Education Committee- House

Thank. All right we're ready to roll we have a H. B. fourteen fifty one as a concurrent Senate Amendment. Reserve got free. Are you ready I'm ready thank you Mr chair thank you colleagues this is an amendment to the bilingual education into immersion program bill it add Senator Davis than urban as sponsors also makes a clarifying amendment that charter schools are also included as eligible to adoptive bilingual or dual immersion programs that pretty simple amendment if passed the Senate thirty five zero and would appreciate a good vote on the amendment I move do pass. Which will committee. I don't think we have anybody speak for against we have do pass motion no one speak for against in a committee in the car bill any discussion on the motion seeing none all in favor say aye hi any but with no resolution you passed your Amendment thank you colleagues. Chrissolari fifteen ninety two. Mr chairman with your permission I'd like to have Jerry **** join me at the table. I just want to pass this bill what's that what you wanted to pass this bill. I'm just kidding II you have to give Jerry a little healthy I'll kick everyone's for. He is recognized for going to dinner by yourself a ****. Thank you Mr chairman I appreciate your warm welcome Committee my name is Gerry **** I'm executive director of family council here in Little Rock. Members for those of you who were on Education Committee two years ago you'll remember late in the session there was a bill that was moving over from the Senate and it talked about frankly it's very similar to the community schools bill that we just recently heard that talks about wraparound medical services in the extension of two students and the question was raised by several of us of concern that that particular program could have invited organization like Planned Parenthood and abortion provider to come in and provide either sex education or really any number of services the sponsored denied that that could be anything that would happen we try to have an amendment passed and it failed well in the two years sense that that particular specter has not really left me I mean we've done a lot over the years to make sure that state revenue state funds and even at the federal level that federal funds are not used to support Planned parenthood's agenda of abortion abortion counseling This bill actually is called the student protection act because it does protect students from what I believe is a pernicious over reach or a reach into our schools by Planned Parenthood we may have been able to restrict their ability to come in and do abortion counseling or abortion referrals but to as we've seen nationally Planned Parenthood is actually discovered or try to discover other revenue streams which would include doing sex education this bill clarifies that school districts in the state of Arkansas cannot do transactions with an abortion provider and transactions is defined to not just mean only sorry. Cop bring this up let me just refer you to the definition of transaction means a formal or informal agreement contract or arrangement of any kind between a public school or open enrollment public charter school in a private entity regardless of whether the private entity or the public school or open enrollment public charter school receives anything of value in return so in other words this could be a free offering of sex education by the abortion provider in the schools that would still be a transaction according this bill it would be it would be banned. I I asked Mr **** to assist me you know I know I've brought some bills down and and been asked the question will it is the thing that you're trying to present prevent is that actually happening you sixteen nineteen project we didn't have evidence yet that there were any school districts in Arkansas or teaching it but I asked him before I would present this bill I would like to know if this is something that we should have a concern up and so family council did submit FOR Y. requests to three Pulaski County school districts two of the school districts responded that there was not anything that fit that request so I was thinking well okay we won't get anything from the third one until the Pulaski County special school districts submitted fourteen hundred pages of documents showing that Planned Parenthood was indeed working with the Pulaski County special school district in and a number of areas which leads me to believe that if Planned Parenthood is working with the Pulaski County school district they also are working with little rock and north little rock those two districts just chose to not follow the law and in give us the documents that we requested so I'm at this point I'm going to turn it over to Mr **** and let him just give you an overview of the types of documents that were uncovered that do talk about the relationship that Planned Parenthood has at least in this one school district and we believe in other school districts around the state of Arkansas. Thank you Mister chair and members of the committee I frankly didn't think we were going to get much when we submitted the freedom of information request because. What we did we ask Little Rock School District north little rock and Pulaski County special school district to give us information they had on in the interactions that had regarding Planned Parenthood we specifically name Planned Parenthood in the FY. And this represent Lowery pointed out we didn't get anything back from Little Rock nothing back from North Little Rock. And Pulaski County it said it will it's taking us awhile to get everything together and when they send it to us it was one thousand three hundred and ninety five pages of documents related to Planned parenthood with their school district now I will tell you that some of those documents were somewhat benign they were emails that somebody mention Planned Parenthood in but others were just I mean dead to rights we will come in teacher class thank you for inviting us to come in teacher class we will come and do what we did last year we will teach about pregnancy will teach about birth control and it was just a and I have it right here if you want to look at it this is not all of the information but this is some that we found very pertinent where they were actually going into the schools with Planned Parenthood personnel and actually doing classes in the public schools here in the school specifically mentioned in this we're Cloverdale middle school. We're not just talking about high school Cloverdale middle school seven hills high school clone high school Robinson fuller and you know they have a wide range of things here what birth control puberty STDs sex in the digital age sexual orientation on an agenda identity these are the this is copied off the list that playing here who provided to the schools about what they would actually teach and talk about in the schools now I know we could. Say well what we're what was in these courses and all that and you know it takes a long time to dig through nearly fourteen hundred pages of material but there's just a lot there I will tell you and so. Lest there be any doubt that I believe that there needs to be something to address abortion providers interacting with our school something that probably removes the doubt right there this this bill as far as I know what checked with the administrators yesterday and they said we're good we're neutral on the bill is what what I understood them to say yesterday afternoon when I checked with them so far as I know there is no opposition to the bill from any other sector and I would just submit to you that most of us I think would agree that there's really no good reason that an abortion provider and by the way Planned Parenthood is the nation's largest provider and promoter of abortions that's documented fact absolutely true and so if they are connected with our schools that's probably not something that we would we would want to see happen. Let me of pivot off of that in and tell you some of the documents that I found the most troubling in going through the document the document dump as it was information of Planned Parenthood had requested from the plastic county school district a school by school that inventory so to speak for the school nurses to tell them the number of students. Who were currently pregnant at their school and what this stage of their pregnancy was. Yeah that's an outside entity receiving student data that we'd say well okay there that wasn't identifiable information you didn't identify them by name will it be hiding a pregnancy I mean it just doesn't happen you become identifiable and so that is a violation of FERPA probably a violation of hip as well for those documents to be provided student data to be device provided to an outside entity there's no good reason for an outside entity to have that information and frankly and I understand the argument can be made will that that you know they're just they're talking about STDs and they're talking about sex said I think that if you're number one aim is to be an abortion provider you don't check that agenda at the door when you come in and you talk to students about other elements especially if you are trying to get specific information by school. Of the number of students that are poor currently pregnant and also finding out what held far along they were in their pregnancy that's has a of that's very chilling I think it is something that we need to take a stand on I will mention also on juries mentioned that the school administrators and have decide to be neutral is that they did provide for us some language that they wanted us to provide in that one of them was one concern they had is the will if we have if we're a rule school district and we do hire a school nurse you know how do we know if they maybe work for an abortion provider in and their other work and so we've added language in there that said that the school district could not enter into a transaction with the number of someone who participates in abortion or abortion referrals and knowingly so that would be it help them and and as long as they did not knowingly enter into that contract then it would not impact the school district to negatively and so that is that's the presentation the bill and I'm open for any questions. Reserve guard for. Thank you for reading my mind Mister chair represent Lowery thank you and for your their explanation especially at the term transaction in the bill I understand that you craft that to be fairly broad to include and you know volunteer or formal or informal formal paid or unpaid to me I read that as an even a situation where appearance may work for into an abortion provider be at a healthcare provider and apportion clinic that that parent could not the income in be a volunteer in the school could not and service that a room mom could not and you know help out with with family night and that's the way I read that and that has brought as it's written on the definition transaction can you correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's important to it and I appreciate question thank you for giving us opportunity to clarify first of all they're only to abortion providers in Arkansas. there to to licensed abortion facilities in Arkansas they're both in little rock one is Planned Parenthood the other is little rock family planning services so what this does is this bill's very narrow it does not address referrals for counseling for abortions or any of those kind of things it just says the school can't have an at a transaction with an abortion provider somebody who's doing the abortions and we narrowed that based on recommendations from the administrators they were the ones that say we need to narrow that some and we we agreed to that and so again we're talking about two to two entities in Little Rock they do abortions that's the Planned Parenthood here in Little Rock in the surgical abortion facility here we're just saying you can't have transactions with those those entities that would be it. Follow up. So even though they're only to a parent who works at one of those two abortion providers could not be a volunteer in his or her child's classroom. That person is not the if that person is the abortion provider if they're actually doing the abortions it without saying if they if they are actually participating in that then yes they would now if they does work over there they answer the phone over the or something like that. Probably they probably would would it would exclude them because they are connected with the abortion industry I think the question this committee would have to ask Is though considering all the people that could be doing things at the school you know is that likely to happen since we only have two facilities in the entire state. Thank you. Any other questions. Seeing none is there anyone the audience I have no one signed up to speak against this bill the one like speak against it for. Select close review. Yes committee I appreciate you you'd allow me to bring this bill to you I think it's very important that we that we take this stand we have we have advocated very consistently that we are a pro life state a pro life legislature and I think as I mentioned earlier I don't know that no matter what the instruction would be that that person who in their main area of expertise provides abortions they don't check that at the door and I think I think it's aptly named the the bill is aptly named a student protection act that we have the the responsibility to protect our students from from I believe what is a it is insidious outreach so I appreciate to your support and I make a motion to pass. The motion to pass the discussion on the motion representative of. Thank you Mr chairman I don't think it's the secret while be consistent bill I think when we begin a target organizations I don't think that and that's a good thing I know that Planned Parenthood one of the things they do is probably our worship services but there's a lot more than you planned parenthood offers in when you begin to talk about we're going to take six education on the schools when you're not talking about STDs different things like that. I think it's more harmful to the children then it's protecting them in so with that I I would say I'm going to be voting against this bill thank you. Any other discussion. Seeing none all in favor say aye. He opposed no. The eyes have it. All right at this time will go a lot older Senator Hickey is here to run his bill not telling that of his busy a man as he is when he got here I would let him run here so we're here to hear SP five eighty four. It's also my bill but I'm I think he'll do a whole lot better job presenting that I doubt that thank you members there's a lot of work to swing through the end of this bill not only through the House with the as representative Cozart is his bill and others the Senate higher ed and the water itself it'll have all work on this whenever you try to put this on paper it gets a kind of hard to read but really the premise of the bill is basically common sense and straightforward and I like to refer to this bills are as safe for the lottery. I got to give you some history and this will take me just a moment here but whatever we started the lottery probably what we should have done is we should have allowed the water to get up and running parked the operating proceeds in an account. And then see how much money we had in that account after a year and passed and then started paying out scholarships based on the amount that was in the account. We did not do that is most of you all know. We had to perform some drastic restructuring of our scholarship and do some additional things within the lottery to help maintain it solvency we have never been able or willing to correct this ongoing financial issue because we would it would have to stop paying scholarships for a year which is not a viable option since we have students in the pipeline depending on on this money are we would have had to take a massive amount of state general revenue to fund all the scholarships for a year would you all know is not feasible. However a one time opportunity exist to correct this ongoing financial concern to help maintain that are met maintain that the amount of lottery money. Available matches a scholarship money paid out. We're projected to have round numbers of approximately a hundred million in a trust account which we set up a few years back when we were attempting to correct the cash flow issues were having with the lottery in the scholarships. This bill allows for those funds are in that trust account to be used full to you be used to fully fund our current lottery scholarships between July first of twenty one and June thirtieth the twenty two. While we're using these trust funds proceeds of watery of course will be operating in making money during that same period of July first of twenty one through June thirtieth of twenty twenty two. We within park the operating proceeds at the lottery's making an account which will allow us to know how much cash is available for scholarships beginning in the fall of twenty twenty two. Of course we all hope that funds are always available to fully fund all scholarships with the General Assembly allows however page forty of this bill provides if funds are not available the academic challenge will be funded first and others will be on a pro rata basis the bill also provides that if we do not have funds available to fully fund all scholarships that either a you'll see your joint budget a foreign session will be notified immediately to look into the issue and possibly allow boring through the shortfall shortfall account which is currently set up in in effect by remember correctly we have twenty million that sitting there for that for that particular purpose. We also currently have another issue and that all general assemblies this one included file scholarship bills which affects the amount of money required for lottery operations to fully fund the scholarship there want to do. Or to put in place without regards the yearly cash flow. Of per despues me without regard to the yearly cash available through net lottery proceeds and general revenue revenue given for that purpose. This bill establishes a procedure or all proposed scholarship amending legislation will be introduced within the first thirty one days of a regular session. That doesn't count for this year we have a exemption in there for this year we also will be proposing joint house and Senate rules along with this legislation to call awareness to the future of future general assemblies in regards to this requirement. After this thirty one days what the bill does is the house and Senate education committees will meet jointly decide what to refer out to the General Assembly this will be done by separate vote also. During this meeting analysis of whether the scholarship can be afforded will be calculated by using the form which which begins on page thirty three of this bill. The legislation also says the new scholarship will not take effect until at least one year has passed. Members I'll try to answer questions and just to try to help you out There's forty four pages in this bill page one to twenty nine or is clean up language I'd ask the bureau to go through there and to clean up things now whatever I say clean up there's my items in there that that we didn't even need within the code some of it was duplicated some of it was at the wrong at the wrong place because over the years that lottery bill is had grown over a hundred pages so we try to go through and clean all that up the media the bill actually starts on page twenty nine. Mr I'll try to answer any questions are there any questions. Robson Murdock. Thank you again thank you chair of as it relates to poor or do you do to address that that academic challenge is the first priority as it goes down from that if with and if there becomes a situation where it needs to prioritize because of lack of funds if you will what becomes a priority after that and who makes those choices that that's higher ed is written into the bill that it will come before a LC or Joint Budget to be involved with those discussions if that were to happen of course you know what would to what I'd see transpiring of course is that You know if we were to run short run short on money a higher it would bring Dale C. because it'll probably be in the offseason again we have twenty million dollars that are sitting in a the route shortfall Reserve trust account that we could borrow from. At that point I'll see would either say we have we want to do that or we don't want to do it then of course it would be across whatever scholarship to put in place over above the academic challenge which right now is the work force in the concurrent. we have some nursing scholarships that we pay but that's a structure a little odd those don't come out of the the watery proceeds but they actually come out of the twenty million dollars in the general revenue that goes into the lottery that that would that portion so we comes out of that of that part probably should not have been set up that way but it was years ago whenever the lottery was started and it's just something we live with. Thank you thank you Sir. Right. Thank you Mr could you explain how that the trust fund get built up so much whatever As you know represent Bragg that we had we had some major lottery issues that were going on and what what just some more background on this and then I'll lead into that what what calls to our issue mainly was is the shortfall Reserve trust account that we had the the court language that we have in place what it does is it or allowed higher it departed from that if funds were not available immediately without it coming before a O. C. or Joint Budget and the language says that in the next fiscal year that the first funds that we have That was that we made from the lottery would be used to replenish that. To be honest that all sounds good and great now I think that there was some good intentions whenever that went into place the the problem was is we were barring quicker year after year and we were going to read to reach a point where they were going to going to come together. So whatever we finally realized what was going on because we started having some red flags that were were popping up what what we did at that time is we as you probably know we change some of the things within the scholarship itself what we did of course was we went to the ACT instead of the grade point but probably the biggest thing that we did to help with our cash flow at that time as we were paying out if I remember correctly. Thank you was four thousand dollars for first year students we lowered that back to one thousand but we put it into the second and third years so with those students were perf if thank you still come but they're only getting the the smaller amount in the first year but if they performed income back in the second year. Then they were able to get that money. That that parties were we probably save the most money because we had so many students were coming in. Order you know we're not completing and we're not able to stay in college and we're just losing that so that's that part is is how. Is is how it kind of transpired that we started putting this money into this trust account. Because at the same time we had set up a a new scholarship for workforce workforce challenge scholarship that is not people of not take in the opportunity you know to get that money like they should it's just grown over the last it seems like that I was dealing with this you know five six years ago so it's just grown over those years following. So when you swipe that Hendren million out to use what will there still be a revenue stream and of the trust fund. There will not okay there will be a new trust fund you know they could use the same one but what we're doing is we're whatever we we're gonna be using those funds those funds to pay you know whatever the current scholarship is. The law as we're using those funds are save I will call it a savings but is not but we're using that to to fund our operations for that year whatever the operations of the lottery whatever that's going to be they will be parked into a trust fund that will start using every year because it'll be one year behind or when you're in arrears okay thank you thank you. Any other questions. Seeing none hello I'm sorry. We can see you again thank you Mr new to the club years of trying to understand did you just give me a brief overview what are we spending of distributing the last couple years and longer she and skews me in the lottery scholarships and the breakdown and then I know we're tracking it when you mention those how do we know how many we have that are starting you know get this scholarship go year and then and then drop off. Okay let if if higher it's here bye bye NO the upon that they may know the amounts of course the analysis at work that you all start doing your joint committees you'll know that's part of this legislation you know exactly how much we're spending not only is acuity total but each scholarship themselves to kind of see how much we're putting out plus whatever new scholarship is being proposed what the cost of it will be but as far do you have what to what we paid out in academic challenge scholarships for. Every year this last year would probably be sufficient. Does that include work forcing concurrent. Okay academic challenge we we paid out she said about ninety million. And then of course we have workforce and concurrent. Ninety one point five. One point five to two million on on those now. What everybody here needs to understand is the water is not making enough to to fund that ninety two or ninety three million dollars. The it's that plus the twenty million that we put in every year for general at a general revenue also so the water is not fully fund and that is only because we drop at twenty and they've been doing that since inception of the lottery as far as I can remember. Any other questions. Seeing none is there anyone in the audience would like to speak against the bill. For the bill. It's like close for your bill I'm closer thank you were closed have a do pass for a representative all. A discussion. Seeing none all in favor say aye opposed no. Resolutions you have passed our bill I appreciate it thank you in bring this up yes Sir I do want your notes. Or at least you could copy to give to. Represent Pilkington. We have an amendment for his bill thanks to get rid pass that out. All right we have an amendment passed out. It's like it's fairly simple. Yes Sir represent back. It's not the amendment. Eighteen sixteen. R. thought you said this is not the amendment I'm sorry. You know what here well I don't see will and don't pay attention so. And Mike will know what I'm sorry yes motion to adopt all in favor say aye opposed no are you may be present as amended thank you Mr chair thank you Committee serve in front of Education for the first time ever since my third term and you are so scary I waited till I've been season to come down here it ain't easy. what I bring to you is that the constituent Evan Bill we had a situation at Clarksville high school recently with students displaying different flags obviously aimed at. I would say. Harassing other students things like that and so the school. Did not feel comfortable making calling balls and strikes on that so they just banned all all flags and obviously there were constituents of mine who are upset that we are basically telling students that are not even able to fly the American flag so I'm Dalby the caller superintendent he was great you know we kinda talked about the the pitfalls of you know allowing this kind of expression of flags on the back of vehicles things like that and after we can spend a few days chewing on it we realize was you know we're okay with this plan the flags but one flag that unite us things that we can all agree on you know we're all Americans we're all our Kansans in in Johnson County were all Johnson County ites you know and then at the school district they're all members of that school districts so with that would be great would be if we're able to say you know if you want to find American flag that something that despite who you are in this country we all look to that flag as a symbol of who we are and so that's why we just want to basically allow us to to fly these flags and so so that's why we create this bill it will allow the schools to make that decision to allow the flying of the American Arkansas county and school district flags which anyone who goes that district is all part of those these are flag that unify us not divide us and. That's why did not the amendment we just had was from the department that they had Just said that they are worried about some schools that formed delegations of students they use black this weather welcoming ceremony and so we just want include that because obviously that that's kind of an extenuating circumstance not the norm and that's that's it it's very simple very easy and with that I'll take any questions. Representantes three. Thank you Mr chair thank you representative Pilkington and I I think that I support this bill but I listening to your presentation at. With the way I read the bill was that this was flying flags outside kind of the official answer key at the the official presentation of flags on the school grounds is it broader than that it doesn't include you know in a you know France is a foreign language classroom where student expression of a flying a flag on the back of their truck help me understand just how how broad it goes yeah it's it's on the ground it's in relation with the school comply and then if you look in the last on a page to the public schools are not part of the flying of the flag permitted or required under this section to basically saying aye schools can't say you can't fly American flag or in our Arkansas flag and so we're just we're prohibiting not We're having prohibiting thanks for allowing the flying of those flags by students or faculty site and Arkansas and an American flag or a county wide would would be prohibit or would be permitted to be flown by US sooner but having a classroom yes yes yes yes one more follow up okay so as far as you know in individual classrooms such as that of a Spanish class they could have a Mexican flag or a Spanish flag or or things like that kind of as cultural display of the content of the academic class yes yes okay thank you and again appreciate the bill I'm in full support and motion of property. President Pilkington this does this exclude Confederate flags that bill and flags and things like that yes you you will not be able to fly those flags yeah that was always a part of the conversation that came up was you have someone to fly a bind flag or trump plag you can't play there those you know it and unfortunately not you know we were talking so we know teenagers to my fly something controversial just to get a rise out of their fellow students and that's not what we're wanting we're at we're at environment at schools to learn and we just thought you know like I said these are things that unify us not divide us that we all can look and say I am a part of that flag I'm an American and I cans and I'm a member of this council and a member of the of the school district so that that's why it was just this less and that's what we're trying to do an event Division I would also say that that would probably let them and would not prohibit would prohibit them from flying a. Flag of a rival school home that campus true right. I I guess it wouldn't processing from the drop. What could that could cause some Division rule okay just just make sure represent Murdock. Thank you to a representative Pilkington what what precipitated this to make you bring this to the committee with the I had that with an issue an arts at our schools in Clarksville with People find various different flags and then students tearing down the flags of other other vehicles and things like that it does it was going back and forth between students and not a playful manner and so just they blanketed. No fight of any flags and so obviously there are some people he said listen I did anything wrong I love to put American flags on the back of my truck and and drive around and you know why am I suddenly being punished that we we wanted to make sure that those people are doing the right things are being punished those who just want to you know show their patriotism either love their state or the county or the school district you know if the homecoming game and they want to fly you know the Clarksville Panthers flag on the back of the truck they're able to do it thank you representatives. Thank you Mr chair just undertaken to keep mentioning the the parking lots and things so how does this if a student wants to fly whatever kind of flag on the back of their truck or a even just to the ball game that night parents come in with the flag on the rise is any of that touched by this I think parents would be from my understanding the legislation parents wouldn't be affected by this is just students who attended the school and faculty. Follow up but so students it's in a school nothing on the back of trucks is what this is doing no you you can you can have a flag but it has to be one of these what did the is dead only these correct yes thank you. Razorback flag. If you say it's the unofficial five Arkansas maybe a. Let's though I think what you're trying to say with that be up to the school district to allow that. Bars that are just going to go you got have a issue razorback. You know you see you got all these different colleges that these kids maybe start to go to that might have that flag they will fly so it when the line I think that were referring to is a public shall not prohibit so it's it's just saying that they can't ban the flying of the flag permitted under this law which are the ones I've mentioned that that could be it to the school district if they feel that they're they can allow that so isn't that control okay so I think I I think I understand you're you're saying those flags you mentioned cannot be banned correct so the rest of would be up to if there are causing a problem go ahead rich if you want to ask questions I think I think that's what you mean you you really mean that the okay what with the chair was was really going that let me be more specific when he so when he said the school days a state you see a Arkansas Razorbacks you're saying that someone else has to give permission for that or that's on a list is already allowed you that would be up to the school to make that determination of of what they can find what they can't so. Like I said the problem we had was everything got banned and so we're just trying to say well you can't ban at least these because these are things that all unify us now they can expand that if they want to in the school feels that they have a policy that is fair but this was an issue with the school just blanketing banning everything and and they felt like they were in a position where they want the state to come in and give some guidance and and like I said my superintendent fully supports this who he's the one who helped me come up with this idea what what and I and I am speaking not trying to speak for you isn't it obviously but I don't think that the intent here is that we ban these flakes we're talking about now I don't think that's intent because you know the the staff in the superintendent people come with various universes schools of this that is not bad does not negatively school spirit is morale there's a lot of positivity to goes into I mean if you want to support your school yes with the flag so at. Bills can't prohibit these blacks reject think we kind of got off to serve on this bill because I don't think it even really qualifies that I think it's more about the positioning of the flags on the polls correct what does and it's about a basically schools can't to prohibit. the flying of these flags by faculty or staff so faculty or staff want to fly these flags the school can't say no you will grounds on school grounds yes. It's it's more about that not about flammable trip. If you read the bill is very shortened and is well I did not final the polls held position if. The good. Any other questions. Seeing no other questions anyone the audience will speak against the bill for the bill closer to I'm close and closed of close what's will of committee I have a motion to pass represent makes a discussion. Yes Sir. Resolution in thank you Mr and I guess we it does say he's in in regards to the position and and and and so on a pole but I guess the scenario. I I guess I'm a little concerned because the scenario that you use so of was not. The lands that were on. School property if I'm if I'm following correctly. It was the flying of flags on people's vehicles and I guess the vehicles have been on school property. It in so. If that is the case. Then what representative Murdock. Mmhm pose the a potential issue. And so. I mean I'm not against it I think and I I think I understand what what the school was trying to prevent but I guess I just I just have a few other questions in regards to and to have how far reaching this bill is because. If it's gonna impact flags Fund there are body in on vehicles and cars. In there are now on school property. Then I guess the students would have to take them off the cars whatever before the call ended on come in the school property I don't know I just don't know the kind of the question that our our left I was left with you in regards to this bill so roof reversal of I think it still does for a dress that because it's about positioning of the flags on anything of if a vehicle parked on the school grounds it would have to be that the the US flag has to be positioned to the right place and the other flight could be on the other whatever it is so I usually just like the left side State Farm correct in the and I'm Arkansas flags on the rights of utility truck but I don't know which way you would look at or is truckers form I would say combined I think that's kind of that would be another thing that they want to fly to be positioned correctly U. S. lection always be higher than any other flying and so I'm not I'm not positive that's what this bill even gets to but we've not got in the weeds on it anyway so that would let me know I'm I would say I would be the same thing so that I mean so that that would that was the concerned in regards to. constituency concerned in I think it I think it's right to address it I'm I just I worry I worry how far reaching this bill is because if it is razorback flag this being flown I mean are being in on a vehicle in this on school property. Okay all right reserved got free I get misdirection makes next yes thank you Mr chair yeah just to clarify and because I did get back and look at the original code it does say that this you know that the probation is only under in this section of new code are also under six sixteen one oh five which talks about and you know that the duty to procure a suitable United States flag flagstaff and the next necessary appliances to display with all proper curtesy a pioneer in the school building during hours of school session it and and other such times so to me this is this is really about the kind of official flying of the US flag on school grounds on school property and you know school district's sees that there is a problem with you know flying flags out of truck beds that that would not be with all proper curtesy upon it in or near school buildings during hours of school session so and you know I see this as as pretty narrowly tailored maybe more narrowly tailored even then the representative looking tense I presentation went but this section of code is about the official display of flags and and my understanding is that he's saying we can't prohibit the American flag the and Arkansas fight in the county flag to be flown in the Senate official capacity that spelled out in this code eight I do think that's good I think it's good to you you know only display those flags in the official capacity of the school again as far as truck beds go to me that is beyond what this code. Currently permit so I'm yes. Richmond. Thank god I think representive got free kind of talk to got forward the the flying of both of people's flags on truck beds I think is beyond the scope and is not addressed in this bill the bill says a public school choosing to fly additional flag so this is the school and its official capacity they have to apply the Arkansas flying they have to fly the United States flag but in their official capacity if they would like to they have the option to add the county flag a public school flag and then a you know a form County delegation so in my reading of the bill that's all does we're just saying you have to fly they already have to fly the American an Arkansas flags what we're saying if they want they can add these three flags and that's the scope of the bill doesn't address truck beds and all that kind of stuff so are yes vote any other discussion. C. none all in favor say aye opposed no. Resolutions pastor bill thank you Committee. Rosa Dotson. Just for your information will be skipping over the bill right under that eighteen thirty one we'll skip in here Thursday we have another one is going to be a kind of go with that one so we are about the same time so represent Dotson you're recognized for eighteen thirty thank you Mr chairman or the committee H. B. eighteen thirty. As an actor create the religious viewpoint anti discrimination act So basically what this does is it and so I'm unaware of there being any problem in the state of Arkansas but it would put into statute what is basically the practice right now That a students a public school students voluntary expression if any of a religious viewpoint on an otherwise permissible subject would be treated in the same way as their voluntary expression of a secular or other viewpoint on any otherwise permissible subject making sure that the the district to cannot discriminate against the student either positively or negatively for their religious viewpoint whatever that happened may happen to be rather than going into a whole lot of other detail I'm sure you've all read the bill and be more than happy to try to answer any questions. Rupture Love you're recognized thank you Mr can you give me a practical application of the of the of this bill. So probably one of the ones that jumps out and comes to mind would be like a a students prior to school graduation something along those lines if they wanted to do that thought the bill also clarifies in there if there's any type of Homework classroom art work assignments things of that nature if if they had a some type of religious viewpoint with regards to those things they couldn't be discriminated against as far as either giving a penalty or reward for expressing that religious viewpoint in their their coursework. Thank you president got free. Thank you Mr chair thank you representative Johnson I have a few questions and I can get back in the queue if I need to and. I'm the first curious about the the establishment of a limited public forum that's required now for all. At a limited public forum for student speakers at all public school events at which a student may speak publicly so can you tell me about that that's a now we're creating like a new space for kids to be able to share their religious viewpoint even if it's not a religious topic or king I I just don't understand that but the question right by it can you explain that part so basically if if the school district had a limited public form for for school speakers for student speakers giving speeches you know say is a speech and debate team or or something like that they couldn't. The school district would have to develop the policy that would not disallow religious the points from being shared within that for. Follow up. Recognized so you know things like a pep rally their students because there is a cap to the football team sharing you know as speech about. Getting pumped up to to play the football game a basketball game so see so schools would have to adopt a policy to allow a religious viewpoint to be shared at a pep rally for shared at a you you know I'm a talent show or a I have a student family night where students are coming and presenting that a common project that they're working on the now that we have to create a space to to allow religious viewpoint at all of those spaces students are speaking that just seems so brought to me well it wouldn't disallow it from it's obviously a voluntary expression of students the point if they have one so the limitations within there would be that procedures the public school's student Speaker could not engage in speech that's obscene vulgar offensively lewd or indecent so those limitations would be in there and this this bill is based off of a Texas law that was passed dozen or so years ago and and so that that's the the framework of the the the language that's it was put into this bill to make sure it could if challenged B. something that. Who would not be challenged bill or it has already some case law regarding it. Follow up which bank you pretty long whiskers thank you Mr misrepresented mackenzie you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair and representative Godfrey did get that was one question I had was with regard to the public form and the establishment of I was confused about it and I see above that that the school board or the district needs to adopt a policy with regard to these things so when I was reading as last night because I and I. Think I certainly support the intent here I just try to put myself in the position of a school board when they read this I had a hard time absorbing what all they needed to do and how they would it said about these policies and these these limited public forum so could you just give. I just a brief rundown of I'm a school board this passes what all how involved is it that they have to come up with different policies so they understand right there on the lower shelf what they need to do I think would be relatively straightforward and simple that they their policy could be as simple as we do not. Allow discrimination on on a religious viewpoint from being shared by students nor do we encourage it one way or another the the school district is completely neutral in that regard obviously they can limit the if there's obscene vulgar offensively lewd or indecent language being there but if it's some other type of viewpoint it's being shared by students whether it's in any sort of secular way this would also enable them to Not be discriminated against based on their religious viewpoint whatever that happened to be so basically it's it's an opening up of free speech within that that district for that student to be able to express their religious viewpoint whatever may happen to be without any type of Really additional benefits or or penalty from the district standpoint. Recognized. Okay. So from the from the district standpoint I'm grasping what you're saying nothing's necessarily changing for the better or for the worse per just really solidifying. Right putting in the statute at at. I think that there's and the the department may be able to speak to it I think there's a a Commissioner's memo that that basically. Requires the sort of thing already but this is putting it in the statute so that you know in the future it would have to be another statute would have to be passed in order to undo it. Representative Deffenbaugh. You Mr I like what you did here representative of. I give you situation are if you can answer any by can that. And about nineteen eighty five eighty six somewhere in there them here was put under federal court injunctions so knocked out prayer and ball games and knock out you know not cast several those things so as far as I understand those objections I guess the last indefinitely I don't know so how would you get a idea have. The injunction would be affected by this law. So that would probably be a a question for an attorney that you could speak to the federal versus state jurisdictions there from my observation in the past anything we do in state law doesn't supersede federal court orders so I don't know that this would affect that injunction at all but I would defer to somebody else that that might have that absolute answer that's my guess okay follow recognized okay one other thing is it what kind of let's say a teacher you service that that or or have you say city to does allow students to have a safe ride the paper they have freedom to write an essay uses Christianity or uses Islam or whatever what kind of if they refuse that kind of stuff. Is your act what kind of punishment would there be for that are or what kind of repercussions would be. What what kind of punishment repercussions for it for the teacher or the student yeah I should say teacher if they if they're denied those the right you're talking about. So if a if a teacher denied the student the ability to write the paper that that specifically prohibited in the bill so if you look on. Sturch. I think it's Page. Page three I believe a public schools item D. one a public school student express his or her religious viewpoint if any in the following context without discrimination based on the religious content and then it goes into the list if any homework classroom artwork or other written or oral presentation or assignments the public school students homework classroom artwork or other written or oral assignments shall be great and judged by an ordinary academic standards of substance and relevance and against other conventional pet a logical topics as identified by the public school district so. That the basically under this teacher could not disallow the student from from expressing their religious voice viewpoint or penalize them I mean penalize them or reward them for that behavior in their in their. Paper written or oral assignments okay hi thank you. Representative makes. Thank you Mr chairman so an example we've had the stories in the past we've heard were valedictorians when they go to present their speeches I've been told that and you can do a prayer but the prayer has to be you know completely devoid essentially of any. Religion I almost say or thank you can't mention Christ in your prayer what we're saying here is schools are not gonna be allowed to do that if it's if if a student wants to mention Christ in their prior they can mention Christ in their prior or I remember time is as a use an art class we were told to draw a picture of our hero and I wanted to draw a picture of Christ but the teacher told me no I wasn't allowed to do that that I needed to pick some other hero in an passage of this bill I would have been allowed to draw that picture all right lord also thank you Sir. Representative Lowery. Thank you Mr chair I'm thinking of a particular application also when I was teaching speech I would tell the students at the beginning of the semester with that when they would do the. The assignment of a persuasive speech they needed to do a topic where there is a potential to be able to persuade members of the audience and and I gave as an example topic a topic that I did not think that they would be able to be successful because most people have their mind made up on the issue of abortion for instance either pro life over for pro choice now that was not a firm no you can't do it but I was telling them that it's really it probably will undermine your ability to be judged as being effective in being persuasive. If they were wanting to come from a religious standpoint in defending one position or the other and I was limiting and maybe even telling that it might affect their great with that violate of the strictures of this yet if it was a a school policy or the teachers policy that it would affect their grade one way or another yes this would prohibit the the instructor from saying yes this is going to limit your You're judging I guess in your your speech debate if you use religious content Obviously I can't look into the mind of a judge and say whether they did or they didn't internally do something that they can have a policy where they put that forward and said Hey you're going to be judged on this criteria that criteria being religious content if you put it in there you're going to be discounted because of it or you're rewarded because of it one way or another make your best argument whatever the case may be and will judge it accordingly it would have to be neutral from a a a policy standpoint from the district. Okay thought this follow up you're recognized will in the app it in the example like a as long as I'm focusing on their ability to be able to be persuasive not necessarily speak against or telling them you can't make religious references but that I'm trying to give them the best chance to succeed in being of graded on their their persuasive appeal that that would not violate as long as I'm not. She spoke specifically saying you can't use religious references I don't believe so I think I don't think this would prohibit that from a You know just a criteria that yeah Hey this is the best way to win an argument persuasively speaking but saying that you're going to judge them based off that would be prohibited okay thank you. Representive god for your back up thank you Mister chair I think to circle back to you and those definitions you mentioned but on page two and procedures to ensure that a public school student Speaker does not engage in speech that is obscene or vulgar offensively lewd or indecent I don't really see a definition of those terms I understand what they need in my own and interpretation connotation of those terms but I'm wondering if you could kind of expander or explain why you didn't defined those and if I'm telling a student that they're going to hell would be included as obscene vulgar lewd FOR offense or indecent. Help. If you go back up to see one. That's for public school district shall adopt a policy to. That falls under that C. two. Section there. Which is C. two D.. And so that would be up to the school district to adopt that policy and it's those terms are are not defined within the statute here so that would be a the bility of the school district to define those terms to whatever they deem fit follow up. Recognized so would you define telling someone they're going to hell or a group of students they're going to hell as obscene vulgar lewd or indecent. for the purposes of this bill at. My my opinion on that would would not necessarily Matter as far as who's going to be defining that okay again the way I read that is that that would be a religious viewpoint that that's a religious viewpoint that many people have that certain individuals or certain classes or groups of individuals are going to hell I worry that that type of speech you know the purpose of this is to not discriminate but to me that type of speech is just is discriminatory in and of itself and so if we can't limit that type of speech and in a you know a public speech or any kind of course work as a teacher can't put limitations on that which could be hurtful and offensive to to students I just worry that that that and really kind of goes against the purpose of anti discrimination. So the. The school district would be able to define probably that words that are used so if they put the word Hello as a defined term that you cannot use then that would be prohibited enter the school district's policy however as far as expressing a religious viewpoint in general they can prohibit that. Representative Devin by your back up. Thank you Mr chair Hey I know the thought came to mind since you're explain that last So how much you're how much leeway does a teacher have a mean of. If if they ask the teacher questions about that this teacher I mean art is teacher gonna get in trouble for responding to something about religion no this wouldn't prohibit a a teacher from responding to voluntary student questioning on on those things anymore than they currently are under any type of state federal or or that the constitutional free speech or freedom of religion right now this simply. Makes the district policy be such that they can't use that they can't develop a district policy that prohibits the the religious viewpoint from being shared voluntarily by the student or or. I rewards them for that. Okay okay thank you. A representative McKenzie. Thank you Mr Mr chairman and just a couple things. you mentioned that this is been this is legislation that modern legislation that's been passed in Texas that correct that that's my understanding of it yes and so how's it going did it remit anything make it better make it worse to have any follow up on how it's working in Texas I'll have to get back with you on that I. I didn't do in depth research on it I was I was a Given this First liberty institute which is for celebrity not institute yes institute is the the group that said this was the Texas statute and recommended that this be something we model this language after follow recognized thank you that was one of my questions I did notice that in this legislation that first liberty institute would present the legal defense if this were sent You see it says shall not be submitted was that explain that to me exactly so this is language that was based off of or included in the ten commandments statute that was pastor a few years ago that allow the Attorney General so if you look at Page eight line nineteen on page three it says the Attorney General may prepare present a legal defense of this act if challenged or request that first liberty institute prepare and present a legal defense of this act so if if for any reason the AGS office decides they don't want to be the ones that are defending this particular statute if it's challenged in court they can enlist the help of or the or turn it over to first liberty institute and they're an organization that will defend these types of statutes without cost to the state okay thank you. Representive brown and representative Murdock. Thank you Mr chair struggling with how to phrase this question Hey. I understand and all of us do I think there's any number of religions. That. I believe the way they do. And believe that you should believe the way they do if you don't want to go to the bad place when you dive. And that doesn't just told for Christians. if you were to start calling somebody names. That would be offense. I would think that the teacher can handle that and straighten kids out say Hey you know we don't talk like that to each other here I would just assume a teacher has the skills to handle that. Would you agree I do thank you. Represent Murdock questions been answered any other questions from committee. It is not the way to the bait got any other questions from committee. Seeing none we have Josh would Dunken. Signed up to speak against the bill Duncan are you still here with us. Josh wood duck and still in the holding room. Michelle step's gonna go just make sure. Right just city side alliance we may not be here we'll find out real quick please get real quick. Everybody kind of just occurred thank. All right anyone signed up for no one signed up to speak for go to the audience anyone against the bill. For the bill. Represent Dotson recognized of. Thank you Mr chairman members the committee I think we've talked about this quite a bit and there may be some other discussion so just I'm closed appreciate a good vote. Representative Murdock thank you chair Rosa Dotson. I'm asking because. I'm just talking to It is registration like this that that I think I understand the intent but the reason why I can't vote for you because it seems to cause more confusion it and in various levels who's who's going to referee this who's going to be the operator of these. Different layers of of things that I think you're trying to legislate that I just don't know how you do it in and like you're doing it I think I understand intent but I think it's more confusing than it is selling of anything and maybe even looking for something and and and whatever we get these I get those calls to from people that would entities in other states to do something here in Arkansas because they do it Texas Oklahoma where for the bill and it always work as smoothly and for various reasons so I think I understand intent I just think it's a great way to confusing as to how this worked out so that's what I'll be voting no this represents Godfrey. Thank you Mr chair and I wanted to follow up on an representative brown's question which I think is important exactly where it was going in an instance where a teacher you know it's it's facilitating a and a discussion in oral assignments that class work that spelled out in this bill and we have students who are sharing religious viewpoint that is hurtful or discriminatory to other students and maybe get deeply held religious belief and I understand that but it teacher Dan could not say you know that's something you're welcome to believe you're welcome to talk about that a youth group but we can't bring that discussion into the classroom this bill would for bed a teacher being able to put limitations on religious viewpoints. That are hurtful to other students such as types of students that you know as soon believes are going to hell such as you know men should have leadership over over women that dot ordain slavery these are our deeply held religious viewpoints that people have and by limiting a teacher's ability to to kind of rain that in where it can get in an oral assignment during class or it can get really purfling controversial in a classroom contexts to me is very very problematic we're also seeing an instance where you know and all of these situations where there student speakers you know we have for example a multi cultural family night we have student sharing we have a English as a second language ceremony where students are acting out of the program students districts are having to create policies to allow a religious viewpoint to be shared in these non religious situations to the point where it can even be you know we don't believe that that Muslim students are are going to have and things that are deeply held religious beliefs but that are also in the context of public school not appropriate and not edifying and not not collaborative are are kind of counter to the goals of of kind of inclusive and supportive teaching and learning in schools and so I I I of course hello I'm I'm a believer myself I'm a Christian I hope that when I share. My religious viewpoints it is always grace filled an inclusive and and full of love and hope but unfortunately sometimes I fall short in that and also others who have deeply held religious viewpoints do not always share them in a way that. Includes an elevate others and so I worry about a teacher's inability to kind of check some of those hurtful things that are said in the name of religion in a classroom context Ernestine Speaker contacts and that's when the No thank you. Representative Deffenbaugh. Thank you get this chair at. Audit showed up but I got a little built bit more seconds a bit at my particular school we fought this battle for a long time. And they still like I said it's still under federal court injunction what what happens is longtime status to check issue consider secular. They're gonna wear shirts and stuff you jam things down your throat but it seems like that Christians are you know we don't that don't hurt anybody's feelings all that and they don't get there have the same say so there's a lot of secular philosophies and so you know I I I like what you did I think this is good president. Anymore discussion from the Committee. Seeing none will vote on the motion. Remeber representative makes all those in favor say aye. Opposed no ayes have it graduation you've passed your bill thank you Mr members committee. All right at this time we'll hear House Bill. Seventeen oh one I have a request from representative Penzo. to go ahead Marion taking of the table to make sure that we hear him today he has kids here from up in Northwest Arkansas so we definitely want to make sure we get to that hearing H. B. seventeen eleven and They will try to will try to get along with them to hear eighteen fifty four if we have time. but it's right so the rest of will probably pass as only one after that districts and tall and I were talking and we'll pass over him this Thursday. All right H. B. seventeen oh one let the fun begin. Chairman colleagues thank you again for the honor to be before this of committee today I bring to you a bill that many my teachers have a question from a since I've been in office they felt I'm not sure if everybody in here is aware of a bill that was passed here in a long time ago in nineteen eighty one ACT five ninety that well one of the Supreme Court and this allowed teachers to be able to discuss creation in their classrooms and the for years I've had teachers as we would love to be able discuss creation or questions to discuss different debates that they hear they would hand Sir discussions in the classroom that would bring things that that they really cannot discuss at this point so that's the reason that I bring this bill before you today I think that And do of that bill is it behoove upon Arkansas to bring this forward and to allow that discussion to be in the classroom I can As part of my education I spent sometime in California and Bailey university and have the opportunity to work with creation research scientist there as staff members with them I really enjoyed my time there and have a. This bill over science lovers creation that we get to look at and to see that we have in this have enjoyed listening to people like John Lennix in his debates with different people that believe in evolution John Lennix is a mathematician from Oxford is to listen to his debates I learned so much I think we just our students are missing out on being able to hear that debate and it causes them to grow and hear different sides so we In our country and our country's founding many people believe that the theory of evolution star would dormitory started many many years before that and the creation of Evelyn the US are the three of evolution was around and even with our families and our founders chose to allow creation to be taught in a class inspect they encouraged it some of first bibles printed in the US were commissioned by the Congress of the United States with the the creation theory has been encouraged by our founders is our create the creators mentioned articles of independence for time so this country was founded on that those put those thoughts and theories were taught my questions for generations I think our students learn from that I think they learned from debate I think they learned from his hearing different issues I know that even in our our current standards we have great scientists like Sir Isaac Newton considered one of the greatest scientists of all time and he was a believer of creation I want he's a. Came across the US theory of gravity the law of gravity it is encouraging to see that there are laws increase in their loss to read if there's laws and creation then there is a law giver who is the creator so I think we a or students learn from this and courage from this this law is very permissive I'm not Mandinga ready to teach anything I'm just saying that there are some teachers or teachers in my district the lack the ability to discuss creation theory when they're discussing ever the evolution theory and that's all that this layout law does allow them to do that so I have a lot market share and different things but I think I'll take questions from the committee and we can share some as we go along so out with that I'll take some questions from committee members president ram. Thank you Mr chair Representative Bentley this would be a a discussion that would be more less objective and strictly avoid any type of proselytization would it not corrected this matter in August said I think debate is good it would just be a matter to preempt different theories again just discussion matters totally not the mandate disallow the teachers to bring the discussion. Thank you. President got free. Thank you Mr chair thank you represent Bentley I I appreciate your intention with this bill and wanting it to be kind of and supplemental to discussions that are already happening in schools and but the way the bill is written is not exactly and how the curriculum process works in the states the teachers don't really have just a blanket permission to teach a particular subject there are curriculum standards about all continuing as and I know that you know. Origin origins of how it was created is spelled out in in certain standards in the upper grades and so I'm just wondering why why you've created a curriculum bill this last kind of this blanket permission and not through the process of writing and adopting and specific curriculum standards that would kind of have some you know specifics spelled out of what can and should be taught in regards to creationism. I know this is a really response ACT five ninety that was passed which prohibited creation being taught in our classrooms because we're trying to get equal distance so I'm just trying to give some leeway for teachers to bring that into the discussion specially an older our high school arenas where they have different debates and different things that are going on in that arena I visited with the attorney general's office beginning in and brought this to them to begin in the very before session even started because I had by this before last session didn't bring it out so I thought I'm gonna miss the jury does office and ask them for their wording because of the controversy had been before so I just got this approving this supporting approve an attorney general's office and that's the route that I went with on it. The other questions. Seeing none. We have okay I'm sorry did I see okay. Okay we have the same gentleman signed up to speak against this bill Josh with Duncan Duncan I don't think he's here it wasn't here for the last one. Let's see comes busting through the door. Is there anyone else that would like to speak against the bill. If you would like to speak against the bill come up in the Senate in the table state your name and who you're with. And you will be recognized to speak against the bill. You may. I will just ask that you will be brief and precise about what you're saying and try not to repeat yourself because we are kind of on a time crunch again today yes Sir I want to thank you Mr chair for allowing me to speak actually signed up outside I guess what what's your name my name is Julie Donald and I am here representing myself okay go ahead usually we don't have it on there but that's okay I just I want to start by saying I am a Christian from a small town. I was raised in a Baptist church it's actually representative makes trips today. So when I go visit my parents I usually get to say hello a court tenant of my religion and of many Christian denominations is free will freedom and fake. God gave us freedom to choose to have faith in him in the Bible or not. If your faith tradition taught you differently that's even more reason to have pause about passing a bill such as this. I am concerned about a few things with this bill from a religious standpoint first by teaching an element of faith as facts I believe you are minding the water of religion and faith. Students come to school to learn about factual knowledge to the extent we know it. Individuals go to church to learn faith. If a student doesn't have the opportunity but to learn and to be tested on creationism a basic tenet of faith. And but learns it as fact instead I would argue that a student in families freedoms are being infringed upon. And that their faith is being done a disservice. I was taught faith is a belief in things unseen or things that cannot be now. My own faith journey possibly my salvation. Would have been impacted if I were taught that creation is facts and that faith wasn't needed. In addition. Even among religions that believe in the Christian creation story there maybe denominations that teach it differently. Even among the Baptist tradition I was raised in. There are southern Baptist missionary Baptist free will Baptist. Primitive Baptist. Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. When would this be taught from the bat this point of view or say a Mormon point of view because those creation theories are very very different. A parent should be able to decide what religion and what creation theory their children aren't R. naught. Just as in sex education where we know certain things are factual. We still allow parents to review and decide if schools are teaching what they think is appropriate for their child's. Like what is parents should also have freedom over what their children are taught regarding your religion and the creation of the universe. And wrapping up even though I know this bill says it is permissive it won't be permissive for the students who choose. Who schools choose to teach this. And test them on the subjects. As part of a science class it seems this could not be opted out of. While it may be permissive for schools to teach it will be absolute for students to learn. I would ask that you not interfere with the student's or family's faith or freedom. Over their own religion and vote against this bill. And I appreciate you for allowing me to speak. All right single question thank you. Of the one like to speak for the bill. Against the bill. Do you like close for your bill. I would thank you colleagues I'd like to read a couple things forget that we're talking about signs of scientific laws with gravity electromagnet is amended thermodynamics that yield stable orbits of planets around the stars an electrons around the nucleus of an atom only the operating universes cry by three large and expanding dimensions of space the gravitational force constant to the lecture manic electromagnetic constant cannot differ from its value by more than one part in ten thousand trillion trillion trillion without eliminating the possibility for life on earth. There are thirty eight known cosmic characteristics like this that prove the universe was fine tuned for life by the creator of the universe the most sensitive being the space energy or the self stretching property of the universe the odds at any given plan in the universe. Possess the necessary conditions to support intelligent physical life of less than one and a number so large that it might as well be infinity. Is it possible that earth in the life we enjoy here are the results of some random an organized process like Darwin's theory of evolution so why is the only scientific theory of origin that would lead to be why is that the only scientific theory of origin that will allow our classrooms we have world renowned scientists that firmly believe that there have creation I just think the teacher should be able to discuss those theories and bring to the classroom and enhance our students with that this morning sitting at some of the images from the Hubble telescope and this is phenomenal what we see there and what we've seen and what we've learned from mount St Helens or so much has been brought out in science that think we're doing a disservice to or disservice to our students by not allowing it and I'm going to end with this thought colleagues from the preamble of the Arkansas constitution the preamble says we the people of the State of Arkansas grateful to almighty god for the privileges of choosing our own form of government for our civil and religious liberty and skews me and desiring to perpetuate its blessings and secure the same to ourselves and our posterity do ordain and establish this constitution I think that our founders of the state would would love to see this bill purports today And so with that I would ask for do pass thank you. What's will of committee. Representative Brown. Over the past motions representative brown was the discussion. Richard Godfrey person makes me next thank you Mr chair colleagues I I think my and in listening to representive X. representative Bentley's explanation my original question and just continues to hold that. If we need to teach creationism because it has scientific historical or literary value or all three then then that needs that content needs to be in the academic standards getting just a blanket permission without specifics or or and contextualise ation of the theory of creation and really it is and helpful to teachers I think if if we see the value of teaching this theory that it needs to be an academic standards and not an asset so I'm and. President make sure next thank you Mr so I have a slightly different take on this I don't see this is creating a large framework upon which we're gonna be doing testing and stuff I see this is an opportunity for teachers to answer questions or inquiries from students who have questions about this topic for example I was a I think most everybody knows here but I enjoy astronomy I actually taught college level strong army for six years and as part of my discussion on cosmology I mentioned creationism in passing because as we all know science is the pursuit of knowledge but science cannot answer all questions such as you know where we come from Lowery here what are purposes and that's when we start getting into religion philosophy and these are questions that students are actually going to have and I see this is a possibility of a a teacher to open students minds to those possibilities because when you get back to the creation of the universe is really only three possible possible causes One is an infinite regress where we go back basically forever that there's always been a universal there's always been some mechanism number two that the universe truly came from nothing by itself which I personally find hard to believe or three that there was some intelligent agent involved however you define that intelligent agents you know when I if we were having this discussion fifty or sixty years ago the prevailing theory at that time was something called the steady state theory the steady state theory postulated that the universe had always existed and that the universe would always exist and while that was a prevailing scientific theory of the time the scriptures tell us that the universe was created out of nothing that there was a time when there was no time space matter or energy and that idea in the bottle was completely. Anti science well we look today and science tells us according to the Big Bang theory that the universe was created at a time and it was created when there was no space time matter or energy we've also learned within the last decade that early in earth's history that. Both was generally it was a water planet it had less than two percent landmass. Total water planet and that the atmosphere that time was opaque so in other words the planet was void formalist and dark. Exactly how the scriptures describe the conditions at the beginning then goes on to say that let there be light laws that Mr began to clear a little bit white began to become visible the continent's road allowing for plant life plant life further cleared the atmosphere which then allowed for that Mr to become transparent the sun moon stars become visible then we go on to the the creation of the bill plant animal life so point order please. Jim. An apple order please at least give us of education on his view on on what his view is but that's not the bill we it's debate this. I don't know if it falls in debate you can no I don't think so but I mean if you if you rule that does just that and we just ask you to shorten it up a little yeah and I'm almost done okay and and and and and the point I'm trying to make is there there's been testimony today that creationism is simply a matter of faith and not a matter of science and point I'm trying to make here is that the science and the faith are actually one can be one and the same here that there is a scientific fact that can point towards creationism and I believe that exposing our children to this and and I would even argue the fact that not even not even for the discussion has been on the Christian faith but I would be okay if our students were exposed to the creationism stories of Hinduism or Islam or all the other different religions because it makes our students more well rounded and helps to answer some of the the deep seated questions I think all of us have regarding you know lie from where we came from so I definitely support this and I bring and I appreciate the representative bringing this to us today. Representative Smith thank you Mr chairman. Hello my years as a world history teacher one of my. Favorite chapters with the ones on the three great monotheistic religions of the earth and when we would discuss those in detail in that we brought a lot of great debate into interesting opinions and. Most often and every year the students would eventually ask me my opinion and always would like to be able to give them that opinion to answer without having to worry about repercussions and then allow them to come up with their own conclusions so for that reason I'm gonna support this bill. Any other debate. Seeing none. All in favor say aye. He opposed no. seven. Resolution. Thank you chairman a merry would you like to present seventeen forty nine. I'm ready to go for home right in this room for sure we have an amendment I believe on the bills that correct yeah we have a a significant moment of life for the members to see before begin discussion that's okay chairman on house bill seventeen forty nine. If there other extra copies of that amendment be okay for I know some people out is that would like to see it as well but that's okay no okay. Sure. Thank you have a minute coming to you and I'll what's lessee of motion of amendment. Representative back as emotional amendment is everybody's got it with over I don't want to order hurry up. I give you I'll give a second it's pretty long amendment will I would like college them if you wanted to reset us your amendment you by. Sure Collins I'm sure that you know that this topic has been in the news quite a bit in the some recent court rulings that came out as I was looking at those different court rulings and reached out for alliance defending freedom on this bill we came up with this amendment and the amendment addresses things in a much better way than my original wording so that's why bring forth the amendment to you The amendment release of based on an opinion that came out of a a consent case on a college professor in Ohio and the. The ruling there was definitely in favor of a teacher's rights of religious freedom so um I noticed we had read the amendment that's okay if event. Two one discuss the amendment for a vote on it chairman is that okay actually we have a motion of amendment. Okay. Ocean of do pass on the members a discussion on Amendment. Seeing none all in favor say aye. The opposed no. Okay you may of present your bill as amended please thank you chairman I appreciate it so colleagues I know that all of you as I do around here schools and visit with you teachers and I know this year has been an extremely tough year for educators with all they've gone through with COVID with masking different things and I cannot tell you how much I appreciate our educators that work every day to make things better for students as it is with some of my students and with the principles of my district they were just having some issues and concerned about students that were frequently changing their gender identity and teachers that were concerned about being sued because they weren't using the correct pronoun we have students that were changing their identity to three times a year and twenty teachers are trying to keep up with their name in a year where they were a. Stress that with COVID already which is causing some real issues and I think that we should be focused on student success in helping our teachers are respected our teachers and the issues that they're going through we even have some schools where teachers are dealing with students that gender is not male or female it's a furry and that they're a cat and so I think that things have gotten just a little bit out of hand this I want to do something to help first teachers to help or educators that we're dealing with this issue because school records are public records and when students go to file for their fast but it's important those records match up so they can get there fast but when students after they graduate come back in as the principal for their records so they can get a job recommendation whatever it's difficult if the name doesn't match. The how the student graduated with their name is now so we're trying to get some clarity for principles clarity for teachers and to remove some of the third the teachers felt like if they want using the correct pronoun so I'm gonna reach you the thing is sent to somebody because before the ruling that came out of the state Ohio state the Shanti State University imports no highly the professor. Its first amendment rights but but this is this the Shawnee state university in Portsmouth Ohio violated professors first amendment rights by ordering him to use the student's preferred pronouns Shawnee state university public school in Ohio violated Christian purposes constitution constitutional rights by punishing for refusing to use a transgender students preferred pronoun rule by the six US circuit court of appeals on Friday and a unanimous opinion written by judge and won't they par the court said Shani state punish a professor for his speech on a hotly contested issue and it does so despite the constitution perfect protections afforded by the first amendment so that's why change the member that I have been here that so a teacher will not be forced use certain pronouns for transgender student and feel that we that the now anyway it's going to by the first amount rights of their force to so we're not trying to compel the five at a teacher speech the teacher the first amendment right is to respectfully acknowledge the students in their classroom so that's pretty much it and that shall I don't have to take questions from colleagues. President Deffenbaugh. Thank you Mr chair. That. The House understand that. That we have that the student has to be called by their by burst it could name is that right. I have to change that if you read the management team that also for read now I will read that I read the amendment to you okay an employee of a public school shall not be required to use a pronoun title or other word to identify public school student as a male or female that is inconsistent with the public school students biological sex an employee of a public school who faces adverse action as a result of the violation of subsection a of this section may bring a claim and shall be eligible for remedies afforded under the of sixteen dash one twenty three dash one of five of the Arkansas Civil Rights Act. So an employee of a state sponsored institution of higher education shall not be required to use a pronoun title or other which identifies student of the state supported institution of higher education as male or female is inconsistent with the state supported institution of higher education students biological sex an employee of a state sponsored institution of higher education who faces adverse action as a result of the violation of subsection a of this section may proclaim and ship eligible for remedies afforded under the sixteen dash one twenty three dash one oh five this lines up with the recent of hearing that that was done in Ohio so I brought that with us from the seventh circuit court there. Okay everyone can against. All up you're recognized for follow. As I mean I still don't understand exactly what you're aiming at I'm sorry I I just I don't know I mean I I'm I read that and I understand what you're saying if it means a teacher I'm I'm supposed to call them by their it doesn't matter what I call or does matter what I don't mean that at yeah we have registration forms of students feel at the beginning the year so you will you will want to address that student as they are on the registration form as this as a sign up in the air and and forty some teachers are but have been dealing with students that want to change their name and their gender identity three times in a year and expect this teacher to address some of certain specific pronoun based on the gender identity they have for that day so we're trying to clear up some confusion for teachers that they will dress the student based on the name that was on the registration form when I came to school that year okay thank you. Any other questions from committee representative got free. Thank you Mr chair just clarify it because in the original bill it had the birth certificate as the kind of the identifier of the students biological sex the amendment just said just says you know we can't use pronounce titles or other words to identify as student that it in a way that's inconsistent with the public school students biological sex how are we determining the student's biological sex and the amended version of the bill by the student's registration form us with the is Philip each year Quinn department education why didn't you include that in the bill polit sorry I'd be happy to do that in the Senate but is the registration form so We will clarify that. That it is the registration form that the student bills at each year when they go to school one more follow Mister chair you're recognized and so if a student is trans gender and registers. As transgender then. I guess I'm just a. If the changes has happened before registration that the transition that the gender identity a stranger for registration then how does a student how does the teacher know has the employee no the students biological sex. And this delete this amendment is strictly bases on the pronouns are to things the students are requiring. Teachers to use that pronoun when they come into the room so trying to clarify this the name that they use in the registration form that they start at the school year with. I'm just basing it on what I've dealt with my different educators that have been in my district that invalid frustrated with this issue so trying to clarify for them that we use the name on the registration form that the student feels at the beginning here. Representative make sure recognized. Thank you for represent Mr represent it isn't the the the fundamental purpose of this bill is to protect our teachers currently in Arkansas law gender identity as protected as billing so if a teacher inadvertently called the student by a gender identity that they don't align with the teacher or actually fell student could face disciplinary actions and this is to try to protect our teachers against that type sign is that correct exactly right is trying to protect their teachers the whole purpose for the bill thank you. Representative love. Thank you Mr Arkansas I'm trying to understand this if the I guess on this the identifying documents isn't it because I'm not I'm not familiar with it but on this a defined document. If. The student. Puts the name and I guess the purpose for upon and I'm not sure how this works. The in the teacher will refer to the student by what is that the identifying documents is that correct or incorrect the name what is that what everyone to go by the name that's on the registration form that the student feels that we're trying to you know as teachers have been fearful of being sued if they don't use the correct pronoun or something the student want them to use that day in the classroom so we're trying to make things consistent with what they feel that the beginning here on the registration form okay sign to help teachers that is what we're trying to do. Okay I'll I'll get that but I guess. If the name or if the the name. Is in line with the pronoun then I guess I'm trying to figure out. What this bill is going to do. Trying to protect them from inadvertently saying the complaint and correct pronoun the student didn't wish to be called by or something so it's just really trying to help the teachers to protect our teachers and I'm trying to bring some consistency because I don't think we need we would think it's good for education good for students to change their name and their gender identity three times in a year which which is happening now in Arkansas and schools in Arkansas. So we're trying to bring some consistency for teachers that can say this is the child's name that's what they'll be addressed by for the school year. Follow Mr record so is is is is there is there a a line in which on this form that you're referring to is there a line in which there's a pronoun. Nothing what we would bring Secretary key about the registration form line so okay yes because I guess that's what I I need the clarification on because the and I guess it wouldn't really be argument. Can I get someone from the Department come clarifies. Johnny keep part of education to my knowledge represented preferred pronouns is not an entry on the registration. Documentation its name Other identifying typical identifying information sex age birth date that sort of thing. Pronouns would not be part of it. Okay so then. I guess a follow up Mr I give you one more okay so so I guess then the and the argument is this is that was actually included on the document then there would what with the even be a question or would they even be a need for the this bill. Well it's not included on the document so could we included on that I'm not sure. We're not where we don't have any intention to put preferred pronouns as an entry on on the documents. Okay so districts may if they want to that maybe some information the district would want to to see it but I that's not something the state would. Required. Women in the state in the state would not I couldn't state would not require districts but districts if they chose to ask for that information that could. Representative brown is your question for the department. No okay I'm let represent love with with another question that we can excuse the Department and and you can question I guess I guess use the key is is. What is it the then we would not want to do that we I mean me would not required to do that I mean because I guess this will fix is arguing if if we would just say Hey this is one piece of information that the this school should collect I mean what they're not there's a lot of information we're required to collect and that information is often dictated by federal law the the the sex of of a student is something we collect because that information a lot of information has to be a disaggregated by by race by back by grade by sex so but but that is not in the that is pronouns are not a Unpack anything that we would just aggregate data by so that's not something we would seek to put on registration forms. The representative brown you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair representative Bentley on this bill I think the way I'm understanding it a teacher would not. B.. In trouble or have been considered to have done something wrong if the a call a student by the name that's on the registration form and if they indicate that they are male or female then using the corresponding pore now however. Yes a teacher. If a student is changing their name and their gender identity several times a year. If there was a teacher who who wanted to try to keep up with all that. With date. Would they be allowed I mean they would still be allowed to try to you know James speak address the student the way they want to be addressed from day to day but if they slipped up and called them by the name that was on there registration form and said she when that student wanted to be referred to as he or they are yet or or or whatever I know that there's quite a few terms out there these days set them. I'm not familiar with so. It's not requirements just allow them to what they normally do and now they want to installation prevents skews me follow up prevents them from being liable or legally insane trouble are violating that child's. But I know personal rights correct thank you. Representative back. Thank you Mr so. I was kind of weird for the department but maybe we can. Representative Bentley can answer this so if the department is in fact on the registration form they're collecting that won the categories of sex that would that not dictate then the pronouns that you referred to that teacher would fertile by the pronouns associated with the sex that they indicated on the registration form. Yes. Thank you. Representive fight. Thank you Mr. Thank you Mr chair. I don't know this to be for you are for the department may be as secretary he could not is head up or down in the state of Arkansas has any teacher ever been sued for using the wrong pronoun with the student not at this point that I'm aware of I know that my I'm afraid of it numerous teaches share concerns with me in my district says what about this fourth thank you. Representative got free. Thank you Mr chairman a circle back to the idea about protecting teachers. Because I've heard arguments that we're protecting teachers who are misgendering students inadvertently which you know to me. It is as an honest mistake that especially as we learn more about transgender students were learning more about you know the importance of calling us to by their name by their pronouns and you know that is new to some teachers that's it a new experience a new interaction with the student and and ended Virton Mr during a student to me is not what this bill is about even though we talk about that a few times to me this is the intentional misgendering of a student which you represent only referred to and you know the need to protect the the speech of the professor that you talk about this is that this is for teachers to know a transgender student. Identifies with their agenda professors per now owns that correspond with their gender but intentionally. Chooses to miss agenda the student this would protect those teachers is that correct yes it would. Because that's a federal law has done it to court cases already but I would suggest to that most teachers just wanted to call the student by their name that they register to the beginning the school year so they can have some consistency with their school records are public records and the school year throughout the year follow up recognized it would be helpful to know maybe that and obviously missing privacy concerns maybe you can't share my we can both offline about which teachers in which school this is actually happening in because to me when you say most teachers were I think most teachers are saying is they want to treat their students with dignity and respect and call them by their preferred name and pronouns to have a positive relationship with their students so I'd like to know which schools this is actually happening right where students are. Changing their gender identity three times and it was impossible to me representative McKenzie. Thank you Mr chairman I apologize this may well been answered I got distracted here moment go with an answering and attacks from somebody. The the registration card if I understand correctly so if us band student seventh grade fills out their sex as one thing the next year they come and that mail for instance then the next year they come back to the band director and they've now completed that registration card as female. Is is that what I'm understanding apologize or is that my understanding is dictating. What the pronoun. That the band director in this scenario must change one year it's one thing and the next year to another based on the registration card and my misunderstanding that. I think we're trying to allow the band director continues the student's name throughout the whole year and to bring some consistent and to encourage students to understand that their school records are public records and they would be help for them to keep that same name because so when they filed for their fasta or number of different things that their name is consistent as and colleges at this point causing great concern I have sold for the students even get there faster because they have a different name on their public records and school and the person to get when they filed for their passport so I'm trying to keep encourage students and schools to keep a consistent name so when I go to file for the festival but the bill to get their faith that makes sense to you representative mackenzie this trip is a public record so we're trying to keep it consistent and allow teachers to use that name that was used on the registration form the student bill that at the beginning the school year with the parents hello recognized yes thank you I'm sure I was unclear I was wanting to know about the pronouns biological sex I I assume that's what they're feeling and its registration each year so with one year it's one thing in the next year they fill out another card I still think they fill out every year is that correct the next year it's change that's why I'm asking this band director states had the student seventh grade and eighth grade. Is I'm asking about the pronoun what's going to dictate it sounds like that it's the what they fill out on the card each year is that correct. We're just saying this whole this username because students are you know some are insisting on certain pronouns and I pronounce not written in the registration forms their name and their and their agenda on the registration form so we're trying to get consistency for teachers that they inadvertently use a different pronoun is not gonna get in trouble which has been yeah I'm trying not to have to compel a teacher to do any you know we're trying to compel speech were trying to allow teachers to speak to use the first amendment rights and speak as has been these two court cases that have come through have held a teacher's first amendment rights to speech so why not try to compel a teacher's speech we're just going to try to conserve compel some consistency to use the name that was used on the registration form. Representative Vaught. Thank you Mr chair so I had somebody reach out to me and ask their child is in the special education and of this child likes to be called Timothy right now because it's her favorite character in a movie so this bill would disallow that to happen not at all okay this bill specifically so the teacher can't be sued for using the wrong pronoun for students the whole basis is trying to set teacher cannot be sued for use the wrong pronoun for students so now that's their favorite name this is like to be called a special letter they have nickname that they use I know a lot of registration forms it was named the student goes by my grandson's name is Richard Anthony Mobley and his he would not know Richard at all his name is Tony so that's the name that he's gone by thank you. Thank you Mr representative Bentley this does this legislation. Do you agree this last legislation appears to be pointed specifically toward a group of students that may be. Is appointed to a group students specifically no Sir it's happened to protect teachers that have come to me with concerns and I want to be sued for and rightly use the wrong pronoun to student I've had for years teachers concerned about this on this two losses came out I was trying to reform that they're not going to get sued for using the wrong pronoun if they do so what representative law just mentioned to you about a situation where someone wants to use a different name C. nine C. use some specific name there and so Timothy yes we get some this is not in our which procedures is not a very hard thing for a teacher to do it could be a pronoun versus Timothy versus Susie or Lavery jail so there's no so it appears that is just pointed toward one thing. A transgender youth. It's not pointed towards anybody trying to help our teachers that can do with their concerns that's what it's about so the concerns the right and principles that were very concerned about students not being able to get there fast for and Spuy it's a public record is a school record I'm trying to help students be successful on whether teachers. I have a you know it's a very tough thing to be an educator sure you're aware of that I know that you just with the teacher so when they have a student that's changed their name of their gender identity three times a year it's costs and hassles as a very you know Annette unnecessary stress on a teacher that that's my concern is with no one no one not one teacher not everyone is coming to me with this problem not everyone is that a question represent Murdock. Representative love. Thank you representative Bentley you mentioned the the the shiny case in and you also in your in your testimony stated several times about this is something to protect to protect teachers from inadvertently using. But in that case. What is the professor inadvertently using the pronoun or was he inverted only using the pronoun he wishes in the student's last name and the student did not appreciate that and this teacher independent pharmacy would not use the specific pronoun that the teachers wanted to use but he was using the student's last name to identify the student okay but what the inadvertently doing it on one C.. He was trying to be consistent with his beliefs and use the student's last name and I don't think a college student should be you know that's what this lawsuit was about we should have to compel teachers and force them to use a certain name or pronoun when I just want to use the student's last name which should be about educating students and give them a good education. It's all questions from committee. We have five signed up to speak against the bill one signed up to speak I'm sorry represented fight you're recognized motion to limit debate I hear your motion two medic family speakers we have signed up five. Three minutes Speaker that's proper motion is not debatable all those in favor the motion say aye opposed nay. Based in limited to three minutes per person assume that includes questions. Yes Sir that includes questions so we will now go to comments from the audience first one signed up to speak against is Kourtney Frierson. Frierson if you will. Recognize yourself identify yourself for the record please. Is this on. Hi Cordy fire St I'm a mental health therapist and I'm here representing common humanity. I thank you picture in your imagination. An adolescent or teen that you care deeply about. See that young person full of life full of potential and also full of pain and sadness. They come to you their trusted adult the grandparent or uncle. Their aunt and they open up about their loneliness and depression they feel like no one understands them and they are alone even around friends. They share a journal entry with you in here how desperate they are to stop the pain. They share secret they've thought about ways to die. They want the pain to end. Your heart breaks and you would do anything to take away their pain. You take another pediatrician the doctor has some hopeful news if there's one thing you can do this treatment has the potential to reduce depression to reduce suicidal thoughts and it could reduce suicidal behaviors this thing is free does not require health insurance or weekly therapy appointments but one thing. Is simply using the correct pronouns and names and one context but those are different than what you've called them their whole life. Would you do it for the team you love. The largest research study today about suicidality among trans youth found that simply using a teen's authentic name and pronouns and at least one context reduces depression symptoms reduces suicidal thoughts by one third and reduces to a suicidal behavior by at least fifty six percent. Using a person's name and title as a matter of basic courtesy and respect. Using a transgender person's authentic name and pronouns is not only respect its life saving and life affirming. Please show the teams of Arkansas that you respect them. Please vote no on house bill one seven four nine. I'm happy to take questions. Any questions. Seeing none thank you for your testimony UP next will be Delores Wilke. To speak against. Thank you Mr chair. Today I am here to ask you to vote no to HB seventeen forty nine is written. Even the amended bill that we just received. My name is Delores welcome a native our cans in a member of the LGBTQ plus community here and a corporate former corporate trainer in my professional career. This bill is harmful because of its insensitive and harmful nature to the small and very valuable trans youth community and also to the teachers that will have to enforce it. Using birth certificate names versus chosen preferred names will encourage bullying harassment in the classroom it will create a hostile environment. shut down their openness to interact but not be given the consideration and respect they deserve that we all deserve. Don't Carnegie once said. A person's name is to that person the sweetest the most important sound in any language using the correct name for a person even a young person shows them respect and value. It will encourage openness diversity and show others that it's OK to accept them as a valuable part of the class. It will bring down walls of discrimination where there is no need for them. As for teachers I have seen them at the end of the day frazzled in two years some at their breaking points with struggling with virtual and in person learning just trying to maintain academic goals. This is an exceptional. Insensitive ask your requesting them to create a discriminative and disruptive environment in their classrooms let's face it. School was rough enough for us all finding ourselves learning not only academic skills but also social skills as we started our lives. Please as guardians of all Arkansas state children's. Which includes trans children vote no to H. B. seventeen forty nine and let's encourage a more sensitive diverse and equitable playing field. I would reading this bill. This amendment. I jotted some quick notes. I do identify is date them and there's. I am greatly disappointed that this bill amendment only includes male or female. There are other spectrums and we need to respect those spectrums. As a matter of fact when I walked into the capitol today. I was called Sir. And that is why I am here today testifying and asking you to please be guardians of all our children and vote no to this bill thank you thank you for your testimony any questions. Seeing none we will then go to. Richelle Britain through shall Britain. Gold in the table please. It identify yourself for the record and you have three minutes for your testimony. Yes my name. Yes my name is Richelle Britain my pronouns or she her. But that that I am transgender. I just graduated from ball one last year just passed the bar exam and this is a filed paperwork with the Supreme Court in my in my bag right now I I will officially be an attorney the next the Attorney possibly Arkansas's first openly transgender attorney. I originally came here to hold the space for Courtney Beck because she was running late she the I'm glad she got here and and read her statement in the record she I fully support her and the other and and the other person to spoke before me I would just like to add I agree totally with representive Murdock and representive love this bill targets trans kids. It is. Mmhm it is aimed at. Protecting. Intentional misgendering of kids of our kids. I also add that it violates title nine as was as was interpreted by the by the administration just yesterday. That the. Of. Don't for don't don't forget don't forget what happened at Central High if you are a high. If you want to enact a law like this even is amended that violate that that goes against the law from DC the law from the sea will almost always when thank you. No questions we will go to Stacie o'brien. Stacie o'brien here. No there are some in the holding room give just a moment for Stacie o'brien. No Sir all right next on the list and this was just for informational purposes not speak for or against his cord Rapert. Court Rapert would come to the table. Mr river was here because he signed in. No. Right to anyone else in the audience who would like to speak against the bill. For the bill. Representative Bentley you're recognized close your bill. Colleagues I appreciate what this brit bill come for today I think this is a timely for us to protect our educators I think it's we need to assure that our students to get a great education we also need to assure that our educators are not that they're gonna be sued for using the wrong pronoun we to focus on our keys in on their names and I am all about student success M. moving needs teachers that are able to make that happen for gonna have this success so with that I would appreciate a good vote thank you. Representative Bentley is close for her bill was will of committee the motion representative brown you're recognized for motion. Do pass a motion to pass representative brown. As amended. As proper motion a discussion on the motion representative Murdock. Thank you I think representative bill the that this bill is though I wanna agree with the intent maybe that we have here but it's is poorly written to me and thought that it had been thought through enough because it raises more questions than answers and I I can't support it as it is because it again appears to be a target it and not a universal bill they really would do what I would like to think we could do possibly with something like this. So I'll be voting no. Representative of. Thank you Mr if we if. Let me let me go back and. And say if if we were really if our aim was to really kind of protect teaches. Then we will focus on things like collective bargaining rights increase pay. better health benefits for teachers those are things that protect teachers. If we want to ensure student success then. The paramount piece of students successes is there respect. In I don't see this bill folks in on respecting the student to the utmost. The case that was reference was the there was a case of intentionality. And if we're going to say we want to protect the unintentional ality of someone doing something then that was one thing but that wasn't the case. In so. This this may this bill may protect. The the the speech of of a teacher but. In this instance I'm not sure if that that is what we would like to do because. In that respect for that teacher is the and or their protection and the teacher is the demise of a student's education. Because of the fact that we would be not respecting what they would do they would live in so with that being said I what I was saying I would encourage people to to vote no because I will tell you as a as a person and it's a minority. I mean we could we could turn that that focus to comment a minority something that they would not like to be called in the end what road we going down this is a very slippery slope that were on and I think that it's only right that we respect what that person would like to be called in if that pronoun is what they want to be referred to then I think that's what we should do because that's the respectful thing to do. Thank you. You know discussion from committee president got free. Thank you Mr chair I'll be brief I agree wholeheartedly with represent love in the importance of authentic relationship building between students and teachers I taught fifth grade and sixth grade. I had students sorry. I had students tell meetings that it never told anyone before. It's such an important and positive a pivotal time in kids lives and the relationship between a student teacher. Can be so impactful and so affirming. Not only educational but to that student is as an individual. And for this bill to embolden teachers who are intentionally misgendering students who are intentionally severing the relationship at a trusting affirming. Support a relationship between a student teacher which is vital and critical to student achievement. I feel very sad as a former educator that that's what we want to promote on the sorry. No discussion from the Committee. Seeing none of a motion to pass by representative brown all those in favor of the motion R. as amended all those in favor the motion say aye. Pose nee. Is have it graduation question bill. I have one hand I have two hands I have three we have. Shelve your committee roll call please. The makes I representative love No representative Murdock. Representative Deffenbaugh S. yes representative Lowery. Representative Lowery. Representative Womack yes yes representative Bragg yes representative to fight. No representative back. Yes representative speaks. Yes representative brown. Yes representative Vaught. No. Representative Maddox. No representative hollow well as yes representative Johnson. Representative Johnson. Representative McKenzie. Yes representative Godfrey No representative Smith. Representative Smith. Represent representative eleven. Yes yes. Cozart. Bills past. Thank you. All right the this time uh Richard Penzo. It's coming in. We're going to try to hurry this up as much as possible we do get him at the table to see kind of what his intentions are with this bill for information or for to run it as a bill. Rosa Penzo you may take the under the table. If you have people where you ways they can just find a chair somewhere back there please or down the side I really want to do that I'd like to have Connor Henderson joined the table are we are we running for information are we running for to pass I need to know that from me right now I believe we to try to end a run to pass today chairman your Roadrunner passes bill yes Sir. All right to a representative so you are recognized to present your bill and if you want to go and have him of stages name and who is with that would be great. My name is Connor Henson I'm currently a freshman at the university of Arkansas but today I am here with the local members of the local robotics community in Springdale Arkansas to present this legislation for you. You are recognized to present okay just just a brief overview of what this is and and what we're trying to accomplish some of these students are having to choose if they want to graduate with honors there's a requirement to have so many semesters of foreign language a lot of murder everybody that's here it's a very impressive group of kids so but they want to focus on programming computer science and they're having to choose one of my actually told me they had to drop out of a a programming class to enroll in French in order to graduate with honors so that's problematic to many we're trying to encourage children to get into robotics computer programming computer sciences so they approach me with running some legislation to try to make it to where they could still pursue computer programming courses and graduate with honors and if you'll see these one we have a chance to hear from them they're they're pretty impressive group of kids anyway all it to a lead Connor takeover and kind of tell you about the bill. So our bill specifically requires that states give every student the option to choose computer science classes as their foreign language credit when they're trying to figure out what they would need to graduate with honors and figure out the requirements going into the their upcoming classes because Arkansas runs on a choice based school system it makes it enables this bill to about almost every student across Arkansas because that in the top districts almost all of them require at least two credits a foreign language to graduate with the different tiers of honors for their districts so what we're doing is we are giving every student the opportunity to pursue that the help centers to higher education that hosts and pursue higher amounts of scholarships that helps them. You know prepare themselves for more success in future if it's okay with the chairman I'd like to invite up the individuals I brought to talk as well. Produce. Yes Sir are you all ready for questions. Per your. I guess we can go ahead and move on to questions okay he referred questions a do you have any other that are going to speak later I guess you will probably okay we'll last of which shall go for questions that you if this is this is something we've been working on outsides and you receive a going it out so we're trying to figure this bill out but anyway of real questions the questions representative of Godfrey. Thank you Mr chair and thank you so much for coming I represent Springdale as well so I know how impressive the robotics team is that thank you so much for your work on this bill and I do wonder if you have taught to Springdale school board about this particular issue because I know there's not a state level requirement for foreign language to graduate from high school it it is kind of district by district and and it Springdale who has the honors for language requirement and not this state so I'm wondering if you had any conversations with Springdale and with that the superintendent with the school board and if not if I can help and set up a meeting. I personally have not talked about it but I know it's not just Springdale I did research into Bentonville little rock north little rock Russellville Rogers Fayetteville all over the state it's a requirement to have those two foreign language classes because that's kind of a universal thing across the country is most places required to units of foreign language so we're actually kind of an uncommon states not require that and I don't want to push for that requirement at all I'm just saying for those honors classes and when applying to higher institutions when that requirement exist we're helping that enable the student or students. I have a I have had some brief conversations of and so with with the department of education members of the school board and assistant superintendent but you know there's there's everybody's got a different way of how they'd like to see it done so there have been some preliminary conversations and if if more need to be had been more will be had. Richmond speaks your question. Your microphone. No. Thank you Mr chair I would appreciate it if the Senate will a secretary secretary key we come to the. Thank god we have Secretary key come to the table or someone from the department. Dr pepper is prepared to speak okay okay ninety five. Thank you ninety five for department of education did you do you have a specific question yes I do When they're trying to change that and to be in a foreign language has this ever been done before. So the and the computer science requirement and as a graduation credit that is new and so currently there are no computer science courses that count for a foreign language credit there are and school districts are required to offer and she credits of and the same foreign language so that is a requirement for schools with the a recent computer science legislation students have a lot of flexibility and how that computer science credit is County it can count as a math or science credit but it also can count as an elective credit and if they are taking and and several courses and and several elective credits then they have a lot of flexibility with that with the way it's currently structured. Follow up you're recognized with all of these for less it's five classes here will this have will the schools have to start teaching all of this. So so the way that the and legislative or the legislation is worded It will require that districts offer a computer science that would count as a foreign language and by specifically outlining these courses it doesn't allow any flexibility to even look to see how do these courses line up with the foreign language standards so currently and all of that foreign language courses that a student might choose are aligned with state what approved standards so this is really creating a requirement a state policy a state requirement for something that isn't required by the state for every student I I do want to say that there's so many things that and he and representative Penzo mentioned that that I agree with and I love the fact that they are very eight interested in the computer science field I love the fact that they are really pushing for those highest levels of diplomas an honors in their school district this is really something that that needs to be addressed at the local level because it's the local districts that are making the decisions about what is required for their honors. One more question one more follow up okay thank you so in other words we're gonna just mandatory that schools do pass this legislation would mandate it instead of leaving it up to the district site thank you thank you Mr. I have so quickly to follow in this does not do this bill so just hang tight anybody that is here for shall grace eighteen fifty four we got a pass over that to Tuesday it will be heard at ten o'clock I'm sorry Thursday to Thursday at ten o'clock or right at around that time because of the the pro be proud of. Tour that will be taking will be a little late getting back in here so if you're here to hear that bill or to speak for or against that bill it will be Tuesday morning around ten AM thirty Thursday morning I'm sorry I'm still. Still off today but That would be it so purposes pictures to I'm not sure you need to stay but I have represent fight next. Okay represent Murdock so my question doctor five along those lines that my concern becomes that. It should be local for the reason I guess you've articulated and to the sponsor in the the young man this articulating it it appears to fit certain places and they are suited for it and it fits that's and they so if we make this permissive versus mandatory then I think we would avoid some of the problems it just because. Would you agree that it will take about five a would that. help us to avoid some of the problems that you mention if it's permissive language versus mandatory. And it said the permissive language would would help with that with some of the concerns that are there there still could be some considerations about alignment and in terms of if we're treating it as a foreign language and and how does that align with and academic standards but those are some things that would have to be looked at but again yes this this leaves no no discretion for the local school district so so so represented Penzo at. So my question as the sponsor would be to you would you consider you know you hear what we're hearing would you consider making that adjustment so that he can still go on in areas where they're ready for they can do with their you don't have that ability but and and work with the department of educational on the issues that yes thank you. Representative Godfrey. Short Dr pepper I was wondering if you could just give a little bit of information about that kind of curriculum mismatch between what is spelled out in the foreign language standards and then what what it quite fit or what wouldn't be covered in some of these computer science classes that are spelled out why the why it's not really a good substitution or inclusion set is so the issue yes really goes back to the fact that we're wanting to substitute it for a foreign language credit and and within the world languages the standards you're looking at the and that the things that go with around the communication with and and the language itself so it there are there are big differences between and the world languages and and the academic standards and what would be included within computer science and and the basses and and of all of the different computer science and computing types of courses that the real issue here is what a local district is requiring so when a local district is requiring foreign language for an advanced diploma or an honors deployment the the local district release the one that could be flexible and what they're allowing for that and with and the expansion of the computer science and computing courses there a lot of opportunities for them to instead of requiring that the two years of foreign language to just allow for the expansion over into courses light and advanced computer sciences and and and other courses as well and I would hope to see in and at the in honors diplomas we start seeing more and more opportunities for and those advance CTE courses that count for what a credit to be included as well so the issue is not so much a trying to match up with the foreign language but that to expand those opportunities for students at the local level. All right any other questions. Representative brown. Well my my question is the student whose name I did not write down and I forgot anyway this is very interesting to me that we would be substituting this for foreign language because indeed when you're coding things. Programming you are using a certain you're using. I mean if you look at language as symbols. You are using symbols and they have to have a certain syntax they have to appear in the right order or your your webpage just doesn't show the way you want it to it just doesn't work so so to me I can see that as as language I don't know that would help you build a of an electric car but I mean if you're talking about coding things I see that is language yes ma'am I entirely agree and with the people I brought behind me many of them actually know how to program I don't personally but it they could come up and start explaining it to you and probably talk to you in the Java script or C. plus plus or whatever they have to write it would make a single look a sense to myself I bet you'll figure it out. I will remind Committee we leave at twelve fifteen we have five minutes to finish I'm I'm finished thank you. Of representative Becca something real short I think. Yes in this the question is is it seems like it and made a misunderstanding but it it has to the local school district wanted to remove that requirement right now still law offered honors they could do that that's correct. That is correct take this legislation and implement it locally if they chose to write so my question would be do may be to a representative Penzo I would like to go a step further than representative Murdock sing and and so that that we bring something back that would encourage the locals to look at some of these other more advanced thing that's happened because also have program to robotics and I also understand the language and that is a different language so I would I would be a step further than just saying that they can't do making permissive I think we should be encouraging these local school districts to to allow this to happen thank you thank you for the comment and if we could you know we there was mention of good vote today I would I would like to just allow the last five minutes here for a few the other students to come up and tell you a little bit about themselves and what will bring this back amended of this bill that. You do not one of the. No no you're gonna pull it down well if it if I can allow the a little a little mall come up Saturday and a mark there if you wanna move out and they can say their name and and what the support we need to do it and when the five minute time because we close at twelve fifteen that's all rule because people have to use your bill will squared up only waste anymore the contact them thank you. Somebody just jumped it just tell me who your name is and and you're with and say what you would like to say give everybody about a minute please. my name is Jonathan games I am a self taught programmer on team eighty three seventy three divorce I'm a junior at don Tyson school of innovation. Would you like saving about this bill. So in conjunction with all the calls classes I've been taking care and the foreign language requirements I have not been able to take a formal computer science class as of yet. All right next. My name's Chloe lane and I and one of the I am the team leader of eight two seven three to the force and I find that for this legislation it would benefit lots of programmers and other people that love coding because most of the time with foreign language it's difficult for us to it's difficult for us to have foreign language like French and Spanish when in the future going to be doing programming and counseling and stuff like that as our job. All right next my name's Natalie Morris. I'm a freshman at the university of Arkansas setting biomedical engineering and I struggle to balance computer science classes in high school along with taking Spanish but if I'm being honest with you I don't know much Spanish but I can tell you everything about cutting I can programming python Java C. plus plus and several more but I can't talk in Spanish which is that because I want to learn but I have been able to also with going into the college I wanted to I had to have two foreign languages are to foreign language credits to get scholarships and even applied to the university of Arkansas. All right next. my name is. And the coach of their robotics team I am eighteen years old I'm a freshman the universe of Arkansas and I actually rode own operate and and I'm the founder of my own business called the spring or like Senator our mission is to get. our mission is. It that Mike again. What scramble our mission is to teach students to do robotics and I was actually student the representative Penzo talked about who I had to drop a coding class in order to take French I can't speak a lick of French I even went to France couldn't speak anything but I can tell you code all day long I can teach the students code all day long and I think that it's very beneficial and if so like life changing for the students to be able to have the opportunity to graduate with honors and to learn this and to be able to explore the field and wonder if is this actually my career pathway is this what I want to do with my life currently they don't really have the option to do that. Thank you for your testimony and represent Penzo what I take it we're gonna pull this bill back and you're going to work with the Department. Yes thank you committee for the your time that I will be working on Amendment bring this back I just they drove down today and that's one of their chance to speak thank let let it speak we're glad you came and you know go back and enjoy school. All right at this time we are adjourned.