ALC - Administrative Rules
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Members you make waiter seats we'll call the order the administrative rules subcommittee thank you for
being here as we kick off today's meeting I wanna make sure to remind those who wish to make comments on any of the rules to go ahead and sign in up at the front we'll be taking up those sign in sheets momentarily in a few minutes so make sure you get signed up if you'd like to speak on any of the rules on the agenda today Members please go ahead and log in at your stations if you've not done so already. we've got a pretty full agenda and so for some housekeeping and for
public so you can fall along of the order we're gonna go on wanna make sure you you track how we're gonna go through the agenda so so first off we will be passing over the end of the agenda 22 and23 those agencies have asked to go to a different day so we will come back on 22 and23 those will not be heard today. Also we're gonna take things a little bit out of order due to the the length of the the rules that are being reviewed so we're gonna go4 through 21. that's going to be
our order4 through 21. then we will come back and do3,2,1. so that will be our order4 through 21 and then come back and do3,2,1. so all right without any other announcements or concerns let's go ahead and stand up if we don't mind let's pray and kick off this mit. right let's ray thank you lord thank you
for today thank you for the chance to to serve the people we so you help us do that well and that you give us
your grace and that our eyes are always fixed on you and
towards the service of of this great state thanks for all the blessings that we don't even think to thank you for but we're so thankful to get to do this job and and hope to do it well do you say and pray amen right
members let's go to number4 on your agenda and we will invite up the department of Energy
right all right thank you for being here if you will turn your microphones on and introduce
Representative Nicole Clowney
Unverified
4:29
yourself for the record thank you Mr Chair amanda Land, chief counsel Department of Energy and
Speaker 20
4:35
Environment. good afternoon Bailey Taylor, chief administrator ofnvironment and deEQ director thank you you recognized
Representative Nicole Clowney
Unverified
4:42
to present your role you. We are here seeking review of the pollution control and ecology Commission rule regarding solid waste management rules. The rule is amending 8
carar60 to formalize special language Currently the rule provides that any expenditures and excess of50,000 dollars from the landfill post closure trust fund are reviewed by the commission and this proposed rule would increase the amount of that threshold review up to $2 million which is also consistent with that special language happy to take any
Speaker 22
5:11
questions thank you thank you members you have any
questions all right for clarity's sake
this doesn't go against anything that's been appropriated already already to your agency and this just
Speaker 26
5:32
moves up to the appropriation amount is that correct? correct it it's not really much to do with the appropriation we have plenty of appropriation to expend the funds for the necessary remediation. it's just it wouldn't trigger commission review because these projects are already approved by the commission. we have a prioritization set by the commission and so unless we're
spending over that threshold it wouldn't trigger a commission review like a review thank you for
that description members any questions no one has signed up
for public comment on this rule without objection this rule is reviewed and proved. thank you. all right
we will move to number5 and invite Department of Energy and Environment back to the table
if you will recognize yourself, turn your microphone on and introduce yourself you'll be recognized
Representative Nicole Clowney
Unverified
6:31
Lauren Ballard, chief of staff department of Energy and Environment. Amanda Land chief counsel Department of Energy and
Environment. Kevinalser director of the Iliqui Petroleum Gas Board thank you for being here you're recognized to present ive
Speaker 16
6:45
a thank you Mr Chair. We are here seeking review of the liquefied petroleum gas board
Representative Nicole Clowney
Unverified
6:49
rule regarding the national fire Protection association standards. The rule is amending
15 carart 270 to help conform to the national standport national standards set set forth in the protection protection association standards54 and58 which have been adopted by many other state regulatory agencies and what this will do is it will help the liquefied petroleum gas industry in Arkansas by making it more predictable and consistent and hopefully encourage some economic growth in that area. Happy to take any questions.
thank you members any questions right, seeunne there's no public comment signed up without objection this is considered reviewed and approved. thank you. right
we'll move to6 DFNA you're welcome to join the
Speaker 42
7:59
Thank you Mr Chair and members of the committee alicia austin
Smith, chief counsel for revenue at DFA. KeithlenderdFfa thank y'all for being
Speaker 42
8:10
here you are recognized to present se a thank you we are seeking review of an amended6A we are seeking review of an amended motor vehicle odometer disclosure rule Act926 of2025 amended the law to allow for electronic disclosure of odometer readings, signatures and powers of attorney. So
the proposed amended rule does this that it allows for electronic signatures elect ron ic odometer disclosures and electronic powers of attorney and our public comment hearing was held on april7th. no interested party presented comment in person or otherwise we're asking for your approval. Happy to answer any questions. thank you members you've heard the description. any
questions on the rule See none thank you for your time and no public comments signed up this without objection this
Speaker 49
9:00
is reviewed and approved thank you all right moving to7
Department of Health 7 a this is going to be page 28 in your packet members all right if you'll turn your microphone
on and introduce yourself for the record thank you Mr Chair. Craig Smith
Speaker 51
9:22
attorney for the Arkansas Department of Health thank you Mr Chair members Chuck
Speaker 53
9:26
Thompson attorney Arkansas Department of Health thank you for being here you are
recognized to present se a thank
Speaker 56
9:33
you Mr Chair. The first rule is the rules for control of ionizing radiation these proposed amendments are to comply with the acts with Act8542025 regarding diagnostic mammography and to comply with standards that are set by NRC and required by federal law the rules were open for public comment and last day was February 10th Several comments were received but were generally either comments requesting changes that would require a law change or
were taken under advisement for future promulgation that were not related to the proposed changes here these rules were reviewed without objection by a joint public health and ready for your review thank you members any
questions right we don't have anything anybody signed up for public comment
but I do want to make a public comment. congratulations you have the largest rule in the history of the state of Arkansas.1200
pages I believe is what they told me sir
congratulations thank you sir and please stop that yes sir all right members no further questions without
Speaker 56
10:43
objection this is reviewed and approved. You can go to B please yes sir would you like us to introduce ourselves for each role thank you sir. these rules are the rules for mobile home and recreational parks. the proposed amendments for these are to update language regarding industry norms and changes for contemporary living facilities some provisions were removed to eliminate it out definitions
and and limits on certain types of Rvs and related facilities. These were open for public comment. lastst day was February 20th 1 comment was received and noted for a future promulgation. these rules were also reviewed by jointublic healthalth without objection. thank you for the description members any questions OK,
Mr. Smith. talk to me about the penalties inside of this rule
Speaker 51
11:34
the fees let's see my recollection that there weren't any changes there
was when we're reviewing it looked like there were fees or penalties from 250 to1,000 dollars if you could
describe that for us please for offenses
Speaker 71
12:22
Mr. Chair, if I may Chuck Thompson attorney Arkansas Department of Health those were switched to be consistent with what the board of healthal's general authority is regarding violation of our rules that's an a that was to make sure it was clear and and consistent with what the statute says so that was more of a clarification to ensure we were aligning with the statute as opposed to as opposed to a substantive change. OK so
just for clarity then does the statue itself outline the penalty and fee structure or just gives the ability for penalty Mr. Sher gives the ability
Speaker 71
12:48
and that's that' s consistent with the board of health all the board of healthal
rules that come through there there's a there's a there's a there's a broad statute that defines what the board of healthal can and cannot do when it comes to to their fines
for violations thank you for that description members
any other questions right. see none of that objection that rule is reviewed and approved. you
Speaker 56
13:14
can go to C please thank you Mr Chair. these rules are the rules pertaining to leadbased paint activities. the proposed changes are due to updates to the EPA rules regarding lead-based paint
activities which became effective January13,2025. each state is required to update their rules consistent with these changes by January11th of 2027 and so these changes are consistent with that these rules were open for public comment, closed on May12th and no
comments were received. members any questions for7C leadbas paint all right see none this is
reviewed and approved without objection. Thank you you Mrir.
all right we are moving to 8 Department of Health our board of examiners and counseling right if you will turn your
Speaker 82
14:23
microphone on and introduce yourself for the record please. Lenora Erickson Lenora Erison. I'm the director for the Arkansas Board of examiners and counseling
Matt Gilmore department of healthalth thank you guys for being here. you're recognized
Speaker 85
14:35
to present rule number 8A we're here to do a revision our rule revision
Speaker 82
14:41
is due to legislation that was passedxcts 231,858 and Act260 of2023. and some cleanup and clarification within our rules and I'm and if there's any questions I'm here to answer those.
Members any questions well I will make sure I ask a question because I've got one from my constituent first off they're very supportive but the councilors that have have given me feedback but my question is is it easier or harder to be a councilor in
Speaker 82
15:18
the state of Arkansas with this rule? I think that we're making it easier especially with some of the legislation that was passed thank
you members any questions see none thank you for your time
this is without objection this is this rule is reviewed and approved thank
you thank you all right going to number 9 Department of Healthboardard of hearing instrument
Matt Gilmore
Unverified
15:43
disspensaries Mr Chair, if it's OK, I'm going to try to present this one by myself the employee couldn't be here today so I'm gonna try to handle it myself. it's a pretty simple change but so Matt Gilmore Department of Health this is the rule change for the board of hearing instrument dispensers just had a small change due to act641. it
just outlined something they've already been able to do just making it clear in the law to kind of match some of the FDA things that have been changed as far as ordering the devices hearing devices and so it's a pretty simple rule they didn't receive any comments have to take any questions thank you Mr
Gilmore members any questions all right see none this is
considered reviewed without objection it's reviewed and approved thank you all right moving to 10
Mr. Gilmore you can introduce yourself again we'll go
Speaker 97
16:39
Matt Gilmore department of healthalth I've got someone
coming thank you please turn your microphone on and introduce
Speaker 99
16:48
yourself for the record. I'm Russell Burns I'm the director of the Arkansas
athletic Training Board thank you for being here Mr. Burns as well. You, you guys are welcome to
Speaker 99
16:59
recognize and introduce 10 a the rule revisions the boards are proposing today are based on the recently act or excuse me
the recently passed Act266 of2025 which amended the board's practice act the proposed changes update the definition section of the board rules to match the amendedractice actct also the proposed changes clarified language concerning forms to be submitted by athletic trainers for licensure or permit issuance and renewal you Mr.urns. Members any questions for 10 a page4
see none I do have one question did you receive any public comment on this
Speaker 99
17:50
rule the boardard office received no comment however an attorney with the Bureau of Legislative Research grant wise he asked a clarifying question concerning one of the forms mentioned in that board rules and we provided that answer to him thank you all right without objection this rule
is reviewed and approved. thank you. all right we will go to 11
Speaker 107
18:14
department of healthalth state Board of ental examiners right Mr.
Gilmore we're gonna say you don't have to introduce yourself again but if you will turn your microphone on and introduce yourself for the
Speaker 110
18:35
record MeredithRogers director of the Arkansas State Board of ental examiners. thank you for
being here MrRogers. right you get you are both recognized to present 11a
Speaker 110
18:45
good afternoon Mr chairman and members of the committee I am before you on behalf of the Arkansas State Board of Dental examiners to present proposed amendments to our rules these changes primarily remove the outdated listings of dental specialties and instead align our rules with specialties recognized by the American Dental association eliminating the need for future rule changes when specialties are added or modified the proposal also repeals a rule that is no longer necessary incorporates the dentist and dental hygienist compact as
enacted by Act395 of2025 and removes outdated language regarding supervision levels for dental hygienists. no comments were received during the public comment period thank you for your consideration I would be happy to answer any questions you rogers. Members any
questions on 11 see none. thank you for the presentation without objection
this is reviewed and approved thank you all right members we will go to 12
Department of Health Arkansas State Board of nursing you're invited to join us at the table turn your microphone on
Speaker 116
20:06
and introduce yourself for the record. Good afternoon Ashley Davis director of the Arkansas State Board
Speaker 117
20:10
of nursing good afternoon Daviddawson the attorney for the board of nursing thank you for being here you are recognized to present
Speaker 119
20:18
tel a members this is page42. OK thank you we're here to present several changes to our rules for review most of them are in response to legislation that was passed during the last general session the first one is part 120 Act 198 of2025 established the dialysis is patient care technician registry to be regulated by the nursing board and the legislation required that the
applicants for registration pay a fee and the fee wasn't designated in the statute so it has to be approved by this committee before we
Speaker 123
20:56
can start collecting the fee and that's the only change in that in 120
Speaker 114
21:02
thank you members any questions all right Mrdawson will you explain the
Speaker 125
21:09
fee please? yes there it's the I'm sorry it's
Speaker 119
21:22
' s the registration initial was under initial licenger it's the initial registration fee of35 dollars which is the same fee that medication assistant certified individuals pay which is kind of the lowest amount they they make the the least amount of the professionals that we regulate and then the renewal fee whenever they have to renew their registration it's40 dollars for that and that also matches the medication
Speaker 123
21:52
assistant certified amount thank you Davis I
but he attitude all right thank you for the description members any questions seeing none without objection rules reviewed and
Speaker 119
22:10
approved are going to be this is in 17 CAR part 121reviously ther required that licensees update their address and now we need more we need more than that we need their
mailing address residential address email address and telephone numbers so we can contact them more easily makes sense
members any questions see none without objection the rules were reviewed and approved going to see thank you this
Speaker 119
22:39
is part 122 and the changes in this one were were the same as in the previous one with regard to the dd the requirement for licensees to keep their address and telephone number and that information up to date
thank you any questions that objection it is reviewed and approved
Speaker 119
23:02
most several changes in this one and it's it's all mostly because of the requirements of of the delegation the act that that authorized delegation but there were a few other acts in here Section302
previously ther only required that licensees update their well this is I'm sorry that's the same information that we just went over over the last two this was
the change on the address requirement I
Speaker 119
23:40
believe we're on the advanced practice registered nurse right yeah there's it's the same but there's multiple sections that we made changes in this rule section402 is in response to act 862 of2025 that amended the law clarifying the parameters under which APRns
may sign a death certificate and pronounce the death of a patient those changes were incorporated here subdivision402E9 is to clarify that orthotics prosthetics and diabetic shoes or inserts are included in the definition of durable medical equipment pursuant to actct431 of2025 and those changes were added to the rule subdivision402h
authorizes APRNs to delegate certain nursing tasks to unlicensed healthcare workers pursuant to act 959 of2025 and there's specific parameters listed which are that are in the the new act and those are incorporated into ther subsection404h clarifies it certified registered nurse anesthetist may not delegate the administration
of anesthesia pursuant to that act that actct959 of2025 and so we included in the rural just to make sure that that those practitioners are aware that the legislation does not allow that subdivision604C8d was in response to act 963 of2025 where APRns may now substitute a therapeutically equivalent medication and there are certain
parameters with regard to when they can do that and how they can do that and those were incorporated into the rule at that section subsection604c11A and B authorizes CRNA's to delegate the calling in of legend drugs to unlicensed ancillary staff and that's also included in Act959 of2025. and the requirements of the act are incorporated into the rules there
subsection604k where APRns are allowed pursuant to act 961 of2025 to purchase compounded products they can't dispense it but they can purchase it and those requirements are incorporated into that rule Section701 is the full practice authority parameters for certified nurse midwives were added to law and
certain to actct 138 of2025 so that was that change was incorporated in section701 and we did have a couple of comments from the nurse practitioner association one of those comments we did take their suggestion and make a change and two of those we weren't able to because of the language of the particular actxx thank you for the description members any questions I see
we do have one from Representative gonzalez. let me get you recognized you're recognized
Representative Justin Gonzales
Unverified
27:12
thank you Mrir. my question is on subdivision604C8d it's on page 46 if that helps
trying to give you a minute to get there'll
Speaker 120
27:42
just yeah I think uhrector Davis may be there I'm not there
Representative Justin Gonzales
Unverified
27:45
yet I'm sorry but she couldn't she might be able to answer. Go aheadpresentative. So all right thank you so this was our second attempt at this piece of legislation and I think our our first attempt the nursing board may be interpreted the intent of the legislation a little wrong so we tried to clarify that last session so I wanted to make sure that this time we're not running into that and we're you know two years down the
road before we can make any any more changes so I want to be sure that the nursing board got the intent right that an APRN can s can write a different prescription treating the same the the same illness or whatever but a a different prescription than what was originally written I think the first time you interpreted it that it could only they could only refill what the physician had written so we want
to be sure that they can substitute in a different medication for the same same treatment is that how
Chair
Unverified
28:49
you're interpreting this? representative as long as it is therapeutically equivalent so it can't act differently than than the original prescription
Speaker 144
28:55
but as long as it's therapeutically equivalent then yes it does allow that so as
Representative Justin Gonzales
Unverified
29:00
long as they're treating the same ADhd or whatever it is they can they can write a different prescription prescribe a different medication for that treatment as long as
Chair
Unverified
29:11
it's therapeutically equivalent yes yes ok right that's what want to be sure of. thank
you thank youpresentative Senator Hammer you're recognized
for a question. Thank you. what were the two things that they wanted that were allowed in
Chair
Unverified
29:48
on page 16 we have a list of the the types of medications that unlicensed healthcare professionals may administer they felt like that was too prescriptive and they wanted to leave that open and we felt like for public safety we needed to be very specific as to what they could and could not administer as far as unlicensed person and then the other one was it was a setting in which the
the delegation can occur and we use it's on the bottom of page 15. we use the terminology that it shall only occur in ambulatory care settings we tried to most closely match what the medical board used in their practice acts I believe that they use the term physician's office and since we're sometimes are dealing with an APRn runn office we felt like ambulatory care setting was most closely mirrored to that I believe that they wanted us to leave a more vague language and we wanted to be very clear as to where that what setting would be
most appropriate for public safety thank you thank you senator Senator Boyd you recognize for a question
Senator Justin Boyd
Unverified
30:59
thank you Mr Chair. So this goes back to what representative gonzalez said so to just to make sure we're on the same page and understand so if if someone wrote a prescription for say ocalin which is a schedulele to and Vyvanse achedule to the nurse could practitioner could make the substitution
but if the but if he or she wrote for Strattera which isn't controlled but just I couldn't come up with another that that would be something that's not therapeutically equivalent iss that your understanding ok and then then follow up just quickly is then what about a Daytraa patch so hit it had they prescribed Focalin originally and but the right thing to do for insurance or some other reason is to switch to from a oral med to a dayytrana patch
would you consider that therapeutically equivalent I hate to
Speaker 116
31:56
speak and and not not say the right thing but as long as they are therapeutically equivalent I do not believe that they're limited on the route in which the medication is given so I would think patch versus oral medication would not be a would not prevent
Speaker 118
32:11
them from being able to switch as long as they were therapeutically equivalent would you would you get
Senator Justin Boyd
Unverified
32:16
us an opinion to Representative gonzalez and made just so we're all on the same
page on what that means thank
you thank you senator Senator Johnson Blake Johnson you're
Speaker 162
32:31
recognized under604k I believe he said this is the compound the allows them to purchase compounded
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
32:36
products but he said they can't disp Correct so they can't have them shipped
Speaker 116
32:44
to their office and then hand them to the patient that would be dispensing which would be dispensing which should be
against the board of pharmacy rules what would they do with them if they administered them in the office then they could purchase them and administer them in office but they could not hand them to the patient to take home to administer is that make sense that makes
Speaker 168
33:14
sense Boyd makes sense to him it makes sense to me
thank you senator members any other questions? I see Representativeburkes you are recognized thank you So I understand that one of the
Speaker 172
33:24
issues the nurse practitioner association had with the with the
Speaker 174
33:26
list of medications was with that list might not be updated frequently. What protocol do you have to ensure that it continues to get updated on a regular
Chair
Unverified
33:37
basis. so we would use a you know, future rule promulgations to make sure that those that that list is still accurate and we you know s saying close contact with our nurse practitioner association to see if there are issues coming up we just felt like for public safety if a if a new drug needed to be
administered we wanted to go through a full review before we just kind of had it open ended in our rules so yes we would absolutely entertain future drugs that might that might need to be on that list but we want
Speaker 144
34:06
to do a full a full review of that before we would add them. OK so no regularly scheduled review but just as issues come up we typically review our rules every year so that would that would happen in that process yes members any other questions
seeing none without objection this is reviewed and approved. You can
Speaker 119
34:33
move to E12e thank you this is under part 124 under CARart 124 of our rules and since Act959 of2025 now allows APRNs to delegate to unlicensed personnel this rules listed acts that were not prohibited as being allowable in some of those are now allowable because of this
act and so we made those
changes in this rule thank you members any questions seeing none without objection this is reviewed and approved
Speaker 119
35:08
going to 12e it's in part 126 Arkansas code annotated 2515206 which is part of the administrative procedures Act requires that each agency provide a rule or process for filing considering petitions for declaratory orders and when we were doing our yearly review for
we discovered our rules don't have that requirement and so we're adding it
now thank you for the description this is 1elF I think I misspoke
on that members any questions see none1elf without objection is a reviewed and approved going to
Speaker 119
35:53
12g thank you under this rule there were the entire section of section 127
was was changed in response to Act265 of2025 where the title for medication assisted certified individuals was changed to certified medication assistance we did get some public comment on this because there are other healthcare professionals with medical certified medical assistance and they thought that there would be confusion with the acronym between the two acronyms well the the act does allow
people who are certified to use either term the the prior term MAC or the new term CMA since that does allow them to use that either term then we instead of removing MAC we just added certified medication assistance and so throughout the rule we've we've added that in there and in all the references there are a few more references that have to do with certain other acts subdivision 102 one
A and B this is in response to act 265 of2025 there were changes made to the qualifications for certification and those are incorporated into that rule also it it the Act2652025 added additional training requirements and so those were incorporated into section 1021b of the rule
Act265 also allowed subcutaneous injections of insulin to be allowed by these certified individuals and it was added to the list of routes in which nonprescription or alleging medications may be administered so we we changed that 105B8 in order in response to that part of the legislation 105C2 had an exception of subcutaneous insulin
injections and now the act allows it so we made that change there and section 109 is the one we've changed in several other previous sections about the mailing address and the information we need from from the registrant or the certificate holders in this case 110A2 subdivision it changed the timeline for
renewal and mailing notices to be consistent with the same timeline that we use in other parts of our rules. We noticed when we're reviewing these that that that timeline was different so we extended it from30 days to60 days subdivision 113C6 made changes to the training program requirements and this was also in response to Act265 of2025. and
subdivision 113d2A made changes to the minimum pass requirements for first time percentage to from first time percentage requirements to overall percentage. This amendment was proposed after consultation with the institutions that provide MAC and CMA training overall rates are generally better than the first time rates and this change by going to overall rates instead of first term rates will assist the institutions and prevent earlier warnings or closures it will
assist the programs to be able to have more time to establish their programs that's all
that changes in this section. thank you for the description members any questions for 12g see none without objection this is reviewed and approved. thank you. go to tel h page58
Speaker 119
40:05
members of your summary agenda thank you this is changes to part 130 of17 CAR the section over independent practice
credentialing committee and actually under part 130 we added clinical nurse specialists to the list this was in response to Act872 of2023 we inadvertently left it off of our proposed changes two years ago and so we caught it this time on review and we're adding it now. thank you for the cleanup and description members any questions
for t2h? see none without objection this is reviewed and approved.12 i
Speaker 119
40:43
this is the new section in in response to actct 198 of2025 that created the dialysis patient care technician registry that's regulated by the nursing board and so this whole section is brand new what we did was we took the medication assistance certified rules and we kind of used it as a pattern to to develop these rules we did
get some I think one public comment on this that we made a change in response to and grant wise from the bureau of Legislative Research was very helpful he had lots of comments that that he he caught things we didn't catch on our first go through on it and and we made those changes to make it comply with it make sure it comply with the statute thank you for the description members any questions for 12 i? seeing none without objection
the rule is reviewed and approved. thank you for your
time Mdawson Misss Miss Davis and Mr.dawson appreciate it. thank you all right we will go to 13 department of Health Arkansas State Board of pharmacy right if you'll introduce yourself
John Claykirtley
Unverified
42:06
for the record thanks sir my name is John Claykirtley. I'm the director of the Arkansas State Board of pharmacy
thank you for being here you gentlemen are recognized for 13 a
John Claykirtley
Unverified
42:16
yes sir in 13A you'll see we have changes that basically take over or answer five different issues. first one is the description of the actual board members according to Act938 updating for changes from the act then we have a rule a request by industry to allow for offsite order entry for retail pharmacists dealing with retail pharmacies we have a section for emergency kit updates and the handling of kits also updating for Act637 of2025 to allow emergency kits to be used in certain medical
facilities we have a section for updating compounding rules to match national standards as well as to allow the sale of products from503B outsourcing facilities to503A facilities according to Act961 of2025 and then our final thing is we have some clean up language just to refer back to statute for the over the counter sale of pseudoephedrine and ephedrine products.'d be happy to answer any questions on any of those subsections. thank you thank you
Mr Kurtly members any questions Senator Boyd any questions members any questions no
all right seeing none without objection the rules approved reviewed and approved all right
moving to 14 Department of Health Arkansas State Medical Board. right if you'll introduce yourself for the record. Hello I'm
Speaker 191
43:42
Amyembmbry. I'm the director of the Arkansas State Medical Board.
you all right you are recognized to present Ru14a. OK, the first
Speaker 192
43:52
is rules governing physician assistants. This is amending 17 carart 140. This reduces the licensure requirements by removing letters of qualifications that also adds delegation authority per at437 of2025 and adds information regarding the Ppa compact per Act30 of2025 this mirrors the legislation and I'm happy to answer any questions thank you for the description. Members any
questions? see none without objection this
is reviewed and approved going to 14b.
Speaker 192
44:27
thank you Mr Chair. this is for the medical compact this is per Ac 269 of2025. this would be a new rule We received no public comments but I did have one comment from Bureau of Legislative Research. it was a question I did answer the question however it did not require any amendments to this proposed rule and I'll be happy to answer any questions you just say that again you received
the comments and it did not require an amendment correct he had a
Speaker 192
44:55
general question about rules regarding licensure in the state compared to licensure
required through the compact you right members any questions see none without objection the rules approved and reviewed thank you all right we are going to 15 a department of Healthboardard of examiners andpeech language pathology. thank you for being here today if you'll turn your microphone
on and introduce yourself for the record.
Speaker 97
45:27
good afternoon. I'm NathanielRowe, director of board of examiners andpeech language
Speaker 44
45:33
pathology and auudiology. thank you for being
Speaker 97
45:37
here Mr.Rowe. you're recognized to present 15 a OK these rule changes are in response to actct517 of2025 that expands the scope of practice for audiologists and Ac 966 of2025, which changes the rene
w al date from June30th each year to October31st. we received one public comment in regard to the date change the board reviewed that and decided to keep theoctober31st date instead of December31st. Why did
Speaker 198
46:15
they what was the description of their
Speaker 97
46:19
request to move the date? to align with the American speech pathology and audiology
associations renewal date but we decided that having another due date at year end when there's holidays and people aren't necessarily at work would be more confusing so thank you for the description. Members any questions? seeing none without objection the rule is reviewed and approved. thank you
thank you members going to 16 of Health state Board of Health
invited to the table thank you Mr Gilmore for your time welcome back gentlemen if
Julia Taylor
Unverified
47:16
you'll just turn your microphones on and introduce yourself again for the record. Thank you Mr Chair raig Smith attorney for the Arkansas Department of Health.
Speaker 64
47:30
Chuck Thompson attorney Arkansas department of Health. you're recognized to present 16 a thank you sir these rules are the amendments
Speaker 56
47:45
to the rules pertaining to radiologic technical technology licenger the amendments are to amend provisions regarding apprenticeships in compliance with Act695 of2025 as well as update qualifications for certain limited scope licenger training and creditioning requirements and provide for new limited scope licenger to meet
ongoing demands for radiological medical testing these were open for comment last day was February 17th 2 comments were received generally noting requesting changes that required a law change or notes that were unrelated to the current proposed amendments that will be reviewed for future promulgation. members you've
heard the description any questions? see none without
objection it's reviewed and approved 16b thank you sir. these rules are
Speaker 64
48:31
the amendments for the rules for massage therapy in Arkansas the proposed amendments to the existing rule
Speaker 56
48:39
are to implement changes pursuant to Act267 regarding the massage therapy compact44 regarding the posting of a national human traffickingo hotline poster and Act629 regarding registration of establishments as well as minor changes regarding minimum terms for revocation for sexual offenses his roles were open for public comment. Last day was
March 2nd. 3 comments were received generally notes that cannot be change d by rule and
require a law change. thank you for the description and thank you for this rule. I
love this rule. we have Senator Rice you are recognized for a
Senator Terry Rice
Unverified
49:16
question whoops sorry let me there don't have a problem with with the rule and and what it does inspection and and so
on but while you're at the table can you tell me since the legislature has turned over the basically the
oversight for the massage therapy in Arkansas to an out of state entity that has interests interstate authority have you received any more negatives or
concerns I have not heard back anything since that legislation went through thank you senatorice thank you for
Speaker 71
49:55
that for that question and I know there was some some discussion and some legislation last session we haven't had any any concerns or
complaints to the department directly regarding regarding what you're referring to I do know that there in other states there are other states do have you know state tests as opposed to a national test option so the department is always open to whatever the legislature's deems fit that it wants to do but right now we haven't had anything any complaints or anything negative directly sent to us since last session thank you for that thank you Mr Chair. thank you senator members any other questions
seeing none again thank you for this rule. I think
what keeps Arkansas safer and more proud to see this move forward so without objection this rule is reviewed and approved
Speaker 64
50:49
16C these proposed amendments are the rules to or the new rules pertaining to community health
Speaker 56
50:55
workers these rules are enacted regarding the certification of community health workers in Arkansas pursuant to Act435. these rules were open for public comment and and last day was March 10th.hree
comments were received. generally these comments regarded the scope of practice which requires a law change and cannot be addressed by the rule. these were as what the others reviewed without objection by a joint public health thank you for
the description members any questions for sixC? seeing none without
objection this rule is reviewed and approved 16d thank you sir
Speaker 64
51:30
these proposed new rules or the rules pertaining to doula certification
Speaker 56
51:39
apologize in a similar questionion these rules were proposed to enact certification of community-based doulas in Arkansas pursuant to Act965, public comment was open and and last day we received comments were March 10th.re comments were received generally positive comments in support of the act and the rules these rules have been reviewed without objection by joint public health. thank you for the description members any questions for sixd
none without objection this is reviewed and
Speaker 56
52:15
approved 16e yes sir the last rule here the proposed amendments for the rules for cosmetology and body art in Arkansas the proposed amendments are to comply with Act44 regarding the posting of the national humanmantrafficking Resource hotline as well as minor changes regarding wapot safety and the addition of body art modalities after the initial licensure his roles were open for public comment and last day was March 23rd and no
comments were received. These these rules have been approved reviewed without objection by joint public healthal thank you for your description
again thank you for the safety precautions around human trafficking with this rule. members any questions see none without
objection this rule is reviewed and approved. thank you again for being here thank you all alright members we're going to 17 as a reminder we're going 17 through 21 then we'll circle back to3,2 and 1. so we're on 17 Department of laborbor and licensing
Julia Taylor
Unverified
53:15
right you're invited to the table turn your microphone on please and introduce yourself
Dan Parker
Unverified
53:28
for the record. Thank you Mr Chair I'm Dan Parker, chief legal counsel for the department of Labor
Speaker 218
53:34
and licensing I'm Ralph hudson director of the
Speaker 87
53:37
division of laborbor thank you gentlemen for being here you are recognized to present
Dan Parker
Unverified
53:42
17 a yes these are the rules that are required to the Arkansas minimum
Wage Act rules to implement three separate acts that were overwhelmingly passed by the both chambers of the general assembly Act743 for both well for unemployment workers' comp and Arkansas minimum wage and our act purposes replace the twentyfactor test for determining whether a person was an employee or an independent contractor with the federal
act so we're all consistent now with the federal standard for making that determination in practice I don't believe it really changes a whole lot because the the determining factor really centers around how much control the employer or has over the activities of the employee versus the independent contractor actct397 made hopeful reforms to how wage and our claims are investigated by our office and
adjudicated and then att737 was an act that clarified since transformation the authority of the secretary of the department of laborbor over all of our boards and commissions including the division of laborbor and then we also made any technico or grammatical or stylistic changes that to conform with the bureau drafting standards and no public comments were received to any of the rule
changes and we'll be happy to answer any questions thank you for the description members any questions for 17 a minimum wage rules see none without objection the rules reviewed and approved. you can present 17b please thank you 17b is thank you for being here Members were
thank you for being here if you'll introduce yourself, turn
Speaker 223
55:56
your microphone on introduce yourself for the record.
Speaker 224
56:00
Lacey Kirchner counsel for the department of laborbor andliccensing. Lindsey Moore,
director of code enforcement Arkansas Department of
Speaker 225
56:06
Labor andliccensing thank you for being here. You recognized to present 17B. today we're here to present the boiler rules for they were a result of Act746 of2025. it compacts down it's slims the the whole real content
overall and gives a cleaner easier to comply version with for the regulated community it being the inspectors or being the the owners business owners with that I'll be happy to take any questions
thank you for the description members you've heard 17B any questions? see none without objection the rule is reviewed and
proved. thank you thank you right we're going to
18 this is Arkansas motor Vehicle Commission
Miss Kirchner, you don't need to recognize yourself again introduce yourself again
John Clay
Unverified
57:01
all right welcome to the table if you'll introduce
Speaker 230
57:06
yourself for the record Danielpace, director of the Arkansas Motor Vehicle
Commission Department of laborbor and licensing. Welcome. thank you you guys are both
Speaker 223
57:16
recognized to present 18 a and members this rule change is in compliance with Act233 of2025 in regards to service and parts requirements for all new A TVv
and LSV dealers and we are happy to answer
description members any questions for 18 a this is on page 92 right seeing none without objection this is reviewed and approved. thank you so much for being here our members we're
going to 1919 a this competitive wrestling
we may have to follow Dc and put a ring out in front of our
capitol see what it looks like all right welcome
Dan Parker
Unverified
58:13
back to the table if you introduce yourself again for
Speaker 218
58:16
the record thank you Mr Chair and these rules will help you with that these arehudson department of
Dan Parker
Unverified
58:23
laborbor and licensing division of laborboorrector and I'm soann Parker the chief legal counsel of the department of laborbor and licensing these are the rules that are required to implement Act947 of2025 concerning the regulation of
professional wrestling events which have a audience attendance of 1500 or more participants the larger professional wrestling events in the state and this regulates the licensing procedures and the conduct of the event itself and the participants and I'll be happy to answer any questions thank you for the description members any questions for 19 a in
all seriousness Mr. Parker, I do have a question so
there does appear to be a lot of fees and licensing and commissions5% commission on the toll
to to back to the commission could you just describe what all was involved with the fee structure and maybe what
Dan Parker
Unverified
59:23
that goes to yeah those are all consistent with the existing fees for participants and other combative sports there's a history to wrestling regulation in this state it was regulated at one time then it was considered
exempt now the last general assembly brought it back again. The fee structure remained largely the same it's the same similar fees the promoters still say that pay the same fees for their promoter's license and for the event fee and then the participants all pay a similar fee because for professional wrestling a person may be in the ring for one event they may be doing a different
type of service I guess for a different event so we're just charging a participant licensing fee for anybody that might serve as a cornerman or refer a riggy announcer a wrestler whatever the case may be understood
Speaker 234
1:00:23
thank you for that description I have a question I'll recognize Representative gonzalez. thing this year was
Representative Justin Gonzales
Unverified
1:00:30
wrestling exempted because it it's a more of an act and not really a sport yeah that's kind of the
Dan Parker
Unverified
1:00:40
debate and then from our standpoint wes we're more concerned about the safety of the combatants so or actors or actors you know even actors but still you know I'll be honest our preference would be that all wrestling events so we can just provide for the public safety not only of the participants but also the people that are in those first few rows you know if if I had my preference I'd regulate all professional wrestling as
just like we do all the other
combative sports thank you members any other questions see none this rule is reviewed and approved without objection. Thank you. you right thank you
to 20 department of laborbor and licensing state board of appraisers you're welcome to join the table.
right if you'll turn your microphone on and introduce
Speaker 223
1:01:44
yourself for the record please. Lacey Kirchner, counsel for
Speaker 241
1:01:50
the department of laborbor and licensing. Diana Pioskki I'm the director of the state boardard of appraisers abbstractors and homeme inspectors at the department of
Speaker 242
1:01:59
laborbor andliccensing. Scott McKennon, chairman of the board of the prasers abstractors and home inspectors thank you
for being here welcome you are recognized to present 2 A.embers this is on page 95
Speaker 243
1:02:12
thank you. these rules are to comply with changes made byxcts 949 and 974 of2025 and changes made to the real property appraiser qualification criteria by the appraiser qualifications Board under Title levin of the Financialstitutionsreform, recovery and Enforcement Act. these were out put out for public comment which we received no public comments
Speaker 241
1:02:34
and with that we're happy to answer any questions. thank you for the description members any
questions for rule twentyA See none. thank you for being here without objection the rule is reviewed and approved. thank you. our members 21a Department of Military thank you for being here
if you will turn your microphone on and introduce yourself for the record.
Speaker 247
1:03:15
I'm Bryan Christian chief legal counsel for the
Speaker 249
1:03:20
Arkansas department of the Military Lieutenant Colonel Eric Scarborough, the recruiting and retention
Speaker 250
1:03:26
battalion commander for the Arkansas Army National Guard. Lieutenant Colonel Janice Copeland, the
commander for the Arkansas Air National Guard recruiting
Speaker 251
1:03:36
and retention. thank you for being here you're recognized to present 21a
Speaker 252
1:03:40
21a is is setting up rule 12 part 133 in relation to Act575 of2025
this rule creates a public private partnership program that is authorized under the code enables the department to accept voluntary services goods and support from private and nonprofit partners in order to strengthen the national guard recruiting and retention back in the answer any questions if you have them thank you for
the description members any questions for 21 a
See none at the without objection the rules are reviewed
Speaker 251
1:04:28
and approved. You can go to 21B yes sir 1B is amending 12 CRar 132 under the statutory
Speaker 252
1:04:36
authority for the adjutant general to to make rules and it is modifying an existing program the joint enlistment enhancementgrame and this adds some targeted incentives to some critical areas to maintain force strength
and so we're allowing some assistant incentives some recruiting overproduction ass incentives and some officer commissioning incentives and I can answer any questions if you have any thank you for the description members
any questions for 21B? I see Senator Irvin you
are recognized thank you. I'm right here in front of
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
1:05:19
you. Hi, thanks and I apologize Mr Chair just a question actually on the first
one does that require y'all to have a foundation or anything like that or are you able just to accept those funds under your current just agency we would be able to accept
Speaker 258
1:05:36
them under the current agency yeah there's and there's guidelines involved for reporting and all of that yeah I know we had kind
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
1:05:42
of went through a few things there previously with some of that stuff so OK, good. that's why I just needed to know that makes it more simple. thank you ma'am thank you Mr Chair. members any other questions
on 21B I would just love to hear about the recruiting efforts and and how you believe this will help us or where we stand today how do we compare to maybe other states
if we get a description on that so I
Speaker 248
1:06:14
could speak for the army National Guard so recruiting efforts are going well as the last couple of years that's always you know can change in a in a moment's notice you know with different things around the you know outside environment
that can affect that so this would allow for the you know the adjutant general to incentivize the the recruiting force in terms of you know maybe some areas are doing better than others other parts of the state and if a recruiter was given a a certain number to recruit to it would incentivize them to produce more for the state which would enhance, you know, the readiness of the the unit that they're putting those in morere soldiers in the you know the more benefit for the state to be able to support the state and federal missions and
I I guess I want to make sure I understand which bucket of
Speaker 258
1:07:05
funds does this come come out of so there's a there's a an amount that's currently allocated for that and
Speaker 252
1:07:12
we don't anticipate there being any more that would be required to come out of that. I think our budget is about550,000 and to date we've used a little more than75,000 of that and so we have a significant amount still available that we can use toward this program thank you for the description.
yes sir. members any other questions see none without objection this rule is reviewed and approved.
Thank you again for being here thank you members we're going back to the top of the
agenda we're going to invite the Department of Education to the table we'll go3, then 2, then 1.
right thank you for being here if you'll turn
Speaker 268
1:08:13
your microphones on and introduce yourself for the
record. good afternoon Courtney Salisfod Department of Education. Ken
Warden commissioner at Arkansas division of higher education
thank you for being here you're recognized
Speaker 268
1:08:26
to present 3 a right so the first rules are the Arkansas academic challengellenge scholarship. these were revised to implement changes from the Access Act, Act341 of2025. primary purpose for some of these changes was to increase the
award amount from $1000 to2,000 dollars for freshman. um, those funds can also be used as long as they have not reached the twentyseh semester credit hours. public comment period was held from March 1st to March30th public comment hearing no public comments were received and the higher ed coordinating board gave final approval on April24th and I'm happy to answer any questions
you Miss Sasfod.embers any questions on3 a? we're on page nine
all right seeing none without objection this rules
Speaker 268
1:09:19
are reviewed and approved3B right the next rules are governing the Arkansas workforce challengellenge scholarship also changes made because of the Access Act Act341 of2025 and Act429 of2025. um, some of them primary changes with these or that the award amounts are now determined by programme cost, workforce demands, credentials of value and projected wages. the maximum award per academic year
is the lesser of the program cost or a maximum of3,000 dollars. Public comment period was from March 1st to March30th hearing held on March 20th, no public comments received and approval by higher ed coordinating boardard in April. thank you for
the description members any questions for three none
without objection the rule is reviewed and approved. You can go to3C please. All
Speaker 268
1:10:12
right. the rules governing residency classification for state funded
scholarships so this was part of an effort to create some consistency and uniformity in how scholarships are awarded or eligibility is determined so we saw that some of them had different residency requirements so these were put into place also in compliance with Act341 of2025 to again create that uniform residency require ment which we set at six months across all scholarships there may still be some scholarships that have very specific things eligibility requirements in
statute but unless there there are otherwise specified specifics this six month requirement applies to all state funded scholarships. um, same public comment period March 1st to March30th hearing on March 20th no comments were received and final approval on April24th. thank you
for the description. M members any
questions for3C? see none without objection. It is reviewed and approved red the rules
Speaker 268
1:11:14
governing the teacher opportunity program, another
piece of legislation Act341 which allows pers perspective teachers to get that tuition and fees is it reimbursed or prepaid? top yeah OK. sorry pause apologize for
Speaker 268
1:11:37
pay the cost of tuition and fees it may be a reimbursement. but that those fees are covered if they are seeking to become a teacher, um, public
comment period March 13th to April12th hearing on March 20th no public comments received and final approval on April24th. thank you
Speaker 280
1:11:59
' m just looking through it as well.
Yeah. members any questions on3d seeing none without objection the rules reviewed and approved3
Speaker 268
1:12:16
e all right. the teacher academy scholarship programme very
similar. this one is a covers tuition and fees for up to 60 academic hours or completion for a two-year program, and 120 academic hours for the fouryear program we all know we have a teacher shortage we want to do what we can to encourage and allow for additional teachers in the market so hopefully this will help encourage many more teachers many more students to go and become teachers.ublic comment period March 13th to April1el hearing on March 20th,
no comments were received and final approval on
April24th. thank you for the description members any questions
as a reminder this is all related to the Arkansas Access Act and implementation
therefore all right seeing no questions without objection the rule is reviewed and
Speaker 268
1:13:14
approved3F right the rules governing uniform course credit for institutions of higher education. um, as the chair stated,
changes needed because of the Access Act as well as the Learns Act Act237 of2023 which put a better emphasis on making sure students in K-12 and high school specifically have higher higher ed opportunities accelerated opportunities. so the definition for accelerated learning was put into these rules as well as cleaning up some references to commissioner and and the division of higher education,
this is to align with again some of the accelerated opportunities in in high school and even in some in middle schools and junior highs and public comment period was March 13th to April12th hearing March 20th no comments were received and final approval on April24th. thank
you for the description members any questions for three
see none without objection the rules
Speaker 268
1:14:21
were reviewed and approved3g right3g access to
acceleration scholarship programme. so this was primarily a result of the Access Act and replaces the previous Arkansas concurrent Challen scholarship program which allowed students in high school to use these funds to pay for concredit opportunities. Well through learns and through Access we have made it so that there's a uniform rate for concurrent credit between the high school and the college and we because we are encouraging more students to take concurrent credit in high
school we wanted to make sure that they could still access funding that was va would have been available to them once they got to college. so it's kind of like they're taking their first year of academic challenge while they're in high school. the so we're calling it the access to acceleration scholarship. it cannot exceed $2000 which would have been their first year amount under academic challenge, public comment period was March 13th to April12th hearing on March 20th, no comments were received and final approval on
April24th. just for clarity this replaces the challenge scholarship it replaces the concurrent
challenge academic challenge is still in place perfect thank
you for the clarity members any questions seeing none without objection the rules were reviewed and
Speaker 268
1:15:47
approved.3h and finally the rules governing the graduate medical education expansion boardard. These were changes required by Act 196 of2025.
prior to the the legislation there were some limitations for the board to provide grant funding to eligible medical education programs so amendments were necessary to address some of those issues the public comment period was April5th to May5th hearing on April23, no public comments were received and final approval on May twentyeh. thank you members you've heard the description of
three h any questions? see none without a without
objection the rule is reviewed and approved thank you all right members we are now moving to number 2A on your agenda invite Department of Education to the table division of elementary and secondary education Salsford you don't need to reinduce yourself but if our new members could introduce themselves for the record please Daniel Schultz counsel for the department
Darrylsmith Department of Education. thank you for being here. you are
recognized to present rule 2a. right the rules governing the Arkansas childrenldren's Educational Freedomccount programme
Speaker 268
1:17:17
were revised to incorporate Act920 of2025 as well as put into place some additional guardrails to ensure responsible spending of taxpayer funds and to make sure as many funds as possible are made available to the families through the EFA program and most
importantly to help clear up some confusion and ambiguity that was in previous rules. I'm gonna go a little bit more into depth on these than I I typically do because I think there were some very key revisions made that I think are important. So one of those is that we added a definition for core educational expenses and this is so that families can quickly purchase goods and services that are primarily instructional in nature and directly necessary for a student's education so things that you would typically think
about as educational such as textbooks, workbooks, curriculum, pens, paper, digital learning resources, tuition fees assessments and importantly special education services and they can quickly purchase these without having to wait for any preapproval from the department which will hopefully save a lot of time for parents and make it sure that they understand that they can purchase those without having to get that preapproval. Another amendment was to the
definition of extracurricular activity limiting the use of funds for sports that restrict or limit participation based on student ability. this does not mean that if a sport requires tryouts or an evaluation for placement that they are prohibited it's only for sports that will deny students access because of their ability. So if every kid tries out and every kid is put on a team and they try to even it out based on ability that is fine. However, if they are one of the
more elite sports teams that not every student who tries out and makes it then that is prohibited from using EFA funds as are equipment and travel expenses like hotels or mileage or food. Any dues or fees for community or homeschool sports leagues are specifically permitted because again they do not restrict or prohibit participation because of a student's ability. and a definition of intentional
misuse was added to clarify that to disqualify a student or family from participation the violation has to be deliberate if a parent willfully and intentionally steals or misuses funds yes we want to be able to disqualify them. However, if it is a simple mistake or an error due to misreading, misunderstanding and when we contact and inform the parent they cooperate they will not be dis qu al ified This is for intentional, willful acts
Additional clarification was added to specify that telephones and cellphones are not permitted unless they are specific to a student with a disability because of a tech communication need and that repeated technology purchases would be thoroughly reviewed to determine whether they were necessary. something that we heard several times in this committee was about laptops and other technology being purchased year after year so we did add in a provision that if we are seeing the same type of purchase on a
consistent regular basis. we will look at that and determine if it's necessary. Further any technology purchases over $1000 will require additional justification. The maximum amount that a family is permitted to carry over to a subsequent year was set at $8500 to insure unused funds are made available to additional families and not being held in accounts for multiple years. We want to make sure that every dollar available is going back out to
families and students and so that amount again was set at $8500 which is just above the current amount of the scholarship. a very clear process was put in place for requesting reconsideration of a denied expense including multiple reviews at multiple levels within the agency. obviously we have a lot of staff that is reviewing thousands upon thousands of requests every day there was some concern about the
subjectivity in and review and so we have added that process so that for any reason that a expense is denied we will provide written just a written explanation of that and then the parent can still request reconsideration at multiple levels. and finally definitions and criteria for ordinary and necessary expenses were added so that families would know how the department makes determinations on whether an expense that is not a core educational expense
is permitted or not. We did our best, made our best effort to make it clear in here how we are reviewing expenses which expenses are automatically approved or those that are core educational expenses that don't require preapproval and which are going to require further justification, further review by the department. The primary purpose for these revisions is to provide clarity for parents to avoid confusion and to streamline and expedite the process for purchasing core educational expenses.
o public comment period at4 public comment hearings were held two30day public comment periods were provided to allow time for stakeholders to provide comments. All481 comments were reviewed and considered by the departmentever changes were made as a result of public comments received and the state board gave final approval in April and we are asking for approval of these rules which will take and to go into effect on July 1 prior to the beginning of the school year
and for new accounts so there is nothing in this that will be proactively held against a student who's already in the program, but starting July 1 all parents and students will know what the requirements are and can go on with use of their EFA account from that period and I am happy to answer any questions. thank you for the description.
I know this is a a heavy a heavy ro with lots of
moving pieces and and coming off of a large piece of legislation that
we've we've passed in the last few years so thank you for your heavy work on that just one question to kick us off it seems to me this is one of the larger public comment receiving rules that I've seen in in my team here is this the largest amount of public comment you've received on a rule that you've you've passed or tried to pass you know I'm
Speaker 290
1:24:08
I've been as a department for 16 years and I think there might have been
Speaker 268
1:24:13
one other that that got more maybe two but certainly within
the most recent few years I think
it's definitely the most. thank you all right we've got some members with questions Senator Hammer you're recognized
or a question thank you. I know there's an appeal process but one thing caught my interest in what you said about determination of whether it was a simple mistake intentional or you know, deliberate. Tell me about the safeguards in place to make sure and who makes the determination because that's pretty vague language when you are you know calling somebody to task over you know usage of the
money just talk about that for a minute would you right so I'll give some
Speaker 268
1:24:56
general information and then if you want more specific Doctorsmith can can address that but if through review of of an account we observe something that looks odd or again there's some repetitiveness or documentation doesn't look right we will reach out and contact the parent and ask them for clarification or more clear documentation, additional justification. Most of the time they're going to provide that
and then the expense can possibly be approved or we we might go ahead and deny that again. if we are suspecting that a a parent is intentionally and willfully violating the the program they're entitled to due process and so there will be additional requests on top of that ultimately it would be the secretary's decision whether that person was disqualified or not.
as far you know like public schools have to go through legislative audit, you know, coming from
the auditing process and everything if you if you determine that there's been misuse of the funds does the department have any authority to turn that over for legal prosecution or they're just simply disqualified now and
Speaker 268
1:26:10
counsel reminded me that there is also the opportunity even after the secretary decides that the parent can't appeal to the state board. but yes, if
we found a case where we felt like state taxpayer funds were fraudulently spent. we would refer that over to the prosecuting
attorney. and one other question I know you got a lot of people in cu so I'll
go back in on the talk about the sports equipment that seems to be a hot topic among the rules. Talk about the rationalism behind
Speaker 268
1:26:43
your approach to the to the rule. right so the purpose of theation freedomccount programme is to offer an alternative educational
experience for students whose parents feel like the public school is not the best option for them. For some parents and students that's going to be a private school for many parents and students that's going to be homeschool. I don't think anyone would disagree that activity, physical activity and sports are beneficial to students just like they're beneficial to public school students and many public schools and private schools offer sports programs that are included. It's the about the instruction it's about learning teamwork. However,
Speaker 301
1:27:22
there are then other additional layers and more elite sports at which those are not provided at public schools. those are not provide d at private schools. Typically those are
Speaker 268
1:27:33
your elite summer traveling teams and again we're not trying to make it exactly like being in public school or private school but we're also not trying to put a focus on things that are not core academic expenses. we feel like we've left enough leeway in there so again, students can participate in some
of the local teams they can go to the public school and play on that team. but looking at what is the intent of the program and the most effective use of funds we felt like those the equipment, the travel fees again such as hotels and mileage and meals I don't know about you but my kids played sports and bats are several $100 along with gloves and other things and so we just didn't feel that that was the best use of the EFA funds.
all right, I'll yield and get back to you. Thank you Mr Chair you Senator Representative Bentley, you are recognized thank you
Representative Mary Bentley
Unverified
1:28:31
chairman thank you so much and I think it was very much needed to have some clarification on there so just real quick, where do parents go to find these rules and so they can make sure they're complying with the rules
Speaker 290
1:28:43
where they go. they're on our website I can probably So specificallyd ESE.
Speaker 268
1:28:57
Ad dotarkansas.gov and then we have a page where all of our rules that are out for public comment are posted obviously they could still also just contact the department and we could email them to them or provide a hard copy. Great. quick follow
Speaker 307
1:29:09
up chairman if that's OK. so tell me just real quick what's the process
Representative Mary Bentley
Unverified
1:29:14
of someone's found you find the parents maybe it's those are errant they should not have spent that money on that so can you just go over real quick the the process of what happens to that parent do you want to talk about
thank you yeah so the process basically is as as we go through the the the typical monitoring typical review of of a of a particular of expenses if things begin to flag we see something that looks that suspected or just looks a little unusual that will prompt a review so the first thing we'll ask the parent we'll look at that and sayy there's some things that look a little odd here could you help us explain them and so we'll ask for you know some more justification of why those particular expenses were submitted at that point if it continues to look like there's just we're just things don' t still add up exactly right we
will go through our own documentation period we'll continue an interview we'll continue just the process of gathering data looking at severity frequency of of what it was the nature of what it is that's being happened and at that point take the all the data in aggregate and look and determine if it was an intentional or unintentional misuse of funds if we feel like there was any misuse at all so the parents have the opportunity to pay back
Representative Mary Bentley
Unverified
1:30:23
the funds if they're fine and error they have an opportunity to pay back and continue in the program absolutely so
especially if they're found to be un it's
supposed to be unintentional that is one of
Speaker 313
1:30:33
the options there so it's a warning letter and a deposit you know paying back the thing and get back in good standing
Representative Mary Bentley
Unverified
1:30:40
in the program and one final question chairman. so just to clarify for me, so parents can buy sports equipment for students as long as it's not an elite, it's not participating in elite forcecs there are no longer any purchase of sports equipment period. I'm just trying to clarify that No, there's no sports
Speaker 284
1:30:55
equipment and and perhaps that was a bad example on my part but no it's the restriction is to all
Speaker 268
1:31:03
sports equipment in addition to any fees or registration associated with some
Speaker 315
1:31:08
of those elite teams. OK, just clarifying thank
you very much. thank you chairman corrupsenator dotson you're recognized for
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
1:31:17
a question thank you Mr Chair. I have a few different areas of question
regarding this rule but I'll start off with the related to the technology the 1,0an0 dollars limit per student per year
it seems that as I'm reading through the rule that it if it's a justified expense that exceeds $1000 for that technology that is something that can be appealed or or approved I guess preapproved by the department if it does exceed that cap for the for the year is that correct?
yes sir with the correct documentation and justification for that absolutely
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
1:31:58
ok but it just has to be preapproved and so the other thing just in that
category is is the technology considered a core expense so it wouldn't have to have preapproval for anything up to $1000 Actually I think the rules state that
it's a required review and so all technologies were reviewed because we we're going to review for appropriateness and need so we want to make sure that it's age appropriate developmentally appropriate and it fits the alignment with the student's academic programme so it
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
1:32:28
doesn't matter if it's qualifying expense the department's going to review every single technology expense in that category as the rule is written yes sir
that sounds like a lot of bureaucratic oversight I'll get back in the queue for other questions. thank
you thank you senator Mrsmith just remind me what does the F stand for in EFA accounts? freedom so I thought ok, Senator Irving
you're recognized for a question thank you Mister
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
1:32:56
Chair. thank you for your work on this. just a couple of things I've had a lot of contact. I appreciate everybody that's made comments and I've I've talked to several
people they're so grateful for the uhation freedomc accounts and a lot of folks that are homeschooling their kids are really appreciate what we've done appreciate the EFA so I really appreciate their their feedback to me. A couple different things I know just outside of what the primary criticisms that you've heard but just one of the things that just talk through this with me on provider credential
the credential credentialing of anybody who's student facing how how will that be determined and if they're not an Arkansas hold a teacher's license or have I guess whatever the appropriate credential credentials are how would how would that expertise be considered as a for credentialing of that person by the department
to reiterate the F inducation freedomc account the idea between you know when we're looking at providers we want to give a homeschool family or others that are providing services to our to the EFA participants the greatest amount of freedom that we can to provide the education environment that they'd like so we we also want to make sure that our kids are getting the best education possible but as a parent directed school choice type program we want to make sure that also parents have the ability to choose those that they feel qualified to
teach their students and so given that what we want to do is we ask for the provider's qualifications like what it's also from the parent what makes you think that this person is going to be a good fit to teach your child whatever the program or educational part of that is and then we do there's a couple of things that we're gonna make sure they have a background check and make sure there's some safety and those types of things are are involved in that vendor in that process for selecting participants for that and and I'm absolutely for the
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
1:35:11
background checks and making sure that we have that safety one of my the reason I'm asking that question is for folks particularly in rural Arkansas you know we have a program called Music roots that goes through the ark the public school there in Mountainview
school district and the instructors most likely are just really amazing musicians and so I guess it would be a subjective you know they have clearly more than3 years of expert ise and playing the banjo or the
fiddle or whatever and so that would be a qualified person they would be credentialed OK Sa with like a farmer like agriculturally. somebody who is like had a cattle farm for all these years could provide instruction in agricultural education that would be somebody like that would
be considered OK thank you for that call I I think we just needed to ask these questions so that folks that are homeschooling their children
and that are providing them more of a
freedom approach of education outside of a public school institution has that flexibility and ability and I that's what I want for them as well so I think that was just a good question that they had on credentialing and what credentialing means and how that would affect their ability to kind of design those programs for their kids and then aggation like if it's agriculture education is would that's not core education, right?
so are you well I think it'd have to depends on how the how the course was designed
and so I think that could be either or
it could be either or as it regards to like purchases related to ag agricultural education I think that's a tricky area to be frank. like I think when that may be require a little sub like not everything's going to be super like a textbook or whatever something's right I mean we're not going to go and buy a brand
new horse trailer for somebody either. do you know what I mean, I think there's got to be just be some discussion here that's what I'm
Speaker 268
1:37:20
trying to get at. right and I would say because it's not as much about the the subject like you said agriculture or or even math. it's more about what it is that you're purchasing if it's a curriculum to teach agriculture to teach about the you know biology or environmental science that's going to be a quali core qualifying expense because it's curriculum it's a textbook it's a computer program but if you are wanting to go out
and purchase the materials to build a chicken coop or to your example things related to equestrian and you know teachings there is going to be an added layer of review put on that and because we want parents and we want students to have the freedom to choose the educational environment that is best for them but there still has to be some responsibility and safeguards put on thisbiing of taxpayer funds just like we hold public schools accountable and responsible for how they spend their funding.
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
1:38:15
so like like a microscope would be a core purchase like for science or whatever purchasing a
Speaker 268
1:38:23
microscope or whatever we would consider that to be one that required additional review and just again for example because we have seen requests for purchasing a $200 telescope and a5,000 dollars telescope and so we especially with something of that
amount are are going to look at those with additional review I was
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
1:38:40
talking about a microscope but I guess telescope telescope same with microscopes
there's a varying levels a big level no I think that's just good helpful dialogue and discussion to have and then the last one that I just wanted to talk about which I think something that perhaps two things perhaps we could address with our vendor is the marketplace I'veh I've heard some, you know you have your qualified vendors that are kind of these big corporations out of state folks that are that are easier. I just want to make sure Arkansas small businesses particularly in rural areas of
the state aren't overly burdened by making the list so to speak as a qualified vendor just so that we can make sure that our instate businesses and our small businesses can also participate. I'm not sure if you want to address that or not I don't think it's necessarily something that has to require a rule change but I do think it's a a fair point and something that I would like to look at
because I know it's easy for you know like a you know a big corporation or whatever just like target. let's just you knowarget's probably a prequalified vendor because that's where you go and buy school supplies. However, you may also be able to buy some school supplies that you know becca's and downtown wherever too. So just talk to me about that process and that we can make sure that rural small businesses in the state of Arkansas also
have the ability to kind of be a part of this
marketplace absolutely and and we want that right we want our families to have as many choices for vendors as we possibly can get into the into the class wall at you know universe and there I think there's a little bit of maybe just maybe a little bit of clarification here so marketplace to your point is the bigger store it's the best buys and the you know and the targets and the office depots and those types of groups and then there's this direct pay which is where a lot of those vendors that you're talking about would fit OK. the class wallet platform made it a little
bit challenging this year for some of those vendors to get in because of the the the direct pay process we've been working with them over these last few months to really try to improve that process to make it more amenable to for businesses to get into the program and make that process of the way that they invoice and the way that they get the you know and the way parents connect to them making that a much more streamlined process because we realize it's been it was very cumbersome this year for a lot of small businesses to be a part of so we believe that we're
gonna work on that and and we have some solutions to make that a much better system for our
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
1:41:32
for our small businesses coming up that's great to hear because you definitely don't want you know out of state companies to have more of an advantage than instate companies or small businesses in the state I'm always trying to and I thought that was a really good point that this one person brought up to me personally and the last thing is I would love to work with Coswallet to make sure that we're advertising our taxfree weekend. you know we have a back to school taxfree
weekend. so let's make sure that this vendor is really promoting that as the opportunity for to extend those education freedom dollars more by taking advantage of that weekend and I'm sure that they could probably figure out a way to advertise that on that platform we can certainly take care of that those are thank you for my questions thank yousenator and members
as a reminder we do have some folks in the crowd today
have signed up to speak for it against today's rule and so we will let that happen there's 13 signed up to speak
we'll let everyone who wants to speak speak we will hold that to without objection a minute each about a minute each and we'll get to that soon just so you know what's coming and you'll be able to hear from others as well so let's get back to the questions Senator Rice you're recognized for a question thank
Senator Terry Rice
Unverified
1:42:54
you Mrir you answered what I was going to ask was the
public gonna get to speak and I I'll just say from me as a member of this committee a minute is not enough if if you want to if we can't get more than 13 minutes to this it it's that's just not enough'm definitely open to changing that would appreciate your reconsideration on that again actually you may not give all of them five minutes but caution them and and tell them we can cut it off anytime but I mean people that come down here deserve more than
that. I appreciate that let me ask people at the table this is stuff beyond me. I looked at 1 deal778 pages amm I right I don't know how I can be expected to understand all of it and and there's people and it's elected here that probably can but I know the public struggles with it too and when I hear freedom from government that that to me is
kind of oxymoron I'm not slapping at y'all and you did say you would do as much as you could. I appreciate you qualifying that a while ago when you spoke to it but is there anything in the rules in these four public hearings that that y'all talked about that you let people know that you're not going to be a stringent on even though it's a rule you may not be as stringent on or you're gonna be trying to work with or
are we just going to be have a hammering and and use it everywhere we can I know there's some stuff needs to be changed I hear all the time and that's that's I just talked to people and the ones that are doing it right are excelling in doing right and there's some that's working the system and the kids are not benefiting they're actually getting hurt and I understand that can you tell me that that y'all can be
give it enough attention and be flexible enough or you're just gonna say we don't have enough time and here's the ruling you can appeal it if you want to do you feel like you've got a process that
people can have a voice yes senator we we feel very confident in our process. Yes, there
Speaker 268
1:45:20
is oversight. there has to be oversight anytime you're spending taxpayer funds and I would venture to say that for the majority of participants they're never going to have a problem they're never going to have an issue they're never
going to need to contact our office. However, because we do want to ensure we are spending these funds appropriately if there are things that are outside of your ordinary core educational expenses that we are going to contact that parent and question them. we have several staff members that speak to participants every day and we may not be able to get back to them the same day but we definitely will get back to them. Again we've added in
additional processes to request review if there's a denial when we say review on the front end it I think that even it is sounds a little bit more restrictful than it is through the class wallet system every single request to to spend funds comes before one of our staff members and for the majority of those items the the curriculum, the textbooks, the reasonable technology that staff member is going to click approve and it's
going to go on but that's considered a review. If they see something that is exceptionally high in price if they see that this is the fifth laptop that a parent has bought if they see that the the parent is trying to pay themselves. that's going to prompt them to ask additional questions. We don't typically just automatically deny something unless it is you know, trying to buy a car. Um, however if we contact the parent they provide additional information.
there is lots of back and forth they can ask questions, they can submit additional documentation they can try to provide justification so we certainly even throughout this process want parents and families to have opportunities to explain and to provide that additional justification duringring the the four public comment hearings and the 60 dayy public comment period I'll I'll look at these gentlemen to disagree with me but I would say that the majority of the comments were
about the sports and and that is not everyone is going to agree with the decisions that the department is making. However, that those are decisions that we felt were the best use of the funds and to
make as many of the funds available to additional students for core educational
expenses as appropriate. appreciate your comments on that and and Mr chairir I again you're you're the chair
Senator Terry Rice
Unverified
1:48:01
and it's your call but if if remind people to be concise and not
repeat but there may be some need3 to5 minutes and there may be some that only need a minute and it's up to them but it'll get cut off if if they abuse it so it's
up to you I'd appreciate a little more
time. I appreciate that senator. Senator hammer you're recognized for a question thank you
first of all how many people do you have in the office that
are dedicated to handling the calls and giving the parents a timely response to their questions when they call. so the number does fluctuate
Speaker 268
1:48:39
we have around 10 dedicated staff that are there at all times. However, anytime we start to see an increase in volume or we see that wait times are taking longer we will pull staff from other offices and provide additional support. and then as far as the number of pills that you handled
since this went into place. Any idea about how many you've handled and you know how many you're currently dealing with right now well I can't give you an exact number at this time but I will I
will tell you that every appeal is handled appropriately so I can tell you that we have we have dealt with appeals typically our appeals aren't necessarily based upon an eligible expense it's really more a more of a technical appeal a a receipt that wasn't elegible right so it was fuzzy or a certain information wasn't on there that we needed to verify whether it was a paid receipt or something for a reimbursement so most of our appeals are usually
technical appeals the ones that we do have that go through our process they are reviewed again go to that same process that we've discussed here multiple times and the parent is allowed to give us justification of why they feel that you know that they that that particular expense should be approved so we could certainly run those numbers for you if you'd like but we don't necessarily have the exact numbers at this time it'd probably be good to run the numbers and where I'm going with my questions
is the is there a timeline you mentioned about wanting to get these rules in place which I appreciate and I think that brings clarity but based on the volume of calls that you're getting based on number of appeals that are pending or that historically you have been filed is there anything in the rules that addresses the timeline for parents to be able to know what the expectation is and and I'mm I'm just wondering if if they are expected to have something turned in by a certain
timeline but there is a volume of questions that may be limits him from being able to get turned in what they need to on timeline. iss that a department issue that needs to be addressed or can you speak to that and address my concern I don't know if there's
a certain timeline like there's you know within 10 days you have to get it or you're out type thing I mean we certainly we want to have the the the appropriate amount of discussion back and forth with a parent to allow them the justification we anticipate a much more efficient system coming up in this this next coming school year with some more
efficiencies from Class wallet and some new efficiencies within just some processes that we feel like we can improve on which will then speed up that return process and that back and forth that we do when we do see the initial response or the initial expense submission that we can then get into the process and get into that justification or that conversation a lot quicker and then get to the decision piece a lot quicker which will then make everything go faster OK
the on the sports you said that's the one that you got the
most and just scanning and looking at the comments and everything it seems like some have genuine appreciation some have questions it's kind of a little bit of a mixed bag but on the sports equipment and the denial of paying for sports equipment just educate me like I understand what you're saying about using the money for travel teams, you know, parents in the in the other world have to pay for that out of their pocket. they don't have the ability to you know to to get reimbursed for that
but talk to me about if a if a homeschool student wants to participate in a sports program help me understand the comparison of them not being able to have equipment paid for and if they're going to apply to play for you know with a private school or public school just talk around that for a second and help me understand. so
Speaker 268
1:52:38
so I'll just start with by saying typically a lot of the community programs, school programs they're going to supply
the equipment. it's not typically until you get into some of the more elite programs that parents start having to purchase their their own equipment. and so again it's never our intent to be a hammer or to deny you know, appropriate use of the funds but if if a parent is trying to go above and beyond and go to that elite sports program that requires
all of these additional things when there is a community program or a school program that's also available that provides those the equipment we feel like that is a better use of those funds. you ask the restricts the
usage of funds for anything outside of what would be a community program or participation in a private school program or someone that wanted to pay play in a public on a public school program is that the bottom line? I don't know if I would categor categorize it that way
darryl do you want to try to help me? the the basically I think the best way I could describe that is that the purpose of the rule for the sports is not to create create an EFA where it has an advantage or disadvantage but to make sure that that it creates choices and it creates opportunities and that's what we're trying to do so the part of the sport this whole part of like what sports can what sports can't there's really not if you if you really read the rule there's not very many individual or team sports that are not you are not as that are not an option for homeschool families
so the only thing and so when you go to your I think to your question was about the equipment and some of those things so the the idea was we don't want anybody to be excluded from an opportunity in their communities and so therefore we want to make sure that they have an in we won't pay for your registration fees pay for those fees that are required you to get in because we we know there's some parents that that might be limiting and we don't want that to happen we want again we want every student to have an opportunity to participate in their community and so we want to make sure they
have those fees to get in and so when it comes to the equipment equipment is very specialized especially in sports right that that's a shoes and it's bats and it's helmets and those are very things that are a little bit more specialized to the individual student in those types of things and so and typically those are things that would be out of pocket expenses for parents and so we want to make sure again that that the program is fair that the
program doesn't create an advantage for EFA students or disadvantage for EFA students
OK and and one other question we haven't even talked about the 20
you know about the about the carryover funds just give a quick explanation from the department's point of view on the carryover funds
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
1:55:32
so I think the the the biggest thing to think about is that the EFA program
was never intended to be a long term savings account. It was intended to be used in a way that students could access those funds but also plan for the future so as we were looking at the total amount there was like what is an adequate amount just like this body does for the public school system they determine an adequate amount that would
educate a child that we would send to the public school system and so as we looked at the review and said what is an adequate amount that we feel like would help a student assuming that they they start in 9th to 12th grade when that those future ready pathways are starting to evolve and those types of things what would be a legitimate amount there that they could still we we're not taking away options but theys but it yet it still is fisc ally responsible to this body and to the taxpayers and so as we looked at that we said ok there's $8500 which is again just a little bit more than what one year's worth of EFA would be
so just a quick math here is that if you're in ninth grade and you you know saved the maximum amount which would be $8500 and then you had se roughly7,000 dollars a year you would have roughly36,000 dollars to spend over that four year period for advanced courses for industry certification for concurrent courses and if you kind of put that in perspective the average tuition for a four year college here is about just a little under $10,000 so for36,000 dollars a student could
literally almost go through 3.5 years of a four year college while they were in high school so we felt like there was no that it doesn't limit anything but yet it does it but it's more fiscally responsible so we don't have just a lot of money just sitting without not not helping kids and so I think that the the biggest issue there at least the the calculations that we did is what's a fair amount that allows all the options that are still available to those students but
yet is still fiscally responsible to the
taxpayer thank you senator. right I've got two more and then we're going to go to public comment. I've got three more then we'll go
Speaker 368
1:57:45
to public comment. senator dotson you're recognized Oh jump
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
1:57:48
back in there let's see here right go ahead thank you Mr chairir just going back for a second to the the technology purchases and the approval process. what what's
the department's like targeted turnaround time for approval of technology expenses or any expenses really but and especially with regards to technology though more specifically since there is a a cap on that category and repurchases of of something that they may have purchased in prior years but since technology changes so quickly there might be a a need or necessity for a reapproval of that particular secondary expense I guess on that item.
but we certainly want to turn around the the submissions as fast as possible OK so that's our first thing and we we at one point in this year beginning of this year where we led the nation in turnaround time we were about a nine day turnaround time and so that was we and and we we wanted to kind of stay within that one we consider it one cycle of your credit card right so that if you put something on my credit card that I could get the money back to me before I had to pay it off the next month right that's that's kind of our general read that that period that's when you'd go
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
1:59:02
from 10 staff and start pulling more over into that that approval process yes
sir and we anticipate again with some class wallet efficiencies this year that we'll be able to get back
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
1:59:13
into that a faster cycle and does the department do
any type of approval of technology purchases for like traditional public schools or charter schools
Senator Terry Rice
Unverified
1:59:26
so there are some instances with schools that are in fiscal distress or
Speaker 268
1:59:34
I think even charter schools but there are some instances where we actually do approve large purchases or taking on any debt for certain schools. is
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
1:59:43
there a per student on those type of expenses not within
Speaker 374
1:59:47
not per student no not within the school but those are
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
1:59:51
those are for cause if if somebody's in fiscal distress it's not a every single purchase for by every single school district in the state right correct OK
going on to I know there's been a lot of talk about the extracurricular activities and the tryouts and things like that but it seems to me I remember schools having tryouts for for any type of sports you know so and not making the team seem to be something that happened in regular public school private schools various other
locations so would these expenses like would we not allow any expenses to go to any other type of stuff other than EFA accounts for for limitations on tryouts I'm not sure if I'm wording that not totally sure I understand the question
Speaker 370
2:00:53
but so so basically aren't there tryouts on every sports team and I'm sorry not every
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
2:01:05
student's gonna make the team whether it's a traditional public school or a charter school or a private school or whatever type of other organized school activities but we still continue to fund them with tax dollars correct but every
Speaker 268
2:01:18
student is entitled to take a sports class at a public school. So if my son wants to take baseball, typically that would be seventh period at a school. then he would try out for the team that that plays after school and he may not make it but every student is entitled to
be in that class to practice to learn about baseball, to be provided equipment by the school and
Speaker 374
2:01:43
a EFA student could go to the public school and ask to be in that class
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
2:01:49
and they would have to be permitted and and then as far as expenses
for equipment if they were to go to the school and the school supplies that type of equipment then they would be supplied the same type of equipment and then on page 23 of the rules there's
a line in there and I'm sorry I'll have to find it my notes are I'm not on that page where my notes are at. talks about expelled a student being expelled and ineligibility what if a student gets expelled without justification is there an appeal process for for in a student that got expelled and then they're automatically ineligible
for the EFA program in its entirety according to what I'm reading with this
Speaker 268
2:02:53
rules that would be the case Right so it does have to be an expulsion that's related to a disciplinary action, there are some cases with private schools where you might be expelled for for other nondisciplinary reasons. and so it does have to be disciplinary and anytime a student is being expelled
there's usually a hearing they've had an oper or they are offered a hearing if they choose to do that to my knowledge that language is from statute and so we did not add an additional appeal. however, if a parent were to come to us and say I've been expelled but I'm you know, fighting that or or have some other course of action we can't substitute our judgment for whether the expulsion was appropriate or not but if they were to go through their their
challenge and it succeed then we could consider
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
2:03:49
admitting them back into the program so that they could they could potentially
have an appeal of say ABC school had a a disciplinary criteria that was far excessive in one category that this CDF school over here did not have the same sort of dis disciplinary pro program problem that could be accepted to this one and continue on as an EFA student potentially it's possible
that's obviously going to be a case by case basis OKok
thank you thank you senator Representative Long, you recognized for a
Representative Wayne Long
Unverified
2:04:27
question thank you Mr Chairman back on the EFA regarding the sports teams I could see the justification for not paying for travel because you know that's not really something that the public schools would do you know they generally get home that night that type of thing but I really don't see a justification
for not at least reimbursing for the registration for the team what what was
Speaker 301
2:05:02
for or reimburse for registration or fees for teams that don't exclude students based on ability. So if you want to join your your local community team through the boys and girls clubb. you can use EFA funds for registration for that. However if there is a team
that you have to try out and potentially students are excluded because of their ability or skill, those registration fees are are restricted and why we were trying to be reasonable in in what is how do you round out a a a you know, educational experience. we didn't want to set a dollar
amount because these are very they vary quite a bit and so we felt it was more appropriate to restrict them altogether rather than rather than put a dollar amount such as it's ok to pay50 dollars or $100 versus500 dollars or $1000. to me that was less justifiable than just limiting it to teams and sports and programs that admit everybody so that students are getting that well rounded
instruction about the sport, about what it's like to be on a team and and having that be part of their educational
Representative Wayne Long
Unverified
2:06:31
experience. like senator dotson said a moment ago when we were in high school public schools you know you had to try out for the team and some some don't make it the basketball team's really limited you're usually fi5 players a lot of people don't make it but you know our tax dollars go to fund that school there's no limit to them and I'm just trying to get it sort of where everybody's treated the same and I think if you change the rule
to allow for the registration not to travel not you know mileage or anything like that you know I'd I'd be ok with that on any of it as far as traveling out of state to to some sort of zoo or something like that you know it's like you can you go to the one in LittleRock just like we used to do but you know I I think it's only fair to at least pay for the registration or reimbursement for registration thank you Mr chairman thank youpresentative. All right this is going to
be our last question before we have
public comment we can have time for more questions
after that if possible Senator Blake Johnson you
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
2:07:34
are recognized is there some sports that I'm missing here that this was the big topic in this whole thing that's not offered by the public schools because they can participate in any public school sports program through our Tim Tebow law. it am I missing something here
is there something out there sports wise that challenge locally that they can't get to the public school or
Speaker 392
2:08:04
what am I missing so there may be some sports that not every
Speaker 268
2:08:09
public school offers but it's not about just you know having them go to outside entities they can go to the local public school but we wanted them to have some options and the ability to choose and so even if the public school does offer a particular sport if that
parent would rather go to their local community center or or homeschool organization, they can choose to do that we just put reasonable restrictions on the type of program that we felt which also helped to control cost. and what you
Speaker 395
2:08:45
were saying earlier about the whether it be individual sports or team sports
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
2:08:50
or something in the public schools that's offered if they don't make a team that they can still
thank you senator and just last clarification if a public school
student leaves at semester or leaves at any point and decides to be a homeschool student or decides to be go to a private school and use EFA funds will you describe the timeline again, since EFA funds are issued quarterly, correct? if a student starts in a public school and then does something different they would
have access to those funds correct? at the next quarter they would
have access to the next quarter that wouldn't be retroactive so you wouldn't have the full years' EFA
Speaker 313
2:09:40
funds but it would be the next quarter in any subsequent quarter after that that they were involved as Courtney was mentioning that now that the portal is closed with the new in these new rules so that's when the portal closes
here on June 1st that unless there's very few there's very few conditions a very strict conditions of which you can still get into the program at
this point OK understood thank you all right all right members we're we'll we'll ask you to step aside for for a moment 01 2nd 1 2nd
Speaker 265
2:10:12
one second. uhsenator dissang to follow up on that line of
Senator Jonathan Dismang
Unverified
2:10:15
question real fast right Mr Chairmann appreciate you asking that question and it really leads to really what I was think what I was getting after there's a a whole bunch of conversation about how kids or parents that are maybe
not in the best interest of their kids or pulling their kids out of the homeschool
because maybe there's a disciplinary issue or whatever midschool year and if I'm understanding what you're saying correctly like that doesn't make them automatically eligible for funding then so if there's a problem at a school I hear it over and over and over again this is a I've I've heard it from superintendents repeatedly that that parents are using this EFAs this program so that when something goes wrong at the school instead of fixing it they just pull their kids out because now we're giving them money
and that from what I'm hearing is not even possible that's correct sir I wanna can you state that because I I've heard it from superintendents now it's maybe one of the major complaints that I hear is that parents are essentially misusing the program and yanking their kids out last minute or because of disciplinary issues or whatever and then we're they're not eligible for the EFA program. with the passage of these new
rules then there would be there will be no way that the portal is closed and so there's you can't get into the EFA program until the next school year at the you know and so there therefore it is impossible for a student who gets it leaves the public school system
Speaker 404
2:11:48
to be enter into the EFA program right so for the public school folks that are in the room paying
Senator Jonathan Dismang
Unverified
2:11:54
attention if you could send that out in your bulletins I would appreciate it thank you all right
thank you senator right to the department if you could step aside and be
ready if we have questions at the end we're going to move forward
to public comment. first if you'll just introduce yourself and who you represents from a timeline perspective we just ask that you keep it concise and the other thing we would say is that if it's already been said it may not be need to be said again but this is your time so this is just advice we you are allowed to go wherever you'd like to go this is your story your public time we'd like to keep them under5 minutes but we'll just we'll be casual with that so we have 13 on our
list and we'll go one by one.
First is Miss Stephanie Nichols if you'll introduce yourself and who
Stephanie Nichols
Unverified
2:12:57
you represent and you're recognized My name is Stephanie Nichols and I'm legal counsel for family counsel andation alliance and we are also proud participants in
the EFA program as a homeschooling family so I must start by saying thank you to all of you in this room who did hard work to support this program and to our Arkansas department of Education that has worked very hard, doing very hard things they have been trying to you know fly the airplane while they're building it and you know in a sense. so I want to start with gratefulness and to our governor who has led the charge and really had one of
the best EFA programs in the nation and I can't critique the role s you know, the finer points of the rules without giving you the big picture that I know so many homeschool families whose kids are receiving better educations now. what we hear is an organization is we used to have to scour eBay for used textbooks that might be outdated. and we couldn't afford every piece of the curriculum but now we can get what we need
and that is very relevant to what we consider in these rules because if we preserve the freedom, the creativity and the innovation, we are only just beginning to see the positive results of this program 10 years from now, I believe we will be amazed what we see in this state if we preserve creativity and freedom. So I did have a few fine points on the rules that I wanted to discuss and homeschoolers do
have a problem with restricting any coverage of athletics that requires tryouts that's not so much of a problem for younger students but with junior high and high school students you can rarely find any community league in rural Arkansas. I live in a small town in Arkansas there's no community sports opportunities for my son to play basketball and you know, once once they hit7th grade and 8th grade and they might not make a public school team
and attending a class telling you about playing baseball is not the same thing is actually playing baseball so we would ask that this committee consider Ac 920 was passed in 2025 and it was a prudent fiscal measure. limiting expenditure expenditures on PE and extracurricular activities to 25%. of a student's account We have not heard any complaints from homeschoolers about travel
expenses not being covered. they just want things like gymnastics opportunities covered even even competitive cheerleading activities would fall under this limitation. Sometimes tryouts and what qualifications are even a safety issue the way the rules are written if a student wants to participate in sports at a private school that requires tryouts You can do that under Arkansas state law but it's not actually
covered under this. it seems like so we have that 25% fiscal limit. that's a great thing. The legislature did a great thing in passing that 25% limit. but now we are steering those funds towards mediocre opportunities instead of allowing students to excelstead we should be allowing students to compete at the highest levels that they are capable of. that would be the best use of state dollars to promote excellence and I'm not sure why
we instead want to we have the same financial limit, but instead we are saying you can't use that for any registration fees or dues for something that requires tryout something where you might not make the team and that's a problem What we have heard as well as homeschool families are often waiting two months or more for reimbursements right now. when you add a preapproval process onto that and you add an additional layer of bureaucracy
how is that not going to present even a greater barrier to education. so it seems to me that the problem is not the preapproval process but there is no timeline in the rules and we're already not able to turn things around in a timely fashion and that's going to present an educational barrier to some families. if you compare the list of qualifying expenses in the statute and you compare the list of core educational expenses in the rules
you will find out that supplies and equipment those terms supplies and equipment are specifically included in the statute as qualifying educational expenses but they are removed from the list of core educational expenses meaning that supplies and equipment for courses we're not talking about sports anymore we're talking about academic courses has to go through the preapproval process and if you buy something for your kids because they need it urgently for an academic
course and its supplies or equipment then the letter of the law is that that will not be reimbursed so homeschool families lack confidence in both the lack of a reasonable timeline in the rules and then you know just having those supplies that
are needed you Nichols. I appreciate
your your comments so on Ac 920 how that's interpreted today 25%
max on those extracurricular activities and this rule would would do what? move it
Stephanie Nichols
Unverified
2:18:58
to zero? no you still have the same amount available but you can't steer those state funds towards anything but sports programs that don't you know, require participation based on tryouts so you are steering things towards programs that may not be an excellent use of state funds and especially once you hit7th grade and above, I don't know
how you find many of those opportunities that don't cut someone from the team
based on a tryout. you appreciate it members any questions seeing none thank
you for your testimony I'm sorry we do have one
question Senatorhammer you're recognized for a question so is it your position that the rule violates the
act that contains the 25% allowance in it is that your
Stephanie Nichols
Unverified
2:19:53
unnecessary barriers and that the legislature intended there to be the fiscal limit of 25%. I don't believe our legislators intended to micromanage every sports opportunity and make sure upperle students can only participate in sports that don't require a level of excellence. OK thank you thank you Senator Senator
Irving, you're recognized just a quick question
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
2:20:15
I'm right here on the Tim Tebow law can a homeschool student can
participate in a public schools athletic sports and the different programs is that are they restricted to their school district or can they petition to join a public school outside of the school district with with from which they reside. My understanding is that they can apply
Stephanie Nichols
Unverified
2:20:45
for a sport play sports for a district outside the school district they reside in. that can be a problem in
rural Arkansas as as I know you're aware because there may not let's say that a student wanted to participate in an opportunity that that wasn't available in their local school will will they might not necessarily be able to find archery at a school within 50 miles, but maybe there's a local club that does archery competitions. the other thing about it's important to remember that just because students try out for a spot on the sports team at the local public school
does not mean that they will necessarily get that spot on a sports team at a local public school.
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
2:21:33
Yeah, I understand. I was just but the restriction is just based on the the parent's ability to
drive them. I mean but that was my my child ' s restriction even though he went to a public school was if he wanted to play elite soccer we would have had to have driven, you know, to littlettleRock which we did but OK, I just, I just wanted to make sure so they're not limited to the school district with with
that they reside in they can actually go to a different school district to participate in those different athletic opportunities that's my understanding of verify that thank you thank you senator
thank you for your testimony appreciate your time
you chairext we havekyle I'll do my best on these names please forgive me but Kyle Mcean you're welcome to
Julia Taylor
Unverified
2:22:18
the table please introduce yourself and you'll be recognized.
Speaker 414
2:22:29
My name isylecean Arkansas resident and homeschool parent my wife and I had built our homeschool around a simple but deeply held belief that team sports and competition are foundational to child development, not just for the physical benefits not just for the social ones but because of something more fundamental. we believe in the practice of being exceptional. when you teach a child to strive to be the absolute best that they can and make excellence a daily habit. those habits carry into adulthood in ways no textbook alone can produce. We have found that when you
encourage excellence sometimes your children start to become excellent my son Kellar is 11 years old. every single day he's outside training for soccer in the summer in the summer heat and in the winter cold because he absolutely loves it. Nobody's making him do it At11 years old he has made the decision to practice being excellent in every drill, every hour spent in our yard reflects that decision because of that work Keller has earned a spot, one of only 16 on the state of Arkansas's Olympicvelopment soccer teamam.
6 players chosen from across the entire state to represent Arkansas against the rest of the country. My 11 year old son has earned that right to represent his home and makeark Arkansans proud the proposed rule change would prohibit EFA funds from being used for any sport or activity that requires a tryout where children can be cut. in other words it will take this opportunity from him not because he did anything wrong but because he did everything right Keller's not alone in this. my daughterindy competes in gymnastics. Last season she won gold in the allaround at the
state championships meaning she was the best gymnast in Arkansas for her age group. what she wants to do is go to the Olympics like Arkansas's own JocelynRoberts in gymnastics trots are not optional. They are a safety requirement placing a child in the wrong in placing a child in the wrong skill levels not just competitively inappropriate it is physically dangerous a child performing skills above their ability as a child at serious risk of injury and beyond safety there is no recreational alternative. Her
favorite event the uneven bars is simply not offered outside of competitive team programs. if she is not on the team she cannot access the training she needs Every policy decision made regarding EFA should answer one question will this positively or negatively affect the children of Arkansas. This rule cha this rule change has no answer that benefits a single child. it does not create opportunity it does not increase access it does not protect anyone. it only takes from children who have
earned something and gives nothing back in return. The Department of Education has clarified that tryouts are permitted as long as every child is placed on a team but the vast majority of competitive teams by their very nature eliminate and sort players that's the definition of competitive athletics. You cannot have a state Olympic development team that takes one that takes every child that shows up. the moment that you mandate that EFA funds can only support programs where no child is eliminated you've effectively banned funding for competitive sports entirely.
the one question that I've not heard answered and the one thing that we can agree on is that there's already a 25% cap that exists the money is already designated to go there. there's not a a dime being saved with this new rule change. so this this this will hurt my children when a child is pushed onto a no cut team that team simply keeps adding players to their roster. No one is cut and everyone losess playing time they get less development,
there's less competition and less fun for every child on that team. you've not protected anyone, you've lowered the quality and the experience for everyone in priced excellence out of reach. The guard rails against abuse are already in place. This rule saves not $1 and it does not matter how hard it it sends a message to every exceptional child in Arkansas. It does not matter how hard you work, how much you sacrifice or how excellent you become if you earn your spot, Arkansas does not support you. You will be forced to participate below your
level not because you failed but because you've succeeded and I would urge all of you to reject this rule change. helplp Arkansas
children become excellent. thank you Mr Mcean. if you're willing to take questions we have a fewpresentative Eaves you are recognized oh s your right thank you thank
Representative Les D. Eaves
Unverified
2:26:54
you Mr Chairman. I'm not really sure what the Olympic development team is. I think I know but I suppose that is something that children go to that play soccer that you have to try out for that team and get selected and this would be
whether you're public school, private homeschool whatever. if a public school kid tries out for that team and makes it does the public school pay for that registration fee? but you want homeschool EFAs to pay for that registration fee is that what I'm understanding? I'm just trying to make sure I understand what you're saying.
Speaker 414
2:27:24
Yes, I would like the the the EFA money that has already been offered to us that's already applied to be able to apply across the board. like I said taxpayer
Representative Les D. Eaves
Unverified
2:27:33
money to pay for your kid to play on this Olympic development team which I think's great
but the public schools don't use taxpayer money to let a public school kid
Speaker 414
2:27:46
join that same team. is that correct? in the phrasing in the way that you've worded that yes as a as a homeschool parent though we provide the education for our children, right? So as a family of six we're stretched already. So as an opportunity for educational development for my son, yes, the I would like for to continue the EFfa dollars to go towards his own development both
physically, mentally puts him in a different group to let him try against his abilities against other kids it it's a growing opportunity but
Representative Les D. Eaves
Unverified
2:28:18
he could still do that he could still develop into an Olympics style soccer player but you would have to pay for the registration fee for him to do that thank youpresentative
Senator hammer you're recognized for a question Thank you. I
just want to clarify your comments have been strictly against the the sports segment of the rules that are before us today, all the
other ones you don't have a problem with it's just the sports ones
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
2:28:45
do I'm just gonna let somebody else take the lead on
us. OK thank you. thank you senator Senator Irving you're recognized Yeah, thank you I I appreciate your comments and I appreciate all that you're pouring into your kiddos. you know my son also played did was part of the OdP program and so you know, from Mountainview, Arkansas we drove to LittleRock to participate in that and I mean I I I think you know I agree with
that's not what the these funds are really intended for. and and I would just argue that you know, soccer is one of the most skilled individual sports it's a team sport but it's literally one of the most skilled individual sports there is and so you know, I I I appreciate that but again at this point you've you've got to look at what we're trying to do for all these
families that are really trying to provide education outside of a public school institution that's focused on all of the different subjects and trying to make that work as a comparable not equal nothing is gonna be equal nothing's going to be fair. Now I want to make sure I I read all these comments and it's this isn't fair. this isn't fair. Well you never had access to these funds before we passed this legislation so
no, life is not going to be fair. life is not going to be equal. That is just life but again with respect to your choices that you're making ultimately these are going to be choices made and it's it's if you make a choice that fits within the rule, then it's going to work for you and your family if you make a choice outside of it then it may not but hopefully you can find a way that the education freedomc accounts can help you make other choices for
your child that can offset some of those
expenses and I I think that's where my encouragement
Speaker 414
2:30:54
is to you. thank you for that can I reply to that I guess the the greater point is that as Misstephhaie back here talked about there is there are very few places you can go even in LittleRock where there is not a tryout with a cut. that just doesn't exist for soccer in particular, you know
they try out and they sort kids into different teams and some kids don't make it. what this change does is it's it it's not just gonna eliminate a a few a couple of teams a couple of leagues it's gonna eliminate the vast majority of teams out there in clubs and leagues in all different sports from being from having fees paid. The the issue I have is that I don't I don't see why there is a distinguisher all of a sudden a line drawn in the
sand between elite competitive sports and recreational level that that's that hasn't been clarified by the department ofducation or anything in to me so I think there's a lot broader implications than just the ODp Yes, ultimately if it's something that we decided that that we just couldn't afford because the rule changed then you know we would make that decision then but I guess the point is as homeschoolers ultimately we pulled our kids out of school in order to do
something different and these funds have been presented to us and now a rule change is being presented that's going to hinder our ability to make those
decisions. Thank you Mr. Mcean see no further questions. thanks for your testimony. M Altman you're up next right
Julia Taylor
Unverified
2:32:43
if you'll introduce yourself, hit the green button, you'll be recognized.
Speaker 426
2:32:53
Good afternoon I just want to start by saying thank you to every one of you for your service to the citizens of Arkansas and the hard work you do for us. I appreciate it. I'm Rebecca Altman I'm a homeschool educator and I want to start by saying how grateful I am for the EFA program in the way that it has enriched my children's education over the past two years. I fully support and believe that public funds should be used responsibly. My concern however is that several of these
proposed rules unintentionally reduce the educational flexibility that makes the EFA program so valuable for homeschool families. one concern is the proposed $1000 aggregate annual limit on all technology purchases because it's important to understand this isn't simply a $1000 limit on a computer. This includes computers, tablets, printers, headphones, webcams and any other tech device and today's economy a $1000 annual limit is pretty
unrealistic. Families new to homeschooling could reach that limit very quickly and older students often require more advanced technology. In fact my oldest daughter is a film and media production major at Harding University and even an entrylevel computer capable of running required software can easily exceed $1000. Students pursuing engineering graphic design architecture and programming do face similar needs. Also the new rule allows a student to exceed the $1000 limit only if there is a private
school or institution of higher education requirement or if the technology is deemed necessary by a qualified professional that raises a simple question is a homeschool educator considered a qualified professional. we are legally responsible for directing our children's education selecting curriculum and determining the educational tools our students need I ask that homeme educators be explicitly included within the definition of qualified professional.
I also ask you guys to consider a more realistic technology limit such as a higher annual cap or a percentagebased approach similar to other categories that way students have access to the technology needed to prepare them for college careers and life after graduation. Another concern I have is the definition of core educational expenses is so narrow that many legitimate educational purchases would require preapproval as written the is written parents may only be reimbursed if
preapproval is received before the expense is incurred what if my biology student needs a microscope or lab supplies or our printer dies unexpectedly and we can't wait a month or longer to get a preapproval and we need to go ahead and buy something right away. Well otherwise like if it basically that will just be denied on the language the way it is currently written as a matter of fact we personally dealt with delays this spring when my advanced high school music
students piano instructor recommended a MIdicontrolller for music composition using the directpay process by the time the order arrived nearly 2.5 months later, the semester was essentially over. Students should not have to put their education on hold to wait for preapproval. I ask that reimbursement be based on whether and expense is education ally eligible rather than on whether preapproval was received before the purchase I'm also concerned about the
proposed requirement that co curricular courses be delivered by someone with subject matter knowledge or experience under the proposed rules only language arts social studies and nonadvanced math and science are considered core subjects. so that means every other subject is considered cocurricular. Homeschool parents routinely use curriculum books and online instruction to teach subjects we may not already know. This is one of the strengths of homeschooling and I'm concerned that the new language could
require home educators to demonstrate subject matter knowledge or experience in order to purchase the supplies needed to teach co-cur ri cul ar subjects. I ask that the rules make clear that parent led instruction and the materials used for that instruction remain eligible expenses. Ultimately my concern is that these proposed rules unintentionally move the EFA program away from educational freedom and as a homeschool educator my goal is to tailor each of my children's educations in a way that allows them to thrive.
I respectfully ask the committee to preserve that flexibility and continue trusting homeschool parents as the primary educators of our children. thank
Saltman.embers any questions? see none thank you for your testimony today right next we have Miss Beavers if you will introduce
Julia Taylor
Unverified
2:37:59
yourself for the record and you'll be recognized
Speaker 431
2:38:07
there you go my name is Sharice Beers
Cherise Beavers
Unverified
2:38:11
and I'm a homeschool mom and actual veteran of 24 years and that is possible and we don't get retirement so anyways I'm going to give you a couple of examples of what she just talked about. so I'm I'm gonna skip past the other stuff so that I'm not redundant but the technology cap first of
allus I should say thank you. I really do appreciate this. I appreciate being able to be here and some of the questions that some of y'all have asked are are very important questions. so thank you for that but the technology cap is really I I think that it really needs to be thought through a little bit more because it's not going to save you money and I can prove it this year I I got
my one of my daughters wants to go into graphic design. I did some research asked for some recommendations for from graphic designers and the a certain iPad with the technology on it was recommended which was right about with taxes and everything about $1500 and you cannot get that through the marketplace that there's not one
that is on marketplace that like that. So I had to to buy it outright so since it was a a major purchase I this was prior to the the formed approvals I just sent in and asked if it was something that they would consider being as that she wanted this to be her career choice and they said yes
but I needed to have like something credentialed saying that she had to have that computer since it was passed and the $1000 so then I had to go in and find a specific course or because she was talking about the credentialed had to go in and find that specific to have it recommended
in the course like it was required in the course which costs50000 dollars more dollars so in a sense I just spent500 dollars extra dollars for something that wasn't necessarily necessary I could have bought curriculum or had or or used online tutorials for her to do the same thing and it wouldn't have cost uh500 dollars. The other thing
that I want to point out is that the idea I believe it's page 3 rules7 and 8 talking about having an actual education plan and with specific performance based assessments learning objectives that as homeschoolers I don't necessarily
create a test to especially for like Co curricular things like my daughter one of my daughters loves to sow and that actually is something that she wants to pursue as a career choice. and and now I'm finding myself having to find classes or curriculums and we these things are already in place like I cannot get materials
for her tools for her and in approved unless I send in these these ideas with like the curriculum with performancebased assessments this is already there. I mean these these rules are basically already being enforced so I'm spending more money trying to do that. I'm there's not a whole lot of stemstresses out there that are
going to give a class with all of this in it and and senator Irvin asked about the credentialed person like if I have someone in the local community do something that I have to present a plan where they have to present a plan to do that that's not just acceptable so it's costing more money than then it I mean you may see it as safety
rules but are our boundaries but it's actually costing you
more you beavers members any questions seeing none thank you for your testimony today Mr Cox you're up next. We welcome you to the table if you'll introduce yourself for the record and who you represent.
Jerry Cox
Unverified
2:44:01
thank you Mr Chair members of the committee I'm Jerry Cox I'm the executive director of family council and I appreciate your patience to hear all the testimony on these rules and I thought I'd bring the I had time to read the public comments we've been here for a while and you know they're about600 pages of public comments about these rules and I think I heard the department say there may have been more on some
things but very few and so we as an organization did not weigh in real early on these rules but when we began to see how many of our members and when I say our members we also have the education alliance which is a part of family council it represents about4,000 homeschool families around the state many of whom are taking part in the
EFA program and they began to sound alarm about the rules and so the more we looked at them the more we realized that they had something there as I've looked at the public comments the department addressed some but not nearly all and so since that time I've had op opportunity to visit with Doctor Darrell Smith for probably close to 2 hours and I do not doubt the good
motives of Doctor Smith and Miss Ford, Courtney Sallis ford what I'm hearing is this I'm hearing them say that's not how we're going to interpret the rules but then I read the rules and the rules say we will not provide any reimbursement for sports that require tryouts and then they say well we mean travel sports or we mean AAU
basketball or whatever it is but then I read the rules but it doesn't say that it it's like some of the bills that we see come through the legislature where people say I intend to do this I want to do that I plan to do this but the rules themselves or the bill itself really doesn't say that to Senator Irvin's point I agree that the that if the public schools don't get reimbursed for travel sports and
the private schools don't get money for travel sports and neither should the homeschoolers I think that's totally fair but then if you have the word in there well if it's a team sport that requires tryouts well what is that and I think they all require that and so that's just an example of one unintended consequence the other unintended consequence is the preapproval process now right now I'm being told by homeschool
families that what used to take 2 to3 weeks is now taking 2 or three months and so at some point the rules stopped being a regulation and they start being a barrier to people actually being able to do the program I'm afraid that's what we're flirting with with this these are becoming a barrier especially if you're a family without a lot of money and it takes you a long long time to get your money then you're it it really is
tantamount to a barrier for them and so I believe these rules could be made really good with just a little bit of work between the people that have concerns about them and the department because we're all trying for the same thing EFA program is the best in the country and I love it and I'm grateful that the homeschoolers get to take part and I'm grateful to you for making it happen but the rules themselves have unintended consequences I think
rest of the testimony thank you Mr Cox members any questions I've got one
question for you how many homeschool students do you know are in the state of Arkansas
Jerry Cox
Unverified
2:48:24
do you know that number a little over30,000 I think it's more like32,000 I'm told about 14,000 of those students are taking part in the EFA program that they represent maybe40% of the EFA program I believe that's what I was told by the
department you Senator Blake Johnson you're recognized
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
2:48:43
for a question here so you say they have uninten unintended consequences they don't have unintended consequences until they have and they they have a possibility of unintended consequences is that correct? well that would be yes that would be
Jerry Cox
Unverified
2:48:59
be correct it it's the same as a bill that we all see go through the legislature at times it's like it can have unintended consequences yes sir so
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
2:49:10
you know we have functioned for this school year without a whole lot of rules and them doing their own thing do you think
Jerry Cox
Unverified
2:49:24
that's been abused there's not any evidence of that and and somebody could correct me senator if I'm wrong, I'm not aware of there being any instances of fraud or misuse of the of the funds I mean because I think it was testified
a few minutes ago that there's an ability to turn people over to law enforcement and to report them and all that. I'm not aware that there's been anything like that and in fact to the contrary you may recall just a few weeks ago the test scores came out regarding the the tests that everybody who's in the EFA program has to take a nationally recognized norm reference test and they took you know,
different ones but on on balance the percentile ranking on 100% percentile or 100% the homeschool students in the EFA program outpaced the private school kids by about 10%, about 10 points so they were in the homeschoolers were in the upper60s then private school kids were in the upper50s and and this is not a competition but I really see those numbers as a validation of the homeschoolers because
if they were a bunch of deadbeats they wouldn't be doing so well on the test and so I think the ones who are participating in the EFA program are are really doing it well and so I I just don't want to see there to be a bunch more barriers in there where we've got a good thing going and I do know we need rules. Nobody here is saying we don't need to eventually approve these rules they can just be made work the
right way I believe with a little
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
2:51:18
bit of work on them I think that possibility exists for perpetuity as long as this program exists perfection I don't think we ever get in in this in this body or in this structure but we have a governor that this is focused on and I think we have a a secret of Education same focus and I don't think they've abused it over the
last year and and I I think they will continue to work with you and other homeschoolers to to advance education in Arkansas and and I don't have the same fear or angst that that you know whatever is messed up can be can be fixed
Speaker 444
2:52:03
understand and you know, I I respect that greatly. I would just say that
Jerry Cox
Unverified
2:52:09
all these people I guess feel different well I mean there's always
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
2:52:17
you know whenever you you something is new you know the the and and have has went a year without a whole lot of structure you know those folks are those folks are out there and doing that because they don't want government intervention in into education and and the there's a reason that that that's the reason that that's so
Jerry Cox
Unverified
2:52:41
large. well and please understand that my position is it's worked pretty well up to this point I just
don't want these rules to mess it up that's what I think the people that are commenting or afraid of is that the rules are going to mess up what up to this point is working working pretty well. I mean we're trying to get the kinks out of it obviously everybody is but but Mr chairir I I want to reiterate we love the EFA program we think it's a the greatest in the country and we just want to keep it that way and we appreciate everybody trying to do that thank you Mr.
Cox thank you Senator Johnson Senator Irvin you're recognized for a
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
2:53:25
question maybe thank you appreciate it and I think it's probably more a comment I I think you have a greater handle of rules and legislation probably than some of the
folks maybe that make make comments but I still love what they have what they have written and things like that. I think it's a good discussion though as to
limitations and you're you've got limitations no matter what you choose and so you know the idea that we don't have school choice because of a rule that doesn't let me take my child to visit, you know, Stint Louis zoo doesn't mean that I have no freedom anymore. and so I think it's really important for us to have this discussion in this committee as long as it
takes because it is it is really important to understand that choices are made and there are consequences of choices that people make every single day and just because we have limitations with there's limitations with public school there's limitations with private school and guess what there's limitations with homeschool too and I think it's just really important for us to have that conversation because at the end of the day you're gonna make choices as a parent for your
children and those choices come with restrictions, limitations, freedoms you know good consequences bad consequences good outcomes, bad outcomes and I I think it's nearly impossible for the state of Arkansas through legislation or rule
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
2:55:07
to really try to create the perfect scenario that's going to be individualized for every single citizen in the state of Arkansas and that's not the goal of the program either and so I think
it's a healthy discussion to have and I appreciate all the comments. I think for me you know we've got to get to a point where we have integrity in the program and we know that that there are holes you may not have empirical data that shows and points that somebody didn't get committed by fraud. but every community knows if a family went to Disneyor on EFA money account and just because
it's not investigated prosecuted or whatever we know that's happened or has happened or has the potential to happen so that destroys the integrity of the program for everybody else so you have to have rules in place to prevent those things from happening is it burdensome for some people? yeah it can it can be but the alternative is we have zero integrity zero accountability, zero transparency and then it gets
abused and then it jeopardizes the program for everybody so you know I'll let you make comments on that and thank you Mr Chair. it's more of a comment about where we are. I I think it's just a healthy discussion to have though because we have to create and find that balance
Jerry Cox
Unverified
2:56:42
you know for the program and you were exactly right we do need the balance and as I said earlier at what point do rules and accountability and all these things become barriers
and that's that's a judgment call we all know that it's hard to figure out when when the rules have have actually become a barrier to people accessing the program I will say this and pointed out and I know Senator Irvin you you you know this too that we already have accountability in the EFA program for homeschoolers in fact I would argue that it's more than it is for the private schools because you pay your tuition to the private school you don't really know what they spent the money on it could be a football, it could be a
flagpole, it could be a math book. it could be anything for the school if you're a homeschooler and you want to spend some money you've got to either be preapproved and then go spend your money and they go back and show your receipt and get reimbursed or you buy your material and hope that you get get get get paid for, get it paid for and so there's somebody sitting there looking at all those and
Senator Irvin I would hope that nobody's gone to Disneyor or anything on a on an EFA dollar if they did with all due respect somebody at the department would have had to have approved that before they could have done so and so it's a program that we're trying to make work well and I think we're all on the same page with that and and so I I appreciate you know Mr chairir, the opportunity to to talk about that and Senator Irvin I appreciate your
comments. I really deeply do because we want this thing to have integrity we want it to work right we don't want people to abuse it and and and I think we can we can certainly get close to it Senator Johnson it won't be perfect but I believe we can get close to it if we just all work together. you Mr Cox thank you and thank you for indulging me that much time I
appreciate it appreciate your time right next we have number6 of13. we have Heather Marie Wells you as a reminder we want to give
everyone time to speak if if it's been said we might be quicker on that topic as well as a you'll introduce yourself for
Heather Marie
Unverified
2:59:15
the record and you're recognized Thank you. My name is Heather Marie Wells and I am a homeschool parent and a taxpayer and I feel it's necessary to add that taxpayer in because they feel like a lot of times those of us who use the EFA program
the proponents to it are your' spending taxpayer money and this is also money that we have put into the state as well because we are also taxpayers I particularly want to talk about two points of definition and I, I also thank you all for all of your work and thank you for the EFA program. I also want to thank the ADE and their staff. it's a big job this program is still in its infancy and I believe if we work together we can make
improvements and no program is is perfect as you were all just discussing but let's try to make it better some concerns that I have particularly on page three the definition of co curriculars is delivered by an instructor, teacher or provider with subject matter knowledge or expertise. I'm concerned that this means that these subjects will not be funded unless the parent is deemed a subject matter expert. However, Arkansas law and the
Learns Act does not require parents to have any training certificates or specific degrees. The point of homeschooling is for the parent to teach their child and this rule would mean that at least 17 named subject s in these new rules and even more unnamed subjects would no longer be eligible for funding. we live in a day in an age where we have access to so much information in the form of printed curriculum as well as video tutorials. how is this any
different than parents getting funded to cover curriculum and supplies for teaching things like reading, math and social studies it just doesn't make sense to me. Similarly the new rules in define extracurriculars in page5. defined extracurriculars is being conducted or overseen by a coach instructor, mentor or other adult was similar for qualifications not to include the student's parent
Again this is against the very nature of homeschooling for the parent to be the instructor. A number of extracurricular activities depend on parents to even exist scouting community sports leagues they're run by volunteer parents I also want to point out that this is a great living example to our students of civic duty, pride and community service. but the fact that they're saying
that a parent student can't be the instructor. That means the registration fees and everything for those extracurriculars wouldn't be funded and that doesn't make sense to me. these registration fees and funds go to things like facility usage supplies, memberships they're not going to the parent themselves. so why can't the parent be a volunteer in those instances? if the concern is that the parent shouldn't be paid there's already language in the law and
the rules that parents can't be paid to teach their kids. so I feel like that's already covered and that's where I'll limit my comments although others have talked about other subjects that I
do agree with. thank you for your time members any questions we do have a question here if you're willing we have Senator Johnson you're
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
3:03:01
recognized for question so I'm over here so whenever you said you know those cocurriculars you said subject matter knowledge or expertise
so there is no expertise in knowledge there's just a general educational background that you could deliver that to the to the student right that is my feeling yes where
Heather Marie
Unverified
3:03:27
is the fear in that the fear is how the rule will be interpreted by ADE Will ADE require that in order for the parent to get funding or buy the curriculum that they have to be
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
3:03:42
a subject matter expertise that's not what it says though. it says you got to have subject matter knowledge
Speaker 396
3:03:50
or expertise you can either or and the knowledge of the
Heather Marie
Unverified
3:03:57
subject that that doesn't mean you're an expert Theres already been instances where reviewers have denied curriculum and supplies to parents saying that they feel like the parent isn't qualified to teach the subject matter. and that that's where the
contention is coming from and ADE has said that that's not what they mean but words do matter and the current ADA administration may not always be the administration that's in the seats making the decisions and so that's why it's very important that we have the best wording possible in these rules. Butca can you
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
3:04:35
see you know their administration of it whether it's prior to the rules or post rules a
calculus based physics course and somebody that has 1/12 grade education trying to teach that child that you do you feel like that would be a
Speaker 447
3:04:53
problem don't feel like that would be
Heather Marie
Unverified
3:04:57
a problem. My husband took calculus in high school. He did go on to get a math degree I am the only he is the only reason why I actually passed algebra in high school and why I passed algebra and statistics in
college. The qualified teachers that I had could not explain the subject matter to me in a way that I could understand and even before he got his degree in mathematics he was able to teach
Speaker 169
3:05:30
me these things about your specific I I said in general would
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
3:05:34
you believe that somebody with 1/12 grade education
Speaker 392
3:05:38
could teach effectively checklist you do you believe that in general thank you thank you
thank you senator thank you for your time. appreciate your testimony. Next we have Miss Julia Taylor you're welcome to the table And Miss Taylor if
you'll introduce yourself for the record and who you represent and I believe you're speaking for the for the rules its
Senator Breanne Davis
Unverified
3:06:19
That's correct my name is Juliataylor and I represent Arkansas appleseed I'm an education organizer there and I am here to speak in favor of the new rules for EFA accounts particularly the rules enhancing the preapproval process for certain purchases these improvements seem reasonable, fair and responsible to me and to us at appleseed school districts commonly give an
allowance to a classroom teacher to purchase supplies for the year they don't just receive money they are allowed to select from a list of things that they can order for their classroom? and anything else can be submitted for approval or they can buy it with their own money and perhaps get reimbursed later. so if our public school teachers
who are longtime education experts have to follow this rules and receive approval for expenditures of public dollars it makes sense that EFA qualifying families would need to meet similar standards we think enhancing this process is a good way to protect or consult taxpayer dollars I also appreciate that the background check process is in place for private school teachers and apparently also for providers that
might provide a education service to homeschoolers we appreciate that the only suggestion we might have at some point is that to consider that any provider of I'm excluding a parent here but a provider that is being paid with EFfa funding
should be a mandatory reporter of child abuse and neglect just in the way that any public school staff and private school staff for that matter are required to be mandatory reporters I think that this just will protect the safety of our children in Arkansas further which I know is something that is important to every one of you that is all I have. thank you for hearing my testimony. youylor. Members any questions?
see no thank you for your time today thanks all right we are moving to Miss
Amanda Ray
Unverified
3:09:19
Hannah Lee. thank you for being here if you want to introduce yourself you'll be
Speaker 478
3:09:23
recognized my name is Hanna Lee and I have3 students enrolled in the EFA
program. This is our we're finishing up our first year as participants and they have benefited from the program being able to take classes tobi curriculum that we've otherwise not been able to do my girls are in4th,7th and 9th grade and I, um, have several concerns about the proposed rules. Many of them have been touched on I'm going to talk briefly about one that I don't think has been
discussed yet and then give a personal, example of one that has and I'll try to keep that brief. so one thing that I am concerned about is um, I believe it's on page 8. it talks about the definition of ordinary and necessary and under the definition of ordinary it says it doesn't include hobbybased hobbybased things. and there's no definition of hobbyba. Now I think we can all agree we don't want to be spending
funds for things that are just fun activities that don't have any educational benefit. but does this include things like wardrobe care and construction, food safety preparation, photography, video basics, programming and animation, graphic design some people might call those hobbies but they're also in the ADdE course catalog under a career and technical education or the lab program. so my question on that part is what is hobbybased manyy
things that are often considered hobbies if you do them an hour a day are considered careers if you do them 8 hours a day. another concern that is very pressing for my family right now is requiring preapproval for reimbursements we used the marketplace and direct pay whenever possible to reduce the amount that's out of our pocket that we have to wait to be reimbursed. but direct pay is limited sometimes we can't find what we need on the
marketplace and we can't use those things for many things including classes and some lessons so right now my family has been waiting on reimbursements some of them are over6 weeks out. Myinth grader is385 dollars. my seventh grader394 my fourth grader 277. If you add that up it's over $1000 out of my bank account or on a credit card that I'm having to make payments on including interest while I wait. that's just not efficient. It's
burdensome for a family like mine. so if preapproval is required for many things, it will delay reimbursements for purchases and lessons that we are taking that are qualified for cover for reimbursement but it will delay things that don't even require preapproval because it will bog down the entire process it'll cause more burden for families like mine and maybe cause them to choose not to enroll in certain things or not make purchases
that would benefit their children's education that would be qualified. it's also preapproval gets tricky when the prices of things change quickly if we want to take advantage of taxfree weekend or discounts sales especially on things like technology that require preapproval, we would not be able to get the price submit for preapproval, get preapproval, make the purchase before the
price changed. so I guess my question is is denial of an expense not protection enough? and I am unsure or I think that has been answered earlier what what the consequences of purchasing prior to preapproval so in the interest of using funds well being unable to buy a laptop that is on sale at a deep discount, would increase the total
spent in the long run using an example from today denying 1/5 laptop for a student is the same result as denying a preapproval for that fifth laptop without bogging down the system for everyone and every reimbursement delaying access to things that are essential like a microscope that would be covered for a science class. so I would just ask you to consider how requiring preapproval would
affect families like mine and how definitions for things like hobbybased activities might be limiting to the options that we have thank you thank you for your testimony
members any questions seeing none thank you for your time today all right we have MissRay
we have5 left left in the queue you're recognized go
Chair
Unverified
3:14:47
and bred Arkansan ive years of homeschooling and this is my second year to utilize the Learns actct I wanna thank you guys for all your hard work and obviously I'm in5 years and so I did3 years without funds and that meant that I had to be very specific on what I could buy and what we could use
and if something didn't work my kid just had to keep grinding through it whether she liked it or not because I used our funds and so this has opened up a lot of opportunities for my children and has given us the ability to find the curriculum that works best for each one of my kids and so if it wasn't for y'all's hard work I wouldn't be able to do that so I appreciate it and one of my biggest concerns about the rule changes is I am subject seven on page 3. it implies that to teach a
cocurricular course I must have subject matter knowledge. I blend and create multilevel science curriculums to teach my children who are4 years apart family style. Our material must be understood by a younger elementary child while still challenging a child in middle school I'm concerned that subject B one on page 45 opens those parents like me to be suspected of misuse of program funds and subjected to audits and investigations the current Arkansas law does not require parents to have formal
training teaching certificates or specific college degrees to educate their children but due to the wording of the new rules, the freedom parents have to teach all subject matters without subject matter knowledge is removed and opens parents up to unnecessary scrutiny and removal from the program and extreme situations criminal prosecution a better understanding of what is considered intentional or unintentional would be helpful. Understanding who and their qualifications for determining what actions are considered intentional and or unintentional
would also be helpful. I personally have had negative experiences with a reviewer which adds to my concerns that reviewers who disagree with parents will be s will automatically suspect that parent of misusing the funds. My second largest concern for the program is the preapproval process you guys have heard several times today about the wait times which went from like a few weeks to a few months and you've also heard that the fact that we can't
utilize cells or Arkansas state or our taxfree weekend in Arkansas and but my biggest concern is the amount of vendors we have leaving our program because they can't financially support their storefront any longer and for example, I have a400 dollars order and that was direct pay that has been sitting in the queue for six weeks it is a corebased curriculum with the educational books attached
and that shop shop owner is currently holding it waiting for it to be approved by Arkansas and so she's just sitting on that money and possibly losing like other customers while pulling back my curriculum and so I have now run into the situation where vendors are telling me they will no longer send me invoices to submit through direct pay because they can't continue to wait two months to get their money and we are a part of a homeschool co op
and that is also a struggle we have to pay registration fees which this year they're allowing us to pay this summer if necessary but last year our co op could not front the materials needed to buy school supplies because the the return on invoices being paid took two months and so it's really hard for these small organizations to continue to be a part of this learns act when the government or the ADE office
cannot get things pushed through the queue and so going in and having to do a preapproval of even noncore materials or core materials it's just bogging down that already behind system. sorry I feel like I threw a lot. I tried to get it all in5 minutes thank you
for your testimony members any questions? I see one Senator Hammer you're recognized for a question you did a
great job first of all you gave us a lot to soak in on. I'm just curious the the
storefront and the vendors that are dropping off you got a you gotta list that you've accumulated maybe of the vendors that are dropping off because of what you just because what we're a while ago in testimony in departmentedd can get ready to come back up this question we throw at him about how many people do the department of edd have that are responding so that you get your approval in a timely manner. there it seemed to me there ought to be a time set where the department ought to have to approve in order not to slow the process down that would be a reasonable balance
between what you need and what they say is approved so that there's equal expectation on the part of the department to respond in a timely manner as there is on you to submit something that should be approved without a lot of delay. Yes, I would love that
Speaker 482
3:20:05
and so a lot of the direct pay you have to go on the website
Chair
Unverified
3:20:10
and then you have to email somebody at that company with a list of what you want from that website so they can create you an invoice that turnaround normally happens either same day or within 24
hours from that company. Then I go online and I submit it intolass wallet and then it takes like6 to8 weeks right now to get it approved and then once they approve it it still takes weeks for the money to actually be received from the vendor. or received by the vendor sorry by the vendor by the vendor yes all right thank you senator and thank you for your
Speaker 485
3:20:42
testimony appreciate your time thank you thank you guys all right we will go to M Rebecca Lee
thank you for being here if you'll
Rebecca Lee
Unverified
3:21:06
introduce yourself for the record you'll be recognize My name is Rebecca lee. I am in the7th grade and finishing my first year as part of the EFA program as a homeschool student. I'm speaking against the proposed rules because they requiring preapproval for reimbursement will slow down reimbursements even more. I want to start music lessons but have not been able to since the reimbursements pro the reimbursement process has been
so slow my family cannot afford to start my lessons until they are caught up. requiring preappro preapproval we will further delay reimbursements and affect many students like me. Thank you. thank you for your testimony. Where where do you live? Conway Arkansas.
thank you for being here today we have a question are you ok taking a question? senator Irving you're recognized for a
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
3:21:59
question. Hi hey I just want to tell you that
you're so brave to come and I'm really proud of you. You did a fabulous job what music are you wanting to pursue guitar and you
live in Cotter Conway conway I'm sorry conway I thought you said cotter OK Conway well, stick around I've got some guitar folks that could help you out for sure because I live in the folk music capital of the world in Mountain View Arkansas. So I just wanted to tell you you
did a great job and we really appreciate you coming here today and being so brave to testify this in itself is a really good educational experience for you. so thank you for coming and sharing your testimony. great job. thank
Amanda Ray
Unverified
3:22:49
you for being here appreciate your testimony thank you all
right next we have Miss Holly is it Hearn I believe OK.
Amanda Ray
Unverified
3:23:08
right thank you for being here if you'll introduce yourself for the record
Holly Hearn
Unverified
3:23:16
you'll be Thank you. good afternoon. My name
Speaker 491
3:23:18
is Holly Hearn I'm an Arkansas citizen and my husband and I were both home educated in Arkansas by our parents and now we are home educating our children this will be our 8th year homeschooling our kids. First, I want to thank the Arkansas state government and the ADE for all their hard work and efforts on creating the EFA program to benefit the education of Arkansas students. We as
parents of Arkansas students are thankful for the opportunity to partner in educating our children. the purpose of the rule as stated is to provide greater educational opportunities for the students of Arkansas and for parents as they seek educational solutions and curricula that fit the needs of their families and I'm concerned that some of the proposed rule changes will do the opposite. I have concern over several rules but my primary concern is the proposed rule changes to require the preapproval for any reimbursements that are not considered core educational expenses what is considered a
core educational expenses subjective especially when it comes to homeschooling and alternative learning settings for students. English language arts social studies and mathematics are a very limited scope of the subjects that should be considered as core education when the preapproval form was first introduced and trialed at the beginning of the 2026 spring semester reimbursement approvals were only 10 days behind in the reimbursement request date as of last Thursday June 11th, the reimbursement category for expenses had only been approved
through April16,2026.reimbursement approvals are currently nearly two months behind the request dates even after a reimbursement approval form was introduced6 months ago. Pre-approval requests are still nearly a month behind at May24th. There have also been parents who have received preapproval after using the form and then still had their preapproved expenses rejected when submitted for reimbursement even though they had received preapproval Use of the preapproval form has clearly not sped up the process of reimbursements or made their reimbursement process more efficient.
Parents are accruing credit card debt late fees waiting for reimbursement and if requests are rejected then items are well past the ir0day reimbursement or return dates for most stores. althoughthough there are options to use marketplace or direct pay for some vendors the reimbursement option is the most economical use of the state funds. Marketplace and direct pay options often come with marked up prices and transactional fees. Many small business vendors have chosen not to participate in the marketplace or direct pay. therefore reimbursement option
is not is oh sorry reimbursement option is the only option to use those vendors and I'll echo someone else in saying that vendors are dropping from the program for direct payy our co op that we attend which is a very large co op in the LittleRock area has chosen not to use direct pay now this coming year even though they've been using it because they're so far behind in receiving their funds with the reimbursement option, parents are able to take advantage of a competitive prices on educational services with goods and then on sales and
discounts which allow for a more prudent use of the state funding.ducational funding dollars are stretched further which then allows a greater use for these funds to educate our students as parents we are so thankful for the EFA program and we want to honor the state by using educational funds wisely if the proposed mandatory preapproval process is implemented the ability to use the funds efficient ly and prudently will be eliminated and many educational opportunities will also be eliminated.alles and discount offers don't last for weeks or months while parents wait for
preapproval. not only that but students will be pushed further behind in their education waiting for educational requests to be approved. Opportunities will be missed because preapproval requests were not completed in a timely manner. Families cannot afford to hold off on educating their children for weeks or months at a time while waiting for preapproval on educational expenses. Every EFA reimbursement request is already reviewed prior to approval so requiring preapproval is redundant and unnecessary with the proposed
rule changes, this program which is intended to provide educational freedom will instead cause educational limitations and stunt the educational growth of Arkansas students thank
you. you M Hearn. looks like we've got a question from Senator Johnson
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
3:27:33
you're recognized appreciate you coming and giving testimony so everything I've heard is about this preapproval and timeliness and and you know educational timeliness a lot of it and
and how fast vendors will be able to get the money so you guys can put more education in the three hours in a public schools at some points can put into the whole day and you know like you know some of the last testimony that you know about preapproval on on the music that's a lifetime of I don't understand you know there's nothing that we have
Speaker 162
3:28:19
said you that you're your homeschool students go that their year round you're educating them year round am I correct? Um,
Speaker 491
3:28:27
a lot of us go on the regular school schedule. My kids are currently on summer break because they already did their school year from fall
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
3:28:36
through the spring but there's nothing, there's nothing that makes that happen is it there's there's no law there's nothing that makes that happen except for your choice right? Uh, yeah I suppose we
Speaker 491
3:28:46
could go all year around if we wanted to
Speaker 492
3:28:50
go all year round but you know why don't we go all
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
3:28:55
year round with public school children. she has kids need a break dost don't do have have year round school but I mean that that that's a choice that that you've made and and the expediency I don't see the you know because of the amount of compact education that you can put in as a homeschooler compared to what they can do in a public school setting because it's personal so and
what was done you've done this for a number of years what did you do whenever there was no reimbursement you know to secondhand textbooks
Speaker 491
3:29:29
I had sheet protectors for math books for my kids I would have to put things into sheep protectors so I could use them from one kid to the next because I could not afford to buy curriculum over and over again for my kids so we just had to make do and get creative and figure out how to make
Speaker 492
3:29:47
it work but is that really what we want for
Speaker 162
3:29:53
our Arkansas students to have to that's your choice you know some schools don't even use textbooks
Speaker 491
3:30:01
they use I don't know tablets whatever they are well I would have had to have the money to purchase a tablet which I did not have so I mean I guess you're putting a lot of financial responsibility on Arkansas parents in that case to be able to homeschool their children but we're all paying tax
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
3:30:16
dollars you know understood that's why you've got the Ffa accounts and and we we are trying to make this work as best
Speaker 396
3:30:24
we can appreciate that and and and you know a two month time window is better than no time window right
Speaker 491
3:30:30
as long as the expense reimbursement is guaranteed but a lot of people are putting their their money or their expenses on credit cards because we don't flat out have just thousands of dollars sitting around in our bank account if we did we probably wouldn't need to participate in EFA to begin with and so then when the reimbursements don't happen for months at a time it accrues credit card expenses and then if that reimbursement is rejected
at the end of the day, then the parents are just out that money and the rules are not defined well enough to be very precise about what is approved or what's not because it's very subjective based on the individual child and what the EFfa deems is necessary for that individual child. So if a parent in the EFA are not in agreement but the parent didn't know it ahead of time there's just a lot of room for issues there so did you
Speaker 162
3:31:21
on curriculum stuff did you did you start this like two months ago
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
3:31:26
trying to figure out what your in the in the fall no I personally started
Speaker 491
3:31:31
planning my curriculum several months ago. but sometimes we change in the middle of the school year as well. Sometimes we start classes at different times or something new comes up there's a lot of
Speaker 257
3:31:45
flexibility there that. Theres a lot of
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
3:31:47
that you you got to give them some grace too whenever you're exercising your flexibility. Yes. whenever you're participating in a program like
Speaker 396
3:31:57
this that that that's all I'm I'm asking and I appreciate with your children and
Speaker 491
3:32:02
I'm not I appreciate everything they're doing and I know they're trying as fast as they can. My point is that preapproval on top of a reimbursement system where, reimbursements are already reviewed before they're approved is not necessary thank you senator we can we can we can try
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
3:32:19
to push those times we can we can help. thank you very much you Senator dotson you recognized
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
3:32:28
thank you Mrir I I'm sorry it didn't completely catch all of your testimony but what was the time frame of you personally getting a
preapproval you said and then how long was it taking and then how long did it take to actually get reimbursed?
Speaker 491
3:32:42
Um, so I'd have to look back at my notes to see if to be specific but the reimbursement Q total right now will you receive an Arkansas Department of Education email weekly that has where they are with dates on direct pay marketplace reimbursement and preapproval. and by the way I'm very thankful
for that email that's very helpful thank you so much AdE for that and I understand they're trying to be as helpful as possible and I am very thankful for them they really are doing a great job in many, many areas so the reimbursement is currently behind 2 months direct pay I believe direct pay is currently behind about a month or so the preapproval is still behind by about a month because it's not required right now to receive preapproval that's in
these proposed rule changes. and then Marketplace I think is only behind by maybe two weeks maybe a little bit less than that so they're a little more
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
3:33:39
caught up with the marketplace but as far as your own personal have you gotten reimbursements or preapproval for reimbursements.
Speaker 491
3:33:46
I have not used the preapproval form for myself this semester because it's not required it's quicker for me to use the reimbursement form by itself without the preapproval since it's not currently a requirement and for most items I haven't bought anything that
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
3:34:01
required the preapproval this year but going forward if this rule is approved you will have to start getting preapproval on some
Speaker 491
3:34:09
of the things that you are doing on everything that's not core curriculum
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
3:34:13
according to the proposed rules, yes. if everything remains the same there's no change in the estimates how much more additional preplanning will that be on
your part in order to get the preapproval like are you thinking through how much in the past backing up how how much sooner you have to start
Speaker 491
3:34:31
doing the preapproval if we go with what the kind of the current cus timeline is in the queue reimbursements are currently two months behind. that's for the actual submission of the reimbursement itself after it's been preapproved. So it would take how allever long it takes to send the preapproval form and have that preapproval approved then the parent has to go submit the reimbursement and then you have to wait for the reimbursement to be reproved which currently the timeline is two months.
so could possibly be3 months,4 months in advance that I would have to know for sure
Speaker 511
3:35:09
I need this item or get it approved even if you have a preapproval is what
Speaker 498
3:35:15
you're saying haven't had that but have seen I'm
Speaker 491
3:35:19
very involved in the EFA Facebook forums and I have seen multiple parents say even after receiving a going through preapproval, receiving the preapproval and then submitting it then they still were rejected
and they had to resubmit and resubmit for until it was finally approved so it took
Chair
Unverified
3:35:39
multiple months. thank you thank you senator Senator Irving you're recognized for a question Oop hold on sorry just
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
3:35:46
thank you just wanted to clarify, I know we've had some testimony previously and I didn't sorry where am I looking I'm sorry right I'm right here
so may pertain to what you said or not but the rule says that parents cannot pay themselves but it does not say that they
have to be qualified to teach their children so I know there's a lot of testimony about subject matter knowledge expertise, things like that. the rule says the parents cannot pay themselves but that that they have to be qualified to teach their children. So I just I wanted to make that clarification number one and then number 2, you know again tweet there's there's so many choices
and I think that people make when you're speaking about the rules make my my suggestion and is to look at them just as objectively as possible because you're choosing to use a credit card. This family may choose to follow Dave Ramsey and not have credit cards just as an example but as we really talk through the rules, I think being specific about how the rules are written and how those things need to be
changed or want we want these these things to be changed being specific about that is really really critical and important outside of opinions of choices made that may be specific to your family or somebody else's family, it would be really great for everyone is to look at these rules as they apply for the whole, you know, subset of of parents that are trying to homeschool their children. So I think it's important to have some documentation perhaps of something that's maybe an
individual case of your own where you're looking at this because everybody preplanns and they may you know, have a choice. I'm just not here for excuses as well it's going to ran rank up credit card debt on me or fees or penalties or whatever. Well now that's a choice you made. I mean, I tell that to my children you know cause I say read the Dave Ramsey books. that's a great educational curriculum by the by the way for anybody's child. So I just I want to just say that out loud because there's such value in
homeschool but let's make sure that we're maintaining our objectivity as well. Thank you.enator rightsenator hammer for the
last question thank you and just give me
a quick education I'll make sure I'm thinking clearly prior to this rule being in in
place you did not have to get preapproval. you just got reimbursed on the hopes that you would be reimbursed is that correct? correct
Speaker 491
3:38:32
you would submit according to your understanding of the EFA rules
and then you would wait for the reviewer to approve or reject your
reimbursement request so previous to this you were buying your supplies, submitting the receipts in the
hopes that you would get approved for what you've already spent the money on is that a correct interpretation? OK. and now they're trying to put rules in where it would be preapproved before you make the purchase is that correct? And I guess what I'm wrestling with and just help me understand because trying to get a holistic look at the same
would it not be better to have rules that require preapproval so that you would not spend money in the hopes that she would get approval only to find
Speaker 491
3:39:22
out that you didn't right so that's this this semester this spring semester in January they created the preapproval form and it was optional so if you thought you were submitting for an expense that you weren unsure that you would or would not receive reimbursement for then you would use the preapproval form which is why I didn't personally use
it because the expenses that I reimbursed for or requested reimbursement for were not in question in my mind and so I went ahead and just used the regular reimbursement process so this semester there was the preapproval form for if you were concerned it might not be reimburse reimbursable or you could just go the regular reimbursement route and hope that you were reimbursed but there was not a a restriction on it was only you could only submit for reimbursement without
preapproval if it was an expense related to social studies, math or English language arts. OK thank you.
thank you senator and thank you for your testimony. right we have two left members Mr Mcoy and is it Miss Neto?
amm I saying that righttto excuse me ok that's our last two Mr. McCoy you recognized first
right if you'll introduce yourself for the record you'll be
Speaker 526
3:40:53
recognized right my name's alicia Netto and I just want to start off by thanking you guys for this program it has been phenomenal for our family and for the community, the homeschool community that I've been a part of we personally homeschool because not all parents work normal 8 to5 jobs and my husband has one of those jobs where he works afternoons evenings and weekends and so if my kids were to go to
a public school or a private school they were not get to see their father and so we chose to homeschool kids need to be with their fathers we so we homeschool regardless that is that is a family choice. with the EFA it has been phenomenal this year we have had so many access to so many different resources and we really appreciate that my kids have flourished this year and I'm just going to
say their test scores show that now it has really been great to see I just want to clarify that of the EFA I'm not going to go into a lot of the stuff because I feel many of those before me have already said that I just want to make it very clear we
Speaker 527
3:42:10
do not touch a penny of the money we have access to it but every penny of that must be approved and it must fall in the guidelines and the rules that have already been set in place and they're very
they're very restrictive and they're very which I understand you need to make sure the money is spent wisely and for the education I just urge you be careful that you do not start veering away from the freedom aspect of this and into the heavy rules and regulations that really start restricting what we are able to spend our money on there is already
Speaker 526
3:42:57
so many different guidelines and it is very like every time I go to purchase something or to sign my kids up for something I'm checking the rules and regulations and some things we just say no because it falls outside of those guidelines a lot of the stuff we are able to and it's been such such a blessing but please be careful that you don't make this even more burdensome to parents because it is very hard it is a lot of work going through all making
sure the things that we are getting reimbursed for are approved and things like that making sure I'm a submitting the appropriate form
Speaker 527
3:43:34
in the appropriate part of the class wallet for the appropriate child on the appropriate month and all of that and it gets very
Speaker 526
3:43:43
very confusing and spends a lot of time but it's worth it because my kids have access to so much more because of it but please our whole goal in all of this is to educate the children of Arkansas
right for them to succeed we want our test scores up we
Speaker 527
3:44:05
want our reading levels up. and if you give especially homeschoolers that freedom trust us we are going to do that for the state we are going to bring your reading scores up. We will bring your test scores up. you've always gotten to see one year's worth of that just wait for the future years, OK? so please treat the homeschoolers not as the stepchild that's unwanted
please help them help our kids of the state to succeed and pour into them. thank you would you like
Speaker 529
3:44:38
to take any questions or no? I can Senatorhammer you're
Chair
Unverified
3:44:41
recognized for a question. thank you and
thanks for your testimony you've articulated very well and you know the it is
a lot of work any any aspect of education regardless whatever level it's going to be homeschool, private school, public school. there's always a lot of work because you deal with the kids. you know
and one thing I think and and part of this is what I'm trying to wrestle with is you know, freedom requires accountability and and you want accountability if you want to be free because you don't want those that may take advantage of something to cost you something down the road. I I think that's the struggle or where we're trying to get the balance is the expect ation what the department of edd feels they need to do to be good custodians of the funds and and you being a good custodian of the funds as well. So I I just want to get that out there. I don't think this is a us versus
them. I think it's where's the balance where we all feel like we're able to get access to what everybody wants but but nobody take advantage of it. So I wanna, I want to go back, I want to ask you a question on the basis of everything I just said from the previous testimony and that is that preapproval. You you can't go out and get a loan for anything unless you're preapproved except for these scams that you know we'll preapprove you before and then they get you in a hole. but on the preapproval, what I'm understanding is prior you didn't have it
but you submitted in the hopes that you would get it and that created some lack of reimbursement because it didn't meet the rules and you sound like a person that you you check before you buy anything. So I want to hear your opinion on the insertion of a preapproval process and there are issues that if it's taken two months that's too long. but I want to hear your perspective on the preapproval aspect of what they're trying to get I would say keep it optional like if you are uns
Speaker 527
3:46:34
ure of what you are requesting falls within the guidelines then yes, get that preapproval but if you know or you've already submitted or something from a prev like why go through extra steps? Why put more people who could be working towards other things working unneedlessly to
Speaker 526
3:46:52
preapprove something that I know is going to be accepted because it falls within the guidelines there are so many guidelines and so I feel like it's it's
unneedlessly putting people to work doing stuff that they could spend their time helping get those times down shorter or other places all right thank you
youenator Senator Irving you're recognized for a question right here too. sorry.
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
3:47:20
I just keep asking questions because I'm so interested in this so before EFA's where did you like
did y'all use textbooks or how where did you get them or are you part of like a co op
Speaker 526
3:47:37
or anything like that? OK so we would purchase one of the most affordable curriculums available and and it's a wonderful curriculum and we also so we would do that but it was the bare minimum. so like the extra readers that would go along with my son's language arts we would not get because that was a that was an expense I did not have to do but these are readers that pair up with what he's learning in his
language arts so it is beneficial it online or is the
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
3:48:11
actual books the actual books if it's actual books and so things
Speaker 526
3:48:15
like maybe in the science I would only buy one student workbook instead of three for my three children and I would just photocopy the pages for those kids so I'm just so I'm just brainstorming because I
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
3:48:28
think it would behoove us you know we have state library board and we have libraries all across the state it would just maybe this is a conversation we need to
have with our state library board to provide you
know, textbooks at your libraries and and then actually I've already approached our library about that and I was turned
Speaker 527
3:48:49
down and I approached them about about having a curriculum lending and they they did not well can't think of a better
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
3:48:57
use of a library than alsos at our homeschoolers could check out. I also approached them about
Speaker 526
3:49:03
getting the readers for the curriculum because it is one of the top curriculums specially
used in our homeschooling community about getting those readers in and they did not do that either so I have tried those avenues which hate
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
3:49:17
to like maybe after this I can come and ask you because I don't want to put you on the spot there but as I was listening to all of y'all's testimony, I was like what resources can we provide you know and and why not use those resources that we give to the state libraries through our state library boards to ensure that you have
textbooks and things that you could check out even like a microscope and things like that. I mean that would just makes sense to me and it would be such a great use of our funds from a taxpayer's perspective and plus you've got libraries all across the state and and I don't
Speaker 527
3:49:54
want to throw our library on the under the bus because they are a fabulous library and like we do have telescopes and stuff like that we can check out and they
Speaker 526
3:50:01
do have a lot of activities and stuff that the kids can be signed up for we do have a phenomenal they just I don't think they had it in their funding to be able
to to do those things or the space or resources to have that available because they
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
3:50:16
did consider it yeah no I appreciate that and and I know that they do but you know it's just something that perhaps that's something we as a legislature
can kind of and and the department and the government can push forward and say hey you know we we want to direct this money that you're receiving and grant money from the state of Arkansas to purchase curriculum for our homeschoolers and to stretch those EFA accounts even more
just thank you I appreciate the collaboration with that discussion and appreciate you know what you're doing on behalf for your kids at the end of the day, family is so critically important and you're basing your decision based on relationship and I just I I really applaud you for for what your statement was about kids needing their dads and their moms so thank you for that and I would like
Speaker 526
3:51:04
to ask you also asked about co ops and stuff I'm also the director of our co op for our area and
because of the EFA we have been able to double our size we've been able to increase all of our teachers and all the teachers I know there's a lot of hesitation over like the qualifications and things and concerns and stuff but as far as like a homeschool parent and a director of the thing, I'm seeking out those who are tops in their field. OK? I am seeking out the music teacher who has her doctorate in piano pedagogy. I am getting that art teacher who has30plus years of experience teaching.
I've got the homeme economics teacher who has her own homestead. I have the taekwondo instructor who is a two time Olympian. like these are the people and I am now able to draw them in because this has been honestly the first year we could actually pay them a decent wage they are taekwondo instructor and previous year he came to us on a temporary thing and we asked him please come, please wait but we could only cover his gas but he was but he was willing
but it was like we will have access to and we don't take we're not gouging we're not trying to become fat and stuff
Speaker 527
3:52:21
we're just trying to pay our teachers a decent amount and to afford the supplies and so we really we strive and I feel like this is the majority of the homeschoolers. we really really strive to use our funds appropriately. like we love this program and we do not want it to
Speaker 526
3:52:37
go away and we want to be good stewards of the money and the funds that you guys have given us we know they're state
funds. we know but these are also state funds that should educate our children and we want to be good stewards of that and so we strive to do the best we can with that and use them appropriately. so I feel like that's the majority the there are people who take advantage um, but there's the guidelines and it honestly it would be near impossible to spend your funds on a trip to Disney. I don't even know how like I don't even know how you would so but anyways thank you
Speaker 495
3:53:16
Senator Johnson last question So you said you were in the co op director and some some
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
3:53:28
have said their co ops are thinking about not partic because of the you know possible 22 month time delay as a director will you speak to that for us? so last
Speaker 527
3:53:39
year we were able to be on the direct pay before they shut that down for
Speaker 526
3:53:47
groups out that were not private schools and that was it the turnaround was much quicker this last semester I just told our teachers it would be a while before we could pay them. and thankfully our teachers are very understanding and very willing but yeah that it can take a while for those invoices to be paid and so our teachers usually I told them this last spring like they get their first check hopefully mid
semester and they're and then the second half of their pay at the end of the semester because
Speaker 549
3:54:23
we just we don't have the funds in and to to pay them before that so you don't
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
3:54:29
pay your teachers every two weeks or monthly? No. Pa is Basically as we get the funds in so have you have you I mean as co op direct do y'all have communications between co ops I
Speaker 447
3:54:43
mean is just something that other co ops are not willing to
Speaker 526
3:54:49
I know a lot of co ops who don't do it, yes yes and and for our area we are the the only co op that I'm ava that I'm aware of who is our size and also taking EFA funds and taking in new students thank
you very much thank you senators thank you Missutto for being here we have one more on the on the list Mr. Mcoy. thank you thank you for for your
brevity there right members we've heard from the comments from the public does anybody have any questions for the department OK if we could have
Speaker 130
3:55:28
Mr. Smith come back up right Senator Hammer you're recognized when
they get back up these are going to
be rapid fires so short answers great answers are you under as a department
are you guys restricted or put
under timeline that you have to respond in the approval process you've heard the testimony that summer are having to weighed extensive amount of time so are you self-imposed in the legislation or in the department to respond by a certain time not in the legislation no sir do you think it'd be appropriate and what would it take resource wise for you to be able to respond in a to to reply for approval process in a more timely manner, say30 days. or would you get that well I think we can do that in30
days within the in our existing system I think we've got a couple of things that are working against us I think thelass wallet platform right now has created a lot of this
a lot of this and inefficiencies that are creating that are that we're seeing what I'm sorry what platform la thelass wallllet platform the one that dministers yes sir the vendor he said yes sir what what's being done to improve that so we have been working with Class wallet over the last 7 to8 months
on trying to work on these inefficiencies that we were anticipating being in place at the beginning of the school year
as we went through the school year and the volume of requests have come in these inefficiencies began to kind of show themselves a little bit more right and so then that that's created this backlog that you've been that you've been ex that our parents have been experiencing and trust me we are just as frustrated with this some of this timeline as they are but we are working diligently so that by the start of the program in August of next year of of the twenty6th school year to get back to that under 30 day review time and processing time.
and are there items that are just automatically preapproved laptops and maybe the microscope illustration used today somebody might buy 100 somebody might buy, you know,500 laptops. Some might buy one you know,300
somebody buy3000. I think the new rules are
going to help us with that because the core educational expenses when you have all that side that's that's done that's almost automatic I mean unless it's just something that's just unreasonable in cost the the non core educational expenses I mean I think we're gonna get better at which was the which was where everybody's talking about that preapproval
process we're gonna make that a much s more streamlined process than it is right now because it is a kind of a pilot right now and we're gonna make that a much more streamlined process which will then make the review process and the approval process much faster on the back end so so that's that's how we that's why I feel like we we will be able to get it within that30 days starting in August and I know we passed
legislation and you pfas out there and it's almost like you're having to reel some things back in based on real life experiences that's my perception if I'm wrong on that,
you know and and we've got these rules that are coming in to adjust as we go the it was mentioned, you know, the Disney World trip and some other things that had been in the paper were all those preapproved by the department or do you know if they were preapproved? I don't know that we've ever had a Disneyland trip approved so if that would have happened then that meant that the parent themselves would have done it in the hopes they'd get
reimbursed yes sir first of all we don't we would have never been reimbursed but because it goes completely against all EFA rules right and and there's always a few bad apples and everything. I don't
care what it is so you might pay for the sins of others and then the last question I would have is and it may sound too simplistic but I got to ask it is what is it that's driving these rules? I mean why why why these rules now? why why are we having to go through all this now and why is the department come forth with all these rules now because you got to be able to justify we got to be able to justify, you know, approval of the rule. So give me give me some perspective from the departments why these rules
now yes sir I think it's a great question I think that the biggest for me I think we're trying to clarify some things I think in the previous rules we needed to be more clear because you I think you heard parents go we're not really sure what's approved, what's not approved, what's what should be what's going to be reimbursed what's not going to be real so the rules help us clarify they're helping to align more to the intent of the rules which was the to to create an educational opportunity for all parents that choose it and I think we want to be more consistent so those are probably the three words that I would use
for the reason why these rules exist would be dec to clarify to align and to be more consistent so that parents can feel more comfortable as they go through the process of what item can I buy, what item can I not buy, what item's going to be reimbursed which one's not what item is a core educational expense and what items not acquire educational spent so the rules are helping us define those things better and so by doing that we'll make the process more efficient because we can help educate parents better on what is and what is not allowable OK and I appreciate that and the sports thing is a whole separate thing
we're kind of focused on the preapproval of and it does bleed over in the sports thing but reading the room if I'm not misreading the room, part of the frustration or the concern or the caution is that it will be limiting to parents based on their personal experience of the reimbursement of which they've turned in some of which were preapproved but then when they turned them in they got deni ed and that seems to be a disconnect maybe misinterpretation, misapplication or a disconnect within the department and and it seems to me that the
reimbursement if we're going to oppose these rules has got to improve to where if it if it is preapproved that they can they can get the reimbursement quicker than dragging this out for for60,70 whatever days it's just just gonna create an unnecessary financial burden on them that I do not think is fair to impose on them if they're doing everything they're supposed to do the department needs to get the turnaround quicker and if it's the vendor problem let's have a committee meeting and bring them in the room and toss them around the room a while thank you Senatorhammer.
Chair
Unverified
4:01:28
Senator Rice and Senator dotson our last two questions. Senator Rice, you are recognized thank you see we've lost some of the department
Senator Terry Rice
Unverified
4:01:34
if they didn't hear everybody testified that did a great job thank you Mr Chair for the time allowance please you get them to go back and watch you replay that they were here courtney wanted me to express my a lot of conversation going on with peoples testifying but there's enough of them cover some good stuff I'm just trying to get the real world we had common people have to live in
the real world and and all of them say they appreciate the the program it's great and and y'all may be doing all you can but when I'm hearing delays and delays and some of them may be because preapproval not made or or whatever the problem is can you come back Friday and somebody from the department sit there and say this is the main thing we've heard time wise approval wise denied it twice after it was
approved and and then finally paid it can you come back and set that table and publicly say we're going to fix this within a certain amount of time or and we're gonna getlas wallet or whoever down here to to to make their statement too if it's necessary and and let's cover the biggest part of what I've heard today could y'all come back and make a statement Friday? Sure I mean I've certainly what we're we're gonna
do our very best to fix what we what we have
control of or fixing and then you know and again withlass wallet has assured us that they will have the those pieces that we we anticipate having ready by august that we have had that discussion they have committed to us that they will have these some these these features that are necessary in place so but so yes I mean we're you know we're gonna do everything we can because we we do understand the frustration and I appreciate the homeschool population certainly appreciate those that have taken time out of their family and out of their life to
be here to testify and to spend time with you all today they are very real concerns and we take those very those concerns very personal and we take them very real we have heard their concerns we understand what the frustrations are and we are doing everything that we possibly can in our power to address those concerns the the preapproval not reimbursement thing I I don't know where that came from because I don't that's that's the first I've heard of it the only way I could possibly say that that would be a possibility is that if something was approved for500
dollars and they send us a reimbursement for $1000 then maybe you know there's some disconnect there because what was preapproved may or may not have been you know, outside the scope of what was preapproved but other than that you know we we understand that the reimbursement process is slow some of that a lot of that is because of the process that we have to go through that the vendor the vendor platform forces us to do the the questions that we you heard
today about the the the vendors that are considering not being part of the program because of the the time frame and is is because of the direct pay process thatlass wallet is makes us go through it's a very cumbersome long process to for a vendor to do an application to send it I mean to of invoice to send it to a parent arent to upload it's a very cumbersome process that is unnecessary and so we we've you know've I've spent I mean I've done5 town
hall type meetings with homeschool parents to hear their concerns and to listen and try to explain the rules and where and where they you know where the frustrations are and where the pain points are and so we want to address those pain points OK thank you sir and
Senator Terry Rice
Unverified
4:05:20
and it'd be up to you to refer it and be up to the council chairs to do it but I would like a public statement from the department of ed and again I think they're doing the best thing they can but I'd like for that to be heard by the entire
ALC membership that they're committing to to try to get this done and iflas wallet when we vote for that type expenditure I expect them to deliver. and it if you want to do that or I can ask
for it Friday for them to come up but I I would like a public statement to the full council
thank you senator. I think that would be wise for a maybe a
motion or a statement in in full Alc at that time ok we've got two left in the queuesenator dotson you're recognized
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
4:06:11
thank you Mr Chair. I just want everything that I was gonna ask has been said
so I just wanted to reiterate and thank you for your attention to trying to get those wait times down and get things moving as long as it expediently as possible if there's anything we can do to help please let us know if you need any public statements of support to to letlass wallet or whoever it is that is the holdup let us lend our voices to that thank you sir
Chair
Unverified
4:06:44
thank you senator Senator Irving you're recognized
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
4:06:46
yeah not to belabor this but that's an appropriate subject matter for education committee to
take up so if the education committee wants to call a meeting about specifically that andlass wallet as the vendor then that's where that should go. I don't do not want to relitigate this for Friday Alc and I don't think that's appropriate if people wanted to have input on this rule then they should have come to this meeting and sat here
like I did all afternoon long. So I do not and I hope that the chairs of ALc will understand that I don't want this relitigated. I don't think the Department of Education needs to come back before full legislative council and relitigate this rule unless there's a a motion that's made and a motion passes for that to occur, I I don't I wanna say what I believe as my statement it's up to the department how they want to respond but I do not want this
to be relitigated on Friday. Today was the opportunity to do so and I think
we need to move forward. you senator members thank you for your time and
and as we wrap up this conversation I think I'll echo some of the comments I've heard and to to the agency and to our guests who spent all afternoon with us today thank you for being here no matter what the will of this body is we'll figure that out in a minute
I hope you have seen a719 pages of comments as hitting a nerve and it changes hard all of the learns act is is change and that's we're all learning that together as a state but I think the word of caution is as we continue to make changes please listen to folks when they when they raise their hands as because there will be more changes there will
be more feedback and that's that's intentional we have this process intentionally
so thank you for being here members I don't see any other
questions in the queue so without objection, there will be reviewed and right members we are moving to
thank you for being here members we are moving to number one on your agenda number one is the Arkansas Public Service Commission wind and Energylo rules
right thank you for being here thank you for waiting sorry you're at the end of the agenda please introduce
Speaker 558
4:09:35
yourself for the record and you'll be recognized. thank you so much Danny
Hofer chief of staff for the Arkansas Public Service Commission.
thank you members this is page one in the agenda on the summarized rules you are recognized
Chair
Unverified
4:09:51
for rule oneA. thank you so much the APSC presents its windgy development rules promulgated
pursuant to actct945 of2025, the Arkansas Wid Energy Development Act. Act945 provides direction regarding permitting siding, decommissioning notice requirements environmental review and other aspects of wind energy because the legislation was prescriptive, the commission's approach to implement the act as written and excuse me the commission's approach was to implement the act as written and to add procedural detail only where the statute specifically the directed the commission to do so.
the rules are organized around the major requirements established by Act945 and mirror the axx permitting decommissioning installation, interconnection and enforcement requirements where additional provisions were adopted they are either procedural or administrative in nature and intended to facilitate implementation and enforcement of the act I can walk through some of the subparts if that is helpful subpart two of the proposed rules addresses permitting and application requirements. It
incorporates the ax permitting framework and establishes the procedures that applicants must follow when seeking commission approval. Subpart3 addresses operational and installation standards Act945 directed the commission to promulgate rules governing the operation of wind energy facilities in response the commission established minimum installation requirements including provisions related to turbine spacing communications interference and certain safety measures subpart fo addresses decommissioning the statute
contains extensive requirements concerning decommissioning obligations and financial insurance are proposed rules establish the procedures for filing cost estimates maintaining financial security and updating decommissioning information over the life of a project. Subpart five addresses interconnection Act945 directed the commission to establish requirements related to grid interconnection. Our proposed rules require applicants to provide documentation demonstrating the status of any applicable interconnection agreements
subpartix establishes compliance and enforcement procedures are proposed rules provide the commission with mechanisms to verify compliance with statutory and regulatory requirements including inspections and investigations when appropriate. the commission received substantial part public participation during this rulemaking. the commission carefully reviewed all comments and all comments that were received during this process and addressed them through the rulemaking process.
And I am more than happy to answer any questions that y'all have. thank you thank you for the for the description. Members we have48 signed up to speak on this bill on this rule. I'm just kidding. OK we have a few questions umpeaker Evans you are recognized for a question. Thank you
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
4:12:49
Mr Chair. thank you Danny.'s been a long afternoon so I'll try to make this quick for you. So before a project begins does there have to be approval from let's say the FAA does there have to be approval
Speaker 564
4:13:03
FfaA before a project can actually begin
Speaker 566
4:13:07
anywhere in the state as part of the application that they must submit to the publicervice commission one of the requirements is I'm trying to find the exact page but it is it it it is a an FAA statement essentially that the the specific area has been
sorry, I'm trying to point you to the page I thought I had my rules tapped out
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
4:13:40
super well but so does the so let's say I'm going to put a project in lo
Speaker 569
4:13:47
an o ke County so do I go get that FfaA approval or does every landowner who is going to lease land for a wind turbine to be put on there that they have to go get that approval. This is a
Speaker 562
4:13:59
requirement for the applicant. so the applicant is going to be the
Speaker 566
4:14:05
operator, the operator, maybe the owner um, but it it's going to it's it's going to be a requirement for the individual or individuals or entity that's operating the facility. which could be one of the landowners
Chair
Unverified
4:14:29
If if they had an ownership in the facility itself particularly if they had a majority
Speaker 566
4:14:35
ownership, and and it was structured that they were also, um, functioning as the operator but not if they were just I mean if if they were leasing
Speaker 562
4:14:45
the land the the onus is not put on them if it's their land that they are
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
4:14:51
leasing to is it possible that a project could start without
Chair
Unverified
4:15:01
FAA approval. not well I mean conceptually yes a project could start based on
Speaker 566
4:15:07
when it has to be how far along it has to be when it's brought to the publiclicervice commission. it is not ripe for an application until there has
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
4:15:16
been FfaA review. so I I know this is totally separate from the huge cryptoine issues that we've been dealing with here in the legislature for the last however many years but I know that back during session there was a lot of controversy about wind power. I mean there was very divisive one side for one side against. there was a lot of give
and take. there was some compromisesed language that was agreed to but in in that language and then through the rulemaking process do and like so like in the crypto issue it was put back on the counties the decorum courts develop moratoriums create a checklist of things that had to be done by I think the word you're using the operator the person who's going to put the project in there were certain things that they had to do before project
could happen. That was in has that been done in this process where through the through the legislation or through the real process de quorum courts ultimately have the ability in a county to approve or disapprove of a project. I am not
Speaker 566
4:16:27
aware of any anything that would preclude local whether it's a quorum court or any other form of local regulatory body. from from setting standards of their
own. I'm looking to see here exactly what we've gone ahead and asked in terms of inclusion with our permits here
s s ent ial ly what I'm trying to get you in what I'm trying to find an answer for you on if I can find one is whether we've set a requirement that there be some sort of local
Chair
Unverified
4:17:21
approval, but that's something that I can get back to you on rather than you watching me
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
4:17:25
flip through this sorry no no you can just text me, call me whatever's convenient for
you. thank you very much thank you Mr Speaker Senator Irvin you are recognized for your question
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
4:17:35
thank you our crop dusters regulated under the FfaA.
Speaker 566
4:17:41
that is not a question that I I have an answer for you on.
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
4:17:50
I'm sorry that's not something I have firsthand knowledge of. all right and then under this rule exemption status is determined by the PSC correct? there's not you you so even if a project is in construction under construction currently in the state my I I rep I read Representative
Eaton's comments in the public comment and so he referred to two different projects that it was the intention of the legislation as he was the house sponsorsenator hester was the senate sponsor that there were just really only two projects that would be considered perhaps to have exemption status but they're not named in the legislation nor are they named in this rule that would still require them to go
through an exemption determination status by the PSC is that correct?
Speaker 559
4:18:47
So what during the rulemaking process we
Speaker 566
4:18:50
had a number of potential wind facilities seek clarification of whether or not their facility would qualify for an exemption and truthfully I believe it was more than 2. the process that we outlined for them at that point was that we did not feel that the rulemaking was the appropriate
place to deem an individual eligibility or exemption because we want these rules to live long term. so we we don't want to have to necessarily go back and change them or have them name a single a single project what we instead encouraged them to do and I believe one has already initiated the process is we encourage them to file for declaratory judgment with the PSC OK and but under
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
4:19:39
these rules and this order you would go through a process of determining
Chair
Unverified
4:19:45
yes I mean we're we're we're going yes got you and that exemption is based you know strictly on what is spelled
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
4:19:54
out in statute, right? and I just topresentative Evans question I think on the bill on page two it does allow for local legislative body and to have the opportunity to adopt local legislation addressing the construction of wind energy facilities so long as it's they don't establish criteria of a local permit that are less
restrictive than what's stated in state law. so that's on page two in the top of page three. so so I think that they can from my read of the of the law do that local legislative body I mean that's not I guess it's not
restricted to county or city, I guess both could do it county and city are OK. I just
last thing I want to say is thank you for the hard work on this. and I also want to thank all the people that
commented on the previous role and on this one there was a lot of comments from people in the public and that are super concerned about tourism our the effects of tourism also just adversely affect your definition I think of adversely affect is a really good addition to this rule. I hope that any kind of water run off through lots of over construction and particularly the parts of the the Ozarks and the national forest and on top
of mountains that's really really concerning to me because of the numbers of rock slides we have and the cars region of you know our cave system and our cave infrastructure and that particularly exists up in the Ozarks I really hope that you know you will use that definition as broadly as possible and just want to thank Dave Schumacher for his public comments as well asalta Bevins and some of the others that really took a particular interest in making a
comment about my area of the state of Arkansas and the Buffalo River and and that area and we take a lot of precautions as it relates to our endangered species of bats because we have a thriving cave system with blanchard spprings caverns and so all of that really does matter when it comes to these projects. So
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
4:22:06
I just wanted to make those comments and I really appreciate the hard work that y'all did. thank you. thank you senator. M members any other questions
see none this without objection this rule is
reviewed and approved. thank you thank you so much members just a quick reminder thank you again for the long day.ppreciate your attention and and duty here today. we are meeting again Thursday at 10 a.m. that's not normal we normally don't meet on Monday we added a day in due to the length of the agenda and reports that will be ready on Thursday. So Thursday 10 a.m. seeing no further business we stand in adjournment thank you
Agenda
A. Call to Order
B. Rules Filed Pursuant to Arkansas Code § 10-3-309
C. Adjournment
Documents
No documents posted.
Speakers
Senator Tyler Dees Chair
Unverified
Representative Nicole Clowney
Unverified
Speaker 20
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Matt Gilmore
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Representative Justin Gonzales
Unverified
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Chair
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Senator Kim Hammer Chair
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Senator Justin Boyd
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Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
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John Claykirtley
Unverified
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Julia Taylor
Unverified
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Senator Terry Rice
Unverified
Dan Parker
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John Clay
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Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
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Representative Mary Bentley
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Senator Jim Dotson
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Representative Wayne Long
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Senator Jonathan Dismang
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Stephanie Nichols
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Representative Les D. Eaves
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Cherise Beavers
Unverified
Jerry Cox
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Heather Marie
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Senator Breanne Davis
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Amanda Ray
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Rebecca Lee
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Holly Hearn
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