Education Committee- House

For the school funding so we'll run those and we'll come back and start at the top again at eleven o'clock without objection from any of the members we're going to start own thirteen seventy one eleven or before if we get there before will start earlier and I've been telling some of the testimony people back there that to which started eleven so they didn't have to just hang in there for every little thing so is there anybody objects that. Seeing none DM you're recognized to present S. B. one oh seven. And do you have someone you want to bring up with you do. All you have a book on your table computer science education advance ment Act of two thousand twenty one. You will look through that that is kind of pertaining to what she's going to be talking about. You're recognized Mister chair with your permission can I take off my mask you may. That is totally up anybody testifies fielded massless that's fine. Thank you it's just easier to talk that way and good morning Mister chair co chair and committee I would like to first thank the governor's office and the department of health for working with the superintendents and representative David tallit to come up with a compromise in which they all felt like they could live with so I am very appreciative to that and because of that I think we came up with that better bill so I would like to start with that when I think back to whenever I was in school probably when you were in school we had keyboarding but not much computer and now I wish we will everybody but maybe Fred Love down there I mean he's he's played a lot younger than me so As so. I wish though that I would have had computer classes to prepare me for today and how today's market would be and how and the jobs that would be available through computer these are jobs that you can work from home. And build economic development in your own town and spend good quality time with your family. And computers are not going away they will continue to be the jobs of the future of our students no longer compete with Arkansas students Texas students Missouri students Tennessee students are students compete worldwide and this bill will help with that and. At. I do believe that this bill will help prepare our students for the future truly prepare them for the future we're not talking about them one one certain type of jobs there are lots of jobs in this field and they'll be sixty different pathways that they can actually get this one credit and they can also do a flex credit which means that. In the eighth grade they could actually get the credit for this graduation it couldn't replace one math one science. And career focus so it wasn't like they limited it down to just a computer class they broadened it to where it would be much easier for the students to get this course and with that I'm closed. That's what you want to say that these good questions okay all right. Okay K. love McKenzie I'm sorry representatives. Sometimes his first name sometimes last. Thank you Mr chair Was the language I was curious about you just it can replace one math one science and one what was that. Focus career focus meant was that in the bill. That is not part of the bill representative that is actually a rule that we've had in place on the computer science flex credit now for four years. Follow. Okay so that it won't require than any extra credits for these students and I guess is that the norm that we don't put the the language in the bill that it's not going to the that can be used in place of the math science or Kerr credit. That would be correct thank you Mr. A person makes recognized. Hey Mister chairman and. The tech that's a technology guidelines for what we're doing here question that I have is kind of a follow up to represent McKenzie on the replacement of a math and science is the math and science is going to be lost going to be somehow made up or incorporated into these courses or if a math and sciences lost does a student choose what math and science not to take does you know we lose our biology what what what are we what are those classes that can you kind of don't under that a little bit faster thank you yes representative thank you for the question the math has anti if you would go in or do something like we've done it Anthony Allen state park Arkansas department of education chiefs skews me director computer science start giving my old title but yes representive the map that would be replaced on this would be the fourth year map credit so they cannot replace algebra one geometry or algebra two as a small core student they also cannot replace biology as their three science that biology will always help is currently required in this cannot replace that it replaces one the two physical science requirements under the sites and then career focus obviously it can be if they have their for mapping their three science then it rolls over to career focus. Any other questions of representative I got for. Yes and I think my question's exactly like representative makes but less about the class itself but more about the curriculum the standards that are being missed three those natural science and and mathematics classes I looked I pulled the computer science standards and looks like there's a little bit of crossover in the taxes and skills and and practices that are being taught through computer science I'm just wondering if you can talk about some of those kind of key concepts and and key ideas that will be missed in. You know those upper level math classes or indoors science classes now that we're kind of replacing those classes when the computer science. So yes ma'am thank you let me let me be clear that it is completely up to the student and the school to determine the best needs for that student and we we say that first and foremost if the student is going to a four year university to be an engineer we want them to take that fourth level math if they're going to be a chemist we want them to take three S. three sciences and then that that computer science credit would roll over to a career focus which all students are required to have six however to your question when we wrote these courses they are they are centralized around algorithmic thinking computational thinking and problem solving which when you get into upper level math I was a math teacher really that's what we're trying to teach students with those upper level math students is how to approach new problems finally entry point and find a solution this is another method of teaching those same concepts follow up. So the student could take four years of advanced math for years of Indian science and then the computer science as an elective or as a career credit is that correct yes ma'am so we require six career focuses in this can be one of those six great thank you thank you Mr. Russified you have a question. Okay Richard brown. Okay. Rosa makes you recognize you. One more for it one of the concerns we did this early on was having enough qualified teachers and I know especially in our small small rural schools that is been the issue where are we at with that to make sure the schools are equipped to be able to handle these requirements. Yes thank you representive I'm happy to say that we have made tremendous strides in that and that's part of the reason we feel confident as an agency bring this bill I am asking representative bought Care this bill find supportive of it because we have grown our I certified teacher pulled from around fifty when the initiative started to over five hundred and fifty now and the majority of our resources that y'all have graciously given to our office continues to focus on expanding that teacher capacity impact we just announced years they are new teacher academy that were launching this summer which is gonna be a great option for getting the teacher certified also. Your. anybody else. Any other questions follow sorry. You're recognized. Thank you Mr chair along the line of questioning of representative weight makes sorry about that. one of my districts smaller world district was concerned that same thing said they may have to go with the online option which I wonder how well that really works for kids with this type of course and also the suggestion that maybe have credit would be easier for them as opposed to a full credit and I also have a follow up. So yes ma'am to meet the part of this bill the two major requirements are the one credit requirement for student graduation and then every school to employ a certified CS teacher so break those two in a apart based on your question the partial option would meet the requirement we are pouring resources behind expanding those options not just their virtual Arkansas we do utilize them for quite a bit and schools have access to those we pay for computer science access to those courses but we're looking at additional options a state upskill for example we have three courses through upskill program that that teaches students how S. with development and that can be utilized for these credit may also get nine credit hours there's a a variety of courses that meet that to the certified staff member and portion this requirement a legislation we are we have extreme flexibility we have over forty pathways to get teachers certified in computer science most of those are free to the teacher outside of time and resources to study but we just added also our classified staff certification technical permit we're a small school district and this was actually part of representative told lance request when we were speaking with him and I again want to thank him like representative Bob it for his his coming to the table with this but we can actually take a classified staff member put them to training or industry certification process and they can teach these first year courses and then work toward being able to teachers of our upper level courses so a small school district like represent all at he said that would be ideal for him that he could take a classified staff member meet that certified requirement and then leverage that personal long with partial Arkansas to meet the needs of the students. All. Thank you one more question with regard to some feedback I got was yes it's a good idea we like it. Y. eight mandated and put in the law as every good idea doesn't need to be in law and as I was thinking if there I thought is that we need this because otherwise if they can offer this it's got to be an additional credit where is this is given today we do we need this legislation to give them leeway to say you can have this course in place of one of these math or science credits. So the reason I that the agency I think supports this legislation are that the agency supports this legislation secretary he has said this before at some point in history this body or somebody of of rule makers decided that every student should have out of everyone that every student should have biology that every student should have certain mass certain social setting certain different courses based on the needs of our society and what our society is going we're facing a fifth technological a revolution the jobs that are out there today are gonna be replaced by automation they're gonna be replaced by robots by computers we need to have a populace that is understanding of that I was just reading this morning I know in the Senate floor but there was a lot of consideration about what about construction what we require construction well I found this morning the world's first three D. printed housing community is currently in the works in California it's a fifteen million dollar community of three D. printed homes they won't look any different than what you currently live in but they will integrate smart systems and they will be produced with forty percent less cost and ninety nine percent less waste and construction computers and the integration of technology and how they work together to create something new is the purpose of this legislation and what we're trying to get our students to understand. Thank you. I'd like to see the results on a construction project so you do away with what is. Since we have a little problem that it seems like there's always waste or any other questions. Seeing none. I have no one signed up to speak for or against this bill on the sheets is there anyone in the room I would like to speak against the bill. For the bill was like close a close from a bill and I make a motion to pass all right she's close with a motion to pass is there any discussion on the bill. Represent Brown. I'll keep it short. I just wanna say aye I support this bill whole heartedly there is nothing that we do today that does not require some comprehension of computers and computer science is not a scary thing and I think dispelling the fear. Is have major. Major importance and I know cabinet makers everybody under the sun has to use a computer these days and I do support this bill thank you. Any other discussion. Seeing none all in favor say aye. He opposed no congratulations you're patched your bill and a lot shorter time that Senator English did. All right ladies gentlemen we're gonna skip down Russian Lowery will come back and pick you up in a little bit we're gonna skip down to sixteen fourteen and sixteen seventy seven I'll turn it over to the great vice chair that I have representatives. resent Cozart you're recognized president house bill sixteen fourteen. Thank you Mr chair preshow to the day of each and everyone of you we're here to present sixteen fourteen and this is a active up to amend provisions of the code concerning state foundation funding and aid to teacher salary equalisation fund so what this basically does this is going to be a I will let the Secretary key speak to a lot of this this is a. A bill this going to actually bring the medium salary level of our teachers up and this is something we work hard and long. And a lot of compromise up to to get the the funding where it needed to be and I'll just give you a little of the. Just of it back in last year we were doing our adequacy study we have fifteen million dollars that we put that at the very bottom for for a salary compensation and we were we're doing it to help the schools that needed to be builder salaries and we fix the fix the gaps and things like that so we come up with a different way that we think works better and actually hit the schools and help the teachers a whole lot more and so I'm going to turn it over to secretary Kiel let him explain how we're going to do that. Thank you Mr chairman Johnny key department of education so you all know during the Lake View the series of Lake View suits in the final ruling the court identified that two ten total deficiencies in the our state school funding system and two of those centered around teacher salaries teacher salaries not comparable to surrounding states and teacher salaries that very much despair it skews me disparities in teacher salaries within the state of so that was again two of the very important principles that the court said we needed to tackle as the General Assembly and as a state last year and the latest numbers that are certified numbers according to the national education association data and this is the same source that is used by the B. L. R. in its studies of the Arkansas's average teacher salary in fiscal year twenty was forty nine thousand eight hundred twenty two. I didn't I want to go over the numbers but they're they're in the bill are report if you wanted to see it but in comparison with other states Arkansas is now in the lowest quartile in S. sorry be states for average teacher salary. one we have done great work in moving the minimum teacher salary that is true. I guess what other states have to other states have been doing the same thing we've been doing and at an accelerated rate from Arkansas. in in the disparities within the state in twenty nineteen the gap between the highest average salary. Is which was sixty thousand nine sixty three fable school district and the lowest average salary was thirty nine thousand five hundred seventy eight was twenty one over twenty one thousand dollars I think that lowest average teacher salary was let Hill I'm not mistaken. You also know when you hear it from you principals or superintendents the Bill our surveys M. every adequacy study as a part of that study and the two top. The issues that they have that they report is difficulty in offering competitive salaries we'll both of those groups two groups present those as barriers to recruitment and retention. for the teacher's you look at the bill our teacher salaries of the respondents forty seven percent answered higher salary when these **** were asked under what conditions would you be willing to relocate to teach at a school in high poverty or remote rural community. Nearly forty four percent said higher pay when they were asked are you considering transferring to another school or district and why. We have done great work we have more to do this bill helps us do that the governor before back in the fall he asked me. to you know come up with a plan how can we start tackling the average yes we want to keep working on the minimum but we have to start looking at the average salary. So we modeled some of increases what would it take for a thousand dollar average salary not a thousand dollar increase for every teacher but what it takes to move the average up by thousand and in two thousand. And we per we came up with the concept of and we worked with the chairman Cozart worked with with with Senator English worked with senator Irvin we worked with that one your former members of this committee a representative Eubanks and and represent of eleven to come up with bridging that gap between what you all had adopted as part of your acts the study in the fall and what this proposal would do what this does is creates a new categorical it's a categorical just like ESA funding like professional development like a LED so it's it's not in the top level of the matrix you know that's where we always put the the effort on trying to get teacher salaries up historically and it really hasn't gotten us where we need to be but this new categorical will be distributed on an ATM basis to districts that qualify for just like we do with other categorical funds of M. for FY twenty two based on our modeling this is a hundred eighty five dollars per eighty. A we will review the salary data each year provide that information to you all for the districts and charter schools whose average teacher salary fall below the target average which FOR FY twenty two and twenty three is fifty one thousand eight twenty two. and determine which of those districts are eligible for teacher salary equalisation categorical funding. Like other categorical funds it will be restricted under this law the funds can only be spent on teacher salaries they can't just go into the general fund to be used for whatever. unlike the educator compensation reform funding that we passed in twenty not that you all passed and funded in twenty nineteen that was the sixty million dollars that was set aside to help bridge the gap is districts I met the new minimum salary schedule and the cliffs as many of you probably have heard from your superintendents this is ongoing funding it it does not create cliffs it helps fill in the cliffs that many of these districts have expressed concern about and for FY twenty two we a product we estimate that will be a twenty five million dollar increase. The fifteen million dollars that you all have put in as part of your recommendation and an additional ten million dollars that will come from the public school fund we have analyzed this many of you say well we're that two million dollars come from we have been watching monthly as our adequacy funds come in and compare that to our projections from last fall when we provided information to the governor's office for the balanced budget and we are confident that this two million dollars is is solid for ongoing funding along with the fifteen million that to you all put in there so with that I will stop and see if the president Cozart has any additional comments and be glad to answer questions. And like I said this this was an ongoing project we were we were really concerned about some of our schools and that's why we put that fifteen million in their last year it was quite a few of us that had worked on that real hard and and. When sector key came to us with with this proposal we we resisted really bad and I hate saying that but we did and then when the longer we talked about it we worked it out we got a good plan because a lot of it was going to be taking more money out of our attics the fund I did want to see that so we finally figured out a way to just to use the fifteen that we set aside for school salaries to use that so that was really. Like the governor said I think we got everything we wanted maybe plus some of and so we thanks to represent Eubanks and and represent eleven and others in this committee that the work with us on this we we fought for school VOL for teacher salaries and we got what we think is going to be the best plan for him so with that we'll take any questions. President of major recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chairman and looking at this I I definitely agree this is an issue and I appreciate the work you've done all this I've got to concerns I wonder if you might I might address for me first off. the target according to this shall be set by the education committee's the joint education committees House or Senate but there's no limits on that is is that just something no guidance or or can you kind of speak to that a little bit because of what I don't want to do is the future General Assembly to the side that or future Education Committee decide that you know our teachers need to be making two hundred fifty thousand dollars a year and suddenly we broke the bank but it so can you can speak to that one first. Sure can the. This all falls within the realm of the General Assembly is responsibility in defining adequacy and meeting the needs of adequacy so the there will be data as you I mean we derived this from day to you all the previously been getting that is in the report every two years right and that will continue to be the data that the NEA dated all states look at that I would I would to. Suggests that that would be the the way that you would have that conversation each year or each two years every two years of knowing that it's always a moving target right you know we've we've it might be fifty one eight twenty two for the next two years you all may decide it needs to be fifty three but I don't for see a wild at anything that gets out of the norm of where the Supreme Court said we need to be looking and that's those two areas the disparities within the state and comparability with surrounding states my and my second question or concern is related to the money we're putting into the matrix could we be creating a situation where school districts instead of working to make sure their teachers are paid at an adequate level they fall back on this so that the state ends up picking up a larger and larger portion of that tab. that's a great question I'm glad you asked that actually because of of legislation you all passed last session of I say that is a very unlikely situation we made changes to the educational excellence trust fund mechanism in twenty nineteen that that had been the mechanism cents probably the early nineties maybe late eighties that was intended to drive more money out of the matrix what was in the foundation funding then before the matrix even to teacher salaries that mechanism is still there and it is Even a little more explicit on what they need to do to make that happen so I don't see that possibility really reared its head I thank you thank you Mr. Representative speaks you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair my question is is on will this bump to salary schedule sign up and and that because we have superintendents that's really been concerned about the other and I'm thankful you're we're to getting this done it has nothing to do with that but I know we're going to be questions over this you know what are they going to do and and I know there's a school appearing in Baxter County they have frozen that once it's been there for a long period of time and so I'm wondering how this is you know how all of this is kind of flow together. This is not connected in any way to the minimum salary schedule I would be my suggestion that this committee continue to look at both because I think on the minimum salary and this target average is the way that we will catch up and maintain our position relative to other states but this specific legislation but in no way ties them to anything on the minimum salary schedule it it you know those adjustments would be made independently through separate legislation and we're not making any changes on that this section. Follow up that that's why this helps with the cliffs okay I situation so so you just have to to add on to that if you move the the minimum salary schedule. Then I think you would have to move the funding as well which would be something that would be take up an advocacy okay thank you. The representative Lowery you're recognized for a question. Thank you thank you Mr chairman. A German Cozart when you of brought this proposal originally in its infancy two of adequacy committee question was asked about charter schools I see all the references in this to school districts so I if can I make the assumption then the charter schools have also been left out of this or is there some provision. They're not left out there in there okay and hello how is that how's that done yeah thank you five if you don't mind I'll stab that says I have been in that conversation so if you look at the section of code that we are amending and having this section to six twenty twenty three oh five that is the code that establishes the funding for all public schools. Traditional schools and public charter schools so we did not add a specific line to say charter schools explicitly in this section because the rest of this section it's already implicit that to all schools are covered under this section of code. It's how we fund in it'll be in the the bill sixteen seventy seven I think that representative to be running it it it modifies that same section code and we don't spell out in that code public charters okay I'm that followed Mr I'm sorry you pointed out to the specific section I didn't catch that. Yes it's the general code if you look under section two Arkansas Arkansas Code six twenty twenty three oh five B.. Okay and this entire build. Just amends that particular section of code which is the. establishes foundation funding the categorical funding number the funding mechanisms that we used to fund all public schools okay but the salary equalization funding specifically does not include charters right. Right because neither does the essay this section on ESA funding the sectional professional development if the because they are public school students in the state of Arkansas and because this is stab wishes funding based on the number of ATM in all public schools it's not spelled out anywhere in that it's a very long section of codes six twenty twenty three oh five is is huge and they're public charters to my knowledge are not specifically delineated in anyway it's just it's public schools okay all right. Representive got free. Thank you Mr secretary key I think I heard you say this just wanted to clarify because these are categorical funds they're restricted only to salary increases that's correct thank you. I would let me lose you said salary increases to salaries I will say salary increases because that's going to depend on district to district and you know so so I I just wanna make sure I'm a little more precise in my answer okay. Seeing no more questions from the committee help represent Lowery. I've I've had a question forty two in the in the in I'm trying to. See if I understand this online three I mean skews me Page three line nineteen. or nineteen to twenty one a school district shall continue to receive teacher salary equalization funds in the same amount as the preceding fiscal year in addition to the amount eligible for the current fiscal year. Okay does that compound. Or is it the same amount a year one year two. It It is not compound and it would change only if the amount per student changes that you all have would consider inadequacy so if if in a couple of years you decide yeah we need to raise that to two hundred dollars per ATM then they would get what they were receiving before plus whatever additional per ATM amount would be that would qualify for okay so we're just dealing with a by any amount of time here correct okay all right thank you which is that language is important though because that was one of the things that kept coming up as a concern after the twenty nineteen session is what we don't want to lose money once we budget this we got bill hang on to it I have to depend on it so we want to be very clear that. If you L. if you're eligible in FY twenty two. You're going to get that in FY twenty three FY twenty four. You may also get you may also be eligible for some additional funding depending on where you are home home in relative to the target but it's mainly to give certainty to that dollar amount that will continue hello we will lead holding the bag to keep thank you thank you Mr any other questions from committee. Seeing none we do have. Public comment we have Michelle Lynch signed up to speak for the bill ms Lechlade come forward. Michelle Lynch are you in the holding room up there she comes. What identify yourself for the record please. Shell and executive director of the Arkansas state teachers association and I'll say that also when we Like secretary he said pulling member salary is very important and being able they recognize the to disparity across the state and so if we can move forward and closing that gap it will work if it will do wonders in terms of retention of our teachers and also recruiting teachers and we need that desperately. Take any questions any questions for ms Lynch. Thank you miss Lynch. No one signed up to speak against the bills or anyone in the audience that wants to speak against. For. Say no other representative Cozart you're recognized I just like to thank the committee for a hearing this and I think we've got a good proposal here and would love to see it pass and I'll make a motion to pass. The motion to pass through discussion from the members. C. notification will vote on the motion all those in favor say aye. Pose may. I was having graduation pastor bill. Thank you Cozart you're recognized president house bill sixteen seventy seven. All right sixteen seventy seven ladies gentleman's an active up amended various provisions Arkansas Code its public school funding this is our adequacy funding bill basically and who if anybody wants to come up they're welcome to come up on we'll try to start on if I make a mistake you just jump right in David you want to. All right so. Of for the two thousand and twenty one twenty two year the foundation funding will change to seven thousand one hundred eighty two dollars and That is going up from six hundred to six thousand eight hundred ninety nine of for the twenty two twenty three years will go to seven thousand three hundred forty nine dollars I'm still get the highlights of what the changing number wise for number item on page two item to alternative learning environments shall be four thousand seven hundred and ninety four dollars first year forty eight ninety of the second of year. English language learners will go from three hundred and fifty nine dollars first year and I think that studies mostly flat for both because I don't have a second your honor maybe I do okay data stored at the bottom I'm sorry three hundred sixty six as big skip on that one Four or a. Innisfil. Which used to be national school lunch which is ESA funding that will be one thousand five hundred and ninety four for the twenty two twenty three and sixteen thirteen for twenty I'm sorry for twenty one twenty two to twenty two twenty three so those those two changes. Four Enhanced we'll get to those. I'm sorry my read two different things the cliffs there's three levels I'm sorry I'm just now looking Tennessee those three level there's three levels of that I'm sorry that would be the first level of which would be the higher level of the ninety percent up and students and that and and and ninety percent and we only get it right so you got ninety and seventy and then what's what's the lower one fifty six AM hello seventy I'm sorry. Trying to read this as I go and not get this wrong but they'll probably get it wrong. Please wait list request first one fifteen ninety four sixteen thirteen of the two years the next one is a thousand sixty three thousand seventy six and then the last one is five thirty two and five thirty eight what's the difference in poverty levels you have three levels you have three steps in that so different schools with different of court or poverty level reduced lunch. So and then professional development fund will be forty dollars and eighty cents and I believe that is straight across for both years. And then we go to our Transceiver yet transportation is up next. Academic facilities. The yeah I'm trying to get down the missile will pledge. Okay we'll page four if you're following me and the professional development is the bill is for our PLC funding for the year two thousand one on twenty one twenty two that fourteen million five hundred thousand dollars and for twenty to twenty three will be sixteen thousand five sixteen million five hundred thousand dollars. Of. And I think that is all of those line items that we have transportation is on the stand alone so we've already ran that bill you would see that in here so I'll take any questions as part of the base bill for what we came up or adequacy funding. Representative McKenzie. Thank you Mr chair I know you have there was a bill that addressed the the PLC funding is that separate from what we have going on I had a bill that I have filed for that we realize that it was already in this bill so it's still just set there we're gonna we're gonna kill that bill out just going to remove it so it's in this bill so the increase in the PLC trending is in this bill it always was not and I just I got a look at myself and and filed one for that so we didn't need. Thank you. Any other questions from committee. Seeing none. Anyone in the audience signed up to speak for or like to speak for. Against. The No representative Cozart you're recognized thank you Committee and I think this is a great bill because it will fund your schools for next two years. appreciate a good vote I'll make a motion to pass. The motion on the floor in discussion from the members represent a McKenzie. Thank you Mr chair I'm still learning all this funding so I'm trying to take notes and and ask questions I wish that the bills the funding would have been separate because I did have questions about the increase in the funding for PLC I think we're spending a lot on that but I know course my visits to my schools they would probably see some of the funding especially when I go to I have one overall school right the middle of some high salary schools all around them so that's why I wish I wish that we could have that pulled apart in separate wishes may not happen but that's that's my statement on an. Being a member the committee I'd like to say so about that there is a video I don't know if you've seen the video and the presentation that was just put out on our PLC somebody got it that we send that out we have not sent that out. Okay so we have a draft of a a presentation that is kind of a video and will be sending that out when they get that all done out it shows that the growth in the and the I guess the. The greatness of what's happening in our PLC schools that are happening in and the spread of an out spreading and how it's working and so we'll have that out to you I think you'll I think everybody I love it but it is working and we just need to get it all across the state. No discussion. Senate will vote on the motion all those in favor say aye. Opposed nay Is haven't graduation pastor bill. Go back up to the top Senate bill one forty seven representative Lowery president rips as centering which. Thank you Mister Mister chair. I've been told that this is not controversial which I know you don't believe if I'm down here at the end of the table. It really is not and I've asked for assistance from the department of education to explain it the Bill deals with let me get my. Eyeballs in here so I can. The senator senator English's building presenting deals with the Arkansas opportunity public school choice act clarifies language in here about deadlines for requesting transfers it specifically deals with issues related to giving giving the authority to parents to be able to transfer their child out of a school if it is a at F. report card school or if it is a school in the need of level five intensive support It also clarified and and that can be a school of within the school district if there's they're in a class five intensive support school or have school they can request to transfer to another school within that district that is not enough school if there is no school within that district and stop me kick me whatever if I'm if I'm off wrong if there is no school within that district that is not an F. district then they can apply to transfer to another district it that is not an F. or intensive in need of intensive support and that's my understanding I may have missed a couple of high points and I'm sure the department will help fill in the pieces with your permission I'd like my witness to identify herself and help me out that will be fine. Thank you cortisol as Ford for the department of education yes exactly as represented Lowery said this was just to increase clarity and consistency among our public school choice an opportunity school choice provisions clarifying when parents have to send a copy of their application to the resident and non resident school insuring that districts have a policy describing how parents can submit applications whether it's by mail email or in person but stating that they cannot require it only to be in person setting a statewide application window of January first to may first currently school districts can set their own application windows and so some might start at the beginning of the school year in August where as others wait until the semester in December or January so I'm not in till February or March and so wanting to create consistency for parents and then also Setting a July one consistent notification deadline for both public school choice and opportunity school choice again to make that consistency between the two programs and I'm happy to answer any questions. All right three questions. Can I ask myself a question. If you want to use it. The all right I see no questions. Looking back over okay and I see no one signed up to speak for or against this bill is there anyone in the audience against the bill. For the bill. Chuck close for the bill I will I'll close for the bill by making a motion to pass for Senator English you have a motion to pass the discussion on the bill. Seeing none all in favor say aye opposed no regulations your passenger English's bill thank you the representative fight you're recognized do SP sixty one. I Mark this the way you do a bill of the. Try to take the. You're recognized of sort. Thank you Mr chair. I'm bringing this for our Senator Irvin this is said about the Arkansas career coach program the Arkansas career coach program was launched in twenty at two thousand and nine it assist middle and high school students in preparing for and successfully persisting in post secondary education employment or military service the Arkansas career coach program has continued to demonstrate success in producing positive outcomes for students access to the program needs to grow to assist education communities and the state to meet the desired goals for improving education attainment and workforce development career coaches will use data from each local districts online career planning system along with that the student focus details to assist students with career development as a student success plans this legislation also aligns with Assam and Perkins focused college and career readiness measures these are strategically designed to increase performance of students in the school districts are about career coach this legislation will support the Division of career and technical education and expanding access to the career coaches the Arkansas career coach program currently includes fifty nine career coaches serving over thirty three thousand students. In sixty school districts and thirty seven counties in partnership with seventeen community college and I will take any questions. Representante thank you Mr chair and represented by a scene here one of the options for a partnership with the nonprofit organization can you tell me just what types of nonprofits might be included in being one of those partners but the school district specifically mentioned not in the bill but in discussion about the bill with the Rockefeller Foundation perfect thank you follow up. I also saw that there is a provision for and kind of checking that effectiveness of the program the metrics for for checking make sure it's working is there any you know any kind of action or next step if it's found to be ineffective you know in the past it had been checked every five years this the this legislation changes that to every two years. And as far as follow up. The school district and the institution of higher learning of the eight Education co op would be charged with following up on that in making the needed corrections great thank you thank you Mr. Have any other questions. Well see none. we have no one signed up to speak against or for this bill either is anyone the audience for against. We like clothes for the bill I'm close for the bill and I make a motion to pass all right we have motion do pass a discussion on the motion seeing none all in favor say aye. He opposed no regulations thank you Mr chair thank you Committee representative Vaught you modify skip over you to represent Lundstrum. I if you don't want me to this fun. she's kind of been set in the other room ready so reserve Lundstrum if you can hear many other and all your right there okay sorry I didn't see you back there I was or where you work we'll let you when president of that is S. B. one five nine. Thank you colleagues I'll make this short and sweet this basically allows private schools to establish an appoint an institutional line Forsman Office this will this will of course they will have to meet all the standards of a law enforcement at a public school and this will be at their cost. Are there any questions Robson got free. Thank you Mr chair and represent ledger we recently passed a bill that I'm over here the kids take thankful. We passed a bill out of the committee recently and and off the floor and that way it kind of improved that training requirements for school resource officers just wanna make sure that these office also highlights of great yes thank you. President makes. Thank you so all question is is this a separate from a school resource officer for a private school or actually allow them to create their own police forces out of practice would be the same as a school resource officer they would be having to pay for it and this would be an encompassed just like a private school and just like a university private school this would be there on school resource officer and they would have to have the same training as a public school and they would have to pay for it okay so VOL. So so just to clarify this would be a war or allowing private schools to have their own resource officers verses we're not letting them set up their own police department per se this is for. A school resource officer or could be a resource officer and a full police department. And it's not as full police department but it is a something they have to pay for they have to follow the same rules as any other schools police resource officer okay. Any other questions. Seeing none. I have no one signed up to speak for against your bill either Anyone the audit for against seeing none like closed. We appreciate a good vote was will committee a motion to pass representative Vaught. A discussion on the motion. Seeing none all in favor say aye. Opposed no thank you caller is real ask you for your time reserve Vaught you're recognized SP sixty two. Thank you Mr chair SB sixty two this legislation is revision only extends the original timeline by two years for an educator to demonstrate proficiency or awareness of the signs of reading. And allows for the support plan if needed to this time line as a result of the COVID nineteen. and the commitment that teachers have the support and resources that they need to demonstrate proficiency and that's all this bill does. Any questions. Seeing none. I have nobody signed up for against anyone the audience for against. Like close rebuilt and closed a motion to pass a motion to pass a discussion seeing none all in favor say aye opposed. Graduation you've passed your bill thank you. Pharmacy who's next Richard Johnson do you have to forty nine is that correct. Thank you to you prior to of not you okay thank you have to forty nine to sixty four yeah I'll be happy to present this to bills for serving list to up to forty nine first and get that pulled up and from me just real quick. Senate bill two forty nines relatively straightforward bill it adds a requirement of earthquake safety drills to what we already do with tornado drills specifically only in areas where earthquakes are at risk so would be in any areas where you know you there would be some some sort of risk of earthquake so we're only requiring them in those areas much like required to native drills I'll be happy to answer any questions. Are there any questions. C. one a representative McKenzie. Thank you Mr chair and apologize if this is in the bill does it state what those schools are how we determine who needs to do who is required to do these drills notice that question and it doesn't specifically state that as I'm reading in the bill we have to try to get that information to get it back to you after committee or if if the purpose of the committees that pull it down I can put down a run it later after I have that information. I have someone here in the audience who love to dress at issue and if you know what day welcome to come out and and answer that question for you okay. If you just please state your name and who you're with you're recognized for a question. Thank you good morning AJ Gary the Director of the Arkansas division of emergency management and anti answer your question it doesn't specifically laid out in the statute which schools those specifically are through the school safety commission this is where some of this discussion came from as looking at kind of an all hazard approach so those schools that are are in those areas that are within say the the new madrick are that would be affected by the new madrick of any at would be those that would need to do those or else they know who they are they work with their emergency management in those counties at actually through some of the school safety commission we're strengthening that cooperation and that working within those agencies within the schools within the schools. Richard brown you're recognized. Thank you Mister chair Mister Gerry this isn't on this specific legislation but I understand that there's a considerable amount of research going on right now to study mud slides in Arkansas and the prevalence of mud slides here it's your department looking at that also. As it pertains to schools are are protecting people. Not a specifically but we do have a we do take an all hazards approach so into an emergency management when we're responding to an incident are recovering from that rather it's a a tornado a flood or earthquake or or any man made event we approach it pretty much the same way so I am aware of some of the the stuff that's being done with you know some of the mud slides in that we don't have them as bad as other other states obviously but so so we are aware of them but we're not specifically doing the studies on that thank you. And any other questions. Thank you. Seeing none do have you I do not have anyone signed up to speak for against this bill is re one the audience for against. And see none like clothes for your bill yes closer bill make a motion to pass motion do pass the discussion on the motion. Seeing none all in favor say aye. He opposed no resolutions passed your bill thank you miss you're recognized to present up to sixty four Senate bill two sixty four just simply renames the correctional school system to the Arkansas correctional school district and be happy to answer any questions. Education any questions. Seeing none. Anybody for against. Seeing none. Would like close closer bill make a motion to pass a motion to passing discussion seeing none Joe of all in favor say aye. Imposed a resolution passed both your bill thank you Mr. All right I don't see the sponsor for the next building a room so there is. Richard Bragg I want to start you a little earlier that I said so that's great will get you plenty of time to date to present your bill we do have a lot of people signed up for thirteen sixty one so I'm going to prepare everyone in the back room if you can hear me we are starting own thirteen seventy one how to get a ride thirteen seventy one we do not need anybody in this room until we call you in this room to testify please so with that. We'll take a thirty minute break come back now these kids. Of reserve Bragg you're recognized at whatever point you would like to start. Thank you Mr chair and appreciate the the time here on the I trust everybody is read in detail twenty nine pages and fully aware of all the details of the bill so basically thirteen seventy one helps children it empowers parents directs extra funds to public schools and and it does save actually some taxpayer money. Let me I'm I'm gonna hit some of the highlights of of each section I know there's a lot of detail it's it's really a fairly simple concept but there's a lot of detail in in the bill but not just one of the first touch on on the intent of the bill and you know what you just it's it's my conviction that each child in this state should have an opportunity to receive a appropriate education that fits his his needs and. I'm a big supporter of public education but one size doesn't fit all public education just can't meet every single need of of every single child and parents made a choice and right now we've we talked about choice this morning a lot of people have choices but only the Porsche family sometimes do not have a choice and in the future their child's education so this bill is not about. Public versus private it's about opportunity first let me frame the structure of of of how this is going to operate and and and then we'll we'll look at some of the details of this section you know this bill creates a tax credit for individuals or companies to contribute to want to funds thank you contributed to to both of them if they want to but they're two totally separate funds that we're dealing with here one fine for scholarships for certain category of of public school students to go to a private school that fund is capped at four million dollars and then there's another fun for certain categories schools to apply for grants for those individual schools for public schools and that fund is capped at six million dollars. A five oh one C. three organization will administer the program they're kind of the hub of of the program the department of elementary and secondary education will certify these these five oh one C. threes what we're calling in student support organizations they'll be certified by the department of education and the department of finance and administration also handle the tax credits so let's look first at the at the private school part. Private schools that are interested will apply to the Department of elementary and secondary education for certification. individuals or companies can contribute to these S. esos families meeting certain criteria will apply to these assist those for the scholarship if they're granted than those families can can go and apply to a private school the that will also be certified by the department of education and they'll they'll be a list of those and then the SSI does actually handle all the payments involved of a parent will never actually received any of the money it's all handled through the through the SSI does. Now only public park very similar very similar process is similar to the private an individual or company contributes to the fun to the SS so and then an individual school not a district but an individual school that meets certain criteria will apply to the SS so for a grant and we'll talk about that in detail the grant process will be worked out with the the department of education. And then the grants awarded so that's basically how it works. Kind contributions go into a fund. Those are applied for free their scholarship or grant. Meeting certain criteria the scholarships are granted in the in the grant is granted and the contributor gets a tax credit let me go through some of the definitions as far as who's eligible the eligible student is any student of that has a family income of two hundred percent or less of the federal poverty level. There previously enrolled in a public school for at least one semester they are eligible for the succeed scholarship but they can't get get both of them. a parent would be in the students eligible for parents in the National Guard on active duty or had been killed in the armed forces or in foster care are in the process of permanent guardianship. The eligible student support organization again that's that's the organization's going to manage the program they have to have a federal tax exemption Arkansas be registered as an Arkansas nonprofit they will also be certified for the through the department of elementary and secondary education there certain guidelines they have to comply with there's there's other guidelines and and in the bill to talk about some of the criteria that they have to meet in a public school in order to apply for a grant has to have a there and enrollment of at least fifty five percent or greater in the free and reduced lunch program that's what qualifies the a public school. On the contributions That these are these are the allowed expenses okay so for a private school it covers tuition fees uniforms online learning textbooks tutoring if necessary fees for national cert exams again if if they're in a concurrent enrollment with the college it could cover those fees it will also cover specialized fees if they need some kind of speech or physical therapy it also covers to limit ten percent of women owned on transportation but again no direct funds from any of these expenses go to the parents the parents will submit invoices to the SS so and SO will handle the financial part of it. Only expenses for the public school. These grants again six million dollars. To be technology enhancements which would include wireless cabling hot spot you know we've heard a lot about that with the with the need for broadband it could be building upgrades heating cooling ventilation systems resources for response to intervention remote learning intervention platform technology social and emotional well being programming for public school students and parents of public schools. Parent support centers for parents and public school students who are economically disadvantaged. Professional development training for public school staff specific to diverse public school student populations professional development training for public school staff specific to economically disadvantaged public school student populations sensory rooms and equipment for indoor and outdoor special education services manipulatives that public school students have for hands on a problem solving funding for economically disadvantaged public school student populations including without limitation funding for personal care items close even food if necessary. It would find after hours training resources for parents for public school students including without limitation resources for training and basic technology math and reading literacy our resources material and equipment for workforce development skills you know we had a discussion about the other day and and and the law was passed about the English language situation there may be some smaller schools that can't hire full time You know bilingual teacher but it might be possible to use these funds for an after school program that can help you know some of these kids learn English. So a lot of these are eligible expenses for areas that are outside the budget you know these these are things that these these and Gander they're targeted toward some of the lower income schools leisure things that they normally would not be budgeting for and my understanding these are some of the areas that have been affected by the ESA reductions I think when those those guidelines or narrowed up these are some of the expenses that could be used for that. As far as and an application to to become one of these as esos again they they apply to the Division of L. of elementary and secondary education for initial certification there's a there's a lot of things I have to go through they have to have audits are as forms of you know that that details in the in the in the bill they also submit an annual report the Division will keep a registry of the available as a sales and we're only talking about maybe two or three and as you know that that this point with the scope that we're looking at. Thank you they can spend up to ten percent of the funds for administration thank they have to spend at least seventy five percent on the scholarships that can carry over twenty five percent. donor cannot designate where the money goes it goes into the pot but for a private fund donor can't designate and say I want to go to the student or a donor can't designate say I want to go to that school it goes into the fund and then those the scholarships are distributed or the schools of such a plan for grants there's other operational guidelines here there's the complaint processes current valuations and then as far as payments the SS so um a contract with another organization that actually handle scholarships and I've actually previewed one of the vendors that handles this the the software that they use you know they're they're they're each student is set up with a specific account and there's certain accounts that are there set up but that can only be paid in into that account so they will make quarterly payments to the to the of vendors and so they'll they're gonna disburse these these public school grants also. As far as applications for student scholarships the parent will apply to the SS so if if they they meet the guidelines this is what will approve that application and then they actually enter into an agreement with the parent there's there's that there's certain guidelines and stipulations that they have to agree to the parent will sign off on those as far as how to spend the money and what's required of them in the as a so what were renew that scholarship unless the student graduates or or goes back to a public school they'll they'll continue that that funding there's also requirements for an audit every year the SS will pay for an audit from a third party CPA and and provide that to the Division of elementary and secondary education non public schools of apply to the Division of of elementary and secondary education for it eligibility approval in their certain guidelines you know for that then there's an annual report that will be made from the Division of elementary and secondary education a lot of this the store will specify the amount of money per student spent graduation rates and and other information like that a lot of that information will come from the assess those and also it will evaluate parental satisfaction each parent will fill out of and evaluation of the program Another section just just talk about the rules you know Division of elementary and secondary education will help develop rules to implement this and There there's one other code and and and and section two if if a smaller school is on the borderline of the I think it's three hundred fifty enrollment you know that that would determine needing consolidation this would this would not affect that if the student left it would not affect that that number is forced consolidations concern As far as the tax credits eligible taxpayer could be an individual or a business they could have no connection with the SS so or a public school in involved in this state income tax is a is a credit allowed against a hundred percent of the tax liability and that this pretty much the same as as any other tax credits issued there is a bills has mainly temporary language about you know start dates and and such as that I would like to address the fiscal impact if if you've taken a look at that. The fiscal impact of the state there's ten million dollar a cap on the tax credit there is an escalation in there that if it reaches ninety percent of that that name either fund ridges ninety percent could be an increase of twenty five percent so there's a four million dollar cap on the private fund a six million dollar cap on the public school fun on the Public fun. Blake said this the six six million dollar will reduce general revenue by six million dollars but on the other hand you have six million dollars going to some of these schools that wouldn't otherwise receive any this money that applies for for grants the the again these are things that they would apply for it would be outside their normal budget. On the private fund for using seven thousand dollars for scholarship because that's based on the on the foundation funding and I know we just saw some some different numbers but far purpose we're just gonna you seven thousand dollars for now the tax credit will reduce general revenues by seven thousand dollars on the other hand that seven thousand dollars that's not being spent on the student plus that seven thousand dollars will be paid to the school district the following year when the students not there because of the the funding cycle the average per people expense according to a spreadsheet I saw that was given out by the Department was ten thousand one hundred fifty five dollars so not only is a state not spending the seven thousand dollars they're not spending that XS three thousand one hundred fifty five dollars so based on the number of students you're actually saving one point eight million dollars. On on that student state wide the district itself will lose that seven thousand dollars but as far as the state's concern at worst it's even and at best you're saving that access above the seven thousand now I had a superintendent that call that voodoo economics you know that's not common core manifest just basic addition and subtraction of some some data that I receive so when you say that taxpayer money is going to private schools it would never happen without the initial donations of of private funds that's where this starts is with private funds and if you have a philosophical opposition to public funds you know going to private schools we're already doing that for the succeed scholarship public funds are going to help some disadvantaged students the that we just passed a law last week that sending public funds to private colleges so you know there's there's this is not really anything new concept about sending public funds to private school on the fiscal impact for the Department of I use the term department at a and I know it's department of elementary and secondary education very very I went to the bill and they did say they gave a list of all the the items that that would need to be done I went through the same the same process and came out with its sensually the same same sighing and I'd like to go through what is required from from the Department. And this comes just from reading through the bill. Receive initial application by the SS I does again there might be two might be three in the whole state that's a one time occurrence receive renewal that's once a year certify the SS so that's one time for again two or three of them maintain a public registry of SS I does that's just putting them on a list somewhere on the website receive quarterly reports from the assess those this is the report of all expenses of that the as a service manage maintain a list of eligible public schools on the website that could be just an intermittent addition as a public school I'm I'm in a private school enters a system. Send written notice to SS so if it violates the rules it's probably going to be rare of develop a form for parents to sign allowable uses of funds and responsibilities these are already spelled out in the bill so it's just a matter of putting that in into a form that's a one time occurrence. Referrer fraud to the AG Attorney General again it's hopefully highly unlikely develop a process for appeal that's that's a one time process to be developed receive annual audit from the SS sos that's one time a year that they'll receive those. Receive notification by private schools to participate that's one private school and expresses intent to be a part of it bill they'll notify the Department. Maintain a list of eligible schools again and an imminent occurrence and then this the essay or other organization will produce an annual report they can have somebody else do it a lot of that information will be supplied already by the the SS so so I came up with fifteen items which is about the same thing six one time nine one one time items three once a year items and six in a minute activities now let me be clear I don't deny there's some work involved okay obviously there's there's there's work involved here but what I question is the need to hire six additional staff members at a cost of four hundred thirty three thousand dollars and four hundred four hundred seventy two and I don't know what the salary positions are here but it's one GS thirteen four GSO nines one GSO five operating expenses of fifteen thousand and travel expenses of five so as a financial impact for the Department. The fiscal impact for deaf and I again I went through and listed all items that that they would need to do they would publish one tax credit cap is increased that may or may not happen they will receive applications for carryforward credits they receive applications for credit switch they do this on on going basis anyway develop a cooperative agreement with the department of ed to administer the the program if if that's necessary and also cooperate with the Department to adopt rules if necessary again I don't deny that there's some work involved but what I question is the need to hire a deaf in a revenue manager at ninety thousand a year an audit supervisor seventy five thousand a year three auditors for total two hundred thousand a year and two fiscal support specialists four hundred thousand a year for a total of four hundred sixty five thousand dollars. Of the audit supervisor and three auditors are hired I'm not quite sure wine because the SS those are paying for the third party audit by CPA. We spoke with the also the the Louisiana department of finance and administration Has no extra personnel to handle their their programs it's all handled with the current staff we also spoke with the administrator of the Louisiana tax credit program and we were on the same call with with the department and they handle six thousand students on a voucher program two thousand students on a tax credit program and four hundred fifty students on another program again member exactly what it is but there's so there's four as esos in Louisiana there's two statewide and there's two in New Orleans and this administrator manage the whole program by themselves their basic responsibilities annually approved private schools I think they said they had over three hundred private schools we anticipate maybe fifty or sixty I don't know it's hard to say they will and only annually approve the schools submit documents it said it was more supervisory and monitoring reports then and many of the processes or one time processes as far as handling complaints I think they said there was one complaint but it concerned more about a student than the than the SO in the process and there was no investigation of fraud Sturch total calls for the Department elementary secondary education and the FAA is eight hundred ninety eight thousand dollars four hundred seventy two with thirteen people for two or three as esos and five hundred and seventy one kids Now I don't know what the salary of that person Louisiana was it manage all that but they were doing a lot more with eighty five hundred kids than we would be doing with five hundred seventy one so that's the bill let's the fiscal analysis and be glad to take any questions. All right first Senate representing god for you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair thank you so much representative back I appreciate that conversations we've had enough bill I do have several questions and I think I want to start with that public school please I'm on page eight you know we have. I think thirteen different allowable expenditures print for public schools to apply for grant funding for some of these needs everything from laptops for students to roof repairs to professional development for teachers particularly for diverse learners and low income students and physical needs for their students I guess I first want to ask if you could you mention that those maybe expenses that were not in a public schools budget can you talk to me about whether you think those expenses whether individually or holistically our. Supplemental or necessary for schools particularly low income schools and then I have a follow up it's okay Mister. Let us kind of a judgment call and I'm I'm certainly not an expert on on kids that have has special needs but I think this was intended more supplemental things that would be covered outside of schools regular budget the this would be through an additional grant that would that would not be covered under of their regular budget I'm not saying they couldn't provide some of these in the regular budget but it's intended to to be out outside on top of their budget okay follow up you're recognized so repairing the building you know the physical. Facility I guess what make sure the roof isn't leaking we have AC and heat running those you see a supplemental and not necessary expenses for schools yes okay well but well it could be necessary and and I've never been in on the discussions of facilities management this you know my first term on this committee but I know there's a lot of needs for facility that that aren't being met now so this this really is still it would be considered supplemental and I think that that's really my next question if you don't mind Mister chair is we're kind of we're codifying all of these needs that schools have particularly low income schools schools and perhaps of struggling learners schools that this bill and have students that you know we're intending to help here but we're putting in code that schools are not able to with their current budget meet these needs they're not able to meet the facilities needs they're not able to meet the professional development needs of their teachers are not even able to meet. The learning needs as well as the physical needs of their students and so I guess my question is why then are we re routing these general revenue funds. Two private nonprofits where they can save ten percent off the top for administrative fees. And then kind of with their discretion give that back to school to apply who go through this administrative process to apply for the fans and not just saying aye state government for those of us who are charged with providing an equitable and adequate education. Recognizing that these are needs that schools have and not just funding the schools adequately and also utilizing desi to support schools with meeting their needs particularly of low income students. That's a long question what. What am I have to ask for clarification yeah you mention the word re routing we're we're we're not I don't know we're not re routing general funds it in the sense I mean it. I'm trying to understand you you're saying we we have funding already for facilities but that obviously that's not adequate in. In every facility so this is just an option of things that grants could be applied for. Yeah and just to clarify the question was long and it was kind of rewriting itself but I guess the question is why if we have the significant needs of schools have the significant need public schools where netting in code that they do that they need these things in order to teach their kids more effectively to meet the educational and physical needs of their students. Why. Why are we using public funds. To get to meet those needs through a nonprofit and not through Dassey now with this section is for the specifics public schools right but the receiving this grant funding from the SS so they're receiving the signs from an SSL and not from the Department why would we not just say if schools have these needs and we as. You know leaders in state government who are charged with providing an adequate and equitable education and we have a division of allegiance either education is charged with supporting schools why why would we not why why are we getting that discussion and that the funding permission to private nonprofits and not state government and and as a. Again it's it's additional are agree if if the school has a need let's try to meet that need out I just don't see a conflict here this is just in in addition I mean if we need to look at the you know the funding matrix but more or Hammer that's done and and facilities and then let's do it I'm I'm not arguing against increasing funding for schools at all this is just an additional fund that could be utilized and again it it starts with private funds and this is just a supplement to schools I'm I'm not sure I really totally answer that but Thank you thank you thank you thank you of represent Murdock. Thank you a chair German Cozart arisen break we've we've talked a lot about this off line and I certainly appreciate the effort of you and other co sponsors that I know of that are trying to achieve something as I told you it I hit I've done lots of research to try to understand your thinking. Of doing it this way. Representar free mention that so so from a conceptual standpoint I want deal I got four pages on Pat impact but I want to deal what accountability flowers. And I know I got to get back in the queue to do all of this but accountability first in the U. listed several things. That in the bill is reportable and will be monitored but what you have not talked about in detail. He is the accountability factor of how this method. We'll produce better outcomes you say it's an alternative you use never U. P. to a narrative to say it's not but no research no evidence to say so my question for cap for this part is what evidence do you have. This. Relevant to the communities that will be served. This will work. Not real evidence of. This will work because. I've talked to several. Special needs instructors. Private and public schools. Headmasters across this state. And many of you or private institutions now rely upon the public school. Professionals to give them the services now some places they are inadequate we agree with that there needs to be more accountability to that side of the coin we agree with that. But why would we take these resources. And segregate them to a separate something somebody that I want you to tell me who they are verses holding accountable the public school the school boards superintendents administrators and this get that right. With their issues versus the way you're saying which is unproven where is the evidence of that in what would you do with this way well if if I can differ in weight we'll have some testimony personal testimony about how it is working. it it does work and as far as research as far as how how it works I think you could pick and choose whichever research you'll you want take I've seen research it says private schools don't you know improve education I've seen research or it does but at again. I don't see this is it either or option that's where I'm coming from and that's where I probably differ with with a lot of people I see it is a public school and the private because there are certain situations and we're talking about a very narrow scope of students here we're talking about five hundred seventy one out of almost four four hundred ninety thousand one tenth of one percent and and all we're looking at is that there are some special exceptions where a public school might not meet the need even though they provide Services and dyslexia there's still some students the that have have moved in the succeed scholarship because their their need was was was better may at and and that's that's really where I'm coming from is just trying to to say that there are some exceptions public schools I think doing a great job but there are just some exceptions and as far as accountability you know there's always going to be that discussion between accountability between a private school in a public school but the accountability for a private school as within the parent if they don't think their child's getting an adequate education there you know they're not going to be in business they're not gonna have students and and I understand they want their one never be the same accountability for private school to the department of education I mean if if that's a hang up that's just the nature of of private schools and if you want to talk about accountability with public schools what what do we do with public schools that have the the DNS would put him on program for five years and then then what do we you know consolidate them if they if they don't improve there's been chart. schools that have the charters pulled because I haven't produced results but I'm not aware of a public school that has ever been does all just because of of results it's been funding or or other you know enrollment issues maybe but you know that the the accountability kind of works both both ways that the ultimate accountability with a private school is is with the parent. Just real quick felt. You're recognized okay you so you you just a farm with your own testimony that there is no you say that the amount that there is no accountability with a private school well no let me let I think it's too low. Okay thank you you you just say it and you have just cleared up that there is no accountability what we have in place is an education department that is not opposed situations necessarily is a monitoring they keep up with the track the there's testing there's reports there's a there's a lot that they do to make sure that we get the product that we should get from the process now can it be done better I'm not disagreeing with you there's work to be done. But that the structure were of how you doing it is the issue you're segregating. Versus putting all resources energy in thought processes into the system that we currently have so I just want to the only one I was making is that you attested to the accountability piece and I'll get back in the queue whether they're not accountable to the part of education but they they are certified initially these private schools or certified by the department education they have to meet certain standards based on their own association accreditation standards so they are accredited by the different social ation but the department of education is the one that ultimately certifies and so if they accept that certification and they accept that private school is eligible to be a part of the program and they've they've given consent that that private school is is a get you back here. Sufficient. All right. Coach are you ready. All right. Thanks Deffenbaugh thank you Mr. representative Bragg all right a. I've tried list no recognized for one question. Okay to. I tried list. I tried listed all the questions I don't know one repeating the event that one thing that's the I don't think it's been talked about yet is Can you guarantee that the majority of the disadvantaged. We'll get a voucher I mean you the user Debbie at probably a lot of people apply I get emails texts and its secretary but. When a lot of these disadvantaged still be left behind. It's a first come first serve and we can only serve based on the the foundation amount we can only serve roughly five hundred seventy one students so. we can't control you know who applies. It's first come first served as an application comes and if they meet that application it'll be documented as to when it arrives and is just first come first serve if on the fat. Asia yes no well obviously there's a lot of students in the state that won't be survey all week because of the limited amount of the people believe that they they you know that's what the what I get for the public the other thing is that. You know. What the status of the studies I've seen there's you know we. Reggie ask about proven you know you have a proven results why C. results from Ohio Louisiana Arizona Indiana Washington DC where it doesn't show any discernible differences between public private sector there's only there's some correction were. The. react to don't to conduct for private schools have figured a way to. Bilked the funds out of that you know I I out of this situation where they can wear their their a child can be paid for stir them hand uses so what do you. Hey the address that. There is stipulations and and the bill here about fraud and fraud is expected suspected then that would be investigated and turned over to the Attorney General. The. Thank you back in the queue the good. Let me know if you back back all right reserved backed your next. Thank you Mr chair. I may have to get back in the queue so this but but. The initially I what I did not to support this bill and you and I've had that conversation. one of the things that there's several things I could also decisions that we make here. You know there's things that tell you both directions and you didn't have to come up with the with an answer but one of the things that I wanted to hit on and see if you agree on this is this. I've received many emails many phone calls from individuals who have thanked us for the program that you mentioned earlier which was this is the program and. To the point where I've had a mother crying to me on the phone that if her kid not gotten in that program she truly feels attack you would not have succeeded and she. Basi said we need this problem to expand that and would you agree that that you're right it's not going to help everyone but this exceeds program is working and this to a certain degree is another Avenue. For some of those parents who are somewhat trapped I am blessed in my district with the with a school that has an absolutely great program as Mavericks on the other public schools it's a public school that that that some schools since on the kids there are the parents since then the kids are with the for this is actually a trip because I just a great job so that so that's a great that's a great asset for us but not everyone doesn't have that option and wouldn't you agree that not every parent has the extra money to send their child to a program that where they could best be served and that this program would expand those opportunities to those individuals yeah that's exactly the the point and and is is not just low income but any you know anybody that qualifies for the succeed scholarship now would qualify for this program it's been extremely successful that's why we have over a hundred and thirty or so long waiting list for so there's there's definitely a need out there. Representative brown you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair When I think about this program I think about the the benevolence of the people who will be contributing to try to help some poor disadvantaged child have a successful life because indeed we are here about the children not the institution or the statewide organization and when we bring up. I have a question for my colleagues that brought up statistics you comply with statistics all day long but from the statistics I have seen. That when you take children who have this opportunity to go to a different get a different type of education you're taking and you've got a school with predominantly disadvantaged children and you can bring them up to proficient and you compare that statistics with the state wide or or more blended population you may not in its way you compare the statistics. So we're talking. Representative break we are talking about giving children from the most disadvantaged areas who are not attending good schools who are failing in their accomplishments and giving them an opportunity. Opportunity not a guarantee of success is that correct. Partially this bill is not there there's nothing in the bill it identifies a school is a failing school other states specifically have that in in the bill it has to be a day or after whatever to qualify that's not a qualification here is just strictly whatever it might be a student and a school like that but that's not the on the the real qualification it it's income based military base you know things like that so it's it's not specifically targeting a failing school it's just targeting the child that has a specific need that's not being met. Thank you for Claire's clarifying that. represent got for your backup. Thank you Mr chair and I'd like to circle back represent back to that conversation about the increased workload for desi and I know you mentioned it it probably wouldn't be that much she said some things are just in your requirements but then death is contending that they need six additional staff and I think that I am concerned. And you know if they're saying they need six additional staff I I almost wish that we would give them that because desi now more than ever it's just it's kind of crunch like all public school educators are especially the time that the pandemic trying to figure out how to adjust to meet additional needs that the educationally and otherwise for their students and. I guess my question is if we don't. Given to us the the staff that they think they need to fully implement this program are we not asking more of them that will take away time and resources and personnel. That they need to fulfill their current responsibilities to you again meet the needs of all learners and support the schools that we're talking about here well I just reported what the fiscal analysis said I'd I'd didn't say I didn't want them hired a question how many it might take I don't question that there's work involved it might take an extra position or to not to question whether it's going to cost you know four hundred some thousand dollars but if if it takes additional personnel I'm not saying not not to harm this I'm just questioning the overall fiscal analysis of share follow up. And. And then just kind of thinking about that that about the workload of desi and. I can come back actually yeah and again I just referred to the Louisiana program that the panel you know of a much larger system that's that's one of the things I was I was going on sure I guess my point is that you know there I think that the thing this committee myself especially wants to hold really all public schools and and the Division too high account I think we see again but then the language of this bill and in our own experiences in our districts that schools how opportunities for improvement particularly for low income students we had a robust conversation about that with and you know the discussion of ESA funds and so I guess I'm just wondering why we're not investing in desi and in public schools if we acknowledge that there are significant opportunities to improve and concrete needs to do so yeah and I would just say that's a question for us all to answer I'm. Ricimer you're recognized. Thank you what I'll do is I'm going to defer until some of the others come and speak for against this going to help me processes. Richard Becker recognized again if you need. Just a quick question concerning. Is there any data related to of the school decided it it's it's a school districts that are that I have. More of a need from the from demographics of the school district that would be applied to about the public schools now that would be applying for these grants and I guess the question I had and I'm kinda at initially I would said that these are probably the rules schools more rules schools I would you think it would be but then there are a lot of schools in the cities that that also have large it is there any data out today shows that in these programs it did do they help to smaller rules schools more or less than they do the and whether the the Free and reduced lunch guidelines is across the borderland and urban schools and you can look at the list of of all the schools in the percentages you know that have free and reduced lunch percentages up I think if I'm not mistaken over seventy percent of the schools would actually qualify for this okay well over fifty percent fifty five percent free and reduced lunch sell internally sites by district I'm sorry that that's by district so it's safe to say then that most of the districts not just a rule districts but also some of the districts and cities would also benefit from this yes absolutely thank you. The representative. Thank you Mr chair. You know I've been sending over here just Angry at myself I left a little bit ago to go to the bathroom and honestly I should is going out there kick my own self I've been doing a slow burn really at and as I listen here to our discussion. Earlier I didn't see and that is hundred percent my fault I didn't see the PLC funding in this I thought it was and something separate I had a I had a lot of questions concerns it's a lot of money if you look back forty fifty million we've already spent going forward and we're getting a small number not getting full school districts even with this money or spending it's a school here of the district and school here a middle school in elementary the whole point is being it flew here pretty fast that big spend we increased it we spent a lot and if we if we're going to stay on that same path we're gonna spend a hundred million easily before you get the schools trying to bill C. with the private group this out of state when maybe our universities can do this a lot cheaper but it flew out of here pretty fast again I'm going to need to be kept for that I did I didn't I didn't talk I got caught flat footed typical. Focused on this bill but I'm but I did I'm glad we're having this discussion that's great but I am I'm angry at myself and wonder has anybody else seen look at all the time and the effort the fiscal impact here is much smaller than what we did here earlier and I'm wondering is it because we just maybe don't like the principle behind this or something. But that concerns me that we. We have something else and I look forward to the discussion on that I want to get a lot more information than trying to do something I welcome discussion but how quickly that last bill flooding here. Can we fall. And the more than four so we're we're we're working this thing over really good which is fine but maybe we need to spend this kind of. Kind of depth in discussion on some of these other things so that's just my thought in my question here is is that for all of us. What is the what is the intent that has us digging so deeply on some of these things and yet with another bill that had a very significant impact with the private group that but we just didn't invest the time. I don't think that was for you. Well leave the lotus stocks compared to this bill so it do not have anybody that's back in the queue let's coach you one other question okay you're back in. Thank you Mr all rights and says that the guests as the colleague misquoted stats I don't know but anyway I move that just ask questions representing you said that Is it the end of each year that this could be increased by twenty five percent and how does that break down I didn't catch all that each each fund is is separate but each fund could increase. if they made ninety percent of the other goals of the limit for that year yes it could increase the twenty five percent so that that would be a two point five million or would that be the but that would that be right and working well each one Lehrer they're part yes each which one is is totally separate the increase would be figured separately on the other one okay thank you. Okay I'm completely make a little quick statement here so we have as we know a lot of people signed up so within a minute I will ask for two motions but we're going to hear everybody else on this committee that want to ask questions to represent a break before we bring in witnesses so I know we don't want to address still not have lunch so we're going to try to try to work this out but I'm going to give represent Bragg everything he needs and deserves to run this bill so represent a guide for your gonna be our last one and then we're gonna move to the next level sure thank you Mr chairman I I just wanna clarify representative back because you've said that the the funding is coming from private donations but I I do think it's really important why those of us who really care about that oversight of public funds going to private entities are why we're concerned is that those private donations are reimbursed through a tax credit just wanna clarify that that is where the the public funding is coming from can you clarify that please that's correct the private funds go into a fund they they get a tax credit that comes out of the general fund revenue but then again it's it's all set by the not expense that student and then those organizations that received the donations can take ten percent off for administrative fees as thank you. Okay seeing no other questions from members at this time. committee we have a we have to we have to motions I'd like to see I'd like to see a motion to limit Public. Speak speak or other testimonies and then I would like to see a motion to Adjournment time a fixed adjournment time and then we would set ten minutes for him to close. If if that is up to you all you'll have to make that motion and I'll I'll entertain a motion if you don't like him that will continue long robes and love. How many people do we need we have a bunch two pages. Four in the morning yes is about even for and against on. If we put typically we give you two to three minute consideration if if we do that based upon what signed up to speak for against we're looking at about forty five minutes testimony. Questions without questions. Motion the. It would be fifteen four fifteen. And then that that really that really would be fair to everybody so what I would rather see a certain time limit and and I would like about how to like I'd like to fix twelve thirty is our is our German time that way does give you time to get out here and grab something to eat and get them to get to session but only under tight motion represent me. How would you take a motion that we limit up testimony to two minutes per person not including questions from the committee I will point out for a and a grand total of you know twenty or thirty minutes per side or do you want to do that you I want to personally on whatever side. We also have. Situation where we have a parent and a student signed up so we need to consideration we're going to look down as not just two minutes yeah if there's two people that they will give them a double time so because we do have some that have a parent with this with the child with the message child with a student with so what I'd like to see is fixing a time at twelve thirty and and give you ten missile twelve twenty would be end of of the song to well no we got debate coming to so let's go let's go to Let's take fifteen minutes before and it will stop testimony if they're not if we don't get everybody in here twelve fifteen will stop testing okay so my motion is two minutes per person not barring testimony from questions from the committee and that we wrap up public comments at twelve fifteen. Motion proper motion. A discussion discussion on discussion on that would be for the the Department and other I'm a call the experts if you will to make sure that we have they have the time to present their. Test one whatever that we deal forfeiture debate we could do it during that time just to hear the question there to buy time what we considered by I'm sorry right I don't work I want to make sure that if the department has has a dissertation the department is neutral on this but they can ask your questions that would be it would be. Following their neutral they will answer your questions that's what you're asking for okay. Thank you meet other discussions yeah okay the. Thank you for it but we at the end of it we would have to stop at what we'll try to work that in as best we can so your motion is to limit the testimony two minutes per person stopping at twelve fifteen it would if we don't hit everybody out so that's of proper motion no more debate all in favor say aye. He opposed no all right we'll pass that okay so we'll do that I think that'll in this we will have to have a look the second one two and a twelve thirty unless you guys will make that motion. That would that would kill it at twelve thirty if you do the other one signal of the motion we will continue on with testimony from From the audience. From one signed up all right we work through this list. signed a first speak against Carol Fleming Arkansas education association. And everyone that can hear me I had mentioned to some others I know you Committee bring sheets of as a sinker bring one up you know you know you don't have time to read that whole sheet so that your highlights on your sheets and make your points that are really important to you for and against and that way we can move on and not have so much time you're recognized. Going back to short and sweet right. Yes ma'am thank you Mr chair good morning committee Carol Fleming a speech language pathologist currently serving as president of the Arkansas education association which has proudly represented thousands of educators for over a hundred and fifty years and we have members and everyone of your districts AT a has a clear and consistent position on vouchers public funds should be used for our public K. twelve schools public education is so central to our state that a free public education is enshrined in our state contact the constitution to which you took an oath to uphold when we divert public tax dollars to private schools we lose our ability to ensure that those students are receiving the supports and educational opportunities that they deserve the only students that would have access to this Belcher or those who meet the requirements set forth in the bill meaning that the vast majority of legislators don't represent constituents who would receive these public funds even more concerning has this bill has a provision that automatically increases the size of the program by twenty five percent each year it meets its budget limits this ten million dollars program will conduct will cost the state nearly a hundred million dollars per year within ten years over two hundred and eighty four million dollars annually by year fifteen and over eight hundred and sixty seven million dollars annually by year twenty that's not common core math in contrast Arkansas has increased is in more effective public school resources has averaged less than two percent annually over the past five years if this bill passes it will strain our ability in constitutional responsibility to fund our public schools appropriately there is no guarantee that one penny of these funds would ever go to a public school further more tax plans. Such is the set forth in the bill are no way to fund our public schools. My time well please vote no. Right signed up to speak for the bill Christina Snyder and Ross Izard from a scholarship. On deck to speak against the bill will be Vicki hatter Little Rock school board. State your name please and you're recognized. Yes hi hello chairmen Cozart members of the committee I'm Christina Snyder and I lead a scholarships here in Arkansas I'm an Arkansas native I live here in Little Rock with my husband and children and I'm here to testify in strong support of this bill ace is a nonprofit scholarship granting organization that provides privately funded K. through twelve scholarships. To nearly six thousand students in eight hundred partner schools in eight states this includes nearly five hundred students here in Arkansas already sixty percent are from minority backgrounds in thirty seven schools that we work with our schools cover a broad spectrum of educational models police and communities we believe strongly that every family should have the right to choose the education that is best for their children. Public or private. Aces served Arkansas students since twenty eighteen. Despite generous and hardworking efforts to support That support education we have not been able to fully meet the demand for new K. through twelve opportunities. With traditional fundraising efforts alone. Many more Arkansas families are still waiting for help we estimate that there are two thousand one hundred seats open in our partner private schools alone. To date you have the opportunity to take the next step towards providing help to the students and families who need it most regardless of whether they choose to attend a public or private school. As has significant experience in designing successful scholarship programs in other states as well as experiencing experience administering tax credit programs in Louisiana any kids. Based on that experience we believe that this bill will dramatically increase the ability to serve more students and families statewide by allowing us to fund raise more effectively and sustainably. Create a high quality programs in Arkansas that aligns and improve permitting your time is up I'm sorry did you. represent Murdock you have a question yes thank you for your testimony of the nearly five hundred students and that you serve in Arkansas mail I think you said are they in the public school setting. No Sir they're all in private schools would you serve a public school students. Your your program that you're describing this helping students and you do that in the public school. Absolutely so I mean discussions program is joined the round the idea that could you introduce yourself with all these guys I'm Ross is on the vice president of policy and government affairs for a scholarship so our program centers on serving kids were moving from the public system to private schools but we do have folks were moving back and forth at all times we're always willing to respect that choice and provide them with what they need to make a good choice on that front if we have the opportunity to serve kids who are public schools we need to supplemental assistance of any kind and that made sense with the way they were structured in the staffing that we have I think would be happy to do that right now we don't currently okay so you said a lot in that because I'm concerned and the reason why I'm asking this question is because you come for this bill representing this the solution the product. The care it there's been placed out there you representing that right now so you're saying you can come and help these as a transition away my question and many people question has been what taken away you have the service the student. Is the focus. You will I think I'm asked the question again. Serve them in the public situation thank you the way you acid that you put some structure and some set up in some more stuff to it the lands to the problem simply put. If if the school district the state of Arkansas the state that the local school board decide to hire you to do that service for a student with the issue will you serve that student in a public school. So thank you for the question I think it's important remember there were a scholarship granting organizations so we grants scholarships for kiddos were looking for tuition assistance so we're not an education provider we don't provide services directly to students or families educationally so you just providing the money correct for them okay you've got have money for that so the service so so I understood you to say that the service was a part of what you because you said you're currently serving five wants to be just serving five hundred to go somewhere else with scholarships that's correct lease thank you. Representa Maddox recognized for a question. Thank you Mr so I think you just touched on about to clarify you said that there's approximate already five hundred students now who is skating this assistance to y'all are helping is that correct. Correct four hundred eighty. So. People can give the money you can give the scholarships all these things are happening this is in essence is that is asking for a tax credit. Is really all this is doing is that correct. Well I'm asking to increase the size of the program to serve more children. How how large would you like to see it become. If you're asking to increase it. So I mean in general the answer that the only fair answer I could give is that we like to see it grow into were able to meet all the needs in the state right our best estimate right now it's Christine is that is that there are about twenty one hundred open private school seats in Arkansas we think that that's probably about where the demand numbers that's in terms of kids who would move and we would love to get there because I think one thing if I could have just a moment on this but I haven't heard a lot of session of today's time right so there's a lot that you can do you can increase funding for public schools you can pursue other programs we can debate this at length none of that helps the parent who needs help today right so whatever we spend a year two or three working through the stuff there folks are not able to get what they need now the idea is how can we scale as quickly as possible to help as many kids as possible so they're not losing out large chunks of their K. twelve experience well we're busy doing the finer points of of politics. Resentment you're recognized for a follow up last one off road so you would like to see the program to twenty one hundred students it is what you said and you're with a C. okay your administrative fee for that it is ten percent is that correct under this program correct thank you. Thank you for your testimony. next we'll have Vicki hatter little rock school district school board to speak against the bill. On deck will be look Keesha Johnson. A parent who will speak for the bill. Rick you're recognized. State your name please I'm Vicki hatter and I am a member of the Little Rock School board also double duty as the president as well as a parent within the district I am any Long time advocate as well as a contributor to public education so not only in in this in in right in our state but and I also have and then Arizona I lived in Cincinnati as well as the DC area and so and so my pride if you as well as Louisiana finish school there number three my view of education is very broad is not just Arkansas and a lot of I representatives and I say might because all of you guys are that because you guys are making laws that will affected have real life impacts on our entire state and particularly representative got free as well as the the gentleman who spoke after her I think it was more Murdock and then another gentleman any catch his name but you guys really touched on a lot of points that I was going to make and when I lived in in and to I wanted to give a personal story even though a personal story is not necessarily research but when I lived in Ohio then I had the opportunity right to utilize a voucher program try to go to a private school and what I do know from that is that wow I still had a lot of a expenses that came out of packet and that was not covered and myself and other. Parents particularly to other parents we ended up going another route for education after that and so what I quickly wanted to say is that I would encourage you guys to vote no on on this bill because sorry time's up and let me know that you've got you one point out but we do have a question for you Sir. I didn't hear. Thank you Mr I'm I apologize the amount of this and you said you're on the Little Rock School war yes I am hi so. I'm asking this question is. Do you guys ever receive funds from outside the other than the state for projects for the little rock school district for the Little Rock School maybe a playground project or maybe something like that yes we we do we. Don't you think that this program then. Would be a source for funds for your. School district to pull money out of. This this this program sets aside for public schools money that for projects such as the ones I mentioned so would it help you or give you a larger pool to pull from well in theory what's on paper yes but but to we knew we would not. That is not a guarantee I mean. And and and that's what I would say is that is there in the bill with a very went the bills twenty nine pages however it it it doesn't guarantee that public that that that those private dollars would directly come into the public school system depending on how children are transferring I mean so and and so to answer your question it's it's not a guarantee but yes public schools across the nation we and in Little Rock we do we receive outside funding sources to do different projects so are those outside funding sources always guaranteed. Thank you well typically every time you ask for money from someone you are guaranteed to get it. I'm sorry that's a different question and then what you pose a maybe I'm understanding it different okay and then state what I will say is that when folks decides or entities decided to partner with I'll say the Lorax school district kind of like the forty in jail the central Arkansas academies or even different churches are different businesses then there are coming into like an agreement and they know Hey we're going to do this with this amount of dollars trying to and a new gas in that way yes but as far as As representative Godfrey pointed out that you know we're talking about tax tax credits which are dollars and say you. And any you're speaking about private entities that we don't know who at the private so it's almost like an algebra equation because we don't know who who who that person or that entity would be in which you know that's kind of hard to say thank you just a quick follow. What we second public. Thank you. That the point I'm getting at is that you are correct there there's probably no guarantee that you would get any money out this program but there's no guarantees absolute guarantees anywhere so I think it's disingenuous to say that we shouldn't vote for this program because it doesn't absolutely guarantee your district any money and and that was the point so would you would you agree that as far as anything this program does guarantee that it it it says that people can give money into this program in that public schools that those funds ninety percent of those funds go to public schools and suppress support programs and that those public schools would you agree. The representative what I would say I would not agree to what you're saying because there is there is there isn't a guarantee that that that funds would come into our district and I think that that would be premature two even at that state that however what I will say is that I believe that the same amount of energy that is being put into circumventing or even creating a different pot of resources for a not for private non a non profit I believe that. That the steam level it energy and frequency and and deliberation should be put back in public schools because if we are you you all aye aye aye at the elected body is seen in an agreement that we have public schools and facilities that need support that it needs to be better then why not invest right in the corner stone of education to rest but to truly provide a quality and equity with within education so I didn't and then I understand your your point I do understand it however I necessarily do not agree with that all right thank you we're going to have to move on. All right thank you thank you you guys are able to committee courage members to only ask one question please because we're really we're really not giving everybody a fair shake that's out there to test we need to the look Keesha Johnson here to speak for. On deck to speak against will be Candace Williams. The rule community alliance to speak against. State your name and who you're with and you're recognized speak for the bill kisha Johnson and I am here for the bill and I am the recipient of the ace scholarship I am the mother of five sons I am widowed my last two sons attend the little rock little rock Christian academy if it had not been for ace we would not be properly planted I don't have time to wait on the school district to revamp themselves so that my sons get a fair chance I I don't I want to but they need to be properly planted in a place in which they can go make impact which is happening both of my sons might three school my other three sons had school choice through a different environment but my husband was here to speak to their life until you've been in the house where school choice is not an option. You'll you'll push yourself to the event and I modify my income and my household to supplement the rest of what they need so that they can get what they need so that they can go thrive I do not want them living in survival mode so school choice and this bill is important to my household because it's given us an advantage and resources and which my sons have been able to be creative to thrive and to see life outside of their environment that's what I'm for this B.. Any questions. C. nine thank you thank you. Candace Williams real community alliance speak against. Next to speak for. Keith Brooks. All right to state your name and who you're with please you're welcome you're recognized to speak. Good morning Candace Williams a rule community alliance and also speaking as a parent of a third grader in of the rule district in our state. So is rather troubling how the state continues to find more money for vouchers yes over a hundred camp school campuses have closed due to XXXVIII in too small to adequately educate students in the state one of the claim to fame of nontraditional public school options is small class sizes yet we've closed many school districts for the exact same reason all in the name of fission see just last March at the state board of education meeting I joined the community Sparkman and they were fighting to keep their rule school open and they're still fighting. Beginning of the bill this bill states each child in this state should have an opportunity to receive an appropriate education that fits his or her needs regardless of his or her family income or the area in which he or she leaves that is absolutely true I agree with that but that's what public schools are for they educate our regardless of disability socio economic status etcetera and if there is a problem with the competition this you don't send public dollars to front private entities you figure out a way to make sure our public schools are delivering an equitable education if this bill were to pass is still leaves children especially in rules basis I'm able to utilize it with me personally even if I supported this legislation I would not be able to utilize it there are two private schools in my area but being very Frank they were open a segregation academies these kind of factors must be considered when you have legislation like H. B. thirteen seventy one again is troubling the legislation like this is proposed every session and I want us to truly invest in making our K. through twelve education system equitable this bill does not get us to equity and I would actual on vote no thank you. The questions see none thank you thank you. Keith and Ethan Brooks to speak for. On deck to speak against will be wind Faulkenberry. Okay you'll have four minutes between the two of you thank you Sir I have your recognition because since I be made to conformance in thirty seconds if I think. thank you Mr chairman my name is Keith Brooks state representative district thirty one portions of Selena Pulaski County imagine for me if you will third grader walking into a new classroom he's with Molly terrified very unsure of what this year look like school has not been easy for. What seems to come someone actually for his friends doesn't for him. Imagine that same child face a lifetime of evaluations tests diagnoses therapies and generally a really hard time. Madge's mom whose fault form since day one cried over and prayed over him beg for someone to give him a chance. Given up her career input callous talent on hold because she loves him like no other. Imagine is dad spent endless nights worried about I might provide with an excuse bill comes in wonders if the near fix nics six figure sum it spent trying to just make a difference will ever actually be enough imagine a brother and sister that loves so much and don't even realize they're sacrificing four is good the third grader imagine takes almost an entire semester processes IP it in for two full school years he spends a third of its today in a class with seven others of varying educational developmental challenges learning almost nothing. Third grade becomes fifth grade in seventh grade in tenth grade now he's just another statistic and one more than sixty percent of our students in our great state account read on grade level not to mention other significant developmental academic issues which have spilled over into every area of life now imagine that child's family has no other choice colleagues I don't have to imagine it because my family's lived the one difference my family and my child had a choice most of us around these tables have choices and options but to many thousands of Arkansas families don't they're living this exact scenario with hopelessness H. B. thirteen seventy one isn't the boogeyman the somewhat like you to believe it is it's not the systemic dismantling of public education I'm the son and grandson of public educators and probably so a vibrant educational system benefits all of us however let's remember who's dollars are being spent just like we allocated state funds to pay for the child who need speech therapy and has a choice to seek the best clinician around or SB two eighty nine which over only passes committee less than a week ago which enable students to spend their grant dollars a private institutions of higher education these programs don't benefit from some magic pot of public dollars there is no such thing they benefit from tax dollars which earned by hard working our Kansans every single day with those taxpayers have children who are in desperate need of a choice for a better way they deserve the right to make that choice for very small few HB thirteen seventy one at least creates an opportunity for a choice it doesn't destroy your local school in fact explicitly benefits them the journey of my family is one of some might call it rages and even let my wife to live in a four hundred square foot hotel room mind you with two teenagers for six months but the outcomes now for our thirty seventh grade son that have come as a result of the choices we reported to make or ones that quite literally change the course of his life represent Murdock and Deffenbaugh you ask for results I'm sitting next to a perfect example of one most families thankfully won't face as a rat. Ical road as we did. But many face amount on they just don't know how to climb this bill lease give them hope to know that there's a path to the top I would sincerely appreciate a do pass I'll be glad to take any questions after you can make a quick statement. Thank you Mr chairman I'm kind I'm I'm I'm I'm really new at this so don't just to okay amount. Hi my name is Ethan Brooks and I am fourteen years old I am in the seventh grade but I'm supposed to be in the eighth Hey I got back but on the as I got held back a year I am glad that I am able to speak here today sadly. There are lots of kids and teenagers in this state that are trapped and don't really have any other options when school is very hard to like it was for me before my parents found the right choices I didn't have very much hope and felt well well well I really felt. Hello my yeah I felt utterly defeated your it he you know he just a. But now I know that I can do anything because of the help that I got for instance I could even be the president United States of I want to you know. If I wanted to I have a four. Kids and teens that you give them. The chance today to have a choice like I did I am fully ask you all to please support this bill thank you for your time and god bless and and thank you Mr chairman and everybody here. Thank you a reserve Murdock give quick question. yes Sir statement questioned to my colleague and his son I'm so happy to know that whatever method you utilize has made him to such a great job then you did a wonderful job you did a wonderful job and glad you had the courage to come here and I pray for your future that you continue to grow this bill up to my colleague the question is that same service that was rendered for your son that you found of you you would you have been happy to have that same service at a public institution with that of been okay with you. Hi certainly think that our options for public institutions to do a much better job in and we're living proof that but you can spend time in wanted it not work out I think that often times you'll find that the kids who have some of the most significant challenges such as my son don't fit well within that environment have to seek other environments that are better for them that are more suited for the disabilities and the challenges that they face. So if I may. So with what the currently the state of Arkansas have statute that will allow for that to happen without a such a program without such a program is built in to say that because you're able to find that without this bill. Join now so I apologize for interrupting no problem so the point is this bill certainly not you helping your child we all the pop up to all that you've done a wonderful job see but this bill is what we're talking about and you found that without this I found that yes Sir I did find out what about it because my wife and I had the resources on our own to do it and my wife and I were fortunate enough to have the income and have opportunities around where we could find those options ourselves to do that we'd we'd receive no state help in any way eighty came up are out of our own pocket yeah I think that the purpose of this bill is opening up those opportunities for families who may not have the chance to spend it out of their own pockets I think when the state comes to the end of the table will be questions about what's currently available for students that we currently fund now for these type situations so would I think that will be addressed thank you person or. Any other questions. Seeing that thank you thank you committee I appreciate your time thank you both. Next is when Faulkenberry teacher role Arkansas. To speak against to speak for the bill next will be destiny Semans apparent. Well before I get started I want to hand out okay we'll do handle issued okay well you may speak of please state your name and who you're with my name is Quinn Faulkenberry and I'm a daughter and and sister of public educators a wife of the highest goal coach mother of for public school students an a product ever a public school. This little quiz I was gonna hand out is just a quiz and that has some questions for for actually to ask I think about a bill I've been listening back there and I had to hold big story prepared that I came to tell you about two different students and but what it really comes down to I think As I was listening I think the the people speak for this bill want to help children and parents and and and so do all right so the so the people who are speaking against it but it seems to me like there's there's a gap in understanding the needs of rural kids and. So I'm here to speak for and the majority of students in Arkansas the majority of students that you guys are elected to to serve who are rural and and don't have access to these schools the special schools even if they were able to get a scholarship there's no transportation when you live you know forty five miles out in the mountains on a dirt road to get to a school and in a more urban area and we can't find two systems we can't even adequately fund one is as evidenced by the other bills that have been discussed this morning I think what we need to do instead of using public funds. And to fund private institutions M. that don't have the same kind of accountability we need to fix what's wrong and with our public schools maybe reduce some of the regulations on them I mean given the same freedom is charters I'm sorry your time is up okay. Any questions. No questions thank you I'm sorry. To speak for the bill we have destiny Simmons. On deck to speak against the bill will be chaired Cleveland superintendent of the spring Dale school district. Please state your name and who you're with please this is a sentence and I'm a parent I'm for the bill okay you're you're recognized I have up we have five children three two graduated and we have three in a private school. My two oldest I had I at the time had for in. A public school and my son had continuous problems and I would speak to pretend about it and never got fixed I spoke of in the last time I spoke with him was over situation I told my said I will take my kids to another school he said that would be great. We pulled our to another school it was summertime. What we can do where we gonna put in so we checked public schools outside of where we lived out of our area of course you do this you know that means you have to live in the district with for apartments we're gonna rant. I told my said we can for this our family would be broken up like how we gonna do this. The public there's a private school in our town is a let's check it out so they went there. I still remember all teachers were in the very front of the building the doors locked we knocked on that they were hanging a sign and it said. Welcome it said when you enter the school consider yourself one of the special members of an extraordinary family. That was everything to us. My kids still go there they it's like a family I have a six year old boy who has Tourette's and the small school settings the small classroom setting is amazing for him. Amazing like. The public school would be a good fit for him. My eighteen year old who's a junior now she has a real policy. She was picked on public schools continues problems. And. She just it public school is it a good fit for a for our family I don't know where would be without a product. A private school. Sorry. Sorry your time is up and we have a question for. Seeing none thank you for your testimony. Tiered Cleveland is up to speak against the bill. On deck to speak before the bill is Dallas green. State your name and who you're with you're recognized lately on Jared Cleveland serpent Springhill school district I'll try not to take two minutes I just have some concerns it's one point out of. House bill thirteen seventy one does divert public money tax revenue to fund private education. It also. Not required provides bed services that's a that's a big issue currently in Springdale we serve twenty seven private school students outside of our district in a few of the private schools around we're happy to do that I have no issues but we're already doing that the scholarship also doesn't cover the cost of tuition at most private schools to my understanding. In Springdale we have over seventy two percent of our kids in free or reduced lunch so a major impact for us is to make sure students are fed fed well at least three males that's what we do breakfast lunch and then a mailing afternoon that along with other services I know transportation is required the traditional schools do that and I see nothing in the bill that provides opportunity transportation even though it's saying that maybe some of the costs go toward transportation cost. Also public schools if we have a student who was expelled we still continue the education for expelled students outstanding the build for private schools have to continue that process. Last couple of points no accountability for student performance as public schools do and finally does not ensure access following special ed English language support mail service dyslexia intervention and the science reading structure and so those are just my points and the we have taken questions to nana. All right for any questions. Right of return Murdock short loose yes Sir as it relates you heard the testimony I think about the deficiencies in our public schools that that you're here those are the for this bill talking about two of. What do you feel that we can do differently or do you feel that this bill will help or hurt the process of us getting better in a public school system does this help us or hurt us by this methodology well it any time I think a couple things Mr Murdoch number one I think any time that you dilute the Public School Fund that's a negative deal right you all have worked very hard to to support financially public schools and continue to to to press forward I think that's a negative and I know some say well it's taking private funds putting a different pool any time you take those dollar for dollar private funds and take it away from the taxing opportunity then you delete that public school fund general revenues the other thing that I think that you ask about how how could you support public schools more I think you have to provide us an opportunity to use some flexibility in regard to the standards the Arkansas state standards haven't been addressed since what nineteen eighty three Mr. I believe that's under well I'm as far as their opportunity waivers and everything else so right now to go back and address those required standards might be a good opportunity to help public schools move forward. Fite your question. Yes thank you we've heard testimony that this would actually only affect five hundred is on the students in the state of Arkansas and the students would you anticipating Leding Springdale schools at this bill would not be really hard to say That's just question now I can answer I don't believe in a body at the table to answer either I think those numbers since there are opportunities at private schools right now in the area of northwest Arkansas tensely several. I don't know. Rips a representative make sure question. I have a question and then also if you would serve a clarification so you're superintendent Springdale school districts yes is that correct so you drove down three hours today to testify against the the the bill here and most of the so my first clarification is are you acting in your official capacity as superintendent or are you acting as a private citizen but then my follow up question is mostly things you pointed out you know you're concerned about transportation you're concerned about expelled your concern I mean these things like these are. They're important but they're. Also trivial but they seem like very small things I mean the things like you know accountability you've got that with home school students and stuff so I'm wondering if you could clarify. Your. What's really driving your concern with this bill I mean I'd like that and it just seems. Unlikely that you drove three hours to tell us that you don't like this bill because there's maybe not transportation cost or something in there will representative makes respectfully I was trying to make sure that I was brief. I am actually in my capacity as a citizen of of this great state and it as the superintendent of Springdale I think it's important that I represent our district our students our faculty and and doing very well so I'm here in that capacity the aspect that that you asked in regard to why would I drive three hours public education is vital to the the future of Arkansas and I think all students need the opportunity to have a great education. That's why I'm here and anything anytime that the public school system has cracks or is we can in some way I think that's detrimental to all students I really don't want to see public schools look like public housing in the future and I fear that as continual chips in the foundation of public school continue to happen that were headed there and I worry about that okay I thank you for the question please. Thank you thank you Mr isn't there a cap in the bill on the number of students second come from the school district. I'm not aware of a cap is especially since it once you reach a or percentage within twenty five percent you get twenty five percent more. Is that there's no cap and there. Senate months there's a regular cap on any of them to be able to pull out of the three percent to correct. Yes. Talk about a regular school choice type deal all right for any school district because I'm sorry it's not in the bill so it would be a I'm sorry I did not misunderstand so you couldn't lose more than three percent correct. Represents a large number well that that he said no one knows how much it could go up I was she asked me how many of our phone would leave I don't know hi okay but we all would be more than three percent. Okay maybe one through there Sir I would submit to you. Any other questions seeing that thank you Sir thank you. Telescreens here to speak for the bill. Up to speak against the bill. Aaron Walters superintendent Brian public schools. State your name and who you're with my name is Dallas green on the parent I am I am I am familiar with representative Brooks anything because my daughter was a. Classmate of Eaton's they tended the same school and we need more we need more and I'm dyslexic my daughter's dyslexic my son's dyslexic my grand child dyslexic I have a five year old grandchild grandson now that is in kindergarten in public school I'm for whatever school works best and public school works best for him because his mother is a single parent and she can't drive so we're talking about a whole nother level of income the child needs occupational therapy for its hand writing they did it for three weeks that one exit him prime it he's fine he's fine he's fine he's fine he's fine yeah they've done speech it's work they do dyslexia intervention it's work but he needs more he needs to address his primitive reflexes it's called M. E. and or OB there's a person that does it in Little Rock she's completely booked there's a person that does it in Northwest Arkansas she's completely booked there's a person that does it in hot springs I'm not drive my daughter there because I can't afford to go to Florida and spent sixty thousand dollars I've already spent seventy five thousand dollars on my living your old. She grades she cannot she comprehends hi she has a beautiful handwriting motor plant but when it's time to put pen to paper that's when the nightmare starts a public school system and most of your private school systems are not going to address those things because they're not equipped so it's up to the parent to go out and find those places. We can't afford it most people can't afford it I've heard today from the Democrats Harrell they don't want private funds to go to nonprofit private nonprofit school story they don't school funds to go to private nonprofit we'll look at your stating is that life funds and if you're Republican I'm sorry the claim is a great platform you're not following it if you're not for school choice. Thank you. If superintendent Karen Walters Bryant public schools to speak against but next to speak for the bill will be care and and and many. State your name and who you're with please thank you Mister Committee care monitors a superintendent right schools I'll be brief my remarks that had modified based on the time I want to talk about the accountability you know currently with private schools they do not have to follow the same testing they don't have reporting or anything like that as they should not if if you're not taking public funds and I don't think that you know that's any of the state's business but what this bill does is it changes that in the best analogy that I can give is from and I guess some words of wisdom I was told by the smartest man I know my father and I heard several times whenever I was a teenager you put your feet under my table you're going to follow my rules that's just the way it is. And I feel like that public schools have our feet under the table we have lots of rules we have lots accountability and that's fine I'm fine with accountability I believe my staff will tell you that we we talk about things are not even required in in law. But. If this bill passes what it's going to do is it's going to allow our brothers and sisters from the private school to be putting their feet under the table and they they get to do whatever they want there's no rules not only that. Looks to me like you're saying to us we're going to have to make their car payment in their insurance because something I'm not sure that this committee knows is that and I think representive Murdock hit on it is that public schools are providing services for special ed students in private schools so if they're going to receive these funds then they don't need to provide those services themselves. Or it needs to be that you and they also need to accept all kids something that hasn't been talked about is there's private schools I know for a fact that tell families I'm sorry we can't meet their needs say it's more than what we can do and they're kicked out of the private schools and the counter Bryant so I have to thank you school kids thank you thank you. Are we have four minutes left we have a care and and and many that is going to be our last two that we will bring up and then we will go to I think they want to hear something from the Department of questions and we'll go to bike or go to my closing I'm sorry. If you state your name and who you're with please. Chariman. This is in many of I am here and getting ahead. So it was at third grade when we did when we found out that I was dyslexic. And I would get in trouble for raising my hand and asking questions just because I didn't even know. And it wasn't later until the students they're also found out that I was having trouble. And I was picked on. To the point where we had to we were pretty much forced to leave that school and another school. The first the first year that was there was going very very good we had a teacher that I understood how to teach dyslexia and knew that what to do. And the night and the next year she she went to cabinet and And moved to a different school. And we had another teacher he was there. And he I told him the first day that I was dyslexic so you would understand how to teach. but then Two. Can school. And he ET understand and we were forced to leave that school as well and we found a school Kelana school for dyslexia and when I went there it was just my future opened up in front of me I I believe that I could do anything. Okay so like I said we we discovered in third grade actually we just renewed before the we couldn't get anybody to help us the public schools didn't to recognize what it recognized wouldn't evaluate It was just amazing that the things that we had to go through to get help for him and. We ended up being told a conference in an IP meeting actually thankfully thankfully that His next choice was to spend his days in a self contained classroom because they couldn't do fourth grade curriculum I'm looking for now he's at the hand of school he can read anything his options are huge we're looking at here is just amazing I also have a son who graduated from public schools who was brilliant hues AP classes he was in concurrent classes but guess what he couldn't read well any couldn't perform on the A. C. T. because it's time to and he didn't have enough time to read and re read and re read. if we fought to get him accommodations fought we approached AT ACT ourselves he got the accommodations made a twenty six on the on the test when he couldn't pass more than eighteen before the accommodations the after time gave him the ability to to do it the problem is he spent his whole life trying to hide the fact. That he was really stupid because that's how I felt. And so he wouldn't ask for help in a college environment also he wants to scholarships the first semester. This guy here he has that's totally different. Education. outlook my son I talked him yesterday my twenty one year old and says you know I have an opportunity to get an apprenticeship for trade school our trade back in apprentice and also earn money. I know you to ask questions about that because the time is up but it we appreciate your store you've got a great job thank you any questions please. See that thank you appreciate what you said. The members were actually based on the motion was may were added time for testimony however I want to make sure that you're aware of the remaining ones that did signed up to speak for or against the bill shelling Arkansas state teachers association signed up to speak for the bill to speak against the bill is doctor Mike Hernandez executive director of the A. E. A. alley Nolan from Little Rock School District Dale query from real education Wes Henderson superintendent Yellville summit and Dan Jordan from the Arkansas school board association those all signed up to speak against the bill. All right those we wanna make sure we let those names you have some more or we may have some more. Very bottom. Dr Michael poor but he could not be here today he is a filling meal so he he is not here so anyway so this time I'm going to I think we in agreement there's a few that want to ask the Department some questions is that correct. Is that the only agency you want to see come up. I'm asking you represent Murdock okay. All right could I get someone to department come up and answer a couple quick questions. I don't call your desi I just call you the Department. Jockeyed part of education. Russia Murdock you're recognized okay a couple things one initially represent Bragg out I used or challenged the the fiscal impact as relates to AT could you address what he testified to on that as to the the the need S. is describing what we have that to some degree he pushed back against sure I mean I that is typical of agencies and we're no different than to look at the bill and determine what it appears to be the responsibility of the department and provide a what we believe is an accurate reflection of of the staffing that would require to implement that I certainly wouldn't dispute representative practice the assertion or or a different conclusion we did add his invitation to get on as a meeting with Someone who invented in the Louisiana department of education we appreciated their input but as I told them then you know that that's that's our assessment of if this bill passes we will make it work more the other and that's what we do is agencies we we enacted legislation that you all pass do you feel like this legislation will close the in equity and achievement gaps that we now face of Arkansas I haven't looked at this bill and that to. In that context it is that my understanding that's. I don't read anything in the bill other than its opens up a pathway for. State of parents and students to access a different approach okay I have one last question no one else at one if that's okay with the. Okay okay I got others. The last one I think of but you did have one for all other children okay the body also want to talk about corruption Murdock. You have one the same one okay Rosa Maria do it as it relates to the deficit in the special ed funding we used to have to serve the districts of even after this is. Sir private schools even after if this is passed we will still serve private schools even though there's a deficit in our funding for special ed funding what what deficit I'm not sure what that's in special it was beautiful well will this create a deficit in any kind of way and we we still have the service says private schools after this is that that's federal law so the the the service as provided to students under equitable services provision onyx the correct terminology that's federal law representive so we will continue that regardless of the status of this legislation thank you. Chrissolari quick question. Yes press secretary of. Testimony kicked the came up several years ago on succeed scholarship I think would apply here and I just want you to clarify the students that would be leaving say under this program leaving public schools going to a private school with the school district actually if the student is severely handicapped because of the federal law that says the public school has to spend no matter what it takes all that student. With this in the school district end up saving money because they would be relieved from that liability. There are so there's so much disparity between mildly disabled severely disabled and the expense that it takes a I think the department would be very hesitant to to make a generalization on that so probably probably can help you with that answer well I tried okay. All right seeing no other questions thank you Sir. Represent Bragg would you like to close for your bill. And I do apologize that we could not get everybody here to testify I know we missed some that would love to have been for and against so anyway I think the results will be the same we did get the as many force against here so reserve Bragg you're recognized to close for your bill and I know you've got a lot that you are all those questions for. Thank you Mr chairman committee and thank you for your patience I know it's it's been long we've covered a lot of information and suppress some good honest convictions about this bill and I certainly respect everyone who has expressed an opposing view point and I don't doubt the sincerity of of of any of these you know viewpoints and we we may just agree to disagree and we'll still be friends but I'm not gonna go through the whole mechanics of the bill again obviously it's just want to express on my personal concerns just as many of you have you know I've I've been accused of being against public schools as the just the farthest from the truth it could possibly be I care deeply about our education system or whether it's public private charter home schools my wife is retired public school teacher she taught second grade for well over thirty years my best friends a public school administrators we go to church together. We disagree on this issue but I have a great relationship with my schools superintendent in my district because they know over the years I've I've supported them. If it anyway I thought a bill like this is damaging to the public school system I wouldn't be running. keep in mind the very narrow scope of what we're talking about but it's critical to understand this this what we're doing here is just the fact that one type of educational structure just doesn't meet the needs of every single student when the choices and I think you've you've heard today parents want choices they want to be able to provide the best possible education for their children the status quo just does not always allow those choices. They're always be children that need an option an option that will allow them to fit their individual needs and succeed I know from talking to teachers and sometimes just changing a classroom just changing a teacher can make a big difference and and educational experience they always be those children who are square pegs being forced into a round hole and all we're trying to do here is find that scoring hold form. this really isn't about school choice we have school choice now what we don't have as an opportunity for some people to exercise that choice wealthier parents have options as we've seen today they can afford to send their children to a private school that offers the best educational opportunity lower income parents just do not have an option they're restricted by arbitrary boundaries and income limits the Arkansas child academic opportunity scholarship and grant act a law for some children that opportunity to meet their individual needs to succeed and also provide certain public schools with much needed additional funds for on budgeted programs every student deserves an opportunity to succeed this could involve need for individual education experience at a public school just might not be able to provide. This this bill is one option for granting that opportunity it's about opportunity and the choice for you today is simple it's difficult I understand that you know when I go to school and barely hear the statement that what we do here is all about the child in a and I believe that we've got great administrators great teachers. So the conversations about the kids until you bring up a transfer to a private school then the conversation changes. This is what I hear this is from several years of experience of working with this the conversation changes they don't talk about the student to talk about the money. They don't like this bill because they'll lose seven thousand dollars per student even though the state saves money overall. And let me explain something we're not talking about taking funds from the public school fund. There's a lot of things that come out of our general fund in the budget just because something comes out of the general fund doesn't affect our funding matrix okay that's and I need to be very clear about that you the public schools are going to get funded based on on the matrix we have a lot of things that come out of general funds that don't affect that. they don't talk about the student is referred to talk about how the private schools don't have to follow the same guidelines they have to follow they just don't want to lose a student to a private school there's there's been talk about the accountability of private schools students on this scholarship will take the same test urine tests that public school students will take that's up to the department of education Parents are the ones that are ultimately hold the schools accountable. They don't talk about the student they talk about the devastating effect this will have on public education if one tenth of one percent of the students which is what we're talking about leave their schools there's a perception there's going to be devastating do you know as we talked about before there's been five hundred kids already in the last couple years in the ace program and I don't I don't hear of any public schools of of down under because of that. I asked the superintendents in light of all these objections what then do you do with the child that needs a different experience I don't get an answer. That doesn't involve comments about private schools or funding I don't really get an answer about what do you do with that specific child that needs a different experience. They lose students to other public schools you've probably seen now it's it's time to advertise for school choice I see billboards on the highway I see ads in the paper social media come to our school. You know we have a great school they're recruiting kids from other schools they're willing to take up to three percent from another public school based on school choice but they don't want to give up one tenth of one percent. To go to a private school. Where the child has a particular need. I understand the pressure from superintendents looking fellow legislators. You're hearing very vociferous objections to this bill you think your political future could be at stake. You're not hearing from our the faceless voiceless children who are struggling and need a different environment. You won't hear from them. They have no voice you never see their face even though you've you've heard a few here today. So what we see then is successful education and some of these situations you won't hear from them but you'll hear from your superintendents about why these children should not have that opportunity to succeed. Why would you want to deny that. So is maintaining enrollment more important in the future the child. Is keeping seven thousand dollars more important in the future the child. Is leading animosity towards losing a student to a private school more important than the best interest of the child. Let me share some quotes and comments I've heard over the last few weeks and these are all quotes concerning education bills that we've heard are some concerning special elections that confi affect schools. And these are all quotes from legislators that oppose this bill. Quote if a parent wants a better school experience what is wrong with that. Quote why is it a bad thing to give a kid a better experience in school. Quote if there's a better option for that kid then what is wrong with that kid pursuing now. Quote one reason the passes bill simply put it should be all about the student. Quote. The kid has on the kid only has a chance to be a kid wants whose family made the decision to go through a valid legal process because they want to school that better met the needs of that child. Quote if it were your child or your grandchild what would you want for their life. Quote flexibility is needed to address specific concerns. Quote the chief might gap continues between children of color in poverty gaps are closing. Quote if the concern is about closing gaps what difference does it make as to how. Let me repeat that if the concern is about closing gaps what difference does it make as to how. Provide the right learning X. environment in the child be successful. Quote. I was voted in the legislature by seventy percent of my district not seven percent that have special interests so I have to look out for everybody's interest. The point there was my let a handful of people speak for the majority of your constituents who based on polling favor this. Quote I'm not worried about those mayors librarians are superintendents I'm worried about ninety five percent of my constituents. This is the one that really really got to me quote I know it's the right thing to do but I'm getting pressure from my superintendent. If you know the right thing to do. Why don't you just do it. Most of the opposition. From legislators I've talked to on this bill is not about the merit of the bill some of you actually have issues with the bill but it's because our superintendent just doesn't like it. I understand the pressure you're getting. They're the ones driving opposition the arguments about losing money. I heard opposition because some rural students wouldn't benefit why reject the bill just because some wouldn't benefit wine deny that benefit others I've heard about it the expansion of the program. If I intended for this bill to be quote the camel know camel's nose under the tent meaning it's just it just a method to expand the program I would not be concerned with five hundred and seventy one students I'd have an initiated act on the ballot and let the people of Arkansas the son this would be a very inefficient way to expand this this choice. Keep in mind the scope of the bill five hundred and seventy one students out of about four hundred and eighty thousand one tenth of one percent. Some of the opposition says we can't use that money to improve school six million dollars is going to lower income schools I agree we need to do that let's get our public schools to the point where a child won't have to leave for a better opportunity but that will take some time to achieve in the meantime let's give kids an opportunity now that don't have the luxury of that higher income families. It's not an either or proposition we should do both improve our schools long term but short term provide an option like the Arkansas child academic opportunity scholarship and grant offer if education is truly about the student. Then wind in my student a chance for success. Even if it means giving up that student. Members. You're only going to be here few years but the decisions you might can laughed last a lifetime. Is the short term appeasement a superintendent more important than a lifetime success of a child. So the choice before you today is do we maintain the status quo do we protect the systems are to we give one tenth of one percent of the public school students who need an option. The chance to succeed and at the same time provide a much needed extra services to lower income public schools. I'm close Mr chairman and I move a do pass. Are we have a motion to passes during debate on the motion. Represent. Okay I have to wrestle God for eligible for. Thank you Mr chair I'll be brief representative Brad really I appreciate you so much and have tons of respect for you and I would certainly never say that you are opposed to school to public schools in to be honest I think that characterization could be made about myself my entire career I've worked in public education this is the first year I'm not a public school employee but at every job I've had in public schools I've gotten in trouble for being too aggressive too passionate too disruptive to the status quo I do that because I think you and I are aligned in our heart for opportunity for kids and for educational equity that is my driving core value as a professional that's an educator in the now as a legislator and so I do think where a line there I think we're we're we fundamentally disagree we talked a lot about this and I appreciate the opportunity to to elevate this concern is that my interest and continue to invest in public education is not to say the institution but that I believe that is the best Avenue for educational equity and empowerment for students for their families and particularly low income students students of color and immigrants students that's been my entire career I think the hard work is worth it to continue to invest in and improve public schools and that's why in the past but I appreciate your professionalism in this at this bill thank you president of all you're recognized thank you Mr chair. I know a lot of people was surprised to see my name on this bill because I am such a strong supporter of a public schools I'm a product of a public school my children all went to public school my husband and my father in law each spent ten years serving on the school district board school board and I've served as a long term sub I have a daughter in public school teacher and I have one that will graduate and pray to god she gets a job this fall teaching so I must I am a strong supporter of public schools and always have been always will be but I felt like this was an option a good compromise. From what we had seen from the vouchers before. A compromise which I thought was gonna help our public schools at the same time as helping with the vouchers and that's the only reason that I decided to help with this bill and I appreciate Mister Bragg and Mr Evans for help and Facilitate a lot of. My problems with the previous bills I still have heartache with this because I am such a strong public school person. I didn't look at this bill whenever I started helping with it from the private point of view I had a daughter who taught at Fordyce Arkansas. And whenever I went to help her set up her room she had to pick the best of the worst chairs that was there. That's all those kids had the best of the worst. And whenever I started helping with this bill that's who I thought about those kids who had nothing and no other option they don't have a private school but I thought maybe this would be a way to help those schools. Even though I'm very torn. Today I'll be making a vote for those Fordyce kids and I'll be voting yes. Any other discussion. Seeing none. We're down to the vote. All those of favour say aye. All those opposed no no seven. Shall we have a roll call. Representative makes our I. Representative love no. Representative Murdock No representative Deffenbaugh. No representative Lowery yes yes representative Womack. Yes representative Bragg yes represented by eight yes yes representative back. Yes representative speaks. No representative brown. Yes representative bought. Yes representative Maddox. No. Representative hollow well. No representative Johnson. No representative McKenzie yes yes representative Godfrey. No representative Smith no no representative eleven yes yes. Your bill has passed. Eleven. To nine eleven to nine. I changed all. Never know what you're with with the go go. We'll get a chance to go the full. Hi Jane I will get a chance. All right thank you for your insurance and Your passion each and everyone of you and this but without objection we're Jr.