State Agencies & Govt'l Affairs- House

Representative Wardlaw. Sponsored thirteen oh seven is not in Rome. Next item on today's agenda is house bill sixteen thirteen represent you McCollum. Representative McCollum. Sponsor is not in running the next item on today's agenda is Senate bill two ninety two. Senator stone. Can you hear the. Representative could be here or president of. Senate bill two ninety two. Thank you chair thank you Committee. Senate bill two ninety two is part of the election integrity package that seeks to amend the compensation and said the minimum payment threshold for county election commissioners goal this bill to help alleviate turnover in our election commissioner positions by making the pay scale commensurate with other election official positions such as poll worker and site captain. We know that services election commissioner carries great responsibility that's not something to be taken lightly requires a lot of time and dedication it's a stressful position ensuring that the election is handled legally professionally and with integrity we need dedicated transparent and trustworthy individuals to be in these positions. Currently commissioner C. twenty five dollars per meeting per election with no cap on the number of meetings. This bill would set a minimum payment threshold of one hundred and twenty five dollars per meeting but there will be a cap set for a maximum of ten meetings per election at that rate of pay. If the commission needs to meet more than ten times the meetings over the number of ten would revert back to the current rate of pay a twenty five dollars per meeting. Additionally we see election commissioners working long hours outside the scope of their official public meetings. They could be at early voting sites in the precincts on election day troubleshooting any issues and assisting poll workers. This bill may enable commissioners to receive an amount of pay not less than fifteen dollars per hour for work conducted outside of a public meeting with following stipulations. They will not be paid for more than forty hours per election or the quorum court may set the number of hours between zero and forty. And this is only if a county employee has been made available to act as election coordinator. Commissioners could also not be paid hourly compensation for task completed more than one hundred days prior to election day. For more than forty days after election day. The stipulations will provide safeguards so that no one could take advantage of or abuse the system. In closing we sometimes see high turnover in election commissioner positions. There been instances where there's been a vacancy on a county commission. They're going poll workers were well qualified to fill that position. But we're not interested because the greatly increased responsibility for a lower rate of pay. We hope this bill will encourage dedicated individuals to continue to serve in our county election commissions. This bill has sixty co sponsors it passed the Senate with thirty four vote and it is supported by the state board of election commissioners. Committee that's all I have a be glad to answer any questions. Any questions from committee members. Sam Nunn NO one is signed up to speak. Four years to build representative you're recognized close with your bill. Committee on clothes and ask for a good vote representative covers close with the bill explosion committee have a motion for of a do pass. Any discussion on the motion. Saying none all in favor say aye. All opposed say no congratulations your bill is passed. Committee members the next item on. Today's agenda is Senate bill three. Thirty five. Representative berry. Mr chairman good morning colleagues and I have a special guest with me today gave you would identify yourself to committee thank you Mr Joshua Bryant this state Senate district thirty two K. L. recognized present your bill thank you Mr chairman and colleagues the Air Force guy Mstislav last time so we called in a marine I hate to admit that to represent the Richmond but it it's it's packed so um in representative genes not here so we want to hurry up and get out of here before he makes it back so that being said though as my colleague senator Josh Bryant. Thank you it's it's okay. Result was given first for their force anyway. Committee I just want to to represent three thirty five I know this is my last bite at this apple I just to make sure you understand what what the secretary of state's office deals with and what this bill will potentially or actually will help alleviate. So there's there's a twenty. Twenty five monuments on our Capitol grounds in those monuments were placed from the then when the when the capitals bill all the way up to recently the gold star memorial those monuments by by our statute unless the state statute monument statute specifically says the those monuments can't be touched using state dollars so that the form commissions those commissions have to acquire funding and then that funding can be used to Sure you might terminology correctly That that new funding can be used for updates additions alterations or renovations any money that's in the accounts now can be used for maintenance and preservation so the money that's in that account out of seventy seven thousand four hundred fifty six dollars. Fifty thousand that is for the gold star and that that was put in there as part of the base for the ten percent money. That is required when the monument was authorized to put on Capitol grounds. That money is for that monument the remaining dollars as what they can use for the maintenance and preservation when that money gets exhausted that fund closes down so it's it's hard to want to spend that money is it what does the fund closes down and we have three authorize the fund. So what what this bill does it and that's not to say the secretary of state doesn't use state funding to do what they can I mean we're we're not gonna lead our our money was just crumble to the ground but they're using a different fund to basically put duct tape on our monuments when this law will correct that and allow them to actually keep our money that's all of our money let's. Now there is a portion in this I think that has a patient and that will allow the state dollars get used for additions alterations renovations. I personally not oppose that we have people come to our capital from all over the world and if they you know we we want to honor our monuments and be proud of those monuments and if our Vietnam memorial is is falling to the ground that it which is where this originated was. The the local veterans associations are raising money to basically. Make that monument shine again. And so they're coming to veteran saying Hey you can give money to organization that can feed a veteran that can house a better in that can help with better in or you can give money to this organization. To keep our monument at the capitol and I thought that was a shame because I'd rather I'd rather feed a veteran I'd rather put it better in a in a home until the VA can can pick up the tab. So that was the that was the intent of this bill any state funding that gets moved over into this account will be at the will of the General Assembly we can choose to do or not obviously the budget is I am conversation we may choose not to this year but if the secretary state wants to move their money over this account to be able to use those funds at least this bill will let them do that it'll let them do all additions alterations renovations on the can't build new that is not affected by this law so we do a new monument they still have to send a commission raise money give ten percent to this fund and then move forward so that was the intent of this bill. And with that I can I can answer any questions I've got now Michael secretary of state's office that not only is is part of the capital preservation. Group but he also runs a number one. Any questions from committee members. Saying none. No one signed up to speak for against the bill. Well be over you're recognized everyone's close recognized close with the bill. Thank you thank you committee for your consideration of this I know the the limitations that secretary of state's office has dealt with they've they've use other funds to try to do with supposed to do just to be right this will keep them in compliance with the law and perhaps give them more flexibility to to make our money that's better. Okay centers close to the bill representative merry have a motion. motion do pass representative Beria's motion do pass any discussion on the motion. Saying none all in favor say aye. All opposed say no. Regulation Mar bill is passed. Without objection we're gonna skip over for the time being will pick it back up here later on in the meeting but I've got some legislators from Canadian back to other committee members and representative makes is on this committee so we can hear House Bill fifteen sixty eight without objections I'm skipping over it to House Bill fifteen fifty three representative long. Representative long sponsors not in the room will go moved that Senate bill sixty two. Senate bill six two Senator Hill is of. The representative is generated to present the bill saying none. We will move to Senate bill three fifty four I believe representative Cavenaugh is here to present the bill. Representative Cavenaugh is you're recognized. Two of president Senate bill three fifty four thank you Mr chair so would you have. Also would you have you got. Three of the thirteen on the table if you would identify yourself to the committee yes Sir. Yes Terrel bass said secretary of labor licensing. Prejudge been in committee today No representative you're recognized presents bill thank you Mr chairman and committee this is a bill that is going to combine three boards into one it is legislation that we've been working with with the labor license zero one the three boards that were looking to combine our appraisers ABSTRACTERS' in home inspectors they will be transferred into one board that simply what this bill does sets up what the new board would look like and with that really I'll take any questions. Any questions from committee members representative to make sure recognized for a question. Thank you Mr could you explain what the the benefit or what the on the hope is by creating this one combined board over having three separate boards what's the aim of the goal we're trying to alternately chief I'll speak on and then I'll let secretary so basically it is for efficiencies so that will have everyone board versus three and allow them to be more efficient in the way that they're able to process stuff but I'll let them speak more to that. Yes representative is correct this is all about efficiency in state government it also allows us to help two of our most vulnerable a at divisions within the Department that. He's me that being ABSTRACTERS' in home inspectors these are divisions that overtime of demonstrated some significant financial and operational deficiencies despite the well meaning efforts of some of the board members and so what this does is it allows us to have line of sight Management over three boards efficiency yes because instead of free boards meeting a we will have one board meeting and then we can certainly be more responsive I've gotten some some issues from some of the representatives about the time it takes us to respond to the issues in these boards and so this is just really an efficiency measure to allow our shared services component of our department to be able to assist these boards that are that are that are having some difficulties in helping them financially from an HR perspective and certainly from an operational perspective. Any further questions from committee members. Say none we've got several people signed up to speak of. Against the bill. The insurer may be against and for the bill but anyway if you would Director view just. I move from your state there and will make room for against to speak. Speaking agents the R. will battle fifty issue for us. Three fifty four as Richard bobbling Mr Moblin. Distribution have isolated yes you just have a seat in the table thank you for being here today. K. love if you would just Sentifi yourself to the committee and doesn't have people do speak for against the bill but I'll let you explain that to the committee noon you're recognized keep your testimony. I'm Richard mildly and I represent my business proteam inspectors and I am neither for or against the bill I just want the percentage of representation for the bill to be equitable. In looking at the numbers and the distribution of the number of fully licensed appraisers ABSTRACTERS' and home inspectors if you have the full practicing licensed together you come up with a total of approximately. Eleven hundred twelve hundred. Members of these various agencies or boards. And. DO in a ratio in proportion that leaves about fifty two percent on the appraisers board six percent on the ABSTRACTERS' and forty one percent. For the home inspectors. And the home inspectors what equitable and fair representation I'm speaking personally here. So my recommendation would be to re comprise the board if there are eight licensed members. To be for appraisers one abstractor. And three home inspectors if we're going to add additional members to the board of licensed. participants. Then they need to actually add two members to the board so it would be five appraisers one abstract and for home inspectors. That would be the composition that would be fair and equitable for the board members for. For the license part portion of this board. That's all I've got. Thank you Sir any questions from committee members. Say none Mr Bobby thank you for your time we appreciate your testimony. Signed up to speak against the bill is WC make bride. Mr McBride. But you would just have a seat for the dental by yourself to the committee and you're recognized give you testimony. I told. Thank you Mr chairman my name is Debbie C. McBride. I am a certified appraiser and. A retired home inspector. I have. Been in the business for over twenty years. I spent the last five years serving on the home inspector board. I spent the first part as a home inspector after retiring they put me on the board as a appraiser. I know the workings of the board I know the appraisal side and I know the home inspector side. This has nothing to do with. The home inspector board being cut back or not being efficient in our work. All our meetings were open to the public and I believe that this committee would do its due diligence and look back on that. Since the beginning of the. Partner of labor licensing we requested additional help. Dale brown R. board. And we have not received that. We have made several advances in the board. We have a balance in our account of six hundred and sixty seven thousand dollars. We couldn't afford one more. Secretary. Per the department of labor licensing because that was outside of our realm to run our. Home inspector board. We have. In the existence by then governor Mike Huckabee. To protect the citizens of this state. All the people in this room all of you is the largest. Purchase you'll make in your life as a home. Having a an interested third party look at that home and tell you the condition it's in or. What repairs need to be made is a large part of that. That's what this board was set up to do. As an appraiser I look at houses I'd give values. And as they will said in their. Previous meeting appraisers can help do what only specter's do that's a fallacy I've done both jobs for twenty years. This is appointed. Personnel in the state government. Making a choice because the home inspector board. Was. Trying to do due diligence and do our job as a as a board correcting that. Now with all that said. I appreciate your time I know that. As this all. Goes about it's pretty much set in stone so. But I wanted to say. The only loser in all this. Is going to be the general public. And hopefully. As Texas is already done prior to this. Don't put the home inspectors under the real estate commission. That's like putting the fox Walker Watson in else thank you for your time. Thank you Mr McBride any questions from committee members. Saying none. Signed up to speak against the bill is Mitchell to shore. Serve you would justify yourself to the committee and you're recognized give you testimony I'm sorry I couldn't hear you just state your name to the committee and then you're recognized give your testimony Mitchell fusilier I am a licensed home inspector I am totally against this bill. This is about efficiency. Under the proficiency what what what's efficient. We ask for help to a half years ago. We were self sufficient we have plenty of funds in our account we're doing very well but now we're going to invite a board to come in. That knows nothing really about a few might really knows nothing about home inspections so where is our protection. It makes me not want to be a home inspector anymore and I'm sure some several home inspectors feel the same way I'm mad about this I don't agree with this it's almost like a hostile takeover it's about the funding it's not about efficiency it's about taking the funds. There were a couple senators that. Actually got this in the previous meeting I can't remember the gentleman's name but senator flowers spoke. Truly to this fact and she gets it and thank you for that. My board is there for me. They know what I do they know the process they know the standards of practice the the appraisal board does not I do not feel protected. If I need to ask my board a question. One phone call and it's answered immediately. Does our board big mistakes I'm sure we all do we can agree to that. So in the last meeting. We had a couple senators senator Payton Senator Hester they really picked us apart they took her testimony and took the few little things that we. We're not professional Speaker so they took a few of the things that we said. And really dug into us about that and and. It was. I watched it several times and every time I watch it it scares me. that that's what to we've come to. So one of the things that they picked us apart on or complaints. Not being efficient in our complaints or or getting to them in a timely manner. What they didn't ask us was what were those complaints what are the majority of the complaints so really did they really want to know about our complaints or they just wanna pick at us so. Complaints most of our complaints actually come from home inspectors. Home inspectors turning it other inspectors who are doing jobs without a license that's where most of the complaints come from not from the clients. Our labor secretary said. We have he talked about identifying deficiencies but he never. Said what those deficiencies are what are they. We've asked for help. COVID hit things happen. So what are the deficiencies I still don't know what they are. So bored I pray that you guys vote this against this bill. I'm totally against it and I know most home inspectors are the only home inspectors that I would think would be for this or home inspectors that don't need to be practicing. Thank you. Thank you Sir any questions from committee members. Say none so thank you for your testimony. Signed up to speak against the bill is Derek bird. You would just get a value set up to the committee and then you're recognized to give you testimony. My name is Derek bird I am a licensed home inspector here in the state of Arkansas. my testimony is more questions of how this is supposed to play out I'm fairly new to the home inspection industry I've had my license for two years now and I've come to appreciate the strict and stringent requirements to becoming a home inspector and to maintain that inspection license. Shows a lot of quality is necessary for our industry. I don't see how combining these boards is actually going to become more efficient as I don't see where these industries overlap. I don't know of any appraisers whom test equipment the system to components of a home while they're processing value to it I don't know of any instructors that actually step foot into a home during the home buying process. I don't know of any licensed inspectors that would try to assessed value to any home I don't know of any license inspectors that would analyze or evaluate the records the like an instructor would do. So with that being said I don't see how on the boards or the way these industries are operated and regulated needs overlap either. It doesn't seem to be efficient it seems like it's just going to cause more questions problems and during those committee meetings are going to be extended because they're not going to be able to understand exactly what each one's talking about. Thank you. Thank you for testimony questions from committee members. Say none thank you again appreciate you being here also signed up to speak against the bill is Charlotte London. London B. would justify yourself to the committee and you're recognized to be testimony. Good morning my name is Charlotte London and I'm the administrator for the. Home inspector board. The reason I am. Speaking out against this bill. I have been the administrator since August first of two thousand sixteen I've seen the board. Turn over several times as far as because of term limits and some have resigned but each board has done so much to improve the home inspectors in this state and to improve their education their training everything. And right now we've even started an apprenticeship program. And the board wants to make better home inspectors and it's very respectable. As far as what they do and when it comes to us going to. March with two other boards. As far as ABSTRACTERS' I don't know anything about them appraisers about a couple houses in our life I've had my house refinanced at one time and I've had it appraised nobody ever came in my house nobody even came inside my fence as far as an appraiser home inspector goes under house in a house. In the attic I've been in my attic I required my house so I know a little bit a little about what they do. And appraise cannot. Touch that as far as what they do. Our board also when there. When we have our meetings they're looking at the continuing ed they approve all the courses that the home inspectors have to take they have to take fourteen hours every year. To keep their license. And the continuing it is not like they can just take all plumbing courses all electrical courses it varies and every year is no courses that come up right now we have a hundred twenty eight on our site I have probably two hundred and fifty or more applications in the office right now. Of C. E. courses and when we have our meetings we have an education chairman. And I send each of those applications to him and he reviews each one of them and of course I go over all of them to make sure that everything is there is for the content of those C. courses. And the instructors are qualified before I send those joint there are times when I do have to contact the schools to get more information before I can send anything to the education chairman but he reveals these and during our meeting he'll give a recommendation of what. He thinks about this course and if it needs to be approved once that is done the home inspector they have a. Wide variety of courses that they can take to improve what their knowledge. In each of these meetings also. Each of the home inspectors they discuss each of the home inspectors that have applied for licenses they're qualifications we do get. What a few people from out of state. Some have training that's okay some don't some people have just taken an online course that's not good enough. And the board will tell them what they need to do as far as to in order to attain their license. And I can't see appraisers telling them because that what would they tell. And as for. Me and what I do I don't know where that's going because there's been no communication I knew nothing about this bill because there's not zero with me. And I'm the only way I found out was by looking at the legislators website. And as far as what the department of labor wants to do I don't know. But I'm just totally against this bill and I would. Like for you to consider not passing it. Thank you thank you ma'am any questions I have a representative Beck. Thank you Mr thank you for coming testifying from the side I have just a few questions related to. So how often does the board made now we will meet once a month on the first Wednesday of each month and the only time that changes is during our renewal period which starts in November because there's so many applications that come in this is the first year that we've been having that we've had online. Licensing as far as people can renew and they can apply for a license but each of those still has to be reviewed by the board as far as their qualifications and everything I do background checks for each of those right so in terms of like renewing my license and. I apologize. A lot lack of knowledge on inspectors out of the same so when I go to renew my license is six or like I have to have like so many hours of continuing education that's correct you at all and what is lacking it would be fourteen hours that you would have to have every year each year to renew your license and there's several options as far as that mainly because when COVID started of course a lot of the schools shut down and so. It had people had to go to them for the courses and says that's live it does counties classroom so they can take their entire fourteen hours. Bison or in a classroom or they can split it and take eight hours classroom and six online. For all follows yes so. On the okay so that's obviously a pretty big deciding who's. In what programs are good for continuing and whether those online that's part of it what else would you say that that's fifty percent of what the board does just in general you know as sixty percent white and then what is the other remaining percentage what what what was the activities of the board for that. Well we have like a complaint investigator which are complaints or number the board doesn't know names home inspectors who it is and when the complaints come in of course I have to notify that home inspector and yes to answer. To the board as far as a response to that complaint that was filed against him and once is gone his response comes in everything is turned over to the complaint investigator he comes up with his findings and we do have a board attorney from this Attorney General's office and they discuss what will happen there aren't and if this no findings of course the complaint is dismissed. One short. You're recognized I'm really interested in not that not so much to exactly one how they're doing it I'm just trying to say okay the board meets and and sixty percent their time is spent on developing education in general over years period thirty percent is with complaints ten percent or whatever just a percentage breakdown of what activities they're doing not necessarily how they're doing and what you just. I'm trying to fill a figure out exactly what the board I'm not saying they're not doing a good job don't get me wrong I'm just trying to figure out exactly what are they looking at what are they doing. Well I would say the percentages can very because we've had anywhere from four applicants in a month two twenty four twenty eight so it can very from one month to the next when we had paper applications it was averaging at least twenty each month so of course most of their time in a meeting was going to be spent on that but they review these applications beforehand because I do send that information to them to review them on their own and when they get to the meeting is mainly a discussion if anyone has questions or about an application and the applicant's always invited to these meetings so they can answer questions also so the percentages can very and just like even with the. C. H. we've had as many as probably eighty plus C. courses. Thank you. Representative Matt growing recognized for a question thank you Mr chair we appreciate you coming today in ensuring that thoughts with your board meets once a month yes are they compensated for those meetings no they are not there volunteers thank you very much thank you Mr. Say no further questions from committee members may have thank you for your testimony but if you got you have a question my question is for the bill sponsor I think okay we'll. You get to that when we had to get her back into the table so. We've also signed up to speak against the bill is the wind bander blink Bentley yes Sir. Not sure I got that exactly right but I'll let you and then if I yourself to the committee and then you're recognized the testimony good morning my name is to invent a playroom I am the president of the Arkansas association real scene specters and representative berry mentioned the Air Force and marines on my was army at one time army guard thirty two years hot first like to thank the committee for allowing us to speak today I am against this bill. And I'm gonna read this because I'm a little nervous so just bear with me. Ari was founded over thirty years ago back before the board even existed on time what the state board. thanks Arkansas's first association of property its inspectors ari's roots run deep in group of committed individuals who want to safeguard and protect the real estate industry consumers and inspectors from potentially harmful regulations and policies that can damage the industry that's why I'm here. Always working on ways to reduce the state wide home inspector attrition rate there's an apparently a high turnover rate so we're we hold the C. courses every year we have a conference every year that's approved by the state licensing board registration board and work we've got a course that is geared towards how to run a home inspection business to help the treasury. Already provides education annually to meet the fourteen hours C. E. mandated by the state. We decided one of the subjects was geared towards. How to operate a home inspection business mission and The this state licensing board is developing a survey that was provided by Tommy Allen he's heading all that. And every home inspectors going to be able to fill that out and the state licensing boards going to try to determine what's the cause of the attrition rate. When Now they are so so she shall say inspectors were already for short that went on to keep spelling that out when we turn in the education packet to the board it goes to Education Committee like miss Charlotte mentioned for review. If approved by the board we receive a C. E. number and that goes towards each subject and one a home inspector renews our license to help provide that certificate with the hours and the C. E. number that's associated by that and it goes. With the the licensing renewal and the the issue that I have is who's going to review those on the new board is going to be an appraiser are they got a new yes it meets the requirements so as a lot of unknowns from us as home inspectors not to emit a licensed home inspector. There's also requirements missions soon we did A year zoom only because the COVID and the requirements for that is to be acceptable is you have to interact with the instructor so you can go to one of the other websites watch a class that's recorded and not have interaction with the instructor so it has to be you gotta be able to interact with the instructor. So what I'm concerned about is the process of. The renewals every year and most of our clients a lot of our clients that I can't speak for everybody but are. Clients are realtors that call is Hey we need a home inspection done so it's it's gonna affect dear outlook on US if they start lesson the standards on becoming a home inspector I heard that you were trying to streamline and make the licensing quicker well in my mind the only way to make it quicker is to cut the standards down and make it a faster process by going to DMB and get your driver's license renewed and I hope it doesn't come to that because we hold inspectors to a high regard and we need to. Because that would be eight ways to better improve all inspector instead of trying to. You know invite people that don't need to be inspectors in there in your homes by themselves and that you know I wouldn't trust. A sex offender or I mean it I'm I'm just on hypotheticals out there are some is being hit convicted of theft I wouldn't trust him to be in your homes and I just hope that this bill does not pass and That's all I've got now taking questions thank you Sir who have questions from the committee member representative Gonzalez recognized for a question thing Mr can you show me the bill where it allows sex offenders that is just that I don't what we do background checks or the state board does they do background checks my point was if they lessen the standards and do away with what let's say the background check and then they just a email to be a whole home inspector and and like I was using the sex offender as example as example but okay I ask because I'm a preacher I just read and where the that is still in law that and even in the new board creation they still have to abide by the same is that correct rep Review recoverable you are correct thank you. Thank you for your testimony Sir appreciate your service also recognized speak against the bill is. Daniel. Motorcade. Serve you would identify yourself. To the Committee and you're recognized give you testimony thank you Mr chair and committee Daniel Burkett I am a licensed home inspector and also the current chairman home inspector at registration board. So I'm guess is bill obviously the main reason is that these three boards are not the same okay everyone seems to think they are everyone thinks home inspectors same as appraiser it's not I've had several colleagues up here today that I just hope everyone pays attention we don't do the same things were not regulated the same way we don't the same education requirements they have a lot more hours today to do for appraisals than we do as far as home inspectors but we know that systems homes they don't so there's a major difference between the two ABSTRACTERS' honestly I thought that was art or something I didn't have a clue what was still don't so this bill does mostly with appraisers if you look at the bill there five appraiser positions on this ten person board and only two home inspectors of Mr Mobley pointed out earlier with the numbers were as far as licensed appraisers verses ABSTRACTERS' license home inspectors are representation there's going to be Neil it would not have a say for the most part where this comes into play is when we're dealing with education requirements continue education requirements for education requirements insurance requirements also complaints you gotta remember we are a consumer advocate board governor Huckabee created this board when he was governor for that particular purpose we have done that every year stance that's our main go the majority the home inspectors are there to protect the public that's what we do that's what your their protect the public as well so that's why we're here to hear this. So. And I'm my opinion in the board's opinion is without that proper representation we're going to lose that protection that ability protect okay let me say we're all volunteers we're only mandated by statute to meet twice a year that's it as chairman I meet every month and even the board members prior to me we met every month the reason we did that because we have such a load during our meetings to answers representative backs question it varies anywhere from forty to sixty percent we're talking about applicants there were qualifications and so forth to include education okay twenty to thirty percent we're probably talking about New business stuff is coming up for instance are pretty ship program that we're working on code of ethics and stuff like that it's about maintaining the viability of home expecting IT industry while protecting the public this is about efficiency this is about. Control honestly and that's that's what it's all about we're self funded and self funded group all right we've asked for allocation for a additional police to help with administrative side because that load has been a lot we were able to handle our lotus flowers aboard requirements but not with the Secretary department labor license plate always for them for the for that department we can't handle both those loads and one person so again I appreciate your time any questions got a couple questions from committee members represented Richmond you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mister you referred to a with the new board of five to split. Would you think is Would limit your ability to have good representation has there been any explanation provided to you why that number was decided on it to be very honest with you what is even asked the board anything about this in the Senate hearing last week Senator Hammer who I'm a friend with a with a outside of politics he led the Senate committee members to believe that he's heard from all three boards when in fact he hasn't DO you have only heard from one board and that is the home secretary for abstractor board is basically nonexistent they have someone in place temporarily which is the executive assistant for the Secretary department labor licensing. The abstractor who testified in the Senate hearing exactly actually the director of that board she got on the board she's a direct employee for the Secretary department labor licensing so that yet they haven't heard from anybody and no I don't I don't know where that number comes from that's just what's in the bill thank you Sir thank you Mister. Representative bank you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr just a quick question is this how you come out here you look at the house and I'm sure that that price may very bad how how long it takes to do all that but is there a component of the price that I would pay like fifty dollars an inspection or something like that that goes directly to the board in our to to support the board to fund our how is that money flow that that the money for home inspections is the home inspector that that we don't talk about pricing because we don't want the appearance of any kind of price fixing okay so really would I can check what other homes second charge all that money goes if I did a home inspection of my the board only gets money from renewals from applications from education so as Mr Ali said we approved vendors that provide education they have an application fee so we get funds from there also any findings with via complaints and so forth that goes to the board as well but nothing as far as doing a home inspection because the board the board is a consumer advocacy advocacy for it yeah consumer protection group it doesn't protect homes factors I know a lot of home inspectors thank it does but we don't we're there protect the consumer the problem with that is a rather the benefit of that is when we're here compliance which the know what home inspectors do so we can tell that complaint if it is in fact something there's must be looking at or not. Thank you. Representative makes you're recognized for a question thank you Mr chairman I like a lot of my colleagues on this board my knowledge of this comes from the home buying experience so my question is are there going to be a say this new board is constituted would there be a potential conflicts of interest between those three professional groups that in your opinion could create concerns about safety to the public or to the buying that would be detrimental to the public through this all of those potential conflicts that are there absolutely in my opinion as you said yes absolutely there is those though this goes back to several complaints within pipeline right now regarding licensed home inspectors doing inspections for their spouse which is a realtor or their spouses company which are brokers and the board's determination in view on this is that's a huge conflict of interest as as a client as a home buyer if you're getting over the agent you go do have the home inspection done it shows up to be her husband or whatever you think there's a little shady miss going on right so it's all about appearance and that's one reason this board current board has decided to redo our standards not a standard practice but are rather code of ethics to specify specifically you know you can't do that you can't inspect for your for your spouse or their company or whatever to alleviate a lot of that so this new board is created that's going to go by the wayside I I just I don't see they're going to see that as a conflict of interest so yeah I think it's gonna be major issues and this may be something we not may not see for six eight months or a year or longer but the final outcome is it's going to be a detriment to the people of Arkansas period. Thank you. Say no further questions from committee members so thank you for your testimony before this committee today thank you for your time. Also signed up to speak against the bill is mission Neil Mr nail. So if you would just have state identify yourself to the committee and you are a recognized. To give you testimony. Thank you Mr chair I think the committee members are here today for giving us the opportunity to talk to you and listen to our testimony I'm Robert mill I am a home inspector and a former chairman of the Arkansas home inspector registration board. As a small business owner of over the past thirteen years I can appreciate the desire for efficiency. I believe today you've heard that a lot of the goals of this Senate bill is to create deficiency. I'm not against that part of the bill proficiency I'm I'm I'm in favor of however. All the employees that will be employed for administrative duties after the story arrangement of boards are currently employees of the Arkansas department of licensing labor or labor licensing. It would be possible to achieve the administrative sharing of duties such as accounting such is you know registration rules and some of the other. And some of the other administrative duties without creating a bill. Often times and the board's community I've heard the appraiser board praised for their efficiency which I'm not arguing with that at all however if you look at the number of people that they manage how many applicants they have to the number of employees and if you took that ratio and applied it to the home inspector registration board we would need about one point seven five employees to actually have the same number of employees to be able to compare our vision seated there so no one saying that we don't need additional ministry of health we've been in favor of administrative help and we've actually tried to obtain it in the past. What this bill actually achieves a near complete strike through of the Arkansas home inspector registration act of two thousand three. You've already heard about the possible composition or the proposed composition of the new board under this bill so rather than repeat those numbers I'll try to answer a question that was proposed I believe that the not the the numbers of representatives on the board was meant to be proportional to the number of registrants that each board that each board oversees however I think those numbers were slightly skewed many times during this hearing process I've heard numbers that inflated the appraisers board and deflated the home inspector registration for which we alter our actual representation I believe Mr Mobley spoke to that gave you specific numbers on what would show equitable representation on these boards. You've also heard probably today in from previous testimony in the Senate that two out of the three boards that this affects or in favor of this legislation. I don't know of any record of the board's voting on this I'm not being or not but I don't know if this is actually happened the administrative staff of the appraisal board is the closest thing I've seen to quote unquote board support. The appraisal board who are see the largest share representation and ABSTRACTERS' board who currently have no staff have the most to gain from this the home inspector registration board has the most to lose in the fact that will be losing significant representation in the decision making process of our rule adoption disciplinary procedures and registration requirements that affect home inspectors and ultimately the end of the day affect the consumers of Arkansas. Despite darkened the home inspector registration for having the most to lose from this bill I've yet to find a board member former board member or board staff members that represent the home inspector registration board that is being kept in the loop or ask for input on this matter for perspective of all of from the perspective of a home inspector. I can say this with confidence as previous testimony in the Senate Committee were built from the sponsor of the Senate sponsor this bill they testified this is been in the process for at least two years at this point. Two years ago I was the chairman of the Arkansas home inspector registration board at that time I was ignorant about this push to consolidate our board the closest thing I heard to consolidation was that we were going to benefit from shared services but the board composition was going to stay the same so administratively things might change but our board composition was to stay the same as what the story we were told at that time. I was completely ignorant to this push until this month and that holds true for the other current and former board members I've spoken to. Through a recent information requested that I filed I found out that the appraiser boards obviously in the loop about this and the general counsel for the Arkansas department of licensing labor even went out of their way to specifically contact a former member of the abstractor board I see no record of any conversation or any inclusion of the home inspector registration board the creation of this bill you would think if you wanted fair and equitable representation of a bill you would contact the boards and receive input from subject matter experts that this directly affects. I want to re reiterate again that all the employees affected by this bill are already employed by the Arkansas department a licensed in labor when the transformation began again with we are for the administrative help but the board composition is changing that something that we were not so long. It makes sense that if you have staff with specialized skills and that you want those staff members perform those services and cross train other staff members to cover in their absence. But I don't think the department a licensee in labor needs a bill to do things administratively with their with their staff the people involved are already their employees This efficiency to be achieved without a bill we cannot. What we cannot achieve without a bill however is weakening the input from subject matter experts these experts are board members who volunteer deficiency game that is going to is being touted can already be achieved and there's actually efficiency loss with this bill by removing volunteers with valuable insight from the decision making process you don't gain efficiency by removing the knowledge of experts who are willing to work for free for the protection of consumers so with that I will I will close and respectfully ask that you vote against this bill for a reason one. This was filed as an emergency due to financial reasons and financial savings this doesn't save any money this has the same number employees coming in coming out so it's not an emergency. no because there's been a lack of communication for the board that would be affected and though because at the end of the day it's not going to make it more efficient. Thank you thank you any good any questions from committee members. Saying none. thank you for your testimony appreciate you being here today and I have one more person signed up to speak. To speak against the bill that is Tom FOR Mr fuller. Tom one. Tom Allen. You have. Allen you're recognized to your stage what stage name to the committee and then you're recognized maybe testimony thank you I'm Tom Allen today I'm a home inspector I have been president of the state organization multiple times over the last fifty years I have been. Chairman of the board for the home inspectors licensing board a couple of times how was the first What appointment by governor Huckabee to that board In in the nineties when that board was created the genesis of home inspection began about twenty five years prior to that though and with that we started with a very few number of people it in the state there's little knowledge known appoint a home inspection actually amounted to. And for the most part we were making it up as we went along trying to figure out what buyers needed to make good sound decisions on their homes. That has evolved into a national organization that includes Canada Australia North America and South Africa with basically the same standards are practicing code of ethics that we have here in the state of Arkansas. I would like to tell you a little bit about what a home inspection is and I would also like to address a representative Berridge questions about what the board does and why this board. Would do better to remain intact. A home inspection is a comprehensive look at a piece of property. Granted by the seller to approach corrective buyer. Without doing any damage to the property in the process. So it takes a pretty highly trained person with a good background in connecting the dots to be able to go through this house recognized a flaw that is either pourtant to the status of the House for. Something that needs to be further investigated and could be tied to the the structure or foundation of the home we do that. Is trained home inspectors I do I do tell you that we also do that. In July and August in Arkansas when that attic is at a hundred and thirty a hundred thirty five degrees we crawl beneath that house when it's wet We are not going to slow the process of the real estate transaction by saying it's too messy for us to go today. One of the other things that you need to understand is the make up of the cadre of home inspectors within the state It'll surprise you the number of veterans that are in here it'll also surprise you the number of ranking officers that make this up there's a three star general that's among our late our range I retired from the reserve is a field grade officer we've had numerous people in there in the in there with fairly high military ranking which goes along with the discipline necessary to pull this off. We. I spent a great deal of time in these board meetings dealing with the issues of making better home inspectors to Mr back to representative vexed question. We've got a situation going on now with the number of home inspectors enter entering and the number home inspectors that are unable to survive in exiting this. We call that the revolving door project up quite a bit of time is expended in these board meetings trying to address the issues that cause that we have funded a study that will go out statewide to excuse me to help us determine. What makes success in what creates failure within the ranks of home inspectors. we can't have. a great deal of in and out of this business these people need to be steady there need to be able to survive in it and they need to be well enough trained to perform a protect the public. Mr Neil gave your really good break down old what's going on. I didn't realize we had a financial problem we got a financial problem with six hundred thousand dollars in the bank. Obviously. We're pretty healthy board to to start with we do have problems in the administration administrative side because of the volume of work that this lady has to contend with all the time and then the outside pressure that's put on her job by the secretary of labor and his staff. I want to say one other thing and then I'm going to close and I would hope that you have questions of that I might be able to shed light on yesterday I spent that day dealing with directly with the secretary of labor and portions of his staff along with a cadre of home inspector leadership throughout the state and members of the current licensing board. Hi as I was leaving the capital after the Senate hearing the other day I was stopped by the Secretary he indicated in need. The desire to work with us in that he specifically asked that I would be of help to me and I thought yesterday would be a good day to try and find out what that might be and see if we can come to some conclusion or some resolution as to the Potential destruction of this board. So I called the the secretary of eight thirty your show yesterday and we talked about maybe Rick leading this board to remain intact and. Joining in the administrative functions that he is set up within this bill. He told me that one possible but that we could add one more member to the board by taking a member away from the appraisal board. And we talked about several other issues. None that would have entered into the bill but would have helped us address some of the other ongoing issues within the in the licensing board. Shall we close that conversation and I went to the leadership both in already in the state licensing board and conveyed his desire to make this alteration to the board With a great deal of concern on the part of these individuals because this is not the pill we wanted to swallow but it was the best deal we could come up with yesterday. So. After spending the number of hours on the phone with these people I went back to the secretary and I got a call returned from his chief of staff I told him that I needed to deal directly with the Secretary because he and I knew exactly what we were talking about I went over with the Secretary in their conversation asking him if our deal was still available and then we re hashed. Each issue there the fact that this board position was going to be created by. Dropping one from the appraisal boarding adding it to the home inspector board. That's exactly right Mr Ellen that's what will happen I said well send me the language. on the amendment should don't have to worry about that we're gonna pull the bill down today. It will be worked on tomorrow and you will have adequate time to evaluate that Amendment. Send me the language of the amendment. So about four o'clock yesterday afternoon I got the language it was not what we talked about it all. We added one member to the board making in an eleven member board and added one additional home inspector that skews the percentage of route of representation on that board dramatically when that happens. This board is very frustrated we made a hard landing when we moved into the Secretary of labour's Officers in under his control there was no planning on the part of the staff of the secretary of labor to receive this board. We went four year without a lock that could not work on the on the office door we had. Very sensitive files that were left out in a cubicle space within the secretary of the secretary's office space and it took some fairly to. Demanding emails to get the chief of staff to provide security for those files after months of sitting there and asking politely for so to tell you this we don't have a good working Ridge relationship there we are. Less than trustworthy of the offers that we have been made. I would love to have your questions. Any questions from committee members representative very recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chairman so Mr Allen I just be curious to what in the world is veterans and three star generals and everybody have to do with this I'm retired three star general forty five years in and I really get offended when people sit at the end of the table and they try to use that as a crutch with veterans and in positions of authority just to justify their existence so can you tell me what what what you mean by that because it has it scores no points are votes with me I'm sorry I didn't Holcomb made you feel that way about it. I was trying to the point I was trying to make was is that the fact that we do crawl in those addicts and we get really dirty and really sweaty doesn't have anything to do with our intellectual ability or are community service ability none of those things I'm sorry you were offended by that it certainly was not meant to be offensive at all it was meant to clarify the quality of people that we have. And I hope you would agree that having veterans interested in any business is it is a quality thank. Follow up you're recognized. So I kinda agree within a discreet you know in any community with the law enforcement or if the veterans are in it you know you have good actors you have bad actors you have the better and you have bad at veterans but my point being is I think it's it's it's not appropriate in a form like this to use the veterans name in order to help justify you know your position so that's all I've got to say thank you Mr. Any further questions from committee members. J. none. Thank you Michelle thank you for your testimony. Committee members that's the lesser someone else in the room to fail to recognize anyone else to speak for against the bill. Representative Cavenaugh. You're recognized. To close with your bill thank you Mr. First I just want to cover some of the things that were brought out. And secretary can and if he wishes to if it's alright with the chair the Department made an offer to the home inspectors Board to add one position they did not offer to take away anyone from the appraiser for they offered to give them one extra position on the board which would have brought them to three. They also did this because the appraisers actually will have twelve hundred last centers where the home inspectors at three hundred fifty. Also another thing is being communicated that's not quite accurate is we're not changing any licensure requirement we're not changing in the standard of conduct required. Anything or not changing a continuing education or anything but this were simply combining boards when we talk about efficiency and why we think that the and the Department needs oversight of all three of these and will help is because the home inspector board allowed three months worth of checks to lay in the desk under positive. That amounted to ninety thousand dollars. The board knew this. But they didn't get deposited the department did not know that. There's not any attempt here to change their continuing education to change their education and I speak to boards yes the appraiser board voted unanimously to accept this board and so talk about savings the actual department is going to turn and one of their abstractor position so there will be a position savings in there so there is some as efficiency savings so with that I mean I. If you have any thank you but I'm just saying that this is not an attempt to hurt any industry this is simply a way to try to address some of the inefficiencies that we've experienced in boards and it does make it more efficient when you have one board rather than having to have three boards but nobody's conduct ethics no one standards and no one's continuing education is going to be changed and with that I would appreciate a good vote any questions from committee members. Representative Cavenaugh of you closing your bill I'm closer representative Cavenaugh is close with the bill what's pleasure of the Committee. I have a motion representative Bentley of do pass any discussion on the motion. Representative to make sure recognized for discussion on the motion of a do pass thank you Mr chairman and for a representative of a Cavenaugh I appreciate the effort that you want to make here and try to create government efficiencies as you know I'm generally one who is Always looking for ways that we can make the government more efficient but my concern with this bill is. The tiny amount of efficiency that we're getting we're sacrificing three boards that are overlooking. Very specific industries and those interested industries involved very high dollars am afraid by taking away some of that oversight we end up hurting the people are trying to protect the most and that's the citizens of Arkansas and so because of that reason and I'm going to be voting no on this particular bill. Representative to make his spoken on the motion any other discussion on the motion. Saying none. All in favor say aye. All opposed say no. Those have it the bill is fail. Committee members and those of you in attendance we are really running short on time but we've got other committee meetings known so well I'm going to do it this time is I'm going to take without objection I'm going to listen to bills I know some of you in the audience have traveled a great distance to be here today to testify so I don't want to have to keep you here to capital so those that what about people signed up to give testimony we're going to hear those bills at this time and do the work through as many as we can so that you'll be free to go and then by the plans are to recess around noon and we'll come back ten minutes upon adjournment to finish up the rest of agenda the agenda so that's the chair's planet this time so the next item on today's agenda will be house bill sixteen fourteen. Mister chair with your permission I have to that I need to have at the table. You're recognized. Thank you damn Vaught District eighty seven. Representive RJ hog District eighty one. He's ward executive director Springdale water utilities and legislative chair for the Arkansas water wastewater manners sociais tional representative out you're recognized to present your bill thank you Mr chair today I'm bringing to you house bill sixteen fourteen which is the water sewer treatment facility grant program in twenty twenty one the department of agriculture survey shows a current level of five billion dollars and growing in water. Wastewater project needs around the state so what if this trajectory the trajectory keeps going at a potential for failing facilities like in Memphis Tennessee which the people without water for a week and Jackson Mississippi capacity challenges in areas of growth possible moratoriums on residential and economic development we already don't have enough of the homes in the state of Arkansas I'd hate to see a moratorium on us trying to build more more homes in our state the goal of this legislation is sustainability. I'm going sources for finding that over that can over time move us forward and start getting some of these projects completed and catches. Our water sewer infrastructure closer to up to date this bill will establish the water and sewer treatment facility grant fund may fifty million annually from securities reserve fund into the grant fund rules will be set by the natural resource in the department of agriculture. And language requirements matching grant mast so the cities and counties must have skin in the game or the project must have skin in the game projects need to be shovel ready projects ready to move the outcome of this bill would be fifty million over ten year period over a ten year period to make significant of five hundred million thank you five hundred million over a ten year period to make significant process on the five billion in current need projects there is no impact on the RSA no impact on surplus and no impact on remaining are but funds. And with that I'll let Mister representative. Hawk. Five thank you Mr thank you committee this bill is extremely important to me as well as other cities across the state for many of you you know that I represent selling County blind Alexander chin and hills and right now as a former city councilman a blind we got hit three years ago by eighty two to replace fifteen million dollars of outdated infrastructure that had to be done within five years tell like Bryant's doesn't exactly have fifteen million dollars to roll into their all water reserve in so we had to go in and raise the water rates in Little Brian Arkansas now they're number three in the State of Arkansas to help pay for this I know Helena West Helena they're having issues with their water issues right now this is a an issue across the entire state of Arkansas not just in buying not just in Eastern Arkansas it's it's everywhere and I think we've we've got a gentleman here they can also attest Northwest Arkansas and so when you look at this bill yes you see you see a large number but I I think the big thing about this bill is that there's no impact on the RSA there's no impact on the surplus and there's no impact on the old on the funds that statute for everyone and it's a grant proposal that the of the municipalities or counties they've got to be ready to go right when they apply for they've got to have skin in the game they've got to the grant they're gonna have to put in their own money to get be eligible for the grant I just think the extra help especially since code is changed as far as the infrastructure needs this would go a long way to fixing our entire state. Thank you I'm gonna try not to repeat some of the points that have already been made but there is infrastructure need in Arkansas and areas of growth and also areas where there's not a lot of growth that's aging infrastructure infrastructure specially sewer infrastructure just by its nature of what it does does degrade over time that requires maintenance what is happened in places like flint Michigan we mention Memphis we mentioned that the terrible situation in Jackson. A lot of that was that maintenance and repairs had not been done over time this just didn't happen overnight these are things that happen over years and years and years for different reasons and I'm not gonna going to all those but this is a good bill not just because it's it neutral on the budget in the surplus but it's going to help communities large and small and one thing the Arkansas water wastewater manages Association really insisted on this bill is it was not a handout that there had to be a one for one match or something like that where people had skin in the game and had to have some ownership on these projects. The other aggravating factor we have right now in Arkansas and I'll give you a specific example is not just Arkansas it's all over the United States we've had supply chain issues which we've all heard about read about but the specific story all give is we've just started a water waste water or wastewater upgrade and in the Spring Hill plant the regional engineers estimate three years ago is twenty five million dollars as we got closer to bid a few months ago that estimate became forty five million dollars. We only got two bidders on that project the first bid was almost eighty million dollars the second bid almost fell of my chair the second bid was fifty two and I was grateful to get that so that's also another impact on our communities that that is just huge right now projects are coming in at ten twenty three percent more than even the S. the current estimates so those are the challenges we face in this is also a positive and impact on economic development for communities. And like I always like to say the end of any talk like this one thing that you will know from history that no civilization last very long or does very well without clean water and effective treatment of wastewater thank you. Any questions from committee members. Representative Richmond you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair I'm sorry but apologize here I think I drifted off to a happier place for moment and missed. Something hearing that you say there's no impact on our our as a budget or surplus so where is the impact what is a majority reserve fund all right thank you. Representative to make sure recognized for a question thank you Mr and that was kind of my question the money was coming from where the security's Reserve Fund tell me about that fund I don't guess I'm familiar with it. That a state fund federal fundamentals in that fund who controls it. That would be money that perhaps is invested in some kind of instrument by the state treasurer and then that would be the interest earnings from from those investments more last I'm speaking very broadly. Okay well. Recognized and so since we're taken that and to those interests I'm assuming right now that interest goes back into general revenue so. Is that the case or someone here from the treasurer's office to let us know what the impact would be or. It doesn't come from the general revenues it doesn't impacted. Why I know doesn't come from but that money would generally go into. Generally it would but right now there are other other projects are the things that are now funded by those funds I'll give you specific examples the correction farm fun the Department of military fund the disaster assistance fund the miscellaneous revolving fund in this state Central Services Fund as long as well as the state board of election commissioners so those already being funded by this this revenue that's coming in this is not part of the general revenue I would assume that anything left over from that would go into the general fund at some point but we're just asking to be put in this this line of people and this bill also ensures that these entities that are ahead of the line will get funded first and we're just asking to be put in that line was under represented make some Intel that's like the catastrophic fund okay and then so my my and believe me I'm all for that this is definitely a problem that needs to be to be address I just wanna make sure we understand what the any idea how much that money how much that is going to amount to because you're asking for fifty million dollars a year how much is that going to generate to be able to put into this fund to be able to help our communities well so right now it's one projection over ten years it would be five hundred million dollars over a ten year time span that's what's been told us through so the survey was done to the Department agriculture saying that right now there's roughly about five billion dollars across the state that needs infrastructure needs and so now my my website and those with the road with the reserve funds security finds that they they calculated that and said that over a ten year period with the project needed there's gonna be about five hundred million into the account because of that if you are that your question I've made a note on my question was. How much I know I understand what the need was how much is this interest going to after we take out everybody else how much is this going to actually put into that fund so I know fifty is the ask but is it only get you know is it going to generate fifty are we only talking about two three four million dollars there's a hundred billion in there right now hundred million sorry sorry hundred million in there right now okay. Just. A committee members. Represented more. The no yes Committee vision with legislators and the presentation of a bill or a table thank you that's okay hi go ahead manage the question. Hi. Two million you have a question okay representative back you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman and. Last year the end of last year there were a lot of people that submitted projects water projects and so on so forth and majority those got. Put to the side of. I mean there were there wasn't funds out I don't remember the exact comparison so. I think my question is related to these funds. It sounds like we're just going to start again. Over again everybody's comply again which is exactly what we did the end of last year people had applied in a second I'll get this new moneys now we're going to have everybody apply again. And now it seems like we're doing the exact same thing again Fite concern isn't it sounds I actually that the same players are in charge of these monies why wouldn't we go back to where we were back then and use those applications I mean I know people that put a lot of money to develop those applications are now we're saying we need you to do it again This B. this will be the third time that so that was done. So yes go ahead well what makes this is it in in a lot of ways you're right and that was also one of our concerns we we just don't want a bunch of applications to pile up what makes Barbara in this process we went through earlier a little bit different does a finite sun set on those funds. The second thing is is that these funds would not have a sunset clause on them so they they could be theoretically carried over from year to year. one thing. That is specified in the bill that would keep people just from getting in line applying is you need to be ready to go to bed so that's really gonna bring the number of people down who applies for these funds most projects even the ones in Arkansas some of them weren't even bed yet or some of them may not have been in progress very stages but the intent of this bill it be that I have to be ready to go ready to bid that project that means I'm locked cocked and and ready to go to the braces. And put that money to work right away. Did you Richmond you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair is is there. Because I'm you know this problem is a result of long term to collect because nobody wants to ask anybody to pay more in water rates I don't want to do it you don't want to nobody does. So we go through this process we use the state funding and then you know here in ten fifteen twenty years whatever what are we going to do to keep from being in the exact same spot again are we going to be willing seeks to raise rates to prevent and maintain these things so we don't end up in the same spot well that's a that's a very good concern and that's been a problem a cyclical problem. In Arkansas for years and even in our industry we ask the question why do we keep throwing money at something and you know you're still paying of about fifty per thousand and there's just not the will so a few years ago what arose out of a contentious process at first resulted in a bill that we thought was really good and that was ACT six oh five and it is being amended this but essentially it staying the same is going to be there is a House bill fifteen fifteen I believe it's just a a cleanup bill but ACT six oh five requires cities and communities to do rate studies every five years and requires them requires them to put aside those monies into maintenance funds I believe that a minimum of five percent back to be spent on those assets for the future so they are maintained and sustained. And to add to that part of it ACT six oh five I I mention the blind issue that we had because of Act six oh five we also did an audit and and I. eighty Q. came in and said based off the audit that we weren't up to code and so they told us we had to consent action order for up to fifteen million dollars in infrastructure needs in into our system and so that was state mandated of the fifty million dollars. Okay your guess at a better needed to represent Hawks so thank you Mr. The representative Wardlaw you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair if you follow me to page three in its may be for the job from Arkansas next resources. We just administered those grants in December I guess we decided in December where those grants we had that were paid for through our bus was there additional staff that was was hat was hired to do that Mr I may have a follow up after the answers is. That would I don't know the answer that to my knowledge no but I would not be the authoritative emerging on that in thank you so so if you go to page three line Page three line three this is a commission may hire personnel necessary to carry out the duties and administer the program I mean are you going to hire these people and pay them out of the fifty million dollars or we can use fifty million dollars to get grants out there and why would we need staff to administer this grant program at fifty million dollars when we had a three hundred million dollar grant we did not have to hire anybody for. I couldn't answer that with any authority but I would assume that may be because or is super pacs to perpetuity to this I think before a vote on the fifty million dollar grant I'm on need to know. What's going to happen with personnel are how you're going to work that personnel issue out because you have it in the bill and the way it reads you're gonna pay for that after out of the fifty million dollars and that's kinda ridiculous C. so I'm what I'm being told is that for the department the A. R. and see that would be doing these grants not for the people who are receiving the grants. I understand that but you're paying for those people with the Department out of this great Mr I'm sorry but no you're recognized. They don't necessarily have to hire anybody either. Okay so I'm being told they don't necessarily have to hire anybody well that's in the bill it. Okay. It's it's it's says may I thought it doesn't say shall. It does say may but I'm not going to give them that permission at this point I like to use that money to hire additional personnel when they just did one six times is being in it and have to have anybody I mean that's come on that's ridiculous. Okay so would you like me to pull it down and take that piece out for you think that's probably where we're at okay. I can do that but the vote. Yes Mister chairman apple the bill down and fix that part is there another part representative board law that you would like to be fixed also I'll be with you okay. Thank you Mr chair the we do have a couple people signed up to speak against the bill and I'm not sure how poor they had to travel But not sure we don't need to hear their testimony today if they that they still want to testify I want to give them that opportunity that to pay toward missed word did you did you still are that you okay we've already okay and Michael Clayton. Thank you for a new utility that we're going to pull bill down today but you're here to speak For the bill so do you want to go ahead speak today you want to come by when the bills arrival has speak while I'm here okay my name recognized I'm sorry thank you chair of my name is Michael Clayton I'm the director of North Little Rock wastewater so I'm local I can come back I have to and but I'm also the president Arkansas water wastewater managers association and my colleague heath ward spoke on our behalf and we do fully support the bill and the the the or funds have never released recently gave out a wave of funds for communities across the state of Arkansas and however there are much more need to that are out there in terms of large utilities and small utilities and in our case of North Little Rock wastewater I'm just being very specific here we ninety nine applications with the the art of funds and we did not receive any of those those those grants and up this program here what I believe it's important to know is you have to get that applies and is eligible for funding well actually I have a fifty percent you will have to match the grant so it's a one to one ratio and up and then payments again in the in the game isn't is important part is not like to me these entities that we heard about where is or not being responsible to raise rates to pay their operation expenses into the necessary improvements I wait till I get to the point that I'm their backs up against a wall and wait for somebody to come bail amount here that's not what this program is designed to do this program is designed to help us take that next level of improvement where is beyond just operational revenues or expenses the utilities have here so I wanna. Offer my support for the bill and handy be it be available take any questions twenty two. Any questions from committee members. It's got. What what she's asking you questions. That's not already being here representative Scott from North Little Rock and so I just wanted to know we have the matching funds right if we were approved for any of the applications and he said we submitted nine last time we didn't get any of them approved but as the city we're in a position to move forward if this program is put in place right absolutely absolutely. Any further questions for me committee members say none no one is signed up to speak for against the bill represents about you're recognized pull your bill down and we'll reschedule that when you notify the chair thank you Mr Mr thank you. Committee members we've got exposure to testify against Bill or try to get this bill and before I know we got other meetings at the noon but let's do the best we can is house bill sixteen ten representative Bentley. The bridge Bentley you're recognized to present house bill sixteen ten thank you chairman thank you committee for dealers to say here I know it's been a long day so I bring G. house bill sixteen ten a bill that I'm really passionate about and excited about I thank the Arkansas we we know that we live in nice's America we are our constitutional Republic and the people that are elected to service and I believe that we have people that have been elected by our constituents that have for decades not been able to serve the constituents in in full capacity and that's why bring this bill to you today as I was going through campaign this last I get to meet with some J. peas and I didn't realize I paid to say that I've been in this house this chamber for seven years and didn't realize at that point that they cannot even talk to each other they get an ordinance in the mail that cannot call the sponsor of that ordinance and say what is going on this what we're trying to fix and talk to each other without it being open public meeting that cannot communicate with each other like you and I do every day as members of the House we get to visit with each other we can study I can send you emails I could talk to about information I get and we can do a good job or concessions but unfortunately we have tied the hands of our JP's our school board members and I will allow them to not even talk to each other communicate to each other and do it effective job they're not even paid to me this is a very small amount of money they get for committee meeting to go and they serve the constituency to me on a volunteer basis because if they do anything else at that committee they're not paid to do it they do because I love their community they've been elected by their constituents to going to serve them and we have tied their hands and not that them to be able to do a good job they cannot go out and visit with constituents together and talking get feedback I want to share locally would have been a Perry County we had two years of intense Services hanging on a string part of that time with him and have and what services in foreign as that have worked with emergency services out there my community been a first responder out there I was just appalled that what's going to happen with my with my family members I have reckoned the highway at by me so or two years with a. Yes and with the service so we have tied the hands are JPC tie the hands of a school board members of what we've done is He's won I won they can plan things and get things done with their county judge with the superintendent we've heard our constituents we have stopped the representative Republic that we have right here we've not allowed our constituents to be served well by the JP's of the quorum court's and so I started looking at that and I visit was but that didn't question what is going on so my first thought is what what the words every of the state around this doing what we're doing in Texas and Louisiana Mississippi and all those places and every single one of the states that surround us if you look at their definition in their definition of a public meeting they or they have a majority of or quorum up to make it can situate at a public meeting and so those guys around this can have come together and visit and do a good job of their constituents but here in Arkansas our constituents are not getting Sir by the JP's of the school board members or the commission members because they cannot visit a good conscience and have a good discussion say even go to a social action can is Megan say don't that's going to give a let's go find it would grants available for constituents let's talk on the way there let's talk the way back in the student's job for constituents we have tied their hands they can't do that but every state around this allows it to do that I found out today that not only is every state around us allowed to do that forty seven states have either a quorum of what three more members for to be a public meeting we're only one of three states that have tied the hands of our of our J. P. members school board members again in my opinion our volunteers this small amount of money that they get to serve their constituents to do a good job so today I bring you some that I think is a very simple thing this three WordStar definition as the word a quorum of two public meetings so it's less than a quorum this casting get together visit and talk just like you and I do every day and I I think I understand why people are frustrated because they the tech the frustrations I have a motion DC they're so mad was going on I meant to I'm appalled was going on a motion to see right now in our absolute. Horrible Administration we have right now I'm appalled as they are and the First Street was goes on the DC and they're taking that anger and the passing it down to one thing everybody selected as wicked and evil doing correct things but I can tell you one thing if you're going to do something nefarious you can do it right now we don't care what the law says you do it anyway so those people the pants that were tying of those good people they care by the constituents that wanted to get them for their County they want to get a good and a service for heaven's sake to to two years in Perry County because they couldn't even talk to each other biz and filed with the good things that are going on so I'm not going to blame for this we've been here awhile I'll take any questions from you guys and I have people that driven here to talk about them to be able to talk and answer questions of committee members have questions. Committee members. If you to property you have a question. Yes thank you Mr chair. Merry helped me a little bit here I've been on boards. Most of my life. And a lot of those boards didn't have a quorum. But we continued we couldn't do any official business. But we discuss official business. And so. I understand where you're coming from totally. But I also think that if we're not careful we're going to get it to a place where the in. If we didn't have to take minutes in our meetings when we did that. Then the community wouldn't know what we had talked about with the money they were given us so can you help me with that sure we're not stopping any public minister said I have the public meetings when they get together and take minutes and talk about this is just saying what they're doing to forty seven other states are allowing for you to visit this with one of the member they can't even do that you're not supposed to legally even visit with another member bus and it has to do the business of your want to call in touch if you get you know an idea that you want to discuss the number of another member on there so what do you think about that is that a good idea bad idea it saves time to that when you get together as a committee you can do a whole lot better job I get a lot more down this by product but I brought about would have been a Perry County with tickets two years dear I am a service messed up because this task again the phone to talk the only time I could legally talk to each other about it was in when they get in the a quorum court meeting once one hour once a month so you really delays things This allows you to make your time when you get together to do public business to take a vote to do business. That you have knowledge base there we have some questions answered you can be more effective and efficient this really is about me and more effective efficient one when you're together okay I mean other states even allow seven not taking a vote that is not a public meeting we're being very here still seek informal or formal meetings as long as it's not a quorum present you can't take a vote into official business that's not a public meeting it just allows you to be more effective and efficient as a J. P. I'll bring a couple instances I know someone that wanted to be here that couldn't be here today and she and two members want to go there they're talking able to service their county to the General counties or hurt by it are struggling for eight months to to them want to talk to a another some other EMS board to talk about so this to quorum court members went together to talk to some in Moscow as in their county and they were sent a letter a lawsuit threat because they went as to quorum court members to talk to a couple EMS guys a volunteer fire department was in the county. We're trying their hands of two members can't even don't talk to EMS guys in their county or threatening them with a lawsuit. It's crazy other can't either forty seven other states allow these member to do a good job and we're tying the hands of ours I know that people think this guy's gonna fall they were going to destroy our freedom of information act has nothing to do with documentation we don't have a bunch of wicked evil people elected and everybody acting like it was selected Johnson correct with that thing these people are doing this on a volunteer basis to help the people and their committee to do a good job that's all we're trying to do. Any further questions from committee members. The representative Gazaway you're recognized for a question thank you Mr chair we're gonna hear from municipally. I have should the of six people are no correction eight people signed up to speak against the bill. And Your question whether we're going to hear again a proposed from the municipally of. Thank you senator. Let me check Senator signed up to speak. Representative they are not signed up but I think they're in the room. So I guess we have to take that but I'll keep that in mind. Thank you okay. Representative more you have a question thank you Mr chair is there a reason you went with quorum over using a language three or more members. I just thought it was our the states around us since I was falling with that in Texas and Oklahoma and I just you know I what is working well for them with certain work well France it was very simple thing to meet the requirements. Further questions from grow represent clan you're recognized for a question thank you Mr chair representative billing can you walk me through a little bit the process of why you decided to a quorum language rather than just kind of get rid of all of the requirements in other words why is this a problem when there are a quorum or more who are together but not less in your mind just trying to allow legally for less than a quorum to get together meet and discuss issues that's why. Incense and that maybe I'm not understanding the question represent no I didn't say that well I am I guess my can my question is what do you think is the public policy interest in maintaining that these things before able if there is a quorum. Of people who are together yeah I think it's important for us to have open up open and honest and transparent I'm not trying to stop transparent government and all this and lease them trying to do so I wanted to make sure that we left the left informal informal in there so I think what we're doing I was in the least amount possible that makes sense to keep it is open and transparent as possible just want to allow some members to get together visit discuss what I think are important issue thank you representative Gonzalez you're recognized for a question so is it is true that they can't conduct any official business without a quorum present right so these meetings at the if they if it were just one or two or three year or whatever anything less than a quorum that they can't make any official decisions and conduct actually conduct business right exactly right that's why thank you that came up with that definition so. And I mean others other states are putting even more farm thing there to make sure you know that is I mean the more lenient to allow more things to happen but I left informal part in there is I'm trying to do is listen as possible not try to get ready transparent government in any form or fashion just trying to allow Arkansas issues get well served by the JP's and school board members and district and get rid of what we I think we have you know given to much. A leeway to the county judges reduce so much and the mayor's of that can't get input from those people that are in their districts so. Representative Gazaway you're recognized for a question thank you Mr chairman I understand that the Municipal League is here I do have some questions for them if they would be willing to come to the table. So I mean I would request that if they're willing and for informational purposes and I ask them to take a position on the bill one way or the other. Someone from the Municipal League you would just have stated in the table. Identify yourself to the committee. Yes my name's Lannie Richmond senior legal counsel the Arkansas Municipal League okay representative Gazaway you're recognized to prepare your question thank you Mr chairman of Mister Richmond so I just want to clarify for the committee and and make sure that I. I have a good understanding which I think I do. As far as city. Officials who made the list specifically city council members for instance if you have to city council members who are meeting at a restaurant say and the issue of city business comes up. While they're having lunch together. And that is considered a meeting currently under the law for purposes of for you is that correct. Yes representive our best advice is to say Hey you've got to shut that conversation down we know it's just incidental if you had a ball game and you start talking too much about the football teams and you know it's part of the city then you may have to shut down the conversation that is that's our current advice okay follow up. Recognized and then the I seem to or seem to recall there is this concept of the serial meeting In a course of representative cities and so it advising mayors and city council members about this but my recollection is that if they may or for instance wants to discuss business related to the city with council members in advance of the meeting. That the mayor could meet with one council member to discuss business but if you have a very rapid succession after that met with another council member maybe even just a phone call but if the if the mayor called several council members in a row or met with several council members in a row that's considered a serial meeting which would then be subject boy and be a violation. Yes represented exactly I I think somehow comment on the bill itself just very briefly is represent clients your question I think the serial meetings will still be a prohibited if it hits that quorum points that they're still that tipping point you can still violate this that it's not just saying this is always fine but if you start doing serial and you go to a quorum you violated the following. Recognized thank you Mr chairman. And so one thing I think that may be important for the committee to understand is a violation of the freedom of information act in these particulars so to members of the council meeting at a restaurant having lunch together who incidentally begin discussing business under current law that's a misdemeanor is that not it is our intent and it would be the same thing for a mayor who who might call a couple of council members in succession to talk about city business would be committing a crime under current law yes Sir in the current standard is negligence there's no sort of intent behind it's just even if you accidentally do it that's that's the punishment one you're recognized thank thank you Mr chairman my last one for now So. I understand you represent a municipally got easily cities but this applies to lots of different governmental entities not just cities that we could talk about school boards quorum court's other other entities can you give the committee some description of who all the supplies to I I think all those that I really you know our policy is pretty much any any government entity except for this body pretty much it it's going to apply to I don't know of any government entity it doesn't do if you have decision making power in your the government it it applies to you except except for the state legislature. Thank you. Other questions from committee members. But did you guys all of. So I'm I'm being told that The jacket that up city could pass an ordinance what with one member shy of a quorum is that is that accurate how how does that. Work and then sent it needs to be three a meeting of at least three in this but because things can get past I think you the only possible way that they could be someone could be thinking about that is that our mayor when I votes necessary to pass can cast the passing vote but to pass anything you're gonna need a set number of affirmative votes in a municipality if you've got five you're gonna have to have three positive votes six left of four positive votes and that that will always be the case we we always requirement Jordy of the whole we never have less than a quorum making a decision and in my experience. Okay thank you. The questions from committee members. Representative Scott. British got. representative Gonzalez asked my question but I guess I'm just needing clarity on one or two members can't do official business right Karass ordinance that yes ma'am thank you. The public questions from committee members. Saying none. Committee and those in attendance we are most of well we have a noon hour twelve o'clock hello others have got places to be and I was trying to get as many as much testimony and as we could I know some of I know I have a people were they people signed up to speak on this bill I'm just asking you I don't want to inconvenience you and I know it's been very patient there's more and I do plan on coming back after a we're going to recess and then we just come back after a session today ten minutes and we'll just pick back up where we left off but if any of you travel to great distance and you want to give your testimony now we will try to accommodate you and doing so if you can wait and be back in this room ten minutes after we adjourned today from session that's we will pick up so you let me now we just raise your hand if you feel like you want to testify mail on the Committee will hang in there with you have to be brave because we are on a tight schedule so if all of you be back later this afternoon I know I appreciate it speak for the committee and so at this time we're going to recess and we will Come back ten minutes a bona government from the session thank you very much.