JBC-Claims
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Speaker 2
0:00
I don't know, I think, wait a minute. I'm getting my affairs on with her. Yeah.
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claims review and litigation reports oversight subcommittee of the joint budget committee will come to order the chairman sees a quorum we have just a few items of business today and at the outset thank you for everyone's flexibility i know we had to uh reset the meeting to uh to this afternoon so apologies for uh that move but appreciate everybody being here today so the first
item of business are the litigation settlements we have two to consider both from the department of corrections the first is carolyn arnett versus larry norris et al and i'll ask who will present these will it be the department or will it be i guess the department okay if y'all come forward have a seat and if you would introduce yourselves and then you can present the settlement
Speaker 19
9:06
wade hodge chief of staff department of corrections michelle banks
Speaker 21
9:12
senior assistant attorney general state of arkansas all right as i mentioned there's two
Representative Ashley Hudson
Unverified
9:16
proposed settlements we'll take up the first which is the carolyn arnett versus larry norris et all we'll be happy to answer any questions i believe
Speaker 29
9:29
you have a summary in your packet okay are there any questions from the committee and
Representative Ashley Hudson
Unverified
9:36
just for clarity this is this is a proposed
settlement that uh both both sides uh both plaintiffs and defendants desire to be entered into and the department is bringing forward uh with the recommendation that we uh approve that's correct any questions from the
members representative hudson you're recognized for a question all right there
Representative Ashley Hudson
Unverified
10:06
you go thank you mr chair um just in reviewing the summary it it it says
that the events were alleged to have occurred for four years have there been any changes to policies or practices to ensure that this type of long-term sexual assault by
Speaker 27
10:26
a guard doesn't happen again yes currently the Department of Corrections is undergoing audits for compliance with Priya the prison rape Elimination Act and those will help us make sure that we have practices in
place this particular individual had a window in his office and he had blocked part of that window and and we're making sure that things like that don't happen anymore representative Wooten
Chair
Unverified
10:56
you're recognized for a question I understand it a
Representative Jim Wooten
Unverified
11:04
check will be issued by the Department of Corrections for the total amount yes sir have y'all taken action to be sure that she's transferred to
where she wants to go or where you want to send her is
Speaker 27
11:26
that part of the agreement been fulfilled part of the agreement was to evaluate her to see if she was at the correct facility okay and and of course we really only have the only one women's unit so she's at
Chair
Unverified
11:40
the proper spot thank thank you mr chairman senator dismay you're recognized for
Senator Jonathan Dismang
Unverified
11:45
question so 2014 was the last incident when did become when when did y'all become aware 2014 that's a long
Speaker 46
11:55
time ago yes sir the report was
made within the department in december of
Speaker 24
12:00
2014 this is actually the second iteration of this lawsuit it was originally brought in 2017 it was non-suited in 2020 um it's my understanding the plaintiff was attempting to go through clemency and then it was refiled in 2021 the same lawsuit and it has progressed to today through when was the chaplain terminated actually the chaplain
had resigned in September 2014 and the claims came to light in December 2014 and we're just now taking action to be able
Senator Jonathan Dismang
Unverified
12:35
to make sure it doesn't happen again if I understood correctly or we're the process of the audits to make sure it doesn't happen again 12 years later but yeah
Speaker 27
12:44
we we've undergone some other things it's just that the pre-audits are an additional on top of other things that we've done just making sure people don't have their windows blocked that really doesn't have anything to do with the audits uh we just you know we're making sure that things
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
12:58
like that don't happen again yeah i mean i'm not
Representative Ashley Hudson
Unverified
13:18
other questions Is there a motion to approve? Representative Wooten, is there a second? Representative Collins. Any discussion on the motion to approve? All in favor say aye. Any opposed?
Motion passes. That takes us to item B2, another litigation settlement from the Department of Corrections. Latasha is it Ridgel versus Arkansas Department of Corrections and I'll ask that those at the table introduce themselves then if there's any presentation y'all may proceed Wade Hodge Chief of Staff Department of Corrections Senior Assistant Attorney General Trey Cooper on behalf of
Speaker 55
13:52
the State of Arkansas and the Department of Corrections and again Mr. Chair there's a summary in your
questions And once again, this is a settlement all sides have agreed to, and it's now brought forward for approval. That's correct. Any
Speaker 58
14:10
question from the committee? Give you a moment to take a look.
representative Hudson you're recognized for a question I thank you mr. chair I
Representative Ashley Hudson
Unverified
14:46
see that this was initially filed in 2019 why are we still why is this
been going on for seven years I you know I and look I I'm an attorney I get that litigation takes a while but um this seems
Speaker 55
15:02
excessive i am uh i think the fourth or fifth attorney that's been on this through
turnover in our office but i know that covid played a role in the in the in the delay and the uh the attorney for the plaintiff is from washington dc and i think that presented some challenges with getting things discovery and things like that scheduled um but that that's the best i can give you as to why it's taken so long to get to this point.
Representative Ashley Hudson
Unverified
15:31
Follow up. You're recognized. Is this at the same facility as the first settlement? No. Okay. I just, my concern is that we've got two settlements here today that deal with
allegations of sexual harassment and sexual assault and so I'm concerned that this may be sort of a pervasive issue uh dating back you know at least to 2010 um and to senator disming's point have there been measures being taken prior to now to try to ensure that this doesn't happen to
Speaker 27
16:06
other uh staff and inmates one thing i can tell you is since that time um some of the actions that one particular inmate in particular was doing are now a felony and so the
legislature changed that law and that's something we asked for because inmates were exposing themselves to our guards and so that's that's something that has certainly been of a help and we can't always get those prosecuted but we do try thank you any other questions
Representative Ashley Hudson
Unverified
16:46
seeing none is there a motion to approve senator Bryant motion its second
second any discussion all in favor say aye any
opposed the motion passes members
this is a denied and dismissed claim from the claims Commission that was appealed by the claimants it was taken up by
Representative Ashley Hudson
Unverified
17:19
ALC claims review and then referred over it was taken up just a few weeks ago and was referred over to our committee as we were going into session
ms irby is here from the claims commission and i'll recognize her to introduce herself and
then she can make any presentation she'd like to make katherine irby i'm the director of the claims commission if
Speaker 73
17:47
the committee would like to hear a procedural history
Speaker 75
17:51
of this claim i'm happy to provide it i think that would
Representative Ashley Hudson
Unverified
17:58
i know there's one is there one in you do that you can okay why don't
we let staff give us a summary and then you can add to uh anything you think is pertinent i think that would be important too because i know there's not everybody on this committee is the
Speaker 77
18:17
same as was on the alc claims committee so thank you this is claim number 251123 sharon greer and deanna hayes versus the commissioner of state lands the claimants sought unspecified relief relating to the sale of their grandparents property for back taxes in 2009 alleging that proper notification
did not occur at the time of the sale and that the sale price exceeded the amount of back taxes Respondent denied liability and moved to dismiss the claim and the Claims Commission granted the motion finding that the Claims Commission did not have jurisdiction to hear the claim. Any applicable statute of limitations had expired. The claimants failed to state facts on which relief could be granted and the Commission did not have the ability to grant relief. Claimants now appeal. Thank you, Ms. Johnson.
Ms. Irby, anything to add to that procedurally? Not procedurally, no, sir. Okay, anything else you'd like to add
Speaker 75
19:15
as far as a presentation? Well, I was going to say that there were several bases upon which the commission dismissed this claim, as Ms. Johnson laid out. One is the statute of limitations, and in this case, the claimant's claim for the exact type of relief that she was seeking was not specified, and so the agency, they listed out a number of statute of limitations.
If this is what she's seeking, this is the statute, and she's outside the time to file. If this is what she's seeking, she's outside the statute and this is the time. So in the commission's order, paragraph 7, it lays out a number of those statute of limitations and it makes it clear that she is outside the time period to file any of these, regardless of the type of relief that she sought. Also, the commission found that there is a process for setting aside a sale, a tax delinquent sale, and that process is set out in Arkansas Code Annotated 2637204G1
and the commission found that the claimants had not followed that process. The first step of that process is to tender in cash or certified funds an amount equal to all taxes, penalties, interest, and costs charged against the tax delinquent land and you have to pay it into the registry of the court and that hasn't been done and that's the first step that is required under Arkansas law in order to try to set aside a sale of tax delinquent delinquent lands and then the last thing i wanted to point out is that under arkansas code 2637204f and i'm going to quote this it says
the commissioner of state lands shall not be liable for any monetary damages to any owner interested party or purchaser of tax delinquent land for any action taken or any omission of action related to the sale of tax delinquent land so i would submit to you that arkansas law would mandate and affirm affirm
Speaker 82
21:07
affirming the commission's decision in this case with
Representative Ashley Hudson
Unverified
21:10
regard you've mentioned the statute limitations and i'm i'm looking at the order
so this property was sold which is the claimant's grandparents property it was sold for back taxes in 2009 is that correct do you know when the uh when they were actually certified to the state when the when the property was certified to the state or or for what years the taxes were not paid that i do not know that
Speaker 75
21:36
would be a question better directed to the agency i do know that this claim wasn't filed until early 2025
though okay so so we have a sale of property in 2009 it was
the grandparents property and then it was uh the claim was made in 2025 yes one other question um just initially was there any uh proof related to if were the grandparents alive when the property was certified to the state and sold and and i guess my question ultimately is was there any proof related to who who would be the who were the rightful heirs to any asset of
Speaker 75
22:20
the estate or claim of the estate so that that issue did not come we did not get that far down the track on this claim um it was filed by two relatives um i believe the grandchildren okay but there was not a question to find out do we have a lot of other heirs who might potentially have interest here it certainly wasn't brought on behalf of all of all
heirs okay thank you is there someone from the commissioner of state lands here and
Representative Ashley Hudson
Unverified
22:48
i i would ask that you come forward and if you could shed any light on the just initially on the years involved and then i
believe are the claimants here okay so we'll we'll uh have an opportunity for y'all to come forward and
Speaker 94
23:09
speak as well. Peyton Murphy, I'm the General Counsel for the Land Commissioner's Office. This parcel is in Crittenden County, and it was originally certified to the Land Commissioner for delinquent taxes in August of 2007.
the land sold after proper notice was delivered in July of 2009 during the course of our notice exercising our notice requirements we received three green cards basically certified mail receipts back believe we determined that these were sent these were signed for by the maybe the daughter and the son-in-law of the original owners
in addition to that another notice was sent after the property was sold that notice was sent to the same address that we had successfully delivered this original notice informing them that there would be excess proceeds available okay so with regard to the
Representative Ashley Hudson
Unverified
24:20
addresses used on notice are those addresses pulled from basically the assessor's records as to
who as to where the tax bills are to be sent yes that is the first place
Speaker 94
24:30
we look of course and we go we do a limited title search to
search for other interested parties we notice any interested parties that we can find we also employ skip tracing methods to find other potential addresses out there but the the ab you know i believe in this case the actual address that we did get certified notice to them was the
Representative Ashley Hudson
Unverified
24:52
address that was on file with the collector's office and then you mentioned that you attempted to contact regard regarding the excess proceeds could you talk to the committee about what happens with excess proceeds and what is the commissioner's view of the process as to how those are handled
Speaker 94
25:08
certainly at at the time that this was sold there was a one-year waiting period in in order to get all the taxes any taxes owed paid after the property sold before a person could come back and claim excess proceeds so the date that they could have claimed those excess proceeds began and would begin in 2010 at the time those excess
proceeds remained available to be claimed for three years so after three years past those excess proceeds would have escheated to the
Representative Ashley Hudson
Unverified
25:49
county once it is cheats to the county there's well i mean we have a claim pending on this but is it the commission is it the commissioner's position that once it goes to the county
there is no process by which the money can be recouped at that point yes i would say so okay all right any anything to add from miss Irby or the commissioner just in terms of the my questions or the kind of the initial presentation
of the claim I have nothing to add but I'm happy to take questions all right any
Senator Jonathan Dismang
Unverified
26:26
questions from the committee senator dismaying you're recognized for a question and it's just a little bit more maybe clarification what happens with excess proceeds because I've
heard some different members and I mean I think we probably need to have a conversation amongst members of what happens with a tax sale um but the you know one of the points made to me today and i'm just trying to because it couldn't be here was you know well number one we're being asked as the state of
arkansas to use general revenue to fund a claim for money that the county has received that makes absolutely i find that a hard thing to make sense the argument back to me was well sometimes we lose the counties lose money on tax sales well this is excess proceeds no one lost anyone everyone's been made whole that was owed anything because there were excess proceeds which that's the amount above and beyond the taxes penalties processing fees all those other things that
took place to you know have the sale my question is is and then the point was so they're losing money on other sales so when it goes to the county helps make up for that the money that we paying property taxes widely goes to schools the money that we send back through express proceeds does not go to schools could you walk through what fund account that goes to at the county level just so everyone's clear it's
Speaker 104
27:43
not it's not normal i don't exactly have that full information before
Speaker 94
27:48
me but from my understanding what you have how you have described that as far as the county funding
Senator Jonathan Dismang
Unverified
27:54
is accurate yeah it's it's not so we're not making a school district whole by sending back excess proceeds to the county
and maybe what we should be having is a conversation of what we do with excess proceeds but again in this room and what we're talking about right now money was collected excess proceeds were collected we've given it to the county and now the state's being asked to come back up with it and then without any knowledge of even what the heirs are or the
lineage of the property or what we've already talked about a daughter and I mean who who is technically entitled to these excess it's a lot more complicated than maybe we're boiling it down I know some members just don't like property taxes I understand that trust me but that doesn't mean that we change and start using our general revenue to make up for someone's lack of knowledge about how to claim excess proceeds I know that maybe not where we're going but I feel like we need a little background representative Wooten you're recognized for a question thank you mr.
Representative Jim Wooten
Unverified
28:58
chairman the land commissioner has the burden of contacting whoever is the appropriate person in the sale of a property were their names on any any document that y'all had? The
Speaker 94
29:19
documents, the mail that we sent was addressed to them. It was signed for, let's see, the original owners of this property were Chris and Maudine Benton, Beaton.
I'm sorry, Chris and Maudine Beaton. One of the notices was signed for by Justin Strawn. Another was by Jane Strawn. and the third by jane strong uh from as far as i can tell we did find some obituaries those that is a daughter and a son-in-law of of the original owners well my question was
Representative Jim Wooten
Unverified
29:57
was their name mentioned shown anywhere that they should have been notified so
Speaker 94
30:03
what the law requires uh no
So their name did not actually come back on a
Representative Jim Wooten
Unverified
30:10
green card. So then we run into the situation regarding the statute of limitations. Even though they were no burden on y'all to notify them of the sale, they didn't find out about it until January of 25. My question is, is the statute of limitations five years, seven years, is it still relevant, or does it bear any consideration?
Speaker 94
30:43
I'm of the position that the statute of limitations has still long since expired. I
Representative Jim Wooten
Unverified
30:51
believe the language is... Then there's also the issue of 90 days, within 90 days of the conveyance of the land sold for back taxes must be commenced
within 90 days. Was anything commenced within
Speaker 104
31:07
90 days? No, and I should probably correct, I believe the deadline at that time was one
Representative Jim Wooten
Unverified
31:14
year, but no, nothing was commenced within one year. And then we have the situation with the statute states that the commission of state land shall not be liable for any monetary damages to any owner, interested party, or purchaser of tax delinquent land.
That's applicable here. Is that correct? I would say so. And their name was not on there to be notified. is that correct their name their name was not you didn't have access to their name to make notification to them of the sale of the property the claimant's name yes correct that's correct
Representative Andrew Collins
Unverified
31:53
okay we did not and so it's all right thank you thank you mr chairman representative collins you recognize for a
Speaker 118
31:59
question thank you mr chair this is really a question to the chair and possibly to
Representative Andrew Collins
Unverified
32:05
staff so my understanding and correct me if i'm wrong is that what this subcommittee does is really we look at these with respect to setting aside money to pay out the claims and what do we do in a case of a denied and dismissed claim like what are we being asked to do here in this subcommittee is it a review is it an approval or
what is it so my understanding is that it's that we would be taking up
Representative Ashley Hudson
Unverified
32:36
a motion to affirm the dismiss to affirm the ruling of the
claims commission as to this claim okay so we would be in essence approving the dismissal okay
then that's fine any other questions for miss irby or the commissioner's office at this
time seeing none at this time i'd like to bring the claimants forward and let them make a presentation and then open up to questions of them.
If you'll have a seat and then you can turn the microphone on and if you will introduce yourself and then I'll recognize you to make a presentation as to the claim
Speaker 128
33:31
that you have appealed to our committee. Okay, I'm Sharon Greer.
Speaker 130
33:35
I'm a granddaughter of Chris and Maldene Beaton. My whole issue with this is the final sale of the land was done, and I was sent a packet by Justin Phillips, who is the Arkansas State Land Commissioner.
Is that who? I think he is the supervisor. Okay. Okay. In the packet, the last letter that was sent for notification that the land had been sold and the instructions as to what to do with obtaining the
Speaker 133
34:16
overage, the $4,200, it was sent to my grandparents property that was sold and it was returned to this Arkansas
Speaker 134
34:27
state land commissioner office no one received instructions as to what
Speaker 130
34:34
to do when the land was sold for back taxes they were notified which I've already testified my mother was not she couldn't think straight she had hepatic failure and that's what she died of she signed papers the green slips yes of the notification my grandmother was still alive
Speaker 133
35:00
she could not make decisions for herself my grandfather passed in 2007 okay my grandmother could not make decisions for herself my mother did sign two green cards and my father signed one my father had he didn't know what to do with this but no one received
Speaker 130
35:20
instruction as to what to do and that there was an overage of $4,200 when this property was sold that's my problem with this whole thing no one was
Speaker 133
35:33
notified and I certainly did not receive any notification any any questions from the
committee representative Hudson you're recognized for a question thank you mr. chair and and
Representative Ashley Hudson
Unverified
35:54
thank you for being here so could you tell us how you came to find out about the sale because it says in our packet and I don't know that you have a copy of what we have it says claimants also alleged they did not learn of
the sale until january 8th 2025 so can you kind of tell us what happened between the
Speaker 133
36:12
sale in 2009 and 2025 and i know there were some years but here's the deed right here when my father's brother died in january of 2025 he lived in sulfer springs texas i went to the funeral of course he's my uncle I was given this by my cousin and this is the deed to the property in Crittenden County
that my grandparents paid for it was in his safe I don't know why it was in his safe I have no idea I don't know
Speaker 130
36:49
if my dad gave it to his brother or what but this is the deed that they paid for their land it has a ledger in it
Speaker 133
36:59
there's every payment that they made marked off and this is the deed I was given this at a funeral in January of 2025 by my cousin my siblings and I were like
Speaker 130
37:12
okay what happened so we started investigating as to what happened and we started making phone calls and we were told what happened and I was like but wait a minute we were not even notified of this and there's even an overage oh my goodness my grandparents you know property it got sold for back taxes I did not know and then there was an overage and so we asked well
what happened with the overage well it just went back to the state of
Speaker 133
37:49
Arkansas or whatever happens And I'm like,
Speaker 69
37:56
but why? You know? So that's what happened. And also, that is a relic that you have there. That's amazing. Yes.
Speaker 141
38:04
It's right here. It's the deed to their property. Yeah. So that's
Representative Ashley Hudson
Unverified
38:10
what happened. And follow-up. Correct. Yes. Is there any dispute about the amount of the back taxes and the overage?
Representative Ashley Hudson
Unverified
38:22
can give you the exact big well i mean i've got in the packet that the back taxes were 1396.61 that the parcel sold for 5596.61 and that the allegation is that that the department kept 4200 is that more or less correct okay thank you a couple
questions when the property was certified to the state
and and sold i understand your
grandparents were still alive at that
Speaker 130
38:59
point my grandfather i'm sorry i have to look at paper i'm i'm nervous um he died um august
Speaker 133
39:07
the 10th of 2007 and my mother who is their daughter carolyn jane beaten strong she died uh march the 2nd 2010 she was very ill and then my grandmother died two months after my mother did and she died on may the 25th 2010 my grandmother was still alive
Representative Ashley Hudson
Unverified
39:26
when this happened all right and the the and based on the the dates which you heard the testimony earlier um what we were told was that the property was certified to the to the state in 2007 and was sold in 2009 which I would assume that would have removed that tract from your grandparents tax statement so they would not have received any further property tax and there would have been no further tax paid am I is that consistent with your understanding that would
be my understanding is from the commissioner is that I believe that would be the normal practice Once
Representative Ashley Hudson
Unverified
40:09
it's certified, that would no longer be subject to payment of taxes because it's
Speaker 94
40:15
been certified to the state. Yes, as far as what I think you're saying. They would be getting these statements rather than bills from
Representative Ashley Hudson
Unverified
40:26
the tax collector. Well, I guess what I'm asking in part is that in my experience,
one of the ways people also in addition to all the notice that's provided everyone gets a real estate tax statement annually and that that is something that is sent to the taxpayer to pay and they can have the opportunity to review it if there has been a track that has been taken off that is another means by which the state and the county alert people to the fact that there may be an issue with their property okay
Speaker 94
41:00
i understand what you're saying and yes i would say that's
that's correct generally uh if this was the only piece of property that they owned in the state of arkansas they might not have got another statement after it's sold if they didn't have anything else on
there all right any any other questions senator bryant
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
41:22
you recognized for a question thank
you uh you made the statement that they sent the instructions of the overage to the property in
Speaker 130
41:30
question that was sold yes sir and it was returned and there's documentation of that it was returned to the commissioner of state lands and undelivered
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
41:39
undelivered and then there was there was subsequent mailings that went out that you stated that either you signed for your mother signed for or maybe your grandmother and your mother had signed for on two separate
Speaker 130
41:52
occasions what what was within those those those were instructions that the property was going to be sold that was before the final that was those were instructions as to what to do I assume I don't I mean I guess my mother got it I don't know she certainly signed
for it there's documentation of that and in those from the information that I got from Justin Phillips it gave information as to what to do hey your property is going to be sold and all of that kind of stuff but when the final sale happened of the property the that piece of mail was sent to the property address uh in crediting county and it was returned to the commissioner of state lands undelivered there were no instructions as to what
Speaker 134
42:41
to do to claim the overage delivered to anyone is
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
42:45
what i'm saying is that to the commission is that an accurate
statement or was there subsequent if you get the if you get it back undeliverable do you
Speaker 94
42:55
make other attempts and how do you document that any one of these notices that we would send out we would send out to every interested party address that we have on file I don't have that print out with me what she's saying about it being returned from the property address may very well be accurate however I do have another copy of one that was sent to the Texas address that we were successfully able to serve them on
others and in in this one which was sent right after the property sold it did tell them that there was a litigation period they can contest the sale and there was a uh you know at a certain point they could claim excess proceeds
Chair
Unverified
43:32
okay and this was sent on july 28th of 2009 following the sale representative warren
Representative Les Warren
Unverified
43:43
you recognize for a question thank you mr chairman i want to make sure i've got the the timeline right so this property sold in 2009 is that correct
all right so you had at least one grandparent still living at that time right yes sir okay at any point did someone come and say you had to move
Speaker 130
44:08
out they had to move no no they had moved to texas with uh my parents they had moved to texas so no no one uh told them that and can i make a statement as to that letter that you're holding um every letter that was sent has a green card
that is to be signed for and if i'm not mistaken there's no the the mail that was delivered on that date that you're speaking of um it says return to sender and there's no signed card in the package that i was given by justin phillips there's no there's no signature card i don't have it okay so i want to so at that point had your parents moved everything
Representative Les Warren
Unverified
44:55
out of the house yes to my knowledge it was an empty house
when your grandparents moved to Texas or wherever? Their stuff was gone, yes. Anything in the house?
Representative Ashley Hudson
Unverified
45:26
thank you. Any other questions? for for clarity you've heard that that the um the claim was dismissed for several reasons and
and y'all can correct me if i'm if i'm misstating any of these but i want to make sure you have an opportunity to respond one is that the statute of limitations had run is
there anything other than what you've already stated to us is there anything else that you would want us to consider with regard to the statute of
Speaker 162
46:03
limitations the issue concerning the statute of limitations yes as i have said
Speaker 130
46:08
that last letter there is with the packet that i have from justin phillips
there is no signed receipt letter notification that anyone was notified that there was an overage There is, with every other letter that was sent concerning this property, the sale, there is a signed green card. There is, the packet that I got from Mr. Phillips, there is
Speaker 134
46:34
no signed green card that that was received. Okay. Anything further
on the statute of limitations, though?
Representative Ashley Hudson
Unverified
46:43
I mean, there have been several statutes of limitations that were pointed to, and so I just want to make
Speaker 130
46:50
sure you have an opportunity to respond to that. Yes, sir. i wasn't notified until january of 2025 okay that my grandparents that there was a deed for this land and so that's when i started on the journey with my siblings to figure out what happened with with this with this property and then we found out that
Speaker 134
47:10
there was an overage so that was in 2025 all right
and then the second point for the dismissal was that there's a statute
stating the commissioner of state lands cannot be liable to for monetary damages which is this appears to be a
claim against the commissioner do you have anything to respond to with regard to that
Speaker 130
47:32
well i believe that the commissioner has a duty to notify and it wasn't fulfilled because this last letter that was sent out was never delivered the instructions as to what to do to claim the overage and so there's a duty to notify from the commissioner of state lands all right did i miss
any word i know that the merits of the case really were not taken up by the commission because of the statutory and the
Representative Ashley Hudson
Unverified
48:03
essentially a jurisdictional issue is there anything else miss irby that was a basis for this
Speaker 75
48:09
dismissal uh only that the commission also found that the claimants had not stated facts upon which relief could be granted. They didn't specify it was 12B-6, but it would be a dismissal under Rule 12B-6 of the Civil Procedure Rules, but nothing else.
Representative Ashley Hudson
Unverified
48:25
Okay. All right. Any other questions? Okay. Thank you. Thank you for your testimony. I know we've got a motion waiting. Anything else from the committee? Anyone else you want to hear from today? Anything from the commissioner in response to any of this that was raised? Okay, thank you. All right, Senator Hester, for what purpose? Okay, let's hear your motion.
Okay, we have a motion and a second to affirm the ruling of the Claims Commission. And I guess before we get into any potential discussion, if y'all will go have a
seat back in the audience. Is there any discussion on this?
Senator Jonathan Dismang
Unverified
49:18
All right. I mean, what this should lead to is a discussion. But, I mean, most everything that the commissioner of state lands is doing is directed by laws that we pass.
And so they did not do something they were supposed to do. There was green card signed. The process worked. There's excess proceeds. And I think where we're at right now is, I mean, after this motion is, are we handling excess proceeds appropriately? Is there enough time allowed for? Is the process what it should be? All those sorts of things, which is a legislative question that's going to take a substantive bill to correct, not something you can correct here. They follow the processes that we laid out for them to follow and promulgated rules based on that.
And that's where we are. But, again, I think it wouldn't hurt to have a conversation about what happens with excess proceeds. Are they even going to the right place? I mean, I would upset counties by saying it, but, I mean, if they were collected for public schools, but we're not sending them to public schools, why? Anyway, and is it the counties that deserve it? I mean, what are we doing? But other than that, I just want to state that I think everyone's followed the procedures that we set out for them. any other
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
50:34
Senator Bryant you're recognized thank you I would echo that I think testimony this morning we've had a good conversation with what our auditor is doing with this claimant why is the state not acting on its own behalf saying set these proceeds aside in a claims process at the auditor of the state let it sit there and this legislature should probably put a window of maybe 10 years on those monies and those proceeds to be held that way heirs can have the right to fundings that that may come to them so i think i learned a lot today and i think hopefully in 2027 we'll see some
some activity any other any other comments or discussion representative hudson you're recognized
Representative Ashley Hudson
Unverified
51:13
thank you i i just felt like the house needed to
chime in because the senate was doing all the talking um i i do agree with our colleagues in the senate um i do think though that we're discussing the wrong claim because this keeps talking the questions of law that we've been presented refer to contesting the sale of the tax delinquent property. I don't know that I heard anything from the claimant saying that they contested the
sale. I think that they were seeking the overage and trying to figure out what happened to that and so you know I think and maybe this is a product of what Senator Dismang mentioned about we need to go back and take a look at this process and clean it up but but I do agree that this is this is a procedure that we likely need to try to fix and I am sorry for y'all's trouble and thank y'all for being here today. Thank you
Representative Hudson and I would point out and Ms. Irby can correct me if I'm wrong
that the I believe in the claim that was filed the requested relief was not necessarily specified and so the claims commission in interpreting it was trying to do the best they could to clarify what the issues were but appreciate and understand the point that
Representative Ashley Hudson
Unverified
52:26
you were making as well any other discussion on this we do have a motion on the floor to affirm the ruling which was a dismissal by the claims commission all in favor say aye any opposed the motion passes
members i believe that this concludes our agenda if there's nothing further the committee will be adjourned You
Agenda
A. Call to Order
B. Litigation Settlements – Department of Corrections
C. Denied and Dismissed Claim – Appealed by Claimants – Referred from the Claims Review/Litigation Reports Oversight Subcommittee of the Arkansas Legislative Council
D. Adjournment
Documents
| Title | Type | Pages | Source |
|---|---|---|---|
| Agenda — JBC-CLAIMS (8AM-9AM), Apr 14, 2026 | Agenda | 1 | Official source ↗ |
| B.1 Arnett v. Norris | Exhibit | 8 | Official source ↗ |
| B.2 Ridgle v. ADC | Exhibit | 9 | Official source ↗ |
| C.1 Greer and Hays v. COSL | Exhibit | 35 | Official source ↗ |
Speakers
Speaker 2
Representative Matthew J. Shepherd Chair
Unverified
Speaker 19
Speaker 21
Representative Ashley Hudson
Unverified
Speaker 29
Speaker 27
Chair
Unverified
Representative Jim Wooten
Unverified
Senator Jonathan Dismang
Unverified
Speaker 46
Speaker 24
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
Speaker 54
Speaker 55
Speaker 58
Speaker 73
Speaker 75
Speaker 77
Speaker 82
Speaker 94
Speaker 104
Representative Andrew Collins
Unverified
Speaker 118
Speaker 128
Speaker 130
Speaker 133
Speaker 134
Speaker 69
Speaker 141
Speaker 117
Representative Les Warren
Unverified
Speaker 148
Speaker 162