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ALC-Occupational Licensing Review Subcommittee

September 22, 2025 ·1:00 PM ·Room A, MAC ·27:12
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Unknown speaker 0:00
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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Representative Stephen Meeks Unverified 2:00
They're here. We're all here. All right. Colleagues, if everyone wants to settle in, we'll go ahead and get started for the Occupational Licensing Subcommittee. We'll go ahead and call the subcommittee to order. We're going to jump right on then to this. Our first report is going to be from the Arkansas Department of Education. And so it looks like we're supposed to have Dr. Sutherland and Dr. Benton. If y'all would take the hot seats for us and introduce yourselves. And this will be item C1 in your packet, colleagues. And when y'all get settled in, if you would just please introduce yourself to the committee, and then you can proceed with any
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Speaker 6 2:51
opening comments. Dr. Matthew Sutherland, Director of Educator Preparation and Licensure. Courtney Solis-Ford,
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Speaker 8 2:55
Chief of Staff, Department of Education. Grab your,
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Speaker 9 3:02
there you go. Dr. Brandy Benton, Assistant Commissioner, Educator Effectiveness and Licensure.
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Representative Stephen Meeks Unverified 3:05
All right, good afternoon, thank you for being here. Any opening comments before we get into the report? So
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Speaker 6 3:14
I just want to say that, you know, we've tried to make obtaining a teaching license much more flexible and provide a lot more ease in that process. Um, as far as renewal is concerned, we've tried to make the PD hours more streamlined. There's only about eight hours that now have to occur. Um, and then also thinking about, um, just our, our process for actually going through and approving the license. Um, it is a, it's supposed to be a six week process, but in actuality, most of them happen within the span
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Representative Stephen Meeks Unverified 3:47
of a week. All right. Um, how is, uh, do y'all have a separate fund balance to, to handle this and how is, how is that handled
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Speaker 6 3:57
with the licensing fees so the funding comes from the licensing fees so that's that goes to our PLSB account and that funding is used for both salaries and for AILS which is our Arkansas educator licensing system okay
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Representative Stephen Meeks Unverified 4:09
and looks like seven hundred and sixty thousand dollars was collected and you spent about seven hundred thousand of it so seems to be fairly balanced what how are we doing as far as um getting um teachers license as far as do we still have shortages where do we see those shortages kind of tell us what the state of the field is these days yeah we're
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Speaker 6 4:33
still well actually we have our new teacher licensure plan which was developed um recently and so we've been working with teachers on a daily basis trying to get them on those licensure plans and get them to licensure those plans last three years but that's at the discretion of the district and so the district actually gets to decide do they want to continue to apply for those plans at the end of three years they have
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Representative Stephen Meeks Unverified 5:02
to be to a provisional license okay all right all right colleagues any questions on this okay saying none pretty painless this morning or this afternoon thank you all for being here without objection we'll consider this port reviewed and we'll go on to C2 thank you Arkansas Department of Labor Licensing HVAC and once again once you all get settled in there if you would introduce yourselves for the committee this is going
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Speaker 25 5:43
to be exhibit c2 colleagues lacy kirchner counsel for the department
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Speaker 26 5:47
of labor and licensing lindsay moore director of code enforcement department
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Representative Stephen Meeks Unverified 5:51
of labor and licensing all right thank you all for being here any
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Speaker 28 5:57
opening comments for the committee we just want to point out that with the passing of act 746 of 2025 that the department took an initiative to reduced licensing and we eliminated the class c license for hvac and we expanded the scope of work that class and class b license holders
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Representative Stephen Meeks Unverified 6:18
can do okay um and it looks like um the you had uh nine hundred thousand dollars in revenues operating expenses of 769 thousand dollars um how are we doing as far as fund balance um in that licensing we're
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Speaker 28 6:32
holding steady at this point we just went to a digital licensing platform that we're hopeful that can give us some additional savings from postage specialty paper and the labor of putting it out. Okay. And then
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Representative Stephen Meeks Unverified 6:45
overall, how are we doing with this field and the state? So we have a good supply of HVAC technicians. Are there areas of shortages or areas where we need to promote the field? We're working on
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Speaker 28 7:01
promoting. There's always a need. It's a growing industry. The trade is growing. The trade is changing with modern technology, so there's an ongoing need for the technicians.
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Representative Stephen Meeks Unverified 7:12
Okay, sounds good. Okay, colleagues, any questions on this one? Okay, all right, seeing none, without objection, we'll consider this reviewed. And one last one. The State Plant Board. and again gentlemen once you get seated if you would please introduce yourself to the committee and then you can proceed with
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Speaker 40 7:47
any opening comments corey seats department of
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Speaker 42 7:54
agriculture director of the state plant board mark stone works all department of agriculture okay today department of agriculture presents for review for occupational licenses and they're related to nurseries nurserymen and limited nurserymen who are the individuals that grow and sell nursery stock nursery dealers who buy nursery stock for resale and landscape contractors which install nursery stock as an occupation licenses are governed by arkansas code section 221 101 at sec also known as the arkansas nursery fraud act and the part 50 of two code of arkansas rules subparts three and four i do want to point out in review for today i did notice two things that need to be mentioned for correction on page two for the number of individuals regulated in nursery dealers level one through three the number that was put in in error was actually the total number of licenses that number should be 448 and in addition the amount that is received with regards to these fees was left off and that
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Speaker 45 9:03
is on average about 140 000 a year what's your current fund
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Speaker 5 9:11
balance for regulating this we we
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Speaker 42 9:14
do not carry a balance uh all of that is
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Speaker 45 9:21
expended uh by costs of the program to include uh inspectors and just the operating costs okay
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Representative Stephen Meeks Unverified 9:28
um and uh how's the industry doing overall as far as kind of the same question i asked the last group uh
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Speaker 42 9:40
what's the i think that uh overall it's it's pretty good with the increasing numbers that You see, and it's not a large number, but you do see more and more ability to buy plants and shrubs at your local big box store. But the numbers that
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Speaker 40 9:58
we're licensing seems to hold fairly steady.
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Representative Stephen Meeks Unverified 10:01
Okay, colleagues, any questions this morning on this one? Uh-oh, we're all lighting up. Looks like you all won the jackpot this morning. So, Representative Ray, you are going to be first. Thank
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Representative David Ray Unverified 10:15
you, Mr. Chairman. I'm over here. gentlemen so when it is the can you just give me a quick summary of what what is the difference bitch i'm looking at this for the first time the difference between a nursery
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Speaker 42 10:33
dealer and a nursery man nursery dealers as a general rule are selling for retail uh items that they did not grow themselves the nursery men are the ones that actually grow the uh the plants the shrubs that sort of thing okay
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Representative David Ray Unverified 10:48
and so are these are these voluntary are these voluntary licenses are they like certifications or do you have to have it as a precondition to sell these plants it's required by the statute okay so and i guess this is probably not your area but i'm just i'm just curious what is the what is the what's the policy justification for requiring a license to sell
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Speaker 42 11:13
shrubs and plants it and Mr. Stoll may be able to answer better than I can but it is I guess to give a broad statement along with the licensing comes inspections of the facilities that grow and sell these plants and so those inspections ensure that the consumers are getting viable plants that are free from disease and pest and that sort of thing does he
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Representative David Ray Unverified 11:42
is there a board or agency that
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Speaker 42 11:44
goes out and inspects nurseries uh they are inspectors from
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Representative David Ray Unverified 11:52
the department of agriculture so they go out and inspect to nurse nurseries that's what you're saying okay you've made a reference to like um big box stores you know like you'd go to lowe's or home depot or something and buy a shrub to plant in your garden um are they required to have a license to sell those yes they'd be a nursery dealer they're a nursery dealer okay all right thank you oh last question sorry um do you have any idea how many other states require a license to sell plants i believe they all do they all do okay all right well thank you for answering those questions sir okay uh representative uh
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Representative Stephen Meeks Unverified 12:35
gonzalez you're next thank you mr chair i think uh
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Speaker 61 12:39
representative ray covered the majority of it you know i was looking on the back page question number one would consumers be at risk of substantial harm if arkansas did not have this occupational authorization and your answer was no so i i too kind of wonder why does this exist i think the correct the more
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Speaker 42 13:00
precise answer would be that uh that would not allow for the inspections that i was speaking of a few moments ago and we we could have more artfully answered that question i'll admit and there's
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Speaker 61 13:12
there's no fees or anything involved with this license i don't have to pay a
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Speaker 42 13:18
feed yes there are fees uh the fees are both a license fee and then an inspection fee and that fee increases depending on the size of uh for example nursery that you have or the size of siding area that you have
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Speaker 45 13:32
as a as a grower as a nursery so did y'all just completely ignore this questionnaire other
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Speaker 61 13:39
than the first question because number five says how much does the occupational entity collect annually in fees or what are the annual expenses and it says not applicable yeah it was missed yes sir well it looks like every one of them are missed so thank you is that something that you have
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Representative Stephen Meeks Unverified 13:59
on hand that you can tell us what those numbers are or if not can you email those to staff so we can get those out to
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Speaker 42 14:07
the committee absolutely and actually i did try to go back and update when
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Speaker 45 14:10
i realized the error and it was already locked so but i will make sure that happens yes sir
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Representative Stephen Meeks Unverified 14:41
Okay. Committee, I'm actually going to throw this question out to you. We're going to continue with our discussion, but since y'all have mentioned that there are some corrections that need to be made to this report, there's two ways we can proceed. One is we can go ahead and take the report as is, or we can have you go ahead and submit those corrections so that we've got the correct information, and then maybe have you come back on Thursday when we meet and re-review it at that time just to get those corrections in place, okay? But we're going to go ahead and continue with the questions. Representative Beck, you are going
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Representative Rick Beck Unverified 15:23
to be next, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm just going to look at like the nurseryman levels, one through four, and the differences in the, I guess the amount, I guess that's, is that the fee? Yes, sir. Okay. So my question would be is, is the differences related to different things that they're entitled to do, or is it just purely the size of the nursery?
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Speaker 71 15:50
For the nurseryman? Yes. It's the size. Like level one would be contained grower stock in less than three acres. And then field stock less than ten acres, where level two would increase in size of that each level. So it would give the inspectors more to inspect. So
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Representative Rick Beck Unverified 16:08
I might need some clarity on something you said earlier. I might have just caught it wrong. So it's the fees that I would pay, and then you said that there was also an inspection fee? they paid something the inspection fee is
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Speaker 45 16:24
included in that number so if i have a larger
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Representative Rick Beck Unverified 16:27
one then that i guess i'm kind of round about trying to get to the looks like the fees go quite a bit higher but part of that would be the additional cost related to inspection fees yes sir so and i'm just going to throw this out there because we don't have the numbers but uh the the answer to Representative Meeks or Chairman Meeks question as to how your fund balances were and all that. He said, well, we use that for just, you kind of stumbled around a little bit there and he said, well, operating expenses. So what percentage, and I guess this will be ready for us when we get the numbers, but what percentage are you running over? Because after you collect all your fees, is there actually a difference of, you know, 20% of your revenue is still there or whatever? And if so, it just, you know, you understand the kind of sense? Well, we use it up for operating fees. So it would almost mean like you would either be right on the line where you would not have enough money to function correctly, which I would say we need to make sure we get you plenty of money to function correctly, or the other side would say, well, we're kind of spending what we get. And that would indicate we're just maybe not making the best use of taxpayer dollars or maybe not taxpayer dollars, but the fees that the people are paying. So hopefully that will be cleared up when you give us some numbers as to how, you know, for lack of a better term, what surplus you have and exactly how that's being expended. Does that make sense? Yes, sir. All right, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. okay uh representative purier you're next yes sir
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Speaker 77 18:16
so is there a is there a threshold
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Representative Chad Puryear Unverified 18:19
to not need a license or i heard i hear you say level one is just anything under three acres if you're selling
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Speaker 83 18:29
trees or shrubs woody plants you would need a license for that and there's not like a
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Representative Chad Puryear Unverified 18:34
like let's say you sell 25 trees you still have to have a lot even if it's a very small scale yes operation you know because three acres is quite an operation really so all right thank you all right uh senator sullivan you're next yeah
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Senator Dan Sullivan Unverified 18:53
thank you over here guys so this is kind of new to me so we're licensing these folks and i think i may have heard you say it how big a dealer do you have to be before you have a license or required to have a license in other words can people go to a yard sale or are you know some roadside stand and buy shrubs do they need a license yes if you're that'd probably be
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Speaker 58 19:17
a could you pull the mic a little closer
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Speaker 71 19:22
to you please I'm sorry depending on where they got the plants at if they grow them themselves they'd need a limited nursery if it's a woody plant like a shrub or a tree and limited nurserymen would just be selling to the public. They can't sell to a dealer or another grower. So then a nurseryman can sell to another grower or a dealer, but it's plants they grow. So I guess if people want to sell
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Senator Dan Sullivan Unverified 19:49
this at a yard sale or other kinds of things, it makes a difference where they get their product? Well, it does. And if it's not a
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Speaker 93 19:59
woody plant, they can sell them without a license.
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Speaker 71 20:04
say that again now if it's not a woody plant like a tree or shrub oh okay you know
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Senator Dan Sullivan Unverified 20:12
they can sell them without a license okay and i saw this law was written in 2019 and we haven't updated it much since then and i'm just wondering and i'll talk to you offline i'm just wondering how we go from 2019 until you know 100 years and we haven't updated it and how it compares to what other states are requiring but i don't not for now um i'll talk to you later about that thank you mr chair
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Representative Stephen Meeks Unverified 20:38
representative richmond you're next thank you mr chair
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Representative Marcus E. Richmond Unverified 20:43
i i know that you can you probably seen online where there's trees and things that are sold i mean you can even find it on facebook and and i'm not sure where that those trees and things will come from usually some type of fruit tree is there any effort to regulate those guys as well because I would think that would if we're concerned about some kind of risk and I would think that this would be part of the deal that we're concerned about some kind of disease coming in here which is one of the reasons why you would be licensed that there would be some kind of effort to you know to monitor those kind of sales
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Speaker 58 21:26
as well is there any we try if we see the ad
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Speaker 71 21:30
i mean because that goes way beyond plants that goes with everything trying to regulate you know internet but yes we do try if we see that to contact that person find out what they're selling and let them know you need to have a license or you don't need a license follow up Mr.
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Representative Marcus E. Richmond Unverified 21:54
Chair fire away do you have any any numbers or anything how many people you've contacted and and reached out to and said you know you're selling in the state of Arkansas you need to
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Speaker 99 22:03
have some type of license here do you have any any any figures
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Speaker 93 22:08
that would indicate that no I do not have any figures we have contacted though some of the online like
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Speaker 71 22:14
amazon and ebay you know places that do sell and put our prohibited plant list out there so they're supposedly blocking those plants
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Speaker 101 22:22
to be sold in arkansas okay thank you thank you mr chair hey representative perrier your
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Representative Stephen Meeks Unverified 22:27
backup i think that marcus so you know i was i
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Representative Chad Puryear Unverified 22:32
was going to simplify that because i was having trouble following him so i can i can't grow 10 apple trees on my farm and sell those 10 apple trees but i can get online and order them out of the northern state and and that's okay without a license so i'd have to have a license to sell 10 apple trees on my farm but an out-of-state company could deliver those same 10 apple trees without a license is that correct well
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Speaker 71 23:01
hopefully they're licensed if they're selling but we don't know if they're licensed i leave that up to the state that they're located in okay all right thank you and if you are purchasing i would make sure that they are
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Representative Chad Puryear Unverified 23:11
licensed just to make sure it's a good product. Follow up. Has there been an instance where we have imposed these regulations on somebody just trying to make some extra money? You know what I'm saying? Like, has, has, you know, we say we regulate this. Is there an instance where this has, you know, shut down a very small operation that was working without a license? Do we have any track record of that? No, usually if we find one, we give
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Speaker 101 23:35
them the opportunity to get a license okay and bring them into the program all right thank you so i think
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Speaker 108 23:41
kind of the rabbit hole some of my
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Representative Stephen Meeks Unverified 23:46
colleagues have been going down so if i've got a shrub in my front yard right and i don't want it there anymore and i dig it up my neighbor sees me digging it up and says hey i'd like to put that shrub in my front yard and they want to give me 20 bucks for it that would actually be illegal unless i got a license not that i expect y'all to to you know jump in on that situation but technically that would that would be illegal in arkansas is that correct yeah yes sir okay um well i won't be back but maybe this might be something our my colleagues could look into for next session um uh representative back have you back up sir so you you bring
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Representative Rick Beck Unverified 24:29
up another question then it's the going back to the 10 apple trees coming in from out of state versus someone here. So when you contact someone out of state and they say, let's say Oklahoma, so Oklahoma, let's say, doesn't have nursery laws, do they tell you that they are in compliance with their state's nursery laws and so therefore they don't have to pay attention to you? Well,
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Speaker 93 24:59
no, what they would do, they would need a state FIDO to ship plants into our state.
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Speaker 101 25:07
So if you buy them, they would be accompanied by a state FIDO certificate. All right. And that would be issued by Oklahoma Department of Agriculture. And they would have to do the inspection on those products, and we would receive a copy of
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Representative Rick Beck Unverified 25:25
the state FIDO. So I guess then Sutton says that it would be the state that the person was growing the apple trees from and whatever they say is okay is what's okay for shipping into Arkansas.
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Speaker 58 25:42
Correct? Yeah, if it meets that state FIDO, we accept
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Speaker 101 25:49
that. But the other state, not Arkansas. Yeah, if they're selling from that state shipping into Arkansas, it's a pretty general form that all states accept. Okay. And we'd give them a list. If there's any requirements for a product, they would have to meet those on that state FIDO. All right. Thank
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Speaker 66 26:04
you very much. Okay. Colleagues, any other questions? Okay. Okay. Seeing none.
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Representative Stephen Meeks Unverified 26:13
So, gentlemen, if we hold this over until Thursday, is that something you can work up those actual numbers, get it to staff by then, uh we can finalize the report on that day is that something y'all could uh make happen in the next couple days for us absolutely all right so uh well without it is that we're good okay so uh without objection um colleagues what i'd like to do is we'll hold this over till um thursday's meeting till we get those actual numbers we'll get them plugged into the report and then that way what we're going to file will be the actual actual numbers from your staff um so with that gentlemen And thank you for being here this afternoon and answering all of our questions. Colleagues, our meeting on Thursday will be in here at 1.30 p.m. And seeing no other business, we are adjourned.
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Agenda

A. Call to Order

2:13

B. Comments by the Co-Chairs

2:14

C. Review of Reports from Occupational Authorization Entities:

2:19

D. Other Business

26:57

E. Adjournment

27:03

Speakers

Representative Stephen Meeks Unverified
33 segments
Speaker 6
6 segments
Speaker 8
1 segment
Speaker 9
1 segment
Speaker 25
1 segment
Speaker 26
1 segment
Speaker 28
5 segments
Speaker 40
2 segments
Speaker 42
13 segments
Speaker 45
5 segments
Speaker 5
1 segment
Representative David Ray Unverified
6 segments
Speaker 61
4 segments
Representative Rick Beck Unverified
12 segments
Speaker 71
8 segments
Speaker 77
1 segment
Representative Chad Puryear Unverified
6 segments
Speaker 83
1 segment
Senator Dan Sullivan Unverified
4 segments
Speaker 58
3 segments
Speaker 93
3 segments
Representative Marcus E. Richmond Unverified
3 segments
Speaker 99
1 segment
Speaker 101
4 segments
Speaker 108
1 segment
Speaker 66
1 segment