Education Committee- House

Recognized for eighteen thirty one first. Morning Mr chairman colleagues as I tell you it's a great day to be American I love to say that and I'm representive Mark Perry from district eighty two and pending the in a moment I'll bring one of my subject matter experts up here but first I would be remiss if I didn't thank the chairman for his leadership and his mentorship and his patients with me navigating a rookie through this process with the these two bills so forever grateful for his leadership in support but it's an honor for me to present HB eighteen thirty one today what makes it even more special is being able present this bill is a member of the Arkansas legislature and former military man. I was honored when our Attorney General asked me to sponsor this bill for the night ninety third General Assembly. Ladies in German there's a serious decline levels of patriotism among our youth. Many feel that compared to older generations today's you've seen saying we don't have the same patriotic sentiments as our parents or their grandparents I quite honestly I think that our children take their freedom for granted. I think they take their education for granted their ability to be able to go to class football practice band with the cafeteria or lunch is taken for granted. Colleagues the playing of our national anthem in reciting of our pledge allegiance is one way students can express their patriotism. Patriotism is important is celebrating our national anthem and pledge allegiance to our flag is something everyone should do just as we do. As we recite the pledge of allegiance in this legislature before correct conducting our state's business. I think many just don't see it is important as it really is. Even we as adults as Americans do not think about heritage our freedom our flag or the price committee paid for the same. Children today do not even understand what allegiance is much less what their pledge when they recite the pledge. Any children do not know the words to our national anthem. I can remember the days when Mamas and Daddies would be so proud of their kids when they learn to sing the national anthem and they drag out that old camcorder to record the the kids singing the national anthem on a VHS cassette tape. Children do not understand nor they're being taught the principles that made our country free. They've never heard the words life liberty or the pursuit of happiness. They have not been taught the basic principles behind our flag that certain human aspirations are worthy of giving lives in pursuit of their defense. Throughout history Our symbols were needed to represent these human aspirations and these outward symbols are worthy of the same respect do those ideals for which they stand. We show that respect by honoring our national anthem and by pledge our allegiance to this great country. Want to take you for a moment. The time in North Korea as an illustration of what our flag means the millions who have fought suffered and died for this great country all throughout history and why is so very important that our children become educated to honor our country. Colonel Paul bunker. He had our American flag lowered and burned at Corregidor before the Japanese could reaching capture it before having it destroyed he cut a very small piece from that flag. Any tucked it into short. Walker was in and out of committee prisoner of war camps we felt as patriotism put to the test as principals challenge you to take out that little piece of flag and then that ragged piece of cloth he'd see all the ideals in which he believed. He had an outward symbol of patriotism to supporting. Walker died in the Philippine prisoner of war camp yet he remained inspired until the very end by that very small piece of flag. During my four combat deployments in the year just south of the demilitarized zone in Korea. I also carried my simple faith in a country that I chose to support and defend and put my trust in for forty five years. The small worn soiled flags were kept in my uniform or attached to the shoulder my uniform every day. And just as colonel bunker when I felt my patriotism when I felt it being put to the test of the my principles were being challenged. I had an outward symbol of faith in the country that I pledge my allegiance to. Now do you see. What we need to understand in our minds as well what we feel in our hearts. So what is this education and understanding begin I submit to you ladies and gentleman this former to the formative years of our children is where that education begins in our schools. And I believe it's our responsibility as leaders and lawmakers to ensure the education as mandated in our schools. Excuse me. I think I played my case enough at this point in our I hopefully you'll see why this bill is so important to the future of our country but for close on sure one very important last story. It's a story of our Kansans. And I have a tendency to get a little emotional so if you'll bear with me. It's a story about soldiers. The Arkansas National Guard. April twenty four two thousand four. Right to may zero five hundred camp Taji Iraq. Indirect fire from enemy mortar rounds landed for the members of the Arkansas National Guards thirty nineteen which for gatehouse. And where the thirty ninth infantry brigade medical company was set up for temporary operations. There were no injuries and that initial Braj. But after waiting parts me forty five to fifty minutes inside the bonkers and gaining accountability of all of our soldiers each of the unit commanders begin making the decision it was all clear the soldiers started leaving the bunkers. The company commander was captain both Felder from Little Rock. And Service NCOs and officers were gathered at the mouth of the bunker discussing today's a band in planning what they're gonna do the rest of the day. About fifteen minutes after that first Raj. Another round. The fifty seven millimeter rockets. Land in that same area. One round landed right in the middle of the group mortally wounded captain Felder chief warrant officer four patch cords are also of Little Rock. Staff sergeant Stacey Brandon of Hazen. Staff sergeant B. J. Orton of Carlisle. Six of the members of the Arkansas company were seriously wounded. Captain Anthony Smith. Sergeant first class items a month. Staff sergeant Larry Starr staff sergeant Wayne Arlan specials James Mylan specialist James Carter. Charlie med was set up about thirty to forty yards away. The medics and doctors immediately left their bunker respond to disregard the threat of additional rockets. That captain failed on the table trying to save him when he passed away. G. chords Mar survive long enough to be evacuated via helicopter but he died before making it to the core support hospital in Baghdad. There is no doubt if it weren't for the bravery and quick response of those medics and doctors from the lone oak unit the several more lives would have been lost. Including captain Anthony Smith. Who is originally clear declared dead that day. This medics were. As medics Reserve enclosed body bags captain Smith. What clicked the dog to X. from the dead. Someone happen to notice blood bubble. From the corner of Anthony Smith now. Captain Smith survived. He's right that rocket propelled grenade they his unit but he returned home from Iraq with his right arm amputated below the elbow brain damage have a design site is hip bone shattered with severe muscle damage. Last I heard you were underwent more than thirty surgeries and thrives today is an inspirational Speaker in the disable athlete. Ladies and gentleman. Let us never forget the thousands. Moore who paid the ultimate ultimate sacrifice during our many conflicts cannot be with us however we can honor them. But teaching our children the price the committee played paid by mandating that our national anthem in our pledge of allegiance is honored in a public schools. With that being said I will take any questions. Represent me to recognize. Thank you Mr chairman thank you for bringing this bill as a felony batter and I definitely support and wholeheartedly agree with everything you said down there the the one question that I have on the bill it says that the the national anthem will be played at the commencement of each school sanctioned sporting event I would assume the intention in here would be like at the beginning of football games on Friday night and baseball games and things like that I'm just wondering if the term school sanctioned sporting a fat event is defined because technically if the football team is having practice one afternoon with that be considered a school sanctioned sporting event that they would have to play the organ on the baseball team is practicing so I don't think your daily in chat and correct me if I'm wrong is that practices and what not. You don't necessarily want them to play the national anthem there but before obviously before the actual matches you will but I'm wondering that's been defined anywhere or what your understanding of that definition would be thank you representative makes and and that question has been addressed with the the attorney general's office as well as higher ed and and we were actually discussing it just early and I think I've spoke with the of some of the University of representatives and those that will be the rules will be determined by the schools and work through higher ed in the director of of elementary and secondary education. But you are correct that and that is the intent I be happy to sit down with the Maria Markham in the staff the R. ed as well as Attorney General's office when they develop those rules. Your browser Lowery of questions. I do the most mostly have a comment that There's a question and it is well. My dad was a. Twenty six year veteran of the Air Force and so as a look young kid we I grew up on air bases Porter Rico Georgia Maine and I'm I remember the most the most compelling Time of day for me was was at the end of the day when star spangled banned the national anthem would be played on loudspeakers across the base and every individual including kids stopped. And face wherever the music was coming from or where that wherever they saw flag and you know I know that we probably cannot compel that in this bill but I wish we could I wish we could compel that kind of patriotism and that kind of respect for our country and our students that when that national anthem is played on the loud Speaker at the school or at the ball game that they stop whatever they're doing. and turned towards it music in in give the respect so I appreciate that you're bringing this bill to us. Thank representative Lowery and I and I agree with you have listened to the national anthem normally every evening at five o'clock for for many years whether at home or abroad and one of the most sacred times that still stirs My thoughts is at ten o'clock when we play taps to make sure that we keep in the memory in our thoughts and prayers the millions that suffered and died in defense of our country thank you. Robson got free of questions. Thank you Mr chair thank you representative very for your service and for your patriotism is very evident I do have two quick questions one kind of similar to representative Meeks question because you mentioned higher but I think the bill is written for K. twelve and so my question is not so much about school sports but about elementary school sports or you know elementary kind of club teams and that schools have bad at an elementary school there's not really a PA system to. Broadcast as required in this bill the national anthem so I'm just wondering your and kind of how you see it playing out at an elementary school school sanction sporting events. But with the speakers Reginald our call up my subject matter expert and attorney general's office of Mr or Corey. But if they don't have a a PA system as I became a Speaker or a German it if they don't have a Speaker system they need to get one for emergency purposes anyway in and I think we need to look into that the if they don't but you know my opinion whether they bring out the school bander or all the you know somehow or another it's all part of educating or are used on on our national anthem and and I think is a very important however they do it so with that being said I yield to Mr **** you're recognized as an entity so please. Members Cory **** and chief of staff for the attorney general's office not only in the chief of staff on the attorney general's office like a lot of you did before you you were elected to the legislature on I'm a member of the school board and in Perryville it represent got free to your to your question I I think if I understand what you're talking about like at track and field day where the kids go out on to the playground and compete If you know it is a school board member I think my first thought would be that get it Perryville schools anyway there is an intercom system where they play the the national anthem every morning and we would adopt a policy that before the students left the classroom to go out in in go to track and field day that that that would be the equivalent of of this that the the board would have the ability to to set policy to say the four track and field day you're going to go into your room you're gonna you're gonna get organized and we'll we'll do what we already do which is play the national anthem and then the kids would would go out and and start start their track and field activities of for those for those activities that are not directly school sanctioned I would it that's beyond the purview of this bill selective in Perryville the the third graders get to play football they're not part of the official school teams it's part of the pair for you this Association but they would still even then of it I think most of those those places those entities would play the star spangled banner anyway but that's not the intent of this bill if it's not directly associated with with the school but You know the the the idea is especially with with high schools with with all of these at the kids come in for the the the schools or the most prominent form of government in small towns in Arkansas and often times and medium sized towns there the the entities that people deal with the most they'll go see the revenue folks once a year but most people at some point involved with school activities and unfortunately there or a lot of kids that get a lot of the your primary learning about the way we work as a society not from home but from school in most instances those those. Students need to feel like they belong to something and when we come together in Perryville to play football if they're coming from Hector or if they're coming from Walmart or wherever right before we we play football everybody stops and reflects that there an American first and foremost in these two teams are United in the field as they stand there and and they they they realize that even though we are rivals we're still one family and it's not as poetic as is the generals the statements but I think that some of the intent that the up for us that we were looking at is that you know for what for one time in that game we're all United and we're all together and and that that is important in an increasingly divided society that we we stop and reflect that we do have things in common and that we or or One country under god so. Thank your first question represent Godfrey it does thank you very much for the clarification I was worried about kind of that outdoor space in it And an elementary school not having a broadcast system but definitely an inside PA system would work so I appreciate that clarification my follow up question is about the and. The requirement to broadcast during the school day and once a week and representative berry I'm just wondering why you chose that frequency and and what I heard so much in your testimony was the importance of education the education around the and the national anthem and its importance and what it symbolizes in kind of a promotion of patriotism but I only see a requirement for the broadcasting of the aunt and not any kind of education around as I'm just wondering and why the weekly frequency and why not pair it with some kind of patriotic education. Thank representing our country of for your your question and I and I will say this the star spangled banner Act just for the just the playing of the national anthem now if if if you were to a proposed legislation to mandate education for the the star spangled banner or the the. Pledge of allegiance and public schools I'd be more than happy to co sponsor that. And I believe that would be a very good thing because I think that they need to be educated on the things that they're doing that to totally disrespect our country and our flag and our star spangled banner a lot of lot of people that Neil at these games do not realize what they're actually doing to some degree represent fight. Thank you Mr chairman and. This is probably going to be a wouldn't you agree and the rules and procedures for this will be set up by the department of education okay we'll come through a LC. Isn't that correct so we really don't need to get into the weeds a lot about how this is going to work at this point you're correct to thank you Miss yes ma'am thank you. Any other questions. Seeing none all right we'll move to testimony for a guest in the audiences or anyone and against this bill. For this bill. Which like clothes for your bill I'm close to my bill of Mr chairman and I appreciate the a good vote and to get the pledge of allegiance and the national anthem back into our schools thank you Mr all right I have a motion to pass representive all. A discussion on the motion. Seeing none all in favor say aye. Lows NO. Graduations you have passed your bill thank you Mr chairman. All right would you like to read a present HB eighteen thirty two. Yes Sir and did we are mentioned the the impact statement suspending the rules yes and we what we do is spend it we just ask for the objection is no objections good deal so this one's a lot easier everything that I said for eighteen thirty one is applicable eighteen thirty two and I'll be happy to take any questions. I don't see any. President Godfrey under you. Thank you Mr chair and representative berry I you can correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the moment of silence was already mandated under current law I've had to do that as a teacher for several years previously is that this morning why why that addition in code when I I thought it was already low thanks for your question there represent got for but I'm in a deferred to Corey. Members again Cory **** chief of staff for the attorney general's office representative your your corrected it is in law so so what we've done is we've we've moved it over to the section that deals with the pledge of allegiance and we've asked for the state board to promulgate rules as you know as a teacher you often live and die by the rules that are promulgated and with this area of the law there is usually there's quite a bit of change that occurs in jurisprudence real relating to what can and can't be done so um this this will allow the board for instance now you can just say well there's there's a moment of silence but maybe the State Board says well and and I have to talk to them about this I'm just I'm just saying what I think Who will not be a good use on days leading up to Memorial Day or the fourth of July or or whatever we can we can stop in during that time and ask the students to reflect on the sacrifices that were made in the that they could use that time to help the students connect with their insights and and figure out what their feelings are about these about the subjects if it's one thing to just stop it's another to have some meaning in and reflect on those things that that matter to us as Americans. Follow up you're recognized okay thank you for the clarification is that this is now just saying the man of silence will be directly after the pledge of allegiance and that they they will probably get policy on how this is supposed to be conducted thank you any other questions. Seeing none anyone the audience against. For. Like close thank you Mr chairman closed the bill appreciate a good vote thank you representative makes the votes to pass. A discussion to see none all in favor say aye. He opposed no. Congratulations your pastor to bills today thank you thanks chairman thank you committee for your your patients thank you thank you members. All right. Representative great. Thank Hoxie. We have an amendment for this bill oh I'm sorry we have a handout for this bill. No amendments that the U. I got excited in the back room back there when I thought there was an amendment. Mr terrified by could could I bring my college president up to the table with you may thank you. And I'm sorry we did not get to hear this on Tuesday was a Thursday or what else. On Tuesday the of it just got too long today so we're going to try to get this win heard today I'd appreciate that we knew it would be a stretch to get there so you guys know I've I've tried to be good also issue not not run too many controversial bills and I know this one is controversial and and so my intent today is just to show you guys exactly why why we need this bill throughout the state of Arkansas so give me just a little bit of history there been some questions as to why I'm taking this route and why we're doing this through legislation. I work in healthcare who work for a hospital hand through the pandemic but prior to the pandemic for several years we've had a nursing shortage all the way through from CNA's to LPNs to orient's it's not just one sector anymore used to you know it was just LPNs or was just RN's but we have a complete total pipeline shortage of nurses right now. So representative all at night filed a bill not too long ago to create a pathway to an LPN program through through high school. and with that I was actually reached out to by my college just with a couple questions they love the idea but Hey what your intent we have some questions and as we discussed that they asked me to come down and meet with them about you know other areas not just an LPN so I went I met with them and that's kind of how this bill was born and I can tell you so what this bill does is it allows two year colleges to offer workforce in applied science baccalaureate degrees and in a very limited scope so what we said in the bill is and it's H. L. C. language that we added that's what the amendments that I gross says is that as long as less than ten percent of the back we're at degrees or at least it is long as the back the right degrees are less than ten percent of their total certificates and degrees aren't they are not considered a four year institution they will still be a two year institution so there this in no way this is very limiting the say No Way is trying to allow them to anyone to become a four year step outside their lane. And I know doctor doll back it's been four or five years ago we actually the governor came we had a business opening there in Melbourne governor came flew into the airport and we actually arranged for a presentation for him to address this issue four years ago and we presented to him Never got off the ground we were kind of blocked getting it today he can explain that more but we were kind of locked in getting this any further so that's kinda need for legislation is we feel that there's been so much push back in there hasn't been a way to get there so we're trying to introduce it three legislation and if I could I'd like to let doctor dos a few things but one other thing real quick to nap I told him this when we when we met a few weeks ago before I filed the bill in your packet there is a mass I'm not wearing them in your packet there's a map and this is what's what I want you guys to see what I deal with in my region Ozark a college is my only college and I know this affects more colleges than just mine but they're my only one. There's a map in their map of Arkansas BSN programs when you look at this map you can see all the colleges around the state that offer and then you see Ozark a college appear in the maroon there is a complete course she across the entire across the entire north central region so if anyone from my district once the BSE and they've got to go to little rock they got to go to Jones pearl they've got to go to Fay Advil and in so my college actually did a survey not too long ago with our past graduates LPN graduates and ask them you know if you have the opportunity to get a BSE and a bachelor's degree here you know what would you do it and I believe in taking it says is there over a hundred seventy they said yes and so will we take students from other four year colleges I'm not going to lie there will be a few that decide to stay in Izard County instead of going to Craighead County but the hundred and seventy they said yes we would do it if we had access to a closer to home we have families were working we can't travel that's new people in the system that we don't currently have so my intent is focused around the nursing this would allow more the nursing but that was this that's how this idea was born has essentially that. Make sure introduce yourself if you just state your name and who you're with police should be recognized good morning Mister chair committee members I'm doctor Richard Dawe I'm the as representative gray said I've I've and the president was arca college I speak of to a large degree on the behalf of the seven other independence independent colleges across the state the who who are supporters of this of this bill this potential opportunity I want to thank representative representative gray and all because sponsors for bringing on a controversial bill I'll speak to fact this morning and I will it we can readily anticipate the opposite some of the opposition points I will speak to those those arguments as well. The last I will tell you the last college that was a two year that became a four year which we adamantly do not want any part of becoming a four year we want to remain community colleges and that's for all the eight the independent colleges across the state governor with governor appointed boards who are supportive of this this initiative so that was about twenty years ago you hear of the term process exists well the process hasn't afforded this opportunity serve additional our Kansans and please recall this point it is added to its additive it's reaching students that for some reason whether it's cost or distance our comfort with existing college have not been reached and if they could have been reach I would argue that if they they should have been in the last in the last twenty years So the existing process exists but it hasn't worked twenty three other states currently allow applied in workforce baccalaureate this is this isn't intended designed to serve industry and specifically healthcare with the the dramatic shortage of BSN certified nurses in our state So the organization that the organization that sets is very supportive of as cold CCPA tenure on the on the highlight points in your packets of the CCPA strives to ensure that all students who desire to pursue a baccalaureate degree can do so in a way that is keywords convenient. Accessible and affordable. you'll hear concerns of quality from those who oppose this bill and quality would not be an issue because particularly for BSN all programs are certified board certified by some organization some group so quality and an Ozark is quality is is well known throughout the state in hospitals and we graduated so many nurses and we want to continue to serve those to serve those nurses in this way So twenty three other. Three other states now have this as I mentioned before but and they're doing transformational things they have all added to the total the aggregate number of completed a bachelor degrees and those that are high high demand in our work force in Arkansas so twenty three twenty three other colleges there I will add that there are six or seven colleges right now that are in the legislative process this is an important point if you allow me none of the states none of the twenty three and the six or seven if you include us other during the legislative process none of those have have been approved none through the normal existing process as you will hear of today I'm sure. the demand for B. as in qualified nurses is significant and the remaining Inquirer for the numbers hired has been delayed once I thought I believe it was a year to go that a certain percentage of those hired by hospitals and they're adamantly in favor of this were they were it was delayed once because I couldn't achieve the numbers so the need is compelling and it's there again it's designed to be additive and not in could competition with the with the four years there will be some competition because we can serve our students needs are learners needs which initial serve industry we can serve them in it And as significantly lower costs and that's just that's just a fact inequalities not not a concern should not be a legitimate concern. We don't desire you hear this to from our our friends and colleagues why don't they just partner you've all heard this probably one of the just partner with for years in our case would be assent because we are are confident and the numbers of hold this argument that we can do it as well or better for dramatically lower cost to our learners to our students so that the. That's what basically and and our our governor appointed The Amendment thirty three our government a governor appointed boards of trustees they should be the ones I would argue that any other calls would argue they should be able to choose if we have if we have the fiscal position to support this new program these programs if we if we have the talent if we have the space and equipment we can do this end up next year with no additional cost nothing no additional cost to the state so and I will tell you to this is important other colleges may not have a need for BSN I think most do but they may have something like northeast arc perhaps something related to the steel industry Dr shin well northeast arc and and so on around the state we have any a unique program to allied health or our priority is represented very fully understands but we have one of two only to professional pilot aviation programs in the state Henderson our big brother sister partner and we do partner with that with the assistance cools in the four years as much as we can of they they we will send a a graduate to them usually only because of the presidential and the past hopefully continues presidential scholarship because it is quite a bit more expensive most of our to your graduates with a commercial license instructor license most of those graduates feel the need to go ahead and get the four year degree and they're doing that at expensive online high cost programs to include liberty which may my friend operates in little rock is a branch of the liberty university enter expensive and they go where they need to go would like to serve them eventually in our state and our region. So it's proving to twenty three others states we don't need a pilot we don't need we don't need a study has you here later we don't need extensive study analysis that's been done for us we're just trying to take the opportunity from the states have all been successful in adding additional degrees additional completed is in our state twenty three other states five six seven more in play one Arkansas I'll tell you if if if I hear at least thank goodness for Mrs bird Mississippi West Virginia many more times Hill drive me crazy everyone hears it we can do better than that and we can't do it in a in a incremental way it depends you know high school enrollment generally is down we're driven all of us systems for years two years some some degree by that from year to year this is an intervention that is proven successful for high demand industries in our state we're not we can't become we're not looking to become four years at all none of us speak for the eight eight the independent colleges and by the way no one this is an important point I believe no college can be forced no governor pointed board of trustees can be forced to do this it's up to the individual board and members System schools if they if they can't or choose not to two year colleges in good for them but the independence can't we can react very quickly and we we know we can make this successful in the state again only through legislative process you have the authority to to to enable this transformative action it will not happen through the traditional in place academic process has been anywhere else don't know why it would have been here for us we tried it two thousand fifteen sixteen and that with the system presidents and the the two year colleges worked Work participating in the discussion I understand that I understand the politics performance and I'm but the vote to close your under the of performance funding is a new factor we can't become four years is new we don't want to again limited by ten percent of graduates and three degrees or less so we talked small numbers by the way in terms of the kind that competitive concerns we we would start with the with the cohort for this instance nurses Gillam into the workforce at that higher level that management level we would start with twenty most likely cohort of twenty and we can do that very quickly it's an advantage of being an independent college quite frankly. We appreciate and respect are for your partners in the system and the systems we we play well together almost all the time this is a controversial issue and performance funding is frankly driving it concerns largely for for this with that is seen as a competitive competitive matter. So I would like to of like to close in saying speak for Ozark a primarily but this would apply to other the other colleges who are represented some degree again we have a hundred ten I have a hundred ten letters refusal so we would have more now a hundred ten letters of ardent support from R. eighty seven plus clinical sites for nursing in our hospital CEOs across northern Arkansas so this is strong support their passion about doing anything anything they can to help make this make this happen in a long term we have a controlling issues in it mechanisms and in the state in higher ed if iron Roman didn't meet the minimum then it would be discontinued we know what will because we know we realize a compelling need for that. So with that there's more I would love to say but I want to share time for others so um I would take any questions here. He referred questions representative speaks you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair. I want to know for a issue Mountain Home is going to be and all of this are they gonna be able to do this is are just so much money out there for this our so As You Mountain Home all of this system to your schools would be able to do this if they wanted to in their systems I guess approved of it I don't know all their hierarchy with their boards and all that but this does not it's not limited just to the independence it's any two year college that wanted to do it. Find the funding is not coming and it's not I'm not asking for any more state funding this would be you know the college presidents in the boards deciding that they wanted to invest money to get the program off the ground you know to better to better our G. D. a geographic areas. You're recognized. Thank you. I just wondered if they had spoken with you all it you know Dr Myers. In regard to the as have you been in contact with any of these other two year schools around us yes ma'am and I will I will tell you it's a sensitive topic in fairness because we we work so well with our colleagues in an ACC ACC we had a pretty of. Robust debate last week which is good the last time that I tried to advances concept is before all the states approved success frankly but there was I was told rectally by two chancellors at they were supposed to engage in a discussion and course will have bosses right minor seven governor appointed trust trustees and my wife of course but they were they they were who's listening they were they were engaging in a discussion for whatever reason I won't say they were told not to well it said that but this time there was more dialogue which I find is of a very good sign but no one is forced to but they would have an opportunity if this if this bill is passed they would have not to confer with their system leadership and then do it if it made sense to the system into the individual college we're ready to go and it And as independents who I speak largely for a ready to go if they choose to the nobody would be forced to do this at all and small numbers it's on them if it's on the margin but it's adding new it's additive it would is not as zero sum high anymore it's and one from one point if I may just in answering your questions Before we've always been told it's a role in scope change you may hear that from from a higher ed today role in school changes required so that takes time of course that's on the colleges who want advanced but importantly rolling scope is no longer required if you stay under the under those limits no role it's going to change that makes a little harder and who you go to first HLC or Ark state of Arkansas well it's not required so HLC higher learning commission says seamless no problem as long as you stay under three degrees which we all understand it will not affect the village and that was a big push back for those who have millage. VOL one more okay all sorry thank you. Is there is anybody in here from an issue. That's what they're there in the sure the holder and there's a whole slew under and I'm holding right okay I'll us thank you represent is the recognized. Thank you Mr chair you know I said the one thing we were doing committees is please don't put me on public health which is popular no issue there because I didn't want to scope of practice and here we are scope of practice of having him or am I schools asking about this things. I think I'm missing something here I know in the handout you'll keep referencing another ten percent but also it says three no more than three programs but I don't see that the legislation I'm sure can you point that to me. That that man that is in that's a higher learning commission directive that all the all the colleges and assistance included or aware of that's fairly new though that that was a concerning the past referencing Westar twenty some years ago well they all one and the which is now of course you enforcement they all want to be for your call is we expressly do not desire to to do become anything other than a community college serving the needs of the industry workforce and our students. Follows yes representative again the apt we pulled so there was some question about amendment to Billy's Amendment fifty two to the Arkansas constitution that says if you're it to your school and you have a millage that essentially you cannot become a four year school and keep your millage and so we were trying to figure out how to address that issue or if we even could and this HLC language was given to me we found that with the ten percent so the three degrees that is not in the bill and that's kind of new to me but this is the ten percent does fall of HLC languages well it's my understanding. So thank you that answer committee questions but the since we have this other I'm I'm not even familiar with the legal here trying to learn it so are we offering any other to bail out and two years now to offer any four degree programs at all. So it is my understanding that so the two years like representative speak she is a issue Mountain Home so she could they could partner with their system school an offer a four year degree through them at their campus is that fair yes yes that is true of the systems have that opportunity and one might ask do white well why not just partner because with an independent like Ozark a white one I just partner with the system because we can do it as well close to home and and quite and is board certified so the the qualities non issues you might hear later and we can do it about a third of the cost and we're prepared to do that now speak for my school and I know others from the same same situation so dramatically less affordable it's where the students are they don't want to travel if if they wanted to they would have been reached and they would have completed so this is this a reach students that no one systems for two year colleges have been able to reach before because we haven't been approved to do so so that three three program limitation that doesn't exist in here but exist somewhere in a regulation that is referencing these partnerships is that correct they can only partner for three programs is I I don't think it refers to the systems you Dr Walter someone to answer that but it it that is a requirement from the higher learning commission for those two years those community colleges who offer applied and workforce baccalaureus and that's addresses the concerns of some of had and you may here today that we we just want to come four years absolutely not we do what we do well we want to do better. From cemex. Thank you Mr I have a question and a follow up it'll be brief five question is it says that you can do these do high demand career fields is there any water anyway are a House high demand defined. Well as it I'm sorry go ahead it's that is defined through workforce analysis economic development ounces ever individual colleges working closely with our with our workforce partners our industry partners for instance Emerson now has a big plant in one of our counties for those arca and we know very well we're developing programs Cision machinery as an example specifically for them I don't know that that would become perhaps an industrial technology applying workforce back lord I'd say there's potential for that that professional pilot you know I we all understand I think to the extent the demand in the commercial aviation industry now for pilots it's it's it's shocking and and we and Henderson state are our partners are we're we're both trying to meet that challenge to keep people in Arkansas in and allow them to stay where they want to stay and have good paying tax paying jobs and a razor families here we all have or want to raise our family service sounds like there's a lot of autonomy there for the local institutions to to make that decision which is Could be a good thanks that was my follow up questions I notice on the bill there's an emergency clause on on it and I'm just wondering why the need for the emergency clause. And it says that the honestly there's probably not a need for the emergency clause and when I don't know that's here they're about yours it's probably not that seeks because we said you know created by the end of the twenty two twenty three academic year so there's probably I mean I would care to take that out but there's probably not in the mood for emergency I just didn't know if there were something I was missing that okay I thank disdain for your other question too I just want to say that each area of the state has completely different industry or service areas and so this leaves it open we're not defining what had demand is it leaves it open for each geographic region to decide what's best for their area. A person got for you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair thank you represent great appreciate the conversations we've had offline and you know I'm a little bit torn on this one I have a large university near my district I have a large community college in my district and they have different opinions on this and so I'm trying to get their act I appreciate and just that their explanation wait anticipated a lot of the concerns and I want to circle back to the quality of the program because I appreciate and your explanation not accreditation I think that's really important but I am still wondering about the practical application of a student. Fulfilling all of the course requirements within two years and that that would usually take for your senate. Yes if you could talk to that about the time crunch that the it's so it's not doing that it's okay compressing it from three years to two years it's allowing a true for your program so you would get your like associates bachelor's and that ninety one of the other things that I researched and you can respond as well but one of the other things I looked at because I know you had asked me about quality of course he said you know that the board certified they have to meet all these stringent requirements just to have the program in the first place and to keep it but when I looked at all the passing rates for the nurses that are currently I'm coming out of the programs of Zarqa has and ninety things ninety four point six percent passage rate and so it's a very high percentage of nurses graduated you'll be in that if passed it it is very similar for a lot of the other two year colleges and I would expect you know if you start to see those rates differ or drop in an already program then you would know you had issues but currently most of the two years have a high high passage rate which which goes to show quality as well thank you for that clarification I apologize for my misunderstanding thank you could I briefly get into that just very briefly respect your time of those arca because as an example which I'm most familiar with we we have graduated since nineteen inception nineteen seventy six three and a fifty five RN's fifteen hundred Appian six hundred eighty five C. N. A.'s one add of course be ascended that but we are I have been told personally by executives at that very hospitals we are with our respect for my call colleagues at other schools we're that we're the choice for hiring and and so that's been a consistent thematic messages I've received on behalf of our LA health extremely talents staff so you may be wondering which we've and we would add one we're prepared to do that one MS in masters qualified nursing faculty it's it's BSEB Ascendas. Largely management so they can be for managers and so forth at the hospitals and the clinics and so on it is very very light in clinicals but for what little clinicals will be added we hire some adjunct clinical instructors who we we have a large pool as others do and and the quality is absolutely not and not an issue for us. Rezar Lowery. Thank you Mr. I'm very a very sensitive and very appreciative of the fact that you mention the community colleges are able to. DO their instruction for about one third of the cost I know that was something that we discussed quite a bit when we're looking at the issue of remediation and whether remediation should be done at community colleges because it saves students so much money the question I have about that is you and you just mention the need the need to hire an MS in or. Thankfully beyond just the adage of because it's a specialty of moving into the the BSN program you're going to have to have a more specialized faculty member. How are you eight was projecting that you would be able to maintain that advantage that you're talking about that one third the cost when to the student with your costs are going to increase by the quality of faculty member that you're going to have to have to teach a BSN program. What represent Lowery the appreciate your question we already have an and and and in missing qualified record allied health health Katie Wilson others have that level and higher for their programs it's largely management as I mentioned before and so the the the level of extracts parties that did add him as an additional emission of level qualified faculty member director of wood well again we would do that without requesting additional funds from the from the state we might offset existing of not quoted that position in our college budget but we're we're well able to handle that and the quality it's just a prime again in this in BSN as examples Pro primarily health related management courses so we have we have and my board has no concerns about our ability to manage a quality representative gray has said we have we have and others due to I I know I'm speaking mainly Ozarka right now but we have and exceptional nursing program to to to your community college level across the state. representative gray you mentioned that there's the horseshoe of I I guess of. Devoid so to speak a BSN program and and I'm really kind of speaking out of my realm here but I know that it is more specialized it is more targeted in terms of the the necessity for that advanced degree that includes clinical rotations hello hello is that that capacity I mean I know that that it was mentioned that you have all these letters of support and that's one thing but is there at the capacity for the clinical rotations that are required for a BSN program so. That's a good that's a good question with their a lot of current clinical sites you know in my area. Do I think there are no before talking twenty students I think we'd be okay and if we did expand we he has campuses areas are college has campuses in multiple counties throughout that area so if we ever expanded to forty or sixty it might be an issue would honestly clinical sites or an issue throughout the entire pipeline for LPNs as well and so one of the things I looked at I can't and I have had this discussion with several people it's almost like you know I've got to solve and resolve the problem of that assault an entire spectrum all at one time. The clinical sites I do believe it is an issue already and so this being you know that the rules and everything or promulgated by twenty two twenty three essentially gives us time to figure out and work to get more clinical sites in the rotation so I do I don't want to say that we a hundred percent have enough sites right now but I do want to say that we do realize that that is possibly an issue and something that will have to work towards getting up more sites and resident yes Rickly if I get briefly thank you of the clinical again clinic clinicals are very light in the BSN program so and in this way have to be something decided by an administration and and the and the the the president or chancellor at each college because we all have different clinical of restrictions or availability we have eighty plus clinical sites and adding twenty twenty five students for this would not be an issue as a firm by the letters of support from all of our sites a few years ago. All right Mister Maddox Europe thank you Mr chair so my question for Mr doll I believe I said that correctly yes so in your test to and you kind of you kind of reference organ here that there's already a process in place so my first question is is there already a process in place for you to achieve this goal. The there there has been in a opponents of this bill will say that there is but again none none of the twenty three states have achieved this because it seems competitive and threatening particular with performance funding which I think all states having some form or another it is it is no longer it is not it is not the intended due to expected to be competitive it's additive adding new complete orders in high needs areas but to the existing process hasn't worked anywhere else too much opposition from Systems frankly and and that's I wouldn't they you know I I tried five years ago six years ago to advance in any arguments were and receive good exceptions from our friends and colleagues at the systems again we work generally very very well with them but will with the argument that will work together and you can you know they want to be to to some extent part of their system we want to keep costs down services states follow up Mr so I guess the and that's kind of citizens the there is a process so just be specific have you attempted to use the existing process to put this in place yes to the current and past directors of than eight a the Department now Division of higher ed and we were told in fairness to to Brett pal Emer and Dr Markham we we were told I was told directly that well you have to get a role scope change first we no longer need that if we limit the number of degrees so that that's that's kind of the labors labor some labor intensive process and I tried to bring it forward to the coordinating board it was pulled from the agenda quite frankly and every good reasons for that undoubtedly but a lot of it is the fear of competition particularly in light of performance funding and I will add an are you if I may serve the. At the the argument has been all along one of the chief arguments as well they need to stay in their swim lane so to speak and what they were established for well my friend we all we all are we're in the state that because largely because driven by performance funding some four years in Arkansas offer as many as fifty sixty percent of degrees and certificates below the two year degree at or below the two year degree so that argument is is amended at this point. Can I have one last one Mr. Thank you so it in even answer my questions I believe but. There is a process we could try to continue to improve and work through eight the part of higher ed and the chi what you're trying to achieve without this law sat correct no Sir not in our opinion the eight independent colleges because none of the states again I'm sorry for the redundancy another twenty three states have ever achieved that through the quote unquote established process systems where we have great systems in our state and great leadership and staffs and we're feeling the the pressure from the over this bill but no they they have influence in the department absolutely and there's a fear of competitiveness and why change things why change things because we can we can't do anything truly add degrees other than marginally without an intervention you are empowered to allow us to try small numbers the meeting industry workforce needs its dramatic in our state particularly post code which were nearing. So I would just I would danger that represented Maddox I would say yes there's a process is it a reality that it would ever come to fruition no and and that's you know we're down to eight independent colleges in the state and that's essentially it's eight against the rest of higher it that's the kind of the way I look at it and I think that's kind of what's happened in the other states that pursued this as well so yes there's a process will it ever happen no. All right the representative fight. Thank you Mr chair many many years ago before you AFS was you A. F. S. when it was still western college they offered specific courses usually in the evening that teachers could take from the University of Arkansas for specific course work that we needed some of those were actually master's level if this bill does not pass would you be able to offer courses occasional courses of that nature that the students would need and then they could pursue the other courses on another campus we we have offered in the past such courses our students again we we surveyed I think a hundred seventy five plus and the numbers for the larger now of course and in five years but they do not desire to take more expensive courses they do not they do not desire to to move or commute and and many of them the most many of those classes are strictly online we would teach classes and it was early very common in a hybrid manner some in class in some some online to meet our students needs but they indicated very clearly in the in their survey feedback that they have no interest in a rolling unless they can they can and we're going to be waiting list should it shouldn't be approved but they have no interest in for those reasons in in seeking seeking elsewhere largely cost and travel issue that's what my yes what my response would be autonomy a so they can keep you know that the two years and keep their autonomy and B. for cost and is to keep the costs down. Because if we did days so let's say they did they partnered and the cost would be essentially because it's through the system school the cost would be the systems tuition cost and not it was our colleges tuition cost. Presented back to recognized. Thank you Mr chair my question is related to an earlier question. I also have heard that the clinicals of the issue here. That we can't you know we can turn out more students if we can get the clinicals so so so my question is really coming related to that if you have I think if we said twenty or something all right the the I'm assuming that that you've done a model here that says okay yeah we can provide this course for X. dollars and based upon structures and so on so forth have you considered whether or not you would be able to Yeah if you didn't get the clinicals now you can only have twenty students in a program that. The other thing I've heard is that the the instructions for this program are very expensive so have you considered that if I don't have. Twenty clinicals are not only have access to twenty clinicals what I be able to serve support the program at a lower cost that you're saying you can. Sir we have we have access to over eighty clinical sites that we currently currently use adding twenty to twenty five clinical operations site and not additional sites from the existing sites my director of allied health my pros say in the those before them say that that won't be an issue and and nursing like of flight truckers quite frankly are are more and more expensive on average but the pay off for both careers the long term benefits are are well worth the college expense and again this is not for everybody if we if boards of trustees Pirmin thirty three feeling they it's it's the right thing for our region for a college of nursing it's and so be it but it's not for everyone but for those who can do it and want to do and the need is compelling in there and and we hope for approval so that we can do that on a small scale. Thank you reserve speaks. Number four. Thank you Mr chair. Where is the closest hospital to you a two year campus the court but the closest hospital we've got it critical access hospital in calico rock it's about twenty three miles of one that away that we've got to White River health system just about thirty miles an Baxter regional which is about nothing close to forty five fifty miles okay okay well we've got Mountain View which is about thirty miles as well I wasn't sure on that thanks. All right the that is the end of the. Questions from committee thank. The representative makes you have a. motion. Syrian motion motion that we limit testimony to five minutes per person not including questions from committee. We have a motion Is proper motion non debatable all in favor say aye opposed no. Is have it. We will hear from for and against they'll have five minutes to present their sides and I know we have quite a few so first off will call doctor Markham up. I hate I hate to do this but we do have that twelve fifteen limit on our meeting today every day so I want to try to make sure we get all heard. This will be against the bill correct that's correct you're recognized Mister chair members of the committee how Maria Markham director of the division of higher education and I am an Arkansas native saw talk slow but I will try to keep it to five minutes I rarely come to the table in opposition of the bill but I have respectfully I have to oppose House Bill eighteen fifty four I've got some prepared remarks that I want to cover but also in response to some of the testimony that we just heard I feel like I need to point out a couple of inconsistencies there as well. Role in scope you've heard that term thrown around a lot that defines the level of potential an institution can offer and the overall mission of the institution adding baccalaureate degrees at a two year college constitutes a role in scope change contrary to the testimony we just tired that is required both from the higher rate coordinating board and from higher learning commission I have with me today the September guidelines from twenty twenty that was just released by higher learning commission there is no ten percent reference there is no minimum number baccalaureate degrees that keeps you from meeting to go through a substantive change process that is still requirement that our process that was referred to earlier mirrors so there is no sure way to get to a baccalaureate degree even with legislative change even if we were ordered at that from the legislature to allow this higher learning commission would still be a barrier and that process would be more and not less rigorous to provide justification. To be clear I'm not opposed to making changes stroll in scope to allow institutions to offer appropriate programming when that is consistent with the evolving nature of their workforce industry needs is example we just change roles go from University last year an institution wanted to go from being a master training institution off offering doctoral degrees they struggle the HLC process we help them we Shepherd at three we provided the data we help them with their faculty we help them justify their budget that process had to slow down to move forward but we were part of that process we work very closely with higher learning commission to ensure quality and demand. nineteen eighty eight G. assist in developing proposals for higher learning commission that are consistent with the both the student demand industry demand and the responsible allocation of state resources for new programming. My primary opposition to the proposed bill as referenced earlier is that there is existing law on the books policy procedures and processes indicated that are readily available for institutions and regularly petition for through higher rate quartet Board it does not require a change in law I'd I'd had not plans to speak specifically to the institution that we're talking about but now I feel like I have to because you received some information that is incorrect the map of the nursing programs that you received if you will notice it is stamped with the Ozark college logo that did not come from a agency in addition to those programs you see on your map we have three one hundred percent online BSN programs that transition B. as the R. R. instead be a St we have fourteen BSN programs already located on two year college campuses there offered from universities not all of those are system colleges a lot of those colleges are non system schools that have partnered for BSN programs they also receive tuition discounts from those universities they are not paying university presses to get their BSN program. The last proposal that we receive from Ozark referred BSN program to change their role in scope did indicate that number of openings however all but seven of those were in were outside of their service area they were any of the Batesville you ACC be service area or in the a issue Mountain Home service area we also called each individual provider and they said they did not need the number of B. S. ins that were reported in their surveys and that they only needed very few and they provide they the the industry partners preferred the online program because it allowed them to maintain their RN's working in their hospitals and do their online portion after hours so they did not have to quit their jobs so that is what the role in scope change with denied had nothing to do with funding because it doesn't it's not impacted by our protective any funding model it's not even considered it also had nothing to do with competition my role is not to choose who wins or loses among our institutions but to ensure access availability of programming where the demand is fab justified intimidated. Arkansas Code six sixty one two a seven bestows the responsibility of determine these role in scope decisions for public institution with the coordinating board our policy three point one eight provides a framework for proposed changes in direct institutions toward procedures to request consideration the process and procedures for in scope changes can contain complete guidance requirements and all that's necessary for adequate justification alter role in scope for that reason this bill is superfluous is it requires something that's already been developed to be redeveloped and one major flaws that there's no promulgation clause as was not mentioned earlier so we don't even have the opportunity to write the rules so I still have a whole lot to say that I will take questions and hopefully it will if you could get one of those other guys give your five minutes there five minutes you can come back. Right now I don't know that they're going to what we're going to take questions rose's big you have a question. What how. Any questions from anyone. Represent Maddox. Thank you Mr chair so I believe you were in the room when I ask my question earlier and when we asked about the process says Mr doll about the process this is there is a process in essence I'm paraphrasing but that they failed in the process but the only reason they fell in the process is because the system schools are causing them to fail is that true that in all right that petition with to me it did not go to the system schools it went to my predecessor and it always also went to me when we investigated the demand in that area they were unable to justify the need for such a program and that is what failed. Thank you representive Womack. Thank you Mr in your opinion what's most compelling of. Piece of data they got left out of your testimony. That would support your position. the most compelling piece of data. And that probably that twenty three other states that have been approved for this have a very similar process they they did need legislation we already have legislation that that requires us that created a process for review so yes those states have the programs because they were successful in demonstrating need and demonstrating their ability to support these types of changes. Representing the. director here that said that the reason why they were denied this was because they failed to should demonstrated demand or need for the program can you tell us what all is required of them or what is required in order for them to to show or demonstrate that there is a need certainly so we have a an employer needs survey that the institutions are required to get out to all their partners to complete we also have a of leave a student's interest survey that is informative but it's not really as informative if you would think previously I was at an institution I would do these types of surveys we would hear yes if you had a you know an OTA program there five hundred students that want to do it but then when you actually launch the program will those will that desire to be an O. T. A. really result in enrollments so you have to consider the fact that. Consider your audience and who you're asking those questions so there there's an employer any survey in and to your point into your question I just want to say that when you're looking at data to determine what the need is for the programs and we're going to our agency higher ed will be releasing our comprehensive strategic plan for the next five years probably the end of this month to our board we've been engaged with stakeholders for over a year to do an analysis of supply demand gap statewide and at the regional level and so we have exact targets by region how many credentials we need to add and that is the data that we will use to determine whether there is need in an area to add programs if we determine there is a need that would expedite the program and we would also be able to use existing resources to support those developments like our regional workforce grants so whenever there's a justifiable need this process is very easy it's it's when there's not need or there's not appropriate resources this process gets very difficult and to get three. Representative authorizing best thank you Mr chair do other at two years offer four year degrees just on their own they don't conferred degrees not in Arkansas so in Arkansas we have just a list of the things that we already have we have degrees in education business agriculture criminology biology chemistry computer science and be a sentence on two year college campuses but the conferring institution is actually a university one good example representative Vaught at the end of queen at C. C. C. Wei probably ninety percent of the teachers in that district got their training through the essay you partnership on the going campus to the point we trained so many of K. six teachers we saturated that market and had made to middle school so these are things that I've been going on for ten fifteen years to to bring a baccalaureate degrees for high need programs to the regional campus can have a follow up please you may have you had any other two year institutions that have ask for this or have been approved for this no one else is asked thank you thank you. Are there any other questions. Seeing no more thank you Dr Martin. This time will bring in doctor Steven Bloomberg. We speak for the bill not sure of trees in the back room possibly you are come forward please. He would take them to a table there state your name and who you're with you're recognized to speak for the bill. Thank you chair Cozart good morning everyone Stephen Blumberg president. Good morning everyone Stephen Lambert president Southeast Arkansas college pine bluff Arkansas. Sure Cozart in five minutes up thank you probably know that correct okay thank you sure that's correct thank thank you so much again I'm Stephen Blumberg president of southeast Arkansas College in pine bluff first I want to thank you as a committee for participating in this important discussion. Sometimes changes and is an easy but today I think represents a unique opportunity to further develop what I will call a skilled workforce in Arkansas help our health care providers who have been decimated by the on going COVID nineteen pandemic and as community colleges do what we do best and that serve as an engine for economic development in the state of Arkansas. I know you've heard much about the need but a few more facts according the American Association of colleges of nursing in October twenty ten the institute of medicine released its landmark report on the future of nursing in America it called for the increasing numbers a baccalaureate prepared nurses in the workforce to eighty percent and doubling the population nurses with doctoral degrees today the current nursing workforce in the United States fall short of these recommendations with only sixty four point two percent of our ends who are prepared at the baccalaureate or graduate levels. The opportunity hearing about today will help the state of Arkansas equalize our baccalaureate prepared nurses moreover as a population we all continue to age in twenty seventeen United States Census bureau reported that by twenty thirty the number of US residents age sixty five and over is projected to be eighty two million with larger numbers of older adults there will be an increased need of course for geriatric care care for individuals with chronic diseases and comorbidities. Looking at my institution service area specifically a question was asked earlier about quantifying local need I said on the Southeast Arkansas workforce development board as a member. In the top ten fastest growing areas in Southeast Arkansas industries include hospitals and of course the third fastest growing occupation is nursing. Pine bluff is home to the largest regional health care facility south of little rock Jefferson regional Medical Center Jefferson regional employs over one thousand five hundred individuals currently today Jefferson regional offer sign on bonuses of eight thousand up to twelve thousand dollars for nurses and qualified departments when I spoke to our our partners that chair and see about this need they were very enthusiastic about having access to more baccalaureate prepared nurses nurses who possess a BSN at JMC receive a higher starting salary than those who do not. If you look at Jefferson regional website today fifty three currently opening nursing positions are available most of these positions cannot be filled because we don't have enough individuals coming out of out of the pipeline. H. B. eighteen fifty four will help provide Southeast Arkansas college the tools necessary to fill these positions with bachelor prepared nurses. And I think we cannot ignore the significant impact to local economies from this initiative. Looking at payscale dot com who is a compensation solutions data provider BSN RN's earn an average salary of eighty three thousand dollars fourteen thousand more than the mean salary of an R. and with the same experience only makes about sixty nine thousand dollars per year. In Southeast Arkansas in particular this opportunity creates individual wealth and more importantly disposable income which to drives other sectors of our economy. As we look at the community in a county meeting pine bluff and Jefferson County whose poverty rate is over thirty percent. I plan to a BSN offers a pipeline to a transformative opportunity for a better life better opportunity for employment. Again we have a large regional Medical Center that desperately needs more individuals trained in BSN you for talks about costs yes there is a differential tuition rate differential tuition is still lower than tuition any of our for your partner's. In some this is an excellent opportunity for our students at southeast Arkansas college I cannot underscore enough the economic and workforce development impact this initiative will have. Sure Cozart and committee members I would say today is not about maintaining the status quo. It is about creating viable options an individual wealth it's about further honing our workforce and helping to meet the needs of Arkansas employers. Our discussions today represent the very reason that I mean community college education I'm a first generation college student my parents didn't graduate from high school I know the transcendental opportunities that we offer our students. This is a very DNA of what we do flexibility adaptability. A full commitment to economic and workforce development your time is up but if I give you a chance to or finish a sentence or whatever. Your clothes are thank you I will entertain any questions that either you or the committee members may have any questions. Well the good news years ago there. Saucedo questions thank you Sir thank you checkers are thank you committee members at this time will bring and a Dr Houston Davis. And then after that will be capped the client so that a product Mr Davis to take the other table state your name and who you're with you will be recognized to speak against the bill. Thank you Mr chairman Houston Davis president university of central Arkansas per share your time as much as provide a little bit of inside as president of you see a enough for your institution here in the Arkansas system of higher education my background for six years I was by Senator practical fears with Oklahoma state regents for higher education and then spent five years as the chief academic officer of the university system of Georgia and that may not sound like a very exciting eleven years of anyone's life but my responsibilities were the academic program expansion in the accreditation matters related to all of higher education in those two states so that will be sprinkled in my comments here certainly and I want to weigh in and I know that need to be very quick at the heart of all this in any state across the country is mission creep of institution and unnecessary duplication of effort you frequently here do we have too many higher education institutions in all fifty states you also get down to the granular level do we have unnecessary duplication of programming effort you also have every state wants to make certain that you maintain tears of institutions tears of opportunity that provide those affordable opportunities there's a reason you have a community college here there's a reason you have a regional university tier there's a reason you have comprehensive universities and there's a reason you have regional or research universities that's how a state provides affordable opportunities to its citizenry all of this gets at the resources at the institutional level in program level Koster driven by that every thing that a director Markham shared earlier that eighty eight she has to worry about from a program approval standpoint is about looking at the one thousand level two thousand level three thousand level to junior year four thousand level to senior year in an integrator programs the cost structure that's associated with hiring the specialized faculty and having the technology the lot. Very learning resources everything that's necessary to deliver that program to where any accrediting function is going to say that that program to serve accreditation came here today what we're talking about applied baccalaureate programs most of it's been about the BSN program there's a reason that eighty eight she would be concerned about BSN programs they are merely reflecting the concerns that the nursing accrediting board is going to have about approving the program and they absolutely are mirroring the concerns that the higher learning commission and any of the other five regional accrediting bodies in the country are going to have about that expansion. In my previous states it was about functions of university I think role in scope is a better artful term but in the end it's about the function of the institution being able to deliver programs at the appropriate level you see a enjoys being an independent institution as well we're we're independent we're not in one of the two large systems that we think of in the state but there's a reason that we certainly respect the needs of the State of Arkansas to think about the fact that if you see a wants to expand into PhD programs or in a specialized graduate programs that we need to work within the framework that ADHD and use the legislature have supplied for this state to make certain that there's not unnecessary mission creep I certainly would push back on the idea that there's not going to be a substantive change involved here I would join a Director Markham and I'll just read straight from H. LC a substantive change leads to a significant departure from the institution's existing programs if the institution does not currently offer the programs at the same degree level or if new faculty must be hired with new expertise or if specialized accreditation is concerned. At UCLA we couldn't even expand our nursing cohort from seventy to any more than seventy seven we can go up ten percent slots because for eight or nine years in nursing accrediting body said that we needed to have better facilities and we also had to prove that the faculty replace the integrated health sciences building that we're building now thirty eight million dollars that's allowing us to double up our nursing program as well as other health science programs that is in direct response to someone outside of you see a and someone outside of just our our on microbial thing saying that you need to attend to make certain the quality nothing in life comes free either monetarily or with some other effort the reason that the substantive change is in places to make certain that something is delivered at a level of quality on the baccalaureat or the plot back or degree to mention about twenty three states in Oklahoma and Georgia that's part of what I did at my office and my staff will lead those applied baccalaureate program expansions and that absolutely work to the process in those states and it's my understanding that any conversation about back to the public of professional science about to applied science those would all work to the ADHD structure and I would expect on that date for your schools in the two year school to work together on that thank you. Thanks for testimony any questions. Seeing none thanks are thank you at this time we'll call of Kathy Klein. Restart and saw community college will speak for the bill. This client if you'll take the state your name and who you're with you're recognized speak for the bill yep five minutes short Kathy Klein ist Arkansas community college and one of your independent two year colleges a couple of things I would just encourage you to listen to the merits of the idea just because a ninety is difficult to pursue higher education doesn't mean that we don't pursue it I did check with that you'll see about this it would take an application process to change it into those since I've been president for three and a half years sensitive change applications there's more more than now but our agency liaison said as long as you do fewer than three bachelor's degrees you are not changing your role in scope the Carnegie classification system says as long as ten per viewer ten percent or fewer of your degrees are less than a bachelor's level you'll injured Carnegie classification so that's where that comes from and yes it's a lot of work to go through an agency says to change process in addition You know. This bill I don't think preclude anything from ADHD from working on the quality the needs we would still have to go through all of that process with the higher education coordinating board so I would just think about is this a good idea what with this bill would do is help us communicated statewide there is a need for this and that our legislature has recognized that so I would appreciate you thinking along those lines as far as being able or would cost me more money and be ascended associates degree nurses get the same ari and certification all of my faculty are doctoral or master's degree certified nurses one thing that I think is a little short sighted that I would be really excited about in Florida between two thousand six in two thousand thirteen they doubled their number of advanced and masters nurses when I started this program which would help me have more instructors for preceptors more political instructors and would help me then provide more Appian in foreign nurses so that is a big a big reason in my mind that this is a good idea. And I will take any questions at this point all right any questions from committee. Seeing that thank you for your testimony. At this time we will call and Dr Chuck Welch AS you systems. That could be just what she says is a regular looking up. Chairman asked me to wear a full face basket I could possibly do that but my apologies I can find one click and the doctor will see I have a lot of folks because each other so you stay today but who you're with you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman Chuck Welch Arkansas state university system let me start by also being very clear that I'm not at all opposed to the concept of applied by killed baccalaureate degrees BSN degrees any of those things it's about the way we go about our business that. And also feel compelled to comment or a lot of comments about how effectively this was a system versus independence situation it simply is not you know it seems that anytime there's disagreement among any of our institutions it becomes well the systems won't let him do that the independence hall under that things that nature I met with our five community colleges on Friday to discuss this bill I told them at the very beginning that I wanted to hear their thoughts I was not going to tell them how to vote I was not going to restrict them from speaking I got a text from doctor Bob it just a few minutes ago he did the exact same thing. you know the same market was made during the performance funding but it was independence versus systems we have lots of partnerships with independent institutions just as we do with our system institutions and we want to continue that I will tell you that I reached out to the dean of nursing at Arkansas state university and asked if any of the independent institutions in our region had contacted them about the possibility of working together on a BSN degree program the answer was not. So this clearly is something that needs to be talked about the context of what's important and not try to distract with its us versus them or those sorts of things you know I'm gonna president chancellor for sixteen years now to your level independent university level at the system level and my recollection I have had two conversations about this topic this one is several years ago when my colleague president all came to talk to me about it the first time to my knowledge there been no meetings there but no one's going discussions about can we make this work was the best to teach approach for higher education there were no collaborative discussions about this particular bill among our institutions even among the association of community college campuses and I think that's likely why that organization chose not to have a stance on this particular piece of legislation please don't misunderstand me the campus is the issue system would like to have these opportunities would like to talk about these opportunities but they think it needs to be done in a collaborative and coordinated approach a lot's been said about established process sees and how those can be worked through when Ozarka did go through eighty eight she let me be clear again I did not engage in that process I have no role in that process Dr Bob has no role in that process it's simply a process to ensure that we can verify rigor we can verify non duplication and we can verify neat there was some discussion about legal concerns particularly as it relates to Amendment fifty two in our local millage is that many of our community colleges have most of those villages are tied directly to debt service and I know there was an amendment to the bill to speak to that I will tell you we've visited with bond counsel bond council still has serious concerns that just simply having that statement or just simply looking at HLC standards does not necessarily fix that if a law also were to be brought forward regarding that constitutional amendment it would be about what. Were the expectations and intentions of voters who approve that millage and looking at the whole spectrum of things and I said to my own community colleges I don't think adding a selective baccalaureate degree makes a two year or four year institution. I do think that alongside other issues expansions of residence halls are committee college campuses expansion of athletics programs in our community college campuses and I'm for both of those things too I think they make that argument though harder if we were to have a legal challenge to our local tax bases which we don't need to do. The last thing that I want to say is I have made a commitment to discussing this topic I made it several years ago and I made it again when the bill is filed to sit down and collaborative we try to do something that is strategic for the state that make sure that were in line with what other states are doing I think you heard conflicting testimony about exactly what's happened and to help find a way forward that's best for our institutions and best for our state and I will also tell you that I've had multiple conversations in the last forty eight hours with independent community colleges who asked me to help try to facilitate exactly those discussions that willing to still exists but I think we need to be very careful to ensure that we're strategic that were focused in our approach and we make sure that we are actually accomplishing what it is that we want to complicate this process I have zero problem the concept my issue is with the process and I think we need to work on that and I'd be happy to answer any questions Mr other any questions. Seeing the thank you Sir thank you Mr I try to be nicer to you I will hold my breath. All right that's all of our written down testimony that we have that it signed up is there anyone in the audience that would like to speak. This is that was an against all go to a four. Anyone against seeing none of would you like to close for your bill. Okay. Thank you Mr chair committee I know it's been over an hour we've been sitting here and. I'll start this by saying that Dr Markham as much as I respect and like her never reached out to me on this bill one time she said here that I know she's not strong and maybe she's that has struggled the time or maybe this really has made her that upset but she did not reach out to me one time whether that what with this but the concept or that the fact that I did put promulgation in the bill that's something easy acted fix which makes me think that she does not make for much said that she just adamantly opposes this bill in any shape or form and that's fine and. She also mentioned that so where I'm being pitted right now is I'm either being pitted the say that she's lying or my college president is lying so when he tried to go to the coordinating board before I'm told that he was on the agenda he was removed from the agenda without notification or any proper you know communication so if Dr Markham says that there was not in need in my community then that should have been communicated to my president and I hope it was and I hope that you can get me that communication and and I would say that having a hundred and seventy plus students that are willing to continue their education Justin my small service area shows need and. I would also like to say representative Vaught asked the question whether any two two year schools were able to offer a four year degree on their own and the answer that she gave was no none of them were able to confer degrees I would say that that is simply hi we have a completes and I love doctor Welch be adopted but I love the but we have a complete monopoly on four year degrees whether you know what they're applied workforce whatever they are to complete monopoly by four year schools and all we're asking for is a pathway that's fair and I say that. It's not actually as I can but a pathway that's fair for these two years to offer a very small percentage of their degrees as four years based on what fits the demographic needs of their area. And you know we talk do you see a president talk about unnecessary duplication of program an effort I mean my colleges are saying my two years are saying you know we we have a need there is no duplication you know my closest college the closest other college to me is University of Arkansas you ACC be in Batesville do they offer a four year degree through the system for for nursing I don't think so so the next closest thing I've got is Jonesborough so you tell me how there's a duplication of need especially in my area when it's you know a hundred plus miles to get that done. And and I would like to say that I did when I said the ten percent was H. L. C. that's what I thought it was apparently this the Carnegie model it's ten percent and I'd be willing to amend the bill to save ten percent and or three degrees and to make it just as specific as possible and because apparently I do based on Dr Markham's testimony I would probably need to be more specific on the Senate and is far as promulgation of rules and given that but they did them that authority so with that said I said no you I'm I'm passionate about this we need more nurses all through the pipeline that's been an advocate from the C. N. A.'s all the way through LPNs bachelors for oriens that we need more of those throughout the entire pipeline in our state so I appreciate the time you've given me today and I would appreciate a good vote thank you all right. We have heard the testimony what's will committee. I have a motion do pass representative brown. Are we have motion discussion on the motion represent Lowery. Thank you Mr chair. Over the last a number of years I've been fortunate to participate in both both the task force and then also sponsoring legislation related to the performance based funding. Senator English and I co chaired a task force that looked at the issue of whether for whatever reason does the state of Arkansas have too many institutions and and what what's the best way for us to be more efficient in terms of the operation of these these institutions we chose the task force chose to not make any recommendations because at the end of the the task force's period we knew that the out outcomes based or performance based funding model was coming before the legislature and I think we're still Very fresh in that approach as I told the task force you we should let the performance based funding of create the organic changes that we had started seeing around the state we had two year colleges that had we knew had been very resistant to being part of a system where you would have those efficiencies but one by one those two some of those two year colleges and include upon the mon those Klasky tack Richmond community college the the I believe the. I can't remember the name of the college out towards the eastern part of the state I think we still need to let that process would work its way in and I know my argument that I'm making here seems to say or or fortify that conversation of saying well this is independence against systems it's not it's about efficiencies and I think you know it's already been mentioned that there are some courses where there's collaboration using online knows representative makes can speak to how much money we have put into in the last three years broadband for this very purpose so that there can be those collaborative efforts using online training to be able to get training to those parts of the state where there may be need to stock currently met and so you know I think that they're just a number of things that need to take place first before you make such a dramatic change in so I'll I'll be voting no against the bill. No on the bill any other debate. Seeing no other debate. All in favor say aye. All opposed no. No seven. Thank you for visiting today represent Mayberry you've been very patient over there we will hear one more bill today all the other bills rollover to Tuesday. You're here for any other bill it will be Tuesday. Just right here is represent Mayberry's bills back page agenda twenty six eighteen twenty six. Have an amendment on that bill. Do. I have a motion of amendment I have a motion to the do pass on the amendment is very simple. I will letter by look at it before we call it but we do have a motion already. Good with amendment. All favor say aye. He opposed no all right you're recognized to present your bill as amended and I see you have you have helped on their I do if you will go ahead and of recognize yourself that will be your bill testify when you want to okay thank you Mr chairman thank you members this is a nursing bill but it is not controversy all let me tell you when Julie Mayberry sits at the table on a school nursing bill and I have the support of a a E. a you know this is a good bill we've come to agreement okay you can feel good about passing this bill today we have worked with the department of education as well on this bill and I have Jackie McEwing representing the school nurse association here many of you may recall that way back in twenty thirteen we started a public school advisor health services advisory committee to look at what we can do to improve the health care of our kids in schools and the committee met for several years coming up with many different ideas and one of those things was to create better communication between school nurses the school board and the state department of education and one of the things that we we started doing was creating a way to collect data so we knew what was going on in our schools the state department of education got this data and we realize that the school boards for not getting that information so we passed a bill along with this advisory committee to make sure that our school boards we're getting this information as well well the main part of this bill. And the reason why this is important is the other bill died it Sunset so this bill the main part of this is that it will make sure that the school nurses report to the school board's information about what they're doing every day information about the children that they're seeing how they're helping kids creating that that Avenue of communication so when the school board books that how they can best serve their students that they gather this information and this is the key this is really important when we started back in twenty thirteen we had about seven hundred and fifty school nurses statewide. Because of this collective information we kept giving to the Department of that into the school boards we now have thousand and eighteen school nurses. Many of you know I've come here trying to make sure that we have a school nurse on every campus those bills have failed that's not the bill I'm bringing you today because I'm seeing that it's working by just giving people the opportunity to hear from those school nurses and making it a local decision that yes we need to have more school nurses and think what would happen when this virus hit if we didn't have the numbers that we have now a let Jackie kind of share a little bit of information. Thank you think you're. This is my first time here so I have to get you that you would state your name and who you're with thank you Mr chair my name is Jacqueline thank you and M. S. an R. and I work for the little rock school district first of all I want to thank representative Mayberry for allowing me to be her gas at the capitol today it's been very fascinating I am honored to be here representing school nurses in the great state of Arkansas this past year as representative Mayberry stated has been very extraordinary and I hope now more than ever the importance of school nurses is recognized that that is not what we're reading for today but the school nurses is very much in support of the bill that represented Mayberry is bringing to the table today I think the most important thing is collaboration of school nurses and educators and the school board it to provide the care that we need to take care of our kids and with the information getting ports of the school board the only thing that can benefit as our children in this state so I hope that you will take consideration into this today and I will get back to you representative may very. Refer questions Sir rizin fight you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair. My concern is this sounds like it's going to be adding a lot of paper work to our nurses. Is that going to be taking time away from the students that they're serving instead putting their time to we're doing this extra paperwork. I was just gonna say they're already doing this they're already reporting it to the state department of education but there there was another bill that sunset it and it took out reporting it to the school district many of our nurses around the state actually are still doing that I know in our school district are school nurse still comes every year and they're already doing it but we want to make sure that those school nurses are continuing to do that and that the school board's don't say stop would you agree I would agree with that we have electronic charting systems that can help us gather that data and it's just very easy it's just printing off a piece of paper with that data. Registration number six. It appears today thank you Mr chair. Did I understand that I understand you to say that we're gonna buy passes superintendent with all this information and we're going directly to the school board. Well it's it's just part of the school board meeting the superintendent is there I don't think there's any desire to circumvent US eight. It has to go through them to report it to the state this is not circumventing as a school superintendent in any way now. But it sounded like you know that they are instead of them going to their superintendent with their information you're just going to go directly to the school board even though he's gonna be there are higher all they're doing is providing information they're they're they're telling you the number of students that they see every day that they get fifty to sixty students in their school in their room every day the ex number of students have asthma X. number of students have diabetes these are the number of referrals we've given out to agencies of child abuse that the school board needs to hear that information the superintendent can get that information at any point. Thank you Mr president got for. Thank you Mr chair thank you represent Mayberry I am looking at this section on page two about their professional development for nurses I'm wondering why it's only one school nurse per district is getting that PT and and what the current professional development and opportunities are or obligations are for school nurses. I think that I I don't read it I was just one school nurse and school nurses are we're nurses and registered nurses and LPNs required to receive continuing education every year and so this is just promoting and encouraging these schools and the school nurses health services department to be able to provide the education for nurses continuing education. Make sure recognized. Thank you a question I have is on page one it says that each public school district shall provide a health services program is that something new that we're doing in what would be entailed in the school district during a health services program that. They already have to do that that's in rules I don't know Stacey Smith might want to share we're just putting it into law that's already something that they have to do that might be interested in but that's OK with the chair to learn more about that and. Yeah. Not everybody. Thank you Smith Arkansas department of education so they're already requirements for school districts to have nurses and and health programs within their schools I think that ratio right now is one nurse every seven or fifty students representative Mayberry has pushed for a long time to have an E. at school nurse at each campus and that's not what this bill is doing today it's it's putting in the requirement for the R. N. who is a supervising nurse at each district to attend training each year we do have a state school nurse specialist who does provide training we have nurses at our educational cooperative throughout the state that are funded through past tobacco dollars things like that so we do have the capacity to put to provide the training and the state is in support that each districts are in gets a yearly update on any changes that have been made as far as school nursing and that's all that's as requiring today as far as reporting to the board in here it doesn't say that that that there is already a yearly survey that nurses fill out and report information to the state and in here it doesn't necessarily say that the nurse has to be the person reporting it to the local board it states that the school district has to report what the findings are in that report to their local board and in most cases fell about their school nurse to the board meeting and have a conversation so just follow up on action can you tell me what a health services program is and evidently sounds like you say the schools are already doing that but what is a health services program. So Health Services program would be the nurse providing medical services within the school district okay so just that simple yet okay not like a broad educational program for providing that service or anything like that it's just okay all right thank you thanks for that clarification thank you resentment Mabrey said it was a simple bill. What is. Is it begins you're recognized thank you Mr terribly brief back to the professional development of that continue education are we adding hours or are we just saying part of what your hours requirement will be we want you to have this training is part of that yes. Turn off again yes ma'am this is in supporting what we already have to do for us to keep our licenses in the state of Arkansas. All right any other questions. See the. You do okay representative Paul so now I'm confused if it's already hours that they're having to take them why we put it legislation. To to clarify that we're putting it in it And. Stacey back sorry that we were hit or you do this sorry. So we provide nursing professional development out there is not a requirement for the supervising nurse in the district to attend an update every single year on new policies procedures at dating on school nurse practices there's not a requirement is for that school nurses do have armed for their own license they do have their own requirements follow up follow up. Thank you so then we are adding four hours to this right is that what it was for there wasn't a specific number of hours mentioned okay but we are adding to what they already have to do. For the RN who is the supervising nurse for that district would have to attend this yes so we are adding thank you. Any other questions. All right seeing none. There's no more questions correct. I'm sure any of in anyone the audience like to speak for against the bill. For the bill. Like close for you will. I'm close to appreciate a good vote. I have a motion to past representing me as amended. Any discussion on the motion. Seeing none all in favor say aye. He opposed no. Resolutions you have passed your built in record time thank you thank you thank. All right uh ladies gentleman Tuesday will be our next meeting we do have a special order on Thursday at ten thirty I believe on Thursday represent woods bill and other that we Jr.