Education Committee - Senate

Good morning. I'm calling the meeting of the Senate Education Committee to order and um we have. Cor Ween not to go. Oh, right there. OK, all right, OK, and Senator Sullivan is ill, so he won't be here today. So first thing I'd like to do is to introduce, we have two pages here for the Senate. And I would like to introduce them, please. Turner Sanders from Whitehall and Avery Cabela from Fayetteville, so glad to have you with us. Thank you very much. And let me see, I think the first on our agenda is Senator dismaying with the Senate Bill 59. You are recognized. All right, You are recognized. Thank you, members, thank you for taking the time to hear this issue today. I think it's critical. I think you're all aware you have the For a long time. You know, roughly 25%. All our food insecure. Um, you know, we require them to just go to school, and I think rightfully. Other And so I think the governor's support for her commitment that we'll pay, pay for a breakfast for every student in the state of Arkansas that attends a public school. We're proud. and look forward to the results that we created from allowing this to occur, uh, we will first make sure funds that are made available. Anything left over to make up that difference, I will be funded with this bill. It goes a little farther than the bill, just as far as details, so you're aware, this stipulates the priority for how we utilize the medical marijuana revenues that come in. So first it's for the summer EBD program. me pull up the amount on that. I apologize. I had it a minute ago. Uh, and the second would be the reduced lunch program which we passed last session and then 3rd in priority would be this breakfast program which has a cost of roughly $14 million and we do believe that is most likely on the high side, but wanted to be conservative with the estimates with that, I would be happy to take any questions. I want to make sure that we leave time for those that are here that want to speak on the bill. Send her flowers. Thank you, Senator Dismay for bringing the bill. I support it. Just want some clarification on what you just said about the um string EBD you mentioned, yeah, so the summer EBD program has a cost of 2.9 million. That that is a federal program that the state opted into. It's widely successful this summer. Second is the Last session we passed a bill that paid the remaining portion of the reduced lunch for those that qualified for a reduced. That estimate was 6 million has not come in close to that at all, but again, just to be on the high side, we say 6 million and then roughly 14 million for this uh breakfast program. So the EBD and the other program that you just mentioned, they will still be in place would be the EPP program first would be the reduced lunch and then 3 would be the breakfast roughly that go into this fund annually, and again, that can go up and down. In the medical marijuana fund, OK, and so the which is now the food insecurity fund. OK, so there will be money left over from the medical marijuana fund and that would be just set aside for us to consider the future point. What if anything is being funded by the Medical marijuana fund now. Historically we have used it to fund NCI over at UAMS. What's NCI National Cancer Institute, uh, and so when those funds were no longer needed for that purpose, we developed this food insecurity and health need fund which it was utilized so far it's been utilized just for the free and reduced lines. In addition to that, there was a commitment to stand up our uh Medical Brad is not the I'm missing on the words, but we The medical graduate programs here in the state, you know, pairing up with hospitals. Uh, that commitment there's still about $20 million left over in the fund this year, so there are programs need. OK, so then any monies that are remaining after you utilizing it for this program. From the medical marijuana. Fun It'll just stay there in a trust or something. It'll stay in this food insecurity fund. And until we come back into session and OK, thank you. And the other questions from the committee. said her king. So I missed part of your testimony and all this money in the marijuana thing, but uh, so is this going to be any new federal money that's going to have to be spent to federal money? No, we would be utilizing. OK. Does this require 2/3 vote to get the marijuana money through the lets it does not, OK. You're right. Thank you, Madam Chair. I think Senator Desma, we kind of discussed yesterday a little bit about my concerns and I just want to maybe expand on that so we're we're using some existing federal funds. Can you Identify how those federal funds are allocated to the state. It's the free and reduced lunch program and again my understanding is there are forms that are sent home to the parents to indicate whether or not they qualify based on their income levels. It's probably more complicated than. Be more specific, um, and then so that's gonna put you into the category if you qualify for a completely free launch or a reduced lunch or you don't qualify, you know, whatsoever, um, you know, that those forms obviously would still of the lunch program that we have and so many things back to. Uh, those numbers. There's some elections that can be made on a district level that again is on my, uh, you know. My, my understanding, and you have, you have multiple districts in the state that have elected to be a schoolwide free and reduced lunch program and someone else can speak to. I don't know where my ed folks are, but they, they know a lot more about that than I would. OK, so I think just, just to make sure my my somewhat of my fear is Those forms go out beginning of the school year. And parents can elect to opt into the program, um, schools typically have had to try to get to a ratio to make sure all kids that need covered are covered, um, and you know, obviously forms that get sent home sometimes don't get handed off to the parents kind of get lost so those forms go out quite a bit to incentivize not only the reimbursement to the schools but also to ensure the child gets fed. If we stand up a program like this where the option is fill out a cumbersome form that ask all the details about my family and my racial makeup and sign here that it's complete by penalty of perjury. All the excessiveness of the form that the federal government requires where option B. Just made the request to my administration. To use the state's program. Do you feel like the numbers that we are projecting will slowly start to increase because the option A of You know, kids wanna go out to eat for lunch there or they want to take their lunch, but breakfast is now an option. We'll just sign up for the free breakfast and not worry about this form anymore, so the federal rates start to come down and the state rates start to go up. Uh, I'm on the way in, had a discussion with the superintendent. There's going to still be a need and a push to make sure that these forms are filled out because so much relies on those numbers as far as funding and again we're not covering lunches and so for that student to still qualify, they would need to have filled out. For and when one of the reasons this is important is because parents refuse to fill out the forms, especially for some of the students that need this help the most, and so that it is a stopgap in some way for You know, families that aren't. Taking the time to fill out the forms or don't understand how to fill out the forms or whatever it may be to be able to make sure that your child receives at least one meal a day. You know, at the school district level. Do you know it's obviously gonna be different, different schools, but the same parent that refuses to fill out the form, will they take them to the school at appropriate time to be fed that lunch, or is there programs that the school have that pulls those kids out of the first hour to ensure they're fed and they're not asking for a meal which their parents will not deliver them to school at the appropriate hour. The breakfast would have to be provided by request, right? So the student's going to have to request that breakfast. I should've stated there is a cap on what could be, you know, paid to the district, which is the federal cap that's placed on a on a breakfast. Um, again, someone else can tell you what that dollar amount is. But as far as You know, our mandates only go so far in parental rights do have a place and sometimes that's negligent in places they shouldn't be. That's not contrary to the law, again, we would hope that most parents would fill these forms out for the kids that qualify. We would hope that they're able to utilize and get the, you know, breakfast and lunch that they need to be successful in school. I mean, if you're going to start out your day, you went to bed with an empty stomach and you started your day with an empty stomach and you're expected to make it through the entire day without a meal, I mean. None of us sitting around this table have to go through that. Or even have to contemplate it. Uh Again, I think that's why it's critical. I mean, I've heard the pushback from some folks that say that there are families obviously that could afford this breakfast. I'd agree. There are, and I'm I'm anticipate a lot of those families will continue to pay or they'll, you know, elect to have a more expensive lunch than maybe some other students would have otherwise, um, but again, we, we ask these kids to be in school. We actually mandate that they be in school. We want them to be successful. Let's give them the basic tool to be successful, and that is to start the day. Without an empty stomach. I mean we buy laptops, we buy all these things for kids. have the means, you know, some of them to buy these same resources and tools. To me this is no different. I mean, let's let's let them start out on the right foot. Let's let them have the option and let's do something about the food insecurity problems we have here in the state. Thank you. Thank you. Senator flowers. Senator, just one question that has come to me from constituents is the food itself. Are we gonna have an effort to utilize and, and get Um, produce and food provided from Arkansas producers. Farmers Is anybody thought about that or any discussion about that. I think there is a discussion about that again, that's not in this bill. Someone else even at the table may know a little bit more about that, but I think there is a push in the state to utilize food sources, you know, produced here in the state, but again, that's not, not in this bill. But I, but again, I think that it is a discussion because they were concerned, it seemed to me about the quality. Of the food that would be served, would it be something less than these uh kids that have uh eligible for the federal program would have now there are a lot of newer type of options coming along. So I know in Cersei and we have our superintendent here can speak to it a little bit. There was a partnership to offer smoothies, so a quick, efficient, very healthy option providing protein and some of the, you know, essential vitamin. to children through a smoothie, a very, you know, an easy thing. It's manageable and actually could be, you know, like I said if someone to speak to it, they can, so there are, there are a ton of opportunities maybe we hadn't thought about in the past, but I know that these folks that work for us at the schools are thinking through to make sure that they get the most nutritious thing that they can, and they do have dieticians. That's that's what I'm, yes, that's absolutely right I think I don't know if it's in state rules that it has to be of a certain certain nutrients. Uh But that's something that I think needs to be expressed to the public. Uh, for parents, but you know, smoothies. I like smoothies, but sometimes when you put milk in there for a lactose uh resistant person, that's not a good option, so I mean, you know, allergies that kids might have to certain kinds of foods, but I'm sure a dietician at a school district. would want to develop. All those kinds of issues and bring them to a conclusion. Somebody behind me or something, yeah, and if, if I mean, it's up to the chair and the committee. We're well outside my wheelhouse, so my wife is much more healthy than I am. She could probably go toe to toe with anybody on what to what to utilize and what to do. That is not me, but I like I said I think there's a host of people back here that could answer those questions. Senator Murdoch Takes a minute for it to come on. Yes, ma'am. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Senator for bringing this. I just question fully support what we're doing here, but so are we trying to. encompass some people that were missing. I know in many of the districts I represent, uh, some of the poor from a wealth standpoint have already made this for many, many years. That's right. Who are we trying to pick up that we're missing here? Do we, do we, and then those that can afford it are probably. Doing it maybe in some other way maybe we're trying to help them. I'm just trying, who are you trying to a district that offers universal free breakfast right now it's not 100% covered by the feds. It's a commitment that they make through their funds. Again, someone else can speak to that a lot more than I can, but I had a call from a, you know, a friend of mine that's a superintendent that was walking me through what they do and their particular district and that's the way that I understand it. There's some magic number thresholds 60 something, 65%, I can't remember what they are. Again, that's just not my, not my, not my deal. Uh, but it would cover, it would cover the remaining part that is not currently covered or that is the intent and then there's other districts that don't have that qualification in place and so they're they're free and reduced number at least of those that have submitted a form don't let them allow to hit those thresholds. I get it. This is taking the cost away. They're providing it, but it's at their own cost. This will allow it to be, there are some districts that elected to do that, some have not. It's all based on the funds available that they have. Um, but yeah, thank you. Senator Davis, thank you, Madam Chair. That was the point I was going to hit on a little bit that Senator Murdock Murdock brought up, um, having 4 kids in public school right now, you imagine the forms that get sent home with us at the beginning of the year that we fill out, and I think schools, and several of our elementary schools in particular, the the entire school has free breakfast because of the thresholds. Um, and so I think the schools have done a very good job over the years helping take away some of that stigma of filling out a form and saying we need everyone. This is a group effort, no matter what you make, um, no matter your financial um status, we need everyone to turn these forms in and so, um, I was just gonna make mention that I think schools have done a really good job over the years trying to take that stigma away and make it more of a group effort and then breakfast is well to the classroom. The kids all get to eat. It's not pulling. certain kids out or saying you get breakfast, um, because you qualify and you don't and that kind of thing, um, so would you agree? Yeah, Representative Davis passed a bill right before he termed or didn't turn out or left office. I don't remember what the choice was there, and essentially it prevented schools from discriminating against kids that couldn't afford their breakfast, and so I'm May have someone had a stamp on their hand that would designate them to be different than the other students and to remove that stigma, we did that well and also doing that, you know, that required every kid that requested a lunch to be fed, which is a wonderful thing, but also increase the cost potentially to the school district for the kids that did not qualify, and then it made it more difficult for the kids they were trying to collect on through the parents, and you can hear testimony and they can come and do it. About It may seem like a little amount to us, but it is a big amount to a large number of families in this state in the in the bottom of the thing that you have here when we're talking about those districts that have requested to qualify as a free and reduced lunch district, and that's probably not the term, but you know, essentially that fewer than 30% of Arkansas kids are in those districts. Assume I'm reading that. Correctly. The questions. Oh, I'm sorry, Senator Flowers. One other thing that just came across my mind in terms of Appropriating the money. How will it get to the schools or school districts will it be a part of the pupil funding or what the ADE will set up a program. The districts will then be allowed to submit their information requests essentially what would be a reimbursement. So that would happen at the beginning of the school year. Uh, it would They can speak to how they want to term it. I don't think we got real specific about that. It would work just like it's working now for the reduced portion of the school lunches. Um So, but if, like I said, if you all have a question for ADD about how they See how they would probably implement. I think it would be on the back end we would front load and pay for lunches before they or breakfast, I'm sorry, before they would occur. I don't think that would make sense, especially since the legislation is based on a request for a breakfast, OK, so ADE we can expect will come up with some rules. That's correct, yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Senator Bryant Thank you, Madam Chair. Just, just kind of echoing on some thoughts that really want one question and I'll go at leading to the second question as far as moving fund balances from the food insecure and health needs set aside of the restricted reserve into the food and security. Are we, what are we taking away from that program or are we just adding to that program and allowing. We're actually just setting guard rails for that fund that didn't exist previous to this legislation that was a request from the governor's office, I think a good one, you know, it would prevent someone else from getting ahead, for instance, of funding these programs, and so this is all this bill does beginning, I think it's 2526 is outline the priorities of how we're going to utilize those funds, um, again, there's, there's a current balance that's sitting right now. GME was the word I was looking for just a minute ago, but it will help fund. that radical, uh, graduate medical uh program that we've we're looking at that is still not off the ground but needs to be off the ground. That was a commitment and after we fund that with the one-time money, then moving forward, this is, this is priority and we'll, we'll reassess each session we come in and kind of better understand the balances and the need at the district levels, OK, and because we're using medical marijuana revenues to fund these types of programs is of a concern that if a member of the General Assembly wants to restrict Or further. Pull back the ability of medical marijuana to expand that we will be met with the argument you'll be taking the food out of the kids' mouths if you do that. I don't think so. I mean, I mean, I don't, it's a constitutional amendment unless we're going to pass a constitutional amendment doing away with what's there or someone else comes up with another one and we would have to reassess, uh, I think. Uh, future taxation depending on how we move forward with its legalization or whatever, this would probably be become a part of that conversation. Um, I would imagine because that same argument would exist. I don't know how we can do any more than it's been done on limiting utilization of medical marijuana in the state, just constitutionally banned. Hey further comments from the committee. Senator Dismay, or are you closed for your bill? Oh, we got people speak for it. I'm sorry. Let me see. Hey, turn the mic on. There's a dismay. So now we're talking about public schools. Are we talking about charter schools too, public charter schools. My understanding, I don't know that charter schools, do they qual someone else would have to answer that. I mean, I don't know if they qualify for free introducing lunch or not. They do. They do, yes, so these numbers in this fiscal impact. That encompasses and includes children that are enrolled in charter schools as well. That's, I'm getting a head nod, yes. Not private. I'm not talking about private. I'm talking about public charter schools. And public schools, that's I just wanted to clarification on charter schools to privates. I'm, I'm perfectly feeding any kid that needs to be fed, OK, and our charter school students now. Eligible Or can they apply for eligibility for the EBD? I, I don't know the answer to that. Scott Smith's in the room and he's such an expert on stuff. Uh, if he has an answer, Madam Chair, I think the question be is any school elected to participate in the summer EPD program that's a charter school, and I don't know the answer to that. Per OK, thank you. OK, we have a couple of folks to speak for the bill here, um, first one is Jason Black. No, no, that's me. I, I signed in over here. I'm not speak outside. Oh, OK, OK. All right, OK. Let me see then. How about, uh, Megan Brown. OK, go ahead. If you would identify yourselves and who you're with, you will be recognized. Uh, Doctor Jeff Collum, and this is I'm superintendent of schools for Conway Public schools, and this is with me today, Megan Brown. She's our food service director. Go ahead. If you want to ask superintendents an easy question. if you want to keep kids safe and you want to feed them, the answer's a very easy yes, so we're here obviously to speak in favor of this bill and just thinking about the importance scientifically breakfast is one of the most important meals of the day, and if you have a kid that is sitting in class and their stomach is growling louder than the teachers talking, uh, you have a problem and so we're about 53% uh free and reduced launch, and so 47%, you know, you can see the math on we've got 10,000 students, and I think our food service department does an excellent job, but if you want to meet Maslow's hierarchy basic needs. We just dropped about $100 million on school safety, and I think that is to be applauded tremendously and I think districts are using those funds for really good causes, but if you were to pair that with making sure that our our students are eating breakfast, then you're meeting the human basic needs of feeling safe, warm, and dry, and you're feeding. our children, and so I think it's more than a worthy cause, and we can tell you story after story about our students that come from a lot of different backgrounds and need this need this to be met in order to get through the day and so uh we'll we'll be happy to answer any questions as far as our district data. This is my data guru. She can tell you anything you want to know about Conway Public schools and our food service program, but I just want to praise the efforts to even have a bill like this on the table. So thank you for It's time today to speak. The questions from the committee, Senator Flowers. Sorry, I forgot your name already, Megan Brown. Brown. So can you speak? To nutritional value that's required of breakfast. And meals at school. Yes, absolutely, and I am registered dietitian. Um, I've been with the district for 8 years and we follow USDA no pattern guidelines. So we have very strict regulations with meeting meal pattern for breakfast and for lunch, and that includes dietary specifications, so we have to offer a certain amount of grains and meats, fruit, and milk every day at breakfast and then we also have to meet certain calories, sodium, and saturated fat. line s and then if it stays in place, USDJA is also going to add in a few other regulations starting next school year, which will include added sugar. No restrictions on added sugar. for breakfast and I just, I want to kind of piggyback on a question you asked you about the nutrition benefits. I think of anything if you're to pass this for all kids to eat free breakfast, that's gonna be more money that we can put back into our program and instead of focusing on student charges, which right now we have $317,000 in student charges at Conway right now and instead of having to focus on that, we can use the money for the free breakfast to increase the quality of our food. What did you say? charges? What what is that? OK, so back in 2019, I've got the act. It's A. Act 428 was passed in the state of Arkansas. It was the anti-lunch shaming bill, so we weren't allowed to in Conway, what we did is our charge policy was students were allowed to charge the equivalent of 3 breakfasts and 3 lunches, and then after that they got what was considered an alternate meal, and in Conway it was a serreal and a milk at breakfast and at lunch it was an entree and a milk, but after that bill got passed in 2019, we weren't allowed to have a charge anymore. We any kid that came through our line, ate breakfast and lunch and we weren't allowed to say no, you need money or anything like that. And so what has happened, it's, it's been good I'll say for our ladies in the cafeteria. My food service workers because they haven't had to worry about, oh, I got to give you an alternate meal because. We don't have enough money, so that has been a positive, but the negative effects of that bill is we have students that owe thousands of dollars in charges, and we have 10,000 students, and as of today we have $317,000 in charges, um, food service, we get federal money, federal reimbursement, and there are very strict rules and regulations on how we can spend that money, um, and we cannot spend that money on student charges. So what's happening is we can carry what's called delinquent that, so we have students that stay in our district K through 12, so they could charge year after year after year, and we carry that money. When it's considered bad debt, food service can't pay for that, so we actually have to build the district. So when we have students that drop or graduate and they still have charges, we build the district for that, so that's money that's coming out of our district that could be used for safety for teachers, for other things, and they're actually having to pay food service for those charges. I know just last month, we build the District $7000. Do you think? Yes, we did. They're very good. She's ruthless. She makes sure, yes ma'am. Uh Like I'm sure, I, I guess you know. How would you handle it if you consistently see what you said you're about 53% of students that turn in the federal forms and get reduced lunch. And, and what is the threshold for the whole school if you hit like 70% is a whole school with then qualify or is it higher than that, you know I'm, I'm assuming you mean community eligibility CEP, um, the threshold has changed in recent years, I think it needs to be about 60% of your ISP population, which is your direct certified students that um are in a household that has food stamps. We get lists from the state periodically throughout. the year and those kids automatically qualify for free meals or students that are designated homeless, migrant runaway, or foster that threshold really needs to be about 60% in order for all of our meals to be covered 100%. OK, do you, do you have a intuition, not, not asking to look in the future that you'll have. Family is less likely to participate in the federal program if they can at least have the state pay for one meal, and they just I really don't, I really don't think so only because they're still going to have to pay for lunch. So that still is a huge incentive to fill out those forms or opt out and just charge it and never have to pay that debt. Yes, I mean that is a possibility, um, I just know that on our end we do all that we can to make sure those parents fill out a form. We send texts and emails 3 times a week if they have a negative balance, um, we have an online application that parents can fill out, um, we can email that to them, we can text it to them so they can fill it on on their phone. So we don't just have that paper application anymore in Conway. What would you say is the percentage of parents that will pay that debt. On either yearly basis or prior to graduation. I really, I mean, I would just, yeah, I would, so, so really there there I see it as a risk that they fill out these forms less, and they tell their child just to forego lunch. Um, because we're tired of getting those statements but then the child has the option or the parents have the option to tell their child just to. You know, I've gotten these notices for the last 2 years. There's no Ability for the school to collect. So continue to charge it because I pay my taxes to the school, so therefore they should and that's that's kind of where we're stuck is. There's not much more we can do to collect on that bad debt, and I think it's a good phase approach if you're going to start this, this program, start with breakfast. And get a litmus test on, can we do this and evaluate that cost, and then if it works well, um, see if, see if you want to expand it to lunch, analyze the costs after that, and see if you want to expand it to launch, but it is, you've got a valid point. It's, it may be hard to collect on that. And so how would Conway schools respond if if next school year this goes into effect, assuming we get it through to the governor. It goes into effect. You see a decline in enrollment in federal forms because it hits the news and you're, you're offering because you want to feed these children. You see the form enrollment go down. Quite a bit, and then you see your debt ratios of lunches go up, how would obviously the school district is going to comply with the law. They're going to feed the child, but how would you all recover those expenses? I think we're, um, you can answer too. I think we're stuck in a mode where we're going to end up paying for this no matter what, so we're going to continue to have to pay on bad debt no matter what. Um, and if we're gonna air, let's err on the side of trying to feed the kids as much as we can. It may hurt us. It may hurt us before it gets better, um, but if we were to er, it would be let's feed the babies as much as we can and we'll figure it out the way we're trying to figure it out now, but it's, it is a risk. And unfortunately, USDA has a regulation that we can't require families to fill out the form. We can strongly encourage, we send home a paper form at the beginning of every school year and it may be that we send those forms home more frequently. We send out emails to parents with a direct link to the online forum to encourage them to fill it out, but unfortunately we can't require a family to fill it out. And I think we're pretty aggressive as aggressive as we can be within the law. They do an excellent job. I mean, they're, they're on top of trying to collect on this, but until there's honestly until there's some teeth in that we've gone as far as we can go probably like most districts we've gone as far as we can go to collect on that. All right, thank you. Any other questions? Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anybody else in the audience who would like to speak for units of the bill. Seeing none. What is the will of the committee need to you need to close for your bill. Yeah, I'd love to motion, but also if there's any questions that you had earlier obviously that I couldn't answer. I mean, I want you to have the answers before you take your vote, so I mean with that if there's nothing else then I'm closed. What's the will of the committee? Senator Murdoch. Senator Davis All in favor. Hall poses Thank you. You've passed your bill. Thank you Madam Chair, committee members. And I think that is all we have on the agenda for the day and so this meeting is adjourned.