House Aging Children and Youth Legislative & Military Affairs
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Chair
Unverified
0:00
Over here to my right, I guess we to your left. With that said, the next item on the committee's agenda is House Bill 1002. Representative
Edwards, you're recognized to present your bill. Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Vice Chairman, members of the committee. This bill, to me, is about doing something for victims and protecting the rights of a woman who's been raped.
The rule of law is important. We need rules in our society. We need rules in our lives to keep a civil society. And one of the rules, both moral and in statute, is that rape is always wrong. It just is.
And this past summer, I was having breakfast one morning with an attorney, and he said,
John, do you know about the story of Shawna Prewitt? And I said, no, I do not. And he said, well, you need to learn about this. This was a woman who was a college student in Missouri. and she was raped now when she was right she became pregnant she made the
decision to carry that child to term and during the trial of her rapist she was served with custody papers from the rapist father seeking custody rights to the child now she was totally stunned by this fortunately for her there was a good judge
that worked around that issue at
that time but it left a lasting impression upon her she went on to law school and in 2010 she wrote a law review note about what society
does and what protections were out there for women who are raped and decide to have the baby and I read
that law review article and it it was it was it was a
very compelling thing to me that that this is something that needed to be addressed and when I did my research I discovered that the state of Arkansas was one of those states that did not have a specific bright-line rule in place that would give the victim of rape some protection from custody or visitation issues
of a rapist's father. Now, and I'm paraphrasing from her law
review note, but when someone has been a victim of one of these attacks, why should we tether them to a lifetime of the possibility of visitation and custody issues with the rapist's father if they make the decision to keep that child?
So this is why this bill was drafted. I made some amendments after the
initial draft to address some concerns that I had, and Mr. Chairman, I think I've shared with you,
I told everyone from the beginning of this legislation that I was looking for input, I was seeking ideas to make it a better piece of legislation
because my ultimate and my only goal here is to give someone who's been a victim the right and opportunity
to keep from being a victim again now there are different states that have different ways that they have addressed this issue but here's what I've done for this bill to take effect number one there has to be
a conception and there has to be a rape conviction if there's not a rape conviction this law will not apply some states are looking at using a lower standard to deal with this issue but I felt
like starting off from a constitutional
basis, we would narrowly define it to those individuals that had actually been convicted, pled guilty to rape. Again, keeping this in mind to trying to do what we could give a woman in this situation the best information to make the decision that would be best for her, and if that was decision was to carry that child, let's help make that decision easier for her
should she go that way. Now, the Arkansas rape statute covers a lot of issues. And one of the things that can possibly come into play is, you know, this phrase, statutory rape. Now, I think the Arkansas issue regarding statutory rape, and one example where this could come up would be if you had an underage female and a male that was, one example would be more than four years, more than three years older than they were.
You know, there exists the possibility that, you know, a prosecutor could file charges under that example. I think the possibility of that is fairly remote, and again, that's in a consensual relationship. The issue that brings it up is the age differential, but it can, it could happen, it can happen. So this is why we put a provision in the bill you have before you that should the mother
decide that she felt like that a custody and visitation would be appropriate, then she would have that right to reinstate that, and that is a protection there that give, again, and put that option for that mother to make the best decision for themselves and that child. What I found, members, from my research, is that this is an issue that no one knows it's ever a problem for them until it's a problem.
Many of the cases that I've seen from around the country, it follows the same thing that happened in Missouri. A woman finds out later on that she's had this child, and then she's getting custody papers from the rapist's father. And I just think that this is something that we can do.
It's a start. And as some of the newer members of this assembly, I tell people all the time, you know, I always feel like that we all pass through here. We all need to constantly be seeking ideas to make things better. But this is my start to try to give some protections to some victims that I think that need them. And,
Mr. Chairman, I'm ready to take any questions from the committee.
Chair
Unverified
9:30
Thank you. I've got one question for you, and that is line 35 and 36. It says, deputated fodder to a child conceived as a daughter of a labor shop. Paid child support as provided under 9, 10, 10, 10, 9. If the mother was like, I don't want to have anything to do with the father, I don't care if he pays child support or not, or anything of that nature, can she, because I don't know that specific section, can she just say no child support whatsoever
because I don't want the father being involved
at all? I think that certainly, again, going back to the decision of the mother, most of the
times what you see in these circumstances, is if there's not a plaintiff that's pushing an issue in the court, most of those kind of issues are not going to be, you know, they're not going to be pushed. But we did want to have that provision in there.
So if that mother wanted to make those decisions, you know, We didn't want to end up inadvertently penalizing any child conceived from such a rape conviction. That was our intent there.
We're trying not to penalize the child. So, Mother, if she didn't want to
Chair
Unverified
10:52
pay child support, I mean, that exception's in there? I mean, Ms.
G may have a comment that she would want to, from the Attorney General's office, who's helped me with this bill,
she may have something she may want to add
Chair
Unverified
11:22
to this. Sure. If she wants to come
Speaker 26
11:27
forward. Please make sure you introduce yourself and your title for the record. Good morning. I'm Erica Gee, Assistant Attorney General, and we assisted Representative Edwards with that specific provision and his amendment to the bill. And I think I agree with what the representative has said.
If the mother does not initiate an action to seek child support and no one does it on her behalf, it's
Chair
Unverified
11:48
unlikely that that would come up. MR. Okay. Thank you. All right. We do have a couple of questions from other
members. Representative Dickinson, you're recognized. MS. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I certainly am not questioning your legislation, but I do have a question about, just for my information, if he obviously is admittedly the rapist, why is he not incarcerated?
And if he is, how does he have the right
to serve papers on someone? MR. That's a very good question, and this is why
so many people are surprised by when these things happen. It happens because it can. And in the state, the example I gave from Missouri, you know, there was no, at that
time there was, Missouri has since passed legislation that deals with this, but at that time there was no provision in the statute that would prevent that and so what this individual did was you know saw there was an opening there to file for custody and they did and you know I don't know of course they were on trial at the time in that particular case but let's just say that if you did have
someone who was convicted with you know without this statute yes they could be incarcerated and yes they could either represent themselves or get an attorney to represent them while they were incarcerated they could still try to you know do something like this so it you know it's it's it's kind of like one of those
the example I've given is on the morning of September 10th 2001 no one thought about,
no one really thought that much about the fact that you could carry box
cutters on major airlines. And then by the morning of September 11, 2001, Air One was wondering, why did we let
that happen? Why was that, you know, so it's one of those kind of things where we're trying to put something in place that will stop that. But that's, you know, it seems so obvious from that respect, but that's what,
I guess that's the best answer I can give. Thank you. Thank you.
Representative Gary Deffenbaugh
Unverified
14:31
Representative Duffinball, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Representative Edwards, I just had another question about the, I see the, you know, a possibility of inheritance. Does the victim have the same leeway to opt out of that also, like child support, more or
less? Is that right? Very good question, and I'll give a two-part answer to that.
First of all, under Arkansas law, any parent can, with a will, if you have a will, You can disinherit a child. You can't cut out a spouse successfully in a will. That's subject to challenge, but you can disinherit a child by mentioning them. If I ended up being a bad boy, my parents could put something,
I'd give John $5 and good luck, you know, and I would be disinherited. But if you die without a will, if you die, as we say, intestate, And, again, why do we want – if there was a circumstance where a child could possibly benefit, we would want that child to
be able to benefit because, you know, obviously the child is not the victim here. Thanks. Appreciate it.
Chair
Unverified
16:03
Okay. Representative Feit, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr.
Representative Charlene Fite
Unverified
16:08
Chair. Thank you, Mr. Edwards, for bringing this before us. My question is, we have had cases documented when a married couple has had a rape occur. They're still legally married, perhaps separated. What would happen in that instance when I would think that that father would have some legal rights to the
child? It is very, number one, you're right on point that it can happen.
It is very difficult to secure a rape conviction anywhere. I mean, number one, it's just the past three years in the state of Arkansas, and I may be slightly off these numbers, but I've examined the records with the administrative office of the courts. You're looking at a little over 400 rape charges filed a year, resulting in a little somewhere between 100, 125,
and that range of either guilty pleas or convictions based upon my information. But out of all those numbers, you're rarely going to see that circumstance. But when you do, you know, the evidence still has to be there. And the cases that I've reviewed on that kind of circumstance, there's typically a lot of physical violence.
There's a lot of evidence. There was one case that I reviewed just this morning on that point where there was a lot of compelling physical evidence that resulted in the conviction, which is another reason why I set the higher criminal standard. Some states want to use a civil standard which would make it easier for someone to lay that claim out, but it's very, very difficult to do that in the event that there was a pregnancy.
The other policy argument out there in the state that within a marriage, if there's a child, you want to have the typical circumstances. There's a presumption that the husband is the father of that child. And so that is an issue, which is another reason why we put that provision in there that the mother could have the decision, you know, to let that person have custody and visitation.
I mean, it's also trying to address that thing. But I think that the way our law is put in practice and the examples, and Ms. G may want to expound upon that, but that's how I've seen it
Speaker 26
19:20
play out. As Representative Edwards said, that exception to allow the biological mother to petition for the rights to be reinstated is intended to address situations such as the one that you've raised
or a statutory rape or, you know, there may be other circumstances where the mother feels it would be best for the child to have some kind of connection with the father despite the rape conviction. And so that exception is put in there to cover any kind
Chair
Unverified
19:52
of circumstances like that. Okay. Representative Alexander, you're recognized. Thank you,
Representative Randy Alexander
Unverified
20:00
Mr. Speaker. Representative Edwards, you mentioned and she just also mentioned the exception where
that rights could be granted. If a woman decides to grant rights because of statutory rights, whatever the cause, and then after some experience determines that was not a wise decision, does she still retain the right to revoke those rights? Well, I would imagine
that like in any – at that point, I would imagine it could be like any other
family relationship thing where the couples could go back and forth in the court.
But, you know, once you've got custody, you would have to litigate that. So I think that would be a fairly typical
Chair
Unverified
20:47
circumstance there. All right. Representative Ferguson,
Representative Deborah Ferguson
Unverified
20:50
you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just had a legal question just for information. Now, if a woman is raped and wants to give the child up for adoption, does the rapist have parental rights and control over that?
I would say under current law, that's a possibility, yes. I've not researched that expressly under current law and this could be one of those things that could be open for debate but one of the things that I do as I've worked on this piece of legislation
is making sure that we're trying to provide the necessary safeguards there without subjecting something to a lot of legal challenges. Do you have anything? I
Speaker 26
21:56
have not researched that position either about the rights of the rapist. I think that if the father was not the acknowledged father of the child, it would be a different situation than if he were.
You know, I think there could be
a question about that in a subsequent adoption proceeding, but again, I did not want to, I felt like taking it this way first, you know, because there again other states have looked at other ideas but
I'm trying to start off
being fairly narrowly drafted okay anybody
Chair
Unverified
22:47
else on the committee have a question all right seeing none
we don't have anybody that's signed up to speak for or against the bill representative I'm
Representative Randy Alexander
Unverified
23:08
sorry representative Alexander yes I'm just wondering
back to my question specifically in the event where they are
convicted of rape not statutory right if the what could there be some amendment or I don't know how to say it, but at the very least could there be included in the process formally a notification to the woman that if you choose to do this, it's irrevocable or in the case where it is convicted of rape, not statutory rape, could that right be given
to the woman? I think we would want to keep the intent of giving
the woman the control, you know, keeping that open initially. I think the way the bill is drafted right now, from what I
can tell, is the best way to go. So, but if the question is, you
know, if the woman does, she chooses to give custody and visitation,
she petitions the court to do that, and that is approved, that petition is approved. And then she determines, okay, like you said earlier, that was a bad mistake. I think the process that we have to give due process to both sides is probably the best way to
handle that, to keep everyone's rights intact.
So I would personally feel more comfortable leaving it that way, sir. Any
Chair
Unverified
25:11
other questions from the committee? Seeing none, Representative Dixonson, you recognize to make a motion. A motion do pass. Okay. Motion before the committee is do pass. All those in support of the motion indicate by saying aye. Aye. Those opposed? Congratulations, Representative Edward.
You have passed your bill. The next item on the committee's agenda is House Bill 1209, Representative Hutchinson.
We do have sessions starting at 10 a.m., so we will have to be done at least by 10 till to give members time.
Do you think that you're going to have enough time to present your
Speaker 69
26:10
bill? that time? Whatever you think, Mr. Chair. Whatever you think. We'll
Chair
Unverified
26:14
go ahead and run it if you
think we can do it in 20 minutes. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. All right. So, Representative Hutchinson, you're recognized to present your bill. Thank you,
Representative John K. Hutchison
Unverified
26:25
Mr. Chair, Mr. Vice Chair. First of all, I'd like to, yes, I am nervous here up here. It's my first time up here. But anyway, I would like y'all to consider amending and adopted this bill.
and then might be presenting it as as amended okay representative Harris you recognized
Chair
Unverified
26:52
okay and if motion has been made to adopt the amendment it is on your tablet so with that said any discussion on the amendment seeing none All those in favor of the amendment, say aye.
Aye. Any opposed? Okay. The amendment has been adopted. Representative Hutchinson, you recognize to continue presenting your
Representative John K. Hutchison
Unverified
27:23
bill. Okay. First of all, I'd like to maybe let you all understand why that I might be asked to present this bill. So I'm going to draw my picture to you. And, you know, when I ran for representative, it was the most difficult decision I ever made in my life.
And I was, on my campaign card, I was asked, said, you need to put on there the natural choice for the natural state. Okay. Well, my mom got me hooked on these life's instructional calendars. when I was in 10th grade, and I've kind of lived my life like that. So in 1994, about 18 years ago, when I built my farm shop,
that quote was on the back of my campaign cart, and it says, a politician runs for the next election, a statesman for the next generation. So, for 18 years, I'd catch myself sitting back in my chair, and I'd look up there at that, and I'd say, well, why did I put that up there? Well, it took me 18 years to realize that I might want to run for something like this, and I did, and here I am.
So when it comes to the bill I'm fixing to present, I know the importance of it, of such, because God gave us all talent, some kind of talent, and it's up to us to be able to find it and use it. And so when people talk to me or give me an idea or whatever, God gave me the gift to, like, see it in picture form, even motion picture.
That's the way. When y'all talk to me, that's the way I see it. And I thank God for that. So it's truly an honor to be able to present this bill I'm fixing to present. And with that being said, I'd like to read it to y'all. House Bill 1209, if this was enacted, it will allow the Governor to confer honorary title of Artist Laureate of the State of Arkansas
in recognition of outstanding efforts in art, who is a resident of Arkansas. The person designated as artist laureate shall be a person selected from a list of recommendations submitted to the governor by a committee consisting of head of fine arts departments from the state-supported universities and colleges. And what inspired me to understand this bill and its importance, I'd like to share with
you all a few points, and that is, art tells the story of all people and all cultures. In prehistoric times, drawings on rock walls recorded the existence of early humans. Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans informed our human heritage through their art. Artists inspired by biblical times recorded Christians' ideals. In Arkansas, we live in a state rich in natural beauty, and Arkansans are
surrounded by a variety of art, whether or not we know it. The honorary title of Artist Laureate of the State of Arkansas would recognize outstanding accomplishments and contribution in art by an Arkansan. An Artist Laureate of the State of Arkansas would help Arkansas recognize the importance of art as well as how it can enrich all of our lives. Approval of a bill toward an artist laureate of the state of Arkansas
would help underscore the importance of all art to all people, not just the elite. An artist laureate of the state of Arkansas can help demonstrate that art is a universal language reaching across borders and connecting the world. An artist laureate of the state of Arkansas can show how art in many forms stirs the imagination, enhancing creativity for the development of our state.
An artist laureate of the state of Arkansas can bring the informed appreciation of art to underserved populations, especially those who struggle to succeed in school. The presence of an artist laureate of state Arkansas can add economic development by showing prospective businesses seeking to relocate that our state values quality of life. An artist laureate of state Arkansas is an investment in our state
that will pay dividends for generations to come. Therefore, I ask you to please make this a due pass as amended,
and it's truly an honor for me to present this today. Thank you all. Thank
Chair
Unverified
33:03
you. All right, we will now go to questions. Representative Sabin, you're recognized for a
Representative Warwick Sabin
Unverified
33:10
question. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Representative Hutchison, thank you for bringing this legislation. I think it's a good idea, especially someone who makes his vocation in the arts.
I do have three very simple, straightforward questions for you, and they're meant really to clarify the intent for the record because, again, having worked in this field, I know that you're going to get some questions about these points I'm going to bring up, so I just want to make sure you can clarify those. But in line 27, you mentioned accomplishments and contributions in art, and art is obviously a pretty broad term, and I just wanted to know whether you envision this going to people who work in the visual arts, the performing arts, the literary arts,
Representative John K. Hutchison
Unverified
33:53
or sort of all of the above? I think all of the above. You know, if somebody can make somebody like me understand, you know, the importance of seeing the past and the future, I
Representative Warwick Sabin
Unverified
34:07
think they qualify. Terrific. Thank you very much. My other two questions concern line 32. This second question is pretty simple, but you mentioned fine arts departments, and I know that a lot of different colleges and universities house their arts in different departments and people who work in higher education as
Representative Alexander can attest to tend to be pretty picky about what they call themselves and where they go and so I'm just wondering if that's sort of a more of a general statement of you know fine arts departments rather than specifically requiring that those departments be called a fine arts department in order to have an artist qualify
Representative John K. Hutchison
Unverified
34:45
well sir if if it please y'all maybe I could get a little assistance on that maybe maybe I
Chair
Unverified
34:51
could ask mr. Evans or miss branch up here sure let me find if you would just state your name and
Robert Evans
Unverified
34:57
title for the record please thank you mr. chairman my name is Robert Evans I'm director of governmental relations for Arkansas State University system Representative Sabin, the legislation that's before you, House Bill 1209, is identical to the current law that established the poet laureate for the state of Arkansas, with the exception of the tweaking for the fine arts departments.
We would work with the Arkansas Department of Higher Education and ask Director Broadway to send out an email to the appropriate heads, deans of the various fine art colleges or departments for their input in this process. So each university or college may have a different title or name for it, but it would be for those that work within the fine art area. That's excellent. I appreciate the clarification,
Representative Warwick Sabin
Unverified
35:55
because like I said, I just know you, I guarantee you'd have those questions come.
Very quickly, my last question, same line, you mentioned state-supported universities and colleges. Even our private colleges in Arkansas, like Hendricks College and Washington Baptist University, receive some kind of state support. I'm pretty certain of that. So therefore, would those private colleges that receive some version of state support be allowed to nominate people, or is this really reserved for publicly funded, fully funded colleges and universities in Arkansas?
And with that, I'll definitely yield, Mr. Chair. Am I
Robert Evans
Unverified
36:37
recognized, Mr. Chair? Yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry. The legislation is specific for state-supported institutions, universities, and colleges, Representative Saban. Okay. I don't really need to follow up. I just, you know,
Representative Warwick Sabin
Unverified
36:55
I know that you'll probably have a lot of interest from some of the other colleges in the state in making these nominations, and I don't know. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know how state support is defined in statute, but, you know, again, I have to assume that probably some of our private colleges do receive some form of state support and probably would also want to nominate people for this, and therefore I would imagine that would become an issue, which is why
I just wanted to ask the question, but
Representative Justin T. Harris
Unverified
37:33
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Representative Harris, you're next. Recognized? Thank you, Mr. Chair. Is Representative Hutchison, is this going to, as far as, will the
Representative John K. Hutchison
Unverified
37:47
artist laureate be compensated? No, sir. Representative
Harris, strictly voluntary. Okay. It's not an honor to have it.
Representative Justin T. Harris
Unverified
37:55
It would just be an honor, strictly an honor. Okay. As far as there – so no reimbursement. Okay. And how about the committee that will choose
Representative John K. Hutchison
Unverified
38:06
the – Strictly for the honor of the recipient. Okay. And I, too,
Representative Justin T. Harris
Unverified
38:10
would like to voice my concern that private colleges such as around the state will not be included in this. So thank you. President Alexander, you recognized? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Representative Randy Alexander
Unverified
38:25
I first have a question for you. Is it appropriate for us to offer amendments
Chair
Unverified
38:50
in this? You specifically cannot make an amendment because there's not one drafted.
You can make the suggestion to the sponsor. I mean, there's
Representative Randy Alexander
Unverified
39:01
other motions that you can make to. Okay. I'd
like to make one of those other motions. If Representative Hutchinson is agreeable to this, I would suggest that we change line 32 strike the word state supported universities and college and insert the word of all insert all public and private universities and colleges I think that's
Representative John K. Hutchison
Unverified
39:29
a very good idea myself sir
Chair
Unverified
39:43
So, Representative Hutchinson, I guess at this point, you just want to hold off on this, make the
changes, and then come back before the committee?
Whatever's necessary, sir. Okay. Okay. At this point, then, since Representative Hutchinson has agreed to the friendly suggestion, we'll go ahead and allow him to do that.
We'll leave the bill as is, right where it is, allow him to make that amendment, and then come
Speaker 95
40:27
back before the committee. Representative Payton. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Representative Hutchinson, I want to get my question in because it may inspire more modification. I see that you're trying to confer an honor on somebody and it's not as honorable depending on how many people you confer it on and I see nothing in the bill that sets a time frame
or how often or how many people he's going to confer this honor on the time frame of how often the colleges will compile the list whether that would be annual or quarterly or how many people he can pick off the list so I was just curious if you had thought of that or if I'm missing
Representative John K. Hutchison
Unverified
41:12
something thank you Representative Payton, it's in the amendment have you read the amendment? no sir would y'all want me to read that or what?
okay, the amendment says yeah, go ahead Representative Hutchinson the amendment says that the artist laureate shall serve a term of 10 years or until a successor has been appointed for this honorary designation. Thank you very much. I'm sorry.
Chair
Unverified
41:47
Okay. Any other questions? Okay, seeing none, we'll go ahead and again leave the bill as
is, right where it is, allow you to make the proper amendment, and it will still be a Available on Wednesday or whenever you want to come back
Representative John K. Hutchison
Unverified
42:06
and run the bill Thank you very
Chair
Unverified
42:08
much sir and many members. Thank you with that said we have Completed all of the bills on our agenda
Chair
Unverified
42:20
because oh yeah, we're definitely not gonna have enough time to go over that and with that said the committee is adjourned
Agenda
HB1002
HB1209
Documents
No documents posted.
Speakers
Chair
Unverified
Representative John Charles Edwards Chair
Unverified
Speaker 26
Representative Jody Dickinson Chair
Unverified
Representative Gary Deffenbaugh
Unverified
Representative Charlene Fite
Unverified
Representative Randy Alexander
Unverified
Representative Deborah Ferguson
Unverified
Speaker 69
Representative John K. Hutchison
Unverified
Representative Warwick Sabin
Unverified
Robert Evans
Unverified
Representative Justin T. Harris
Unverified
Speaker 95
Speaker 99