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Judiciary Committee - Senate

April 14, 2025 ·15 Minutes Upon Adjournment of Senate ·Room 171 ·2:23:16
Video Transcript 1 document

Bills discussed (32)

Bill Title Sponsor Status
HB1916 Act 979 · 6 mentions in chapter, agenda, transcript
Matched: “HB1916 Bentley TO AMEND THE PROTECTING MINORS FROM MEDICAL MALPRAC…”
TO AMEND THE PROTECTING MINORS FROM MEDICAL MALPRACTICE ACT OF 2023; AND TO INCLUDE GENDER-AFFIRMING … Bentley Notification that HB1916 is now Act 979
SB644 · 6 mentions in agenda, chapter, transcript
Matched: “…NDA (Revised 4/14/25 @ 1:27 PM) Changed Meeting Time; Added SB644 Senate Committee on Judiciary Monday, April 14, 2025 15 Min…”
TO AMEND THE LAW CONCERNING THE EXECUTION OF A WRIT OF POSSESSION; AND TO ALLOW … M. McKee Died on Senate Calendar at Sine Die adjournment.
HB1967 Act 981 · 5 mentions in transcript, chapter, agenda
Matched: “What bill are we hearing? House Bill 1967. House Bill 1967. Representative of you would identify”
TO AMEND THE LAW CONCERNING THE UNLAWFUL DISTRIBUTION OF SEXUAL IMAGES OR RECORDINGS. K. Brown Notification that HB1967 is now Act 981
HB1984 Act 984 · 4 mentions in transcript, chapter
Matched: “Uh, Senator Davis. House Bill 1984. Is”
TO CREATE A DESIGNATION FOR A REGISTERED SEX OFFENDER ON A DRIVER'S LICENSE OR IDENTIFICATION … Hudson Notification that HB1984 is now Act 984
HB1975 Act 982 · 3 mentions in agenda, transcript
Matched: “…G THE UNLAWFUL DISTRIBUTION OF SEXUAL IMAGES OR RECORDINGS. HB1975 Gramlich TO CREATE THE CHILD CONTENT CREATION PROTECTION AC…”
TO CREATE THE CHILD CONTENT CREATION PROTECTION ACT. Gramlich Notification that HB1975 is now Act 982
HB1529 Act 827 · 2 mentions in transcript
Matched: “Meeks, HB 1529 concerning deep fake, and it has the attorney General, the…”
TO CREATE THE CRIMINAL OFFENSE OF UNLAWFUL CREATION OR DISTRIBUTION OF DEEPFAKE VISUAL MATERIAL; AND … S. Meeks Notification that HB1529 is now Act 827
HB1959 Act 986 · 2 mentions in chapter, transcript
Matched: “HB1959 M. Brown TO ABOLISH THE USE OF A WRIT OF SCIRE FACIAS AS TH…”
TO ABOLISH THE USE OF A WRIT OF SCIRE FACIAS AS THE MEANS OF REVIVING … M. Brown Notification that HB1959 is now Act 986
HB1611 · 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…estrictions designating areas as 'Members and Staff Only'. HB1611 Gonzales TO AMEND THE DEFINITION OF ANIMAL FIGHTING WITH RE…”
TO AMEND THE DEFINITION OF ANIMAL FIGHTING WITH RESPECT TO THE OFFENSE OF UNLAWFUL ANIMAL … Gonzales Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment.
HB1726 · 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…WRIT OF POSSESSION. DEFERRED BILLS Number Sponsor Subtitle HB1726 Gramlich TO CREATE THE ARKANSAS KIDS ONLINE SAFETY ACT. SB3…”
TO CREATE THE ARKANSAS KIDS ONLINE SAFETY ACT. Gramlich Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment.
HB1848 · 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…ENCE A DEFENDANT FOR A CHARGE THAT RESULTS IN A CONVICTION. HB1848 Hudson TO AMEND THE LAW REGARDING THE PRESUMPTION THAT AN A…”
TO AMEND THE LAW REGARDING THE PRESUMPTION THAT AN AWARD OF JOINT CUSTODY BETWEEN PARENTS … Hudson Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment.
SB144 · 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…TY CORRECTION IN CRIME REDUCTION AND PREVENTION ACTIVITIES. SB144 B. King CONCERNING THE BACKLOG OF INMATES AWAITING TRANSFER…”
CONCERNING THE BACKLOG OF INMATES AWAITING TRANSFER TO THE DIVISION OF CORRECTION; TO PROVIDE FOR … B. King Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment.
SB145 · 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…REATE COUNTY JAIL-STATE INMATE CLOSE-TO- HOME PARTNERSHIPS. SB145 B. King TO AMEND ARKANSAS LAW CONCERNING THE ALLOCATION OF…”
TO AMEND ARKANSAS LAW CONCERNING THE ALLOCATION OF FUNDS RESULTING FROM LITIGATION INVOLVING THE USE … B. King Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment.
SB452 · 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…SB6 B. King TO CREATE THE CRIMINAL OFFENSE OF VACCINE HARM. SB452 B. King CONCERNING CERTAIN CONTRACTS FOR MAINTENANCE OR REC…”
CONCERNING CERTAIN CONTRACTS FOR MAINTENANCE OR RECYCLING OF WIND TURBINES UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES. B. King Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment.
SB461 · 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…Rice Sen. Matt McKee REGULAR AGENDA Number Sponsor Subtitle SB461 J. Scott TO COLLECT DATA REGARDING THE USE OF SOLITARY CONF…”
TO COLLECT DATA REGARDING THE USE OF SOLITARY CONFINEMENT IN ARKANSAS PRISONS AND JAILS. J. Scott Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment.
SB462 · 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…USE OF SOLITARY CONFINEMENT IN ARKANSAS PRISONS AND JAILS. SB462 J. Scott TO CREATE A CERTIFICATE OF EMPLOYABILITY FOR A PER…”
TO CREATE A CERTIFICATE OF EMPLOYABILITY FOR A PERSON WITH A FELONY CONVICTION; AND TO … J. Scott Sine Die adjournment
SB472 · 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…OR RECYCLING OF WIND TURBINES UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES. SB472 J. Bryant TO CREATE THE VIOLATION OF PURCHASE OR POSSESSION…”
TO CREATE THE VIOLATION OF PURCHASE OR POSSESSION OF AN E-LIQUID PRODUCT OR VAPOR PRODUCT … Underwood Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment.
SB477 · 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…AND CIRCUIT COURTS TO ISSUE CERTIFICATES OF EMPLOYABILITY. SB477 G. TO CREATE THE OFFENSE OF THEFT OF EQUIPMENT RENTAL SERVI…”
TO CREATE THE OFFENSE OF THEFT OF EQUIPMENT RENTAL SERVICES. G. Stubblefield Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment.
SB5 · 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…NFORCEMENT OR CRIME VICTIMS REPARATIONS BOARD. Page 2 of 3 SB5 B. King TO ADD THE CRIMINAL OFFENSE OF PRESCRIPTION DRUG HA…”
TO ADD THE CRIMINAL OFFENSE OF PRESCRIPTION DRUG HARM OR HOMICIDE. B. King Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment.
SB501 · 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…OFFENSE OF THEFT OF EQUIPMENT RENTAL SERVICES. Stubblefield SB501 J. Scott TO CREATE THE TENANT POSSESSIONS RECOVERY ACT; AND…”
TO CREATE THE TENANT POSSESSIONS RECOVERY ACT; AND TO REQUIRE A LANDLORD TO PROVIDE CERTAIN … J. Scott Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment.
SB509 · 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…OR HER PARENT OR GUARDIAN BEFORE A CUSTODIAL INTERROGATION. SB509 G. TO CREATE THE OFFENSE OF THEFT OF EQUIPMENT RENTAL SERVI…”
TO CREATE THE OFFENSE OF THEFT OF EQUIPMENT RENTAL SERVICES. G. Stubblefield Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment.
SB548 · 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…E TO A TENANT WHEN A COURT HAS ISSUED A WRIT OF POSSESSION. SB548 G. Leding TO AMEND THE LAW CONCERNING WARRANTS OF ARREST; A…”
TO AMEND THE LAW CONCERNING WARRANTS OF ARREST; AND TO REQUIRE THAT NOTICE OF A … G. Leding Sine Die adjournment
SB549 · 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…WARRANT BE SENT TO THE PERSON NAMED IN THE ARREST WARRANT. SB549 G. Leding TO ENSURE THAT MANDATED COSTS AND FEES PAID BY A…”
TO ENSURE THAT MANDATED COSTS AND FEES PAID BY A DEFENDANT IN A CRIMINAL CASE … G. Leding Sine Die adjournment
SB566 · 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…N AN ACQUITTAL, A DISMISSAL, OR AN ORDER OF NOLLE PROSEQUI. SB566 B. King PROVIDE FOR FUNDING FOR THE EXPANSION, IMPROVEMENT,…”
PROVIDE FOR FUNDING FOR THE EXPANSION, IMPROVEMENT, OR CONSTRUCTION OF STATE AND COUNTY CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES; … B. King Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment.
SB581 · 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…ORRECTIONAL FACILITIES; AND TO ADDRESS PRISON OVERCROWDING. SB581 B. King TO CREATE THE POULTRY INTEGRATORS DECEPTIVE TRADE P…”
TO CREATE THE POULTRY INTEGRATORS DECEPTIVE TRADE PRACTICES AND TAXPAYER PROTECTION ACT. B. King Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment.
SB595 · 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…NG; AND TO CREATE THE OFFENSE OF UNLAWFUL ROOSTER FIGHTING. SB595 G. Leding TO PROVIDE FOR A MINOR'S RIGHT TO CONSULT WITH HI…”
TO PROVIDE FOR A MINOR'S RIGHT TO CONSULT WITH HIS OR HER PARENT OR GUARDIAN … G. Leding Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment.
SB6 · 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…THE CRIMINAL OFFENSE OF PRESCRIPTION DRUG HARM OR HOMICIDE. SB6 B. King TO CREATE THE CRIMINAL OFFENSE OF VACCINE HARM. SB4…”
TO CREATE THE CRIMINAL OFFENSE OF VACCINE HARM. B. King Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment.
SB609 · 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…OR HER PARENT OR GUARDIAN BEFORE A CUSTODIAL INTERROGATION. SB609 J. Scott TO PROVIDE FOR A MINOR'S RIGHT TO CONSULT WITH HIS…”
TO PROVIDE FOR A MINOR'S RIGHT TO CONSULT WITH HIS OR HER PARENT OR GUARDIAN … J. Scott Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment.
SB628 · 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…OFFENSE OF THEFT OF EQUIPMENT RENTAL SERVICES. Stubblefield SB628 Gilmore TO AMEND THE LAW CONCERNING COURT TRANSCRIPT FEES;…”
TO AMEND THE LAW CONCERNING COURT TRANSCRIPT FEES; AND TO INCREASE THE TRANSCRIPT FEES TO … Gilmore Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment.
SB630 · 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…NING HEARINGS ON THE REVOCATION OF PROBATION OR SUSPENSION. SB630 B. Davis TO REQUIRE ONLY A COURT TO FIX PUNISHMENT IF A DEF…”
TO REQUIRE ONLY A COURT TO FIX PUNISHMENT IF A DEFENDANT IS CHARGED WITH A … B. Davis Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment.
SB631 · 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…THE TRANSCRIPT FEES TO WHICH A COURT REPORTER IS ENTITLED. SB631 B. Davis TO AMEND ARKANSAS LAW CONCERNING HEARINGS ON THE R…”
TO AMEND ARKANSAS LAW CONCERNING HEARINGS ON THE REVOCATION OF PROBATION OR SUSPENSION. B. Davis Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment.
SB641 · 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…IS IN A CHILD'S BEST INTEREST WHEN THERE IS DOMESTIC ABUSE. SB641 D. Wallace TO AMEND THE LAW CONCERNING WORK-RELEASE PROGRAM…”
TO AMEND THE LAW CONCERNING WORK-RELEASE PROGRAMS; AND TO ALLOW A SHERIFF TO ELECT TO … D. Wallace Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment.
SB642 · 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…SEX OFFENDER ON A DRIVER'S LICENSE OR IDENTIFICATION CARD. SB642 J. Petty TO CREATE THE FAMILIES' RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIE…”
TO CREATE THE FAMILIES' RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES ACT. J. Petty Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment.

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Unknown speaker 0:00
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 4:00
We have a quorum. Senator McKee, is one of your bills short?
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Unknown speaker 4:33
Well, what's going on with Go do it. Senate Bill 644.
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Speaker 13 5:04
I'm going to let them explain to me how
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Speaker 15 5:20
we're going to... Senator McKee, if y'all would identify yourselves for the record. Matt
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Speaker 17 5:27
McKee, State Senate District 6. J.D. Harper. Arkansas Manufactured Housing
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 5:32
Association. You're recognized to present Senate Bill 644.
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Speaker 15 5:34
Mr. Chairman, if it's okay, I'll let Mr. J.D.
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Speaker 21 5:39
tell you what we're doing. All right. 644, members and Mr. Chairman, it's a
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Speaker 17 5:45
clarification of the writ of possession statute. In a case recently, we had a county attorney that was telling the sheriff in the execution of the writ of possession that the strict letter of the law had to be followed and the personal property had to be removed and stored in a public warehouse. It's hard to do that with a manufactured home. There's not a lot of public warehouse spaces where you can move a house off the property and store it in a public warehouse. The amendment to that section would be that if the home is there, the writ of possession is executed, that the house would stay there for 30 days. People can make arrangements to move the house somewhere else. Just didn't make a practical application of statute or of a writ of possession to move the unit to take the air conditioning loose, take the plumbing loose, take the skirting out, take the anchoring out, and add thousands of dollars of cost to the home to move it. So that's what 644 does. It was part of another bill that was in committee that didn't move, and I asked Senator McKee to strip it out, and here it is. We'd be glad to answer any questions. Questions from committee? Hearing
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 6:56
none, there's no one here to testify for or against. Senator McKee, would you like to close for your bill? Close for my bill. I've moved for a due pass and asked for a good vote. Got a due pass from Senator McKee. Got a second from Senator Gilmore. Any discussion? Hearing none, all for the motion signify by saying aye. All opposed? Thank you, committee. Motion carried. Congratulations. You have passed your bill. Representative Brown, the one that was
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Speaker 13 7:30
here all morning. What bill are we hearing? House Bill 1967.
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 7:44
House Bill 1967. Representative, if you would identify yourself for the
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Representative Matt Brown Unverified 7:51
record. Representative Carolyn Brown, District 67. Committee, I really wish I didn't have to bring this bill to you, but evil people are learning how to be even more evil and our people are suffering and being taken advantage of and being extorted by their images. As our laws currently stand under Arkansas Code 526314, the crime of distributing sexual images without consent is limited in scope. It only applies when the offender is in a current or former dating relationship with the victim. But the reality is, image-based abuse in today's digital world is far broader, more sophisticated and far more harmful than our current statute accounts for. This amendment does three key things. First, it removes the requirement that the perpetrator be a current or former sexual partner or family member of the victim. change reflects the reality that these violations often come from acquaintances, strangers, and those acting out of malice or financial incentive, not just intimate partners. Second, it expands the definition of intent to harm. Under this amendment, if the offender distributes an image with the purpose to cause physical, mental, economic, or reputational harm, or an exchange for something of value, it will be classified as a felony. This appropriately recognizes the serious and often devastating consequences of these acts. Third, it preserves the distinction between malicious conduct and other cases that, while still harmful, may lack that clear intent to harm. In those instances, the offense remains a misdemeanor, ensuring our laws maintain proportionality and fairness. This is a carefully balanced survivor-informed update to our law that responds to the growing and deeply damaging crisis of non-consensual image sharing. It ensures that Arkansas does not fall behind in addressing this modern form of abuse while continuing to respect due process and appropriate sentencing. This bill is narrowly focused, so that it does not conflict with Representative Meeks, HB 1529, concerning deep fake and it has the attorney general the attorney general's office has reviewed it and is in support of it. Questions from committee? Hearing Senator Gilmore. Just really quick representative and
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Senator Ben Gilmore Unverified 10:35
just just more because it's out of curiosity why are we changing it from sexual images or recordings to intimate images? Is there, is there, was there a specific reason that vernacular is used or? No,
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Representative Matt Brown Unverified 10:53
I don't really know why we changed that.
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Senator Ben Gilmore Unverified 10:56
That's fine. I was just, I don't know. Yeah, that's fine. I mean, you clearly have it defined. I just didn't know if there
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Representative Matt Brown Unverified 11:04
was a particular reason, but that's fine. People are, are sharing images that they have taken after drugging individuals and molesting them. They're taking images of loved ones, they're taking images of their fiancés, their wives, family members. It's it's really horrible what's going on. Thank you. Other questions from committing. If you would care, I would be glad to read a brief story if you want to hear that or if you're ready to vote I'm ready to or do pass. Thank you. I think we're probably
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 11:42
ready to vote but we have two people here signed up to speak for McManahan, Catherine McManahan, Sky Tapp. You can sit
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Speaker 42 12:03
here one here and just introduce yourself. You can. You recognize me?
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Senator Terry Rice Unverified 12:13
You'll recognize Senator Rice. You can introduce. Representative Brown, I know you've got witnesses. I know they've been waiting. We've got to go back and session it. I understand. 515, do you
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 12:29
want to pass your bill? I want to pass this bill. I'm making a motion for immediate consideration. Motion for immediate consideration. Anytime we decide to vote, to vote. I have a motion for immediate consideration. There is no second from Senator McKee. There is no discussion. All for the motion signify by saying Aye. All opposed? Motion carried. I have a motion do pass from Senator Gilmore, second from Senator Dees. Any discussion? Hearing none, all for the motion signify by saying aye. Aye. All opposed? Motion carried. Congratulations. Representative Brown, you have passed your bill. Thank you, committee. My apologies to the witnesses, but we're trying to get these bills through. representative brown number two 1959 house bill
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Speaker 52 13:23
1959 representative would you identify yourself for the
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Speaker 55 13:34
record thank you mr chair matt brown district 55. uh senators 1959 is a very simple bill
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Speaker 57 13:43
it's a little bit of a the civil procedure, I'd say modernization. Whenever you get a judgment in civil court in
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Speaker 58 13:52
this state, your judgment's good for 10 years. And at the end of 10 years, when you most likely have not been paid, you have to follow the process called, now we pronounce it sky or facie. I think it's actually pronounced sky ray facius in order to renew that judgment. It's a little bit convoluted. You have to file a writ with the court. You have to serve a copy on the defendant. You have to go then go in and have a hearing. Of course, there's no objection. There's no hearing. You cancel the hearing and then you get your order. It's just a very convoluted process. This bill, if passed, would simplify that process. Most states, I believe, have gotten rid of this entire process. And essentially, it's more like when you renew a mortgage in that you would just simply file a notice in your court case, serve a copy of it on the defendant, and the notice would just say, hey, the judgment's still outstanding. This is how much is owed. Gives the defendant a chance to
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Speaker 57 14:32
come in and object if they have an objection. But it simplifies the process. Be glad to answer any questions y'all may have. Questions from committee?
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 14:40
Hearing none, I don't believe there's anyone here to testify for or against. Would you like to close for your bill? CLOSED. I APPRECIATE A GOOD VOTE, MR. CHAIR. MOTION DO PASS FROM SENATOR McKEE. SECOND FROM SENATOR JOHNSON. ANY DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE, ALL FOR THE MOTION SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE. ALL OPPOSED. MOTION CARRIED. CONGRATULATIONS. REPRESENTATIVE BROWN, NUMBER TWO, YOU HAVE PASSED YOUR BILL. SENATOR DAVIS.
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Speaker 61 15:08
house bill 1984 is that correct yes mr
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 15:15
chair would you identify yourself for the record yes breanne davis state senate district 25 you
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Senator Breanne Davis Unverified 15:22
are recognized to present your bill it's a house bill 1984. so this bill came from speaker evans who had a constituent issue related to the identification of a child sex offender in their community this simply allows designation on a a driver's license that would allow law enforcement to more readily identify level three and level four sex offenders. Several states already do this and we know that level three and four are considered to have high risk of re-offense, typically with a history of repeat sexual offending or strong antisocial, violent, or predatory characteristics and requires community notification. So this would just be a symbol or mark on the driver's license that would help law enforcement more easily identify them. I'm happy to take any questions. Questions from
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Senator Gary Stubblefield Unverified 16:20
committee. Senator Stubblefield, you recognize? Yeah, when a trooper or an officer makes an arrest and they punch it in, doesn't that automatically show that to them, the information you're talking about?
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Senator Breanne Davis Unverified 16:33
I'm not sure. I'm not sure whether it does or
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Senator Gary Stubblefield Unverified 16:38
not in their system. I talked to a trooper just before we left and asked him about it, and he said yes. The minute they hit a button in that car, it verifies whether they've had any previous convictions of child molestation or anything. So they have that already in their system. So I don't know if this bill is just redundant or if it does the same thing. I don't know why.
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Speaker 66 17:03
This came from a trooper, an Arkansas State trooper. I think it just
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Senator Breanne Davis Unverified 17:08
allows them to more easily and quickly identify if there's a sex offender. So some states have it written very large across the top of the driver's license. There's been debate over that in some, you know, different court cases. But this one would, just like you see if you wear contact lenses or different things that you may see on someone's driver's license that other states do, this would simply be some type of mark or symbol letting them know they're level three or level four sex offenders.
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 17:37
Other questions from committee? Hearing none, we have Robert Combs signed up to
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Robert Combs Unverified 18:01
speak against. Yes, we are still under a time limit of two minutes. Good afternoon chairman, vice chairman, members of the committee. My name is Robert Combs and I'm a registered sex offender, level three, high risk. I wanted to explain that when you're stopped by the police, before they make it up to your door, they've already run your license tag, and every license tag that belongs to a registered sex offender is identified in their computer system, not only if it belongs to you, but if you have access to it, a company car, your wife's car, it connects to that register. So they know that before they reach the window. Once they do reach the window, they ask for your registration, proof of insurance, and they ask for your driver's license. When they run the driver's license, any law enforcement agency will come back with if there are any warrants out for your arrest, if you're a registered sex offender, whatever the status is. So for law enforcement, this is not an issue. The only issue is the public humiliation when you go to open a bank account, when you cash a check at Walmart or Kroger's, having something that identifies you as a registered sex offender. It's not helping community safety. It's helping punish or humiliate the people who are on the registry for the rest of their lives. And when it comes to recidivism and the chance of re-offending, I was in this same room last session when the Arkansas Community Corrections said that the recidivism rate was much lower than I even thought it was. Nationally, it's 3.5%. In the state of Arkansas, it's 3% recidivism for someone on the registry. Whether that's a level of 3 or 4,
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Speaker 81 19:42
it's still 3%. If you have any questions,
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Robert Combs Unverified 19:45
I'll be happy to answer your questions.
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 19:50
Questions from committee? Seeing none, thank you for your testimony. Thank you. Senator Davis, you
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Senator Breanne Davis Unverified 20:03
were recognized to close for your bill. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Like I said, this would just have some type of mark, nothing big and bold like several other states do where it says sex offender or something like that at the top. It's just a mark like we have for several other things ON A DRIVER'S LICENSE TO GIVE INDICATION FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 20:21
SOONER. THANK YOU. WILL OF THE COMMITTEE. MOTION TO PASS FROM SENATOR GILMORE, SECOND FROM SENATOR MCKEE. ANY DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE, ALL FOR THE MOTIONS SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED? - Congratulations, Senator Davis, your bill has passed. - Okay, we're at 5:13 and we have to be back in session at 5:15, so we will be back. - We will, we're recessing upon call of the chair, which will probably be upon adjournment. Thank you.
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Unknown speaker 21:47
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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Lindsay Thomas Unverified 1:08:17
I'm calling this meeting to order. Chair sees a quorum. Representative. What bill? House Bill 1975.
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 1:08:47
What did we do with it?
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Unknown speaker 1:09:17
Thank you.
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Senator Terry Rice Unverified 1:09:47
You're recognized for a motion. Mr. Chair, I think Senator Stouffield, I was one of the ones that were opposed with this bill. We got more information, and I would make a motion
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 1:10:04
to pass. Okay. Representative, could you first identify yourself
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Speaker 97 1:10:08
for the record? State Representative Zach Graham, District 5410. Okay.
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 1:10:12
We have a motion from Senator Rice, a second from Senator Deese. NEW SPEAKER: ANY DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE, ALL FOR THE MOTION SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE. MOTION CARRIED. CONGRATULATIONS REPRESENTATIVE. NEW SPEAKER: THANK YOU, CHAIR. THANK YOU, COMMITTEE, FOR YOUR TIME THIS EVENING. NEW SPEAKER: I BELIEVE THE BILL WE ARE ABOUT TO HEAR IS HOUSE BILL 1916. REPRESENTATIVE BENTLEY IS ON HER WAY. Unless someone has something else. I'll stay right here. While we are waiting on Representative Bentley, there are a lot of people signed up to testify. The sensing, this is not just the end of the day, it is the end of the session. And sensing the mood of this committee, if you all have someone in particular that you think we ought to hear, I'd move them to the top of the list. My top of the list is just whoever signed up first because I can see this committee. They may go through and listen to everybody, but I can see them when they get their minds made up, making a motion to vote immediately. So if you all want to get together and decide who you really want to speak and get them at the top of the list, we'll be sure that they get heard, or I'll do what I can until they make a motion. Thank you.
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Unknown speaker 1:13:11
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Representative Bentley, you are up.
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 1:15:11
so representative bentley are we here in house bill 1916 okay would you
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Representative Mary Bentley Unverified 1:15:34
identify yourself for the record thank you chairman committee state representative mary bentley
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 1:15:40
district 54 representative bentley you are recognized to present your bill thank you colleagues house
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Representative Mary Bentley Unverified 1:15:46
bill 1916 is amendment to act 274 that senator stubblefield and i passed with your help in 2023 the purpose of act 274 is to protect minors from medical malpractice this act gives minors and their parents 15 years after the child turns 18 to file a civil lawsuit against a healthcare professional who performs, excuse me, I've been running over here, a gender transition procedure or gender affirming intervention. Gender affirming care is the affirmation of a minor's self-diagnosis of a gender confusion. For decades, healthcare professionals practiced what was called watch and wait when a child had gender confusion. They did not affirm the confusion, they rather acknowledged it and combined it with dissonance-oriented counseling with therapy until the minor got through puberty this treatment watch and wait result in the vast majority of child patients overcoming in the gender confusion when they got through puberty now with gender affirming care excuse me gender affirming care in the other hand results in 92% of the child patients remaining in gender confusion when they get through puberty unfortunately a decade ago ideological activists pressured the psychiatric association to start using gender affirming care instead of the successful watch and wait treatment. And the results for the youth in our nation suffering with gender confusion have been disastrous. Since healthcare professionals began using gender affirming care, including puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones, we have seen a 370% increase in transgender identifying youth. Let me repeat that again. Since healthcare professionals began using gender affirming care and including puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones, we have seen a 370% increase in transgender identifying youth in our nation. Multiple polls across the country show that 80% of Americans oppose what has happened to the youth in our nation with gender ideology and gender affirming care. My hopes for the passage of HB 1916 is that the healthcare professionals will return to what's best to enhance the child's well-being. Decades of research that show most transgender youth struggle with past trauma or underlying mental health issues. Transgender patients are four times as likely to be diagnosed with substance disorder, four times it's likely to be diagnosed with one or more mental disorders, five times more likely to have been diagnosed with a mood disorder or anxiety disorder, ten times more likely to have been diagnosed with obsessive-compulsive disorder, and thirteen times is likely to have diagnosed with PTSD. Given these strong associations with mental illness is necessary to consider whether gender confusion is related to the development of other mental health conditions. Gender confusion may cause or exasperate anxiety and depression symptoms. Mental health conditions may contribute to the development of gender confusion, but regardless it's difficult to imagine any case in which gender confusion enhances a child's well-being. Gender-forming care, including medical interventions, carry a host of known physical risks. For example, cross-sex hormones are associated with a reduced bone density, stunted growth blood clots, and fertility and cancer. Many of the physical changes caused by these treatments are permanent. 98% of the children prescribed puberty blockers subsequently proceed to cross-sex hormones. Puberty blockers cause brain swelling and vision loss and these drugs are also used to castrate sex offenders chemically. These medications have not undergone sound peer-reviewed evaluations for safety or efficacy for causing puberty. There's no evidence basing. There is no evidentiary basis for asserting that the harms they cause are fully reversible. Unfortunately, a large percentage of these minors who start with purity blockers and cross-sex hormones pursue the surgical interventions that scar their bodies forever. Transgender medical interventions should be understood for what they are. Grotesque experiments that stunt and suppress a child's natural development and surgically mutilate their bodies in the service of unscientific fantasies. While the long-term effects of transgender medical interventions on children are unknown, no credible evidence supports the claim that they benefit a child's mental health. Indeed, research on adults has not shown these interventions to improve mental health or to reduce suicidality. Systemic reviews on the effects of puberty blockers do not support claims of improved mental health or reduced suicidality. An alternate and far less risky approach has been termed first due no harm, or first due no harm recognizes the dangers of transgender interventions and cautions providers to pursue exploratory psychotherapy instead and to help gender confused children navigate puberty rather than fear it. The advantages of exploratory psychotherapy over so-called affirmation are strong. I have more to present gentlemen but I'm not I know we're all short on time and short on sale. I just want to say that I'm asking you to put the health and well-being of children in Arkansas first. So stop basing their care and gender ideology and gender affirming care. Let's return Arkansas to a place where child's well-being is put first and adults are not making decisions whether they will ever be able to be parents or not. Recall that absent gender ideology inspired gender affirmation, most gender confused children will naturally desist and thereby avoid proceeding to transgender medical interventions including surgical mutilations. A genuine concern for their well-being should incline us not to want to understand and treat the source of these child's distress. Ten years ago we never heard of treating mental illness by mutilating minors with double mastectomies or removing genital organs. We are allowing adults to take away their ability to ever conceive a child. Gender-affirming care is a first step in that process. HB 1960 simply allows minors and parents a civil cause of action to sue for damages from gender-affirming care up to 15 years after child turns 18. And I just want to quickly I know on the House Florida's kind of related this to a child was suffering from anorexia and a very malnourished and went to the doctor and the doctor looked that child said you know what you really are obese you really do need to get on this weight loss plan let me give this weight loss plan if that weight loss plan doesn't work let me put you on some diet pills if that doesn't work let's do a gastric bypass we would call that severe malpractice and that's exactly what we're doing to our kids here we should not be affirming a child's self diagnosis we should be helping that child to become well like we did for forever before gender-firming care came in onto the scene so again this bill is an amendment to what we did with senator stubblefield in 2023 and I'd be happy to take questions from
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 1:22:16
the committee questions from committee senator Tucker you're recognized thank
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Speaker 125 1:22:22
you mr. chair starting on page one of the bill Representative Bentley.
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Senator Clarke Tucker Unverified 1:22:29
The new language is on lines 27 to 31. Yes, sir. And I want to talk about puberty blockers and cross-sex hormone therapy in a moment. But before we get to that, on lines 27 through 29, it says gender-affirming intervention means an intervention to support a patient's identification with a gender opposite of his or her biological sex, including puberty blockers and cross-sex hormone therapy. So the bill explicitly intends to include anything. First of all, let me ask this. The bill is addressing mental health professionals, correct? Generally. Yes, sir. Okay. So this. Well, the addition is. I mean, the
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Representative Mary Bentley Unverified 1:23:11
original bill had done more, but yes, this bill, 1916, yes. Yes.
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Senator Clarke Tucker Unverified 1:23:16
So this is prohibiting a mental health professional from providing any gender-affirming treatment, whether it's puberty blockers, cross-sex hormone therapy, or not, correct?
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Representative Mary Bentley Unverified 1:23:28
Gender-affirming, yes. We don't want to affirm a minor's self-diagnosis. We want that. Excuse me. I ran over here. We want the psychiatric and mental health to treat the underlying causes for the gender confusion, which they did forever, which resulted in the past of a 75% to 88% success rate and when those children got through puberty, they were no longer suffering gender confusion. So until 10 years ago, when WPATH and those changed things to gender-affirming care, we were having great success rates. I mean, if we had a cancer, our child was suffering from cancer, and we had something that was 88% success rate, and all of a sudden we changed that, and now we're seeing with evidence of a massive increase with 387% increase of transgender-identifying youth in our nation, I think we have an issue, I think we have a problem. And so health care workers even in this state have asked me to address this situation and get back to what we were doing before, which was successful. So we're saying, yes, we want them to mentally treat these children, treat underlying issues like they did in the past and not affirm a minor self-diagnosis of gender confusion. Yes.
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Senator Clarke Tucker Unverified 1:24:36
Okay. I'm not going to interrupt you. That was well more than what I had asked about. But a mental health professional, if this bill passes, would be precluded from addressing their patient with a different pronoun, would they not?
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Representative Mary Bentley Unverified 1:24:53
Are they affirming their self-diagnosis? If they're affirming their self-diagnosis, I would say yes. But again, we're looking at the cause of action. This is a civil lawsuit by damage done to a child. So, you know, at the end of the day, it's a parent or a child brainer lawsuit because
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Senator Clarke Tucker Unverified 1:25:13
they have severe damage, right? So, yes. If we were in court, then I would object to the terminology of affirming a self-diagnosis as assuming a fact, not an evidence. I'm not going to debate that point with you, but just because I'm not debating it doesn't mean I agree with that terminology. But my question very narrowly is, a mental health professional, if this bill passes, would be precluded from addressing their patient by a different name or pronoun than is on their birth certificate, correct? I'm not a lawyer, and I'm here again coming as a
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Representative Mary Bentley Unverified 1:25:44
health care professional, wanting to help the health of our kids in Arkansas. What we're doing is not working. Just like in the past, when all of a sudden we were doing lobectomy on mental health patients, I want us to return to things that are working. So to get into, I'm not a lawyer, I'm not here coming as a lawyer, I'm coming as a health care professional to your judiciary committee. Okay. Representative,
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 1:26:05
can you pull the mic any closer? I can. All
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Representative Mary Bentley Unverified 1:26:11
the microphones of the house under falling apart, so I didn't want
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Senator Clarke Tucker Unverified 1:26:16
to, there we go. Is that better? Yes. Okay. Well, let's talk about the medical aspect then of the bill. We'll talk about puberty blockers and cross-sex hormone therapy. Are there a lot of mental health professionals providing this treatment to youth in Arkansas? I know they're in Northwest Arkansas, yes. Okay. I heard you use the term surgical mutilation in your presentation several times. Do puberty blockers and cross-sex hormone therapy constitute surgical mutilation? No, sir. But patients' surveys
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Representative Mary Bentley Unverified 1:26:46
have shown and studies have shown repeatedly that young people that take those, 98% of them go on to get surgical interventions. That's a pretty high rate. Is that after their 18th birthday? It could be. It could be. It could be before. I'm not looking at the dates. We're just saying those puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones are given when they're a minor before they go through puberty, when they're going through puberty, correct? So that could happen when they're 20. But to me, it's still a direct result. getting cross-sex hormones and puberty blockers that you have a double mastectomy on a healthy young woman that I know has done with past six months here in the state of Arkansas right here in Little Rock so to me that's horrible that we're you know when they when they're given these medications they can no longer be a parent they cannot conceive anymore I mean that to me we're we're allowing an adult to make the decision for a child the child cannot that at point when they're a minor decide where they want to be conceive a child when they're adult they can't there that's why we that's why I don't get tattoos because We don't want them making lifelong decisions, correct? So that child cannot make the decision whether one day they want to conceive a child or not. We're taking that choice from them away when they're prescribed puberty
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Senator Clarke Tucker Unverified 1:27:56
blockers and cross-sex hormones. Are there conditions that puberty blockers are prescribed for other than gender dysphoria? Yes,
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Representative Mary Bentley Unverified 1:28:02
they are, but they're not affected in this bill. Neither is unisex. I know that in the House side they brought up unisex. It's not
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Senator Clarke Tucker Unverified 1:28:12
affected by this bill at all. you've identified a number of risks with puberty blockers do they apply equally to those that are receiving puberty blockers for treatment other than gender dysphoria as they do for gender
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Representative Mary Bentley Unverified 1:28:24
dysphoria they're given a totally different ratio and they're given to enhance the same the sex of that person so no they're not they don't have the same they have been there has been research done because that's been done for a very long time young girls that are having periods early they've been given those for years and the studies on that have not shown the side effects as they have with this medication given
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Senator Clarke Tucker Unverified 1:28:46
for transgender patients so your position is that puberty blockers are medically safe for conditions like starting puberty too early but they're not medically safe for someone who may be transgender i'm not i don't have research right in front
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Representative Mary Bentley Unverified 1:29:00
of but there are times that they're given a very short duration right very short duration so there's a lot of things can bother. I just know that I've looked at multiple studies showing that children that receive puberty blockers and cross-text hormones are vast. That's why they no longer do this in England. Many places have stopped doing because of the bone density, all the different things that are happening in children. You know, in the past, probably wasn't researched as much as it is now. And there is no research to show that those are safe. And I jumped through some of my testimony, right, because we're short on time in this part of the session. So I can go into it deeper if you want me to.
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Senator Clarke Tucker Unverified 1:29:42
So going back to the bill from 23 that this is amending, we're not changing the fact that in a standard medical malpractice case, the plaintiff has to prove medical negligence on the part of the defendant. Correct, correct. And any claim under this bill, you don't have to prove negligence. You just prove that there is no mental state. It's a strict liability claim, is it not? I think if you read, I'm going to pull it up
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Representative Mary Bentley Unverified 1:30:09
and read it exactly. I was reading it earlier, so I think if you look on page two, line one, I read through there. Actually, if a minor is liable to the minor, if the minor is injured, including without limitations, any physical, psychological, emotional, or physiological injury by the gender transition procedure gender affirming intervention or related treatment so we have not changed the exact same as it was when we passed in 2023 right but there's no standard in
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Senator Clarke Tucker Unverified 1:30:42
there that the defendant in this case the mental health professional in the case of the 23 legislation a medical professional there's no indication there's no requirement in the legislation that they had to do anything negligently they just did what they did to a professional standard and they would still be held liable under this bill, correct? I think
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Representative Mary Bentley Unverified 1:31:01
your question is vague to me. Can you get a little more into the
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Senator Clarke Tucker Unverified 1:31:08
details of what you're asking me? I'm sorry? Can you repeat that for me? Yes. Under a standard medical malpractice claim, the plaintiff accuses the defendant of committing professional negligence, meaning they did their work in an unprofessional manner. In this case, a claim brought under either the 23 bill or this one, a plaintiff could successfully recover against the defendant, even if the defendant performed the service professionally. They do not have to, the defendant does not have to perform the service in a negligent manner. They just perform the service, period. They may have done it perfectly, but they would still be liable under this bill, even though they had not been negligent in any manner. is that not the case? I don't agree
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Representative Mary Bentley Unverified 1:31:52
with that at all I think with gender a minor not ever able to conceive a child then they severe damage done to that person things that they're making decisions for them as a minor that they can't make at that time so I think there has been great damage I think the judge and the jury would determine that's not they're going to instantly get a rewarded a case right they're going to go before the judge and the jury and there's going to have to be shown some results but giving gender those gender confused children puberty blockers or cross-sex hormones, there is vast damage. They can never conceive a child. Their sexual life is destroyed. So to me, that's serious damage that's been done to that patient.
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Senator Clarke Tucker Unverified 1:32:29
If you take a puberty blocker, you're incapable of conceiving a child. There are studies
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Representative Mary Bentley Unverified 1:32:33
that show that, yeah, they don't have puberty. There's long-lasting effects. It's all correct. Representative, we're having trouble hearing you again. Yes,
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Speaker 166 1:32:38
I'm sorry, sir. Yes. There's multiple studies to show that. BUT NOT FOR
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Senator Clarke Tucker Unverified 1:32:51
THE CHILDREN WHO TAKE PUBERTY BLOCKERS FOR A DIFFERENT CONDITION?
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Representative Mary Bentley Unverified 1:32:53
IT'S GIVEN A LOWER DOSE IN A SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME FOR DIFFERENT REASONS, SO I'M SORRY. I'M JUST GOING BY THE RESEARCH THAT I'VE SEEN ON THIS, AND I'VE NOT LOOKED AT RESEARCH ON THAT SINCE I WAS IN NURSING SCHOOL A LONG TIME
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Senator Clarke Tucker Unverified 1:33:05
AGO. WHAT'S SOME OF THE RESEARCH ON THE OTHER PART THAT YOU'RE CITING THAT PUBERTY BLOCKERS CAN PREVENT YOU FROM CONCEIVING CHILDREN? EXCUSE ME? You said from the research you've seen, puberty blockers can prevent someone from conceiving children. I'm just curious, what research is that that you're referring to? I'd be happy to send the report to you, a full detailed report for you to read yourself. Okay. Well, I'm being expected to vote on this bill now. Excuse me? I'm being expected to vote on this bill now.
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Representative Mary Bentley Unverified 1:33:32
Well, I've done the research. I've read it. I mean, you're welcome to do it yourself as well, too. But there's multiple studies exactly why they're not giving this at all. In the United Kingdom and many other nations, they've quit doing it all to minors because of the multiple side effects. Thank you,
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Senator Ben Gilmore Unverified 1:33:55
Mr. Chair. Other questions from the committee? Senator Gilmore. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Representative, thank you for being here and taking the questions. Just to follow up on Senator Tucker's question, so you're a health care professional, many years as a professional, is that correct? Yeah, I worked at Children's for over a decade, yes. Right, so is there a standard
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Speaker 174 1:34:14
of care associated with gender-affirming care that you're aware of? Yes, there is a
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Representative Mary Bentley Unverified 1:34:19
standard of care, and that's exactly what I'm addressing with this bill. The standard of care is causing great chaos. At some point, we have to push back on that standard of care. The standard of care was put into place a decade ago by, like I said, ideological activists that pushed them to say, let's not call this gender identity disorder anymore, let's call it gender dysphoria, must start doing gender-affirming care and so they have switched to gender-affirming care and gender-affirming care is reaping havoc across our our nation and across this state and exactly what I'm addressing with this with this bill. Other questions from committee? If I could follow up with that chairman
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Speaker 154 1:34:58
just real quickly. Sure. You know we have
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Representative Mary Bentley Unverified 1:35:02
27 states in this nation have passed bills you know against the medical interventions. We are the first state to look at this. I know Texas has got this bill that they're working at right now at one point at some point somebody has to stand up and say the policy that we're doing is destroying children's lives and that's what's leading to the medical intervention is gender-affirming care and so this bill is to say if you if your body is damaged you're no longer able to conceive children and we have a you can add that to the malpractice that we passed two years ago with Senator Stubblefield and up other
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 1:35:49
questions from committee hearing none of us the people that are here to testify saw that you huddled up do you have somebody in particular you would like to speak first AND LET ME REMIND EVERYBODY ON THE COMMITTEE AND EVERYONE TESTIFYING THAT WE'RE ON THE SAME RULES FROM THIS MORNING, TWO MINUTES EACH.
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Josh Garrett Unverified 1:36:14
MY NAME IS JOSH GARRETT AND I'M A LICENSED PROFESSIONAL COUNSELOR IN CENTRAL ARKANSAS. THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO SPEAK TODAY. WE ARE UNITED IN OUR COMMITMENT TO THE WELL-BEING OF CHILDREN AND FAMILIES IN ARKANSAS. I'm concerned, though, because this bill defines a gender-affirming intervention as an intervention to support a patient's identification with the gender opposite of his or her biological sex. However, the bill never clearly defines intervention. In therapy, the therapist is the primary tool for intervention, which the American Psychological Association defines as any action taken to address a client's issues, which includes listening, displaying empathy, and using silence. Given that any action can be deemed an intervention we need clarity on the bill stipulations. For example, does the bill only apply to licensed mental health professionals in Arkansas? What about qualified behavioral health professionals or others who are not licensed but provide mental health care? Do mental health professionals need to be actively employed in Arkansas or does it also apply to those who are retired? Do the patient and/or professional need to be current residents of Arkansas? Are we liable for using silence, reflection, or clarifying questions when a minor discusses their gender identity? Many people go by another name other than their first name. Would using someone's middle name or nickname be considered a gender-affirming intervention? How do we document two years of treatment for a minor whose preferred gender is inconsistent with their biological sex? Wouldn't we be in violation of this bill simply by documenting their preferred gender and continuing treatment. Furthermore, if we attempt to follow the proposed safe harbor, we risk violating our ethics by discussing puberty blockers and HRT, which are outside our scope of practice. The ambiguity of this bill creates fears of liability which will deter mental health professionals from working with minors altogether, worsening the existing shortage of mental health providers in the state. IF YOUR GOAL IS TO IMPROVE MENTAL HEALTH CARE FOR MINOR ARKANSANS, PLEASE VOTE AGAINST THIS BILL AND WORK WITH THE MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS IN YOUR STATE TO CREATE A BILL THAT BETTER ALIGNS WITH OUR PROFESSION, REFLECTS OUR SCOPE OF PRACTICE, AND ENSUES ETHICAL CARE. THANK YOU. QUESTIONS FROM COMMITTEE? SEN. TUCKER? THANK YOU,
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Senator Clarke Tucker Unverified 1:38:34
MR. CHAIR. IF THIS BILL PASSES, WILL IT PREVENT YOU FROM BEING ABLE TO EFFECTIVELY DO YOUR JOB IN TREATING PEOPLE UNDER THE AGE OF 18 IN ARKANSAS? YES, SIR. THANK
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 1:38:47
YOU. other questions from committee hearing none thank you thank you have y'all selected to be next if you'll identify yourself for the record
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Speaker 182 1:39:03
i am a reverend gary cheater i'm an ordained minister in the united methodist church I'm also a licensed professional counselor and have been in practice for the last 30 years. In those
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Speaker 183 1:39:18
30 years, I've been appointed to the Arkansas Board of Examiners and Counseling by two governors, one Governor Huckabee and one Governor Beebe. I have served on that board that regulates Arkansas counseling law for six years, of those six years, four of them, I was a board chair. I'm also a certified brain injury specialist and a national certified clinical mental health counselor. And so in looking at this bill with lines 27 through 31, if those lines were struck out of this bill, then I could see where it would address malpractice, especially in areas where people are dealing with medications and drugs and treatments from that perspective. In Arkansas, currently no licensed professional counselor has the ability to prescribe medication or treatment for medications. And so when you start talking about puberty blockers, There's not a counselor in Arkansas that's going to be able to do that. And so a lot of the issues, it seems like, that's being addressed is from the medical model or the medical perspective and not so much from what we practice in community counseling. And so if those lines were struck from it, then it would allow the therapist to operate and to serve minors and their parents. In Arkansas, a counselor has to provide an informed consent. In that informed consent, we can identify populations and issues that we do not want to address. In our informed consent, if we're working with children and minors, we don't know if or when an issue of gender dysphoria might show up. We may be working with that adolescent or that child for months, if not years, and then this comes up into the therapy. We've already established a rapport with that client. We've already established rapport with the family. And then as the child progresses in their development, they discuss the concern and questioning their gender identity. At that point, it would be detrimental and harmful to the client for the therapist to say, because of this particular law that's now being considered, we're no longer able to provide you the care that we have been provided for you over the last few years. Also, it would be a mistake to be made that if a therapist is working with a child, just because gender identity may come up in that conversation or in the process of that therapy that we're going to change the way
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Speaker 182 1:41:41
that we do our therapy because we are a blank slate. We put ourselves in a position to hear the child and the parents. You need to find a place to wrap it up. So I would encourage the committee that's too ambiguous and it definitely does not relate, it's harmful to the mental health counselor and to the mental health treatment of the kids here in Arkansas and I would
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Senator Clarke Tucker Unverified 1:42:04
appreciate a no vote. Questions, Senator Tucker? Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to make sure I heard you correctly. Mental health professionals are not providing cross-hormone
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Speaker 183 1:42:12
therapies and puberty blockers in Arkansas. Arkansas law since does not allow a counselor to prescribe any type of medications or to practice outside their scope of practice. This would be practicing outside their scope of practice, which would be an ethical violation, which would cause that therapist to be exposed to lawsuits. And so we have to define our scope of practice whenever we file with our license, with the state licensure board. Scope of practice with the board to state this is what we're going to be doing. With our clients, we have also an informed consent of what we're going to do and what they can expect from us. Thank you.
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Senator Tyler Dees Chair Unverified 1:42:51
Senator Dees, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for your testimony. You mentioned mental health counseling, and at the end you said this would be harmful to the mental health counselors. Could you expound
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Speaker 190 1:43:05
on that? Sure. When you're in a relationship
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Speaker 183 1:43:11
with a client, you have to form that relationship with them to where they feel safe, and they can trust you. What is discussed within that counseling session stays within that session, with exceptions, when you're dealing with a minor that some things have to be shared with a parent and possibly with legal services. Do you believe truth is important in that discussion? Very much so. And to be able to listen to that client, even if you don't quite agree with them, even if you don't know exactly where they're going, you have to be supportive so that they feel safe enough to be open and talk about their feelings and offer their questions and concerns that does
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Senator Tyler Dees Chair Unverified 1:43:52
make sense I do believe truth is the utmost importance in any of those discussions as well and I think I understand your point about building relationship and creating an environment there but I do find it I find it concerning that in your testimony that you're worried about the harmful nature to the mental health counselors in this situation instead of focusing on the mental health issues that these folks are going through. And that's what the most concern comes from on my end. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. If
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Speaker 182 1:44:23
I can address that. The concern with the mental health counselor, the amount of energy and work that they put into listening to a client is
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Speaker 183 1:44:32
exhausting. And so you have to recognize that there is a two-way street there. We have to be protective of the client, but at the same time, it's exhausting for the mental health therapist to be that blank slate, to not offer their opinion or what they think should be done. And so it's exhausting for that mental health professional to remain that blank slate, which allows that client to explore their issues and their concerns.
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 1:45:03
Other questions from committee? Pastor, there seemed to be some confusion. I don't know why there would be, but do you know, I'm not asking you to describe it, but do you know what gender affirming care is? Based off of this law? No, I'm not talking about based off this law. This is a very common term. I know what gender dysphoria is. gender-affirming interventions gender-affirming care was the question I asked because that's yeah I know that's what children has children's has been doing for years that's what's happening nationwide and so do you know what that is not under their definition though okay you don't know what the medical definition of not the medical definition of it okay do you know then as professional a professional counselor do you know what counseling was being provided before gender affirming care I do
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Speaker 182 1:46:14
not other than that a what has been provided historically through counselors is depending upon their therapeutic approach is to provide a safe nurturing inclusive place for them to feel that THAT THEY CAN SHARE THEIR ISSUES AND CONCERNS WITHOUT JUDGMENT AND WITHOUT INTERVENTION AS FAR AS TRYING TO CONVINCE THEM TO GO ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. NEW
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 1:46:39
SPEAKER: OKAY, ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU.
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Senator Clarke Tucker Unverified 1:46:41
OTHER QUESTIONS FROM COMMITTEE? SENATOR TUCKER. NEW SPEAKER: IS GENDER DYSPHORIA THE PROPER TERM OR SHOULD WE USE DIFFERENT TERMINOLOGY?
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Speaker 182 1:46:50
NEW SPEAKER: ACCORDING TO THE DSM V, IT'S GENDER DYSPHORIA. NEW
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 1:46:55
SPEAKER: THANK YOU. questions from committee hearing none thank you pastor who's next when you sit down and turn the mic on please identify yourself for the record
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Tisha Dean Unverified 1:47:14
chairs heavy hello good evening can you hear me we can thank you my name is Tisha Dean. I'm a clinical psychologist practicing in Arkansas. Thank you so much for giving us the time to speak today. I'm going to try to be quick, and I've changed a little bit based on some questions, so bear with me if I hobble along here. I'm a native Arkansan, born and raised in northeast Arkansas, a proud graduate of Wiener High School, a proud graduate of the University of Arkansas and someone who has spent my entire career increasing access to mental health care in the state of Arkansas. So I'm a psychologist and that means I went to college for 10 years. I completed a one-year internship at UAMS and a one-year postdoc training with the Central Arkansas Veterans Health Care System to become a licensed psychologist. Psychologists do not perform surgery or prescribe medication in Arkansas. Gender-affirming care, as we've discussed, is defined medically as medical, social, and behavioral treatments to help people align their gender identity with their physical traits, which includes hormone therapy, surgery, and supportive services. There's many ways that this bill is detrimental to the mental health community, and I think it's important to understand that the mental health community is tied to its patients. If the mental health community is not healthy, then there are no mental health professionals to help support patients. I hope that you've read carefully the letters that were sent to you by psychologists in our state, because I believe, although I believe well-meaning, Representative Bentley uses numbers in her testimony and research that does not well represent the research related to children with gender dysphoria. And if I had the amount of time that Representative Bentley had, I could go into that in more detail. This bill will increase uncertainty and fear in the mental health professional community. And I have worked really closely with the legislative body to improve access to care and to build good relationships. And I hope that we can continue that community that together. You need to find a place to wrap
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Kirsten Sowell Unverified 1:49:37
up. Yeah so the other two things I
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Tisha Dean Unverified 1:49:40
wanted to mention as an increasing liability this is going to increase the cost of being a mental health professional which is going to be detrimental to our state and again we we want to care for patients but we also know that if we don't have mental health professionals in the state then we're not going to have mental health and the very last thing I want to say is that we know that our training community, we train psychologists in the state and that we're having increasing difficulty in recruiting mental health professionals in the state. Questions from committee? Senator Tucker, you're recognized. Thank you,
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 1:50:14
Mr. Chair. You concur with the
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Senator Clarke Tucker Unverified 1:50:18
pastor's testimony that mental health professionals are not providing puberty blockers and cross-sex hormone therapy to teenagers in Arkansas? Yes, that is not part of our training or practice. thank you other questions from
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 1:50:44
committee we keep going back to lines 30 and 31 in the bill while line 29 says about biological sex including without limitation of puberty blockers and cross-sex hormone therapy so the the legislation says that those things are included and without limiting it to being other things so is there a reason that we have an emphasis on those two
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Speaker 207 1:51:24
things? Is that a question for me? For
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Tisha Dean Unverified 1:51:33
you or for excellent? Sorry. I mean I think the reason why is because the definition of gender affirming care is related to changing the physical aspects of a person to match what they say their gender identity is. And so usually what that means is physically changing. So puberty blockers to stop the progression of puberty or surgery. We as mental health professionals do not change the physical state of anyone. We talk with them. We help them to think through what's going on in their lives. We help to identify things that could help them to live healthier, happier lives. Our goal is for people to be healthy and happy. We do not change anybody's physical body. Okay,
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 1:52:25
so that being the case, then lines 30, 31 doesn't apply to you? I don't have that in front of me, I'm sorry. Puberty blockers, the line above says without limitations is puberty blockers and cross-sex hormone therapy. Since you have nothing to do with those two things, then those two lines
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Senator Clarke Tucker Unverified 1:52:47
don't apply to you? - Those are things that we do not do, and that does not apply to
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Tisha Dean Unverified 1:52:53
us. So the difficulty with the bill is that it uses the word gender affirming care
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Senator Clarke Tucker Unverified 1:52:59
in a very broad sense, and it does not define it. It states that these things, but not anything that could be defined as gender
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 1:53:08
affirming care. - So you're a psychologist, trained psychologist, and you have not heard the term gender affirming care? It's not medical? You don't know what it means? Yes, sir. I read
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Tisha Dean Unverified 1:53:24
the definition at the beginning. It's a range of medical, social, and behavioral treatments that help people align their gender identity with their physical traits.
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Lindsay Thomas Unverified 1:53:36
Okay, so you do know what
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 1:53:42
it is? Yes, sir. Okay. So I'm not understanding why there would be confusion about a lack of definition. Well, there's not... It reminds me of the argument between a fetus and a
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Tisha Dean Unverified 1:54:04
baby, or epidermis and skin. This bill, sir, is creating medical malpractice. the ability for medical malpractice for mental health professionals to be sued for conducting gender-affirming care, but it does not define for a mental health professional what gender-affirming care for us is. It's very broad. We know what it is for a medical professional. We don't do what medical professionals do. So adding us into this bill at all does not make sense.
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Senator Clarke Tucker Unverified 1:54:38
All right. Other, Senator Tucker, you recognize? So, given your testimony that I say y'all, I mean your colleagues and those in your profession. Yes, sir. You aren't changing the physical body of anyone, right? No, sir. Yeah. So, but the types of treatment that you are providing are emotional and just conversing back and forth with each other in nature, correct? Yes, sir. And the way that you read this bill is that it would prohibit you just from having those types of conversations with your patients, correct?
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Tisha Dean Unverified 1:55:14
Yes, due to the, broad's not a good word, due to the undefined nature of how this bill defines, and it's not gender-affirming care, it's gender-affirming intervention. There is no gender-affirming intervention in our medical nomenclature. We don't know what that could be anything. That's what our colleague before stated. There's things that could be considered gender-affirming interventions, but that's not defined. I did have a conversation with Representative Bentley about having a definition and modifying or amending the bill, but there wasn't time to do that. So with
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Senator Clarke Tucker Unverified 1:55:55
a gender-affirming intervention, that is very broad. So the problem with a lot of, excuse me, the problem with the lack of definition is not a lack of understanding. It's simply how broad it will be construed, correct?
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Tisha Dean Unverified 1:56:12
Yes. And with it being broadly construed, then us as mental health professionals don't know what we can do with patients, which, again, creates a real stress. And then people will just not do it because they don't want to run afoul of the law. They don't want to get in a position where they could be sued. Right. And
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Senator Clarke Tucker Unverified 1:56:39
generally speaking, do we want there to be less mental health services provided in Arkansas
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Tisha Dean Unverified 1:56:47
or more? No, sir. Arkansas has 73 of our 75 counties are mental health shortage areas.
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Senator Tyler Dees Chair Unverified 1:56:53
All right. Thank you. Thank you. Senator Dease, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Is it hard to get a counseling license
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Senator Clarke Tucker Unverified 1:57:09
in Arkansas? I don't know about a counseling license. It can be difficult to get a clinical psychology license. I mean, if you have all the
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Senator Tyler Dees Chair Unverified 1:57:16
training. Are you a psychologist or counselor? I may have missed that. It's okay. I'm a psychologist. Psychologist. Okay. I know we heard from others that were counselor, mental health counselors. Will you help me understand gender dysphoria is a mental issue, correct? It
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Tisha Dean Unverified 1:57:31
is a diagnosis in the DSM file. Yes. Okay. Will you give me another
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Senator Tyler Dees Chair Unverified 1:57:35
description of that? Is that not a mental issue? It's a mental
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Tisha Dean Unverified 1:57:40
health diagnosis that it's, I don't know what you mean by if it's a mental
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Senator Tyler Dees Chair Unverified 1:57:49
health issue. I just was trying to clarify from your testimony before. You said some of the other descriptions is not what you deal with. It's any surgeries or puberty blockers or cross-sex hormone therapies you don't deal with, but you do deal with the mental health side, and gender dysphoria is a mental health concern or diagnosis, according to your testimony here. And so I think it does concern me. I think that's my biggest fear, is that you say we're not dealing with some of these other areas, but the areas you are dealing with are just as much of a concern. In fact, dealing with the mental health may be even a larger concern. And I think what scares me is if we've got, if it's readily easy in the state of Arkansas to be a mental health counselor or mental health psychiatrist, and this is how we are addressing a mental diagnosis, that concerns me, especially when there's not parents around. I think I heard that maybe in another testimony. And so with our minors, I believe this is just as big of a concern dealing with our mental health issues in this area, especially speaking truth, even if it's not dealing with surgeries. Would you help me understand your opinion of what
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Tisha Dean Unverified 1:59:04
I just said there? Yeah, I certainly can. So to answer your first question, I didn't quite understand what you meant by difficult, right? So it is incredibly difficult in terms of training and the things that we have to go through to get licensed as a mental health professional, be it a social worker or a counselor. Like I said, at the beginning, I went to college for 10 years. I did a one-year internship, a one-year postdoctoral training, and then I had to apply. I had to make sure I met all the criteria. I had to pass a
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Senator Clarke Tucker Unverified 1:59:42
licensing exam I also had to pass an in-person exam. But with all that
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Senator Tyler Dees Chair Unverified 1:59:46
with all those hours and training and all your work in Wiener Arkansas we still don't we still even struggle on understanding if gender
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Tisha Dean Unverified 1:59:56
dysphoria is a mental issue. Now gender dysphoria is a mental health and it's a diagnosis. So it's like saying ADHD is a diagnosis right. It's a mental health condition that we can help with, help people to learn ways to cope better and to have skills to organize themselves better. And then there's medical things you can do with ADHD, right? You can prescribe medications and, you know, do medical things. So with gender dysphoria, that diagnosis is a, So there's multiple parts to gender dysphoria. One is that there's the disconnect or a difference between, and I'm going to say right here before I say this, that I'm not the expert in this area, so I'm going to say this from a psychologist, but I'm not a gender dysphoria expert.
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Senator Tyler Dees Chair Unverified 2:00:49
But I do know enough about it. When we have these interactions with our minors, it gets even more and more confusing, and we don't go back to what's truth. And I understand trying to build relationships with clients, But if it's really hard to describe, especially for the prefrontal lobe that hasn't been developed, this is what concerns me, especially with our
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Tisha Dean Unverified 2:01:12
minors. Yeah, that's understandable. So let me explain what gender dysphoria is. So that is a diagnosis where, so in any medical mental health diagnosis, there are components to it. One component is that you have criteria. So the criteria for that is that there are, there is a biological, physical sex that you see, and then there is gender, which is what somebody is a social construct, what people identify as, as a person. That's kind of how it's identified, but those two things do not match. That is, and that there is distress. So with the mental health diagnosis, the person has come to us with distress related to this issue. So as a psychologist, whenever someone comes to me with distress about everything, I work with that person to determine what is the source of that stress and to help them decide for themselves what their choices are for themselves. Thank you. And so I do not in any way influence anybody to make a decision in a certain way. Not when they have anxiety, not when they have depression. I help them to identify for themselves what is the best thing for their health and well-being for their long term. With children, we work also with their parents. We have consent and assent forms. And we work with people to help to identify what's the best choice. Representative Bentley does talk a whole lot about watch and wait and the fact that 80% of people who are with watch and wait go on to continue with their continue to identify with the their biological sex and that is that is completely true but what she is talking about is a very broad range of people. So any child that comes in and or minor who comes in that says that they're confused, they have a question, they're there, they have any identity issue, right? So adolescents and middle school are identity landmines. And so that is any landmine, any issue that might be related to how someone identifies as maybe a tomboy or maybe, you know, I like ballet and the boys don't like ballet like I do. So yeah, almost all children who come in with those kinds of questions, almost all of them can go on and go with and intend to have their physical appearance continue to look in how we think it should conform to their biological sex a minority about 10 ish percent even less than that um you know what less than one percent um continue to have what we call dysphoria and struggle and um those are the the the patients the kids that continue to we continue to support and help them to make the decisions that are best for them and their families in the long run. In Arkansas, we do not provide medical changes in physical appearance before before the age of 18 and even though the medical the psychological convention and the way that we work with kids is we encourage them to do what's best for them and we do not encourage people to to make changes unless it's what they with lots and lots of help and support
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Speaker 202 2:05:08
and making very sure that that is exactly what they want to do i
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Speaker 59 2:05:15
hope that was helpful other questions from committee
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Lindsay Thomas Unverified 2:05:19
hearing none thank you thank you who have y'all decided would be next hi my name is Lindsay Thomas and I'm a currently licensed and actively practicing clinical
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Speaker 231 2:05:39
psychologist here in Arkansas I'm speaking today in opposition of HB 1916 as it is currently written representative Bentley and I share a common goal to protect vulnerable youth in our state we also agree that therapists should not aggressively encourage youth to take dramatic measures to alter their gender. However, I have serious concerns that the proposed bill will further limit access to mental health care, endanger children throughout Arkansas, and contribute to financial burdens for our taxpayers. As Representative Bentley said, gender diverse people experience higher rates of depression, suicidal ideation, substance use, body dissatisfaction, disordered eating, adverse childhood experiences. These negative outcomes are the result of attempting to conceal their gender due to rejection and discrimination. These outcomes directly lead to a high need for medical and mental health care. Fortunately, there is significant research showing that access to gender-affirming care is associated with decreases in mental illness. To be clear, gender-affirming care can be as simple as a therapist using different pronouns or a different name. Currently, children often wait many months to get mental health care, especially in rural areas. While they wait, children continue to experience symptoms of mental illness. They may try to ease their suffering through self-harm or self-medicate with alcohol, prescription, or illicit drugs. There are financial costs to these concerns. These children may require medical care to address the issues that can arise while waiting to see a therapist. With 65% of children in rural areas enrolled in Medicaid, these statistics also cost taxpayer dollars. HB 1916 proposes that rather than providing evidence-based care, providers should instead watch and wait. This approach will directly increase negative outcomes and their associated costs. With its loose definitions of gender-affirming care opening mental health providers up to litigation, HB 1916 will deter providers from working in Arkansas, increase costs of malpractice insurance, limit access to all mental health care, increase wait times for children to see a therapist, and ultimately cost taxpayer dollars. Therefore, I ask you to consider the impact that this bill would have on all children in our state not just transgender children. Please oppose HB 1916.
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Kirsten Sowell Unverified 2:07:50
Questions from committee? Hearing none, thank you. Next. You'll identify yourself for the record.
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Representative Nicole Clowney Unverified 2:08:08
My name is Kirsten Sowell. I'm a licensed clinical social worker and a therapist. I've been practicing for 17 years. If we attempt to follow the proposed safe harbor in this bill, we risk violating our ethics by discussing puberty blockers, which we have already explained is outside of our scope of practice. One of the most troubling parts of this bill is how vaguely it defines gender-affirming intervention. Without clear definitions, even widely accepted evidence-based techniques like asking clients what something means to them or using reflective listening could be misinterpreted as influencing a young person's gender identity. These are fundamental tools in therapy. They help clients build self-awareness and mental wellness. They are not about steering anyone towards a specific identity. Yet under H.B. 1916, if a minor grows up and later claims harm, these standard techniques could be used against the therapist in court, no matter how ethical or appropriate the care was. Because the bill doesn't clarify whether someone must be currently licensed or actively working as a provider, even the sponsor of this bill, who has shared that she was a former nurse, might be not exempt from its reach. By the bill's own vague logic, her public advocacy and authorship of legislation about gender identity could be seen as influencing youth. Could that be seen as an intervention? We don't know, because the bill doesn't tell us. If the bill's own author could be at risk, how are therapists supposed to navigate it safely? We need laws that protect ethical, evidence-based care, not a fear-driven policy that endangers clinicians and confuses clients this bill causes harm not safety questions from committee
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Nikki Bok Unverified 2:10:07
hearing none thank you thank you who's next please identify yourself for the record my name is nikki boke thank you for hearing
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Speaker 237 2:10:28
me today I'm a registered nurse of 13 years, I've had the privilege of working closely alongside transgender youth and their families. I'm here today to oppose 1916, a bill that will add on to an already harmful law and to help providers and mental health professionals that they should not affirm a patient's gender identity despite the fact that this is best practice. As a nurse with relevant experience, what I would like to convey about gender affirming care is that despite how the language in this bill leads us to believe this care has always been thoughtful cautious and individualized for each patient per standards of care it has always prioritized mental health therapy and counseling oftentimes these patients are only seeking a safe and supportive environment to which many of them have gone on to call life-saving and the care of which this bill threatens as a medical professional a big concern is that the statements regarding diagnoses and statistics in this bill and verbalized during these committee hearings are not cited by evidence-based research. This isn't in my notes but I would also like to mention that I personally have given puberty blockers to cisgender children for early puberty and it is the exact same medication dosage and frequency. All major medical groups continue to support gender-affirming care. The same medical groups that we trust with frameworks for care across all other disciplines. Gender affirming care is not banned in the European countries cited in this bill. The current Swedish guidelines state when caring for young people with gender dysphoria is important to affirm the patient's gender identity. One measure that has a significant impact on the individual is for health staff to ask for the person's preferred name and pronouns and then use them both in direct contact with the person and in
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Nikki Bok Unverified 2:12:24
documentation. Studies show that affirming care greatly reduces depression and suicidal thoughts in transgender youth and that legislation targeting the community like
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Speaker 237 2:12:31
this increases those concerns as well as harassment and bullying. As a healthcare professional I've seen these studies corroborated firsthand with patient reports and ER admissions. Please don't deny the ability of those of us who want to serve this community to do so. Please vote no. Thank you. Questions from committee? Is the last name Boak? Yes. Yes. Ms. Boak, what would you
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 2:13:05
increase the, what would you identify as the reason for a 377 percent increase in transgender identifying youth since the beginning of I think having
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Speaker 237 2:13:26
the language I think having the language the words to put can make a big difference so I think one just visibility I don't I think that visibility and feeling safe public opinion. All these things make a big difference in whether a person feels safe enough to come out. So
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Lindsay Thomas Unverified 2:13:49
you think the numbers were always there?
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Speaker 237 2:13:54
I think there may have been more that I would have identified as having some kind of gender variation had they had that language
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 2:14:04
to begin with. Sure. And also being a trained professional, these numbers actually vary greatly with Arkansas Ohio being much lower than California. Scientific reason
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Speaker 237 2:14:16
for that? There's a lot of discussion about that. I would assume probably safety concerns. Like I said in my speech there there is a direct correlation in the harassment and bullying by their peers. There is a direct correlation when legislation like this is being heard so sure a component of that is the safety and and they what they're experiencing experiencing at school. Since we're
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 2:14:49
talking about direct correlations I really wasn't gonna bring this up but since we're talking about that there's only one been one exhaustive study and your medical professional unlocked the counselors. The Sweden, and I believe it's, I believe it's 153 young people. It was actually all the, the young people that had been through their medical interventions. It could have been 163, but it's in those numbers. The, we know, and contrary to what was said before, and I wasn't going to argue, American Association of Child Psychiatry said in writing in their text, I don't know if you call it a manual or what you call it, I don't know the correct definition. that gender dysphoria occurred mainly in males, mainly before or around two years old. And nobody knows why. Nobody knew why then. Nobody knows why now. And that it causes a great deal of distress for that child. It causes a great deal of distress for those parents. And the, but as the representative pointed out, over 70% to almost 90% between the ages of 18 and 25 decide that they're not a girl. Now that's, this explosion is more female than male. It doesn't occur at two. It occurs at adolescence. The, and, but in all cases, like I said, it was 70 to 90% that decided in adulthood that they weren't the opposite sex. Now, Sweden, who was a leader, not to their credit, but it gives us a lot to know, with this study of the 153, 100% who receive gender-affirming care, and the rest of them cannot, but you can, and doctors do here in Arkansas, provide puberty blockers and cross-sex hormone therapy. 153 went on to have surgery as young adults. That seems to be distressing, that 70 to 90 percent, by everybody's numbers, decide that they, as they come into a young adult, that they're not really that opposite sex. But with this treatment, 100 percent are making choices that are really hard to change. Are you aware of that Sweden study?
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Speaker 237 2:18:19
Because like I said, it's the only exhaustive study. So I mentioned that in Sweden, gender-affirming care is still not banned. But I do want to mention that you said a couple different things. So the statistics provided are actually regarding whether or not they remain in that identity after the onset of puberty. and that's quite different than saying they remain after age 18 to 20's you're you know because that's I just want to be clear about
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 2:18:55
that um and but the question is what we're doing at puberty because like I said very distressing uh I can understand that part and my heart actually goes out to folks and to parents dealing with it, but when you've got 70 to 90 percent that decide on their own, that again from 18 to 25, is is gender-affirming care having the same? It certainly didn't in Sweden, but but here in the U.S. is gender-affirming care having a different outcome? Is it having a better outcome as far as and or is it a better outcome for people to continue? People who would have decided that they weren't transgender, is it a better outcome for people to continue to believe that
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Speaker 237 2:19:57
they are? I'm not sure it's up to us to decide what's better for a person's life and the legislation really the concern is more about the effect it will have on their ability to receive mental health care for kids all in this all the kids in the state of Arkansas to receive mental health care and for us to be able to affirm their gender I could sit here and have a conversation all about the medication aspect but that's not really what's the concern here okay
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Senator Terry Rice Unverified 2:20:29
any other questions from committee mr. chair I'll just say we're going back in session at 7:15 I can do an immediate consideration I'd rather allow representative Bentley to close and and do it then thank you we
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Lindsay Thomas Unverified 2:20:41
will is it proper to have a motion to end testimony because we're going to do
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Senator Terry Rice Unverified 2:20:51
something official I make a motion I appreciate the testimony we've had several I make a motion in testimony allow reps in Bentley because I've got to take a vote and go back in session
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 2:21:01
we had a second from center Johnson the any discussion hearing none all for the motion signify by saying I all opposed motion carried thank you for your testimony thank you all the testified and all of you that couldn't represent a Bentley due to my question at the end you've got about a minute because 7:15 rolls around well you got less than a minute gentlemen
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Representative Mary Bentley Unverified 2:21:30
I appreciate your time and I just will quickly close dendric infusion is not a new thing it's been around for a very long time we've had a very successful treatment watch and wait and different things that were really working ten years ago things changed and the results have been catastrophic I I want us to return to what works for Arkansas. I'll quickly say Arkansas was the first state to pass the Heartbeat Protection Act. We were the first state to pass the SAFE Act. We were the first to do a lot of things and I want us to be the first to take care of children in our state and get them back to what really works and take care of our children and gender affirming care and get them back to what will really work and get good mental health in our state. So with that, I close and I appreciate a good vote. - Will of committee? Motion to pass from Senator Johnson,
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Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified 2:22:13
second from Senator McKee. discussion? There's no time for discussion at 7:15. I apologize. All for the motions signify by saying aye. Aye. All opposed? No. Motion carried. Congratulations representative you have passed your bill. And we are adjourned.
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Unknown speaker 2:22:44
Thank you. Thank you.
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Agenda

REGULAR AGENDA

CALL TO ORDER

-320:27

1975 Gramlich TO CREATE THE CHILD CONTENT CREATION PROTECTION ACT.

1:08:50

HB1916 Bentley TO AMEND THE PROTECTING MINORS FROM MEDICAL MALPRACTICE ACT OF 2023; AND TO INCLUDE GENDER-AFFIRMING INTERVENTIONS AS A RIGHT OF ACTION FOR MEDICAL MALPRACTICE.

1:10:42

HB1984 Davis TO CREATE A DESIGNATION FOR A REGISTERED SEX OFFENDER ON A DRIVER'S LICENSE OR IDENTIFICATION CARD.

16:30

HB1959 M. Brown TO ABOLISH THE USE OF A WRIT OF SCIRE FACIAS AS THE MEANS OF REVIVING AN OUTSTANDING JUDGMENT; TO ALLOW A JUDGMENT TO BE REVIVED BY NOTICE; AND TO AMEND THE LAW CONCERNING THE FEES TO BE CHARGED BY CLERKS OF THE CIRCUIT COURTS.

14:09

HB1967 K. Brown TO AMEND THE LAW CONCERNING THE UNLAWFUL DISTRIBUTION OF SEXUAL IMAGES OR RECORDINGS.

8:41

SB 644 Mckee TO AMEND THE LAW CONCERNING THE EXECUTION OF A WRIT OF POSSESSION; AND TO ALLOW FOR THE REMOVAL OF A MANUFACTURED HOME OR MOBILE HOME FROM PROPERTY THAT IS SUBJECT TO A WRIT OF POSSESSION.

6:55

PRODUCT OR VAPOR PRODUCT BY A MINOR.

Recess

21:10

Reconvene a

1:08:39

Speakers

Senator Alan Clark Chair Unverified
76 segments
Speaker 13
2 segments
Speaker 15
2 segments
Speaker 17
4 segments
Speaker 21
1 segment
Representative Matt Brown Unverified
9 segments
Senator Ben Gilmore Unverified
4 segments
Speaker 42
1 segment
Senator Terry Rice Unverified
4 segments
Speaker 52
1 segment
Speaker 55
1 segment
Speaker 57
2 segments
Speaker 58
2 segments
Speaker 61
1 segment
Senator Breanne Davis Unverified
7 segments
Senator Gary Stubblefield Unverified
2 segments
Speaker 66
1 segment
Robert Combs Unverified
5 segments
Speaker 81
1 segment
Lindsay Thomas Unverified
6 segments
Speaker 97
1 segment
Representative Mary Bentley Unverified
62 segments
Speaker 125
1 segment
Senator Clarke Tucker Unverified
40 segments
Speaker 166
1 segment
Speaker 174
1 segment
Speaker 154
1 segment
Josh Garrett Unverified
6 segments
Speaker 182
7 segments
Speaker 183
10 segments
Senator Tyler Dees Chair Unverified
16 segments
Speaker 190
1 segment
Tisha Dean Unverified
33 segments
Kirsten Sowell Unverified
2 segments
Speaker 207
1 segment
Speaker 202
1 segment
Speaker 59
1 segment
Speaker 231
4 segments
Representative Nicole Clowney Unverified
4 segments
Nikki Bok Unverified
3 segments
Speaker 237
13 segments