Education- Senate and House

My comment say we've had a long process of adequacy study and it whether you've been here for one year whether you've been here for twenty years you know your membership on this committee is important and your membership and and this process is important and there's a lot of folks that have you know may different various recommendations and review the adequacy study from different perspectives we've received and I appreciate the written testimonies that have been given the written recommendations from different agencies or organizations and associations as well those all have been considered I think a hopefully by members as well because we share those with everyone and right now at this time you have the agenda is kind of Klay blank but these recommendations that have been submitted by these members I just I believe need to be heard and so with that we're going to take a short recess so that our staff can get copies of those out to the members and so we're going to be in recess for about ten minutes or so well the staff can get these copies of these recommendations from various members and I can talk with those members so that they have or are ready to kind of talk about what they recommended to me I think that's the fairest process that we have going forward so the recommendations that that were sent in by September twentieth is what I'm referring to and there may be others you know to come but this is going to be kind of a working meeting so that's that's what we're supposed to be doing and this is a working meeting to kind of get to what the house is proceeding with what the Senate is proceeding with or how we all maybe could come together and proceed together on I think that's the way I want to handle today so we're going to take a short recess we're going to get these different recommendations that were submitted by September twentieth that were at to miss Nelson we're gonna get copies of those sent out to made for the members. Jett and need to give her a little time to do that so we're just going to recess for about ten minutes. The nation's here and like I said this is going to be a working meeting I appreciate the staff giving us some time to get copies out for everybody and now the best thing I know we've we've heard lots of presentations this whole time which has been great but we had really heard from y'all as legislators and your process so that's kind of what we're here to try to go through so I'm gonna go ahead and start with some of the add let's just go ahead and start with and. Let's see. Senator Elliot I'll go ahead and start with you if you'd like you can just present yours from your chair if you're ready to talk about what you see at that would be great. Okay we'll just go down the line. Yes. Okay. Perfect. Yeah I'll. All right. Take also does I don't know I got my coffee here and that I brought myself. What I'm going to speak from on this long sheet what we did. Either one yeah yes we. I have a copy of this I'm only at your yes aircraft as well as the long sheet okay got it I'm just going to use what I submitted and you can find it on here as you wish because it's not I don't think it's that difficult okay altogether I had five recommendations for consideration but the last you know they they're not all about money my first one that has to do with salaries I make this suggestion since we already have a part we have so much of this information out there and I thought it was a decent are kind of a suggestion from the governor so I started out suggesting that we adopt that's option one adopt what the governor had suggested and knowing fully well you we've already started this school year we could not it was not going to affect the school year that we're in right now. And so what I suggest is that we we make the necessary changes we need to to start the implementation and the next school year and all of that everything is here about that I don't need to go through it all because we have seen and discussed that that our recommendation of up a great deal anyway and the costs of their we would just have to make those changes so that we could implemented starting in the next school year that's number one number two I the other suggestion that I may number two suggestion is that of the committee the adequacy committee recommended to get in the beginning of the twenty three twenty four school year this is something else to consider Arkansas teachers I shall have a minimum of compensation that's competitive with surrounded Smith surrounding states. I'm not thrilled over that one necessarily because I cannot. Get to the point of believing that what we get from the surrounding states is necessarily see a competitive salaries that we're going to need but that's just something else to consider and rather than putting in all the numbers about this we can find what those numbers are at S. sorry be refined NCSL we can find at CSG so we would have several sources to go to to consider this so that's number two. and also I suggested that. For folks who did not to get a bonus. Going into the school year for people who did not get a bonus because their school districts that already use our money or committed or whatever those who did not get a bonus that the state should take responsibility for using the the federal funds we have to make sure everybody gets a bonus at the rate that the legislature the A. L. C. a quote unquote recommended which you know has the effect another way around when you take a look at the results of that we should use that money and make sure if in school district a you don't get a bonus the state will make sure we get a bonus there may be some discussion that needs to be had about that and if you did get a bonus and it does not measure up to what the legislature the ALC said It should be saved we said five thousand dollars for a teacher and you only got three thousand dollars we ought to make that person hole because that is what the A. L. C. was shooting for make it whole and we should have these disparities same thing is true with the classified personnel if you did not get twenty five hundred dollars we are to make sure you get that twenty five hundred dollars by first thing in January we will pass a supplemental use in those federal funds to make sure it happens. you look at number that was part of number two actually but number three. The support personnel we have such a Jaggard way of thinking about support personnel necessarily because of the positions the different qualifications may be different it's not the same thing all the way around and so because it seems to be such as such a a different kind of higher rather than taking the time and thinking about a logical way look at for example what's required of them what do they have to do whatever qualified qualifications have to be we need to look at this at this point decide we are going to have those cut just as we do for teachers we need to have some of the schedules for support personnel and I'm recognized I'm Rick recommending that we take the time to do that and you know I said for implementation twenty three twenty three twenty four but you know that's you know that's arguable but I just think it's time for us not to just take everybody and lump them into one big category and not have some kind of salary schedule for them that is transparent and thoughtful so these last two don't have anything to do with money you can smile now for the gifted and talented program we have information we need some information and as some clarity for folks who are not a part of our study group so what I'm recommended here is that because we we're not asking for money but there is there is a a table that shows what's been spent on gifted and talented by district by size and a whole bunch of other categories all I'm asking here is that we place that table into our adequacy report so that districts can compare what they're doing with other districts so we will know. And would be transparent for the public to see if they if they so wish and lastly and this is one of the first ones I talked about I thought we should be a part of our study when we did the actual study with APA one of the recommendations that they made to us was that we should Create a task force we should create a task force or whatever you wanna call it to help us to help Put in place and some logical coherent way all of the extraneous factors that have an impact on whether or not a child is in a position to do well in school because it's not just the school site for example housing may be an issue because maybe last night that the child might have your child might have slipped in a nice warm bed and somebody else's style slept in the car and hunger and all these issues that have an effect and not just try to say what they are but take some time because the research yes some people help us so that we won't keep trying to do everything in the Education Committee when we know we can't do it we're not cut out to do it we're not even here to do it but there are other committees of the legislator or as we're not here to to do something about we shouldn't be here just to do something about hunger if if we want to do something about it systemically rather than just make sure kids get food at school and send them home with a backpack and and hope in the summertime they're going to be okay the bottom line for this is if a child can get a great start and finally I think we all now know what a whole child if the child is now if a child can get a great start and have the same or similar kind of things that the rest of us take for granted for our kids hi there is a reason if your child does not go to pre K.. You spend a great deal of time from the top from the time the child is born all the way to their out of the house and you're still doing that you know if you your smoking some if you think you are you know you are you know your pocketbook But if my child is not going to pre K. I do everything I can to make sure he or she gets a good start. That is the exact same reason we need to be thinking about the kids who are not fortunate enough to be able to get a good start because of great starts didn't matter and great housing didn't matter you wouldn't be concerned about it for your own child that's what I'm talking about here you do everything you're possible for your child to be a whole person. What a great start. An opportunity keep progressing that is what that number five is about but the APA suggested that we do it not just through us but through task force that's it manager all in some questions of anybody has an. Okay thank you the numbers still have any questions for senator Elliots. Quite clear isn't. Right thank you senator Chesterfield you have a question no question I was going to you're ready models yeah. All right your next on or just going down the road. Fine okay thank you senator Chesterfield thank you so much thank you senator Elliots I did not go into all of that but I did propose a starting salary of and we we discussed preferably in categorical which would mandate that the salaries paid my proposal is a starting salary forty six thousand dollars for teachers in bridge cases support professionals a minimum salary of twenty dollars per hour but I wanted us to look also at the differentiation between of what the jobs are because we do know that we have a shortage of bus drivers we have a shortage of people who are able to be bookkeepers in our schools if you don't have an excellent bookkeeper in your school. In your district is more than likely going to some time being fiscal distress because it starts at the local level and in the last few County they an approach that through a stipend depending upon the school enrollment as to the additional monies that would go to those individuals who act as I bookkeepers and registrars all of our salaried employees are essential workers and so we can't just talk about it as teachers but as all members of the education community needing to have them. I have greater access also wanted to suggest that we contact that the committee on Education would write a letter to the state congressional contingent urging them to amend the law which precludes any member of the education community from going on employment in the summertime if this is a distinct disadvantage with private of bus driving companies and cabinet meeting we have the school districts that have these cafeteria workers we're to disadvantage because those individuals can draw unemployment but I school employees cannot draw unemployment and I see it nine month contract folks because our teacher salaries a pro rated over twelve months which gives them a little bit more people still think we get paid a whole year but we know is just appropriation of what we're making but those individuals like the bus drivers and cafeteria workers and those individuals who draw nothing because they don't have anything to pro rate over twelve months should be free to be able to draw unemployment in the summertime so it's one of those things that I think we ought to look at because if we have a nine month hourly employees I suggest that they at least be able to draw unemployment and if we speak as one voice to a delegation perhaps we can enhance their knowledge of what a huge huge impact this is having on people who draw nothing in their first check is usually not paid until the end of September when school starts that means if you aren't making anything in the summer time by the time school starts in August you don't get a check until the end of September. That's a huge huge thing for a lot of folks who are nine month contracts contract workers which is one of the reasons I think we know so many also concerned about doctor offenders analysis because at this point we said we wanted to have more equitable education but since we have started giving rewards to those school districts that do well and they go primarily to only eight school districts. We're talking about increasing the differences between the haves and the have nots is forced funding is concerned we are sending millions of dollars to school districts who have lots of money and at the same time those individuals we don't are punished because they know that they're never going to be in a or B. school well they can be but they are not yet in a or B. school but the moneys go to the old to the hacks and the have nots continue to have less so I'd like us to look again at that process to make sure that what we're doing is increasing the equity in educational funding and finally alternative learning educators should monitor student academic achievement and annually report progress to desi because I don't want this to become a dumping ground the keys that we just don't want to be bothered with. And into many instances that is so true but since we're spending almost five thousand dollars extra per child we ought to know what ET is that we're getting are they increasing the number of counselors that they're supposed to are they increasing are they decreasing the student teacher ratio as they're supposed to what are they doing with the additional monies that we're sitting there alternative learning education thank you madam chair. Right thank you are there any questions for senator Chesterfield. Anyone have questions for senator Chesterfield. Thank you senator Chesterfield Senator English. Do you want to just talk about your recommendation okay all right of moving down the line I think I have representative Scott free. Thank you madam chair I appreciate the opportunity to share their recommendations I I think that will certainly contribute to the best recommendation possible out of this committee colleagues your act in your packet I've created an infographic that highlights just some of the details in the research behind my two policy recommendations an additional here that was given as well and I appreciate to staff forgetting that out I just wanna say over all a huge thank you to the LR for all things credible work you did in compiling the draft of the adequacy report both of these recommendations are based on what we learned throughout this process and and through that initial draft adequacy report you can see some of my my citations in the infographic referred directly back to that draft that we received so so feel free to look at those two things in tandem the first recommend to a recommendation I wanted this guys is an increase in teacher pay again just I agree with my colleague senator Chesterfield and Senator Elliott as well as many of you in this room the Arkansas teachers deserve a raise and that a four thousand dollar raise is what we should be shooting for in is attainable I'm there for my recommendation is a four twenty five per people increase it if that's exactly right to get a staff to four thousand based on the number of students we have that let's go with that have been used to be a little bit higher for thirty four or four thirty or four fifty that's fine as long as we have an increase that gets us to a four thousand dollar per teacher raised I also recommend that we raise the minimum teacher salary at least forty two thousand dollars and think we can do that if we fund programs like the teacher pay equalisation fund or the teacher compensation program if we continue to provide funding for districts you aren't yet at that newly proposed increase and then that we can provide funding for that and I think again you know we've seen. Not only through the adequacy committee but also through and the advocacy of teachers across the state who are telling us and you know that there are our challenges in the classroom and and there and seeing you know just how and there are recruitment and retention challenges to staying in the classroom and that an increase in pay and what help would help and and knowledge the work that they do would help then you know stay committed for the long term to the career that they love and and I think that that's why what Arkansas teachers deserve especially as you can see as our kind of relative ranking in teacher pay has declined and we're seeing I'm just kind of a an increase in the number of teachers who are expressing concerns about staying in the classroom I think I I I raise and to teacher pay is an absolutely urgent need and that's why and what was my first recommendation I know that many of you agree. My second policy recommendation to is to increase in reform special education funding one thing that really stood out to me throughout and our our adequacy process was this discrepancy between how much school districts are spending on students with special needs and how much designated funding for students with special needs we are funding through the matrix you know it it's five hundred eight million dollars that that districts are spending based on all of the needs kind of comprehensively for students with special needs but the amount of that politician funding that is specifically designated for special education is only a hundred and eighty nine million dollars we also heard that there's not really a silver bullet for special education funding there are a variety of different ways that you can and should even perhaps should fund special education one is the way that we do it by funding special education teachers but we also saw multiple recommendations that say two point ninety jours per five hundred students in the matrix is insufficient as an adequate for the special education needs of the students of Arkansas and so at the Arkansas school board association recommended three point three as T. E. a special education teacher funded the on the practice recommendation twenty nineteen was to do eight point one special education staff members per one thousand students so that would be four point oh five that's for my recommendation comes from for five hundred another option which we heard about as well that was recommended would be to kind of re work the matrix completely for state funding and rather than funding special education teachers it would be to create a new categorical for special education students and fun per pupil in in a categorical instead of in. in foundation funding that total I just special education needs and lastly and per pupil were over a thousand dollars per pupil so if we wanted to kind of rethink it and do it that way we could I think regardless what the adequacy report has shown is that we are underfunding special education in Arkansas and that we need to somehow increase that funding whether that be through the way we currently find it special education which is by teachers currently two point nine as Fund mortar F. T. E. special education teachers and that's fine we wouldn't have to change the matrix just increase the number of sped teachers or we could instead or perhaps in addition but either way we could think about creating a new categorical that provides per pupil special education funding I think another big opportunity as for us to ensure that districts have enough funds for those high cost occurrences and that there is adequate funding provided to buy the dip the Department into districts for those high cost special special education expenses which clearly according to the adequacy report and we just have not provided sufficient funding for that kind of holistic picture of special education students in the state and I think it's particularly relevant as we have the conversation about the sixtieth dollars at and that we make a commitment to fully and adequately and equitably funded special education before we expand the sixty dollars at for students with special needs I'm so with that I'd be happy to take any questions I appreciate the opportunity to make recommendations. All right thank you are there any questions I do I have a question and I think this is something that a lot of us of discussed about you know we have a funding arrest this is a funding model with the matrix and are not a spending model and so a lot of the frustration sometimes comes is that we we increase but the money never really gets down to the teachers and so you know that there's a couple mechanisms that have been created to address that that's why we created the teacher's possession salary fund which you you have in here to to continue which I would agree with but you know another maybe also creating another categorical funds and and I I have a similar recommendation of mine I don't have unless they're really amounts because I know a lot of folks from both the house and the Senate or working specifically on the teacher salary increase and where that number needs to tell a lie so my question is you know have you looked at other states that may be doing those different things and then you also mentioned a categorical fund for special ed which. Talk to me a little bit more about that idea because are you all would you also take into consideration the Medicaid funding that they're able to receive for how do you perceive that kind of being created yeah I think that's an important question I really have not worked out all of the logistics I do know and if I can pull it up and that report because the alert was good to kind of highlight some of those other states to do it that way and to the recommendation that we you know perhaps it was a PA who recommended removing special education from Arkansas spending matrix and instead providing support based on actual special education students served this can be done using either a single wait for all students or multiple weight based on student need so it there certainly are models like that that exist that don't just find the the special education teacher like we do but instead do either a you know flat per pupil per student a special need or a weighted amount based on you know how yeah how much funding or how much support that student would need and I think you know that was like I said that was the twenty twenty APA recommendation not just mine so I think it is worth looking at I also know that that is quite a change from our current you know funding model which is fine if we would rather do the increase within our current matrix which is just up the number of special ed teachers we find. Then we could do that but to your point is that funding definitely getting to schools right is there a way to kind of tighten up a little bit through testing or through rules I think the anything districts you know I had kind of called out we see eighty three percent of district saying they're either in moderate or severe need of more funding for special ed through special education at teacher funding through the matrix so I think that is one way that we could provide that without having to kind of recreate the entire matrix and creating a categorical especially that were weighted I mean that's a big undertaking that perhaps we're not ready for this year well and also that would also allow some flexibility because now it's going to be a different pic after every single year that's right for that school that's right even for that student and for that student that's because you might you you may have a school that has a very very tough situation on their hands more you know with with somebody who has severe special needs me we did and Mountain View and and a fabulous wonderful I mean it was he was such a wonderful student and was great but required a high level of skills to help with all of his issues that he had because he was full quadriplegic and was non verbal and you know but so it required a high level of nursing to to accommodate him and he and it was great I mean it was so fun and we he was and and the bands and I was just dancing with them the other day actually that might events but and so that's an interesting I think concept and one that maybe we should consider taking that out of the matrix and creating an owns categorical funding for that that's what I thought that was a good idea and and I do think you know there there is that section that I think is outside of the major that's for those high cost occurrences like you mentioned and so increasing the funding there is an opportunity to kind of up the funding without having to kind of recreate the entire formula by which we find A do you think regardless you know to me the huge take away without five hundred eight million of expenditures person is hundred eight hundred eighty eight million a designated special ed funding and so are there ways you know to kind of close that gap a little bit more strategically regardless of how we do it right okay very good and any other questions for representative Godfrey. Okay thank you thank you. Okay and then I will see representive Johnson is he here he had submitted some okay so hopefully we can get to his maybe tomorrow mine all go through mine real quick so if you look on your hand out here I. You know I can act I did a few different things and and I can just talk briefly and we I went ahead and plugged in numbers add to the matrix using the worksheet that was provided to us and really just want to highlight the main changes that I think I kind of looked at what I did was really tried to in my recommendation was just to go back to the September sixth meeting that we had were Dr Carlos Silva and it's in your binder under handout D. if you want to reference that but I look back at some of the CPI numbers and tried to really be consistent I know that's what that previous adequacy recommendation try to have increases in those different categories in those different amounts and so I utilized and you can look at those different numbers those different CPI's I do believe that we've got to get away from the. You know funding at. At not finding our personnel a we've got to make sure we do a good job of increasing teacher salaries that also classified certified and classified personnel and making sure that that money gets to those individuals and so for me I think it was just continuing to provide an increase based on yours CPI numbers which is what I think it was it was my recommendation but then I also focused on the Siegel recommendations for the health benefits and incorporating those recommendations into that the matrix where it was appropriate so you can look at and those increases are based on the the single recommendations of a three point seven increase to health insurance for all employees to match Siegel recommendations for medical CPI growth and then the other increase in the matrix would be based on the CPI. And then to continue to do an additional categorical spends in different ways one was to continue to increase the teacher equalization salary fund to get us to the higher average I think that works I think the goal of the legislation would that we sat for that was fifty one thousand dollars we actually achieve that and the new average is fifty three thousand so to me that it worked you know and so continuing down that path I think it's something that's appropriate and something that we should do I also think that we need to have those incremental increases for teacher health insurance benefits be incremental every single year and not health flights by both the districts and by the state and that's really what kind of put us in a bind was that we were not making those gradual increases and then you know you get to a cliff and it's a huge increase which I think working at N. two and having incremental increases are important to me and then the the last as recommendation I think at well I have a couple of others that I wanted to discuss but was to really try to have some sort of a new category goal funds for schools to have some more tools at their disposal and I want doctor Pfeiffer if she can come up and talk a little bit I have talked about creating a new category Fund for teacher merit based pay increases but as we've done some research and she looked at at Tennessee and Louisiana for me and what they have as a differentiating and salary schedule which I think is really what I'm after which gives a little bit more of a flexibility and tools to provide and I think it's something that you could do for both classified and for certified employees that gives them the tools that they need to be able to go. Get what they need so they need to increase the salary for a physics teacher because they can't find a physics teacher then it gives them that ability to do that because I've got to have a physics teacher so they may have to pay that one position more in order to get what they need to get certified teachers in the classrooms and so for me you know that's something that I'm very interested in looking at and creating and so as doctor five for fuel just a recognized yourself for the record in the wheel for state. I have a five for department of education and and. You all talked a lot about and making sure teacher salaries are competitive so we do know that and those starting salaries really do have to be can consider for attracting teachers to the profession but what we also find that districts struggle with their is the retention of staff and retention of those staff who are going to help grow and and two and mentor and to bring in new teachers and and looking at and some different things one of the things we have been successful is getting our teacher residency model launched but part of the success of that residency model which is going to provide new teachers with the work based experience while they're attaining their degree and experience in education is going to have those really high quality well prepared and highly skilled educators to help them along the way so the differentiated pay is about given districts options to not just pay from a and salary schedule based on years of experience or a degree that it in some other factors so I want the states that I looked at it when and Senator Irvin asked a few questions I looked at Tennessee's and and they have actually implemented into legislation that a district salary schedule must include at least one additional component and and that could include any of the following it could include taking on additional roles or responsibilities hard to staff schools are subject areas or a performance based on state board approved criteria so it was interesting to go in and their website actually has every district and it outlines in a very simple way what the district is doing as far as implementing different differentiated pay structures so that was just and something that I had shared with her is as if that and group was interesting considering that. Thank you and one thing for me is it's a focus on certified teachers being in the classroom staying in the classroom and that's one of the things that I think I feel like we have a problem with is that sometimes your certified teachers leave the classroom and go to a different position perhaps and Administration or whatever because I want to make more money I don't blame them but the problem is you know we're kind of backwards we need to take those or they take on additional after duties or whatever we need to make sure that that the school can a can can adjust for that and do it in a way that makes sense and and and I like that has the approval process in there so that you know there's always that check and balance with accountability or whatever with the the department to see if they are actually utilizing the fund the way it's intended to be utilized but for me I just I want to keep the really good teachers in the classroom and I want to really focus on early childhood I really want to focus on getting as many of those are really high skilled teachers in those classrooms from grades one through three are really really one three three is my biggest focus and emphasis because we keep putting lots of money on this backside which is great and I'm please don't hear me wrong I think we have fabulous administrators fabulous principals coaches those things but if you cannot read and you gotta get that under your belt by the time you're in third grade if you can't do that the none of that other stuff I mean is going to work so for me that's really where I want us to focus on is that grades one through three and really trying to push to keep our certified teachers in that classroom and not have them jump you know out of there in into another position I don't blame them at all that's the way we are structured and I don't. Blame them please here that because they're trying to set themselves up for their retirement all that thing you know all of that get it but we've got to make better strides when it comes to our proficiency scores particularly at the third grade level so I light this idea it's something that I would say we would create a categorical funds that was for differentiating salaries a schedule or somehow we would we would do that I'm not sure I'm not there yet that's why we're collaborating today and having discussions with each other today as how that would look ands and see what what how that we would be able to do that because I love I love that model because it makes sense to me that's what you would do in the business world if you have a small business is that how you would have to operate your business so to me I think it follows right in that line with with that are there any questions that are specifically just for doctor fire for. You can raise your hand doctor of representative I mean Senator Sturch. Thank you ma'am Chendar Pfeffer office when asked when you're doing the research that on this different champ pay what are the guard rails as far as do they still have minimums do they still have the steps at all or they kind of doing just a minimum and then averaged at every school must meet where the guard rails are still in place with this different J. pay program. So I haven't done extensive research I can ask our team to find out more from Tennessee and we can we can certainly find out more I know just from looking at different plans from a few of the different schools and the announcmenet very and in some cases they were and teachers that would have to a stop in a thousand dollars that we send that would maybe twenty five hundred or five thousand dollars depending on the criteria and depending on and the role in one that and there was one district that I did say that did look at performance they had a variety of different measures that they looked at so it was it but it really very from district to district and so we could definitely look at their at and state board approved and criteria more details we we don't know then if Tennessee's has required steps or if they have any kind of minimum standards set by the state for every school to follow our is that something else you could also look at. We can look at it we can find out what their salaries it's or if there is one yeah thank you and yes and and and I asked her to give a real high level of this and she was not you know just real high level but again so if you have things if you're okay with that you know that you have questions or we need more information on you know that's where but she may not be able to answer specific questions because I asked her just to do a real high level of this and just to throw it out of the recommendation so that's kinda where we're out so just keep that in mind are you okay with answering a few more questions I can try I think for an and our perspective are our and vision has been to provide opportunities for teachers to lead from the classroom without leaving the classroom and so that's why we would like to know why we've talked about different you have to pay so that's okay so um and then you can ask questions of me as well representative Godfrey thank you senator just quickly Dr pepper I I love that I was a classroom teacher and also let the classroom for leadership positions that I understand this tension very well would have loved more opportunities that are teaching a learning based curriculum based classroom based for for teachers because I know that so many are strong leaders that also love being in the classroom with kids and so I think that's exactly the right track and indefinitely tracks of many teachers experience the one thing I would flag and and then I'm a little bit. Curious about and is just this idea of merit pay in what what is the the criteria that teachers are being judged on you mention you know three things in in Tennessee that you're looking at roles and responsibilities being changed that obviously makes sense to me the M. like the need and in a specific content area or grade level but the third was like state approved criteria and and measurement on those I just want to hear it if that is looking at if teachers are being paid for better test scores or what that really means I know that I mean a lot it gets a lot of teachers heartburn make them nervous especially based on how the criteria is norms is that within the school within the state in the nation there's a lot of concern about what merit pay means because there are so many factors and while I I am wholeheartedly supportive of leadership opportunities and investing in in it And giving teachers the professional development they need to improve I'm for themselves and for their students I do have some concerns just hearing the word merit pay if that means especially when we don't even have a test decided upon and teachers are being paid based on their test scores that is that what you mean is that something LOL yeah I can address that I use that word but my word was really about I used in different various ways because I think you're I think if you are taking on extra roles insurance abilities to me that mayor at two great so there there that's why we we looked at this we were trying to look at different options so I think that's great and I ask just what the definition of merit pay is yeah and and so that was really my word I choose not theirs but I think differentiating salary schedules probably more appropriately titled for all that so that would be from a senator and to add let's see representive McKenzie. Thank you madam chair and I'm happy we're having this discussion districts for this because that's one thing that I know when I spoke with teachers. Merit pay does make a lot of them nervous but also a lot of them saying they all recognize you know. Right now it looks like if I'm gonna make more money I either going to administration or I go get an advanced degree or I waited out there's only so long before I can go with that and you hate to see some of our best teachers being drawn away we know that and I think I'm everyone agrees here that that's the number one thing in education if we're gonna improve and we need to improve. you know care when you're when you're. Finding out your kids going to third grade the number one thing the parent cares about issues a teacher not their friends are in the classroom that's great not even is that the best classroom it's the teacher that makes or breaks it and we're going to see a difference and a change and we need one how can we do that and so I'm glad we're having this discussion a couple questions I know that you're just doing just at a high level so but what as were exploring this one things and teachers committee said to me we would like merit pay if there was a way that it was fair it's certainly the concerns are well what if I get it back you know not a classroom with a lot of challenges the teacher next door as friends but in all those different issues and so what if are any schools I'm curious how Tennessee is doing so you can look and see are they seeing any improvement with the model they're doing number one and number two. Our schools using on our trucks and teachers that friends and other states had some merit paying some of my actually liked it where they draw the the principal in the administration so there's less of the fear of you can help I mean I mean the the odd one out and I don't get you know I may get a rough. Deal and therefore it's harder for me to get at the chiefs America here but if the principal demonstrations part of that then there's incentive for us to treat everybody for it because we all going to go up before going to get this merit pay so as we're exploring those if you don't have those answers right now could we get the weather be LRE or Dr Pfeffer someone to six for that so that we can and keep teachers from understandably saying I'm going into administration or I'm going down the road because I'm working really hard right I don't see a yes the yeah. Yeah and I and that's why I brought it up and that's why we did it my recommendation and so because we got to do something you know to keep them in the classroom and figure out how we best do that I don't have all the answers just and I think we got a look at what's working in other states where where people are comfortable with but I can tell you you know I was in Gainesville Florida and there is. At I just I mean Florida's got some great schools and I have a really good friends that are teachers down there in Gainesville Florida and I've talked to them about what they're doing and one of my friend best friends is that works for the coop down there and y'all if you go bother football stadium. It is eight one stadium that is shared by every single school in Gainesville Florida. And it's concrete and it's old and. But they all share it I mean it's there we there's a difference I'm just going to say that and I'm not criticizing that I showed him a picture of our little football stadium Mountain View Arkansas there like what that's incredible so you know there's there's a difference of of priorities and and there's nothing wrong with having a great facilities but we got have great teachers we got have great teachers in the classrooms and I want to value that I think we have to figure out how we value those personnels and not just teachers but the bus driver that dropped my child off every day at school after school at my at my driveway so don't let don't forget to let every out of the house when you get home that that means a lot to me as a mom that's my dog. You know that the server was very compassionate and caring so I appreciate that input and and again a representative that question. Yes okay. This might be a little bit deeper than we want to go there but but you know the southern states of energy board. Recommended are talked a little bit about career ladders for for teachers in now and that that would they actually mentioned that that was a very important thing as far as keeping these teachers in the classroom I was wondering is have we looked at any of those you know what are the components that I guess salary would be one obviously but what are the other components in there that we could maybe implement also. Well represented we actually already have and started that and representative thought and back in twenty seventeen I think and and ransom legislation that created the opportunity to have a career continuance so we had designations for leading master teachers right now don't. Excuse me I don't have the numbers and in front of me but we have several teachers that have those designations on their licenses but what we don't have or any kind of and salary drivers that really help districts understand here's here are the different ways that I could and should utilize these professionals and then here's the compensation that might go with that and so we we actually have a lot of good foundational pieces right now but you know the policies that go along with that to really get districts to think about implementing just haven't caught up with that so you know that is another reason why differentiated pay you know could work in Arkansas and really does compliment this whole idea at and the teacher residency model where you want your and teachers who really are strong teachers in other content area or grade level working with new teachers and helping them to grow as well. Yeah I love that and get on with it thank you represent back for the question because that was a part of our conversations well senator Chesterfield thank you to be quite honest with you we have different differentiated pay right now the only. Predicated on years of service predicated on education that the individuals that we have differentiated salaries right now different pay what is troubling is I keep hearing about will we ought to pay perhaps more of those individuals who major in physics. And I'm and are in high demand and we ought to pay more for them of those who teach chemistry of those who teach advanced math we ought to give them a little bit more money because of the the need for these particular subjects I guess was troubling me is AS one of those individuals who child in the social studies. My colleagues to child advanced math at an average of about twelve kids. Mine was thirty five. So they were already getting paid more than I was per pupil. And I guess as was troubling with all this conversation we keep talking about because those of us who teach the core subjects English them the social studies which obviously is not being taught now because nobody seems to understand government but it's troubling to me that you would that folks are saying if I'm in chemistry I make more than you do even though I teach twelve kids per period and you teach thirty thirty five per period those of us who teach in those other core subjects are more likely than to go somewhere else with a more appreciated so I think we need to be really careful when we start talking about differentiated pay because when we do that we devalue some. And then we evaluate the others much more hot it may not be what we mean to do but that to me seems to be a part of the problem want to talk to about this cost of living adjustment that the speak that the at the chair the Senate your proposed and I was thinking about what Mr full first was saying about business and the fact that we're in that inflation is happening rapidly. And that he he said something to me and I would ask if the chair would allow him to repeat what he said about that because we're dealing with the employee. And at the center of all of education if you don't have quality employees on staff we're going to lose some and we have bought into this idea of the CPI which may or may not be a good model but it's certainly not going to allow people to keep up with the cost of living and so I'm just I'd like for the chair if you if you would for him to just repeat what he told me and how they were doing in private business and we want to use the business model. A every time we talk about education thank you. Thank you at I don't I don't know if we use the business model every time we talk about education because sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't but but I do yes but Senator fall for you're recognized. Thank you think of. That is behind closed doors but I'll go ahead and share with us at I do think it in education sometimes we do treated a little different and there there is and assess the to treat education different the business but in the business world in the companies that I've owned and sold you have a two pronged approach you have to make sure you take care of your employees if you don't have good employees they don't enjoy working for you they're going to go find another job and I can tell you this I've done several interviews over the past probably nine months where people are leaving education that they're leaving teaching and education to come work in in other areas and we're seeing an increase in that and I think the other prong is that you have to give a the employees the tools necessary we're we're in a situation even in the city of Springdale I'm I'm putting the budget together right now for our city and. It we have we have asked for our departments to reduce the capital requests this year because of inflation and people see the the the pretty number of you know five percent last year or a half percent right now that does not give you the full picture of what is going on our our economy in this country or even the world economy it whenever you combine those two years together really it thirteen and a half percent and that's not even factoring in some of the things that go into the CPI that have gone up thirty and forty percent and I don't know how we can expect for teachers to take care of all of our children if they can go home and take care of their own because they can't support them financially and I think this is a season and I understand we can do it through categorical and I'm still trying to wrap as the new guy here I'm still trying to wrap my brain around a lot of this but this is the year where we have to take care of teachers and you have to put anything else on the back burner. But this is something that's going to be very important we're gonna lose educators in this state and then we're not gonna have to worry about ball feels wrong and to worry about new tire for not going to worry about anything else other than who's going to teach who who will teach these children I think it's important that even even so my colleagues who are pro business that we we realize these are essentially the employees of the state and and we have to treat them as such we have to find a way to recruit and retain the teachers that we have now and not just simply put a bandaid every year of the minimum increase that we can do one of the things that we do we've had a tendency to do is celebrate we're reducing taxes and we're building a surplus the job of government is not to build the surplus is to return the services to the people that you are over whether it's a city a state or the federal government is not to build a store house of money of the taxpayers in part of celebrating the fact that we do have a surplus is increasing the services that we can return to our constituents and part of that is going to be the education so that's what I said behind closed doors at that satisfies. Thank members thank audience thank you well and I think and and I think the discussion was how do we how do we do that within the matrix or the category goals how do we do that and focus on that and again you know my recommendation was really just to try to take care of all the other stuff because we know there's inflation we know that diesel is going to be outrageous we know that you know and then the focus on the health benefit side of things which Siegel made very very clear recommendations to us which I think is important but you know and mine mine is a first draft and it I wanted to come to a consensus and have this dialogue about how we reach that and how we get there because I think we are all on the same page that this is a year that we deal with teachers this is the year that we make those recommendations and focus on that but where do we find that balance from and you know one thing I'm concerned with some of my rules schools in my rule superintendents have share with me their concern of sustainability and so if you go way too high they're not gonna be able to sustain that and might to close their doors and so you got to have some balance there where you find that number and then Senator Sturch and I have discussed you know your veteran teachers on the back end of that where you have a fifteen step right now in legislation on the salaries basis but sometimes you've you've got some schools that don't follow it all the way to the indifference Harmon's so that's another thing where you've got a veteran teachers you know you want to keep them and you want to retain them so it's not just about recruiting it's also about retaining so you know that's something that I think we all together collectively have to come to what how we're going to do that and Senator English makes such a great points if she doesn't mind talking about getting the money directly to who it. Needs to go to do you mind making that comment Senator English I think it's very important. Senator English you're recognized thank you my concern always this is that we do this but then how we can say we're going to pay teachers how do we make sure that we get the money to the teachers which just never seems to get there so if we don't put money into a categorical fund or some some special fund we have no way of making sure that the money gets to the teachers and that that that that I think that's the bottom line for everything we're doing how do we how do we bring them the salaries up but we also make sure that the the teachers get the money because actually in the matrix if you look at it. What we've done in the past we're already at fifty seven thousand dollars a year seventy one thousand dollars a year with the and and I don't know how many teachers are make that kind of money it's but it's in the matrix right now so we obviously have to change what we're doing how we're doing thank you representive Deffenbaugh you're recognized. Thank you madam chair. I guess several questions real quick is that I yes Sir. Okay first of all he I'm interested in in this type of pay is it legal I mean the last time I spent a long time I'm not a lawyer but I'm I noticed in in school law you're supposed to be a look on the salary schedule and so on and makes your to being paid according that set so that have existed in. So I think that's where the legislation can see and for and Tennessee specifically they run into their legislation that a district had to include at least one additional component to that years of experience and degree so. All right. This doesn't just apply to people is just starting in your district as it is chicken it could apply to anybody that's in your district that this supposedly have been judge done well or is it to recruit new teachers or is it both. Senate I don't have all of Tennessee's legislature since I've looked at that carefully I think it the again it's about the concept that and there could be different or they're incensed let me just say in some states there are additional criteria beyond and years of experience or degree that go into salary decisions so that that that's just sharing from there I think all of those details would need to definitely be thought out and and worked out and I know Senator Chesterfield was worrying about valuing one topic teacher more than the other and it's not about that at all and and with our lead in master teacher designation right now that doesn't and focus on you know what content you teacher what grade level you teach you more about where those additional things that you bring to the profession and then how can you be used to and promote the profession expand the profession and be elevated as a professional so again this is more just that high level that we would and that that you all would definitely want to look at more if you consider it okay one of the things and and you know like I say issue this is all right maybe a planning stage but Even when I was teaching what they they used to talk about things like this and You know course each teacher doesn't have equal students. For instance in my case you know I was considered I guess and code so they gave me a lower level youngsters so had he had the judge on that have you judge of where their that person's successful according to you know that this kind of students yes Sir she gets. Thank you again I asked her to give a high level of what Tennessee and Louisiana do and those are details that I think would then be worked out right and then so you said these are. It's basically giving tools to make sure that teachers stay in the classrooms and and that you get good quality folks in the classrooms that are certified and that can stay there retaining those teachers it could be recruiting teachers but it looks differently across the state of Arkansas as we know you may have some areas that really need to focus more on the recruitment side versus retention sought or they may have districts that may want to need to focus on the retention side versus recruitment side or I mean there's there's different ways of looking at that or they may say we we really have a fabulous teacher here we want to spread what they're doing to others let's create a system to where we can help that one teacher do that and facilitate that high level of teaching and skill that they are showing and and they can can teach others around them to do it that way so I mean I think I think the idea is just a very basic idea that I'm throwing out there but all those details as to your points represented Deffenbaugh with some would need to be flushed out during the legislative session through legislation to reach where we need a resurgence Tentatively you know it looks M. either understand have a would it apply to all teachers all teachers would have opportunities to get to get that incentives is that right thank you I now I think I think I would think that would be the idea behind it sure absolutely okay yes Sir thank you any we want we want I mean you want everybody hidden on every cylinder you know what I mean like that's the goal like I want to see every certified yes every teacher every classroom have a certified teacher we need to get there I can't because we don't have that right now but we need to get there and then how do we make sure that they're all operating at the highest level of octane or highest cylinders possible to achieve the greatest success for the students you know how do we do that and incentivized that type of you know Rock high level of success so it's just and to support them you know in what they're doing and how they're doing it and I think for me that's Michael you know how we get there is. All you all the great minds from throwing it all into it together and I think that's how we get there so that's that's really why I wanted to have this meeting the way we're doing that today was to hear all these questions and all this input I think it's very fruitful representative evinced your names on the list thank you senator Elliots and representative Scott. Thank you madam chair and March just kind of a compilation summation comments DO not not regards Dr pepper sauce okay unless someone else has something specific that are in there and I got back thank you okay thank you senator is there's a specific deductible I can get back in okay thank you okay sounds good Senator Elliot you're recognized thank you madam chair I I just I just wanted to put on the table that I think there are we are operating from two premises here that we probably should consider I know that across this nation four years years people try to do something called merit out pay and I'm not bogged down in that boat what the premise I think we need to start from when it comes to thinking about that Reyes is are we already pay enough to even begin that conversation and that's part that's part of what I think we have to solve as one of the things that one of the things that cost that causes so much consternation is it feels like I'm not talking about you Dr pepper I'm just talking conceptually when people start talking about any kind of differentiated pay a merit pay for teachers we generally get there we're in a hole and we really need to pay teachers and and other folks Education as opposed to make in them the priority to start with and I'm not saying this just to be political but before there is a tax break before we are concentrating for example on a surplus I always say I have a surplus to the fighting take care of my priorities so I think that's the issue before we can even start the conversation be sure you're already paying teachers are worth and then people gonna be more relaxed about talking about some other kind of structure. that they can see is fair because there you know I've looked at a lot of. Other countries in addition to states but with a lot of other countries too thank they have both ladders and lattices and the latisys where we need to concentrate with teachers in the classroom I was for ever to of the and recruited by somebody to please leave the classroom come work for me in the first thing they did was dangle money in front of my notes that was it I didn't go because I wanted to keep the Americans doing allow structure will allow me to do that because I'm a really would have loved to have taken on some kind of leadership position that's a lettuce I'm not trying to go up I want to work with teachers but I still want to teach and I think conceptually we need to think about that kind of thing to we just have to be sure even with the lattice structure that I'm not getting picked because somebody really liked me and I don't get picked because somebody doesn't like me those are the kind of issues we have to resolve but I don't think we'll get those resolved until we make sure we're paying people first people just more open and the other assumptions about our matrix if we keep and I am a proponent of this in some ways but we keep. Putting things in categorical. That's based on the premise that once we take let's just say teacher salaries we take teachers salaries Adam the matrix that's based on the premises what's left is going to be enough to run the schools. That's just not true because it won't be one of the reasons the money does not get to the teachers because we are not adequately funding the matrix I'm not trying to sit here and might take up for superintendents or whatever but I do believe in being fair wonder if there's I don't think most superintendent searches predisposed with this gene but I'm just not going to pay the teachers that get into position because we haven't funded the matrix to have to make decisions that's one of the decisions that they make so I don't want us to think because we say there's it's seventy three thousand dollars yeah that's about right. When this if we pay the teacher seventy three thousand dollars and we all sit here and say it's not it's it's not it's a funding matrix is not a spending matrix so that premise needs to be challenged but if we do that everything's gonna be okay because it will not be okay so when we look at that matrix. It was we never we were going to do for one year use of the CPI we're going to do that for one year. And we still do it because the problem is when use CPI we don't ever. Press that against and and create the tension between the CPI and whatnot it's a run and up to run the school to make sure it is we just got into using the and that was never supposed to be the only reason we used at that year because we had just put the matrix in place. And there had not been enough time to do a study so it was just supposed to be a hold over and we got time to do it that was not what it was meant to be and then finally I would say about teacher salaries this is counter intuitive I think somewhere in the eighties Africa and what somebody with with with a lot of the story and have the authority to order forgot who it was but I think that was a ruling that a cost of living adjustment is is not it that's not rates if the cost of living adjustment because Allah does is takes you back to work you gonna raise then you start from where you've done that and that's one of the reasons are nature X. will not be enough to fund the schools if we just take out the teeth the salaries and say now let's go. I don't know that I'm not against it I just owners to fool ourselves and think that we put enough money in that nature both because. We will not have that's all and I appreciate this discussion I think it's when we ought to have because there are ways to Ation of we don't first find the matrix secondly make sure we're already funded the salaries because you are you gonna do is create chaos but the conversation is terrific that thanks thank you Senator Elliot and just. I knew that that representative Cozart and others were working on a tech teacher salary increase to the base and what that would look like Senator English has also worked on that is increasing not base as have others so I didn't make my recommend I did make a recommendation on that just because I knew other people are working on that but. But I do have increases in the matrix for all categories AT and and again mine's a draft I mean we're all about phone or ideas on the table and one thank you senator Fulford did say is we don't need to spend and in adequate time discussing adequacy an education. I think that's a very great points you know so that's what today is about is making sure that were adequately discussing this and throwing these ideas on the table mine may not be the best idea that's fine but I wanted to give us we've got to give ourselves starting points we've got to give ourselves some thoughts and discussions and again I'm the representative Cozart and others in the House were working on specific categories of recommendations I'm mainly focused on you know using a general increase and then learning how we all have this discussion figure out what to do and and I do believe we absolutely have to raise that base salary I just didn't make a specific recommendation for that the so mine would be beyond whatever we decide as a legislative body on what that basis increase looks like my concern from rural schools and speak to rule superintendents is making sure that it's something that fits within their economic reality of where they are located number one and if they can maintain that with their with their tax base with their militias in their tax base so that some of the conversations I've been having around that I'm gonna go back okay we'll let you go thank you so much appreciate that if you have other questions that are specifically for her you can direct them to me and then I can get the information as you request from the department of education I'm gonna go back to represent of eleven. Thank you madam chair and As you said in your opening comments we have worked on this for several months now and so my comments come really is a compilation form many conversations is and had over the last few months and I appreciate you saying that. Representative coast Cozart as members of the House been working on some specific line items I do wanna make mention I appreciate Senator Elliott commenting early on in her in her comments about gifted and talented that I believe that is an important part of our whole education system and I appreciate the acceptance of this joint committee from including those graphs pertaining gifted and talented into the report that died serving in the nature of our education world that we need to make sure we continue to put emphasis on I received a letter a few days ago also kind of paralleling to senator Elliots comments from a teacher in my district and and I was really over overwhelmed at her comments regarding compensation. And is as we all know in our individual businesses across the state there are different types of industry that we represent we were faced with a workforce shortage just about anywhere you turn people are looking for employees. And it she she asked me if I would call or and and and we we had a discussion and and then I went back to the letter and and she talked about how we in me as a business owner what am I looking for when I'm looking to hire a new employee and I said well in my business I'm looking for someone who has organizational skills I'm looking for someone is a good Speaker looking for someone who understands time management and leadership capabilities they're educated they they know how to work with various levels of employees and she said and so it's like to me you're talking about a teacher. When I thought about that I thought how attractive a teacher in their education and all the things that make up a great teacher how that would fit in my business. So I'm curious to just see as we talk about teachers that are leaving the classroom are they actually going out into the workforce. In doing something besides teaching utilizzare utilizing all of those skills and talents that they have in there doing it for a much higher compensation. So Senator Irvin as you'd mentioned again represent Cozart myself several members of the house Education Committee work on some some different line items and so I will I will go ahead and as others have done and kind of share of what our thoughts are recommendations are in these just come from conversations that have come over the last several months I can speak for you before you do that can I check to see if these other members have questions about what we've been just talking about on these recommendations recommendation of the chair and all kind of fits into that Senator Hester Phil did you have additional questions on. Well actually no I want to correct I was. Demands read I'm a keep you on. Senator said no what I'm I'm what I'm interested in I've heard rumors that the house is already made some decisions if that's the case I'd love to hear what they are yes ma'am if that is just rumor I'm sure my colleague Mister Cozart will tell me so if we have if you have to come up with some ideas are you all going to share them with the Senate again or are we just going to proceed yeah I just the I yeah the state yes ma'am yes yes. And then let me start off did you have a question. What's that. Is this the help but I didn't know it was just your individual one four if this is the thinking of the totality of the body well I'm certainly can speak with the totality of the okay you can also we have members who are not here today but just over the last month we talked about a lot of these different line items and what different people feel like needs to be done for their respective districts and so just some notes I put together okay so you're doing some nation or some of what the body on the House scene has yes I am was about so much thank you ACT represent Murdock TDF questions based on what we have been discussing you certainly would you discuss discussing Senate question was okay comment. Do you mind if we let representative Murdock go in there are I mean if it's just okay sure represent Murdock thank you my comment was just simply to what Senator English mansion and others image over there Senator Elliot about the adequacy of process and what we're doing I think a key point that we have to give here to make sure that our educators and others understand is that what that matrix years and but what they don't do. And so the thing that I want you to truly understands whatever we do one sided matrix in a full particular area if it does not adequately truly deal with adequacy for a district the and superintendents school boards are still left in peril what we should do for you and I've been sentenced for so many years I want to just hop on it again but as we do these individual things we have to make sure we truly fun. Adequacy as it should be then you won't hear that Hey we do care teacher's salary but we did get to the teacher citizen English's point in others we have to make sure it gets to where we intend for to go but we can't leave the district with you know we we do we do the teacher but we use leave the transportation short for certain district in our rural district we have they have a lot of miles that the couple so we don't touch that that helps other this bill hurts others so what we have to do is really go to our assessments it'll be our systems that opened in hi Chris and other has done others have done for many years and they do those too assessments district by district to some degree and that we address them and make sure that you have enough. To run you district. And we don't do anything here to call K. I ask for a superintendent or school board at home yeah they gave the money I heard it I heard it I watched it they gave you that money but where's our money well they gave enough money for that but they didn't get enough money for this. So I just want to be clear of the what is in this is a good discussion that we need to have we need to end up with a good ****. Is a good discussion thank you at I appreciate that and one of one of the other things on my recommendation that I did address was technology and we there was that was held flat last time and I included an increase in that technology category because I feel like that needs to be increased and also throughout that you would could add security to technology and security but out and that and that was another idea that represent makes and I had discussed is school safety security maybe that needs to be added as an additional line however. However. We want to be very specific about what we can attain and track with it as a when it comes to security and so that's part of reason I will I don't think I like the recommendation that I made about including the into the matrix because you would be able to track it necessarily I do think you should increase the technologies at part of the matrix funding however cool security and safety we do have the fifty million dollar grant and we've we've been very intentional on how that's constructed and then a lot of us have worked on perhaps a statewide solution that would be funded outside of the matrix or the catechol categorical funding so those are ongoing conversations that I think we need to continue to flush out before we included or incorporated anywhere in here but I I did because you may have different licensee or things like that that are technology related also security related so that's why I think you could ask the technology and security to that definition there on that line item but again those are some conversations that I've been working with with the House members on that perhaps a statewide solution would be outside of education funding in addition to right so city your points I think. You know work this is the basis and so and like I said I knew that representive Cozart represent eleven were working specifically on the teacher salary issue which is why I did not do a recommendation there mine was just a general my thoughts and of of how where we are where we as a staff starting points and the conversations so um and then representative Johnson had also submitted some recommendations and I know he's not here today that represent eleven might can cover that and what he's going to talk about but you can look on this she and look at representative Lee Johnson's recommendations as well okay with that thank you representative burdock now we'll get a representative eleven thank you. Okay shoot pressure there we go. Thank you madam juror you're recognized so to start with will star the top with teacher compensation and certainly something that we all agree I think back during the special session that you know this that there was a whole lot of dialogue amongst both house and Senate members and as house members who I will speak for today we made some pretty strong commitments that we needed to make sure that we walk through the adequacy process and that we would be making a recommendation on teacher compensation in the adequacy report and how we were going to oppose the funding for that I've heard the different recommendations today I believe one of those trips from representative Godfrey was for a number of four twenty five eighty M. and and while that does on the top side address the four thousand dollar increase per teacher that being certified in the classroom and not in the classroom those you have to certification of what that doesn't do is and I I relate that back to my business I know when I tell my employees that they're going to get a raise of acts that's what they expect again but obviously there's a whole lot of the line items that come underneath that and and the net is not really where they force had foresight for could be nor where I intended to be so we would propose that that ADM number before fifty the what that would do would be there would be a net the end of the four thousand dollar to the teacher and the cost of the benefits the insurance taxes and so forth that roughly twenty percent would be on the top side of that the somewhere in the neighborhood of forty eight forty nine hundred dollars total but the net would be four thousand each teacher also include in that because we want to make sure we're taking care our classified employees as. Well the server very very important part in the in the school system would be to put forty four dollars eighty am for their pay that would what that would do would be a two dollar per hour across the board for every classified employee within the district their insurance is kind of a is called it a little bit different that needs to be listed out separately so we would have to include a thirty seven dollar a DM in to take care of the classified employee health insurance speaking of teacher insurance now wants to go back to the days back where we've had a a hosted EBT meetings revamping the way the teacher insurance state employee insurance retired teacher insurance is handled one of the things that we put that we put out on the table was at our school districts would be responsible for three hundred dollars per employee that was part of a plan and some of you may have received some feedback in the district for how we gonna pay for that and we promised them that we would be putting that money in there so that it would just be a pass through and so we would need to put a line item in their increase that teacher insurance funding to thirty six hundred dollars instead of where it is now roughly three hundred dollars a month times twelve months to cover that cost it's a pass through our school districts just so that they're part of the teacher insurance state care of and then going forward I think Senator may have mentioned it is tying that then going forward once we get that levelized it's kind of been all over the place the last few years within tying that to the medical CPI so that we've got a good balance to make sure we're not getting ourselves with that teacher insurance fund in peril us bad it's been mentioned that conversations with the Department about what is it actually cost we continue to kind of throw darts on the wall we put money into the spread catastrophic for. One that's covering those costs they're above of which normally because some of our most fragile students that needs specific care what we have learned is we've been anywhere from twelve five to fifteen that actual cost to the Department runs at around seventeen million per year so we would need to increase that number up to seventy million to make sure that we're covering that going forward. PD is a is a hot topic currently we fund PD at forty one dollars ADM in discussions with the Department there's about three million dollars that is built into that a and into that PD line that the department uses that that we're providing the funding the Department funds that back to a ET and to provide the P. D. for our districts across the state and so the Department instead they can pull that back out of the matrix they can take that three million dollars but that back into the Public School Fund take care that contract directly between them and AT and and what that does is it allows us to leave that PT line of forty one dollars flat and not put an increase on it to cover that cost what that does is actually puts that incremental amount of money back into your school districts to allow them to have more of that forty one dollars to use for actor additional PD are additional PD which could be specifically used if we wanted to for enhancement in in reading intervention and helping us get our literate literacy scores up someone mentioned transportation while ago we all know the cost of fuel the cost of tires the cost of buses because of a bus right now is up between thirty and forty percent what it was two years ago so we've got to put some additional funding in their in the transportation fund to help our districts with that cost. so I'd aligned it is been debated quite a bit is is is are the supplemental PD also known as what we are funding for our PLC program across the state that number has increased over the years we are in a position now where we believe that that number can remain somewhat flat going forward because those cohorts have did have graduated you've got more out into the system now kind of training the trainer but we also we wanted to make sure that we were sustaining what we had had grown from and so we would recommend five hundred thousand dollar increase into that. Bringing up the salary increase with a four thousand dollar raise what you're doing then is is is you're bringing all of those schedules up and if you remember back when the governor proposal back couple sessions ago was to also increase that median wasn't just recreate increase in the basement increased the median and we put the funding in there to do that the campus and some of our schools all the clear because there wasn't the sustainability money to do that and so we put fifty million dollars twenty five million per fiscal year end of that to be able to offset what we're proposing an increasing those salaries now we would need to increase that for fiscal year twenty four to fifty to a million and then for fiscal year twenty five to sixty million that will help us bring that median up also help us increase the starting salary from thirty six thousand to forty thousand. just a couple of the thoughts in and then I'll be happy to try to answer any questions I think we need to take a long hard look at how we are funding a L. E.. And how those programs are actually designed I know the department is looking at this already but that's something that that we're going to have to work together look at how a day is structured look at how it is funded and I think work with the Department help bring that up and help us better serve that population students and then as the senator mentioned she has kind of taken the point a position for us on school safety and working with the commission that was appointed by the governor ownership that involves many meetings of that I think they are or very close if not ready to lay the plan out kind of going forward we have set aside fifty million dollars to help with a grant program for the schools to enhance our school safety but we also think that we're going to need to that that that from an education standpoint maybe it's strictly through technology Senator Irvin mentioned is setting aside an additional twenty five million in FY twenty four and twenty five million in FY twenty five that could help further enhance those grants for those districts that are just close to being able to move to the next level bringing their a school safety up but yet maybe just falling a little bit short so with that I know is a lot said but I believe that that this is just a a good compilation from a lot of members who have a lot of vested interest in their districts and they see what the needs are other districts back home and how we as a joint committee can help move education forward thank you madam chair. Senator Chesterfield. Thank you and as always good job representative intends. Thank you so much I just have some questions when we talk about the four thousand that right now it's thirty six thousand is that correct. So what you're aiming for a minimum salary of forty thousand is that we do that yes okay and I guess was troubling to me about it is Mississippi's bank forty one five. How does that get us to where we can say thank god for Mississippi. And we're only going to go to forty I'll still go across the bridge and make more money in Mississippi probably and Louisiana Oklahoma and the surrounding areas we have prided ourselves on being at least at the median average of the southern regional state how do we get to the forty one five where's the rest of that gonna come from. Your okay I'm so sorry thank you months of. I think we're taking a big bite out of out of that big elephant that's been in the room I think Mississippi gives us a whole lot of the reasons for that is to be thankful that there for and we're we're going to take this one one step at a time we're including a lot of additional funds to help offset some of that as well as far as the insurance cost raising that minimum raising that median providing that additional funding to our districts to make sure that they're able to sustain this awfully CS moving that forward in the next biennium. I see well I'm sure that the other states and I understand you know what we decide we're going to catch up or not it is a step in the right direction but it gives me great angst and we start out behind. And and I don't think that's a good place for us to be known it but I think unfortunately we we've been behind for for me for several years and I think we took a is as a joint committee during the last study we we took a more aggressive approach than we had in the I'll be ten previous years and this isn't even much larger by detected that elephant I think we're steadily moving that way and if we continue to be as fiscally sound as we have been as a state over the next two years I see us making an even larger body that the. We'll we'll agree to disagree on that because if you start out behind you stayed behind in this my greatest concern could you tell me then what the two dollars per hour for classified with equal to is for salaries concern what is it moving as from where to where. What's the number we moving from eleven dollars to thirteen dollars thirteen dollars to fifteen dollars was the dollar average going to get us to a I don't know that that's data that we have that the department would be able to supply us with we may be able to get that from B. L. R. I think that number all of the state is probably different you've got some positions that pay eleven dollars an hour and for the for the same job you know fifty miles down the road they may pay eleven fifty an hour I guess I'm concerned because of that one of the things that continues to bother me is. We're losing people. You're losing a bus drivers we took away the benefits of a hat. Which is one of the reasons we lost that they were no longer eligible for health insurance which is one of the reasons that they became bus drivers we had previous in the game bus driver so that they could have the benefits that came with that and that's one way now we're talking about two dollars per hour and we're not quite sure when it gets as when they can go down the road making dollars somewhere else one more snapping fifteen Bucks an hour so they can go say good morning welcome to Walmart and make more money in the campus but what fifty sixty kids right behind them so if that's troubling to me the fifty million dollars that you're talking about going to each school district to help bump up stuff what is it will per school district I'm sorry could you repeat quite yet you remember you said that you had fifty million dollars you gonna do for twenty five million one year twenty five the next what does that get us for school district on school safety. No no not that the school safety was another fifty million in the year teacher equalization yes the equalization thing so that so we had previously for FY twenty to protect what twenty one or twenty two we had put twenty five million dollars per year into that equalization fund and that was to assist those schools to get their median who were not able to do that on their own what we would be proposing in this is to move that number for FY twenty four to fifty two million and the FY twenty five to sixty million could you tell me how much. Per school district I think that would I don't know that there is a defined answer that it would depend upon the city needs of those districts are where they are on their salary schedules. It depends on where they are so we're not talking about dividing this equally on this now I think that everything today. And so you're talking about equitably dividing and talking about equalization yes ma'am well now it is gonna be equalisation. Does that mean everybody's million I was saying my money I think it's it's strictly comes back to the equitable I think they're it somewhat interchangeable Gandhi what we gonna be equitable I ACT mail. This that's not our decision we can provide the funding but it would be up that local school board to decide exactly half where they're going to move that needle okay thank you that is ma'am that would be is sixty two million dollar increase. Fifty two fifty two in FY twenty four yes ninety five but we so before we had done twenty five and twenty five cents sixty two million increase for that yes do you have a do you did you do you have a total of the total increases. Blake per per ATM what your total total so total increase per ATM based on this does on the salary projections will run two hundred thirty four million. Okay what about. And then going forward after that the different recommendations that I saw in the feedback received or somewhat in line with that the the one point eight two percent to two point for going forward it's just to take that take two hundred thirty four million to go back into FY twenty three and get that raise between January and June thirtieth two thousand twenty three which is what we told our teachers across the state that we would do right so I'm just saying how much so that's just your one category the other increases that you've included does not include the teacher equalization fund increase that to thirty four or is that just so that would access to the back I don't have the total number okay things are. These are just all very stiff recommendations to be given okay said yes and so that would be quite to like right now we're at a little what seven thousand something her ATM do you have that number to the do you remember the movie to eighty one twenty nine. Eighty one twenty eight eighty one one eighty one twenty eight eighty one twenty eight one thousand one hundred. Twenty eight twenty eight okay. And then okay and then you do you adopted the single recommendation basically off medical CPI and then but keeping it at three hundred not the incremental increases right we need to do the three hundred currently to meet at a EBD yeah a requirement then going forward I mean it just be my recommendation going forward and we tested medical CPI to it just just so it absent flows again make sure we're not getting behind our funding on that yeah okay are there any other questions first representative eleven representative Scott free. You're recognized thank you senator thank you representative eleven I think I heard you say this at the end I wanted to clarify that time line on that teacher salary increase are you saying that you would envision that happening in January for this current school year so. Bill proposed in January passed in January with an emergency clause teachers are paid out four thousand for the remainder of the school year yes and we would need to do we could do that as as like an addendum to the contract that way the contract will not be opened it would be an addendum that would go on the backside to go ahead we need but we need to do that through legislation and what that would do then is with the emergency clause would be the appropriation and funding the departments of the department however long it took you somewhere I would project and March April may somewhere in that neighborhood then that districts would have that money to go ahead and make retroactive back give those increases and then that money then would be on the salary schedule going into the twenty three twenty four school year okay I I appreciate that sense of urgency in there there are a lot about the recommendations that you mentioned that I'm excited to look at more in depth and I know that those came from a lot of hard work in conversation a lot of strong advocacy said thank you for your response of leadership there do you have a a copy of those recommendations is that something we're gonna look at today or tomorrow I would love to just kind of Dick and too if you'd and you'd mentioned. Welcome read my notes years I tried to scratch those damn perfect thank you D. do we I mean to your point do you all want to work that into a worksheet like we like some of these recommendations warns and to the right to the worksheet. Actually we'll have it set up on a regular matrix. She I just wear a lot of things that came pretty quickly and a lot of things that that sounded good just want to kind of take a deeper dive in and look more in depth than if that's what our agenda is for tomorrow that's great now coverage you check inspection any time thank you and then Senator English I think also has some recommendations that we can just discuss tomorrow yeah. represent murder. Okay structure questions to the chair I think up with boldness. Well that's a good question not something that we've been able to conference about I mean to me I wanted to be able to have these discussions in this dialogue that's the way I think it was. The on this that we have to have this the statutory day is I believe November the first November first that's not quite correct we have to we have reported by the fifteenth of October. And that report is prepared and sent out by November the first that's the really the deadline but. Normally I was speaking to us this is just me normally we do this on the first of the month when we do our two days in October we make that the designation of what we can do that's normal. Okay so a couple questions on the drill down represent and as if I can't find my so at this to pick it back a little bit on this is Senate Chesterfield mansion and what this discussion she yield so as we ask questions about what will this do to somebody so the the inclusion of other districts across the state the two hundred plus whatever districts in addition we have. How do we you come to a conclusion that whatever we decide you decide about the teacher may that's been a highlight this very necessary we need to get that done but the other items because of that money goes to the metric and go up to matrix goes out to the district in India heard somewhere else then that's with the the chaos cook because they got to survive so they use money to do different things if teachers don't get what they've heard about then that's a problem we don't want to cause problems so you know how we knowing where these dollars going to do for. A school district. Are they part of your process. Their input to say okay this is what you would do for me don't really escalate me it don't really help me is something that you did because we have an opportunity in my opinion with the surplus dollars that we have. In this state we have this opportunity to truly all made this adequacy. As we should. We've never done it as we should but I think we have a chance. So are we. Addressing real needs. I know what to do to pay but in other areas as a lot of candles. Are you come to that. I think that is is we have to have been discussing this for for months we we are very much aware that the needs across our state very depending upon district depending upon region but of everything that we have discussed over the last nine to ten months the the topic that just keeps coming back up the the big headline maker has been salary benefits to our teachers you know I talked to a superintendent back a few months ago we were talking about the recommendation for the bonuses in this particular superintendent said we were going to use that money to to build a new band room and we're gonna built we we have not had a new cafeteria since nineteen sixty two I believe I don't know how we as a state. How we can can how we address all of those individual specific issues I know representative Cozart being a building contractor I believe you are as well we know right now that what that that we're an inflationary period we're building costs are higher than they've ever been and so from a partnership standpoint we've got to address those things it facilities I think that each of each of these different items that that that that that I've I've put out the dresses some of that but I don't have an answer to how we can address each individual districts needs from from a standpoint of just money. Thank you okay representative McKenzie I'm a keep you hot representive often eleven just so you have a question Ferguson McKenzie. Thank you madam chair and thank you represent eleven I like a lot of what you said and you know what someone gonna say here a couple questions maybe whether we can get this information for tomorrow I guess run continuous Gus and vote tomorrow sounds like. Well either way if we I'm trying to give you my opinion and I I I don't I'm not prepared to vote yet because I haven't seen anything on paper but represent Cozart might want to vote tomorrow I particularly don't but again we've not really had discussions with each other about that process yet so I've tried to have that but we're going to continue to forge you know down the path of making sure that recommendations are given the ability to discuss and present which is what my plan was for today and then kind of what the the Committee decide where you want to go that's that's what I'm trying to do with with the Senate okay well a couple things at least if we're trying to decide what the right thing is to do because we want results we do this year after year after year we've looked and where we are and we need to improve and so as I'm looking these different things I'm thinking what's going to make us better what's not I know it's a tired record but I'm a record I'm a keep on singing because I think it matters I would suggest and help first of all information can we find out with this schools I know that they already had a lot of this funding already committed this who is able to get those raises who wasn't just curious I think it's helpful to know how we did across the and I understand that there wishes for the schools and with the with the the bone and the what else he recommended I'm curious on how many schools were able actually come through okay with that bonus would be helpful to know just for fairness and just understanding how successful was that a tent number two the disparity in our rural more porous poor schools with the tax base and I know that's a tough thing to fix but the problem is never going to go away and so I hope that we can continue I've reached out to a number of mine rural districts and other superintendents and school board members how can we do this. How can we help to address this and then the third is we're looking and what we're gonna do is some I think or some good ideas here. And the Senate just a bill brought up the fact that you know we're still going to be you know hello Mississippi. that seventeen million in PD or solution tree. And then we've got I think what. What we do in member student with further reading. If we're doing thirty six hours is what the state is required. Attorneys twelve hours. Trucks are still being executed defenses are still being mounted across the state our legal system is not imploded because we all required twelve hours of attorneys and I pointed this out. I maintain my law license for thirty two years have a practiced. I love my teacher license lapse decades ago I never renewed because it's too much of a pain. In we want to bring teachers we want to bring we want to keep on why are we running I'm off do we really believe if we didn't spend the seventeen million with solution tree and if we cut back that PD to one third and use that money for more teacher salary. Do we believe really. We were coming here next year you all come here and you would say what I'll look hello imploded the floor dropped out because we I don't believe that I don't believe we saw they came in and gave us the research they gave us the data. There was no difference. Between the schools who had solution tree and it didn't and I've seen where the states go all over the map the card at one point we were required a lot more PT now we dropped back to thirty six I think most districts require more but I guess I would like to see us put our money where we think we get the most bang for the Buck we know we're having a trouble the teacher shortage we know we want older the best and we want to keep them. I just want to see is put every bit of any that we have into the bucket that I think's going to make the best improvement and our teacher scores I think all of our picture should be put on the Education Committee we should just be put right there by the newspaper when they put out those test results because I think we need to have ownership of that and I sit there at that may I do not want to see another year of this and so what ever we do let's have the mindset of is this going to improve our reading and our our letters I hope that our skills math the things we care about so that's why making a pitch for and again the disparity schools I know it's hard I can't figure out the answer is but I know it's a problem that's hurting our kids throughout the state when certain schools no they're just a training ground and when they get a good teacher out of school out of college once there they realize how good other district rice how good they are they're going on how can we help. Those school districts that's why I'm trying to free up some of this money that I think might yield better results so those are three things I hope that we'll discuss tomorrow maybe remedy some sure no I appreciate that I think I think that having not focus and an understanding you know we're making a recommendation. But we also have membership that's not on these committees that are going to have to understand that spend and how it's gonna work with everything else right so. Where do we focus where can we get the biggest bang for our Buck where does that need to look like what is that need to be and so I agree with your comments there like how can we be the most effective with their spins and be more intentional and focused about it where we think it's going to actually heal the results that we need which is improved education I think that's teacher salaries focusing on recruitment retention of certified teachers in the classroom and giving them the tools that they need to be successful and licensure is a big issue and I'm glad that you brought that up you know and I think those are good Qualcomm First Nations questions we have to have and how we're going to spend this money out throughout this matrix or or gonna focus this or we gonna put more towards these kind of cruel funds that are working in order to create new ones to give them those tools to focus in on that intentionality and and I think that was part of my recommendation other people's recommendations as we go forward so I appreciate the conversation appreciate the dialogue and appreciate all that no I appreciate the folks that turn these and by September twentieth so we could have something printed out for everybody to kind of look at and digestion and and so we'll try to get everything on paper as much as we can as we go forward for tomorrow's meeting and and then it's up to this committees I mean how we want to proceed you know on on on the recommendations as we go forward at the that's the fairest and the best way I know how to do this. As senator Chesterfield you're recognized thank you madam chair. Of. To the chair to representative eleven. At. Senate elevens are these the recommendations from the House ID Committee you guys have a meeting of the house and I came up with these recommendations or is this your brainchild that you're sharing with us. Go ahead just turns you off. I'll put you right back on the just one moment. Okay I will let you at the no ma'am the house Education Committee has not been on this as I stated in just my opening comments that as we look through nineteen months of these reports and various comments that have been made and just putting a pencil to and see how we can meet the different recommendations that was just compilations and ideas that came forward okay so you keep you keep saying we is there a way that you can share with us now just Frances representative Vaught could not be here today representative Johnson not be today he's on the west coast on business and so he had made some recommendations and the report that you have in front of you but he and I also had better than our conversation just talk about he had a lot of ideas regarding A. Ellie and about state spending passion about that things I think you'll be working on the coming session so there are several of the who got together no magistrate in just conversations I've had with multiple members. We have to get together and talking. I'm just you know anyway. That's what I'm saying it you have to talk so that that's not that but meant to be a D. no no ma'am it was meant to find out what the process was to get you to these these very cogent recommendations some of which I agree with some of which I do not but then that's the whole process so I'm just trying to figure who the brain trust laws they came up with it or was it just your individual brain trust as on I was trying to find out thank you very much. Represent Diffenbaugh. Thank you madam chair I this is just a cement up for clarification. I thank senator Chesterfield said that if you say the average starting salary in Mississippi was forty one five. When you. I think that's what she said is that right yes Is have Chesterfield I'll let her answer for hers is what I read in the news that Mississippi raise just starting salary to forty one thousand five hundred dollars. Well I'm. I'm not correct then the people in the department it can certainly correct me but that is what we were told well I just read where they just had read were in September so this last September they're starting their starting average hours like twenty seven thousand. And this top in the in the first twenty five percent in the twenty five percentile was only a little over forty thousand I'm not trying to be argumentative but I but I focused on that. Hi this is. Thank you. this money came from the moneys that we chose not to spend on teacher salaries it didn't happen in September was. All I know is that Mississippi said we are going to raise starting salaries for teachers to forty one five if it's a lie they tell it okay and then it all right thank you. Second. The representative. Okay sorry or representative eleven you're recognized it also when you look at whatever we propose for a Cola going into FY twenty going into twenty four that will raise that forty thousand up also so you take some in take a number between say two point five. To the Cola then that would raise that starting number up to at least forty one and so there we would be a whole lot closer Mississippi to satisfied Senator thank you. I. That's fine and Senator fall for let me go to senator Chesterfield she wants to respond to Centerra representive eleven about a month ago Hutchinson initially proposed raising teacher salaries to a minimum of forty six thousand in implementing at least a four thousand dollar salary increase under Act one seventy of twenty nineteen the minimum salary and is thirty four thousand nine hundred and in twenty twenty one twenty two into school year and will increase to thirty six and twenty twenty to twenty twenty three school year department of education secretary Johnny key has pointed out that going into the twenty twenty to twenty three school year base salaries in Oklahoma Missouri Tennessee and Mississippi are all higher than Arkansas and Mississippi just increase this base salary to forty one thousand five hundred dollars along with an approximate eighty five thousand dollar salary increase for every teacher last month Senate president pro tempore Jimmy Hickey Republican Texarkana set it adjourned sensible proposal would cost about three hundred thirty million to implement and I don't see we get anywhere close to that so that's why I got that. Okay well what we can do is ask miss Holt is she wants to provide some information for us tomorrow for clarification purposes if that's a recommended or requested as senator full for. Thank you Mrs chairwoman of I wouldn't want to see if we would be able to provide the recommendations in document form it's kind of hard to keep. Keep track or scratch pads here and surely there's some inaccuracies on these as well as for trying to keep up of it it It there's a lot of preparation that went into this and providing these other documents to everyone I wasn't able to know what was going to be recommended I know others were of I think it be appropriate to have that documented for the frustrations I think people having government is whatever we tried her in passing so that we can see what's in it and I would I would request that we have ample time and as you references I had said earlier I would hate to have an inadequate amount of time to discuss adequacy of so I think it be appropriate to have this by tomorrow and and then potentially even divide the vote so that the house could vote on their recommendations they've had time to study and then the Senate would have ample time to study their vote as well. Thank you senator for for. Senator Elliot you're recognized just a question of madam chair can we Get these recommendations that everybody made on the website so that you know the public can see the recommendations as well they might have some good feedback force and. I'm not sure there may because some of these are in draft form and not they're all not consistent with one another so if they were all put in tight inside of a worksheet like we had then I would say yes that right now these are just really draft recommendations that I think until we get to a final and I want to cause more confusion that may may or may not exist representive Cozart you're recognized here I have a copy coming for everyone of our draft recommendation if you would like to see that I'd be glad to let that go out it was just the grass and it has exactly what represented eleven just told you on it it's very easy to read matrix draft and and. Yes we can do today what will I I'm asking about it be and a post because everybody is just going to I have worn myself out responding to people who are asking and and they are right for asking I just thought it would make sense if we could have it on the website people understand I think they will understand when you put up there recommendation so we could do it I just think it would be a valuable service for especially the folks in the schools who are going to want to know. I'm. Share again to anyone the draft recommendations not put those on the web because or not recommendations right and we have this problem a couple years ago we put things on the web and they didn't like him and we started getting all these calls and got slammed from a lot of different people specially superintendents at that time because they thought that was gospel it was not is just recommendation to we meet and we you know we know watermarks if we put draft across to pay across the page article I understand that's a. Not always and the fact that well I I don't know I guess I don't. I mean that everybody else has a sense of fragility but if I'm going to say something and put it out there and discuss it I I just don't see the. If people have something to say about it that's kind of the public's right. At which is why we're live streaming and why they can attends which they are and and and like I said I I I would decline that right chairs I mean I can't I appreciate this and I I like to do what you don't want to supply I appreciate that but again these are drafts and I want people to be able to submit their ideas and we need to be able to flush these ideas out dot talk about and decide about them and you may change somebody may change their draft based on the conversation that was had today during this meeting so you know that that's where I feel like it's important so what we'll do is you know make sure they will have some will have everything out for again for tomorrow and some some folks may want to change something in their draft which is appropriate so they want to do that that's fine too representative Murdock you're recognized. I wanna make sure we hear the same thing so are we hearing that the membership. The Committee even. Outside of the the group that has done a lot of hard work on this but the members have to vote on this may not be ready in the time frame of the I think would represent Cozart C. that we maybe under statutorily depend on what interpretation that is and then two was sent L. see it happened the public you have a part to die justice and then have input in this then that. What what part of that Cozart if I may what part of that. Is egregious to us that part of them happy because they got to live with this so there is that part of the discussion debate whatever for the public. Yes what we're gonna do that we should honest two months ago or maybe we should that I'm not gonna on we have held a lot and we can get we and we got way behind and we're behind now so if we don't have this out we have to November the first to have this recommendation to the governor or if it is hi number what it is but is not good. So Senator Irvin. You said you're saying tomorrow you don't you know ready to vote maybe if I don't know I'm trying to make sure that we have an adequate enough time for people that are members of these committees to be able to put for the recommendations and that's have a fruitful dialogue about so we I think that's part of the process well I mean I'm happy to call a meeting at whatever time we need to later this month or whatever I'm fine with that if that's the what the membership wants to do that I'm not sure can we statutorily due at the as long as I mean that there is already a draft report that we've already seen we just have to plug the numbers into the attic with the worksheet correct so so you know I don't want to feel like we have to rush into this but that's my opinion I'm just the chair of the Senate Education Committee and we might my Senate Education Committee needs time to be able to to to discuss we should have time to discuss and have dialogue about this whether it's you know whatever and and to me I'd love to see collaboration where we kind of figure something out together and move forward I think I'd be cool and be great but I think those things need to be discussed which is why I went down this path today so we could get input in here comments and to me that's the way the process should work I'm a I'm a committee person I like committees working I like having a process because there's given there's take but there's also you've got people in different parts of the state of Arkansas where you know. A a a starting salary of of this is going to be cool and good and acceptable and maintained and all that in another part of the state they're going to go I can't do that you know so we've got to reconcile all these things you know across the states so to me that's the process that I'm trying to take but again I will yield to the members of my committee which is my job my responsibility to see how we're going to approach this and how we're going to go down this path can we have a legal clarity question can we X. B. O. R. tells of statute yes of the time the if if B. L. R.. What does eighty you know what I mean. I don't know. Right Taylor lord with a pure of Legislative Research so under the statute as you guys have mentioned before we have the report that has to be filed no later than November one of each year before the convening of the regular session so that's this November first what must be in that report. Reports of the findings and recommendations and within that same subchapter there are specific things that have to be included within the report. Serveru. So there are certain things that have to be included which is all part of the adequate adequacy report and study that we've done over the last few months but you can also amend the report so you guys did that a few months ago as well with regard to the health insurance I believe it was so you can amended so the simple question I have are we under the route time restraint that we're hearing today that we must do something. By tomorrow the fifteen that we must is that is that what I'm here I'm here the statute just says the report by November first my number however you guys decide how to do that is up to the discretion of this body but otherwise November first is your deadline thank you. Representative makes. Thank you manager and I'm just going to kind of follow up on this discussion we all need to remember that this recommendation is not the final gospel. What actually gets implemented will be the decision of the ninety third General Assembly so even after we make a decision that's not the end of the discussion nothing is written in stone until legislation is passed in January so there will still be time to continue any discussions and in the past there have been times where the House made a recommendation the Senate budget completely different recommendation coming into that November first deadline and so and then we get the session and then those have to be ironed out so just because we. Make a recommendation November one we get a session we can do something completely different right so just a reminder that this recommendation is simply just recommendation to the next general assembly and nothing is written in stone of the discussions can still continue until we get into session next early next year. Thank you represent I've got free you're recognized thank you madam chair and again I just want to say how much I appreciate you taking the time today to let those of us who made recommendations present them get feedback on them compile them but also somebody who did make those recommendations it does feel like to me you know I have. That's what I think is best but I also understand that there are recommendations that are more holistic than mine where I can pick my top two priorities looks like represented eleven has been doing work that's more comprehensive to me it does feel like of a sensible next step up to two tomorrow to look at those more in depth but to continue the work of kind of digging in collaboratively questioning looking at things line by line staying where those of us who did make recommendations see our recommendations come to life in those. And that presented recommendation or where there may be some disagreements but to me and I stand not the chaired the committee so I I I you'll take two girls decision but as somebody who did take the time to come and present a recommendation which I very much appreciate it does feel like the next step makes sense to do the work of digging in to that more kind of comprehensive look and so I just personally as a member of the committee feel ready for that but I also know that if we have a robust discussion tomorrow morning and don't feel ready to take a vote maybe at that point we decide we need to call another meeting next week or whatever but I I don't see any reason to not at least Dicken have the same kind of dialogue have these you know these discussions based on the individual recommendations we made based on the comprehensive recommendation that has has been presented and just keep doing the work three your vision and in the way the committee process should work at I love that and agree and and what I think we're ready for that next step now if we find by eleven thirty tomorrow we're not ready to vote then we can go from there but I would just you know offer encouragement as somebody who did bring to concrete recommendations I feel ready to move the discussion into that next phase if obviously the rest of the committee felt like were there as well. Thank you senator Chesterfield you're recognized yes I'm always concerned about this hearings to. And even though basically I'm an auditory learner but I know if it's not in writing it doesn't exist so I do need to see what has been said. And I think that if we are to vote on this we need to at least have set the opportunity to look at it read it whatever and I'm sure that representative Evans is put it together in a form that we can all readily understand so I would just ask I'm sure sorry been asked before but I would ask again that we be able to see that in writing and be able to discuss it so that we can iron it out if not I'm not prepared to vote on it tomorrow thank you. I think that's yes noted forthcoming and and on my recommendation on the differentiating I'll get more information for everybody for tomorrow include the statute from Tennessee as well just to look at and then and then I think it also would be helpful to pull back the single recommendations which I think are consistent with what I'm recommending and what you are recommending so we'll get those out as well the single record there in your binder but we'll just pull those specific ones out I think would be appropriate. And all right Roger yeah should you is going to pass out or recommendation so everybody will have it tonight looking over okay that's what represented the eleven and the House Committee has okay come up with and I need to approve I need a motion to approve the September sixth meeting minutes. And second those in favor say aye and oppose ayes have it and those minutes are approved all right is there any other business to come before the committee. No other yes Senator English as you have a question right okay thank you with that we are adjourned.