Education - House and Senate

Courage you to be here for that. I've discussed with my co chair and II think what we're gonna attempt to do because we want to be far fair consistent is we will recognize committee members first if they're in the queue if that meeting is moving along well and and there are some questions from a non committee member we will address those if that gets a little bit abused and we may have to come back and stop the app of the time being I want to allow questions and feed back because you're going to get questions in in you're going to need to be prepared to have those answers when you get back home to your districts. Without will go to item b will begin adequacy stay the presentation late view measures and mischeely feel identify yourself for the record begin your presentation thank you chairman evans I again i'm surely hold with the bureau and we're here for the second day is representative evidence to set yesterday we tried to like the ground mark let you know it expect and said today were gonna be jumping right into some data my presentation will be a little bit of a bridge between yesterday because i'm going back and looking at those measures in one of those decisions that time or talked about it was and judge calgor's plasky chance recourt decision in two thousand one and we look at theirs and have dense so in our past adequacy studies because this is really you might consider this the first set of evidence that the court looked at to determine that arkansas at the time was not meeting its constitutional mandates for both adequacy and equity and providing education system for students so I will go through those measures that won't take that long to do that and then after my presentation agerian will really explore more in that the twenty twenty three achievement scores. So with their we will get started again at judge kilgor's decision was that the chance record level it was the when then went to him became it we know it's the lake the decision print supreme court when they firmed a lot of his findings. The indicators that he looked at is part of that decision were these that you see in front of you on this first so he really looked out whether tesco performance of students in arkansas then he looked at some educational attainment indicators for the state and then some financial measures and so we have been able to update most of the things that he had and it's decision at the bottom of these education week rankings they have not been continued so and we will not be updating those today that we will go through all of these others. So in terms of the state assessments back when he was riding he was looking back in the nineties was pointed out that only forty four percent of the fourth graders were scoring proficient in reading at that time and thirty four percent at the students were scoring profession and maths at that time the students turkey were was known as the benchmark scores this was part of the former accountability system that we can't act out back in the day it's it for arkansas comprehensive testing assessment and achievement program in since then as you know we've changed to test and we got a new accountability system as well so it's really hard to go back to make direct comparisons so what i'm about to show you at three different trend lines to represent the three different tests that we've had since the nineties so the ad tapped with the mitch marks tests continued for about the next decade and he can see from and the trend like these the blue line are your literacy percentage of states who were scoring proficient or above and the green was for them those math scores and you can see those dear increase by march over over that ten year period and if you may remember to from tailors presentation yesterday she showed you the definition for adequacy that is designed by an approved by this committee and I talked about we want our kids to be professional and the proficient really came because provision was a term that was associated with that test. In twenty fifteen we changed to a different test and what was going on just give you a background is that at that time. And then across the nation there had been a movement to design a common set learning standards and the these were designed by representatives from different states arkansas I had some of our curriculum people from the department who were on these committees and they designed the standards and then the states voluntarily adopted him so I think and then all or about one of the states arkansas one of the earlier adopters of these and what it allowed is that with every student in the nation and being tarped in the same sit of standards then testing consortiums could form and you can make comparisons between states on student performance so about one year which joined it the part consortium with tin other states and washington dc and there were different names to the state and performance levels it was a proficient but what we can have lined up with proficiency where those type two scores so it's either meeting or exceeding standards and while you're not that we can't make a comparison to what was going on the benchmarks at this measured a lower percentage of students that were meeting those levels so thirty three percent percent in earth english language arts in better quarter the students in uhm math for fourth grade. So but when you look at the scores in the other states we were really quiet of right about in the middle and they ranged on the elice scores they ranged from and twenty three point seven percent in new mexico and they're suited scoring at these levels to a high fifty one percent in new jersey and in math the range was a eighteen point five percent in new mexico to forty one percent in new jersey so you can see what we were within those ranges that year that said in twenty sixteen we decided to as a state to move to the act as far as they are in these are the tests them really try to measure more college in creating this and they line with their act which so many of our students take to go to college. So from twenty sixteen to twenty nineteen you can see the scores for mass were in the fifty mid fifties percent scoring it out the was considered proficient and forty within the forty percent for english twenty twenty of course was the year covered there was no testing and then when we came back there was obviously some learning loss this was not specific to arkansas this happened to all across the country in you'll see that no next set of scores we talk about. So the next score is their judge car were looked at where were the night scores but we call the nation's report card and this is the test that's administered by the us department of education to a sample of students in every single state and then also some of our territories and this is the wednesday where you can look and make comparisons as students among the states so in the judge kilgor was writing he found that our fourth and eighth grade level students were scoring below the national average and am severe compare that to now you can see that we've made some progress yet we still town to score below the national average in most of the subjects but you can see we close their gap somewhere with mayor. And you can also see that little bit of a decrease from twenty nineteen to twenty twenty two and again that's probably a largely due to the effects of covered um in reading that got a lot closer over the years and then in science we were really moving the scores app for some reason the twenty nineteen administration about we still don't have state level scores so I can't provide those bed you can see what was going on nationally and then these are the same set of school words for eighth grade and the translate very much the same across all of the subjects. So next in terms of test judge kill gore looked at the act test and that's the college placement exam in historically the act was taken and mostly bad students who were really internet on going to college in recent years states like arkansas have adopted universal where we provide the test to all our students so everyone has a chance to take it but in the beginning that that was not the case acts are so much more common and the central part of the country on either coast and colleges team to accept sat so you see students there are taking the sat more often the bagman judge kilgore was looking at the scores he bound that we were several tenths below the national average at that time and the act is a thirty six point test so several towns on a thirty six point test is more significant banana hundred percent or a hundred point test if you look at us now we're still less than a point away from the national average and the you can see there is a drop twenty seventeen that's when we started the universal testing and what happens when you bring in more test takers you're liable to see a drop in the average so word act often advises you to do and what addering and will do in her report is when you compare among states to do it among states with similar participation rates and here you can see the participation rates for arkansas on the blue line and for us in I mean in actually in the green line in how much slower that is so that probably has a light to do with the difference in scores so we really we probably look much better than the scores I just showed you indicate i'm keeping it the same way that judge killed or did it for this report just or consistency sake but again when we get to adrian's report you'll see it and. Compared a little bit differently. The one bright spite the judge your gore did by was that if you look at just the english compounded at the act our kids were scoring higher than the national average that's no longer the case we're not that were away point six other points and again does participate patient rates probably have a lot to do with that. So the next set of indicators judge california looked at where educational attainment in the first one of those he looked out with how many of our high school students are going on to college whether that's a two year or four year college and back then in the late nineties over just over half a high school graduates were going on to college that is not true today we moved up to the fifties again and about twenty eleven twenty twelve in twenty twenty this is the last year that has the data and we had forty four percent and some of that again may be covered related we know that students chose not to go there that year because of covered and and you can see that decline national as well they that year. The next indicator you looked at where high school graduates and these are not the high school graduation rates that you'll hear from adrian in her report but this is really working out the dark's twenty five years in older to see a web percent of our adults held a high school deployment or higher and back then he found we were below the national average. If you look at as now we're still below the national average though and back app is really closed and on this next slide you can see how the states compare with each other and you can also see that overall range so from highest to lowest it's really just about ten percentage points at the difference the lowest state was california with eighty four point four percent and the highest was main with the ninety four point five percent and their adult population holding those deployments or higher he also looked at the same population to see what percent resolving bachelor's degrees and he found that we ranked forty nine back in in the early two thousand and if you look at it now we still rate forty nine we had twenty five point three percent over our population that had bachelors degrees are higher naturally that number thirty five percent and you can see those translines on this lie and then here again here is our map. Again the amount the states are divided into quintilesso groups of twenty percent the lowest the state with the lowest percent on a battle of degrees was with virginia with twenty four point one and the highest was the district of colombia with sixty three percent. And terms of graduate and professional degrees judge calgor found that we tied for last we were not last in twenty twenty one other state is coming from the sensors in the twenty twenty one it's our latest year and that we are type of fiftieths with north's account we had nine point four percent of our population with graduate or professional degrees. And there you can see the trend lines both nationally and for arkansas and here you see the states again divided into quintiles and the lowest of his mississippi and nine point three percent if they're population with those degrees in the highest was and the district of columbia again with thirty seven point eight percent. The. Next week move it into more kind of financial measures so we looked at median income where the state and bound that again we ranked forty nine we have moved up if you look at the latest data from the senses we were at forty eight and twenty twenty one we were ahead of luziana west virginia and mississippi and this is the trend line for the national average compared to the arkansas average over that course of years. And then this is different differences among the states and I do want to point out here. These dollars have not been adjusted for costs of living differences among the states with I didn't do that here because judge kilgore did not do that when he was looking at it however in our future reports when we're making comparisons among states we will apply a cost of living in dext measure to the and that there's always make arkansas look a little bit better because we have a lower cost of living in so things really aren't quite as expensive here that again that's not done on this slide but will be in the future so if you look at the states um mississippi at that time had the lowest average median household income at forty six thousand five hundred eleven in dc again was the highest with over ninety thousand dollars. Then the last thing that we have their judge kill gore looked at was the average teacher of salaries over the years and. When he was looking at it we ranged in that lower forty eight to fiftieth rankings and we've increased since then the most recent year we had data for is twenty twenty two and we actually ranked forty fifth that year we were ahead of missouri louisiana florida with virginia south sicota and mississippi and this was before the increase with the lawrence act so I don't have that data in these calculations but I mentioned the next time we show you this we we will probably have mapped up again this is what the trend lines look like in this looks really weird this data can spring the national center for education statistics it may they account for inflation over the year so this is constant twenty two dollars so that's why the salaries look a little bit higher by the nationally emperor arkansas in two thousand just the strength of the dollar and changed over those years but you can still save her where a little bit below the national average and this is where it looks like we need right to state. Into those quintiles mississippi again was at the lowest with forty seven thousand one hundred and sixty two in new york at the highest salary ninety two thousand jasmine ray presents the teacher salary report later this spring she will be making those adjustments and said there's numbers will look a little bit different and arkansas will actually look a little better in there's. And that is the that presentation i'll be glad to take questions where we can move numbers of city questions for mr lee on item of your agenda. Representative back you're recognized that in mister chairman I think you was great job again this is always is there a number on independent you talk about the cost living in decks and that within your reports that you guys would be doing that they think is there. Just a ballpark type number that what that adjustment would be would it be two percent where your stuff like that. I can look at i'll have to look at that we use and then there is a the missouri produces something called the merit and where they calculate those differences and so we use that index and apply it. And I would have to I just can't remember what our index number was but you'll get that back to me I will. Any other questions for duly. Sent to brian to recognized that you were are there when you can start to compare states or states within the national average or are there any states they are just bounded out the park. Like with certain strategies or models are doing. Well masters it is always recognized as one it depends on which indicator you're looking at obviously but it generally places like. Uhm massachusetts dc you can see where the tend to be the higher education levels then there are so gonna be the higher income levels but then there's also the higher cost of living so but as far as strategies is we go through our adequacy reports will try to point out when different states are doing different things in terms of in a teachers or curriculum but that kind of thing okay excellent thank you. Seeing your other questions you would thank you very much members just as yesterday the exhibits from today's presentations will come to you from staff in your email box for today and so should you go back through those for review and have additional questions I don't you would welcome those are you send us direct to her we'll go to item c agreement will identify yourself for the record and then in your presentation. The. Adrian back also with the bureau in while she's getting that set up. I'll just know that we're going to actually say we're not going to soon an achievement this is going to be a deeper dive in the more correct the academic measures technical issues. Yeah. It's just signing starting. Sorry we're having a technical issu. The. Sorry about that so you have your power point slides with you we just won't have them on the screen we're having an issue with that the moment so i'll just walk you if you have the hand out in front of you. We do have a power points and scratch that. Thank you for your patience with that or had and get started with our student achievement report. So like she's this this is going to be a fairly data heavy presentation but i'll try to make it as painless as possible as I can i'll start a little bit of introduction to give you a little bit of context that hasn't been touched on yet and then we're going to dig into all of these different academic measures. With that little bit of interduction here so you heard yesterday a little bit about obviously the adequacy statue in all of that and I won't obviously get into that all again buyer I do want to know that that same statute. Calls for the review of and the arkansas educational support accountability act as well as the state standing under the every student succeeds action owners. And then furthermore at the esa plan includes language that includes the long term goal twelve years i've having an eighty percent of arkansas students demonstrate great level proficiency additionally that definition of the adequacy and that taylor and july evoluted to they current wine said has language that says the goal is to have all or all but the most severely disabled students perform at a proficiency on these test referring to the state assessment which is currently the active aspirin. Without we'll start getting into you are data and we'll start with a nap it's really talk about earlier this is a national assessment that's given to a sample of fourth and eighth grade students every two years and every state across the multiple subjects it also tossed has twelve graders but there on a different schedule so they're not included here but for those fourth and eighth graders the most recent data we have is from twenty twenty two so those are the scores that we're going to look at the most today and these are the three achievement levels that are scored on that assessment basic proficient and advanced so scores will be looking at today will be the profession in advanced. I will start with our fourth grade math. So on your left side of that screen you're going to have a little quick historical snapshite duly already provided you a longer history so this is just capturing the last few assessments. I'm with ark with arkansas on the lighter shade in the national average in the darker shades here you'll see that in twenty twenty two m twenty eight percent of earth rate arkansas fourth grade students scored out or above proficient amounts compared to thirty five percent nationally both decreases since twenty seventeen. It in the map on the riot shows you have those percentages very bus state with a darker shade selling the higher percentages and then across the country they arranged from thirty not reasonably nineteen percent at two forty four percent. Then further digging into those scores by a different groups of students. We can see here how those vary against each other as well as with the national averages and i'll add here that for the breakdown of by race and ethnicity we do have other students about the rights ethnicity is there does not represent it here because they weren't enough of those students to meet the nape reporting standards so that's why we only see these groups of students. But that's how these scores break down by race netherlands it in gender and then for some additional student populations these are are in a cell students. This is our national school launch student students or eligible for free or reduced price lunch students that's the equivalent of our enhanced stood in achievement. Funding so you can see our national average or our state average matches the national average there sooner for disabilities these are students who were in special occasion those with an iep. And then el these referred to our english language to learn our students. With that will move into fourth grade reading. So you can see here. A thirty percent of arkansas fourth grade student scored out or about profession and reading compared to thirty two percent nationally both over our decreases since twenty seventeen and then across the states that ranged from twenty percent up to forty three percent. There are friendly digging into those fourth grade reading scores this is that break out by racing necessity and gender. And then with our NSL certain disabilities and yellow students. And you'll see here amongst the nsl students this is one of the groups that tense to opt in see the national average as you'll see here in a couple additional slides. Where that were moving the eighth grade mouth. So nineteen percent of arkansas students sport attorney by proficient compared to twenty six percent nationally in twenty twenty two. And across the states that percentage range from twelve percent to thirty five percent. And then that's how these scores break out by race left the city and gender. Yeah the national average is in the darker shades and then this is how those break out for soon so disabilities and else student. And then finally with our eighth grade reading. We have twenty six percent of arkansas eighth graders for about profession compared to twenty nine percent nationally. And then across the states that ran from eighteen percent up to forty two percent. Then this is how those break out amongst by grace and ethnicity and gender and you'll see here that the arkansas historic student succeeded the national average with twenty four percent compared to twenty percent attorney by profession. And then I will break out fair it's going to be for it in a cell students again success abilities and students. In your see that the inner cell students and arkansas had exceeded the national average twenty percent compare to eighteen percent. So that concludes our neighbor section will move into events placement or the ap program. And this is refers to a program where high school students can pursue college level studies. These courses are offered by districts and four core areas and exams following the courses or scored on a scale from 1-5 with many us colleges granting credit or advance placement for scores of three or above. The. Twenty twenty three forty three percent of the approximately forty three thousand eighty exams taking an arkansas were scored through your above compared to sixty two percent nationally I will not similar to action in some ways that while ap courses are offered in every district and arkansas that may not be the case in every state so that they're populate the national population may have as different group of students taking those exams as compared to arkansas. And then this is how those percentages scoring for your above break out by a school type and district type and julie brook went through these yesterday but i'll just briefly know here again so we have the percentages broken out by whether students are in a district or charter by rural or urban spalls through concentration of free reduced price lunch students and minority students. The size of the district the squalizon whether an appeal cohort schools and these are the schools that were found to be based on a successful school model outperforming the expected performance based on past performance on bass exams and then schools based on their score letter grace you can see how those. Percentage is very there. And if you want more information about that the all our co or methodology that's still in our methodology then definitions report in your binder. The. And then that brings us to kind of a national comparison here so you can see how that percentage this varies and this is a little bit different this is the percent. Am swing for your birth from a class of twenty twenty two. In that range from seven percent up to thirty five percent thirty percent and arkansas can run in the middle about eighteen point nine. For that group. With that that'll take us to the action section. This. And again this is a national college at missions exam that test students on four different subjects score is rained from one to thirty six and the act exam also includes college and hollage reading as benchmarks that are peripherally derived descriptions of essential skills and knowledge that students need to be ready for college and career so going to look at both the scores and those percentages. So we'll start with the scores so this shows those scores by subject and then the overall composite which is a compilation of those for subject area scores. So in twenty three scores range from seventeen point six in english to eighteen point six and science with the average composite at eighteen point two for a twenty twenty three and you can see others compare since twenty one there. And i'll also add and conversations with their that. These including these are just looking at eleven three students scored so if a student took the exam in tenth grade and have been opted not to do it and eleven to they had a higher score intent that wouldn't be represented in this group here. And then this has how those composite scores vary by students are different races and ethnicities. And then this is how those composite scorers vary across the state. So on the map you'll see the darkest shade showing the highest scores so that range from thirteen point six up to twenty two point two and that is looking at traditional school district so since charters are mouth they're meant their range is on on the left which went from twelve point six up to twenty six point seven per twenty twenty three. And then this is how those composite scores varied by a different types of schools and districts not what you take a look at that. And then that brings us to our college reading a spench mark so these other percentage meeting each of an each other subjects and then all subjects is a compilation of all four of those so you'll see and twenty three those percentages range from twelve percent meeting all four subjects and then forty six percent in english. And then this is the percentage meaning off for those benchmarks and how that ranges across the. State. So for the traditional districts again this range from zero percent up to twenty nine and then for charter zero to forty five point seven. And then this is how those percentages buried by different types of scores industries. And then like july mentioned earlier this is our way of comparing these nationally so economic group states that had a similar percentage tested on the act of we were at ninety six percent and twenty three so we looked at states that had between ninety and a hundred percent of their students tested those **** states or some on the left and then we. Took all of their. Percentages score meeting off for those benchmarks and average those to compare how to arkansas did that table there for you. You see there's a pretty close there. The. And then that wraps up our act portion and will move into the act aspire. Which again this is our state wide summit of assessment news for arkansas students in grades three through time and it will be replaced by less than a current score year for twenty four so twenty three will be the last year that we have acts fire scores to look at. Err I will add will get two different measures within the actions fire when I start with the percentage student scoring ready you're exceeding and then we're in a look at average stooding growth scores. So skill scores at each grade are combined in a four different achievement levels as you can see here that's in need of an improvement close ready and exceeding. And then students you scores were falling within reading or exceeding are considered on target for college and workplace readiness by the end of high school so that's why we're bringing looking at those. And then those growth scores those are calculated using a student or a value added growth model and this is essentially a difference between what the student is expected to achieve based on prior assessment scorers and then what they achieve in the current year so there's a lot of nitty greedy details and that they're included in the report if you really want to look into the how that's calculated but i'll move into exactly what you're going to be seeing here today which is a score of eighty means they're on target of above eighty the warming out higher than expected and lower than eight user lower than expected. With that and I also wanted to add on that in arkansas ninety nine percent of students and arkansas were tested which was from ninety five percent and twenty one and that may vary across different states. In terms of their statewide summit of assessments. With that will look at start looking at. These scores so when I look at starting with all students. So in twenty twenty three thirty nine point two percent of students were radio exceeding and balance ela and mass and blue mathes and pink. And then you can see how that varies across this the last three years. And then on the right side you'll see those average brought scores over the last three years and you'll see that in twenty twenty third both subjects had a growth score right around eighty so those considered right on target. And then this is those percentages scoring ready exceeding broken out by grade level. Yeah. And then so you can see their that the percentage ready you're exceeding and mouth tends to be higher in the lower grades in the percentage in ela tonight to be higher in the higher gra. And then that was about average browse for by great level so you can see there's not a whole lot of variation amongst the great except for eighth or tenth grade excuse me and they're just below that eighty marks and is real close there. And then this is the percentage rate you're exceeding broken out by gender and race and ethnicity for both ela on the left side and pink math and pink on the right side you can see how those very in ela there's a large decision larger percentage of the email student scoring ready or exceeding but a more even split in mouth. And then among students have different race ethnicities the percentage ready or exceeding raised from about seventeen eighteen percent for black and specific islander students in both elia math and then sixty five and sixty seven percent amongst asian students for both subject. And then similar this is those growth scores so a similar pattern there. As with the percentage radio exceeding. The. Excuse me. The. This is the percentage rate you're exceeding across the state. This. Friending from six percent up to sixty five percent i'm so sorry. Water get caught in my throat. I think amongst harders that ranged from three percent up to eighty seven percent. The. And then this is the percentage radio exceeding eleven broken out by different districts and charters. And then similarly with their growth scores for ela. And then this is the percentage ready you're exceeding in math across the state so that ranged from five percent up to sixty eight percent across the traditional districts. In zero to eighty two percent. Amongst the open enromment public. And then this is how those math score the math percentage ready or exceeding varied by different types of schools in districts. The. And then those average math growth scores again so you'll start to see some patterns coming up and some of those categories there. Then more to start breaking these down at a different groups of students so we'll start with alternative learning environment students are ali and these are students that are at this program is designed to help students who were not doing well on a traditional classroom environment so you will see it here that five percent of a lease students. Or ready your exceeding and math and nine percent were in ela. And i'm pointing out the ale is then that the blue color there. And then the these are their route scores. Through ali sort of over the last three years again. Eighties on target and below lower than expected so in conversations with design they pointed out that students who are ten a lee didn't have been losing ground and the traditional setting and have lowered chief meant grow scores for ale the lower growth scores and elay indicate that these students are not growing an achievement in all settings running that low average of gross or indicates that these groups are students are losing ground relative to expectations. So then out we'll move on to english language learner students and i'll add here that these strictly look at students who were actively in the yellow program that not looking at students who were have accidentally began monitored now they'll be pulled out and look at separately after theirs. Ummm but it will start with. These are the percentage radio exceeding and math and ela so you'll see that seven percent we're ready you're exceeding an elay and then fourteen percent were in math twenty twenty three. And then these are there this is how the percentage ready you're exceeding in ela varies by different types of schools and districts. And then their math percentage ready or exceeding. And then moving on to the eleven students growth scores. You'll see here a little bit different here that yellow students are in blue and then non ellow students are in ping so they had the higher growth score here just above eighty with the other students just below eighty. The last three years. The. And then these are there yelley growth scores by different types of districts in schools. And then these are the math growth scores can these are further else students. In then as I mentioned earlier these are going to we pull that scores for monitored students so once students accident el program they must continue be monitored and receive appropriate academic support since as needed for four years so their scores are showed here in the monitored former eleven students in all other students. Compared there you'll see that their scores are higher than all other students for about the percentage ready in exceeding as well as their average growth scores. Then that brings us to free reduced price lunch students. So in twenty twenty three thirty percent of the assurance word ready you're exceeding and ela and and mass. Compared about fifty six fifty seven percent of all other students in twenty twenty three. And then this is those percentages and ela broken out by different types of scores and districts. The. And then in math. Then we'll look at their growth scores and ali amounts they've been the gross was i've increased over the last few years so just rough under the eighty with the non free reduced price lunch students just above the eighty mark. For the last three years. Jen these are their growth scores and ela broken out by different types of districts and charters. And then they're mathrow scores. So we're gonna move on to instructional methods and we're going to look at how performance very bad the type of instruction they received and so we have three kinds shown here we have traditional or been in the physical classroom full time that's shown in pink then we have students and over fully virtual environment that's in blue and then students and a hybrid of bonus and green so you can see how those are very the last three years I know it's a few lines here but you'll see that and twenty twenty three the highest percentage of students ready you're exceeding and ela were in a hybrid environment and then in a traditional environment and for a math. And then these are the growth scores for the same groups and you'll see that students in the traditional environment have a highest grow scores on both though you'll see their fairly close and that ela category. Between the traditional on the virtual environment. And then finally we'll look at students for disabilities so these are strictly students and special education those with an iep or individualized education program. In your see that in twenty three six percent we're ready you're exceeding an elaine and then ten percent were in math. Ning seasons increases and both groups of the last three years and then this is how that percent and ela varies across different types of schools and districts. And then in mouth. And then we'll finally look at their growth scores seek and see. The sped citizens special locations shown in the blue line there so they were see some variation there but they're just under the eighty market seventy eight and twenty in met in ela and then seventy nine and mouth compared to just over eighty for all other students. And then this is how their elay growth scores varied by different types of schools and districts. And you'll notice here that only one of those scores is above the eighty mark that students in the schools are given a school that a great of a. And then their growth scores and math. So that wraps up our acts fire section and the run a look at some additional achievement measures that are used for specific populations and these are going to be for english language learners and for students and special education soon to disabilities. Um so within these two groups they had their required to take some additional assessments that were going to look at those today and for earl side as we have a few of those so we'll start with our english language learners so we'll start with their growth score this is the english language profession see grass for similar to the growth scores that we've been looking at so eighty on target and then anything above and below is higher lower than expected so and twenty three they had a growth score of eighty three point eight zero higher than expected. And then for the alpha twenty one. This assudents were spotted required to annually assess you well students were determined whether they have progressed english language proficiency or if I need to continue services this is done they they alpha twenty one some of assessment so it doesn't assess prior academic knowledge but it does assess students proficiency and great appropriate language of each academic subject. And that elbow twenty one was developed just little bit of context there it was developed by consortium of that seven states including arkansas and the majority of states are in another consource on that has their own the wrong. And then the romating states have their own assessment. And then and so you will see that in twenty twenty three nine percent of the approximate thirty nine thousand year old students tested where considered profession and that so they were able to accept them eligible to exit their program thanks on other criteria. And then finally we have the all elpa so this is a newer alternate assessment of english language proficiency and it's designed specifically for k twelve english fires who have the most significant cognitive disabilities so you'll see a smart smaller portion of students tested on that for percent of roughly five hundred students tested there and you can see that breakdown by grade level for twenty twenty three. And i'll add that this is a assessment that's used by nine other states and then that would be consortium has their own alternative assessment that's used by those groups of states and the nursing and raining states that have their own for that group. So that takes us to students to disabilities so they have their own assessment as well this is the dynamic learning maps not sometimes one is a dleon. So they're using their students they're considered targeted vanced those are shown here of the last three years that's gone up from eleven percent to thirteen percent and twenty three and math. And then twenty three percent to twenty five percent roughly in an ela. And this is an assessment that's required of students if they have the most significant comment of disabilities and this is a determined through their iep team and so some students will take theirs and then more students will take either acts fire or the actions fire with some accommodations. As is needed. In this assessment is used by a nineteen other states and s. So that takes us to our final section which is our graduation rates says duly ludic earlier this is going to be the rate of this is going to be a four year graduation races a little different than what julie talked about earlier. But this is based on a student through graduate from high school in four years including those students with the most significant comment of disabilities who receive an alternate plumber. So we use the four year graduation rate this is required under the elementary and secondary education act. And you'll see here that in twenty three that number increase to eighty nine percent over on. And then this is how that state average shown in yellow compares with different groups of students in arkansas you will see more students graduation rate exceeded the nuss or the state average and twenty three. And then you can see how that roped out by different recent ethnicities in the state. And then this is how those graduation rates vary across the state. With that raining from sixty six percent to a hundred percent across the traditional districts and then forty one percent to one hundred percent in the open enrollment public charter school. And then finally will do some national comparison there. So this comes from the national center for education statistics in their most recent data from twenty twenty second sea here arkansas and yellow at eighty nine percent compared to the national average of eighty seven percent so exceeding the national average in that group for the last few years and then finally and we have a national map showing how those percentages very across the country couple of those states in the lighter shades and have date available to the other wise that range from seventy three percent. In the in dc up to ninety two percent in west virginia. And then with that that concludes my presentation i'll be happy to take any questions agree thank you very much not a good information there appreciate all this time you put in together in that you go back about things for five slides to the ell measures. Yes so. The. The. We can try out without slide. Okay right so you had to slide their own ellow measures yes in and we were looking at proficiencies yes and I noticed a trend on on both of those where. Students started out with a very low proficiency and as they progressed through six that number increased ahead significantly and then a very sharp drop off seventh and eighth grade and then slowly progressed back up to twelve. Do we know are the students that remember in that is that students that that. Typically interesting system at a younger age and they show growth and then a sharp fall off. And then another growth or is this a snapshot in time of a student who just moved into a district so maybe at seventh and eighth grade and they were tested and assessment was dying just to see their proficiency and then that was a measurement at that time and then it was gained through the latter years of. Of high school. Yeah I think I slab ships by the best way when I will pride a further the department cause they may have a better explanation for that since they're more familiar with those students and those scores and but that would be the best i'll could be able to answer that is throughout that certainly give the departments want to look and see is there a tree and as to why students when they hit seven eighth grade they're dropping off considerably because we went from good growth to downtown to single digits or is this more just a snapshot of an age group in time when they move into the district by that point if they've not had any background in in in english language then. The challenge arises them but we're still able to bring a backup will go to questions will start representative. Thank you we were here for on the act section when you're talking about the college readiness I noticed that in the composite score only like twelve percent were scoring college ready in all subjects so does that mean that eighty eight percent of students leaving argos or high schools are going to need read mediation and higher ad in are we seeing those numbers better out I don't have that data to show exactly how they're doing and college love i'm not I couldn't say exactly if that's what's happening can only saving or happen the twelve percent bed that's possible we can certainly look into seeing for the incomparisons with any hurry level achievement at a big stood in getting that number because if we say only twelve percent or ready and then. The. Course not every high school student is going to go to college so that makes you that number i'm just curious what percentage of students do need remediation when they enter and our college and then my second question is the mention we're going from the act aspired to the hours test out can you give us just a high level overview what the at least test is. I can find a little bit and i'll be a very high level on anything else will be the the department then and and maybe it's a department question about you know why we decided that one's better than the act of advantage of this range in all that counter not sure if I have while she's looking for it at it i'd think it will be much more similar to those original benchmark tests i've talked about because they're going to be based on arkansas set of learning standards in and testing cards against what they're learning are mostly interest where the act is is I think they've done some tests over the years and found that there's some similarities but this should be much closer towards being taught in the classrooms alright thank you things now it is add that it's going to be for students in grades three three eight in elay math and science and then students will take into your exams in ela for grades nine in town and then and of course exams for our some additional math classes there. The. The. Senator hammer you're recognized thank you mischer page eleven. I noticed that reading proficiency from reading this rate reading proficiency was declining prior to cobin. Yeah many and what I was wondering is this there anything that we did prior to that refresh my memory what we did prior to that that should have had an impact where that decline was not going down but maybe they get the results we thought it would be but if i'm reading what i'm page. I'm not sure if I could give going to too much detail about the there might be better for the department to get in some of the programmatic parts of that that may have an impact there okay then the so question would be on page nineteen. Yeah. The. On eighty three reading this is for students with disability with without do we. I know there's been some changes I think they're being proposed as far as. Dealing with children with disbuilt what might be their regular setting clashroom to your transition to a new setting. Do we know or at what point will we be able to bench mark how those changes are going to impact these force to see if it's benefited or not. Director understand your question to see how the benefit or the impact would be of students you were switching environments in terms of where they're receiving their special ducation services. Yes well would we would we not see that tool the next year cycle or when do you think we'd have measurement on there. Well I would first I mean a. You might see that in exactly bid might be hard to tell because nape level we don't have we can't really get down to a student level so we don't have a way of knowing exactly where the replacement is to know which i'm not sure that nape has that kind of breakdown by the location the place where where they're getting their services okay can I have a couple of quick ones from assume go ahead thank you. When when you went through the presentation I looked at the various states seemed like some states were really strong in certain subject matters others were weak without going back through a could tell you but you like seemed like the mid western states the northern side they seem like they did get in some subject maybe california good northeast do we do we are have we compiled a. Document that shows it in each of those states where they are doing good what they have done that put them here yet while in other subject matters they don't seem to be a strong as some other stage we have not put a list like that together we can certainly try to do that it might be a little bit tricky just because to fully encapsulate all the programs that are happening at any given state but we can certainly see if there is any kind of information available or try to dig into that a little bit to maybe get some overall patterns or trans that might be happening amongst some of those dates and different subjects okay because I found it in receive that some states like in math are reading they're doing really sharp but others hard at least know what programs are if we could mischair and find out what some of those things are doing to see if the comprehensive overall package will be happy to look at that thank you and then the last thing years ale when it comes to early. Have we looked at what other states are doing that because if I interpreted what you said a while ago on early it seems as I were not getting the results maybe that we'd hope for that numbers would indicate that we're not performing as well as we thought we would if they were in a alien environment. Do we have anything that shows what other states have done where they have better results in what we do right now i'm not sure if you know of any really i've not looked into that specifically to see how that varies but that's right only something we could look into a little bit further to see how other states are comparing in terms of the ale environment or is might be a little bit different i'm not sure if it's the same kind of rapporteur apples comparison but we can certainly see what we can come up there in terms of similar environments for students okay monsieur can ask your question please you go ahead so when we have this can discussion and we're all asking these kind of questions do we need to channel what we would like to see like him what I just ashed through the chair so you can compile it altogether or do we have liberty to go straight to the staffer has have the cheers address that may be minister what would the chairs so staff actually is compiling the list of questions I ask they will address whether it goes to blr or to the department and we'll have it sent out to the committee thank you sir. The representative brokes thank you mister chairman address thank you for home or can duel as well this is matter data is a very helpful quick question you can hit on this as you're going through the city as far scores comparing with the neighbor scorers is there a is there a broad standardized definition of what student with disabilities actually mean something when you talk about the easy to expiry you mention students and special education with ap but do they do they break that down to say here's actually what our definition is about category so arkansas has we have a specific it's in statute the different type of disabilities that are calculated in that those are strictly students who are going to be in special education they have an iep we're not looking at students with a five or four plan for example in the nationally there's a national I don't know i'm assuming they wouldn't use the sub the state where the national definition for that which is very almost various almost exactly what the state definition is and for our nate scores we pull out students with five or four plan to be consistent with how we look at presidents and arkansas so it's strictly those who have an ip where an additional special program within their their school. Representative you recognized. Thank you mister chair i'm think you all for your work I think maybe some of the most important that's done around here in trying to make sure we do it's best for the kids so thank you and I think it's all fascinating I have a couple of questions depend on the lenancy of the chair so my first one is on the easy to expire on the data towards the end I noticed it's twenty twenty one twenty two twenty three which obviously were taken out before is their particular reason that you only presented that data those three years so I just did those three years as kind of just the be a little simpler she had her and until his presentation she has four is going back to the origination of that in twenty sixteen so she has. Since she I don't want to be too redundant there and just kind of focused in on the most recent years for that portion thank you so the growth and all of those comparisons go back further and the other presentation there are some of the numbers coming out me I mean so I can find all of that because I am curious to see the trends. I know some from my experience where they were going to had a coverage that often has people say will cover its reason why this is happening and in my limited knowledge the summit is trendy was happening before it covered too so it it definitely played into it but it didn't. It wasn't the only reason for the trends down we're seeing so if you wouldn't mind pointing it to that later again making sure that see what that is you would keep back up please actually catch you off. Thank you my second question is. I know that I don't want to go test crazy because I think sometimes we're spending more time testing and we are teaching but in your k one in two is there somewhere where we can get our hands on the data I know that they test typically independently or I guess from the state but where we see where the trends are going in those before they get a third grade and we discover they're not reading I know the class from teacher knows but reading as well so it's so kwelve has their own assessments in the very there's four I believe it is four different assessments they have so it's all i've not seen any aggregate number of that I can work with the department to see if they have any aggregated scores since there are so for a test across a few different grades there may be some issues with some of us break out but I can certainly recall to the department to see if those are available if that would be possible just to be nice to see if not that they need all have the same test but just to have some idea of where they're seeing their school districts going in the proficiency and stuff in k one two patrickly one where they're starting to the reading and too and my final question thank you so much mister chair allowing me to act these. On the ale not on that data do we is there an indicator somewhere on how those ali classrooms are being utilized if you're being utilised. For the purpose intended is there anywhere that were that's being collected so we can actually know if we're under utilizing or if there are being misunalized. I'm gonna let the duly wants to tackle that one the department does a report each year looking at ale and they monitor those programs there some different forms available programs now the there are some coops that offer programming that is more tins be more related to jobs for the older kids and job training in addition to either academic work so so the programs do can look different across the board we do we don't have that data to say with each program looks like but the department may be able to help you with that sure thank you. Representative garner recognized for question. Thank you I forget i've got a lot of questions again about ali as well are students generally once they're placed in al art alley do they stay there or do they go back and forth or how do we know where we're catching ale students in those testing years right enroll it will discuss a little bit more the sprang but all they the whole purpose of ali is to help their students be able to return to their traditional classroom so and ale student often is not there for the entire year and a lot of times they're not there for the entire school day so that's why they're offended in terms of full time equivalents because they're very few that are there of six hours of the day all hundreds of symptom two school days. So. Internet i'm not sure how I mean that's gonna be different for each suited when it comes to testing and where they are doing the testing period so but there is another way to do assess those alley students or do we put them just back into. There are committees that work for and their place that student invase came up with the outcome can criteria that students need to meet before their place back but all that operates are think very differently for each individual student to meet their needs. Represented back you recognized thank you mr chair in this question maybe there is looking at ict scores. And taking the categorising what those students are doing based upon their act scores for instance i'm screws as an example it was we have a twelve percent they are saying they're ready for college. Did those people that are. The law students that are graduating ready for college or they want percentage those two interaction going to second post secondary education programs versus. The broader pooling out so it's it's it would be curious to me I misinterested in when a student leaves the education system they go to different places some of the lot going to pull secondary but the question would be as what percent of the students said that. Perform or the basically level to said that a ready for college actually attend college versus. Does it may not be israeli. So we unfortunately don't have any kind of launch a two dollar data like that that would track a student from high school to higher so we wouldn't have a way of knowing specifically that we can to say how many students are in higher at or how they're but we don't really have any way to track soon from high school to higher like that. Members any other questions. See none please thank you very much for your presentations today we look forward to seeing what you bring us. Next month. Members were going to move now to item d on our agenda it's kind of recursor this purpose of just for information and for discussion it's not an action item together some information is going to hear some stories um what's going on with their schools and so at this time i'd like to invite your debit jones. Martial kelly correlation in jeff webster. Is there some of them. The. Thank you all for joining us today it's time want to recognize senator brian commence in the end we will go to you at the table and each individual if you would have time identify yourself for the record and then respond to the questions or comments from the set of debris. Thank you mister chair and thank you all for coming down and spending your day with us because you're three hours one way three hours back plus a couple hours here and learn to it really does take a day and I know you left with some with some weather on your mind so I appreciate you coming down for this discussion and they do have a presentation that they'll give us I won't get to foreign the details I assume mister webster did you want to go through the power point that we have here presented to a ser. We we will have some comments but we're not going to present a power point we showed that for informational purpose okay while I let the the members of the committee know that there there is a uh wonderful power point presentation on your desk and also on the documents online that you can view is maybe as they're discussion this discussion this but. What this comes from is is a conversation I had over the summer as bit of a public schools was looking to donate land for the use of affordable housing and some constituents in my district expand into the benefit of school district so as II researched kind of what the plan was I too had some concerns or some questions about the policy that was being enacted and so I started asked questions and research a little bit into this topic and then when I expressed my concerns to dr jones the members of the school board I was made aware that there's three different attorney's opinion saying that this falls in line and the guides with the policy set by the state and one of those attorneys being our or attorney general's office so I think it's important that we as legislators need to understand the impacts of what this policy does in concerns as a concerns affordable housing with a use as educational purposes and so my hope is that that this is an opening dialogue that continues out the year says we go into a legislative slight legislative session next year if we need to address your tightened or understand some controls that that we can do that because for me this opens the door to a lot a lot more like this throughout the state if this is the policy that we're setting so I don't I don't want to delay any more details like to turn it over to this this group to let us know. The. Red rate is good there you go good morning legislators thank you for your time to answer some questions about attainable housing i'm debit journalists superintendent of bitten bill schools. Martial partner with friday eldridge in clark in the northwest arkansas office and our represent the school district kelly carlson of current school board president individual school district. Jeff webster ceo of accelerate foundation. As I said thank you for your time this morning this is an important heart topic we like most districts across the nation are facing a shortage of teachers the pipe wine is getting smaller and so really this was an attempt to address that situation as a we are competitive for teachers and or doing all the things the residency programs there high school programs were were growing our own teachers and so we really are very progressive in trying to why don't that pipe pipeline of teachers but we're still faced with their ever growing challenge of the housing cost in northwest arkansas I don't know if you're aware but since twenty nineteen from twenty nineteen to twenty twenty three housing cast for a single family home grew by fifty five point three percent in the first six months of twenty twenty three the average cell price of a home was four hundred and twenty three thousand dollars in bittenville that price was five hundred and five thousand dollars and rental prices aren't that much better in northwest arkansas the average home the average write told cost was nine hundred and fifty dollars and in bitten bill that was more like thirteen fifty and so as were a trying to hire your teachers we noticed personally within the district in twenty twenty one it really started. I offered several people contracts which they accepted and then they got into the housing market and had to give that contract back they could not accept that job. And so since twenty twenty one we've had conversations with the northwest arkansas regional council the chamber the city planners and just looking at some of the challenges of housing costs cost then as you know we are competitive with staff wages in northwest arkansas but still that doesn't seem to be enough to address some of the housing calls for our staff and it's not just teachers it's policemen it's fire minutes our service industry and so we wanted to seek some solutions to this and while this solution is unique and arkansas it's not unique across the nation many school districts like austin and others are trying to look at staff housing and while I never wanted to get into the management business and housing it is the districts responsibility to provide the most highly qualified staff we can for students and so this really was an answer to her problem we're trying to address. And so then we approach the accelerate foundation and they are a non profit and many ask why accelerate we've had a partnership with the accelerate foundation for over twenty years and in my eight years and bitten bell schools they have been the nine profit that I would go to for assistance for my staff. They administered the heart sister which is when our staff could not when they needed some renewal assistance when they need assistance with college tuition or paying bills or they just space some of life circumstances that's the group that I went to councilling services and they were very responsible and administering that and at the end of every year they would tell me how many not who but how many am staff members they served within the district each year since i've been there they've contributed two hundred and eighty six thousand dollars to our preschool programs and show you can see where that trust has developed over the year since i've been there and so when we're facing this challenge I went to jeff website and said we have to do something about housing. And some have asked when why don't you just build housing for staff. That's not within our phone balance with it because we are also a growing district and you know how frequently we open new schools the money that we save is directed towards opening new schools and capital projects within our own district and so when we went to jaff we also said and we have zero dollars to contribute to this to this plan. And so after a minimuds of work in really we worked on this since twenty twenty one he came to us with a solution that has such a high return on investment for this school district and what would it cost this what would it cost this school district. We have a little tiny piece of the bit the high school campus that is right on the back trail it is six sakers that is actually developed that's able to be developed because part of that rest within the flood plane it is a piece of our high school property that we could use to provide some housing per staff in order for him to be able to do that and come up with the concept he had to have some people come to the table to do not donate funds to make it happen and this is approximately a twenty five million dollar concept design within the design and you can find that within the power point you'll see that and there are two apartment buildings within the middle and then forty cottage type houses those forty cottages are dedicated just a bit in the staff and the apartments within the middle would be open for a hide housing so within the forty cottages half of those within the concept would be for rant and the other half would be as shared equity program and so what kind of prices are we talking about. Within the apartments where a two bedroom typically rans around fifteen hundred dollars in our area it would be seven hundred fifty dollars for mall taff family housing for the single family rental that is just first staff that would run about a thousand dollars and for the equity program on the twenty other cottages that would be about fifteen hundred dollars. So within their the plan it is really trying to get teachers on the esco escalator to ownership they may move from the apartment and it's not just teachers it's also custodial staff cafeteria workers and so forth move from the apartments to the renewal cardages to the shared equity program ideally we would set within the program that staff are able to stay within the the housing for five years when they move out of the shared equity program after not paying on the not paying a down payment not paying pomar or taxes they would walk away with their check to deposit on their first town and said this is the concept that we have designed and I believe the district certainly did they're do diligence and trying to make sure it's a legal process now it only did we go through the legal firm worth to accelerate foundation we went through the attorney general and waited on that opinion and we are so hard a martial nice firm spend considerable tom looking at the law to issue their opinion and so we believe after we received green lights from those areas we continued with discussion this has been a topic that has been shared with our community no less than twenty times between articles news reports board meetings and so the community has had every opportunity to respind and we've had lights of positive response on this and personally i've had less than five negative respites on their since so the board certainly I was very diligent and looking at all the information hearing back from the public and they supported the the movement to move ahead with the project. And i'll be happy to answer questions or anyone appear can answer questions and before we go to question you just want to see doctor jones anyone else with your grave one wouldn't you provide comments. Legislators are i'm just webster appreciate the time to speak with you maybe i'll give you a little bit quick context of who is accelerate for some of you and various parts of the state you may not know kind of who our foundation is so we are foundation we were created about twenty five years ago from the sale of the better bell hospital in the springdale hospital that were were both nonprofit when two non profit hospital sell to four profit which has become northwest health if you think about where this money goes from the transaction so it creates a health conversion foundation regional corpus about a hundred and thirty million so that's where original funding came from twenty five years ago our assets now are about a hundred and fifty million and what we do as we make grants and back to helping various constituents within northwest arkansas so that could be abc pre k which we've supported about thirteen million dollars over the last six or eight years through various schools in northwest arkansas kind of larger small but other contributions back in the social service sector where we run that organization called hark and we help people get connected to resources we distributed about eighteen million dollars worth of covered relief phones are to people with not with a northwest arkansas so that's in our social service sector we have a another education sector where we run a program called upskill that helps non traditional students maybe a thirty five year old mom actually be able to go back to school in the health care sector so we run that and then we do a lot in the housing sector which kind of brings us here so we've helped i'm get a lot of different housing built within northwest arkansas by bringing people together we're kind of noted for that so this project as doctor jones said it really has three pieces to it it has a multi family peace where we leverage a lot of federal dollars that are out there that come into the. State so they're federal dollars that are coming into the state so how do we make you said ours then we have as she said single family reynold cottages and then we have a shared aquity program so talking around that maybe the funding of this it's about a twenty four twenty five million dollar program the the school makes the land available about ten million of that is coming from federal i'm sources if you will as far as how we find it about nine million is coming from fillant repeat so I can't speak for all of the different partners on that but I can say our foundation will put over five million dollars into making this happen so we are a funder of this as well as managing the project. And then the last piece is really the private sector in the form of loans conventional loans that go into this very unique program and terms of of what it does again all of the pricing we we understand what people need very wealth through the other projects that we've done within the state they are the shared equity program if you think about why does the person want to own a house well it's the equity in terms of the appreciation that house over time the idea of your year when you pay in principle you're there essentially getting that back versus going towards rent. But you have all these barriers as far as i've got to come up with a down payment or I pay t m II got to pay insurance I gotta pay taxes I got maintenance all of these types of things that make it prove preventative from being able to do this. So the person in this program so think of this a starting teacher and their family can live and participate in one of these homes they make a principle principle and insurance paint our site principle and interest payment like you would on a normal house but there is no down payment requirement there's no pm requirement they're not paying taxes they're not paying insurance other than on their contents and they participate in the equity appreciation on this so it's a pretty remarkable program we've had a lot of different to be honest cities or states look at what we're doing here and said how could we model this and other cities around the country so that's really what the I won't go on and on but that's what the program is all about whereas I foundation were excited to be part of this and be partnered with the school date thank you mister website doctor joe's members will go to questions now if you look for other down item d were also once we have them excuse we're going to call up ron ousley from the attorney general's office and on roads chief legal council from the department of education to give their perspective so if your question is is legal may want to hold that until we bring them to the table will start representative thought thank you mister chair thank you for the presentation and i'm certain over here for those that can't see me I have a couple of questions I did here you say that you'd given several different opportunities for someone to come speak for against how that map be did you have any town holes where people came together and you discussed like this presentation in front of town holes because that would probably be more app to have more people at to give you their pros are no we have board meetings and we had a board workshop which is more of a casual setting as well okay and then I have a follow up question would be I know I think I heard you say that some of the housing would be head housing. So I know head is only as good as it's manager but has had housing really is not a great program at all in our state if you look overall across the state head housing is extremely mismanaged and not taken welcome taking care of so who will be the manager at these properties and how will they be keeping them at. Yeah so great questions you have a kind of multiple in there it's a lemme trying to address those maybe a a clarifying point when when doctor john says had housing it's really the the light tech program that operates through federal money that operates who the state and I think within the state the state would say this has been a very successful program it's the low low housing income tax credit program that is administered by adverts so that distributes about a hundred million dollars every year to various projects throughout the state of arkansas it's been a program that's operated since nineteen eighty six that is endured kind of and it has never stopped so that's my opinion but I think that's a very strong program that that the state of arkansas participates in so so that's the program and then we will partner with folks that have that experience around the property management of this there is multiple multiple infact four levels of compliance to make sure that the right person is living there as far as income the right aspect of what those rents are rents can basically only go up with cpi you can't just all of a sudden start and say i'm taken rents up their protected in that way by adsl the state as well as the federal government for thirty five years to make sure those rents just all the same don't skyrocket so that is in place and then there's two other mechanisms of compliance so that's come check on every year so agree that the compliance mechanism is super important and that's what will be in place can I have one more follow up sir thank you and can you tell me how many of your teachers are staff will be taken advantage of this and are these houses open to other people in your area or just two staff members of your of your school thank you mr chair yes so so we're the target is a hundred units that will have their and think of it as sixty that are in the apartment piece and. Forty that are the single family cottages that we do two different things there because we take no federal or state dollars and the the forty cottages we can be very restrictive there and only employees of the school system with the other sixty that the apartments you can influence what goes on they're making sure the school employees are aware of this when the sign up process is but you follow fair housing standards so we think of it as it's it's for the employees of the school that the parents are the students or other people that live in the district. Side stop there on that one yeah I can add to that we are going to be very progressive about when we do the hiring that we share that information from the very beginning because even the apartment supported by the live tech funds if you think about are aids that were in their working hourly a hundred and seventy eight we have a lot all of us in our districts have a lot more employees that would be eligible for that housing then we were last. This. Written representative makes you recognize thank you ever heard you to your far right and just my preliminary look at this III appreciate the good intentions here but i'm highly skeptical of this for several reasons and now i'll share some of my concerns and then you can try to address those as as best that you are cared first off liability to the school that potentially could be created here if god for bed something happened in one of those apartments there is a wrongful death there's a major accident there at tornado goes to there what is the liability now to the school district because you're your managing these properties. Well the school the school district would not be the owner of property you know rep what one of the other ones will have to turn your mic off it oil okay. There you go alright so would not be liability of the school district because the school district would not be the property owner now in terms of what would happen if some resident of the of the property then did cars home at the on the property of the school district then of course the state recognizes toward immunity for the for the district under that scenario so I don't really see this as a potential liability standpoint that the district in terms of a catastrophe again I would default back to not the property owner and i'm sure the property owner would be covered by a robust insurance policy so that other than owning the property that this is on the school district would have no liability the district would not own the property that the district would be donating the property the districts contribution to the program would be the donation of the six acres okay my follow up my my next concern is. The maximum federal money going into the building will there be any taxpayer money going into this project at eighty point after the building is my concern is is this you're increasing if taxpayer money is going into this what you're doing as you're increasing the tax burden on my constituents to help your school district but you know that that happens all the time but then if your school district does this then the next school districts going to want to do at the next school district the next school district and before you know it there's going to be this expectation that now suddenly the state on top of providing salaries to teachers and stay the state and the taxpayers of the state are going to be required provide housing as well you see how this could very quickly get out of hand so could you address that concern please yes so in short there is not ongoing tax payer dollars going into the facility or a program so there is the initial money that comes in as I describe which is really from taxes that have already been paid it's just making sure state makes use of those versus another state but then as you go forward the key things when you look at kind of sustainability of the program is power taxes covered as far as property taxes how is the insurance covered house replacement covered and how it's maintenance covered we've got a very robust reserve i'm created for that we've had five different banks look at this and say ask the question do we have a big enough reserve and based on various banks commercial experience we we exceed what others would be doing and remember we are the owners of this and we you know who are are foundation is is geared towards helping people so we want to make sure that there is a big enough reserve on this it's not about our foundation making a result return again we're putting where the ones putting the money into it. So hopefully that answers that question so to be self sustaining there will never be any liability to tax person any point in the future from this nothing in terms ok and then my my final question mister chairman is this housing is only supposed to be for for staff not the hour with the hyde but that but the other housing only for staff members. How do you hand to the situation where staff member gets fired. We are in the process of reaching an agreement with specifics but there is a tar mine upon which they have to vacate the property if they no longer work for the school district things drum. Senator hammer you're recognized. Thank you mister chair. The. And maybe there should be some of the questions for the follow up on but when it was taxpayer dollars that bought the property in the first place and I commend you for your innovation that I want to come in job for that first fall but just clear a few things that it was taxed out per dollars that bought a property in the first place. How did your manage as far as not offering that property to other districts if the district deemed that it was not gonna be used by the school if understood right you're now turning ownership over to the new adventure so how to get through the work round on that well there's there's not actually a work around the district is just following the statute so what the statute says of course is in six twenty one one oh eight the school district is in power to donate real property that would serve a beneficial educational service for the citizens of the school district in that determination has been made. The I believe you're then asking about the right of access to unused and under utilized public school facilities which applies to charter schools. A and what that statute says in six twenty one eight fifteen c wine is it says except as otherwise provided in this section a school district shall make unused under utilized public school for civilities and that's the key word available for least or purchase for no more than fair market value to any public charter located within the geographic boundaries that is contrasted with the language in the rest of the statute that talks about either public school facilities or real property so it's only a facility and not real property that's under the mandatory requirement uh under the statue passed by the legislature to offer that to a charter so the the real property just doesn't apply to the mandatory requirement of offering now we didn't just stop it it you know it it my understanding in my reading of the language although it's clear you'd probably seen an email exchange that I pay out with the department of aired to make sure that my reading of the statute was consistent with their reading of the statute such that they viewed this as a mandatory offering to charters and and I believe when they come up here you'll find that we're aligned with what the statute says and i'll just give you the example and this may be a little more information than you then you want but when you get past c one and you go to see two it talks about once a public school facility or other real property is identified by the division as an unused utilized property so that shows that you can identify real property as under utilize or unused for purposes of offering it to a charter but that use of or other real property does not fall within the mandatory section of the statute in so I ask the question under this scenario would you ever under the present circumstances identify. The the raw and the real property are as as unused or under utilized for purposes of offering it to the charter in the answer was now. Okay and will because of the arrangement which is unique you'll have to comply with all of the federal large as far as discrimination I notice on the website you'll you know are investing quite a bit one part of you know society i'm just want to make sure that as far as what you are going to do that it'll be equally available to everybody without regards to race gender section the other things that are required to the federal regulations yes absolutely it follows all fell fair housing standards which is what you are referring to and again that strict guidelines that are passed from hudd to add for and then to us and the compliance on that is checked every year okay and then to the superintendent i'm just curious because honestly wheels or turn and you you got the advantage you've got if as looking at your website you guys are a heavily favored you know as a entity in less emission at the accelerate foundation guys are heavily vested toward northwest are concerns so i'm certain here thinking world war central are concerned the others so superintendent what it what are you doing to compensate the other employees that already are you know deep into ownership of a home they're not going to be able to take advantage of this how you going to address the issue of disparity between what you're doing for those are going to be the one hundred lucky once to get this and the other ones are are especially if they borrow invested a lot of money in a home in the area are you handling that dynamic in your district we look at that is our within our benefits package and we do a number of different things beyond the salary to try to retain teachers and they have a limit of five years within this property for a reason so that then we can turn around and open that up to a whole new group of employees within this and so although we couldn't guarantee everyone has a place in the housing. It is at least the people the openings that we do have will start to serve that need but we do multiple other things whether it's classes that we offer free with the school district just at the heart foundation looking at employee benefits which we don't make the car individually on that but we try to search every possible outlet for our staff and our employees on her benefits page if there's a a company that gives a good mortgage rate than we try to put them and connection word having to do things as educators we've never done before and so we're trying to constantly build that wealth of benefits first staff and other districts across the state or doing that as well i've had a couple of superintendents recharge about this and they say we don't have an accelerate foundation no but what and foundation does sir many different districts throughout this state and so there are other it to tears that can assist with this project I believe the last question in as far as who is going to get under hammer I got a full board that you back in thank you representative duke you recognized thank you mister chair i'm thinking of making the trip up for northwest arkansas appreciate having you guys here I have a list of questions all jump back in the queue cause I have several colleagues who aren't here who have asked me to ask some questions for them as well I think I have a unique perspective one being I represent part of your school district and I served on a school board adjacent to your district so I understand the new unique right nominative for northwest arkansas but in county so I have seen the changes and I think there are some pieces that are bored there are committee needs to understand or know that I think will be helpful because if you're not up in northwest arkansas you haven't been to bendiville you don't necessarily know we're better the high is and it is in the heart of bin bill and it is in that property is prime property right and having served on a school board before I came here in that part the state I know when I rep. Problems is land is a big problem and having that land were fortunate to have a superintendent who's forward thinking coming from a larger school district you need to get some land we need to be looking for a land now because the growth is coming to that other district and as it is in all northwest arkansas and finding a place to build a school is problematic once developers have already come in and they bought that lane which is what happens has happened I am sure to better multiple times and I know the conversations have taken place i'm sorry i'm taking a lot of i'll bring it back I know conversations have taken place at school districts trying to find the lane and all those this is a small piece of land but it is addressing to your high school and once that land goes you're not ever getting it back and it's not ever going to be the same and in my experience we had that on our school district before I was on the board that they sold they sold the piece of land that was prime land in the middle of our commuting near our school in a flood lane to and but it got utilized the other group was somehow managed I believe it so my concern my first question I guess is is this a done deal have you already given the land away cause that's one of my biggest concerns is this is taxpayer hard earn money. That they pay every october to the school district and that land is is not being sold because that was one thing that we thought well you can it's an investment in northwest arkansas having land as a school district if you don't end up building it is an investment but you're not selling it you're giving it away is my understanding and that's. You know are the better for people and you're never going to be able to replace that and my second question is I understand the competitiveness because we've competed with you guys for a year's for teachers right we still do we've lost many right the venture picked from our district as the sale is higher so how many teachers I got three that teach in northwest arkansas how many teachers have you was specifically because they couldn't get a house and you're talking forty units are even filled and what are you going to do and you can't fill those forty units because a lot of teachers want to pick where they live in a lot of one driving so I know that several questions and those are just mine i'll jump right back in the case I know you got a light so a couple questions one thanks for having me appreciate questions that the land I think the district and cricket wrong has about two hundred acres of land we have eighty acres continuous sakers in the south we have over a hundred acres in the north and then we have forty plus acres out by our new grimly junior high so as the border evaluated does this five makers is it going to have an impact from a facility construction standpoint our first was like we didn't know we didn't think that we could put a school on there I don't think we can build storage it wouldn't be highest and best uses as far as the land goes it is in the heart of bit the long manager for our best bit in county and so I get to look at several transactions for land acquisition multi family purchases this is not on a major thoroughfare it is not sit on j street it actually sits back behind a single family residents and it sits off of j street doesn't sit on fourteenth street which is a major there affair and so II don't think the highest invest would be really to sell it in to see a multi family unit that we had literally no control over to be developed in our backyard so that's the delay in question and II guess how many teachers doctor jones reference I think four teachers is how many contracts are pulled out because they could make the real estate move work my concern is the new teacher's coming to our district it takes there is a recent article about axio. About the bindle schools district was highlighted in for this program that outlined the takes teachers three times as long as save up for a down payment and when you're dealing with average home prices of four hundred and fifty thousand dollars you have to have a combined home income greater than ninety thousand dollars we gave a six percent pay increase in the last year which was about ten million dollars to our budget and so we were asked as the school board why don't you just pay your teachers more well we could do that but I think there would be a bigger burden on the taxpayer in the long run and two a lot of our teachers are in the same boat that I am someone that lives in between bill and has lived in better bill for the last I guess since two thousand seven as I bought my house before this happened so i'm sitting in a great equity position in the water our teachers are going to look at that and be very happy when they retire and they can sell her home but the new teachers were hiring or having to come in and acquire home and they can't find it because there's not homes ready to be sold and can't find multi family units to rent because there's less than three percent vacancy that's not healthy for a multi family market and so the ability to have a teacher to come in and have a equity share program and immediately began without a down payment without the excess cost of PM I to be in saving for their first home purchase and in five years be able to walk away with fifty thousand dollars for down payment the value in this property is there if you run the economics over thirty five years that's six million dollars this piece of property is not worth six million dollars but we're going to generate that through and give that to our teachers and give them the opportunity to bother the first time so that's that's where I got to his one board member I think others shared that opinion as well so hopefully the answer questions. Start I guess i'll start with the one that just cropped up is it six acres of five acres I heard their kelly is at nine acres i've heard other reports it's six usable acres six usable accounts in I don't know if I heard the question answered was has this are you transacted as the land titled switched it has not the board has agreed to enter into an agreement and were hammering out details with an agreement okay so it's not a done deal yet now. All right and it is contention on like I was reading through all the air the power point that you had here the timeline and everything is a contingent on going through planning and zoning and all that kind of stuff for this actually to take place. Yes okay so. I guess. In and out i've gotten categories of different questions here for accelerate for the school district for a ag's officer and all that but. Guess to. Yeah. Did you consider selling the land so we don't have this question of donate I mean I like the overall project as far as what accelerates doing in the idea in the concept low income housing and and the benefit to it to folks in an is a private entity. That's great but as a tax paying. Millions rate paying citizen of the bent mill school district. I'm very frustrated by this and I and II sure that I was opposed to the donation out of the district sold it the land that would be a completely different story and I don't even know what the fair market value say it's not six million dollars but what was it appraised for what does it appraise one point three to one point eight that's that's the range they praisely got okay so. Did you consider selling it now that one point eight would not contribute towards and it. Attainable housing for staff we couldn't achieve it with that amount. And so are now and we're we don't want to sell off that piece of the high school property for any other purpose. The. Think goes to the lack of control as well and back to the one point eighty the problem we have is attainable housing for our teachers and that one point eight I got her jones said wouldn't solve that problem and the economic benefit of this program is for an excess of that one point eight can you not sell the property to accelerate though. Did then the economics of the project won't work and I won't speak for jeff but if you have a land cost in your cost that drives up the rents on your units and so the thousand dollars that someone would pay for a cottage versus paying market rants you won't be able to do that because you have cost of land anyway overall project well I mean they're there it seems like there's a lot of other federal. Funds that are coming into this with add for funds in all that so I mean there's other low income housing programs design specifically for that that are not the school district donating land which and just add to that remember especially for those forty cottages there is no federal dollars coming as soon as photo dollars come in then we can't do what we're out to do to help the score. You can't restrict it then for the score. So that's why you don't want to bring the federal dollars and on that point so and I guess an. I've read through the statute and this I was going to wait for the ag's office to to do this but marshall you had mentioned. Six twenty one eight fifteen the. Right of access to an used under utilized public facility school facilities. And I was following use went through that I kind of disagree with what they're not see one and see two or separate in in regards to other real proper being identified. When was this determined as it was unuser unutualized. Facility. To wear it it means have all the public charters refused to their public ratify free refusal for this property. Before you started down this path. But he was not offered and I don't know it's never been deemed under that statute to be unused or underutilized. And and again. You know that the mandatory language in the statute is he want that's the place where it says you shall do abc. And in that it it conspicuously omits the words real property. Although under c two it says once a public schools facility are the real property is identified by the district as unused or under utilized. The public school charter may give notice of its internet in reading those together can in in my opinion only leave the one conclusion that it's permissive as to real property. So have any charters. Said hey we are interested in this property no. The. Still not entirely sure you get how you get around that statute but reading through the ag's opinion you said you asked that question but I didn't see it an identified is add out to excuse me II engaged with the department of ad on that question not the attorney general because ultimately it makes a department of ad list and the question is with the department of their designate the real property as as unused or under utilized for purposes of offering it to charters and i'll let them speak for themselves but there's an email that I believe is been circulated. Not one of the formal exhibits that haven't seen that yep sent her dogs and can I have you get back to you back in thank you great thank you very much brian. Thank you thank you mister. I just keep adding questions a list i'll just stir. I go to the wannah initially wrote down is and it may be for attorney general but maybe for mr night how does one donate property yet still maintain some controller level of controller access to it is in my opinion once once they let go with that i'm in contractually sure they could say that but then there they're not really meaning that burden of donating that property if they still have control over who does and doesn't go there well again you can do it through deed restrictions you can do it through a contract you're selecting what the purpose of it is your your you're choosing the use that I now understand I understand that but if if if the district is saying I have no need for this property. But my need is affordable housing from my teachers so when I donate it to you and have control does that how does that break the connection between I don't need the property. Where the question really is what is the highest investigation for the property and what uses can be made of six acres on a high school campus that aren't big enough to build really another facility and so you know one one point it was brighter or sell it were if you just sell it to unrelated third party with with no plan for the use is that really what what you want on your high school campus and here you have an identifiable need which is the attainable housing and so by by donating it for this purpose. The district is receiving a benefit and again you know this isn't something that hasn't been considered by the arkansas general assembly the arkansas general assembly has determined that it is a a proper public purpose it is the public policy of the state of arkansas that under the circumstances a district could donate the lane. So I guess it goes back to my original comment what this body needs the determine is is affordable housing. Synonymous with educational benefit. Well the the actual language is. Yeah wet whether it would survey beneficial education service for the citizens of the school district to beneficial education beneficial educational service educational benefit in the benefit as as doctor jones is his shared is. You know being able to provide attainable housing for new employees coming into the district and and can I just just say as an aside you know using district property i've seen it across the state using district property for a purpose that's been official for the district when the when the property is not in the immediate plan for uses there is some precedent for that and and I can talk back when I served on the bid in bills I served on the bintonville school district between two thousand and three in two thousand eleven can I remember when I was on the district the district had a need for a competitive tennis facility they had a a leading state contender for the state title in tennis and had no word to play and I remember going to launch with one of the city council members in bent and bill and having a discussion about how can we solve through this in the ultimate decision was we would solve for it by by finding land around the district that the city could benefit from. And in donating that land uh to the city and exchange the city went out and built up I can't remember if it's a twelve court competitive facility or ten court competitive facility at memorial park and it was the home of the tigers and it was it was trade dressed out to be home with the tide triggers and it was the the home competitive tennis facility for the better bill school district are all for donating some land and then they got a hundred year lease with first priority use and at no cost to the taxpayers it brought tremendous benefit to the district without spending a die in that's the kind of scenario that the district is an every endeavouring to accomplish here. Okay so you don't go and have a follow up with your good so so if if an example that I thought of it if if the teachers came and said food prices are just way too high and have food and security. Could the school district tenders say food and security is now educational nexus and donate that land to a food pantry to build a food bank. Okay at what point do we do we say education is education housing his housing food is food and all these little of our truistic but goals that we have. Where I got my answer to that and II don't know that I need to be the district spokesperson on this but my answer to that is is that there's been three years of time invested in the question that's in front of this party today in I don't know how to answer you know the the hypotheticals about what about this what about there without investing the time that that this table is invested in the last three years just determining that determining that this is a need there can be accomplished at a very low cost to the district in its taxpayers the big difference between housing and food and security as food and securities being addressed are a problem with affordable housing is not being addressed. Cause our teachers can't find housing they can find food and in there's plenty of groups out there that have the food pantry there's not attainable housing in bitten bill for our districts employees. Sender davis. Thank you mr chair I guess a have a few questions but I think i'll just limit to to you if you are good with that thank you so in understanding that there's going to be forty cottages that i'll be specific to staff and then the rest will be heard housing I guess my question is that if the need is so great then why is so little of the project actually going towards housing for staff I mean the majority of this project is had housing in that I don't think you will have any control over being able to prioritise who gets it as much as you may like to make your staff in the people you hire aware but you'll have no control over that application process and who they actually give that those housing you know the housing to you so my first question is if the need to segret then why is so little the project going towards housing for staff I can speak to that two reasons number one we can't use any grant funding to pay for that that is all donation to the foundation and number two the district does not investing tax per money into this because we have that budgeted for a new school buildings. Okay. Erm and then my next question is will students be utilizing anything in this housing space I saw that there was like tutoring in we have within this design a community building and one of the challenges that were trying to face is to give students opportunity to aren't their community service credit and so that community space quote how's things like how to learn to say for your first time but also could house tutoring services giving our kids the opportunity are not construction program as soon as we start a discussing there's the teacher reached out to get the construction kids involved in this project and so they obviously would be involved in this project as well but ideally yes there's a type connection between serving their families in that district and providing students opportunities to earn their community service credit and you're looking through like the security and safety of students if they're going to be off site. But tied to the district in some way right and what the community service brilliant were putting them off site after school hours anyway and parents understand it is there a responsibility to make sure that who we give as opportunities for internship they have the ultimate authority to approve that community service experience mr chair. The. Thank you senator representative wing. Thank you mister chair over here just a couple of questions one is I will join senator dots and with a preask of the question I don't know that I agree with the assessment on this are with regards to six twenty one eight fifteen and so for our attorney generals coming up but from their office i'd appreciate them. I come in on that what one remaining question enough forgive me if it has been asked we've had some conversation over here on the side of the room but with regards to the sixty units that would be part of the federal. Side once you seed control of that to outside hands and federal laws in and rules and regulations apply would you have any control or at least discuss what control you would have as to the potential types of renters that might come in such as sex offenders being so close to a school. I can speak to that because we worked carefully on the criteria the entry criteria sex offenders can't be within two thousand feed of the school anyway so that's prohibitive but there are so many other conditions of entry into the units windsor security card proof of that for all individuals within the apartments a really long credit check with a number of credit restrictions with them that attaining renewal today I don't know if any of your children have gone through this process recently it's not easy to get rental without having a full background check and so all of those conditions are with the end the criteria the entry criteria for the apartments in the the houses as well. And for all occupants of that apartment not just the person whose name is on the dotted line that is correct there are exempt for an are you talking about social security any anything that would be otherwise prohibited that you know you can't be within certain distance of a school of for instance as a sacked offender but even if it was somebody who was not on the data line but was still living in that apartment yes that restriction the sex have understatus but also the other restrictions on so security requirements there are only two exemptions and one was like a baby who hadn't had an opportunity to get so it's very specific for the entry criteria for those for the units. Okay thank you members I had received a message where under a little bit of a time constraint for the attorney general solve a snow present very much ryan being here does anyone have a specific question for ryan with the attorney general's office. Reps and windows hammer does. Okay dartson does. If I could have ryan come up and if one of you would just you don't want to leave just one of you would free up a chair there have him come up I wanna address these questions then we'll get back to you. You'd identify yourself for the record and then. Will start with senator hammer thank you mister chair members of the committee rhinously depending attorney general opinions and for your division. So thank you miss church my experience encryptment from wrong that when you are presented with an ag opinion that you limit yourself to answer just that one question alone or that particular question without stepping outside the realm of there. Do you feel that in a few able answers do you feel that with regards to this use you all the questions that need to be answered in order to give you a for response were asked. Thank you for the question so it's true when we receive questions from legislators or other state officials we stick to the question that was asked we will we also address other sort of questions that are necessary to answer that question that was asked sometimes people don't always know just the right questions to ask but it when we can be clear about what it is that they're trying to ask we'll address those other questions as well I think the key question here for purposes are of our conversation today has to do with a different issue in the way we at the edgy's office handle opinion requests and that has to do with the distinctions between fax and wall when the ages office and the opinions division. We're not equipped to be fact finders we don't have the resources for that in order we have the authority to suppean information and things like that and so that's why in our opinions we will usually say as we said in the in the opinion that's in your packet today that the eighties office not a fact finder and what we'll do is we'll take the facts as they're presented to us and then we will do our very best to identify what the lawyers and say to the extent we can with those facts given that law what the conclusion is from the fact that the law together. Are defensive. Members are just make you aware is is we still have somewhat of a four board when I address the questions with the attorney general's office will come back to the school district but we also want to make a recognition we have three who have travelled in a signed up to day that they would like to speak on behalf of this discussion and I want to make sure to give them apple time as well so i'm gonna put a hard stop at eleven forty five so keep here if you could keep your questions concise in make sure that we have enough time for everyone to speak and make their discussions representative date was your question for the hero's office representative dots in europe thank mister chair ryan got just a couple of this is largely referring to the section six twenty one eight fifteen with regards to the charter schools and the unused or underutilized property which I don't think you're a your age's opinion didn't reference at all within a as far as I can tell. I guess under this. And. Kit kim. It is it possible that there might be some sort of a a lawsuit or a challenge to this because they didn't offer this unuser under utilized property. That's that's one side of it and in the other side I think there's a potential constitutional issue. Where funds might have been. The. Collected for one purpose and intended use and then think it's called illegal exaction maybe challenge to the use of this. Property being disposed of in this way did you could you address those two things and then and then thirdly at the end of that statute under six twenty one eight fifteen it says under section f that basically the school or the division of education could classified district at that fails to comply with the section is being in academic facilities as a stress and is it possible that later on even if the the department's education is saying right now that there not going to do that they could do that later on if they change your mind. Thank you for the questions so we'll take him in order their six twenty one one eight one five it's true the opinion doesn't address that we weren't asked that question are reading their the request as we received it was whether the district has had the authority. To engage in that land donation the question about how they execute that authority is downstream of that and that would definitely implicate six twenty one eight one five and by implicate what I mean is you have to check those boxes so the opinion itself doesn't get into eight one five we weren't asked that question and are you in the reason we can get into that is because you wouldn't get into it one five unless you had intercedently determined that you could donate the property for these purposes and so we took that to be the question harassed and we and we addressed that they're definitely would be an eight one five question i'm not authorized today to to speak on that we have an internal process no one is assessed that question we'd be happy to look into that if somebody wanted to ask us that question my understanding i'm asking. II hear you but we have we have a process and in our internal processes once you received a request we we drafted up and we have five levels of review and it goes up to the attorney general who issues the opinion so i'm not authorized today to give an opinion on eight one five but I do understand eight one five have two essential elements for purposes of the conversation today the first thing is the property has to be a facility and there's gonna be a question about the meaning of that term mister night spoke about that earlier and then they if it is a facility than the question the next questions can be whether it's under you lies or underused if so they would have to report that to the district and never be I mean to the department and there would have to be some other administrative activities going on there but again we weren't asked that question in that's downstream the the question that was addressed in the opinion. The other issue raises a constitutional issue that issue is addressed in the opinion there is a constitutional concern when it when you're dealing with public property or public funds and specifically school funds and so the opinion does go into that and does say basically an order for the money are the the property in this case to be donated you have to have a public purpose behind that and more specifically since we're dealing with school property the property has to have some benefit to students not just citizens and so the opinion goes into that and based on the facts that they were represented to us we thought that both of those two elements we've met in that case and if we're right about that and ultimately a court is going to be the one to make that determination if we're right about that then there would not be an illegal exaction in that case. Yeah thank you. Oh and then the if the department determines that. Eight one five was not fulfilled or that it needed to be through that process could they later on determine that that they're their academic facilities distress the the school district might have again facilities just dress. If eight one five applies at eight one five it's not complied with and they they're supposed to comply with it there's definitely going to be an issue on that down the road and that's ultimately going to be for a court to decide. Yeah yes when the district I mean with the department of education be the one that classifies that as it didn't comply with a question for the department i'm not okay thank you supposed to work there. Representative wing. Senator dots and last my question so I will pull out of the queue sir. Sitter to brian thank you mister chair reading from the opinion and because the proposal includes a plan for a community center that will provide classes about the citizens and students of the district it appears that sucker requirement is met as well. So if that was not the case. And there was notes no communities center. With this pass at the test can you tell me where you reading from bottom of page two into the top of page three. So I understand your question to be whether if that fact is not actually a fact. Whether our opinion be different. Yes. Yeah. So I guess my forward question of that is because this community center is just. Perfunctory in the scope of the project. Is is not that the router the project to the primary use of the project should not not be the vocal point of of what the statute and the when the constitution relate they my opinion intends to address can you refrain to i'm not falling over six across the majority use of this as a portable housing tick half an acre and put in a community center that students can use as that now it profunctory to scope with the whole project. As is a law not clear that that the primary use of the project should be for educational benefit because obviously your opinion II believe says the the educational use of satisfy by a community center serving students and so. At this level they could use it that majority last year that acreates for whatever they wanted to as long as that community center to validate the donation. Yeah that's going to be ultimately a fact question about how the remaining property is used in the degree to which that use contributes to this educational purpose and as we sit here today i'm not sure it's it's possible my friends here would no more information about that but from a legal perspective I don't think we know what how that's going to be used at this stage and so how that ultimately bears out in terms of the facts is birth of course going to bear out on that legal question about whether it really is being used for educational purposes both for citizens and students okay thank you chat if I may answer common on that I know from our standpoint from the foundation and I can let doctor jones speak as well I don't see that as per functory at all there's and you'll see in the powerpoint multiple things that are planned for that facility a big one not to go through all them due to time is for example that the whole financial piece of this thing mean from our standpoint this is not about building a building this is about how do we help people move forward in their careers in their life successfully that's who we are as a foundation so when we we talk about helping people prepare for a home ownership and be enabled to do things like check in on where they on the credit scores how are they tracking on these things making sure that not only can they move from the rental into the shared equity but when they go from shared equity me worse setting up up in such a great way where they can go on to what we call their forever home that is super important on it as just as one dimension that is helping the people that live there and there's the other points that doctor jones has talked about as far as tutoring and other programs that will be offered there that is the core of what we as a foundation do we build communities not buildings. Representatives makes your question for mr. You're recognized that he was chairman and just on the offset if we had to vote to approve this I would be a hard know on this III just don't think it is the school's responsibility to providing housing for for out their employees I mean I have to commute I know a lot of people from my area commute an hour back and forth a little rock every every day but to get to my question to the ages office earlier one of the questions I asked was in regards to potential liability they seem to indicate that the school had immunity from any liability what is your thought or opinion on that could the school be held liable what degree of liability could the school have for any incidents that were to occur within these housing units. Yeah I think the question of liability turns mostly and ownership is miseries spoke about earlier and so to degree that there's ownership then there's going to be a liability question how they structure that deal is outside the context of this opinion but how they structure that in terms of the ownership would drive the question of liability so theoretically there could be some liability to pay on how that was structured. Their liability depends on the ownership and so depending on how the ownership works that would also relate to the to the liability right thank you. Represent value is your question for the attorney journal's office okay you're still in. Sender hammer did you have another one for the attorney general's office alright mister thank you very much for being here today in for the inside that you provided thank you mister chair members of the committee. Alright. We will go back to. Representative. Thank you mister chair I want to follow back up on the questions I asked earlier because i'm not sure going to answer to all of them and then. I'm gonna may list at the others. So hopefully get through quickly number one I got sure that I got the. Information on how many teachers you've lost and I guess to go along with that or you do you have data on how many teachers am I go through the questions and then maybe come back you can come back and get him how many did you should lost for other reasons I mean people lose leave a variety of reasons or ask to be other contracts or don't take the offer for a writing different reasons are you tracking that as well as or just the housing piece of it that you were tracking the second question is and you all receive the facility funding there's been middle school districts received facility funding my third question is what happens i've heard it referred to teachers and i've heard her heard to a stap is this for teachers or is this for staff and if you can't fill the forty units with staff or teachers I mean I think that the primary thing was teachers without help or teachers what happens those for units. Yeah. Then the other thing that's kind of goes with robert or ups and advice said it was mentioned here this has been a three year investment by the people at this table and sent me that conversation started in twenty twenty will you have any town halls. And my concern is how. I know there's a layer of people that know but most people are going about their lives and they're not reading the sculptor minutes they're not watching the things online are not coming to school for meetings I person believe you if you do something to speak you better be very proactive with it within your community so I have some concerns about how well your community. As a whole is. And it concerns me that if that conversation has been going on for three years my temperature that i've got in northwest arkansas a lot of people are not the everyday person is is not better part of this process. And also another thing that kind of kept my cut cotton me when you were talking and was about well we're going to tell the teachers about this. The part of this housing and we other ways that you help teachers pointing them to different linders and different things that kind of cut my attention a little bit because I don't know that I think the school should be pointing people into this issue you should use for lender this is where you should go for housing this is where you should rant I mean if i'm a competitor down there. That's gonna make any kind of cranky cause i'd like them in competition with the school and you all have direct access to who's you know being hired much more quickly or whoever you might be partnering with. That mean my experience i'm a realtor we had other realtors on our board when we didn't touch that with the tenth at pole rate because you just didn't you don't want that to look so but I have some concerns about that if you give me some clarity and if there are any potential conflicts of interest here with board members. Or people within your district that work in these different realms are connected to these different entities and some different way cause that that statement there caused me a little bit of pies and what is your wrong gonna be when your teachers come in are you going to be okay well this is. This is where you should go there's forty units here this is where you should go so that was a lot of questions obviously mister chair they can whatever you want to do with them I appreciate your replacement okay let me address these thank you teacher a loss we cannot put a figure on the number of teachers that don't come to bit and don't because they know they can't afford that so as far as data we do have exit conference we do ask teachers and they leave for a write of reasons I can say that. We are facing a market where younger teachers especially can work from home and they're looking for those opportunities the more we can do to try to keep staff in your district for example there are less living in housing unit and this is all staff it's not just cheap teachers that you're bust drivers some of the services that we have to cancel when we cancel routes we can't provide it's because we don't have the staff to be able to do it and that's the reality of running all of our districts right now and so we are searching for every opportunity to get and keep our staff so teacher last year I have numbered no but it has much about attracting new people to the district is anything up on that if if you would let's let her answer facility be very tight with our questions please i'm sorry with the facility bunding we have received those in the past ad due to the new facility formula where we use the socio economic status of the district that has decreased a great deal and so it's very limited in the funds that we receive and teacher and staff the forty units that applies to us staff. And the apartments are stationed via teachers aids are bush drivers will be eligible to apply for the lie tech apartments as well so we will communicate that widely and dan communication. There's issue and we've tracked it has been communicated to the public twenty times at least twenty times and I stopped counting three weeks ago. And said this it's taken a variety of methods from new stories multiple board meetings work shops emails from me to all and staff members to all community members with the are families with in our school district and so we have and that's published on our website and then the last thing all the benefits package were not directly dilling with our staff when we set when we tried to am share community a discounts whatever it is when the business shares were offering this for teachers only we put it up on our benefits page and then our staff can take advantage of that or not take advantage of that so I hope that answers your questions and so II will address you said conflict of interest and there's been twice as brought up to the board in the board has that on their shoulders to identify if each individual member has a conflict i'm not aware of any real estate developers real estate professionals on the board there are two bankers i'm one of them **** calger abstained I did not voted for this project there is no conflict with me personally me and my role or best been county in this project because there's no financing of this project being done by our best wine the projects night complete when we there's no deal struck for us to go out and lend money against it and in addition to that we've communicated that up to our leadership that we won't be a part of this project is to make sure there wasn't the card float from a monetary standpoint so that's a great question but it is ultimately on each individual board member to ensure that they're not providing a conflict and then in my experience being on the board since november of nineteen I would say the bitten bill school district community is very engaged i've i've received thousands of emails when parents weren't happy with something whether that'd be from transportation or policy that was being implemented during the pandemic and so they they do have every opportunity to communicate us the board was very diligent and reaching out to their networks as well I spoke to several people I specifically remember talking to several that are. At one justice of the piece and two board members had already reached out of downside I think a lot of diligence was done here a duties and stuff done here by the board and with our engaged community II think a lot of communication in the communication points with the families of the district and the constituents of the district there's a lot of people I do know about this project. Mr wednesday mr crosson are without it this time would you mind yielding your seats I want to call the department I believe is to roads is here. And roger someone with you from facilities. You could have them come up as well. Send a bright thing in this chair of this despite more for facilities. So that this particular property was was ultimate curtailage on the main property of the school they had fifty four continuous titiguous acres as one parcel. Forty five over deployed in the use nine bakers set aside because of a barrier of a of a flight plane. Since it wasn't quantified as unused property because it was existing property of a used facility how does the department handle that when when a school district goes out and buys a hundred acres combines it builds thirty thirty evidence school twenty of it but ball and then the remaining partners sits there but nobody knows about it because it's part of that master plan that makes sense. I goes back since in question like the the reason it was an identified as an unused available properties because it was part of a used unavailable property but now now as of you know earlier twenty twenty three through the corresponds I received the districts just said oh by the way we got this property that we want to build arm but we haven't chose to build on it so we'll just use that that would. Regarding facilities. This. So I guess the the question will be is real property attached to facilities as curtailed as that apply to the scenario. If I deliver identified so now that it's identified because we were talking now about this now actual property future property that'll be broken parts by survey and placed in the hands of another is does that window not now now applicable that is now broken part in identifiable. No sir. I guess that that's the workaround first for school court. Is the buy large pieces of property build on it and then don't identify it or break it apart to point to it to say now we've got an asset you're it's too seek out donation candidates and then donate to want one example of advance property would be a form that score matt used for their agraprogram offsite that we wouldn't be aware of until an inspection it wouldn't appear on their statement of values but what's identified that piece of property would be included on that list. So they're not the same as once identified once once a survey is done and it's and it's a broker part from the the main campus is a now identifiable and therefore must be put in the rotation for underused property not in that particular scenario now okay thank you center hands your question from salis. The cake will be back to you represent a mac near your question for facilities centre data. Thank you mister chair so who who does the identifying on that is it the school district or is the department the school district within the master planning to then wanna make a change of the building utilization then they indicate a change and then that's when we start our process internally putting up putting it on the list and then and if you're in here a little earlier when I was talking to the office about that last section of the the. The statue in trying to pull it up here go quick. Where it says the division make classify under the code. So would that not be you. Classifying back the school district. If you'd make a determined later on determination later on that it wasn't in compliance. Made class about a white so that more time. So it says under the statute that the division may class five school district that fails to comply with this section as being an academic facilities distress. The section referencing in whether or not the right of access to and user under utilized public school facilities so the overall statute there if the district determines I mean it not the district but if the department says hey the district didn't properly follow law in. And. No classify this as as unuser under utilized after the fact if you come back and say he the department of the school district didn't do it correctly. The division being the department of education could come back in and say. This was not. Done properly according to the statute in place them and academic facilities just stress that may begin that process of classifying in in facility distress but it's a bit along minister process internally for that happen but that would be the department of education making that classification at that point yes sir okay thank you. Gentleman no other questions for you thank you very much for coming over for being here whether today. I would call to the table leonight and want to get the public community. This night if you like to come to table. Yeah. You'll identify yourself for the record and then get a statement you'd like to make these do so hi my name is layer night it's my first time here so it's kind of exciting erm I live in bittenville I pay taxes and the former teacher in both public and private schools and the mom with the student and bit involved public schools and i'm very involved I tend to almost every school board meeting i'm going to make an observation and then i'm gonna throw out a couple of red flags that I see when observation is the school administration often start or buy into these huge projects planned them out kind of behind the scenes and then present them to the school board at a ten thousand fit view and then the school board mostly made up i've just said is ends they all have full time jobs super busy they're not giving the tools are not given the other side they're not given the tools to really see the other side and the they're not able to talk to each other so they're only access to questions or two people who have already bought into this project that's what I feel like happens a light on the school board and I feel like that happened in this situation now a couple red flags one is so many of our tax dollars are pouring into affordable housing projects in bentin county alone and author accelerate they're getting tax dollars from federal state county two point four million dollars a loan from our county by the way and city council bittenville public schools all forms of government all forms were paying taxes for these things so that's a concern of mine another red flag is one of my concerns is it's extremely hard to follow this money which tricky about foundations is the often have a four profit and not for a profit in llc arms of the business making it almost impossible to follow the money. They're very adapt at getting donations and taxpayer money on one side and then spending and investing it on the other side in an accelerate case the end they also have an arm called hark. Um it's been mentioned several times here they are the foremost leader and of jay numbers and still statistics in all things low income reformable housing in in way the problem is is that hark is an arm of accelerate so they are quoting themselves when they give all these dad at the start in statistics so I want you to keep that in mind the last red flag is the arguments all constitution article fourteen this is kind of an address but. Education sections in three states that mills levied on property taxes are to be used solely for maintenance and operation of schools know where does it state that they must provide housing to teachers and others in the community only forty percent of the proposed plan would house teachers but the other sixty would go to the community so in short I just want to say bitten bill school administration and school board really has no business donating tax parallels or getting into the housing business i'm seeing this as a taxpayer thank you thank you for your comments for it is better day and being part the discussion anyone every specific questions for. See none. Galpian auto. You'll identify yourself for the record who you represent and you may begin the presentation my name's klpnr two and i'm a citizen of belavista i'm in the bit invilled school district and I pay taxes in the bitterness of school district. In twenty eighteen bent bill school district bid a hundred and ninety eight million worth of refunding and construction bonds will are just bond issue by an arkansas school district. Their current bond debt found on the arkansas department of education website is approximately three hundred and twenty eight million dollars and yet they're giving away nine acres of land they actually did not get an appraisal. What they got was in estimate of fair market value based on can't but refuse to get an appraisal. The property education tax burden as a retired home owner is overwhelming bent and county residents pay some of the highest property taxes in the state. I think that are superintendent and school board has totally lost touch with their constituents if they feel that it is appropriate use of our hard earned resources to give away property ie education tax dollars to a nine profit with millions of dollars and assets. I'm very thankful to our governor serious sanders and our legislature for passion will learn act i'm excited that it's opening up unlimited educational opportunities for students and promise to make a huge impact on the quality of education and bent into school district and the status of hole I would strongly question the wisdom of giving away district assets and light of the current financial and certain seas inherent in implementing learns as well as the uncertainties in our current economy. This. The better bill school board anticipates asking voters for a military increase in twenty twenty seven according to their ten year plan to build a third high school a fifth junior high and a fifteenth entry score doctor jones in the board have stated that they have no plans to use the nine plus across adjacent to better or high school that they want to give away it seems to me that such a determination is extremely premature in later the possibility for six significant changes in enrollment numbers that may be seen as we enter the third year of the learn sat. The learnt act holds much promise to raise the educational bar. And challenge the benville school district with graduating a higher percentage of seniors who can test a great level in mouth and reading I know i'm not alone in thinking of the destrict should focus on the increasing their educational expertise to meet this challenge instead of becoming in tangled in a totally unrelated business venture such as the housing development. Thank you spam thank you for your comments in questions for the scale. Saying no thank you for being here today and will go to terry smith so last person signed up to speak. The. Public community. He'll identify yourself in may begin your presentation read there you go. Yes ma'am good morning i'm carry parents smith i'm serving my third term in benting county as a justice of the piece. About forty two hundred of my voters live in the bentinful score district my district also includes millions of dollars of commercial property involves been extensively marketed in expensive areas around the country to encourage wealthy successful and upwardly mobile people to make bent and fell home and purchase investment property there. With three fortune five hundred companies in the area in major commercial investment to support companies that operate in bent and bill property values experience massive escalation recently the bentonville school tax millage is forty eight miles the highest in bent and county multiply that times exploding property values and you can see that bent involve school district has funding others districts only dream of. Incidentally eighty one percent of the property taxes my voters pay go to the bentless school district this is crushing all or working class citizens as they struggle to raise their families in a crumbling economy last week I heard from a reality who is helping a bentonville teacher find a home she remembered hearing about a program to help teachers by houses I explained what she recalled was not constructed yet it also would never help a teacher like her client it would only help a small fraction of teachers and school district employees. Just this weekend I spoke with a retired teacher who spent the first half of our career in the busy dallas fort worth metroplex before moving to rogers she was concerned bent bill school the street gave away prime property that could be utilised for future programs at the very least this property service is an outdoor learning and recreation space for teachers and students she witnessed schools in her fast growing texas community not acquiring enough land for future needs when they realize they needed more. Land was no longer available. Bent involved has a strong growth trajectory in our schools or cutting edge as education of all surely more educational space will be needed I question why better inville school district would donate nine acres of land the only land between thought high school has left to build on when a future need arises similar land will cost ten times what they paid for it this is poor fiscal stewardship of taxpayer property. Most concerning is it's entire process by past the normal municipal planning process a project like this normally goes before the planning commission with the public notice properly communicated to the neighboring area around benville high school these surrounding neighborhoods endure tremendous traffic already in normal circumstances of planning commission would not allow this much more burden on these heavily traveling travel neighborhood roads and if they did a city council would vote the project down due to public outgrowing. My recommendation is that this type of land deals should always go before a planning commission city council before completion of any transaction I also recommend and II can't believe I even have to suggest this that we don't give her a land away put land you don't need up for a for sale and let the free market work. The free market will always do a better job of solving a problem than a public private partnership and to turn that revenue from property sale into an instead of bonus program that serves all school district employees equally. Bentenville is not on a desert island and if you're curious I brought a few prices of available apartments in the area within three miles. And presumably questions representative duker question is for mismiss. You're recognized. Here you go thank you mister chair kind of a general thing I just I want to say i'm over here thinking sorry I heard to see over the chairs I could I just didn't want to I want to take the moment just to say thank you I know it's hard to come and speak as citizens before. It boards on a new level and so i'm just thank you guys and wouldn't you agree that you need to be very careful going back to northwest arkansas olive you all today I understand there's significant weather but I didn't appreciate you all and the rest the folks were northless arkansas that came up to speak before yesterday. Thank you soon to bring your question from his smith. The. I'll just i'll take advantage of your of your last statement as far as what the with the rental market revealed if hours to search for a property today yes yesterday I searched the apartments that most of her within three miles I live in rogers just over the city boundary and it is two miles away and we have a brand new apartment complex that that is actually quite premium going up that will be opening within the middle of the month so but there were a number of other apartments that were available within three miles. Lindsey properties which is long been a very affordable place to live are mostly fall with long term rentals there are companies that read spaces there and so it's not necessarily full of tenants that live there on a daily basis they may come interest to work at their offices but what I found it of places that had availability was we had many options that were under eleven hundred dollars within three miles. And that falls if if my mouth has correct that falls under the twelve hundred dollars toll home fifty dollars thirty percent threshold of a starting teacher. Of fifty thousand dollars under the learns act in my correct or not. Um so that those those are awful within that threshold and these are really nice there's a few that are a little farther out there is one there is five point one miles away for six six hundred and ten a month but the the newer ones are much nicer much more opulated granted counter tops pet parks all the amenities and you do you have a number of availability not immunities okay I have a list of. Apartments with one bedroom apartments available to fifteen units yes and actually each one of those have there is all the one of them that only have one some of them are rather new. Yesterday. No other questions from this man thank you for being here today please be careful to you that are driving back to northwest arkansas thank you we have two others in the you have senator hammer we have representative mcnayer. And we now we have three center data. I will go to senator hammer the questions for the school district. Thank you miss chair thank you again for being here today I was just curious a lot of this has been built around the concept that for five years the occupants are going to be able to save money in order to be able to put toward down payment that email misunderstanding that and the shared equity colleges yes okay how are you going to enforce. Requiring people to participate that so that the objective that you are here presenting is going to be achieved to mean some I could leave it two years three years what's the mechanisms that you're actually on use to force people or make sure that people are actually saving toward that goal we can't force that but we will offer classes through the community center about saving towards the next town but we can't force that other than setting the deed restrictions the requirements for entry into the house and offering support that has to be an individual decision. I want to be clear on that it's an opportunity to be part of the shared equity program relact forcing them jeff can speak to the cash flow of that and how they're actually going to build that savings I think that's what you're going to have how are you going to. Account for their savings if they're part of that cheered equity program you wouldn't run through the cash and as short answer is great with me right now so okay simply put you know they're back in a principle of interest payment and so they were if they've been there three years and not five they'll get their three years worth the principle back and they'll get the equity appreciation that occurred across the three years instead of five delivered to them should they actually get it returned to it like a savings account that their participation as long as they stay there with the intent that when they leave they will be given that money too healthy be able to purchase a house as as well as the equity appreciation of that house during that time as well be a three years or five years etc back to the superintendent as far as being equal to all the other employees that are not could be able to participate in their son I know it's catholic step faith that that's what you're going to do at the end of the time. How do you resolve that within your district as far as employee satisfaction make sure that those that are going to be criminal to live in those are are not being given in a financial advantage of the others they're out there having to pay for just like everybody else house to do well I think there are many services that are employees participate in that are not equal they all don't participate in fla it they participate in the programs that are necessary for them. And so are we providing stoppings for others that don't participate in housing now so this is just a service or an opportunity for those who meet the income requirements to enter into an opportunity for housing okay and one last quick when you made a comment earlier in your in your comment. Something to the effect of you you're not going to have to build now or you won't have to spend that money on buildings and do you remember that comment and I was trying to speaking to the the districts not in a position to invest money and the project other than the land donation because we're saving that money for future school development. Is that going to have been bearing on a request you have before the department for financial assistance on facilities end based if you've got a plan already submitted this goes through did you factor that into the request that you may have made to the department in order to receive facility funding for any request that you've got. I don't completely understand your question if do you have a request before the state now for facility funding for any of your buildings under your ten year plan we do not rep night at this time. Okay but you would include that in if this goes through you would include that in your request that you're now going to be able to save money because you would go forward with that that would be factored into that request well any request for money from facilities would meet the requirements for a facilities this will be no part of facilities request representative of mcnair you recognize thank you mr I fear a lot of concerns in their bodies today and and honestly because we can do something doesn't necessarily mean that we should do something. But I will page twenty three of your powerpoint it says that accelerate owned a homes. But likely would be tax exempt. The. I'm quite sure the other property owners are pay taxes. Not be real happy about that I don't understand all that I just want to serve they aren't they will mind time the title but it's likely going to be taxed with them. Why would it be tactics then. So typically because we are non profit and if we are the owner of properties as a non profit it's not guaranteed but usually are experiences that you are then tax exempt if you're using that property for the mission of your foundation in our case affordable housing is that i'd go on to say if it turns out we aren't tax exempt then we will not pass that tax cost on to the teachers we would cover that then. Okay thank you. Representative back you're recognized. Thank you mister. In a in a lot of great questions here at all i'll tell you I have some concerns about government getting into the market this is kind of dancing on that line a little bit I think but the question. Really is. I have a concern about who's going to decide in the fort talk about the forties houses I have those are a grant and have those or the chaired equity or whatever who's going to decide who's in that house. Not this school district we participate in creating the criteria for entry into those homes and it's deed restricted for example we have to be employed with the district it will not and all the other criteria the good credit rating and the offenses the background check if they meet that criteria then the management company who runs the properties will make the decision for those properties it will not be the the the school district will not have a part in making a car who rents in their property all will do is the the management company will reach out to the district to ensure that there are currently employed in the school district. As facilities do now but i've heard you refer to this says you are from many things benefits to your employees and this is just another benefit that you offer but you're saying that you have nothing to do with this this is comparable we see this as a benefit to recruit and retain staff we will not run the management of this company of any of this apartment. Complex so the school district if if the company wanted to rent out those things out to whoever. They couldn't do that they couldn't do that because that's all in the agreement up front and the deed restrictions are so they're they only want that decide who gets in there yes with the one stipulation that they have to work for now there are multiple stipulated concern about all right thank you all right last questions. Finder doesn't thank you mister chair. So this is something you touched on before the once a district employee is no longer employed by the district they would have to vacate the property but you were working on the details you have an estimate about how long that might be. I do have it in writing but I don't recall I hate a six months I don't recall. Yeah I agree were were working through what that looks like but it's giving them like a six month window to thirty days but not a year thirty days if that's indian what happens to the property after the thirty five years. Yeah it's so that's another piece of this where if the property it's part of the donation agreement that we're working through right now so I don't want to say for sure what's going to happen in that sense but the intent is if it's to be sold that school would have first ride refusal to purchase their at its market value at that point if it were to be sold so so all the houses and property and everything that is built upon it for whatever the market value at that time is would be the first rate of view requirement okay. And. I guess i'm just going back to the purchase versus donation of the land have as far as accelerate have you purchased land for other projects like this in the past we've yes we have but that was our only contribution to that project. If you follow me so in this case we're not purchasing the land the land is donated we've also helped get land donated in other cases on other projects as well. But when in the case where we help purchase the land and and then we donated the land after we purchased it we made no other investment so in this case we're not making the purchase of the land but we will be investing over five million dollars the biggest single housing investment that we've done as a foundation into this and so at some point you get to the limits of how much more can you put into a single project and if if somehow we had to purchase this now with some rents go up you can't accomplish what you're out to do because we're out to try and get that the prices as far as rental or that equity program in a way that works for the school in this case okay and then finally this this and more goes back to the school district as far as just. I'm sure you've anticipated there could be legal challenges to this what what have you spent I mean I know there's been letters and of course. Mister neis sitting here so there's been some legal fees for a the school district expense wise to to get to this point what what have we spent on legal fees as a as a school. To this point and then what going forward if there is litigation do you what what sort of exposure liability does the district have if it goes to litigation so let me take the first question legal fees have been minimal most of the heavy lifting has been done by kutak rock who represents. The foundation and also the attorney general's office my my primary role was taking their work product examining their work product interacting with the arkansas apartment of education. It so most of the heavy lifting was done before my involvement so could I tell you a number now could I pay is probably less than five or six hours yes. All right thank you thank you all very much for being here today for traveling down to spending. You're very valuable town with us on this. Presenting this project in in providing feedback to those who get questions. Members with no other business on our agenda we are adjourned.