuisances at because I think if you talk about tall grass or you talk about noise or you talk about you know large parties those types of things you can call the police out and that's great we're not talking necessarily about regulating the good actors the ones the folks that they do have local properly represent as we do the people that are abiding by large are the majority it's it's the issue with the folks that are are bad actors that don't pay attention of the the facilities they don't have somebody local that's their to respond and it's nuisance after nuisance after nuisance after nuisance after nuisance after nuisance it's like it would be nice to have some ability to prohibit somebody that is a true bad actors they may not be going through Airbnb that may not be going through the RPO may just set it up to to to do certain things and so that that is the thing that I'm I'm I think most trouble about with okay. Thank you Sir right question. Question me to clarify that the chairs question is is this bill does it prohibit short term rentals to be an event centre Act outside of the function of a dwelling or residence so. If if somebody wants to say that they're renting the home under short term platform but they're using it as a party House is not considered a short term rental my question my question kind of along your lines is is what. You know Conway being a a college town cities colleges is what do you do with with long term rentals or private private. owner occupied rentals that just all they do is perpetually throw parties. And those of again we have to rely on nuisance which is effectively chasing chasing ghosts. Yeah so so with with this bill we allow cities to. Make sure that if they want to the contract the owner to be able to can to perpetually finds them towards it because prohibitive for them to continue to allow nuisances in their properties with that with that help alleviate some of the issues that you're. It's not necessarily tracking the owner so much as it is having a requirement of a local property representative that when the when the police get called that there's somebody there that that manages the property that can can deal with the issue and that's the main thing is so the the section of the bill that site identified that as an owner's representative. The city's having having the ability to require that would that alleviate problems that that's in the bill as far as the party of permits could be. You are the within I think it's the thing that's key it's not necessarily having having the information it's that they're designated to have that responsibility to respond so that they are there that they are are required to answer calls that that that responsibility that is that is the I think one of the key things. Our thanks have to Ricky hereafter question. So what in this bill would prohibit you from doing that short term rentals as long as you do it to long term rentals also wouldn't be a good idea for long term rentals to have somebody that can respond other properties also. I think that that that would I think there probably be a lot of people that would say that that's probably some level of overreach pretty would be pretty fair I mean if you want to do short term rentals. I mean you don't have long term rentals on by people out of state. You do yeah they probably have issues to. Thank you thank you senator all right members are your questions. I've seen a Mr thank you for being here. All right so. It's going to be Mr Stephen news speaking. For. The committee about the morning to tune up minutes of the perfect I see my name's the name of so I actually live in Saint Louis but only family home in the city of Norfork so with the C. Norfork has allowed short term rentals within the city limits however where and when the excluded zones were or not allowed to write because of that is is put a hardship on us taking over the house so we brought up the city council many times and not just us it's been a pretty significant group behind us that from the city that's also interested in renting a property but because we're in this very specific section of the city were excluded from doing so so that's grown that's gone to more and we just had issues with it and they contain not listen mainly because it's been the city the same people on the Council since the start so nothing's really changed so to speak more from the personal side of it because a lot of these people are saying that there's they're nervous about the the big companies the deep pockets coming and taking these properties on this this poem is been in the family for over twenty years we took over the family after grandparents passed and so we just financially cannot support or young family three kids one on the way but we don't get the give up the family home the restrictions that been put on us or not force inside the house because we cannot make passive income to put towards the house so I I know there's concerns with with the companies but everyone's talking about about the big dogs but forget about the little people are actually living in the cities yes we don't live there or there every month we have people in their doing the best we can just to keep the family home so the restrictions are allow you can look across the river And see homes that are allowed to short term rental but here we are still throw away that and we're not allowed to so the exclusion is forces out of our homes people want the good neighbors people want the people that are you know call up see how each other's doing that is us we are the small town neighbors that are trying to be there for everybody but the restriction of the process. Still allowed to stride put different perspective of this isn't just about the big companies it's also about us actually on the property Stephen thank you very much thank you numbers are questions from the committee. Thank you that's the thank you for being here thank you Sir. All right. Thank you for and so most people going to the for Mister Paul Calvert all. Yeah Paul justice the council by the testimony that's been made today so you know from the Committee has a ladder my last one nope so that somebody might as well cover I have had some experience with cities. And I'm a landlord by trade and I've had some trouble with tenants from time to time and my experience is that the city's don't really want to enforce the laws against the tenants I don't know if it's from leasing this for what it is but instead they've actually filed false charges against me instead it's it's totally illegal what they're doing but my experience is the specialist it Conway is they have contempt for property owners rights especially landlords I I think they need to have state government to rein them in because out of control they are they are acting as if it's their property instead of ours and It's it's abusive and and they need to be reined in because the the they act as if they on the property and that we're somehow their tenants and they have police power over us so it's a problem but I appreciate your bringing this bill VOL thank you all right members or any questions from the committee. C. nine thank you Miss cover being here. A lorry Frank. Frank will come up and introduce yourselves and tell us here within the be recognized proceed. Good after morning my name is Laurie Frank I'm. Citizen and S. T. R. owner in Bellavista Arkansas In twenty nineteen we bought the home at the time I was stationed in San Antonio Texas I retired from the navy and I moved to Bella Vista we do own an S. T. R. and we also own a couple of long term rentals I don't really have a lot of new things to say other than the fact that I believe that the Bellavista area has composed onerous regulations and inspections against us one of the inspections that they called for in this new regulation was septic they put no criteria for the septic inspection and now one of the largest septic and in the area have refused to handle the inspection because there was no written criteria given when they passed the regulation. so now that's. Holding down the number of competitors and therefore driving up the prices for us to even find someone that can do an inspection so I hadn't heard that today's mentioned and it is onerous and there is a great overreach here and that's all I have to say that for today you're correct I believe that was mentioned today thank you all right would you mind as if any members have any questions. Our that will speak with you to questions from there Stubblefield problem okay I have a question on this testimony that it seems like this this problem is exclusive to northwest Arkansas. That we haven't had anybody. Southeast Arkansas. I'm I'm I'm kinda new to this is this is is Conway is a fast growing area of the state for a lot of people are coming to that part of the state one fastest growing areas in the United States as a matter of fact yes Sir beautiful part of state. So. Is is there something. Is there something that is going on within the city government that are noticing this putting the regulations on short term rentals. I think it's new to the area of short term rentals as far as the regulations I think they've heard a lot of anecdotal C. from the community who have complained and I think we also have rallied around one of our leaders who spoke earlier and she has been able to kind of pull us all together and fight this as one instead of a bunch of entities I I understand Conway is here I'm sure the people in hot springs probably wanted to be here so I don't know that I answered your question other than from a north west Arkansas Conway we it is another self explicit because it is a college town a lot of colleges there which you've got a whole different set of circumstances involving the demographics but. Northwest Arkansas is unique yes because it is it is a fast fashion growing area with some of the largest corporations in the world they're located there so I I just wonder if there's some kind of connection between the. The city's not wanting to back you know stand by the short term rentals. Putting more burdensome regulations. I don't have a good answer for you I understand I understand I would have an answer for the. This is a homeowner I wish across the board if they were that worried about septic systems make the regulations for everyone because the inspection for a septic is only as good as the inspector looking at it that day that meant who's to say my neighbor is going to explode his septic and run it into the lake that we left behind one of the bill of rights is not exclusive to a certain. Group of people it's for everyone yes so thank you ma'am all right thank you Mr Prosser hammer Joe question I got a short one General Motors because you preference bill this is somebody else's referencing Senator Rapert can addresses closing comments if you want to you know do they inspect the long term rental properties to the same level of expectation accountability that they inspect your short term rental or do you know if you don't know I know because I own both okay they do not the S. T. R. regulation is relatively new like it just went through in February in response to all be permitted by June what and one of the problems will be the septic inspection but these regulations are only for short short term. printers but not for long term no Sir thank you. Thank you Mr. Mr Ryan are you. Right to send. VOL four hours that you have some experience with subjects and so if you could not you know maybe should a lot on this for members of the committee that might not be so fluent with what goes into a septic inspection. But yes Sir I'm Terry Paul with the the environment health branch chief of department health and yes There's the second system to create a unique problem and obviously the the Airbnb enter street as a whole it seems to be focused around the lakes and some of those homes and then you know other areas within the national I've heard as far septic systems go and I shared my concern with the senator Bryant and the the septic systems itself can create a problem but since everyone's mention Bellavista just just keep in mind there's some unique things about Bellavista as they say they stated earlier these lots are pretty small there houses have been there for years and Bella Vista as a whole is is obviously big spending but most of the system are the most the city of Bellavista is served by what we call septic systems are on site wastewater systems and just to correct of a few things that were said earlier and the second systems are designed for an average daily years they they have a lot of extra capacity building in but my concern and our concern would be if the situation arose where typically you see advertisements for a home that that may be for a fifteen or so occupants they they don't decides on bedrooms and we are rule sizes septic systems on veterans meeting two people per bedroom in a house of typical three bedroom house that would mean six people it doesn't mean it can't handle more it doesn't mean you can't handle a little less but what we don't want to happen and then what my concern is is it fifteen people again live in the home and try to use it for a week it's not going to work and that's the issue again either pro or con but at the same time I think senator Stubblefield mentioned it his home you know it it's it's got a septic system I'm sure and it's the. It's going to be adequate for certain amount of years but if everybody comes home on the weekends is it is it going to be adequate for that increase time of use and that's the the only concern that I had about it and but. That's that's it and I I have talked to some of these communities and and when it comes to against septic systems it's permitted it's on the books and I notion I think Bellavista did put something about inspections I don't recall that there was a lot of information there at all either but I don't know what that meant so. All right Sir Petty this Sullivan so I I live in the middle of a Van Buren and I have a septic system. Staff several acres I have four bedrooms and had it passed a perk and I'm wondering if maybe I have concerns and in my situation because periodically we have twenty five or thirty use on the church from the church on the weekend and and we've not had any issues with that but isn't it isn't it all depended upon not only the Department the design in in terms of the the use. Yes it's it's all it is considered a we would look at the soul now and we're we're trying to estimate what the average UCS and you know any one particular day may not cause an issue but I I've ran into homes I think somebody mentioned it a few minutes ago I have seen homes on septic system with twenty eight people live in a that doesn't work and if there is a chance on any given day that okay I do agree there was a lady mention while ago some of these things are only as good as when you're looking at a and and that's one thing we used to do many many years ago with with inspections just to go out and realtors with the health department go out look to see if there's obvious malfunction that we use for that many many black thirty years ago but yes if you know any one of the at we've got some extra built in there but you don't want to abuse the system either so it doesn't things are expensive northwest Arkansas fifteen twenty thousand dollars not unusual for septic system. They're selling. From serving their other. Locations with similar Land usage and around the nation that have a similar situation there so and also or dealing with the same issues so do we have any data that says actually says they're not working when you do this in other areas of the country I don't know of any particularly you know real quickly most if you look at the VA design manuals the way we we design systems is pretty consistent with other states all of us put in a fudge factor a septic system is is your one shot at that home system working as opposed to the city or I mean it's as opposed to a municipal system that can take. More water and I've certainly check that was sent abroad. For F. one from this I'm so what I'm saying is there a happy at the development similar to Bella Bellavista need national what that have these sorts of short term rentals and and We're just replicating what they're doing so I understand your concern but I'm. I don't want the bill to move forward it's going to be the very real bad impact negative impact but we we should have seen that somewhere else nationally that's true. Well I'm not aware of it because I have a look into the challenges are thank you thank you Senator Solomon Cervidae your question. What is the health department do when a septic this system fails we we cite the owner of a usually give them a thirty day notice to correct the situation so does it matter if the rental is a long term or short term does not matter what what is usually the remedy in that instance well what we do we try to do the person I always try to do the the least expensive repair first and obviously if it was something you could track back to you know again fifteen twenty people in the home that's easy enough because it will resolve itself but what happens next time that's something we don't. We're not situated direct on a very short period of time if that makes sense you're not you're not first responders to the septic system well we can but we're going to be called in you know so we try to respond to see what's going on and see what the issue is but I've I've responded to situations where the the the latest on the laundry was there that day and five or six low the con of five or six loads of clothes to the wash a machine can cause issues salute. So have we seen since since STR's apparently cause septic systems to fail in large numbers have you seen a dramatic increase in those failures by hand or have we seen a dramatic decrease in STR's going up because of that added expensive systems septic system but that that would have to be something Bellavista or someone to say not me I don't have that information okay thank you senator Brian if requested. This community's at lake Louise bill this exists that's example that were designed in with properties and sixties thirty acre lots which for my and that's that's rare today usually need more land mass to. Design a system should they not impose like some sort of rule across the board to make sure that all community members are. Our address for safety concerns. I'm trying to think how to answer that I will say this would would you would you say safety concerns I. Speaking to our permits are permits are the same across the board whether they're for you know the the House right outside the city limits or the one five miles over in Bellavista Bellavista least one of the last ones I can remember was approved in nineteen sixty five it was approved in a situation where there's a lot of requirements that set backs etcetera and I've talked to them recently about that but when you put the requirements of the septic system for home on a third of an acre any of you this builder for now on a third of an acre and you can't get what we call an alternate side you can have plan B. basically so all your your your eggs are in that one basket and that's the concern for some of those committees especially those around the lakes etcetera that are high use and I'm hi use waters of body and or. March supplied mainly by septic systems and a lot of those systems we have treatment plants on because they're close to the water but again treatment septic systems are all subject obviously as you guys are set to fail so. All right Sir so push of questions I discuss this simple question. Does all water house including washing clothes therefore does that all have to go to the state system yes Sir it's all concerned because it's a yes Sir it's all considered waste water if someone's called graywater someone's called Blackwater on average and again I'm saying only average not anywhere in particular but each one of us uses about eighty gallons of water a day and you can multiply that out over a month and you'll see about what your household use per person our engineering division when they look at. a whole lot of area they look at an average of two and a half people for home and because we know not ever homes always occupied that some of that such factor I told told several will go but but yes I think I answer your question. Our. Thank you for your does boxer Petty. I'm sorry one more one more question Sir so when we do have a failure going back to to the question earlier what does that look like in a in a center in an area like Bellavista I mean I I get the feeling that we're talking about is you know the Beverly hillbillies Jett Clampett black bills spewing up from the ground but it really it doesn't come out fast and it doesn't go very far faster does it it can it depends on depends on who you talk to sometimes but a failure generally is when the F. one starts these now the ground and it's always a go go down hill the only place I've seen the Jed Clampett is when there was a pop involved in and yeah symbols for a just like that on the ground it can and I'm in Arkansas were fairly wet environment during the winter months we have what we call is a high seasonal water table or higher season water table so you're you're you're fine the climate you're fighting how much F. what's coming out of the house in in again proximity to of well as failures a failure in my words at your house my house for. All right thank surviving part thank you Sir. All right members we got we got one second left on the four but we got one more person is you know here to speak and you know as a courtesy they been waiting for a while so in that case without objection to give them to you two additional minutes a committee that the lambs I don't know about the last name okay really is David here. Okay. I don't know if they don't want to get your last name right I couldn't. Okay. Bill thirty yourselves and your whether if you just hear for yourself as a short term rental barter short terminal or yes somebody David lamb this always stays the land in business partner so earlier Laurie reference the person that is coordinate a lot is going on with this Arkansas and that is the Airbnb community leader Stacey so so apparently saying the junior partner in our effort she if you want a single point of contact this lady is the one you want to speak with yes she has done more research and more Trying to communicate with the city of bill this in particular since we became involved that last June than any single person that I've come in contact with so and that's part of the problem with what we've seen the in dealing with the city council we Having S. see our ours and not as yours get together and try to work out our differences. You know which is what. We think should happen yeah we just we think we should have open dialogue amongst the city councilman and as short on us your owners. But we haven't gotten that and that's you know. Thankfully we're here today to speak with you and unfortunately we have to be here to speak to you because we fall on deaf ears and local Road speak with about the ordinances so up north is Arkansas is different. As reference early in Bentonville we do have a high turnover in general in real estate every two to three years people coming through for home offices of both Tyson JB hunt Walmart so they're changing over the home ownership every two to three years as it is and in many of you come from corporate the corporate world you understand that you know you understand that if you have time in the home office in order to continue your promotions Mislintat thirty seconds so so we see that the only thing that we've ever us or is that have open and honest dialogue about what's going on in the US you are in an honest your areas so that we can we can come to a conclusion and come to something that works for everyone and respect property rights because a short term rental for the long term role is no different than your residence so we just feel strongly that that this ordinance be of Or approved and the voted in so that we can protect the property rights. Thanks lamp number certain questions for. The land. Thanks any questions thank you for being here Sir. All right so that concludes our list of folks are signed up to speak for against senator Bryant going back to the in the table and before the before going to close your bill numbers on apologize you know and and all my eagerness to get to the educational part of how we you know have our septic systems we skipped over actually voted for house bill thirteen eighteen Senator Bryant we adopt the amendment but we did not you know we did not vote on the bill. And I just wanna think Senator Rice Mustang co chair of version one his kind gesture to point that out to me others reason is my vice chair so Senator Rice thank you so when you close for this doctor of though the vote when a circle back to house bill thirteen eighteen. Thank you Mr chair I I love this process it brings us together to try to to try to solve issues that basis I took some some notes excellent questions excellent points brought from the our citizens and our stakeholders. somebody has a question about you know this direct competition from hotels and not her this morning that our hospitality associations and remain neutral on the bill I don't I don't think as long as the plane feels equal in taxation is is up held there there's really no notice no disagreement between them it's it's two different products that are being offered to our citizens. As far as a comment made regarding that if citizens want to vote to exclude them within a community I've not heard of this of the city wanting or being able to vote away a constitutional right I don't think they'd want to do that but we this bill doesn't limits platted subdivisions or other other areas that are. Set within the city boundaries to organizing a property owners association or homeowners association for if nothing else than to organize to exclude short term rental within that community that's that's what the. The availability of that of that. Process is. That tourism I think Senator Stubblefield you said is this enormous Arkansas a problem I think there's several communities and several more on the way I think even a community here and Pulaski counties because the baby that this week I believe tonight I think we we need to take a stand to say we need to we need to set the set straight the record of where or property rights or which I believe are a Senator Stubblefield said this is I have the right to use my property is always and use it for the right use. and the city has ability to the police over the nuisance issues that are afforded every homeowner regardless if if owner occupied long term or short term. I believe that's where we need to be. So. I think I think another comment made this is the amount of taxation that short term rentals generate I think I was told over a hundred million dollars generated in hot springs community Mister Senator thank you can confirm that or not but a lot of taxation under your a quorum court is generated by by this by this property right. So in closing I I appreciate the committee's willingness to hear both sides of the issue and for that I appreciate a good vote motion do pass all right members will get a motion to pass by Senator Rapert second by Senator McGee all in favor please say aye opposed resolutions enter your bill passes all right now we're gonna circle back to thirteen eighteen number of votes cast hold it down Committee still got some work to do so we'll circle back to thirteen eighteen Senator Bryant and you're recognized to present the bill as amended. As amended I don't have it over there but from from what I recall this bill the city's whenever they have the purchase of the over thirties one since their party would you give a copy the. Defined. I don't want one line down there. I think I could have done it by memory but. We should share. Yes we've already voted the document but not on the bill so this this bill as amended is for cities when they do procurement of the materials and items over thirty five thousand dollars before they headed when they take bids and they and seal them they had to take the lowest bid this will allow them to factor in the cost overall costs long term cost of that bid is that having to buy the the cheapest one I could buy the one that's maybe costs a little bit more about has better long term cost benefit to the to the municipality so with that I move for its Thanks approval as amended as all right members got a motion and a second Senator Ricky all in favor please say aye. Post graduation senate bill passes all right is there anybody else the bill run for the committee. If anybody. Okay Sir do you wanna go down there and what will be in the running. Thirteen twenty seven. I see Mr Wharton read more about that are taxed. All right members as house bill thirteen twenty seven Senator McKee filter self in Gastonia be recognized perceive your bill. Thank you Mr chairman members of medication station six got the honorable sheriff Rodney right from selling County here with me and this is a bill to clean up I guess just an oversight from a couple years ago that allowed shares apartments to dispose of seized or confiscated firearms for juveniles. Yeah but not for adults and and so this clarifies that they can dispose of those firearms in the same manner that they do for juvenile offenders and if running was saying thank. All right of center city to the cleanup bill it would make things go a lot more efficient for sheriff's office and that will be able to use another method of disposal of firearms that would be trading them in for for the purchase of equipment. Bulletproof fast uniforms things like that. So with that if you have any questions regarding members or any questions from the committee. Sturch seen nine digit by Senator speak for against this year we got you down already down there see nobody else Senator here recognized close your bill closed create good vote okay. Member that a motion and a motion by Senator Hammer do pass got a second from center Petty all in favor say aye. Most congratulations senator bill passes. All right members say no further discomfort Committee we are adjourned.