House Education Committee
Video
Transcript
Bills discussed (7)
| Bill | Title | Sponsor | Status |
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HB1076
· 3 mentions in chapter, transcript
Matched: “HB1076”
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Pre-2017 bill | ||
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SB148
· 3 mentions in chapter, transcript
Matched: “SB148”
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Pre-2017 bill | ||
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HB1243
· 2 mentions in transcript
Matched: “…otion passes. Representative Charlie Collins wants to place House Bill 1243 also as a special order of business for Tuesday the 12th.”
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Pre-2017 bill | ||
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SB93
· 2 mentions in chapter, transcript
Matched: “SB93”
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Pre-2017 bill | ||
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HB1181
· 1 mention in transcript
Matched: “…need a motion. Representative Ratliff has a motion to place House Bill 1181 on special order. All in favor? All opposed? Motion passes.…”
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Pre-2017 bill | ||
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HB1244
· 1 mention in chapter
Matched: “HB1244”
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Pre-2017 bill | ||
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SB1181
· 1 mention in transcript
Matched: “Representative Kim Hammer wants to place Senate Bill 1181 as a special order of business for this Thursday, the 7th.…”
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Pre-2017 bill |
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Before we get started today, committee, just a few housekeeping items. I'd like to remind everybody who's here today, if you want to speak on a bill or are testifying in regard to an issue, if you would please sign in over at the desk and print your name there so we'll have a record of that. Also, committee, we have a couple things we need to take some action on.
Representative Kim Hammer wants to place Senate Bill 1181 as a special order of business for this Thursday, the 7th. I need a motion. Representative Ratliff has a motion to place House Bill 1181 on special order. All in favor? All opposed? Motion passes. Representative Charlie Collins wants to place House Bill 1243 also as a special order of business for Tuesday the 12th.
That will be a week from today. I need a motion. So move Representative Cozart. We have a motion to place House Bill 1243 as a special order of business for Tuesday the 12th. All in favor? Aye. All opposed? Motion passes. Also, as an attempt to try to bring in folks from across the state who are involved in education, who have unique perspectives on education, or who have, you know, very important opinions, we are going to bring in Mr. Paul Leopolis of the Thea Foundation, who also
is part of Arkansas A+, which is an arts enrichment program in the schools. And they've had great success in Oklahoma. We're trying to duplicate that success in Arkansas. He's going to come Thursday and speak to us from 10 to 10.15, and then we will go into our regular agenda at that point in time. Okay, all of our housekeeping is completed. At this time, we are going to go into our regular agenda. We are going to take up our Senate bills first as a courtesy,
and first on the agenda is Senator Chesterfield, Senate Bill 93. Senator
Chesterfield, you are recognized to present your bill, ma'am. Thank you, Mr.
Senator Linda Chesterfield
Unverified
2:26
Chair, ladies and gentlemen of the committee. It's a very simple bill in
that it requires a study of the readiness and capabilities of public schools in this state for adequately preventing and responding to acts of violence against students and school personnel on the school campus.
individuals wondered why we didn't just proceed with suggesting legislation that would make all of this possible we don't know what our schools need and who better to determine what our schools need than our schools and so i thought it was imperative then that we study the needs of them i think it's already begun in fort smith which i think is a step in the right direction but it's a bill that allows us to begin to look at very closely what our school districts need to do what would be best for our children so that we can better protect them in case there is
violence. I think people remember Nettleton, or maybe 1998 is not as clear with you, but there was a study that was conducted talking about prevention, awareness, and intervention. But we've since gotten away from that, and perhaps we need to look at what our school districts need, and I would appreciate a good vote so that they can tell us what they would need to do and what we, as a state, could help them to
do in order to better protect the children. Thank you. I'd
Speaker 5
3:43
appreciate a good vote. MR. Thank you very much for that explanation, Senator Chesterfield.
Do we have any questions from
Chair
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3:51
the committee for Senator Chesterfield? If not, Representative Lowry, you're recognized, sir. MR. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Senator Chesterfield, I noticed in the legislation that you referenced that the report would be submitted to the House Education Committee. Is there any potential for this being a joint effort in terms of the actual study itself rather
Representative Mark Lowery
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4:14
than us being a body that is reported to?
Senator Linda Chesterfield
Unverified
4:19
Well, I was somewhat taken aback by the fact that my bill did not include both the Senate and the House, which was the intent. And so I was going to tell you straight up that that is a concern of mine, but I wanted to run it by you first and assure you that that was not my intent to leave the House out of that. And I would not, but I did want to present the proposal to you today, and perhaps I can ask the chair if it is possible to have an oral amendment that would add in line 27 after Senate Committee on Education and House Committee on Education, and I'm not sure that that's proper at this time, and then take it back to the Senate for another vote.
Regretfully, Senator Chesterfield, I've been informed by staff that that is not an option. So
Senator Linda Chesterfield
Unverified
5:05
we will do that and perhaps take it back to the Senate and add that. Or if we could get a good vote on this, then I can assure you that it will be amended on the Senate
Speaker 15
5:17
end. Yes, ma'am. Representative Larry. I assume then it would be proper for us to offer an amendment, as she has suggested, and then if it were to pass, the Senate could concur with the amendment. Yes, sir. You know, I'd
Senator Linda Chesterfield
Unverified
5:30
ask our distinguished chair if he would take care of that for us.
Yes, ma'am. On the floor of the Senate, if we could get a good vote out of here, I can assure you that this was an oversight, and it's just coming to my attention. There was no intention, having been a member of this committee, believe me, I know how important the House Education Committee is. Senator
Chesterfield, I believe what we're going to have to do in order to get this rectified is for you to pull
your bill down. That's fine. Okay, so if we're just going to go ahead and pull your bill down. but we will get it corrected
Senator Linda Chesterfield
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6:02
and make sure that so what is that what is the
proper procedure on this end is to get someone to present an amendment to the bill and then bring it back to you guys for amendment is that correct yes ma'am all right thank you and I'll be happy to work with the chair or with whomever in order to get that done represent a
Representative Mark Biviano
Unverified
6:22
big on you have a question I may suggest a compromise I have every bit of confidence and belief in Senator Chesterfield at her word and I guess to avoid further bureaucracy and delay I would suggest that we move forward and vote on this bill thank you mr. Bibiano and it could
be amended on the floor of the house if that's the will of the committee of course we
can we can absolutely do that thank goodness for mark we can't do that so what we're going to do is we're going to have a senator Chesterfield to pull her bill down. We're
Speaker 10
6:58
going to get it fixed. MS. All right, Mark. I'm going to have to talk to you. MS. I keep saying thank
good for Mark, but I don't know. MR. The path of least resistance that accomplishes what Senator Chesterfield wants to have done
is to pull the bill down, and then we'll get it fixed and amended properly so she can have it go to the House floor and take care of it. MS. All right. And
Senator Linda Chesterfield
Unverified
7:19
I work with Ms. Viviano, if he would be so gracious as to work with me on getting this amendment mended and then brought it back to you guys for the vote on the amendment et cetera et
Speaker 15
7:29
cetera or Mr. Lowry or her member. I think she has three marks that she wants to come
Speaker 35
7:34
after, mark, mark, and mark. All right, man. I
think Representative Viviano and Representative Lowry will be more than happy to help you guide
and shepherd this bill back through the
Senator Linda Chesterfield
Unverified
7:43
House. Thank you, gentlemen, so much, and thank you, ladies, as well.
I appreciate it. Thank you very much. Thank you, Senator Chesterfield. Okay, committee, we're going to go ahead and take up Senate Bill 148, and I believe that Representative Hopper, are you going to take care of this bill for Senator
Key, ma'am? Very well. Representative Hopper, you
Chair
Unverified
8:13
are recognized to present Senate Bill 148.
Representative Karen S. Hopper
Unverified
8:17
48. Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee. Moments ago, I was asked to present this, and I'm honored to do that on behalf of Senator Key, and hopefully you've had an opportunity to review this. It is a simple bill indeed. It is four lines long, I believe, and it simply repeals the free railroad transportation for the College of Agri, and I think it speaks for itself, and I
appreciate a good vote magnificent job representative hopper do we have any questions for
representative hopper representative linderman you're recognized representative
hopper do you just have something against agriculture or what
other entities or universities or anything that do receive this or is the College of Ag the only one that receives this representative
Representative Karen S. Hopper
Unverified
9:15
Linderman my apologies but the extent of my knowledge on this bill I have just expressed unfortunately so but if we need to get that answered for you we'll
Speaker 52
9:26
be happy to do so I can get that answer okay I'm sorry that's that's my to put you on the spot
that's quite a positive vote for me thank you sir thank you mr. chair thank you representative Linderman
do we have any other questions for representative Hopper if not do we have anybody in the audience who wishes to speak against this bill. Anybody who wishes to speak for the bill? If not, what is the pleasure of the committee? Representative Linderman, we have a
motion to pass. All in favor? All opposed?
Motion passes. Thank you very much, Representative Hopper. I thank you, Mr. Chair, and the committee. Okay. It is exactly 10-15. We are absolutely on schedule. At
this point, we are going to recognize That's our special order of business, House Bill 1076. Representative
Ratliff. Representative Ratliff, you're recognized to present your bill.
Representative James Ratliff
Unverified
10:30
Okay, folks. I've got House Bill 1076. It's a small bill. Don't do
a whole lot. You know, you've heard that story before. All this bill is going to do is these rural Arkansas out here guys is getting ruler and ruler, and these schools are getting smaller and smaller. And every school system has homeschoolers in it. And in our systems out here, our homeschoolers are accountable to the schools also.
They have to go to the co-op and take tests. They have to go do all the things they have to do to equal them to do that. And by the way, I do have support of the homeschoolers 100% on this bill. What this will do, when they get down to 350, the administrative consolidation, it would allow the schools to count their homeschoolers at that point in number only. There is no fiscal impact due to there's no money involved in this bill. So all this thing is going to do is allow rural school to shift the burden from the state
over to the school district. It's up to the school district to fund those kids at $6,200 or $6,300 apiece at that point. So that's basically what this bill is going to do. It's going to shift it from the state back to the school district. And that's what I want everybody to realize. The state folks won't have to go in there and say, you're done, and go from there. And the school district will have to give up at that point when they
Speaker 63
12:06
get to a point they can't fund it. Okay. Any questions?
Representative Ratliff, do you have anything else to add in regard to your bill, sir? No,
Speaker 35
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sir. That's it at this time. Okay. Thank
you very much. Questions from the committee? Representative Hobbs. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Representative Debra M. Hobbs
Unverified
12:25
Representative Ratliff, if these numbers are figured with the
ADM, does that mean foundational funding will also follow? No, ma'am. There's no funding at all in this bill. Does that need to be spelled out in the bill, or?
It's in the bill. It says that no funding will follow?
Speaker 69
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No funding will follow. Okay. I guess I
Speaker 15
12:51
overlooked it. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Representative Lowry. Just as a
Chair
Unverified
12:56
follow-up on that question, so the average daily attendance, that is not used in setting funding
Representative James Ratliff
Unverified
13:00
formula? It is. But what we do on average daily attendance at the end, when you get to, say, you're at 340, you add the homeschoolers to that to get the final number.
Chair
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13:12
Okay. And they don't count in the funding form?
Chair
Unverified
13:19
the funding form. Follow up, Mr. Chairman. Is there any, of course, we have the situation of the Tebow rule, the association, where homeschool students are participating in athletics and activities. Are the districts in any way interested in receiving funding for those? Yes, they get,
Representative James Ratliff
Unverified
13:34
like, if a student comes in and takes algebra and stays one period a day, if it's eight period a day, they get one-eighth for that student.
Or if they come in and play sports, they get one, you know, whatever
Chair
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13:49
the class periods are that day. Okay.
And nothing in this prevents them from doing it? No, no, that stays
the same. Okay, thank you. Do we
have any other questions? Representative Lindeman, and then Representative Cozart. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Representative Ratliff, trying to wrap my mind around this a little bit, how would this determination or this calculation of student attendance affect things like federal funding, free lunch programs, graduation rates,
Representative James Ratliff
Unverified
14:21
those kind of things? Well, the way I understand that, when you're a homeschooler, I don't know if the school gets credit for those when they graduate or not, but in federal funding, it wouldn't be on your average daily
attendance. It wouldn't affect that at all. What about graduation rates and those things, the way they're calculated? Would we have to designate these students in some type of a different way?
Representative James Ratliff
Unverified
14:53
I wish we could. That would probably improve the graduation rates for all the school
Speaker 80
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districts. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Ratliff. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Representative Cozart. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Representative Ratliff,
Representative Bruce Cozart
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15:06
I don't see anything in this bill about funding, so are we positive it does not affect any funding at all? Yes. There's no
Representative James Ratliff
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15:13
funding attached to it at all. Okay. No physical impact at all for the state at all. Okay. Thank
Representative Bruce Cozart
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15:18
you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Representative Deffenbaugh.
Representative Gary Deffenbaugh
Unverified
15:26
Representative, I guess I'm kind of asking the same question that Mr. Cozart just asked, but this doesn't affect the average daily attendance? No. What we
Representative James Ratliff
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15:38
do is on this 350, you take your average daily attendance and say if
Speaker 64
15:45
you've got 360, you're above 350. But if you've got 348, what this bill would do, If you've got 30 homeschoolers, then your actual number would go up to, like, 378,
which you'd only be funded for 348.
Representative Mark Biviano
Unverified
16:11
Okay. Thanks. Representative Bibiano. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Representative Ratliff, why do you think that when the original 350 number was set that at that point the homeschoolers were not included in that total?
Representative James Ratliff
Unverified
16:22
So I guess back when they said that in the Lakeview case that, you know, they may have overlooked that or something along that line,
or they may have meant to not include the homeschoolers. I don't know. So
Representative Mark Biviano
Unverified
16:35
what's the position of the Department of Education on this bill? Oh, I think
they're going to be against the bill. Are we going to hear from them? Yeah, we have a
Speaker 94
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representative from the attorney general's office who
will be speaking momentarily. Okay, thank you. Representative Linderman? Thank you, Mr. Chair. Representative Ratliff, I'm trying to understand a little bit more of this. Homeschool students now, are they required to submit information to the school districts in which they reside?
Yes, sir. Okay. Do any of those students that are homeschool students participate in what we know as school choice to – are homeschool students required to register in the district that they live in? They just register in
the district they live in. They just registered in the district they live in. Okay. Do you have specific instances of schools that this would positively impact, and if so, what kind of numbers? Oh, it's going to
Representative James Ratliff
Unverified
17:40
There's one school in my district that's got like 364 right now. And, you know, the job situation, the economic impact in our area, That could drop below 350, and then they would be into the school consolidation point at that area. And this district's already 300 square miles. They've already got kids riding the bus two hours and 15 minutes a day. It's a pretty serious situation. Do you
know how many homeschool students reside in that district?
I think 40. 40, so that would bump them up to 404 or whatever for
Speaker 76
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their attendance. For just administrative consolidation purposes. Okay.
All right. Thank you. Thank
Chair
Unverified
18:30
you, Mr. Chair. Representative Douglas. I know in our area I see a trend toward, and maybe you
Speaker 100
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have this information, toward more and more homeschool students taking advantage of our public schools in one way or another.
Yes. Not just the Tim Tebow, but like you said, coming in and taking an AP class or band. Yes. Some of those things that are pretty specialized. And the trend that is going that way, I see that as, you know, this as an opportunity for us to have a great partnership and possibly to draw some of those that are homeschooled back into the public school by developing a partnership with, you know, with those homeschool parents.
So a way to out, you know, to reach out to them through, you know, through
Speaker 64
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what you've put out here. Yes, ma'am. It would work. And all the homeschooler groups are
Representative Gary Deffenbaugh
Unverified
19:35
not against this bill at all. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Representative
Deffenbaugh. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Representative, if, let's see, I think Mr. Lenderman quoted, let's say we added 44 to the district, made it 404 anyway.
If that number goes, if those homeschoolers, let's say there's 40 of them, and those homeschoolers, you know, are counted to make this school district above 350, But what kind of accountability is there for homeschoolers? Because all homeschoolers, they're supposed to be accountable, but they're not. I mean, nobody goes and chases them down. If the school district that they're from, if these youngsters don't take the test, nobody goes and chases them down.
So is there going to be more accountability to these people
Representative James Ratliff
Unverified
20:28
being counted? I think so, in my opinion. And where we're from, the co-op tests those kids, and they do the intercourse test. They do all the same tests all the other kids do, and their scores are added in to the public school to get their final scores. Thanks. Appreciate it.
Do we have any other questions for Representative Ratliff? Okay. If not, at this point, do we have anybody in the audience who wishes to speak against the bill?
And I believe that we do. Mr. Richardson, are you here? Mr. Scott Richardson with the Attorney General's Office. He needs no introduction, but if you would be so kind
Speaker 107
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as to introduce yourself to the committee. Certainly. And you are recognized. Scott Richardson with the Attorney General's Office. These are bills that deal with the 350 consolidation number come up every session, and I think every time I've come to the table to speak, So, nothing against Representative Ratliff, but this is a core adequacy issue, and it's
something that the committee must take very seriously if it's going to look at changing the consolidation number. Representative Ratliff said that his bill would shift the burden from the state to the school district. With regard to adequacy, the Supreme Court has explained the Constitution does not allow that. It is ultimately the state's obligation to ensure that it's providing an adequate level of funding to the school district so they can educate the children that are there attending classes in the school district the 350 number as I explained a
few days ago is was a compromise number on because we thought we fund schools on a per student basis you have to have a certain number of students there so that you can have enough revenue to support all the services and programs that go on in the school district that are related to adequacy and the determination in 2004 was that as school districts fall below the prototypical school on which
we fund which is 500 students then those school districts are losing money and losing the ability to fund adequacy of services to those students and 350 was settled on as the point below which that funding should not fall below and there are often questions about what that number 350 represents if you take the the 500 school student school district is essentially two elementary class
classes per grade and then one middle school one high school class per grade and that has to do with the maximum number of students you can have in each of those classes and the maximum number is smaller for elementary so they they did it for two elementary schools 350 is the number you get if you take away one of those elementary classes and you have one class per grade at the elementary level one class per grade at the middle level and then one class per grade at the high school level and so the formula works to provide that 350 school
district the funds that needs to staff each one of those classes as you fall below 350 the school district loses foundation funding and loses the ability to fund each one of those classrooms now representing Ratliff said that his there are roughly 40 homeschool students in this district if if we take that number 40 then before the school district would be consolidated you would have down to 310 students in that school district and you're counting 40
students that the district is not getting paid for they're not receiving funding for those students and so the the school district is not able to put on the full the full programs and services many times people bring up that these small school districts are performing well they like their small classroom sizes it's it's been my impression I've argued this in courts before that the number is designed to catch those school districts before they start failing which I think is what the state should be focused on before
schools start failing we need interventions so that those students don't suffer in the interim from when funding falls below an acceptable level below 350 and when the law kicks in to help them out to help get that funding back up for them so that they have the resources available now the adequacy study that the interim committees performed did not recommend any change to the 350 number. So you have, and representing Ratliff's
bill is the only one I've seen so far this session. There may be others, but for each one you would have to deal with that fact, that the adequacy study recommended no change in the 350 number, but now you're going to have a change to that 350 number. You can't just do that. You have to have evidence-based reasons for doing that, and you have to have some sort of study of how you're going to meet adequacy for that school district that falls below 350, and that's not provided here.
So one of the things that Representative Ratliff has argued is the strength of his bill that doesn't cost the state more money is a constitutional weakness for the bill, because what that means is the school district is going to fall below what the General Assembly has determined is an adequate level of resources minimal adequate level of elite resources for these school districts but it's not going to provide any additional revenue for them for that school district to meet those obligations consolidation came up in the Lakeview school district
In the Lakeview case, and the Supreme Court looked at it pretty heavily in its 2004 opinion, I want to give you a little bit of language straight from the court that shows that the court was very concerned about the consolidation number as it relates to the constitutional duty to provide an efficient education as well as an adequate education. And I'll just read you a little bit from the opinion. They said consolidation of school districts was not expressly referenced in the prior opinion.
Nevertheless, an efficient education is what Article 14, Section 1 of the Arkansas Constitution requires, which begs the question of whether this state can ever offer an adequate and substantially equal education to all its children without effective consolidation. I'm going to skip down a little bit. And what they conclude with in this section that is specifically addresses consolidation because, as you remember, that was a contested issue in Lakeview. The General Assembly settled on 350. Some people thought it should be 500.
Governor Huckabee thought it should be 1,500. And what the Supreme Court said is it wasn't going to dictate a specific number. It wanted to leave that determination to the executive and legislative branches. But they said what is radiantly clear, however, is that if an adequate curriculum, adequate facilities, and adequate equipment cannot be afforded to the schoolchildren and the smaller school districts of this state due to lack of sufficient economic resources, more efficient measures to afford that adequacy will be inevitable. So there's a pretty strong warning in the Lakeview case that this consolidation number
is very important, it's directly related to adequacy, and any changes to it need to be supported by evidence-based study and a determination of what the adequate level, whether or not adequacy in resources for these students can be maintained and what the state would need to do to help students in a district like what Representative Ratliff is proposing that goes below 350, what funding is necessary to keep an adequate level of resources there.
With that, I'll take any questions. Mr. Richardson, in terms of liability to the
state, does this kind of open the door to that? Does this potentially put us in a situation where we could
Speaker 107
29:04
be liable? Certainly. And an obvious plaintiff in that would be other school districts who have been consolidated since this bill was passed. I'm sure they would have concerns about another school district who didn't face the same standards that they faced.
So you would not be surprised if this issue made its way through the legislature? We'd be looking at lawsuits day one, potentially. Yes, it's a very clear issue.
Speaker 107
29:34
It wouldn't be a difficult issue for a plan to make. So a lawsuit would be pretty – I would anticipate one, yes.
Speaker 48
29:44
Okay. Representative Linderman. Thank you, Mr.
Chair. you did a little math there too about the 40 homeschool students and the school could drop
down to as low as 310 in that scenario how much does the state send now per student to each school district um you may have to give me a ballpark
two hundred sixty seven dollars okay sixty two hundred dollars per student forty students we're talking about About $250,000, roughly, that the school would lose in what we would consider now to be adequate funding to fund that.
That's probably six teacher salaries, probably, in that school district. Yeah, probably in that range. Okay. So your opinion is that the school could not continue to operate in an efficient manner with that kind of a loss
Speaker 107
30:44
in funding. Right. And my opinion is also that without lowering the consolidation number, without also accounting for the resources available to those students would violate adequacy. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Just for clarification, Mr. Richardson, schools are compensated on a prorated basis
for homeschoolers if they are involved in activities at a particular school. you may have talked to the department about the
Speaker 107
31:13
details of that my understanding is that relates to the activities but not the classroom funding just for clarification for
Chair
Unverified
31:22
the committee Representative Lowry you have a question sir yes thank you Mr. Chairman in your citing of the Supreme Court's ruling
or their language on Lakeview they specifically avoid discussing the issue of student population correct Yes. They're talking about resources. So in addition to this, in terms of adequacy, they're talking about resources that would be available. Right. They didn't specify a number. They didn't
Speaker 107
31:50
want to weigh in on what the number should be. They wanted to leave that to the legislature for an evidence-based study of what the number should be. Okay.
Speaker 15
32:02
One education ranking says that the state of Arkansas is ranked number
Chair
Unverified
32:06
six in the nation for, or they didn't use these words, but best bang for the buck, that we get the most education out of less dollars. And if that study is true, would that not be a justification that there is adequacy and that it has nothing to do
Speaker 107
32:23
with a specific dollar amount? Well, I think if you're referring to the Education Week Quality Counts Study, we were fifth in the nation this year for standards. But some of the areas, one area in particular that we ranked low on
was the the dollars that are sent per student excuse me
Speaker 128
32:45
representative larry you're recognized yeah I'm
Chair
Unverified
32:47
sorry just one more follow-up but it is true that there are other states that spend that send less per student back to their school districts and they were able to operate under
Speaker 107
33:01
adequacy correct if if the legislator wanted to change the 350 number that's certainly something that
could be looked at as part of an evidence-based study and how that might interact with the amount of resources that are there the problem we have right now though is we don't have that kind of an evidence-based study we don't have something that you know if we got sued on the number and parents were saying you aren't providing my kid adequate level of resources and you can't show me your math then there's nothing that I can bring forward at this point to say well here's
the evidence that the legislature looked at to determine that yes even though homeschool you know 50 homeschool students would be counting this number that the school district could still provide adequate level of education on resources for 300 students. But would we not want to at least set
Speaker 130
33:55
a precedent that adequacy is based on the different number other than dollars spent? MR. I think the place
Speaker 107
34:04
to do that is in the adequacy study. MR.
Okay. Thank you. MR. And, Representative Lowry, for the next two years, we are going
to have very in-depth discussions about adequacy. And as I said in our previous meetings, this, the adequacy Lakeview issue, as an example here today, shades everything that we do. So, yeah, we're going to be talking about this a lot. Representative Biviano, you have a question, sir? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Representative Mark Biviano
Unverified
34:39
Do you know back when the 350 number was set in the discussion,
did it include any discussion about including homeschoolers in that number at that time?
Speaker 107
34:50
No, I don't believe so because the state doesn't provide resources to school district, doesn't provide funding to school districts based on the number of homeschooled students. So
Representative Mark Biviano
Unverified
34:59
there was no debate for or against, if you recall? I
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don't recall whether or not it was raised, but I wouldn't think so because unless you're providing funding based on those students, there's not much of a reason to include them in the number.
Chair
Unverified
35:17
Thank you. Representative Douglas. what would change about the liability for the school system if we just allow the schools to count the students that are coming on campus already in other words we've got homeschoolers that are coming on for speech therapy for athletics for other specialized services services, and I've never heard of a problem with the liability to this point in time.
How would that liability change suddenly if we said we could count those in your enrollment numbers instead of just offer them
Speaker 107
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services? Well, for things like speech therapy and disability services, those students do receive funding under the IDEA, and the Individuals with Disabilities in Education Act puts a requirement on all school districts to identify any and all students in the district that have disabilities so so they do get compensated for those services and a problem with the level of those that funding would need to be
taken up with the federal government I think the problem here is you're taking a number that's focused on classroom resources and lowering the amount of funding provided for those classroom resources without covering that you know you're you're counting students that don't bring any resources into the school district to cover what goes on in the classroom and allowing the funding level to drop below what the General Assembly is determined to be adequate
without without any evidence-based study without any attempt to try and bring those resources back up to what's an adequate level. Another question, can
Chair
Unverified
37:08
I continue? Absolutely. Yes, ma'am. My question wasn't on the funding, it was on the liability. Those students are coming
Speaker 100
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on campus now and we have not had trouble with, you know, I thought you were talking about a while ago we would be responsible in other ways for
them besides just the funding and some of these schools that would be at the 350 mark are going to have room in their classes they're not going to have to hire new teachers they won't have to have new bus drivers those you know those numbers would fit within the services that they're already probably providing
Speaker 107
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to the students that they have but the the i think the problem is the opposite You know, would the school district have enough revenue to support a classroom teacher when we're counting students that aren't in that classroom?
So the students that are actually in that classroom, are they still getting an adequate level of resources for that classroom? And I, you know, we don't have an answer
Chair
Unverified
38:18
from that. classroom that has 20 in it and you're able to count two more homeschoolers I don't see
Speaker 100
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a change in financial expenditure if you okay if that
Speaker 107
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classroom maintains 20 students and we're going to act like there are two more students there but we're not going to provide funding for them but we know But
Speaker 100
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those students are not there, so we don't need the funding.
Speaker 107
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Well, you still have those 20 students that you have to provide that classroom teacher for. We know that the number of students in that school district are declining. So those students in that classroom are losing revenue, and those two students aren't helping to fund that teacher.
At what point does that classroom, is the school district no longer able to provide that teacher for that classroom or the next classroom for those students. Since we don't have an evidence-based study, we don't have an answer to that question. Right. That's the adequacy problem. And so then those students could say, you're failing to provide me an adequate level of resources in my classroom because now my teacher doesn't have, maybe you're paying for my teacher, but you're not able to pay for any of my other resources that I need in that classroom.
As compared to other places in the state, that do have adequate and equitable resources, and that's – therein lies the rub. We get under the 350 mark, let's say 330 students, but we have 20 homeschoolers that utilize services at some point during the day, and the schools are being compensated on a pro rata basis. That is where our problem is, and that is where the adequacy issue comes into play,
and that is where we get very smart attorneys suing the state. So do
we have any other questions? I think the vice chair wanted to. Are you okay? Okay. Mr. Richardson, thank you very much for your presentation. We have Mr. Greg
Crabtree here, who is with the Hillcrest School District. Mr. Crabtree, you are recognized, and Mr. Crabtree will be speaking for the bill.
Greg Crabtree
Unverified
40:43
You're recognized, sir. Thank you. My name is Greg Crabtree, and I'm superintendent of the Hillcrest School District. The Hillcrest School District is spread out over 300 square miles in beautiful northeast Arkansas. Currently, we have 371 students as of yesterday afternoon. We watched that closely. We have been as low as 360 this calendar year. Some of the uniqueness of our district, and the first question we always get is, where is Hillcrest?
I'm a third-generation Hillcrest graduate. Strawberry, Lynn, Paukeepsie, portions of Williford comprise the Hillcrest School District. We have been through two consolidations. Part of the Twin Rivers District, the Williford portion, is with us now. We have students in the northern part of our district that gets on the bus at 6.15 a.m. They ride the bus, gravel roads.
If you've ever been in Sharp County, you can sympathize with that. They get to the high school campus at Strawberry, which is the closest. They get on another bus and ride another 10 minutes to the Lynn campus, the elementary. So they spend the better part of two and a half hours of their day on a bus. every day and one thing that has changed since Act 60 is the size of our school districts the location hasn't changed the highway structure hasn't changed and I understand the points on
adequacy but I think as a state we have to progress in our thinking you know instead of 100 square miles in rural arkansas you're talking about 300 square miles and just to give you a little history 15 years ago i was coaching high school basketball there were 10 schools in our athletic conference only one of those are standalone districts at this time so homeschool students we have some wonderful homeschool students that take advantage of our programs
we have roughly 50 percent of homeschool students come back and forth to the district we're responsible for test scores on their students the tebow bill you all know that how that changed so homeschool is playing a much larger part since act 60 and we have Basically, 90% of our academic facilities are 10 years or newer, brand new, basically.
We've never been in fiscal distress. We've never been in academic distress. Of course, we've never been in facility distress. And our patrons, we talked about once you get below 350. I can't speak for each individual one, but I know the passion in this small community. When there's a need, they've always stepped up to the plate, whether that's a millage increase to build a building, to fund teachers.
I think what that would do would shift the responsibility from you if this bill was to pass to the local patrons. And, yes, at some point, financially, it would become an adequacy issue. But I don't know that we know exactly what that point is. The 350 number is the information you have, and I respect that. But I'm also asking you, please, these homeschool students, we have 39, in case you're wondering, in our district.
As of yesterday at 315, we watched that closely, too. we're asking them for a chance to get before the floor of the house and pursue this and just give us a chance that's all we're asking and I'll be glad to answer any questions committee do we have any
questions for Mr. Crabtree seeing none Mr. Crabtree thank you very very much for coming all the way up here today
thank you for your time Okay, committee, we have Mr. Rich Nagel with the AEA who will be
speaking against the bill. Mr. Nagel, thank you for being here
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today, and you are recognized. MR. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm Rich Nagel with the Arkansas Education Association, and I won't restate all of the arguments that Scott Richardson went through on behalf of the Attorney
General's office we agree basically with all of those arguments we were strong supporters of the Lakeview and other plaintiff school districts in the litigation all the way through it and we have a strong commitment to see that that those decisions of the Supreme Court are not weakened. So just to argue maybe from another perspective, 40 homeschool students was given as an example
in this particular instance, but I think you have to recognize that that's just one example of what could occur under this bill. It could be 50 homeschool students. It could be 60 homeschool students. It could be 150 homeschool students, because I think there's probably near 12,000 homeschool students within the state. So if you take that many students away from the school district for funding purposes,
what's left? Theoretically, you could have 349 homeschool students and only one student left in the school district, the way the bill is structured at the present time, and they would receive $6,276 for that one student, and I don't think that we would be saying that there's an adequate educational program being offered in that situation.
School districts that are at 350 or even a little above that, they struggle every day to offer the quality of education that is required under Arkansas's constitution. And they have a very, very difficult path. And I understand the need to want to keep small schools. They're the hub of many small communities.
But I don't think this is the vehicle by which to keep smaller school districts in a good financial situation. And I don't believe that it's in the best interest of the children who are in there. We have to think of not just the survival of the school district, but you have to think of the quality of education that's going to be provided for those students that are there. So it's for those reasons that we reluctantly speak against the bill of our good friend Representative Ratliff.
Thank you. MR. Thank you very much, Mr. Nagel. Do we have any questions from the committee? If not, thank you for your time. Thank you for being here today. We have Ms. Dana
Higdon from the Mulberry-Pleasant View School District, who is here to speak for the bill. Ms. Higdon, thank you for coming today, and you are recognized to speak
Speaker 148
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for the bill. Thank you. Good morning. As he said, I am Dana Higdon, Superintendent of the Mulberry-Pleasant View School District.
I would like to begin by thanking you all for your service and your interest in education in the state of Arkansas, I would also like to thank you for the opportunity of being allowed to speak today and ask for your support of this bill. Keeping students in school is always our focus. Through education, we create the opportunity for students to become productive citizens, which creates the opportunity for success for the entire state.
The Mulberry-Pleasant View School District is one of 35 districts in the state recently designated as an achieving district by the new accountability system. We are prepared to provide any classes or services to the students who are homeschooled in our district. And if we were allowed to count those homeschooled students toward the required 350, it would help our district to be able to continue to aid students to become productive citizens.
We continue to reach out to those families to encourage them to bring their students to public school for any classes or special services that they may desire or need as we feel that public school is the best place for most students to receive the necessary education to become productive students recently our district did contact 27 homes households in the district with the potential of reaching 48 home
schooled students that have legally filed home school through our district so that's
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what I have to add thank you miss Higdon thank you very much committee do we have
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any questions representative Talley I was just curious what is your number right now as
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far as we through the entire school year have bounced
Speaker 148
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back and forth above and below 350 just two or three above two or three under representative hobs thank you mr. chair did you say
Speaker 153
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that you visited the home school i contacted them by mail okay so you didn't do
Representative Debra M. Hobbs
Unverified
51:03
i did not go to their home so are you attempting to recruit these students in
Speaker 148
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what kind of response have you received? Some have shown interest. Children, students, families with students 10th, 11th, and 12th grade are interested in advanced placement classes. And the potential to participate in athletics is always a draw for them. And then the younger children, if they're not involved in a real strong homeschool program, they are interested.
elementary-age children are interested in the music, art, physical education, and those things that they may not get through their organization. And
Representative Debra M. Hobbs
Unverified
51:44
were they, did they give you the reasons why they are choosing homeschooling over the public school? It seems to
Speaker 150
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be most of them for religious reasons.
Speaker 148
51:53
Okay, thank you. Thank you, Ms. Chair. Thank you. Representative Catlett. Thank you, Ms. Chair.
Representative John Catlett
Unverified
52:04
Thank you for being here, ma'am.
My question is, okay, if we allow these numbers to go up, let's say you're at $350, we say give you 25 more, you know, you're $375. Okay, the funding, from what I understand, it doesn't follow the students. I mean, you've got 25 additional students with no funding. Right. Do you have to hire the teachers for $375 kids?
Speaker 47
52:28
Where we are right now, my estimations are we could absorb those if they fell into the right areas. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you, Representative Catlett. Representative Lowry, you're recognized, sir. Yes. Thank
Chair
Unverified
52:42
you, Mr. Chair. The proactive effort that you're making in sending out the mail to reach out to homeschool students and to make them aware of educational opportunities, Do you see this bill as the potential bridge for incentives, which could end up resulting in funding to the school district? Yes, that is my hope. If they are taking advanced placement or they're participating in athletics, the school district then would receive funding, which would help towards adequacy.
Exactly. Thank you. Thank you, Representative Lowry. Committee, do we have any other questions? If not, Ms. Higdon, thank you. Thank you very much for being here today. Thank you all very much for the opportunity. We appreciate you very much. Is there anybody else in the audience who wishes to speak against the bill, for the bill? Dr. Kimbrell. Dr. Kimbrell, you need no introduction, sir, and you are recognized. Thank
Speaker 163
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you, Mr. Chair. Tom Kimbrell with the Arkansas Department of Education.
In all respect to my friend and colleague and workmate, Mr. Representative Ratlin and I worked together in the Corning School District and did a lot of hands-on work. We were 12-month employees, and during the summer we had to build things and hang air conditioners and do things that remove asbestos. I even got certified. I think I still got my card somewhere. But in due respect, we are in opposition of this bill.
I won't cover the information that Mr. Richardson covered, but I would like to point out that, Representative Douglas, you have a really good point. One of the things that we've been working with and having conversation for at least two sessions, Representative Carnine, is how do we re-involve homeschool parents in the public schools? And so there is legislation that allows a homeschool parent to choose options within our schools to reinterject their children's educational opportunities and have classes and participate now with the change in the AAA rule that allows students to participate.
But we've had schools for years now who have had children from homeschool opportunities come into our public schools, take chemistry, take AP classes, take band, art, choir, et cetera. And they get to count those students in their funding formula. They also get to count them in their ADM. So the more you get those homeschool students back in there, the more ADM you're going to have. So I think it would be a disincentive to do this. because if we're going to truly have a partnership between the public schools and the homeschool,
there needs to be an incentive to do that. That incentive is if the public schools reach out to homeschool parents and offer these opportunities, then it helps them when they get close to 350 to have that ADM. So if you get 40 homeschool students who are participating two periods a day, part of the day, then you get ADM counts for those students. So it will count towards your 350 that way. So I think that's an important issue. I will reiterate one thing that Mr. Richardson mentioned.
We had this experience, and Mr. Ratliff is very aware of this situation, and so is Mr. Crabtree. When the Twin River School District in that particular area, and I believe part of it was Mr. Ratliff's district, when we did a standards review up there for two years in a row, they had not met standards. They didn't have foreign language. They didn't have journalism. They didn't have – well, their choral music program was a karaoke machine that the manager of the cafeteria pushed and two students sang.
That was horrendous. They had two K-12 campuses that they were trying to operate with just around 400 students. They weren't able to provide those opportunities that those children needed. We went to the six superintendents that surrounded that school district, sat down with them over a period of six months and built a plan of how those students geographically would become part of those surrounding schools that were providing adequate education mr. Crabtree and five other superintendents were very very appreciative of that opportunity and helped us to be able to to geographically
place those students into schools that were providing an adequate education meeting the standards etc so I think mr. Richardson has a really good point if If you're not careful, you get to a point where the student population is so low, even with a lot of local support and millage, you can't provide the dollars to provide the opportunities for that. In the conversation about transporting students, every time those numbers drop, you're transporting fewer students the same distances, and the cost per student continues to go up, and we
know what that debate is. I suspect it will be brought up again this session, the debate of high-cost transportation. So as that student population continues to shrink, the miles don't shrink with it. You have more cost per student as you try to transport those students. So those are, in my opinion, some of the reasons that you wouldn't want to support this bill. One, I think it's a disincentive to get that partnership back in place with those parents who are exercising school,
homeschooling opportunities and the school districts that those students are are are actually living within and to I think when you get to a certain point we're we're real concerned about the educational delivery in the opportunities that those students have thank you mr. chair thank you dr. Kimbrell up
madame buster sit in a bad place with my computer
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
58:35
I just want to be clear, Dr. Kimbrell.
Currently, if a student comes for one period a day, they're funded the ADM for a pro rata share. Yes, ma'am, depending on the number of periods. And ADM is the only thing we're using in whether or not a school stays open.
Speaker 163
58:51
Yes, ma'am. ADM, we no longer use ADA. We don't use attendance as a factor for funding or for any calculations. So it's average daily membership, and so that counts in that membership. Yes, ma'am. So if a student just
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
59:03
came one period a day, then that's, I mean, there are no other figures that are used as far as,
there's no head count used for whether or not a school stays open. It's ADM only. It's ADM, yes, ma'am. Okay. I just want to be
clear that I had that right. Thank you. Representative Linderman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Dr. Kimbrell, I'm used to you and Representative Ratlin and I all being on the same side on all these issues. We normally are. We normally are. Okay. Okay, schools now are funded by per-student attendance, is that correct? No, sir, by student membership.
Student membership. Okay, what is the number for, let's say, first grade? How many students can a first-grade teacher have? The first-grade teacher can have
school district was sitting there with 21 and they had three homeschool students, it would be in first grade, would that require? No. that require under this no
Speaker 179
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would not require any additional teachers or anything under what currently is
Speaker 176
1:00:05
there it wouldn't require the district to hire any additional staff my
question is if this bill passes would those students
be counted in a per grade basis which could require the student the dish not not the
Speaker 180
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way I read the bill I don't think it has any requirement on the school to hire any additional staff
provide any additional services okay okay I think you've answered my question. Thank you. Thank you, Mr.
Chair. Dr. Kimbrell, could you just kind of clarify ADA versus ADM? Average
Speaker 163
1:00:36
daily membership takes into consideration the number of students that – and the days that they are actually a member of that school
and the number of periods that they attend each day. And because the kids transition out and transition in, you don't just have each student in the number of days that they attend. Average daily attendance takes into consideration how many days each student actually attends school. So we don't fund on ADA anymore. That was long, long ago. We only fund on the membership, and the membership being that
Speaker 183
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more really constant number that has been really beneficial to schools versus ADAs.
So transient students who are maybe there for maybe just a couple of months would not
be a part of the ADM. Oh, they are a part
Speaker 163
1:01:27
of the ADM. Yes, sir. They are for that period of time. And so that's why you do an average. So you look at every student every day that's a member of that school district. And then the next day that may change. And over a period of time, you have an average of the membership in the school district for that period of 178 days.
Thank you for that clarification, Doctor. Madam Vice Chair. In a follow-up to the chairman's
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
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1:01:57
question, how do you define a period? It's defined locally. So if it's an hour-and-a-half class or a 50-minute class or a 40-minute class, it's the same? Yes, ma'am. Does that even out? I mean,
Speaker 163
1:02:14
I guess. Well, it does because what you even out is 178 days. It should average out to six hours per week, excuse me, 30 hours per week or six hours a day of instruction according to our standards.
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
1:02:27
Okay. So it doesn't matter the time length of the period, even though one is almost double.
Speaker 163
1:02:32
Well, in that case, typically what you have there is you have block scheduling so that the content, you cover more content in
Speaker 178
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a shorter period of time, and you can double up on the number of credits. Typically, those happen
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
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1:02:44
at high schools. But I guess what I'm saying, you're not counting by credit class. You're counting by the credit class they're
Speaker 163
1:02:51
in? Well, the period in which they are attending, let's say that a homeschool student wants to come in and be in the music department in the band.
So they're taking the instrumental band section, but they also take AP, and you've got a seven-period high school schedule. So they're counting two-sevenths of an ADM. Versus if they were in a block, it'd be
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
1:03:11
one-fourth? Yes, ma'am. Okay, that's what I was asking you. It's not just, it's two-sevenths? That's right. Yes, ma'am. Representative Dickinson. Thank you, Mr.
Representative Jody Dickinson
Unverified
1:03:24
Chair. Dr. Kimbrell, at the end of this, I will have a question.
Okay. Okay. I just see this as an opportunity to speak up for not only our rural students, but our rural families. As numbers fall and more rural schools are consolidating, I've got so much to say that I can't even put it together here.
I'm sorry. How am I? I understand. Well, the parents in these rural districts, they have to make a choice. Say they don't want to put their school gets consolidated, and they don't want to put their children on a bus for even longer hours to get to school, where they're spending a large part of their daylight hours on a school bus, and they don't want to do that. So they can have a choice. They can homeschool them, and a lot of the homeschooling is very diligent.
I have nothing to say about that, but we all know a lot of it is not. And for those who are not diligent in it, you've got to look at families that they still have to go make a living, so they can't stay home and do that classroom the way they should. And those are children that's going to fall between the cracks. I just feel like that our hands are tied, and more and more we're not able to watch for our rural families and rural children.
And I just think we need to do what we can at this point. I have a deep concern for them. Yes, ma'am, I understand. Thank you. And now my question is, do
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you agree with anything I tried to say? Yes, ma'am. I can agree with several things that you tried to say. I think you're absolutely
Speaker 163
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correct. I think there are great opportunities for homeschool students in our state. I personally know several families who homeschool their children and do a fabulous job, a remarkable job.
I think I've had experiences as a school administrator in which there were situations in which homeschooling was not in the best interest of students and the parent was not providing that level of education, and I think those do happen across our state. I also believe that we are a state that is becoming more rural every day, and I think one of the big policy issues that we have as a state in its entirety is to address the issue of the ruralness of our state. from all aspects of economic development, job opportunities, as well as the opportunity for educational delivery.
And I think that's why we have to have, in the educational world, we have to have the debate about how the delivery model of learning has to change. We looked this year, just last month, at the state board at a high school virtual charter school, which would not only be delivered virtually for students, but would also have partnerships with some of our technical schools, our community colleges, et cetera. We just couldn't get all the details worked out to be comfortable with how that might operate,
the platform for operation, et cetera. But I think that's where we have to look into the future as our state becomes more rural. How do we deliver education for students that would have to possibly ride a bus for two hours? How can we maybe do that and not do it five days a week, but that child student come a couple of days a week, we deliver education using today's technology for a couple of days a week so that you really minimize some of that burden. But you use today's technology in the way kids are learning to give them those experiences,
but also have an opportunity for them to have involvement within the school. Because I think, again, that's an important piece. And I know working with Mr. Cox and the homeschool group, that's an important part that they play in trying to create opportunities for those children to be a part of that social and emotional growth that has to occur. So I can agree with a lot
of things that you say. I really can. Thank you. Thank you, Representative Dickinson. Representative Catlett, forgive me.
I think I passed over you. Do you have a question, sir? Okay, thank you. Representative
Chair
Unverified
1:08:12
Douglas, ma'am, you're recognized. Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. I just have to disagree with the fact that you think that the adding of these numbers would be a disincentive to these superintendents to go ahead and recruit and try to pull these students into full time. I may not have understood you correctly, but I see these superintendents as two examples here that we've got today
that their schools are, could we say, kind of on the bubble. Yes, ma'am. And having another year or two breathing room to be able to continue with programs that they've already instituted. They're fiscally sound. They are, excuse me, financially sound. Their academics is improving. They're trending up. And I see these superintendents that were here today as examples of, too,
that would keep on courting those kids until they probably got them there 100%. And in courting those students, I think that would be involved in, you know, what are those needs? How can we meet needs of more of our community? And I think that would bring maybe innovation to these schools as they look at, you know, these populations of kids that they might could court into the schools. So I don't think it would be a disincentive at all to count these kids and not receive the money.
Representative Dan M. Douglas
Unverified
1:09:54
I think they would work toward receiving the money and getting them 100% into their schools. I don't know that I
Speaker 163
1:10:03
would disagree with you when you talk about these two supertents. Well, I may have paused with Mr. Crattree. I'm just kidding. I've known him way too long. But I wouldn't disagree with you at all about these two superintendents. But I can tell you in three and a half years and being in this job, not all of our school superintendents have the same attitude they do.
And I found in this job that it's difficult. The pool of people who really look out for children in the best interest of children and focus their efforts on what's best for children is not always what is happening. The example of the Twin Rivers School District that I gave earlier, it was nothing but about what the adults in the school wanted, the leadership in that school district, and the lack of effort that they had to try to meet the needs. It really, I'm sorry, it kind of jaded me,
because I saw students who didn't get an opportunity, who graduated with less than 22 credits, which was against the standards, who didn't have an opportunity for any foreign language, never had an opportunity for music that was of any kind of benefit, journalism, et cetera, that I knew that's not right. So I agree with you with your assessment of these two individuals, but I'm not so sure that that is completely true across the state.
And I count many, many of the superintendents my friends. I lose a few every week in this work. But, you know, my job is to look out for all children in this, the children in this state. And I don't care if they're educated home school, private school, charter school, traditional school. As long as we get them ready to be successful as adults, that's my goal. And my job is to try to make every opportunity and ensure that opportunity is there for those children.
Chair
Unverified
1:12:01
And I think a favorable vote on this bill would do just that. Thank you. Thank you,
Representative Mark Biviano
Unverified
1:12:11
ma'am. Representative Viviano. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Dr. Kimmerle, we can appreciate Representative Ratliff's situation with his school district. How many school districts are kind of in that situation right now? What are we talking about?
Speaker 163
1:12:24
Well, right now we only have, I believe, we have two that are currently on this list of 350 for the second year right now.
I believe it is the Stevens School District, and the other one is escaping me. We have, Representative Viviano, I would be remiss in giving you a number. I can get that number for you because I don't know. Less than five. Less than 500? Oh, I don't know that off the top of my head. Less than five. School districts. Oh, yes, less than five right on the 350 for one or two years.
But as far as how many are at 400 or fewer, I would say that's probably around 15. Okay. And by the way, I appreciate your
Representative Mark Biviano
Unverified
1:13:11
comments on the alternative education, and I hope you mean charter schools too. Oh, yes, sir. And I did mention that. I think
Speaker 163
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we have to look at all opportunities. Dr. Kimbrell, thank you very, very much for being
here today. Always a pleasure. Thank you, Chair and Madam Chair. Do we
have anyone else who wants to speak for the bill, against the bill?
Representative Ratliff, you are recognized to close for your bill, sir. Okay,
Representative James Ratliff
Unverified
1:13:44
folks, I want to just take a few minutes to tell you that one thing we've got to realize about our system is we have a two-year legislative session every two years. And if we look back at every law that we've changed all the way back to 1935, you know, and they're worried about getting sued, you know, I got a ticket one time for going 60 in a 50. Well, now you can drive 70.
Well, I can't go back and sue for that. So I'm saying let's look forward in education, not back behind us. Let's move these schools ahead and keep it going. Thank
you. Thank you very, very much, Representative Ratliff. We appreciate you being here today. With that, what is
the pleasure of the committee? Okay, we have a motion due passed by Representative Lowry. All in favor? Aye. All opposed?
No. Motion fails. Representative Ratliff, thank you very much. Roll call, Mr. Chairman.
Okay, we indeed have two hands, so at this point, Mark is going to call
Speaker 203
1:15:03
the roll. Representative Hobbs? No. Representative Carnine? No. Representative Dale? No.
Representative Hopper? No. Representative Dickinson? Yes. Representative Edwards? Representative Edwards, Representative Viviano, Representative Catlett, Representative Linderman, Representative Deffenbaugh, Representative Eubanks, Representative Lampkin, Representative Ratliff, Representative Cozart, Representative Douglas,
Yes. Representative Lowry. Yes. Representative Armstrong. No. Representative Talley.
No. Representative Klemmer. It fails. It didn't get one. Representative Ratliff, the motion fails. Okay, committee, I believe that that is all we have for the agenda right now. Representative Lampkin, do you want to present your bill Thursday? Or do you want to do it today?
Okay. We have time, and Representative Lampton, you are recognized to present House Bill
Representative Sheilla E. Lampkin
Unverified
1:16:36
1244. Of course, if committee members
are running bills, and we know that you're going to be very, very busy as time goes along,
we are going to accommodate you in any way that we possibly can. So just kind of know that
on the front end. With that being said, Representative Lampkin, you are
Representative Sheilla E. Lampkin
Unverified
1:17:06
recognized to present your bill. Okay. Thank
you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the opportunity. Go ahead. This is a simple bill, and it really is. It goes back to a bill that was passed in the 2007 session allowing state employees leave time to attend their children's schools for educational purposes. And it was amended last year to further define a parent as being the natural parent or the
adopted parent or so on and so forth. And this is another little amendment to specify the definition of a child. In this case, the original bill and the amendment last time left out the category of developmentally delayed children, developmental disabilities. So we just want to amend the bill to include parents or guardians or whatever of children with developmental disabilities. And that's really all it does is just further define the child as those particular group
of children. It's sort of assumed, but now if this passes, it will be legal. Representative Lampkin, we appreciate your
explanation of the bill. Do we have any questions from the committee in regard to this bill? Do we have anybody in the audience who wishes to speak against this bill? Anybody in the audience who wishes to speak for the bill? If not, Representative Lampkin, are you closed for your bill? Yes, sir. I just appreciate a good vote.
Thank you very much, ma'am. With that, what is the will of the committee?
Representative Ratliff, we have a do-pass motion. All in favor? Aye. All opposed?
Motion passes. Thank you very much, Representative Lampkin. Okay, thank you. Okay, with that committee, we have put in a good day's work. It is almost 11.30. Motion to adjourn. All in favor? All opposed? We are adjourned.
Agenda
Documents
No documents posted.
Speakers
Representative James McLean Chair
Unverified
Senator Linda Chesterfield
Unverified
Speaker 5
Chair
Unverified
Representative Mark Lowery
Unverified
Speaker 15
Representative Mark Biviano
Unverified
Speaker 10
Speaker 35
Representative Karen S. Hopper
Unverified
Representative Homer Lenderman Chair
Unverified
Speaker 47
Speaker 52
Representative James Ratliff
Unverified
Speaker 63
Representative Debra M. Hobbs
Unverified
Speaker 69
Speaker 75
Speaker 80
Representative Bruce Cozart
Unverified
Representative Gary Deffenbaugh
Unverified
Speaker 64
Speaker 94
Speaker 76
Speaker 100
Speaker 107
Speaker 48
Speaker 128
Speaker 130
Greg Crabtree
Unverified
Speaker 145
Speaker 148
Speaker 147
Speaker 113
Speaker 151
Speaker 153
Speaker 154
Speaker 150
Representative John Catlett
Unverified
Speaker 163
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
Speaker 178
Speaker 179
Speaker 176
Speaker 180
Speaker 183
Representative Jody Dickinson
Unverified
Speaker 171
Representative Dan M. Douglas
Unverified
Speaker 203
Representative Sheilla E. Lampkin
Unverified