Joint Budget Committee - Pre-Fiscal Session Budget Hearings

We're gonna get started. There's been some questions of. The members of what we're gonna do the next 2 weeks we have a sheet in front of you given going kind of go over the outline of what we'll do for the next 2 weeks on the agencies as they come up transaction you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman this is a a brief synopsis of the budget hearings in the fiscal session it's a handout on your desk the title is fiscal session and fiscal session budget hearings. Before I start that I just want to point out of the background of this in 2010 was the first fiscal session and fiscal sessions are every even number year regular sessions every odd number year the fiscal sessions are limited to 30 days they can be extended one time up to 15 more days fiscal sessions are designed just to addressed appropriation bills appropriation bills only. In the regular session obviously we do appropriation bills and substitute station. However substance legislation can be considered in a fiscal session if identical resolutions are filed and approved in both the house and Senate identical resolution in the Senate identical resolution in the house with a 2 thirds vote and that has to be done on the first day of the fiscal session. For example if someone wanted to make an adjustment to income tax collections that would be a substantive bill in required and will require identical resolutions to be passed in both the house and Senate on the very first day of the fiscal session. A bill or staff will draft these identical resolutions for any members and they are confidential until they're made public so that's the backdrop to the fiscal session now getting into the hand that we have. Under budget hearings. What we're doing today prior to a fiscal session budget hearings consist of the big 6 and that makes a 97 percent of general revenues that are distributed as you can see in the handout there's a schedule in front of you and I already had Tuesday today at 9:00 we got a presentation of the governor's executive balance budget for fiscal year 23 those are all the bills were going to be considering during this fiscal session unless we have supplementals for the current year but mostly it's going to be 23 appropriation bills would start July one twenty twenty two in in June thirty twenty twenty three And then you can see when the other departments are scheduled Wednesday and Thursday and then next week Tuesday and Wednesday and next week Thursday's a contingency day if needed if we don't get to something or additional information is requested so forth. During these budget presentations JBC members you always hear summary of the agency request and you can make any changements or adjustments through a motion so when you hear when the. In the institutions or the department's presentations are made if there's something that you you want to change all you have to do is make a motion we can staff can help you with the motion Wendy's back there and Marty and Jill are here to help with those motions and then that motion if adopted by the Committee which requires a majority vote will be put into the appropriation bill. So these recommendations from these hearings determine what changes if any are made to those appropriation bills that are introduced in the 2022 fiscal session and that starts Monday February 14 all those appropriation bills once they are introduced go to Joint Budget and then the Joint Budget Committee considers those appropriation bills. Briefly about the fiscal session. As I said it starts February 14 appropriation bills like I said are referred to the Joint Budget Committee for their consideration. They said a joint budget until they get a do pass or do pass as amended or or whatever the committee chooses to do during the fiscal session any appropriation can bill can be amended by any member of the General Assembly not just by the Joint Budget Committee we have what is called a member's day which is usually Thursday and then the chairs may open it up to every day. At their call where any member of the General Assembly can present an amendment to any bill any joint budget bill so when a member wants to amend a bill bill our staff if you come to staff we can go over all the options available for that legislator we may need to place a hold on that appropriation bill so that it doesn't get out of joint budget before the legislature per the legislator has a chance to present his or her amendment. This is confidential Intel obviously the amendment is presented the whole list is public but the purpose of the whole list is confidential. And then lastly during the fiscal session when appropriation when amending appropriation bills bill our staff will meet with the legislature to legislator to determine what he or she wants to draft draft the amendment accordingly will coordinate with the legislator when it'll be placed on an agenda for consideration and again this is all confidential and kill that is made public. Once that during session once that item amendment is placed on the agenda the legislator sponsoring the amendment will present his or her request to the Joint Budget Committee for its or it's appropriate subcommittee for consideration that requires a majority vote. If the amendment is adopted in here The Amendment is then goes up to the house or Senate is placed on a budget calendar to be considered by the house and Senate. Mr chairman that is a brief overview of what we're doing and I'm happy to try to answer any questions members have any questions for Kevin. All right Sir seeing none will get started. Of first officer committee would get the the one is going to be the higher education of Dr Markham and doctor fuller you all will come up. I believe it's Mr fuller I think I gave your doctor before your time. I apologize demented solcher. You're recognized yourself you start off with a statement. Okay thank you good afternoon shares members committee I'm Maria Markham director of the division of higher education and I enjoyed with assistant director Nick fuller there are 2 requests that I will present today the first item is the budget request for institutions of higher education these recommendations for our colleges and universities include the funds indicated by the productivity funding formula as well as the educational excellence trust fund and workforce 2000 revenues. Recommendations for non formula units include a 2.5 percent increase as indicated by the happy index plus request for additional funds by the entities to support needed program improvements in addition to the recommendations I've included a 2 percent appropriation only increase for formula institutions to allow for an up with upward fluctuation of ETF revenues or any other state funding adjustments that may occur during the budget.. period State wide productivity increased for a recommendation for an additional $8000000 in new G. R. to higher education individual institutional funding recommendations very both positively and negatively depending upon outcomes at each school. You'll notice that the executive recommendation exceeds the higher ed Board recommendation for several entities essay you Arkansas tech and you AFS receive an additional of executive recommendation based on low per FTE funding as compared to other universities this increase was based on an analysis of her at the funding at peer institutions the base increase an executive right brings the universities in closer alignment with their peers and of course I'm these yes glee of support any additional funds for these institutions. The executive recommendation also includes increases for forestry program at UA Monticello the criminal justice institute and the child abuse rape and domestic violence center at UAMS and again I support the expansion of those programs and the increase in their funding so I'm gonna pause there for questions. Members you have any questions. Seeing none continue on okay the next item to consider other personnel change request for authorized positions those are detailed an agenda item due to I will only comment that all institutions except for you a bet you 88 bill had net 0 increases they may have traded out a few positions but they have no growth to their authorized positions. We also requested transition certain position titles from classified to non classified as listed in agenda item due to these positions are difficult to fill based on the low entry rate required by the class and compact this transition will allow institutions to set salaries for these positions based on market forces in their region up to the line item maximum and as a reminder we provide no line item funding for positions in higher education so those salaries are set based on the funds available at that institution so that concludes my presentation and I have welcome any questions you might have only those items. We've got Senator Davis. Although just second forget started. You'll have given you will talk about the 2 first yes Sir Mr we'll get to questions yes Sir Mr chairman we are on item D. 2 a this is a letter from the department of higher education this a formal request to make personnel changes. These are personnel requested changes that result in a net increase of 77 positions. As you can see on the next 2 pages you can see which institutions are requesting the changes and at the very bottom of each spreadsheet for institution shows you the net increase or decrease for that institution. Mr chairman Alexei if if this letter is adopted by the Committee the changes for the 8 institutions will be made in their fiscal 23 bill prior to being introduced and then that introduce a bill will be referred to joint budget committee for their consideration during the fiscal session. Any questions. All right if you'll get back in the queue. Were you sitting US senator Davis is the okay. Me make sure I got the right number. Senator Malcolm you're recognized the additional positions for universe of Arkansas Fayetteville 77 or 80 positions correct yes that's presidential funding for those positions is being requested there is no additional funding requested for those positions that those are just be authorized so that the institution should they have revenue available can fill those positions. And thank you. I don't know who is in seat. 18. You're recognized. Proceed further questioning about personnel. You're adding your adding 80 new positions. To the faculty at or not the faculty with graduate assistants and then at the university. And so that's AS IT in addition to the 39000 that you already have. Yes so the net increase for any of those positions of that 30 9012 years or older that have not been fill the vacancy. Of I would have to research that for you I don't know that we have that information here. Is there in and that is something we are looking at to bring for their regular session and while we're doing a full analysis of all of the campuses for the positions that are 2 years and older to look at reducing some of those vacant positions that have been out there and not in the the total of 39000 position that's across all of the institutions may not just Fayetteville FOR money follows Mr chairman go ahead what I have once the enrollment at the federal what was one that was in Rome and now and I have the number somewhere but less and Roman now compared to the 2 years ago. We have a versus 2 years C. Fite mill. With the total with the universe Arkansas like come the table also. Other current enrollment is just over 30300 students and that's an unduplicated headcount that individual people 2 years ago they were at about 30400 students. The same roughly the same when it in the end of the position. Yeah it's very likely that they're going to surrender. Positions as well as that's the key there's the key words or render we have a we didn't hear that and then the presentation yeah I think that I think that Assistant Director fuller's correct we're kind of in the middle of that study to figure out which positions can be eliminated and that study has concluded so that'll be a regular session asked to reduce those Mr Herman or we're going. He per minute ask questions about the 3 at the at the appropriate time. We're not there yet. We will okay thank you thank you Mr chairman thank you madam secretary. All right of I've got a question on the University of Arkansas yes on the. Graduate assistant positions they jumped up 40 from 165 to. 205 what does that consist of is a get back to where they were at 1 time that seems like a pretty big jump in graduate assistant it's pretty significant I would have to defer to someone from the University of Arkansas to explain why that number is so large if anyone see it looks like there's a bunch of people here to talk to. One. They're all. We're all rose more chairs down there we go. Rollout spread out. He. Go ahead identify yourselves to the table Mr chairman Randy National University of Arkansas it will. Debbie McLeod associate vice chancellor for human resources Batesville. Good afternoon Charles Robinson in from chancellor a bill. I am borderline on the vice chancellor for finance and administration at the university of Arkansas Fayetteville thank you for being here of. Question on the graduate assistants. Yes Sir what we're requesting 40 to address our student needs the last time we requested graduate assistants was in the 20152017 PS are when we requested 10 we do have a need for additional ones to me are our research goals that we are trying to achieve and also to increase some teaching and teaching support activities are enrollment increased 5 percent overall in our freshman enrollment increased 28 percent this year so we do have needs for additional graduate assistants to not only provide teaching and teaching support but also research support to university sponsored research and then there's some additional duties for administrative support for student programs what is the average graduate assistant. Because the University of Arkansas the the minimum stipend for a 9 month graduate assistant is $11250 per semester the minimum stipend for 12 months is from what we're requesting is 15000 okay so that's 15 what you're requesting yes okay we got some questions of seats 61. Senator Hammer. You're recognized afternoon all of. The study that's going on that's going to determine whether or not you likely surrender the positions can you talk about that a second and are we getting the cart before the horse by giving you the additional positions that you're requesting before that study is complete actually Sir the 80 is a net increase we were requesting 110 positions and giving up 30 the hundred 10 positions that we were requesting are all based on academic or student support research campus safety and the 30 that we are giving up there is mainly in the administrative area as some outdated lab support or health care technician positions we are not able to fill because of the salaries associated with it. Okay and. I just wanna clarify the enrollment numbers because that it seems like a bit of information given before you sat down would indicate that it was flat but what I just heard you say indicated a pretty significant jump in enrollment at the university could you clarify that please yes Sir these figures are far more office of institutional research our fall 2021 enrollment was 20 9000 68 students and our fall 2020 enrollment was 20 7000 562 but the biggest increase was in our freshman enrollment where it was like 28 percent so we need to think about I had on how we're going to meet those students needs for the next few years is a party or justification for the request for the additional positions yes yes Sir okay and with regards to the and I forgot to phrase that apprenticeship for internship. What areas are those going to be assigned to specifically or do you have that list as to where the they're gonna be spread out across the system as a whole the governor you A. M. S. or where for for graduate assistants yes Sir yes ma'am they are all dedicated to the university of Arkansas Fayetteville we are we are allocating 3 of to R. I. Q. our research efforts and then the rest of them will be allocated across campus based on the all right thank you thank Mr Mr got a question for the Director at appropriate time up on the queue okay thank you. All right Senator Hill. You're recognized Sir thank you Mister chair based on the figures all throughout this will go to number students that you currently health and the. Faculty position that you currently have a put it 27 students per per per faculty member. That's in my causing like an awful low number to me. Well ideally we would like to have 19 students to 1 faculty member 191 yes Sir. And to make sure that there's good student success okay thank you. Senator Elliot you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair I think maybe somewhere in there I I surmised an answer to my question with all the the discussion but I just wanna be sure about something I remember some time ago particularly Mr mass now only we have a really big initiative on student success and so what I'm just wondering about is we talk about you know these assistance to what extent are we wrapping that up or in some way maybe going the opposite direction in this whole swap and all that we're doing how is that how does that affect students success because I know that was that can really be a big issue dependent on how students are coming to college these days is not the same as what many of us were become a college I would think that would be for the exacerbated in this time of covid so if you just give me some thoughts about that I would appreciate. Thank you senator Elliott in and thanks to the chairs and the and the committee for an opportunity to address you today this success is a very important issue on our campus and and we worked in a variety of ways to enhance primarily our retention rates for you retention and our 6 year graduation rates in the last 5 years we've had significant success and both of those numbers increases of that you can see and that's that's an indication of success is not the total sure indication because you want students to continue to develop holistically have opportunities for internships opportunities to a really learn in a both curricular and co curricular away we are in that just at the point where by the open a new student success building which will have us services that support all students regardless of where they are to help them develop even further into being more because as long as we have any student at Leeds university for any reason there's more that we can do more that we can do in terms of their academic development in terms of meeting that resource challenges that they might have to the best of our ability that we think that we know that we have to hire more faculty to address our freshman and we did that this semester what I've large freshman class we we hired faculty members because we knew they were dealing with our most precious commodity these new freshmen coming on board after a year of covid they needed some really professional attention but graduate students also play a role in that and we we like to put more senior graduate students with our freshman students and and and have others working as research is until they get to a point where we're comfortable that their they can handle and manage a classroom we do training for them as well so we we see a connection between our gray. Add to it and faculty request and our student success initiative we are working to make it you know more seamless over time but we know that these graduate students will contribute to our total success but they're they're also part of that success story because we want them you just because you're a grad student means stop any student issues and we want to help them and better support them as they're trying to you know we reach their goals and and be successful as well what I really do appreciate of the you're looking at this in a seamless synergistic way as opposed to something here something there and hope something jails yes Sir I do appreciate that bye and thank you for your response thank you. Ladyman you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair of my question these graduate assistance center and you mentioned research. So it is it true that the the research efforts are not directly related to the number of students I mean these maybe research agreements that you get from outside entities that would require time that's not directly related to the number of students is that correct. Stroustrup over here senator skews me yes Sir yes Sir and no Sir that makes by so we do if you take this 2014 we've done about $600000000 worth of research and when we get a research project we have what we call PI primary investigator on research one of my functions to work with federal government on research so we do research or department offense National Science Foundation national institutes of health you name it we do we do a lot of it the primary investigator is normally no natural professor or research Dr and he puts the team together part and I say he hears you put that team together and that team will consist of other faculty members and graduate students who are in those classes because what we're doing is not only helping on the research we're trying them to be the next line of researchers themselves so we do a tremendous amount of research every year for the stable particularly for the federal government FOR cut complete examples were working all night vision research for the Department navy seal program or work on the next generation combat vehicle for the army or working on a silicon carbide or silicon semiconductor chips that absolutely for national front sounds foundation and these are all dollars coming into the state and what we do is we use those grad assistants that to assist in that so that they're usually working in the rest as they're working towards a master's PhD or whatever and then we're also creating the same time that next generation as I'd say of research I don't know that distinctly answer yet just one quick follow up do you also have agreements with private companies they would want research not in certain areas several yes Sir you know and and some of liberty card say or some not we can talk off line about some of those we get brought in often I would say this the Walton college of business does a lot of private research as you can imagine with retailers and things like that but yes Sir we do I just your. Recently I I met phone met with a company out of Austin Texas not to get too far grants but is thinking about related Louis locating to the fable area because the work we're doing in semiconductor research. And I got that from one of our federal delegation members said make that connection so yes Sir we get a bunch and we're looking for more so meeting all these needs all my put extra pressure on your number of students at UT it puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the practice of thank you. Reporter you're recognized. Thank you of the question you made a statement about money coming into the state of. Is that money coming into this state general fund into the state or into the university system. No my finance person want to take a crack at that point but. I think that there are benefits to both them and or the most direct of support would come in directly to the university but in situations that the. Randy was discussing a company relocating obviously you're going to bring in workers and construct a solidity isn't and have revenues that would be. Attacks and become part of the General. Revenue of the state. Follow. Go ahead. Then cut I would it be presumptions to. Assume that these funds coming in could pay for these extra staff in the systems on their own right or the self supporting or could they be or. Could you help you're 100 per cent correct owned and that's when the doctor Markham mentioned earlier there's no additional funding for these positions that's how we fund through these type of projects okay thank you the clear that up. Our representative wouldn't. You got a question on. Of the 2 a. Wait a minute. Our. There we go all right hold on a second this is only with the current hold on hold on so in the current I cut you offi senator put it back in the queue thank you go ahead. Thank you Mr I will follow up now. Clarify for me again you you are at you. Requested 110 position you're surrendering 30 you're asking for any more. Every. U. S. 400 you wanted 110 which gave up 30 so you won't have any additional positions faculty graduate assistants and others is that correct net yes that's a net number yes Sir okay one follow up we are you telling us that all of the positions for graduate assistants will be paid for by private industry during research or what percent of that will be paid for and what will your budgetary requirements be for that that you say you already have. Well I guess I'm going to let deferred her here in a second sent a representative skews me the research one 's regret systems are paid normally out of the research dollars but you're correct so we have some other person of the 40 I would we would have to break that down I can we can get you that number but based on last year 36 percent of the graduate assistants were research support. So. The usual 60 positions if you will a poor under your budget. Close to it yes yes but my answer to represent Fortner service on the research also want to be clear about that you're exactly correct well as to all the questions I as. Secretary do what I'm not what what percent of vacancies do you have a how many employees do you have on that campus 12 how many of them then thank it for 2 years have not been filled in are still being budget. Well as far as the vacancies as far as the vacancies that have been vacant for 2 year we only have 3 positions that reach that status in January and one of them has a requisition to fill it right now the other 2 positions one is a teaching associate with the Jean Tyson child development center and the other one is a skilled trades position and those 2 positions are ones that we have a difficult time filling because our salaries that we can offer or not always competitive. Let me represent within 1.of clarification the unfilled ones are not budgeted. This year's we do not budget how many positions you have up there on that campus if the they had 3 unfilled. But we didn't instrument he told position we'll total positions. Right right now as of last week we had 4382 field position and you only had 3 positions have been vacant for 2 years okay thank you Mr represent working in the sense of a patient be talking too much but you have been stressing this personally for a couple years now. Taking that to heart and so we have been scrubbing those since all the ALC personnel meetings we were pretty bad when we first started and that was a commitment we made up based on a lot of questions you're asking the last couple years. You respond. Well there you go okay thank you thank you Mr chairman thank you the that's great that's good to hear because this is the topic of several members and members of this body and members of other other committees and and I commend you for doing that and I appreciate that thank you very much thank you thank you Mr chairman yes Sir all right we're going back to. Senator Beckham. Thank you chair the mostly the conversations around the graduate students but there's also 33 positions budget for. Project program administrator. In 2 different lines of faculty of pay ranging between 89000 and. But 394000 a year as the pay range for those 3 different classifications of positions. How many of those positions are full time. For the faculty positions sorry you're asking for the faculty position yes we're requesting full time positions but they may not be filled at a full time right how many of the 1100 people well 1600 people to fill those that those positions you have now are full time positions. I don't know if I can answer that let me look and see what I've got here. The salary range is basically is 80 9000 800 312. $394619 a year. Also want to know is how many of the positions that. You have. Or full time it was actually positions I I didn't bring that I I had shown that in 2020 we had 1000 500 64 faculty and this year there's an estimate of 5 1000 540 faculty I don't know how many of them are full time or part time. Of this number can you give that information to me. He won could you get that information doing yes Sir okay. You throw senator. Senator Hammer did you want to come back home. 2 air to be. I. One. Okay you're recognized. Thank you okay the end maybe I if this is the appropriate time to call me out but. This morning in the presentation on the issue of the underperforming schools in the performance Page. One of the questions I had was that some of the schools are gonna lose funding and if some of the schools have not been funded. Appropriately over the years as was given testimony and by us now cutting funds from some of the schools. Is that going to have a long term adverse effect on those schools because now they're gonna have to find that money in their existing budget because we're gonna be taking it out based on the report that was handed out this one I'd like to hear your thoughts on that as far as long term adverse affection may have because of some schools are underperforming because maybe geographically they don't have the population to pull from as we just saw with congressional redistricting losing population in areas are we are we unfairly punishing the schools by pulling this money out and how's that going to affect long term. And that's a really good questions Senator Hammer I think I need to make a couple of points that might help answer that some of the institutions that were given additional funding to their base had increases in productivity and some have decreases so we had some that got a double increase they got their productivity funding increase plus they got some additional funds because they were historically underfunded and the way that we determine that as we looked at their if the funding if they were significantly below this is our way of leveling the playing field for those institutions who have considerable under funding in their history so that they can not have that adverse impact of a potential loss due to productivity I'll also say that just by the nature of the productivity funding model we do control for some of that we we control in several places for the types of populations that these institutions service that they received additional productivity points based on certain demographic characteristics their student population exhibits so I think we control for that in the formula we and now we're looking to control for that in their base level funding so I think both of those things are happening at the same time. Follow up Mr. Go ahead thanks. Are we going to track it because if they if they they have got additional funding under the pretense of trying to catch them up and that become part of the permanent funding stream somewhere down the road it seems like we're going to we're going to tip the we're gonna tip the apple cart in the wrong direction because if they continue to perform well which is great that's what we want but we're increase their funding what are you doing to look out to the future maybe 567 years down the road we have gone too far. So I would respond to that in that we have a standing work group of the institutions of higher education we have a cross section between a public 4 years and 2 years system non system a rule and more urban schools where we are looking at that type of issue all the time making sure that we don't have some type of an intended consequence of just as a mechanism of the formula operating over time so at this point we still have a lot of controls we only allow for a 2 percent increase or decrease every year so that we can make those adjustments and decision should any of those things that you just mentioned start clapping okay and that reports back to Education Committee or Budget Committee who who's that come back to that that is that adhoc committee that makes recommendations to me and then I make recommendations to you okay to make adjustments to the former thanks appreciate thanks centers centers Bangor recognized thank you back on that because of we need to the universe touched on this a little bit this morning but not not thoroughly and that is so with the new funding this new increasing basis based on FT's only. And everyone was taken to account and now is that but that's not going to be a part of the formula moving forward we're going to increase their base this one time which then is going to alter their formula moving or the outcome of the formula as is planned to them moving forward right said this this increase to base was done after productivity was already conducted well yeah Senate and now it will be added to the base for next year so they're all of the new funding that's added to their base because of the executive recommendation will be subject to productivity changes in the future. It won't be preserve this is a formula to take into account if he's already. Okay not at all but so I guess my question would be so for this one instance we recognize the importance of fifties and then moving forward we're going to pretend like FT's do not matter in the calculation which that has potential to give even more out of whack if we think that FTZs have value that's that's correct so I have you know it's been my position that at these is not a great way to look at funding for higher education however some of these institutions were so significant only offer and the argument was made that that needed to be remedied at the time that we introduce productivity we didn't have the funds to bring everyone up to the same level I think the governor is taking this opportunity where we have existing revenue to try to level that playing field for some institutions you know any time that we see an executive recommendation or legislative initiative that adds money to the base not based on FTE then skews FC funding so it's it's dangerous to go back in and make those revisions annually but I think in this situation it does level lies some of the funding for like institutions and what was the total dollar amount in that we're putting in this new one time if the calculation. I have that okay. I believe overall it was a little around 5.5000000 and that's not that's not part of the formula that's just for the one time if the adjustment whatever is correct and that does include the portion that was added during fiscal 22 as well okay because originally was split over 4 years guys first year was last year and now the other 3 okay that work thank you. Senator hill you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman. Over here. 3 I think this is Amy be more for you than them at university is up there right now but I would like this information for not just University of Arkansas but rather for the other institutions as well it looks to me like we're subsidizing a lot of out of state students I'm only used by there was a news article about the number of out of state students they have on scholarships slash waiver of out of state fees everyone everyone where do you want to use on that. What is that hit our state budget line item of money lost revenue from out of state. And how much money is lost mess doesn't we don't budget for lack of out of state revenue okay so you don't show that as long as the incoming are. Okay Sir so how is that code and. I don't know that it is coated with institutional level as waivers and scholarships it's waiver Senator let me let me say not to challenge you directly here but we don't subsidize any out of state students no waiting of a is subsidizing means you're doing away with it we'll no Sir what we're doing is discounting it based on GPS A. Clark Sir I'm sorry well every school in the state basically does that mean that's foundation I ask for each does each will be broken down as but we make a tremendous amount of money Biden's in incentivising good students to come to the Arkansas entous popoli stay here was many of them do and we can you show me a percentage Sir can you show me the percentage of which president Senator percentage of students from I will use of I'm a use tax the number of students in Texas I come here and go to the university of Arkansas that stay in Arkansas and work that way those out of state the sprite I don't know if I can give you some colleges track and I can give you the best one I can try to find out the best one I have but you know we're is no requirement for them to tell us you know if they're staying here or not but we do know that a lot of them go to companies up in northwest Arkansas but just like the state reduces taxes to attract people to come into the state we reduce small basically to which we we discount some tuitions right based on to get people here but we are not giving anyone flat in state tuition based on. Residency none 0 your term yes to the custom Tyler Texas does not get to pay the out of state they they're they're out of state the is not waive. Not all of it. That's that's what I said we discount they're not paying instead what's the discount will okay center so if you're if you're an out of state and from Texas and your GPA of 3.6 and you in the past you had a with this year with 8 No ACT and you have ACT of 2628 skews me you paid in state tuition plus roughly $2000 so in in state tuition was 90 500 $754 for that hi student there's not many that level they paid 11000 to 54. When you get down to in state when they play it pay when the GPA is 3 to from those contiguous states its in state plus additional amount that equals 14000 versus 9000 so let's let's just say generally if we had everyone that was out of state paying the high they would make making the highest grade point that's an additional problem and I'm I'm generalizing here $21000000 right there so we're not we're not subsidizing and and I'd be more happy talk off line and I would definitely like to do that yes representive hill at we do an annual report on the waivers that we can provide for you for all of our institutions so and I think. Fuller has more to say about that so I will say as of how much how much is that bigger I don't have a total of on on him but I can get that for you but the report that we collect the institutions do have a limit on the amount of percentage of scholarships that they can award to students as there's a cap of 20 percent of their educational general budget that they can spend on scholarships and waivers and we collect that information each year and I'm thinking that report I'd like to see all that yes Sir. Representa Springer you're recognized. Good afternoon thank you Mr chair I just want to follow up on the question with respect to the positions that were cut 30 positions can you tell me the type of jobs those were they were cut what type of job so we talk about the reflected in the 30 physicians the. We we did a miscellaneous type of an administrative like. Reproduction equipment operator and records management things like that there were 4 positions in athletics that they surrendered to us we we are giving up some of our classified safety positions in exchange for some non classified positions that will use for the same type of campus safety duties there was a G. I. S. technician that is no longer needed healthcare tech that they've not been able to fill some lab support some library positions that were at a very low level that they were unable to support positions and maintenance and parking control that we're we're just not needed do you have a breakdown of that by race and gender. These were empty positions okay yes. They will never feel by anyone they were not filled right now the that classified safety positions were filled at least I know one of them was the other 2 perhaps we're just they were they were not able to fill them at the salary that we could offer with the classified position all right thank. Senator hammer you back on. To where you want. You all are we're not going to be yet so I reckon I don't know I mean 2 questions one was back on a and. Okay go ahead if you have a little may clarify something if you would of miss Markham I want I wanna make sure understood based on what you told Senator Dismang which told me. I was a did you say that the money that we gave as an infusion to bring things up to 5.7 that that's a one time infusion or is that going to be built into the budget permanent going for its built in permanently so This Is added to their base what I meant was it moving forward this will be subject to productivity changes okay and so. We should expect y'all come back next budget cycle and say we need more did the governor feel like okay we're doing this once and this is going to take care of it and and we should have to the next 2 years not be coming back I believe that was the agreement and the intent okay and then the second is to the question about a state tuition to the states around us have equal treatment to what we do as far as you know what center back was asking about are we pretty well on the same playing field with all the surrounding states around us yes specifically Texas so there's really no gain or loss or damage is just who's got the best program in hoops keep those people here once we get him educated generally I would agree okay thank you thank you Mr. All right saying no more questions we need a motion to approve this letter that which is due to a I have a motion and a second any discussion all in favor say aye. He opposed all right we're going to letter D. to be they need to be. Of your wish you yourselves but. Be ready to come back. Refrain from. Thank you Mr thank you Mr chairman item D. to be this is a letter from the department of higher ed on behalf of the institutions to request changes for position titles listed in the following attachment pages 2 and 3 show the requested changes the first column is existing titles in grades on pages 2 and 3 and the second column reflects the requested change again if the committee adopts this letter then those will be incorporated in the bills prior to them being introduced and then some referred to joint budget committee. I wish for you who your game thank you will say on this no I concluded that in my initial presentation I just wanted to remind everyone that it's basically the same position titles were just moving on from classified positions to non classified in giving institutions more flexibility to fill those at the salary that's most applicable for their region and a man we always in our manuals of the code C. 110 we have to look up C. receptor rangy as any of the proposed title the salaries have to sign a. Yes that's a maximum I will I will add that that salary on the non classifieds that is the maximum of what the current rate is now this is not a ranges this is the maximum the maximum and and that is like I said we're not increasing any maximums from what those grades currently are which took the maximum that current great and that's what the new line item Max would be all right. Senator hill you have a question. Yes I'll go back to what US senator hammers question was while ago I'm I want to see it in writing mentioned that the surrounding states to join us close to us in our area that they're out of state these are real similar to up to what the University of Arkansas doing I know it's not accurate 2 kids when a state okay we'll deliver Texas a and M. and T. that's not right okay all right we'll do some research and get some costs for you okay how to check myself in the senator Hammer. All right any other questions. All right we need a motion to adopt this letter due to be have a motion and a motion and a second. Any discussion. All in favor say aye any opposed there's adapted. We're going to D. 3 Henry. You're recognized yourself you can begin. Thank you Mr chairman in a right Spiro Legislative Research. So if you look at a document on your desk it's entitled summary of institutions of higher education which should be on your desk it's a summary of appropriations that we hope will assist you with your decision making today you'll be looking at and making a decision on the appropriations for treasury cash and other appropriations that are in the white binder on your desk. So there are 3 parts to the summary the first part you're gonna see the treasury appropriations which are paid from the revenue stabilization fund educational excellence and workforce 2000 funds that's largely where the productivity funding is so looking at the spreadsheet that's on your desk if you read from left to right in the columns it's going to show you the institutions or the fund will show you the page number of of the preparation as it appears in the manuals and then we'll show you the authorize appropriations that they have for the current fiscal year. And then the a they have to be recommendation for fiscal year 2023 which is the Arkansas higher education coordinating board. So the next 2 columns will show you the change in dollar amount for the next fiscal year as well as the percent change from the current authorize appropriation levels. And if you look at the far right column it has asterisk Senate and each one of those asters will have a different meaning so one asters will show that their line item changes to asters will show either in addition or deletion of a line item and 3 asterisk will indicate the deletion or addition of a new appropriation section. And at the bottom of the first page is gonna total the the 4 year institutions at the bottom. And on the second page of your handout it totals the 2 year institutions and that's in the same format and this is also the treasury fund approach appropriation summaries. If you go to the third page. You'll see the cash appropriation summaries. And these are the ones that are paid for tuition and fees sales and federal funds and it also has the same format as the previous pages. The very last page is what we call other appropriations so that's gonna include tobacco funding special revenues from court filings to the university of Arkansas UALR law schools and breast cancer research funds among others Mr chairman that's all I have on the summer. Representative with new 18 archer. Did you have a question yes Sir because. Okay either a couple the first one is on page one under you of a partner's for inclusive communities what what is that $250000 and what route above it is World Trade Center 250000 what one of those 2 programs. For for for programmatic specifics I'm probably gonna disturb to defer to the university of Arkansas. So my for university Arkansas come up. All. I told you not to leave. Give use identify yourself yes Randy mast cell university of Arkansas. Charles Robinson university of Arkansas. I am borderline University of Arkansas. Representative could answer questions World Trade Center is safe basically a federally funded project to 250000 you see we're asking for we ask for that every year to try to get them in the budget but they work with are Arkansas Economic Development Commission they work on trade deals to 2 different countries Center Bozeman basically created the World Trade Center program is based in Rogers but we fund them ourselves we don't get any money from you all to do it but we do put them in preparation so that you know in case somebody wants to give us money we we would sure certainly like to use that in the same thing with partners for inclusive community they work on a lot of developmental disability issues and they work off grants to they work primarily off if you for me with a promise grant which was like a $32000000 federal grant years ago that worked on a lot developmental disabilities and so we keep them in the appropriation we've I will tell you we've never got the money from the state. Thank you Mr chairman I have of go ahead for you a M. S.. Mayberry UAMS out there. Patterson. You identify yourselves a good afternoon I'm campaign or some chance of the universe of Arkansas for medical sciences. Amanda George as vice chancellor for finance and CFO at UAMS. Thank you right here. Sure my question a bit quick the of the governor mention is care for families and Mallory each and all of that from betterment of family and investments which for. And agree with but I notice in your budget on page one child abuse and neglect programs you're kidding that 4.$2000000 and then over on page. Page 3. I'm sorry page 2 of child protection training center is being cut up you know is $22000 but then page 5 there's another reduction for trial advocacy programs but you have children advocacy center is going to have 1000000 US 4.$8000000 it's being called out for child abuse child lived with and because the and then that will over that 22000 what we're is that money going or or you're doing away with those programs or or they're not needed. Is a programs that were removed from UAMS to the left if you don't mind adult I know we're a mask or is there a problem these are these programs are not cut these are programs that were removed from you I am us to another entity and so the state funding moved with them we do have some funding remaining in our budget that will continue to support that child advocates the rape and domestic violence programs at UAMS 2 of those you love what followed hello she left $1000000 in the child if you were to these programs go and. If you move the program what do you need $1000000 so the reason we still have programs at UAMS that will be addressing the needs that did not move the governor actually moved the funding to another agency and again we still have the $0 to support their work at UAMS but it moved to the child advocacy centers. Okay thank you Mr chairman thank you James thank you ma'am. Our senator Johnson who's your question for. Of. Is actually for the U. a fable I believe people that were all right what we all leave but I'll be glad representative Cavenaugh and senator really if you all got a question for you A. M. S.. Let let me just keep thank you make a major musical chairs and. Senator Hammer UAMS. All right. Wallace let's go with the. Senator Johnson. Thank you. You're recognized. I'm. I'm still just for fail you want to tell you all right. Senator Hammer. Share what was the rationale for why they move programs I'm too far left over here what was the rationale for why they moved programs away from you all. Thank. That was a that was a request from governor Hutchinson that that we a body by it was a smooth transition and I think program remains in strong place we stand ready to continue to support it that was not something that we initiated okay and then the how do we identify the programs on the 3 hand out that have been moved or is it just that one program off the handout sheet that was moved or other others as is the one program okay and then. The the. Newborn umbilical cord blood program I noticed it's listed on page one and then go over the page. 5. And it's listed also can what would you do with that program and just why is it listed in 2 different spots. M.. I'm not sure why it's listed in 2 different spots I can answer. Thank you for having sorry they're 2 different funding sources for that so there's and other appropriate excuse me in other funding source which is payable from the newborn umbilical cord blood initiative and I believe that's of the one where if you have an income tax you can you can make a donation to it and there's the the general in unfunded ability accord appropriation that's general revenue state treasury. Okay then the the request is set up a request for additional 250000 it's on page one. I'm just trying to stay what to places and it's not additional we're keeping it the same as it was in the prior year okay and what do you what do you do with that program just a quick explanation please. This is so that's a new one umbilical but blood banking program so it allows us to to drawn bill blood that might be needed for diagnostic tests for other reasons all right and are any of these funds up able to be matched for federal draw down dollars or I mean does it benefit any having these funds to where you can utilize draw down federal funds to match within these programs are totally unrelated it's not related to this program I'm having any of them on the street right right okay thank you to Mr. Thank you our before I get senator Elliots representative Cavenaugh who's your question for. Okay and Charles of surf Beckham UAMS 2 okay all right Senator Elliot you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman I am looking at Page actually on the 3 the adult sickle cell disease program and and I'm just wondering that the threes but basically the $380000 is is not the full funding on this program or are we finding some other way or how are we fund these critical so yeah there's no state funding for this this is just appropriations that's a place hold holder if funding were to become available but we do have some great support for this program and the thing that I wanted to be really. Clarify about this is that we have had this program well on paper anyway for some time and we have not managed every time we it comes up it's an appropriation and that's it and we're not getting anywhere with this so I'm just wondering how much it for the grant for the grant funding what have we been able to put toward the sickle cell program to treat people in this state to have sickle cell. I don't have $1 amount but I can follow up with you and get you that information obviously additional financial support would be helpful to move the program forward I know we riding on other grants that give us the flexibility to provide some money towards sickle cell disease treatment or we getting grants specifically for sickle cell disease treatment the answer to that post so for example are C. TSA can support projects that the that are a part of the bill cycle so clinic program but are are clinicians also can write grants directly specifically for funding for adults local socket is another last time I talked to a doctor there in that program grants was all that I could well that was all there was I guess is justice is still the case transit shows here. Okay. Thank you Mr thank you representative Cavenaugh off you're recognized. Hi Megan just turned on thanks dear weird right thank you my question is dealing on page it's actually 172 we're we're showing that the U. of a a medical sciences are going to have 470 $4000000 increase over appropriation that they already have. Yes that's correct that the majority of the reason for our request and appropriations is for our construction projects that we have going on the campus we are constructing a new surgical hospital orthopedic and spine hospital that hopefully you all have seen as you drive our campus and that is a project that will M.. Require additional appropriations but it also brings in additional revenues so we will have an additional margin generated from that program we're also expanding our radiation oncology facility building a new building so that we can Act accommodate proton therapy treatment in our radiation oncology facility and we're also in the process of constructing a facility in northwest Arkansas to for orthopedic and sports medicine which will also care for a Arkansas Razorbacks so it's that part of that you have a a a bill campuses well and those are the main construction projects that we have going on and that's why you see an increase in our capital appropriations primarily but there's also increases in the personal costs and supply costs because there are programmatic expenses that go along with those programs. All right Mister chair go ahead if can you explain to me why you're asking for appropriation for $20000000 for conference and travel when you're expenditure was only 105000. We just increased proportionally based on the programs that we were adding in and we looked at our percentage of spend 4:00 AM travel and conferences and it's not it's it's education too so education for the physicians and the staff and it's we kept the percentages consistent with what our actual spend have been your actual speed and was only $105000 you're asking for an appropriation of $20000000. Last year also COVID with an impact for us we canceled a lot of travel and conferences and that expense was was way down but we can take another look at that yes I'm a $20000000 for conference and travel to me seems quite large where I mean why are we spending $20000000 in conference and travel. Right it it's primarily for education but we will definitely take a look and follow up with you yes Mister chair if they can follow up with me and give me their historic spend on that because I can find it so thank you all right thank you. Senator Beckham you're recognized if you. Thank you Mr the. Yeah I've got a lot of questions on 172 as well it's 18 percent increase over owner salaries and just walk me through the Ford 70000000 it did they answer that you're keeping percentages and increasing overall doesn't doesn't make sense of these numbers 18 percent salary increases that. So what state employees are getting Reserve just which all decided to increase of for your points. No it's related to the program growth so it's additional FTE ease tied to the programs that I talked about they are also growing other programs on our campuses well mainly clinical programs and some examples of those include cancer cardiovascular urology and Dr Patterson may have others that he wants to add to that so it's it's a combination of getting to market on comp compensation which we do you know that we are behind market of particularly in the health care positions but also adding positions that will allow us to generate additional margin for the campus and grow our and all of our mission areas. The. The capital improvements. How much of how much are you spending on the. Building in northwest Arkansas. Currently our budget is 98000000. That includes the land. One of the other 2 projects how much of those that surgical hospital here in Little Rock is 85000000 they're comparable and ends and sides and 65000000 for the radiation oncology building. So 240 5000000 total nights will be spent in 2020 to 2023 and part of that will be spent 2020 to 20212022 budget the record right it's over the next couple years. Love love I'll tell you have between now and then this fiscal year you'll spend part of the money is that correct we will spend part of that yes how much of that will you actually spend in the 2020 to 2023 budget. The majority of the northwest Arkansas facility will be in the 23 budget probably half of the radiation oncology facility will be in the next budget year to take another look at that a capital outlay since you're asking for 360000000 for 245000000 about late between current budget and next year's budget. Yes and I'm not also includes our on going capital expenditures so we have a base of 110000000 that we have in our current appropriations so we have ongoing renovation projects that and things like that it's just part of our on going business but yes we can definitely give you any the other thing I would add to when when our projects come for approval it's been required that we have the appropriations to cover the entire project even though it's a multi year project. Folder. All right so 20202021 which was last fiscal year. You spent $7000000000 in capital outlay 6000000 or within. A capital of 6.5000000. 2021 to 2022 which the current physical year were in you've been appropriated 110000000 you're working on some of those projects now correct we are correct in your taking the entire cost of those projects and asking for that money again in 2021 or 2020 to 2023 based on what you just told me. Well it so you're you're asking does the appropriate full funding for the projects for 2 fiscal years a row. It's it's different projects so there's 3 big projects that are spent split over the 2 fiscal years the majority of that surgical hospital here in Little Rock is being paid out of the current your appropriations that radiation oncology is about half from the current your preparations and will be about half from from next year and the majority of the northwest Arkansas project will be in the next years appropriation. What we can take this off I don't think we're getting or the run different pages here you're asking for you let late $245000000 in projects in the past 3 fiscal years the one previous those one a the one coming you're asking for $370000000. It doesn't. Doesn't make sense to take this offline. Our. Read 40 if you got a question you a mass. What agencies your question for or is not a question for an agency. Okay all right. Reserve can have you got a question back gave me a. Okay. I think that's all the questions for you a M. S. your excuse created thank you Sir. Okay we'll bring you of a back table and get to questions from rigid Cavenaugh. And then senator Josh to be first. All. Before you. For your for your representative Tosh who is your question for you have a okay thank you. If you love identify yourself again Randy Mastella University of Arkansas fable Charles Robinson university of Arkansas Fayetteville amble along University of Arkansas office. All right senator Johnson you're recognized for a question thank you Mr. And I'll just throw this out to the panel the I'm not sure I'm still not sure they should even be under University of Arkansas but I want to talk about the school for mathematics sciences and the arts in hot springs unfortunately that's what happens to be right now. The. Budget shows. Institutional total request for the fiscal year 13.6000000 of. I need some figures about where AS MSA is related to COVID in a virtual versus in person since this is a residential component place where we're going is it go backwards how much of the time the last couple years have they been in class and how much of they've been zooming in of to properly fund this is and again this is not. Again I have lots of questions about this actually being under your your jurisdiction no offense to any all I just wanted this is the only K. 12 thing that you a system deals with is that is that correct Mr mention well yes certain this is the best kind of question I can answer they don't come under the worst of Arkansas fable to come to the U. a system I see SMS a rep here to speak but they're not in the revenue and I apologize for that purpose browse Allen on it was right above where you all were so that's probably my mistake. Chanceraps I apologize to you will for Senate. Let me get the you have any questions and then we'll get back that'll be fine thank you. All right of. I guess referred to the representative Cavenaugh. Chairman mine's going to be you a system. I read you of a of a system. Which one. Okay you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman. I have a question for the Division about agriculture and hope you can help me with that there's a project just south of Jones pearl and I need to know if you are involved with that its the is there You rice research center there that's under construction also the rise museum of are you all involved I was looking at your request for your appropriation here for the Division at agriculture us wonder first of all are you involved with that project and if so to what extent yes Sir again that's the University of Arkansas System asset and I know the Division bags here but they're not a fable asset as well okay yes so that would not directly no Sir okay thank you. Any more questions for the university of Arkansas Fayetteville. All right a representative these you're recognized usually 11 here we thank Mr Parisi thank you Sir. Now we know why you wear glasses. The messily. Questions from senator hill kind of spawn a curiosity I believe you made the statement referring to the there was a discount was the term that you used maybe they can also be termed as an incentive for out of state student come based upon the discount to give that curious you made a comment you said you know what everybody does that you know everybody has a program of discount program like that. And now Senator Hill kind I had a rebuttal to that but my question for you would be what percentage of students currently at the U. of a are out of state students coming to the U. of a available that take advantage of this discount. I know I don't have that number I do know thank you yes we will I would tell you this last last time I checked I checked for a member of the House this was probably 2 years ago we had 2100 of students that we're not getting a discount that we're paying full vote about $25000 a year Nicks 40 how many $0 it was so I would have to look back at that again I think the article serial referred to I believe I read the same article and and forgive me if I'm one or 2 percentage is off but I believe the article stated that the currently the number of students and you have a fable they are out of state students coming from predominately Texas and Oklahoma. It was somewhere in the neighborhood of 43 percent. Would you say that that would be accurate I would say taxes barring 20 percent maybe 25. Yes taxes around 25 percent but and your right to the number about is about 43 percent for all out of state students and and I also want to underscore that we recognize the importance of putting our resources and our Kansas and we make a special effort in terms of how we award scholarship That we take from my central budget a scholarship budget and we award significant and when I say significant we're talking about 90 percent or more of our scholarship dollars from the central pool go to our Kansans and we intend to do more of that because we see the out of state as they add to the vibrancy of the campus they the good for our our budget but that goodness fire budget that benefit should benefit our Kansans and in Arkansas students particularly those who I have need and so we're looking to do more of that but we recognize the importance I just want to underscore that is a point because I I do I'm a historian by training so I understand Arkansas and the concerns about provincialism and making sure we're taking care of our own and I want to assure you that we are taking steps to do that well I appreciate you having that in Dr Martin you out come the table right if you if you could maybe maybe you have the data I would like to see the number of students each 4 year institution in the state that are in state students versus out of state students see where were are on that see if if if our other institutions are following that same mindset of investing their dollars and and what would also be curious when you talk about your investing your scholarship dollars in Arkansas students where the emphasis is on that is that GPA or is that ACT score what is asset used at the register of the short little blurb about every constituent back home who contacted me recently was very frustrated third generation student trying to get into the U. of a honor student at my local high school all Advanced Placement classes as 31 31 on the ACT and the scholarship offering was basically And when the parent contact you have a I actually have a copy of the letter of and with the David. You have a tells we've we have all the 30 ones we need and so for you so we're investing all of our money in Arkansas students. But yet close to 50 percent of the students if you have a from out of state it just seems like there's a conflict there absolutely but please if you have a have a situation like that have the parents send me the the letter I and he won't receive that response because we absolutely embrace as many students from Arkansas that we can get particularly those who have 30 ones on ACT that's outstanding and we want to do more and and we added money to a general scholarship funding in 2019 about $5000000 which was a significant ad for us but we thought that that was a reflection of our of the need to do more for our Kansas and and that won't be the end of we we intend to do more because again we're a land grant institution we never lose sight of that and we're going to make sure that any financial benefit that we get from out of state is coming I'm from Texas I probably shouldn't stated in this room but I've been in Arkansas for 22 years and I want to know I have been reformed and I'm. And then I am in our cans and now I cheered. Quite a quite a lot for us when we beat Texas I did on the field of education I want you to know I didn't do that but I I did have a problem with students doing it and so what we're really committed and I want you to know that it's not just words we are attractive to of this group of students from other states because where I tuition is placed a relative to their in state schools so we we are attractive but our traction also goes to our educational programs which a really strong our reputation and it is true when the Razorbacks do well we do well I mean we tend to attract people from from of the state so so I we hear you and and I always of value and appreciate advocates for our kids are from Arkansas and we will continue to make that a point of emphasis as we move forward thank you for that commitment I I just you know what I think of our continue with your states especially Oklahoma Texas and I look at Oklahoma state. You North Texas I look at all those different schools Baylor I don't think they have a 50 percent close to 50 percent population on their campuses of Arkansas students going there so there there is some reason why these out of state students are coming to the U. of a and I applaud your access to education for that and just be recurs to see that data from Dr mark upon on how are other institutions of state or following through with that so thank you for your answers. Our we've got I thank one more question for you of a. Senator Hammer you're recognized thank you I think the testimony while ago when we talk about personnel was one to 18 today I understand that right. She said 1 of 19 so 190 that's the desired goal right it that's is that 19 students in the classroom and does that incorporate like to surely you got classes that have more than 19 and it shows that number like including everybody from the custodial staff to the to the you know now the chancellor or how what is that now that sign of faculty the student to faculty ratio so you know you do averages so you look at all your classes you do averages and where I ratio is probably more about 1 to 191 it to 20 of course yes we have large classes where you know you have a faculty member maybe teaching 200 students for use that person as the court graduate assistants that help with that are you every at that rate sure you average or compared to other institutions where you come in on that ratio or do you now well in terms of our SEC peers where where about in line with the SEC peers we tend to do we want to maintain that ratio because it means that students have greater access to the faculty member the largest the the the bigger the ratio of the like that the greater the challenge in getting that student hands on attention so we like to maintain that size because fire very high research status and the and the and and our and our role institution it's good for student success our Mister could I direct something to miss Markham through the chair. I'd I'd like to I'd like to get a report that shows the ratio of all the of institutions of higher ed institutions in Arkansas to see what the comparison of instructor to student ratio is based on the content of what we just had if I could get that what you want to send it out to everybody else okay shares fell thank you if you give me the thumbs up on it thank you thank you are we got one more question for the U. of a a man Senator Elliot you're recognized thank you so much and and talk purpose and others who can help me with this I know because like I I worked for the college board for a long time and these are the folks who do the AP classes and the national merit of scholarships and so when they do get to the testing the PS 80 on the SAT. I know there was a I wouldn't call it an issue but that there was a reality I think quite some years ago a universe of Arkansas not necessarily a problem but related to what we're talking about now and that Texas is a very large state in Texas has thousands of students who take the PS 18 the SAT and therefore qualifying many many more for these national merit scholarships which is big money and it taxes been as large as it is you know they didn't even have a place for all of their customers cars ships and they are attracted to universe of Arkansas with these you scholarships this is years ago not measure that still the case and I'm so I'm wondering you know to what extent that might have changed at this point and that's something you can tell me later I'm not even asking you for an answer now because it's something you're probably going to need to research because I know that Arkansas to in response to that I'm familiar that you put more money and to make sure we could attract more Arkansas students because the bottom line is the Texas teams were coming with their own big scholarships and and it was turning out to be more of an advantage for universe of Arkansas than it was for the students and they were in essence kind of subsidize and part of what we're doing so this is not as clean cut as it appears is a pretty it's a pretty injury intricate kind of thing that was going on and we were not in a position to really compete with those national merit students and and Texas they will come with a big scholarships because we. There is hereby school districts even gives students a chance to take those that take that test so I just like to know historically is that there is is that the issue that I thought it was and if it is me where are we now even if it's not where we now. In impact for the number of students who are coming from Texas and even Oklahoma who will bring in national merit scholarships with them and what that could mean for us it's not a complaint it's just something I think we need to think about and take a look at and see how that fits into everything yes we will get you that information I. Related I guess is and it also helps to give some context types of art in support of our Kansans 86 percent of our voting Hammer an honors college fellows in the fall of 2021 Mar Kansas yes so you know these of our students receiving our best Coliseum on the campus an 86 percent work and so we we make a special effort to direct in our our dollars to to those students by understand your question and now you know in some of that was born out of what was happening that some people have impression we're just given scholarships of those students from Texas but they were really bring with them but the I I just want to appreciate that that was born out of so many of our of our students were coming from Texas but we needed to do something to make sure we worst helping our own students here in the state but they're not may be another way to help her students here to state perhaps we could position them to get some of those very large scholarships as well and that's another way to stave off I'm in a bad way Texas well we can I don't care about statement I appreciate I want to click clarify something we do not displace our Kansans Mada status are we don't turn away a single our cans and to make room for an out of state students as I said before or land grant we look to take care of our own first and you know that's where we operate that's on motor operation so when we have students who come from out of state it is important to remember that not taking the place in Arkansas yes so just wanted to clarify that thank you and thank you Mr chair thank you can I add something to that in we've we've talked about the tuition all we've talked about is that the reason or coming. I just want to remind really the whole committee that through your efforts to the State of funny we're really good institution you know we hold I have all public institutions we've told 21 rankings in the top 50 between engineering business and also there's a draw to come in Arkansas and we want to keep people here as well you know we talked about that number but I just wanna run everybody that this is not just a monetary reason or maybe a that maybe incentive there's Senate because there's excellence there and that's been an effort some students tuition the state giving money donors giving money so I just want to put that out there. All right I thank your excuse. We're ready to run all. All right with you have a system. They'll come we've got a I thank 3 questions 3 representatives and senator won't ask questions of them. Reporter. This is mark from. You're asked beg of they will also what is the 2 year institution you wore question 25 and 6 are in the room. In the north Arkansas. Is what we'll call yep I just wanna make sure somebody was here thank you Sir. Are you all will identify you sales it will start off with that senator Johnson. I'm done by the president of the U. of a system. Jana Terry on the vice president for finance the a system. Melissa roast university of Arkansas system. All right. Senator Johnson thank you Mr chairman I'll just everyone that I jumped the gun on a while ago. Dr Robert I know this is very difficult you're to have for so and I please don't take anything I say is particularly at you but when you sit at the top you're an easier one to shoot at so I must go ahead and shoot of. Of math and science school in hot springs I have continued to have doubts about it being properly placed. Within the University of Arkansas especially you in the system office but the that might be a discussion for another day when we're not looking at budget matters but what I really want to know about is. We look at it appropriation a request of 13.$6000000 and we know that at least for part of the last couple years they have been operating in something less than normal capacity being a residential school and not operating on campus could you kind of or someone else there bring me up to date on exactly OR AS MSA is on how they operated the last 1820 something months how that affected the fiscal impact of the I realize there are some things that go on with the students are on campus or not but I want to know where that stands in are we. Maybe best looking at some kind of a virtual model indefinitely on that campus correct I want to make 2 points thank you for the question number one in terms of its place and you have a system that was this body in its wisdom that made that decision number years ago I would say from my point of view and looking at it I see the research opportunities are afforded to those students what are clearly stated in our UA little rock you a mass and and conjunction with federal faculty probably with other institutions with in state also and so I I see the students benefiting and they go on to win really substantial national scholarships because of that effort in terms of the residency face to face instruction actually AS MSA and and Director older devices here comment on this all right they did a terrible job of of really being face to face and as I understand it and looking and actually they might have been one of of only a few perhaps only one of one or 2 schools nationally that went face to face with all the similar type institutions I went virtual almost immediately they did that through a variety of mechanisms first of all they had complete by and with the faculty they understood that this was the optimum way to educate these very bright students number 2 they kept them on campus and they severely restricted their abilities to go home and visitors to come in that was comfortable for families but I they did so after polling the parents of the students and then they had a rigorous testing in isolation policy in place I set aside some of the best and I feel them and use those for quarantine students all other courses were built for many of the courses were built with a virtual component so that when students. Hi everyone of these experiences where they ended up being called deposited had to be isolated they had they have the option to continue their education but do so remotely someone Hunter parents some stating the quarantine space on campus. So there were a. A percentage a a number of the students who basically opted to go home and to I guess go back to their local high schools or whatever for the remainder of that to us and they went Sir I don't know whether they went to their local high schools I do know they went home at that to to be cared for by their parents and they could participate educationally a remote I'm like all institutions I know that a SMS a switch to a virtual. Model that March when all of us did it cross all of our education but as soon as they possibly could they opened up to face to face instruction even though there comparison institutions across the United States did not and I think it's really a testament to the students or parents and the faculty who who carried out this rather comprehensive plans. So from a fiscal standpoint it was probably not affected as much as maybe some other institutions under your purview correct okay that answers my question thank you Dr Robert thank you Mr. All right. Representative Cavenaugh you have a question of the U. of a system yes Sir. Thank you ma'am you're recognized thank you Mr chair I'm over here to the right my question's going to be dealing our page 70 I see that you're asking for $43000000 increase to your procreation it looks like you're professional fees your actual speed and is 9.7000000 you're asking for an appropriation of 65.$5000000 that is 55000000 over your actual spin or for 5 times your actual spent why are you needing that much. Thank. Yes and the reason for the increase and and and partially at the professional fees for the current year we we didn't or working on our workday implementation and we did not get as much as we thought we would spend this year spent on the student portion which just kicked off this year. And so that's the reason for that actually being lower than it it should have been higher. Should have been yes it should have been what we should hit have been we should have probably spent closer to probably 20000000 last year. And so that'll be deferred into the future years which maintain means these numbers increased for the next year and these are our cash appropriations so these are not a state funds that we're. You're asking for a bigger procreation well above what you're spending is and even if it's 20000000 what you should have spent yet had appropriation for 40000000 right wanting to increase it now dyslexics the 5 yes so so there's another factor we acquired a university an online only university this past year and Hey there they run about 42 to 45000000 and tuition revenues most of that will come in on those lines that you see that are extremely large and their professional fees at the the various personnel costs will be paid through a professional fee service right now and so all of those numbers are in there as well as see the other. The operating expenses related to just running the university itself hello Mister chair the other experience that I have a question about is your debt service your debt service you only spend 108000 and you're asking for an appropriation of 3.8 yes that was 34 times what yes your actual spend we we did not we just began paying back our ERP we did add a line to with at a local bank regions and we are we just will start principal payments this current year we were not paying principal for the first couple of years that we started the project in what is that debt service a year as. About 4000000 a year. Okay so you're asking 3.8000000 but you're saying that debt service is going to be 4000000. It's approximately form is I'm doing numbers in my head it's a quarterly so I was just trying to come up with that around number but it that covers that number okay that that debt for its 8 a 10 year loan I believe there are again and that 2018 we didn't pay any principal until this year so we'll pay that off in 2028 okay thank you. All righty representative wouldn't you have a question for you of a system yes Sir so you're recognized. I want to pursue representative Cavenaugh is question. Of that 43 what was personal services we'll 20. I'm sorry what do you what what makes up the other of the 43000000 besides what she spoke out the and we have both the portion we pay to an outside company to Lloyd who is our implementor for the workday implementation as well we have to contract with them right now and then we also have the personnel costs related to the online university. Okay and then if I may follow up with chairman go ahead of the next. In the next section of you of a federal 9.8000000 what what is that going to be used for. Mr ring could you route could you tell us where you're looking. It's impose a gist of 43000000 and the not in the book I'm in this the summer she yes the 3 sure let us look at that I don't believe we have access to that document so. So you a system various units 40 $3000000 increase from 77.1 to 120 was the question representative Cavenaugh and. And I I ask about that relative to what what's what makes up the rest of your and then there's 9. Point 8000000 in the next group down. University of Arkansas federal. Right in the school of mathematics science and the arts. 9.8000000. Yeah it's page one of one. If you're a fan. This question you. Hello NO one about a $10000000 request will bring rain to back up here. I would hope before we get through with any other questions for this is that one more management system taken care of for. The mismas Markham 1 questions very quickly University of Arkansas same category $11000000 reduction is doing with their performance goal or what is that I'm sorry and I'm not exactly sure which which chart are you looking at make sure can the 31 page on page 3. Page 3. Sorry. I don't have the 3. Okay can you repeat your question I think this is the. Yeah you know we're given the University of point 8000000 but yet we're covering 11.111.4000000 of the university of central Arkansas is that to do with their performance go not achieving it. So yes Sir let me assume from that that the the university help place them almost $10000000 Sir I can answer that you see a they're having 11.4 approximately 0 decrease that's driven by a 14.7000000 decreasing capital improvements that the university last year requested a one time increase in capital improvements and now that's being removed at the finish their integrated health sciences building that's you CA hello so then how do they go it has to do with whether requests last year absolutely okay what about the 2 well about the 9.8000000 from the U. of a. Where that's the cash anyone from the federal financial bring him up or are you through the system. Read it wouldn't suit. You through if you have a system ask you questions our state representative what part of the University of Arkansas state bills budget increases due to productivity so it's it's positive gains it's also that 2 percent appropriation increase for ETF growth so it isn't always a little bit above what we anticipate their funding will be but they're going to be multiple factors that are going to lead to that point 98 percent increase for facials appropriation. 1.91 a. Yes for a little less than one percent of their appropriation. Our yard thank you Mr chairman. Do you have a occur. We got transferred Richmond but with Mr Rubin you you have a a pretty good friend also the them okay answers are good shape thank you all right if North Arkansas Community College going forward we have a question from representative Fortner. US senator Beckham DO you want south East Arkansas Community College up or Southeast Arkansas here. You will be next up. You identify yourself Sir. My name's Richard stipe I'm vice president finance administration of or the Arkansas College and. Representa Fortner has questions you don't will your far right yes thank you thank you for coming down thank you Mr chairman I have a question of the 19 percent a loss or decrease could you explain that for me yes north Arkansas college requesting a decrease in their cash appropriation for the next fiscal year. There was a really a request through ADHD from legislature over the last couple of years that we try all the institutions trying to bring their cash preparation request more closely in line with their actual spending. And north arc hasn't done that previously our leadership felt like there was some room for us to reduce our request for this next year so that doesn't reflect the change in funding or a change in plans is just reduced capacity of spending to be more closely in line 4 we expect our actual spending to be for the next couple years that's refreshing thank you yes thank you. All righty your issue Sir no more questions of Southeast Arkansas. Your body there with them if you'll come for the table. You get your ****. You come to the table when you I defy you sales then on Senator Beckham to your left has a question for you. Thank you Mr chairman committee members members of the House and Senate Stephen lumber president Southeast Arkansas college. Debbie Wallace was present for fiscal affairs for Southeast Arkansas college center Beckham you're recognized thank you chair. Can you explain the funding increase request 30000030. Yes 60 1000000 from 2021 the and 30 almost or over 30000000 from 20212022 to 2020 to 2023 yes Senator Beckham thank you for your for your question so the majority of that is construction projects on our campus it's also the anticipation of a performance energy contract to upgrade significant systems are campus including LED lighting security other other systems but we're building a new student center and new student housing that comprises the majority of our request so it's construction related. Servian increases in salaries and overtime extra help as well in the millions of dollars there as well really though. We're increasing that. Not significantly but yes we're increasing salaries with the expectation when these facilities come online that we will need additional personnel to operate them. I was looking for me is you had $1000000 spent in 20202022 I'm sorry 20202021 and you're requesting 3.2000000. That's trouble yes. And part of that is our anticipation of potential grants that will help cover some of that spending for example this fiscal year we were awarded a 1.$2000000 grant from the United States Department of Education and as a primarily black serving institution so some of that is anticipation of ancillary ward by other entities such as the department of education. How many students do you are unreal we currently enroll about 1300 students per academic semester. No further questions. All right. I see no other questions we are excuse Preciado coming. I see no other questions on the board Mr rasher you finished. Colleagues what we're gonna do is we're going to drop. They a heck of the Arkansas higher education of recommendation. For a D. 3 which include pages one through 5. And this is just giving the authority to staff to draft these bills. If you need of off of we don't hold here we flag you got a concern that you may want to talk to the well this teaches about will flag them for you. Otherwise these things could bill still be changed to amendment when we get into the fiscal session but this gives all the authority for the staff to draft of each of these bills I need a motion of a motion and a second any discussion. All in favor say aye. Any opposed. All right members tomorrow we'll be back in here at 9:00. With the department of corrections first and then the department of health will be tomorrow afternoon presage all staying with appreciate the good work we are adjourned.