City, County & Local Affairs Committee- House

We have several of these bills that are on the agenda that are getting moved to the deferred list, um, so we'll take care of that up here. We're gonna start off this morning with uh Representative Carr, uh, House Bill 14 to 18. You're welcome to. Come to the table, just introduce yourself for the record, and you may begin presenting your bill. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good morning, committee. uh, Joey Carr, District 34, House Bill 1418, uh, what this does this in acts, uh, a knife law preemption through an existing statute, 14-16-504, which is the, uh, firearms law preemption statute, uh, what this does, it prevents local ordinances from creating greater restrictions, uh, than what state law allows, uh, which creates confusion. Also it's inconsistent through the state. Who it's gonna help is gonna be our skilled tradesmen, not only our knife makers, but also our other skilled workers such as, um, our electricians, carpenters, plumbers, HVAC, everybody that uses their knife as a, as a daily tool in their, in their work. 15 other states have this and so uh we want to just, uh, get this taken care of Arkansas that way it's consistent and everybody's calibrated the same throughout the state and I have a, a guest here that's gonna. Wait just introduce yourself. Um, Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, for the record, my name is Todd Rathner and I represent knife rights. I'm here in support of HB 1418, and I'm gonna keep this very concise. Knife rights has worked to pass a knife preemption legislation in 15 other states in a bipartisan manner, not one state has moved to repeal it. Very simply stated, residents of Arkansas should be confident that laws regarding their everyday work tools are consistent throughout the state. They should not fear that the knife they use for work every day may be legal where they live, but illegal where they travel to within their own state, HP 1418 is criminal justice reform. It reduces interaction with the police, which is why it has been a bipartisan effort in the other 15 states that have enacted similar legislation. It's for these reasons, amongst others that we urge you to vote. Yes on HB 1418, and with that, I conclude and would be happy to respond to any questions. Thank you. Thank you for that. Any questions from committee members? Seeing none. We have nobody signed up to speak for or against this bill. Any anybody anyone in the audience would like to speak for or against this bill. Seeing none, Representative Carr, you, oh, I'm sorry. Yes. Kenzie, you are recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Representative Carr, I do, uh, so I'm supportive of the bill. I do wonder, as we go into the, uh, preemption language, why there wasn't uh language given to uh ordinance or, um, local law that affects commerce of knives. It talks a lot about the componentry of knife making, carrying ownership, but not commerce. Can you explain that? You know what I mean? Uh, I, I thought that I'm gonna look for it here. I thought there was a sentence, but it may not be here about uh. Trade or transfer. Which would include, well, it it it's in the underlying statute on the 2nd page. Line 3, the last word transfer. That that covers commerce, probably not as effectively as we could, uh, but I believe that that covers commerce. And when I talked to BLR about that, they told me that with the precedent set through other statutes that transfer and transportation and it's it umbrellas and encompasses. Others. And I think that it would catch that, what you, what you're referring to in commerce. Again, super supportive. I want to make sure it's all encompassing preemption. Absolutely. Thank you, Representative McKenzie. Any other questions from committee members? Seeing none, Representative Carr, are you closed for your bill? Yes, sir. I would just say, uh, we, we appreciate your time and I think this is uh good for a, a, a wide array of Arkansas citizens and travels to the state and with that, I'm closed. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Cars closed for his bill as well the committee. Have a motion to pass all of any discussion on that motion. All in favor say aye, all opposed, I have it. Congratulations, you passed your bill. Thank you committee members, and thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you all. With that, we are going to represent a Steele, I don't believe is here to present his bill, so we're gonna skip over that. Representative McKenzie, you are recognized to present House Bill 1445. Thank you, Mr. Chair, uh, Britt McKenzie, uh, District 7, Rogers, Arkansas state representative. Um Hi everybody, uh, invariably, you know why I'm here today. Uh, I'm, I'm excited to present HB 1445. Um, as a proud advocate for our community, our rights, and our future, um, hopefully we can gather today to celebrate a significant possible legislative achievement. Uh, I believe that this bill truly embodies the beer the the spirit of balance. Uh, in my humble estimation, HB 1445 represents the very essence of compromise, securing our our our fundamental constitutional rights while promoting flexibility and local control. This bill at at heart is about protecting the rights of property owners to use their property in ways that benefit both themselves and the broader community. It's about ensuring that the dreams of homeowners are not just dreams but realities. Uh, I, I with all build presentations, especially ones that are controversial, I'd like to talk about what the bill does and what it doesn't do. Uh, what this bill does, it prevents overreaching local regulations. This bill ensures that local governments cannot pass ordinance that would expressly or effectively prohibit or severely limit the use of properties as short-term rentals. This means that uh that if you own a property and you wish to share it with tourists or visitors, you are not unnecessarily restricted by local laws that might hinder tourism or personal economic freedom. Registration in fairness. It introduces a requirement for short term rental operators to register with local government, but at a reasonable cost, not exceeding $50. This registration process is designed to be efficient with a mandate for local governments to review applications within 15 business days, ensuring that any delays or denials are communicated clearly and with opportunity for correction. penalties and proportionality. This legislation outlines fair penalties for repeat violators, suspending the operation of short term rentals for up to 30 days for multiple violations with a certain period or up to 12 months for severe infractions that involve serious injury or wrongful death due to reckless conduct by the property owner or their agent. This is about ensuring safety and responsibility without being punitive. Zoning clarity. Short term rentals are explicitly classified as residential land use, which means that they are subject to the same zoning requirements as other residential properties. This promotes fairness in how properties are treated across the board. Prohibiting illegal or inappropriate use. This bill through much compromise, much delegation or much deliberation and, and conversation last time the bill was presented in the ninety-fourth General Assembly also sets boundaries by prohibiting short-term rentals for being used for illegal activities, all that we wish not enter into our communities, um, such as hosting adult-oriented businesses and ensuring that neighborhoods remain safe and family friendly. What this bill does not do. This bill does not infringe on property rights. This bill takes away from your right to use your property, this bill does not take away your right to use your property as you see fit within the law. Instead, it safeguards these rights by preventing overly restrictive local regulations. It does not undermine local control. While it limits certain types of regulation, it does not strip away uh local governments of all control. It actually enhances local decision making by setting clear, reasonable guidelines that respect both property rights and community interests. It does not compromise community safety whatsoever. By setting out clear rules regarding what activities are allowed in short term rentals. This bill ensures that while flexibility is granted safety and community standards are not compromised. And it does not overburden with uh with uh onerous red tape. This registration process is streamlined to avoid bureaucratic nightmares, effective prohibitions. And ensures that property right, property owners can comply without undue hardship. My hope is that this legislation truly represents what we are in here, what we are all here in Little Rock to do. We raised our hand, we placed the other on our Bible, and we swore an oath to fundamentally look at our community, listen to our constituents, and zealously advocate to their ends. The Ark Arkansas constitution is emphatically clear on what value of individual property rights means to our uh to our forming document and all laws that emanate from it. Arkansas Constitution, uh, Article 2 Section 22. The right of property is before and higher than any other constitutional sanction. In private property shall not be taken, appropriated, or damaged for public use without just compensation thereof. This is about embracing the change that we see in our communities in a way that benefits everyone. Imagine a place where local communities can thrive with tourism where property owners can make use of their assets in innovative ways and where neighborhoods remain vibrant and safe. This bill paves the way for that vision. It enables economic diversity and promotes tourism to the farthest reaches and the farthest and most remote reaches of our beautiful natural state. Together we have shown that reasonable compromise is possible when we prioritize both freedom and responsibility. Here's to a future where we can all enjoy the fruits of our properties, the beauty of our state, and the peace of our neighborhoods. Thank you committee, and I look forward to your questions. Have any questions from committee members? Representative Burkes, you are recognized for a question. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Representative McKenzie, could you talk to me a little bit about what other states are doing in this arena. Yeah. There have been several states that have Gone before us in terms of creating preemption language. Um, Arizona is a great example that's, that's used. Um, they've come back and instituted similar, uh, so they they did a larger preemption, um, that's and apples and bowling balls a little bit in terms of the makeup of metropolitan areas and the local communities in Arizona. Arizona has 12 counties. I'm very strong in terms of what their constitution, um, uh, provides for, um, county executives and the role of county government as opposed to uh localized individual municipalities. Um, an initial preemption was passed and then they've come back and instituted similar safeguards and regulations in terms of um ensuring in Arizona being a border state that Airbnbs or VRBOs or short term rentals aren't used for the purposes of, um, illicit behavior, um, in promoting that community safety like I've talked about. There are other states that are taking this up this year. Um, Florida is a, is a state that's taken it up past the preemption, um, they're working on some of those safeguards as well. Representative Brown, you're recognized for a question. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um. Representative McKenzie, one of the, the major concerns that people are having is that, um. Someone could come in and buy up and it's. A concern of mine that somebody could come in and buy up a number of houses in a neighborhood or something and that they would all be Airbnb or Uh, that they would be short term rentals. And that, um, the short term rentals are causing tremendous, um, work for the local law enforcement. Can you please address that? Yeah, I mean, I have some studies, I shared some of that information with the committee, um, yesterday and last evening about, um, some studies that have been conducted that, that prove that there is a false correlation or a correlation does not exist between the rise or increase in price in in homes where, um, rules or regulations around short term rentals, um, has been, um, similarly, uh, uh, protected for property rights, um. Uh, to that end, this is a market, um, uh. What we've seen in in the birth of, uh, platforms and marketplaces that exist for property owners to use it as they see fit, that there's always corrections. So is there interest in in higher volume or higher trafficked areas, yes. Does it make sense, you know, financially or from a fiduciary standpoint for large swath investment, we're seeing that market correct. We're seeing those large corporations that once had interest starting to exit, um, what it does encourage is it encourages local investment from property owners. Um, predominantly as we look at Arkansas and we zoom out to municipalities and localities that don't have onerous regulations or bans or effective bans, you're seeing members of that community invest in the community, purchase additional homes and making them either um res uh resident occupied or long term rental and short-term rental. Um, so I, I understand that that is a fear. I do think it's again from some of the studies that I've been made aware of and have access to somewhat unfounded, um, but it's always. a concern. And as we allow for our constitutional rights to emanate markets will form. Markets will, you know, uh, will. encourage and increase and then markets will correct. So, um, while I understand it, and again, I, I believe, I fervently believe this bill creates a lot of flexibility and local control from those police powers that you mentioned. I want to make sure to answer that part of your question too. Um, I understand that there's, uh, stress on local law enforcement. Um, There's, there is stress separate and apart and in the existence of short term rentals, noise ordinances, nuisance ordinances, parking violations will exist before short term rentals, and they'll exist if short term rentals don't exist. So I understand that strain, um, bad actors will always be bad actors wherever they rest their head. And I want to do it every, every, anything and everything we can to enable and empower local law enforcement to enforce those, those nuisance ordinances. This bill doesn't take away a single. solitary right of local law enforcement to enforce nuisance ordinances. It strengthens it. It gives, uh, clarity of purpose to our local, uh, governments, you know, whether that be city councils, quorum courts, county judges, mayors to create uh simple streamlined safeguards to escalate and as a part of this bill, I mentioned that if there are multiple violations, um, so again, let's let's say for instance, a house at the end of a cul-de-sac is a short term rental. Um, if there are multiple violations of nuisance ordinances, parking. trash, uh, noise, um, uh, occupancy, uh, the locality has the ability to say 3 strikes and you're off the market. You have 30 days as a property owner to address that concern before we will allow you to go back onto the marketplace. So it, uh, whereas uh police powers of localities currently exist, it could be and in a town that doesn't have, you know, stringent or onerous, uh, regulations on short term rentals. There is no path for neighbors of that short term rental to say, well, how many strikes did they get? How many, how many swings at the bat or how many swings at the plate do they get? This clearly outlines what localities can and should do to address the concerns of of their neighbors. So follow up, uh, so that would be. You're saying that the, um, localities would have more, um, more authority than they would with a short term rental than they would with just a homeowner living there. I mean, a homeowner could, could have a a a boisterous party every weekend and they're still the homeowner, they can't be forced out. Is that correct? Is that what you're saying it promotes parity, I'll say that. This bill creates a streamlined process for localities to remove short term rentals that violate nuisance ordinances at the same volume and. temperature that they can uh address problems with long term rentals or multi-family home units or single family dwellings that are bad actors. So it, it strengthens it in terms of guidelines, but it doesn't take away any of their powers or abilities. Thank you. Thank you. Reresentative Painter, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I, I, I know the big issues have been about local control. And so living in a tourist area. Um, my mayor's folks are concerned about local control. So can you explain to me, um, on this bill, why we have towns like Bull Shoals. Lakeview Cotter, which is the trout capital of the United States. are not for this bill. The, the concern is in some of those towns. And maybe you can help me address this. Airbnb has come in and bought up a lot of those homes in those towns, so now you have some towns that are 60% Airbnb. How can they afford the infrastructure. When we're gonna further this bill, which in my opinion and I hope you uh try to change it. How does this not affect local control, where we're kind of opening the, the gate because most of these Airbnbs are not owned by local people. They're out of state companies. So help me on the local control part if you don't mind. Yeah, so it doesn't take away any any power or existing police power that localities have. Um, What it does do, and Bull Shoals is a great example. I also represent a tourist destination in Ozark Lake. Um, It's important that we maintain that local identity that you're talking about that we have a community opportunity to resolve those problems. But what I hope this bill does take away is arbitrary rights or arbitrary restrictions similar to what Bull Schulz has in terms of a square footage, um, Uh, prohibition on on short term rentals. 12, 1200 square feet and, uh, the maximum equivalent of 2 bedroom and 2 bath. Um, resorts that that have called the white buffalo estuary up in your neck of the woods, as well as Beaver Lake have enjoyed. The opportunity to host guests for Dozens if not hundreds of years. I too have wedded a line, you know, many times up in your neck of the woods to catch some of the beautiful native trout. I don't know how this benefits. I don't know how existing ordinances would benefit tourism. What it does is it hampers the ability for those who do own your property, who do pay into your, your base property taxes, those who are making investments in your community, whether they live in, in your home county where they live in adjacent county, where they live in the state of Arkansas or elsewhere from making the necessary investments and improvements to your community. Um, this strengthens by creating guidelines, local for local control. What it takes away are arbitrary. or seemingly um as the winds blow, regulations on them. Um, I think we all can attest to, uh, some nimbyism that exists in our home areas, you know, I'm for small government. I'm for limited government, but not in my backyard. Um, Property rights are sacrosanct. The Constitution states that our laws emanate from that constitution. Uh, it's clear to me that, you know, we should do everything we can to make sure our localities or municipalities have the powers that they need. They can enforce the powers of police powers specifically to to drive out bad actors to make it really difficult for them to operate. Um, but not at the chagrin of a fundamental right. Um I just lost my train of thought. So explain to me then why. Why are these towns not for this? I mean, you know, I think if we don't like what a a city council's doing, I think we can vote them out, right? And so, I guess explain to me why do we have tourist cities, not on board with this. If this is supposed to help. I get that. So it's the same argument we make about states' rights to the federal government. Um, we believe, based on the way that our Constitution written is written in the US Constitution is written that anything that's not directly enumerated to the responsibilities of the federal government, our states' rights. People try to make that federalism argument when it comes to local control. Counties are emanate their power from the Constitution. We charter counties. It is not the same with with chartered cities. Um, Why they don't like it because it effectively will take away an arbitrary power that they created for themselves, because the absence of statute or code. And I, I understand that and I respect that and I, I don't think any mayor in the state of Arkansas is working at, you know, the true detriment of their local economy, but I do think it, it fundamentally takes away a right, a right that we have secured in our Constitution, a right that, you know, we just passed the preemption, you know. At this desk prior to me coming up here. Other preemptions that we determine, well, it's either nominal or, yeah, you're right, you should be able to carry a knife wherever you are in the state of Arkansas. Um. It's my, it's my estimation, it's my value, and that's what this bill presents that above all rights is the right. To the ownership of property. So I understand that and I, I, I can, I've gotten the same number of emails, probably more than you have for mayors that are upset about what this bill does, but what it clearly outlines is a fundamental agreement that hopefully our legislature has for the value of property rights for all 3.1 million Arkansans. One more and I'll jump back in the queue. Um, so going back to property rights, living in a city. I live in a city. I can't, I cannot have a horse in my backyard. But I can have chickens. They regulate that. To me this is no different. The cities have regulations for a reason. And that's if I didn't like it, then I should be moving out, right? I completely agree. That's why this bill empowers the health, safety and welfare elements of what a municipality can regulate against. If it's good for the goose, it should be good for the gander. Those who want to say, well, we need to put you know fire suppression systems, we need to put, um, uh, fire extinguishers. We need to make sure we're controlling occupancy heads on pillows. Why can that not be said about the people that reside in that locality, 365 days out of the year. If health and safety concerns. are paramount for localities, and what this bill does, it helps them create parity, creates a level playing field for everyone that resides in that community. I think that's important. I mean, if, listen, if, if we're gonna sit here and as a local leader is gonna say, you know, well, we need to truly, truly promote the health safety and welfare, and that's where, and I don't R1 A1, we could have a whole conversation about zoning and use, um, today, I don't think, I don't think we got enough time for that. We got a lot of people back here, um, I think if health, safety and welfare is important for those who visit visit our community, it should be important, as important for those who live in our community. So this bill creates that parity, so that, you know, if, if a city feels or determines that they have too many people residing in a single family dwellings. If there's uh homes or, or aged or they're older, um, and we need to be very careful about the tinder boxes they, they can become in the in uh as a result of some type of fire, then why aren't those regulations also being passed out on those who own a single family home, those who long term rent a single. family home, those who dwell within a multi-family unit, so. Representative Hudson, you were recognized for a question. Thank you, Mister Chair. Um, Robertson and McKenzie, I've been going through. Um, and I wanted to direct your attention to page 3 of your bill. Um, where you go through in in beginning to the bottom of page 2 and then into page 3, talking about the things that the local government can and cannot do, cannot enforce, can't enforce. Um, page 3 line 3, section C says, uh, there's a list starting in local government may enact or enforce an ordinance resolution rule or other requirement that. And then we go through starting on number one and we list a number of things that the, uh, local government can do. At the bottom of page 3, beginning at line. 33, uh, subpart 4, suspend an applicant's ability to operate a short-term rental for a period of time that does not exceed 12 months if the applicant has been found guilty of violating one local ordinance and the violation of that ordinance occurred at the short-term rental and resulted in the serious physical injury or wrongful death of a person. From the purposely reckless conduct of the short term rental owner owner or short-term rental owner assigned agent. So, as I read this, are you saying that Uh, local, um, government has no ability to shut down a Short-term rental permanently, if something happens at that rental that results in the death of someone on its property. They can just shut them down for 12 months, but then that property owner can restart it. It, it takes the, the home offline for an extended period of time. But not permanently, no, uh, and I hope we can respect and and understand that either if it's owner occupied, which again, if there's an incident that results in the wrongful death, maiming serious harm of an individual that's owner occupied, um, they're gonna have to resolve that of their own, I mean. If your own home, you know, you, you had it on a short term rental, someone died and you were, you know, held legally liable for it because it's your own home dwelling, you're gonna figure out the issues that, that led to that occurrence relatively quickly. Those that aren't owner occupied, I would argue that I mean 12 months off market, no occupancy, that is a perverse incentive from continuing any deleterious practice that would, that would, uh, make it so that they would want to put it back on the market. So 12 months of zero. Occupancy, zero rental fees, 0 AMP taxes paid, zero hospitality taxes paid is going to result in the market taking care of that home individually, um, and, and, and I, and I appreciate what you're saying there, but there, you know, you would agree with me though, that this does hamstring the local government from having any other authority, say for example, um, if a local authority, um, has a restaurant, um, that, um, has an outbreak of, of Listeria or something or uses poor hygienic practices, they can shut that restaurant down if. people die. Um, from eating the food there, right? I mean, yeah, yes, but in this case, the, in the same situation, if people die in a short term rental, the local government doesn't have that same authority to permanently shut down that home, which is operating as a business, um, if people die on that property, the same type of authority that they would have if a restaurant caused that type of injury. Would you agree with me on that? Yes or no? I Yes or no. Not to be backed into a binary decision, uh, I would say that unlike a business that's licensed permitted, uh, has health code checks that is not only done through the locality but through the state. This is different and I won't concede the fact that operating as a business is, is a residential property that is the, the first thing this bill takes care of is establishes that short term rentals are defined as residential property. So, um, there's nothing in here that allows the local government or municipality. To Enforce any sort of health code, um, restrictions on, on the rental that they would for, say, a restaurant or other business that is open to the public, correct? Uh, it, it gets into the purpose of use. So if we're talking about uh creating regulations that are uh for hospitals uh uh outlets of hospitality that are food driven are different. I think we could probably both can come to that agreement that it is different because of the, the preparation of food and the ingestibility of what that byproduct is. Residential use, so head-on pillow, uh, this would create the opportunity for locality to create uh regulations that affect all heads on pillows. Again, if there is a safety, health or wellness concern for fire suppression for a number of steps, you know, ADA compliance, whatever that may be, they can, they can use this bill or this bill would create a landscape for them to regulate all types of residential property long term. So again, it goes back to the, the statement I made with Representative Painter is that if This is such a grave concern in localities, you know, do want to create a better environment, uh, in their estimation for those that visit or those that live, shouldn't it reflect their values on all of their citizens. but, but just, just. To make sure I understand the loss of someone's life is worth approximately 12 months of lost business. Is that right? on the value of life, but thank you. Representative Burkes, you can ask for a question. Thank you very much. Just a quick follow up on that idea. Of course, if a crime is committed in one of these residential units that nothing in this bill affects that, right? I mean, it does not affect the locality's ability to enforce police powers. OK, a quick, a quick idea I wanted to bring up as well. I appreciate the fact that this creates consistency across the state for all property owners to understand what rules they're playing under when they're in different locations, um, what about property owners associations. This in any way effective, uh, neighborhood or a group of owners to come together and make up their own rules and contract among themselves. Not at all, and that was, so this bill represents compromise coming out of the the previous. General Assembly. That was something that we were um tailor-made and bespoke to before we even introduced the bill. Um, I, I do believe it may, you know, contrary to some emails that some of you may have received, I do believe that the government that governs closest to the people governs most effectively. As long as they are securing that fundamental right. HOA's uh POA's community covenants are a, a even closer direct reflection of, of a community organizing or governmental entity. Um, not only is it difficult from code and statute. to change any of the regulations on them just because of how pervasive and permanent they are. Um, it's not something we want to do if a cul-de-sac, if, um, for instance, I live in a HOA area, um, individual roads and sections are under different community covenants than the broader HOA rules, um, because our street, you know, back in the 80s when it was established and it's been amended every 2 years since we established as the ones closest to us and around us, what rules and regulations we'd like to adhere. ourselves too. And I had to set back a fence 5 ft from the road because it's clearly stated that in the rules two years ago. Those are the rules my neighbors and I came up with two years ago before I had the idea of putting a fence up to promote safety for my family. So, yeah. OK, thank you. Representative painter you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Wouldn't you agree that every city is different? With different issues. Correct. But yet we're wanting to Make them all the same. No, what I'm wanting to do is secure fundamental rights. Every, every town, every city, every township, everything, every local community is different. And by that very token, we have 437 towns, John, you may be able to correct me. Um, uh, 500. Thank you. We have, for some reason, 500 different approaches on how to deal with short term rentals. When it comes to the securing of a fundamental right. They didn't waste much space to get to Article 2, to tell us what you know, the, the right of property is separate and above all else in our Constitution. All laws should emanate from that constitution and secure those fundamental rights. What this does, and again, it's not the, the, the original version of the bill that passed the Senate in the ninety-fourth General Assembly. That is broad, that is opaque. This version promotes compromise. It promotes parity amongst our localities so that property owners know when they walk into any city in the state of Arkansas, they're core fundamental rights are secured, but at the same time, this doesn't promote any non-redress of a city to create a ordinance that promotes health, safety, welfare on all of their citizens if it is deemed that important. Have we Thought about the, the impact fiscally what it's going to do to cities, you know, if you got like I brought up some cities that are 60%. Airbnb, but last time I checked an Airbnb is not always. Got somebody in there So I'm concerned that if we have a housing shortage, And especially in rural Arkansas. We're gonna open this gate up, which majority of these uh Airbnbs are not owned by mom and pop stores. It's, it's gonna fiscally hurt towns. It's not gonna be. We're not gonna see some overnight revenue increase. Wouldn't you agree? Can you clarify your question just a little bit further. I guess what I'm asking is, do we know what this is gonna cost to our local cities. With A bunch of Airbnb's coming in. Based on my research, there are only two cities that the regulations we've created would effectively change, lower their permitting and registration fees. 2. Um, beyond that, I will always contend that investment in our community, so you're saying occupancy, I get that. Um, occupancy and then the, the, the fare per per night. It affects the pockets of the individual who owns the property. What affects everybody in that community is people investing, people becoming part of the tax base, people paying millages, people, you know, uh, investing in local, uh, the local economy to improve those homes to maintain those homes, to find registered agents in those areas to make sure that the standards and quality are high, um. For my estimation and the research I've done, which has been extensive over the last 3 years of of shepherding this legislation, um, and it was one previous town, the, the, the fee would be an effective change downward. Uh, it's now been 2 since the last time I introduced this bill, but what it does create is it creates a regulatory framework for cities to and, and I have, I've sent, I sent everybody in the committee a document that that showed the current regulations in certain cities, uh, and how the effect of change would be through this legislation. It creates a regulatory framework for them to increase revenues so that they can manage, uh, manage the short term rental, uh, population and the, the purposes of a registration, which is information gathering as well as the communication in the event that they're outside of the, the boundaries of an ordinance or law. Um, so, fiscally, I believe that this is a good because we're gonna encourage growth, innovation and investment in our local communities, and B, it creates a regulatory framework for them to start applying, um, uh, fees to. The purposes of information gathering for registration. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll jump back in. Representative Holcomb, you're recognized for questions. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, Representative Kent McKenzie, uh. I see a lot of faces in the crowd that were here last year when you and I talked about this bill and it's obvious that you're for the bill and I'm against the bill, but I'm gonna make them understand that today even though we're not together on this bill tomorrow we might be working together on another bill, so this has nothing to do with personalities, uh, but I do want to ask you a couple of questions, just, just one question in particular. I, I know we're, we're talking about property rights and, and I'm concerned about homeowner's property rights that live in an area where they raised. their family, uh, and this issue comes up, but, uh, I know that a lot of these short term rentals are, are owned by out of state companies that buy them, they see them online, they buy them and then they have another party to take care of it for them, uh, but my question is on uh the the 4th page, uh, I think it's number 5. It says it limits or prohibits the use of short term rental for house sex offenders. I. I, I don't know what how sex sex offenders are sex offenders. I don't know what the house means, but can, can you tell me how we're, if we've got, if we've got an out of state company that owns this, this property, how are we gonna, how are we gonna know that? I mean, I, I know that sometimes like uh in, in some areas there may be. Or maybe 12 cars there are 12 or 15 people, so, uh, I know you've got that in, I believe it's, yes, line 5 on the 4th page and. How, how are we gonna know that? I mean, they, I know they submit and just rent it to so many people, so how's that gonna work, so it's a part of it in the, in the beginning part of the definition sets up uh definitions for the marketplace. It's obvious there are, there are some marketplaces, some platforms that are more significant than others, um, as a part of those platforms, they do cursory background checks. What we do in this bill is we strengthen the laws that we send to those platforms and say, your background checks need to be extensive for these things, um, you know, sex offenders. Which I, I, I can't find a person that would disagree that if we have the ability to write into our code, creating distance in our communities from those that we deem not responsible enough to be near our families. Uh, so the platforms are going to be responsible for those checks. Obviously, we talk about liability, um, we're getting into this, into the, uh, place of liability now. The the responsibility and liability of the homeowner versus that of a platform that they use. I would also agree, this creates, uh, this creates a rule and framework. The Mom and pop B&Bs in Eureka Springs, or, um, the, you know, the um homes that are listed as resorts on the beaver or on the, on the Buffalo or White River that list only in the Magnolia Reporter, um. They now have the responsibility of doing background checks, and I think that's important. I think that's a good thing. Um, the platforms take it upon themselves to do that to make sure that they're in compliance with all local ordinances, state laws, um, we're setting the goalposts that, you know, if we're going to allow short term rentals, if we're going to secure fundamentally property rights. We're also going to, you know, take that bottom rung of people that we don't want in our communities and we want to create limiters or inhibitors for them coming in, uh, and we wanna, we wanna make sure our communities remain safe. Um, I am una of a single ordinance in the state of Arkansas that does what we do in here. There's a lot of talk about health, safety, welfare, um, and the need for ordinances at a local level and to be maintained at a local level. I have not found a single one that does what we do in this bill. There's a lot of ordinances that have to do with occupancy on street parking which still this bill wouldn't affect in terms of the nuisance ordinances for street parking for trash, for noise, um, but this bill goes a step further, um, and as a legislature, I think it's important for us to, to agree that um those that have done that wish to do harm in our communities are not allowed. Uh, Mr. Speaker, if you allow me just a minute, I'll be through it, and I know you're passionate about this and, and, uh. But my concern is, you know, now if we have sex offenders in our communities, we know where they're at. I mean, it's they have to report that so the people in the community know so that was just a concern of mine. I, I don't think anything you and I would say not going to be in the short term rental down the road. I don't think anything you and I say today are gonna change anybody's mind. I think their mind's already made up, but anyway, thank you for your time, Mr. Mr. Chairman. Representative Hall, you recognize the questions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, I got a question like, uh, what she was talking about earlier on the 12 month shutdown, um, say I own, uh, Airbnb and something happens and, and, uh, somebody dies or gets injured, and I get shut down for 12 months. Does that shut down stay with the property or does it stay with the owner? Cause if it stays with just the owner, I could maybe change my LLC to another name and open it up immediately. or I could sell it to my brother-in-law, you know, and open it up immediately. Uh, do you have any clarity on that on the structure of the bill, it would be on the individual who applies for the registration that it's effectively a permit that that is that permit holder. So you, and, and it's important to note that you're found, you know, reasonably liable for the negligence that led to a death. So Brad Hall owns a short term rental. You are found reasonably negligent for the responsibility of a death. Uh, it stays with you, you know, the, the registration as in terms of what the, the city is. concerned with their visibility, their ability to influence that property. It stays with you, um, and You know, we're not, you know, there are, there's two MSAs in our state. Um, most of the, the town and city and county clerks that I'm familiar with, they're gonna know if you walk back in there with that LLC. But yours is offline. I reincorporated. I'm now um um Hall Brad, not Brad Hall. Um, it's gonna be incumbent upon them to make sure that, you know, you're still the same permit holder, you're still, you know, reasonably liable for the negligent death. Um, the way it's structured here, it doesn't create loopholes. Uh, we were pretty, uh, diligent about that as we amended the bill and added this language in, doesn't create loopholes for, you know, nefarious bad actors to get back in line. Thank you Representative Rye, you recognize. Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Representative McKenzie, I'll never forget the first time I was down here. Something came up in hot springs. And it was dealing with water rights. And there were folks outside the border of Hot Springs that wanted to tap into the water. That was in Hot Springs, Arkansas. And I thought it sounded pretty good, but the longer that I listened to the situation. It looked like that we were trying to they were trying to put a force on us, Connie, to do the things that they wanted locally. From here in Little Rock. And someone told me, he said, well, you know, they need to straighten out that situation herself. So I'll just give you that. Appreciate it, Representative Wright. Thank you. Representative Pilkington, you're recognized. Thank you, Chair. Um, Representative McKenzie, is it not true that 76% of Airbnbs are only owned by only owned one short term rental. I've I've heard anecdote about, you know, the, it's, it's a monolith argument. I get it, and, and there have been investment in strategic areas. I've seen 76, I've seen as much as 81, um. I've provided the information to everybody on the committee relevant relevant to the case studies, the, the download data that we've seen, um, they are owned by independent operators in the state of Arkansas, typically, uh, less than 2. so, and I, you know, I work in the business of changing consumer behavior. I, it's easiest when you create an archetype. When you boil who your audience is down to to an entity or a semblance of an entity. The typical short term rental owner is a member of your community. Uh, Occupies at least one day job and this is uh this is residual income for them or it's a previous residence that they that they occupied. Um. These are direct investments by our neighbors in our communities. I get that, you know, people, you know, individuals will use the monolith of the black rocks or uh the vanguards coming in and buying whole swaths of of streets, um. Have there been some larger multinational organizations that have bought select strategic properties, yes. Uh, have we seen the market correction? A lot of them have exited, yes, and a lot of those are in my, in my region. So, um, Predominantly, it's, it's your neighbor. It's the guy that you go to church with. It's the guy you see in the grocery store and the reproach of the concerns that you have, um, you can deal with them because you got their phone number. You know who they are, you see them at church, you can harangue him in front of the pastor or priest, so. Thank you, appreciate that. Commit I know we still have at least one question in the queue, but we have, I think, 2 pages of people to sign up to speak for and against this, so we'll continue on with questioning, but I just wanna let y'all know that's sitting out there too, so Representative Painter, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, uh, page 4, line 17. It says a local government shall not regulate the operation of a short-term rental marketplace. Can you just Explain that to me. Yeah, short term, uh, marketplace is defined in the beginning part of the bill, but you say. We're all about local control. For the local local government shall not regulate. Yes, they, they don't regulate the local paper in terms of classifieds for Airbnb for, for bed and breakfasts that aren't on platforms. They don't regulate, um, the circulars are at our grocery stores that elicit um other uses of property. They don't, they don't regulate the, um, the radio, local radio show that's trying to sell tractors, uh, I'm for local control. I'm not for local control of the larger invisible hand of of commerce and and uh economics. They didn't have the ability to regulate the, the economies for this prior to this and this, that, that, that's a part of this uh this bill, the the marketplace themselves. I will say it's important to note that there there are agreements between these platforms and the municipalities, even those that that are vehemently opposed to the existence of short-term rentals. Some of the municipalities, you know, where the sole discretion of a permit application is that the the the discretion of the mayor, um. They have the agreements in place for the purposes of tax collection. They have agreements in place for the, the purposes of a re reciprocity of information. So, um, The, the intimation that there's not a good relationship between marketplaces and local leaders is a little bit far fetched, um, and it's tainted or painted by um the, the indeliverable, the end result, the byproduct of, of that platform, which is local owners listing their homes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I know we got 2 pages I will. OK, seeing no more questions from committee, uh, signed up to speak against. Have a first name, Vincent. So I guess that's the first name. You will introduce yourself for the record you are, you are recognized. I'm Vincent Henderson. Uh, I live here in Little Rock. Um I was gonna try to hit 2 or 3 points as quick as I can. This story is as old as human history. You've seen novels and movies. Talk about it. I was a conflict. There's one group of people that wants to make change. It's gonna be better for them, better for everybody, you know, I'll sides always someone stalwarts who likes the status quo, like the way it is, worked that way for them. The people before them. So this is not anything new, uh, in that regard. Um, There's some problems with this piece of legislation, I believe. Uh, I want to start off with. Uh, the first section and the first subdivision. In the bill It quotes Article 2 Section 2 of the state constitution. All men are created equally free and independent and have certain inherent and inalienable rights, amongst which are those enjoying and defending life and liberty of acquiring, possessing, and protecting property and reputation and pursuing their own happiness. Now I'm not sure what happened or why. But there's something missing in, in that quote. And that's the second sentence. Of that section 2. Which states to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, driving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That's where the missing piece. I think most people see and recognize in this bill. As Thomas Jefferson said, the government closest to the people, serves the people best. This bill essentially moves. The cities and counties. Out of actually regulating. The short term rentals. Uh, you've seen it, you've heard some of the comments about that. Uh, I want to mention passing, uh, you mentioned the, uh, Limits prohibits uh that prohibit the use of short term rentals for. Housing sex offenders, selling illegal drugs. Housing adult-oriented businesses, that sort of thing. You can't do that in a single family residence anyway. That has nothing to do with short-term rentals. Uh, except that the possible housing, excuse me, excuse me, of, of sex offender might have to live there. All the rest of that stuff is illegal in any event, no matter what the, the nature of the property is. The second thing is You can call this a residential use. But it's not. This a commercial use this that that this is a hotel, maybe small. Maybe you only have 1 or 2 or 3 rooms to rent. But at the end of the day, these are hotels. This is how hotels started. As as lodging ends. And I said you can rename it, but that doesn't change its character. I don't, I haven't heard anyone claim that a Cedar County should not have the right. To Regulate Land use was respect to hotels and motels. And that's, that's what we're really doing with this bill. Um So one of the things also, one kind of mentioned passing. Sorry, it's an old habit of mine, uh, on page 4. Line 3. I'm not sure what purposely reckless means. It's either purposely or it's recklessly, uh, that alludes to criminal mens rea. Uh, and then, and then, uh, I think Mr. McKenzie said something about negligence, so I'm not sure what that means in that regard. The ultimate problem with this bill, as mentioned in passing. It encourages the taking of single family housing stock out of use. Limits what local governments can do to print the loss of those housing units. At a time of severe single family housing stock shortage. In Little Rock, the city knows that they're at least 500. Short term rentals. That are operating outside of the ordinance right now. There are probably more. That calculates to, I figure between 1000 and 1500 hotel rooms. That's like 3 of the uh Marriott hotels downtown worth of rooms. Which brings me to another problem issue that's been mentioned. Who would know better the number of hotel rooms, a city or town, county would need the local government. This calculates at 500. Somewhere between 1000 and 1500 additional rooms in Little Rock unregulated. With respect to the statement that was made about fire suppression and that sort of thing you can only put in in these units if you require those kinds of uh Eunice, safety measures in all your residences. The problem is This is not a residence. This is a hotel. You have people coming and going. It's why we require hotels to do that. To protect the occupants of the hotel. That's why we don't have it necessarily in resin. I'm not saying it's not a bad idea. I have fire extinguishers at my house. But that's why it's different. This is a commercial use, not a residential use. Thank you. Any questions from committee members? Representative Pilkington, you are recognized. Oh sorry, I had sidebar conversation going on. Um. So there's, there's one thing you said that I really perks my interest. You said, That a city knows better how many hotel rooms than anything else, but I believe that's incorrect because the market would know. How much a city needs on hotel rooms and how when markets grow and they shrink. And so I just would like you to take a moment. Do you agree or disagree that it should be the market, not city governments using central planning to decide how our economy runs. No, you're correct, but what cities do. Is they study the market. They, they can determine what the market is for that. Follow up So should we do the same with medical clinics, grocery stores, things like that. We should only let the city study and determine how many were allowed to put up and how we're not allowed to put up, would you, is that what you are saying? because I'm not following your logic here, distinction here is that These Are being put in residential areas. Claiming that the residents uses. If they wanted, if someone wants to build a hotel. And take the chance on that. The city You know, can certainly provide that by way of their monitoring regulation. This is different. The way this bill is written. The city Cannot prevent. These from being in a residential area. It's apples and oranges in that respect. The city Little Rock, for example, can't control. These Short term rentals. Like I said, we have like 500 of them in the city already that are leak. So you, you don't believe a regulatory framework would be helpful to break those 500 into compliance. I think the best place for that regulatory framework is at the local level. But clearly They're ineffective in actually doing that. So I'm, I'm, I feel like we're going around in a circle, but I, I appreciate your commentate testimony today. Thank you, sir. Good seeing no further questions from committee here dismissed. Thank you, thank you for your testimony. I'm gonna remind everybody that signed up to speak for and against, we have a lot of people signed up. I do not like limiting public debate. I'd love to have the public's input. This is the opportunity for it in committees, but we do have other things to get to today. So if y'all would be mindful of that and, and try to keep your testimony relevant to the situation and not repeat what the person ahead of you has said, I would greatly appreciate that. Maybe we can get through this pretty quick, uh, with that being. said, Kendall Daniels, if you will come to the table and. Introduce yourself. You may begin your testimony. The state your name and who you're with, please. Um, my name's Kendall Daniels. I live in North Little Rock and I am a realtor, but I'm not representing the realtor association or anything, just myself. And I do not own any short-term rentals, um, but I do have a passion for Arkansas and for the growth of the housing market. Um, There's so many points I've scribbled down, so I'm going to try to make sure I. Stay focused on it, um. But one of the key things to me that nobody has brought up is that the short term rental market is a needed housing type, just like we know all people can't buy homes, we have to have rentals available. Some people need apartments, some, you know, there's all different housing types and housing is a basic need of every person. I've had clients that rented a short term rental because their sister was. Dying and they wanted to have, they lived in another state and they wanted to spend time together. To take care of one another to be there. And the sister's house was not accommodating for both of them to live in. Um, you have like the Ronald McDonald House, the whole purpose of that foundation is so that people have a place to stay while their kids in children's hospital. So there's Tons of needs that people have for a short term purpose. Um, you have people that have sold their home but they haven't yet bought a home and they need somewhere to go temporarily. They have animals, so they don't want to stay in a hotel that it works well for them, um. You've got people recently had a client who was renting on, uh, month to month, so they weren't in the middle of a lease. The owner of the, um, complex sold it and they were now having to find a new place to live, and they were also going to go ahead and look at changing jobs. It would be nice to have a short term situation for that. So I think there are a lot of needs, um, to provide that can be provided by having a short-term rental, um. I have. Um Oh, and the big thing is, I think that some of y'all brought up like let the market do its job like everything else. If we have too many short-term rentals on it, they're not gonna all be rented out. They'll go out of business. Um, I think a lot of the fear is maybe a false fear, um, they're worried about conditions or, um, then buying up all the properties and the locals can't buy them. Well, I feel like that's where you need to work with your realtors and set your marketing plan and your pricing plan so that you are marketing it. to an owner, long-term owner occupant, if that's, um, not that you can discriminate or say I'm not going to sell it to an entity, but the way you market it could help in that cause, um. Also, I feel like when. The city is able to regulate or to say no, just a blanket, no short term rentals, you're kind of creating a platform where there can be bias and discrimination because then what's the standard for getting approved or not approved? Is it just a group of them saying, OK, we don't like this short-term idea, but we like that one. So I feel like that kind of opens up a little bit of issues there. And I, so I think the market we should let the market do its job, and then the city. rules that govern property conditions like a dress the condition, not the type. If we're not wanting short term rentals because we're afraid of the traffic going in and out because you're afraid of the parking because you're afraid of unsanitary conditions and those types of things, those conditions should be addressed with local policy, but that doesn't mean that all short term rentals need to be banned. So, um. Those are kind of my main points. But really consider that there is a great need for short-term housing for, for people for multiple reasons beyond just going on vacation. They're, they might not want to stay in a hotel because they don't want the germs associated with walking around in the hallways with lots of people. They, there's a ton of reasons why a short-term housing market is needed my main points. OK, thank you for that testimony. Seeing no questions from committee members. You're dismissed that. Next on the list, Peter Neergarten. You'll just state your name and who you're with for the record, you may begin. Thank you and good morning. My name is Peter Niengarten and I'm a director with the City of Fayetteville, Arkansas, and I'm here representing the city of Fayetteville. Um, Fayetteville's had what we believe is a very effective, um, short-term rental ordinance in place since 2021, um, Fayetteville considers, uh, short term rentals as a fantastic tourism resource that helps our community provide a quality overnight accommodations for a highly variable number of visitors that we see to our city, um, as you can imagine, Razorback sporting events, um, events at the University of Arkansas and other activities, uh, create a, a ballooning and shrinking of the number of visitors. see in Fayetteville. Um, currently we have over 500 short-term rentals, uh, permitted in Fayetteville. Our ordinance has a $47 registration fee and considers two types of short-term rentals, um, type one short term rentals are where the principal use of the property remains as a full-time residence and someone is able to rent out a room or their entire house if they're away on vacation or gone for the weekend, um, type 2s, short term rentals are not occupied as permanent residents. Um, the owner lists the property full time and has no intention of staying there. These are typically single family homes, duplexes, apartments, condos that are located, uh, throughout our city. Um, short term rentals in Fayetteville are subject to the, to our city's 2% HMR tax, hotel, motel restaurant tax, the same as hotel rooms, um, and the city has entered into voluntary collection agreements with Airbnb and VRBO for collection uh of those taxes, um, additionally, we do have an online remittance program for the convenience of short-term rail operators in Fayetteville. Um, short term rental operators, uh, are also required to get a short term rental business license, uh, as part of the permit process, um, a very critical component of that licensing process is passing a short term rental life safety inspection, um, this inspection is designed to ensure that minimum safety measures are in place in these rental properties, um, and for each rental unit. They include common sense items such as fire extinguishers, uh, smoke alarms in each bedroom, carbon monoxide. side detectors in homes with gas heaters, um, egress windows in each bedroom that is occupied, grounded electrical receptacles, um, near sinks and handrails, uh, and other fall protection. I do have copies of our rental uh inspection requirements here if anyone is interested in seeing those. Um, these inspections are intended to protect the life, uh, safety, health and welfare of visitors to our community who are very likely unfamiliar with the properties that they are about to stay in. Um, through these inspections we have found numerous instances of sleeping quarters, and we've, we've conducted, uh, over 1000 of these inspections across our community, but we've found numerous instances of sleeping quarters that were not intended for sleeping, such as windowless rooms, um, such as an oversized closet, uh, laundry rooms, converted sheds and floodways, um, and other rooms without proper egress. Um While we appreciate, uh, the provisions in the, in the bill that address the nuisance violations and we think those are good, um, our concern with the current bill language, um, is in section C2, uh, which says that a local government may not enact or enforce an ordinance or requirement that is more burdensome than an ordinance resolution rule or other requirement that currently applies to all residential properties found within the jurisdiction of the local government. Um, short term rentals are hospitality oriented quasi-commercial units, and therefore the inspections that we perform are unique to STRs, to short term rentals, and they're different from building code resident, uh, inspections that we conduct as part of residential construction, those, those inspections are for framing, for plumbing, um, and, uh, and for electrical installations, um, those are all necessary to achieve a certificate of occupancy at the end of construction, um, ally Homes, apartments, and town homes that have, uh, longer term residents, those residents are familiar with smoke alarm functionality, fire extinguisher locations, egress, uh, ability. Conversely, these hospitality-oriented short-term rentals have transient oriented occupants, very short stays, uh, the first time the, the, the occupant is there is, uh, when they show up to unlock the door, they're renting them sight unseen based on pictures. On the internet. Therefore, we believe that due to the unique nature of short-term rentals, um, that there ought to be additional precautions taken, additional inspections necessary and required to ensure the safety and welfare of visitors of Fayettevill visitors to Fayetteville. Um, we urge the committee to vote no on the bill in its current form, and we're more than happy to work with the bill sponsors, uh, on amendments that would allow short term rental specific safety inspections, um, to ensure the health, welfare, and, uh, safety of visitors to Fayetteville and to the greater Arkansas. Any questions from committee members? Yes, Representative Richardson, you are recognized. Thank you very much, Chairman, uh, and thank you, sir, for being here. I appreciate that. I'm curious, you, you named off a number of, and I tried to write them down, but I'm slow rider and you're a fast talker, so that didn't work out very well, but you named off a number of uh regulations that you have from a safety perspective for these houses, right? uh how many, how many were there that you named off? Uh, there were about 6 I rattled off, but, uh, our list is, it's, uh, a less than a page long in terms of. And you specifically said none of these are required for a standard resident. They are, we do not do, do those types of inspections, uh, on a regular basis for, um, normal residential properties throughout the city, no. So, so I guess this kind of get into the. The root of my question. I'm curious and and don't wanna, I don't wanna be, you know, blunter overly aggressive with my question, but it almost seems like there's a value associated with those visitors, that's not associated with your regular residents because you feel that there is a significant amount of safety requirement for those visitors, but you don't do the same requirements for normal homeowners, so I'm wondering how the city. I, I guess balances those two ideas. Yeah, it's a great question. I think a really fair question. Uh, I think the difference is, um, the both the sight unseen nature of renting the short-term rental. So you're looking at pictures online and seeing, um, you know, a representation of what you are, uh, about to stay in, um, and you have no way of knowing, um, that these life safety measures are in place versus someone renting a property or moving into a property on a more long term basis. is, uh, walking into the, to the, uh, house or apartment, um, and able to see and understand what they are signing on to in terms of a lease or buying with respect to that property. So I think it, it's um. It it has to do with that, uh, that sight unseen nature and the transient nature, uh, of these inspections. I mean, these are very similar to what we would expect a hotel to have, um, in our community and our fire marshal would do inspections for these items in hotels in Fayetteville, uh, but the, but the bill language doesn't let us treat these as we would treat hotels, it only lets us treat them as we would treat residential properties, OK? And one follow up, just wanna be sure you do not. do this for long term rentals. We do not do this for long term rentals. Uh, we do do many of these inspections, uh, upon completion and um before certificate of occupancy is acquired for a brand new residential property, but we wouldn't do them on an ongoing basis on any residential properties inside the city. All right, thank you very much. Seeing no further questions from committee members, you're dismissed. Thank you. Next on the list. DeShawn Fleming. You would just introduce yourself for the record. You may proceed. Hey, I'm Deshaun Fleming, uh, born and raised in Little Rock, Arkansas, um. Never done anything like this before, but uh Ladies and gentlemen, esteemed members of the community and policymakers, I stand before you today as a proud veteran of the United States Armed Forces. I was serving of the community of a servant to the country. Who fought for the rights that are being called in question today. I'm speaking about my constitutional rights as a property owner in Arkansas. It is a basic right guaranteed by the our Constitution that is an American citizen, I should be free to make decisions about how I use my property, including whether to engage in short-term rentals, a practice that is lawful in many places across the nation. However, here in Arkansas, my rights are being restricted by regulations and unfair target and Fairly targets my ability to use my property as I see fit. These actions infringe upon my rights as an individual, a homeowner, and a veteran. The Constitution grants use. grants us the right to property, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. When a government body takes away my ability to rent my property as a short term period. As a short period, it is not just the inconvenience, it's infringement on my fundamental rights. As a veteran, I have fought to protect these rights. And now find them under threat in my own state. We must ensure that our rights are protected and that the government does not overreach into personal decisions that affect our daily lives. I ask you as my fellow citizens and as leaders in our community. To stand with me and uphold the freedoms that all chairs and fall for. Thank you. We have any questions from committee members? Seeing 9. Thank you for your testimony and thank you for your service. Thank you. Before you can hold up. Applause, please. Next on the list, uh, Sarah Moore. You'll introduce yourself for the record, you may proceed. Thank you, Chair. Um, hello, my name is Sarah Moore. I'm in the city of Fayetteville and I am on the Fayetteville City Council in my first term. Um, I had no idea for the 1st 2 years of my term, how much I would learn and talk about short term rentals. Um, I, I I hear laughing, you too, probably. Um, I also have served on the Ordnance Review Committee, um, where, um, I think there was some conversation about arbitrary regulations, and I will say City of Fayetteville has a very public record that we've had um very public discourse and have had, um, you know, very thoughtful discussion that is how we've arrived at the regulations we have in the city of Fayetteville today. Um, I agree that we should value the individual property rights, that was talked about by the sponsor of the bill, but I also think that we should not be valuing the individual property rights of people that run Airbnbs at the expense and over and above the um individuals that live within our cities and our communities, um, unfortunately the spill, it really creates a one size fits all, um, approach, um, and so, you know, we have uniqueness to each of our 500 cities across, you know, the state, um, and each of those cities like the city of Fayetteville, you know, has, has had, you know, different discourse with their voters and their taxpayers, you know, asking for there to be customization, um, to take care, you know, their communities, um, you know, we talk a lot too about this bill trying to really speak to tourism and tourism is incredibly important for. the city of Fayetteville and the state of Arkansas, um, but we also have to have an Arkansas, that's for Arkansans, um, and so whenever, um, you know, we talk about not creating that level of regulation, um, you know, we really, um, in the city of Fayetteville have experienced that, um, you know, we've declared a housing crisis through these two years of conversation about our market, um, and one of the things that happens is that we have become, you know, out of balance, um, we, we speak about how and tourism is driven because we have desirable communities to come to, um, that are serviced by individuals like our police and fire and service workers, um, yet they struggle to find housing, and so we need an Arkansas that works for Arkansans. Um, there was a, a comment that was made about, you know, dreams of homeowners, um, you know, people in the city of Fayetteville and across the state, they dream of being homeowners in the city of Fayetteville, 60% of our population are renters, um, and they continue to tell us that the, uh, you know, the lack of housing stock in our market not being able to keep up is continuing to make that out of reach for them. Um, it was spoken about reasonable costs that were put into this bill, um, at $50 and we all know how inflationary measures have been in place. Um, I know in the city of Fayetteville for any fees that we do, we actually go through a study, uh, to make sure that we do our diligence and that um all of the legalities are looked at of the um all in costs for any fees that we uh put. And so I do have concerns that You know, the city of Fayetteville versus, you know, a city of 500, um, is potentially going to have different costs involved, um, over time. We've also talked about some of our fees. We found out in our fee study recently, that we were subsidizing, um, over $2 million in the market. When we're talking about um short term rentals that are maybe, you know, unregulated and we can't cap and we have more coming into our market. Those people are in our communities for shorter periods of time. Um, we are uh sales tax based. And so when those folks are not living there every day, buying groceries and all the services that are everyday citizens are, they're not helping, you know, to contribute to the tax base, um, to take care of our community. And so I just, you know, told you our permits weren't keeping up and we've been subsidizing by 2 million. Um, so I think that there are just, um, many, uh, uh, needs that happen within the uniqueness of each city that unfortunately, um trying to crater a one size fits all approach just kind of misses the mark. And again, I appreciate that they're wanting to protect property rights. Um, I appreciate that the representative brought up about the very last line on page 4 about a local government shall not regulate the operation of a short-term rental marketplace. That really to me that I I I work a lot around different attorneys, and so I really have to say, what does that, does that kind of defeat, you know, kind of the entire thing. Does that seem to shut down, you know, any ability to regulate at all. And so, you know, I have questions about that as well. Um. And whenever we talk about clear and reasonable regulations. I just have to ask, you know, how are urban and rural areas treated the same, you know, something that's designed and said to be clear and reasonable, um, you know, those are such, you know, different places that would maybe say something's clear and reasonable in one manner in an urban environment um versus a rural environment. Um, and I think there was a comment made about that they swore an oath to listen to our community. Um, I did that as well, um, and again, like I said when I started, um, I had no idea how much I'd get to learn about short term rentals. Um, our community and the city of Fayetteville, and honestly urban and rural communities are continuing to express the desire for there to be the ability to have local control because we do have movement, you know, we went through a pandemic, things have been changing. Uh, we have a university community that's a third of our population. There are lots of pressures that are unique to Fayetteville, and I really ask that you consider that each of our towns should be honored for their uniqueness and their ability to take care of the community the way that their voters see fit. And I'd be happy to take any questions. Thank you. We do have a question, Representative Pilkington, you're recognized. Thank you, thank you, chair. Um, you know, it's, it's, it's interesting you brought up like ability to own homes and, and the housing shortage, you know. Uh, there was an, there was a home built in my neighborhood and it was bought up by someone who wanted to do an Airbnb and what the builder did. Was he built another home next to that one. And when he sells that one, he'll build another home. And that's the market reacting to the demand for homes. And what I, so what I think is interesting is because homes are getting bought up, builders know that there is a demand for it and we'll build more homes because the issue with the housing crisis is a supply issue, not a demand issue. And so I'm curious, you talk about this will exacerbate the problem, but, you know, Regulations cost for, was it 24.3% according to the National Home Builders Association, the cost of home construction. Is there anything the city of Fayetteville is doing to lower the regulatory burden and cost to build new homes, because I think that would actually be more helpful than regulating something that is actually shown to actually increase home building because it shows that there's an increased demand for the desire to have those homes. Thank you, Representative. That's a great question. Yes, um, uh, we have a new mayor that's come in with a lot of energy. I just, you know, said that I've had two years of talking about, you know, we declared a housing crisis in April of last year. Um, we've had, we established a housing crisis task force who came forward with some recommendations made up of some of our building community, our architects, you know, financers, renters, homeowners, and yes, I think we have to pull all the levers. Um, unfortunately, um we're lucky that we have the University of Arkansas land. Institution. However, the market hasn't been able to keep up pace and you're right, um, I think that we have ownership too, and I think we're looking at um the things that we can do as well. Um, I actually have been talking to our community development services director Jonathan Kurth, and we've actually been able, um, to decrease from uh 23 to 24, the number of days to getting a product to market, um, I'm, I'm very excited about that and we've actually, um, just approved and uh our last council, I'm sorry. It's on our agenda to hopefully approve uh next week additional staff so that we can try to reduce the amount of time that uh it's taking to get uh, um, things to, to, to market and occupied. So yes, I mean, I think we all have a role to play in that. Just unfortunately, yeah, we're, we're behind by thousands of units in the city of Fayetteville in particular, so it's going to take a lot of different solutions, and I think we're, we're ready, you know, to do that work. Thank you. Seeing no further questions. Thank you for your testimony. Thank you. Next on the list speaking for. Um, Matt. Dala deer Delari. You will introduce yourself for the record, you're. Recognize. Thank you, Mr. Chair. My, my name is Matt Delatier. I'm a a homeowner here in Little Rock, uh, I think what was this whole conversation boils down to it's, it's individual rights versus, you know, government authority. It's, we have had a lot of special interest groups lobby, uh, our legislative bodies to the state and local level to obviously reduce competition for small business owners in favor of corporate, um, hospitality, large hotels, all of that. All right, so I'm a perfect example of, um, I've been, I don't want to say discriminated against, but I've been, uh, denied short-term rental, uh, my STR2 application was denied last year in the city of Little Rock. All right, so I, I bought this home in uh October of 2023. I knew that the city ordinance in Little Rock was. Uh, had been passed and where you had to do this application and all that. We reached out to the city, we did the right thing. We told them we were going to apply. We were told by the board, yes, we have 33 homes approved at the at the at this point in time, um, there's no problem, even if you have a little bit of opposition, there's no problem. You guys are gonna be passed, all right? Uh, so going off that information, we did our research. I'm, again, I'm an Arkansas native. I currently live in Massachusetts right now, 8 months out of the year, but I'm an Arkansas native. I served. Uh, out of my 21 years in the military, 15 years were Sergeant the Arkansas Guard while deployed 4 times. So um this is my home, uh, so that's why we came back to Little Rock. My children live here, all right, so my during my military service, we were, we were divorced. My, my children live here, which is why I came back to, to Little Rock. Uh, so we bought a home doing the right thing, applied to the STR. We went to the first meeting. We had one neighbor in opposition, uh. So we were denied, um, we came back in April of last year, uh, for the appeal, the city board of directors, uh, also denied us, so I live in the 3rd ward. The vice mayor is against Airbnb short term rentals. So she, she actually came to us in error and uh was said, hey, I'm going to support you in this, in this, uh, against this uh short term rental for these, for these people, which she thought we were the neighbors and so she was, how can we have a fair represent representative body when the mayor of the city board of directors is reaching out to neighbors and, you know, and saying we're going to support against or for or whatever. So it's, you know, so now it's a, it causes us, it caused us a financial burden, so. Um, we were obviously denied. We we're still following the law. We're doing 29 days or more on our short term rentals. Fortunately we were able to uh to meet the, the, uh, we were able to have our house rented, but it's still a financial risk because we we still haven't been approved for an STR2. Um, so this year we're forced to to rent the home long term and I'm going to have to find another home to to stay with my children for 4 months out of the year, which is when I live here. So it's I know that people are saying we have, you know, these homes are these places are hotels or whatever, that's not the case in every instance. This is my home. Uh, I, I invested $65,000 of my own money to renovate the home, furnish it, and place and build a place for my children, one of which is special needs, which is another reason why I came here. But the, the government does not care. It is a blanket policy you apply to the board, they say yes or no based on a popularity contest, it seems there's no other reason why I, I'm a veteran. I paid my taxes. I have no criminal record. I am an outstanding citizen. I'm a disabled veteran. I mean, all of this stuff. I worked at Lockheed Martin, uh, there was no reason why. I, I should not be able to have a short term rental, um, I, and I have a vested interest in making sure that I don't have a sexual predator in my home. I live across from the Holy Soul's School. I am adamant about not having a sexual predator in my home. I'm also financially vested in that property because I lived there 4 months out of the year with my children, so I'm going to screen every applicant, but none of that matters. It doesn't matter. It's, these are hotels, the, the parking issue, whatever, it's that's a peripheral issue that doesn't think matters. You have all of these people who can potentially come into your home or, or, and you know, be a menace or a threat to society or whatever. Well, I would also argue those same people can rent hotel rooms or whatever, just as easily as they can a short-term home, uh, or rent a property in in Little Rock. And the arguments are, the arguments against um the short-term rentals because of deviant people or all of that and crime and all of that. It's a farce, and it's, it's, it's grandstanding, it's gas lighting, all of that crime. can happen in any other home in the city and any other hotel room, which I would argue more crime happens in hotels, uh, on a general basis anyway, but none of that's mentioned. So, again, my point is, I would, I would encourage this body to take into account the small business owner, the small person in the in the the own these rep these uh individual short term homes and And advocate for their, on their behalf, and I think the representative here for bringing this legislation to the board and fighting for constitutional rights, fighting for property rights, and fighting for the the small business owner. Uh, who was going against all of these special interest lobby lobbyists in the hospitality business who have gotten the ear of the state and local government bodies. That's all it is. And so, that's that's all I say is just please. Do what you swore to do and uphold and represent the the individual people of this state and these towns versus large corporations and let legal citizens manage their property in a way that they see fit, if they commit crimes, if there's a crime on the property, absolutely take that as a case by case basis, but don't blanket. Pass legislation that prevents people from small business enterprise and managing their properties as they see fit. And I'm very passionate about this, so I thank you all for uh listening to me. Thank you. Thank you. If y'all please hold hold your applause. We don't do that in this committee rooms, so. Please refrain from that. Um, thank you for your testimony. Thank you for your service. Next on the list. Um, looks like we have a group of people that signed up together, um, Mayor Hot Spring City Attorney Pat McHugh, Bill Burrow, and Brian Albright. Fuel all come to the table and introduce yourselves. You're recognized to proceed. Good morning, Mr. Chair and committee members, uh, thank you very much for allowing us to to uh provide testimony today. My name is Pat McCabe. I'm the mayor of the city of Hot Springs, uh, 2 chairs down and our city manager, Mr. Bill Burrow, and adjacent to me is our city attorney, uh, Mr. uh Brian Albright. Uh, the city of Hot Springs has created an ordinance to govern uh short term rentals. I'm happy to say that it is not overly restrictive, nor is it onerous and it certainly is not arbitrary. Our community came together with a very stakeholders, uh, those in the real estate, those who are an investment world, those who are neighbors and residents, um, and we joined together over numerous months to create a ordinance that was As I indicated just a second ago, not overly restrictive nor onerous nor arbitrary. Our regulations are specific to hot springs. It meets the needs of our communities, both those from the business perspective and those from the residential perspective. Uh, we have STR within the residential, uh, neighborhoods, but we also have uh SDRs within the commercial, uh, districts. You know, we don't have the issues among our stakeholders within our community, you know, we've worked with them hand in hand to create, uh, ordinance that, that we all bought into. Currently we're expanding our STR ordinances to take into consideration those who are, who are totally disabled vets from a service connected disability. And so we'll be addressing that on Tuesday night and I anticipate that'll be 100% approved, so we, uh, we constantly look for opportunities to, to, uh, meet the needs of our residents and certainly within the STR, those who are permanently disabled veterans through. servers connected disabilities is, is paramount to that, and we're going to continue to look for opportunities to expand. But I'm gonna close at this time and, and yield to Bill and Brian to provide uh further comments. I would just like to back up just for a moment and first of all, thank you for the opportunity to speak before you, um, this whole issue in in Arkansas anyway really came about out of a uh Supreme Court decision out of our county, uh, and, and, and we had a a situation where a 1953 bill of assurance prohibited commercial use in a neighborhood. STR uh came in and short term rental began in a home. The neighborhood didn't like it, said it violated their bill of assurances and they sued. Our Supreme Court has said, and we must agree. Uh, until they say otherwise, uh, that a short term rental is not commercial. That it is residential and so while I won't go so far as, uh, Mr. Henderson's statement that it is commercial and that it may be residential. It is a business. As the last speaker just said, it's a small business. It produces income. This is, this bill is not about home ownership. Our home is where we live. It's where we raise our family it's not what we rent out and earn income off of it's not what we pay taxes on. And that's another issue that uh I, I want to bring up as well. This, this, this uh bill as presented, uh, and many have have pointed this out, but it states that any regulations on a local basis cannot be more burdensome than any other regulation. That applies to all residential properties all residential property is not the same. There are, there are homes that we live in. Uh, owner occupied, there are long term leases and then there are short term leases. And our own fire code that the state adopts and that then local municipalities are able to adopt through ordinance, treat them all differently. If we have to, if we have to treat, uh, transient use the same as we do owner occupied under the fire code, we're not gonna be able to do any inspections. We're not gonna be able to see that they have, uh, smoke detectors we're not gonna be able to discover whether or not there is a basement that has 12 bunk beds where kids are gonna sleep and if there's a fire, there's no exit except coming up the steps. Things of that nature truly do matter on a local basis. Uh, the other comments that were made that we're gonna, we're creating a regulatory framework that will enhance the revenue, uh, that, that is collected on a local level. Well, in the city of Hot Springs, our voters voted long ago to do away with millage. We have no local advalorum tax on our property. It's all sales tax. If we have to treat a transit use short term rental. Stay by the night. The same as a homeowner. There is no sales tax. There is no hospitality tax. If the occupancy changes and, and, and we don't have permanent residents living there, some of your communities may see a change in your turn back. Your population may actually change. It's not about the permit fee. We don't, we're not, we're not trying to make money off of a permit fee. What we are trying to do is to is to generate the tax base that is necessary to provide this very services that we would provide a homeowner. Who's not a homeowner. Bill. And thank you for allowing fuel, hit that button and turn your mic on, please. Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to, uh, to speak to you today. You know, there's has to be a balance between owner-occupied long-term rentals and short-term rentals, uh, to keep a community sustainable. We have done that in the city of Hot Springs. We spent over 4 years meeting with various stakeholders and groups to come up with a balance, but even after that, after our ordinance was passed, we made amendment after amendment after amendment as we learned what our community needed and, and what was best for. our community. One of the things, you know, is more short, short term rentals, uh, started prolificating. We saw less affordable housing options for workers putting out and puts owning a home almost out of reach for many Arkansans, um, and this may be different in different communities, but the city of Hot Springs certainly understands the need for tourism and the tourism dollars that flow into our city. We're one of the largest tourist attractions, uh, in the state of Arkansas, um, in a recent publication using data from Zillow.com. A DNA, the city of Hot Springs data shows 79% of our Airbnbs are commercially operated. Uh, this is up from about 72% in 2020. The growing trend of commercial investors buying a residential homes to convert properties into short term rentals is harming communities as neighbors are replaced with a revolving door of strangers through the prolification of short-term rentals and communities and popular vacation destinations across Arkansas, commercial operators are increasing the cost to rent or buy a home by taking large swaths of potential housing off the market for local residents. We are seeing this happen in our hometown of Hot Springs. Uh, beyond the deterioration of neighborhoods or the feeling of no longer having a true neighbor, there is an upside to this trend, but again, the balance is what is important. We have seen an older part of our city be revitalized through remodeling of homes that were soon to be beyond repair. That is certainly, uh, something that was a positive thing for that particular neighborhood. He was primarily due to the development of 30 miles of mountain biking trails in our Northwoods, uh, north of Hot Springs. We have seen immense growth of short-term rentals in 3 primary areas of our community. I just mentioned the Northwood trails, uh, Oak Lawn Racing Casino Resort, and also around the, the, uh, parts of the lake that we have there in, in town. We're short term rentals have made improvements in one area. The adverse can be said for another. Uh, as I mentioned, we worked for the better of 4 years on current ordinance governing short-term rentals working towards the balance I mentioned. We had multiple public comment sessions and have come to a point where we hear less from both sides, those pro and con of short term rentals. We currently have 751 licensed short-term rentals within our city limits with 413 of those being in residential zones. Her current cap in residential zones is 400. Uh, we have seen over the past few years, um, and somebody mentioned earlier, the market does tend to take care of itself over a few years, but you have to have some impetus to make that happen. Um, in 2023, we saw 59 short-term rental licenses deactivated in 2431 and so far in 25, we've seen 12, and these are basically some short-term rentals that are going back into the long, long term rental, uh. Pool As we continue to see this trend, I mean, we're at 4:13, uh, they have till May to, to relicense and and the feeling that we have in our planning department as well as, as my office is, we'll probably see us fall below our cap, uh, in May of, of 2025, which will bring others on. There's always some that will be willing to, uh, to move forward and take that risk. We heard from one, this evening or this, this afternoon. Um, on another note, safety is a huge concern for these commercial businesses, for example, in an owner-occupied or long term rental environment, you get to know the property, you know, uh, we're the closest exits are in case of a fire. You know what window sticks, which one doesn't open, which one is hard to open. Uh, you know that you have smoke detectors that are connected and, and would provide, uh, alerts should everyone in the home need to leave at the same time in an unregulated short. term rental where you may only be there for a week or weekend. You have no idea of any of these issues. This is just a small sampling, but there are two of the issues that we see most, uh, in our inspections. We don't have time to discuss all the issues related, but should someone die in an unregulated short-term rental, this legislation would have that cross to bear. The government closest to the people should make decisions impacting them, short term rental regulations is tantamount to zoning, which is obviously a local matter. Thank you. Thank you for that. Did I hear you say you you capped short term rentals at something that was less than what you currently had in city limits. So, so over the years, uh, we started out at 500 in residentially zoned areas and then we reduced it to 450 and we, and we then we reduced it to 400 when we dropped it to 400, we said that any of those that were over that limit could continue to operate, we're eligible for renewal each year, but, but as attrition came about if that number. drops below 400 will open up the applications again and that's what's happened, uh, uh, you know, we have lost some of them through attrition, um, and when we get below 400, we will allow others to apply. And they keep it at 400. What was the reason behind setting that at less than what you currently had. Well, because we didn't want to take the license away from them if they already had the license, we weren't going to take something away, we were simply going to say that at understand, understand that, but you had, say, 600, you set the cap at 500. What was the purpose of that? I'm sorry, in the residential zone. Uh, we, as we set that at 500, we saw, we became stagnant. The number of requests coming in for licenses or Neil, and we felt, OK, we've, we've hit that number. We think we found a good number, so we dropped it from 500 to 450, continues to stay low and then we moved it to 400. However, those that already had a license, we did not revoke, we just continue to let them, uh, continue to have that license continue to renew it every year, but as we start seeing this market, you know, uh, control itself in those aspects, uh, we started seeing that number come down and, and I guess the, the point is, is we worked really hard over 4 years to find that balance. Every community should do that. There is a balance for each one of our communities, uh, but having just a, uh, no regulations, you know, that is, I don't think that's the best interest for any of our, our state or our cities was your question about the 751 number. Was that your question? No, he, he answered my question, so it sounded like you did originally set the cap. You, you didn't have, you didn't have the full 500 in the residential area to start with when you set the 500 cap and then you started reducing them off of that. OK, uh, Representative Richardson, you were recognized for a question. Thank you so much, Chairman. So, uh, I'm just sort of piggyback off of uh what our chairman was going on, you originally had a cap of 500, but you didn't have 500. Permits. And so you dropped it to 450 and you still didn't have 450 permits. Correct. And so now you've dropped it to 400. Do you currently have more than 400 permits? Yes, we have 413. OK, so you have 413 permits. How many permits has the city denied this year. Uh, well, we actually don't have the portal open. It's a, it's a portal mechanism, so there's not a way to apply, but that's, that's only in the residentialally zoned areas that's not in a condominiums, HPRs, uh, or in commercial areas. It's just in the neighborhoods. Certainly, I appreciate that. So, so the at the end result is. The city dropped it to a point that they could stop people from applying for STRs. And prevent them from having access to to use their STRs instead of leaving it at the original cap where people could continue to apply if they had that need. Is that uh I understanding that correctly? Yes, based on the annual renewal numbers that were coming in. We've been doing this for about 4 years. OK. Thank you very much. Yes, sir. Seeing no further questions, thank you for your testimony. Excellent list we have Hal Hillman. We will take seat and introduce yourself for the record, you may begin, Chairman and committee members. I appreciate all that you do, my wife and I. Don't have the constitutional fortitude to do what y'all do, and we appreciate your service for whichever side you. You're on this bill. I'm a farmer My wife and I have row crop. Rice, soybeans. Corn And to me this is about property rights. And I had a lot of things to say. But in the interest of time I'm just gonna point back to these two vets and what they've said and appreciate them for their service and move on. Thank you for your testimony. Next on the list, uh, uh Octavian. So. If you'll introduce yourself for the record, you may begin. If you will hit that button, it should turn your mic on. Hey, kid, do you mind? Well, I can probably do it for you reach over there and turn that other one off. It's, it's done, sorry. I thought we could do that without you, but thanks for, thanks for trying to help. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, members of the committee. Uh, my name is Octavio Sanchez. I live in Bentonville, uh, coincidentally, I'm a member of city council, but I'm not here to represent them or the city or anybody else. It is uh I'm here only to present my personal opinion on the difficult subject of short term rentals, uh, I don't own any short term rental, and I don't have any financial interest on anything associated with. Um, I understand that you are trying to provide a statewide solution which is part of their responsibilities given to you by the citizens of Arkansas and I appreciate your dedication to it. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are fundamental elements in the American society also the right of property ownership are very important and elevated. However, some rights have to be limited as we do speed limits on the highway blood content in the, in the blood and I'm sorry, alcohol content in the blood and many others. Uh, it is important to note that your rights and where my rights begin. Uh, in the case of short term rentals, the city of Bentonville created a work group that met regularly for about a year and determined that we don't need additional regulations. Uh, we need the system to work by itself. Uh, so we don't regulate SDRs. But at the same time, we don't want to lose the ability that we may regulate their operation. Too much of a good thing is bad, and it seems to me that this bill is uh that you're considering is one solution that excessively leans on the side of property owners that operate SDRs. The large majority of SDR operators. are decent individuals or corporations trying to make an honest profit by providing a unique service that is different from a hotel experience, but there are a few operators that you'll not want in your neighborhood. Somebody may buy an apartment building and rent. and rent each unit to be as an SDR. Uh, there is one that's more like a commercial operation similar to a hotel perhaps located in a residential neighborhood also. Uh, in many cases, the clients of the STRs are adults and some of them celebrate in excess disturbing the peace of their neighbors. Each of the cities in the state, each of the cities in the state is different than the next one that is why I ask you respectfully to give more freedom to the cities of Arkansas to provide their individual solutions to the to the to SDRs since they are the ones closest to the specific problems that they are experiences experiencing please vote no to the current version of the bill, HB 1445. You don't need to penalize 500 cities for the perceived scenes of the few, um, thank you. Thank you for your testimony. Any questions from committee members? Seeing none, you're dismissed. I'm gonna go ahead and make an announcement, um, we still have several people signed up to speak for and against this bill. My plan would be to go till 12:30 and then if we're not done by then, we'll recess, um, give time, everybody time to get lunch, we'll go to session and then come back after session and continue this. With that being said, we're on to Pam Hill. If you'll come to the table and introduce yourself, you're recognized to begin. Hello, uh, Chairman and committee members. Thank you for your time. I'm gonna go really fast, so forgive me if you have a question, just. Yeah, um. My name is Pam Hill. I do live in Little Rock, um, but I actually have a, uh, cabin in Cersey County, um, it's in Silverhill, if you know where that is. It's about, uh, 2 miles from the Buffalo River. I purchased the cabin initially because I got tired of my family of 5 sleeping on my brother's floor who lived in Gilbert, Arkansas. Uh, he has a one bedroom little house. It's kind of run down and we needed a place to stay. So I purchased this cabin last year, less than a year. So I'm new to this, so give me a little grace. Um, We discovered within a month of purchasing the cabin that I not only incurred the cost of the cabin, but I had to spend $50,000 to fix some logs in the cabin. It was not going to function well from then on out. And we had to do something. We couldn't incur. Through my job, um, The cost of the cabin, the cost of $50,000 to repair. And so we decided to do short term rental. It was impulsive at the time, honestly, but I've been so pleased with this community. I'm so pleased with our guest, and that's what I consider them. And honestly, my family has used this cabin more than we've even rented it out, but it's helped me. Recoup a little bit. It, it's about property rights. Everybody's talking about these big bad things that go on and these big bad things that happen in Fayetteville or Hot Springs or Little Rock, but most of us are just one, you know, property owner, one short-term rental owner. Most of us want to have the right. To try to manage our life and try to manage our finances and try to maybe make it and eke out, you know, some nice, um, situations for our family. We love Arkansas. Oh, I'm so proud of this state. I'm so proud of the rural part of the state. I am, if I could move to Cercy County tomorrow, I would, but I drive back and forth two hours all the time because I love it up there and I of this cabin, but Being able to have the ability to use this is really only allowed by being able to use short term rental, um, There's a lot I wanted to say, a lot, it's already gone over. Um, I don't have much more, but it's, it's my blood, sweat and tears that we have put into this. We have put in so much work and it is about protection. It is about y'all protecting my right as a property owner. I'm not a big business. I'm not a hotel. I'm not renting to people that are having parties. I know everybody's name that comes and stays at my cabin of the 365. days in the past year, I've rented it maybe 55 days, and the rest of the time, my family has gone up there and stayed. So this is, this is not about Limiting or punishing, you know, what you perceive as this massive, you know, money grab or or anything like that. It's about, it's about my cabin. It's about my cabin. It's about me being able to fix it up. It's about, you know, it's not about the scare tactics. It's not about, um, Anything, you know, we vet those people. We vet the situation. We have smoke alarms, we have fire, you know, protection. We have, you know, everything in there that y'all have voiced concerns about, and it's just literally about property rights and about letting other people that I love and my friends and family, you know, coming and enjoying parts of the state that are beautiful and gorgeous, and, um, So all I have to say. I really appreciate you for your time. Thank you. Seeing no questions from committee members. You dismissed. Thank you for your testimony. Next on the list, uh, Umang Patel. If you will introduce yourself for the record, you may begin. Good morning Uh, er Gonzalez and committee members, uh. My name's Umang Patel. Uh, I was raised and spent, uh, all of my life in the Conway and Little Rock area, um, there's been a lot of points brought up today, so I'll try to keep it as short as possible. Uh, I'm 2nd generation, uh, hotelier and have worked in the industry for about 25 years. I own hotels in the central Arkansas area and a lifetime member of Ahoa, um, without regulation, uh, STR properties can operate with little to no oversight. This means they may not adhere to the building codes, fire safety. measures or health standards potentially putting guests at risk. When guests choose STRs, they might not realize that they're booking an accommodation that hasn't been inspected and in many cases they might not be covered by insurance in case something goes wrong. Meanwhile, hotels like ours must carry the burden of responsibility for each guest's safety. A lack of regulation is a threat not only to our business but also to the very safety of those who stay in these unregulated properties. We support a level playing field for all lodging businesses operating in our state. This way guests can be confident in where they stay, and we can continue to provide high quality security experiences. Uh, recently we built a Hampton Inn at the Little Rock Airport and over the course of 2 years, we went through about 25 mechanical, electrical, and plumbing and ADA inspections, 3 fire marshal inspections, 5 Hilton inspections, including a letter from the city stating that we are ADA compliant. Uh, this gives you an idea of all the security measures that we have to take, um, so that's, I just wanted to speak on that. So thank you for allowing me to speak on the opposition of HP 1445. Thank you for that, seeing no questions from committee members. Thank you for your testimony, your dismissed. Thank you. Thank you. Stuart Berry Hill Probably know the routine by now. Introduce yourself for the record and you can start. Hello, my name is Stuart Berryhill. I've been a local Airbnb owner since 2021, uh, here's my strong not long testimony so we can Get lunch and not think on an empty stomach. I own multiple short term short term rentals, but specifically, What I would like to bring to light today is my own home where I live in Little Rock, Arkansas. In which I Airbnb a private room in it in order to host a short-term rental. I had to go through a very long, not efficient rezoning process for my own house. In which I was required to get an abstract list for all the owners that were 500 ft from me. Send certified mail, that was a headache, and have it passed in a town hall meeting where it could have been denied to have its own correctly, which was not a cheap process. Having an Airbnb in my home has greatly helped me financially, especially in our inflationary economy. People wanting to be homeowners, young people, many of my friends, they house hack their properties as well, just like they bundle in a home together at Fayetteville, Arkansas when they're in college, uh, with, who knows how many people in the long term rental, my buddies will long term rental their own house as well, just as I short term rental my own house, so I have roommates, they'll have another side of a duplex. Do whatever they need to do accordingly to help pay the bills. Side note, as an owner of a short term rental and long term rentals, I can assure you that short term rentals stay much cleaner, safer, and preserve the property a lot better with how often they are being cleaned, and if they are not, the market will review it accordingly, and it won't be booked. Forgive me, but I believe it is government overreach to have a say on what I do in my own private property, in my own home that I live in. You can trust me when I say that no one. will protect my house and my property better than me. I asked that our representatives in government don't forget that. I'm 41445. Thank you. Thank for your testimony saying no questions, you're dismissed. Next on the list, uh, this. I'm having trouble. It looks like a BW Patel, um. We have a You will Introduce yourself for the record, you may begin your testimony. Hello, good morning. You'll hit OK, never mind, we got. Thank you. Um, actually, my name is Parth Patel, Beau had to step out, so I'm speaking in his behalf. Um, Good morning. Thank you, Chairman and esteemed committee members for allowing myself to speak. My name is Part Patel, and I'm from Hot Springs, Arkansas. I'm the president of Vipa Hospitality. We own and operate 6 hotels in the Hot Springs area. And we are also redeveloping the beautiful medical arts building in downtown Hot Springs. In addition to being a hotelier, I'm have a unique perspective as I also own a STR uh condominium on Lake Hamilton, um. In in Hot Springs. Um, I've been in the hotel industry for 20 years. And You know Um, I come before you oppose this bill because in the language of the bill, it takes away some regulations that oversee uh the short term rental market. So when I had to go through my process of the kind of for short term rental, I had to You know, change out some windows in a, in a bedroom that did not have a secondary exit, uh, to allow a guest to exit that bedroom in case of a fire. Um, and you know, a couple other things like adding the carbon monoxide detectors, fire extinguishers, I just for the safety, uh life safety of the guest. And where, that's no different from a hotel, uh, in a hotel, you know, I have to have, um, sprinkler systems, fire alarms, um, and then proper insurance also to To make sure every guest is, is safe in our rooms when they come to stay. Um, you know, as a hotel industry, we're not against short term rentals. We're not here to say that we're against short term rentals. Uh, I personally am against some of the language of the bill. Uh, I just want a fair, we just want a fair level playing field in terms of life safety, uh, laws. Uh, because the way I look at it, whether I have an 80 room Hampton Inn or a two-bedroom condo. I'm still an innkeeper at the end of the day. I'm still accepting reservations from people around the state around the country, potentially around the world, whether they come stay at one of our hotels or come stay at, at my condo that I short term rent to. And um that's all I'm here to speak on is, is, um, we, we just ask for a level playing field, um, as far as short-term rentals are concerned. Thank you. It looks like we have one question, uh. Representative Shepherd, you're recognized. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair and thank you for being here today, sir. I'm over here, um. You made a statement that you want an equal playing field and you like to see language changed in the bill. What particular language? Um Well, I think the language based the that basically states uh that takes away regulation at the local level. Um, I think we need that, uh, we need the, we need local communities to be able to To make short term rental ordinances, uh, for their for their communities, so not only are the guests, uh, that check in to the short-term rentals safe, but then, but the neighborhoods and the communities, uh, maintain safety as well. Thank you. Thank you for your testimony. Larry Kelly. Be speaking for You will introduce yourself for the record. You may begin. Yes sir, thank you for allowing me to speak. I've been involved in this conversation for quite a long time. I was in this room. Last session And uh my name is Larry Kelly. I own a real estate company in Northwest Arkansas. Larry Kelly and Associates Realty. I've been in the real estate business for 40 years. That's right, 40. I'm an old guy. And uh that entire time I have made it my. My, uh, uh, purpose to support private property rights. And it's not only my purpose, but it's also the purpose of the policy statements of the National Association of Realtors, which I'm a, a member of. And in fact, if you'll allow me to, um, I'll tell you what their policy is, and this is not only a policy, it's enshrined in law. There's much case law that supports the right of someone to rent their property. And it says among the core rights that a property owner has is the right to lease or rent the property. This right has long been recognized by the courts and for example, the Supreme Court of Connecticut in this case has explained that the right to rent is one of the important sticks in the bundle of property rights, stating that it is undisputable that the right of property owners to rent their real estate is one of the bundle of rights that taken together constitute the essence of ownership of property and owners of a single. family residences, which we are talking about. Uh, can do one of three economically productive things with the resident, that is to live in it, rent it or sell it. And the length of time of that rental does not constitute any different use. There's a lot of misinformation, uh, there's a lot of. misconstruction. And there's a lot of misstatements. Uh, that get made about short term rentals. And I think what this bill, HB 1445 does is try to find some parody where residential properties are treated equally. That's the parody. I believe the last speaker was talking about parity with Hotels I don't think that's the parody that we should be seeking. We should be seeking parity with residential use, um. Overreach I believe that some of these municipalities have really overreached and, and restricting those rights, and I think that's what this legislation seeks to do is set some boundaries and guidelines to that overreach and some of these communities that have actually already spoken, um, there are lawsuits that are, are fighting that over restriction, uh, so there's, there's cases operating now in Bella Vista, Arkansas there was a a lawsuit after. They enacted their ordinance and was one. Um, the city of Austin, Texas passed a restrictive short-term rental ordinance in 2016. It was overturned by the courts. So are we gonna leave it to the court system to fight that, and I tell you why property owners don't necessarily do that, and that's because. As has testimony has been given today. Most of these are owned by individuals. It's a little bit more difficult to get every short term rental owner to organize and to pony up some funds to hire an attorney to fight the city. But we're seeing it anyway. We're just not seeing it in large scale. I would hope that We were taken into consideration some of the stories we've heard also where. You know, I'm in in the real estate business, I see people in this economic uh atmosphere, uh, seeking to uh subsidize their, their revenue. You know, we, things have gotten a lot more expensive in a short period of time. I see it in my neighborhood. I see it in, in, in the marketplace and sometimes as the the the person that was talking about spending the money on the rehab. Sometimes rehabbing those properties gets so expensive that the numbers for long term rental just simply don't work. It may not be that that and and she stated that she didn't seek to set up a short term rental but to have a part-time occupancy for her and her family, that's predominantly what we see. I, I, and, and, and so you can't make the numbers work on long term rental. If you spend $50,000 rehabbing that property, chances are you're gonna have to make a little more revenue to make that work. I see it in investment properties in our marketplace now. So the affordability question comes into play. How do I use this property, um, the, uh, Retirees. You know what I see a lot of people that, that as was also given in testimony that they might have this home and maybe it's a decision to retire and downsize. So they're gonna move into something smaller. But they decided that in order to support their retirement that they might need to rent this property. If uh if some of these ordinances as they're written and and being an acted uh restrict their ability to do a short term rental, it restricts that retiree's ability to generate revenue sufficient enough for that property, highest and best use is the term we use in real estate, uh, for their benefit so it restricts them. Uh, I believe in a free enterprise system. I believe that um that if we have too many short term rentals, the marketplace will regulate that. They won't survive and if you don't have a good short term rental if it's not in good condition. Then no one will rent from you. The marketplace is very unforgiving. And the standards are quite high for short term rentals. If you don't get a 5 star and I've, I've, I've stayed in short term rentals. Let me tell you what that owner was calling me every day. Is there anything I can do to help you? Is there anything that would not give me a 5 star rating. Those properties are some of the best properties you could stay in. So, uh, I don't believe this legis legislation takes away any community, uh, ability to, to oversee short term rentals. I believe it sets some boundaries for that, and I think that we need boundary. Thing for that testimony, seeing no questions from committee members, you're dismissed. Andy Patel You'll introduce yourself, you may begin. Thank you, Chairman. um. And the committee member to allow me to speak before you today. I'm here to uh to speak as a hotelier, um, my name is Andy Patel, the president of the Span Hospitality who owns and operate around 15 hotels throughout the Arkansas, um, and I'm a 2nd generation hotelier uh worked this industry for last more than 30 years, uh, since I came in this country, um, I'm a lifetime member of Ahoa Asian Hotel Owner Association, who are the largest uh organizers and for the hotel owners in the country and in the world, those members uh who are part of Dahua, uh, who owns the more than 60% hotels in the US and the 90% hotels in the state of Arkansas. So the most important things here that I'm here to speak in opposition of HB 1445 and it is very important to know that we are not against the short term rental here. I repeat again, we are not here to against the short term rental operating in our. Arkansas, but we support a level playing field, field for all lodging business operating in our state without a level playing field, this and regulated short term rentals can dramatically reduce demands for the professional accommodation like hotels and many other things and my fellow hoteliers speak out a few other stuff also with that, so I'm not gonna repeat that for hotels to remain competitive 3 there needs to be a fair regularity framework that all the accommodation providers play by the same rules without this, the economic disparity between Airbnb host and hotel will continue to adore our revenues, ultimately impacting job stability, quality of the service and the local economies, hotel operate under all the local audience regarding noise, trash, taxis, and parking and uh my fellow hoteliers Umang Patel said that about his Hampton Inn at the airport, how hotel has to. go through about the regulation, the same requirements should be applied to the short term rentals. We need regulation to protect both our businesses and our communities from unbalanced competition. Let's stand together and ensure fair play for all. Please do not pret local governors and oversight on short term rentals by cities and counties. This would have long lasting negative impact on hospitality and tourism in the state of Arkansas. Thank you, Chair Gonzalez again allowing me to speak. For this part I appreciate it. Thank you for your testimony, no questions, you're dismissed. Vanji Heftian. If you will introduce yourself for the record, you may begin. Good morning. Thank you for allowing me to speak. I am Vanji Hefron. I am a resident of Bella Vista, Arkansas. I'm also a realtor in that area and I have worked with many short-term rental, um, purchasers and I've also done property management of some of those that I do not own. My husband and I own two as well. We did own 5 at one time, but has been spoken about just things change and it became a better option for us to sell 3 of those. Um, today I would like to give you the story of one of my owners that I worked with. He purchased a house in the Springdale area because it was the right house for them, but they were not yet ready to move to Arkansas. So I managed that house as a short term rental for about 2 years, and in the fall they were able to move here from California, where they were trying to get away from the extreme government overreach regulations, just the environment. That California had become and so they have moved to this area. Their property was very well taken care of because of that, and I want to speak today about freedom. Yes, property rights have been addressed a lot, but our country was founded on the idea of limited government and we are seeing even from people who have spoken today that cities are overreaching. They are putting egregious at times and very onerous regulations on people even without a grandfather clause, even if you're already operating, they will come in. They have in Bella Vista and shut you down. Because you did not meet regulations that were not expected of residential owners, specifically in the case of septic inspections that were required originally. They no longer are, thank you to the lawsuit that was um. found in our favor, but the idea that septic inspections have to happen on a short-term rental, but not regular everyday housing just shows that there is more of a power grab or something going on behind the scenes than actually trying to protect the public, which is the, the purpose of laws is to protect the public and to have a functioning society, but that is not what is happening in some of our cities, um, my husband and I have one property at the lake. It is the only way that we are able to have a proper. at the lake. Our family uses it extensively, but we do rent it out to help pay for it. And I just appreciate that opportunity. It's made a huge difference in our family. Thankfully, that is not currently within any city bureaucracy, but I would just appreciate if you would consider the fact that this really is also not just a property rights issue, but it is a freedom issue. Um, we don't need more regulation in Bella Vista, the majority, I think every single one of the ordinances that have to do with short-term rentals were covered in pre-existing, um, city ordinances. Many people that I spoke with who had issues with short term rentals, and I spoke with them extensively, other residents, they would complain about things like noise, trash, parking, all those are already covered. There didn't need to be a separate law. It's just targeting the owners of short-term rentals. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your testimony, seeing no questions, you're dismissed. Daniel knew Speaking against You'll introduce yourself for the record. Uh You may begin. Uh, good morning or almost afternoon now, uh, Chairman Gonzalez committee members, thank you for allowing me to speak. My name is Danielle Nu. I am the senior director of government affairs for the Asian American Hotel Owners Association or AOA for short. I know y'all have already heard from some of our members. I do want to let y'all know they also do speak on behalf of our general stance when it comes to this issue of short term rentals across the nation, whether it's been in Georgia, Florida, New York, Kentucky, all the way to New Mexico and Arizona where these issues arise. We have always maintained the same stance with other lodging associations that we're only asking for parity if they're willing and going to be acting as if um for temporary stay just like our hotels in many aspects, then we just ask that they also have to meet some of the same rules. I know some of our members have gone across and talked about some of the Permits they have to go through, inspections, and just general um standards that they have to meet and we just want to make sure that all guests are safe because whether it's a short term rental or a hotel, once you start having some bad apples in there, it does hurt the industry as a whole, and that's not anything we'd want for our members. So I know one of our speakers prior talked about the Aspect of how um How much our members just to give you more of information about our membership in Arkansas. There's about 747 hotels that are owned by our members or that's almost 90% of that is 47,199 rooms. So we're talking about an average hotel size of about 63 rooms, so we're not talking about large hotels. Most of our members are more the smaller independent hotels, the economy that, you know, you have your family stay whether they're coming to celebrate the birth of a child graduation, maybe not this time of year, but, you know, Sports, uh, sports tournaments outside when it's a little bit less gloomy. So those are who our members are, they're part of the fabric of your community, so please listen to them, we appreciate the. What you guys are aiming for to help boost tourism, because we are all for that, but we just ask that you hear the concerns that our membership has had on this issue. And we are here to be a resource for you all to talk about what we've seen that's been successful or has actually harmed the tourism industry despite best efforts. So I just want to let y'all know that I am here as a resource, and again, we are, we have nothing against short term rentals. Our stance has always been for parity and level playing field as we all are working for the same thing to boost tourism and make, in this case, Arkansas, a great state to come visit and possibly live. Thank you for your testimony saying no questions from committee members you're dismissed. Thank you. Ramonda May speaking for. And This is the last person that we have signed up speaking for and there's still several against just to let y'all know what's going on. If you will hit that button and turn your mic on, please. Thank you. Good afternoon. Thanks for allowing me to speak. My name is Ramonda Mays. I'm not representing uh anyone except for myself. I am from Pine Bluff. I am a um Single short term rental owner. The Aus for shorter short term rental to supplement my income. This helps me to upkeep my home as well, like many others before me have said. My rental has provided uh Residential stay, short term stays for tourists, city worker working crews. Insurance agencies, uh, who's had a client who's been burned out. And I'm, I would just like to ask uh you all to allow uh Homeowners, property owners too. Uh, use their property. In the ways that they want. And I am for the article 14. Thank you for your testimony. Seeing no questions from committee members, you're dismissed. You'll introduce yourself, you may begin. I'm Becky Ragsdale, and I have lived in the downtown North Rock area for almost 20 years. My husband Bob and I, I spoke at the last time this bill came up, uh, we've lived, we had a short term rental behind our house for 17.5 years. We've, uh, witnessed every type of crime imaginable and even an attempted murder, um, when the bill failed. last time North Little Rock City Council was able to enact legislation restricting the number of short-term rentals that we had in our neighborhood to 1 every 1500 ft. We had the largest concentration in the city. And up until then, and so once that happened, we were able to stop my, um, the gentleman behind me that owned the house, turned it into a long-term rental and it's been much better. We still have parking issues, but the crime has been much, much better, and, um, and just in time for a gentleman that purchased a local apartment complex. Um, he was gonna turn them all into Airbnbs. And they put a stop to it because you could only have one Airbnb every 1500 ft. And we're just very thankful and the reason I'm opposed to this bill is because it count, it counts out the local ordinances in the local government, and that's our voice. For those of us that can't come here and be on this level all the time. Our local government is the one that's protecting us, and I'm not against short-term rentals. I've used short-term rentals, and I've seen effects of short-term rentals because I have family in Maui and it's been devastating what it's what's happened in Maui. And, but I'm not against them. I don't use them anymore because of all the fees attached and hotels to me are just better and safer and I use those now, but I'm not against anybody having I'm not against free enterprise. I'm not against you having to live someplace else and want to rent your house out where you're going. I understand all those things, but what about my constitutional right to live in a neighborhood and be free myself from the worry. And the concerns of what's going on when somebody's moving in and out every 3 or 4 days. And you don't know who they are, and, and I know somebody said that a lot of this is exaggerated and that it's not true, but I have witnessed it over and over and over and had my property damaged and called the police and had shots fired into my backyard and it's a very real thing and I just want to see our local government keep control and so we have a voice. So it, for that, I thank for your time and I hope you vote against this bill. Thank you for your testimony saying no questions from committee members you're dismissed, um, guys, we have 6 more signed up against this. I think we can just stick it out and not have to come back after session we'll, we'll just keep rolling if y'all can keep your testimony quick and try not to repeat, we, we'll work our way through this. Um, this, I'm gonna go with Miss Johnson. Like Get that right. You'll introduce yourself for the committee, you may begin. For the record Thank you for hearing me. I'm a little nervous to be in front of you guys, but um. I am, I do own Airbnb. Um, I've been hosting on that site since 2018, also because I've been considered a super host from them, um, and I've loved renting, uh, being an owner on Airbnb. I was able to buy stock in the company, so I own stock in Airbnb, and I am definitely not against short term rentals, um, I'm also that what you call the typical Airbnb owner that's been talked about here today, where you are in your community, you rent in your community, and I actually have a little, um, I have a a very, very old house was built in 1926. There was a little garage behind it that we've converted. It was like a maid's quarters way back in the day, and that is our Airbnb. I also have, um, long term duplex that is a couple of blocks away. I've also um been active on our neighborhood board for 6 years. I'm the vice president of it, so I want to explain why I think. This is a bad bill. I love hosting on Airbnb. I love the people that I meet, and I think that short term rentals can be wonderful. I think they could be wonderful to revitalize the community and so many other things that have already been said here, so I don't want to take up time with that. But the reason that I'm concerned about this bill, um, is that Um, I believe that this really helps. The platform. It helps people that are out of state and out of the communities more than it helps local entrepreneurs. Um, I believe that most people that are responsible short term owners that are really invested in their neighborhood and their local community will welcome some kind of local regulation because you are connected to your neighbors, um, I think Arkansas is one degree of separation, especially Little Rock where I live. If you speak to someone, you will know someone that knows them. So when you're really a part of that community, you want to make the community better. This bill, because it is taking away the ability for the neighbors to come to local government, to a city planning commission, for example, when someone applies to be short term rental, it doesn't allow the neighbors' voices to be heard. They're the ones that live next door to this property that's going to Become a commercial enterprise. Um, it's not designed to help local entrepreneurs. I believe it's designed to, um, put commercial ventures over people who are a permanent part of the community. Um, because what I've seen from the neighborhood standpoint and being on our neighborhood board is that when the residents come and complain about short term rentals is almost always out of state or out of community owners and they're generally run by, um, a management company. So the people that are making money on multiple short term rentals are not invested in the community. Also with this bill because there is no cap on where a community can stop the numbers of rental of short term rentals. It will tend to saturate the market, which does not help. Local entrepreneurs. What that does is helps platforms like Airbnb because yes, it will, the market will regulate itself, um, if there's a bad Airbnb or if there's 1000 Airbnbs in one local community, most of those Airbnbs are going to stay empty, but Airbnb, the company itself, is making money on every single fees on every single one of them. So it doesn't really help the community overall. It's just helping this corporate company. So when a local, local control, when you keep in local control, it'll give the neighbors an opportunity to speak for or against a short term rental when they're asking for permitting. And, um, Whether they want to allow a Commercial business next to them in a residential community. So for those reasons. I'm not asking that we get rid of short term rentals. I do not think this with this bill is about, um, but it is about some types of regulation and making sure that the people that are living around them have some say in what happens with the property next to them. I think uh a responsible short-term rental owner would respect that. Thank you Thank you for your testimony. in the Gary Sypes It's your turn. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um Committee, um, I'm here speaking. I'm Gary Sypes with the Arkansas Association of Chiefs of Police. I represent the over 300 members of the associate chiefs across the state are opposed to this bill because they are concerned about the the increase in calls that are coming like the nice lady there from North Rock said that uh she witnessed it, she lived it. And so do law enforcement officers when they get the calls the shots fired. Drunkness parking illegally and everything else nowadays in this environment, it's not just one police officer going to the scene. It's 2. Because it's so dangerous now so you're taking 2 officers off the street to answer these calls. And someone said it's not gonna cost anything. It will cost law enforcement is already struggling to keep men and women on the streets now and uh they'll, they have to increase. And uh the uh I want to say something else about the uh code enforcement, the uh the uh inspections of the rental properties. Well, that's mainly for the uh the uh. Renner Because in most cases there's a lot of people here that are real good, uh, landowner or property owners and but there's a lot of bad ones as well. The reason the uh this uh on site inspection was created was for the rental properties to go in and inspect, make sure they're safe to live in. With, uh, a little bit about the uh local control. I think it's uh very necessary. As law enforcement officer I've witnessed at North Rock Police Department. The community oriented policing along with code enforcement and regulations cleaned the city of No Rock downtown area from the interstate over uh west, and I'd invite all y'all to go take a look at it now. It's a very beautiful place where it was once drugs were sold on the streets, uh, prostitution and everything else, so yes, local regulations are quite I see that I have a question waiting. Yeah, you do. Representative Pilkington, you're recognized. Yes, uh, this it's been going on for a while, so I just wanna make sure I understand this clearly. You are one of the reasons you said that you're opposed to this bill is because you will get calls and your officers will then have to go and Do their job and answer those calls. Am I understanding you correctly? That's what you said in your testimony that you would get calls and you have to go send officers to those calls and they wouldn't be doing something else at that time. I mean, doing their job essentially is, I'm confused by how you phrase that. Could you rephrase that beginning of your testimony so that I understand more clearly. Thank you. Cause I'm, I'm not tracking. It is our duty, our sworn duty to protect citizens. And it's our Our sworn duty to answer the calls. Yes, it is. I'm saying that in this time in, in the environment, it takes more than one police officer. It takes 2. That takes from. The officers doing proactive work. I'm sure you've heard of community-oriented policing. That was a philosophy that many law enforcement agencies across the nation took. To reduce crime They were able to go into the neighborhoods, learn the neighborhood. Learn the people that live in the community. You have a full uh neighborhood of, of, uh, short term rental will the officer know who comes in and out? No. They won't. The officers usually have a good understanding of what's going on in the neighborhood because they know the people, they know where the cars are at, they know which car belongs there. But if it's an in and out thing, policing out the window. So if a developer were to come in and build 100 homes in the subdivision, you would be opposed to that because that's a new neighborhood that you don't understand and your officers would have to go and answer calls to those 100 homes, but similar logic it's zoned correctly for Short term rental, absolutely. OK, and one other question too. I'm, I'm curious. My brother is a police officer, and he's worked vice. You get more calls to hotels or Airbnbs, because he tells me it's hotels. I don't know what your brother works at. I'm familiar with North Rock, Benton. And Jacksonville Police Department. Uh, we did not get that many calls to hotels. I was undercover for many, many years. And usually the reason we went to hotels was to buy drugs. Uh, but Airbnb is the same. Uh, you have a lot of in and out traffic and the reason you have a lot of venom in out traffic on many occasions is because of the uh bad things that are going on and they're hiding from the police. Thank you. I turned my mic off. See, see no more questions here dismissed. Diane You'll introduce yourself for the record. You may begin. I'm Diane Whitby from the City of North Little Rock. I am the city clerk and treasurer, elected official. I've been in that position for 25 years. I'm also a resident of North Little Rock. I signed up hoping that I could just say ditto because I get nervous speaking in front of you guys, um, but I do, there were a couple of things I just wanted to point out, um, the city of North Little Rock does have an ordinance in place where um sorry, short term rental owners do have to apply to the planning commission and go before the city council. This gives the public the opportunity to come to those meetings, whether it's the planning commission meeting or the council meeting and express whether or not they think this is going to be a good fit for their neighborhood. We do have a restriction on the distance between STRs we do not have a restriction on the number in our cities, um, it is uh a business that's operating out of a residential home, so we do acknowledge it's a residence, but we also require business. licenses of all home-based businesses. So if you're a plumber working from your house, you got to get a business license and follow those guidelines. I'm gonna uh jump to the other part from a personal note. I purchased my home in North Little Rock in 1998, paid it off last year. I was very excited about that, um, I do want to know who's in my neighborhood. I have multiple rental properties around me and the good thing about those, they're long term. I know who's living in those. If there was. a short term rental, I personally would take the time to find out who owned it, so if there was a problem in the middle of the night, I could call that person, but oftentimes it's hard to find out who it is. I know you guys are ready to go eat. We're all ready to go eat. That's all I have to say and thank you so much for your time and for your service to the cities and towns and communities across the state of Arkansas. Thank you for your testimony. We have one more individual signed up, um, Nancy McDonald, and then we've got a couple of people from municipal League and. Live a mayor, so we'll take those that next. If you'll introduce yourself for the record, but again. Nancy McDonnell, uh, I'm a lifelong resident of Little Rock, Arkansas, born and raised in Arkansas. I think I'll make this quick because I think most people have already said, um, what was on my mind to begin with, but I think one thing that we all agree with is that one size does not fit all. And I think this bill, and I'm against this bill because it seems to try to uh eliminate variations by community. One of the things that makes Arkansas strong is we're strong state of urban, uh, we're a strong state of cities and municipalities and I think we all agree that we want to be able to live and and have our lives, uh, governed by those uh communities that we choose to live in. No one's trying to do away with short term rentals. I, I don't think we're here to discuss that, but as a lifelong resident and a homeowner within Little Rock, I have seen the detrimental effects of short term rentals already, uh, Little Rock does have, uh, STR ones which are bed and breakfast and they're more governed than STR2s, uh, we, same as, uh, Fayetteville and some of the other cities we see, uh, going before. For um our city planning boards and things like that and, and. One of the things that I think gets lost in this conversation. I think a woman said it earlier, so I won't belabor it, but is that the rights of the property owners. Uh, I bought a home, I remodeled it. I paid off that home, uh, we, I live in a community where my next door neighbor is very close to me. My mother used to have a saying, and, you know, they're so close to me, I could cuss a cat and get hair in my mouth. It's that close. And so we know who our neighbors are and, and so I asked. that you guys vote against this bill, uh, because I, it, it is not a one size fits all, and I think we can do a lot better with regulations by setting up proximity, uh, my, my particular lot, and you know, while I'm just one person, my particular lot is 50 ft across. My neighbor is 8 ft from me. I can hear them if they fight, you know, so having a short term rental and, and, uh, the constant. return would be a significant, uh, uh, uh, issue for the people that live in my community, and I don't think that we can say having a cabin up on, on, um, Buffalo River and renting it out as an Airbnb is the same as living in a residential neighborhood where there's constant turn. I really appreciate your time. I hope you will vote against this, and thank you very much. Thank you for your testimony, um, I'm gonna ask the John Wilkinson with the municipal League and Mayor Sprouse to to come up together and keep your testimony separate if you like, however, but I think everything, uh, has probably been said multiple times, so if y'all got something new to add, please do and. I'd like to say you saved the best for last, but don't vote on that so so it's a little humor because it's been a long day, so I, I appreciate this very much and I appreciate Representative McKenzie. Um, he's clearly thought about this issue. It's been a complex issue, and we dealt with it two years ago and the thoughts have certainly matured and gotten, you know, deeper and more understanding about it, um, and that understanding has grown, and it is incredibly complex, and there are 500 cities that are dealing with this or some of them that aren't, that may soon, and they all have different sort of ways and certain issues that they're dealing with, and then sort of how they're going to handle these, those issues. What I've learned about this issue from my perspective is it's what this issue is not about, it's not about owner occupied short term rentals. And I ventured to say it's not really about family homes that are being used, uh, as a short term rental. This issue has been, from what I'm hearing from our folks more about businesses operating short-term rental businesses. Now I heard Mr. Henderson, who I knew years ago when he was with BOR, um, talk about that it's a business way through. And I'm not, I'm not arguing that point either way. I will say this though to piggyback off the 76%. If 76% of these businesses, the, sorry, these STRs are not businesses. That leaves 24% that our businesses, and we were left, if this passes without any rec any way to deal with that issue. So assume that 24% are, are multiple owners, we are left with nothing to do about that. I, I, I may oversell nothing, by the way, so I'm getting ahead of myself. But largely this almost entirely restricts our ability to do anything that even limits STRs and back to Representative Brown made a point early on about what if neighbors come to the city talking about their neighborhood being overrun with short-term rentals. We hear that as city councils, as town councils, as mayors, as planning commission members, we hear that and if this passes, we're left with almost zero ability to deal with those types of concerns about density, location, the number, and so what we would is, bear in mind the role that we play as the government closest to the people, even if 76% of these are not businesses, that leaves 24 24% that are. And this, this guts our ability to deal with that issue, and these are issues like the, like the ladies from Northford Rock brought up. These are issues that they're coming to us with that we would like to be able to address. Do we want to ban short-term rentals? I don't believe so. Do we want to severely restrict them and hurt our economy. No. Do we want to have some reasonable balance of ul ations and the ability to regulate based on the needs of Carter, based on the needs of North Rock, based on the needs of Sherwood, based on the needs of, of Van Buren. Yes, I, I really believe that we need to find a balance, and I will give representative credit Representative McKenzie credit on this. This is something I do believe that cities do need guidelines and help in understanding how to navigate this. House Bill 1445 is just not the answer. I think you turned your mic off. Oh, I turned it off. Uh, appreciate the time and I'll be, I'll try and be brief, but this, um, I'm Mayor Doug Sprouts from City of Springdale, and, uh, and we don't regulate short-term rentals in Springdale right now. I don't know that we ever will. But I urge you, and, and I'm down here more on the issue of local control. Then, because we're not dealing with, we have short term rentals, but we're not, we're not having any issues right now. But My crystal ball is no better than yours, and I don't know what growth will bring and what, what we may be, might need a tool in our tool chest at some point. The Bigger issue for me is that. Um, you know, I, I thought the two ladies earlier did this great when they talked about taking away the voice of, of our residents, the people that I'm elected to serve, we have, uh, you know, some of our most contentious city council meetings, and if you're, if, if you've been to any city council meetings and, and, uh, in cities across Arkansas rezonings are the most contentious and hardest, most difficult decisions before a city council, at least that's been my experience. And it's because People who also have property rights, your residents that have probably have their biggest investment in their neighborhood where they live. They are very concerned about what could affect the character of their neighborhood. And uh and so. We We have these, uh, we have citizens that come to us with concerns, again, it hasn't reached the level in Springdale that we've, we've felt the need to take any action. But we have citizens that have these concerns and we need to be able to address it and when, when we have, uh, these preemptive bills and I'll, I'll just speak more generally for a moment. That treat every city in Arkansas the same we homogenized the cities in Arkansas and take away the ability of cities to have the character that the residents who live there want to create. So my, my concern, my bigger concern in being down here, and I, I, I, by the way, I picked a beautiful morning to drive down here, but, uh, but I'm, I'm glad I came and because I'll always take an opportunity to speak about the importance of retaining local control. When we many times when we talk about a city. We think of a mayor or a or a. City council or some elected leadership. The city is the people that live there it's the residents that, that look to us as their local leaders to be able to help them address issues and any time we do sweeping legislation that erodes local control, you're taking their voice away because you're taking away a tool that that city may be able to use to address the, the people they serve. The only reason we exist as a city is to serve our residents. That's it. We, we take their hard earned tax money and we return it to them and services and roads and protection and and and and all those things that they want and need. And so I'm very well aware after being mayor for 16 years, that I, I, I know very well who I work for. And if I, if I get out over my skis as a local leader or as a or my counsel. And we passed something that's just a boneheaded thing or something that has unintended consequences that we never could have foreseen. And I passed that. I'll hear about it. If not that night within for sure within a couple of days. And I'll hear about it a lot. I'll hear about it everywhere I go. And as city leaders we have a remedy for that. We can take care of that in a matter of days or certainly in a week or two. What this body does, what the state does in this broad sweeping legis preemptive legislation. If you get out over your skis and those unintended consequences come. Then we may be dealing with that for. What, a couple of years? At a minimum. We're as cities we can be more reactive to the needs of our citizens, and I hope you'll, I, I just hope that whether this legislation or any other what we would consider preemptive legislation that puts all this all this, uh, the cities in Arkansas into one box. I hope you're, you'll continue to have a default. That says well. Let's protect local control. Because I guarantee you the residents of Springdale can deal with me a lot quicker than they can deal with you. If they, if, if we make a mistake, so please consider that and please consider that your default. I don't know if that applies. I, I know something needs to be done. I don't, I, I don't necessarily disagree with the need for the legislation, but there are real issues when you take our tools away that we may or may not ever use, may or may not ever need, but if we mess up, we're more accountable than any other level of government, I think in America. Good. Thank you for the testimony. We have a couple of questions committee. We will be out of here by one o'clock if we hadn't finished up, we will come back after session, so, uh, just keep that in mind and discussion on the motions and questions and everything else so with that Representative Ry, you're recognized. Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Guys are, I really appreciate you all being here today to help explain a lot of this, but John Harris, where I'm having a problem, and I know there's a few things going on here, but The situation you said 76 to 24. Now If all of those houses or that are owned by people, if they're commercial. Owned by businesses. How come there is no sales tax that's being paid on that. I, I don't know the answer exactly, but I, I know that's been a struggle with us and I will say the Airbnb's been, uh, working with us to try to tackle that issue. Um, it is an issue for a lot of cities, and I know Airbnb's worked with cities, so I will give them credit, full credit. They have been, they have been working with cities to try to address that problem and um I think there's some, there may be some confusion caused by the bill, but I, I don't think it's anything that can't be worked out, but, uh, I don't know the answer to the question exactly, but the idea that that they, that Airbnb operators would pay sales tax and. AMP tax. As far as I understand it's not, it should be not affected by this, at least the intent of this is not to affect that sales tax issue. Right, Representative Shepherd, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I heard a few common themes in the beginning, you gentlemen mentioned that the cities do need help and they need guidelines. And then I also heard you mention that there is a need for legislation but not maybe this legislation. Were you able to work with Representative McKenzie before this legislation was put forth. Yes, yes, ma'am. He, he, he, he, um, he tried to work with us, um, uh, he, he had very, you know, he had ideas in his mind that he wanted to, that was, I don't wanna put words in his mouth that he thought these were the things that he wanted to maintain in the bill. Uh, we took it back there. Executive committee and unfortunately we could not, you know, we weren't in line with him on that, but he did, he did attempt to work with us and and we do appreciate it very much. He did try and we tried as well need for improvement. On this bill? Yes, I believe so. OK, thank you for that. I think that's the end of the question, so you dismissed. Representative McKenzie, you're recognized the clothes for your bill. The chairman was pretty explicit. I've got less than 5 minutes to get this done, otherwise, we're gonna miss lunch. Um, and if this words of Roy Raglan, uh, everything's been said, but not by everybody. Um, I will be brief. There are certain claims that were made in the testimony. I feel like I have an obligation so that no one's, um, misconstrued or has uh uh misguided understanding on some of the, the parts of the bill. Um, to talk to the fact about uh the size and scale of, of short-term rentals within, um, any town. Uh, there is No town in the state of Arkansas based on readily available data that I believe some of the other testimony uh mentioned in terms of air DNA. No town has more than 2% of their total uh single family, multi-family dwellings that are short term rental or listed as short term rentals. So the fact that, you know, intimation that, you know, 2030, 50% of homes are getting gobbled up is, is again, a bit of a bogeyman argument. Um, Prohibiting against out of state owners, um. That has, that was the point of the consideration of the bill as we initially ran this two years ago, um. To, to make this legislation as relevant to in-state or owner occupied versus out of state. It violates a, a pretty significant uh the dormant commerce clause of the Constitution. Doing so would put us in even further jeopardy as a state. Um, a lot of testimony today, uh, either battled with, made, made the claim of or pulled back on this, this determination of residents, and that's the heart of this bill. Um, there's a, there's a, there's an Arkansas Supreme Court decision that I've referenced in this testimony in in previous journal assemblies and I'll do it today. The Verily angel Trust versus Jim O'Brien at all. Um, the Supreme Court opined, um, and reversed a Garland County Circuit Court injunction that at the heart of the court's decision, activities that um alter, uh, the fundamental residential character, uh, and how, uh, do not change the very existence of that property. This This bill addresses use. Um, the tester, uh, or anecdote that was given in that court decision was The amount of time a head is on a pillow, does not change the essential nature of it. That is what we've tried to do surgically with this bill is to change that definition of residential property so that That essential use. Which backs into our a a fundamental right of ours as citizens in Arkansans is affirmed. Um, there's a few claims about specific cities, uh, North Little Rock does have a a effective prohibitive cap of 100, um, and I want to get to this. I know we're not supposed to use props and I'm not using it as a prop. This is a 4-inch, 3 ring binder that the city of Little Rock requires any citizen, whether that be STR1 or STR2. Fill out in duplicate to submit for the use of their own property. And I just posited to this committee, how many pieces of paper do I have to fill out to use any other of my fundamental mental rights to own a firearm, to commence in commerce. Not this many. Not this many on its worst day, and I'm sorry, but you know, I don't represent the city of Little Rock. I represent the great people of eastern Benton County. I hope none of your constituents have to go through the ringer and jump through hoops in order to use their property as they see fit, even if they sleep in that home 364 days a year. Um A lot of it was made about the Thomas Jefferson quote, I love it, um, the government that governs closest to the people, governs the best. I truly do believe that. I believe in local control. I believe in local control as long as it does not run afoul of our fundamental rights. I'm not going to recite the, the article in section of the Constitution again. But our rights are sacrosanct. They are given to us by God and affirmed in our, in our founding documents. And I'm all for the reproach of citizens through their elected local leaders as well as the ballot to ensure Those rights are met and that are initiated acts and referenda match that. Our law emanates from this constitution, the one that I hold, and I hope you all hold so dearly. Uh, so with that, I appreciate a good vote as a privilege of the committee, I do make a motion of do pass. Thank you. We have Representative McKenzie is closed on the on the. Bill, we have a motion to pass any discussion on the motion. Seeing none, all in favor, say hi. All opposed. Roll the eyes have it. Call the roll. I I I do. Representative Hall. Yes Representative Hall, yes. Representative A Brown. Representative A. Brown, yes. Representative Andrews. Representative Andrews, yes. Representative McKenzie. Represent McKenzie, yes. Representative Richardson, Representative Richardson, yes. Representative Shepard. No. Representative Shepherd, no. Representative painter. Representative painter, no. Excuse me, Representative. MacAlinden? Representative McAloon, yes. Representative Burks. Representative Burkes, yes, Representative Milligan. No. No, Representative Milligan, no. Representative Hudson. Representative Hudson, no. So sorry, Representative McCall. No, no. Representative Pilkington. Yes. Representative Pilkington, yes. Representative Rye. Representative Rye, no, Representative Kavanaugh. Representative Kavanaugh, no. Representative Kay Brown. Yes. Representative Ka Brown, yes. Representative Holcomb. Representative Hokum, no. Representative Womack. Representative Womack, yes. Congratulations Reverend McKenzie, your bill is passed. And with that we adjourned.