ALC-Occupational Licensing Review Subcommittee
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Unknown speaker
0:00
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
2:00
They're here. We're all here. All right. Colleagues, if everyone wants to settle in, we'll go ahead and get started for the Occupational Licensing Subcommittee. We'll go ahead and call the subcommittee to order. We're going to jump right on then to this. Our first report is going to be from the Arkansas Department of Education. And so it looks like we're supposed to have Dr. Sutherland and Dr. Benton. If y'all would take the hot seats for us and introduce yourselves.
And this will be item C1 in your packet, colleagues. And when y'all get settled in, if you would just please introduce yourself to the committee, and then you can proceed with any
Speaker 6
2:51
opening comments. Dr. Matthew Sutherland, Director of Educator Preparation and Licensure. Courtney Solis-Ford,
Speaker 8
2:55
Chief of Staff, Department of Education. Grab your,
Speaker 9
3:02
there you go. Dr. Brandy Benton, Assistant Commissioner, Educator Effectiveness and Licensure.
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
3:05
All right, good afternoon, thank you for being here. Any opening comments before we get into the report? So
Speaker 6
3:14
I just want to say that, you know, we've tried to make obtaining a teaching license much more flexible and provide a lot more ease in that process. Um, as far as renewal is concerned, we've tried to make the PD hours more streamlined. There's only about eight hours that now have to occur. Um, and then also thinking about, um, just our, our process for actually going through
and approving the license. Um, it is a, it's supposed to be a six week process, but in actuality, most of them happen within the span
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
3:47
of a week. All right. Um, how is, uh, do y'all have a separate fund balance to, to handle this and how is, how is that handled
Speaker 6
3:57
with the licensing fees so the funding comes from the licensing fees so that's that goes to our PLSB account and that funding is used for both salaries and for AILS which is our Arkansas educator licensing system okay
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
4:09
and looks like seven hundred and sixty thousand dollars was collected and you spent about seven hundred thousand of it so seems to be fairly balanced what how are we doing as far as um getting um teachers license as far as do we still have shortages where do we see those shortages kind of tell us what the state of the field is these days yeah we're
Speaker 6
4:33
still well actually we have our new teacher licensure plan which was developed um recently and so we've been working with teachers on a daily basis trying to get them on those
licensure plans and get them to licensure those plans last three years but that's at the discretion of the district and so the district actually gets to decide do they want to continue to apply for those plans at the end of three years they have
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
5:02
to be to a provisional license okay all right all right colleagues any questions on this okay saying none pretty painless this morning or this afternoon thank you all for being here without objection we'll consider this port reviewed and we'll go on to C2 thank you Arkansas Department of Labor Licensing HVAC
and once again once you all get settled
in there if you would introduce yourselves for the committee this is going
Speaker 25
5:43
to be exhibit c2 colleagues lacy kirchner counsel for the department
Speaker 26
5:47
of labor and licensing lindsay moore director of code enforcement department
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
5:51
of labor and licensing all right thank you all for being here any
Speaker 28
5:57
opening comments for the committee we just want to point out that with the passing of act 746 of 2025 that the department took an initiative to
reduced licensing and we eliminated the class c license for hvac and we expanded the scope of work that class and class b license holders
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
6:18
can do okay um and it looks like um the you had uh nine hundred thousand dollars in revenues operating expenses of 769 thousand dollars um how are we doing as far as fund balance um in that licensing we're
Speaker 28
6:32
holding steady at this point we just went to a digital licensing platform that we're hopeful that can give us some additional savings
from postage specialty paper and the labor of putting it out. Okay. And then
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
6:45
overall, how are we doing with this field and the state? So we
have a good supply of HVAC technicians. Are there areas of shortages or areas where we need to promote the field? We're working on
Speaker 28
7:01
promoting. There's always a need. It's a growing industry. The trade is growing. The trade is changing with modern technology, so there's an ongoing need for the technicians.
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
7:12
Okay, sounds good. Okay, colleagues, any questions on this one? Okay, all
right, seeing none, without objection, we'll consider this reviewed. And one last
one. The State Plant Board. and again gentlemen once
you get seated if you would please introduce yourself to the committee
and then you can proceed with
Speaker 40
7:47
any opening comments corey seats department of
Speaker 42
7:54
agriculture director of the state plant board mark stone works all department of agriculture okay today department of agriculture presents for review for occupational licenses and they're related to nurseries nurserymen and limited nurserymen who are the individuals that grow and sell nursery stock nursery dealers who buy nursery stock for resale and landscape contractors which install nursery stock as an occupation licenses are governed by arkansas code section 221 101 at
sec also known as the arkansas nursery fraud act and the part 50 of two code of arkansas rules subparts three and four i do want to point out in review for today i did notice two things that need to be mentioned for correction on page two for the number of individuals regulated in nursery dealers level one through three the number that was put in in error was actually the total number
of licenses that number should be 448 and in addition the amount that is received with regards to these fees was left off and that
Speaker 45
9:03
is on average about 140 000 a year what's your current fund
Speaker 42
9:14
do not carry a balance uh all of that is
Speaker 45
9:21
expended uh by costs of the program to include uh inspectors and just the operating costs okay
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
9:28
um and uh how's the industry doing overall as far as kind of the same question i asked the last group uh
Speaker 42
9:40
what's the i think that uh overall it's it's pretty good with the increasing numbers that You see, and it's not a large number, but you do see more and more ability to buy plants and shrubs at your local big box store. But the numbers that
Speaker 40
9:58
we're licensing seems to hold fairly steady.
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
10:01
Okay, colleagues, any questions this morning on this one? Uh-oh, we're all lighting up. Looks like
you all won the jackpot this morning. So, Representative Ray, you are going to be first. Thank
Representative David Ray
Unverified
10:15
you, Mr. Chairman. I'm over here. gentlemen so when it is the can you just give me a quick summary of what
what is the difference bitch i'm looking at this for the first time the difference between a nursery
Speaker 42
10:33
dealer and a nursery man nursery dealers as a general rule are selling for retail uh items that they did not grow
themselves the nursery men are the ones that actually grow the uh the plants the shrubs that sort of thing okay
Representative David Ray
Unverified
10:48
and so are these are these voluntary are these voluntary licenses are they like certifications or do you have to have it as a precondition to sell these plants it's required by the statute okay so and i guess this is probably not your area but i'm just i'm just curious what is the what is the what's the policy justification for requiring a license to sell
Speaker 42
11:13
shrubs and plants it and Mr. Stoll may be able to answer better than I can but it is I guess to give a broad statement along with the licensing comes inspections of the facilities that grow and sell these plants and so those inspections ensure that the consumers are getting viable plants that are free from disease and pest and that sort of thing does he
Representative David Ray
Unverified
11:42
is there a board or agency that
Speaker 42
11:44
goes out and inspects nurseries uh they are inspectors from
Representative David Ray
Unverified
11:52
the department of agriculture so they go out and inspect to nurse nurseries that's what you're saying okay you've made a reference to like um big box stores you know like you'd go to lowe's or home depot or something and buy a shrub to plant in your garden um are they required to have a license to sell those yes they'd be a nursery dealer they're a nursery dealer okay all right thank you oh last question
sorry um do you have any idea how many other states require a license to sell plants i believe they all do they all do okay all right well thank you for answering those questions sir okay uh representative uh
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
12:35
gonzalez you're next thank you mr chair i think uh
Speaker 61
12:39
representative ray covered the majority of it you know i was looking on the back page question number one would consumers be at risk of substantial harm if arkansas did not have this occupational
authorization and your answer was no so i i too kind of wonder why does this exist i think the correct the more
Speaker 42
13:00
precise answer would be that uh that would not allow for the inspections that i was speaking of a few moments ago and we we could have more artfully answered that question i'll admit and there's
Speaker 61
13:12
there's no fees or anything involved with this license i don't have to pay a
Speaker 42
13:18
feed yes there are fees uh the fees are both a license fee and then an inspection fee and that
fee increases depending on the size of uh for example nursery that you have or the size of siding area that you have
Speaker 45
13:32
as a as a grower as a nursery so did y'all just completely ignore this questionnaire other
Speaker 61
13:39
than the first question because number five says how much does the occupational entity collect annually in fees or what are the annual expenses and it says not applicable yeah it was missed yes sir well it looks like every one of them are missed so thank you is that something that you have
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
13:59
on hand that you can tell us what those numbers are or if not
can you email those to staff so we can get those out to
Speaker 42
14:07
the committee absolutely and actually i did try to go back and update when
Speaker 45
14:10
i realized the error and it was already locked so but i will make sure that happens yes sir
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
14:41
Okay. Committee, I'm actually going to throw this question out to you. We're going to continue with our discussion, but since y'all have mentioned that there are some corrections that need to be made to this report, there's two ways we can proceed. One is we can go ahead and take the report as is, or we can have you go ahead and submit those corrections so that we've got the correct information, and then maybe have you come back on Thursday when we meet and re-review it at that time just to get those corrections in place, okay?
But we're going to go ahead and continue with the questions. Representative Beck, you are going
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
15:23
to be next, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm just going to look at like the nurseryman levels, one through four, and the differences in the, I guess the amount, I guess that's, is that the fee? Yes, sir. Okay. So my question would be is, is the differences related to different things that they're entitled to do, or is it just purely the size of the nursery?
Speaker 71
15:50
For the nurseryman? Yes. It's the size. Like level one would be contained grower stock in less than three acres. And then field stock less than ten acres, where level two would increase in size of that each level. So it would give the inspectors more to inspect. So
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
16:08
I might need some clarity on something you said earlier. I might have just caught it wrong. So it's the fees that I would pay, and then you said that there was also an inspection fee?
they paid something the inspection fee is
Speaker 45
16:24
included in that number so if i have a larger
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
16:27
one then that i guess i'm kind of round about trying to get to the looks like the fees go quite a bit higher but part of that would be the additional cost related to inspection fees yes sir so and i'm just going to throw this out there because we don't have the numbers but uh the the answer to Representative Meeks or Chairman Meeks
question as to how your fund balances were and all that. He said, well, we use that for just, you kind of stumbled around a little bit there and he said, well, operating expenses. So what percentage, and I guess this will be ready for us when we get the numbers, but what percentage are you running over? Because after you collect all your fees, is there actually a difference of, you know, 20% of your revenue is still there or whatever?
And if so, it just, you know, you understand the kind of sense? Well, we use it up for operating fees. So it would almost mean like you would either be right on the line where you would not have enough money to function correctly, which I would say we need to make sure we get you plenty of money to function correctly, or the other side would say, well, we're kind of spending what we get. And that would indicate we're just maybe not making the best use of taxpayer dollars or maybe not taxpayer dollars, but the fees that the people are paying.
So hopefully that will be cleared up when you give us some numbers as to how, you know, for lack of a better term, what surplus you have and exactly how that's being expended. Does that make sense?
Yes, sir. All right, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. okay uh representative purier you're next yes sir
Representative Chad Puryear
Unverified
18:19
to not need a license or i heard i hear you say level one is just anything under three acres if you're selling
Speaker 83
18:29
trees or shrubs woody plants you would need a license for that and there's not like a
Representative Chad Puryear
Unverified
18:34
like let's say you sell 25 trees you still have to have a lot even if it's a very small scale yes operation you know because three acres is quite an operation really so all right thank you all right uh senator sullivan you're next yeah
Senator Dan Sullivan
Unverified
18:53
thank you over here guys so this is kind of new to me so we're licensing these folks and i think i may have heard you say it how big a dealer do
you have to be before you have a license or required to have a license in other words can people go to a yard sale or are you know some roadside stand and buy shrubs do they need a license yes if you're that'd probably be
Speaker 58
19:17
a could you pull the mic a little closer
Speaker 71
19:22
to you please I'm sorry depending on where they got the plants at if they grow them themselves they'd need a limited nursery if it's a woody plant like a shrub or a tree and limited nurserymen would just be
selling to the public. They can't sell to a dealer or another grower. So then a nurseryman can sell to another grower or a dealer, but it's plants they grow. So I guess if people want to sell
Senator Dan Sullivan
Unverified
19:49
this at a yard sale or other kinds of things, it makes a difference where they get their product? Well, it does. And if it's not a
Speaker 93
19:59
woody plant, they can sell them without a license.
Speaker 71
20:04
say that again now if it's not a woody plant like a tree or shrub oh okay you know
Senator Dan Sullivan
Unverified
20:12
they can sell them without a license okay and i saw this law was written in 2019 and we haven't updated it much since then and i'm just wondering and i'll talk to you offline i'm just wondering how we go from 2019 until you know 100 years and we haven't updated it and how it compares to what other states are requiring but i don't not for now um i'll talk to you later about that thank you mr chair
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
20:38
representative richmond you're next thank you mr chair
Representative Marcus E. Richmond
Unverified
20:43
i i know that you can you probably seen online where there's trees and things that are sold i mean you can even find it on facebook and and i'm not sure where that those trees and things will come from usually some type of fruit tree is there any effort to regulate those guys as well because I would think that would if we're concerned about some kind of risk and I would think that this would be part of the deal that
we're concerned about some kind of disease coming in here which is one of the reasons why you would be licensed that there would be some kind of effort to you know to monitor those kind of sales
Speaker 58
21:26
as well is there any we try if we see the ad
Speaker 71
21:30
i mean because that goes way beyond plants that goes with everything trying to regulate you know internet but yes we do try if we see that to
contact that person find out what they're selling and let them know you need to have a license or you don't need a license follow up Mr.
Representative Marcus E. Richmond
Unverified
21:54
Chair fire away do you have any any numbers or anything how many people you've contacted and and reached out to and said you know you're selling in the state of Arkansas you need to
Speaker 99
22:03
have some type of license here do you have any any any figures
Speaker 93
22:08
that would indicate that no I do not have any figures we have contacted though some of the online like
Speaker 71
22:14
amazon and ebay you know places that do sell and put our prohibited plant list out there so they're supposedly blocking those plants
Speaker 101
22:22
to be sold in arkansas okay thank you thank you mr chair hey representative perrier your
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
22:27
backup i think that marcus so you know i was i
Representative Chad Puryear
Unverified
22:32
was going to simplify that because i was having trouble following him so i can i can't grow 10 apple trees on my farm and sell those 10 apple trees but i can get online and order them out of the
northern state and and that's okay without a license so i'd have to have a license to sell 10 apple trees on my farm but an out-of-state company could deliver those same 10 apple trees without a license is that correct well
Speaker 71
23:01
hopefully they're licensed if they're selling but we don't know if they're licensed i leave that up to the state that they're located in okay all right thank you and if you are purchasing i would make sure that they are
Representative Chad Puryear
Unverified
23:11
licensed just to make sure it's a good product. Follow up. Has there been an instance where we have imposed these regulations on somebody just trying to make some extra money? You know what I'm saying? Like, has, has, you know, we say
we regulate this. Is there an instance where this has, you know, shut down a very small operation that was working without a license? Do we have any track record of that? No, usually if we find one, we give
Speaker 101
23:35
them the opportunity to get a license okay and bring them into the program all right thank you so i think
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
23:46
colleagues have been going down so if i've got a shrub in my front yard right and i don't want it there anymore and i dig it up my
neighbor sees me digging it up and says hey i'd like to put that shrub in my front yard and they want to give me 20 bucks for it that would actually be illegal unless i got a license not that i expect y'all to to you know jump in on that situation but technically that would that would be illegal in arkansas is that correct yeah yes sir okay um well i won't be back but maybe this might be something our my colleagues could look into for next session um uh representative back have you back up sir so you you bring
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
24:29
up another question then it's the going back to the
10 apple trees coming in from out of state versus someone here. So when you contact someone out of state and they say, let's say Oklahoma, so Oklahoma, let's say, doesn't have nursery laws, do they tell you that they are in compliance with their state's nursery laws and so therefore they don't have to pay attention to you? Well,
Speaker 93
24:59
no, what they would do, they would need a state FIDO to ship plants into our state.
Speaker 101
25:07
So if you buy them, they would be accompanied by a state FIDO certificate. All right. And that would be issued by Oklahoma Department of Agriculture. And they would have to do the inspection on those products, and we would receive a copy of
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
25:25
the state FIDO. So I guess then Sutton says that it
would be the state that the person was growing the apple trees from and whatever they say is okay is what's okay for shipping into Arkansas.
Speaker 58
25:42
Correct? Yeah, if it meets that state FIDO, we accept
Speaker 101
25:49
that. But the other state, not Arkansas. Yeah, if they're selling from that state shipping into Arkansas, it's a pretty general form that all states accept. Okay. And we'd give them a list. If there's any requirements for a product, they would have to meet those on that state FIDO. All right. Thank
Speaker 66
26:04
you very much. Okay. Colleagues, any other questions? Okay. Okay. Seeing none.
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
26:13
So, gentlemen, if we hold this over until Thursday, is that something you can work up those actual numbers, get it to staff by then, uh we can finalize the report on that day is that something y'all could uh make happen in the next couple days
for us absolutely all right so uh well without it is that we're good okay so uh without objection um colleagues what
i'd like to do is we'll hold this over till um thursday's meeting till we get those actual numbers we'll get them plugged into the report and then that way what
we're going to file will be the actual actual numbers from your staff um so with that gentlemen And thank you for being here this afternoon and answering all of our questions. Colleagues, our meeting on Thursday will be in here at 1.30 p.m. And seeing no other business, we are adjourned.
Agenda
A. Call to Order
B. Comments by the Co-Chairs
C. Review of Reports from Occupational Authorization Entities:
D. Other Business
E. Adjournment
Documents
Speakers
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
Speaker 6
Speaker 8
Speaker 9
Speaker 25
Speaker 26
Speaker 28
Speaker 40
Speaker 42
Speaker 45
Speaker 5
Representative David Ray
Unverified
Speaker 61
Representative Rick Beck
Unverified
Speaker 71
Speaker 77
Representative Chad Puryear
Unverified
Speaker 83
Senator Dan Sullivan
Unverified
Speaker 58
Speaker 93
Representative Marcus E. Richmond
Unverified
Speaker 99
Speaker 101
Speaker 108
Speaker 66