State Agencies & Govt'l Affairs-Senate

They can come we can hear all those expeditiously I do not see Senator Clark in the room and so what I'll. Okay so what I'm going to do members is I'm going to ask senator garner to take over the chair for a moment we're gonna go ahead. And Let's see comes right in there Clark you're right on time brother I was getting ready to move on Okay. So I withdrawal that and we'll hear Senator Clark stay on the agenda. I was going not couple out. But All. Senator Tucker do you When we hold off let's see how we're doing. And if we see we're going to be able to knock that out let's just keep it on there how about that. Yes. Yeah okay. Okay you could apply on that disk. Thank you. Senator Clark if you would please state your name for the record stay central in Clark district thirteen. We should just call this Clark day of Sir Clark we do that just members of already been advised we're going to handle all these bills up appear in the regular agenda and then recognize you for briefs on each of your constitutional amendments and that you're recognized for five forty nine Sir. Senate bill five forty nine is fairly straightforward. The an act to amend election laws just of a report on provisional rejected ballots of so that we can save life of. You get some kind of rhyme or reason what's happening how it's happening is give us some good information of his wisdom was secretary state. People outside of the they suggested that there might be some additional information that we can add that would be good what they said they didn't see any reason not to go ahead and run it. I'll be happy taking questions does that indicate that you may amend it or I don't know if they're going to want to amend it Senator Rapert or if it's just things that that we can work out that that like forms except for a how it's going to be done they suggested go ahead run it so okay will it be your call answer you know if that changes all right of re refer written. It's no it's no problem members you have any questions for senator Clark on this bill. I don't see any questions of do we have anyone signed up on this bill. Is there anyone like to speak for against this bill. Senator you close for the bill I'm closed appreciate a good vote all right I have a motion to faster Senator Ballinger second for Senator English all those in favor say aye opposed no still passes Sir thank you went out to five fifty five fifty. concerning fee charge for phone call by an inmate. And I do thank you got a position on this one what you senator of they haven't contacted me that I have seen but yes I understand that we do I expected to have whatever sheriff around me call me so set up for you know how that works sometimes all right we we do have some and that being said center we hadn't and present five fifty and then we have some folks to speak on this yeah and I'm going to do this at the pleasure of the Committee I do want to run the bill because your concentrates I don't want to keep you but I know they've also come that's right since they're here let's just try to proceed of this Simply says and I'm a former quorum court member and the the bill was originally brought to me it was that you can charge anything for the calls but. The that the maximum will be the I can't members intrastate or in interest state or interstate rate of and I know that counties of trying to run jails are strapped for money I said I have been there and work on those budgets of and I am sympathetic. but we can't we'll just give you an example one of our colleagues had got a call about a family member that had been arrested unexpectedly and the three minute call was thirty five dollars. And that yeah three minute call was thirty five dollars the. You know we just came from a snowstorm of and lows with everybody was under generators but me and everybody was out heaters but me and I could if I but I took a thousand dollar generator solar for two thousand dollars the same sure center here to testify. How would be sent to arrest me and then when I got in because because I'd be outrageous because they said you can't do that disclosure the only one that has on you can't do that and but then my phone call that would cost less than a dollar being. A generous of could cost thirty five dollars a ticket to call somebody so I'll be happy to take any questions. Censures you have any questions for senator Clark Senator English you're recognized look at you so I'm I'm what the phone call cost thirty five dollars I mean I understand when we had when we used to have to pay for but by the minutes are when you make a loan just called now got cellphones I mean call of the world why are we paying thirty five dollars for a phone call the I think that will be a good. Good question for the for the witnesses against the bill but I can tell you what I remember about it is from what I remember vendors come in that'll take care of all this for you who. As one person described coaxing Council using they make their share the money but they but this is how they handle everything in this is how you can get more income for your jail and I don't know if they're even aware of how much sometimes the calls are but they're outrageous if you've ever you know as a preacher's kid and deal with with people that that sometimes the or in and out of jail but for whatever reasons I was very aware of of this and we can't run everything off the backs of the poor most of these people are poor so. But that's what I know about it. Senator garner then Senator Ballinger. Thank you so there's no kind of funding mechanism to replace these lost funds form right now no senator garner I didn't I didn't look for any ideas you know that's that's that's my problem with I mean I can understand being fair. And it's not a perfect system but if we're gonna Hammer jails in our shares this way take the funding away from consultant you can say this is a bad way to do it but it is the people who were. Getting arrested or in jail who are paying the fines if you ship it out to some other mechanism where they were doing that might be a fair more equitable way would still make them pay for the jails they are using because they got captured or whatever you wanna call it we'll the Senator Garner it is okay to hammer the people but it's hoped okay to hammer the. the people that are running the jails of and keep it I would keep in mind that most the people that are in those jails have not been adjudicated and so if I get arrested I'm innocent until proven guilty but you still have to pay court costs but you pay fees and stuff like that associated with that like I wanna get a like a a ballpark in our of moving violation you should have to go by their pay court fees you know if your judicata yes there's all kind of costs associated with things anyway but I understand the point I just until we can place of work if you have brought a bill that replaced the fund mechanism might be much more support let me remind you to that it's usually and let's say that we go back to the other they're guilty blah blah Law it's not usually them that are paid. This is mom and Daddy Graham all. Exedra who's getting this collect call. And are they going to accept it and pay the outrageous fees are they going to refuse to talk to their loved ones in jail. Thank you. Senator Ballinger. Thank you Mr you are you're definitely not alone Senator Clark the problem is from the practical standpoint is without having an ability to either transition out of this for and and like nothing else I appreciate the fact that you're bringing this this at a attention you know to this issue because I feel like they're going to feel obligated to to address it but at the same time I to me you know doing it you know basically cold Turkey cutting it off is going to be really hard for jails to. I have had one county doesn't have a jail because they can't afford to the looking trying to find every possible way to do it I just the I I don't I don't like the idea of of doing it on the backs of the of inmates like that in a way that does seem to be abuse of the same time it's also kind of hard to tell a. The to tell jail they didn't have the money to find some way to fund it made it you can understand that there is it seems to be from my standpoint some assessing the the figure out either a time frame for transition or another funding mechanism to replace right I'm sympathetic to that on one hand and then on the other hand if this was Long sharking if this was anything that private people were doing that's not what you'll be saying. Mr. Senator a of course as I told you have got a lot of a lot of push back on this we're gonna hear from these folks and as to your last statement there you know obviously I've been it been very vocal on payday lending and all of those things however people commit crimes I don't think that we need to bear the brunt for everything for them and they're and they're and they're in jail for a reason and so senator do you have anything else you'd like say on this before we move Senator Davis has a question. Scariest Senator Clark if you know if there are any and studies or reports anything that show how good it is for inmates to have contact with family or friends and just sort of able to reach out to that their support system and on a more regular basis I know it's hard because they're not they don't have that much money to spend week to week month to month I'm just curious if we have any information showing. Outcomes or results are improved maybe and by allowing them to have increased access to family and support system. I think that you bring up a good of a good point and I think we can imagine what the answer to that would be but no I do not do not have anything on that all right Sir Clark you have anything else before we will be allowed to close the bill yes yes No Senator a Mister chair okay do you want me to stay here but you know want want you take a seat right here and don't go too far that way we can have to these folks are time or three and I think they're all from the same perspective so one who had let both them sit down for second time I believe I have and I think these are all sheriff's sheriff Mike Smith sheriff Shane west and Scott Bradley a former sheriff and then director of sheriffs association so if two of you would like to come forward now Service time gentleman we had a very long session today what we're trying to do our business if you would both please state your name and who you represent the record you're recognized no apologies last necessary Mister chairman I I've been watching you guys all day in your body's been working very hard I'm Scott Bradley I'm the director of the Arkansas sheriff's association. I'm John Staley Lonoke county sheriff well not we traded out there is a okay all right so John Daly so who is not going to be there to you know. Mike Smith Jane Wester they both here. They're not here okay something they had to go so would be just maybe you to yes Sir I'm not so sure stay laden Scott Bradley you're recognized well obviously were oppose anything that's going to hurt the funding for detention centers. In reaching out to the sheriff's I come up with just a few points and if you don't if you'll indulge me I'll just run through them and then chairman I can answer some questions maybe. I'd like to say that most of our companies charge a and I've talked to two companies this morning a quick solutions and city Telcoin that provide these phone services. And I charge twenty five to thirty cents a minute for calls on average the cost of the families for an inmate to use the phones for the are about forty dollars a month is about what averages some are more summer the less depending on how much they want to use the phone. they get to decide basically how much they call many law abiding citizens pay double a or triple that in their cell phones I mean it's stuff we feel like that's. Not not out of hand you for detention centers lose the revenue from the in right phones there's no incentive for jails keep the phones in the facilities are this would be a big loss for the inmates because it's not only the cellphones these companies provide They also provide a well because the kiosks which is a computer in the sales that they can use or they can face time with their family and friends thank you at all so it can provide individual law library for them so they can do research on their cases it's better than the big law books that they have to try to go through that you know case together for themselves or help returnees. They provide a lot of these companies provide tablets form in there they can use these tablets read books watch movies or even further their education they can put in requests so they can put a request in to see the doctor on the kiosks if you want to see a doctor you have yet to put in a request and tell what's wrong with you obviously if it's an emergency you'll see get treatment immediately but this is how we do the requesting a lot of times there is a cost for the all this equipment that's provided in all the most inmates I think most inmates of appreciate all the privileges and being able to do the things they are able to do with these this equipment. and I do have other ways besides the phones to communicate with their families we have to provide them with itinerary and stamps so that they can they can send out letters and we have to send our was for them. And that's no charge to them and they do have a weekly visitation wrists were family and friends can come visit them at the detention centers usually through a glass on a phone I will not add that these phone calls are recorded and there there we obviously watch those for contraband for scapes and things like that so there is a a little of a cost there for for keeping up with everything. Counties will have to go to the public for if if if I lose this money they'll have to go to the public and within the Iraqi someone said earlier the budgets are tight now I really struggle to to get by. you know the inmates are incarcerated I mean they're not but on the Country Club they can't they can't come and go as they want to go I mean they're in jail and and they can't use the phone like they would normally use when they're out walking about so this is just part of being in jail Like I said they can send letters they can visit there are other avenues they can use and they can use the phone and I think it's pretty reasonable and I'd like to add to that. That if if there is someone charging thirty five dollars for fifteen minutes I would encourage him let there sure no and I'm not aware of that unless it was a now there's is a way they can call their family collect and I don't know about that I don't know what that would charge on that end but if something like this going on I think there's avenues to go down with the Attorney General and we would certainly system with that of someone if this is going on because the companies that we deal with which is again also their names correct solutions and city Telcoin I thank charged twenty five thirty cents a minute to use the phone and it's the same cost in Arkansas Oklahoma Louisiana Texas it's all the same and with these companies if there is a company that's out there processing we we would like to know that that's not what we're trying to do so with that I'll if the share Speaker answer any questions if I can thank you Leding John I we run a jail just down the road and I don't know who charges thirty five dollars a collect call from what I understand. The phone companies do that is just stupid running call collect the what are the phone companies charge Senator tales of Centrelink on whether called anymore. But I'll tell you the first call that inmate gets when he's booked into jail he or she. Is a free it's a free call the end take phone is free caller family that another there if they can't get a hold of somebody it's not like in the movies we just get one call. You get one call that you made contact with somebody and if that's different in different jails I can't tell you I just can tell you what happens along county jail. all bondsmen to their calls are free attorney calls are free. We have the where Joe's bill was video visitation you the family can come to the sheriff's office. We have a chaos there it's free now if they're at home have a large reviews there cellphone data costs a little we're just talk about the phones right now and. Thirty five dollars I would I would be highly upset I am highly upset if we can get that information I will personally contact the attorney general's office and find out what company if we find out what company I'll go for that. This funding is not a great amount it it it's not that these inmates that are. Arrested we've done affidavits I know the courts seem as innocent of proven guilty. But if we have a case against them yes any law enforcement agency we believe the guilty or would bring charges and while they're in custody that right to bond and I I do understand we have a recovery program and different things that we're trying to get these folks back into the society of efficiently and effectively. But this phone some of it is pain for the operations and maintenance of this jail these guys it's not like a daycare or turn up the TV that they watch that's how they get their news they're turning the phones. This this doesn't make a lot of money it just helps us. Pay for their stay and. I tell you that twenty five thirty cents and I have to get our rate I don't know exactly what it is but it's going to be twenty five or thirty cents that's one of the companies we use those two companies two more jails in Arkansas than any other company. There is come is doing wrong let us know so sure all spread the word that any questions for us I'm I'm willing to answer as well. Senator garner thank you so I make sure I understand correctly if the inmate calls collect that's not anything to do which are you know just that's the company collecting that charge like you want a collect call if the inmate calls a lawyer or certain other privileged people there's no charge on that if they do the kiosk thing in your jail they can speak there's always exceptions in the charge the company you don't get anything when I click call comes through the only revenue you get is from the coals that you charge the twenty five to thirty five cent rate is that correct. That's correct they they can also by phone cards And. Yes the the collect call if they call collectors just like a Speaker phone number and your call collect you have not do with that other shall provide access for the phone which they found to those companies and I don't believe that they don't charge anything that point the. To the family is that the family has to accept that click okay I understand that yes Sir yes Sir. I just wanna add again and I think it's important to note that on these phones they can call their attorney anytime. It doesn't cost anything I was internees there to accept the call they can also call the bondsman anytime fact we encourage them with the jail system situation the way it is we encourage them to call those folks and make arrangements to get out until the court date comes I was talking the sheriff and I didn't get this information and he can only give me what he has otherwise curious about an average stay what's an average day in the county jail we're just gonna very willing to share with means to me it was only like a week maybe a little bit longer an average day before somebody could by now I think that's important to add to how much revenue DO get from this fall of record German the. I don't have the exact numbers but I I can get those and get them back to you but it's all hyped within thousands or tens of thousands you know I. Depends on the jail on the size of the jail no Pulaski County is going to be a lot greater than we have a hundred fifty beds it's really based off of that and I would say. Tens of thousands okay that's what I would but. Making money that's the sorry we're doing it's actually understand from this all thinking. I know that that in our county the growing county Faulkner County and we we they're constantly in need of funding to keep up in this the jails that typically are one of the biggest problems mean these counties is the cost to keep them up so appreciate your testimony membership okay sorry Senator Tucker. Thank you Mr thank you for being here for the work that you do. Can I just wanna understand the logistics a little bit better is the front funds not in the cell is it is in the cell. Different jails are built different ways but we have a part system looks like an orange center the tower but each part a B. C. D. E. and F. and there's a bank of five phones so out of thirty inmates in that part. There's five phones to use so their average calls are probably. Twenty seven fifteen minutes in on their own time because everybody's using. And so much turn it up yeah you know and they're calling their their X. amount was calling him and breaking things and the other in the sales itself we also have won an intake. The one in tax free right so so when I when I make a call from one of not the intake from Little one of the other phones you're charging by the minute the company that puts it in you you contract with coming to guess they charged by the minute and averages between twenty five and thirty cents a minute okay. All right I thought I heard you say this but I just wanna make sure I am understanding. Of the twenty five to thirty seven spermathecae charging all the revenue you get from it that's that that's goes to pay for more than just the phone system pays for other stuff in the jails we don't get the complete twenty five thirty cents we get a portion that I understand and I don't remember the breakdown save seven percent ten percent someone yep and I can get all that information. But yes that that money pays for the infrastructure the company's to set that stuff up a minute please come services and it also we get a portion of that which offsets the cost of replacing certain items like the phones in the TV's TV's are connected the phones except for that's one way we have to operate. Thank you. Right Senator Ballinger. Thank you Mr. If we've visited with the bill sponsor instead of using the indicator of national right what we just capped at thirty cents would that make it where you all with that cause you trouble to operate but if it's twenty five to thirty cents a that's the top and with that limit your ability to to implement and have the funds and so forth Senator I think would be willing to discuss them and I ask that same question to talk to vendors today and they said that's the only thing that we would be competing with his inflation different things going on as the years went by but right now we feel like the twenty and thirty cents very reasonable it I and I I thought about that same thing is any time you put a price in there over time however it may actually give you guys a pretty good tool to negotiate with them because that the off trying to find a way to fit it underneath whatever the legal captains Mr. Any further questions. Seeing none thank you for your testimony we appreciate both of you being here sheriff. is there anyone else I think the weather to that we had signed up or not presence was or anyone else would like to speak for against the bill. Senator Clark would you like to come close bill Sir. Thank you Mr chairman of the committee you know these are good guys. And Again having been with home court and knowing what they're looking at I appreciate what they do and it does cost to run the jail The. and some of the suggestions that were made especially Senator Ballinger there at the end. Of I don't have a problem I don't think any of us to with with them charging a reasonable price of and if if they don't have a problem with putting that in law I'm good with that and if we do something else I don't have a problem with put it going into effect two years from now of so that we have the fiscal session and the and the next regular session to deal with that but it needs it we need to have a where we know. That it's up again for they can take a reasonable cost. But worse not exorbitant so for that reason. it assuming that somebody's going to work with me and I'm not so much all. A will pull it down today without objection okay and that that's that's appropriateness of bills pull down. The. Senator Clark we've got several more and not you know My hope is get out here five thirty do you think that you can give a synopsis of these on save save the the preaching for if when they get serious. I don't know Senator yes Mister chair up or told you that I will I will do my best to give a synopsis Hey remember the chair it is is absolutely put himself behind you this is what the deal is is that I'm I could went first year and I didn't because I don't want to give different so if this is a state or one is very simple. Okay so here's where we're at I don't have anyone here I believe for a H. B. one sixteen sixty six repressed over today and Senator Clark we've been informed on this J. R. eighteen which it actually is not an Arkansas constitutional limit so moved it to the regular agenda but I've been informed actually shell bill. It is so senseless yeah it's not ready to have a be ready Monday but it's not ready all right so I don't pass over the shell which was recorded our rules and then you in that you're recognized at this point what I will say these are constitutional amendments what I like today is just simply a synopsis of what you want to do and Constitutional Amendment the committee has made a decision once we come to a point where we see some of these are gaining support center then we will definitely take testimony more of us because we'll be voting on which ones we want put forth and just J. R. three is the only one I see I've already told people that would help present that it would be and they are here to make an abbreviated but the rest I think we can present very quickly okay let's just take home as the R. center once you start with one of and Esther one is amended to the Arkansas constitution that a municipality may encourage short term financing character obligations of. A period of ten years its current constitution it's five years of which I lock up for the purpose of acquiring part trucks and I had a it's a smaller municipality come to me of and present a very real problem that they're all facing is they can't by far truck and make the payments in five years the purpose of the constitutional law is very good that you're not obligating future city council members because they come in you're so far and that they have no authority to do anything but the realist the the ability to buy a fire truck is very important and that you can't do it most of them can't do it in five years of so I'm not honestly don't expect it to be one of the three but in order to fix it it'll take a constitutional amendment. So. That's my presentation all right. Seems like a reasonable idea there a lot of great ideas companies it's unfortunate we can't do everything Senators you have questions on this Senator Ballinger. It I'm not seeing the exact we're going this is a good example of you know if we can't get agreement on some other resolution I mean it may very well end up making it through simple because we're we don't have the ability to it's it's mundane and it's not going to offend anybody so no it is still a good one to have out there just in case you can't it's a good idea yep yeah. All right I do not have anyone here to speak for against this was or anything further on that senator and no Mr as a say will definitely be coming back for more robust discussion once we things things see things begin for about was going to say STR two STR to think is one of the more important of. Resolutions that have been put out to be considered as a a number of ballot issue to to amend the Arkansas constitution. And thank the need for this has been shown in the last year in fact most of us or I should say most of us lot because I'm not sure of that but lots of us thought we already had that ability with I've been told the whole time I was here that the legislature could call itself into session and then we got together with B. L. are in around may and they said no you can't and so we begin to write some things in this says that fifty one house members and eighteen senators and sign a petition to call the legislature into session and the same way as the governor would do it you have to have a set agenda and what it is you're going to look out of and how long it will be in session it wouldn't exceed fifteen days unless you were in an emergency in which case you could vote to stay in session as long as the emergency lights to. And. I'll be happy to take any questions. Senator garner. Thank you Mr president. Senator Davis has a bill for similar this and just be honest I think it's it's better for a few reasons first it doesn't require the governor in any capacity do anything this requires us to ask him to put us in a special session shall honestly for change the constitution we can cut the governor completely out of that no offense the governor anybody else secondly the Senate agenda pour I just don't light because as we learned this last pandemic say we did do this mechanism I'd rather have the ability to be flexible and discuss any topic that could come up to be discussed so I'd I'd I'd I think those two things are more approved in their build in this so that's why I would prefer their bill of yes you know I completely disagree with the idea behind it. Senator Ballinger. Thank you Mr I would agree with Senator Garner say for one thing your bill is better because it provides a mechanism for the majority of the body to call us in the session so what what it would be really good at is if there was a combination of those two things I mean I actually agree there. The resolution provides for the the Speaker pro tem the call center I think I'm I'm I think I'm good with that but I would also like the mechanism for the body itself to have the ability if the Speaker pro tem did what so there's no pride of ownership here of in a sense Davis's build better I will be one hundred percent behind it and if it needs to be amended to be some of the combination of the two of I but I think is one the most important ideas that we need to look at the forest but one of the three and there were some discussion even on. And representative Cavenaugh Senator Davis I'm I was concerned about leaving it. To the will of each successive they need to really spell out a couple things in my opinion so that it doesn't get a lot there in the future so I think thank you both have great ideas and we see we've gone through sure sure tests use me I can't speak it so insulate situation we're we definitely would have needed this so thank you for bringing it Senator anything further not owned as they are to. Unless they are three of got someone here this is getting in the sovereign immunity and I am not really qualified to speak on it but I do have someone here who helped write this bill who can. If we can come for yes Sir Josh Silverstein. Well this was not at all going to be contentious is. All right. If you would please state your name and who you represent for the record share. Sharks might need to punch your but My name is Josh Silverstein I'm a law professor and I live and work here in Little Rock but I am speaking on in my individual capacity not on behalf of the university where I teach I want to thank the committee for an opportunity to testify and given the late hour I've cut my testimony a bit short but as the chairman recognized this is controversial and I fail I feel if I don't make my points now I might not get another chance. S. T. R. three would eliminate sovereign immunity for the state of Arkansas and all of its instrumentality as it would enable any person to sue the state in state court in the same circumstances as any other type of defendant such as a natural person or corporation. For explaining why I think this would be an extremely positive change let me briefly note with S. J. R. three does not do it does not address the immunities of individuals or corporations acting on behalf of the state individual immunities would still be subject to legislative and common law regulation. Sovereign immunity is a holdover from the era when most countries were monarchies the legal basis for sovereign immunity was as follows because the monarch created the courts the monarch is superior to the courts and that's the monarch is not subject to the jurisdiction of the courts of the United States is not a monarchy nor the individual states including Arkansas the courts in this country do not owe their existence to a monarch to the executive or to the legislature instead the courts are a co equal branch of government created by federal and state constitutions accordingly the historical basis for sovereign immunity no longer exists moreover there are no longer any persuasive modern policy justifications for sovereign immunity in fact sovereign immunity is fundamentally incompatible with the rule of law due process of law the concept of a bill of rights modern societies use litigation to resolve disputes and vindicate legal rights every human being injures you or breaches a contract with you you may sue them in state court for damages a corporation partnership a nonprofit or some other type of artificial entity injures you or breaches a contract you may sue that artificial person just like a natural person in court to recover damages but if the state of Arkansas or subdivision of the state such as a commissioner university injures you were breaches a contract you cannot swim court to recover damages instead you're consigned to the claims commission and then ultimately the legislature itself there's a fundamental principle of American law that states that no person should be a judge in his own case that is exactly what happens when a person sues the state for money the legislature which is the apex of our state government ultimately decides if the injured person is entitled to relief from the government that is inconsistent in my view with the principles of due process the under wire justice system and means the sovereign immunity makes it far harder. for citizens to enforce their fundamental legal rights such as freedom of speech freedom of religion and the right to keep and bear arms to make my analysis the bit more concrete on our cans and who suffered a breach of contract from the German government could sue the German government in state court but not the Arkansas government in state court for breach of contract I simply think that does not make sense sovereign immunity has no place in a modern constitutional democracy like the United States or Arkansas in the United Kingdom the source of the American doctrine of sovereign immunity eliminated in nineteen forty seven as have a number of states of eliminated in whole or in part mostly in part in fairness in discussions over the last few years I've heard two major objections to eliminating sovereign immunity the first is that what it will significantly increase litigation that's a feature not a bug as I said litigation is how we resolve disputes in our society it's perhaps the most important mechanism for protecting fundamental legal rights and it's one of the key ways we keep government in check the alternative to litigation is simply that rights can be violated with impunity or certainly with much more impunity than when courts are open to legal claims the second argument against eliminating sovereign immunity is that it will hold the citizens of the State financially responsible for the wrongdoing of their government but once again that's a feature not a bug as I said we live in a constitutional democracy government officials represent the people and their chosen by the people the government the agency the governor the agency heads all the view me as a professor at a public school every person who works in government is an agent of the state and if an agent commits a wrong the principal should be held responsible for corporate officer commits a tort damages come out of the profits of the shareholders this is no different the state official injures a person or breaches a contract. On behalf of the state rectifying that wrong should come out of the taxes that every our cans and paints in some because the people that's the state with its power and authority when the state makes a mistake the people should be responsible collectively for the wrong that was done moreover holding all of us responsible creature and center for our Kansans to more carefully monitor the government and if we see too much wrong doing that results in litigation we can vote to change our elected officials in an effort to reduce such wrongdoing I will wrap up. As I said litigation as the primary tool for enforcing legal rights and the state sometimes violates legal rights just like people and businesses to that's litigation should be fully available to challenge state wrong doing just that is available to challenge private run to it whether you're conservative liberal or somewhere in between you almost certainly believe in government accountability indeed that's been the key theme of this entire legislative section session reflected in proposals to allow the legislature to convene itself in session or to limit the governor's authority during emergencies eliminating sovereign immunity is in that spirit it will help to bring about greater accountability for our government using the best tool ever created to enforce legal rights lawsuits before independent courts and I'm happy to answer any questions thank you. Senator Clark thank you just got to point this out so in a Page two a thanks section two the General Assembly may enact laws concerning the process for bringing a suit against the state of Arkansas. Sir interesting that we we we can bring a process of how to actually sue Arkansas but we want to do tort reform and actually bring a process for suing other people we become these little puppets that special interest groups can just run around just had to bring up that quick point real quick thank you Sir I'll speak to answer on that. Well you've created quite an opportunity **** sourcing for further debate it's at the appropriate time may I please comment on that no action will have you come back at another time we we as you say we we're not and we've we were supposed to be finished now Sir I apologize so again just as I said Senator Clark any of these that start getting some opportunity you'll be able to come back and be fully heard because we know. There's going to be an opportunity in the future. So senator do you have anything further or just time on this one yes of for your information going for I was frankly surprised that this was the only sovereign immunity Amendment of as much discussion as you've been since the Supreme Court ruling a lot of I think the courts may have expected us to deal with this certainly a lot of the people wants to of the Bar Association had contacted me informally I believe that they have met with the Mr Silverstein I don't know where they came when I was first contacted they very much wanted to see a small room amendment bill was over mentally they did necessarily agree with everything in this one but again I think it's something very important for the legislature to be looking at. thank you AS will close comment on this one Senator I want to ask my committee I actually told them that I try to have my by five thirty do you care to press on the can complete this or do you want to just adjourn. Where we basically we just have a couple more for Senator Clark I have to that I will lay on the table Manchete. What's that. You are. We should have Senator call will cheer for Bill Gates came in which would be passed over earlier but but look let's keep the pain going to like it so here's the thing if if here's here's what I'll say if if the member has to leave or you want to leave look we're all here working so look I don't want to cause anybody to be late for situation for the family so as your is there anyone that cares we press on just finishes offered use one leave today and I'll be happy to for whatever you want to do whatever the will of committee is. All those in favor of journeying and coming back on Tuesday say aye. All those opposed no. All right we're going to adjourn based on that Senator will come back. Thank you.