Public Transportation- House

There's testimony list over here please sign up on the testimony this. In a. I would also ask you to we will try to get ever get everyone opportunity to speak if the testimony gets repetitive and you just want to get it back to stay short statement that would be fine also if you will limit your time someone else you can do that let's not get argumentative matches be professional who can I move about the beating. Okay represent eleven. Here to run the house bill fifteen sixty three representatives you're recognized you can identify yourself call any witnesses you wish to do so and then you may begin. State representative Brian Evans from house district sixty eight. Thank you Mr chairman and committee members. I'm aware just like with any other contested bill that you receive many phone calls and emails and many text messages regarding house bill fifteen sixty three. And if for any of you that has been an inconvenience I do apologize. However this bill is necessary. I also understand that many of you may have never been directly. Or personally impacted by the gray area. I within the old statute about this bill. That is why this bill is necessary. If you refer back to the original statutes twenty seven fifty twelve oh two in twenty seven fifty twelve oh eight that are listed in the bill. I believe you can see a clear picture of why this issue has become very great. A quite frankly has been abused at the expense of shippers receivers. Distribution companies. And ultimately consumers all of which are your constituents. To me it's clear. The twelve oh two speaks of unattended and abandoned vehicles it's clearly stated in the bill. Today we're not talking about those. We're talking about commercial tractors and trailers engaged in interstate commerce. That have become immovable due to break down or rec not always the fault of the driver. Neither of which of those applies to unattended or abandoned vehicles. As a matter of fact. In January of two thousand four. Towing and recovery company submitted a letter to then former Attorney General might be be former governor Mike Beebe requesting the definition of unattended and abandoned vehicles in relation to this statute. Your baby made a very clear statement on his official ruling as the Attorney General of what was meant by unattended and abandoned vehicles. That did not apply to what we're talking about today. In reference to twelve oh eight it's clear to me that the original intent was to brought into vague because the General Assembly some of our former colleagues had to come back in two thousand and seven. With legislation from then attorney from the then Attorney General who happens to be in this room today he wrote the language had the bill ran to create a clear exemption for items that could not be held under the possessory lien those items included you've probably seen those in the bill personal legal documents medications child restraint seating wallets purses contents there prescription eyeglasses prosthetics cell phones photographs and books and I ask the question. Why was it necessary in two thousand seven to draft legislation to exempt those items to not be included in the possessory lien. First because I believe there was a necessitated need for the person that only to those things to get their things and not be kept hostage because that was not the intent of the law. Secondly and maybe most importantly because the driver of the owner of the vehicle only those items and they needed those to go about their lives and continue conducting their business. So who is the cargo owner may give you a legal definition. By law the owner of any goods shall be the constant the. That's the receiver. The shipper as the person that loads the truck. Or other respective agent which is defined as a potential freight forwarder. But the law clearly says but shall not include the operator. Operator of the truck the trucking company by law is not the cargo owner what governs the cargo in transit that's called the bill of lading. A bill of lading is a document that accompanies freight that states that the agreement between the shipper and the carrier governs their relationship when goods are being transported the bill of lading has details on it such as the commodity the wait the pieces in other words twenty six pallets forty two thousand pounds of bottled water. That's what comprises of the shipment and it gives specific delivery instructions such as the address of where the truck is to deliver the goods and most importantly it gives title of ownership of that shipment to the receiving party specified on the document. How does it do that. It's by the deck designation of the term FOB which means free on board it's a legal document is regulated by the US department transportation FOB states that once a shipment is designated F. O. B. at the seller's location when the truck is loaded. Then as soon as that shipment of goods leaves that sellers facility. The seller records are complete and the buyer not the trucking company not the driver the buyer now owns the product in route to its warehouse is responsible for delivery charges. So what is this bill do two things one it defines cargo as goods and materials being transported by a motor carrier to include pallets packaging and securement systems that might be tangent to the load and repurposed for transloading. Secondly it adds cargo to the list of items that are currently exempt from the possessory lien afforded to tow and storage operators because the motor carrier does not own the cargo. What is this bill not due. It's not a referendum it's not a referendum or anything regulatory on tow operators for their fees or their fee structure we're not regulating their fees are the services that they provide. Quite frankly they do that themselves. Secondly it's not intended to relieve any company from paying for services provided in the debt that they for those services. As a matter of public policy cargo in transit should not be a party to the transaction between the total operator in the transportation provider. This over reach the statute is a practice that negatively impacts the supply chain all consumers all shippers and receivers. Who benefits from the policy change. The entire economy of Arkansas. In Arkansas we make things we grow things we buy things we sell things and we transport things. Arkansas business reported this morning that per capita. Arkansas is number one in the nation trucking companies. That's a lot of jobs. It's a lot of goods and services moving across our federal highways. And when shipments are held hostage as cargo every sector of the supply chain from the grower the manufacturer wholesaler the retailer. Ultimately the consumer or negatively impacted. My final comments thank you Mr chair for your latency before taking questions. I imagine that each of you have been told that we blind side of the towing companies with this building would not consider amendment. The truth of the matter is is that I set up a meeting and invited the towing and recovery board along with the Arkansas trucking association their legal counsel some other board members and my director of operations. That meeting was held at the Arkansas trucking associations office in December two thousand twenty two. At that meeting. It multiple times during that meeting I was clear. That I was there in good faith to help them and to create a collaborative effort between all at the table to assist them with any issues they have in their business models the calls them to hold loads of cargo hostage and ultimately sell that cargo they don't own. Quite simply I ask for a solution. They offered no solution. A few days later I spoke on the phone with one other board members I believe he's here in attendance today and I expect that he will be here to testify on behalf of their board. And again I offered to help them a solution I told him we needed to work together we need to come up with a solution. Try to fix this problem to protect consumers and businesses state of Arkansas. It was no solution offered. Finally yesterday afternoon at the beckoning efforts of one of their lobbyist. I received an amendment proposal. As I read the amendment. And I read the four or five presented solutions that were all tied together they were all predicated to the two parties agreeing that all charges are reasonable. I don't think that's realistic. When you look at many of these bills that you. Our our presented to these transportation companies I find it hard to accept that those two parties could agree that those were reasonable. And what that does is that throws us back into the process of adjudication. What that means is that transportation company has to a petition to go before a judge. Has to plead their case has to get the judge to rule in their favor to get that cargo release and on down the road. That process can take as much as thirty forty five sixty days therefore the cargo is still excessively delayed from the customer who owns that cargo and eventually the entire supply chain. I did not find that amendment. The ninth hour on the afternoon before this bill was ran to be realistic I found that to be more of a maneuver to try to delay this process. Mr chairman ready for any questions. Okay committee were. Right of questions representative spring you're recognized for a question. Good morning thank you Mr chair representative eleven I will appreciate you and your concern that were handled dealing with here today but I think you briefly mention the fact that you all did try to come up with the resolution and that was going to be my question you kind of hit on that but is there not some way because I've received phone calls from both sides of this issue and so to me there needs to be some type of equity between the two parties given the situation so is there not any way that you all could possibly get together and and come up with the of of resolve to this so that both sides are fairly treated I guess that's my real concern because we can be here all afternoon in which we're going to show a whole lot why and then it should be this way or that way so is there any way that you all can get together and come up with an acceptable risk resolution of this so the equitable resolution represent Springer because what the real issues tied back to this is insurance that's federally mandated there's not a trucking company on the interstate highways today that is operating under knees and without the minimum required insurance at the federal government says they have to have that's a federal issue it's not a state issue is not anything that we can as a state mandated because we're talking about trucking companies that are based all of the units and states that may be moving through our state. And so this is not a new issue. The towing recovery folks they understand that they know that but I've never been approached by anyone and I have several very reputable telling companies in my district. They've never came to me and said we've got a problem would you please help us with this insurance issue. I have an opinion of that. Following that okay I think that that this is an issue that they know that we can't fix on the state level that's what is this never been brought to us from the state and yet they've never been able to lobby that effectively on the federal level. Follows the chair go ahead so I I hear what you're saying with respect to the insurance however it seems like to me that the companies that are hiring these persons can confirm and verify that information prior to them of a taking on those particular of people that are hobbies holding the cargo so that to me seems like something that the person that's hiring the individual to do that should do and I was in love committee meeting on yesterday we were talking about persons doing things illegally and that sort of thing and and there was much discussion about that so to me it seems like it's something that the person that's hiring the individual these confirm confirm and check out to make sure that they actually have the necessary insurance in order to cover this because when I first heard about that that was my response will insurance will cover this because if you have a claim there's trip insurance there's liability insurance they cover all of these things they even cover what you're talking about that you're afraid it's going to be held up to thirty days all you have to do is make a claim to your insurance company you as an individual and let them know that Hey I have a situation here and they will advanced you payments so that you will not incur the sort of thing so to me is an issue regarding insurance and so whether or not you as the company have the proper insurance as well so in not only you as the company but the individual that's doing all and so that that was my first response to be sold you know I'm kind of. I don't know I'm just confused about this whole situation because it seems like to me is something that can be resolved and then here's the other thing to we talk about the towing Board and you know what what what is their position with respect to this this seems like something that they should try and resolve between the parties as well yes ma'am I would agree to that and and I respectfully I think I understand your question there so. I would think with almost without any exception your manufacturers in your shippers today required by contract the transportation company has to sign those contracts are very very legal up in very specific to the amount of insurance that they require a trucking company to have in order to move their freight so there's not going to be a company this is going to show up to pick up a load that has no insurance that manufacturing company either themselves are going to have a direct contract with the transportation company that requires them to have certain levels of insurance coverage and if there is a third party involved if there's a freight forwarder involved if there's a a three PL involved in that in that contract is going to be between is going to be between the manufacturing company and a third party in the third party is going to have to sign by contract that they will not utilize any type of equipment that do not meet the minimum standards of that manufacturing company so the insurance is in place but as we all know there's some insurance companies out there they're just better than others please understand that when you're talking about transportation insurance it gets really muddy because in any given shipment you could have as many as four different insurance companies involved in the transaction you could have an insurance so let's say hypothetically that I own the truck. And that's all I owns the truck I'm gonna have to provide the minimum federal insurance requirements on that truck. But I may not own the trailer. I'm a rent that trailer from someone like utility or Transamerica. I may. Least that trailer through the company that I'm calling for. It may be a drop and hook situation where the shipper is actually supplying the trailers and all I'm supplying is the power. So the trailer may be completely insured by someone totally different. Then you've got the cargo insurance that most often is a different insurance provider as well the under writer of that is not the same company this writing insurance for the truck or the trailer and then you have the liability insurance and quite often that is another provider that specializes in liability and so for a trucking company you just simply have one policy that that says we're going to do it all that's in transportation anymore that's just not realistic. Thank you. And represent hawking recognized for a question thank you Mr chairman representative Evans thank you for bringing this as you stated this is been a hot topic in and I've I believe or not I've had of just this week ten constituent reach out both warn against this and so I got a couple questions you we we talk about the process from the time that they're hooked up and whether it be a a big time accident or just a tow back to the to the yard does the tow company. Is there a time line as far as how long they can hold the the the the property whether be the truck the trailer and cargo or is it just until the insurance company gets everything worked out. So again I believe that the toad towing company somewhat regulate themselves on what they're. Level of standards and and and operating values are I think that's not patrolled I think ultimately what the towing and recovery companies want obviously is to settle that claim as fast as possible they want the insurance company to be able to settle this as fast as they can but. In the real world today we know that insurance settlements can drag on for quite some time and it's just we're we're just in a very legalese world these things don't happen fast we're not trying to take that away we're in this bill that does not take away again as I stated in my opening comments. The relationship between the trucking company the tow operator to settle that debt through that insurance process. The purpose of this bill is to get the cargo that is not owned by the par a party of that transaction back on the road into the supply chain ultimately to the consumer follow up. So I guess that you you someone answer my second question was that the so the cargo the the tow company wants that cargo was gone if you if this bill were to pass the cargo was gone the total company would still have the truck and trailer on site if if the they didn't pay the the if the insurance company didn't pay they would still have possession of the truck and trailer all we're saying is get the cargo out let it stand in roots let the consumers you know not be held hostage it at this point and we just keep the process rolling craze that is correct they still have the insurance coverage it's going to provide them either payment for their invoice or some type of celebs settlement that they can arbitrate between themselves and they still have a truck and trailer thank you. Any other questions read. Represent maker you're recognized question thank you Mr chairman I think represent eleven for bringing this and for walking us through the chain of command of how this works I think everybody here is ultimately most sympathetic to the consumer and it is very helpful to hear that the receiving consumer is the and owner of these products and I do have a few questions just in my engagement with tow truck companies When it comes to these liens they place on cargoes are there similar liens placed on a cargo by the truck drivers or the free carriers themselves no that's absolutely completely illegal so let's just say hypothetically that on trucking company and I'm doing business with acre manufacturing I'm contracted with you I'm pulling loads for you a federal federal government says that if you get behind in paying me I can't come pick up a shipment and take that back to my yard and set on it I believe that that comes with a very hefty fine this mandated by federal law I if I take except that shipment from you I'm to move it on down the road and get it delivered everybody has business risk on any given day I may have in my business I may have a of a seven figure accounts receivable I don't have a possessory lien I'm taking people on good faith I'm doing due diligence on credit I'm doing my checks to make sure that that person is going to pay me or that we're going to be able to reach a settlement but I don't have a way nor do most any consumer to take something hostage or as collateral it back into my business and say unless this million less you payment installments follow up hello I appreciate that and equal sympathies out of the pharmacy business what's something leaves our store we don't really have the ability to Hold anyone hostage in that situation either there's been some debate on the pricing of how these bills that are in dispute can you speak a little bit too it's my understanding that the state police hold a list of tow truck companies that have agreed to set prices before hand and are penalized by the tow trucking Board if they do any sort of price gouging. So I find I understand I think it's kind of two part question so let me try this the first four so yes the Arkansas state police kind of overseas what I'm gonna call the dispatch of the towing companies so let's say that that I'm moving down interstate forty and I have a blow out and I had a I hit a guard rail and now I'm I'm I mean not like you drug can't move a couple things happen as the owner of the truck I have the first priority of getting with my dispatcher if I'm an owner operator I can get on Google I can find the Lok Lok most local tow company I can call them and say Hey here's where I'm at is what's going on can you can can you can give me a tow that's called consent they are consenting to come and go into that business agreement with me to move my vehicle safely off the highways. But on the back to their to their towing and and storage facility. The other way though when I think what happens in most cases is what's called a non consent towing companies place themselves voluntarily on a rotating list that's called non consent so that when that state trooper rolls up. He assesses the safety situation he will ask the the driver or whoever's in charge of that truck Hey have you called somebody somebody on the way no we haven't okay we're going to get this thing taken care of for you ASP will contact their dispatch center control they will go to the next one on the list that's on that non consent that the towing companies voluntarily put themselves on in their call to come out to perform the service they don't have to do that no they don't have to be on the non consent but I think they typically find that especially in these cases to be a little bit more a little bit more lucrative if you might say and then the second part your question I believe was regarding the right to set the fees so certainly again their their their fee schedules are not regulated by by us we we we can't tell towing companies just like we don't tell you what you can charge for Something that you're selling out of your pharmacy we can't tell them what they charge for their fees I believe that is self controlled I will say that in the state of Arkansas the towing and recovery board they have a reputation of being very fair and ethical and in those situations where there is a contested invoice they take that may convene their board together they go through that they look at it is what they deem to be reasonable and then if however long that takes to settle that out you know there there is an agreement but in the process of however long that takes that cargo is still sitting that's the problem. Final follow Mr chairman so in in the pricing scenarios these are my understanding was that it was simply that there were what we call our business maximum allowable costs that they were just already signed for ex number of trucks ACT number of hours X. number of wait moved Is that not the case are they is it still kind of ambiguous on what those costs are or are those prices set and to the tow truck companies the truckers and state police all know what those values I think there probably is some type of set maximum allowable values per line item on the invoice but I don't see that that's really applicable to moving the cargo in again unless the other party in that transaction which is the the transportation company who has no idea in quite often has no say in who that contract is being executed by if they're on that not non con non consent list that the trucking company didn't decide that they were going to do business with a car towing it's just to the state police on that on the rotating list who has been vetted call to come out and take care of that issue and so there is no pre negotiations there is no Hey what are you going to charge me it's just up to took to what's been agreed upon on the backside without the other parties agreement or input to that and then that's where the the discretion is of what's reasonable what you're not what I may find is reasonable may not be what you find is reasonable and so until all of that is is taken care of and a final invoice is generated and submitted to the insurance company only at that point within you be able to just be what you were charged and however long that process was how long the cargo was set. Thank you representative yes Shepherd you're recognized for a question. To which. Okay. Thank you Mr chair thank you representative for being here today so I have two questions in the first is the follow up from representative hall so I'm I'm I'm clear that this is about the cargo yes ma'am people want less on that truck. So my understanding or some have shared with me so far that in some instances what's on the truck may be more than a truck itself is that accurate or do you know if that could be accurate I I think that the the amount of the cargo that issue at the value of the cargo that is shipped across our interstate highways today could range anywhere from as minimal as a value maybe ten thousand dollars cargo value depending with commodity is to if it was a load of pharmaceuticals it could have a value as high as half a million dollars and in some instances more than a truck it's still. I would agree that the value of the cargo depending upon the shipment depending upon the make model year the truck condition the truck and trailer a lot of factors that go into that but it is possible that the value of the cargo could exceed the value of the truck okay in in so that's warm my actual question comes in it because I'm being told that in some instances The truckers those that have been I guess the word is subcontracted out it may be an independent trucker may not even want to come back and get the truck and so if the cargo is gone and the independent trucker doesn't want to truck how does the towing company get paid does that make sense they're gonna take that truck and trailer and they're going to sell it out at the local option used as fast as they can look. So then my next question become is there a way of us to show or determined that telling companies aren't being Hey. I don't I don't know how we would determine that okay okay and I guess I'm asking that question because I'm trying to see if if if this bill is before us because it's an on going issue word towing companies are holding others property hostage and how can we determine that. How can we determine if they are holding that cargo Austin yes it's not moving down the road okay. And if they can be shown can it be shown some way. I think you're going to hear quite a bit of testimony today from. Merchants automobile dealers VOL and subject to this you can verify that their product was held not returned to them upon request and then ultimately not back into their position okay okay thank you thank you Mr chair Gregory knows I'm giving you a little bit leave Wednesday less this press release three questions represent Tosh you're recognized for a question. Thank you thank you Mr chair representative Evans I know the conversation this morning is pretty well been centered around interstate commerce and the big trucks and car goal and and the interaction between them and and record rappers at. Of the the statute that we're talking about that currently controls that situation I just kind of want to broaden his conversation little bit Just for my own curiosity. Well I know we're talking about interstate commerce but does this statute also apply that applies to those be kind of a situations we've discussed is bored with the cargoes being held and so forth. What about regular sized vehicles like if I'm involved in an accident up. And you know I have to be taken from the scene and I may not be able to get back and check on my vehicle might be I had to have medical attention and a couple days later I'm allowed to go back up to the towing service and get what items I can. I understand I understand I heard testimony earlier that there was an attorney general's opinion that senator we're certain items that could be removed from that be ical such as medicine of your wallet and so forth but I guess what I'm curious about as an individual with a towing company under those circumstances let's say that I had jewelry not my wife Jill is in the car or I had money in the car I had a firearm in the car you know with that law would prohibit me from being able to go back and and. Thank you secure those items other than what you listed this morning how for how brawlers that law that would keep me from being able to get things out of my own personal vehicle or does that even apply here so great question representantes appreciate you asking that and so when when you look at twelve oh eight it list those items that work where they were created in that legislation in two thousand and seven it does not say your firearm. It does not say your jewelry that does say wallets or purses and the contents of such so if your if your wife's firearm in her wedding ring were in her purse then yes according to the statute they would be able to get that but her existed just a very compelling story just a couple of days ago of the young lady up in Northwest Arkansas that was working a second job cleaning offices and cleaning houses she borrowed money to set up a business and she had bought kind of a commercial carpet cleaner in a commercial vacuum and she had all those items were her cleaning business in our personal vehicle and was in a wreck up in Northwest Arkansas not of her own fault her car was not drivable her vehicle was taken in based upon the way the statute is limited to these very specific items she was not allowed to go get those items out of her car. Therefore could not continue to conduct our business and so I believe what you're asking is is that is this list of exemptions to narrow and I would say that it is I would say that just like with this lady who needed to go get her cargo to get it out of her vehicle because she owned it then she should be able to go get that in conduct her business. In the trucking scenario the truck doesn't own the cargo so the owner of the cargo which is the shipper receiver. The buyer of the warehouseman whoever that time is the owner of that cargo should be able to send another truck and get that cargo moving on down the road now we're not talking about because when you look at a lot of these these invoices for service you see a lot of time to clean up the we're not talking about loads of frozen pizzas they're scattered all over the interstate we're talking about a very narrow window of time where a shipment is not damaged it is up right it is protected it has not been exposed and the owner of that cargo contact the tower and says I need to send another truck in translocate off of our trailer that truck that was wrecked put it on another try to let's get it on down the road that's what we're talking about today. Follow follow up okay I just wanna make sure and I think you did a good job explaining that but I will I will be sure I wanted the other members of this committee to understand that and you correct me if I'm wrong on that but what the law that we're talking about today if you're talking about changing does not just deal strictly with the cargo are fixed to cargo in the Interstate Commerce type situation where there's been an accident it extends all the way out if I'm if I'm correct and if not you correct me but does it not extend all the way out to any vehicle the one of us in here would be driving getting back for to the capital or to work or wherever we might go anything we had in that vehicle that was not listed while ago could be helped by the towing company and sole what you're trying to do today with that fix there what I still be unable to get a firearm or a money or whatever else I may have been a vehicle that I need I'm just still trying to make sure if the I have that held for this. Scope of the issues that covers these type of situations I know what you would truckers in Tolka companies and I think that's been well explained and I think everybody's doing a good job explained that we'll probably hear more great destroyed I just wanna make sure that I'm understanding the scope of the authority that this law would allow for towing companies and what they would be able to hold for an individual lot myself or anyone else at a regular sized vehicle now I I may help you I hope that question has a Confucianism apologize but can you even if you attempt to answer that certainly I will so if you look at the bill on section one line twenty eight through thirty through thirty six on page one and then line one and two on page two it clearly states that cargo which is what we're talking about today means goods and materials transported by a motor carrier as defined by forty nine CFR thirty three ninety point five as it existed January first of twenty twenty three so we're clearly talking about cargo being transported by a motor carrier we're not expanding the scope of a person and in their personal vehicle that does not include that. Although I think that should be looked at as well to take care of the situation that you're referring to is your firearm requesting or. But that's not in this bill for right now thank you Mister chair I will follow up to their representative Tosh stated and make sure I understand you of representative eleven so you've testified here today saying that most of the cargo that we're talking about is intact is that my understand is not frozen people pizzas and things of that nature all of the highway is basically intact on the trail is that correct well I think that if you had a load of through grade product that was scattered all obviously but not my question is are we talking about cargo this mainly intact that use stating that that the whole company is a holding yes ma'am I did or I give you a perfect okay I'll let our colleagues. Mister chair I I just want to follow up I just want us to be on the same page and then I'll let you explain so we're talking about cargo that's intact right we're talking about cargo that is intact in all right we'll being trans loaded to another okay very good okay so everybody understands that so then I go back to my point with respect to insurance and let me just say this I'm a previous insurance adjuster and I think insurance adjusters would take exception to saying that it takes a whole lot of time because once they get that claim from their insurance company they and they know that involves goods and services that are going to be beneficial to customers across this country they get on most cases pretty fast and they know that they need to get out there and take care of them so there is an opportunity for an insurance company either yours all the other insurance what mainly the persons of the cargo this being is this being is short to get out there immediately to address the situation make contact with that of a wrecker service and then make arrangements to get that of cargo moved along that it's been my pleasure that's my understanding would you not agree that that's what takes place if you contact your insurance company in a timely fashion they will get out there immediately when they know that is goods and services that need to be transported immediately so you can make a call to your insurance company and get that taken care of immediately and we wouldn't have this so that's another thing that can take place you yourself as the person the seven the because the liver can make contact with your own insurance company and then have that claim adjudicated and then your insurance company can go against the responsible person that's responsible for it so we're here to talk about something as I said before they can be addressed with persons who have adequate insurance you're and I heard you say earlier that sometimes people don't always have it usually the guy this transporting but as a business we have to make sure and that in. Sure is can be written by agents who can write all those lines within one company if you contact the right agent they can insure you for all of those things that you just talked about thank you Mr. Would you agree with that thank you not really sure what I would be agreeing to. close please less than thank you so I will try to address what I think was your two questions there one is in no way in my trying to imply that a claims adjuster for an insurance company would try to delay this process not show up not put any intent in my personal experiences it's right the opposite the insurance provider for the transportation company does exactly what you said is the effort is there to immediately address the situation. Fortunately it's not always receptive on the other end see multiple situations where the attempt was made by the claims adjuster to get out inspect the cargo it was because put off it was delayed it was called back two days he's not here when you call back we'll get back with you that process gets delayed and even if it's just a day if it's two days three days five days or whatever you're still talking about cargo that needs to be on the road getting to a distributor getting out into the marketplace it affects our consumers and it affects our merchants that are out in in in across the country the second part is I am assuming based upon your line of questioning as you were a claims adjuster you must have dealt more so when you said that you can just pick up the phone call an agent and they can write all of those specific lines in did traditional consumer insurance I think that's probably very happy couple I know that I've I personally have one insurance provider that rights insurance for my home for my business from autos for my life insurance all those wrapped in one agent but in the commercial world it's just it's just not that way not all commercial insurance riders ride every form of insurance and again going back to what I previously stated in that shipment moving across the highway you could have multiple insurance providers because one person owns the truck another person owns the trailer there may be an specific different a different insurance provider for the cargo that that is Subscribe to some different provider. Okay seeing no other questions from committee of we're gonna going to begin to take testimony we will start at the top of the list we will rotate each time and so starting at the top list speaking against the bill Matthew Ross may if you if you will committee set up for you we with let's remember let's try to move alone I get repetitive and and You have the floor surrendered issues at the beginning yes Sir thank you and and thank you members of representatives of this committee tell my mom of this morning as I was going out that a I would do anything to embarrass or someone to do my darndest to hold that I appreciate and I feel honored Matt Matthew Ross a I am a commissioner on the Arkansas towing recovery board but I'm here today representing my business pro totaling and and recovery here in Arkansas I am again I'm humbled at the opportunity to have the I have to speak to you today I would I would maybe just lean on you just a hair to offer to myself in the people that will speak today just just a little bit of grace I know I know you've probably heard from people constituents on your phone whose passion may have converted slightly over into militants wait we in our community in our industry are not slick sophisticated political operatives I think most of us think that brinksmanship is a town between here in West Memphis on I. thirty we We a although sometimes our tactics may fall outside of the the normalization of deportment a political arena it's not done out of malice or milk miss intent. Or or a. In the T. between this great legislative body in our our industry our our heart representatives is is this is the heart of a ha of first responder. We we feel more comfortable on the road side with shoulder to shoulder with our brothers and sisters in law enforcement and fire working in what I would describe as a public private partnership. With the state of Arkansas to efficaciously clear the roadways and make sure our transportation corridors are open and free for the flow of commerce and the citizens of the State of Arkansas. We are solution seekers at heart mission driven people and I'm sorry again if we are I categorically apologized if we've we've been vigorous in our in our defense but we seek solution that's why we attended the meetings that have been referenced. And what do my mama proud and be honest. The phone calls that came after those meetings and the doors that remained closed after those meetings. I felt to us like ostracization. Did not see the language of this bill and tell it was filed. And even after it's filing we have time and time and time came to the throne to try to see compromised because we are rooted in solutions that's how we get paid that's what we do. And we have found no recourse no quarter. With those request up until the ninth hour. When we whom are not legislators have worked to try to craft a compromise and laid on the table. Today we stand here ready to find efficacious solutions to the problems that affects our industry and that create problems for the people of Arkansas whom we love we feel the weight of that responsibility upon us as we are out there on the side of the road. We feel the weight of the responsibility for the safety of our operators it's not an insignificant statistic to know that every six days a tow operator struck and injured on the side of the highway in the United States. That's our operating environment. We are first responders I think it is so important today that we understand we focus on the actual day to day implications of this legislation and perhaps then without understanding you will begin to realize why we're so passionate about this. We feel the weight of our staff we feel when we get that rotation call lot of that has been described a proprio we're not talking about a trucking company who picks up the phone says Hey my assets broke down we go every day to those we're talking about a call that comes across the state of Arkansas all hours of the day is not. Hello this is Dave from the A. S. P. we have a tractor trailer flipped over on the road we need you to come. And over and over and the men and women of this industry say yes I will come we get out of bed we must or whatever resources are necessary to clean the highway golf I got relatives that will answer my phone after nine o'clock because they think I'm gonna have I'm shoveling oranges out there on the side of the road I swear. That's the reality of this industry. We we we get bulldozers and forklifts and don't trucks and light plants in environmental cleanup we deal with oil and diesel and and and and all sorts of manner of things whatever it is in the pantheon of things that are running up and down the highway when it goes wrong we answer that call and we respond. We don't ask. Does this person have insurance. Hey could you go check on that truck and tell me the year making model that truck before I decide to go. Like the men and women we serve within in in the first responders industry we rise to the occasion no matter what. And it's after all of those duties are performed and I have spent personally six hours on the side of the road picking up boxes of cargo and hauling it back in the rain in the snow with my wife and kids at home worrying if their father will return. In the back of my mind is an owner I realize that the statistic in the State of Arkansas is that twenty to twenty five percent of those accidents. Not everything we do have the duty casualty accidents. On the state roads in Arkansas twenty five percent of those go entirely unpaid. Because of a a pandemic of under insurance an out of state. Transportation companies that I would say are not representative even of the Arkansas trucking association. We are bearing the effects of that. Twenty five percent of the time we don't get paid and and it's usually only before only until I get all of my people safely all of the millions of dollars of equipment that I have out on the road side back to my lot safely that I begin to have the the the the the space in my head to think about whether I'm going to efficaciously B. hate B. B. paid and I'll tell you sometimes my heart is just some as I've assessed what we have when we get back and there have been moments. Representatives with when I'll be honest with the I I've said thank goodness for this cargo because I know the impetus. That this cargo can bring to me being fairly compensated for the services I've rendered and for the direct cost that I haven't incurred while performing this duty for the citizens of the State of Arkansas. This is the moment in time representatives that the legislation being voted on today comes to affect in the lives of toners. Because if it passes it allows categorically. Somebody to come on to my lot to pick up the cargo into leave without ever. Paying for those services. Knowing full well that most insurance companies in these situations I'm describing to you today carry a five thousand dollar towing limit. It's a more and more commonplace practice for a writer to be placed on those that says we'll pay for things but we're only going to pay five thousand dollars for for towing. And once the car believes we're left with salvage I run the numbers I talked in Arkansas salvage company about a hundred and thirty seven thousand units out of the state of Arkansas the average cost that are price that they paid for those units out of towing companies. Sixty four hundred dollars. It's simply not the reality of the. Situation in operating environment on the ground that these assets are are worth more than what the record bill is. Every day in our industry every day people's personal properties are released voluntarily by the good hearted men women of this industry cargo is released. Voluntarily by the department this is a once a threshold of reasonable assurance of payment is processed. This may surprise you I'm not afraid liquidator I don't have a conduct contacts with with contact with big lots to liquidate forty thousand pounds of dog food it's difficult and it's a mode of last redress for us what we want is for an insurance company call and say Hey. We've got you covered we're gonna send somebody out there in a few days this the this coverage on this unit and and over and over in the state of Arkansas I can testify as as a as a a close eye regulator a member of commissioner on the board and and as a personal owner and operator of of a record company that freight is released every day under those circumstances. It is a little bit I've tried you know I will I was educated mostly in road but but but but I have tried to keep my mind around the idea. That. What what's being asked here is that a a freight brokerage company. Or a a shipper or a trucking company can come in. Assess whether that cargo is economically viable to be picked up and then make the decision whether they're going to pick that up testimony was given today ladies and gentleman about frozen pizza. And and and that testimony is spot on they are not going to come pick that up. Leave it with us and that's cargo has disposal cost storing carriage cost. Because there is accruing every day to ensure we're somehow read it inspected to get the car off the side of the road pick it up bring it back keep it safe keeping offering keep it from a tornado hitting it cheap insurance by the way for that keep it from getting stolen and then if we come in in the sense that it has reasonable economic value it's still good we'll take it there's nobody lined up to take up eight forty thousand pounds of frozen thawed out rotting chicken ice. I wasn't there. When a shipper or broker company chose to engage in free commerce with the trucking company without validating that the the that they have proper insurance and I have been told we have been told as an industry in meetings reference today that that is not a practice in the industry we were told that they do not validate insurance. I wasn't there when that decision was made I wasn't there when a trucking company may the economic decision to buy a slightly cheaper insurance policy because it only has five thousand dollar total women's and I'm I'm I'm a I'm a free market capitalist I support and will advocate for the right of those businesses to make those decisions at that moment. But what I do not think it's fair. Or just. Is that when the consequences of those decisions are made to be brought to bear. This legislation allows the burden to be shifted not to the people who signed the contracts. But to the people who responded. The people who honored the public private partnership with the. In the immortal words of my teenage daughter help me make that makes sense that. I can't. I've spoken to many of you recently and I believe in my heart that you to feel the weight. Of the of the public private partnership that you are engaged in as you participate in this legislative body. I feel the earnestness in the words of the people I've spoken to and I'm here to say I put my faith and trust personally in your ethics and your decision making process to assess the situation and to do it is just it is fair. I hope that you can empathize with our position. That's the end of my testimony I'm happy to answer any questions I can efficaciously thank you representantes read. Thank you Mr chair and and thank you for your testimony and and I agree I spent many hours those side of the highway working with wrecker drivers for many many years and we always had a great relationship and I did depend on a man and you were spot on with your testimony in regards to that and the I'm just curious about a couple things though that you said that the. You said that if the towing company receives a call from an insurance company and and I think this is what you said and the insurance company verifies to you over the phone that that. Welcome the trailer or whatever it is is covered that you're releasing the vehicle and I guess the cargo is that the is that just just just the cargo and will release everything as far as the bill is paid but but to give you maybe a scenario that would illustrate my point representative talks thank you for asking that question if if we have let's say a refrigerated unit that's running twenty four hours a day ended six sending the diesel that's keeping that running we've got to come out and fill that up all the time that's a hassle that's a liability that's an issue for us and and and if we begin cross that threshold of reasonable assurance we're gonna get paid I personally and and most record companies I know do not want that hassle we're happy to let it go okay thanks for the answer but let me finish my question I had I had a little bit one of a little bit further with the you and again. Based on your testimony you said that if you received a call from the insurance company and you correct me if I was to cargo that you would release that cargo once they verified of the day and insurance that's what I understood you to say. I guess my question is is is that your philosophy or is that edged installed in the towing companies the policy I mean is that Jones policy use that just how you feel. That is a really great question I would say that that that sentiment is representative of most of the men and women of the industry I and I and I would further state that we would as an industry fully support the creating of mechanisms that allow for what situation you just describe to happen I think that that is a reasonable and fair compromise we would love to bring to the table Sir. Okay follow up Mr okay I just wanna make sure so it's not in the towing company's policy now that if an insurance company reaches out to you by phone that the record driver is required under your regulations and rules under the towing company to release that cargo is is that just something that individual towing company they make that decision but it's not part of your rules to do that is that just a yes or no yes Sir okay thank you. Represent hope you're recognized thank you Mr thank you for your testimony I think there's not anybody in this room that is not sympathetic with you guys or consumers I think it's a really tough issue my question though is based on your testimony it sounded to me like you said that roughly twenty five to thirty percent you don't get paid for is that correct. Yes with you being on the board or commission why haven't you guys come to this body before now to to tell us that this is been a real issue that you guys are not getting paid for this you it's it's it's a it's a fabulous question I think that a lot of that is re dressed in my original statement we're not really political operators are our our comfort level is out on the highway in doing our jobs and so we we take it on the chin a lot and we we try to grin and bear it no nobody calls us when they're having a good day so we're we're used to catch in the rough end of the stick and it's it's it's it's probably I will I will take accountability we should of property address on this but I think it's interesting to note representative Tosh that in a few states who have a roll did the lien laws in the way that we're talking about today we see those rates of abandonment go to forty five to fifty percent. That is the fear that you're seeing in the eyes of the men and women who stop their businesses today and showing up we've heard a lot about people talking about there's there's threats of not cleaning up the highway. I respectfully I would say those are not threats the those are economic realities and what you're hearing is is not under its sphere and and a cry for help follow up. Okay and I and I get that I really do I promise you know it was listening to you talk about picking up oranges right I actually growing up I had a friend that was tow guy and he actually called the help me had me come in and pick up stuff within one time so I get what you're coming from I but I do have a question because I have a constituent admission all address it later but So it sounds to me like when there's a rollover accident and there's stuff all over the road. A lot of times that cargo is not anything that anybody wants correct yes Sir okay so. It seems to me like when there is valuable cargo that stays on your using somebody else's cargo to pay for the previous mass up with that would that would that be right to sign a hundred percent and and I think what we live in is the law of unintended consequences and my advocacy would be that if you raise the rates of abandoned cargo you're really off putting those costs on to some other person who again doesn't deserve yeah and I just go back to what I heard the words fair quite a bit and I just don't understand how that is fair to the next consumer when and that is to no fault of their own why they're being held they're hot they're still is being held hostages sensually for somebody else's rollover so that's a and I'm I'm just asking questions and and I appreciate your response I understand. Thank you Mr chair create your time at taking out date come in and visit with this but my question is why do you think we're here today. I think you're here today to to find a solution no Sir why why are you here today why do you think of. We are in this room together I think I think B. we are in this room room with with the near fever pitch of alarm because of previous to to now we have been unable to find meaningful compromise solutions to move forward we're here today to tell you that we're ready to work on this problem as an industry we've been ready that stance has not changed and we we understand that it's not a perfect system we're here to make it better we're here to advocate for us to to not have the burden shifted on us but to allow us a seat at the table to be a participant in reasonable compromise that allows us to efficaciously be paid for the services we are compelled to render. Follow up. My question. I have another question here to serve and I hate that we're here today. But my question is is what could've been done differently so we're not here today. Waston. Time when we could have already had this hashed out and taking care of you know is to representative eleven point you know of the attempts you know to to reach out to the tow board association or or G. all group. yes Sir I I wouldn't I wouldn't for all all the all the all the the money insurer in the world this March anybody's character I don't know why we have not been able to to have a compromise but I do know that the calls and and questions and enquiries that were meaningfully put forward to come to the table previous to the six days before this and this legislation was was introduced and after have gone unanswered and I don't have answers for you as to why those those calls have have fell on silent years deaf ears but but I'm I'm here to tell you that I don't think it's too late we're ready. Share. Okay and in my questions are along those same lines it as representatives time attorney may not be able to answer this because representative Evans gave testimony that in December they attempted to come to some compromise cannot X. what your specific issues were with what representative eleven was attempting to do correct so so I will I will speak personally yes from the experiences that I had when I was at that meeting attended that meeting there was no legislation presented in any form that we could review we talked to broadly with the trucking industry in with us about the issues that were at hand we we felt like we did a good job in advocating our side and our point of view we spoke about a bond categorically spoke about a bond issue that may create some solution to this we extended we extended invitations for for follow up after that and and as was testified today what which phone calls were had and and and in that phone calls the the the requisitions for further meetings were were were made and I just just being truthful and and the next thing we heard was was that a bill was filed. Okay. A follow up missed. My follow up years in in with everyone else I'm on the fence in regards to this because I understand the trucking they they want the car goal and I understand or just want to keep a I understand what do I say to those that say you mentioned earlier twenty five percent of bills go unpaid what do I say to those that say to me representative Shepherd the towing. company does not have to take the job. I would I would ask who's gonna clean up your highways and and who's gonna get traffic growing in and how what are the effects of the supply chain going to be when when recto in companies economically cannot afford to do that you it's true we can pull ourselves off of non consent rotations but as I said we're where we have the heart of first responders and for us that leaves a huge gap in the public service that needs to be done needs to be done well by professionals and so yeah I'm I'm a pathetic to that entire. Thank you. President Michel. Thank you Mr chair a thank you for being here today I have come around a little bit late we're a citizen led legislatures thanks for being patient with us I don't understand. Your business model I I do something else completely different so yes Sir thank you for your patience as I kind of try to wrap my head around this issue and. I'm I'm trying to understand with cargo situation. in the circumstances that you are describing where no one. Thank you for telling yes Sir. What do you do with that Carter are what can you do so so I I can give you really example I have twelve six foot high thirty two hundred pound rolls of paper at my yard. Represent the college if you know where I can take that stuff I would I would very much like to talk I've been trying to get rid of it for a year and a half and been unable to in the cases of of of of of spoiled food we have to load them on to adopt and take into account and pay dump fees I did I did a a load of pomegranate juice heart healthy pomegranate juice that was condemned I had a hole that to the state of Oklahoma and pay an Oklahoma a dumping facility to to to to take this cargo it's it's not easy cargos is a very real problem for us and so the the the real answer is expand time rep effort and money to to to try to find a place to to take these and to do these in a way that is compliant with the regulations of of of the EPA and and the people who have interest in that. So what I'm hearing is sounds like a lot of times you're having to pay either some type of fee to get rid of it or maybe opportunity costs for time spent yes Sir doing something with this are you able to. Sell the cargo or profit from the cargo that there may be some extreme and hand the isolated incidences where it is but where that where that is the case but but but there are more by hundreds more often it's worthless and and ones of being in that cost for us which really becomes a problem because it's at that point that the insurance company says Hey look we're empathetic to you but we have a writer on this policy that says we have a five thousand dollar policy limit your five thousand dollars get it from the trucking company who's an independent owner operator out of state trucking company that we have no ability to seek redress from. Okay thank you senator occur. Thank you Mr chairman thank you for your testimony it's my understanding that representive eleven true intent and heart is protecting consumers who have lawfully purchased a product that is due to them I believe that. Coming from a family where my father in law was at forty year veteran truck driver ABF there's also some financial incentives and penalties when. Trucks are delayed when they can't meet certain deadlines and things like that so. In an effort to. Make them whole make you guys hole and meet the needs of the end consumer. What mechanism in your talks in yours submissions in your request could exist other than a bag of money and a check being handed to you what other mechanism could work that would release that cargo immediately we would be and highly favored a situation where there's a simple bond written in issued on the the the the the tow bill that would allow the cargo to go immediately and again as we discussed there's a of a pantheon of circumstances with different people in different loads having different change of ownership and change of custody we're not even picky about who is delegated to be the right person to do that money would change almost the independent to the load but but again all we're looking to do is get over that threshold of reasonable assurance that we're going to be compensated and upon would do just that and and and and by the way has the netted initiative allowing us to relieve yourself of the burden of this cargo it for having to keep it in a refrigerated trailer unit or if it's if it's critical if it's if it's critical to somebody down the line would be extraordinarily amenable to that I think the amendment that's been proposed is is is better get along those lines thank you follow up on an end you may not be able to answer this as as not a bond salesman but is the process to secure that significantly. More time favorable than going through the insurance right it can be not all insurance companies are created equal again there are many cargo loads that are released just on a phone call from the adjuster says Hey this they got great coverage of got good things let this stuff go but it's it's in those moments when we look at the asset there in terms of the truck it's not these name brand trucking companies that you know that we know have are going to take care of their business it's you these ones that have the name changed five times on the side of the the thing the truck looks like it was barely running down the road when it goes it's those moments when a bond issuance would would really help us that and I'll tell you that it's an efficacious a solution in multiple states across the US currently so there's no there's no necessary reason to re write the the the playbook here it's working in other states and and we we've been amenable for that we brought up bonds all the way back to the first time we met just to be honest right and and in my ignorant concern would be if that's not a. Much more quicker easier faster mechanism for the truck driver of the truck and freight owner then it's it's not a a real solution but but if you're saying that in other states and other scenarios that is securing surety bond is significantly more quick than engaging with adjusters and insurance companies and assessments that's helpful information thank you. President Paul thank you Mr ago kind of piggy backing off of represent McCollum talk about that cargo would be beneficial for the tow companies to I mean just go ahead releases so you would incur those fees or or you know like you mention going to Oklahoma to get read the Jews of. It would almost be beneficial just to say Hey look I I don't wanna mess of this state and that way I don't have to take on these fees to do all this I I agree with you but but unless I vehemently understand the provisions of this it's there's nothing compulsory that they come pick up the cargo that's to my point if it's a pomegranate use that has been condemned they're perfectly happy I wish I hadn't I'm going to make the assumption that people are perfectly happy to leave that load with us stick us with the cost but if it's gold bullion II they'll come pick that up for free it in it's it's this interesting dichotomy that allows the stake holders the ability to assess the situation making Namik economic decision as to whether they're gonna come get it or not that that catalyst is what is being deprived of us by this legislation that is compulsorily making us release this and we don't we don't have the ability to assess if we're going to get paid before we engage in the services that we're offering follow. Follows and I'm asking questions I don't know this and was passed to me by constituent it is it true that if if you guys hold either a truck or trailer or cargo for forty five days that that is owned by the tow company after forty five days there's a process where you can perfect that lean and you can liquidate the assets and the cargo in trying to seek of redress for your for your for your your fees now I'll tell you that that's no part at the end of the rainbow because if in that circumstance the the fees the the the compensation that you receive in the selling of those go in excess of your the Bill you have to remit that back to that's available for remittance back to the people originally on it so it's not as though if we have a a load of Mercedes Benz we get to Sullivan make a million dollars we get paid for our fees and the rest goes back to the people who that it's due to it's just a first possessory lien that that says that our services have to be compensated first thank you. President roh you're recognized. Thank you. You. Okay we'll get. You know I hate that you're left holding the bag defected you I'm seeing you working all night and get your crew at their and get back home I don't know for me get paid today is there a way that you could buy insurance it would Delta State affordable that you will be covered for something like this I'm just put myself in their place I'm I'm unaware of any insurance available for that I do know that in other industries like the petroleum industry when people there's a mess left and someone sale of told the builder state funds that are available a sample that is available unfortunately none of those means a modality of redress are available to us at this time and and not at this time that I know about Sir okay. It would be great state let's start insurance company. You saying no more questions thank you for your testimony Mr Ross thank you J. thank you the next speaking for the bill a Shannon ever. Shepherd induce yourself for you we of the United States. Good morning my name is Shannon ever one of the owners of a refrigerated trucking company here in Little Rock Arkansas in a course press we specialize in. Your frozen refrigerated goods for a lot of our major food producers from the state of Arkansas. my my experience about twenty four years in the trucking industry prior to pinnacle as a CEO of a much larger trucking company we had over a thousand employees. And so I have a lot of experience in dealing with truck accidents in towing companies. it's not a matter of You know if we're going to have accident usually with trucks and the amount of miles that our drivers travel it's when something's going to happen unfortunately you know the nature of our business is a those accidents of course are not plan you know so we never know of what time of day or where it's going to happen or when it's going to happen and so I know there's been a lot of conversation today about you know just the the agreements with the towing companies and we never know who are going to use or who were going to have to call or and in most cases and in one of the ones I will testify about today you know we don't get afforded the opportunity of even if it's in our hometown to pick who it is that we're going to use. And so I just wanna I wanna make sure my that my testimony today is is brought to you and and unity I see that I've I've I feel like the towing companies in the trucking companies have a lot more in common than than we have against one another and so you know I feel like a lot of the testimony's been share this morning on on their side has a lot of value to it and this is something that we consider not representative Springer and representing Shepherd also brought up some good issues and and one of those is because we don't have those relationships and we don't have those arrangements you know the it's very important that we have good legislation to to work through these disputes because not when nobody's agreed on a price nobody's agreed what tow company can be used and so we're really at the mercy of the situation that unfolds. And so one of the examples I want to share with you it was an accident that happened two years ago. here in Little Rock Arkansas I had a a with a truck catch on fire the trailer caught on fire sorry the trailer caught on fire the driver called in and he was told to to disconnect that the truck from the trailer and and he did that well the tow company then decided they wanted to tow the truck it was a trailer fire the only fire was on the trailer was no fire on the truck in the the two things disconnected so the driver disconnected the vehicle pulled apart. And then of got me on the phone and said Hey they're trying to tell the truck I school you know they can't tell the truckers nothing wrong with the truck and so we had that we had an engagement with them. they ended up getting in the truck and driving it away and drove it to their tow yard. And so you know we protest it we we went up to their facility we said Hey you know you have no rights to this truck we need our truck and they said well you can you can have your truck when you pay the bill. And so what we don't have a bill this is on a Monday so it and have a bill yet on Friday we got the bill in the bills for sixty seven thousand dollars. The the trailer that it caught fire was on the side of the interstate it was on the shoulder it was not blocking the highway it was not it was not a wrecker the trailer was destroyed in pieces really and all the all over the highway the truck wasn't destroyed laying all over the highway the cargo was still in the trailer because the fire had consumed the back of the trailer the cargo had started to spill out on the ground a little bit. but we so this is a matter that has been in litigation for the last two years all we had to file a lawsuit for replevin and for conversion of we were we were awarded the replevin case and got the truck released eventually. But you know we felt lack of in that situation that we should have had more laws and regulations that kind of control this arrangement in this atmosphere that we have with these towing companies so that a situation like that is not allowed where a vehicle can be held hostage against a bill a bill that I didn't agree to a bill that I had no way of approving the rates that were used I had no way of approving of how many vehicles are how many operators route they're responding to it I was not afforded the right to pick the towing company that responded even when I told the towing company don't tell the truck the truck still got towed. And so on I am here for the bill because I do feel like the current of rules and regulations that we have in our industry odd are not equitable for both parties I agree that the tow company should have some kind of guarantee that they're going to be paid there should be some equity there aw I'm I am for some of the suggestions that we've heard today on the bond issue all I know by law as a trucking company I'm required to have liability insurance it's I don't believe that I have to have cargo in physical damage insurance even though I do not all companies we'll have that like that was been mentioned. Okay I've been mentioned several times some people Kerry a low limits of towing of towing insurance. And so I think the I think the bond recommendation is a great way bonds or bonds are easy to acquire their affordable you know I think it should be a reasonable amount but I think that's a a good solution that of both industries both the towing industry in the trucking industry can come together on I don't know if it's in this legislation this bill or an amendment to another bill but. definitely I can see why that would be needed for them but in in in doing so there would be no need for them to hold the truck trailer or cargo they have a bond that covers them up to a certain amount they release everything. And then they're able to phone that monitor not paid and I think I think there's I know in my experience with all these cases of the incident that I that I shared with you all was a very rare rope thing I don't think it fairly is very representative of the entire towing industry as much as it was just a bad situation the bad operator just like that can happen in the trucking industry but we need to have rules and regulations from our government authority that prevents people from being able to behave that way and hold people hostage. Your question yes. There's a mac or. Thank you talked about that thank you for being here and thank you for your testimony you talked about bond and bond and and I agree I think it that would be great it would this be a federal issue because there's Interstate Commerce you know use that my understanding is not as much as the. Problem with the truckers in Arkansas as of folks who may be coming from one country to another the bond issue does seem to be more of a federal issue I'm not to I'm not. Real familiar on how bills are written or how that affects rules and legislation but I do know that this entire issue issue that we're talking about even if we started on the state level is probably wind up being a bigger discussion on federal I agree thank you so much and thank you Mr any other questions or committee. Thanks every. Okay. Next we have a. We must get grade Cochran is that correct. Okay there will. Mackerel. A motion Mr what's your motion a motion to limit testimony to five minutes on each side for each test it H. one testifying we will Mister chair like to hear from all. Everybody wants to test a test for but I think we will run out of time for your we have a motion to limit five minutes to each Speaker in discussion. All in favor say aye at any oppose them Lacson hearing none will be limited to five minutes then from now free Speaker my foster you're recognized identify yourself. You're speaking against the bill. That that's correct chairman Powell foster I'm the mayor of the city wide all Arkansas Jackson County I have a problem we have a pretty unique perspective on this on this bill my family has been in the towing business over the years hi I have no financial interest in the in the towing industry. I was a police officer for twenty five years retired as the chief of police and I'm on my fourth term as mayor. So I know people on both sides of the issue that you know I I appreciate represented eleven is work on this bill my concern is and I know some of the people of the operators are here today my concern at on the bill as it is written is there is nothing that compels of cooperators to come clean up a mess if they don't think they don't get paid. The state police of his captain Tosh would tell you that I can put him off the list the thank taken off the list. The sheriff's office and taken off the list we can take him off of our list we cannot compel them come clean up of a wreck if they don't think they're gonna get paid. I have an interstate runs through my highway I am contiguous to large industrial plants a park that has many industries in it from chicken to pop up to paper mills to electrical component my concern is that is that they don't respond if I get a truck turned over on a city street. And thank my come clear the streets but if they don't clean the mess up that's going to leave it to me and my public works team to clean up the right way. What we don't what I don't want to say is state police or highway police or county sheriff for my municipal police officers having to stand by for our zoning in. Two. Two Indian you know who's gonna clean up if if the if the tow operators to do not feel that they're being treated fairly. Whether that's perception of reality. I don't have to come clean the mess up what I would ask of this committee is it is it is S. as this bill as written you know when you look at the the exclusions on the possessory Lang it all looks like personal items in a. In a regular passenger vehicle until you get to the last item in cargo is very broad in this in this bill you know I would ask this committee humbly ask this committee to and and representive eleven I know his intentions his spirit is good in this but that we that we. Work with the tow operators in the trucking industry to try to narrow this bill narrow this down to where both sides can come to some compromise as this is written up I fear that he could have some very adverse consequences on small towns counties and even on the state the no I've spoken to some of my colleagues across the area about this very thing in and I don't supported at as it is written either they have great concerns about this so I would just humbly ask the committee considered tight one is and you know let's work to to to get this little more narrow we're both sat representive eleven the trucking industry and the cooperators work together to narrow this to narrow this language down into where they both feel like they're being treated fairly thank you every testimony questions from committee. You saying none thank you mayor next to speak for the bill Chris Hart. Chris I didn't recognize you that beard within the court shall and it's it's great introduce yourself and. And can we with you may begin your test on absolutely my name's Chris Darden I'm sure not a politician and it's days like this were I appreciate that my vocation is something different I'm the president and CEO of central owning cooperated and employee owned company based in Jefferson County Arkansas which makes this a unique morning for me since my hometown measure spoke in front of me in my county judges right behind me. Also not sure how I'm ever going to get another total for doing this but that's okay I I would like to rely on the common sense of people behind me that I think at least up until this morning were friends of mine I've heard a lot this morning about being reasonable. And I would like to follow along with that thing because reason for me is I'm not gonna sit here and give you an example of how this is affected our business. I'm going to give you an example of how I think it can there's been a lot of talk about shipping and obviously our people get paid by shipping transformers and components that's that's what pays the bills that's what keeps our lights on and inevitably it's what keeps the lights on at this capital to because that electricity is coming representative Maloney bill products but the thing that I think that's been the most ignored or the the thing I really want to touch on is we've heard a lot during the pandemic discussion in coming out of that obviously with labor shortages of what it's like for a manufacturer to try to get materials and literally the just in time state that we live and work through these days is pretty dire and obviously our people need to get paid but if our materials don't have been we don't have anything for them to do when they have to go home how many of you guys know the Jefferson County Arkansas center Maloney with a payroll of fifty million dollars is kind of important I may have to remind the county judge that when this is over. But that's okay because we're important in my mission and my job is to keep the tow truck I was working but first keep the central only people working them by cars with that payroll and then call the tow truck people obviously it's it's critical for what we do we're part of the lecture electrical infrastructure not just of this great state but of the United States and we do not have the opportunity we absolutely can pick the freight carriers that we ship our products through but we don't get that right with our materials and it's those materials that are literally just in time and often times way too late for us to use on time that we have to depend on somebody else to not only ship but to insure and that puts us in incredibly compromised position I I promise you I will be less than five minutes to prove to you I'm not a politician but I want you guys to consider that I think you've got a responsibility to make sure that anything that has a okay shipping point from Arkansas and a destination point of Arkansas is critical not just to keep consumers going but to help us keep your lights on. Any questions Committee representative Shepherd you're recognized really quickly yes so you mention you can pick your shippers. Does part of it includes determining if they have another coverage for what you're asking them to ship absolutely our customers require that in in often cases they can have a certain level of insurance coverage we still don't to primarily investor owned utilities and those guys are pretty tight about who they let on their yard so obviously we have to and provide copies of that to our customers okay thank you. You saying no other questions Chris thank you like yes motion. next week against the bill judge Robinson. Defy yourself. If you hold five minutes I don't maybe that they were holding things that I think. I do the best. I appreciated that represents a whole and the whole body here eyes this is certainly a joy to me to be able to sit in a room where everybody gets a long I'm not I'm not used to that but I really appreciate that I'm I. Identify yourself I'm judge Robinson Joe Robinson Jefferson County judge I have thirty one years of previous law enforcement was a sheriff of twelve years of Jefferson County before I took office and I'm out now my second term as the a county judge my main concern about this bill was that the the total broadness of it and and being able to see both sides of of the trucking industry side and in the in the the tow trucking side my my concern was that in many cases that when you had some type of catastrophe or rack or something like that that you know I've been getting a hearing that you know that if they have to bear all these costs that may be some opportunities where they may not come on the scene or whatever and then that and that made me think about what would happen if they did not and as far as the the county or the city municipality would have to be made responsible for trying to take care of those things and and so from my perspective it was just the the economic and the the the availability and manpower. To say what if I do feel like if there was some more discussion talk to where both parties can come together and and make it feasible for both parties and so right now as it is I'm I'm against a broad is of the building and and I do think that there needs to be some more streamlined precautions taken up for for both parties to be able to recoup losses if the my. So that's where I am going to be any questions from committee. Thank you thank you judge ito thank you so much. Our next speaking for the bill Greg Kirk factor Greg you would. Information for you would you may begin. Thank you Mr chairman a Greg Kirkpatrick Arkansas dealers I appreciate the committee's time and represent mackerel if I go over five minutes being tackled me I can promise I'll keep it brief but I do have a very quick story we represent about two hundred fifty new card new car in heavy truck dealers today that that and that that means about a hundred twenty five thousand new vehicles are being sold by those those businesses in Arkansas all those are being brought in this state by car haulers what's kind of unique in the last couple years we've seen more and more those vehicles are already sold in fact previously to this to the to the pandemic in the supply chain issues I can tell you there are a lot of dealers that just as soon have a car hauler break down the side of the road not get more cars dropped off at their lot because is busting at the seams and it was just going to sit there for seventy five or eighty days today a lot of those vehicles already have names on them so we actually had a dealer we had an issue pop up with when I passed your men customer bought a car at the end of December car a car hauler broke down it was a Tahoe so that is sixty five thousand dollar car was on this car hauler full of vehicles of the delivery was scheduled for early January. Customer kept asking the dealer where the vehicle was vehicle had been delivered nobody was certain parties were dealers trying to help the customer figured out the consumer hold up their app on their phone they had a Cadillac in on their OnStar app. They were already showing the Tahoe that they bought on their app is as assigned to them well they found out where it was located in this that not a lot here in central Arkansas to storage lot. So for the next forty five days the customer and the dealer tried to get this thing for the consumer while it sitting there finally the vehicle was released it was delivered to the customer but not after seven on your side got involved not after Facebook blew up the the dealership and and and this was sort of an unintended consequence I think of of what's happened what what can happen in a little bit of a war story obviously so we're really just looking for some kind of relief but I did want to paint a real life picture for for how this this may not necessarily just be cargo that's that sitting there may actually be something that that a consumer actually owns I'd be happy to take questions I am not an expert on the towing price for the relationships I don't know how much I can provide there but I'd be happy to take questions this work. Thank you Mr I'm over here yes a I'm trying to find out what was the what was the of vehicle at the storage lot had they been in an accident or something that taking place now and I guess that I left out that the the car hollered broken down so the tractor and the car hauler and the trailer with the cards on it were all transport as a unit so something that we've already heard within so this has to do with the person holding the thank you yes any other questions. Singer Chris thank you test thank you Committee increases patients on this. Okay we're going back to those are speaking yes we have Greg Cochran list used to run a test for a. Bragg Dennis by yourself and are you with me made again. Punch punch but. All right okay chairman members of the committee thank you for allowing me to speak my name's Greg Cochran a lot Julie on Arkansas truck center I'm Arkansas my father and I started this business thirty years ago today my wife my son we run the business for generations is there is ready to drive a truck please to so we got a little time to lay their. I'm develop tomorrow as saying the last four days we've had since we learned this bill came up. It simply says pay your bill in ten minutes you can have your car going eleven minutes every story of her testify today forty five days two hundred days pay your bill come get your stuff. It's as simple as that. I of. I'm an established business as well truck has a class seven eight trucks salvage we have a question about the value of the trucks the majority the trucks we see. Today there under insured and no insurance. And no driver's license we honestly picked people up and no driver's license or eight to ten year old trucks trucks many of over a million million five hundred thousand miles on. Two thousand twelve model trucks so to speak with salvage value run by run down the road for twenty twenty five thousand dollars ready to go so it's a lower level truck once the wrecked the salvage value average about sixty four hundred dollars the trailers that we get in reefer units. Our time or time sensitive not time sensitive but there there are a lot of labor involved in prepping them for scrap because the installation EPA concerns what not they're worth about ten cents a pound so roughly fifteen hundred dollars or less. Excuse me so you say the salvage value is not there to recoup our bill and I do have a copy of this if anybody wants it we keep track of. Our losses throughout our businesses somebody testified roughly twenty five percent we did a a spreadsheet and I sit in my once copy of when we have cargo when we do not have cargo. The reasons it currently that we do not have a car will this man convenient food products fire like Jon testified while ago that we don't have any product. When we have no cargo to hold the average date time it takes us to get paid as an industry is one hundred and nine days. When we have a product to hold and I can insurers will once it the the trucking company wants it it's good cargo when they wanted fifteen days. The percentage that we mark all that we lose in this particular scenario when we just a rough draft it's a twenty two percent loss. We heard testimony that if this bill passes it'll rise to forty five of forty seven. I'm eight a twenty two percent. My business I can't stand forty C.. It in a lot so my dream of the grand size Sunday. That aspect of business is out. And that's been my testimony thank you very much I built for questions but I want to see it I'll be glad to get to. President will. Thank you Mr I would like to see that after you're not going not right now but just so I can as testimony goes on but If if it's at such a high percent I mean could you guys so cars and everything correct. No Sir all we do is class seven eight trucks I do not own any automotive records at all so that's all you do is is eighteen wheelers and things like that right okay well than that answers answers my question thank you thank you any other questions committee. Review Springer. We yes I would just like for him to share his information with the committee or sure he sent his paperwork that he S. okay with the someone staff has been working up with. You know it and if you'll notice and I didn't take the time to put your making model and and and I left out company names is not my intention to to to To find anybody but you'll notice it says if they are out of state or local Arkansas trucking company or puts a national company so I've got that itemized for you look at as well I agree we appreciate your testimony thank you Sir thank you saying no question. All right next week and for the bill and I can't read the last name is Steve Arkansas retail grocers. You're. I can't hear is that maybe state. The server chair. Hi none of our Stephen do several years of an you've got five minutes yes Sir I'll go quick. Mr members of the committee my name is Steve good I come to you today action representing two entities the first one I want to talk to about this real briefly my own grocery stores I'm a small two story independent grocer. stores located on highway sixty five in Clinton to mask this I am an independent grocers and we buy from a co op warehouse when we buy those goods from that Cooper house we are our our product comes to us via a third party carrier. This is a good bill because this bill ensures me that my product will never be hijacked and kept kept captive by it in the event that that third party carriers stopped and has to be towed. I know there's been some talk about insurance and the reality is with the time settlement that it takes insurance companies just to settle. You know if you've got frozen food I spring on a reefer truck and that product is hailed for anything longer than probably twenty four hours that product's going to be gone over and done with. Many of you remember what store shelves are light during the pandemic. We passed that now we're back in business is it And as retailers but certainly if trucks can be taken and our our cargo taken from us and Health because of the third party carrier not agreeing with the tow company then that puts us in jeopardy of keeping our sources. I'll take that hat off now and I put on my grocers and retail merchants association at we have members that have had cargo hailed. It's not a good thing we we've had third party carriers that have tried deliver paper goods and their their trucks have been hailed canned goods their trucks have been hailed the cargoes been ill and so again this is a good bill because. When we buy that product from that manufacturer from that wholesaler we expect delivery. The fight is not about us this is not a big versus small business issue this is a consumer issue and we're the consumer and we pass it on to our consumers with that I'll take any questions any questions Mr. Thank you record. Yes Sir Mr good thank you for your your testimony and it's helpful to your real life experiences on that in your urgency to have your cargo relieved I know that there has been discussion on both sides of bonds being something that could be there I know that legislatively we can't require bonds to be held before an accident or for it to exist as a mandate but post accident. Do you feel that there would be an interruption in securing your cargo if the tow companies willing to accept a bond after an accident as a sign of good faith well from from a retailer's perspective you know why should I be out the bond yeah again because that's my product that that we we have we have either paid for that ahead of time or we are committed to paying for that through the F. T. and you know running a small business is hard enough as it is so tough to have another step that I've got to do to go ensure a load that gets to me you know I I think that I don't think that we should be adding government I think that we should be working inside the laws in and changing by laws to good ones like this one to ensure that we get our product. Understood follow our yes so currently as the owner of the cargo you would still be required to work with the trucking agency to send another truck out there to go get that secure your product and continue its route that so depending on who the shipper is so some the shipper take would take care of that and then if we contracted the load specifically for us and and that would be you know summertime like sailor watermelons very seldom is the if I go by an entire truckload of watermelons very seldom does that truck do most of the time I have to contract that so yes in that case I would have to go out and and find another third party to pick up that load and you know it's hard enough to load one truckload watermelons much less loaded off one on to another final follow up. So it does seem that there's some discrepancy and who should be responsible for for settling the bill if you're the not the shipping agency but you're the owner of the cargo with and that's does seem to be a point of contention is as a small business owner and someone who engages in these contracts with shippers. Is is it possible or logistically. Capable of having those since we know accidents will happen. Addressing who's responsible for the bond. I had a time with that be something that no no more than I do that no more than we do that because again it's very seldom that we do that I can I really can't speak to that because again you know fifty two weeks of the year I'm not responsible for my shipping for my main suppliers and so I I I really I don't guess I could probably speak to your question there and answer that intelligently okay thank you yes Sir thank you represent Springer thank you Mr the folks were talking about a small business owners too aren't they. So it goes both ways isn't that true well again you know I don't think this is a big versus small business issue for us it's simply consumer issue for us. And it is for the other is this for the towing company to view her to testimony from Mr Ross he he's concerned about that too so it goes both ways so that's why it's important for you all to try to get together and try to work this out so I'm I mean the testimony to me is going both ways this is thank you yes my state thank you for your testimony yes Sir Mr thank you all right next to us testifying against is a joke but only DO Germer. I have I have Steve Rogers next on the. Four lane Edwards. When you come on you come on testify. Hold a minute only meant I'm going down the list. I'm trying to be fair where. When. The come on testify your I'm going down the list so I don't want to. Call. In addition self and and who you're with you may begin. Good morning of my name is Steve Rogers I'm the marketing director these days for the cans Toyne of Ozark Arkansas and while I am here in part representing Mr Pench it's hard for me not to share with you a more universal and broader view of what's going on today in about house bill fifteen sixty three because I served for eight years as director of the towing and recovery board prior to that I ran the trade association you're quick apology I retired because of my severe hearing loss so I brought my girlfriend with me Joe and he's going to make sure that I do not miss any questions or in the valuable information I apologize thank you for your patience I thank you for your valued time a lot of people are interested in this bill a number you all have mentioned that this seems to be more of a national trucking issue You're right. They've been interested ATA's been errors in this bill for a long time even though you would think that this is about interstate commerce a national issue they know they can't pass this legislation at the national level that does for them White House Bill fifteen sixty three proposes to do they're hoping to give this bill the other stage and shopping around as they develop their language they shared some stories with you this morning about their bad experiences we have a few as well but you know what nobody in this room likes to be defined by their lowest common denominator not in their business community or their industry and my guess is unfortunately none of those folks are here this morning none of those folks are in this room that you and I would talk about. House Bill fifteen sixty three accuses the total industry of disrupting the supply chain nothing could be further from the truth. Whether it's picking up pieces or saving a refrigerated load is mentioned earlier. Without a tow company separate those products would be lost or they would suffer damage that is renders the cargo useless our company has invested in equipment and training needing proper preserve cargo for our customers. Honestly we hope than that and there will be a return on that investment. This bill affected really shift the financial burden liability for failure to insure and properly insurer to a tow company releasing cargo for free. That total company has handled moved the Legislative stored and save and paid the landfill fees for is so rewards brokers for engaging in poor business practices not properly contracting with companies that are properly to ensure. We do not believe this is an insurance problem coverages are available. All you have to do is run your business responsibly you should not ask the legislature to protect you from your own bad decisions a lot of us in this room are opposed to being asked to pay for research that someone else as soon. Before the date even started. Releasing cargo because it's the right thing to do. Sometimes it has some unfortunate consequences Ozark going worked in action twenty seventeen involving live ammunition what we were paid for the initial clean up. And the cargo were delivered. We still. Reserved and stored damaged material that included live ammunition. Seven hundred and eighty days storage. Special consideration for containers and fishing and security. No money not one dime not from the insurance provider not from the trucking company not even the OD and R. possessory lien was negated when we released the cargo. Every tow company in this room has a similar story House Bill fifteen sixty three looks real simple but it punishes good business. It in Steve your term reserve give me a few minutes just Minnesota ranks you Sir of. It treats cargo brothers have only handle or lightly handled in the same manner it treats cargo is personal property it does not record record recognize the difference between cargo and debris this is a major fall. it sure is that companies are insured. A. Mister chairman I'm gonna stop right there and and I'll be glad to answer any questions or any questions from committee. Representantes you're recognized. Thank you Mister Rogers do you test for you brought up something about storage and I was just curious of what a tow company stores a tractor trailer with cargo. They charge a day storage for each one of those that charge but let me put it this way to lay charges storage for the truck they should also charges Shepherd storage for the trailer and the separate storage for the cargo or is it just one storage for the entire unit do you know. Richmond Tosh it varies from company to company in my experience you know in general the industry looks at that unit is one eight as one unit traveling down the highway and in the statute even speaks to that however in a in a stored situation you're talking about square footage so we would hope if we got a complaint. And and we with the we always looked at that issue for example the board would frown on attempting to to charge for storage when it's inside the a trailer that your needs charging storage for. Is there a standard is our standard. Thank you for storage of that y'all have set aside in the towing association or is it up left at age telling company the statute reads that that the fees and so forth have to be reasonable and and if you spend as much time as a staff that we generated and I'd spent and and those of the board the the experience of the board had we we knew if we got a case must represent we knew what was reasonable. Okay just a couple questions here and I'll wrap it up what the what would you say was the percentage of towing companies calls from the state police rotation list all state police rotation list what would you say of you should eighty percent of their total college company that listed you fifty percent I'm just curious. Up. Again it varies I will tell you this I I will when I went to work for these guys they told me that any tow company that relied on more than twenty five thirty percent of their towing to be is it because to come to them as a direct result of of law enforcement it probably was not a very good business model on the heavy side of the. You see probably of less involvement of with rotation or or relying on rotation then you do on the like to the side sure. It in is it true that the at the scene of an accident that the and less the you know the officer needs of record to expedite the clearing of that saying and open up the highway to get debris of the road the center that actually at the scene that the first choice of the driver of the whatever vehicle it is is an owner's request another rotation is that not true that's correct Sir and and so and so if trucking companies then are lagging on the rotation list I mean they could come up and say you know we're going to set up a with our trucking company that if we need a record we're going to use so and so and so and so who we understand we'll release our cargo they'll do this but most rely on that rotation Leah's and the. eighty is if what I'm saying do you understand what I'm trying. Yes Sir because they could go that route but so for everybody's kind of state on the rotation list state police as set up and and obviously they will continue to do that state police will and use ever who's next up on the call in less like I stated earlier we need to clear that saying or expedite the call agreed yes Sir and particularly on the last ten years of the State of Arkansas is adopted the traffic incident management program the total industry particularly heavy towers have invested heavily in the proper equipment and training to meet those standards whether it's an honor to request or whether their own rotation Russian Tosh and part of that you know you talk about the economic of this part of that if you shut down a highway that's an economic issue as well Peter scattered all along the I. thirty could stop traffic As well as anything apparently allowing a lot of our today's discussion has been about economics been and you brought up something that occurred that was implemented ten years ago when I have to apologize I'm not familiar with that because I retired twenty years ago so that was absent throughout already lay off so but thank you for pointing that out. This spring. Thank you Mr thank you representative Tosh those were some good questions I do have a question unrelated to that about complaints regarding excessive toll bills you receive complaints on a regular basis a complaint in the bottle bill sixty seventy eighty ninety thousand dollars. The date when I was director of the total board I can speak to that yes that that's okay we wouldn't we received some day and an on an annual basis as many as as eight hundred to a thousand phone calls of those a very small percentage of those calls turned in what we call a formal complaint really actually filled out an application we need to help. We were very with it in the few instances of where we are an insurance company or a truck owner. Engage with us and actually file a complaint Of the board in their hearing deliberation are able to not only penalize that individuals through fines of for their bad behavior but the order restitution to this to that either that insurance company or the trucking company that bill was passed through this this house committee years ago and it's been very very effective the other thing that the the told board does on a regular basis is is we we have that we can't dictate to a tow owner what they do but the investigator the director can call that tow company and we've gotten involved many many many times between the tow company in the trucking company to insure that the law was followed in that proper notice were followed you can't just pick up some days merchandise and hide it you have so many days to reach out to send notices and there's a process that you can you have to go through before that information can be auctioned off it sure wasn't sure on this follow up I'm just trying to get him to tell me whether or not if you've received an excessive number of complaints related to excess of bills that range in those six no ma'am okay that's my question thank you so much thanks for your test thank you Mr or a next big thing for the bill read the still. I read you know. RenderMan interest. Thank you Mr. We have one more speak against the bill. Wiring Edwards. One introduce yourself you may begin your testimony. Thank you Mr chairman I will introduce myself to everyone and it was part of service and like manage a Benetton interstate forty seven years and this in my calendar share with this issue don't speak on behalf will rule Saudis Arkansas what impact this bill have owned all family or will have to for seven years this is Sharon Edwards hearing two seven you may begin hi I'm sharing it with Wilson is my debt he said he's been a business all forty seven years of he I just remember growing up seeing him get up in the middle of the night sometimes you know we wake up he's gone he's out in the House on highways trying to secure the roadways because of eighteen Wheeler has turned over and blocked the road this bill I think would do an injustice the service on a rule businesses especially heavy duty tow trucks because they are few and far between in the area. I've heard a testimony all day about how that it was actually affect the supply chain I I beg to differ because it actually increases supply chain I will even show you one example of this is my dad just in February and I passed around to you where he this is highway sixty five in rule Arkansas or truck overturned and blocked the entire highway this was right before Valentine's day it was full of red roses because of him that who of Valentine's day was a success for so many in the area they were able to get that cargo quickly of because they were properly insured they paid their bill and he was able to get right on top of of securing the cargo and get it back to the vendors. I think what if this bill is passed rule rule benders immediate rule. Tow truck owners like my dad. Would be put in an undue financial circumstance because we have very few in the area who can afford of those that first of all the high insurance costs related to this industry increased of workers comp insurance because of the danger of the job and when you read when you pass on those shifted financial risk all back over to the tow truck drivers especially rule Arkansas you erode their ability to provide the services that I think Arkansas I would expect them to to provide not only that with that case you could also I think You would end up having a total desert and those of a tow truck desert in those areas I think that's something that you definitely should consider I think the main topic here is passing on the financial burden over to the tow truck industry of because of the lack of. The ability to secure payment I think if with the conversations I've heard all day today if that part is you wrote it where that the financial risk is not passed along to the tow truck industry I think we would have a win win situation for all involved. Okay any questions from committee. You saying none thank you for your testimony. Okay. Next making for the bill Jeff longer. Do you happen to do set up for you with the necessary good morning Mr chairman and committee I'm Jeff log ins Loggains logistics a flat bed truck coming up in Jonesboro Arkansas and I'm here today for the bill and would we've got both sides you know we're both in the truck and in a way that we need to the tower companies but this bill here is just a defined cargo. It also adds cargo to the items that are currently exempt from S. or lease the forty to Taiwan and storage units. That's all it is this bill is not a referendum on toll operator fees or fee structures. Is not intended to relieve a transportation company from Pine. And all the rest of it is kind of going over the same thing so long your my time workers any questions. You represent Springer. Thank you Mr chair Corran the bill is cargo define. The card addition is is good to materials being transported by a motor carrier including pallets packaging securement systems that might be granted to any load in repurposed during transload Page. I don't have. All right thank you okay thank you for your testimony. Connect speak for bill Maher but you're. Okay I have someone assigned up that did not say where they were for against and I don't want as or anyone sheriff. Okay share your I can read your name to your Unitus yourself I know you speak for against the bill against our okay go ahead and do it yourself you may proceed to be sworn in. Thank you all for allow me to be here mature and members of the committee and not I'm here I do not have a vested interest in it issues that were you from I'm sorry sheriff Kevin molder I am from Poinsett County. And I am here I I do not have a vested interest in a tow company I do not have a vested interest in a trucking company I am here simply as an invested interest to law enforcement or public public safety so my concern is there I said I I had no clue about the towing company or a trucking company. My concern is is medical before that if we call for a tow truck the tow driver of trouble whoever's driving a tow truck will respond no matter what they will respond to that raked in they will claim the roadway. We've never had a problem we're rule County we're small County we have a population of about twenty four thousand and we're down to two towing companies my concern they're very reputable companies and my concern is that if we will we call when we need usually meet one quickly we have several highways go through our county and we have interstate on their account so it is important to us to make sure that we get a roadway clear and I am concerned that if in the way the bill is written if it's past that we may have I do not I do know two things if I call a tow truck company they will come in they will clean up no matter what it is so I know everyone will come I'm my biggest concern is what if they don't come how are we going to have to wait we don't we don't have the manpower to sit back and wait for another to overcome it who may or may not come so that is my concern for rule county that we need to take any questions or I appreciate you allowing me to speak. Represent all. Thank you Mr chairman so if you're not for the bill you don't like the wording in the bill what would be your solution to the bill it's it to make it to where would suffice what you're talking about and to get the essence of protecting consumers well I I think in that and that's something I would agree I've heard this over and over that. The two day to come together with common ground and they needed to come up with something and talk back and forth and say okay we agree upon I know the definition is being controversial but I don't think I think that if the to come together I think it could be said without doing this the way it's written that thank you. Sure thank you for your testimony thank you next breaking for the bill Shendu. And you know the procedure. Good morning chairman members of the committee I will be brief and to be honest I will tell you that until. Yesterday I did not anticipate coming to the table at all but the name of sorry standing president Arkansas trucking association are associations name has been used a lot by a lot of different people at this table for different reasons and so I just wanted to come in I guess give a little bit of context to that I don't view this bill as trucking verses telling that is not the intent of the policy and I don't think that that is the outcome of the policy I can speak a little bit of history obviously as representative Evans alluded to we work participants in the meeting back in December and we did receive a single phone call subsequent to that meeting but there were no solutions suggested prior to yesterday and so I just wanted members of the committee to have another source of the series of events as they played out. I think my greatest point that I want used in this emphasize with my few minutes is that the testimony has been about the broad implications of changing this policy and I would like to make the exact opposite argument of that I think the application this policy is extremely narrow based on the testimony of all the towers that have been at the table they have talked about hours cleaning up accidents hours spent managing and translating cargo that is not the scenario which were attempting to address we're talking about a cargo that was involved in an incident that is still desirable for delivery that someone still wants it at the other end and I think based on the testimony today in real life experience that has a very narrow set of circumstances and so not only does the accident or incident have to be so minor that the but the cargo is still desired for delivery it also must be in a value that someone is willing to dispatch a second truck and trailer to go get it for delivery and I think that narrows the scope even further so I just want to I guess highlight that particular factors I think that's been lost I don't think that that plays into someone showing up to clean up an accident like I don't if we're saying that people are showing up to clean up an accident because they get paid for cargo that wasn't spilled to me that's conflating two different services and and punishing those that perhaps had the minor accidents to pay for those that had the major accidents which I don't think it's good policy so I just want to highlight that and because our sensations name's been used a lot today I want to come to the table and try to answer any questions that you might have. Reasons for. Thank you Mr I don't know if you have a copy of the bill would respect to I'm looking at page. I guess this pace to the force defining cargo and then here's what it says this is Kagel means goods and materials transported by border area as defined by forty nine C. FOR a section nine three ninety point five as it extended on January first twenty twenty three including without limitation pallets containers bracing. Our polls tie down assemblies and all those securement systems cradles cops in all of the damage or packaging. Yes do you agree that that defines cargo yes ma'am thank you for. Thank you signal question thank you for your testimony we have one more to testify for the bill. Greg Jones. I do. Okay I'm all I guess do you speak against the bill so okay I'm going to allow you just try to be brief if you will. Introduce yourself. I'm can pants on cans towing and Ozark Arkansas I've been in heavy industry my entire life the trucking industry my entire life and also worked as a freight broker for ten years in Fort Smith Arkansas so I have a unique perspective to this. As a truck broker. I never really had any problems with my regular carriers I had my fleet and I took care of Alan caning with on a weekly basis that being said if I had product needed to be at supervalu stores in Atlanta Georgia I'm out of trucks a truck broker will grab any body that they can get to put the load on and we didn't check the insurance certificates to verify the driver was on the policy they had insurance for the cargo they had liability we didn't check it. Now as a wrecker side of this. We work hard. Twenty four seven and you're right some load the cargo we can roll up I'm gonna million dollar rotating and another rotator I can roll up that load and leave it intact on the trailer. But with my training in my investment if they just come pick up the cargo. Where does that leave me it leaves me with a jump Freightliner in a wipeout reefer trailer or if I say the trailer they get the trailer in the cargo I have a jump truck this for thirty five hundred dollars. Just releasing the cargo free of charge is not a fair. Representation of this whole matter here I don't have a problem with the the main trucking companies I do a lot of business for A. B. if fed ex UPS those people are insured. They get the cargo hello there cargo on their trailers and it's on its way and if an insurance company that I deal with on a regular basis and adjust your call this is can they've got coverage I tell him to send me the truck and it is out of there. That's all we're asking for is a fair shake. Thank you. Represent all. Thank you Mr use the word fair a lot of that yes Simone how is it fair to the consumer that their car was being held up and no fault of their own and they're not getting what they paid for I understand that but the broker to put that load on that truck should be held responsible not talking about the program talking about the consumer what you said fair how is it how is it fair to the consumer that paid for the car to be put on that truck House affair then how's it fair to us I guess we're egregious Abigail thank you thank you for your testimony. Okay one more to speak for the bill. Greg Jones. Good morning folks I'm Greg Jones I'm an attorney. I'm from Little Rock us to bear I know well I. And then you have made my point represent our chairman the good seed on this but I'm I'm I'm from Little Rock I'm originally from Van Buren County where years ago my Grandad had one crop we can make money on the bales of cotton. If that thing had had been a wreck going down highway nine. We would have been unheard of bigger. Second tell you from the consumer from the farmer from any perspective this bill has major impacts. I can give you a stump speech today about the instance that I've been involved and I've representative towing companies in the past a representative trucking companies I do that mainly in fact represented acre A. B. F. as one of my desk our clients The Great. What I've heard today is discussions on both sides what you have not heard. Is what remedies exist for a tow company. I'm not picking on the tow companies. They're important part of this overall scheme which is designed to help who the consumers and that's what this bill is about. Now back to the point is about to make what have you heard about the remedies that a towing company has. Haven't heard anything about that. You've heard that they are losing a potential remedy. What you haven't heard is what other remedies to towing companies have above and beyond a possessory lane. Possessory lien like any lien is basically and encumbrance on property in this instance it's mainly in Commons are incumbents of on property owned by who. Trucking company. Not the brokers. Shippers. If and that's who gets impacted by this. I've been involved in what recall replevin actions you've heard that term ruler today some of you may have been involved in some of the past going back forty years. Again represent Baker one of my first ones dealt with a load of pharmaceuticals they got stranded because. Tell operator didn't want to release it. I think that was like four hundred eighty thousand dollars that ended up having to be trashed. I don't think that the tow operator had that in mind. But they had leverage their. What this bill addresses is one element of leverage if you pass this bill is the towing industry left with no remedies. Now they still have a possessory lien on the tractor. They have a possessory lien on the trailer. For non commercial goods and that's what this relation strictly to commercial goods for everyone else they still have their late. But what else can they do they can they can do what back to reverse a chair Holcomb said point you can do what they can harm me or anyone of the other lawyers in this state. To pursue their claim. And that's the way that remedies are normally result in this state. They just are losing potentially one one aero of many in their quivers. I'll tell you this too that the case that are Mr ever talked about he left out one really important fact. In that particular case when his. When his tractor one with the trailer that started on fire when the tractor was removed away was not touched. The tow company have with an armada of tow trucks. Two of which which they build his company for to which position themselves immediately in front of immediately behind the tractor that was on damaged. Ask yourself why did they do that. Leverage. They wanted leverage and guess what they got it. They took custody of that tractor they even called the come the Commission supposedly to get an opinion and the commission apparently told them which is supposed to look out for everyone's interest go ahead and take that tractor even though it's on damaged you have a driver they're capable of driving that you can get it home safely. Mr times are pretty rapidly I'll stop there I'm in favor of the bill for the reasons have been stated today represents program. Thank you Mr chair here Mister Jones okay so once again we were shifting appears to me we're shifting the burden you indicate that the total drivers of can up Institute you call put because of possessor Tory lane is that what you said coming was it well that that's what the bill currently has it has a possessory lien that was enacted in two thousand seven okay so how okay and then you said they can file a replevin action to in order to recover all right that in order to get back the equipment the the trucking company or the owner would file what's known as replevin action and at that time the trucking Purisima tow company can say oh no you got to pay your bill and they can aye aye I've got cases right here what we're trying this I'm trying to determine how this benefits to towing company because if they if that that those kind of actions the file we're talking about time once again. Thirty forty fifty six months cases come to court those usually take as you and I are already know a year eighteen months twenty four months so the and that of towing companies is still stuck the invite if they go through you thank you realize you as a person to assist them that's going to take even longer than the time it that's already been stated here and and here's the flip side of that that's what the the consumers or in this instance the trucking companies have to go through that's their only recourse to hire me do you all want to keep hiring may. The people in the state have to hire me that's that's my point we're still work times I'm still saying we represent eleven would you like to close. Thank you Mr chairman members the committee for your indulgence in your patience this morning as you've heard a lot of testimony just a closing I would just like to but to make two points and I'll be close. I believe three different times the comment was made if the bill is paid then we will release. Let's look at the insurance coverage involved with that. One of the items a testimony was that the insurance policy does not. Mandate or guarantee ace a certain level of towing and recovery insurance is going to meet the needs of the services they provide. So let's think about Mr average testimony. His bill was I believe the state has sixty two thousand dollars. If the truck at the if his towing and recovery coverage of twenty five thousand dollars or they're gonna release if the insurance company said you get twenty five thousand dollars coverage we're gonna send you a check for that day with their release that unit. No because there was still be seventeen thousand dollars left unpaid. We're the cargo value was twenty five thousand what do you think's gonna happen that cargo. That's the collateral. That's the hostage cargo. Secondly I keep hearing the term reasonable compromise I think most of you know. What a reasonable person when it comes to trying to bring people to the table together to be collaborative to solve a problem. But the bond issue that's been floated does not fix the situation. It's a federal issue. We as a state cannot say that we're going to mandate a bond in the state of Arkansas. Perfect example truck picks up a shipment in Missouri come see the state of Arkansas headed to the state of Texas. The manufacturing company which may have owned the cargo is in Missouri the receiver who's going to buy FOB is now the owner of the cargo was in Texas and the truck is based out of some other state none of those parties. applicables Arkansas law is passing through so therefore us saying that that trucking company just because or driving across the state. Would be forced to purchase a bond in order to get that that is not something that we can do is a state. We're talking about federal commerce we're talking about cargo needs to be released when cargo is intact it's a small number of situations everyone of those situations that happen it's very important to the consumers across the state to your constituents involved in shipping receiving manufacturing growing and transporting that Mr I'm closed. Okay thank you Committee you've heard the. The Hokies close. you heard testimony what's will committee. Who's who's. Hope you're recognized. I'm sorry once again. President hawk you're recognized student. Do it again you're on your own there My goal I was just give us a motion to pass for this I have a motion to pass we're not open for discussion. Eleven question representative berry you're recognized thank you Mr chairman and provide like to thank the chairman and the committee for your patience today but also the members that are here to speak for both for and against the this issue and regardless when we leave here today whatever the the outcome of this vote they're still gonna be some issues not everybody's going to be happy and I talked with the our former Attorney General Dustin and make Daniels as well as representative eleven a few minutes ago and and a number of folks in the audience today and I think we're all in agreement that you know what regardless we need to sit down around the table and try to reach some reasonable solution to mitigate some of the challenges that both sides have on this issue and with that being said I'm committed to doing that and I know what representative at the eleven and Dustin McDaniel is and again I want to thank you for your patience and and for educating us on some of the significant challenges that we have both in the towing industry as well as the trucking industry so thank you Mr chairman. Revenge for thank you Mr chair is this of opportunity for me to ask the question we pass questions of course of your you can speak to the bill well I I'd just like to thank everyone for being here I'm going to be a no vote on this because of the issues here that seem to be very confusing and I see a need for persons to get together to in order to try to resolve this I think there's some misunderstanding as to whether or not there's a a bond is necessary for the shipment or whatever but anyway I'm just totally confused about what is taking place here today thank you. You're coming from committee members. Saying nine we have a motion do pass representative Paul all in favor say aye. All opposed say no. It's obvious advise habit bill passes. Thank you Mr chairman thank you Committee. Representative in it. It gives just a minute. Represented in it you're recognized to. Right House Bill fourteen eighty five. You may proceed. Is that good afternoon committee members I'm gonna keep this real brief because I know that to be a session a couple minutes I'm here to run house bill fourteen eighty five. Denise Ennett I representative for district eighty here in downtown parts of Pulaski County. The Supreme Court case brown versus board of education. Made it possible for Ernest many Jean Kerr letter Elisabeth Melba Gloria dama Terrence in Jefferson with the leadership of daisy Bates to integrate the most beautiful school here in America. In nineteen fifty seven November nineteen ninety eight Little Rock Central High became a national historic site authorized by Congress over one point million and counting have visited it Little Rock center high natural national historic site. Today we have some very distinguished Little Rock Central High School tiger alumni here at the capitol governor Huckabee Sanders is one myself Senator Clarke Tucker and as soon to be future Arkansas sports hall of Famer Famers sorry representative Fred Allen. So this is a simple bill house bill fourteen eighty five is just to allow Little Rock center high to get a historic license plate in with that if anybody have any questions I'd be happy to answer it. Representative Shepherd. Motion at the proper time. Okay any other questions. Is there anybody here to speak for the bill. Against the bill. Any comments from the Committee. Representative McCollum. Script bill thanks for bringing up for today happy to support it thank you committee members. I'm supposed. All right we have a motion all in favor say aren't. We have a motion. Yep read most. All opposed say nay. Congratulations okay real quick within one more representative Beck. I'm sorry your committee. Okay to report a spill H. the sixteen twenty one. May proceed. representative Rick Beck district forty three. Right now we have a we have a speed trap law basically won the coupon to the speed trap law says this that if the revenues that you receive from your from tickets violations speeding tickets is too close to the expenditure of your city. Then you can be called the speed trap when you lose the ability to write tickets right now good law it's a great law or is only one problem with that they included in the the the fees for that speeding tickets late fees. Use myself as example I get a ticket I don't show up for three or four years I have all kinds of failure to appear courts in all kinds of extra costs added on it could be as much as four thousand dollars on what would have been a two hundred dollar ticket I come in hi my fees ventrally right when I do that if I'm a small city I just put that city in a situation where they're now considered speed trap and I can't write tickets. So all it says is just takes that lake yeah still puts the fees under just like you the the bill stays exactly the same still puts a face because you gotta remember the city it can't. Yeah you put your the city is not responsible for me I can't when I held back I'm the one the pullover not been writing tickets and that's all this thing does is it just takes about says okay you still calculated just what you did but you can't do court fees and late fees against the city because they had no control over that okay revenue we talking about I just I know it varies from each but in in a small city in a small city it could be a couple thousand dollars so so when I go through rock port now from home this is not going to get me a ticket just like to use to if you were going through one mile hour over right there there's there's actually another there's actually not I'd bring it up but there's another section the call that handles that it's the same thing but like if they're writing a lot of tickets that are like five miles an hour over water like that that that stays just a sign okay any questions from committee. Sing ninety will close I'm close from a bill what's thank you guys for staying what. I have a motion to pass from represent managers in discussion all in favor say aye. Bill pass graduations we stand adjourned. So would. The ticket wrong. I got.