City, County & Local Affairs Committee- House

We'll call this meeting of city county local in order. At this time uh. Of we may have a long meeting here I'm not sure but we're going to move along quickly as we can here to this afternoon. Of. Representative love do you have any comments you would like to make sense not at this time Mr chair just happy to be here thank you we welcome everyone in this here today. Of the item B. A is the trusted me Adam city is consideration of approval for June fifteenth two thousand twenty minutes motion a motion to have a second. All all in favor say aye on the opposed seeing none it passes. Okay would today we have to interim study proposals we have one that will be presenting today the first one will be Representative della Rosa who will be presenting The twenty nine choose me two thousand nineteen dash one thirty one. Of would you moved down to the table if you would please identify yourself and proceed soon as you get there. May proceed genital Rosa state registered ninety what this proposal with this ISP is about. Is a. Public notice and inconsistencies that we have a specially. I'm gonna narrow that down just to environmental related notices so I'm not talking ordinances or anything like that are you know individual legal notices or anything I'm just talking about of environmental permitting environmental actions and or what I discovered in my own district and what prompted this ways we had a quarry that was proposed to come in just to the east of my district and nobody in my district knew about it until the permit had already been issued and it was before the county Planning Commission. Which you're kind of too late by that point we also ready to an issue later in Bethel heights that's another place in my district and they had applied for a. I'm going to ruin the acronym for it but let's just say I'm a water permit I think it was storm water runoff. Where's Michael was it was a storm water that. Okay now. And even people that we're looking for it didn't see it so we have an issue and and and what I found because I wanted to run a bill to fix this in the last session and what I found was a lot of different agencies oversee these permits and they all have different rules and they all have different permit processes they all have different public notice processes nobody knows where to find anything it's all inconsistent so what I'm hoping to do eventually with this committee because it will it will be me eventually hopefully somebody on here gets really revved up about what I'm gonna talk to and really wants to carry this is I would like to make some consistency in how we issue public notice so that the people know where to find things like this and then also perhaps even change the method that we use because notices in newspapers. Is not working like I said even people that were looking for it and that were familiar with those types of permits can't can't find them so that's what the discussion is about today and I've asked all of the different groups that that we can identify within the state that issue public permits of of some environmental nature to come explain to us you know what it is they do so that everybody here is aware of it and maybe we can start talking about what should moved to who and and how we can start trying to a clean this up a bit and make it easier for the people within our state to know what's going on before it happens instead of after it happens so that's that's the purpose and Mr chair if you would allow I think it would probably be best to call AT queue up first because they've got they've got the most okay and I can do that Mr crap a would you please come. Please identify yourself for the record. Michael good pay department of environmental environment and see is department of energy environment now. if I may ask the chair of intelligence I represent today both of the oil and gas commission as well as the department vinyl all the. Hodges cover element one time okay that would be fine okay. So are by mail policies we issued a permit. Of. For storm water for my any for air quality issues etcetera. What is was solid waste. Sorry are probably my through. For by croak. I'm not gonna look for help many. It. L. blank so we issue the permits we have to follow the guidelines that were written over thirty years ago. And it makes it very thank you ma'am makes a very onerous for us. Try to put something in to follow the guidelines of the law current law and then get lots of complaints from citizens in its ongoing for us as well. So I am very honored to set the table day with Representative della Rosa to address this issue because it is a concern of ours as well as other agencies and how to reach out to the public and give them an efficient notice at the same time trying to reduce the cost of doing that it's for the state fell. We welcome the opportunity to look at other ways to efficiently carry on the state's business as well as not burden the industries that are asking for those permit. So. I'll be glad to take any questions at this point. Measure any questions. Seeing none will move we'll move forward to yes. I know this is gonna be really weird because it's my presentation but I also have questions so I'm I'm I'm I'm jumping back and forth in it from my from my seats here I don't know if you guys have had time to look through all of the information that was given I know we kind of got it sort of late so I don't know if you guys had a chance to look through nine one look through about thirty minutes ago myself. but at the the information by state came from you guys I think didn't it correct I was interested if you could share more about what Louisiana is doing. Because I noticed I think it was Louisiana from getting a state wrong here. one of them had like a website that was that someone the department of public participation or maybe it was maybe one Louisiana maybe I'm getting them mixed up with someone else you have there Cup on that have that a government website that all public notices go through eighteen publish our you can review those and look and see where your information. But how did they notify people that it's on the website I guess was the question I had about that particular method. Is probably the same it operate the same as the information verification looking at a you have to go look at it. One of the. And we're we're still bring county brainstorming here so if you had it in a. If the state purchased a four by four block for instance in the paper every day. And point them to the link. So that every day it would be in front of a thank you just cover the link and look and see what was public notice would be one idea but the problem is. Have many people. Get the electronic version of the democratic is that today and if they don't get that the opted out of that option and Democrat giving offered. Published in a local newspaper how do you get. The show publish that instead of doing the public notice maybe two or three an area that we. You could purchase the four by four in that newspaper and pointing to it but then. And they may be then. Senate to a how do you make them read it again. There's a water but you can't get the horseshoe come drink from the every time so. I think that's one of the study is so important for us to Address it and find some of the better solutions that are available to current social and other media platforms that we don't have we're not currently employed today. Because we're finding Lauderdale which requires us to do it a specific way. But I say that we planned on having a follow up meeting on this I think they're here to the person della Rosa trying to get ideas and and bringing different agencies to the table so this will not be the only meeting will have on this Representative Ladyman and you're recognized for a question. Thank you thank you Mr chairman I'm not part of the committee so appreciate you let me ask questions This is a very the. Important subject to me because I've been involved in some this and I guess my question is maybe for represent double set but are we talking local. permits here or we talk and state because. S. Mr pace said there's multiple laws involved and how this is done depending on what it is and if this is an issue for environmental of notifications it is an issue for all notifications and. And I'm just a a an instance of you know if if you Mister compare you can correct me if I'm wrong here but my understanding of the law is if you have a permits going to the local area you're required to publish that in the newspaper that is published in that local district with ruby city or county you're required to do that if that's if there's no newspaper there then you can put in the Arkansas Democrat you also required to put that in the library the local library if there's one so those two notifications are required by law it doesn't matter whether state or local. but the problem as you pointed out represent della Rosa is that people don't read those things there on the back page of the newspaper most people don't look there even if they're looking for they may not recognize it. So. When I was a mayor we had that issue and it's very expensive to do that too if you're putting that in newspaper local cities and in I thank counties chairman but not his hand on this but you're you're required to put ordinances in there and that's very expensive and people don't read it anyway so we were looking at how to solve that and what we we passed an ordinance in our city to post to these in four places around town that people were at the the most popular places in town and we actually got more feedback that way that may just be a suggestion I don't know but as you know news media newspapers people aren't reading those like they used to. and you can go and put it on a web page but again you've got no five people that's there as del represent other also said so I don't know the answer to this but Mr pay I mean how many laws would we be looking at here I'm is this a one law that we're looking at or they're multiple things that we're gonna it would have to look at. A good question I have been thinking about it. And I'm speaking strictly as a layman. So. Just my idea and am I speaking for any agency here it's just my idea is that I think it would be simplistic you just created A public notion of public notice bill. And then made all the agencies that were required to do public notice. React to that within their own rules and regulations. But it's just my thought is the simplest way to do that but the public notice the bill would cover all of the issues and a good example is up this week since the bill archer reached out to the different departments have heard from the farm bureau A. P. A. the public the papers of heard from State Farm. The Arkansas department of environmental fettered the Arkansas environmental federation AT half which is a private constituent private membership made up of our state industry they're very interested in it and they're all positive I haven't heard any negative issue on this are all positive about the change. But I I in I talk to them about some of the ways that we could do what your question just staff and they are inconsistent that if we had a. Public notice bill then all the agencies would just be required to. Adjust their rules to to meet that bill but the bill would be made up of a public private enterprise of input that would cover including the newspapers let them have a voice at the table as well and Create a new public notice a program that meet the needs of the people. To prevent issues that Representative della rose's constituents as well as conditions across state you wouldn't believe how many times we get phone call. We put the public notice in the county newspaper or the city newspaper and not the other. And they were upset with us because we can put it in both. And which increases the cost. And I know that these. I was always got to sling Currier when I was living and then. CM there's a hundred twenty two thousand people currently in the city of A in the same county instant concealing Currier. When I was there had around three thousand subscribers. And so I know we were reaching all the people we put our chef in the paper there for our public notices when I was a solid waste director. We need to change that we need to make it so that everybody has the same ability to see what's going on in their community without a great cost to them as well as with a great cost to the state or the industries are required to do that. Hopefully I for your question Sir thank you. representing brown you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair this may not be a question this may be just thinking out loud I had given all this some thought because I had been on the Pulaski County quorum court at one point and I knew how much we spent. Publicizing the agenda ordinance is of that we're gonna be discussed at the next meeting and A so we always put all this online and semasa while newspapers are all like that and then of the just thinking about efficiency throughout the state taking better advantage of electronic media. Well not everybody has broadband. And so one suggestion that somebody brought up that might it might sound kind of tedious or expensive to begin with that might not cost as much as some other options is to mail oppose card. To constituents and and inform them that this is where you can see public notices whether it's on the internet or at the local grocery store or the public library or the police station or where radius I think we need to get creative about this because my one of my biggest concerns with government is at our constituents are not engaged they're not engaged because with the kind of lost touch with states that the city the county in the state level because you know how many calls you get about stuff that doesn't relate to you with the state it might be a federal issue our city or county issue and I I really think that this is. This is just one aspect of something that's very important about getting our citizens engaged and thank you for doing this. Representative Hillman you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman of. The hold up just a minute carrier and. Jammers funded that for national election under the which in city municipality issues let it that work for the post card would be fairly straightforward at a cost but the problem of and I'll use her money example so she has a mining operation. And if the agency was required to send. A postcard then we're going to have to see expand the energy and costs. Okay I'm sorry. Yes ma'am I understand that. Okay what a. Okay all right. Thank you. But one to say let's turn the microphone on press the button please. Thank you Mr chair one issue in dealing with all this now is that you've got your city and county ordinances that say that the public notices must be published in the paper so we're gonna have to address all that cell thank you. Okay Representative Boyd you're recognized for a question thank you Mr chairman of I think this is a great idea and Sir in fact it's such a great idea that I actually worked on a bill on general notification during the last session. Out so that a one stop shop type thing with the demise the newspapers around the state. And I ran into a constitutional issue with it so you might do some research on that there there might be a way around it but when I got to that I just dropped. That's just some you might wanna look at thank you thank you representing rye you're recognized for a question yes Sir thank you Mr chair you know general I was just thinking about three or four spots that may be able to help you if it was a county you know act a covered the entire county you may want to look at a major paper with an accounting if it was a city maybe just that city paper and then the internet if possible would be a second round of and then for conspicuous spot in a city block Representative Lehman was speaking about and if it's in a county just make sure that you affected the whole county had one in in a conspicuous spot and every major town. One of the things that I noticed when I was going through a reading with the different states did Texas at least in in that in the notice that was was in this recap they just put a sign on the property had a requirement for how big it had to be which says go here what I'm thinking in my head know whether this is how it's going to turn out I don't know but what I'm thinking in my head is that we have all the departments come all the stakeholders as Mr pay was saying everybody put into this I love the idea of just an overarching bill yet this is what we the public notice but I think the key in all of this is also going to be that the state's going to have to spend money up front advertising to everybody this is how it's going to be going forward this is how we're going to do it because I guarantee you ninety percent of the people at least in my district have no idea have no idea how to get information on waste water permit sore and they don't think about it until after it's been issued or they now have a problem and they have no idea how to go get information and it puts people at at at the start disadvantage state there of the property is affected they don't know about it until it's too late so I think the state's going to have to be serious about this and I I would like the newspapers to be involved in this to I'd like to know what their proposal is because we have relied on them for so long for public notice and and it's not getting out there anymore it's not working so you know I would love to see them as a partner in this as well to make sure that it'll probably have multiple facets another idea would be to we forget their social media now not everything has to be paid for by the state to get information out places you can as represent a brown mention you could you can mail postcard to people just within a certain distance of whatever's going on I guarantee it's going to be on Facebook it's it's going to spread that way too so not everything has to be paid out of our pocket there some things that we can rely on people to spread as well but there there's a lot of ideas is just to. of balancing. The cost and efficiency I think just everybody right now I'm just looking for folks to agree we need to fix this it's not working right the way that it is in and we're just trying to look for ideas on how we pull something together to make it better. Thanks represent love you're recognized for a question thank you Mr chair Mister phase so I'm I'm really liking the idea of of kind of a a state website and actually any is not our official public notice website. In so my question to you are one of the questions I have is if we had a state website set up I but then again we had a state we have science and a. To advertise. Public notices what would be them you know what what are some of the and hurdles that you think your state agency would have in doing that. Representative love I I don't think the you should rely on. A state agencies perfect like eighty Q. for actions because then you have the department of health no no no no no no one home I said no if we had a I over arching lie would be if we had Check in information technology set up a of arching state Arkansas state public notice website. In so I'm asking what would be the hurdles that your agency would have in advertising on that website I don't FOR she any hurdles it just be a matter fourteen the information to them like we would a newspaper okay because here's here's what I'm seeing you all number one that if you have a if you have a a project that is going on then it's really is supposed to have some sort of impact there is already so as to be a notice that goes out to that area anyway so if that's not happening then then that's an issue because I will. All projects that have some sort of environmental impact should it should be given notice this tune the residents around that area so. If that's not happening then we have an issue. In the mail notice this is the type of permit and what the requirements are in the law for it I mean if you if you go through this information it it varies widely some require mail to be sent sometimes it's only two people that have issue to comments about something in the past if it's a notice of hearing that's my point is it it varies widely okay. So the so then I guess that's what we need to fix the. Back to the advertising his I think if you put it if you put it on a website then for the information about the project can be place because what happens is is that when you advertise in the in the I don't think there's any any argument anymore about newspaper print media because the Arkansas Democrat Gazette is is not the only statewide circulation now it's only Sunday in print media so. They're going digital so I'm not sure where the newspaper why have a valid argument on and on having something to put their but if we had a state wide website to we are. question it is going to have to be advertising to say Hey draw people's attention to that you can put more information about a project on the website now. Mind you we're going to have to put some resources into the issue all because if you have how many state agencies do we have how many public notice is do we have I mean that's and that's gonna be a big operation so I think we we have to give some some kind of some thought to that but I think that she would have more information being able to be put on a website to where you can look at a project more in depth and see the impact of it the any when you run it into the newspaper because the and even when you run it in a newspaper and then that person still has to go and search about were the me get all this information to begin on this information and they have to contact the agency this deal another step so I do like the idea of having a kind of a state wide. I'm yes I don't wanna and start creating an apartment for but a statewide apparatus to where all state agencies can begin to put public notices on it because the you can put more information about the project in is in it that would be relatively cheap. You know ten advertisement that I agree my only issue with that would be how to people no then take a look at that website later so if we were to advertise like you're saying now and I agree Hey we're creating this website it's it's the state bulletin board now for public notice were you to be pending things up all the time but still if they're gonna do something to the stream behind my house I'm not gonna think to go look there every day I'm not gonna know about it until they change something behind my house and then I'm too late I'm already passed the public hearing notice permits been issued for whatever it is they're doing or maybe its upstream for me and I have no idea that something that that's an issue that we have with these as well as because some of these things have finite areas that they impact like a quarry you could just mail something everybody within a two mile radius of that not guarantee you that's going to hit the bulk of the people that are going to care but when you're talking about water permits. You know you could be putting something into a stream way way upstream for me that might affect me and I'm I need to know about but I might not be necessarily within two miles so we're talking about air permits water permit session all all kinds of things in as an over later this they're all in different departments as well and that something else I want to address with this is is why we have certain things going through eighty Q. some go through the department of labor some go to the department of health some guy from the department of ag it to me there to me they all say environmental but they're not all in one place so that's an issue. Along with this so I'm just making it more complicated. If I may. Representative della roses a primary issue that sparked the F. of so she came to woo when she I saw the bill back in nineteen I came to our national. Let's talk about it and so she explained over concerns in she said well there's a blasting and my people are upset about the blasting and I said let's not US department of labor. If you and then all the air that dusty create when they blasted Meg Diegans eight traveling to the homes I feel that's not us that would be the department of human health. Cecil was this is much bigger than I realized and so that she pulled a bill to her credit and she went the I. S. P. route to get a study and and brought a put because it is. He touches so many different things in even with our agency we we approve the mining. Then somebody else approved blasting in the somebody else is responsible for the dusty create is a health hazard so. I say we just all need to come together and have a conversation about what's the best thing to do and how to best get the word out so that's that's what we're here. Okay thank you I tell you what we have two more that are lined up and we we have three other agencies we need to get up here and get their input so after these two right here will get Mr Gruppe back up here in the bay but at this point but would you remain until represented hawks and after that represented Ladyman represented halt you're recognized. Good Richey helping. the. Right. Is anybody looked at and I I don't know the science or technology behind this but text messaging I know that sometimes I can be driving through an area that I don't even live in in geographically it will pinpoint me give me a more in NYC alert or will give me a tornado alert and you know I think that the problem like you said Representative L. rose is not that we're not publishing this information we're publishing the information to the detriment of our counties budgets. And we're just hitting the wrong people. But if we could you graphically pinpoint the area sensitive to the mining. And just say this is about to go on in your area it's in that text message and if they don't want to hear it they can opt out so I don't want to hear anything else about that but they've been duly notified and then I know to Being a real estate broker there are certain agencies it I'm more apt to. Want to get information from. Instead of those agencies had opt in why don't you receive emails from us and if we have updates to policies and procedures and guidelines. This is how we're going to notify you. And that would be extremely inexpensive I get a postcard from a wreck every year times to for my wife and I and times to be ten by the end of this year for all of my agents and I mean that's fairly expensive for the state but if they could just send us an email that said it's time to pay your dues again you know that that would be a lot cheaper but I think that you know we're putting it out there like your sandwiches hit the wrong people the technology is there I think we should look into text messaging. And possibly email for our agencies and people who were stakeholders and and those parts so sorry I know that was not a question. Thank you Mr chair up SO now what ARE agency is done for the last years we've been sending notices to all of our representatives and senators. All permit issued a public notice issue so if you're a legislator used at some point you will your and the last year you receive an email from us I know that represent Ladyman that Hey in your area there's a public notice for thirty days for ABC industry. and we just make a Representative aware that our legislators aware that there are issues having an area which helps a lot because. it's a question for the constituents or if they need they feel like if an important thing then they get that part out Phil. On. We found that very helpful as well so we've been doing that proactively for the last year thanks to Representative della rose's efforts. But we're we're getting ready to the string my dad as well every month the PC E. commission gets all of public notices in permit there actually posted on their website no one ever looks at him from. We're trying to take that and we're going to start trying to push that out to the legislators. overall we mention a specific so if something happened your district I have a person it come through all the permission identifies that these address you and we've Pacific creation of two year. yes that may intensive manpower issue for that person so we're trying to streamline that is will come up with better ways to use existing data to get to a and then you'll be aware of those issues in your community. Della Rosa you as a second it to go off what what you were saying that's another potential idea is is to ask people to subscribe either by email or text or whatever method but like you're saying that you're right the technology and the way the people get information today is not anything like what it used to be and you're right we are putting information out there and I would argue we're not gonna so hitting the wrong people we're not having any people anymore nobody looks at the section of the paper where the staff falls anymore I mean when was the last time anybody even in here look at the legal section of the physical newspaper. One person to out of out of every but that's my point I mean if something was going on in your backyard right now even you wouldn't know about it today and so that's what we're trying to that's what we're trying to come that is for but I like I like the idea of text messages and you're right that's a good idea. All right Representative Ladyman you're recognized. Thank you Mr up yeah I like the idea of text in the social media I think that's the way things are going but Mr pay and I think this is a question for you. I think we have to be careful if we're talking about setting up a web page a new web page for notification because really that's already out there. Eighty Q. in their web page has any permit and we're that permittee is in the process and you know all the information is is already there and you can go to their web page you can look under this is segregated by air water waste solid waste so if you know what department so if you're if you know about that and you're saying you're involved in that that's already out there but most people aren't and when they go to that webpage they get lost in you know all the tabs A so we could make it better by cleaning up a web page but again web pages are looked at as much as social media is these days but Mr pay my question is those permits are still out there they are by department and they are by process is that correct that's there today. That is the eight you are correct it's all public information and follow available from the moment. We start the permit process. Which is the public notice that the industry or the city applies in then we start the public notice process for the and it's all available online. We issue thousands of permits every year and we issue thousands of public notices every year. The issue is not a small number we spent a great deal of money just on the public notice part along. Then if we have any responses we have to respond individually to each one of those responses on any public notice that we do so we spent a lot of time. Of responding to the public nurse issues but all of our information is public in a lot of times I'll get phone calls from constituents your constituents who fail I'm not happy about this writing about that and we direct them to the public pages in fact of our and our I did know that area this was wrong once we start educating on confessional we're actually doing is educating them. They they realized that they don't have a leg to stand on and FOR of arguing but now that they're educated pair prepared and get to get better and Paul which they do it from that point forward a lot and join our mailing list for the issues that concern them all. It's there yes Sir repair lady it's all there. Represent Cavenaugh do you have a question of Mister Gruppe or just have a comment. Okay if you if you would the Mr but she's yourself I will probably have you back up attest the health department to come up at this time. While they're making their way up representing Cavenaugh you're recognized. Thank you thank you Mr chair my suggestion would be one other thing to look at is when we're going through this process and We were just hit upon it that they have to respond to all the people that make public comments. I'm looked at public comments a lot of them aren't even from Arkansas they're from outside the state so I would like for us to be able to look at the ones that they have to respond to and worry about are actually citizens of the state of Arkansas. Are you are you through okay thank you of please identify yourself for the record if you would please in. Thank you Mr chair Marcie on general counsel with the department of health and I have with me Terry Paul. Yes Sir I'm Terry Paul the environmental branch chief for the health department. We would would you like to make an opening statement in. Certainly thank you at Mr chair members of the committee we submitted our report to give you a general overview about what all we oversee with regards to environmental health we do focus on certain areas including on onsite waste water programs a swimming pool and swim beach safety programs marine sanitation our engineering programs help provide safe drinking water our plumbing programs training license plumbing professionals we also oversee the clean indoor air act protections that were enacted in two thousand six and we also oversee retail food establishments in our environmental health section that that Mr Paul overseas we are promulgate rules pursuant to the administrative procedure ACT and also under ten three three oh nine we have a public notice when we file our rules with the bureau and the secretary of state we also have a public comment period that lasts for thirty days and we post our our rules and anything I have that would affect the public on our website on the eighty H. website there is an Arkansas dot gov state agency website that state agencies will post a public notices of public hearings that is currently in use its Arkansas dot gov and that is a helpful website that a lot of agencies use to help promote information for the public currently right now we do have some rules that are pending before public health committee all of our rules have to go before the public health committee prior to going to jail C. rules of the public does have an opportunity to comment on our rules at public health and also at the A. L. C. rules subcommittee so that is the extent of our public comment that we have with our areas that touch on environmental issues. Are there any questions. Representative della Rosa you're recognized sentiment to respond to ask questions so when this is this is gonna be question for I think pretty much every agency that comes up here after department of environmental quality and my biggest question is why did these items fall under your department and not department of environmental quality because especially dealing with water with your department because that was a major confusion that we had when we had the issue with Bethel heights waste water was did a follow under eighty Q. did it fall under apartment of health water quality verses the run off and it in a mass amount of confusion as even who the oversight is for that particular issue so I think there's a lot of confusion when it goes so my question is why why do these things the items that are environmental based why they fall under under your agency instead FTQ. Yes. I can tell you from a historical perspective that the fight wastewater program is generally different and and and and are permitting processes generally different from AT Q. in that we're dealing with a generally individual homeowners not businesses or entities large entities the the deal with Bethel heights is sort of interesting but it did it did actually require both agencies input over the years and I go back with that some degree about two thousand and three I believe Bethel heights but all that said FOR made individual perspective are permits are generally in it I I individuals and eighty cues are based on the output from a treatment plant or a some kind industrial process that they permit that goes out to public hearing as issue said the the vast majority of what we put out for public comment is our rule changes which applies to everyone of those permits that we issue and of course a lot of these permits again FOR individuals are somebody want to build a house or move of mobile home manner or whatever in those are all over the state about five or six thousand a year right now and so they're a little different but I guess the best way to answer your question is that we approve a lot of the the science behind the different systems but each one of those systems has to have a water permit our air permit or something A depending on what the the class is through eighty Q. to permit their discharge or our words going that kind of thing our division of engineering focuses on making comments that relate to the public and the public protection of the water streams the source waters of what could happen downstream from that measure said these things are local but some of these local things can cover a whole watershed not just maybe a city county area so it gets really complicated I do know that much. Any other questions. Any other comments Mister Mister. All right we appreciate you being here today. at this time will call up the the division of labor. miss Oxley please come. Please state your name for the record please. Thank you Mr chairman members of the committee I'm Denise ought CM general counsel for the department of labor in licensing of and I'm here today I understand with respect to our blasting program and I thought I would give you a little background information if I could at first if that would be helpful the department of labor licensing is not an environmental permitting agency. We do not issue permits. With respect to blasting we do have two components to the blasting program and I would like to do a deal with each one of those separately first is a certification program FOR blasters FOR individuals performing blasting it doesn't matter where they are. in basically it's sort of an occupational licensing process although it's a very narrow one it deals with certification of blasting and it only the principle is to ensure that those folks that are doing blasting have had adequate training and that's all we do is look at the training component other components are very narrow there's no testing you don't have to be twenty one years well aging and have a high school education so it's a very very narrow legislative mandate to to do the training. so we do insure that they are doing DO trying. Folks regulated by the department of environmental quality that conducts surface coal mining blasting as well as those that do pricing for the oil and gas commission license by them are exempt from the house so. The other component of that law was actually passed much later is separate and that's the Arkansas quarry an open pit mine blasting control act which I know is a mouthful again that is not a permitting law. We don't pre approved quarries we don't issue permits for quarries it is a law that establishes standards for the blasting conducted a quarries and that's what we monitor that's what we enforce the law itself establishes the statute itself establishes what those standards are at in their based on federal standards there's insurance requirements there's recordkeeping requirements and we handle complaints now there's two aspects of that law that do have some type of public notice requirement. Because if there is someone or some type of public participation involved. With the director of the division of labor is authorized to require mine owner to do a pre blast survey when they notify us that they're beginning blasting operations at a new site they can require pre by survey of homes that are within a half mile radius of the blast site. A and second. If in fact we determined that there is a up blasting contractor or Corey owner who is in violation of the law and this minimum standards established for that blasting if we determine there in violation and we're having a public hearing with respect to disciplinary action in terms of imposition of a fine or something like that we required to give actual notice to any complain it for the past three years. So that they can participate in that hearing process. But I'll be happy to answer any questions I can. Yes the represent dollar Rosa you're recognized. And thank you Mr chair I have two two questions one is the same question I asked the department of health and I think it's even. More unusual for your particular department this is quarries or or mining is the only thing the only environmental thing that falls under the department of labor so why of all these operations that are out there that have an impact on the environment why is this one segmented off and it's under the department of labor and you guys are stuck with it. Was everything else fund falls under the department of our middle quality makes no sense to me quite one would be I understand that completely and I I perhaps I can answer that question I don't know if it's a good answer or if it's the right answer for it's what you need but I can't talk to you historically about why that is because it's not the fact that it's considered an environmental regulation it's a dealing with explosives and when the act was passed there were two agencies that were looked at and one was the state fire marshal who deals with explosives and the department of labor which also dealt with explosives. So it wasn't it is. And it doesn't just deal with public safety as it that's a major component of it but it is also worker protection standards and historically the very standards that we use to determine whether that blasting is. Within limits are federal blasting limits established by the office of surface mining not the EPA. As well as the mine safety and health administration which is part of the US department of labor. Okay. I I can't tell you that the department of labor is the best place for it but I can tell you historically those were some of the things that were considered when it was established so if I understand that correctly and if I understand your report correctly. There really isn't environmental permitting FOR quarries and mines going on right now all you're doing is licensing the people that do the blasting to say yep you're qualified to operate this and then saying. Yep you got a black you're gonna blasting device I don't know what you blast with that you have one of those and and we're good to go you know well known and we do take complaints we do make sure that the blast occurs below the the the standards established so that there is no damage conducted and we do monitor that will often require them to set up a seismic graphic monitoring at the. Perimeter of the mind which is closest to the nearest structure so we're looking at ground vibrations and air blast to determine that those are within state standard yes but but but we do not permit you're absolutely correct we're not permitting that in that there's no pre approval process that would allow us to permit those they just give us notice we don't if we don't we don't permitted me even after the fact we're just monitoring anyone that's doing it that way we we found that out with the Cory and there is I and I'm not saying it's not just quarries that that get the certification for blasting it'd be applies to any blaster in the state of Arkansas it at construct those that are doing construction construction does a lot of blasting in the state of Arkansas so that's not an environmental function of that explosive use we're we do that also so. Thank you Mr a is there any other questions. If not we appreciate you coming today thank you very much my skis and at this time uh Alaska in our CS the please come forward just been feel if you would please identify yourself in your guest. Thank you Mr chairman members of the committee on weight hajj chief counsel for the department of agriculture have Ryan been filled his deputy director of our natural resources division. And as you can see from the report that we submitted we have. A separate different types of permits that would fall within the premise of the I SP that we're discussing today a couple dealing with surface water some dealing with groundwater are. Permits FOR dams and then for poultry feeding operations and nutrient management and nutrient application and as you can see from the information that we provided they all have different types of notice provisions and different types of public participation provisions and and if I may anticipate Representative della roses. Questions why are these programs within the natural resources commission or the department of agriculture just a little bit of history some of you are probably aware that the natural resources commission used to be called the salt water conservation commission so this was a commission that was established to deal directly with soil and water issues the the name change to the natural resources commission It is I deal with other issues other than just a solemn water as you can see from the specific agricultural permits like the poultry feeding operations. And the nutrient management programs as well so so that's why these programs are under the natural resources commission in one natural resources commission is under the department of agriculture is because specifically so much of the groundwater and surface water usage in this state is for agricultural issues and then also you do have the poultry fading operations and other agricultural permits at the issue be happy taking questions. Representative rose you're recognized for a question I have a stupid question what is a non repair in I saw this earlier when I I'm not even sure I'm pronouncing that right but it's throughout hero I don't what that is sorry so you're correct so if you live adjacent to a stream you have a right to take water out you don't have to have a permit but if you don't live adjacent to it and you want to take water out of a stream you then have to be permitted so a right parian rights means you're you own the stream banks so you have a right to the water. Okay thank you that's that's actually all I needed. Okay do we have any other questions. Evidently did a great job there. Wait anticipated cuesol just second represent love as a question we thought we were going to get away now in this is a simple question because in miss she riding I ask you all but I'm assuming that you do it because you brought it up but do you all of place your notices on Arkansans dot gov yes and thank you for bringing that up I was was going to talk about that and neglected to do so as as may issue indicated we place notice of meetings there and then we also Posted any rules that were promulgating there as well and course secretary of state. I thank maintains the website and that's because those rules would have to be filed with the secretary of state to become effective that would not cause us any issues at all if there was a central location that we have to place our notices because we already do that when we're promulgating rules so let's process that we're very familiar with the issues that I might see might actually be from the public's perspective if you have a website where all notices are posted I would hate to be the one administering that website because I can see it being. Cumbersome and and the public might actually get lost in looking what they're in looking for what they were trying to find but somebody with more. Technological background than I do could probably figure that out. Thank you our. Are there any other questions members. Seeing none thank you all. Call. Michael. Okay I think we have the Arkansas Ole and gas commission. Department. Michael good pay department of energy environment. everything I've said before is a would just apply to the oil and gas as well and car firm in terms of our concerns initiate. The leading from question. I just tend to go back since now your someone else So the oil. My my my overarching issue with all of this is. All of these different things all fall through these different departments and I'm having trouble just keeping up special Mr talking water water gets hit by a lot of different divisions I'm having trouble just keeping up with. Everything and that's one is laid out in front of me how was the public supposed to have any chance of sorting through who it is they're supposed to contact if you know you have an issue with. Some water run off from yeah like for example the Electric Company was behind house the other day and I have no idea what it is they used to drill with but it's it looks like brown Crisco is essentially what it is and it's all through my yard now so with when you have things like that you don't know who to contact with it maybe the person doing the drilling maybe it's an oversight commission we have no idea and that that's my biggest issue with all of this is not only. The cost effectiveness and and inefficiency of the public notice process we have now but also just keeping straight who who does what so with the oil and gas commission wire the things under that instead of environmental quality because to me this all seems like environmental quality. issues. Part of the reason his expertise. Hauling **** have the like for instant drawing what a well and there's residual water issues etcetera store they store water for some the drawing applications. And that is their specific area of expertise where the department of environment qualities expertise is in what happens if that water gets out of the tank. Thank you or it gets into that you start flowing onto the ground and and corner stream as where we get involved. We work very closely with the oil and gas phone water issues environmental issues. to make sure the and what we work very well together we also worked very well with the department of health could we get a lot of phone calls about a septic tank issue there's a septic tank this overflowed and neighbor and just gone into the stream. R. A. D. H. and we'll get a phone call and we'll we'll send an inspector out and look at it will determines the department of health will contact the department of health and we'll have a conversation with them. Typically and deprive health can correct me if I'm wrong here but typically because the homeowner hasn't cleaned out their septic tank and forever or they've let it lapse into a disrepair. And so we work with them the department of health to get that rectified either they take the leader we do depending on how we think it'll it'll bash to serve getting that problem resolved with the Other with any agency who typically what happens it if you have a problem typically we get the call. And then we try to get you to the right person to address it. again give you a good example a couple last month I had a Bethel Bella Vista person call me. Complaining that the recycling guy didn't wear a mask when he came to talk to him was really agree to. For the call us we have no jurisdiction of recycling operations but he contact the governor's office the governor's office to call us they call it ended up on my desk. And I said well that are response was is the department of health issue. I said but you know if he went from him to the governor's office and he told us to call us if we time to call the department of health and the like which is pushing it but down the road right. So I called the guy personally and I said listen I from fire that the guy listed route to you we have no authority for it. And see what you could call the department of health but that's probably going to be a little difficult for them so I called the AG's office and I'm waiting for them to respond to only take a asked I will give you the name and the number of the CEO of Bella Vista you call him our inability to ask you call him ten eleven please Richey. He was happier than a clam and I never I haven't heard back from so assuming they get some satisfaction from grieving if there. This state agencies in this state and have been quite a few work really well together we communicate strongly there are a lot of people and from the ground up they have built strong relationships center agency and we try very hard. Estate agencies for dressy issues a concern for the people most of those you'll never hear about because we're doing such a good job that and once we don't we try to do a good job that you hear about we should try to fix it well. Okay represent Ladyman you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair Mister thank you answered my question but I still want to kind of make the statement make sure Clerk try to clarify it's my understanding that the permitting is set up in different departments because of the expertise in those departments and what what's hard to understand here is when you say water and by thanks waters water well water is not always water there's drinking water there's waste water there's Lowery water and minds of brown water there storm water and and all of these different. aspects of water take different technologies are different expertise and so that's why you have to put it in different departments I think the clearest example of that is drinking water and wastewater so if you're doing waste water that's AT Q. and if I'm the one doing that I have to have a permit I have to have a certificate to the wastewater operator but if I'm doing drinking water that goes the department help I have to have another certificate from department health for drinking water because it's two different sciences eighty Q. is worried about the environment and what is what is emitted to the environment where that hurts animal environment persons whatever department of health is is interested in what we can soon as as people so what's in it total opposite or different expertise so it is that correct is basically depends on the expertise that is needed and that's where that permitting process is is put into. I would be correct. A good example would be Misaki is explanation of the blasting the execution of blasting. We have the liquid petroleum gas board is part of the department of energy and environment. there'll heavily regulated by the I think the labor group an OSHA that's how they so. And I think that's where it belongs honestly. Because we don't have the expertise for blasting and and they do so yeah I think you're on the correct path they're gonna one quick follow up yes so in your opinion if all of these were in one department is that possible. Could that be actually handle if it will. All of these permits were put into one department. No Sir. How would you try to start then. I think this stated in a pretty good job of defining where everything belongs in any special with the transformation active taking place in the last year I think that's really. streamlined a lot of the the. Point of contact if you will so I think the governor general a good job with the student this state agencies in and trying to make things better. For ever how to get in touch with people I mean I'll give you a good example. I was asked by a bill are about who to contact if last week in the department of health. Over this issue eight he was to me was really easy I call us to give magie online page two guys in because he's got such a. DO transformation he's got such a broad reach now. I think we're doing a really good job on it what we need to improve upon is what della Russia is not represented della rushes said which is getting the information to the right people and I think we just on the very start at this road in and trying to figure out what they really is and how to do it. The represented brown you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair Having created of a website. Links out to various different categories and things In the past. I'm thinking is there. Some way or conceptually that at Arkansas dot gov. We could create just up something to help citizens figure out where to go to figure out which department's going to handle the the type of permit that they're concerned about and just sort of like a little. Graphical thing a or a question and the answer is just about drinking water is just about water in the stream you know just if I'm just suggesting that that might be something to think about some way to help people navigate which department to go to and then if they click on a particular link that it might take him to that department just a thought. I think that most people's the fault is is generally department of environmental quality or what is what is your name again now department of energy and environment everybody's changing their names that I can't I I just learned all the acronyms and now I'm gonna learn new. it is still there okay I thought it got renamed I think that's where most people go to but the confusion comes going back to represent Ladyman was saying. Yes there are different types of water but you you end up with two different entities that oversee the exact same thing depending on the aspect of that particular type of water for example Bethel heights had waste water overflowing into other property well department of environmental quality care about the fact that it was escaping from where it was supposed to be and heading someplace else department of health care that the E. coli level was through the roof so you have to entities is interested in in in two different ways you're violating to different things and then that's you know where a lot of confusion comes in is is well it who has precedence here is that the fact that the water is you know dangerous or is it the fact that it's escaped you know which which one and and I you are rate into three just seems like everything I run into there's more than one entity that's involved in it because of the multiple aspects of it and I just think from my perspective if that's confusing for me that's bound to be even more confusing for people who don't even know what the different department names are who who might be dealing with it so that that was my point with them correct and I agree and it might it might be that we can't make it extremely simple but it might be that we can help them navigate that easier I agree. Okay. I'm not seeing any more questions here. Of representar rose would you like to close in and at that point make a motion for the study interim study on this I would I appreciate everybody's interest in this and and all the questions and suggestions and I certainly welcome. Even more I think it's an extremely important topic that will help everybody I mean that this is what we do we're supposed to help you know our constituents and public notice is one of the best ways to do that so that they know what's going on in right now. it's ineffective and it's an efficient what we're doing so we need to find a better method we need to find a more cost efficient method and I would like to make a motion that we enter this and to study if that's the proper word doctor that adopted okay or we have a motion and a second to adopt interim study own Get this right the. Okay. two nineteen dash one thirty three all in favor say aye. Those opposed say no. All right next up an item to is Representative Fredrick love is two thousand nineteen dash one forty eight. Thank you Mr chair. Not going to have a look a lot of discussion that this is this ideal was brought to me by a constituent. And as you know in light of what is happening with George Floyd in and the subsequent Things that have happened in regards to in the community looking in policing looking and a lot of different aspects of policing someone talk to me about the idea of immunity and how you know policemen they have the munity and so what I want to do with this study is I want to go ahead and I want to look at that aspect went on officer of many at out sign outside the lands of his duty. Then what happens in house committee is impacted I was fortunate enough to actually meeting with the Arkansas association of chiefs this this afternoon right before the meeting and definitely it was a good meeting and they will be who on the working with along with other law enforcement persons in law enforcement to actually crafters in I'm study proposal as you can see it's kind of its role right now but what we're hoping to do is we're hoping to flesh out some ideas and then bring back to the ninety third General Assembly something in regards to addressing the issues one officers may act outside the line of duty when they are are in enforcement and so with that I will take any questions Mr chair I turn it back over to you okay represent Dalby you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair of Representative love I'm I'm interested in on the very first page section two. A one it appears that you're also looking to do away with any community to nonprofit corporations boards commissions agencies authorities of any non profit is that you're also looking at that which should be outside of any governmental entities am I correct my reading that correct. Let's see click on the very first say July thirty one is in you said now I'm looking to do one with immunity for who. It says this is already in law all right here and right now it's if it's striking the immunity provided by this subchapter shell in it goes on so I mean are you looking at changing that that's what I couldn't tell by what you're doing. Well I wasn't looking in changing changing that but this is what I'll do is I'll go back to Brandon get into a better understanding because I wasn't looking in doing that. So and then also looking at the the application of of of that as well so living let me talk with brand but I just couldn't what is not now as you know what is not on the line what is already here is yes RT in the law I understand. Okay Representative Richmond you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair. Why do you feel that this is necessary I mean I understand what happened to the gentleman the tragedy that happened up there. But the people that were responsible specifically the police offer chevron or shall within or something like that that actually kneeled on him. He is he is under your been brought up on murder charges as well as manslaughter charges. That. The issue I have with this. Not have you ever been in law enforcement Representative love I have not have you ever certain military I have not so generally speaking like most of us that the biggest threat to your life is usually just trying to drive in traffic in code nineteen right now. I would say that in asking for campaign contributions may be a. I don't know that that that might that might be a threat but you now but. You know so the a split second decision and and and again what I what I'm fearful here especially since you haven't already worked with law enforcement other than just consulting with them is creating that that the lady that time response the lay. Well somebody a law enforcement officer ponders am I going to end up being sued or something else should I consult a lawyer or something like that before actually do my job because otherwise I'm going to lose everything I have that's my concern I don't understand why we need to remove. A person's immunity protection for certain things that they may or may not be doing when in fact that they do something wrong they can be brought up on criminal charges okay so if you if you want if you would look at if you look at the second page and go to. In really it is just toss it with with two but if you look in. It's. When you again soon to go outside your lines of duty that's when that's when this would this would be in effect and so I I mean I'm I'm. Why I'm I'm made. I understand what you are saying is that when you are operating outside your line of authority the and why we why should we provide you immunity. Well I would and I don't think it's a split second I don't I wouldn't say it was a split second decision when can we can just use George floor it but we have a number of incidences like this to happen after the American community but eight minutes and forty six seconds this issue you short fluent. That's not a split second decision as a minister forty six seconds followers chair but that's why I consent that's why this is the enter study proposal so that we can look at those follow up. And again. Mister Floyd his circumstances that gentleman is going to go in front of a at a trial or pleads guilty or something I mean let's face it you your soon to innocent till proven guilty but this guy's chance because he did exactly what it is he's charged with on this thank any at eight minutes to think about that's not what I'm talking about that's what I'm afraid that will be missing in your proposal here is circumstances that you come in just like I go in and I respond to some type of situation but domestic violence I walk in there I've got some husband that is just cupping around the wife and the kids and how many times is that happened and suddenly. Well he's trying to separate that the white the sites I don't like what he's doing to my husband and now he's faced with a different situation. Mike my concern and why I wished. That I think that you need a front end loader the law enforcement input. On this. proposal before we actually see it. Is to avoid. The possibility of getting something going here that when we get at the end of the study you're going to have the old social ation of share if you're going to have everybody else and that is a terrible idea what is a waste of time I would just recommend that you front end load those those people before you even come up with a document now you whatever you want that for a second Richmond now Representative but if if if Representative Richmond that's fine if a constituent brings me I deal and I have to check with everybody before I'm roll this ideal layout. Yes once again study proposing. The person that were interested came to see me and we're going to begin to work together so that we can have something crafted but. It doesn't work in reverse I mean it's of Representative democracy if someone brings me an idea of the and I'm here to represent them and I'm here to actually flash on an idea so I mean that's that's what we were supposed to be here to do. Is carry out the will of our constituents in so what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to actually carry out the will of the constituent about me and I deal and so therefore those who were interested. They call me and I told him I said Hey I'm I'm happy and I'm I was very thankful that they call and say Hey let's this work miss work together and so we'll begin to study this idea with again I mean in the first thing I said as I don't want to do anything that's kinda unintentionally on do something and so therefore we're up will be looking at that through the study. Follow Mr follow up. And yes but you're asking this body to make an approval on that. You're asking us to say what you are presenting to us right here in front at this particular point which has problems with the beat just that was point out by Representative Dalby. That's an issue that's a problem I don't think you meant for to do that but it does say that on this as well as I don't think you means to limit police enforcement of situation but you may be creating a circumstance where is you're asking us to go and say yes let's do this as an interim study were as I would feel more comfortable if we had just state police and you know some proper representation from the state police or somebody else to come in and give us their two cents worth and say this is workable before I say it's okay now I'm only one vote so you do what you want to do but that's just my concern with it I'm done Mr chair thank you. Okay a Representative rye you're recognized. Thank you thank you Mr chair arm Representative love. One thing I was thinking about here. Was impact in the liability for cities counties in the state of it's going to cost more money for insurance I sure think that we would need to include the US. and thank about this in a what we're doing. No that to cities are straight out I know the state you know we're strap of I'd like to find out what that was going cost for the impact. Okay what is this it'll be in the study. By Representative Dalby you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair up missed like just came down here said it was a re write so but I could see were. On my previous question so that may not be an issue but she was pointing out how there was a re write in their up I want to pick back up on what Representative rye just to ask and just to point this out on page three lines twenty and twenty one it appears that this is going to be of obliterating sovereign immunity which I think is a constitutional issue that you may have problems with when you know toward a when you strike that language in in think in terms of why should a why should a governmental entity of a county or. Some of these listed municipal corporation's school district special improvement except for all the things that you have listed if they have done everything that the they could do they've train their employees they've given on the requisite training they've done all those things then wire we then saying because of the bad act of an individual. Who acted outside the scope of their employment now outside the standard of care that they may be then I'm going to have a real hard time to then impute liability upon that county that school or whatever because they have done everything they've train they've done all the proper you know it and then. By striking this then we're saying well you may have done everything that that person out sought acted out such they didn't have the knowledge that person was the type of person is gonna out act outside and then we're gonna say go ahead and sue this governmental entity I think there's gonna be some real issues there and I'm not sure that it could even stand on a on a challenge to into a higher court which might wanna look at that because I think that that really broadens with the current law is in release placing a burden. After we have a they've already done all that they could do to train some. my thoughts thank you. Okay Representative Rosalie you're recognized. Area thank you Mr chair currently in Arkansas what is the remedy that exists today if someone is extremely abused by a law enforcement officer so let's say for example I've got arrested and they tossed me to bring closet for a week and I get out okay they've they clearly that's false imprisonment there there would be criminal charges but in a lot of crap places we note that doesn't happen. What is the current remedy that I would have is somebody that has been harmed by that action in Arkansas. And that night out on a. You don't know where they're I don't know program does anybody know. Representative Dalby NY one take a crack at that. Represent all you're recognized. Another name want to move Mr Speaker into taking a crack at it but I think what secured if you're acting outside of the of the scope of and these are actions that you're talking about their ACT operating outside the scope and duty of of your training or what is required of you I think that in terms. Try to use a corporate term it pierces the veil it it leaves an opening for that there there can be some civil action already on top of the criminal action there's just so many layers to that that that I. I personally think the law already addresses the types of things that you're wanting us to study. I personally think that there's already an of of of case law and wall that has developed over the years that takes care of of. What you're talking about. Without a radical change in constitutional law in a people of. A hundred years or more of. Court decisions that already would allow a cause of action a remedy as Representative della roses as she would have a room I think in those circumstances would not only if there be a criminal action. Very well could be a call a civil action because there has been that piercing of the veil right that's the question I have because as an individual I have no authority in which to lay down criminal charges that would be a proper a prosecutor so my only recourse would be in civil and what I'm saying that the law says right now it looks like I have no civil no right to civil action in this so that's my question is what is the remedy because in my opinion there should always be a remedy if you have been harmed egregiously especially have should always have an ability so that's that's the question I have right now is what what does the law say to I I think you would have one Representative della Rosa it would be it would turn up on the facts of the case and whether or not that person of active obviously outside the scope it so you do have a remedy but who would I sue for you get to the individual. Well that's not gonna get me anything they're not I mean their place of seven or have any money I mean we know we don't pay police officers all that much so I mean the only way you're going to get any kind of restitution for something like that is if you were to say to the entity that's above them either or the county or city or assuming they even have any money well that is not to get into a legal argument yeah there is a whole nother level law that is developed where you can't get to a deeper pocket. I would be interested in knowing what what that is that it's going to depend on the circumstances what my opinions I think this is already address so I'm not necessarily okay list let's keep this to questions on. Okay. All right represented love you're recognized so you all here's the thing it's it this is a this is the study and I'll be working with different groups and so it's not trying to undo a hundred yards a hundred years of of case law in but it is trying to address issues that we have seen come before us that they need to be addressed in so if if the the the results of the in our study proposing that were taken up is that you know what we may not need to do anything because in this then we won't do anything but if you don't if you don't give the opportunity to study then the date and the only remedy I'm going to have is is I'm going to bring then I'm going to bring a law this of bring something that is not studied in so that's the purpose of a annum study proposal is to actually study that things that are there have been laid before us so that I can bring you back in an educated hang leave I've worked with these groups we have studied this issue and here's the result in may result and and nothing but it may also result in something that. Law enforcement agrees on I agree on my constituents agree on and so forth so that's why I stay in the study really this the importance in the study. All right the. Of Representative Johnson you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair so that the I just wanna make sure I understand from own purposes said the immunity that we're looking to relieve is specifically towards a caddy a municipal corporation so under this proposal if a county a school a special improvement district employed specifically a law enforcement officer and then daisy did any of these things listed under. Page three line six three. Nineteen. Then there munity the that the city would come against the county or the school or the that the proposal. And and I guess the question would have is some of the things like infringement another person's rights in the United States constitution why specifically law enforcement and as opposed to any employee of any of these entities enough and another employee in the entity. In France on another person's rights duties began will it so I guess my question is why specifically law enforcement and I mean if if a teacher in France on the person's rights. Should they also lose their immunity I mean if if it's a bit agree just a vet that we're listing on page three. By any Representative employed by any of these entities should center munity B.. Does that make sense to me okay trying to stand up well I'm just to simply look at it in law enforcement wants if we're gonna look at that I think one of the things that has to be asked is what we open up the door to then look at anyone who's employed by any of these entities committing these acts. We your now maybe were conferring immunity for for a whole lot of people that are representing these I mean the cemex and yet yes I can which is standard I'm looking at law force and I'm not looking I'm not looking at any and others may I ask I hear what you're saying. By Representative brown you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair Representative love I've got a couple of concerns one is that the behavior of the police officer in Minneapolis that Murdered Mister Floyd amend we all assume but but murder to may he had been cited several times for excessive force and there were rules and laws in place they just weren't being of. Enforced amenable with regard to law enforcement there so I think what we all the. That's one aspect in a book I believe we do have you know. Safeguards place. The other part of the S. that causes me concern is. If we pass this they were going to engage a lot of time and staff effort into looking through all the US when indeed I had my own interim study proposal. And everybody was very gracious to let me have it. But then. I once it became as a proposal then people came out of the woodwork and started talking to me about the ideas I have proposed and I thought you know it would have been better if I had talked to these people before hand and then maybe by interim study proposal could have been more sharply crafted and I decided that to persist in having my interim study propose would've been waste of everybody's time so I pulled it down and I'm thinking that there's some issues that have been raised in this room today that would cause me to think that maybe it would be a good idea for you to check with some of these law enforcement entities that would be affected and see if they haven't already made accommodation for this kind of situation that we're trying to protect ourselves from. Just a suggestion. This act against us the entire purpose of the inner study proposal. I guess I'm I'm I hear you also concerns meant that the the the reason for study is just that you're still in the issue in so wow everybody may have other in study proposals I mean I wanted to bring this one so that we can study this issue so I can I can come out with with some good legislation I mean that's basically what we're trying to do. I don't want to come up with the I don't want to. Talk to some in the N. transcontinental to come back to you let's let's study the issue. Okay do I have any other questions. All right seeing none of Representative love would you like to close on this and make a motion. Wow I make a motion that we knew adopted and you are on I guess Hodges heartened by the fact that the we don't feel like we can study an issue and and then come with without working with groups then come together to craft a good piece of legislation because that's where the interest of study proposals supposed to do but I hope that you would adopt the study so that we can move forward and then come Watson get legislation for the ninety third General Assembly thank you. Hello. All right. We have a second. We have a second list of discussion. A Mr Speaker you're recognized. I guess it's kind of a question or clarification with regard to the study at you know I think maybe some of the confusion some of the questions arise from the fact that. Unless I'm missing something the document front of us today is styled as a A bill basically raft of it's a draft piece of legislation whereas many times in fact if you look at represent della rose's interim study that would that we just looked at it was it outline what the study was to compose and so I think it and I may be wrong about this but I I get the sense that some of the concern is that members feel like this is according to some kind of vote on the on the bill itself is drafted add like clarity that even though this is not styled similarly to a lot of other studies that this is not a vote on the bill in front on the draft bill it's a vote it would be a vote to study generally the issue. And I'd like for staff if if that could be confirmed because I think that's that's where some of the. concern and maybe some of the that I'm sensing from some of the members is that. That it's a we've got a draft of a bill in front of this. It's and as opposed to a study proposal. Am I am I correct can somebody yes signed and staff is going down to answer that question of you're recognized Kerry. Thank you chair of my name's Kerry log on the attorney for this committee and Speaker shepherd raises an issue that is correct that nice B. can be done in two different forms it can be done and bill former it can be done in the form that Representative della resident it in so that it looks like a bill it will be addressed in the way that the sponsor would like to address it and it can be addressed in just the same way as represent dollars this bill if that answers your question. You have anybody have any questions. Represent Russia. Yes Sir thank you Mr chairman what does have to be re worked of Mr chair for this to come before study. Think the answer was no on that it will not it can be done in the same way Representative rye it'll be studied just the same way it's just presented in a different format. Any other questions. If not the thank you carry with. All right I have a motion the second all in favor say aye hi those opposed say no. I said it. With no other business before we are adjourned.