City, County & Local Affairs Committee - Senate
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Bills discussed (8)
| Bill | Title | Sponsor | Status |
|---|---|---|---|
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SB252
Act 590
· 3 mentions in agenda, chapter, transcript
Matched: “…ua Bryant SPECIAL ORDER OF BUSINESS Number Sponsor Subtitle SB252 J. Dismang TO INFORM THE PUBLIC OF HEALTH RISKS CAUSED BY V…”
|
TO INFORM THE PUBLIC OF HEALTH RISKS CAUSED BY VAPOR PRODUCTS AND E-LIQUID PRODUCTS; AND … | J. Dismang | Notification that SB252 is now Act 590 |
|
SB324
Act 519
· 2 mentions in chapter, agenda
Matched: “SB324 M. Johnson TO AMEND THE LAW CONCERNING THE MEMBERSHIP OF A…”
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TO AMEND THE LAW CONCERNING THE MEMBERSHIP OF A COUNTY PLANNING BOARD. | M. Johnson | Notification that SB324 is now Act 519 |
|
SB10
· 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…THAT CONVEYS REAL PROPERTY OR AN INTEREST IN REAL PROPERTY. SB10 B. King TO AMEND THE ARKANSAS DATA CENTERS ACT OF 2023; AND…”
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TO AMEND THE ARKANSAS DATA CENTERS ACT OF 2023; AND TO REGULATE THE IMPACT ON … | B. King | Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
SB271
Act 460
· 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…ECLARE AN EMERGENCY. REGULAR AGENDA Number Sponsor Subtitle SB271 Crowell TO AMEND THE LAW CONCERNING A COUNTY CLERK'S CERTIF…”
|
TO AMEND THE LAW CONCERNING A COUNTY CLERK'S CERTIFICATION OF SCHOOL BOARD CANDIDATES TO THE … | Crowell | Notification that SB271 is now Act 460 |
|
SB322
Act 591
· 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…D CANDIDATES TO THE COUNTY BOARD OF ELECTION COMMISSIONERS. SB322 J. Bryant TO AMEND THE LAW CONCERNING CONSTRUCTION AND DEVE…”
|
TO AMEND THE LAW CONCERNING CONSTRUCTION AND DEVELOPMENT; AND TO ALLOW THIRD PARTIES TO PERFORM … | J. Bryant | Notification that SB322 is now Act 591 |
|
SB345
Act 421
· 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…E LAW CONCERNING THE MEMBERSHIP OF A COUNTY PLANNING BOARD. SB345 Irvin TO PROMOTE TOURISM AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT BY IMPROV…”
|
TO PROMOTE TOURISM AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT BY IMPROVING EFFICIENCY OF THE PRIVATE CLUB PERMITTING PROCESS … | Irvin | Notification that SB345 is now Act 421 |
|
SB60
· 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…CTRIC GRID BY BLOCKCHAIN NETWORKS AND DIGITAL ASSET MINING. SB60 Hill TO PROHIBIT A DIGITAL ASSET MINING BUSINESS FROM BEING…”
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TO PROHIBIT A DIGITAL ASSET MINING BUSINESS FROM BEING LOCATED WITHIN A THIRTY-MILE RADIUS OF … | Hill | Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
SB69
· 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…OME TAX REQUIREMENT. DEFERRED BILLS Number Sponsor Subtitle SB69 A. Clark CONCERNING THE RECORDATION AND FILING OF A DEED OR…”
|
CONCERNING THE RECORDATION AND FILING OF A DEED OR OTHER INSTRUMENT THAT CONVEYS REAL PROPERTY … | A. Clark | Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
Machine transcript
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- October 2, 2026
Senator Gary Stubblefield
Unverified
0:06
Uh, the first item on the agenda today is Senator dismay. Senate bill, uh, 62. 52 You're, if you will state your name,
go ahead and state your name and who you're with. You recognize. Jonathan Dima state Senate.
Senator Jonathan Dismang
Unverified
0:39
Steve Good, I represent the Arkansas Retailers Group, and I have him here. I'll present the bill and then we go into the questions, there's something technical I don't know the answer
to, he'll be able to help just from experience that he has with tobacco control. OK, you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, sir.
committee members, so what we're doing with this bill is creating a registry for vapor products in Arkansas, that is going to mirror the FDA directory, but also include those products that have applied to be on the FDA. EA Directory and those that are
actually on appeal. So it's not just limited to what's on the FDA directory today. Uh, this will be utilized, this registry then would be utilized by tobacco control to enforce uh really making sure that we know what products are being sold on the shelves and where they're coming from and the fact that there has been some minimal oversight of those products. Uh, right now there is, there is no limitation like this in place. We are selling Chinese vapes, for instance, on the shelves. No one knows what's in those products and even some
Anecdotal, I guess, evidenced by those who have been looking into it, these are not healthy products. They're popular amongst our children, um, and again, something that I think does need to be regulated for the safety of the people of Arkansas in general, again, that's an overview of the bill as allowing a registered a r a registry to be created, not a ban, that then uh mirrors what's happening with a federal FDA directory, um, and then allowing our our tobacco control to have Something to work against to
enforce. Uh, uh, I have one question, since the dismay,
Senator Gary Stubblefield
Unverified
2:16
if, if the, uh, the one part of this that deals with Chinese ingredients being added. If that was eliminated, how
would that change? Would that change your mind on any of the This legislation, I mean, in general, I think, I mean, I don't think we can
Senator Jonathan Dismang
Unverified
2:32
work towards a ban because I don't think a band will work. This creates a directory that then can be utilized by tobacco control, and I think it's the most effective way to manage the
issue with the registry. Yes, sir. Any, any other committee members
Speaker 21
2:47
have questions? He saying none. That's a little shocking, saying
Senator Gary Stubblefield
Unverified
2:55
none, uh, anyone from the audience wished to speak for or against the bill. We have a list First one on the list is a uh Scout stubs.
Speaking against the bill, AVAA. You come to the table and state your name. I recognize
who you're with. You, you will be recognized to speak. Horrible. Push the button. There we go. Honorable senators,
Scout Stubbs
Unverified
3:41
uh, thank you for allowing me to speak on behalf of Arkansas small business vape shops which are
vital to adults in Arkansas who choose vaping as a safer alternative to smoking. My name is Scout Stubbs, and my husband and I own 4 vape shops in Arkansas, and we have been manufacturing our own Arkansas-made e-liquid for 10 years. I've been attending committee meetings like this for over 8 years advocating for our business. I used to bring my newborn up here sometimes with me and she's 8 now. I'm here today to oppose SB 252, a vape registry bill, which would devastate our industry, put hundreds of jobs at risk and
severely limit the vaping options available to adults in Arkansas. The federal vaping statutes from the Obama administration have been a disaster. They mandated that all vapor products, even the juice I manufacture, receive FDA approval. 8 years ago, President Trump refused to implement them. They were so bad that even President Biden refused to implement them, and now President Trump has vowed that he will save American vaping and revamp the law. The FDA approval process is so rigorous and expensive that so
far out of the 26 million applications, only Altria. And RJ Reynolds have managed to get 34 products approved, which is only 6 devices and they're refills. Um, I registered all 2000 of my products in 2016, uh, submitted my ingredients in 2018 and all 2000 of my PMTA applications in 2020. It was the single hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life. Each of my applications were denied, just like every other
small business owner in the vape industry. According to the FDA, each size and strength is a separate product, so that means I have to have 20 separate applications for the same e-liquid. Uh, basing this bill on a broken PMTA process, 99% of the market will be banned. For the first time in 15 years,
Speaker 29
5:37
there will be a bigger variety of cigarettes available than vapor products. Yes, cigarettes are FDA approved, even though they
Scout Stubbs
Unverified
5:43
kill half a million Americans each year. I don't believe there's an emergency with youth vaping
because youth vaping numbers are down. There's no emergency in complying with federal law, as it has not changed in 10 years, the real emergency is Chinese disposables, and this bill doesn't mention them at all. I've had the Chinese disposables tested and they contain lead, ethanol, arsenic, and are mislabeled with their nicotine contents. I'm in favor of a more limited approach, such as the ban on Chinese disposable that has been filed by Representative Duffield and Senator Irvin. last week.
100% of what is being confiscated in local schools in Arkansas, our Chinese disposables, not my products. The only rush to enforce the FDA's policy has been big tobacco companies. In the states that have passed this, it's been RJ Reynolds that is sending cease and desist letters to vape shops, not the state's tobacco control. Our problem with this bill is as follows. First, this bill creates yet another tobacco fund. Arkansas received $54 million last year alone from the master settlement agreement.
This new fund will be paid on the backs of Arkansas small businesses who will struggle to comply with such a complicated law. Not Chinese manufacturers or out of state vendors that sell through the mail. Second, this bill creates new definitions for my products that are already defined in Arkansas law, but makes no mention of the single-use disposable vaporizers coming from China that have gained so much popularity over the past two years. It is their lack of definition that has allowed them to skirt both
Arkansas and federal law. Third, this bill creates new laws for advertising. I'm already prohibited from advertising my products, but I I am able to advertise my store itself. As far as marketing, the bill restricts me from using flavor names like cake and Candy. My labels are printed in black and white and do not have any colors or graphics. However, strawberry cheesecake is one of my most popular flavors, and I don't know another way to tell my customers that something tastes like cheesecake without using the word cake. The last time I checked, cotton candy flavored vodka is still on
the shelf with a colorful label and a picture of cotton candy. The biggest section of the bill has to do with a directory or registry. Basically this mandates that every product sold in a vape shop must be listed in a directory maintained by the ATC. Out of state companies must pay to be listed in this directory for my store to sell it. There is virtually no other restriction like this in any other retail industry. The fees to be listed are astronomical, mandating a $1000 fee for initial listing and $500 to be paid annually. More expensive
than the other 12 states that have passed this. Which are $500 and $500 or $500 and $250. Some are only $75. Next, my products, my products have had child resistant packaging for 10 years, as well as have all other American vape manufacturers, the only ones that don't have child resistant packaging are the Chinese disposables, and I can't see where this bill addresses that as it makes no mention of single-use vaporizers. Next, this bill contains a provision
that makes even possession of one of these vapes illegal, meaning if I bought a vape in Texas, I could be in trouble just for bringing it across the border, not a marijuana vape, not a vape, but a vape that contains nicotine. This would also make it illegal to manufacture your own e-liquid for personal use, as my husband has done for 15 years as if it was an illegal drug. As I stated earlier, I do not see a need for an emergency clause. If anything, small businesses need to be made aware of this law and given time to deplete their existing inventory.
There are currently 12 states that have passed a registry bill, all with dire consequences. Some have been overturned in court, some have repealed it, and in states where it has remained unchanged, it has killed the industry for both shop owners and vapors alike, removing 97% of products from the market, leaving only the FDA approved pot systems sold in gas stations by Altria and others. I think worst of all, smoking rates have increased. Thank you members of the committee. I would ask that you vote no on this bill. If we're trying to help the youth and
citizens at large, it's by starting with the ban on Chinese disposable vapes, like you'll hear from Senator Ervin, uh, instead of this bill, which is devastating for our small businesses. Thank you. You've heard the question. Any questions from the
Senator Gary Stubblefield
Unverified
10:14
committee. Aren't saying no. Thank, thank you for
your testimony. Uh, Steve Good. Good if you want to
State your name and who you're affiliated with, you are recognized. Yes, sir. Thank
Steve Good
Unverified
10:33
you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. My name is Steve Good and I represent the Arkansas retailers, um, I think that, uh, just to give a little context for maybe members that haven't been around. More importantly, in 2015, I was the director of tobacco control. At that point in time, vapor products were not regulated or enforced at all in the state. And so we were tasked in 2015 with with passing some vapor legislation that basically gave
tobacco control enforcement powers. I think that uh that that was a good start because at that point in time, you know, a kid could walk in and buy vapor off the shelf and have no consequences at all. Store owners could sell it freely. And so that gave us a very good start as to start regulating this bill. The reality is, um, Today it's time to add to that enforcement. And the way that we can add to that enforcement is through a registry. Um, the reality is, is
that bands don't work many times, you know, prohibition tried and failed, uh, a century ago. And so bands don't work, but directories do. Uh, when, when you're allowed to, uh, tobacco control needs this bill, quite frankly, so that their agents when they're in stores, they have a list of products that they can call balls and strikes on, uh, you know, otherwise they'll go into a store that may have 100s or even More vapor products on the shelf, and they will have no idea if that product is legal or not.
Uh, the FDA and the federal law is, is that items shall have filed for a PMTA or a pre-market tobacco authorization. And the reality is that pre-market authorization, tobacco authorization doesn't have to be approved at this point in time. It just simply says that the retailer has to have made an application or the manufacturer has to have made the application. If they have done that, then they can go on our registry here
in Arkansas. Um, our, our bill that, uh, this bill that, that Senator Dismay has run, that retailer support, uh, would catch, uh, those Chinese vapes that Ms. Stubbs talked about because they would not be on that registry, and we agree that those need to be done away with, uh, this bill again helps enforcement. Uh, I've got a few other notes. here. Hang on just a second. You know, again, um, There are states that have also
passed these directory bills that, that I talked to their uh directors of their associations, I can tell you that Alabama has passed a bill, uh, in Louisiana has passed a bill, uh, and, and both of those bills have or both of those states I think have around 500 items that are on those registries that are allowed to be sold in stores. I talked to the director of Alabama just on Monday, uh, and, and there is, there have been no stores that have closed down in Alabama because of the directory bill that passed there to knowledge, uh, and, and I think
uh I've not talked to Louisiana in, in about 6 months, but I talked to her last summer at a trade show, and at that point in time, there had been none that had closed down there because of their bill, and both of their bands or both of their registries, uh, bills passed in 2023. So our, our prior session. stuff. This framework would just finally provide a list of
compliant products. This framework would guarantee retailers if they knew what items they could sell and what items they couldn't sell. And this framework would give tobacco control the ability to go in and help regulate stores and keep these dangerous items out of the hands of not only children but adults alike. So, any questions? Steve, what's the physical impact of this? Um, I,
Steve Good
Unverified
14:27
Stubbs, and I think it's a, uh, it, it's about 200,000 plus to the state in
year one and about half that in year two. It, it, it, uh, the directory would add about 2,080,000, I think, to the state and you're 1.5 that going forward if I'm, if I'm not. If I remember correct, Senator Stubbs. OK, so we've
Senator Gary Stubblefield
Unverified
14:48
got a $200,000. Any, uh, you've heard testimony, any questions from the committee? That centralized. Thank you Senator Stubblefield. He's got
Senator Terry Rice
Unverified
14:59
a field on the end of that stub, uh.
Could you clarify as the previous one testified. On the $1000. I'm calling it, and then the $500 annual fee. Is that the same for a small business in the same for a big manufacturer. So
Speaker 44
15:23
the way I understand the way that the bill is written, Senator Rice says those are for brand families and so if you
Steve Good
Unverified
15:31
had um Um, I'll just use ABC brand, uh,
an ABC brand had 10 different varieties underneath ABC brand. There would only be 11 family that would be, have that registration fee to it. So you could ultimately have many different items as long as they were under that one brand family. So I think it would apply is $1500 is, is
Senator Terry Rice
Unverified
15:54
a lot to a small business, $1500 is not much to. a big corporation, if the
fees are the same for both of them. Yes, sir. I think the way that it's written is it's by brand
Speaker 61
16:07
family. It doesn't distinguish between big or small business. Yes, sir. OK, and then
Senator Terry Rice
Unverified
16:16
On the Chinese vapes, which are Isabel. I think we can all agree these things are bad because they've been tested. I'd read that before in the previous testimony said they contained uh lead and arsenic and other things, you don't know what you're getting. What percentage Of the industry, do you have any
numbers that those are selling in Arkansas now. No, sir, I, I apologize. I don't. I mean, it
Speaker 63
16:46
would be pretty substantial though, wouldn't it? Um, again, you know, I I don't go into a lot of stores
Steve Good
Unverified
16:54
other than my own. I mean, I, you know, I have my own stores and, and, and so, and I'm down here a lot, so I haven't been in a lot of C stores, grocery stores, vape stores lately. But I would say that, yes, sir, there is Chinese vape in Arkansas today. I don't know
Senator Terry Rice
Unverified
17:10
percentage wise, I hope we can all agree that if if it contains uh that kind of stuff, we need to get rid
Speaker 63
17:18
of it now. Yes sir, and this bill would do that because again the Chinese typically don't that's
Senator Terry Rice
Unverified
17:24
what they're finding in schools. most of the Chinese vapes, throw away vapes and, and just like they told me when I was sneaking around smoking in school, you shouldn't be doing that, but I did anyway, and, and tobacco products can be harmful. Uh, we, we know that liquor can be harmful, but we sure passed a
lot of bills for it and it is a previous one lady said, uh, You know, it, it's right one time, it's wrong one time, the next time when we're passing a bill saying you can do it but you can't do it and that. That, that troubles me, it troubles the public. Uh Do you see this bill as favoring Big business over small business. Uh, no, sir. I, you know, I, I see this bill
Speaker 66
18:09
that, that is basically a tool that will help
Steve Good
Unverified
18:12
tobacco control more than anything, you know, I, I will tell you our retailers, you know, and there's a list of retailers that that are in support of this, and they're both big and small. If you look, um, At those retailers, you know, harps, uh, is a, is a large retail chain in Arkansas. We haveARPS has over 170 stores, I think in, in the region in Arkansas, I would say it's 80 plus. So I would consider that a a big business, uh, you know, uh, BB oil based out of Cersei, you know, they
probably have 25 to 30 convenience stores. I would consider that, you know, a medium-sized business, but then, uh, you know, double B's, fast lane markets, um, Tom Corner Store. I, I'm not even sure where that is. Bob's Food City down at Mount Ida, that's a single store operator. So that's a small business. Goods cash saver in Clinton and Damascus. I can tell you those that's a very small business so as you know, I, I'm a small business person. I advocate for small business people because they're
Senator Terry Rice
Unverified
19:07
not, we're not going to be left before long. No, that's right. And so I would say if you
Steve Good
Unverified
19:13
look at the list of retailers that, that are in favor of this, I would say it's, it's, it's in Arkansas, it's both big and small, you know, retailers that are in favor of this bill. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Senator Gary Stubblefield
Unverified
19:26
Yes, sir. All right. uh, Senator Bryan, you recognized for question. Thank
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
19:30
you, Mr. Chair. Just to follow on with Senator Rice on the big, big versus small. If you have a small mom and pop that produces some of their own products, um, buys from organizations that are outside of the big 3.
That don't want to Pushed through a registry process and pay exorbitant fees to the state for something that they've sold here for 15 years and you're starting to limit these Small businesses down to just being able to sell 6 dozen products because they're the only ones, the big, the big companies are the only ones that have the lawyers and the legal teams and the federal lobbyists to even get the FDA or somebody to pay him any mind. How does that not affect small business that can no longer has
those products available that would traditionally have already been sold, sold for the
last. You know, 15 years since 20 to 15 at least 10 back to 2015, I guess is when we put the first
Steve Good
Unverified
20:28
uh vapor bill in that we passed in 2015. So, so I, I would say the reality is, is, you know, I called uh my peer in Alabama, uh, and, and I call them up here in Louisiana. I got one and I didn't get the other, and the reality is, Senator Bryant, they both those states passed
directory bills in 2023, and I, and, and I can just tell you that in Alabama, there have been no small businesses that have have closed yet. Uh, now, does that mean tomorrow that some might might or might not, very well could happen, uh, but, but she told me that there had been no none of those vapor stores that have been affected yet. I think they're just mixed changes. So just to follow on,
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
21:09
so I, I, I looked up existing codes in Title 26, um. We have Probably the ones passed in
2015, numerous codes that protect kids packaging. Um, I like I said, several divisions. What problem? has occurred outside of the I I totally agree that the Chinese is a is a problem that the disposable vapes, I think looking at a bill to to make them illegal possession for for students that way the courts have some, you know, a better
way to handle those issues, but banning the Chinese if they never got introduced and we've been doing the same process and not have, to my knowledge, any issues with how
it is in the current code. What what problem are we? trying to fix. I think the biggest thing that that I
Speaker 66
22:05
see is that that federal law is federal law. I mean, the federal law says that some
Steve Good
Unverified
22:10
of these items should not be sold. And so you've got retailers in Arkansas that are trying to follow federal law, and they're being, we're following one standard, you know, we're, we're, we're only selling the
items that are on that directory or at least have, have had that approval process started and then you have other retail locations that are not, and so, you know, quite frankly, it's an unfair advantage. I mean, one group of stores is following. the law, the federal law, and then you have other stores that that are selling items that are not, have not gone through that PMTA process. and been approved. So I think
Speaker 47
22:41
that's the reason why you from from our industry, that's, that's the, that's the ask here of those products that are not on the federal system because
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
22:52
They just can't jump through those legal hurdles
and those, those other hurdler don't want to pay to do that, and they've been sold in the stores. I've not heard of any, any issue with those products. I mean, obviously half our states sell them, half our states are doing new regulations to allow the bigger industries that want to corner these markets, um, to have that authority in those states. So what are the small industries that don't want to join the Federal registry. What problems are they
specifically creating in the state. Again, I don't know that that could answer
Speaker 47
23:28
that, that there would be a specific problem. I would just say that there are retailers that are trying to follow that federal law, and
Steve Good
Unverified
23:35
there are retailers that are not. I mean, it would be, you know, it would be similar to um, you know, anything that USDA regulated or FDA regulated, you know, as, as grocery stores, convenience stores that are following these laws, you know, we think that we're upheld to our, or we should follow the law and so therefore, that's what we're doing.
Senator Jim Petty
Unverified
23:54
Yes, sir. Our son Petty, of course. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I have a question, but I want to follow up on something that uh that you, that was said a little earlier, uh, that I, I don't know that I understand. So I thought someone said earlier that you just had to have applied. Yes, sir. And, and we also heard testimony that the application was taking a long time to be
approved or rejected. How many can you tell how many of these products they have actually applied for, but they just haven't had a response yet or as, as Ms Scout said was was denied because they didn't have an individual, which sounds like it's a, it's a conflict. We've got a
family plan, so to speak, and the state thinks it needs to be An individual plan, I mean, the feds think it needs to be an individual plan. Can you comment on that and are those the ones that you're talking about aren't following the law just or all of
these have been rejected and they're still selling them anyway. Well, I think there's a
Steve Good
Unverified
25:01
kind of a two-part answer to that question, Senator Petty. One, if it's my understanding, if I read through the bill, that, that even items that have been applied for that have been denied, as long as there's an appeal process in place, those items can still go on the directory. I think that's on page 11 of the. Bill, if I'm not mistaken. Um, to answer your question, you know, I would say, yeah, there probably is, you know, an approval process that takes time
and, and, and I don't know the answer to how many of those have not been approved or even their applications seen, um, but I do know that, that there are items that, you know, for example, Louisiana's registry has over 500 items on it. So there are a, there is a class of, of, of, of vapor products that are able to be sold
Speaker 61
25:46
based off of that FDA register. OK, follow up.
Senator Jim Petty
Unverified
25:50
So on, on that, on the statement that you said there are those that are choosing not to fall.
You don't know specifically that they're not following the law because they could have been they could have had an application and it wasn't denied or it's on appeal. Well, absolutely, that is right. There could
Steve Good
Unverified
26:09
be some that have made application. There are just a list of items that we know that have at least had, have had FDA approval, and I think again, that's what you see the retailers that that we represent, that's the items that they're selling. So, yes, sir, that's fair. My
Senator Jim Petty
Unverified
26:25
question was, in general, we, we have a tendency
and have have done so since I've been down here to have a few bands, but you specifically said a couple of times that you, you didn't think bands or, or effective or they did not work, but a registry would. Can you expand on why bans don't work and my registries do work well in today's world, you know,
Steve Good
Unverified
26:47
it, uh, A ban would be very hard. I think the last, when I was at tobacco control, if I remember, and I think there's somebody here they could probably correct me, but I think we had over 2000 retail permits and, and so
again, uh with that many retail permits in the store and, and again, I'm going back to when I was over the agency, probably, let's just say 8 to 10 agents. That means that, you know, it's very hard for those 8 to 10 agents to get around to, to the state just to do a minor enforcement. And then to go in and do audits and to be able to pick items that are legal versus items that are not. It would be virtually next to impossible. So even if you ban those items, retailers could still have them on their shelves and tobacco control, quite frankly, could go in the store and do an inspection on the store and there'd be banned
items in there, but without a directory, they don't know if the items are banned or not. However, with a directory or registry, they're immediately able to go through and, you know, I don't know how they'll enforce it, how they'll implement it once, once it's started, but, you know, in my mind, it would be something as simple as You know, you have a UPC code on Senator Hester's can there. And, and so the items that were, you know, that were approved would have a code, a UPC code, and you can almost take your iPhone and scan it and say, OK, this item is approved, scan, scan, scan,
scan throughout the store, and you would get to, you know, the 10th 1, and all of a sudden you would scan one that's not approved. It would be very easy for tobacco control then to enforce the items that were there or not, versus if you did a ban, I don't think that the average agent could go in there and tell what items
Speaker 47
28:16
were banned or what items. were not, quite frankly. A registry would help that. OK. Any other questions from the committee? Hard to say no, Mr. Good. Thank you. Thank you. Next we have uh Brad.
Senator Gary Stubblefield
Unverified
28:38
Crossover, sir. You are recognized, you'll state your name and who you represent, you
Brett Cossover
Unverified
28:46
recognize to speak against. Good morning, Senators. My name is Brett
Speaker 93
28:51
Cossover. And I wanted to sit before you today and kind of tell my story. Um, I grew up in Arkansas. From a well-to do household had access to good health care,
education, healthy foods. I was an athlete generally lived a pretty healthy lifestyle. Um, except for the fact that I started smoking towards the end of my military service in my early twenties. Today I'm 53 years old and I have a family history of heart disease and in most cases, all of my direct relatives have died from heart-related issues. I have had 2 heart attacks, um, the first happening when I was 40 years old, that was a 20 year smoker at that point. Um
Time and time again when visiting my doctors over the years and especially after my first heart attack, smoking was obviously a hot topic. And um Quitting was at the forefront of improving my prognosis and combining, you know, and combating my heart disease. For several years, I explored and tried every available avenue to stop smoking from counseling to cessation classes, you know, cold turkey prescription medications, patches, gum.
Nothing worked for me. Um, then I explored vaping and I found myself trying to readily available options found in gas stations, grocery, and tobacco stores. Um, uh, which are brands owned by tobacco companies, namely Jews and fuses. Not only were these brands limited to nicotine strengths and options in general. They are expensive and the quality was incredibly inconsistent, you know, anyone who has tried these products in particular will tell you the
same thing. When you purchase a non-working device leaking pot or a pod with an oxidized e-liquid in it. Um, good luck getting an exchange or your money back from a gas station or tobacco store. Bottom line, it wasn't working for me and I continued smoking. Then I stumbled into a vape shop. I found myself surrounded by very knowledgeable and well-trained staff who went to great lengths to get me set up with something that would give me my best shot at stopping smoking.
From the devices to the flavors, to the different types of nicotine strengths, uh, tons and and tons of options. Not to mention their support and the fact that they stood behind their products. Fast forward to today. I, I have not smoked a cigarette and going on 3 years. I have reduced my nicotine intake from 50 mg E juice to 3 mg each juice. And now I find myself using 3 mg
nicotine pouches and 0 mg nicotine vapor. So I am smoke-free and getting close to nicotine-free, soon to be vape-free. Tobacco companies played no part in this. Other than driving me to a much better, more available and affordable options at a vape shop. The key factors in my success thus far have been expert support and options, tons and tons of options. I can't imagine a better outcome for myself. All due to the
expertise and and plethora of options from a local vape shop. You will not find expertise and options at a gas station, grocery, or tobacco store. Or from tobacco companies. My doctors have been nothing but supportive of my approach to using nicotine vapes to stop smoking. Today I'm leaps and bounds healthier and happier since I've stopped smoking. So I sit here today not only reformed a reformed smoker thanks to vaping options, but also as a leader, one of the
biggest vaper retailers in Arkansas. Responsible for over 100 employees. And locations throughout the state. Serving thousands of people every day. And what I've learned based on my personal and now professional experience and through available research, studies and publications are the facts. fact You are twice as likely to quit smoking if you use a nicotine vape delivery system compared to any other nicotine product like patches or gums.
Fact. In 2020, there were 68 reported deaths in the United States associated with vaping. There are roughly 500,000 deaths a year in the United States contributed to smoking at about 19,000 deaths a year contributed to secondhand smoke exposure. 1 in 4 global cancer deaths are caused by tobacco use. Smoking reduces a person's life expectancy by 10 years and has significant economic impact on our nation's health care system, costing taxpayers an estimated
$600 billion a year. The vape devices and brands widely used by teens who vape or in fact two specific brands, Jewel and You, both owned by tobacco companies. In Europe A much healthier population versus the United States, but in the news a lot lately. There have been endless amounts of research on vaping from its inception, and all of that research points to vaping as a
nicotine delivery system is a much safer and healthier option than smoking tobacco. In every state where vaping has been banned or flavor options have been limited, and there has been an increase in smoking in some instances up to 22% increase in smoking has been seen within the first year after the ban. So with all that being said, and contrary to the topics, this bill aims to address. These are
the three things I see that it accomplishes. One, it bolsters the brands and devices prevalent with and attributed to the teen vaping epidemic. which are largely which are largely jewel and view. The tobacco company brands that are readily available in every gas station, grocery store, and tobacco shop. 2, it greatly reduces options. Most all options actually. Options that are proven to play a key role in quitting smoking,
and in turn it puts pressure on vape shops who are the experts people look to for support on their journey to quit smoking. And 3 in most troubling, is it quite literally sentences Arkansans to an early death. So my question for state leadership is, and with all due respect, senators. How is any decision that
Speaker 98
35:47
mobilizes monopolizes tobacco companies in Arkansas a good decision for Arkansas. Thank you. Heart Committee for
Senator Gary Stubblefield
Unverified
35:57
The testimony. Any questions? From committee. I thank you, Mr.
Crossover, for your testimony. Yes, sir. Thank you. All right. Next up we have a
Carry profit from the ed food giants here today? Hope I'm pronouncing that right,
Supreet Mummy
Unverified
36:24
Mr. Gary profit, yeah, if you will
Speaker 107
36:29
stay who you're with, uh, uh, today I'm here with the Arkansas
Speaker 108
36:33
Tobacco Control Board. I'm chairman of the Arkansas Tobacco Control Board, uh, been on the board for about 7 years and uh but I'm also a retailer in the state of Arkansas. Uh, we've got convenience stores and supermarkets, uh, and the board just an overview of where the board is at. Uh, we, we approve. All the permits, uh, for retail and wholesale in the state of
Arkansas, they come to us from Tobacco control, and we have been looking for direction on vapor products, uh, vapor products, it's almost like a kind of a wild wild west, I think, uh, the bill that was talked about earlier uh from 2015 started just down the right path, but we're looking for additional uh help with knowing that the products that are in vape are are healthy products
and knowing what those products are. And that's uh basically uh one of the biggest things that are an issue, and I speak for the board when I say this, uh, are an issue for the board when we're approving vape permits either for wholesale or retail permits. Alright, any questions from
Senator Terry Rice
Unverified
38:01
Thank you for being here. You said you're looking
Speaker 111
38:08
for a healthy. Advantages To know what the ingredients are. We're looking to uh for Help on that front. And you're that
Senator Terry Rice
Unverified
38:17
you're the tobacco control board, Chairman of the tobacco Control Board. Are you looking for healthier things and
Speaker 107
38:24
tobacco products? Well, we're looking to know what we're approving. Thank you. All right, any other questions from the committee?
Senator Jim Petty
Unverified
38:34
Of Tripetty. So we heard earlier about the delays in the length of time to
get approval of the product. Are you thinking that you would have that approval, approval of products here in Arkansas, or are you going to defer to the federal folks to approve the products that you that you will then determine our healthy, but we would defer to the federal registry of that would
Speaker 108
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give us a path uh to for knowing what are in those products, uh down the road. Mr. Prophetty, if the, if the other states that
Senator Gary Stubblefield
Unverified
39:20
have not uh complied with the federal mandate
to do this. Are they in violation of the Constitution? Are they in violation of the Constitution. I don't think so. I'm not a lawyer, I'm
Speaker 114
39:30
not sure. So if they're just not doing what the feds say to do, they're not in violation of any.
Speaker 108
39:43
No, but I mean, we're looking for the feds uh to be more of a direction for us, uh, to where that there is an eventual uh knowledge of the products and what are in the products that we're approving. We, we worry about the liability of, of the permitting process where we're approving permits on products that we're not sure about what's in those products and we're looking for some kind of direction as to knowing what that is. So you're looking for direction from the feds.
Senator Gary Stubblefield
Unverified
40:13
Yes, for the the same kind of direction we got from COVID and several of these other issues. I, yes, sir. OK. Any other questions from the
committee? Mr. Prophet, thank you for your testimony. Uh, Robert Eden. You're if
Robert Eaton
Unverified
40:34
you'll tell us who you're with. State your name for the record.
Speaker 123
40:44
Yes, my name is Robert Eaton. I'm with Abbey Road. I'm a district manager, um, uh, as you know, Abbey Road is a historic retail location business in Arkansas. I'm sure most of you have heard of it. Um, I strongly oppose SB 252 because a product registry will not stop counterfeit and illegal vape products. It will only create a system that is easy to exploit. If all the company has to do is submit an application to get on the registry. How does that stop bad actors from getting in. The
window for abuse is wide open. Any company, even though selling questionable or low quality products can apply and be listed. A registry does not mean the products are safe. It only means that they were submitting paperwork. At the time, at the same time, counterfeiters don't care about registries. It's easy to fake labels and packaging to make illegal vapes look like approved ones. Right now unregulated Chinese disposable vapes are flooding the market and nothing about this registry will stop them.
Meanwhile, licensed retailers like us don't sell these products. We follow the law, we check IDs, and we only carry regulated brands. But if SB 252 passes, legal businesses will be the ones tied up in regulations while illegal sellers continue to operate without consequences. And let's be honest, kids aren't getting vapes from responsible stores like ours. They're buying them online from older friends, from gas stations and shops that don't follow the law, a register
you won't change that. If lawmakers truly want to stop unsafe vapes, they should focus on enforcement, shutting down unlicensed sellers, stopping illegal imports and increasing penalties for those who sell to minors. A registry won't stop counterfeiters. It just creates an easy system for bad actors to manipulate while doing nothing to fix the problem. I urge you to vote no on SB 252.
Speaker 125
42:39
Thank you. Committee. Do you have any questions? Or say no. Thank you. Thank you.
Senator Gary Stubblefield
Unverified
42:52
Next is Camille. Ron Bronics. But Speaking yes. Uh, Camilla
Speaker 128
43:05
Rihu, Arkansas Advocates for children and families. Yes. And I'm only going to be speaking about a
Camila Riho
Unverified
43:11
kind of a component of it. So thank you to the chair and members of the committee. My name is Camila Riho and I'm the health policy director at
Speaker 131
43:18
Arkansas Advocates Search Children and Families. So for almost 50 years now,
Arkansas Advocates has worked to ensure that children and their families have opportunities to leave healthy and productive lives and realize their full potential, um, we do support SB 252 because children shouldn't be targeted by marketing for addictive and harmful products, um, young. People are especially vulnerable to advertising tactics that make harmful substances seem appealing. So by working on a registry to make sure that we're paying attention to how products are marketed to kids, um, we can
help protect children from early exposure and potential lifelong customers and health issues. That's all we wanted to say on this. So thank you so much for your time. Any, uh,
Senator Gary Stubblefield
Unverified
44:05
ma'am, hang on just a second, uh, Senator Bra, you're recognized for question. Thank you. How long have you
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
44:12
been with Arkansas Advocates for children. I've been with
Speaker 134
44:15
advocates since 2023. 2023. I'm just curious, is this,
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
44:18
is this a position change because I went to a event for
Arkansas advocates, and they were supportive of the recreational marijuana amendment at that time, like literature supporting of it, very much advocating. For it's for its passage. I don't think we actually supported that, but I was not the health policy director at the time of that,
Speaker 131
44:38
but I don't think we took a position in support of the amendment I'm just saying they did take
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
44:44
a position. I'm just curious if that position has changed. I don't think that we have a current position on any current
Speaker 131
44:55
medical marijuana. I do know that reducing criminalization is something that advocates is in support of, but that doesn't mean that we're any, in any way supportive of children using nicotine or marijuana products. So a criminalization issue, right? OK. All
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
45:07
right, thank you. All right. Any other questions from the
Speaker 140
45:11
committee? Sorry, I didn't mean to run
Senator Gary Stubblefield
Unverified
45:13
out, you're excused, ma'am. Thank you. Uh Sha Collier
Here to speak against the bill. Yeah Good morning. If your title so you wear
Speaker 145
45:41
them, state your name again for the record, yes sir. My name is Sean Pelletier. Last name's French. I don't pronounce it. I don't expect anybody else to either. I'm currently here representing a company called Vapormaven. In this state we have 42 different stores overall as a corporation, we run 233, I believe, at this current time.
Bills like these. They don't work for the the people up here that came from here before me kind of already went over this. A registry that only requires you to apply, does not require compliance in its effect. That means that essentially you're on the list solely because you paid to be on the list. It's not very effective. The government has a history of
doing things like this where they make a knee-jerk reaction. That not only doesn't Address the issue, but almost ironically almost always makes the issue worse. When you reduce the supply and supply from reputable vendors, you open the market up for a black market to exist, which almost always will, and then you have the supply coming from places that cannot be verified or traced.
This causes a lot of issues in the industry as it is. From a reputable source, we already fight a lot of counterfeit issues coming from China being sold in gas stations and little supermarket or little markets down the road that don't have to follow the same stringent guidelines that we do as a corporate quality issue. This kind of thing just encourages it even more. The argument that we are looking for a healthier alternative. To tobacco, which contains 7000
plus chemicals, 69 of which are at least known to cause cancer or things like arsenic, formaldehyde, lead. Um, it just seems to be a standard that we don't apply to anything else in the industry other than vape currently, even part of the bill that says that you can't have marketing for Uh, Candy's cartoons, bright labels, cakes, candy, you know, any references to anything that children might like is only applied to the vape industry. It's not applied to alcohol, it's not applied to any other
thing that that is currently age restricted. It's just a weird double standard that exists for a product that is perfectly FDA legal and its most deadly form of tobacco, but in the alternate form has the highest number of regulations on it you could apply in any industry. Uh I think the folks that have come before me have done a really good job in addressing this so far, so I think that's about as much as I can add to this conversation. Our committee, any questions from the committee?
Senator Gary Stubblefield
Unverified
48:32
See. Thank you, Mr. Pole. Our next we have Alex Haywood. Speaking against the bill. You'll
stay who you're with and your name again for the record will you recognize. Good morning, senators.
Speaker 150
48:53
My name's Alex Hagwood. I'm a district manager with Abbey Road. Um, I've been working in the vape industry since 2018. Over the years, I've had the privilege of
helping hundreds of individuals from transition from smoking to vaping, a much healthier alternative. In my experience, many people initially turned to vaping as a way to stop smoking. For some, it's a process of gradually reducing nicotine intake until they're able to quit vaping altogether. I've personally witnessed countless individuals who, without the option of vaping, would have struggled to quit smoking altogether. Vaping offers them a crucial tool in their jour journey towards a smoke-free life. For 14 years, my mother struggled to quit smoking cigarettes, trying everything from nicotine patches to other
secession aids, but nothing worked until she was educated about vaping and after it, after that, it helped her quit smoking for good. My mom is now vape and smoke-free for 2 years now, only because of vaping. It is important to acknowledge that not every secession product works for everyone, for many smokers, patches, beers, jewel, and other products simply do not help them quit. Vaping with flavors on the other hand, has proven to be an effective and flexible alternative for people looking to break free from the grip of cigarette addiction.
While no no solution is perfect. Vaping has been the most reliable option for many helping them significantly. produce their cigarette consumption consumption and eventually quitting. I am deeply concerned about the potential consequences of SB 252, which could take away the very products that have helped so many former smokers. If SB 252 passes, many individuals who rely on vaping to stay off cigarettes could be pushed back to smoking. The reality is, without vaping as an alternative, they might not have any other effective options to
quit. This bill could inadvertently reverse years of progress in helping people quit smoking and instead push them back to a more harmful and deadly habit. IG as policymakers to consider the lives and health of the people who have successfully used vaping as a tool to quit smoking and vote no on SB 252. Thank you for your time. All right, thank you. Come, uh, Senator Bryant,
Senator Gary Stubblefield
Unverified
50:58
you have a question? Thank you, Mr. Chair. So you've been in
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
51:01
the industry since 2018. Our, so there's, there's vapes that contain nicotine, then
there's vapes that are just flavored like skin free. Are they currently treated differently. They are all treated the same, nicotine free and
Speaker 150
51:17
nicotine vapes are all treated OK, so they're all
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
51:20
under current regulatory scheme. So out of all the products that you've passed that you've cataloged and and put on your shelf, and they didn't sell it, so you took off your shelf and all manner of retail works. What, what example could you give us where somebody got
outside of the the Chinese base, single use disposable. That you probably do not sell because who would want that reputation to sell those. So the products that you do sell, how many have came back saying, hey, this is a bad product, get it off your shelf. I think I went to the hospital 10 times over it or what is the scenario look like when that occurs? Honestly, I have never had that scenario happen where
Speaker 154
52:04
a customers came to me and say, hey, this put me in the hospital. Um, I have had
Speaker 150
52:11
concerns where, hey, you know, this, this flavor doesn't taste the same as it used to and typically it's due to changing in flavoring, but I've never had a situation where somebody's been like this put me in the hospital or anything like that, or, hey, my kid got a hold of this, or I had to go
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
52:28
to Med Express for a an issue or uh he gave me a headache. or Um, the headache situation typically is just too much
Speaker 154
52:36
nicotine for people, and in that case, you just taper them down to a lower nicotine level and
Speaker 150
52:43
then typically that works for them and they're fine with that. Um, a lot of those cases that I've seen have been where it's too much nicotine or just the wrong flavor for them. So the options are important.
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
52:55
So everything that's on your list now. has
to be in child childproof containers that all, all the standards that are applied that this bill really just repeats what is an existing code. What this bill would do is say, hey, this this list of of 1000 that have been sold on the
market for a decade or better. We're going to reduce that down to who has the money to pay to play. OK, thank you. Thank you. Hm Any other questions
Senator Gary Stubblefield
Unverified
53:32
from the committee? are seen and thank you. Next we have mommy. Supreme mommy.
Robert Eaton
Unverified
53:45
So But I hope I'm pronouncing your name right. Uh, if you'll stay who you're with and
Supreet Mummy
Unverified
53:58
So, state your name again, you're recognized. Hello, my name is Supreet Mummy.
Speaker 166
54:03
I am the owner of Abbey Road. We have been in business since 2014, and we operate 28 locations, primarily in the central Arkansas area. We have roughly 100 staff members.
I am here to ask you to vote no on SB 252. This bill wants to restrict nicotine products to only allow FDA approved products to be sold in Arkansas. This will remove roughly 97% of vapor products in Arkansas. There are only a handful of products that have passed FDA approval or are on the list for approval and those are jewel in views, which are both owned by tobacco companies. Altria and RJ Reynolds. Every other e-liquor company has been issued a market denial
order, also known as a MDEO, and they are currently tied in litigation. This bill is an attempt by tobacco companies to bully its way to sell an inferior product. Keep in mind in 2022, Jewell was involved in a two-year class action lawsuit that Arkansas was a part of attorney General Leslie Rutledge settled with Jewel with a $13.5 million settlement in this class action lawsuit. Courts deceptive marketing and sales practices. Leslie Rutledge
even quoted, It is the fault of companies like Juel who spread misinformation and incentivized youth to buy vaping products that created this epidemic that continues to be a prevalent problem in our schools and neighborhoods. If you pass SB 252, these are the FDA approved products, we will be forced to sell. We currently do not sell products in our stores, but we do sell used products. They account for less than 1% of our vapor product sales.
That is because of the better options available for our customers. This is an attempt by big tobacco companies to stifle fair competition. We serve roughly 42,000 customers a month, and they would be furious if all they had to choose was jewel oruse products. This bill, if it passes, will force us to have to sell the same products to stay in business. The real corporate corporate are the Chinese disposables coming in. There is no regulation on
him. The Biden administration basically gave them a loophole to come to the state. I believe if we were to tackle anything, these are the products that we have to tackle. I urge you to vote no on SB 252. Any questions from the committee? center-right Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Speaker 168
56:40
What, what's your shop name, your Abbey Road Abbey
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
56:46
Road, yes. So do you currently sell Chinese
Speaker 170
56:52
vapes? We do have disposables in our stores. What's, what's, uh, What's
Speaker 166
56:57
the reason for that. That's what every adult wants at this point. Earlier somebody was asking a question of what the market share is, based on our numbers, there are roughly 30% of our nicotine revenue. Adults are loving these products. The convenience, the ease of use, they love it, um, it's just part of the problem. Yeah. OK, so I'm just, I'm just trying
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
57:23
to parse out the, the advocates for the vape industry that want to help versus
the mixed company of those that are OK to help but also to harm. That's what I'm hearing with the,
with the Chinese vape issue. They help
Speaker 166
57:38
people get off of cigarettes and get started vaping, and then they eventually make their changeover to open systems e-liquid where you fill your tank and change your coil. The problem with products like Jewel views. Disposables is they're very high
in nicotine, roughly 50 mg of nicotine. It's just too much nicotine, and that's what causes people to have any kind of adverse reactions too much nicotine consumption, headaches, stomachaches. People don't know. Average nicotine in open system is 3 or 6 mg of nicotine. And so these are the same products that other companies in Arkansas like Harps, Edward's Hoo Giant, those kind of places want to sell our jewel inbu products. They're easy for them to sell. There's no sales
tactics. There's no knowledge. There's nothing behind it, just an easy sale. So you, you sell them to compete
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
58:32
abused products and like I said, they barely
Speaker 166
58:34
make 1% of our revenue. People just do not like them. But I mean the Chinese products you sell them to. If
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
58:42
you did not sell them, they'd get them somewhere else and they would go drive customers elsewhere. They would go somewhere
Speaker 171
58:49
else. People can still get them online. People get them through knockoff wholesalers, people that don't have permits in the state,
constant battle for us. OK, so
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
59:00
ban the Chinese vapes, put everybody on an even playing field as, as they've been regulated for the past 1510, 15 years.
Speaker 166
59:07
Some regulation is the right way to go to make this industry cleaner. safer. One thing I forgot to mention is with this bill, it would just create a big burden in this industry. The penalty, I believe, if you sell a product not on the registry bill is about $1000 per SKU.
we sometimes have 300 plus bottles of e-liquid on our shelves. What happens if something is tied in litigation on the federal level and it gets revoked for some reason to. Control Board comes in tomorrow. That's a possible $300,000 fine I have to pay. How do you survive that? big, big burden for us. Are any of the questions from the committee. Hart, Mr. Mo, you're you're
Speaker 168
59:59
thank you're excuse. We have 22 left to speak against, uh. Remember Williams? Sway,
Senator Gary Stubblefield
Unverified
1:00:13
if you'll stay tun full name and who you represent, you'll recognize. Hi guys, my name is
Speaker 176
1:00:19
Emma Williams, and I'm a general manager for a small business, Serenity Babes. While I've never imagined myself
running a vape store of all things, I've found a tremendous joy in helping people quit smoking since 2020. I have worked closely with many people over the years that I've been able to break generational cycles and finally hold their grandbabies without smelling like cigarette smoke. This bill proposed will not only make quitting smoking harder, but it will lead to more cigarette consumption and shut down small businesses just like mine all over the state of Arkansas. This registry bill bans product that is sold in my shop.
And would leave us with and many others with no choice but to close our doors rather than upholding this registry bill, it is more effective to focus on stronger regulation regarding disposable products and limiting access to minors. This could address numerous potentially this could address the public concerns with removing numerous potentially help without removing numerous potentially helpful tools to quit smoking from the market. We aim to emphasize harm reduction for adults, individual rights, practical solutions. We have been in business for over a decade because we uphold these values.
If passed, this bill could destroy small businesses across Arkansas. In Louisiana, when they passed the registry bill just like this one. My shop had an influx of Louisiana residents coming in to buy the exact same products that were banned on the other side of the state line, paying right into Arkansas taxes in order to do so. We understand the concerns against vaping, but we strive to provide as many options as possible to keep adults away from cigarettes. Please protect small businesses in Arkansas and vote no on SB 252. Thank you for your time.
Speaker 179
1:02:10
you. Sweet And the last one to testify Josh Jones. Hello, my name is
Joshua Jones
Unverified
1:02:24
Joshua Jones, and I'm a district manager for Abbey Road. I currently oversee 8 separate locations and 25 employees.
The bill being proposed today will put a large strain on our industry and leave a lot of my people without jobs. All of my people are hard workers and have families to feed. These people and myself included every day, see the benefit of options and alternatives for consumers. Vaping gives our consumers an ability to effectively lower their nicotine intake and eventually quit altogether. When buying a device from one of our shops, there are multiple points of sale in order to keep your device working for more than a couple of days.
ers regularly replace their coils or atomizer, replace glass tanks when dropped and replaced their juice weekly. Each time a customer comes in for anything in our shops, they must show an ID, keeping up with your device and maintaining it, it is not as as easy as scoping out a good gas station for pre-filled pods once every 2 weeks. We see our customers almost every other day, so they can maintain their device, removing prefilled pods and pre-filled devices from the market will
Cut underage vaping tenfold. This bill is about protecting children and ease of access to nicotine. The products and affected by this bill are products most consumed by underage individuals. The products affected by this bill are hard to maintain for underage individuals. I ask that you take my talking points today with consideration and propose a better bill than we have today. Thank you for your time. Any questions? Any questions from the committee? All right, see you then. Thank you, Mr.
Senator Gary Stubblefield
Unverified
1:04:06
Mr. Jones. Senator Bryant, uh, if, if it's
Speaker 136
1:04:11
OK with the chair, can I have uh David Potter come
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
1:04:14
up for a round of questioning. Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead, Mr. Potter, you want to come back up?
Speaker 185
1:04:20
David Potter, I'm the enforcement director. Thank you, thank you. I
Speaker 187
1:04:29
apologize if I stepped out and you came up.
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
1:04:32
I just wanted to clar get my head around a few
things, so each one of these stores have to have a permit issued by Your office for tobacco control, yes, for tobacco control to sell any type of product. Yeah, be. So is your inspectors going out, do you, what reports are you getting back of Um, concerns outside of the of the Chinese disposables. you know, you've been doing this for 10 years, what, what kind of reports are coming back that hey, we've got to put
Some more controls on these products, excluding the disposables. Well, I think the, the primary
Speaker 189
1:05:12
concern is we don't exactly know what is in some of these substances. That is the primary concern that that my understanding is, as of this fiscal year we've conducted right around 4000 sales to minor compliance checks on all of our locations. We're running at about a 6.5% violation rate. When my agents go out, they're asking for a mix between tobacco products and vape products. So, uh, we're asking for a plethora of different things. So as, as we
get those back, we obviously see those, we see what they are, um, some of them are sealed pods, some of them are mixed. Thanks. So do you ever, do you ever pull a sample and just send it off for
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
1:05:49
testing, just for curiosity of what's of any concern. No, sir, we don't. We don't have any mechanism as far as a state laboratory to
Speaker 189
1:05:54
test any of these products that we get back, and I think that is probably one of the areas of concern. OK. Do you, do you handle the reports if there is a tainted product in the product
line at any of these shops. We do if we get complaints that there's something that's made somebody sick or something of that nature, we send agents out to investigate that as
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
1:06:17
well. So what's the ratio of those complaints to your as
Speaker 192
1:06:21
far as making somebody sick as far as, is, is just fake products, very
Speaker 84
1:06:25
few, very few. OK. All right. Well, that's, that's all I got. Thank you.
Senator Gary Stubblefield
Unverified
1:06:30
Thank you. Thank you, Senator Wright. Uh, Senator dismay. You're recognized too close for your bill. I do have. There was
Senator Jonathan Dismang
Unverified
1:06:39
some minor changes. They were just, uh, I think there were some parentheses that was left off and the changing of uh an or to an of. If you don't mind, I'd like to adopt that amendment. It doesn't change anything to the bill probably could have been corrected by a technical corrections, but I'd rather go ahead and if you don't mind, adopt that amendment. It is literally removing a quotation mark around the words cake or cake, and then the other is changing the word. it, uh, or to of. And those were
both flagged in the report on the revenue report that you had attached to the The bill. OK, is there, is there any questions
Senator Gary Stubblefield
Unverified
1:07:19
from the committee about the amendment, Senator Petty. So Senator dismay on the First Amendment
Senator Jim Petty
Unverified
1:07:27
there and and maybe my eyes are just deceiving me, but is there a change or are we just adding a space
Senator Jonathan Dismang
Unverified
1:07:33
between the lines. It removes the parentheses, uh, yeah, so. And to show what you're removing, you put in parentheses, but then, so it looks like it's coming back, but
you're removing, see how the first has 2, and then the second, which actually the has one. OK, and then again these were both, you know, catches when
they did the revenue. Any other questions on the amendment? We have a motion to adopt
Speaker 38
1:07:54
the amendment. Second, in discussion. All those if I
Senator Gary Stubblefield
Unverified
1:07:57
say ah. You remember pastor explain? All right, thank you, members. um, for, for passing an amendment. Again, it was
Senator Jonathan Dismang
Unverified
1:08:13
technical and was one that was offered whenever they did the report. So there's nothing more to it than that. Um, the one thing I haven't done today is talk out both sides of my mouth. I believe that there should be a register because we don't know what people are consuming and uh to the testimony, we don't have the ability to test that. But when a shop comes in and testifies to you and tells you that they're concerned about Chinese vapes, but every other product they sell. on their shelves or you don't have to worry about those. They don't need further regulation or
some FDA approval or even to be applied for with the FDA. are also selling Chinese vapes on their shelves. The concern isn't about protecting consumers, it's about a bottom line making more money inside those shops. And if they're willing to harm or sell products to their consumers that they have no idea what's in it. Advocating for, you know, a tobacco-free life or whatever it may be. But at the same time, I mean, how are you going to trust what's going into the juices that they're mixing to.
If they're willing to harm in one based on a revenue. What says they're not on the other. All this is doing is allowing tobacco control to have a mechanism to know what is on the shelves. Without that, there's almost zero ability to enforce. For instance, there's a talk about, well, let's ban the Chinese vapes. How do you know what product is made in China or not, and what guarantee are you going to have that you will know if it's made in China or not. It's not like the Chinese are good actors and the European Union when they banned
disposables, the first thing they did was come back with another product to undermine that new rule and regulation that
came in place, and I don't think we'd see anything different here. Uh, again, I this isn't closing stores or
an attempt to close stores, but I think we should and our consumers should have some reliance on what products they're, they're utilizing and
we should allow tobacco control to have some ability to regulate. With that, I'm close for the bill and appreciate a good vote. All right, Senator Dima close
Senator Gary Stubblefield
Unverified
1:10:19
for Senate Bill 252, uh, chair entertain a motion. We have a motion to
pass. We have a second and just suspended. do pass as amended, uh, We have a 2nd in discussion on the motion. OK, Ross, you
Senator Terry Rice
Unverified
1:10:38
know, I, I, I would love to protect kids and, and hope we do everything we can. You know, federal government. Says marijuana is still illegal.
State of Arkansas set up a Thing because people said they wanted it and made it under medical. And we're basically state of Arkansas selling marijuana. So we don't comply with everything federal does. I think there is some things need to be done to make some vaping. More safe. But uh we either go. To me Too far one way, too far the
other way, and that that's a concern to me what this does to small business. And uh I see it happen so much again. Liquor Cigarettes, tobacco. We've got double standards and what we're doing with vaping. I'm not promoting vaping. I'm just saying that's, that's a double standard. That's a problem for me. Thank you. Are any other Senator Bryant? um, I would say, thank you, Mr.
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
1:11:51
Chair. I would say I'm by my line of questioning is probably
indicative that I'm, I'm not supportive of this type of bill. When I jumped into other industries that are regulated, that are, you know, governed by this body to see how it plays out and their system would I what I have realized is There is a very strong influence of the haves and the have nots and the haves typically control the narrative of how the mom and pops play out in their small businesses. And so I, I would rather see something that
attempts to ban the bad actors and then punish those that proliferate the bad actors. I think that is a more sensible approach for an industry that has by their own testimony and by the testimony of the control board don't have a problem with bad products for the most part. Like there's always a concern, but his own testimony was a 10 years, yeah, we don't may not know what's in them, or we'd like to know, but there's really not a concern of that's over, overburdening our system to determine what's in them, so I,
I would prefer a more systematic approach rather than the expansion of the overreach that that this introduces. Thank you.
Senator Gary Stubblefield
Unverified
1:13:02
All right, any, any other questions from committee or statements? All right, we have a motion
to pass as amended. All those in favor say aye, all opposed. Roll call it
Speaker 203
1:13:24
To. Thank you. Yeah. Oh goodness. Senator Bryan. Senator Bryant, no. Uh, Senator Davis, Senator Davis, yes.
Senator Wallace, Senator Wallace, yes, Senator Rice, Senator Rice? No, Senator Hester
Speaker 207
1:14:02
Senator Hester, yes, Senator English so your English, yes, Senator Petty. Senator Petty, no. Bills
Robert Eaton
Unverified
1:14:40
We have, we have a couple more bills. You're not gonna find your
Senator Gary Stubblefield
Unverified
1:14:48
set to break, uh. Senator Johnson, if you
want to go up to the
Speaker 212
1:14:57
on the desk. And state your name and your district,
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
1:15:02
you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Martin Johnson, Senator, District 17. And I'm here today to present Senate Bill 324, which I'm proud
to say is a one-page bill, uh, we had an interesting debate, you recall on my other bills, Senate Bill 87, they both deal with membership, the county planning board and some other issues related to planning board. I'm happy to report that uh we have negotiated with folks from Association of Counties, especially want to thank Uh Mr. Mark Whitmore for working with me, uh, on coming up with the bill. I will tell you we do
have an amendment and staff will be passing that out, and I would like to, after y'all have a chance to look at it and move for the adoption of the amendment or ask for a motion to adopt the amendment, I should say. And what the amendment simply does the existing bill says that at least 1/3 of the members of the county planning board, uh, uh, Or at least 2/3 of the voting members of the county planning board shall reside in unincorporated area in the
county. This changes the 2/3 to a majority. You have heard,
Senator Gary Stubblefield
Unverified
1:16:21
uh, an explanation of the amendment. Is there any discussion on the amendment. See none, the chair would entertain a motion. We have a motion to, we have a motion, and second, to pass all those in favor, say I, I opposed. All
Speaker 212
1:16:40
right. You may proceed, Senator Johnson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, committee, uh,
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
1:16:48
I learned my lesson on the previous bill. It was so confusing even I'm not sure I understood it completely. So, you know, we all live and learn. You can sometimes teach an old dog new tricks. Uh, this bill is simple. It says that a county planning board the bill as amended says that a county planning board that a majority of those members must live in the areas that is affected by the county planning board, that is the unincorporated areas and not one of the municipal. Uh,
I hope that's a full explanation, but I was certainly answer any questions and it can be a member might have. Thank
Senator Gary Stubblefield
Unverified
1:17:26
you. All right, committee, you've heard an explanation
Speaker 104
1:17:33
of the bill. Any questions? And he won the audience, you have
Senator Breanne Davis
Unverified
1:17:36
questions, Davis, sorry. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, so this will apply to all counties. And what is that conversation been like with the county association of counties. There was only one county judge that didn't.
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
1:17:51
Really had a problem with it and that's Pulaski County, nothing new and I'm happy to, to, to visit with him, but again, the problem is we know we don't want to belabor the point because y'all have heard more than you want to hear about it, but Senator Davis, you, you do understand that this was a, came from a situation where we had this particular county the board was doing things and it affected the unincorporated area, and we felt that the people live in that area didn't have an adequate. voice and it that they were
being affected. This is, this is the numbers are compromised, but the principle is the same that uh if you're, you're, you know, we know all the famous thing about taxation, representation in this case, it's regulation about representation. This at least guarantees that at least a majority would represent the area that's affected and would answer the objections of folks like uh my male friends. Judge Bromley from Saline County who has had a legitimate point
about making sure that people that lived in the unincorporated, if they were annexed into uh a city, they would still be able to serve in that position, and he had a gentleman that was doing a fine job on the planning board that that that was his situation. So I hope that answers your question, Senator. Art, San Petty, you have a question. Thank you,
Senator Jim Petty
Unverified
1:19:16
Mr. Chair. I know it's still early in session, but they're all starting to run together. Is this different than what you had run earlier that required more
than 200,000 in the in the we
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
1:19:27
took all that out and you might recall in, in the debate on the floor, Senator Petty, that uh uh uh Senator Payton asked me with this about this limiting it to this county that county, and he made a point, he said, well, if we can do it, we should be equal around it. So the point is, the principle I think is the same, but, but I, I, I tried and failed to meet all of the, the, every, we got 75 different
opinions about how this should be set up and I thought I took Senator Payton's point to heart that it would apply equally. It won't require an extraordinary majority to be from that area. Again, if, if I were He gave me a blank check and said, how do you want it? I'd say, I think they all ought to live in the area that is affected, but uh that doesn't mean that someone that lives in an incorporated area has nefarious feelings toward those that live in the unincorporated area, but it just guarantees
that a majority and if it's a board of 5, that would be 3. If it's board of 7, that would be 4 would live in the area that's actually affected and in your part of the world, they, you know, that's not saying they love it, but they, they're OK with it. According to Mr. Whitmore. So, Do we know
Senator Jim Petty
Unverified
1:20:47
how many existing boards this is going to affect. I don't think, but they're, uh,
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
1:20:56
let me, let me clarify to answer this way, Senator Petty. Some boards exercise much more authority and do more things than others. Uh, as, as, uh, Judge Brumley explained to me, they have some specific needs that they are addressing due to growth in Salem County and they don't do some of the things that we were concerned about that Pulaski County was trying to do. Uh, so when we say we have a planning board, that doesn't mean they're all doing exactly
the same, shall we say, level of regulation, but we have about 15 counties that take advantage of the law to have a planning board of some jurisdiction and we have, I guess that means we've got 16 or 60 that that don't have this, although it's, it's the legislation is permissive and allows counties to do this, but it doesn't say you must do all of these things, say that a large cities's planning commission would do. I hope that answers your
Senator Jim Petty
Unverified
1:21:57
question. It it does. I'm just, I'm just worried about my uh current county that has been very vocal on this having a concern that their board makeup would be affected when this goes into, you know, into effect, and so I'm, I'm just a little bit hesitant at this point because of that pushback previously.
They were excluded before and so they were, they didn't like it, but, but now it's, it's going to affect them, potentially, and I just, I don't know
Speaker 222
1:22:37
about that conversation if I might, I'd like to uh uh quote from uh the text
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
1:22:44
I received from from Mr. Whitmore and uh He said, uh, Uh Well, let me
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
1:23:01
This is from from Mr. Whitmore. He said the Benton County judge would like to oppose but accepts that the other county judges and leadership say that I'm, that you, meaning me, are working with this and that the majority is much better than 2/3, and that, that was the way, in other words, it's not the perfect bill. It is in the nature of a compromise and the Association of Counties is that they can go they can live with this. And again, I have tried to work with them and I will continue to work with them and if we have any
specific situations that this needs to be tweaked later, I would certainly be willing to do this because where they have legitimate function, we want them to function. This is just to make sure those people that are affected are represented. Senator Bryant, do you have a question? Senator
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
1:23:52
Johnson, I, I thank you for, for working. Working this out to the best that you could do. Um, I know when, when I had a brief discussion with County Judge, the concern was how do you find
qualified people to sit on, on these boards that are well rounded, um, I told him I was in support of what you were trying to do because if you have a nine-member board and they're all, uh, municipal residents that are Accustomed to and comfortable with zoning, they won't know how to relate to somebody that is accustomed to wanting to be left alone out in the county, so just like I would not envision a
majority of the city planners to be living out in the county, um, I, I'm supportive of this regardless of of maybe the feelings of certain county judge while I respect that, as I sat for 4 years as a planning liaison to the planning board, I could see just the differences of how discussion was targeted when somebody that lived and maybe previously served on a planning board of a city was trying to address the issue versus somebody that uh liked to be left to their own devices out in the county, so I
don't think this tilts the scales except to say, hey, at least the majority, 50 + 1 understands and respects what it is to live unincorporated and then they can still lean into the other members that live in the city to maybe gain some perspective and some advice on how it works, so I'm appreciative and very supportive. this and thank you. Wouldn't you agree? And I would agree. Thank you, Senator Bryan. All right. Any other questions
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
1:25:27
from the committee? Ain't no anyone in the audience
Senator Gary Stubblefield
Unverified
1:25:34
would like to speak for yet. Saying none, the chairman entertain a motion, uh. The Pa has amended. We do passes amended motion and 2, any discussion. All those in favor say aye, all opposed. Congratulations, Mr. Johnson, Senator John. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Uh, Senator Bryant,
Supreet Mummy
Unverified
1:25:55
are you running your way? Mr. Chair, I'd like to, I'd like to wait and have it on the
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
1:26:06
agenda for next 2. Wednesday Tuesday, next Tuesday, today's next Tuesday, yes sir, Senator Urban is not here. Uh It's 11:30. We will give her just another minute or two. We text her. so she
Robert Eaton
Unverified
1:26:26
wanted us to tell you she wasn't going to come back. OK.
Senator Gary Stubblefield
Unverified
1:26:33
All right, thank you. All right, seeing no other business. We're adjourn.
Agenda
CALL TO ORDER
SB252 J. Dismang TO INFORM THE PUBLIC OF HEALTH RISKS CAUSED BY VAPOR PRODUCTS AND E-LIQUID PRODUCTS; TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF ARKANSAS YOUTH; AND TO DECLARE AN EMERGENCY.
REGULAR AGENDA
SB324 M. Johnson TO AMEND THE LAW CONCERNING THE MEMBERSHIP OF A COUNTY PLANNING BOARD.
ADJOURNED
Documents
| Title | Type | Pages | Source |
|---|---|---|---|
| Agenda — CITY, COUNTY & LOCAL AFFAIRS COMMITTEE - SENATE AND HOUSE, Mar 4, 2025 | Agenda | 1 | Official source ↗ |
Speakers
Senator Gary Stubblefield
Unverified
Senator Jonathan Dismang
Unverified
Speaker 21
Scout Stubbs
Unverified
Speaker 29
Steve Good
Unverified
Speaker 19
Senator Terry Rice
Unverified
Speaker 44
Speaker 61
Speaker 63
Speaker 66
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
Speaker 47
Senator Jim Petty
Unverified
Brett Cossover
Unverified
Speaker 93
Speaker 98
Supreet Mummy
Unverified
Speaker 107
Speaker 108
Speaker 55
Speaker 111
Speaker 114
Robert Eaton
Unverified
Speaker 123
Speaker 125
Speaker 128
Camila Riho
Unverified
Speaker 131
Speaker 134
Speaker 140
Speaker 145
Speaker 150
Speaker 154
Speaker 166
Speaker 168
Speaker 170
Speaker 171
Speaker 176
Speaker 177
Speaker 179
Joshua Jones
Unverified
Speaker 136
Speaker 185
Speaker 187
Speaker 189
Speaker 192
Speaker 84
Speaker 38
Speaker 203
Speaker 207
Speaker 212
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
Speaker 104
Senator Breanne Davis
Unverified
Speaker 222