Education Committee - Senate

All right chair sees a quorum and welcome to the second meeting of the Senate Education Committee at today M. so members we do have a full agenda there some bills that are going to run and some that are not however there are four bills that are pending fiscal impacts but because it's late in the session unless there's an objection I'm going to go ahead and let those bills run today is there an objection right hearing no objection we will go ahead and allow those these bills that are pending fiscal impact statements to go ahead and run today. All rights and with that we're going to start at the top of the agenda and. And I'm gonna turn the chair over to senator Elliots. I have Senate bill two ninety. Okay let me find my. Ninety one it's just a concurrent. Hello everyone. Yeah. Senator you're recognized. Thank you madam chair members of the committee this is to concurrent amendment that was placed on my Senate bill two ninety one and I'll ask answer any questions. I'm Senator Missy Irvin district eighteen. Thank you for the back of the. it's already been a long day so basically this is an amendment that was requested by members of the House Education Committee and just ensuring data privacy as are applicable by federal state data privacy laws. I'll answer any questions thank you senator urbanists and a member of the committee have a question. Senator Sturch thank you madam chair center and I just wanted to ask. It's it's kind of confusing to me that I guess have you been getting the same mass emails that we all have been about the privacy issues are the concerns of what it when I read the amendment I thought that was what was being addressed that you actually it is more to protect privacy that I did okay. What what I read like an Page two line nineteen through twenty one. Everything that it would be within a community school has to have parental permission before it's even given or administered or enrolled or anything like that anything that they'd be collecting would be more like we do for a free reduced lunch students will know the aggregate total in the school but we don't know by name that's never given to the state does not have passed off fits or anything that's correct yes The Amendment that's engrossed were designed to address some of the concerns however federal for bylaws and the HIPAA laws are very very specific and they are very protective about students identities an so that they just wanted another they wanted language in the bill and so I was happy to accommodate that but yes the emails that you're receiving you don't that is engrossed and this amendment so and you know they just need to read the legislation. All right as any other member have a question or comment. Anybody in the audience when to speak for or against the bill we have do we have a list we have somebody in the audience we have anybody signed up to speak for against the bill I don't have the. Okay we have anybody against the bill. Okay. Okay are you Jennifer come on a please. I just have a seat there by Senator Irvin and when you sit down just percent the red button. If you will introduce yourself to us for the record thank you Jennifer Holmes our Kansans for Education freedom I know you're on a tight schedule I'll read this and be done I'm here today to request the vote no to concur on the minute men and Senate bill two ninety one for community schools The Amendment is the generic statement about following following data privacy law it in no way addresses the concerns that led this bill to be defeated in the house in order to get the amendment there was a detailed list of data privacy requests for this bill all of which were ignored. This bill is based on federal legislation that says community schools can apply for federal funds in in the latest every student to succeed Act version of section of forty eight sixty five it clearly states that the secretary of education that's at the federal level will assist districts and states to get around the existing for but and hip laws in order to collect and share data with state agencies and community school partners and this happens when the district apply for federal funds which this bill will allow. Right now districts can create a community school with local partners that without this legislation and there's little worry about data sharing so why do we need a bill the partners with the federal government well it's for the money it isn't because we need a road map for local success of a community school the Basil district has proven that they didn't need to state law to open the door for them to create something that works they didn't need federal funds to do it either and from all that I've heard about them they've been quite successful so I'm asking you to not concur with this amendment and send it back for tighter and more rigorous language parent should be able to opt in for their children to receive all the wraparound services and they should be entitled to know what kinds of surveys are being done to assess health and health beliefs mindsets and that's the language in the federal bill is mind sets this goes beyond academic empire graphical information it can include information about child's social emotional history disciplinary history medical and mental health history parents do not want all this information is shared across the entire state with every agency there's no way to monitor the data security when it's out there everywhere. So really it allows what would amount to creation of a government dossier on every child in state that's in a public school. My last point collecting and holding massive amounts of data about an individual has an intimidating effect on the individual even if that data is never used in this case the collector of the data S. the force of law behind it this changes the relationship between individuals in government. Republic rests on the idea that the citizen will direct government that cannot truly happen when the government this is in a position of intimidation over the individual so asking you to please send this back for better and tighter language in an opt in for the parents for those wraparound services all right thank you Sir thank you very much thanks for being here and the members of the committee have a question. If not thank you so much for your for your witness to this bill is there anybody else I've got a list if anybody else in the audience signed up to speak for against the bill you can probably find out figure out before I do it. I see no one else if if not Committee but what's your pleasure for this bill senator Ervin all you bet you you can close don't you think well I I again as much as you can respond to yes or no I mean I think on page two at the you know where it says any data required under subdivision to a of this section shall be protected by all applicable federal and state data privacy laws no additional data mining is permitted under this section. I think that's pretty clearly it's not motion to concur right there second. any discussion on the bill. Not all those in favor say aye aye those opposed no. the motion passes thank you thank you thank you madam chair thank you senator Ben you have another bill quiet at which one is that Senate bill five oh one okay so we're going down the list okay. Everybody finds Senate bill five oh one. Senate I do I'll tell you. Members this bill is supposed to have an amendment and I do appreciate but we just didn't get it here in time but I'm with I would like to go ahead and withstand Jordan at with government relations of the Arkansas school boards association had emailed us and then that we just didn't get it here on time but it's really just to help I hear it caught some things but it was late notice and so we we are gonna do that on the house and So why not let me be sure I understand you want to go in the present the bill and if the amendment gets here we're located at it yes I do I can't find the email tend to get the amendments but so I'm gonna go ahead and and run this bill but if we can get the amendments be here by the end of the committee then we could just do that why don't we try to do that and I'll just pull it down for right now and then we'll try to get this amendment if Mister Jordan consent right to The right people then we can get it here Senate Chesterfield I saw your. Yeah yeah yes thank you okay it'll be fine. For. Okay. Okay next bill we have on here is that the I. see. Is this a representative and that here. She's not here yet. She has an amendment. Yes. Senator English centre Chesterfield's. Yes. Yeah. Senate bill six fifty six Senator Chesterfield. Okay we yours was one of the ones that had a fiscal impact Senator Elliot. Madam chair I have agreed to work with the department of education on this bill and so I am looking forward to everything they told me was going to be included in this plan will be included and I want to say that for the record thank you. You go ahead I'll figure this out Senator Elliot Senate bill five sixty four. And she has amendments. Okay. I'm okay so your amendment is to just sponsor so is there a motion to adopt the amendments yeah and second all those in favor say aye. And opposed amendment is adopted you are recognized to present Senate bill five sixty four as amended I thank you madam chair this bill is designed to at least help with some of the learning loss that's occurred as a result of the pandemic because you know we had all kind of. Issues with not many kids being behind to start with but then of course there were so many interruptions in their lives and so I want with the department of education and what for what Arkansas and of course talk with me if you about about this bill all of you who are sponsors and I appreciate your sponsorship. But the whole idea is that we know around the state they are going to be various ways and various various methods we're going to need to use to create an Arkansas tutoring core the idea is like americorps on any other course that respond to a problem will create a tutoring core and there is not a lot of specificity in the bill because we know we need to have the flexibility to if it's Batesville the effects of North Little Rock or for every maybe we need to be in a position where we can use different delivery methods and also respond to the needs and an area so for that reason that's why we are working with the department of education to be sure we can do this rule making rather than putting hard core rules in this slaw and there's a requirement we have the funds already gives twenty five percent I believe it is of the S. R. funds have to be spent for learning loss so that's how this is the legislation that is designed to enable and think carefully about how we do that so I'll take any questions are there any questions yes Senator English from actually I love this I absolutely love it I love it because if the plan. We're going to use some of the dollars the plane and I and I'm I'm all for that hi motion do pass. All right anyone here to speak for or against this bill. Do pass as amended. Yeah. Yes nobody here to speak for against the bill Senator Sturch have a quick question yes you have a question thank you senator it's not that that you know I'm against it or anything so please don't take it that way I am I just wanna make sure that you know before we created something else that we're fully funding the things that we had you and I've talked about like the positive development meant before that was passed ten years ago yes we never fully funded if you know which was meant for after school tutoring programs and enrichment programs for things like that so I guess are we then if Esther funds are paying for something new like this would also then I'll be available to help with other things that we already have on the books or Arkansas is this something temporary and then are you wanting to make it permanent as the other one once or could you can answer sure in my discussions with the department of education and we we talked about this a number of times I may be overstepping my bounds but since we're looking for various ways to deliver these tutoring services it would seem the bill that we passed in two thousand eleven could possibly be one of those delivery services because the the problem we've had of course we didn't have the money out this money is we have about three years I think it's three years somebody has to be sent and we allow in the bill for if if there is a possibility is an able to isn't a plan going forward if there is funds set sights on school district decides to use the money they have you know like the money the ESA fund so we've been wanting them to use for things that we know make a difference and when we set this up we knew that tutoring was probably the most effective affected things we could do so it's not it's not a mandate that this have to keep going past this week three years but it certainly does allow for that. You're welcome are there any other questions members of the committee all right seen none we have a motion do pass as amended and a second all those in favor say aye and oppose ayes have it congratulations you've passed your bill thank you Committee thank you senator hill. Senator Hill you're recognized to present at the six six two members the the bills that were pending fiscal impact statements are sixty sixth out five sixty four six six two and six twenty nine so this is one of them. And mine is one of those And Senator Elliot that we just passed okay you're recognized Senator Hill Ricky Hill district twenty nine. In really this one should not have any fiscal impact whatsoever center this one just a straight for bill with proclamation from the from the governor Pete read this bill it's a pretty pretty simple straightforward bill probably one the most clean cut ones I've seen all year if you ask yourself what's the greatest asset the resources we have in the state of Arkansas right now. We ask ourselves back to her Senator Sturch say this and Senator Elliott as well and even check Senator Chesterfield it's our children the kids that we have the greatest asset that we have in the state of Arkansas in with this what can we do for kids. The one thing I ask you to we can do is say a prayer for all this bill simply says that annually the government proclaim Wednesday the last Wednesday in September which you're recognized as a national day of prayer for students. With that I'll take any questions. Are there any questions Senator Chesterfield yes thank you and manager thank you senator he of the clarification because when I. S. redressing with no mandate he's praying in school but what you're asking us as citizens we do in our own ways to pray for our children. The governor gonna gonna proclaimed as a national day of prayer for Arkansas students so you're asking us as citizens to pray for our children you know right yes okay we're not asking that we stop school for career we're asking that every citizen in this state in his or her own way we're asking for that that is correct that they would offer prayer that's right for the kids in the state that is right in we we actually hope that the the schools will take this up if you read the very last page. That the Division of elementary and secondary educational annually notify public school districts what we're doing on this in that the this is actually a pre and hopefully the school to do that themselves but it does not require that the students not be required to to walk through and that made it it made it easier for me thank you thank. Thank you are there any other questions yes senator Sturch thank you ma'am changes on ask Senator Hill the date last Wednesday in September students would already if there wanted to voluntarily be praying at the flag pole with the not is is not a sure can when the welcome to this is see you at the pole that's nationally recognized same date right but I I'm not sure what the last day okay what day is on the it just lasted out to me I thought oh he did that on purpose but maybe. I put it all that way yeah I did James. Other questions other questions. I close. All right as everyone here to speak for or against this bill. City. I do not see anybody signed up so Senator Beckham had another question. Now he had a motion are you closed yes I'm close okay already you have a motion to pass and is their second their second all those in favor say aye and oppose ayes have it congratulations you have thank you your bill. All right sounds good thank you senator I think Senator Clark had are you here to run a bill Senator Clark. Okay. If you'll just come to the end of the table and and I think you have something that you. Senator just filled. Of. SP five seventy six I am going to make the extraordinary request that you suspend the rules and here SP five seventy six it is the bill you passed out for meal a week ago. Of and we thought and Amendment for for the department of education has already been made and it had not so that amendment has been made it's been re referred back to you there's no known opposition to it we believe it reads. Pretty much like to read before but there was wording that they thought needed to be improved. Yes senator Chesterfield may I ask that you. Department of education the Amendment was theirs okay. As you want to take care. We already have and the and the the the we'll I don't want to a not get this done for the judges and superintendent at Senator English so could. Quickly refresh my memory what this is about a yes it's about truancy and for virtual students of the they have a problem currently of with the. Determining with the student's true or not in this clears it up it gives of a Avenue for determining that a student who is virtual is true it is not actually. Okay attending so we would need a motion to suspend the rules to allow for this committee today to consider as Senate bill five seventy six is there a motion from the member of the committee okay Senator Chesterfield and second all those in favor say aye and oppose ayes have it. Okay mass. Okay is there any. It's already in. Okay there's a motion. A yes. Was the amendment. I don't have the amendment now do when department of education to make the. Some of them I have a may be to explain it. It looks I mean from a me pulling that that basically it's a new bill the amendment the engrossed amendment is is the entire bill. So we would just need if you can just. That your name for the record and you're recognized to explain the amendment which is now the bill yes and I the federal department of education the and and I don't have a copy of what was there before that and what we did is tried to just and distinctly get at the the issue which will which is to be able to address the truancy of for virtual students so it's making sure that districts have a policy for attendance for any of their students who are learning remotely we had a few concerns with the other language not about what it was doing that just about and because virtual programs are going to be a little bit different from district to district or the requirements for students could be slightly different we wanted to just make sure that the bill was more about let's make sure we have a policy let's make sure those policies are enforceable whether or not the student is a remote learner or on campus. Okay. Are there any questions. Members of the committee. Thank you taking pictures or no no I have a question. Read the bill or. What it was like the others that I'm trying to trying to read the bill because it's I know we're here in this today and we absolutely is a completely different building what it was originally so there's no consequences for students not we're not putting a code any consequences for students not attending virtual class. is that correct you're just saying that school districts can make rules. It would it would just being insurer it would be ensuring that a district has a policy for students whether they're on campus where they run that and and that those policies can be enforced and would be enforced just in the same way. So there's may is the my concern. The department may promulgate rules to carry out the intent of this section. For the last bill was very clear on what the rules were and what the so I think it would go to and I would have to check and see if we if the department's rules on attendance policies now districts have their policies so the the districts districts have policies the department doesn't develop district policies the department would enforce the law which outlines attendance in within the larger section of code. During the COVID pandemic to the Department. Kept the authority to. Forced districts to go remotely correct. Order to have students go virtual all that districts were allowed to have a virtual program they were not required to have a virtual program that they were allowed to have a virtual program so the required to have one of the available to switch to needed it we did not require every did every district opted to have a virtual program so that students could continue learning and districts were required to have a plan if they needed to shift to remote learning but that would have been for the entire district as a response to covid but districts also developed policy or opinion to place their virtual program options for students who may be in did not feel comfortable being on campus during scope in this bills or. Really tough subject for me because it's. I had educator of educators superintendent. They didn't understand the rules that came down from the board of education they assume that they had to provide and give the option of everyone. And as to your point if a student feel comfortable they could do virtual learning but they also had no recourse no way of making sure the students were keeping up and now we're really taking kids close to the the policy of of requiring people to attend school. In this state standpoint there this bill is intended to address those concerns that and districts were not able to enforce those attendance policies for remote learners like they would have had the student on campus so this bill would require them to have the policy for students who might in the future if they district has been approved And program for students to learn virtually. And how may Senator Beckham I did not get into the weeds is S. and how they wanted to do it. But the judges that we were consulting with were happy with the amendment we had one that was most involved locked it better the other way but said that this would work and the superintendents were also happy with the amendment so what about school teachers are they on. We actually be honest the school teachers were never in on this discussion this came from this K. this came it was judges and superintendents who came to me and said we have a problem of in trying to enforce truancy what of because we had schools trying to say that kids were truant when in fact there was no way to say that they were truant but they are trusting your truck because they were doing their work and not doing your work doesn't make you true and so they're trying to establish some policies. That they could do that and there they were I consulted with a number of judges in the superintendents and again no one disagreed and everyone seemed to think that this would be helpful of and being able to do that. Would would be helpful would fix the problem help fix the problem because that's the again the what my meetings with them was about fixing the problem and I never have voiced opinion or try to form an opinion about fixing it but they seem to think that this. It's going to be up to a school whether they such rules that can be enforced in a court or. Okay but this does allow help the school and the department to set rules that can be enforced in the corps and the Department certain best practices for those rescinded on best practices to some degree the school board association assist districts with policies so and I would think that this would be something that they would work on as well and we Inc in our work this year with and DHS and DCFS this was an issue that they were finding a lot of schools is that there were not those clear policies that could be enforceable so we will we will work to provide all the information and we we've been working with districts and will continue to do so as part of their applications to have a digital program this year they have to to submit that they have discipline policies me attendance policies for virtual students thank you. Yes Senator Elliot. Yes Thank you for for the languages says the department of education I may promulgate rules if a school district fails to have its own rules this I give you the authority to create rules that they have to follow a well and that is in not every school is going to have a virtual program with students learning remotely so and that is so there's not gonna be a penalty for a school that doesn't have a and Senate policies for this if it's not something that would apply anyway and. So I think that the answer to your question though is if they're going to have an approved virtual program next year they will have to have policy not worried in the bill promulgation that will be and and have that you have to show me the rules yes and and for the state board to approve them to have a virtual programming option next year okay thanks. All right are there other questions by members of the committee. All right C. N. nine is there anyone here to speak for against this bill. C. ninety cause for your bill I am and I appreciate your hearing all right motion do pass as their second second all those in favor say aye. And opposed as habit congratulations you've passed your bill thank you madam chair thank you members of the committee thank you. At. Okay I have another bill we are waiting for an amendment on my other bill but I'm going to I've got and. I'm working with representative and it on her amendments as well into the there needs to be one more amendment I think that's coming for her bill as well M. six. Yes. The. Yes. Okay yes. Wardlaw Warren I'm waiting for an amendment for five oh one it's on its way we had one but it was not the right one. Okay so I will run six twenty nine. One of the ones on the list of there's no objection that. That we're running in that right centre. Per S.. Thank you. And members of the committee what this bill does some sorry Senator Missy Irvin district eighteen. Okay. It's three seven members yes this does this will have a fiscal impact and that I'm going to go ahead and and and run it because we're getting late in the session and we've got folks that can probably give you what that's going to be but what this bill does is that is exactly what the title says that allows a school district that is experienced a decline in average daily membership to receive both declining enrollment funding and special needs isolated funding this was a bill that was brought forward by a lot of our schools that are falling into this bucket because of what they've experienced during covid and they have asked for us to consider allowing them to receive both of those funding mechanisms and I'm I know that the department can answer more questions about this I will say that the Arkansas and public school resource center is supportive of the bill and others add that are here can speak for the bill and are supportive of this legislation. I'm happy to answer any questions okay any members have a question a senator Beckham. D. thank you do you have a. VOL four one is going to yes I think it's probably gonna be around two million but the department might be able to answer that question probably a little bit better than I can. This includes. The previous year's numbers since we had students or home school or I spoke to a lot of superintendents of the lost kids made and make. I don't know their time messages on balloons eleven go or what but there's no after a lot not a lot of effort made to contact to find out where these kids were yeah well yeah and I I don't it does this going to include those numbers as well the the decrease from nineteen twenty two that in twenty twenty one I let me also departments if they can come up and give the answers to those questions because I would rather you get clear answers. Johnny Kita part of education you're recognized thank you so yes we we estimate this is about based on previous years is about two million dollars annually the What this bill does currently there. Are isolated districts they have been designated as isolated districts for quite some time and it's a formula it's based on school square miles of the district to the density copulation density the students and that sort of thing but back in two thousand three two thousand four when adequacy was being are the response to that tweet related decisions being developed there was determined that these districts could either get their isolated special needs isolated funding or declining enrollment not both. In this. Simply by the. Replacing or without end it allows these districts to give both of the funds so it it doesn't change anything with respect to the declining enrollment that they get except that they can get their isolated specially das weighted funding as well as the declining enrollment funding that they might be eligible for. Senator English you have a question about how many schools are we talking about. school districts. Thank you Tony eight twenty eight I was gonna say thirty something but that the number is has diminished over the years so so now it's twenty. It has diminished over the number of it was over thirty one time but as districts as other consolidations have taken place and other closures have taken place than. Aaron and Brian is one example the most recently that you might remember okay all right thank you senator Chesterfield. Thank you madam chair in these districts or any district's gonna is gonna have a deleterious impact on other districts if we provide this funding to these districts no Senator okay so it. This only the only applies to this subset of districts okay so we're not going to hurt anybody else by helping them we will not okay thank you. Are there other questions Senator. No issues with court rulings from two thousand four. No and I to be honest I can't even remember why I mean there was a lot of uh. Horse trading in and negotiating back then of how we need to deal with this the issue of isolated funding has been around since before like you and there were a number of rules senators and representative representatives at the time they wanted to protect this funding because of the very unique nature of these districts that they represented So this these these funding categories of isolated funding special needs isolated funding they were protected but at the same time there was an effort to make sure that. I guess for lack of better word maybe we didn't over fund by making them eligible for other streams of money this is one of those those. Corks that over time really I guess they would argue has become not as relevant as it was nearly twenty years ago but that you know what and in this again this is not a part of bill and make sure that we're very clear on that because it does have an impact on this state budget that was not part of the governor's balanced budget however we're not overly concerned because his history of of this distribution has been typically less than two million dollars. Close total. For each year for both both funds not just for the special needs isolate for this this isolated from. Under the six twenty six oh four. Yeah it it it's kind of an orphan on the other page or. From. any the schools the does the school district the no longer considered part of this did that the that happen because or absorbed and other school districts like sport yes or or campuses were closed and I referred to parent that's one I think maybe the most recent example of where that was part of a I was part of the Bryant school district in because parent when it was an independent school district was an isolated district when it became annexed to to Bryant Brian got funding but when these campuses close then the eligibility for this funding goes away and so there are a few of those that that have taken like in that situation that campus was closed so Bryant dropped off the list so on my specific situation in my district Sparkman school district. I don't know Senator that they are actually They qualify as an isolated on. I'm not Mr Mr query is on the list to testify so that might help with I'm just confirm the sales department in that situation that that doesn't fit because they're not isolated okay. All right are any further questions for the secretary okay you're recognized and such thank you mention a city kia it's come a few times back home. C. ridge and course the court Charlotte campus that was elementary thank you said they sense close that campus stands there for they don't you know have that isolated funding anymore that to everyone I guess I'm going to ask is at that time I remember the superintendent shared with me that isolated funding can only be used for certain things it's not categorized or subparagraph I guess I would say that like you know average daily I get that you know they get fifty percent of you know what it was as far as crying room it goes within this special needs isolated can only be used for things like transportation costs and maybe some facilities that can you it refresh my memory what special well actually it's it's for it's for those expenses that are are unique to those districts because of their era their characteristic of of of being isolated so a lot of that I mean there's there's but there's there's there's isolated funding there is House special needs isolated funding and then there's another layer under that special needs isolated transportation okay so it is a sub category yes you know they're they're different subcategories in eligibility is. Different for each one right now which is why on on when I saw that when the bill was filed and said and I thought great we don't get the we have to get into all that special and isolated funding complicated because we were sort we mainly forcing that sounds to me like superintendents have to choose between which one was more beneficial we take that declining enrollment over here to take specialized here and in most cases most years your special needs isolated was going to be more then then you're declining in law and Yeah I think the way we handle it is that you get the greater of U. K. you get one or the other you can't have both if you're going to get the greater and and spell are declared Roman was greater than that's what you get in this case I think probably. Close to all of these districts that declining enrollment would be significant this year K. thanks thank you I is is there anybody in the audience who want to speak against the bill since we had. For anybody wants against the bill okay this query you want to speak for the bill you may come up come pouring Q.. Yes introduce yourself for the record please. The query Director Arkansas real education social ation I'd like to thank Senator Irvin for running this bill and a representative Cozart in the House for co sponsoring the bill. I have this as a Secretary key mentioned this bill will take care of an issue that has been long overdue for the these smallest most geographically isolated and most financially fragile districts in the state. When if they are not eligible for declining enrollment and they lose ATM they lose foundation funding they lose isolated funding special needs isolated funding they lose categorical funding so it's just a loss all the way around and these districts primarily our small districts they might have one English teacher and her whole high school so they really can't adjust by cutting staff because of standards so it's it's just a financial burden for them this this issue if passed will take care of that and for a year obviously to allow for some adjustments so. Right does anybody have any questions of support. Senate Beckham you're recognized you know that I mean students to somebody else. that's a really good question I would yes will it would just be off of off the top of my head but maybe what couple thousand kids maybe. Four four five thousand I don't. I'm not sure that's I didn't anticipate that question that's a great question thank you this structure how much more money per student were presented to the schools. To prevent significant yeah at the the announcmenet is figured of course per pupil just like every other declining enrollment formulas figured so um if they lose twenty kids they basically get reimbursed for ten or twenty kids for two year average of basically be reimbursed for ten just like any other school district puts them on the same playing field as every other district in the state. Are are there any further questions. But not I thank you very much and there is one more person Allen Yarborough's. Your come forward. Are you speaking for the bill. Ison has. A full disclosure this is one of my superintendent. Also he's going to go against the bill. He's for the. Thank you yes ma'am I will be clear why I'm here. If you just introduce yourself for the record please. Superintend search county school district welcome I'd like to first I think this committee for the opportunity to be able to address the situation and Senator one for bring this to your attention I am I am the superintendent the school district it is five hundred fifty square miles if you're familiar with Searcy County my school district compasses most of Searcy County and also takes in some of a beer and county as part of our districts so obviously we run fourteen bus routes of we are in those fourteen bus routes no that's about a thousand miles a day that we run to transport our state so transportation is a huge piece of what we do in our school district certainly we we use our isolated funding you know to to cover that cost but but I think listening to the committee your questions you know that moneys in our budget it's it's there we expect that acylated money to be there every year so that we can continue to operate our school district you know a fashion best serve our students when we lose students obviously you know there's there's no other support mechanism there to help us offset that cost because we we do not get the Klein Roland like all the other school districts in the state do when they lose students so certainly in in our case of this is a very important issue we're down about sixty students from where we ended school last year and so that's a substantial amount of money for district my size to try to overcome so that is why the date to I'm here to very much support this bill in in helping us offset that calls for next year. Thank you very much and members of the Senate Chesterfield you're recognized for a question I guess I missed it what is your school district source of councillors again for your county school okay. December Leslie's yes ma'am okay and I know the bakery the. So I senator that you're recognized for a question you senator Nelson sixty students from last year's. What were can you account for that's that's that's a good question and and I will say that there is several several aspects to which we have law students we have lost several students the home schooled about forty of those sixty have have found home school since pandemic of you know and and and I think that the biggest reason for that is that you know parents were afraid of what the you know what the school year was going to bring to their students you know being in a public school so that that's where the majority of those students we've identified they went to. Have you done by the other twenty. Various various of reasons moved you know moved out of our community do you you do have an answer for every student though there's not any there. Yes Sir for the most part yes Sir. Okay. Any further questions anybody. Have not thank you Mr Elmer thank you thank you. Seeing is anybody else has not signed up want to speak for against the bill if not senator you're recognized to close for your bill thank you also just the Arkansas public school resource center and support that the bill's sponsor here but just I know time is running long that this is this is really a very very important bill to particularly my district but I think a lot of districts in the state of Arkansas that have these school districts that are struggling and that are very isolated and their needs are very different You know it it's at you know it's it's interesting when you drive across know the terrain of Arkansas and play a football game in Elkins you know Elkins is way over here and and and some of these schools are kind of really in the middle of nowhere and they struggled but they do a phenomenal job and at what they do I think it's important to keep our small schools I hate to see schools close I hate to see teachers lose their jobs because that is a connection that that student loses with their teacher whether coach and and so I'm a big proponent of small schools I'm a big proponent of rules schools I grew up here in Little Rock I went to schools here but we made a conscious effort to move to a small town and and educate our kids there so I think there's just great value to the schools and I appreciate a good vote to help keep them open I thank you senator Yep motion motion to. Their second. all those in favor I. Those opposed no the motion passes thank you you're welcome and I think to have my amendment okay is this five oh one it is the fourth. What's your bill. I'm. Okay. Right. Okay all right I really want to thank everybody for Senator Missy Irvin district eighteen and I do have somebody here come with with at to help us present this bill. So this this bill is really dealing with corporal punishment and the ability to limit that or with a child who has an individual education program The Amendment was requested ands and we were happy to oblige and I'm just very thankful to Taylor Lloyd for working so fast to get the Fifth Amendment because this occurred I think on. Thank you. Is there a second. All rights movement Senator said amendment all those in favor say aye aye those opposed no motion passes thank you I'm gonna turn this over to Laura Callum's and she's going to talk about this bill. Thank you madam chair and thank you members of the committee Lara Callum's I'm with Arkansas advocates for children and families I'm a child advocate and I just wanted to explain why we think this bill is important I'm in twenty nineteen the legislature passed act five fifty seven which prohibited the use of corporal punishment on children with certain severe disabilities it was a narrow list and what we can get past that including the and that included children who are intellectually disabled non ambulatory nonverbal or artistic in the bill that you have before you today would just ensure that all children with an identified learning disability would be protected from the use of corporal punishment as well the definition would be children with an individual education plan as established under federal law so children have in special education I'm so for example it would add children who have hearing or visual impairments emotional disturbances speech and language impairments traumatic brain injuries there's a list of thirteen categories under federal law and but just having one of these disabilities doesn't automatically qualify a child for an interval individual education plan under federal law they have to have the disability and as a result of the disability needs special education to make progress in school so I'm thank you senator Elliott for the work that you did in twenty nineteen on ACT five fifty seven and we appreciate Senator Irvin for helping us expand on that app today if you're willing so these are the children who would be protected by the the Bill not all those kids are at risk of being spanked at school but we believe the students who have I E. P. plans as required under federal law we believe that they should be protected from this form of punishment the students often cannot control their behavior in the same way as their peers without. Disabilities they sometimes cannot understand the connection between their behavior and the consequences of the corporal punishment so a large body of research in Arkansas and across the country shows the corporal punishment is ineffective in improving student behavior and school climate that it causes emotional damage to children through adulthood and is administered disproportionately to students with special needs so that's why we hope that you'll consider this bill today thank you. And the members have a question. The Senate is starting interest Chesterfield got his hand up first okay you got to try to send Chesterfield okay. Thank you. Yes thank you. I guess I'm trying to figure out we just pass something a week or so. What. No that was M. it and in school suspensions and expulsions. This is corporal punishment. This is I'm trying this so yup read. This is. At law on this issue. I'm not as convinced of it is you are but I'm in awe trying to all I contested races. So. In this committee. Grants. Tell the whole story. I don't know I I can imagine center field remind to use all right of center. But I wouldn't is yes ma'am okay let's have order otherwise I'm gonna have to spank everybody and. I might enjoy this is taking so long. I Senator Sturch you have the next question thank you to at and I understand it you know we have past several different things regarding suspension or corporal punishment or child restraints anything in and I guess that's why larger question is it seems like we just keep taking small bites at the apple instead of talking about discipline reform we just keep taking it here and taking it herein team here I guess what troubles me about this is it does sound openly brought to me I have to sign off on five oh four is and I have to be an IEP meetings all the time and I can tell you from personal experience just because you have an IP doesn't mean that those children should and you know follow the some of the same displaying practices that the rest of students do in fact that's usually what we are taught in special education classes is is trying to make them you know as uniform or as you know with the kids as much as possible and and I understand where you're coming for as far as if it's you know certain things where they they can't comprehend or that they are not you know on the same page with kids but license and that's to me very broad as far as if it's just someone who's in there for speech therapy or or something like. You know I don't I just hear from parents against you know who I know that they have stricter discipline practices at home and we do it school and so I I guess that was my thing is are we allowing in any flexibility then for the parent if the parents still wanted to you know allow corporal punishment at school or they still sign the forms that they can do it or if we pass it the way it is now we're basically overstepping a parent and saying no just because they have an IP we're not going to do this as does that make sense or am I rambling. Well I'm if you've got up from from our perspective we would not be overstepping the parents rights because they have those rights at home we would be talking about what happens in the school and so we think that those two things are are separate and we think that the research shows that this is the way to go in and far as far as incremental Improve what we see is in an incremental improvement in the policy that that is what we want we would like more more children to be able to be protected by this well currently what I mean is it do they not currently though as a parent have the option as far as a freshman at school that's and that's what I'm saying not like I said they they may have practices at home they may want those prices to be the same at school like if my child gets in trouble you will send him to the office or you have my permission you know for whatever and the way I read it like this just because you have an IP under IDA then no matter what that disability may be how severe how moderate we're kind of over step in the bounds at least that's the way I take it that. Would I will let me see if I understand something I thought I heard you say that just happen I ET in and of itself does not exempt you from corporal punishment. It would have to also be in special education yes but but that they might have whatever the issue is. May or may not be a reason that your exact what would you like and what you said sure it was that just having a disability doesn't qualify you for protection with an I. E. P. M. on under federal law but that as I understand it the way this bill as written it would protect you from corporal punishment having ninety so we are we would be just a little more strict about it not as strict as at not as strict as most states I mean Arkansas that's one of the minority of states that allow any kind of corporal punishment so I don't think that we would get around this is I'll bring a bill in the size but have no more. When satisfy your point that would. Senator Sturch all right from the start you have another question I'm just trying to get some clarity a okay I does anybody else have a question. Okay Senator Beckham would you be open to adding parental. Importer. Me not looking at it I have a I probably can't final arbiter on that I'm filling in for someone who's family member has that is amino compromise so I can get back to you yeah. With I own but if if you'd be open to it I'd like to see the the store also at least conversation about it yeah I think I think we can have a conversation about that that's not a problem I mean I think the reason you know. I'm I mean I guess I could say this I'm I'm a disciplinarian with my own children but and I had a problem with that you know with it being that stand up to the school however I also don't know what that person brings to the table when they're administering that corporal punishment and when I say that I talk about my own myself because you know sometimes we as adults you walk a fine line and as far as like. Disciplining your child right and and and sometimes you know it can you. And so I know sometimes that I would might bring something to that instance that maybe not shouldn't be there and I what I mean by that is I don't know what somebody who is exercising that corporal punishment on my child is bringing with them as far as a motivation or an experience of life that they may have gone through that might and I don't mean this because I don't know if this happened or not but that they bring with them and it influences how they deliver that corporal punishment does that make sense and so I do hear you that it's important I think that parents and they do can they can say they can opt in or opt out and in and we can go to and have that conversation I just. When when I looked at this and I think about those kids that I was a substitute teacher for in special education and I think about this one kid in particular and he and I want to tell the story because I think it's important. I I substitute for about two weeks in the classroom and all of a sudden he was there one day. And he missed about two or three days and then comes back and. I so we're work you and that is I was in the hospital well what happened well my mom's boyfriend shot me in the arm. Yes it just went a whole other level for me and you know and I kid struggled and really just had no home life whatsoever and and in his case there wouldn't be a parents and his parent would have used against them and what is that yeah you know what you should just I hate to even say that but I know where he came from and so I hear you and I do believe that we as parents have that role but I also know their kids out there that just don't have those parents where they have parents that allow all their. Boyfriend to shoot their child's. That's just the reality of the situation and I can get around that you know does bother me so much and that kid ends up graduating and working at Walmart and I helped him get a job and he's working now with our correctional facilities and you know just but it broke my heart to think that you know he didn't have a mom to step in to protect him. So what are we a point where there are no further questions and registered and what you're willing to have a conversation about it yes by the consternation that that's where I will not really sure okay out is there anything the orient who want to speak for against the bill. If not Senator Irvin you're recognized to close for your bill thank you I just as forget that all right. Motion. It says that as amended okay motion do pass as amended the second all those in favor I. Those opposed no the motion passes thank you thank you members. Under duress actually. I sent a Senator English you yes. So you know in a way that kind of what she's talking about sounds a lot like Jonathan Dismang is built on what happens with kids and what was the and on the and in their lives sure no less okay we are and what we're talking about here senator been here's a couple that all right senator Chesterfield. Enemy to say this I don't think we ought to be engaged in just be non kids I'm not. I do believe that teachers ought to have some in this state as in others some recourse I totally understand Senator Dismang Israel actually understand this one. But we're not putting in place those things allow teachers to be able to have effective discipline plans. I don't see that maybe I'm missing it. But the lack of of of respect that I see in the classroom many times when I'm there for the teacher. The lack of respect for rules. If it's a bridge too far for me sometimes because I did this for thirty years in the classroom is a regular classroom teacher. And I tell junior high school which is an age that is particularly challenging. for a lot of people. If we're going to continue to do this and I can do whatever you all connect with because I'm never going back classroom. Not as a teacher. I can be with all of it but you must give our teachers something in that tool box that says this is how you deal with children who are difficult. Otherwise we're going to continue to see declining test scores. We're going to continue to see a disproportionate number of children especially those of color being put out of schools. I see nothing in any of this that speaks to those concerns of mine. In until we do some of this that's what I am saying this great Einstein generation. I'm seeing them shooting each other up. I'm seeing so many of the things that are going on in society that it troubles me. And we keep talking about it and I am as much of a bleeding heart as anybody but we need to give some tools in this toolbox and will allow people to be successful in schools. And that's it for me thank you. Thank you I appreciate that and that's one of the reasons I'm I love the smell the ROTC programs that we have in certain schools and and I think we need to. I agree with you senator Sasse felon I I don't disagree it's been different there are difficult situations that arise in the school and I think it's during the interment something that our committee relation talk about and focus with when we go and visit schools which is what our objective will be. Senator back on to to serve Chesterfield point have you ever looked at the Your challenge program with a National Guard it is usually within. Yeah. No it I've spoken at one of the graduations of the youth challenge program in it your cheese correct we don't have enough kids going into it and we need to do a better job of getting them there all right are there any other bills to come before this committee today yes senator Beckham thank you sorry. What bill number is this. Eighteen thirty two on the back okay. House Bill eighteen thirty you're recognized Sir Charles Beckham District twelve pretty easy and a discrimination bill that's just prevents students from in discriminated for expressing religious viewpoints. Eighteen thirty house bill eighteen thirty. Hold on let members find that. Okay are there any questions from members of the committee on this bill. I have a question yes senator Elliots and I'm sorry Senator Sturch Senate Beckham I know that that you're running this and. And somebody somewhere thinks there there is a problem license could you just talk to me about that why of this bill. I don't know I don't personally know of any size the ticket or issues we're this come up but I. It was brought to me by representative Dotson and he's he's. Representative Dotson did not indicate to any particular issue somewhere no the represent Dotson alluded to the very somewhat bill being passed in Texas and Those the the genesis of it is somewhat bills such as that being passed their. Yeah I'm sorry the the the only thing that bothers me about this is that comes you know with the suggestion there is some discrimination against students for express expressing their viewpoint and I'm just not aware of that happening I just want people to get the impression that our schools of some some House question expression that that may be happening I just haven't heard of that and I just wondered if there was a user I don't know of any. Any single or issues. Okay that's all I thank you I am. On page three of the bill. On lines twenty three through twenty six it actually states in the statutes that the institute would be the people that would. Prepare and present a legal defense of this bill. Is there at I was just a request that they would. Okay I'm just I don't think I've ever seen that before. Do we know who these people are. Sure somebody does I don't know who they are. What did you at what point Page three lines twenty first career institute. I'm just not familiar with first liberty institute I don't know who that is. Right I just I just have not seen that in legislation before a that's all. What. I have no issues forms down until we get some answers from. But please give me questions. Assessed way yes ma'am okay well I mean I had I have a problem with the attorney general's office I mean and I'm not sure I mean I think that they can probably do that anyway I just don't know why it would be necessary to include that language in the bill. At I mean that's just a question I would ask Senator Chesterfield. I'm with you on that line we are actually putting into law approval of some group that we don't know about making decisions about education I just don't think we've done that before and I would just be removed I'm also concerned as we talk about Do you want any of the following contacts the doctors from discrimination if I am giving one assignment. And it has nothing just you point at all. It is acting in injected religious viewpoint and in the context of a. Am I going to be allowed the integrates you as being non responsive to the assignment. Yeah. Are you referring to lines for down on page three. The public school's student express his or her religious viewpoint if any of the following context without discrimination based on religious content if any and homework classwork supposed has nothing to do revision and all of a sudden we got somebody proselytising about something that has nothing to do with the assignment. What we did I think it's so as to the I mean it reasonable starts to be about the same time to the. The base without discrimination if I decide as a classroom teacher at this is an appropriate part of the homework assignment. You're saying to me that I cannot because it can be viewed as discriminatory on my part if I do this as an inappropriate interjection into the homework assignment that I've given that that is a part of the problem that I. It make any sense. Yeah. Yes it that's that's particularly troubling because now we're giving people the opportunity to proselytize about something that's not that has nothing to do with what their proselytising about it at the end of the day if I say I'm UAF is because you just because you would get bird walk in this and you know you can put in there about whatever religious beliefs you are you're very welcome mass and and I'm I decided to give you an S.. Then I can be viewed as discriminating against you because of your religious beliefs that's what's troubling that's another part is troubling to me. I'm Senator Sturch and then senator Elliots. Thank you madam chair I'm looking at page two lines three through five if I following the requirements public school district shall adopt a policy to ensure that public school district does not discriminate but this is B. eliminate any actual or perceived affirmative school sponsorship or attribution to those district of a public school students of expression religious viewpoint that that word and perceived is what's getting me how do we know what's perceived in the public or how we know how someone perceives something beforehand the and so I I don't know if this is aimed at certain if this is Texas language or this is aimed at certain things or if I'm just reading it wrong but it is kind of a thaw that's a that's pretty hard burden to fill is a school district has to figure out what's actual or perceived that may be something you could ask the sponsor well it's it's the pursuit parts going to be one you're notified does perceive that what right and that's you can. Possibly when someone's going to perceive something. As being against a religious viewpoints or press of or discriminated discriminatory against their right it says the policy has to eliminate any perceived I mean I could get it if you're not going to allow the Gideon's to come ons you know campus or something like that but you know what that's an actual thanks and I it just seemed right to me at least the way I was reading it but I didn't know so I appreciate. Senator Elliot. Senate I you know I because I know you need to give us specifics as much as possible to a representative Dotson and I'm talking about the part that is the hallmark the class work and so forth as as a high school English teacher we did you know I had the research paper grind and. It actually got to a point I had to specifically Put in the metrics that you may not use your whatever your your religious belief or your book of believes. In a in a research paper where it's not about that that topic And. Somebody might come up with a thesis statement that says you know it's it's a immoral to kill people that might be that the statement and there were students who thought they could just for example I'm a believer there believer and what I would have to say to them because to them it bait all kind of since they could just cut that DO Jordan just say the barber says is wrong and that it that that's how we knew what to can be and so I would have to really make it clear to them I as a teacher I'm not qualified to judge the Bible. So we're going to have to agree a whatever the book was we're going to have to agree that. You have to use something that is reasons fact know something that can be arguable because if you're not both the Bible in this state we're not gonna be able to argue that that so I had those kind of situations a lot and to the point that. I had students you know you have been in school they they they would they would they would try that and I had situations the hardest situations I had I had to say you have an F. on this paper because you deliberately used up what I said you could not use and we all agree to these rules and then I'm in a position of having to try to explain to parents that and parents who will come in thinking and feeling the same way as their child and I understand that except. This is you know these are the rules in this classroom I'm not here to get into anybody's religion and those are some really hard times for teachers but kids knew what they were doing they they had the rules and they just thought they try it and sometimes I do get backed up by their parents and that made it even even harder so. If you would just share that with them if you want to talking about they'll be fine because you know the whole point for me as a teacher is not to get into that business. Right thank you also on just one moment Senator Chesterfield on page three I would also look at lines fifteen and sixteen. Against other conventional had a golf Kagel topics as identified by a public school district that might be another area where you might need to define not. Closely I don't know. Senator Hester filled. Thank you on line nine eight nine and ten on page two. The establishment of a limited public forum for public students school student speakers at all public school leaving at which a public school students may speak publicly. At. It's a bridge too far for me. A. There may be some public speaking events for instance if we're putting on a student council program not everybody's allowed to speak. We have chosen certain speakers for the dance but you have to have the establishment of a public forum at public schools. For the students to speak at all public school evenings and which a public school student may speak publicly it's a bridge too far. It's a bridge too far thank you. Okay any other questions. Center back on the happy to pull down or if the committee wants to make a motion I'd be happy to entertain a motion as well okay. I think I would I would advise pulling it down and trying to work on the language but that's my opinion. Apple don't. Okay. Okay you're the best center back and down there reminded me and being so sweet and kind to me okay you're the best. Is there any other visitors to come today anybody out there got anything of any. Wonderin anything come on and bring in foreign or Sullivan everybody's problems today all right the we have large these four people to death and what we're adjourns.