Public Health, Welfare and Labor Committee- House

That will do first. Well a couple of things before we do that H. B. eighteen seventy one is going to be moved to deferred so we will not hear hear that today. So that was on the consent agenda. So we will go back go ahead and start out with the S. B. three thirty two and there is an amendment on that. So we'll get the amendment to you. Okay. Give the committee a little time to look at the amendment. Okay Senator Irvin you're you're recognized to present your amendment thank you and Mister chairman of the committee so the amendment I would just ask for engrossment of the amendment we have amend we've actually and and engrossed a couple of amendments and then we're adding this at final amendments I think just to try to get as many people and a neutral spot as possible and so I would just appreciate a good motion to get vote on adopting the amendments. Okay I have a motion to adopt this amendment. Any discussion on the motion. Seeing none all in favor signify by saying aye. All opposed nay. Motion carries your amendments been adopted you're recognized to present the bill as amended. Thank you Mr chairman of the committee one of the things that I really do appreciate representative Dotson in the at a lot of testimony you've already heard on this bill I wanted to just share with you I guess from my perspective and we've had a lot of movement on this bill and we've tried to work with a lot of different parties to really address the concerns not just of interested parties and and lobbyists but also of members and the questions that you had during the committee so the the amendments I have both been engrossed in this new amendment is really to address those concerns that we heard about the bill to try to really get to the root of what we're trying to solve here and what we're trying to solve here is a real problem it's not a make believe problem it's a real problem and it's a problem that's facing our hospitals and our health care engineers who are highly qualified individuals who are just trying to do their jobs and when I say they're trying to do their jobs it's really critical that they're there to keep things operating and moving and working so that we can treat patients and help prevent them from suffering more consequences from their illnesses are prevent death and I don't say that and off off handedly it's real what they do and we're really blessed to have these level of health care engineers working in our state and we want to encourage more of that we need more engineers in the State of Arkansas particularly that are focused in this area so I I want to call your attention to a a a letter that was from Troy wells at Troy is the CEO of Baptist health he I think operates I think I don't know how many hospitals hello eleven hospitals but he comes from Newport Arkansas I've no choice for a very long time and I just wanted to point out and just his letter and it was emailed to you but I just wanted to point out what it says COVID nineteen underscored the need. For a more cooperative relationship between medical equipment manufacturers and hospital clinical engineering departments this problem is not new and and it's so clear critically important that this is a patient safety and hospital capacity issue as they occur life threatening delays waiting for manufacturing technicians to travel to our hospitals to make fixes that our on site teams or qualified third party technicians could make immediately if armed with the right information and tools and so I think it's critically important that you understand that this is a pervasive problem and it's one that we have the expertise and we have those small businesses and we have those engineers and that's technicians that are ready on site to fix the problem and the fix the equipment so that we can provide safe patient care M. and I'm gonna turn it over and to to let Josh speak about this bill and we have other signed up also from the Arkansas hospital association to support this bill as other healthcare engineers so I just appreciate working with the healthcare engineers Association I appreciate working with these fine individuals they're so smart they're so capable and they just want to do their job someone to turn it over if you would induce yourself and who you represent. Thank you Mr Josh bracket represent Baptist health truly apologize for not being able to be here today and ask me to personally come down and speak to each of you in support of this bill and Baptist support of this bill Arkansas is built on rule communities and Baptist health believes in those rural communities and represents those rural communities and healthcare and I can tell you first hand as a healthcare engineer the struggles that we face in rural communities having the support in the services all of our resources are allocated to our larger hospitals in general and a lot of the the OEMs end up spending a lot of their time there and we struggle to get the support that we need to our rural communities in which are residents desperately deserve and we the pandemic is clearly shown us a lot of the issues and the potential of what could happen in this bill helps us to expedite timely quality patient care for this equipment for I'm not only for our internal staff but to have third party vendors services equipment in the event that we can't get the manufacturers out there which is a real problem so I I stand stand behind this bill are engineers association stands behind it back to sell stand behind it we would appreciate your support as well. Committee any questions from committee. Representative Payton you're recognized. Thank you Mr can you point out of where the bill it says if you can't get there repair technicians out there. I don't have the bill in front of me I apologize is that in the bill that says in the event that. They're repair technicians are not available. That represented not have somebody else come and address your question if that's okay. Mr Robert Cummins and represent the association of health care engineers. And Harrison energy partners is a member of the association of health care engineers the bill does not have a requirement as a prerequisite to obtaining these tools I'm sorry you ask questions as a requirement as a prerequisite to obtaining these tools that that they. Are refusing to come on some time schedule okay thank you see as the jet the overall general problem the ongoing problem. It gives them the option of going a different route. Thank you thank you Mr. Any other questions from committee. Seeing none of we have a number of people signed up to speak for against the bill. We actually have to the signed up to speak for the bill and for against the bill. So to speak against the bill Jonathan Thomas you would come to the table. Please introduce yourself and who you represent. Good afternoon everyone of my name is Jonathan Thomas and I'm the regional service manager for Siemens Healthineers. I want to come and speak before you today because. One I have fifteen years of field service were actually started out working in a. In a battle me as of over fifteen years ago I worked in the ballot may suffer for years prior to coming on which seems of and after I came on with singles. Actually went into the field of imaging of where I was able to specialize in angiography of. All too so. and and X. ray. So. A prior to coming on scene just to speak about just the general about me it basically and the amount of training that. That is not given basically of. And once you come on would you M. you do get the training from the standpoint of imaging. you get regular updates training there is modifications that go out that have to be trying and when you when you start to. Released someone this these licensees that allow different calibrations to go on without the proper training. Then you you you want to start causing. Issues a lot is equipment a we work on. Is life threatening equipment meaning that if it's not calibrated correctly then you can potentially harm or fatally kill someone. This is equipment that is very high tech. you have to have the right tools to do these calibrations you have to have the right amount experience to do these calibrations of a lot of the in house about me is they do they just not going to get enough of the phone. The hands on experience to be able to be proficiently and actually be able to take care of this equipment. so that's the reason why I'm coming here today to speak against board to be to come out against the bill this is there is a lot of experience that go along with working on his equipment and just to turn this over to. Well that hello I want you know I have eleven engineers in this state. I got five in the little rock area I got three up in northwest Arkansas I got another three days in the base field area to maintain the amount home Jones bear area I even have a person down in hot springs and one in Texarkana so I I I have guys throughout the the state that can reach these facilities decker reached out into the rule areas to get to the smaller hospitals but these guys are highly trained we spend a lot of money on training them. there is a lot of time that they have to stand on a fulfilling update training. So it is just not like you know we're just putting people out there to just work these guys are seriously trying. Mr Thomas. Thank you. I think you probably your company probably does this but do you track your response time I mean. What is been said is that you cannot respond quickly in some cases in rule areas. Do you track your time I mean can you respond to rule hospitals. In a certain period of time can you give me a feel for that yes yes. You know the response times date they. All the guys that are in our area are within our an hour and a half in a facility that we need to get to. From the staff over sponsor. Representative Wardlaw you're recognized. Thank you Mr thank you for that question so in that hour hour and a half do you ever take more than an hour and a half is it ever like four days because I think that was on the testimony we heard last time this bill was hired it some of these machines are down for days not hours no. No it did the. If if we get a service call and any and of course you know the faster the terms are going to be our was going to be with the contract customers and as as you leave contract customers you start going into what we call ten AM customers. then the tracking goes down but we always try to get to any customer as quickly as possible. Hello Mister yes you're recognized so what is the longest lead time to any of those customers in that list whether contract custom are not. Well we try to to reach a customer within our when I had some sometimes is the it you get to a customer the next day okay thank you. So the all the regular maintenance on these this equipment to write so we're talking about I guess emergencies that's what we're talking about here because your regular bank maintenance is a routine separate record regular regular maintenance what we call PM than those are schedule service offense. So if you've a. you said you had people around the state but say in the northeast Arkansas where I'm from and the person that might need to respond in an emergency to St Bernard's or any a bad answer some hospital up there. If that person is busy on a on some other project or work no we can use up to some yes we have what we call primary secondary tertiary. And if the primary is is tied up then it goes to the secondary CSE and if the secondaries tiles of it goes to the to the church where CSE. So those people are pre identified correct. Representative Boyd you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair there was snow in northwest Arkansas today would that create any problems making it all the way to Fort Smith I've got a you know to hospitals in Fort Smith I mean all right well what I have achieved I have a CSE that lives more for Smith and I had to I have to go out and live in fear of the one follow up Mr yes and then the other thing is I know it may be one here for a last meeting but there was a lot of discussion about what COVID has done and COVID as part of the challenges it that stop travel so would were there any did you have any issues at the height of covid the other two and out of hospital set to it the very heart of covert the only thing that slowed down everything was at the hospital's request they wanted to stop the PM a maintenance from going on so that they minimize the number of people that was going in and out the facilities. you know there were certain boundaries or certain states that was shutting down so what we did was we made sure that we kept all CSCs within certain states so that they would have to worry about the quarantines of from going from my critics is to Arkansas or Texas to Louisiana we just made sure we kept all CSCs within the state. Representative Dotson you're recognized for a question thank you Mr chair returned from you so you'd mentioned that you have secondary and tertiary backups are the are those all employed by your company yes so so what happens if. You don't you're unable to get the the tertiary out there and do you have a backup plan for that yeah I mean we can continue to go down on this we'll have to what we do is we look out a little further from the immediate area it made for baxay from Jonesborough I may have to go to Memphis to pull somebody from Memphis up to John for or if we in in Batesville I may have to go to little rock to get somebody to Batesville but in any event we do have backup guys and we do cross training this will. Okay thank you. Representative Payton you're recognized. Thank you Mr and so the chair asked the question I want to ask about don't think you've answered it it sounds like you're a manager over this group do you track response time we do okay is there any way that you could forward any of that information to us or can you sit there and recite any of it what your average response time is or anything. I would have to go in re pull it I I just off the top of my head I don't have it can you give us a ranger I mean if you're tracking it it should be some report that you look at regularly to know if you're doing better or worse on your response time do you have any idea what your average response time is I would the average response time is going to be anywhere from one hour to two and a half hours thank you thank you Mr. Representative Bentley you're recognized for a question. Thank you chairman I can tell me how many hospitals in the state you covered. I could not tell you Arkansas the I mean there's not only the the bigger hospitals but there is the outline smaller facilities the clinics. the imaging centers so there there are a number of them I I was venture out to say is anywhere between fifty and seventy five. A second question chairman that's okay yeah you're recognized you guys two evenings and weekends we have our own Caro evenings in on car weekends. In all eleven are on calls that you're eleven engineers you that you're talking about of the on call for no we we typically have for on call people on the weekend. Thank you jim. The other questions from committee. Representative Coleman you're recognized. Thank you. When when you sell this equipment do you have any contracts that says if you're the only ones that can work on it or any agreements on these to keep anybody else from from work in order use the only ones that have replacement parts. course we are the OEM so we manufacture the parts when we sell the equipment we do not specifically say where are the only ones that work on it a lot of customers choose to buy a contract from us so that we are the ones that come out and maintain those systems in any event we welcome with any particular hospital if they want to partner with us and want to go to this training then we welcome pardoning with hospitals that will allow them to get the training so that they will be able to service the appointment enough for proficient manner. Mister chair may also answer that question on page six of the bill lines sixteen through twenty two it's clearly states that all service repair work performed at a hospital facility or hospital and facility on digital electronic equipment shall be performed by a person possessing any licensing or certification required by law or rule establishing standards of competency or qualification for the repair or service of that specific specific specific digital electronic equipment. Okay. The other questions from committee. Seeing none thank you for your comments. Okay to speak for the bill thank you drew Harrison. Please drew Harrison in the room. Thank. What if if Josh to come back up please. Is well we've got other people that speak for against Senate yeah whoever's signed up to speak for can. Thank you Mr chairman I'm gonna pass my time all right. To speak for the bill bill Harrison. Chairman Arafat okay. All right speak against the bill Michael Stewart. Is Michael Stewart. Okay. William Atkins to speak against the bill. Please go to the table you lose yourself and who you represent. Thank you Mr chair William Adkins director service for GE healthcare here in Arkansas came today to oppose the bill answer any questions that you have I would like to make one comment no the bill talks about certifications or licensing there is no requirement in the State of Arkansas to service medical equipment as far as licensing and certification goes. Jerry other comments that was the last any questions from committee. A wide like that have you talk similar to the earlier person how many people do you have about what your response time that sort of thing so I have about thirty five engineers in the State of Arkansas about fifteen of those are focused on imaging the the remainder of them are station within the hospitals. our average response time for hard down systems is typically around two hours or less if they are not hard down it all depends on the customer itself. If they're going to continue to use equipment they're not gonna give it to us to work on it so we're not going to go into they do give us the equipment. So again the same question the representative Coleman asked about contracts how do you handle it do you have some contracts with some hospitals and you just to others time material how do you do that that's exactly right yeah we do have contracts with some customers other customers choose to go just time material when it breaks the calls when we come in and and fix equipment. Any questions from committee. Seeing none thank you for your comments thank you. Okay signed up to speak for the bill Jody and Trent. Please introduce yourself and the represent you bet I'll be really quick thank you for having me today I'm Jody entered on the executive vice president of the Arkansas hospital association I just wanted to echo how strongly the hospital association supports our hospital engineers and the work they do every day to Senator Irvin as point they're very very highly trained and it is not in the best interest of any hospital to allow someone to work on life or death equipment like this who is not trained and who is not able to to work on the equipment which is why the bill is in fact permissive and allows hospitals to make those decisions as best they see fit so I respect your time and I thank you for the opportunity to to speak with you today we do have a question if you'd be willing dance representative Boyd you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair. I would appreciate your perspective so we're we're here presumptively because something is broken in the market and we've heard other people but I want to hear from you specifically on how you would verbalize what is broken and exactly what you think this does to resolve that issue so the so the engineers obviously are the best at giving you detail about the individual things that happen within individual hospitals the easiest an example I can give you is if there's a manufacturer who owns a piece of equipment and our engineers could for example change a battery we are unable to change that battery unless we do a service call that's expensive wait the hour and a half two hours two days three days for that person to come and change the battery when we have skilled folks who are on site on premises who can do Monday and things like that that would not in fact infringement upon trade rights intellectual property those kinds of things so that that is one of the most obvious issues. You're welcome. Representative Wardlaw you're recognized for a question. So thank you Mr so you disagree with that guy that testified earlier against the bill where he said his response times an hour and a half takes four days I certainly wish all manufacturers were like what he testified to Sir thank you. Senate Bently you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr for being here can we just go over how many hospitals we have in the state right now they're about a hundred and ten hospitals in the state right now in over a hundred those are members of the Arkansas hospital association and and just a guess our motion for coming clinics if you might have because these people also servicing clinic so what number you think might have their I would absolutely be making up that number that's outside of my purview but it would certainly be more than a hundred okay so we have quite a few folks that would need helps okay I appreciate you coming I know that my local hospital definitely favor the bill so thank you for being here you're welcome. Seeing no more questions thank you for your comments. Signed up to speak against the bill. James Penson. You would please enter seven who you represent. Thank you chairman my name is James pencil number GE healthcare I put together all these programs take care of this committee the various hospitals it's kind of supporting the here that we're talking about health. This bill is going to increase response time special time by third parties I give an example five years ago we had a bunch of ISIS NO a serious accident I a hitter Bricknell box misled spent twenty days in the hospital twenty eight and I see you fifteen days medically induced coma thirty days of hospital together the system I was scanned on was hard down two days from accident with the skin. But because of our remote diagnostics remote fix in our supply chain apart he was up the same the next day when I'm before I needed so that same hospital that I was sent to save my life. They're now using third parties they cut the doctors in the people who first line defense on code on patients call me complain about my system's been down for a week they did they didn't third parties call us and we fix it the same day or next day I can give you dozens of examples of that happening. So. Two different third party to work some these hospitals in the state of the same issues I've had CPR's shut down going to divergence so numerous times as a hospital across state rule in metro areas and I can work for you know several hundred hospitals across Arkansas Missouri Kentucky. And I don't want anyone. Family member bill on the patient like I was not have Medicare they have so it's very personal to me so there's a lot of misspoke step here what they don't tell you about the Williams we have remote fix remote diagnostic capabilities we respond remotely. Within five minutes typically five to fifteen minutes we've remote fix forty three percent of our systems so we've got four hundred fifty online engineers. Across the country that work Marcus of twenty four seven so you push your buttons you get so immediately now a lot of times you know third parties what Coliseum because they have a contract application with a hospital so we're doing everything we can to support these folks we talk about training there's a big difference tween OEM trained in some in a hospital training third party trade some is third party groups have been trained by us but they still have six was down for a week so we're against this because the safety of the patient the response time is not better in the parts there's been situations really get a party in the third party will they put it in it breaks this is within the next day that happens over and over again I can give you countless examples of that if I get approval but I've got emails texts and phone calls from doctors and radiologists I've got the the people who are first line defense complained about this they will testify because they're afraid to. That's all I've got to say. Any questions from committee. Seeing none thank you for your comments thank you. I'm wondering is there anyone here that represents this third party company that we've been talking about. They would be willing to come up and answer questions. Sure we we had a guy your refuses to be. On thank you. All right seeing no one else signed up to speak for against the bill. Has been. Yes are you speak for against against against okay go to the table. We also have somebody to sign up to speak for the bill that needs to be able to speak we don't have them signed up but we'll get to them. US is signed up to speak for the bill judge for. The deal with. Okay he's already been in okay of if you would hear this yourself and who you represent. Thank you my name is Jason Hendren of an attorney at Wright Lindsey and Jennings I'm here today on behalf of the ad the med and M. I. T. A.. This. Is that better. A little better I'll try and be louder I'm sorry. You heard briefly from I'm sorry I didn't hear who you represent would you repeat that yes Sir AdvaMed and the M. I. T. A. the medical imaging and technology alliance. Your briefly for Mr fielding Greaves last time the bill is presented but he was unable to be here today and as a result I've been asked to come in address the committee. You've already heard the presentation of the bill and I will not go back over it in detail but there been several amendments to it since the last presentation the amendments to the bill remove the definition of medical facility and all references to it and substitutes hospital or hospital owned facility in other words the bill is now essentially limited to hospitals that begs the question of course what was the true purpose of this bill if it was about timely access to repairs to ensure patient safety why would the proponents leave out a myriad of health care facilities such as non hospital and clinics freestanding facilities owned by a physician groups perhaps even athletic facilities if this is good for hospitals or hospital in facilities that should be good for other healthcare settings. The amendments also add language stating that anyone who works on the equipment must be licensed to do so as required by law and as you heard earlier from Mr Atkins there are no such laws state or federal requiring any type of licensure in the settings again that fact alone calls into question the true purpose of the bill. Another amendment that was made recently was to take out the deceptive trade practices part of the proposed legislation that was going to be one of my remarks and I think it was taken out because there were recognized problems with that with the committee needs to recognize is that even if you take that language out of the bill the sheer fact that we have this bill can lead to claims under the deceptive trade practices act so we can still cause mischief when we get into what's a trade secret what's not and those sorts of things other the removal of that language in the bill doesn't solve the problem. Finally the amendment changes the trade secret language and this as the committee has seen has been amended a couple times now the original version said that no trade secrets were accessible except as necessary to make repairs the next amendment stated the trade secrets weren't accessible all. And that made us wonder as we looked at this one a the need for that would be and the main reason that I think this bill concerns a lot of people is the fact that it seems to be a way to get out those trade secrets we say in the the most recent amendment I think was today or yesterday now it's come back again where you can get into the trade secrets if they satisfy if they don't satisfy definitions of trade secrets cetera so it seems to be a moving target geared primarily to try to get out the trade secrets of these companies at the end of the day the bill really does the same thing it did originally is designed to prohibit manufacturers from contracting with their purchasers as to the terms of service and maintenance the repair terms going to be clear in the purchase contract if they are healthcare facility will have a remedy by way of breach of contract. Parties should be able to contract as they see fit especially to ensure the integrity and safety of the device. If the healthcare provider wants to use an independent provider independent tax they can buy from the seventy percent that you all heard about in the previous hearing that the proponents talked about last week. The market needs to dictate these terms of these of these contracts it's government overreach to try to say that the legislature should get involved in these private contracts between the producers and the facilities there is no need for such government intervention under these circumstances there have died today there's been one anecdotal reference to there have been delays I have not seen anything in fact showing any such delay the jeopardize patient safety especially with the groups that you heard from today. Even during the pandemic indeed this is not tied to a specific problem here in Arkansas it's a concerted effort across the country by groups to try to interfere with the control of these contracts and by the way no other state has passed this law yet despite it being tried and several others in short there's no reason to legislate private contracts and agreements in these instances I respectfully request that this committee vote against. Senate bill three thirty two and I will add as a personal note as a long time a patient representative dots probably knows this I have my first open heart surgery when I was nine months old and my second when I was three years old I've had a pacemaker since president Reagan was president so these issues are very important to me the last thing a patient needs to worry about is whether these medical devices are being service to where they're supposed to be my wife is a retired city tech and I can tell you many stories about the danger that that she had to be worried about on the job with these machines some of them are not calibrated correctly they can cause tremendous damage not just patients but also to the staff of the facilities to use them and for those reasons you heard many industry folks coming here today and tell you why they did not think that this legislation is appropriate there are several others who were here the didn't get speak less bone right is here from Phillips his district service manager in here in Arkansas he's been in the industry twenty one years overseas as a team of twelve field service agents engineers rather to support Philips healthcare healthcare equipment in all major medical facilities in the state and he lives here in Arkansas I'm glad that he was here he also heard from Jonathan Thomas from Siemens Mr Atkins also from G. E. and that gives you a testament to the type of people we have here in the state taking care of these machines in these devices this legislation is not necessary is looking for a problem and that is not what this body should be involved in getting into contracts between folks who want to have the right contract as they see fit. Sorry to be nervous I've never done this before we we do have some questions if you'd be willing to take those I'll do my best representative Boyd you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair thank you for your testimony I do want to try to clarify one point because there's been reference to licensure and so I'm just curious if you thought you know if we had licensure of repair workers do you think that would change in the the opposition or do you think that's just a talking point and that's a serious question. My understanding for the industry is that their technicians. Undergo FDA approval. Is that correct Services machines. That is what I think is important if there were state or federal requirements I think that would be helpful but what we know is that the folks in the industry are clearly highly trained and certified as my and my understand through the FDA. If that ensure question. Representantes incorrect recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair so. I was unfamiliar with the name of the company represent it is it was that an old OEM the jets your represent okay so when you're talking about the service contracts if you're unable to perform the service contract according to the original term of the contract and there's that breach of contract that you're talking about do you refund the equipment so that they can go re purchase some equipment because we're talking about for a large investments here or is it just you stop the contract now they have a paper weight that they can't get any service because you're not giving them the the the ability to certain get serviced at all they're locked in to the OEM. When I put on my lawyer hat representative Dotson is that question and you'll understand I mean these are very expensive machines breach of contract actions carry with it also the payment of attorney's fees and costs it is in the best interest of the industry to make sure that they comply with the contract so that issue does not come up very often because it be a very expensive thing to have to do if there's a breach I think that's why they're on call that's why they have these teams of engineers strategically located throughout the state because you do not want to be income and member to contract for exactly that reason I think that's their motivation for getting there and and taking care of things and that's why you don't see these problems I think some of the anecdotal stories that you all have heard it's it's very hard to parse out is that industry OEMs wars or is that related to these third parties so I think you're frankly the hospitals in better shape having those type contracts with those manufacturers to make sure that they're doing what they're supposed to do rather than wrestle to gauge number bridge contract action all right follow up yes. I was listening to my non attorney ears I'm not sure you answered my question I'll try again I'm sorry the the question being. What happens if you said they're rare but if that happens that there is a breach of contract in even in a rare instance and circumstance. There's a large investment like we talked about their obviously attorney fees and things like that are probably gonna be on both sides and no one but the attorneys wins in that situation but what happens with the fact that you say you've got equipment that is down mmhm medical facility has to go re purchase the equipment because they can't get satisfaction on getting the equipment serviced you've now come into a breach of contract you refund the original purchase price what what happens with the. Are they are they still tied to you I guess without equipment forever. There are a number of remedies for breach of contract and and those can be utilized as far as covering if you need something else to perform what was not performed or the under the contract there can be all manner of financial remedies if you have incurred unnecessary expense or if you have to buy a new machine or those kind of those are all supplied under the contract law and that's why if if the market is allowed to govern the situations that's the better approach than a legislative approach. Thank you Mr. President Payton you're recognized. Thank you Mr so when we talk about the. Trade secrets and proprietary information as an attorney Could that not all be protected through non disclosure agreements and is this bill. Leave. Room to require nondisclosure agreements if you were to give that information to these third party repair techs. Well I think that's the that's the problem the as you have seen the way the amendments of moved around like well we might need to get that information in order to repair the machine will then what happens to it and and so what I don't see that in the language of the bill that you would think that's another one of the pieces of mischief in this legislation is what are you going to do are you going to put in some sort of nondisclosure agreement or some sort of protective advice device in addition to the contract that you already have it was supposed to protect you against the first place this is opening up a Pandora's box in a way because that's what people have a vested interest in protecting and I think that's part of the concern of the of opponents of the bill I have a follow. Yes you're recognized so if the language in this legislation compels the disclosure of the information to the third party. why would they be willing to sign a non disclosure agreement unless it's required in the legislation. That's a good question. You want to write the to I I again it's it's kind of in the amendment I saw today there's like double negatives as far as how that would all work and I'm I'm honestly not sure how you would fix that okay that that would be a troubling aspect of this you know to try to maintain the seekers and the fact again that they keep coming around to shows you I think that that's a major part of this bill how do we get at these trade secrets. Thank you thank you Mr. Represent Coleman you're recognized for a question. Thank you. other contract agreements now in place that this legislation which circumvented Council. I think it would make several contracts. But very much at risk yes I think that my understanding is that that's part of the agreement between the hospital and the provider is that you need to use our folks to fix these machines and do repairs maintenance as part of the contractual agreement and they do that obviously because they want the machines their machine's fixed in certain ways they work the way they're supposed to and I think that they find that elemental in the agreement that they're making as you heard the other day not everybody does that I mean the hospitals are free to choose other providers if they want you don't have those contracts but but my understanding is that there are several who do and and it's for a lot of the same reasons to protect intellectual property to protect the integrity of the repairs you know those sorts of things. If that makes sense Mister chair I do have people here that can re but some of these comments and answer the question by representative Coleman if you allow because yeah there's a big vested interest year for sure that's why you have six lobbyists now signed up to speak against the bill it's all about money and that's the bottom line I had a quick because there is there are things called big time paper weights and you were trying in I can assure you that's what happens there's a reason for this bill these hospitals need this bill so if you would allow for people to come up and read that there's no mischief you know trying to solve a real processor no I can not allow we're going by the process of the committee so I can't do that they had the opportunity to speak they spoke. Sir I had a question for you you talked about if the contract breach or an issue with the contract. and what would happen with third party repair companies wouldn't that be the same situation. As it would be within a one AM it I mean these third party companies you may not be able to answer this in a pawn jazzed him but I'm sure they would have some kind of agreement there's not I'm here to speak but if they're going to repair a machine the cost me and a half dollars they're gonna have some kind of agreement because what if they mess that she not. What would happen then your opinion as an attorney. Well there are myriad of possibilities and I think again that's why these companies are saying you know if you want to use our machine we would love for you to but it's important that we be able to repair and and do the maintenance to avoid those exact kinds of problems because you know I don't know it depends on who that third party provider is how qualified they are how good of a job they do you know when you bring someone else in to make those repairs under that circumstance you kind of cut the link between the hospital and the original provider and I can make things rather murky to in the law it was the the damage caused by the machine malfunctioning or not working or was it caused by some error or inappropriate repair attempt the those things can again because quite a few problems. All right seeing no further questions. Thank you for your comments thank you for to of. Josh bracket if you would come to the table it. You helped to present the bill. we did not ask you questions I don't believe maybe I'm mistaken on that but I want to give you an opportunity to answer questions if the committee has any. Are there any questions from committee for Mr Brackett. Representative mentally you're recognized thank you Josh can you elaborate more what you're seeing across the state with some of your hospitals on the length of time there have been what repairs and give us a real sense of what the need is for this bill here and some of the some of the concerns are raised about machines and there are no longer functioning there was it was been millions and sitting there we can't use it and that's hurting our small hospice if you get labor and that out absolutely yes there are hospitals across the state that are suffering from this and a lot a lot of what we're hearing about are these these million plus dollar pieces of equipment of imaging equipment but what about our thousands of other types of equipment that were not allowed to touch. That's that's part of what you guys aren't hearing we have the global companies here that are representing and I really appreciate them we use them but what about all the ones that are here that aren't aren't able to get out there that and the best of the best has for on call technicians from five PM Friday until eight AM Monday. So all we're looking for is a choice. Because at the end of the day if somebody passes away they're not liable for it we are. As the hospital we're liable because that's what you're going to look to us that's what Arkansas residents look to is art we're liable for that and we don't have a choice and we're held captive. And that does not seem right to me for Arkansas residents. Wardlaw you're recognized for a question. So which machines can you not work on and why can you not working today. There's no you don't you don't to give examples everyone is asking for one seventy five a good great example is it was offense vencer a great example we had a lot of issues with vents especially during covid I have friends clearly you know in in in Arkansas we did not have near the issue with COVID has some of the other states I have friends in our and in New York that Sir I'm asking what problems we had here in Arkansas here in Arkansas that we would have not had service on absolutely I understand we have problems with a ventilator is a great example of that okay so what was the issue with the ventilators and not be no to get service on those that like we were we were concerned about having the capacity that we needed Sir I'm asking what the Pacific issue was not a concern what was the issue and why could we not get service on that issue. I can I don't have a specific issue. Thank you. President Dotson recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair We we heard talk about contracts and The the type of maintenance contracts extended maintenance contracts things like that and and what happens You know if the service is not met have you had issues or can you speak to some of the contracts that you have with various manufacturers if if they don't perform or operate waters your recourse or what take it down the the road as far as what you have to do if their their performance contracts aren't are met and how do you continue to operate as a facility because you still have a requirement to take care folks even if that equipment is down do you buy new equipment and what happens at that point some equipment we can smaller pieces of equipment will have on stock larger pieces of equipment if it's down it's down we can't service at community and we have to send them to different hospitals until it's up and running your contracts on those types of things have you had manufactures not perform on their service contracts what does that look like when when we can't get service performed it for whatever reason delay of the lay of them coming out the late it being over the weekend it does not having the parts on hand then the piece of equipment is just down. Okay the the important thing that I think is that the primal knowledge is there the certifications and licenses there is no there is no FDA license there the we have certifications and. To my knowledge there's no certification for any of the manufacturers they offered that we we can do the training the problem is is again like are smaller rule hospitals don't have the staff to do that and we are tied by a one one option. And that's our only option. Thank you. Representative Perry right recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chairman do you have any. He said you know I know in some lot of the businesses that we do we whenever we have a service issue will have a service ticket or we righted that we call in the repair do you have any individualized the instances where you've actually you know track the dates of what occurred how long it's taken. I. I know our bio med department or clinical engineering department does I do not have any on hand and I can't give you a specific example I apologize. Representable eight and I I can speak from our clinical perspective we purchase a bone density machine and but this again This Is clinical so would not apply because this we changed and amended this to hospital based only but the bone density machine that we I mean this this machine we purchased big big piece of equipment the table that you you know have your patience lay on to check their bone density we're in Mountain View Arkansas and once we purchased it we can never get anybody to come service at and so we paid a ton of money and then when it broke we could have and nobody would come and fix it and so it is a huge paperweight sitting in our clinic that we cannot use and we've invested a ton of money to try to provide a benefit for our patients and we never you know we did not get the the ability to continue to use it and so did become this huge paper weight and then it was ridiculous to pay the money to even try to get it fixed and people wouldn't come fix it and then you're stuck with this big piece of equipment that you nobody wants wants nobody wants to take it and then you are literally held captive by the manufacturer that will come services it and that will charge you an exorbitant amount of money to even try to fix it when they just are trying to get you to buy a new piece of equipment that happens Israel's not anecdotal it's actually real and you may have you know one company talking about one piece of equipment you know and the calibration and everything that you had a testimony about incident machine is not going to hurt patients it's it's literally there to try to you know provide something you're not I had a G. E. refrigerator I wish And not be held by a specific manufacture. Well All right any other questions from committee. Welcome lotion a transfer you get a follow who had represented called. But now I have a love for TransAlta leverage it's if the if of these third party vendors can do this in the staff can go get the training can not the third party vendors go get the training no Sir. Third I have can't the staff can staff can go and get training. Okay. But right now yes right now third parties are not offered offered training from the manufacturers. Representative Miller did you have a question the third party engineer firms are not allowed to get the training by the manufacturers that's correct and so that's that's that's creating a problem that's part of what we're asking for. All right seeing no further questions from committee. Are you ready closed three Bills center. Yes yes thank you yes I'm ready to to close for it members I I know that this is a heated debate and I know that you have a lot of people that are here speaking for and against the bill however I'm speaking for this bill and I'm carrying this bill because I believe in our health care engineers that are hired and operated the operator hospitals and I am I think it's critically important that we give them the tools that they need to be able to fix the equipment that they need in a safe manner hospitals Are the liable for those patients lives. Five people that are here in the state of Arkansas and that they have on their staffs in order to help fix the commitment to provide safe and effective and fast patient care because you heard what was that at the end of the day it's their hard cider on the top on on the line. They are the ones that are liable for those patients lives. The box office with our hospitals in the Buck stops with those engineers trying to keep it all going and float and so I can tell you physicians rely on this when you need a piece of equipment in order to do a test you need it right then and there. Sometimes an hour is too long. You're dying of a heart attack you've got a stroke. An hour is going to be too long for you and if the doctors do not have the ability to do the imaging they do not have the ability to see exactly what's going on with that patient you're gonna lose your life. And that's going to be on you all or on me. It's gonna be on them. And so these people came here to this legislature asking for assistance asking for help. Because those doctors those nurses they've got to have those eyes inside your body when they're trying to save your life they cannot wait. They have to have that in order to make the call and save your life. We have amended this bill and amended and amended it to make it very specific and very tailored. We have tried to address concerns that we have heard from members of this committee and we were happy to do that and so what we have brought you is a very focused narrowed responsible piece of legislation and I really would appreciate your consideration and I've close from a bill. Thank you what's will of committee. Which motion the representantes. Motion do pass as amended. I have a motion do pass as amended by representative Dotson any discussion on the motion. Representative Bentley you're recognized. Thank you chairman Collins is I know I spoke this last time we're here but if this was the case with this hospital dealing with if I had to do with it my company I could not get third party vendors to come out impairment of fixed my machine I would put out of business a long time ago I think we all care about our small rural hospitals we care about hospital care better patients we've got to make sure they can get things fixed in a timely manner and efficient manner and a. Cost effective manner at the end of the day we need a hospital surviving we all know they're struggling so with that I would appreciate a good vote on this bill thank you. Representative Miller you're recognized. Thank you Mr. What I care about our hospitals I don't think anybody and here's probably spent more time in what is a patient. And I have an and I want their equipment to be you know real good. I've got some real concerns about cannot get around. With this bill. And that is. I'm I see us. Tampering. What the free market system. And. I agree there's a problem the hospitals are in a bind and and I hate that I am I don't know I bills I don't know what the solution is to fix that. But I am concerned about if we pass this legislation. And hospitals since this is simply permissive language but you know what we what we don't run permissive language bills without knowing there's gonna be some people who are going to want to use the permission they're given so a hospital start doing this and third party vendors are called out. Which I'm all for and then they call G. E. or some other one of these big companies and and they say Hey you know we're in Arkansas on a major codes or whatever. What's going to happen with that big company says no. Right doing that. All the stuff is patented. Well being number one does not do anything to speed up response times number two so what up in court and number three I don't see how this bill. Passed by the Arkansas legislature is going to. Hold up in court against a patent folly United States government. Also one of some of these bigger companies decide. They're not going to do business in Arkansas anymore. There's not that much volume here anyway in life run the risk are they run their prices up I don't know I had that point brought up to me by a hospital administrator. and I think these are all things we need to think about obviously I think I will do whatever to help hospitals I'm not even I'm not kidding or I really honestly do but I don't know that that tamper with the free market system and saying I know we're gonna make you do this for make you'd Baltz stuff I'd I can't get comfortable that and and for that I'm a vote no thanks. President Johnson recognized. Thank you Mr I don't think there's. Per million people more free market in here than I am and I I think this bill. Hopefully protects the purchase of very expensive equipment by some hospitals in the State of Arkansas that need this critical equipment in order to work to take care of our our citizens and our residents To be able to get that to have the right to repair that equipment. And I think ultimately then the day that's where I came down to on this bill this is this is about having the right to take care of something that you already own or that you've entered into the and agreements to purchase I guess so it's no different than if you buy a house. Some of us don't completely own our house yet they're mortgage on it but if something breaks on it. We don't need to be locked into just one individual who built the house we need to be able to call whoever we need to to to to fix whatever problem there happens to be or have the ability to fix it ourself if if we have that that technical expertise and so with that I think there's a lot of stuff in especially in public health that as a free market capitalist limited government individual at turns my stomach sometimes when we're voting on and regarding healthcare and legislation but and in regards to this I think we need to protect the rights of the the consumers to take care of the property that they own thank you. Well ugh I have the same concerns that represent Miller just brought a. You know we had three companies talk here and they have if my numbers are right fifty seven engineers in the state working on this equipment this only three companies I don't how many others are here but representative Miller. I think he makes a good point these are the large internet a large international companies and they may decide that they just will not do business here in Arkansas we hear all the time on social issues that we vote on that we vote a certain way companies are going to come here. And I guarantee a if we get involved in the commercial business contracts and that sort of thing some companies will not come here. And I can say that from experience because these people have that they can. Do better in other states and other countries if we put in too many regulations I'm like representative Miller I will do everything I can for the hospitals but I just cannot see. Where this bill is going to be a lot of help for hospitals. Any further discussion. Seeing none of motion on the floor is do pass as amended all in favor signify by saying aye. All opposed nay. Roll call. Okay. Representative Wardlaw. Representive Wardlaw. Representive Eubanks. Representative McGee. Representive Dotson. Representative Miller. Representative Payton. Representative Bentley. Representative gray. Representative gray. Representative Gonzales. Representative Gonzalez. Representative Boyd. Yes this. Representative Alan. Representive Allen. Representive Coleman. Representative Pilkington. Representive Pilkington. Representive wing. Representive wing. Representative Penzo yes. Representative Perry yes. Representive Davis. Representative Davis. Representive cloud yes. Representative Ferguson. Representive Ferguson. Share Ladyman. Not. Senator bills fail. Thank you. Okay committee we want to move on to There's a couple bills are going to pass over. H. B. nineteen twenty three by representative Meeks we're gonna pass over. representative wing is in another committee just text me. so H. B. nineteen thirty five we'll pass over temporarily. eight S. B. five fourteen by Senator Davis. Is there anyone here to run that bill. Seeing none. Of H. B. nineteen nineteen we're going to pass over. By representative Christiansen. SB two forty eight representative Payton you're on that bill are you prepared to run it. We'll have to wait and see I. Okay that's one. Okay representative Miller we're down to H. B. fourteen twenty eight are you want to run that again what you're. One time. Okay. All right committee we're doing good here I guess H. B. nineteen forty four by representative **** he is not here yet so. So with that. But the. Bills. And at the three day which will. Forty four forty five. So would you consider. You got to. Okay of. H. B. nineteen forty four and nineteen forty five has not met the two day rule was just file one day. So we'll have to pass over those sore down to S. B. five ninety five and I'll be presenting that. The representative Eubanks when you come up and take the chair please. With that. Members we have an amendment with this bill. The staff is handed out. Represent Ladyman you're recognized to explain your amendment. Thank you Mr chairman. Members all this amendment does is When we get this bill on the house floor I called it back for an amendment. We found out that sections of this bill conflict with a couple of other bills that have already gone to the governor's desk so we needed to adjust this bill. To not overlap those those other bills so all the amendment does is it eliminates section fifteen sixteen seventeen and eighteen. Which are actually covered and other bills that have already gone to the government. Committee there any questions on the amendment. I have a motion to adopt the amendment. All in favor say aye. Motion. And it's adopted. What. Explain your bill now is amended. close from a bill as amended make a motion do pass. Is amended. We didn't have anybody signed up to speak for against this this bill so We have a motion do pass as amendment it discussion on the motion. Saying nine. All in favor say aye. Opposed nay. Congratulations you've passed your bill. And you can have your chairmanship back. The Bill. Thank you Mr chairman we have an amendment all right Committee the amendments come around. I got it I got. Representative you're recognized to present your amendment thank you Mr chairman and committee the key word on the amendment that you have in front of you is prior art authorization so this was for Blue Cross blue shield and university of Arkansas. Any questions. Any questions from committee on the amendment. Seeing none a mayor speak against the amendment. For the amendment. Seeing none your motion representative yes Sir I move that we approve the amendment. I have a motion to adopt the amendment the discussion on the motion. Seeing none all in favor signify by saying aye All opposed nay Motian carries your amendments adopted you're recognized to present your bill as amended members that two and a half weeks ago we did this same bill basically for Medicaid and now we're doing it for private insurers this is to authorize the off label use of a drug use of treatments that treat patients diagnosed with pediatric acute onset neuro psychiatric syndrome and pediatric autoimmune neuro psychiatric disorders associated with streptococcal infection the meat of the bill Page three starting with line twenty one on down to about line thirty one the main part of this is that uh insurers shall provide shall provide coverage for off label use of the intravenous immunoglobulin ideology to treat individuals diagnosed as the pants or the pandas as we discussed so with that I'll be glad taking questions. The representative Boyd you're recognized for a question thank you Mr chair so in the title it talks about off label use of drug treatments could describe what off label use means yes Sir it means that it is not specifically approved by the FDA for this use as about twenty percent of our drug usage is off label pop followed Mr yes you're recognized thank you Mr chair so does this mean we're forcing insurance companies to participate in experiments could you just delve into that a little bit more representative board I wouldn't call it an experiment this is well proven treatment the intravenous immunoglobulin has been used for many many years multiple sclerosis is a great example or any other auto immune problems have which this panda's falls under so I wouldn't term it as experimental there's been usage usages where it has been proven to be very very very effective in this syndrome. Any other questions from committee. Representative Dotson you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair at I'm sorry I had to step out maybe I maybe use cover this but didn't we already see this bill that was for Medicaid yes Sir this is for for private health insurance okay so it's does the same thing just exactly the same thing all right thank you. Representable you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair could you just clarify is this body if we pass this are we intervening somehow on a private contract. A possibly I guess we could interpret it that way about a lawyer so I'd I'd would hate to say. Representative pain you're recognized for a question thank you Mr. I guess my concern arises from the fact that. Normally a bill like this would go through insurance and commerce and this was assigned to the public health yesterday. I'm wondering if you've been contacted by any. Insurance companies as to how this might affect premiums or or what they do because I'm not sure they monitor this come this Committee as closely as they do insurance and commerce committee made sense for the Medicaid bill to come through here but I mean kind of like a representative board was saying I mean. Buying private insurance is a contract and if you for some to cover more items than they have to adjust their rates accordingly so. Do you have you been contacted by any insurance carriers I have not representative Payton Senate senator Hammer has when he ran it over in the Senate and they did run and Senate insurance committee and we actually thought that it was going to be in the Senate and the house insurance committee but it was assigned here but it's that's where part of these amendments came from was from Blue Cross blue shield and UAMS. Okay thank you thank you Mr. Any other questions. Seeing none the less and. No one signed up to speak for against the bill anyone the audience here speak against the bill. For the bill. Seeing none you any clothes for you will yes Sir I'm close for a bill for the bill and I make a motion to pass appreciate a good vote. As amended thank I have a motion do pass as amended any discussion on the motion. Representative more you're recognized thank you Mr chair the I think this is a good bill this important issue and off label uses certainly a common thing to do and I think that making sure our kids have access to this treatment is is important and so I will be supporting this bill thank you. Any other discussion. Seeing none motion on floors do pass as amended and all in favor signify by saying aye hi All opposed nay. Motion carries resolutions bills passed. Thank committee next item on the agenda is S. B. six sixty three. Senator Irvin as bill is anyone. Here to run that bill. You know the. but it's on the agenda for today. Are you the co sponsor that. Okay. Calendar is names on it okay yes you are the co sponsor. You need more time to the Mister chair it there's an issue because it's on to calendars and already presented an amendment on the house floor today so I I'm expecting to present this in committee as amended on on Thursday okay. It yes on the supplemental agenda so we can pass over that. he. At a representative Wardlaw are you in the room. Could you come up and take the chair please. All right members which Senate bill six sixty nine is there someone in room or on that bill. He's alright all right. Thank you he wasn't clear on that. You're recognized run bill Mr also on the. Okay you're recognized. Your business. I. At present there you're recognized run Senate bill six sixty nine thank you Mr chairman committee members this is a senator Wallace ability has been run this has to do with sewer regulations from time to time you have small community server systems that are installed in accordance with the Department of health and regulations fail due to lack of maintenance in some areas this is not a significant problem of course until you really need it fixed in and others local leaders are concerned. you know if you mention small community sewer system failures in a room but county judges mayors or what wastewater treatment utility leaders you'll you'll hear grounds then you hit where he will hear stories that break your heart good folks that had subdivisions the developments made and then set aside enough money to have sewer systems fixed. What this bill allows local authorities to adopt ordinances or rules to ensure the sound financial planning and operation of these community sewers sewage systems including reasonable reserves for maintenance replacement and repair. Essentially if the lack of maintenance to one of the systems can endanger the health of people in the community local government authority should be able to make and enforce rules that ensure funds are available for proper maintenance. This bill's been vetted through the social ation counties the Municipal League department health Arkansas department of energy environment. In a. With that I'll take any questions. Questions are a committee. See no questions you want to public to speak for against the bill we have no one signed up to speak for against anyone present. See non are you close for you will represent a pair I'm close to make a motion to pass as proper motion any discussion on the motion. C. none all those in favor say aye. All opposed highs have a congratulations bill is passed. So where it Senate bill six seventy seven. The. Representative gray run a bill. You're recognized presenter bill. Thank you Mr chair walked in at the right time. M. so this bill essentially what it does is it does changes it's a pretty simple bill it's for like adult day care for those I think with disabilities currently right now they comprise provide services to clients for periods of four hours or less per day for only one day per week and so we're essentially not have to be licensed as a long term care facility so this just changes that from one day per week to four hours or less per day for no more than two days per week. That's all the bill does. Any questions are a committee. He was under no one signed up to speak for against anyone in the public to speak for against. Say no wonder you because re bill I'm closed you have a motion motion do pass as proper motion any discussion on the motion. Seeing on all those in favor say aye. All opposed us have. Each year graduation bills passed. going back to the top of the agenda representative wing are you ready to present nineteen thirty five. All right you're recognized. Thank you Mr president doing before you started yeah I see you bring into members with you if you would to have those of member speak and we will not recognize them if they're on the far list okay after this presentation absolutely as bits confusion about that today so yeah sure come on people all right do you want to go ahead and introduce themselves now. These. My name's Wade Marshall and president Arkansas professional firefighters. My name's Kevin board system the state prison the Arkansas fraternal order of police. You're recognized thank you Mr thank you committee I was over in the Senate hi running a bill so I literally ran back here to be able to do this. During some of our most dramatic moments we call nine one one and our first responders come to our aid and they come to our aid during our most desperate times and then they move on after we they get us through our trauma and then they deal with someone else's drama day after day after day we need our first responders with the daily toll that they into or in our behalf can add up And so house bill nineteen thirty five it is a way for us to be able to help our first responders continue to help us the emotional toll can be excruciating day in and day out and the sooner that we can get we can help them process the events that they are witnessing on a day to day basis the better off they can be and being able to handle this and enjoy a long and fulfilling career in public service the facts of nineteen thirty five are that we are providing a mental injury to be a compensable claim and workers comp the claim has to be made within two years of the injury an emergency respond or is limited to three claims total for a lifetime and a total cumulative total of twenty six weeks of come of disability benefits that we have worked with the Arkansas Municipal League and also the Arkansas association of counties immensely on this bill we are very grateful for their input and they are neutral on this bill. They to recognize the need for some action in the EMS community alone as of April first of this year seven hundred and eighty three EMS professionals have not renewed their license that is more than double of the previous licensing period in two thousand nineteen one of the top reasons why is the stress during the pandemic. A hundred and eighty two of that number are paramedics and if all of our schools pass everybody that is currently in their class we would have a hundred and twenty to replace the departing one hundred and eighty two and that's if everybody passes the test our state training programs are only expected to produce that numbers of PTSD is having an effect on our seasoned pros and our ability to recruit and retain. In a related bill this afternoon on the house floor we passed house bill nineteen thirty eight which deals with the front end of this providing education and access so that we can help stop the flow as it goes through to a workers comp claim with that if I'd like for you gentleman please add what you have. Thank you representative Wayne create your efforts especially with the work with the leagues and the association counties thank you Mr chair thank you committee for a allow us a few minutes to speak I've been a firefighter for twenty five years as a paramedic for eighteen years I worked permitted rescue in the fire department private analysts hospital based Ammons I do not have PTSD from. I have had. Posttraumatic stress at times I've dealt with through all mechanisms that some that you're going to. DO with the bill passed the house today has a lot to do with my faith my confidence my job in my Willing to serve in my pride in my work I can't tell you that current workers comp bill is terribly inadequate for first responders. If there were three firefighters in a burning building. And I beam fell on fire fire a. In killed them. But injured physically firefighter be. LFR fighter C. on harmed but if our fighter B. and C. had a mental injury or they could not deal with the loss of their their their brother and their their family that they pretty much live their careers with. Firefighter B. that had the physical injury sales of barn or break Care Act cut he would be covered for his mental injuries under workers comp currently. But the fire fire that was there who did not get a scratch but had those kind of injuries that you cannot see the the internal injuries the ones of the mine. He would not be eligible to seek treatment under worker's comp. This bill only allow opens up the non physical injury component of current workers comp it's also more restrictive than say a seven eleven Clerk at the seven eleven Clerk was held up at gun point and had PTSD from that experience that trauma that is compensable because workers comp has a act of violence. Clause are statute to it so a seven eleven Clerk that doesn't have a physical injury but because it was an act of violence is covered under this a first responder who does not have a physical injury and is not part of an act of violence I'm sorry is. Is. Tragic is the death of a baby a mass casualty incident a terrible a bill accident those are not acts of violence so that leaves an uncovered. It leaves our first responders having or on their own. Insurance I believe that a lot of the opposition that representative **** was able to remove from the association of counties in the municipally was because they are not only cover the workers comp trust for us but they also cover a lot of our health insurance is so they know what we're doing on our own and the problem is without the workers comp. It's just shifting the cost. One of the things that we've heard about the the differences is what about the truck driver that sees horrible things well I can tell you that I've seen a lot of truck drivers that it witnessed horrible things. On the side of the road and truck drivers they do see horrible things. But every time I've been to a different horrible accident on the interstate there was a different driver but I had my same crew so we continually go over this in the instance that we. C. R. greater in our career than even a seven eleven Clerk for that truck driver. It's. When I took this job state president I really thought that mostly I'll be fine city hall really I thought to be going in there and stand up for my guys and all that but really what is turned into is a lot of cancer in the work the job done with us has. We're not here asking for any cancer this year but you're happy about that that Miller injuries suicidal firefighters that is a weekly. Thing that have to. The address for the membership in our healthcare professionals I call at all hours of the night to ask for their help. All the pass it on to. Thank you Mr chairman members of the committee for allowing me to speak today on this bill and I'm also honored to be able to sit here next my brothers and firefighter profession of the first responders to talk about this. Yeah I'm here to speak for the members of the fraternal order of police just a little background on me I retired from the little rock police department for twenty eight years of service I spent twenty two years of my twenty eight years as a detective and seventeen of that as a homicide detective here in Little Rock Let's assume there's a crisis in the. Law enforcement firefighter and first responder professions PTS the mental disorders and suicide as. Our current alarming rate in these professions I can tell you firsthand I know the carnage that that the tragedy. That you see in these professions I witnessed it firsthand And we like you we're human and we have to be able to to process that now. I can speak on the on the on the police side that it's ingrained in you in the academy that you are to take everyone else's problem solver but yes Is problems not showing emotion and. Basically to be Superman but we're not we're human. Just give you just some statistics on the suicide rate so far this year two thousand twenty one there's been forty eight officers that have been killed in the line of duty thirteen thirty eight officers have taken their own life and two thousand twenty there's a hundred twenty eight officers killed in the line of duty but a hundred seventy seven officers killed themselves. Two thousand nineteen there's a hundred fifty line of duty deaths and two hundred thirty nine officers committed suicide. Two thousand eighteen hundred seven eighty seven officer killed in the line of duty two hundred thirty seven officers took their life. Two thousand seventeen hundred twenty nine officers were killed line of duty a hundred forty officers took their own life so each year there are more officers that are taking their own lives than are killed in the line of duty. We need an Avenue to better help keep these first responders working keep when the profession and saving their lives and I think this bill will help do that no there's a stigma and and the law enforcement perfect profession I'm sure in a firefight a profession also that you you don't tell anybody for having issues because you're looked at as being weak you're worried about losing your job and there hasn't been a really good Avenue for peak for first responders to get help. And we're trying to change that stigma where it's okay to not be OK and what we're asking for you here today is for you to support this bill and protect the wants to protect you to protect the men and women that run towards the gunfire to protect the the the firefighters that run into that burning building said away from and your first responders so. I only ask that you support this bill thank you. Open for questions. The questions are committee members. C. nine we do have some members signed up from the public Staff right now room trying to get paper but I do have Randi's a signed up to speak against the bill. Mr if you would introduce yourself for committee and you're recognized speak against the bill thank you very much Mr chairman members of the committee appreciate your time and attention I know it's late summer but is concise as I can but this is a this is a very important bill in terms of Arkansas's employers in Arkansas's economic prospects and it deserves you're really close attention I don't envy of the choice of the difficulty of the decision. we put together a letter of it since hope it's been distributed to members of the committee but it. In just a couple hours this morning we rounded up some of Arkansas's Senate representatives some of Arkansas's largest employer groups including us the state chamber and associated industries of Arkansas the hospital association a number of private individual companies the Arkansas trucking association the poultry federation Arkansas all marketers the ACT council of Arkansas the dental association and a number of chambers of commerce. All are of one mind that this is a this is a significant fundamental change and workers comp that you really we urge you to consider voting no on and for these reasons all Arkansas employers with more than three employees are required to provide workers comp coverage for their employees this coverage provides a safety net to ensure that workers receive benefits and encourage no out of pocket expenses for physical injuries illnesses and deaths that occur in the workplace without regard to fault or liability currently under a law benefits for mental injury or provided only when they're the result of a work related physical injury H. B. nineteen thirty five seeks to eliminate the physical injury requirement and extend benefits to individuals experiencing only symptoms of mental psychological injuries while this exception is well intended for individuals employed as first responders the result would be the creation of two different classes of employees potential exposed to the same or similar events who would receive different benefits under Arkansas law. Additionally the costs for these injuries would be placed on all employers not just the employers of those who are receiving these additional benefits the result of nineteen thirty five would be substantial increases in workers comp for all employers. The qualifying events as defined in the nineteen thirty five are not extraordinary or unusual to those individuals who work as first responders we all admire what they do it is their chosen profession to render aid during emergency situations. Skews me however creating an exception in the workers comp code which applies to all employers in Arkansas is not a good idea why I recognize psychological injuries for these professionals and not recognize other working or Kansans an emergency rooms those providing end of life care good Samaritans plant supervisors or managers or anyone else who might witness an accident in the course of their work. A much better solution for these professionals would be to consider requiring their employers to provide additional mental health benefits through special short or long term disability policy or a specific insurance rider for psychological injuries that occur in those workplaces this is a very complicated issue with potential consequences for all employers in Arkansas and we respectfully ask that you oppose H. B. nineteen thirty five thank you very much I'd be happy to take any questions he questions from committee members. Seeing none we thank you today for testimony thank you Mr I have a cement the seal to speak for the bill. Good evening you would introduce yourself a committee and you're recognized my name is Samantha seal I have a master's in counseling and I have been working with firefighters the last two years specifically on mental health education. My argument for the bill tonight is to address the issue of mental injury versus physical injury in educating our firefighters and other first responders on this it is very important that we first define trauma and trauma is anything that your body or your brain does not have the ability to properly cope with in process in a timely manner with that being said It trauma affects us all especially these guys to experience it over and over again and they become very susceptible to PTSD. The brain is a living organism and as they experience trauma as we experienced traumas people experience trauma it changes the way we think the way we feel in the way we behave I came up with a little well I didn't come up with it but I started to begin using a. An example of our brain and how it works when we experience trauma each time we experience trauma it changes the chemistry the neurochemistry and the physical components of our brain in our brain we have the limbic system which is our emotional regulator and we have our cerebral cortex the limbic system is inside here and when we experienced trauma our brain automatically makes an imprint like a picture like a Polaroid and sticks it inside the brain and as it does it wedges itself in between the limbic system in this record tax that makes the brain disconnect important critical parts of our brain the limbic system is our emotional regulator this record taxes where we do our executive functioning it's where we do a lot of reasoning and when those areas are not able to communicate with each other we end up having major issues that are really difficult to resolve without getting professional help in the longer they're left there the more severe they can become as mentioned earlier not everybody experiences PTSD but it is a risk if we don't get these connectors back together that being said our limbic system is touching our brain stem in our brain stem is controlling the rest of our body so when PTSD symptoms are occurring when they're exhibited we know that there's a major issue within the brain inside the limbic system right here is our amygdala the amygdala as our emotional regulator it determines emotional significance to certain events there is asar hippocampus in there and that's our memory and our learning regulator and when those things are knocked off balance when they're not connected to the cerebral cortex specifically to the prefrontal cortex they don't have anything to tell them to calm down so they are sending signals to the rest of our body saying react react react that's where we get the fight or flight emotions with people who are experiencing PTSD we. Have to regular re regulate that and that requires a lot of time and a lot of work with a therapist and unfortunately therapy requires money and in working with our first responders in the last two years and asking them why they don't seek help for these mental issues it's because they don't have the time and the money. That being said. It's critical it changes our body it physically changes our body if physically changes the chemistry so mental health is whole health there's no difference in my book between a mental energy in injury and a physical injury the amygdala has been proven to swell at times when it's experiencing trauma in the hippocampus has been researched and proven to shrink physically shrink. These facts. Encourage us to look at mental health and physical health. It changes our bodies so to treat mental health any differently than we treat any other physical injury whether it be a toothache or pulled ACL or anything would be wrong and as mentioned before our first responders they chose this career and they do it day in and day out selflessly knowing that they are going to experience these traumas and they're going to compound and one major event may not get them but three or four or five or a dozen or two dozen over a career spanning twenty eight years it's going to impact them and when your brains not online when it's not functioning correctly the rest of your body can't function correctly as well. Thank you. Thank you any questions from committee. C. N. nine thank you for your testimony with that we'll call Shannon Newton speak against the bill. Few would introduce yourself a committee to recognized against the bill. Thank you chairman and member of the committee my name's Shane and it and I'm the president of the Arkansas trucking association I know it's late in the session in late in the day and at this point less is more And so I'll try to keep my remarks really brief just for context as to wires Association is more interested in this bill then maybe you would otherwise think we actually manage a self insured group that are Association and oversee about forty five hundred lives in Arkansas specifically within the trucking industry and so we have a vested interest in the workers comp laws as they relate to injuries in Arkansas and is fundamentally we're opposed to the idea of expanding the benefits that are offered under the workers compensation act I'm creating two different classes of employees who would be entitled to different benefits under the law and so I think that's fundamentally why we're opposed the bill we could go into I'm certain you know scenarios in which employees would be entitled to or not whether it's you know slippery slope or camel's nose of how do we define where the line should stop as to what types of employees would be expanded title to these benefits and so with that I'll take any questions. The questions are a committee. Seeing none thank you of representative Coleman your question you're recognized this in in your insurers do you provide the. The mental health benefits and some of your insurers. Currently mental health is only covered if you also have a physical injury okay. I see no further questions thank you for testimony to the committee with that we'll call Sarah Jones and Tessa for the bill. Mr Jones you would. In addition subcommittee and you're recognized speak for the yes Sir my name is Sarah Jones I represent first responders across the state I am a psychiatric mental health nurse practitioner have been for seven years and a psych nurse for eighteen I am also I have a PhD in nursing science in this but have been conducting research with first responders and mental health over the past eight years. Even more important those credentials I am married to a firefighter and paramedic that is serve North Little Rock fire department for over twenty five years and and. Maybe I'll be a little motion more emotional than the others and maybe I'm going to be a lot more science than the others to I want you to think. About firefighters of doing just and I can speak to firefighters more than five years running into a burning building is less than ten percent of their job. imagine pulling a decapitated body out of the car matching cleaning brings an organs off the highway. Imagine finding someone that had just died by suicide in trying to stop their family from seeing the same thing. Imagine pulling three kids that are per and that out of their house. These are all things my husband has experienced and there's a lot more that's just not his four top stories by any means and believe me please never ask first responder what's the worst thing I've ever seen it's not a good thing but I'm the one that's in bed with him when he's having his nightmares and when he's yelling and screaming now is he still on the job he certainly is because we he has learned to manage that but do I think that if you would have got help earlier if you would have had more resources and more time to have off ease PTSD of physical injury yes absolutely unfortunately we don't have the science and. We won't waste the money on neuroimaging every person we think that has PTSD just to demonstrate the functional the functionality of the brain that is impaired but you can look it up it is different and so doing this marrying him and finding out I've always worked in trauma you can look look on my background I've always worked with trauma and PTSD I started my own program a research and I don't know if she was allowed to share that with you all but the study you have in front of you with the study I did about four years ago with our state's first responders primarily firefighters and paramedics EMTs because that was my focus of my research at that time in just a few months two hundred and twenty of those first responders completed a survey that indicated one out of four of them would meet criteria for PTSD and one out of three were at high risk for suicide the suicide questionnaire was four questions have you ever contemplated it have you ever plan to have you ever done it how likely it is you will do it in the future high risk was answering two of those yes so out of those two hundred and twenty first responders. One third thirty six percent of them entered answered two of those questions at a minimum as yes and to me that is where we have been immersed in these departments trying to provide them with education trying to provide them with the help that's out there but. insurances are extremely limited I don't know any policy I actually on a private practice and so I do my own credentialing and billing and I don't know any psychiatric under writers for insurance I don't I don't think that's a thing the other thing I'm not opposed to other people I'm a nurse I've experienced psych nurse I've seen people try to die by suicide on the unit and and certainly wasn't traumatizing but it was one incident imagine those four five things I listed in the beginning experiencing that possibly twice a week having with a recent little rock firefighter who had three pediatric deaths in one month imagine if that's what you did for a living yeah they chose it but as a nurse if you ever asked me to not be a nurse I couldn't be in her siesta firefighter to not be a firefighter they're not going to not be a firefighter so I just I want you to take all of this at least for this bill sure nursing nursing organizations truckers organization possible organizations come forward I personally as a mental health care provider think we need to address PTSD in all professions and with mental health needs seeing the same as physical health it's absolutely asinine that it's not and until we get to that place we're going to continue have the stigma high rates of suicide among all of our populations and I think this is a good place to start for a population that really deserves it thank you. Any questions. From the Committee. C. nine thank you for your testimony. there is no one else signed up against the bill is anyone public signed up to speak against the bill C. N. nine I still have Travis Browning to speak for the bill. Mr rank you would recognize introduce yourself median you're recognized as being. Hello my name is Travis Browning I and the founder and director of heroes behind the line we're nonprofit organization that helps Arkansas first responders with PTSD and suicide prevention to give a little back story all who else I am first of all one apologize for the sound little funny your kind of a great body to speak in front of this is my first time so so far so give me a little leeway there I started as a cadet firefighter when I was fifteen years old I seen my first dead body when I was seventeen years old after that I decided I want to continue to help the public the best that I could you know first to graduate high school I joined the military did a tour duty in Iraq came back home we want to continue to help better I became a police officer in middle of two thousand nine was certified through our training academy here in the State of Arkansas during that time at the police academy I had seventy three other people that were in my class I was our class later and going through the class one of our instructors and said if you look to your left and right after year half you won't be here after another more after so on so forth more I can tell you now of all the people that I went to the academy with there's only about five that are still working the job today so if you take the amount of money it took to train all of us to continue you know being police officers why do we all leave was it because of the mental health was it better pay sure some of them but I believe the mental health game is something that needs to be brought into the open more and talked about more as Mr Marshall I believe said earlier as a firefighter he he doesn't have PTSD but I can tell you that I have encountered PTSD and have been clinically diagnosed with the disorder doesn't mean that I can't stop doing my job it just means that I had to learn a better way to to manage it and I do continuing forward in my career I became an EMT through the state into the national registry of EMTs and I continue to do all three of those capacities to this day. do pass on this bill would allow us to be able to come out ask for better help ask for you know mental health treatment clinicians to come in medications whatever the case may be and that's why we really want this bill to go through I can start just to say names of people that didn't make it but I think you guys probably get the just of of why we're here and what we're trying to get accomplished so. I know that the money sometimes gets involved with things but we start talking about numbers the only number that matters to us is the roll and that's the only number that we accept with suicides in the first responder professions. Thank you off you'll have any questions of a. Try to do my best to answer any questions from committee. Sinan thank you for your test might represent Miller just a second. Okay I'll let you do that before he close seeing no one else signed up to speak for against the bill is there anyone else in the public speak for against the bill. See non before you close representative Miller you're recognized for a question to sponsor. Thank you Mr president weighing. With this like a three part question we're trying to. Condense it. These these benefits the the therapy all that kind of stuff is that not already being offered. Not to my knowledge completely I maybe. You have a the all all out the same as it presented to come back that's a question that we should had earlier so much wager introduce yourself for more time for record you're recognized answer thank you Mr. Thank you represent Miller away Marshall Arkansas professional firefighters president yes Sir we do have private insurance just like if we broke a bone on the job we would follow that or workers comp if you broke a bone at home we would fall under private insurance so we do have private insurance under these the The workers comp tends to be the Avenue that workplace injury should be handled that it's it's all about cost the is Mr Dick said It woods if it's it's it's expensive it's Apollo money were worried about but there's but there's all kinds of expenses to this there's expenses through private insurance when when we have these issues go to or private insurance guess what are private insurance goes up all rights a private whatever the city has honest goes up where there be for the police M. S. so it is being offered there is a cost yes served just like just like if if you're injured on the job or off year due to your private insurance but on the job injury is in in certain ways either handle already on the job if a if a police officer even if he's not injured gets shot at is an act of violence or attack and then that's compensated will under worker's comp if I'm attacked it's a it's violence I can do it under worker's comp it's that principle of the physical injury that has to go along with it go follow up Mr absolutely. So with that. And. Would somebody who's who's dealing with this and obviously our heart goes out to. To anybody who is are they not also eligible for some short term disability that is separate from workers call. The. No Sir I don't believe they would be I'm not familiar with any short term disability like I have a short term disability policy to aflac if I get hurt then workers comp on the job injuries would actually cover that I think that's illegal for them to offer that but. I would have my personal sick leave and what we're having right now is these costs are being shifted to the pension system and so when the more people decide that they can't get the help and they they they. This call for shifted to the pension system Lotfi and so we're seeing at increase in people going a lot fee we want to stop that because that's an expense to our cities that pay and a lot fees expense on our members that but funding ratio goes down we don't see that we want to of the healthy pension system and. If we can keep people work the true cost of these injuries is broken homes it's alcoholism and substance abuse it's loss careers that go on to the retirement rolls way too early that are taking money out of the system instead of putting money into the system so that's the true costs and I'd say workers comp would be a very inexpensive Sturch to keep all these other downstream Problems from happening. Thank you. represent cloud you have a question. Thank you Mr chair. Representive wing sure you were aware that there was going to be people that we're going to be against this Was there any thought in in the the composition of the bill to try to have coverage for these two groups without having all employers of being responsible for the the price tag here. We feel like we we crafted it without that the the the ones who have the most financial of exposure to this we've negotiated with a good faith throughout this and we got them neutral on this bill so we have a very narrowly defined bill that specifically states who is covered and that's our first responders and that's it. Mr Miller you need to other questions. President Wayne. So as I understand what what the German here just said it's almost like. A cost shift. More less and and would you agree that this is a tale to share of cost from away from pension systems and so forth over to. The businesses who pay to worker's comp. What I'd say is this is an attempt to address costs when they're less expensive at the beginning instead of letting them grow into a much larger expenses down the road what we're trying to do is get get the people the help that they need sooner and the type of help is even less expensive than the physical help as well when you look at a traditional workers comp claim. Thank. Any further questions before we close for the bill. Seeing none represent wing you're recognized close all right thank you five like to dress some of the things that have been brought up we talked about is some of the opposition to the bill talked about how this is creating two different classes of employees we feel like we have very narrowly defined who is covered in this bill we've been very specific to do so the concerns about cost we have placed guard rails on this bill so that it is not too expensive and again the municipally in the association of counties who have the most to lose if this were to be too expensive haven't are neutral on this bill because they realize that this is something that does need to be addressed we're following the principal of a stitch in time saves nine if we can address this sooner it helps things from being much worse later the a question was asked what do we recognize these over others. It's very simple these first responders deal with this on a day to day basis it is there every day and while other people can have trauma in other fields we have narrowly defined this to just those first responders because it's just those people who deal with this on a day to day basis I've made that call I've made that nine one one call as a father in the middle of the night during an ice storm for a loved one and we had respond or is there within moments and because it was an ice storm we had cars at the end of the road that were blocking because of the ice they weren't able to get it was going to take a couple of days the total amount an ambulance got in a fire truck was not able to and so these first responder firefighters sprinted hundreds of yards to get to my house to make sure that we were okay. We need good first responders in our communities this bill will help us keep them in a position to be able to help us for a long time early intervention helps and that's what this does and because of the efforts made by our first responders to work in good faith with the municipal league in the association of counties the organizations who have the most at stake financially we can now afford to do the right thing. And without I'm close for the bill. You have a motion motion is do pass I have a motion do pass on the floor and discussion on the motion. See no discussion all those in favor say aye hi all those opposed. I'm going to rule the noes have it sorry your bill did not pass. So with that we do have Senator Davis in a room to run Senate bill two forty eight is that correct. You are recognized to run Senate bill two forty eight. You're recognized. Thank you Mr chair and I guess I'll speak to the amendment first if everyone has that. We have amendment for this bill. Did you okay it. Ugh Committee doesn't have an amendment. Can who's the attorney draft an imminent. Okay. But. Committee we stand in recess for two minutes to wait on the agenda on the admin. Amendment. Members we would come get our seat we're going to start in. Senator you're recognized to present a member thank you Mr chair. So this amendment and it does a couple of things first of all or moves all and potentially hazardous or TCS which is time and temperature controlled for safety foods from being able to be sold as cottage food we left it to be just strictly non potentially hazardous foods. It also changes all references that say potentially hazardous and non potentially hazardous to TCS which is time and temperature controlled for safety and and non TCS foods that's just what the FDA uses its what department help uses so it's just an they essentially mean the same thing but we just switched terminology so to be consistent all the way all the way through. M. we also I also put in that and it ensures that pickled or canned and these vegetables have an I. PH of four point six or less for safety purposes and then Adam we ensured that the department of health and still has the authority to stop production at the that's not be made safely so we just clarified that so there was no confusion on the Department help being able to step in if the cottage food is and not prepared properly or they're receiving several complaints due to safety concerns. Revving questions. Seeing none is there a motion for the amendment. As proper motion is any discussion on the motion. See no discussion all those in favor say aye. Oppose ayes have it if you would present your bill as amended yes I'd like to thank you. And so Arkansas is currently one of the most restrictive states in the nation when it comes to cottage food laws and so what this bill does is it just simply reforms are laws by allowing any food that is not potentially hazardous to be sold as a cottage food we currently just have five categories in our state and said this just opens that if we're selling some foods that are not potentially hazardous than and we should allow all foods that are not potentially hazardous to be sold under our cottage food laws in Arkansas. At this bill will ensure and it'll give us the significant need reform that we need but it does it in a way that still ensures the safety and the health of both the producers and the consumers and and it also just less all and necessary government regulations and the weakness in our local food supply chain as you guys and can probably think back over the last year has never been more exposed than it was with COVID we sought just total break down and local and food supply and we just don't need to let that happen again Arkansas there's no reason for it to happen again and this bill ensures that it will not happen again. Additionally this bill supports small business there is a national survey recently done and in regards to cottage food producers and the survey found that most cottage food producers are women who live in rural areas you have a below average income their median sales are two thousand dollars a year and their median profit is only five hundred dollars that doesn't sound like a lot of money but if you're making a below average income and then that's the difference in being able to pay some bills that year. This bill keeps transparency traceability and accountability and measures that are already established in law it keeps as in place and it also has actually stricter labeling requirements and that are in this bill for cottage food laws so I think it's in a way that we safely reform our cottage food laws that allows people to sell goods they can make safely and allows us to buy goods that have been made safely and also protects the safety of the public so with that I'm happy to answer any questions. He questions from committee represent Boyd you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair Senator Davis thank you for bringing this bill. I have heard in discussions with my constituents that we have more stock restrictive cottage food laws than even the state of California can did you in your research did you come across that is that the case that's actually absolutely true I've done a lot of research on what different states allow and of course every state looks a little bit different but and California is actually kind of expensive and they have and different categories of cottage food and so yeah we we are definitely more restrictive than California follow Mister chair you are recognized. Thank you Mr so is this bill going to help grow our farmers markets around the state. It should be yeah. President gray you're recognized thank you just a quick question I remember as you're sitting there talking about this I remembered that representative Dotson ran a bill earlier and early in the session that dealt with the cottage food laws does that speak to these contradict each other anywhere this year's what's going to explain that to me that this was actually more expensive so this so that bill he ran allowed and for people who are cottage food producers to ship within the state and then other states have similar laws this allows for shipping it also allows an four people for vendors to sell it allows for third party sales so and if you're a farm stand and or a grocery store or whatever you can sell cottage foods there and so this is more expensive it yeah it lets people selling different places besides just a farmer's market or just people picking up from their home and so it's a good it's a good and economic bill yeah. Represent Dotson you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr just in relation which just said there does allow for online sales yes it does okay. And in state and then other states have similar laws. Representative Coleman you're recognized. Thank you Page seven to start with the disclosures and information this have to be provided is this gonna. Prevent people from going ahead and conducting a business I mean I that's a lot of the information. For. Got if. Food yes so currently and you have to put like your name and address and then the ingredients in order and you have to state that this is a homemade food product so what this does is I mean similar it is a little it is a little stronger and what you have to list and which is name address telephone number and then and you've got to put like the common name of the feed that you've produced food or drink and then the ingredients which you already have to do and then the statement this state was producing a private residence that is exempt from state licensing and inspection this product may contain allergens so and it's just something you can print on the label and and again it's to promote it's it's to allow for cottage food sales but in a way that keeps people safe so it just insures that when people go and buy something that is a cottage food it's not right you know countries are not regulated or licensed by the state at all and so if you can look at the label and see and very clearly that it was and made in a private residence and it's not subject to any regulation or licensing and then to me that's the safety aspect of it and to ensure that when people are buying something like a cottage food that they know exactly where it's coming from. Thank. Seeing any further questions or committee represent Payton you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman I really appreciate you picking up the mantle and getting this bill straight as you know the original draft to had a lot of flaws and it looks like you've created a safe bill but do you think that this will help ensure that future generations have a better understanding of how to prepare food at home and that in the event of a tragedy where our grocery store shelves or our buyer that maybe there's some semblance of a little supply chain that could be ramped up in and provide for local food distribution yes absolutely I think and this bill does exactly that and and not only just help strengthen the local food supply chain but it also helps I think gives people an opportunity to be creative and start their own business and try something out and you know see if they can get a following and and sell their products not just to people in their community that people across the state and in other states have similar laws thank you thank you Mr. Any other questions. Representantes you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr I'm just curious as far as I know that the original version of this the Department health was adamantly opposed to it I believe if I recall from conversations that I had heard from them have you worked with them on this amendment that we've adopted that we haven't seen yet yes. Yeah sorry I forgot you guys I'm a copy. Yes I am I've spoken with them several times and and I will say that I did not include everything that they asked me to include and but the amendments that have been made and I think they are okay with and they're here they can speak to that and so and I believe it's fair to say that they're neutral on the bill at this time and which is a big deal I think we've come a long way okay Mr the chair would be possible here from the department of health on. Yes anyone here from the department health. You would please come to the table induce yourself and who you represent. Thank you all more department health. Jeff Jackson retail food section Arkansas department of health. Representative Dotson we have worked with the present several versions of this I think representative Payton had one and. Senator Ballinger had one and I think representative Davis now is taking it so I think we've gotten somewhere were weaker neutral this time we saw the Amendment earlier and we think we're okay with that at this moment but we do appreciate them working with us. Perfect thank you. Representative more you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr Gilmour Senator waiting and I passed a pop up shop for cottage food industry last session this isn't going to interfere with that and keep us from having pop up shops as it. Not that I'm aware of but I will defer to Jeff Jackson here he is our through expert you may be able to. It's my understanding from reading the bill that it will actually allow sales and retail stores which was basically what the pop up shop bill dead so this just kinda expands that allows it to do more it is my understanding. Any other questions from committee. Seeing none. Is there anyone here speak against the bill. Thank you for your comments. Anyway here speak for the bill. Seeing none red clothes for your bill senator yes I am and the title of this bill is is food freedom and that's exactly what it is it expands and Arkansas's laws and allows us to sell say food in a safe way and through a lot of different means across our state and it's a good bill and I ask for a good vote. This will committee. Absent board. Do pass as amended place. I have a motion of do pass as amended and any discussion on the motion. Seeing none all in favor signify by saying aye. All opposed nay. Motion carries the reservation center your bill is passed. All right Committee I think we're done for the day.