Senate Judiciary Meeting Jointly with Senate and House Insurance & Commerce

Meeting is called to order. About five minutes early by legislative time. The Appreciate of all of you being here today for this the submit Senate Judiciary Committee and house and Senate insurance and commerce committee meeting. The of always like to get started with prayer and pledge so if you'll stand of S. center been Gilmore to lead us in prayer and if you'll remain standing representative of Fred Allen will lead us in the pledge. Okay of automobiles comments by the cheers and I am good going to go to my co chair of representative Mark Lowery house chair of the committee on Insurance and Commerce. Thank you senator appreciate you of pulling this meeting together on short notice I know a number of us and hoped that we would have been able to extend the session to be able to take up the issue of employer mandated vaccines so I this will be a good opportunity for the public to be able to to be heard from from all facets of you know these are unique times and so unique that I think even the usual economic models that we accept and believe that that employers are the driving force but actually employees are the driving force of our economy and we need especially after a year of so many people not working either by choice or just unable what we need to do everything we can to keep them working and to not be burdened with cumbersome guidelines so thank you for conducting this hearing will look forward to hearing testimony. Thank you representive alright. The of those of you many of you who are invited us to be here to speak of and testify know that you are invited before the special session this of. They had nothing to do with the bill there. The. This has been a hot topic across the state we as legislators about lots of phone calls and emails. Robert recorder. And there's been a lot of misinformation and I know there were things that I believe to be true that I found it were true. And I thought it would be a great idea for us to find out what the truth is before the legislature of and for the public and to also hear the different points of view of a lot of times we demonise each other of when we we haven't heard what people are doing what they're doing so I want to have a a a robust discussion and debate today we try to get all the players that we could represented here lots of people probably in this meeting of attending this meeting that I've ever been at a legislative meeting before so just in case of a woman I says because you ever meet but I can be a very tough chair this is a legislative meeting no cheering no brewing of the this is a business meeting of and so everybody be on your best behavior of and I won't have anybody come take you out on so that's a race first warning hopefully it was unnecessary and I was just being. Of. To me. With that we hope hope for the consideration of motion to authorize appears to prove special expenses incurred by the Senate Committee on Judiciary so that's going to need to come from the Senate Judiciary Committee. Move got a motion from a center rights second from Senator Ballenger any discussion. Hearing none offer the motion signify by saying aye All opposed motion carried. moving on to our MD the reason we're here discussion of employer mandated backed vaccinations for COVID nineteen I will ask our first three up let me say before I ask them of law witnesses I think there's gonna be a lot to say a lot of questions about those who know me know all like to. What legislators get their questions and if there's any way possible. so I am going to bring multiple witnesses at a time so that we don't have questions for future witness except for possibly if we can avoid it so last Randi's look Tom Brower and Brad not of if they would just come up representing the chamber of commerce and employers. If you don't know would remain standing and I but I don't have. Of your remain standing. we also like to swear witnesses in. Okay so Randy I know you. And we have. Okay and so we don't have no I'm sorry it's just the two of you. All right because right now it is in the next group my my apologies if you'll raise your right hand. I'm sorry. Your first identify yourself for the record your name and your employer. Brainteaser president CEO of Arkansas state chamber of commerce. Tomber our senior vice president of occupational safety and health Tyson foods. If you raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony about it will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do you may be saying. Mr Mr Brower of we have brandy we have you on the list first but just start where you would like as far as What you like to say about the of employer mandated vaccinations and why they need to be done in a. But where the chambers at on this very good thank you very much and thank you senator thank you for representing chairman Lowery appreciate this opportunity to discuss with you a very challenging very difficult issue for all of us there's a lot of irony in this conversation today I'm referred to this morning's headline that we now have ten point one million jobs open and begging for employment For people. Across the country if you do the math on Arkansas share of just about everything economic that would mean that we have something crowding eighty to ninety thousand open on billable jobs in the state at this point again the most in our history. Many businesses I have been searching my memory over the last thirty forty five sixty days trying to remember one business that is not struggling to find enough horrible people it is an unprecedented challenge we're paying record wages wages are increasing on nearly a nearly a day but certainly a weekly and monthly basis so these are all good things This Is this is what we prayed for hope for a fight coming out of the pandemic after the trump vaccine created a gave us a life raft and into rescue method to to survive this crazy thing then we've all been hoping for this kind of growth and here it is. As a result along with that many supply chains or faltering all over the world goods coming from every corner to the US and our goods getting to every corner of the globe so all these things are problems that are being driven by the COVID vaccine which has been disruptive to business and to the economies of the world to put it very mildly. Nearly every employer. That I have talked to is doing all they can to be safe in this environment save for their customers and safe for all their employees suppliers an interest in or related parties. Despite all those efforts we have strained relationships all across the economy all across. Skews me all across the state. We heard sad tales in this room yesterday about nurses and the struggles they're dealing with a bad health care employees from the from the loading dock of a hospital to the intensive care or surgery suites everybody in that sector of the economy is facing unprecedented challenges difficulties that many are are finding it just too much to bear And or walking away from good and vital employment relationships. All that's true all that begs pulls at our heartstrings all that is incredibly emotional but at the same time at some point a time comes when hard decisions are necessary. When all you can do is all you can do including requiring vaccination for employees and this is the employer's right. Arkansas is an employment at will right to work state and we urge you we beg you not to jeopardize that or to compromise it in anyway because it would be an astonishing sent back to the economic prospects and growth of our of our state. The proposals are under consideration not only prohibit private businesses from requiring their employees to get vaccinated against the deadly COVID nineteen virus but it also they also prohibit private businesses from even enquiring into the vaccination status of employees. This bill goes against all of the advice every trusted medical expert both the state and the federal government and most importantly this bill as I said is in direct contravention excuse me contravention to our state proud history as an employment at will state. It prohibits private employers from taking the most basic and universally suggested precautions to guard the safety and health of all their employees and the families of those employees. And in doing so it also prohibits businesses from protecting their valued customers and clients opening up potential negligence claims by those customers and finally it would require private businesses to violate the guidance of the CDC and the US to be in violation of certain OSHA standards this is a box that we're painting people and if we pursue this path this would subject those businesses to substantial fines and other penalties. I mean it just a couple of points on each of the two bills that were there were Under consideration are are being proposed. The inability to mandate vaccines or require a back back scene status carry significant legal risk for employers including but not limited to the following number one COVID nineteen not guidance from the CDC and the Arkansas department of health suggests employers take different precautions based on the act on the vaccination status of their employees for example CDC guidance suggests that fully vaccinated individuals need not take as many precautions as unvaccinated individuals due to the heightened risk of severe disease and poor health outcomes from COVID nineteen for non vaccinated individuals. If employers then are unable to ascertain the vaccination status of their employees and they're unable to adequately assess the potential risk to employees vendors from. Vendors and customers they're also therefore unable to adequately address the potential risk of complying with CDC an Arkansas department of public health guidance. Second point. Excuse me. In a building to follow CDC an Arkansas department of health guidance also puts employers at risk for negligence actions by employees and customers who could claim that contracted COVID nineteen as a result of the employer's failure to take proper actions to limit the spread of the of the virus ACT five fifty nine passed by this legislature on April five twenty twenty one codified and earlier executive order the provided a shield from tort liability for businesses for COVID nineteen related claims under act five five nine and a business enjoys the presumption that it is not committing willful reckless or intentional misconduct and therefore enjoys tort immunity if it is quote substantially complying with health and safety directives or guidelines issued by the governor the secretary of the department health. The centers for disease control and prevention and the centers for Medicare and Medicaid services concerning COVID nineteen. That inability to ascertain vaccination status prevents employers from complying with COVID nineteen guidance and therefore exposes them to tort liability for COVID nineteen claims the proposed legislation would essentially moved to protections available under ACT five fifty nine. Third point. Stripping employers of the ability to either mandate vaccines or to inquire about vaccination status strips them of their statutory right to deny occupy accommodations on the basis of a direct threat it also renders them unable to make a complete assessment of potential directorates four point on that particular bill. The proposed legislation would strip employers of the ability to determine whether requiring a COVID nineteen vaccination is job related and consistent with business necessity courts have already a pale the right of employers to mandate COVID nineteen vaccines and to terminate employees who failed to comply with the vaccination requirement most notably Houston Methodist hospital recently terminated almost two hundred employees refused to comply with the hospitals COVID nineteen vaccine requirement a federal judge in the Southern District of Texas found that quote every employment includes limits on the worker's behavior in exchange for his remuneration that is all part of the bargain. The only other bill the second bill. That would require or even incentivized or prohibit a bonus program for vaccination. Point one vaccine manufacturers are immune from liability for unavoidable adverse side effects of vaccines under federal law I don't know the kind of cool to the site but I can get it for you if you'd like. Thus the proposed legislation creates a scenario where the manufacturer of the vaccinate of the vaccine causing alleged side effects could not be held liable for side effects but in Arkansas employer that offered a bonus to its employees to get the COVID nineteen vaccine could be held liable. Number two the bill does not contain any statute of limitations and number three the bill does not define what a bonus structure program is that's employers may unknowingly create liability for themselves by offering minimal or non cash cash incentives for employees to get vaccinated. And with that I would just simply Offer myself for any questions but to sum up I think there's plenty of legal evidence there's plenty of legal support for allowing as we do today employers to exercise their right to expect and set the to Senate and expect from clients with the terms of employment including mandatory vaccination for COVID nineteen we urge you to. Not let this can't get out of the bag. So you take any questions. Thank you Mr look of before we uh we've got several in the queue for questions before we go to questions I'd like to go ahead and hear from Mister Brower Mr Bert thank you for being here I would like to sing a number of other employers being here but we certainly appreciate you coming to testify today. Thank you senator and I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to speak my name is Tom or our high work for Tyson foods I have dedicated my career to protecting human life in the industrial environment. at Tyson foods the health and safety of our team members is our top priority since the start of pandemic we've taken steps to protect our people we have spent hundreds of millions of dollars transforming our facilities in response to this threat our efforts have included walks temperature scanners workstation dividers social distancing monitors we've established mobile health clinics. To stay ahead of the virus we implemented a COVID nineteen monitoring program that involves randomly testing thousands of team members every week. We've also been strongly encouraging our team members to get vaccinated since February we've helped more than one hundred on site vaccination events for our team members we believe that getting vaccinated is the single most effective thing you can do to protect yourself your family in the communities where we operate. While we've made progress about half of our U. S. workforce remains unvaccinated. Last week we announced our intention to require the rest of our team members to be vaccinated by November first it wasn't an easy decision but since last week's announcmenet approximately five thousand four hundred of our team members have been fully vaccinated or receive their first dose. Were of what we will continue to make the vaccine accessible through on site vaccination events to ensure that team members are connected to local vaccine providers we strive to provide convenient access for all team members. We also continue our efforts to answer team member questions about the vaccine and address any concerns that they have. Given concerns about the spread of the new delta variant we believe requiring vaccination is the right thing to do. And we believe that this decision to require vaccination is the central to protect our workers thank you and I'll be happy to take your questions as. Thank you both. What we're that come from. Okay the this is a legislative meeting there will only be questions of from legislators. The. Of thank you both we will now go to questions and of going to go to US senator garner. Referred to this. Thank you Mr chairman two quick questions first. The discussion days just specifically on employment for profit businesses at ten thirty which is passes last session cover private business for service and for other making is would you agree with that state ministers of. Say it again Sir I'm sorry what was the discussion dangers about employment as far as service. entry other protections within the law private business can not deny those things for vaccine passports is that correct. I think that was the bill you passed correct and that plaza private business is by your termination. Yes okay second question you mention where right to work state which I agree with. But isn't there a whole section of code and laws already on the books deal with crises for certain medical status as for example you mentioned the CDC I don't CDC website for guidance that if you as an employer or to ask a person with aids or HIV that under our laws in a right to work state that is prohibited in the vast majority of cases the CDC has a section on their website exploring that you as an employee have rights to be that privacy and not disclose that to your employer so is there are within our section of code and laws privacy's for certain medical conditions. Senate NO I don't want a lawyer up but I guess I'm gonna have to. I've got I've got my more like more in the room with us I'm I'm sorry I'm not a lawyer so I don't I don't get into that level. Definitions with it but I'm happy to bring my more from a private firm up to to deal with some of those finer points that you you you obviously need an answer to. That's okay. I think you move on I think my research shows that employers in Arkansas already prohibited for asking medical status when it comes to HIV aids and a host of other medical conditions I believe that the American disability act protects people from disabilities from being fired up for employment status as we learn in a recent case dealing with Walmart and a down syndrome employee I think there's a host of laws even a right to work state where employers have employees excuse me have the right to privacy so the discussion is it really the debate of if we has a right to work state will allow some iron clad principal to be destroyed by allowing baxeen passports to be included for employment it's more about two weeks in the protections we allow for many or Kansas to this very critical and needed issue thank you Sir. Senator Ballinger. Thank you Mr at my question for the first off with the for Mr Brower how many employees do you currently have. In the United States yes what no actually what it that was originally my question but but since we're dealing with Arkansas I'm an employee of an Arkansas probably more appropriate about twenty four thousand twenty four thousand at are you in with your with your focus on on health care of of your the employer it's surely you've looked into some of the side effects of the vaccines itself is that correct. Yes Sir yes with young people young men in particular there's a heart condition or what it's called that the pops up there's also to other potential side effects and and I think most people call the rare right they're not they're not something that is real calm. Exceedingly rare as my understanding so that have you assessed how many of your employees are likely to fall in that category. Before a team member would receive the vaccine they are asked a series of questions by the vaccine provider that would identify if their country indication for them taking the vaccine we encourage all of our team members to speak to their doctor if they have any concerns about taking the vaccine based on any of their current medical conditions sure that's standard procedure procedure any time you get the vaccine and still yet there are a lot of people who have experience side effects that correct. my understanding is that severe side effects are exceedingly rare right. If you assessed out of the twenty four thousand how many people you think will end up with because of this mandate will end up with one of the side effects I'd I hold just a moment up missed broke could you pull your my closer somewhere may have a hard time hearing yes Sir seven thank you. Yes what what we Senator what we have assessed is that the risk of catching COVID nineteen. Is far outweighs any of the side effects that are remotely possible that a team member could experience the the danger of catching COVID nineteen is far greater it is our understanding and any side effects of the vaccine okay but did you quantitative did you ever actually come down with a hard number of how many serious side effects you expect other twenty four thousand people no Sir I don't have a number like that what what I do know is this. This is what I know is that ninety nine ninety nine percent of the people that are hospitalized with severe illness or unvaccinated. What I know is that ninety four percent in I see you are unvaccinated. What I know is that ninety five percent of the elderly with COVID nineteen in the hospitals are unvaccinated. And what I know is that we have determined that vaccination is the single most effective way to protect the health of our team members their families in the communities where we operate that that's based on the therapeutic affect the vaccination right of your group doctors out to the CDC the now says that it's it's not likely to meet maybe even not even mitigate the spread but it certainly is not doesn't eliminate the spread of the virus is that correct. I am aware that if of breakthrough case were to occur that the likelihood of severe illness and that person is even far more unlikely with COVID nineteen right you agree that the spread itself is if there is any any mitigation limitations read that it's it's minimal but that I mean I think that all the the agreed science now ten star argue that it's their view that it prevents from hospitalizations but it doesn't mean what which which we've seen evidence with that what type of a Massachusetts what's going on in Israel right now what's going on just every other place that that early on did the vaccination where there have been spikes right I mean you you're not you're not arguing with this act correct. The faxes I understand or that the vaccine is highly effective at preventing see severe illness and when the approval was given for the vaccine it was Fizer emitter NO were in the ninety percent range and the Jensen vaccine was in the seventy percent range of preventing transmission or catching up COVID nineteen get you would agree they're not saying that anymore correct. That's that is old data and they're not claiming that it's ninety percent effective stop spread them I'm I'm not aware of that they have come out with a different number Senator. And we definitely need to move on whether people do things but. Don't you think you should be aware of your content if you are and and I appreciate your concern for protecting the workers who bunch of those of my constituents don't you think you should be aware of the latest science on it and I'm not talking about you know some whack on Facebook conducted but doctors out CCDC who will say that it doesn't that's no longer the focus is no longer on preventing the spread it's surely therapeutic and the fact that like in Israel that the numbers are going through the roof of of people who are hospitalized who actually have had the backseat that's why they're talking about a booster I mean if I think like you it is an imperative on you to kind of be up to date on the science if you're going to go out you're going to require your people in spite of the potential side effects that you agree that you state is possible that they should know about that. Senator I do believe that I'm informed okay and of what I said was I'm not aware that they have revised their efficacy numbers for the vaccine and I'm not here to debate the efficacy numbers for the vaccine we have been advised that vaccination is the single most important item that we can do to protect the health and safety of our team members if you're providing a religious exemption is that correct four four members yes Sir individuals that come forward with the medical religious concern can provide for an accommodation how do you how are you going through this year we are going to have to move on yeah I like it that's my last question how are you doing that I can handle that ministry to believe. Of we will evaluate those cases as they come to us. I'm I'm sorry who who will and how will they under what standard. How will the cases be evaluated right like who is who is going to do it and what is the standard for evaluating the professionals will within Tyson foods there are referred to the human resources through our normal combination process and they will follow their normal combination process to determine a combination thank you. Senator Stubblefield. Truss Senator Stubblefield again thank you senator Clark. Jim Clark. Hello we go to. Which is. Of. Do you do you believe. That the government mandates vaccine on the free people you believe that perhaps the sincerely held religious beliefs or the right of privacy. I don't believe it trump's the right to vote sincerely held religious belief that someone can make a. R. five case for the no I don't what is a bona fide case I'm that's right again I'd have to a log your opponent senator I'm sorry there there are standards. There are standards that for just a second test result I'm sorry hello this is so second this is what I mentioned before we started I know some of you will be emotional. This is a legislative meeting it is a business meeting there will be nothing from the audience if you cannot abide by that this is the time to go through those doors I hope everybody understands me okay Mister look you can proceed. Do you believe of an employee has a constitutional right to. Over the employer to exercise his his our constitutional rights. Whether or not wherever he's employed the United States. No I think the I think the employer has the right to establish the terms in this so use you're saying the employer what ever the poor employer wishes are preamps the constitutional rights of an individual working I don't think we're talking about constitutional rights here. I would think about the first amendment and religious freedom. This is listed in the building products there's an accommodation for sincerely held religious beliefs there's a process to if those exemptions are honored Mr Broward how many users twenty four thousand police with Tyson's. In the State of Arkansas Sir State of Arkansas how many how many of those above actually more than half more than half. Are you aware that on August first nine days ago that Mr Phalke. An interview on CBS face the nation in which he said that the hot that the level of the virus in the nasal Frank to people who are vaccinated who get breakthrough infections is high in equivalent to the level of virus in an uninfected backed unvaccinated person. I'm aware I did not watch that interview I am aware of the research that CDC has recently done that says that of the viral loads are the same yes and the next date your first time with the CDC data he was a Columbia University in epidemiology stated that the central issue is that vaccinated people are probably involved to a substantial extent in the transmission of delta. Anyone on the State Bank Commissioner vaccinations now about personal protection protecting oneself against of severe disease. Have you read those reports. I don't know if I've read that report but in other words the people who were vaccinated with the vaccine we're caring as much of the virus in their nasal. Cavity as were the unvaccinated people if they became ill so these people these half of these employees that you have vaccinated that are working in these plants is it possible that could be transmitting that to the unvaccinated people. If they become ill the vaccinated people are much more vulnerable. To contracting COVID nineteen them vaccinated people are. But yes Is theoretically if a vaccinated person does have a breakthrough case in there around people without vaccine those people would be vulnerable. People that are not vaccinated have a much higher vulnerability to contracting COVID nineteen than those that are vaccinated that is why we are in a race to vaccinate the on vaccinated to protect them and slow or stop the spread of the pandemic do you think the approval of the FDA is is important. I think it will be important for a lot of people the FDA has to approval processes I understand merchants to use all use authorization and full use authorization and both of those are rigorous processes that they go through. Thanks fifteen years would you agree with that. I'm not an expert on that so that that's the normal length of time but with what I'm getting is in Senator Clark I appreciate just one more question you know what happened in nineteen ninety five. The FDA approved a series of narcotics called opioids oxycodone oxycontin Darbus at all these okay you know what they told the doctors and what the reasoning was. They said that these are the best pain relievers that we have up to date and that they are non addictive last year we lost ninety two thousand people with drug overdoses by drugs that were that were approved by the FDA and say they were perfectly safe and non addictive. Those are just the numbers that we know of. We have watched families wiped out the FDA approved drugs we are I have here a drug that it is an experimental drug it takes fifteen years or longer to do the human trials let alone the animal I mean that's that's after the animal trials which I've really put on hold on this vaccine. And I ask more questions later on come back chairman Clark so thank you Senator Stubblefield are. Representive. Ferguson and then we'll go to representative right. Senator Clark is represented Bentley representative person seeks okay fine good questions of the yes representative but when you're recognized. Thank you chairman this is for both Mr on the other hand on the table I just got a couple of questions are any of you are aware that in July despite a hundred percent of the sailors being vaccinated on the Queen Elizabeth ship that hundreds of them develop covid I'm over here Sir. Were you aware that even though the ship ons on a CD by itself the president of the sailors vaccinated still. Hundreds of them develop covid we aware of that report in July that came out. Yep right yes I was where the news reported I'd sure rather a virologist or somebody who knows what they're talking about respond to questions of that sort I'm I'm you know I'm just asking you if you are aware of the report yes but the report okay are you also aware that in Massachusetts in Barnstable that was at an event there were four hundred sixty nine cases three quarters of the four hundred sixty nine were people that were fully vaccinated are you aware that report as not that particular report. That was just recently this last month as well three quarters of the people that were affected with COVID. Where are vaccinated and also the large portion I went to the hospital or fully vaccinated as well so they get sick very sick as well. Are you also aware that we have many cases in Arkansas right now folks with COVID that were fully vaccinated. And they're spreading disease are you we're right here in Arkansas right today we have many people that were full of accident that are have code. Are you aware that I am aware also that what was it ninety five percent of the people who were in the hospital and in I. C. U. units were not vaccinated. We have a I see you bids left available I really appreciate that and that's why I'm really working hard to see that are Arkansas our Kansans are treated early because if we had treated Arkansas Arkansans early when they were first diagnosed it would have all these or cans in the hospital very sick we're all very concerned about this please don't think that we're not please don't think that we don't care about our Kansas we do but we're making policy decisions for millions of our Kansas as a very very concerning for us that we do the right thing And this this route to fully vaccinate is not the right route because we're seeing is already breaking through we've got to go some other routes and that's why I sent a letter to the governor yesterday and pushing for us for early treatment because our early treatments that work and yet in our state unfortunately in some health institutes they're not doing anything. You get the Copa test and you're sent home to your really sick in your lungs are really sick and then they try to treat you we've never done that Mr circuit with cancer we say we want a stage one cancer sorry go home to stage four and then we'll treat you have ever done that the state that you're aware of Mr so. I'm not a medical professional so I can't we we I can tell you as a nurse that we always treat early in this will work and I'm not trying to say that we don't treat I'm not trying to say that we don't have a problem in this state we have a serious problem but I'm trying to say we have to focus on treating sick people and getting sick people well not try just push vaccines on people the truly not wanting I've got a couple questions chairman I'll be done are you aware of the reporting system for adverse reactions to vaccines the bears. Court or either of you wear that yes I am and I've read the report so how many how many Americans have died due to the I don't think the I don't think that report is an accurate It just I think I think it's like a motion names and it's it's I don't I don't put much I'll tell you when you look at the report I think is accurate as eleven thousand or something like that okay is also shoot you should what now that only one percent of people report adverse reactions so there's been many many more that were never reported I can I talk to nurses across the state that care nurses that are never told would reported how to report it and they're very intelligent people you think possibly that these intelligent people are looking at the reports and seeing. That there that the adverse reactions to vaccines may be worse than just getting cold when you're under the age of fifty and you're fully healthy do you think maybe they had thought about that looked at the data fully intelligent people healthcare people included that looked at the data said. I have a better chance of getting covid that I do have taken this vaccine you think it's possible some people feel that with their health and they can get treatment that they feel that way. I'm sure that's possible but I also would like to say that. The employers I'm representing today almost twelve hundred of them almost to a person I can't and Frank frankly I'm not found anybody who contradicts this almost a person there this is their biggest. Most challenging issue and they are they are torn they are emotionally struggling as our health care professionals with these decisions and they're trying to use the best available science the best available medical advice as we've seen in a in a recent a Facebook poster you to that representative that representative green would Lee put out it just it's it's it's. It's a very tough issue for all of us so please give us the benefit of caring as well and we're we're happy to reciprocate. One last question chairman this state and I I am I'm an employers will and I care but we have to look at this thing and look at it is it's moving rapidly we can't look at yesterday science or yesterday's reports we have to look and see that we have a break through the vaccines and I can say that some importers to the folks that are getting vaccine argument to those that they're sitting around this what they're saying that that's what they're experiencing so we have to look this is constantly fluid and constantly moving so we're here today on behalf of all our constituents that we represent as well thank you. And apologies to representative Lee Johnson for calling lingering with that's probably not probably not the worst thing he's ever been called but nevertheless. Richmond road. Thank you Mr chairman I to look forward to representative Johnson singing god bless the USA. I do have a question for Mr Serkin and Mr Brower referred questions to the chair at when you first called the witnesses forward there there was a mention that the attorney general's office is gonna be represented is there anyone. From the attorney general's office here or. What's the status of that yes they're on the agenda of the number three and four okay they're gonna come up later other right after them this okay all right all right thank you there okay My question is is for both of you gentlemen a personal appreciate you being here today to answer questions and and Mr Brouwer's instance if you could speak specifically to the Tyson policy Mr sick if you could address the business communities attitudes you perceive them more broadly my question I want to go back to the exemption question I know you mentioned that there was a religious exemption could you talk could could both of you talk about a medical exemption what circumstances might qualify for that if you what you're hearing from companies do most companies offer a medical exemption and then also I know that with childhood vaccines Arkansas is one of fifteen states that that also offer a philosophical exemption for personal reasons for moral reasons various philosophical reasons this Tyson or or to Mr is a other companies operating in the state who are requiring vaccines or who might be considering. Requiring vaccines be. Do they our our philosophical reasons is that a an exemption as well or being considered I have not heard of one I don't know about Tyson. No Sir. What is that on medical or philosophical about philosophical could could you address the medical and then the philosophical yes Sir we would advise the team member to bring of doctor's note explaining of the medical condition and then that would be evaluated by our team at Tyson including our chief medical officer for of the condition have people been approved for full for a for a medical exemption thus far has anyone. Will we just made the announcmenet last week and so we're just now collecting the applications for an accommodation so no no decisions have been made yet but the deadline has not arrived yet to be vaccinated either senator representative okay I want I don't feel some element number accepts exemptions that have been granted for immuno immuno compromised people with. All kinds of different conditions but you know if there is a process is Thompson. Okay request for follow up Mr. Yes okay a any time we want people to take a certain action. there certainly this. the there's the carrot and the stick if you will you know we can require people to do something coerced them to do something on the other side of the coin we can persuade encourage and even incentivize can you talk about specifically Mr Brower Tyson's thought process in getting to this point and then with Mister Sir just. In general the business community's mind set as to you know the best way to get the most widespread compliance obviously there's a there's a certain segment of the population that that has. Various reasons for not wanting to get vaccinated. there some people who are contrarian by nature. You. Can you dress up. Yes Sir thank you for the question of when vaccination first became available our initial approach was education education education and easy access. And so we work with our medical partners and local health department state health departments the federal government to create educational materials. and translate them into the languages that are team members speak their primary languages and to widespread education throughout the organization to trying in. Overcome some of the misinformation that is communicated on social media and other places to provide authoritative medical information to our team members. we also had part of that strategy easy access and so we arranged with local health departments matrix medical network hi vis a series of pharmacies across the country to establish clinics on site where vaccination would be made easy access for the team member during working conditions the team member chose to get vaccinated outside of working conditions we would compensate them for four hours for each time they went to get a dose of the vaccine on their own outside of working hours. We've engaged with religious leaders community leaders influencers we have established up here in Bastar programs within our facilities all in an effort to reach our diverse population of team members across the country and answer the concerns and questions that they have with medically sound factual information. in as I said we have carried this on four months our concern is with the rapid spread of the delta very in in the susceptibility of our own vaccinated team members to this variant. And so it was a very tough decision for our business to make but we have decided that the best way to protect our team members is to require vaccination that is not done though just as a blanket statement we have tremendous outreach going on right now we're we're meeting with team members one on one to answer their questions we're off also on offering the thank you of two team members of a monetary compensation if they do get the vaccine would offer them a thank you bonus for that on and we will continue to out reach to talk to our team members I know that our chief medical officer spends ten twelve hours a day talking to individuals answering their questions trying to get them accurate information we will continue to do that four four as far as I can tell because will require vaccination for new hire people so they'll have to be out reach there for people that come to work for us that aren't vaccinated. Representative thank you. The general business community as follows very much the same path we partnered with the Blue Cross blue shield and the Arkansas foundation for medical care to undertake of promotional effort of PSA if you will sort of of an approach to call vaccinate the natural state or we had Andronikos across the state to. Number one recommend people go to a trusted adviser like a doctor and get the best advice possible educating about the efficacy of the of the vaccine and the protection that it provides for not only the individual but for their families and for those around them including fellow employees and our business customers if they own a business that Senator. And others have tried all forms of variations I've seen everything from fifty dollars to five hundred dollars financial incentives to to prizes the governor gave out twenty dollar lottery tickets and twenty dollars worth of of the game in fishing licensing there all kinds of incentives that have been undertaken paid time off to as much as a couple of days for each shot up for the unlikely event chase that somebody had a a real discomfort appear discomfort following a vaccination so employers abuse have been very creative very aggressive and on site vaccinations provided I have done everything they possibly can to persuade people to do what they have to do the right thing namely get vaccinated. So there's still a lot of effort and energy going to both of those that. Okay thank you general. Central. Thank you Mr chair our Mr as a you will understand this if everybody else does not but of finding myself in sympathy with your position puts one of our reputations at stake I'm afraid because we don't agree all that much and I just wanted to from both of you all Sturch Mr Brower At Tyson. can you give me a. Examples of requirements that. the. Workers are teammates have to observe that aren't necessarily convenient. Not necessarily something that you really if people prefer to do but you have to do it for their health and safety and of Mr look if you would respond to that same question to I will I will just try to hold my reputation intact and listen to you okay. Thank you senator for the question safety precautions always require additional effort. And additional burden to achieve the safer State. That's true of wearing this mask whenever you're near others that is true of locking out de energizing and locking out equipment before you work on it that is true of wearing safety glasses for the odd chance that something could strike you in your online. there are requirements that you have to be fit to tested before you can use a respirator when you work at heights you have to wear a fall arrest system that can be burdensome to put on. In my career of the protection of people requires extra effort all ways and sometimes that effort is burdensome on the of the person to have to take the extra steps to take the safer decision of to be protected. Thank you. I would I would suggest to you that there are all kinds of requirements of employees that are in. Could be deemed inconvenient like. Showing up for work every morning at the appropriate time. working all day. At the appropriate price. His best Thompson using and following religiously the safety protocols and safety practices that they have invested millions of dollars and to protect their employees from injury on on this on the job. Following speed limits if you're a truck driver that's inconvenient if you're in a hurry thank you for your run eighty five thousand pound rig from here to Memphis there's a speed limit there's a limitation on your behavior there are all kinds of restrictions are behavior and requirements of our in our behavior made by our employers. Stay awake all day you know pay attention. do what do what's required there I don't know why we're we're we act like this is some New and mention to require. Protocol or help measure to protect the employees around you template to protect your customers if you own a restaurant for instance. Boehner restaurant I would absolutely put a sign on the door one hundred percent of the employees in this business are fully vaccinated we welcome you if you are not fully vaccinated we wish you'd done next door. You know I mean you can people have to do what they have to do to protect their capital investment to protect their employees and to protect our customers and they're all kinds of things that we do to to to. Defined acceptable behavioral norms and and all work settings well I I want to do is just a follow up by a saying that I in no way think anything that you said is you know is the same thing as as covid but I think it is I think what the example she give though are instructive and that sometimes we face something maybe like a Hobson's choice we think there is no good answer on either side but you need to come to an answer and I do think we have all kind of examples of when we have to or at least should with respect to anybody who disagrees you know do something for the common good and this feels like that to me and I and I live that and so I I I wonder If you had to make a case to the public and general Mr Brower that is in my interest perhaps as a consumer of Tysons foods. Why I should care about the safety. In your facilities why should I care as consumer. Isn't well thank you senator on well we're all human beings I think we should care about one another and their safety from of food safety perspective of course we want to be able to produce safe food so you would care about the safety in my facility because I'm making a product that I want you to body and enjoy on you should care about the safety of the people in my facilities because they're just like me and you and we care about each other as human beings. And we want good things for other people on our belief is that the most important thing that we can do as a company right now to protect our team members is to have them be vaccinated against this virus. If they are not we know that they are much more likely to become ill severely ill take that home to their family catch it in the market bring it home to their family. In a conspiracy the communities the most protective single thing we could do is to have people vaccinated. Well I mean that's my last question my last I guess what I just say Mister chairman I don't know what happened on the question but I I do think it is important that when we think about what our responses you know we're going to be that we respect trying to do the best we can to respect each other's positions. But I'm a but I I eat when I hear us say yesterday Dr Fauci said this last year he said this and I remember the scientific method even from high school and I wonder if you think. If whatever doctor found to anybody said today if they have new information tomorrow sure they provided to us or hold it to themselves for fear they're going to be accused of changing their minds. Do you appreciate having the latest information. I do appreciate having the latest information our if you recall the. History of the pandemic at first we were advised to not wear masks and then we were advised to wear masks and so I think that was an important course correction because I do believe that masks provide a level of protection for all others around the mask wearing even the mask where themselves so as. Information changes we should be looking at that information and factoring that into our response yes I thank you and don't make it a bad thing because we people change their mind when they have a reason to change their mind they should let us know that thank you Mr chair chairs going to jump in her moment of Mr roar you the answer the questions that you think it's important have the latest information. You would want the latest information whatever it was. Good or bad. Correct. Yes Sir are you getting all the latest information good or bad. Of I believe we are of we received the the CDC publications on a daily basis every time they. Publisher of a new study we have a team of medical advisors from matrix medical network the device also want changes in our approach in protocol should be altered all we have a we have hired since the beginning of the pandemic a chief medical officer that keeps us advised on our approach in response to the pandemic. I believe we to have access we have access to the information that we're aware of and we take that in. Okay because in a lot of them here all work very hard to try to get the vaccine Early on into the four counties that I represent tried to make it more accessible to different locales of and twelve. I thought it was important that those who wanted and that those that were at high risk got it as soon as possible. The but. I don't the dark I'll just tell you from just this past week I don't think that I'm getting all the information and I say that because I will on local radio talk show the talk about this this very subject and was advised as I went home that the management did not allow the hoax to talk about anything that might be perceived as negative about the vaccine so that would cause me to believe that possibility I'm not risk it getting all information about. Of about the vaccine good and bad can you understand how what feel that way. I do understand what you're saying Senator so the thing might be possible that you might not be receiving all the information. My sources of information or the centers from disease control the World Health Organization and the medical advisors that we have hired to advise us that look at the publications from the research that is being published that's where we're looking to get our information so let me also of. You mentioned just Waldo as an employee myself a number protective rules in a locking out. Electric equipment having the you know the rules for hyphen and different things and compared them to a vaccine mandate. Do I saw a number of differences. and maybe you can correct me and maybe Mr look two of. The. The walking electrical equipment the highest all every everything that was mentioned. I did not see any possible danger to me. By bang. No no possible danger but yet with the vaccine mandate any vaccine there is some possible danger. Amaral. Of I'm not a doctor but the doctors have told us that yes there are very rare cases of adverse effects from the vaccine. Right thank you of representatives Clowney. I'm sorry of representative will come back to us right we got Senator Hendren on zoom is next we'll see if we can area. Calling. Question for a prior. I want to say I appreciate you what you have done. Message of the importance of the vaccines are community I think there seems to be based on the questions I've heard today a lot of misunderstanding hi this is not required legislators correct. Can you hear Senator Hendren didn't level or I will relate all related questions we'll we'll see we can do more to that you can hear him or not but he S. he said posso does not requiring that legislators get vaccinated. That was his question to you Mr Brower. That's so is when you can answer no Sir. And then the next. I got that Clark and I guess I ask questions that seems to be we're going I want to follow up with your not even requiring you're not going to forcibly vaccinate anybody that works for you are you. No Sir. Thank you are saying in order to provide a safe working environment this is one of the things we are going to ask back require people who choose to work at our company. My understanding is federal law both in a Texas federal courts and at the EOC have confirmed that companies have the right to take steps like this is to ensure that their employees that they have a safe workplace is a factor. Yes Sir it is a condition of employment at Tyson and that is our understanding that this is within our rights to do. Five out of five international you do business that probably every statement I guess what I want to ask you is. All right. Like this bill Arctis. When you find yourself in the most regulated in the country are. Senator couldn't hear the question. Will you will try again Senator Hendren told me to repeat it for you. My question is is is that almost every state in the country. End of Arkansas works dot dot the wall art we did become regulated state in the country to do business stand with regard to how you can deal with. Mr stricter yes yes. Do you get that answer Sir okay. And records of any state get ready to be the most regulated a private business right I understand your be somewhat the. Ironic anyway that's all I have. Thank you senator representative plowing. Thank you Mr chair I'm here a lot of numbers today I'm here a lot about us relying on yesterday's data so I just want to share before I ask my question at today's data. Today the five most vaccinated states had five hundred and eighty people in the hospital and twelve deaths the five least vaccinated states had sixty six hundred people hospitalized and a hundred and four deaths. Those are numbers that may seem ABSTRACTERS' but numbers are very real to me were numbers in Northwest Arkansas over the last fall and winter when the poultry plants in particular were hit so hard with COVID Mr are could you share I don't know if you have any of those numbers on hand how many how many of your employees had to be or were hospitalized or died as a result of covid. Senator I'm sorry I don't have that information with me perhaps we could follow up later I don't have those figures but there were a huge number of taste and employees and their families and the surrounding communities that were impacted with that be fair to say north northwest Arkansas in general was very impacted by COVID nineteen yes ma'am and in your opinion would disallowing employers from mandating vaccines for their employees what would that be bad for the surrounding communities with that be bad for northwest Arkansas. Yes ma'am I believe that would be bad it would. Look. Of my belief is that vaccination is the single most important thing that we can do to stop the spread of COVID nineteen. Thank you for Mr Mister is a. Is it your opinion that if we were to enact a law like the one that we're discussing today Arkansas business and in particular would be less competitive and I'm asking because the human toll of cove it is huge you know we're talking about as I just asked about hospitalizations and deaths but when we talk about business of course we're not just talking about an empty building we're talking about our Kansans who rely on businesses either to you know for employment or to receive their goods or services and so would mandating or would it would enacting a ban on a mandate like this be bad for Arkansas business and it turned out for Arkansas. I think the answer to that is yes and I. In all of this is all of this is a moving target. I think it's highly likely for for instance that the FDA will give full approval for the Fizer vaccine. I think by the end of August but it might be the first week or two in September at which point. A number of people I don't know how many but a number of people are gonna say Hey it's now fully approved I will go get the vaccine. There will still remain though a number of people but best pole insane matter of fact this morning there remain eighteen percent of the people who say I'm not getting the vaccine come hell or high water I don't care if it's fully approved or whatever I'm just not going to so you've got nearly one in five nationally not just Arkansas nationally that will continue to refuse even after FTA has fully approve the vaccine the rich rigorous process. Following the operation work speed that the trump administration did so successfully to literally save the world I thank I don't think that's an exaggeration but anyway that's that's a very positive thing that took place but they're still going to be people who just say I'm not going to do and and we've we've got to contend with that number long term. but this time says is Tyson says. The best thing to do for the business community in Arkansas for the employment community in Arkansas for the employees in Arkansas of Arkansas businesses is to get as many as possible as many as possible to accept the vaccination. To protect themselves their fellow employees customers of their business their own family members thank you. Our members we're gonna go to one question of if it's a short question possibly a follow up Russian born. Thank you Mr so I got to pick which my questions on when a going to start here so Mister brown are of your greater than twelve thousand people are the I understood you to say greater than twelve thousand of your employees have been vaccinated so roughly greater than fifty percent how many of those who have not been vaccinated work in online or somewhere where they can't be kept you know sixty to parter socially distance whatever the the term is for that thank you. Yeah I would say of the. The majority of them work in a plant and those in the plant those jobs are more frequent where your online jobs and when you're completely separated so you would have barriers in between you and the person next to you yes. they would be plant workers primarily that are not vaccinated. Representative Pilkington. Thank you chairman Clark. Really sick you had made mention that you were hopeful that we would in essence have businesses that turn away patrons who were not vaccinated I mean is that the hope that we get a New York style baxeen passport means that the will of the state chamber that we put that in place no please that's that's not a position of our organization at all that's just a personal opinion I think it's and and that's very unusual right now for employers for businesses to require or there are there are businesses in town though that I know you say that's more regulatory in this I think it's a it's an owner's decision I don't think it's regulatory at all it's a decision by the owner to protect his other customers one new York passing laws to mandate the use of vaccine password and with that be more restrictive than what we're doing here no question about so Hendren would be wrong would be must respect it my argument is for leave the a decision with the owner let the owner make that decision he she can best make the decision about how to treat their customers okay and then for Mr Bauer you know I have a lot of Tyson employees in my district is one the largest employers I haven't heard a single thing from insys employees and they want this mandated I've anything after the exact opposite that they're where they're gonna lose their jobs and you know to me that's concerning it it's one thing to talk about well you know they can go find work somewhere else but when you have the amount of market share that you do when you're as big as you are. They have no other options and so what's you know listen I believe the vaccine I get vaccinated I tell everyone I know to go get vaccinated vaccines work this one works go get vaccinated but a member little hard time squaring with people who are vaccine hesitant specially those who are Hispanic descent who you know have a very you know come from foreign countries that don't believe in institutions like the government and I was faith in their institutions like we do here and even here release our faith in our institutions I mean how do I square telling and you know to choose between your livelihood or choose between this and by the way the market is so Cornered by Tyson that you have no other options I mean how do I tell them that. You know choose because I don't I don't feel like that's fair to them. Representative every team member that works for Tyson foods is very valuable to us we don't want to lose any team members that work for Tyson foods I would encourage your team members to reach out to the leadership where they work to get information and answer questions that they may have we are doing this to protect the health and safety of the people that work for Tyson foods their families in the communities where they live we would like to work with those people that are hesitant to help understand why they're hesitant now we might get them the right information we don't want to lose a single team member to COVID nineteen or because they will did not want to get vaccinated we want to work through this representative with Tyson be willing to tell team members that if they had an adverse reaction to the vaccine that Tyson would cover their all their medical expenses. Thank you do already we we we already have most almost all our team members are required to have our health insurance or be covered by health insurance by of a spouse or something like that the required to have health insurance to support is a condition of employment the question the question is if they get the vaccine had an adverse effect let's say they get hospitalized are you willing to pick up a hundred percent of their medical expenses be on the the eighty percent yeah I I certainly will take that back in of raise that with the organization wrote representative I think that would make some of the team members feel more comfortable because that's something I'm hearing from my constituents as if I never hospital have an adverse effect I can't afford those those medical bills and so I just that's just something I'm hearing from my people in my district and I think a lot of companies have done that representative okay sure deploys if you have an adverse reaction. Your medical your medical expenses are covered by the plan whatever plan you have we'll pick up the ballot okay thank you appreciate the. I'd like to pay you back on that and what also released to a lifelong disability. Mr look Mr brown. How about the picking up the cost of the I can't speak for members on something of that magnitude. Each company would have to reach or make that decision on there all the elector bill. Walls were widely accepted point of view on that at this point it would certainly be something look as overlooking a comprehensively taken Keroppi Center Ross. Thank you Mr of. You know we I've worked a lot of things sometimes unpopular of public because I think overall economic is good for employees and good for the state in and worked on so there is not that we haven't had difficult issue before this probably about as difficult as I can remember I can tell your hypothetical restaurant will be out of business rule Arkansas very quick. I don't doubt that a bill in Little Rock it'll go because there's enough people will drive it so some of the things business session do is is adapt to what is and and I believe employers have the first call that I got from the health the. Hospital the injured policy and then I didn't get any call from from once it was in my community that that didn't give me time to get information always frustrating I think you probably heard from my frustration to release from your your members the because these are people I grew up with these people that came out of high school and had worked for industry their whole life thirty six years forty years twenty eight year some of husband and wife I can't dismiss that. Okay dismissed from any industry understand our ends everybody. You know I'm just pulling fifteen employee seventy one year old family company when I switch from Labor Day because I've had people out with COVID thank you at work we got it off owner there other time but still I. have to adjust to that the. There's things we all do I know going back to Tyson has had to do that probably in slowing the line down separating doing things I'm guessing I don't I haven't been given any information on it and I appreciate that because we've kept things going so I'm not here to to. Push backs be at our backs I'll take anybody to get a backs back saying if you don't have a way to go and you won't it I'll help you. But we're not talking about a and we're talking about putting something into my body and I know we've done it before I member back getting smallpox shot when I was little so the walls can live back in and understand that initially Mr if you can give some information. That might be helpful you mention twelve hundred employers the chamber state chamber represents. Can you tell us roughly what percentage of what this is going to be the only alternative. And. Are they willing it's is going across state because it's really been in my area northwest Arkansas where it started are we going across state with this. I'm I would be amazed if employers. You know and if most employers adopted. Are amended policy I'd be surprised. You know I have my life but but I but I would hasten to add that. Absolutely support the right of those that do to do it I mean that they've got to make their own decisions in my mind I still Mr it is was so repulsive to me what I saw on Facebook because we also used up that these formally regulate take all. But this but this was from out of state one Arkansas. But with the comment was anybody then get the vaccine our line up in front of a trench in we know where that history will. This is this is the type of this of this. That is so over the top I don't know how we get beyond it I'll try to try to do it from my side I appreciate both of you because we're trying to get there but if it were. We've got a lot of people this is affecting. So why. We understand your side please understand those we represent hi regardless of what are per I do not envy you your your responsibility thank you thank Mr. Representive L.. Thank you Mr chairman for giving me this opportunity and I sincerely want to thank you all for being here today this is a very difficult tough positions for you all to be in. But I do want to make a few comments we are what we ought to talk about the side effects of the vaccine. Every group in America. Has a side effect it will be taking aspirin there's some side effect with that. But as we sit here today in the bay. mandatory vaccine for employees. If you look at what is happening to pass in the way we connect the dots we go back from the back to the front line from the front to the back. If you look at what happened in Northwest Arkansas. At the height of the pandemic last year. There were. Several hundred people of that law also lines working. And those employees. One mainly for. Employees. The minority employees they went to work every day. Not because they wanted to go to work. They went to work because they have to go to work that was the only means for them to them to make a living and to support their family. Now we have and the bait on whether we should have. The vaccine emergency. If you look at the number of jobs that Tyson and Walmart provides not just in the state of Arkansas but around the country and I'm to get to my question just a second. Those if Walmart and Tyson Tyson cannot get. I adequate workforce. Everybody in this room is going to pay the price because the cost of doing this this. It's going to escalate. And I think it's important that we. People in this room Legislative come up with some type of. Solution to a problem what we're going back and forth with the baby nobody's going to win this debate today no matter. But we are looking for answers and what do you think. Would be the best way for us to approach this problem in the best answer that we can come up with and I appreciate all the things that you guys are doing. I thank you. Are you asking for us to come back to you with recommendations on how best to deal with this. Is that the question the question if you have some answers today I would love to hear and I think what you're doing is taking a step in the right direction. So I will tell you I believe that our approach is very aggressive and very effective well here's how we approach controlling covid we screen people before they come into our facility for any signs or symptoms of code that we educate all of our team members on what it is like to catch COVID so they know if they have a sign or symptom we separate people when they're at work everyone wears a mask we sanitise our facilities every night but throughout the day as well. we provide the opportunity for vaccine we will be mandating vaccine we test anyone that has signs or symptoms anyone that has been in close contact with someone that has COVID confirmed and we randomly test a percentage of our workforce every day in case they are sick and they don't have signs or symptoms we isolate people per CDC guidelines to ensure that they don't come into contact with others to spread the disease if they have it are we clear them before we allow them to come back into work. All of the things that I just listed there are three that are fundamental in our opinion. Our own going testing program wearing masks in vaccination. Those three right there vaccination prevents disease if it does occur testing finds it in masks slow the spread. Thank you Sir. What one final question. Would you agree that S. the. Virus strains. We need to make adjustments just like we do if you play a sport. Absolutely I can give you an example the CDC had come out of several months ago and said vaccinated people did not need to wear masks. We debated that for a month we had started to relax that in some areas of the company for vaccinated people then CDC came back out with a risk based approach and said if you're in a sustained or high transmission area you should still wear a mask if you're vaccinated if you're in a public place and we consider our job sites public places so we have reversed that policy completely and that is based on changing and CDC made that change based on their on going study in case investigation and that's what we look for senator or representative I can't see your name I'm sorry that of that's what we look for to tell us where we should go with our programs. One that. Thank you just based on that last comment right here the both of you have said the. With the vaccine it helps families and. And helps protect others and in in at CDC guidance and and the director said with the vaccine does not help the transmission of the virus so you might want to tweak your your narrative there because the vaccine is not. The transmission. In the vaccine the transit the vaccine helps individual when it may not help others around and protect it but I I don't dispute the of the vaccine help an individual stale hospitalization and the of the possible you know health effects that that you can get but you know the CDC is not helping others you're helping yourself with the vaccine so that narrative you might might need to change in your in your Discussions the whenever we started this. I heard I mean I'm going to the facts and facts change apparently insights it started out with sixty percent was herd immunity. And then it changed to seventy percent is herd immunity and. And I just heard Randy say there's gonna be fifteen percent that won't do it eighteen so that eighteen well I mean you're talking about pretty close to eighty five percent and that's not good enough. So I mean the you're one hundred percent compliance and that that's that's not going to happen in the United States so sense and better land on something. That that fits the people here. I would just say I think census and that this one fits the bill or what will save us from this so it's as good as it's going to get that boosters may very likely be required by fall I mean it maybe later discussions but sixty seventy eighty five percent we're. Where we where we going with this I mean it. The latest that I heard from the CDC was it depends on the infection how infectious it is. As the when herd immunity is rich. You know whether it's by vaccine or naturally natural immunity and and I I would ask Mr Mair is is there any you know with the the rates of infection that you had is there any concession made for that natural immunity and checking for the antibodies through a medical the blood test what whether those were those antibodies are in those folks that have have had that we passed. The CDC recommends vaccination they don't of recognized previous affection is being protective enough they just published a study on Friday of last week where they looked at of reinfection of individuals in the state of Kentucky and what they found was that. Four people that were previously infected that became re infected you were two point three four times more likely to become re infected with COVID nineteen if you are unvaccinated then if you were vaccinated so CDC does not provide us guidance that natural immunity is good enough they recommend vaccination Senator. So. Much what you just said is the study had been done at the level of antibody level through natural immunity is that right. My understanding and I'm not an epidemiologist or a doctor my understanding is that the level of antibodies that are developed to depends on the severity of illness that you had in the first case and that everybody's immune system in their immune response is different so Senator you could have been ill and I could have been ill but your immune system is superior to mine and so your antibodies last longer than mine do it is impossible for me to know though in my work force who has a superior immune system so they have better antibodies than someone else I I have no way of knowing that the only thing that I can do then is look towards vaccination of my team members to give everyone equal protection so chairs okay follow. One one one follow up okay the. So if you have a medical doctor that does that blood tests and sees a natural the immunization process through through infection and Wright said in a letter. Could your team as as a excuse to not be vaccinated could your team over read that medical professional. Will we would use the guidance of the CDC that says I I would think we'd use that guidance that says that we don't know how long that that natural immunity will be effective at protecting you I mean what we do know is vaccine is two point three four times better than natural immunity of preventing reinfection so if you're asking a medical accommodation questions of we we are not currently recognizing previous infection as a disability that would cost you to seek an accommodation so if a medical doctor. Reviewed the antibody levels in individuals natural immunity you would accept that. We are not currently accepting that Senator neither is the CDC thank you. Mr Brower. where do you get the information about her where the side effects of the vaccine. I'm sorry senator could you repeat the question election CDC several times but where do you get the information about how rare the side effects are you said at least a couple times early on that the side effects were very room where you get that information well it comes from it comes from the CDC and then all we are also provided that information by matrix medical or expert advisors who are helping us with the pandemic the CDC has put out information that side effects from the vaccine are very rare they put out information my understanding is on the of frequency of side effects such as the blood clotting issue with the Jensen vaccine they halted of the availability of that vaccine until they had studied it and friends FDA head fully understood it and then they allowed it to continue with new controls around you know questions around who they would administer that to. You're aware that the code with danger has been very specific by age and health conditions the we're being told that the Delta where it strikes the young more of. But. Up until now ninety six percent of our discipline fifty five in a fifty those that are age fifty five and above of the four percent of those does it have been younger than that are the vast majority have had comorbidities of I'm going to I haven't seen the senses of your workforce but I'm gonna assume that most of them put that under fifty five. Especially outside those working in the office. Management. I Mark morale up I don't have the figure but god died I think it would be in on it we have some long tenured employees and we have a short tenure employees but I don't know Senator I'm sorry off the top of my head the age break out of the work force the but you are aware that COVID danger is very specific by age and health. The younger you are the much less danger there is the older you are the much more dangerous that is. I am aware that the of children's hospital in Northwest Arkansas is at capacity for children right now with COVID and I am aware that it is reported that the Delta variant is striking much younger people our chief medical officer just due to a hospital facility with COVID ward and she was shocked at the younger age of the people that are in the hospital I know that the original covid. That age was a factor but my understanding is that the Delta variant is attacking younger and younger people well when I ask you the question again okay because I like to get my questions answered. and I have right here in this folder the numbers from children's hospital the Department health is like pulling teeth to get on but I got a okay of and so you've been saying with great certainty that you get the numbers from the experts and now you're saying you're being told that there's more. That or to and so I'm going to ask you this question again. Are you aware. That is COVID danger is very specific by age and health. Yes I am and I'm also aware that the original COVID affected older people more and the Delta variant is affecting younger people that that is what I'm aware of were you aware that thirty one percent of the deaths were eighty five in a ball. While. I I don't have that figure at the top okay these are important figures and and most people don't have those numbers but you can go to the CDC website and do the math yourself most of us business people or math people so you go to their website and you can do the math yourself because the news hadn't talked about it the government had talked about it thirty one percent of the US of an eighty five and above okay almost sixty percent of the death of in seventy five out of. Eighty one percent of this have been sixty five in about. And then you come down and you catch me ninety six percent of the death of an fifty five AM now that's something that we really haven't share with people so people haven't known so there's been a whole lot more fear among certain groups in there should have been there's should have been a lot of fear with my mom and and some other people but some others four percent of this most of us me with eighty twenty rule for president this fifty five and under and the vast majority of those. Some serious co morbidities so but but the number continues as you get as you get younger. So and yes the Delta variant. Of that as I'm looking at the numbers are they are up for children they are up for younger people of I like it when people speak in specifics because to say they're up when there were this much and they're up to that much. There was a. Is not the whole story so is it fair. Is it fair to tell a twenty year old who's. That they have this in this in locking out electrical piece of equipment this N. that you've got to have a safety rope. This is that you have to have a vaccine or you can't work here and as represent Allen pointed out what people have to work. Four X. specially have to work. Of the so but you said although that there there's a risk of an enlarged heart and possibly a life long condition. And very little risk from the disease if you're gonna work here here's what you have to do is that fair. Senator we believe that the most effective of course of action is to require vaccination for our team members. That wasn't my question. At I don't know about fair or unfair we are incredibly concerned about the health and well being of all types and team members. And everything that we know tells us that the single most important thing that we can do to protect our team members is for them to be vaccinated. Mr Zork you said that if I'm understanding correctly that we got down to it there was gonna be one out of five. There will be hard headed like me. Henderson Gallup polling that just came out I think either you this morning yes good this will take the this won't take the vaccine no matter what eighteen percent is the number that they reached an Apollo no this is you know we lose eighteen percent of our workforce I'm sorry can we lose eighteen percent were workforce we can't lose two percent of our workforce we we're we're we're in deficit on a work force we've got ninety thousand open jobs in Arkansas today because I was pretty neutral on this you know people calling me and I said you know some relationship or an employer. An employee and. Are there not a got wind that maybe we were we were telling vendors and of subcontractors that. What they had to do in a civil. It businesses can regulate against government can regulate the you'll agree with that right business can regulate other businesses and government can regulate businesses businesses not regulating other businesses businesses are saying if you're gonna supplying me and cash my checks. Then I'm going to expect of compliance from unit but that that's not regulating and that's just to another to another company to another company right with that is that that is friendly the of. The So we don't have a problem with that of. The fact is represented well ahead that the poor have to go to work. So. The. Again and then I was because and also was fairly neutral because I said you know these people may have financial reasons they may have all kinds of other reasons and then somebody sent me the recording of the. Your chambers and then I'm assume as well right. chamber I'm not sure that the J. Chester good friend of mine was. And was running the meeting and it was all about how we can do this it was hell but we can punish employees how will because we want against all we're doing we're trying to do what's best for people of and it all started with the colonel who is over the code only code task force runs a covert task force any started off talking about the pathway of trust. And I thought. Boy that's that tell you so may I mean I'm a salesman and the first thing you do any any ever sells when those the number one thing that people by me is they got to believe in me I gotta tell you I walk in and say here's what you're going to do. They don't bother me they don't trust me and so I'm trying to figure out how we we went from pathway of trust. Two mandates to save people. The. I'm gonna ask both of you start with you Mr Barr. What's your experience with this latest wave of covid. What's your experience with the with your workforce absenteeism for covert except for with this great way. in general we see cases going and we see cases going up. More quickly in lower vaccinated communities and lower vaccinated team member population areas. With that I think is an acceptable argument I haven't. Of I have to tell you that of we I have a both in my business or those around me we we do see more people across the state getting cold with a don't see more people of our work people are free to contact me like they've been contacting me saying that you Mr look doesn't speak for all of and I'm sure he speaks for the majority of the chamber but there were some very incensed people of St we're very much against this but that. But. What you can do with your business I very much respect It just. It but you really do as as Senator Rawson Mr look talk about you put us in a place. We have to come back we are we hands off. Or do we look at this and say and I guess I have to ask what else would we do what else would we mandate for for what's good for people I mean if we had a lot of gun violence do we do we do we start looking at our employees and guns. Of the verses a second man and I just have to I have to wonder of because. And I know the joke or truly convinced that this is the right thing and I was more here's what concerns me I was more convinced it was the right thing. Until the mandates. Until was told we can say anything negative on the air. And then I said well. If it any the truth always holds up to scrutiny. And in truth you can sell and people will buy. You know communism you have to force. You know those type but is yet to fourth not not capitalism not freedom. Not democracy. And so. You know I've gone from being pretty pro back saying to raise my Bros and I think you'll should could really consider what. The effect this is having of whether we're really causing people to want to get on board or not I think we're having very negative consequences of to what we're doing. Of. We go to centers Stubblefield and one more and we've got to move to the next witness. Thank you senator Clark. German. You talking about in August one year ago this month this week in fact CDC released data showing that COVID nineteen. Was the only calls mentioned in just six percent of the death up to that time. In other words ninety four percent of people who had died of COVID had additional conditions or causes per death the average being two point nine additional conditions or because his per death some of the most common were diabetes. Cardiovascular innovation. You think we should regulate those. Put those. Exemptions in their. Do you think your site if you don't lose some weight. And starting eating good you're not gonna worker anymore. Since we've been sitting here Mr took off at six tax from businesses all of the state of Arkansas two of them right of large businesses you know what they tell me the tax. The misters does not represent all the businesses in the state of Arkansas all of the upgrade will be the first to admit that there a lot of people we have been adversely joints Mr Bernard can you tell me one reputable study on FC a mask preventing pathogen. I can't quoted but their office because there are studies out there that showed that wearing even the paper surgical style masks prevents me from. I sing of droplets when I agree either when I call on toward you yes those studies do exist I just don't have one of my fingers the only mass that is has any efficacy at all the N. ninety five respirator most people do not use those kids were handkerchiefs around face in fact I saw some coming in here today this master very ineffective in preventing a passion let me ask you just one more question and I'm done. Is any of you if any one of you you represent all these businesses Mr Mister Brau you represent Tyson's largest B. production United States if any of you or your company or your organization's made a statement or come out with a statement on what's happening in our southern border we have hundreds of thousands if not millions coming across that border that are positive for covid there are not many are not tested. None are vaccinated in their carry to the interior of the United States if any of you want your company to come out and said anything about the dangers. Or the crisis is happening down there. We're in communication day Senator with our compression of delegation and other agencies what can't you make a state which on your own I'll make a statement all day long but you know that five dollars and get a Cup of coffee at Starbucks usually. But but patient steady. Thanks the border fix the border communication goes on all day every day out of our office and every every other office I know of the state or metropolitan community chamber. Well I find that very responsible because you know it takes we've got to start speaking up against what we know what is wrong if people do not speak up we're gonna lose this whole thing. We do there's a lot of people know what from what in companies like yours in organizations like yours need to speak out in strongly against what's happening to our country especially our open border policy. Degree under president thank you so we need to move on Senator Stubblefield representative was from. Thank you I'm this is for Mr Bower and then have one from Mister said we've been getting text appears you can imagine a lot of people are watching this all across the state and one of them is from a constituent Beckham aye aye representative Lundstrum you're my state representative I am a current Tyson employee and I'm strongly against the corporate mandate several corporate positions can be done remotely we did it for one point five years what Tyson consider working remotely so that they don't have to choose between a vaccine that they aren't sure about. At least until the FDA approves or we get more information more data. All of these people truly love working for Tyson that that's says a lot about the company so that's their first question why not have an option for working remotely obviously these people enjoy working for Tyson. Yes ma'am individuals apply for an accommodation for medical or religious beliefs then of working from home would be one type of accommodation that would be considered. If it if it fits the job. I'll keep going obviously they've have bright employees as well what happens if the corporation of holds a mandate and are left with only vaccinated employees and still have COVID positive cases invariant outbreaks. And what is or what will re roll up into the mandate in the near future there's no written policy currently right now they say they have proof of full vaccination. Emergency use vaccinations that are not FDA approved. And it's not slowing the spread of the variance if Tyson say's says they're following the CDC guidelines and if this fall the CDC boosters. If this fall the boosters are recommended well they have the will we have to do that as well how long will this go on obviously they're watching and obviously they care yes ma'am and I care about them to. there were a lot of questions about the boosters and how long will this continue what we just keep going on and on and on. It's hard to predict where COVID nineteen will and and how the pandemic will finally come to an end. Of we will wait for of the FDA and the CDC to advise us about boosters and when when they do we will then have to evaluate them and make a decision so they're not there yet there's no advice on them yet in our doctors would have to look at that. Okay thank you misters Mr Seki mentioned that we had a obviously a staff ace so obviously it doesn't and you mentioned we have a staffing problem in the state eighty to ninety thousand jobs and nursing came up at the very beginning of this conversation I want to circle back and in their nurses at the beginning beginning of this epidemic we're obviously terrified but they still showed up for work anyway. And now hospitals are saying you have to get the mandated vaccine we have hospitals now in Northwest Arkansas one of our hospitals had twenty nurses decide to take early retirement and another hospital today talking to a nurse said they're leaving they're going so nurses are leaving. And we have a nursing shortage. Why would we not want to keep these nurses that showed up when they had it we had a pandemic and we didn't know what to do. Why would we want to lose those nurses. I don't think anybody does want to lose them I don't I don't see anything that's inconsistent with. With what one. Why don't want to get what regional and mercy up systems of both. Mandated the vaccines and given a period of time to to get the vaccine well I certainly don't wanna lose anybody because there's they're they're they're shorthanded they're they're they're out of their out of capacity based on their on their staffing levels so the thank you note that we give them for showing up when they didn't know what was going on is. See if you to want to get the vaccine you're out here I wouldn't interpret it that way things have changed the the information that the management has the information that the medically medical officials have is different today than it was then and. That I'm sorry nurses have live that all along they've lived I get that but they've got more information better information and making the best possible decision making money should make let the nurses need to make the best possible suspicions they should make to we pay them to make the best possible decisions and they're making the best possible decision for their health. And they don't agree they want some of the nurses that have talked to me and said we want to wait a year we want to get pregnant there's a lot of different good valid reasons for waiting we can't afford to be so frivolous with good quality health. And I just find it wasteful that we would actually have we spent one point two million we've agreed to do this I believe it was yesterday to bring in nurses from out of state. To make up for the nursing soars we're gonna have here in Arkansas because we are wise enough to keep good quality people. So just I'm I'm just flummoxed at a if you have any great so I I don't I don't have any great solutions it's a tough situation well like you said five dollars. Those that are there to make those decisions same here thank you. Mister's up missed bro thank you for being here today. we going to have to move on to the legal part of our discussion I don't know if the attorney general's office is still here they were I have to leave early and we thought we had we we get him up in plenty of time when we first talked thank you senators and members Richard thank you all we're gonna ask read nine Brian Boland and rock sthan book to come forward. The German of Startin with Mister John what. To my left your right uh give us your names and where you're employed. My name is Robert. Law I appear in my personal capacity my views are not necessarily those of mine. My name is Brian bow and I'm the chief of staff for Attorney General Leslie Rutledge. My name is Brad nine the legislative director and senior adviser for the attorney general's office if you would raise your right hand. Do you so much for affirm that the testimony about it will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I can't I do it it was it down unless the turning general's office to go first. The end of the process of of the legal issues what the law is as far as employer mandates in Arkansas. Especially with back scenes. Sure thank you Mr chairman members of the committee. I guess let me start by clarifying that we're talking about employers we are talking about two distinct buckets of employers. The law as to a state actor so a state employer federal employer is going to be a little bit different than the law as to a private employer which I understand to be the. The main issue here before the committee today and. I'll just briefly say that. Some of my colleagues at present approved preceded us today. No the I got the issue squarely Rights Arkansas is an at will employment state. We have been at will employment state for some period of time and there is plenty of context plenty of of case history out there that says that requiring an employee to undertake. Some additional obligation it can be a. Continued requirement of employment so if a. Private again a private employer were to indicate that. To continue in your employment that you receive the. Baxeen or whatever the case may be then that employee Under normal circumstances could be terminated if they did not follow through with that either from their employer now that being said I mean there are. Other exceptions that come into play and I think we we got into those a little bit earlier I mean there are accommodations under the Americans with disabilities act perhaps you have a health concern that precludes you from getting the vaccine your employer would then need to. Engage you in what we call the interactive process. To figure out what accommodation they can come up with that would allow you to continue to do what we would call the essential functions of your job without receiving a vaccine. Others also. Going to be religious exemptions if you are a practitioner of a faith that doesn't believe. In receiving a vaccine or perhaps that has issues with the ingredients in the vaccine if you were to let your employer that as well then you would have an exemption from a religious standpoint as well so I mean that that that I think is. This state of the law in Arkansas in a nutshell and I think I'll leave it there and just reserve time for questions if that's okay Mr. Okay is that for both for you okay Mr samba. As I said my name is Robert Steinberg and I'm a law professor and I appear in my individual capacity. I'm here to talk about the constitutionality in lieu legality of mandates we're focusing on masking vaccine mandates but of course the issue is much broader. The issue raises the core principle of our system of government that is freedom. Fortunately analyzing these issues is not as simple as it may appear. Addressing constitutionality legality requires at least see three separate analyses first what is that Mr what would you pull them up closer please yes Sir. What does the relevant law say that is what to the state and federal constitutions say what the statutes say. Second what do the judicial precedents say as they are not always consistent with the plain wording of constitutions as well a statute. And whether or not you believe the president should have legal force courts typically do so as a positive analysis of law requires this evaluation third and finally what is the effect of politics on judicial interpretations here in Arkansas politics often overwhelms judicial opinions it shouldn't but if we're analyzing the real world effect of the law we must evaluate what judges actually do. Let me begin by saying that I know some like to talk about the science of vaccines and masks as the legal I put in quotes basis to impose their preferences on and on and allegedly free people. And let me further made clear that I liked vaccines I was one of the earliest recipients of the vaccine here in Arkansas and I often wear Mascarita masking N. ninety five mask not the virtue signaling or Adami devices that are the fashion statements of the Hillcrest glitterati in the light. The team that decided whether I was vaccinated as the team of me no other team decided that the team that decided why vote for is the team of me. The team that decides how I live my life is the team of me. I recognize the importance of individual autonomy we used to refer to this constitutional concept this civil liberties and the left was once the vanguard. Defending civil liberties no longer that's the case unfortunately. To some sign supports mandating masks and vaccines but somehow. Science doesn't support that fetuses are life to some sign supports mandating masks and vaccines but somehow science doesn't support enforcing our borders as a means to reduce the inflow of covert. To some sign supports mandating masks and vaccines but somehow science doesn't support disbursing anti police moms to reduce reduce the spread of covid. To some sign supports mandating massive vaccines but some have science doesn't support the notion that there are biological differences between men and women. To have the discussion about the constitutionality and legality of mandates we need to address how the law operates when judges and the executive branch uses it as a tool for their political agendas let's reflect on what has happened recently. The United States Supreme Court said that it's unconstitutional to mandate in the fiction moratorium on landlords. President Biden initially accepted this. But when faced with a backlash from the what left he we issued an indisputably unconstitutional mandate that's not law that's politics but that's what passes for low these days. When our governor issued a mass mandate last year which necessarily included orders to counties in courts some said the governor's actions were illegal in suit. The result was judge Wendell Griffen said the governor's mandate was legal. Judge Griffin said that the governor's actions were consistent with the state statute and state and federal constitutions and of course the outcome resulted in a mandate that affected courts and affected counties. The outcome was also consistent with judge Griffen's political preferences. Well fast forward to recently as you know this legislature passed a law. Senator garners a law. That makes masks and vaccines are prohibits the mandating of masks and vaccines and public entities including counties in court the same way the mandate that required it. Several months prior mandated. Moreover this mandate was fully passed by the legislature and signed by the governor in other words it wasn't an executive order it wasn't some form of low light it was one hundred percent certified Angus Law. There's no greater reflection of the democratic process enshrined in the constitution than those laws enacted by this body and signed by the governor. So what happened next judge Tim fox. Whitaker partisan who wears a judicial roe said that this mandate for freedom. This mandate that protect civil liberties violates the powers reserved in the Arkansas constitution to counties in courts. Think about that. This mandate violated the rights of counties in courts but the mandate that told counties in court you must wear masks no violation. What's the common denominator politics not law. Excuse me. LARP to these days is simply means to a political eight. This unfortunately is an outgrowth of what we've seen over the last twenty or thirty years in legal education known as critical legal studies. Which is also which is a neo Marxist ideology born on college campuses which also gave birth to what's now a controversial topic critical race theory. So called critical theories abandon reason for power as such laws merely a tool to effectuate outcomes there's no right or wrong just good or bad includes not a moral concept it's a personal preference. So the predicting the constitutionality and legality of mandates as I've been asked to do. Becomes increasingly difficult because it's not a legal analysis. It's an exercise in politics. Objectively we can say that the law permits mandates in certain circumstances and not others but that's not much of a statement of all at all. The well known case of Jacobson versus Massachusetts the US Supreme Court held that the state could find those who didn't get a vaccine notably the issue wasn't the fourth vaccination just whether those refusing could be financially penalized. So this case offer some support for the notion that under certain circumstances and since courts have held that states can penalize those not complying with public health regulations. The seventh circuit. U. S. court of appeals recently held that public universities could condition I or education on vaccine status. In the private sector course businesses are not bound by constitutional restrictions they are bound by statutory project up provisions such as title seven. Private businesses aren't permitted to control the behavior of their employees so long as they don't violate statute as senator garner pointed out. Of course will status is not altered one way or the other by whether the legislature. Creates restrictions on the terms of employment. It doesn't restrict whether. And employees held at will or must be employed for cost. So what do we do if we recognize. For example that the actions of this legislature recently taken an overturned by judge fox we're clearly constitutional. How do we address the lack of law in executive actions in judicial determinations these days. Well here's what I'm doing. As a conservative. As a lawyer as a law professor I believe it's necessary to restore the authority of the legislature. To remove the anti democratic interference of political activists in judicial robes. So I filed two cases so far seeking to have the will of the legislature and forced. Course these cases are filed in court subjecting me to the possibility of joining a political activist in a rope. But I fully intend to litigate these cases up to the Supreme Court sure the outcome is far from certain but I will work within the system and I hope that ultimately our Supreme Court elected by the people of this great state we'll do a better job than the limousine left holding court both literally and figuratively on west Markham street. The first case seeks to have the courts respect the law that this legislature enacted that permits lawyers as officers of courts to carry firearms in courthouses Act ten eighty seven of twenty seventeen. In the second case I filed yesterday seeks to have municipalities allow holders of enhanced concealed carry licenses carry the concealed firearms in city buildings just like they may here in the capital as guaranteed by the recently enacted ACT twenty ten twenty four written by Bob Ballinger. Tie time that leftist judges in localities stop thumbing their noses at the constitution of this state and the will of the people as expressed by the most democratic body that is the legislature. In both of these cases the plaintiff is freedom loving art Arkansas attorney Crisco or but. Chris is in the gallery here today you might have seen his mobile office driving around Conway or little rock you probably heard on the radio with me and you'll soon see number six you will soon see him running for Senate from the Conway area if elected I imagine he would join the judicial Judiciary Committee in defending the freedoms of our cans. The second way to address the underlying problem with the failure of contemporary courts to respect the law goes to the for described politicization of legal education across this country. At my law school for example no conservative has ever taught constitutional law. Did one one of the two professors who taught constitutional law became the the team a few years back rather than bringing in a diverse perspective the school had the other professor taught it teach both day and night classes that other professor well known perhaps best known for advocating in favor of Bill Clinton during the impeachment process. That certain professors now retiring I have long since volunteer to teach constitutional law but the law school has refused that request. Do you should I actually be allowed to teach constitutional law I would not only be the only conservative to ever have taught constitutional law at this law school I'd be the only jim. That's diversity folks you want diversity that's diversity. Here's the deal that are willing to make the oath they want all of that so what's the plan for the law school what they're gonna hire somebody new. You can hire somebody new so when the Law School finds another professor with three Ivy League degrees who's a Fulbright scholar was published dozens of articles in high level national journals and the definitive treatise on the Arkansas freedom of information act that's published has approximately whether two hundred twenty five citations in Google scholar has been repeatedly cited by the Arkansas Supreme Court other courts in Arkansas the Attorney General who officially refers to me as a leading commentator on the freedom of information act is a media recognized expert of free speech it has all third significant portions of Arkansas law in conjunction with many of you know ballot. Mr stern book or we still employer mandated vaccines on the legality. NSS. What's yes let's get back to that topic yes or stop for questions what I'm what I'm trying to bring out here is that when we talk about employer mandated vaccines and we talk about the constitutionality and legality of employer mandated vaccines it's hard for me to tell you what is legal and what is not because we are left with the whims of. Political judges who make decisions based on their political preferences and this is a function of a break down in our system. So ultimately can. The legislature enact laws to restrict what Tyson's is doing yes. If the legislature does nothing can Tyson continue to do what it's going yes. And we can the legislature more Significantly control public entities yes. As it's done so so far and as it would have done would have been able to continue to do so a judge fox not undermined the legitimate enactment of this body. With that I I finished my testimony and of course some available for questions. Thank you Mr Steinberg of we will start with represent larger. Thank you Mr chairman I have a question that really all the panelists could answer but I'll start with the representative from the Attorney General's office you referenced the issue of state actors that the any restrictions on personal liberty or rights would exist if a state actor or infringing upon those rights but maybe not necessarily a private entity the question I have because I'm just looking here at the vaccination record card that that I received when I got my vaccination and in its not stamped as an employer it's stamps centers for disease control a state actor. I would assume that the employees for Tyson's or Walmart or whatever private entity is requiring employee vaccinations that they would be given a similar card that would be stamped by a state actor centers for disease control the other issue that came up in testimony previous was that federal law is granting. A community to the manufacturers of the vaccines again this state actor. So my question is how is this not an infringement upon upon a an individual's rights to be free from state action in violating their own. Personal liberties and then I have a I have a follow up to that because I think that there's a parallel that I could give but could you could you give us some clarity on this issue of where being a state actor. Stops and we're a private enterprise their rights begin even though they are enforcing the actions of the state. Insurers are Lowery thank you and and again let's Markopolos. I ask you to back I apologize again you let's remember our buckets we have separate buckets to talk about state actor bucket private entity bucket. What a private entity is doing is not stepping in the shoes of a state actor by requiring a maxi what they're doing is creating a private contract between the employer and employee employer saying employee as a condition of you remaining here gainfully employed your contracting with me that you will receive said baxeen an employer then has the option to take setbacks in a continuing or employment or decline not to accept those new terms of that employee and seek work elsewhere if that that makes sense. It does so let me give a maybe a anecdotal or parallel example that maybe would fit better when we're we can separate ourselves from the the passion of health care. Say the homeland security decides that for the protection of America. All employees all Americans should be microchipped and Tyson's in Walmart says okay we'll we'll we'll line up our employees and we will mandate as part of their employment contract that they be microchipped so that the federal government government is satisfied. Does that in that case violate. Of the provision of protecting an individual from state action C. H. yes and I and I get your point if the in the end your example of homeland security is is pushing the mandate down clearly estate action in our vaccine example if the CDC was saying the company companies around the country in order for someone to show up to work they must receive our vaccine yes that's a state. And if we're not to that point yet but if we were to get to that point and I think we would have some some concerns beyond just the conversation about at will employment in Arkansas okay so you're drawn the line at the word of of must. Right now the government is not saying you must take the vaccine even though they're using every bit of coercive action that they can to make that happen including using employment contracts to scare people into you're right they're either going to lose their job or they're going to to give into this state action. To my mind that would be where we start to draw that distinction and I we haven't let one of the other panelists dancer okay thank you and as as the professor cited earlier to there is and while the case is quite old. Jacobson as a Supreme Court case that was decided and roughly I believe nineteen oh five and I'm going off memory from that but. Is the United States Supreme Court has said even state mandated vaccinations can carry consequences with them for individuals who refuse siding Jacobson you know the constitution doesn't recognize an absolute and uncontrollable liberty. And Jacobson further held that. Communities could. And have the right to protect themselves against an epidemic of disease which threatens the safety of its members so for talking about state action private action and you're asking us what the the state of law is currently there is existing case law to support that private companies and to certain agrees to state may mandate things for health related purposes with that be upheld today. Pro problem probably maybe I. I cannot opine on some of the things that the professors said but we have seen a recent decisions from circuit courts that have overturned laws and statutes that you all have passed and I will leave it at that and how would that not be discriminatory of for instance in the example of Walmart your only requiring associates who work at the home office. To get vaccinated and also vendors but you're not requiring associates in this the locations the stores where frankly there is more exposure to the general public in their. Protecting their health how is that nondiscriminatory application. Not knowing Walmart's policy clearly I wouldn't want to apply and to see if they may be doing it in waves and I don't want to speak on their behalf so okay. professor what I add to that is in your hypothetical which is a very good one remember still it's the state of the government that was telling this be at Walmart you must. Have your employees get vaccinated it's the state that's the state actor Walmart doesn't become a state actor in that in that position so this state is still liable the state can be sued but Walmart cannot be sued now there's a way to make it that you could to Walmart you pass the statute and you prohibit well as you as you did for public entities are for private entities I'm not suggesting you do or don't do that that's your call to make not mine but that's the mechanism that you. Control the behavior of private actors the constitution up only controls both constitutions to be clear state and federal only control government actors and so when we talk about state action it's because we're also referring to constitutional protections those protections only apply to behavior of the government so when Walmart does something it can be bad any can be legal but it can't be unconstitutional. Thank you thank you Mr. Are there any legal issues. You know running a business I have a right to do. Pretty much what I want. But as long as it's within wall. If there's. Collusion between the government and business to achieve the government's purpose and yet the government not do it. Of and I ask I mean just this last week we had the example of the president and rent of addictions. Where you basically said we've looked the consul social all doesn't look like we would win in court which means we're not on good legal ground border do it anyway. Of so in this talking about. Ill administrations also talked about vaccines imports vaccines and possibly forcing boxing's okay so now we move down into my surprise because corporate people are usually really good with legalese but to sum up surprise listening to the meetings and hearing testimony today what I did not hear. Was here's how this would protect my company. Here's how this would protect the people at my company what I heard in those meetings and what I heard today is this will protect people the state. Which is what the state would want to do. But where's my interest. In that how much at any specially when I know that people from the government our meeting with business and saying we really like for you to do this. Because and the reason is because we can't so. What are the legal ramifications there. Well there are cases in which the government uses private parties and resulting in the government being liable we see this in the Fourth Amendment context so. You can hold the government liable but you still couldn't hold the private party liable unless there is a statute that the property private parties violating so yes you're right that there have been instances in which government has acted through private parties to avoid what I just described which is that restrictions of the constitution and what recognized when that secret behavior became recognize the government was held liable but the private parties are not held liable in that context so even. This. Some more even where we heard elected officials to help Twitter and Facebook Senator people for saying anything negative about the vaccine. You couldn't hold you couldn't well I can say that. There there is a broader question that's being litigated as to whether or not. Entities like Twitter and Facebook I have become essentially public services and so whether they have. Crawled over or crept into the context of being a public entity that's a complicated in an undecided legal questions but that is different so far then in the context of say a Tyson's doing something so as to placate the government which. Seems to be the case. Okay we're going to try to keep your questions one or two because at a certain time point and we're going to the next witnesses so that we can keep moving Senator Dismang. Sexually may center. One didn't think I saw Senator Dismang Senator Mark Johnson thank you Mr chairman thank you for the opportunity to ask questions as I'm not a member of the committee Professor Steinbach is there a right to privacy in the constitution. According to the US Supreme Court the answer's yes. Okay and I'm don't even get into the Rovi way side of that but there been some other instances where that has been seen it's even maybe in the Fourth Amendment and some other things today I think where we are on this whole thing and I have without getting into the weeds what you heard the first hour and a half you here I think or understand or I've been told by the CDC or whatever whatever your source of whatever your wrist ascribing to be factual people are operating from their opinion of how they interpret what they have heard or seen or been told and I'm I'm trying to. Keep this. Where we're really looking here I presume disagree with me if you would. Of the difference between public safety and what that is represented to be and we can not say that master good master bad maybe of as you said in ninety five mask worn tightly might be good and in many places I go that have people wearing masks are down under their nose I'm going to say that's probably not a good one but but nonetheless we're still talking about public safety versus individual freedom is that not correct that's exactly correct now and where I'm headed on this is I'd that's why we have legislatures to sort out public policy things into balance these these two things I know during. War war to that was a great fear of sabotage by foreign entities that are questions Senator Johnson yes sure there definitely is I'm trying to lead up to get a real answer Mr chairman of. And I'll just I'll move past that and go straight to the real question here of. In in the the let the bill of the bill that senator garner passed we just made a mandate we said we control what state entities do an and school districts and cities and earth's creatures of the State. and we said you can't have a mask mandate. The governor signed that it became law on the I believe the twenty eighth of July. And then the lawsuit was filed in and in judge fox said something and I will try to paraphrase it without keeping in try to keep it in context he basically said it was unconstitutional because it discriminated between public school students and private school students and I kept thinking will isn't that why we have private schools and public public schools we and only we go back to the sixties and talk about school prayer but I would think that. Catholic schools have slightly more privileges on school prayer than than public schools but could you speak on how we balance that vis a vis this issue at hand and that is whether or not a. A an actor of some stage either direct governmental or indirect governmental could. Mandate a vaccine a mask or anything else of an employee. Well if I understand the question correctly it It is. At least in part how does ten fox judge fox justify the claim that. The legislature discriminated against private schools by not covering them. Our and of course I don't have an answer for that because judges five judge fox's opinion is barely that it's much it's mostly in order not being in and what few words of explanation are provided they are in. I would require a the level of competence in law will be on mine well well below one of the two. and I sit somewhere in the middle and so of course your job Senator is to regulate state entities yes you can also regulate private entities but no greater responsibility lies in your obligation to regulate state entities indeed you were or I don't believe still are but we're on the Education Committee so you regulate educational entities Your. Decision to regulate those that are public is one hundred percent constitutional in the claim by judge fox that it wasn't is one hundred percent role. Okay thank you professor thank you Mr. We're going to represent a void and and. Seventeen minutes we're gonna go to the medical people regardless how many people in the queue and how may questions we've got answers. Thank you Mr so I'm over here so just want to clarify up front I'm I'm right here in front of me yeah. And I don't care which of the three U. answers this so let me just say my other job on the pharmacist and I've never heard of emergency use authorization I don't recall ever hearing of an emergency use authorization prior to the pandemic and then all of a sudden it's everywhere right so. Route House members were led to believe during our session one we're actually in session that it would be illegal to coerce someone to have say a vaccine that was licensed not truly license bill was available under emergency use authorization so I guess my question is. One is that really the case and to if if not what is you know is this something changed and three if it really is the case then how is job termination not coercion thank you. Represent what I'll try and take a stab at your question if I can I think what a lot of people. Word looking at and we're really hang their hat on section five sixty four of the federal code and the and the rags to go along with it. That cover emergency you thought use authorization and it it goes through a litany of requirements for the UA approval but the one that I think is what. Comes up in members minds the most. Is a section that talks about you know just quoted appropriate conditions designed to ensure that individuals to whom the product is administered are informed of the option to accept or or refuse administration of the product of the consequences if any of renew efforts using administration of the product any of the alternatives to the product that are available and their benefits and risks. And I think people in this I don't think this is a clearly settled area of law I think some people believe that. The right to refusal that's contemplated that section would make a voluntary backseat. Since then there has been a slip opinion that's come down from the US Attorney General not not our office the US attorney general. the FDA is in agreement with that at DOJ's an agreement with it again US attorney. That says that as long as the inform you. Of the consequences of not taking get ID if they inform you that if you don't take the vaccine you could lose your job. That an employer could still require an employee to accept the vaccination is that makes sense your storm coming from. Yes so so let me clarify then just so I. I think I I guess you so we're at a point where that still technically an unsettled legal questions a court would be the ultimate authority to be able to say it's constitutional legal whatever or not at this moment in time that that's correct I'm I'm just repeating what the federal government's current position is so so basically the executive branch of the US government is in alignment that this is okay a vote we would either need the legislature or the Congress or the judicial branch to weigh in and say something different yes Sir thank you. Representive right thirty minutes to the next witness thank you Mr chairman I had to step out during the opening statements so I apologize if I'm asking to repeat something that's already been stated I have two quick questions I'll just pose on both. the first is do employers have to extend the same exemptions on the sort of vaccine mandates that that exist under Arkansas law for childhood exemptions so religious exit are they required to extend a religious exemption and are they required to exit to extend a philosophical exemption second question is. If we could go back bill let's taking COVID out of the picture for a second we could go back to a year and a half ago in a pre COVID world what are what is allowable and what is not allowable from in terms of employers. Asking employees about their medical choices or their medical conditions and what is allowable or not allowable in terms of requiring employees to receive vaccinations or the things of that nature can you could you please address those two items. Yes thank you representive rate it's it's always good any questions from you somebody back in the room at so let's take the the exemption issue first I think guidance is clear if someone has a health condition that prohibits them from prevents them from receiving the vaccination they can enter into and an ADA accommodation interactive process with their employer and I can talk all the about that is second to go with your second question. A religious exemption absolutely that's clear as well I on the on the philosophical exemption side of that you know I know that exemption has existed over title six of the code for school age children I am personally unaware that's been used in eighty eight type situation so I'm not certain that that would be available Yeah that might be something that professor Steinberg answer for us if if he's if he's more knowledgeable on that than I am. but as far as. What your employer will cut information about your personal health your employer is able to get from you removing saying COVID aside let's just talk. I go into my employer I've had. A recent surgery and by my legs banged up and it's not going to get any better and say the next six months. I say employer I have. This issue with my leg I can't I can't stand for my shift for eight hours. Employer would. Engage with interactive process they say well you know Brad your essential job function is that let's say my cashier your central job function is to check out groceries. Not that you stand there to do so so the solution between employer employee that we both agree to as I get a chair to sit on I can still perform my essential job functions by doing that. A. This process doesn't take place in front of your your supervisor or foreman or out of the break you know this is supposed to be done behind closed doors with your human resources type department and they're supposed to keep this information private it's not supposed to be broadcast to the plant to the shop whatever the case may be. It in typically from point brings in. Documentation sufficient for the employer to know what the employee is requesting that should be the end of the inquiry but if you outside code situation if may be. Whether my leg is going to heal within six months or not is a question then perhaps my employer would ask me to go back to my doctor to get more information but again that's a behind the closed door inquire that goes on between you and and your human resources personnel. So you I would be uncomfortable if an employee showed up at the plant in there someone at the front door from the time clocks and you had your vaccine you have a vaccine why not you know I think that that we need to be handled differently and are starting to ramble so stop that's okay earlier in the earlier in questioning HIV was brought up. What is the law pertaining to that. I'm not sure that we can disabilities act up prevents employers from inquiring into into that there's also. A separate statute for example that protects the pregnancy and pregnancy related issue so there are a series and I don't know them all of specific statutes that address various medical issues if the statute doesn't address the medical issue then the employer is free to ask and require as well private employer to be clear. thank you. Senator Ballinger eight minutes the next witness thank you Mr I'll I'll be quick so first question and it really for FOR the AG but but a professor here you're welcome thank you keep it short I don't know if I'm likely. So when it comes to the religious exemptions right so the Tyson point made it clear that it would go through this the standard objection process if an individual had a deeply held religious belief in regards to abortion and because of all of the the all of the vaccines are now available either utilizes the the aborted fetal cells either in testing or in production. If they had a deeply held religious beliefs against abortion should that qualified as an exemption under current statutory law is what we're talking about not. Senator that's a that's a great question and without a Trier of fact I think telling us one way or the other and B. as it to really answer it. So would you say that under the current how their let's take a COVID off the Decision whether it would be legal. You look at me. the body of law disparity impact is unsettled in likely to change by the Supreme Court in the near future it's a bad set of low to begin with so under current law that might be a factor that's the best I can answer that question shortly okay it is often nothing to add to that does it is essentially move it to a strict scrutiny standard if it does or is it or is it more of a situation but I know it's is that you have to prove something after that. Yeah the burden shifted when when you deal with disparity in impacted if in your hypothetical you dealing with race race results in the highest level of scrutiny which would be strict strict scrutiny okay thank you. Senator Stubblefield four minutes to the next ones thank you Mr chairman. German Mr said something I can't get it out of my mind a few a few minutes ago when he was here testifying he equivale a DP maybe a quick glance of showing up for work working all day of speeding. To that of getting a vaccine. That was equivalency made. A. Do you agree with that. What examples that I heard him provide dealt with things that you do at work what what what I'm saying is that that that we have no idea about the long term effects of this new in our in a vexing we have no idea about the gene therapy that we're injecting into our bodies or other people's bodies of. How can any of us ever consider issuing a mandate for another human being bank to receive a medical treatment that we cannot say with one hundred percent certainty will not cause him serious harm in the future how can you do that. I'm not doing it. That's exactly what these companies are doing correct. They are they are Act essentially mandating vaccines if they have no idea what's going to happen for five ten years down the road. But their team supports it let me tell you this. This fall of the science field. I have been following assignments most of the science scientists don't know the difference in an X. and Y. chromosomes. So that I have a lot of problems with the scientist but along Senator Ballinger question you know of all the inalienable rights the most precious is life because without it the others are relevant. If your life is snuffed out abortion and in a couple state's snuffed out after you're born. Every other inalienable god given right. Is irrelevant. So if you if you refuse to participate in taking the vaccine and violating another human being and I believe a baby not much so as a human I believe it's a human being from the conception. If you refuse to participate in. Should always always carry an exemption for taking this vaccine. Well like I said I don't support mandating taking that the vaccine so I think that the explanations that you provided as well as many others are valid ones for deciding oneself whether he or she wants to take a backseat to be clear I took the vaccine and I took it early and often but that was my choice to make in an environment where some people speak about free choice that's my choice I don't need anything stuck inside of me the same way I don't need an involuntary prostate exam. And that's exactly what we're talking about today we are talking about giving people the freedom to take the vaccine I'm not to get the vaccine if you want to take the vaccine you take the vaccine if you want to wear a mask put your children mask then Dutch that's your decision but if I choose not to that is my decision based on the information that I have Garner in the past eighteen months. Unless somebody who has enough authority or not power or enough money tells you that he's smarter than you are and their team made a decision for you and therein lies the problem I'm done. Right president of Lundstrum you have less than a minute all right I will make good use of my time I'm a little bit concerned the entity that has all the power is the employer. And they have no recourse once that employee comes in and says I have a philosophical religious or medical belief. They have no other recourse. But then. And to address that I mean it again and I think you heard some of the employers say this if a if an exemption as presented they're going they're going to honor the exemptions that are presented to them by the employee. There are a lot of folks are real comfortable with that limit is like the fox guarding second representative Lundstrum I'll give your time back let me remind you in the audience. If you can't be quiet. Then you'll be asked to leave. It just seems is the entity that has the most interest involved in pursuing this is also the industry and is to end entity that is judge and jury. And and I would reiterate to their other recourses again if if the employers are not doing what they are supposed to be doing in granting the exemptions are legal recourse there is legal recourse against those entities not only through private litigation but also through the seas so I've I understand how divisive this is for for not only businesses but also the state. I think again to reiterate you all have asked can private employers do this under the current state of the law yes they can with the exceptions and again those exceptions are you have deeply held religious beliefs you have health reasons I would argue. I think I could argue with a straight face that philosophical differences should be a consideration of employers but that's that is my that is my personal opinion and again if employers are not following the law there are consequences for those employers and I think that they're very cognizant of those consequences. Thank you. Thank you all I think that's a very good placed into thank you for being here of then we are going to move on to doctor bill Holland Dr Chapman. Thank you thank you. Three. Yes. Hi. Hello. And that. In. The doctor seven this. Doctor bill and Mr Gilmour. This. Dr Shepherd gets in place a more ask you starting up my left you're right with the doctor bill up to a president give us your full name and who you're employed by police. Turner Moxon. Good afternoon I'm Dr Jennifer Delahaye on the medical director for immunizations at the Arkansas department health disposition of help for eight and a half years I'm also been serving as the state epidemiologist for the last year and a half and just recently I was named the chief medical officer for the Arkansas department shall. Matt Gilmore Department of Health the policy boards and commissions. Range Chapman working of numerous different venues board certified in family practice worked as in private practice for ten years here in central Arkansas also worked in occupational health urgent care and most recently in a local emergency room. If you'll raise your right hand. The song was were affirm the testimony about to give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes we've you may be seated and Doctor bill Hey if you would start and with us will be here to talk with the medical side of this on the employer mandated vaccinations share so I can speak today on the safety and effectiveness of the vaccines so we find ourselves in the fortunate position in the United States to have three vaccines that have been authorized by the food and drug administration as being a safe and efficacious these three vaccines were authorized after they had completed the safety and efficacy trial was part of the trials for the vaccines and they have continued the trials to complete the work to study the length of the effectiveness of the vaccine are the protection that the vaccines provide as well as the data needed to a document the Manufacturing process in the way the vaccines are stored so all of those data have been submitted to the FDA for review for for licensure our understanding is for Pfizer and internet those data have been Submitted to the FDA of the dancing vaccine not yet so it's possible that in the next few weeks we will have at least one fully licensed vaccine. These vaccines after they were authorized are being monitored for safety there are several systems in place to monitor their safety one of them is the vaccine adverse event reporting system which allows people to report adverse events meaning a consequence of the vaccine that affected them you can read anyone can report when people receive the vaccine prior to getting the vaccine that they're required to the vaccinate or is required to offer them a fact sheet that talks about the but using talks about the vaccine and then it also gives information about how to report an adverse event to the their system of and there's multiple ways of reporting you can call do it online fax email there's various ways and also a healthcare providers the vaccinators can report some of the reports are required of severe adverse events and that's after vaccination are required whether or not the death or the adverse event is thought to be caused by the vaccine. A so they these reports are monitored by the FDA and the CDC the serious adverse events and the deaths are all investigated to determine whether there is a relationship with the vaccine or not and then if there is a concern of some safety a signal they call it then they go to the vaccine safety datalink which is a collaboration between the CDC and several healthcare organizations that have complete data on their patients so they know who got the vaccine who didn't who had the adverse event who didn't and they can do a proper statistical analysis which you can't do on bears because all the statistics and the date are not present invaders. The FDA has a similar process with the post licensure rapid immunization safety monitoring system and they use insurance claims data to look for correlations of an adverse event especially if one may be rare and they may be able to find it that way and then there's the clinical immunization safety assessment and they're CDC collaborates with several medical research centers in around the US to a study or better understand adverse events and how they might be caused by vaccines and how to make vaccines safer. So at this point in time in the US there have been four hundred forty one thousand adverse events reported a ninety two percent of them were non serious seven percent of them were serious and one percent of them were death remembered their reported in bears but it's if it's reported impairs that doesn't necessarily mean the faxing costed it has to be investigated by the CDC. An. A they're based on the investigation of the CDC there have been four and five situations where they feel there is a correlation with the vaccine. One of them is a severe allergic reactions including anaphylaxis which is thought to occur somewhere between two to five of per million people who are vaccinated. There's another condition called thrombosis and from beside a Pina shorten FOR T. T. S. which has been a associated with the Johnson and Johnson vaccine there's been thirty thirteen million doses of the Johnson and Johnson vaccine and they have identified thirty nine cases of T. T. S. more often it's in women younger than age fifty and then more recently there have been some preliminary reports of a neurologic condition called Yom for racing from with the Janssen or Johnson Johnson vaccine as of the end of July there were a hundred and forty three reports that have occurred in men older than fifty for the most part. In addition there's myocarditis and pericarditis which is inflammation of the heart or the inflammation of the lining to the heart as of the end of July there were one thousand two hundred and forty nine reports and bears of this in CDC has confirmed seven hundred and sixteen of them as being. A true myocarditis or pericarditis and they have occurred in people younger than age thirty and their father examining to see if there's a true relationship with the vaccines face are more often reported after the Fizer or more during a vaccine F. among adolescent and young adult males and then there have been of course reports after COVID nineteen of death it is rare there have been six thousand four hundred and ninety reports of deaths invaders of course all of the deaths after vaccination are required to be reported and so there maybe there are debts that are not Found to be associated with the vaccine after the CDC has reviewed the clinical information so at this point in time there has not been an established causal link for deaths with the COVID nineteen vaccines and the closest is to the at Janssen vaccine and the T. T. S. which is the thrombotic and from beside a Pina syndrome there have been a few desperate as a result of that sin from which was likely caused by the vaccine. So people who are injured by vaccines under the emergency use authorization are eligible for the countermeasures injury compensation program that is for any pharmaceutical or other counter measure approved under the E. U. A. R. any E. U. A. and that pays medical bills lost wages for the person who's been affected and then licensed vaccines most of them are covered under the vaccine injury compensation program and so I would anticipate when the vaccines are licensed then they would move over to that program so I'll stop now and let people us answer on happy to answer questions. Thank you doctor of. Dr seven yes Sir you ready yes personal can you all hear me with this mask on the we can hear you better without it all right very well let me know if there's a problem first of all we have members saying it's a problem. it is a problem yes there are all right. What about now can hear you much better all right so first of all I want to say thank you for having me today it's an honor to be here and being able to participate in political process of making the of what I consider to be a very important questions about whether vaccines for COVID nineteen should be that mandated or not. First of all why why am I here well I have any friends with the senator and I contacted him a couple weeks ago concerned about what I was watching and seeing all local TV news stations I was angered and offended by the fact that the people that I'm taking care of for most of my thirty five years of practice we're being mis characterized gaslighted and in my opinion maligning this is the vaccine hesitant population. These people on local news conference on stations in my opinion I mean characterized if only we could educate them they would gladly received the vaccine the problem of education and and and quite frankly these people just need our help we're here to help home and if we can talk to him long enough will convince them that the vaccine it is a good idea the other reason that I'm here besides defending this population of people is also to help you will make a decision I'm the first one to admit this is a controversial issue and anybody who thinks that this is a slam dunk on vaccines on either side of the Lisle is living in fantasy land yeah you know when I counsel patients about whether to take a vaccine or not. It's almost impossible now for reasons that I'm going to get into because I don't have the data I've got some handouts I don't know quite how this works if if you've got to hand out to refer to but I'm going to try to refer to them to show you what a good informed consent involves. And how I tend to do that now and why that plays a role in whether I believe that receiving the vaccine against your will is even legal now I'm not a professor I don't want to say that it's illegal by the log I guess what I should say is whether it's ethical or moral it would be better a statement. So if we're going to discuss vaccine mandate. I think we need to talk about three legs are three issues number one the legal aspect and I'm not gonna go there there were people there far more qualified than me that have spoken on that issue. Second leg is is it reasonable to ask someone who doesn't want the vaccine not talking about the people who want it if the if you want to vaccine is available and quite frankly my personal opinion is when people ask me if you're in a high risk category for covid you know you are over sixty five you're under sixty five in your obese male entry to high blood pressure we all know the risk factors my recommendation is take your chances with COVID vaccine even though long term safe to do safety data is lacking so I'm not anti vaccine prior to covid I have Jason personally every vaccine is ever been offered to me. Because there were long term studies that were done you know we all know that the average time from a vaccine being developed to hitting the market is eight to ten years that's plenty of time to see what the long term effects of vaccines going to be I think everybody in this it in this room is willing to admit and if you're not I don't know how we can continue to have a conversation that this issue has been politicized okay this this issue both sides of the aisle of taking this and attempted to use it and from from a scientific standpoint I am as a physician ballot by Hippocratic oath which I've always taken very seriously and my job is not to let politics interfere with my practice of medicine I serve the people. They don't serve me. That's a lesson that I think Washington and the people in Atlanta need to hear an alarm because the people in the United States in my opinion have lost. Trust in medical institutions in leadership positions and that's because of the way that they have treated. The American people concerning. COVID nineteen vaccine if you humor me. Mike Rowe said it best there are always certain usually wrong incapable of shame and utterly void of humility is it any wonder millions fine them I'm persuasive. Prior to covid eighteen months ago the goal though CDC to me was the gold standard whatever the goal the city said CDC said that's what I told my patients and I assured them there was data to back it up. I am sorry to report that in my subjective opinion the CDC has been compromised the CDC has been compromised politically in my opinion when you look and if you will. Referred to. See you give me just a second to look at an exhibit here yeah so Page. Three. Risk this is put out by the CDC rest for COVID nineteen infection hospitalization and death by age group this is what the CDC put out to try to help me and try to help patients decide whether they want take the vaccine or not. So. It's probably obvious to you I don't think you need a medical degree to understand if I'm gonna get someone informed consent I need to give them the odds first of all what are the odds that you're going to get covid and if they do get covid what are the odds that they're gonna be hospitalized for the opportunity they're going to die that's pretty basic stuff look at this chart all they've done. Is concerned it is compared the odds. Of hospitalization and death as compared to the twenty two to eighteen to twenty nine year old group well if you don't know what the odds are to the eighteen to twenty nine your group being. Ten times more likely to die in the forty to forty nine agents doesn't mean anything and what that is is that is the selling of a narrative and not. Good medicine so the CDC is trying to impress people that if you're not forty forty forty forty nine group you need to be scared because you're ten times more likely to die and then the twenty to twenty nine group but let me let me say the same thing in a different way. The odds of dying of covid in the a and the twenty to twenty nine age range are lower than the odds of died in a motor vehicle accident the United States it's about twelve per a hundred thousand I believe now twenty two per. The twenty to twenty nine age range is I believe eight to twelve or a hundred thousand and motor vehicle accidents in the state of Arkansas is around twenty sixteen to twenty three I per hundred thousand so once you know that the odds of dying of covid are you know twelve per hundred thousand and your. Ten times more likely to forty to forty nine that number is still small. So those are the kind of things that's occurring now. In the institution that's supposed to be guiding us as frontline positions to to give informed consent if you will. The fully. Go to page. For. You go what am I talking about blood pressure this is a vaccine mandate well this is an example of helpful. Standard of care informed consent information that makes me able to educate you Mr Jones comes in she's got high blood pressure I tell listen you any lifestyle changes this is the way to do this lose some weight start exercising maybe cut down on your salt a little bit she comes back six months later blood pressure still in control Gen lost any weight okay it's time Mr Jones rest to start talking about whether you want to take blood pressure medicine or not. So what I tell or is Mister Jones you're probably not going to like these numbers but this is what I can offer you with a pill number one there's a one hundred and twenty five chance that I can help you with this bill and prevent death due to your blood pressure there's a one sixty seven chance that you can be helped by preventing a stroke and there's a one in a hundred chance that by taking this bill we're going to prevent you from having a heart attack there's also one in ten chance that you're going to be harmed and I reassure them and say harm doesn't mean hospitalized or died harm could be something as as been nine is dizzy or a headache and so we had this conversation enable doc. That that doesn't look like very good not what happened the other hundred twenty four people that didn't died it took this bill and I said well they took appeal and spent their money and swallow the pills for thirty years and they got no benefit thank you and and and then they look at meaning a letter make much as nice it will be that's why I tried to get you do the lifestyle changes so that is what a good informed consent is but you've got to have the data. Senator Clark and myself and tried to get the data from Arkansas students hospital for two weeks simple we're not asking for complicated stuff how many people have been admitted to the hospital in the last thirty days. With COVID and how many people have died. We got part of the answer finally yesterday. And they said they couldn't report the number of deaths did it violated hippa regulations so you know I'm trying to help people here and they're quoting him and by the way it's not even hip there's another regulatory agency that says that if you're going to try to report last intended as a group of people that you can't do it so that what we can surmise is that there's been less than ten does that have occurred in Arkansas children's hospital I and with the S. per given month or the whole time I don't know it depends upon how Arkansas children's interpreted that information so. Let me move on. It should I quit or do you have time for me to finish up I've got another five minutes or would you rather do questions. We're ready for questions hi. Representative. Okay Senator Stubblefield. Thank you Mr chairman. Chaffin in your pendant and your own personal opinion. I'm over here to vote we're all gosh okay what do you think this is happening to vaccinate everyone even those against Sir will you have a personal opinion. Well now I have the answer is I don't know I do know that there's an agenda well now I don't know my opinion is that there's a G. and it agenda going on here concerning covid there's all sorts of very weak arguments now and again let me be clear about this. The vaccine is shown efficacy okay so no one here I'm certainly not arguing that if you're scared of dying particularly if you're in a high risk category you need to get that vaccine okay so I I'm not an anti vaccine person but this is all about risk mitigation high risk people need to probably take the vaccine but if you're some kid twenty twenty nine years of age you got twelve thousand chance twelve hundred thousand chances of dying a covid you need to seriously consider the long term side effects which are currently unidentified okay now the media loves to tell you it's safe and they gaslight you by saying well we've never had problems beyond a couple months with any prior vaccine and my my answer back to that is I think that's generally true although there are a few exceptions but generally that is a true statement the problem is this is a brand new technology that is in no way shape fashion or form similar to the past technologies that were being used to create vaccines so back to reasonable let's say we weren't in a covert vaccine let's say we were in a repeat nineteen eighteen flu pandemic okay we've been making flu vaccines. For fifty years the technology is known we have long term data on would I be up you're saying that I think it's on reasonable. For someone to be forced to take a vaccine after we've been studying it for fifty years and it could help possibly possibly it's controversial spread transmission I would say I think that's reasonable. My problem with this is that the people informed consent requires the town crier to also give fair and balanced information okay the town crier of twenty twenty one. Is the TV station our local TV stations national TV stations and the internet okay so as soon as you put anything on the internet the talks about COVID on you tube you get a warning you're you're breaking post and then if you get something that it that probably what I say then you just get knocked out and you violated community standards that's not fair and balanced information concerning the it and here's so to answer your question I know I'm getting all these. I can't tell you why they're doing this I don't know but I can tell you that they're not presenting information a fair and balanced fashion if you look at the E. U. E. a you fax it everybody is supposed to be personally reviewed by the people administer the vaccine it specifically says in black and white we do not know the long term effects nor do we know the efficacy of this vaccine and you were supposed to read the EA you informed consent statement before you get the vaccine and I can tell you and my anecdotal observations that that's not occur Dr Chapman I know what rocketing ninety robin to click as it is. What is a foreign a vaccine okay all right so let me dispel a myth this is not altering your DNA. What at what they've done is they've got a snippet. Okay let me give you an example so you can understand I meant okay everybody knows that when you print a coin you've got a primary proof okay and then off that primary proof they make a stamping proof and then they make billions of coins off the stamping proof and it wears off and then it wears out eventually to go back to the primary proved they only stamp primary proof maybe a hundred times that's it. Same thing with DNA and RNA RNA is the actual the working proof not the primary the primary proof is the DNA RNA is the working proof that produces proteins glycoproteins and other necessary cellular molecules so what they're doing is they're introducing small snippets of RNA into your cells. Civic sales although read another one of my all of my articles they they they fully admit that they can't control what sells these are going into they want to go into certain sales that actually produce the spike protein. But they're going into a lot of other cells but because this is protected information because it's a A patented technique the visor and again are not willing to reveal the data on exactly what sales it's going into besides the ones that they wanted to go into so you're what you're saying is. These vaccines could potentially increase the number of variance variances that we're dealing with the vaccines themselves. No I don't I don't think that that that's possible what what this is RNA is going in and doing is it's producing. A copy of the spike protein okay it's a analogous copy of the spike protein this is actually on the COVID nineteen virus. Only one okay and that's another argument about and and I proposing again I am no vaccine specials with that may be why we're seeing such early breakthrough infections like in Israel that somebody quoted is because normally when you get code you get antibodies to numerous different antigens but these Vaught these vaccines are only producing antibodies to one so all the COVID nineteen has to do is mutate sufficiently that one spike protein that your body is producing and then developing an immune response against once the COVID nineteen virus mutates which has nothing to do with the RNA going in the cells the all the date that that's doing is producing one part despite protein of the virus itself but once that COVID nineteen mutates and despite protein is no longer the same on the new mutated to over nineteen virus then the the Fizer and again a vaccine to become useless your current one will not rest for doctor dealer. Our doctor deal Hey if you remember about a year ago I ask you and maybe was a council meeting or in a public health may I ask you about the or use of a. Therapeutics and the suppression of the early years of therapeutics including upper machten I property Clark one and us some of the monoclonal of antibodies and you said no there was no suppression so I went around and I did a little survey in my district talk to doctors and they said no we we have they didn't get a direct letter but they were all telling me they were under the impression they were not to prescribe any of these early therapeutics this one over here. Since that time I've talked to dozens in fact just last week I was at a convention with a wrist five hundred people one man was sitting at a table I sit down and talk to him and he brought up COVID on his own and he said Senator he said my whole family had covid last year or this last spring and he said I have three doctors in my family he said the doctor then went to the primary care physician here in Little Rock I want to tell them to take ibuprofen go home and sweat it out. This is been told to hundreds of thousands of people who call tracking covid. They went home he got deathly sick his daughter calling it said dad I'm calling you in a description of a I will make capsules. Call the man this is governor met before my life he was willing to commit testify this. From sure would. He said my wife and I took the I remember. Within twenty four hours we felt better within forty eight hours we couldn't even tell we had covid. Why we suppress the use of early therapeutics in this state and all over this country as a matter of fact you have companies like Facebook and Twitter that have censored the use of these they should be held accountable for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people that possibly could been site with early intervention. Everybody knows is. The doctors have told people to go home. Take some ibuprofen or Tylenol. It is white it out and see if you get over and then if you get bad enough we'll put you on a. In. This all happened since I ask you that question. And I've talked to a number of doctors who said they felt very uncomfortable because of the health department's guidance a prescribing ivermectin. Or Hydroxychloroquine. Can you answer that Sir to my knowledge the health department has not issued any guidance for or against I'm permit and. Our Hydroxychloroquine or Hydroxychloroquine. Because I was told one doctor said will. Of American is not been approved by the FDA will need to resist faxing. But it it is simply amazing to me how many people. Have taken these early intervention you have intervened on themselves really and I guess or what social media they heard before was censored or taken off Twitter Facebook and you know how that's happening. And it is very Kerry I'm very curious as to big pharma. Who makes billions and billions off of these other high priced drugs. When I dropped the court when ever making a relatively cheap been around for fifty sixty years. No money and make no money in it. Thank you to save a lot of people's lives. Talk to managers yesterday. He was finally prescribed ivermectin by his doctor any doing much better today. But it was early intervention that made a difference not telling patients to go home take a Tylenol just try to sweat it out. Thank you Mr chairman. Doctor bill Hey of. The. Is there. Can you tell us. What a. Dr Shafran said about and against. Mandates that would be wrong. I'm sorry ask the question again please. Dr Chapman and testified and answer some questions with the against or employee of an employer mandated vaccinations of because of the experimental H. or long term effects that we don't know although he seems to be pro back saying what did he in his testimony and answer questions was there anything there that he said that was wrong. You mean the doctor here yes so So the way the vaccines were developed I have a different understanding of them there were many years of work developing vaccines for other corona viruses so we could use that technology of course the mRNA vaccine technology has been under development around for a long time when I did my training in infectious diseases I remember reading about it in the nineteen nineties so the technology is not so new. In addition A lot of work in backs and vaccines for other corona virus diseases such as sars would circulate in the early two thousands and there's another illness called murders which is Middle East respiratory syndrome which is another corona virus disease that people get from camels and it's very deadly so there was a lot of work that had already been done on those vaccines so when the new illness came out COVID nineteen. The work to identify what the immune systems target is for COVID nineteen I had already been done what they needed was the genetic sequence for the spike protein on this particular virus as soon as that was published they were able to move to the animal studies and they could do those studies quickly considered already done so many analysts most studies with the other vaccines so they were quickly able to move to clinical trials with humans and because of the additional funding that the trumpet ministration had made available they could afford to overlap the phase one phase two and phase three clinical trials were is traditionally you would always do them sequentially. But you can overlap the now because the financial risk was removed because of the funding available and then in addition instead of waiting for the vaccines to be authorized by the FDA they could scale up production while the trials were going on no pharmaceutical company in their right mind would do that until after the vaccine had been authorized but they did it before even though it's a great financial risk because of the vaccine's didn't work they would have to discard all of that but been made millions of doses in advance so that when the vaccine was authorized they were immediately available for the American public to so there's lots of things that were done to shorten the development of a vaccine. But still adhere to the standards of the trials for safety and efficacy for the vaccines just like any other vaccine trial done in the past so that's how I would differ with the previous explanation. Dr seven us is there anything of service that you would respond to well I just have one mother commented I'd like to make first of all I don't disagree with what you said there was there has been the initial technology was developed in nineteen eighty nine and there's been lots of work done but there hasn't been this specific vaccine and what they found in that work by the way with ferrets with monkeys with the real problems with autoimmune disease now they contend that they solve those problems but the first humans in large trials to receive this is now what I'd also like to say if you just give me thirty seconds is. This isn't the first time that I've seen and experienced the FDA get things wrong and I'm not really I don't have a problem with the A. you under the circumstances what I do have a problem with this in the next thirty days are going to approve this thing is going to change the legal status of this entire equation. In nineteen ninety five I got a letter that said that I was under treating people with chronic pain and that I needed to educate myself about the use of opioids to treat chronic pain. I knew were the first six months in my residency training that opioids were good for three weeks and if you gave up for longer than three weeks you added one problem to the problem last data of opioid addiction so I looked at it chuckled it was from an insurance company and put it aside I got a letter three months later that said you're not complying. If you don't complying we're going to remove you from our preferred provider list then I got a letter six months later saying you are now practicing incompetent medicine concerning pain management we are removing you from the PPO list because I refused to prescribe narcotics to patients who failed other forms of pain management for chronic pain. You which are great for heart attacks broken legs at postoperative for the first three weeks I had no problem with that what I'm getting at is for me once I'm a fool for or for me once you the full for me twice I'm a fool I've been to this before I do think the FDA gets things right most of the time I'm not anti FTA but we need to use or not gains if something doesn't make sense or doesn't look right we need to question it they're not an all knowing god light entity and and so I would say again if you want the vaccine take it I don't have a problem in fact I endorse it in high risk individuals but forcing people to take something and put in their body it hasn't been it doesn't have a long term safety profile in my opinion is unethical. Mister chair from a. Yes. In an appointment the it in few minutes I'm not trying to interrupt but. If yes if you have to leave of was going to represent the board to get what questions we could and you had made me aware earlier the telling please which is why I'm trying to get to appear and answer. Of the but again can you takes more questions you need to leave now. The representative Boyd. Mister chair my question is for the other doctor if the let's hold to Senator Ballenger your questions for doctor bill Hey. Or a representative. Okay Senator Ballinger than your next. Just wait up do you agree that the the more recent data is showing that the the the value of the vaccine has a lot more to do with and really treatment or or and reducing the the the the impact of a virus on the person and a lot less to do with transmission is that most people are saying that baxay run vaccinated it looks like the transmission is there's almost very little. Benefit of transmission when it comes to well you're vaccinated not. So I want to make sure people understand that the vaccine still do prevent people from getting infected if they're not infected they cannot transmit about eighty percent of the people if they do get infected and become ill with COVID nineteen they can spread it just like someone who was not in their attacks in the. Does that clarify well it's the except so you're saying that it actually because my understanding of the even the way the vaccine is working it has a lot more to do with once you once you get what you want sales acted or not that you have it you know it is it is in your body in your name nasals passes all that stuff it just makes it where you're your body is better it to fight it off yes the at large majority of the people who were in the hospital and died from covid nineteen even during the last couple months with the delta variant or people who are not fully fashion so you can be protected yeah I'm not arguing that the issue is the transmission so you're saying you're you're arguing still you know probably what is a couple months old that it actually has a large benefit to reducing transmission so right now of all the active cases about eighty five percent of them are people who are not fully vaccinated and about fifteen percent are fully vaccinated those people can transmit if they're not infected they cannot transfer that are are people who show up at the hospital if they're fully vaccinated or they are they giving COVID test right away. Probably. It's my understanding that if you're flown back if you're for tax they that's the question but it right if you're not they give you cover test. No everyone who has symptoms should get a COVID pass rather their vaccinated fully or not sure but if you go in for hernia surgery and you're vaccinated you don't get a COVID test if fact I can't comment on this depends on the hospital practice it okay what one of the questions I don't want to I know that we're all in a hurry. Have you followed what's what's happened in places like Israel where they're fully vaccinated huge numbers of people now that are hospitalized or are fully vaccinated you know Gibraltar's got spike the flu vaccine so South Korea in about the whole incident the thing that happened I think to Massachusetts with the with the party are you one of the theories behind it that I've seen the make sense is maybe the the value of it wanes over time and that's why they're talking about a booster shot in Israel is that me would you accept that that's possible that the that the value of the vaccine is diminishes over time and we may not we may not have met that yet I mean we we we're about two months behind is. So it is possible that the protection that the vaccine provides wanes over time it's also possible that people who have certain underlying health conditions may not respond as robustly to the vaccine is others and then it's possible that eventually will get a A variant that the vaccines may not cover and all three of those reasons of would possibly A. Get this to the point where we would need a booster of one type or another. Doctor bill Hey can you take one more question H.. Yes or representative what strong. Bless your heart I will take make this very fast the health department has they issued any guidance for therapeutics. Not that I'm aware of other than the monoclonal antibodies that make sure that physicians who wish to provide them at know how to get them. I'm. I'll stop there for now because I realized it I will follow back up with you thank you thank you doctor bill Hey thank you for being here thank you for your time we're gonna go to a representative Boyd of questions for Dr Chapman. Thank you Mr chair and Dr Chapman I I think on some level you have answer this but I want to be very specific about my question here how you respond to that what concerns do you have about the long term effects on the doctor patient relationship that these mandates whether they be mask for immunizations might be having thank you sure well I think my main concern right now is I feel impaired. Concerning trying to educate my patients so you know my job. I'm like what you're seeing with the media now I mean it it it in my subjective opinion the media thinks that they know what's best for them. And they also know what's best for me. And I'm offended by that when I see a patient I put my own opinions about whether I want treatment for example when I give informed consent. For the vaccine I don't tell them what I think what I would do I give them the fax but I can't I'm hamstrung right now because the source that I'm supposed to be able to go to for this which is the CDC is presenting biased what I consider to be biased information by the chart that I showed you so I don't you know I've got plenty of patients that who I've advised to take the vaccine they had end stage of lung disease or sixty five sixty eight at but the problem is you can't press people to for because once you alienate somebody like maybe what the CDC in Washington is done right now people cease to listen and then then I will not only lost the battle but I've lost the war so I do what I can by trying to educate people factually concerning the matter leaving my opinions out of it as much as possible I feel like I'm obligated by the Hippocratic oath to do that not give my opinions not share my political views but to try to educate them but I can't do it. Because the CDC has been politicized and they're giving me information which is designed to. Biased me concerning my recommendations for my patients did I answer your question or not. I think so so in summary you are concerned about the long term impact on the doctor patient relationship with all of the interference in what this yeah because it translates so that they don't trust the physicians and not I'm talking about the vaccine has been you've got another side of the equation that thank the doctor felt he is god incarnate. But the people that are my people which are mostly you know I taking care more people that are vaccine has been that I have the Pro baxeen. And that group of people I have lost trust in the physician leadership in Atlanta. And in Washington and I think that that also comes back to me as a physician I think they've lost trust in physicians across the board and I think that that's extremely detrimental to American society the relationship between a patient and the physician is sacred and the only other relationship I can compare it to is that between your pastor and and yourself and that that we've entered into this toxic tribalism where people are being nasty to each other gaslighted each other calling each other names on both sides of the aisle I think it's not only destroyed our democracy but I think it's destroying institutions like the doctor patient relationship I think it needs to stop. Thank you of you through I have sent a board yes I I appreciate the response thank you yep that the Bentley. Thank you chairman Dr chafing over here yes ma'am thank you for coming to give us your time today I appreciate it have you by chance read the paper Dr Michael McCullough from Texas and twenty other guys about the basis in Russian of early patient treatment of COVID using therapeutics like ever mention other things have you read any of that information from I have so I've kept up on all this stuff I'm a science nerd I read read read read as part of my job but I also was signed here long before it became a doctor so personal opinion and again the first thing I want to say is I want to separate fact. For my opinion so that you can make an informed decision you're an adult I you don't need me to tell you what to think so the fact of the matter or Hydroxychloroquine if we're to believe the data and I've already told you that I'm now hesitating to believe the data because multiple articles that have come out against COVID masks. Have been rejected by major publications because it didn't fit their narrative now that being said the articles that are out of hydroxy chloroquine do not show benefit okay the articles that are out on ivermectin or mixed there are some studies that show to be effective others that show minimal benefit and a few that show no benefit but overall it shows mild benefit if you can average everything together so what I personally take hydroxy chloroquine if I got sick with COVID now now what I take ivermectin yeah I got a prescription waiting for me at the pharmacy right now. Your follow up chairman. Yes do you think that we have failed our Kansans by not doing early treatment focusing everything on vaccines and mask and not focus on treating patients early. Before they get very sick. I'm sorry I didn't know the question I'm sorry trying to ease into the court or do you think we have failed our Kansans overall by not doing any early treatment by yes I've heard Senate business in the region or transfer Copeland's of the Senate people home with Tylenol in the committee to which literary ill and yeah yeah some of them don't make it so anything right failed our cans but not even focusing on early treatment so I'm hesitant to this state a strong opinion about that look here's the scoop. We as physicians at medicine operates much like the army guys there's rank and file and prior to COVID I was very comfortable with my position I was a sergeant my patients were privates and there was a rank and file about how to do things how does this pertain to your question is that we've been told by the lieutenants and the majors that monoclonal antibody which I think what is what people referring to its early interventional treatment monoclonal antibody treatment you had certain criteria according the FDA that had to be met before that therapy can be instituted so it's really hard for me to condemn the physicians there on the front lines they're making that decision because once you violate standard of care guidelines you might you bring yourself wide open for criticism so the physicians were actually that that denied monoclonal antibody arena just recently this week things have changed I think concerning the recommendations about when to prescribe for prior for the prior nine months you have to meet certain criteria and if you didn't meet that criteria in a physician opted to give it to you he was violating guidelines so can you understand my apprehension about condemning the doctors and you know it's saying that we failed in that early treatment now concerning ivermectin that data was in evolution even as early as January February and March of this year you would not have heard the same answer for me concerning that and Hydroxychloroquine was proven ineffective by general consensus last fall so I have a hard time saying that the physicians have failed Arkansas I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt I think at this point that early intervention definitely needs to be instituted and I think we can save a whole lot of people. In the I. see you and my colleagues that I've spoken to personally concur with that. Thank you one final question is okay chairman last one do you believe that natural immunity provides better protection than these backgrounds it just go on one play and this is a huge box of worms and I'll try to be brief Senator Clark so. Yes. Based on my thirty five years of practice based on my. Basic immunology training that I received in medical school and that I've kept up with reading on I told you I'm no women all immunology expert but based on I feel like I'm competent after at least give you an answer is that I think that. Can you repeat the question again I lost my train of thought. One. The House natural immunity because my personal feeling is is that the person that munity a choir immunity from infection is stronger and munity conferred by The shot for a number of reasons when you get the infection you get antibody production against multiple different antigens different proteins that constitute in when you get the current vaccines that are available here in the United States you're only getting it to everyone so if I may this is directly related but I want to spend fifteen seconds and tell you a compromise for all of you that are trying to decide what you gonna do with this please I would ask you to read about and advocate for EA you authorization for some COVID vaccines that use old methodology they're out there you know the excuse was we can't make them quick enough but miraculously India produces a vaccine using old technology ninety days after ours got started they got their started and they did phase three trials I would take it Kovacs and vaccine yesterday okay it uses old technology are and they know that Novavax is also coming out and that's a hybrid between new technology in old technology but it's a whole lot better if you're scared about the new technology in the R. and a going in your sales and producing the proteins which dead bodies reacting against those are some good solutions and some compromises for maybe you ought to consider but it's been shut down by Washington. Biden denied EA you authorization oxygen bought the rights for the cove action to produce it here in the United States he shut it down and said no you can't do that you we're not offering Americans a choice of the using old technology and that would be in my opinion a reasonable compromise would you get all the vaccine has date has that people know but would you get half of them I would surmise the answer is yes. Thank you Dr Jeff and for being hearing your testimony we are now going to go to Mike Simmons Charlie Cox's the England of Bransfield representing employees who were looking at termination of for not taking the waxing. Welcome FOR Mike Simmons Charlie **** Zeke England the principal. If of starting here on my left you're right if you will identify yourself and your employer please up first adult turn one box only to turn other to marks on so that you can be heard. My name is the prince field and I'm here today representing myself I'm an employee standpoint my employer is not yeah this is use a self employed or the. Or you don't want to work what you said today you don't want to name your employer puts yes that is acceptable yes the. Because we understand what. When the prince field I am in foreign and also we don't want to make my employer. Mike Simmons an unemployed by Tyson foods. Charlie **** employee in Washington regional medical system member representing myself today the your bill will be seated will start with Mr Simmons and the. You will excuse the fact that as we go longer members have to leave this is still being live streamed with lots of people watching and it's recorded and many of our members come back and watch later on I do so I can't be at a meeting or can't be at all the meeting so I'm glad to have you here today and Mr Miller will start with you. Thank you guys for having me so like I said Mike Simmons I've been working for Tyson for fourteen years this past July my wife with me and I have three kids Barrett is for Austin's three and Gabrielle is eighteen months my wife was recently diagnosed with cancer and at the same time we found out we're pregnant with number four so the blessings prong and spread in there as well. So with that said August third I believe the announcmenet came out from Tyson that people would either need to go against our conscience and become vaccinated or sensual you had up to two weeks really to get fully vaccinated so that you will be fully vaccinated by October first something nine seventeen would be the last date you had to be vaccinated to accommodate we are also through my wife's breast cancer she's gonna have surgery this Thursday and our call just is in the same boat as a lot of people and he does not feel that he's gonna be around past October to do any subsequent surgeries that we are definitely going to need so it's just mom here to show that this is an impact on people's lives it's it's people with that essentially really being held hostage through through coercion to either give up your paycheck insurance severance or get the vaccine what's your choice and I'm in a good position finance the lord has blessed me. And I'm in a position to where I can speak up for people that are willing to stand here and understandably and name your company because they have us in a very difficult position there's people with valid concerns medical philosophical religious yet many of them and even through our own process they said they would allow religious and medical exemptions but in their own words the process would be rigorous and many feel that they're gonna be singled out if even if they have a viable religious reason they feel like they're gonna be singled out and your career is going on the many people there's executives at both companies I have friends obviously Northwest Arkansas that work at both Walmart Tyson in surrounding areas. and many of some have already left some have unfortunately already got vaccinated I say unfortunate I'm not anti vaccination but I'm anti you doing something against your conscience and it it pains me to see and hear people that are going to guess or conscious just for a paycheck when I stand from the lord and yes me might why did you get the vaccine I'm not gonna say because of paycheck was a because I was convinced that I needed it and I was taken advantage of the wisdom of modern medicine that you gave me but I will not say I did it because my paycheck and that's what I pray that let other people be able to do as well and just like mine colleges twenty eight years of surgery one of the best most gifted in the area and he's willing to sacrifice his position because he has a conscience and conviction and he will not go against it and I appreciate that from him and I appreciate that from you guys it appears well. Thank you Mr ****. Thank you Mr chairman members of the committee of the. My name is Charlotte **** I'm a doctor of physical therapy at Washington regional medical system in Fayette bell I'm a proud our cans and I was born and raised here and now my husband and I raised our three children here I want to these halls in grade school learning about citizen participation in government and I'm so grateful for this opportunity to speak before you today. Both my husband and I have been honored to provide care as servants for northwest Arkansas community for the past thirteen years I love my job I love my hospital I feel I'm living up to my calling as a public health specialist in the tree chronic pain. It is so incredibly fulfilling to be able to witness the healing and restored hope of patients in my office every week however I feel now that my ability to continue serving in that capacity is now in danger I'm facing the real possibility that I may be terminated as a consequence of my faith I feel better about that after listening to testimony today. Because of the first amendment protecting religious freedom never before has such a violation of liberty ever been considered or occurred in America. Several tenets of my faith prohibit me from receiving the experimental COVID nineteen gene therapy injection. And it would violate my conscience before god to participate in it I am grateful that and like most other companies my employer has been forthcoming recognizing providing an application for religious exemption no I have not yet received that confirmation. During my years in higher education and clinical practice I've been responsible for both conducting interviewing research although I have extensively read all the studies today I'm hoping nineteen vaccines I'm not here to debate numbers or data instead I'm appealing to you as a healthcare provider to continue standing on the side of human rights. On the side of your constituents they represent on the side of thousands of people who you have reached out to you this week to defend their sincerely held religious beliefs as you also want your own religious beliefs respected. To continue standing on the side of thousands of community members like my husband and I. Who love and literally put our lives on the line for our patients who may now be without jobs because of the mandate that violates the constitution and our conscience. I am asking you to continue standing in defense of the Nuremberg code and title seven of the Civil Rights Act. I'm asking you to continue standing on the side of justice for the people over corporations with deep pockets. I'm asking you to protect businesses from increasing their workers compensation claims due to employee side effects from amended injection. I'm asking you to stand in defense of bodily autonomy and informed consent as we simply do not have a complete list of ingredients is not on the backseat for these injections because manufacturers are not required to really see a complete list while the experimental product is under emergency use authorization. I fully support my colleagues right to choose what happens to their bodies and I'm asking you to continue supporting all humans right to choose as well you see I'm not afraid for my own career for risking my career because god is my defender. But I will be a voice for those who have no voice to defend their human right to make their own medical choices instead of handing over that right to their employer. I am obviously not an immunologist but I do know that there is zero long term safety data of any sort for these vaccines as has already been mentioned state. I do know there is zero short term dates set today for people data for people like myself with a history of autoimmune diagnoses. I would submit to you that finding one's own research on a liability free product while simultaneously projecting multiple billions in profits on that product is a conflict of interest. I would submit to you that the center for Medicare and Medicaid Services coercing health care providers into vaccination on penalty of a twenty five percent reduction in their reimbursement beginning this October first twenty twenty one. Is enough pressure by itself. I would submit to you that is a false dichotomy to insinuate that an employee unable to receive the vaccine is malicious or ignorant or and willing to protect the community by other well documented means. You see in addition to my religious beliefs on a personal level I very nearly died four years ago from an auto immune blood clotting disorder associated with from beside a Pina which has been mentioned today. That was a result of a vaccine I received in college. I also witnessed my father a lifelong healthcare provider in Arkansas as well nearly die of the hombre syndrome as a result of a flu vaccine. It would be a breach of medical privacy for employees to have to disclose personal medical history such as this to an employer just in order to earn a living for their family in Arkansas. And it is a violation of medical freedom and human rights to require such people to subject their bodies to another significant risk of injury or death. As the FDA themselves specified being a condition of UA where there is risk there must be choice. I'm asking the legislature I'm not sure how this works I'm asking the legislature to reconvene to address this issue before the deadline. After which people will lose their jobs and it's too late. Mister chair members of the committee I know that your desires for the protection and equal rights of our cans thank you thank you for listening and speaking today this is not about politics are being pro that senior into vaccine but about human rights and medical choice which I know is something we all agree on thank you. Thank you. Mr Branchville yes. Sir Clark thank you for inviting my wife and I here today my name is the purpose built in this is my wife Glenda. I'm of integration engineer working in healthcare and the reason that I did not share my company's name they're not an Arkansas based company I've had the opportunity to work from home however being in my position I have a. Implemented in every major hospital in the state of Arkansas medication applications for hospital information systems to manage pharmacy pharmaceuticals of it and this mandate that's going to hit the hospitals here that is is rolling out across the metro would prohibit individuals like myself from being able to work within those environments because of the contracting association between business partner agreements. And we see this as also also carry a a clearance working for the government for the defense health agency and we're having mandates we know that mandates have been established from our president. To also extend to contractors do business with the government and so these would directly impact the current position that I'm in and this is no place where I would ever want to bring shame to the or my the organization that I work for it's a fantastic company wonderful company I believe many business owners I believe many leaders have been given a lot of information that has been allow fear. And businesses also ran by legal teams as well and we mitigate risks we look at which way is going to be the most advantageous direction for us to go when it comes to implementing policies in our businesses. This is something that I do believe with the current legislation that's in place that we will see more more businesses move in this direction because of lawyers and we do need your help to protect us in this we do need your help to be able to establish laws that would give us rights in these moments. My wife and I are also pastors and elders of two builders fellowship in Benton Arkansas we find it we found a nonprofit organization go got ministries which is dedicated to helping men and women I am overcome life controlling circumstances such as drug addiction and depression our ministry has zero paid staff members every single member of our ministry from the pastors to the elders to the men and women that serve day in our ministry providing counseling services providing Bible studies discipleship all do it based off of the provisions of god is made through our work through our jobs we built six homes to House men and women in so without time whether overcoming these life control and circumstances we have a also built a pregnancy care home for women that allow them to be able to live out the pregnancy learn to be moms or if they're in danger situations being able to escape from those. And all this is has been brought about in our community to make our community better but it is also fat associated to the work that we do. And it without the livelihood that we have without the incomes that we have. The downstream effect of those that we've been given charge over by the lord. Will be impacted as well. Not. I love the bonus and I love the confidence that we have in our in our father and and we know that there is a way that he will make for everyone of us in this moment and then maybe you make in that way it may be the testimonies that we give today gives you the courage to do something that others may be unwilling to do. The lord has blessed us with skills working in technology as medical professions we're both nurses to improve health care globally. Now we we we came here today to give testimony of the impact to our lives of how before speculation mandate would invade our home family and livelihood be able to continue to serve our community nation world with the skills they got is given this. Not spent twenty years in healthcare as a nurse. And I love my job it's a great job of the company that I work for I think that we save last day of the community is definitely better because we're there we have a son that's an active duty military serving in the U. S. Air Force we love our country we love the freedoms of the declaration of independence define the constitution establishes and the bill of rights mandate we know that it's not unprecedented for vaccinations to be mandated such as the polio vaccine but that took much longer to develop and have proper testing of we understand the right to the people of America to establish laws to create order maintain stability to protect human life I'm in favor those things but the mandate of the code of the covered neck team of explanation as unprecedented produce numerous reasons I would development in what has happened faster than any of the vaccine has ever been built before Is have limited testing it's not received FDA approval and what I could testimony today yes possible adverse reactions that I have served in the challenge reporting tracking pertaining to those adverse reactions so I'm just going to start working at home first I want to start with my parents my father's a Methodist minister any has been for fifty years after his first dose of the of two and a covered nineteen vaccination he he ended up with a very severe case of shingles. Months he was very miserable afterward with the shingles after my mother well one ad is perfectly healthy she's not have any health problems at all. On any blood thinners after her first injection to Kobe nineteen vaccination she ended up her arm swelled real bad and she broke out in a rash she were pulled in my collection sure. She reported this to your doctor and all he did was scheduled for second covered vaccination so after second cover cover vaccination my mother went unresponsive at the dinner table falling to the floor required by eighty year old father to administer CPR to her what they wanted for the for an ambulance to arrive of medical team arrived and revived her she was taken to a local hospital in the lab work indicated that her hemoglobin and hematocrit were critically low she received two units of packed red blood cells she was diagnosed with a GI bleed she's never had anything like this before and not on blood thinners actually no reason for healthy person have a G. I believe she was discharged the following day to be followed closely by a medical team she and they have followed her closely she's had upper and lower GI she's had weekly lab drawn but we have watched over the last two months her hemoglobin and hematocrit continue to drop she still bleeding somewhere and I don't know where. She ended up having to have two U. two more units of packed red blood cells last week for this critically low we call H. and H.. let's see here she and she and she's going to follow up with a hematologist and a GI doctor this month. But I talked to her doctor to her doctor about the possibility of this being the adverse reaction to the vaccine and he would not even hear me out he dismissed it immediately and I thought that was very interesting that he wouldn't even consider I was just asking him to consider the possibility is anyone reporting this who do we report it to if this could be a possible adverse reactions to the vaccine. A in the also I received a text this morning from a friend of mine who's also a nurse ACT and colleague and she had started talking about she that all the adverse reactions that are under reported from peace faster regular heart rate heart rates on young healthy adults I've also seen other GI bleeds who received the vaccine and I'm not saying that it is definitely an adverse reaction from the vaccine but who do we reported to why are we not reporting it just seems like there is something off with the reporting in the study of adverse reactions of these vaccines. We know there are some reporting but how many people in hospitals or even considering that the symptoms could be possible adverse reactions to the vaccine in a rush our best efforts to reduce the impact COVID nineteen through vaccine campaign I believe is evidence that we could put more people at risk and we actually save if accurate information was made a bill made available pertaining to diagnosis the host of vaccination all of us would have enough information to make an educated decision about our own personal health but we are over ram with conflicting information found from new sources that seem to change every other day our new sound our news sources some more like propaganda to me than anything else. So should we let the people be able to make informed decisions what what is best for their own family regarding risk versus benefits I think most people would agree that if we had accurate information that we can make good decisions about our own House. I believe that I work at one of the top health care facilities in the nation I work with some of the most talented surgeons nurses respiratory therapist and we provide excellent care to our patients I worked through the pandemic of twenty twenty I was in contact with patients that had covid I saw first hand the devastating impact of this disease had and I was proud of the response of the metro hospitals here in Little Rock that they had a sold many nurses many friends many colleagues at work tirelessly to take the very best care do the very best care from best they could and he's a very difficult situations. We exposed our families to this risk. Under his eye and dress nightly in the garage. Before I even wanted to the House I take my clothes off in the garage and I had to tell my five year old so that he couldn't help me until I had a shower. Because I have germs. So we feel very passionate or family about caring for the mental the physical and the spiritual health of all people in a lot of the testimony I give you I am intellectually incapable of receiving vaccination based on the observed potential risk and limited tracking of those respect because of a rush to force a vaccination mandate. I've worked at for local hospitals in a nursing home all with the end of this area. During my career and none of them make sure try to mandate a flu vaccination not one of them. In my mind That we have to serve and put their life at risk for a period of time to not respect we're not respecting the intellect and the religious freedom of the prophecy regarding vaccination status. So I had to come today first of all my father taught me to always stand up for what is right even if you stand alone but also have the responsibility to our church due to be a voice for them of righteousness I have a responsibility to humanity to record my observations and I had a responsibility to all of you are elected officials to share my experiences and knowledge and help you with one of the most critical decisions you will be faced with in your lifetime we will all stand before god with the choices that we make my husband I have been in the workforce since we were fifteen and sixteen years old we dedicated our lives to make our community safer for our children in your children it's people like us that the force mandate will put out of work. And this is true not taught us anything in twenty twenty all medical personnel were being regarded as frontline heroes in twenty twenty one some of us are going to go out and shame. Twenty year veterans my own supervisor has she has resigned and she is irreplaceable there is no one that can can I borrow a patient like her and be able to just pinpoint little things that. A new nurse would miss out on. So have we so far so quickly forgotten the moral integrating ethical implications it's that's the same behavior sat on a Vietnam veterans they serve their country main kaun well it came home to be rejected by their own people. I would hope that we learn from our mistakes in the past. Thank you for your time. Thank you. I would love to or are Committee and everyone that walks and now in the future there were dozens more who wanted to testify there were dozens who were afraid to testify and many of all of us have been contacted text mail email of I know in my case by hundreds of most of those in my area or medical folks I have not talked to one that does not have a that did not have solid medical professional reasons well as doctors haven't talked about the people who this more educated more that may be true of the general public but again the people that I'm talking to on the subject that's not true at all that's what the words are again I'm not anti vaccine I'm not anti this waxing of. The but people who are who are both observed COVID in and observe the vaccine all of them to make a choice on their own what they want to do Any questions from the committee. By Senator Ballenger. Thank you very much Mr. First let me just say thank you so much I mean I know that the there's got to be a lot of pressure but I also know that this actual lot of other people who were willing to willing to testify whose whose under that same pressure so you're not alone a lot of people out there for sure and and and honestly I don't know if anybody could articulated it better than you guys it's a great job what I guess I would ask is it you know it as you go forward and you're dealing with this please feel free to reach out and communicate how things are going because I think it will help us develop Policy to address an obviously up most of us in this room who blasted out we all have have plans of trying to work to do something for you but but without the information that you guys have we will be as effective so if you would would you guys please kind of keep us informed as to what's going on as you work through the chair I'm happy to give you that anybody in this room wants to call me my cell phone number happy to give it is a seven zero three five zero five one seven five and happy to talk with you guys and try to help I reckon but you know I guess there's no real question there but but if you would will you guys please continue keeping us engaged. If I say something to Thank you for that Tyson and I'm name Tyson and I don't I've worked at Tyson fourteen years and have not returned one recruiters call they're great company to work for and I still think that now that could be changing in the near future and I think leadership has some serious rethinking to do and that's what my hope is out of this that they realized that that there's quite a few people who feel differently and I think in this polarized politicized world in our echo chambers for the past year and a half a lot of us think that everybody else thinks the same as we do and I think that couldn't be further from the truth and I hope from this that that you guys are able to work together and influencing companies to maybe reconsider how they go about it if they truly care about their employees there's other things you can do we've been working from home for a year and a half so why all the sudden do I have three to four weeks to get a vaccine or I'm done it's just it's very strange and it seems rushed and and why rush anything when we have magic masks and we have work from home opportunities so. Thank you guys for your time and Your prayers. Thank you all for coming in a will repeat what Senator Ballinger said and speak for all of us I don't think anyone could have done a better job than which always done and presenting your story we're gonna go to the last three on our list of just another ten Justin Harris and Isaiah Harris. Mr Hurst Mr her somewhat shall stand. And the. Each of you starting with those area of could you give us your name and your employer please. When I was as a Harris and I'm currently a student at the University of Arkansas. Justin Harris. Jessica another ten. Or you may be seated and we're gonna start with the miss another time. I'm gonna do my best to read a statement for you I actually just had two seizures in the waiting room outside so my name is Jessica another ten and I'm a forty three year old wife to rob the mother three children I'm here today to tell you how my health has been completely wrecked by vaccines given by well meaning doctors as a child I had the normal vaccines that schedule at all my well child check out my mom was diligent to do what we've all been told is that right Jean the best thing for our children I like we had my first adverse reaction between fifth and sixth grade but I when I started nursing school in ninety six we were required to get a series a hepatitis B. vaccines I made it through the second one before I began having severe neurological GI issues so bad that I had to drop out of nursing school in two thousand and eight I have my beautiful daughter Andy had a terrible infection was hospitalized in on antibiotics because she was a baby and I was very ill my friend who was Evie's PA heavily persuaded me in getting the H. one and one blue vaccine I had significant nor logical issues including spatial disorientation severe fatigue pots yet undiagnosed and I couldn't drive or even stand for long periods of time I had to spend much of my days and bad parenting from the couch and I was unable to work or finish my desired education level. I went to so many specials to tell me that nothing was wrong with me I was finally convinced that it was all in my head as all the experts had told me so I got pregnant with my sweet election two thousand and twelve and immediately had such severe fatigue and was so sick that my OB ordered a full cardiac work up and then threw up his hands and said he didn't know what was wrong but I wasn't well right after I gave birth to lie down while I was still in the hospital they gave me to detect axing for the whopping cough because they claim that there was a supposed walking cough outbreak. I was completely better in in in in pain after his birth taking care of both my kids from bed and my mom having to work full time and take care of me I spent the next years going from doctor to doctor trying to get healthy on my own between two thousand and twelve and two thousand fourteen I had rebuilt my house so much that I was running working out six days a week doing heavy cardio to try to manage some of my pain symptoms and other symptoms I continued working out this way through two thousand fifteen. By December two thousand fifteen I have been to enough doctors to know that there was an immune problem I discovered this I went to a well known immunologist in Northwest Arkansas who I highly respect on December thirtieth he said that he was going to give me what is called a vaccine challenge the protocol for this is to get the patient the name of action not referred to Texas tech you check someone's titers as you've all been talking about to see where they are you given the vaccine they come back in thirty days you check their Tigers again to see if they made an antibody response. This is used to check people's immune systems who are suspected of having a non functioning immune system. The name of that shot Tate what was left of my immune system I spent a year in and out of the hospital going to doctors at the end of two thousand sixteen we had exhausted all the local doctors. So we went to Washington university Barnes Jewish and St Louis to Johns Hopkins University Johns Hopkins hospital. And we attempted to go to mail I finally started getting diagnoses. Common variable immune deficiency CV ID was the first we were told at that point that I had gone untreated and undiagnosed for so long that I had cascaded into other diseases we spent the next year fully researching and it was only because of our own research that we got anywhere because the doctors had no answers by the grace of god minding my dear friends research led me to Dr Susan Levine who I have. Her bio here for those two who would like to pursue. Ductility is a clinician for the center for innervating narrow immune disease at Cornell University in New York and has an extensive bio in a published researcher in addition to CV ID she diagnosed me with my object and stuff a lot of my lightest in me and your own you disease a quote from professor mark level as head of aids in any CFS clinic organ science university and I read many researchers who research this disease have the same quote any patients bill affected lead the same every day as aids patients bill two months before they die. The only difference is that the symptoms go on for never ending decades so many people don't understand the severity of this disease because no one's ever heard the name. I was also diagnosed with postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome pots and not enough Adhanom disorder when Dr Levine was listening to my Lync team complicated system sent in history she looked at me and said did you get the H. one N. one flu vaccine I said yes in two thousand eight or nine she replied that is why you're here and the new attacks in two thousand fifteen was the nail in your coffin. Since meeting with Dr Levine I have been further diagnosed with Ehlers Danlos syndrome EDS it is a connective tissue disorder that affects all the college in your body if you know anything about medicine or your body everything is made of collagen. Any one of these systemic diseases is a life altering I have four. I believe with all my heart that god numbers are days because of the vaccine injuries to my body they are likely to be the actual nail in my coffin as far as my day to day goes I lost the ability to eat almost completely. For the last several years I have been sustain nutritionally by protein shakes and the occasional piece of toast and a pair I'm just glad that I was able to avert a feeding tube which is what most of the people who with my diseases and up with. I went from being in a very active to requiring a wheelchair to participate in life outside of my house on the rare days I'm able to get out. I spend most of my time in bed their days weeks months when I can't talk I suffer from paralysis in canton got out of bed I go to highlands oncology twice a week for three to four hours at a time for an fusions I have to do sub Q. ID G. infusions as well at home once a week these take three to four hours as well I frequent seizures to just outside here I haven't been able to drive in two years I am unable to care for myself my children I've lost all my independence there are times when I can talk I can't talk or even bays myself I had COVID in November and according to all the facts. The previous speakers and of some of the previous speakers international experts I should have been dead and I want to add that when I got sick even though I have all of these diseases not a single doctor offered any support any care or any help. Even though I was told that this was indeed vaccine injuries no one told me that I could report it No one to my knowledge did on my behalf by the time I found out through my own research that it could have been reported to bears it was three days past the statute of limitations for my case. My case might have been one of the few that when and baxeen court. Sir it so no pharmaceutical company would have been held liable thanks to H. R. five five four six president Reagan's national childhood vaccine injury act of nineteen eighty six throughout my medical journey even though I am educated intelligent informed consent was not given to me it takes both informed and can set and I am here to fight for people's rights to have information and to give their consent there is real risks to vaccines even the old ones the ones that have been given for decades my name may seem like an extreme case but it isn't the only case by far and by my research way before twenty twenty and all of this. I had no idea that my whole life would end up in this place it one because I've been doing this for a long time I could have filled up this room with doctors lawyers and people that could have answered every one your questions today. And by far the estimates that there are millions of people like me. If they're missing because they're sick or their dad. Yes COVID is terrible I've had it I know yes people have died from it but no one should be forced to live the medical life I live when someone has for life altering diseases and no pharmaceutical company is liable are these companies that are trying to force mandates going to be liable. Are you the lawmakers going to be liable what if it is one of your own where there is risk there must be choice when I heard someone else say that today thank you for hearing my story I believe that god has brought me here like Esther for such a time as this and that maybe my story will be the one that prevents another like it from happening. And I want I'd. The I. risk possibly being in bed for the next several months unable to talk unable to care for my children to be here today all I can say if one other person from the life that I am living. For the last several months I've been having continuous seizures I ended up in the hospital in may because they would not stop. We need everyone turns your back there back on you and you have no support because they won't listen to the stories. Well before twenty twenty. Then your daughter your twelve year old daughter sits there and hold your head because she's the only one home when her mother Sturch CZ. I have eighty nine year old son who has a photographic memory. I have been sick his entire life so I just want you to know. That while everyone saying that these things are say. They maybe say for some people but not for everyone and when we're talking about mandates and forcing. The next vaccine if I'm forced will likely kill me. Or permanently paralyzed me. Thank you for listening. Thank you just go for coming. Thank you for testimony. Justin Moser. Thank you for having us today and I thank you for listening to our story. And. I to think of what this event today is late retired. I thank you the northwest Arkansas contingency for still being here my representative I haven't been back in six years I don't miss it. one thing I don't miss the most delay just added to that I've heard today. From this bench of how we're not smart. And we can't make our own decisions. When it comes to the vaccine. And just this event cure can cause I say a lot of pain a lot of heart pain. Hello long pain and this weekend was a bad weekend for us. He was in a lot of pain all weekend and I talked to one of my Senator friends and he said oh I heard Asa was doing good that's not true. We may have to deal with this the rest of our life all because we thought taking the vaccine was the best option for him. And I took the vaccine the maternity and did just fine. And I said to provide the vaccine and it was not fine for him. My wife chose not to take it because she has some deeply held religious views against it. I thought I did too but I thought I was doing the right thing is a teacher. And my two boys are going to take it because it was their choice. And he's going to tell you his story just in a minute of what it did to him but it's interesting and telling my own story about my own son I get censored on Facebook. So I can say anything on Facebook just yesterday I told CDC numbers and I get flag that I am telling misleading information when it came from the CDC website. And let me tell you something else that I'm a little infuriated his story has been on the calendar national news. His story has been on the today show. His story has been from now my favorite Democrat Robert Kennedy junior. The defender great guy did a great podcast with him because he cared only one. Place in Arkansas Jamie Weiss had the **** to do a story on him. No one else in Arkansas wanted to talk about my son and what happened to him because it doesn't fit the narrative. And then I also have to say this that the governor keeps saying that the vaccine is safe. So I call the governor's office and talk to his chief of staff got a nice little conversation. Said you know somebody now you know my son Is there Harris. He's had a heart attack and he said myocarditis from the second dose of the virus vaccine stop saying it say then I hear this lady right here she was the only person that diffused Isay a story on forty twenty nine. Say ups here that it's safe and then that bars is it necessary correct let me tell you about bars. The only reason why we. Reported bars because I had a personal conversation with doctor Bledsoe who said Justin you need to report this to farmers so I reported it to farmers you know what I heard from bars nothing. They don't even know about my son or that he even exist and we did the right thing and let me tell you the number from bars got it yesterday five hundred and forty five thousand three hundred and thirty eight total adverse events from the vaccines twelve thousand three hundred and sixty six DS seventy thousand a hundred and five reports of serious injuries and mercy hospital made my son he'll tell you this wait eight hours to be seen while he was having a heart attack. The goal to tell him it was a. Bacteria the he came in contact with when a perfectly healthy young man within forty eight hours of having the second dose of the vaccine came in contact with the bacteria from another person had myocarditis a heart attack. And they did not report it to vars so you tell me how hospital can mandate. They're nurses and their employees when they can't even take care of their own employees and can't even take care of my son we had to fly all the way to Cleveland Ohio to the number one heart hospital to get to be seen. And they correlated. The vaccine we have his heart attack a myocarditis. That is a sham and that is a shame. And to this day they still say it say. In Arkansas. And I'm tired of it I heard a lot of it today and you know who's paying for it. Who paid for the plane ticket to Cleveland Ohio there and back. His mom and dad did there is no benefit. The so I don't want to hear this Tyson's is gonna pay for this tax is going to that sure insurance pays for that no there is no benefit. We found out we tried to get on the but there is no benefit for recourse. It's all on us. And so I told as they are getting pumped up this is Justin here's to point out this is how I was then this is how I am now it's been six years in the making but he's going to share with you what actually happened as the second dose of the vaccine some. Your. My name is heirs and imitate happen after I took the covered vaccine I'd like to start this out by saying I was very healthy before all this I lifted five days a week I'm eighteen years old I was very healthy and the reason I decide to get the vaccine was because president Biden said those that are unvaccinated will pay the price and I was told that is very safe very effective and I was doing the right thing. So I. The after my first as the Fizer Maxine I got on April eighth all ahead of the storm no side effects was not sick at all nothing was wrong. that's for the April thirtieth I took my second does start out with a sore arm and then around twelve hours later I started feeling very sick Very achy and I want to walk my graduation at northwest Arkansas community college I got my associates degree as well as my I school diploma. After this happened I was fine when on celebrate with my family. I still feeling sick I was just driving my car this was forty eight hours after the incident driving my car about to go take another test for a college class those in and then my heart just. It felt like it was like popping out of my chest it was aching every time of beating I was just driving it was it hurts so bad. After this I would take my test test less than an hour the painted of sort of calming down later than night and I figured okay maybe it was just some kind of other pain unrelated nothing's wrong and after this I went and I looked at planet fitness it's a bench press and. Then as I was doing that right after I realized okay maybe this is a muscle problem or skeletal problems so I it starts hurting very bad after listed so I went to sleep and then I I was short of breath I could hardly breathe her to lay down. And. Yeah it was not good so the next morning assigned to go to the doctor in Rogers and he tells me just to be safe go to the emergency room he thought it was skeletal muscle. And I went to the emergency room I told them everything about my my chest hurting and they kept me in the waiting for forty five minutes would not take me back and after the forty five minutes they put me in the hallway for four and half hours I believe it was until they found a room for me in the emergency room and in that room there was piles of blood that had not been cleaned out it was not the best care. After that I stayed in hospital for four days I talked to my doctor and one of the nurses actually brought up something because Agnes of myocarditis at this point one of the nurses told me that in Israel they had found a correlation between my card itis in the vaccine and at that point I ask my doctor if it was the vaccine the causes and he said no you he denied everything says a springtime virus said he could not in anything on the vaccine because he said it was safe. So four days later I'm still in so much pain I am going home Still hurting it hurts to lay down switch positions every time her be it just hurts the sort to around a month later I go to Cleveland Ohio and my heart so a lot of pain the doctor Allen Klein told me that the Margaritis is linked to the vaccine he's the one that actually let me now and. I'm still in pain to this day this weekend it was hurting so bad. In. That's what happened with to the extent. Thank you ozil. Any questions from the committee. Senator Ballinger. I just also for you all say thank you so much for all the that that you've done to be here and be able to testify waiting all this time of the your commitment to this and and as as you go forward as things develop would you please just keep keep us informed and let us know because it'll help us and setting policy. Representative once from I just wanna echo what Senator Ballinger said I thank everybody for staying here today it's it shows a real commitment six twenty five and we're all still here and I just wanna thank everybody. Thank you all for coming we very much appreciate your testimony and sharing your experiences with us it certainly. Affects my thinking about a vaccine mandate the. We are gonna leave the temporarily we're not done with the and we're gonna go to E. this is just for the Senate Judiciary Committee. Of adoption and discussion I hope the discussions will be really short I. S. B. two O. two one dash one oh five. Senator Ballinger. Your now. Thank you Mr if it's okay with Committee on those two right here and I will make it as quick as possible most well a lot of people are you are aware of the legislation that we have a the we've proper pose drafted essentially what it would do is it would create a right of right of privacy recognized by the state of Arkansas in your vaccination status and would prohibit any retribution against person or retaliation against a person if they refuse to provide that this would directly. This situation the eyes be obviously is is the including exhibit any and your what I'm willing to answer any questions but I'm also just make it real clear I'm also willing to make any amendments to this committee would would see fit it also you know I I'd want to say that right now we're still in the extended session we have a bill filed I think it's Senate bill seven nineteen a believer seven fifteen something like that and and if if we were to be able to be called into session by leadership is something we can deal with now but it it either way I think it be good for this committee to be able to take a look at this legislation and and I'm definitely open to ideas. One thing I just I feel like we've kind of missed sort of the explanation of how we or what we're dealing with here we keep talking about the mandates on employers and I understand that but that's not really what this is about this not about and a mandate on employers to prohibit the mandate on employees what this is about is about protecting the rights of the individual and and if we had a employer that decided to set a policy that said that Christians could not pray at work period. What we would all say that is a violation of some fundamental right right we we wouldn't allow that because the fact that ultimately as legislators it's our responsibility to protect the rights of our citizens of fact or religion but functions state government is to protect the rights of life liberty is present happiness and if you can't have the autonomy of of your own body make them decisions about your vaccination you don't have the right to pursue happiness right so so alternately this is about protecting what I think is a is a natural right it in a little right the most of us would agree of privacy in that so anyway I I would just appreciate the the the committee you know adopting and I move that we adopt the ISP. Got a motion and a second any discussion. Hearing none all for the motion signify by saying our. All opposed. Motion carried just to clarify the committee knows what we've done but this is not passing a bill this is the interim study proposal we're this bill be brought back to this committee for study during the interim the now back to the. All the as you are all aware of the law provides of of which are things when the best laws we've got that we take public input at a committee meeting. I tried to make everyone aware that this one. Of if you want to be testify you should try to be on the witness list because this one would probably run low but I am not and will tell you all this before because I didn't want you to get depressed or. Of we work but anyway there's twenty six people signed up to testify because I've had a couple people push me about certain ones twenty six people have signed up to testify you'll have been here for five hours now already of and so we always do our best to hear from people of we are certainly way past I must post the other dinner about right now of so I'm gonna go back to the two committees. On S. what's your pleasure do you of. do you want to try to take anymore testimony or are you done. I don't know that having another meeting on this subject is going to happen Senator Stubblefield apartment three that is not but. Senator Ballinger did it Mr I'll just say I know that there are people who have driven a long way I know that it's like it's almost impossible like if it was if it was two minutes apiece we're still gonna be here for another hour but I I guess you know the maybe we trust the public that if there's some folks on that list that their issues been covered that they that they not speak and other folks who feel like they really need to my guess is looking at the audience some of them are gone but I hate to even schedule another meeting when we know that the you know it means a lot of these folks from a long way come back to little rock. Any other discussion. We hear any I mean this or this the star Wharton the stronger still here I'm always for taking public input I am going to suggest I will start naming people on this list see if you're here I want to ask that you if it's if we've already covered it. I'm going to ask that you decline of the and if you think it's something that really needs to be said please keep it under two minutes because of Senator Ballinger has said that would be another hour of. So of hearing the world's Committee is doctor bill Smith still here. Okay. Doctor bill Smith wants to testify. What is common is Tom Smith there. Okay. Is Nicol burrows here. Okay. All right of if you'll stand. If you're give us your name and employer please. Doctor bill Smith I'm a self employed contractor available and I'm here to it that's fine by me yeah so you're my constituents so I'm glad we got you feel if you'll raise your right hand the songs were performed test when you're about to give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I swear all right. So I know you guys have a difficult decision to make and you heard lots of great information today but I'm here to present something a little bit different but I think has not been addressed which is very important topic which could greatly help in your decision going forward so obviously people don't want to be told what to do and. We're forgetting our history a little bit something similar happened in World War two with the Germans and they decided that they were going to force the Jews to go off to these camps. And medical experiments were performed on these Jews against their will and that led to the Nurnberg trials which ultimately it led to a law called the Nuremberg code and I'm just going to briefly go over the Nuremberg code to help remind us that potentially by doing these mandatory vaccinations we're in violation of the Nuremberg code international law. So the first point voluntary constant has to be given by the human subject so what is brought voluntary cons consent I'm going to go over that. The voluntary means is performed undertaking or brought about by free choice willingly or without being asked. That's voluntary what's consent to give assent or permission to do something or to agree. That doesn't sound like what these corporations are doing is voluntary consent. And I would argue that that is no. The other problem that we have is with informed consent. Are we really inform these patients these patients who are not given a choice about what to do are we informing them of the potential risks and adverse events that are socially with these vaccinations and again I would say no that is not happening doctors are not saying when these patients are asking them what could happen if I get the shots not saying well you could potentially die or become permanently disabled that's a problem because that in and of itself violates another portion of the Nuremberg code which states that if an experiment leads to physical injury permanent injury or death it must be stopped. Now we've heard today a few statistics from the various database the various databases very clear this vaccine is not safe it's causing permanent physical injury and death. Is in violation of the number come. So at what point do we pull the plug No representative Alan I was here on Thursday and he asked me questions about the mass he said how many children dying is too many. Is it three is it too is it one I'm going to throw the question back and I wish you were here today. He was earlier how many people dying from this vaccination is too many people. Is it five ten fifteen thousand a hundred thousand where do we draw the line at this. It's time that we Institute protections for these people the unvaccinated particular who do not want the shot. Now I'm going to read a document to you that is quite frightening I'm gonna try and be quick about it I don't know if any of you ever heard of it's a document released by the CDC. Right off for their website the title of the document is interim operational considerations for implementing the shielding approach to prevent COVID nineteen inspections in the humanitarian settings. You know what this document suggests. It's just the anyone who is at high risk to the community of getting COVID be brought to green zones. Two camps. And these green zones will house fifty people in each screens on the greens as well not have indoor bathrooms they will have latrines located outside the living facility. No one is allowed into or out of the greens on. It may talk about separating parents from their children and the children will be placed in the care of care takers. Your concentration camps. Now the way to get out of these greens on this if you receive a vaccination. Or if COVID goes away this is specific for covid this is directly off of the city's website this is shocking. We need protections so that the unvaccinated people are not hold off to the green zone because I will tell you right now. From the tyranny of the CDC which says in the name of public health high risk individuals need to be brought to the greens out so I beg you put this in your legislation that the unvaccinated vigils cannot be segregated from the rest the population because they're at high risk of getting covered. And I'd you'll back. Thank you Dr Smith any questions from the committee. Representative Lundstrum while he was speaking I look that up just to say in case anybody thinks he's Meshuggah it's right there on the CDC website operational considerations for community isolation centres you can look it up and check it for yourself thank you Sir. Thank you representative once will thank you doctor Smith. Thank you get another time there probably would be questions but the student Tom Smith. Mister Smith. Tell us are you give us your name and your employer for the record my name is Sam Smith currently and by implication pastor buying prairie Baptist church the motor Arkansas thank you but I'm sorry right right in. Do solemnly swear or affirm that the truth the test while you're about to give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help me god yes Sir which makes certain proceeding. Well I know times limited and it's hard for a Baptist preacher and do a short term. I didn't come here to preach a sermon I came here as the taxpayer in Arkansas you're by birth and choice. Born in Little Rock. Abandoned by my parents when I was very Adopted by sharecropper former lone oak Arkansas the for the the home was very dysfunctional. But it was through that whole experience of the abandonment and abuse that the one who gives us freedom I spoke to me and tell me how to be free when I was seven years old and I've never looked back in my life is been indelibly changed. Of my adopted father landed at Normandy on D. day then talk much about it but in growing up and watching him and seeing how he was affected I realized that was part of the price. The Freedom. So the whole time growing up knowing that your word was your bond and the importance of integrity. Yes I grew up in became an adult and got married and I have three children of god again to impress upon me that it was so important to always look to him and above all to look out for others and so I dedicate my life to that I have I been a pastor for between thirty five and forty years I've been preaching fifty three years god led me to be a missionary in the Philippines for over ten years on the island of Leyte you may be wondering why am I wearing us to Gallo but wrong part of it is much more comfortable than that suit. But it also reminds me of what happened in the Philippines. When Ferdinand Marcos. When he became president of the Philippines they were number one in the nation the Asian tiger. But absolute power corrupts absolutely. And when he was a expel from the country. The Philippines has never been the same again they were plundered billions and billions of dollars so even as a missionary I saw what happens when. We're in a the Palestinians and and all these things happen. Prior to going over there in nineteen eighty I swear my hand to protect and defend the constitution of the United States as a first lieutenant traveling with the Kentucky Air National Guard. We moved back to my home state of Arkansas in December of nineteen eighty Can and then I was all set to retire in two thousand three at the age of sixty. I was all set to retire but I found that it didn't have to retire and then I got asked to be the command chaplain for the Arkansas National Guard I got a waiver to age sixty five I served with Senator Hendren at the stated quarters and retired full bird colonel but what I learned in the military. The same thing I learned as a missionary. Isn't freedom isn't free. And if we don't protect. Those who cannot protect themselves. We all are guilty I guess what I want to say that having been said is this. I have a long list here means that many of you probably would recognize the usual people who are willing to risk it Martin Luther John Calvin. John Knox. You can go on to the American history and hopefully it's not going to be re written. You would hear names like John Paul Jones Patrick Henry you would hear names like Rosa Parks you would hear names like MLK Martin Luther king junior you know about the Selma March these are people that were willing to risk it. Even though they knew that it would cost. And I think it's wrong for us. To say these employees whose employers are putting them in this group. It's wrong for us to say and for you as a legislature not to protect them. Decided them why we know. that's your choice that you have chosen to resign. Well I love freedom. I love America I love Arkansas and I want to finish up with this. Why am I so strong about freedom because you know that's why god created this. He gave Adam and eve a choice the chose wrong. We all suffer because of it. But when he said to the pharaoh to Moses he had one message he said let my people go he said let of the free. Seven hundred years before Jesus came Isaiah had a prophecy about the coming missile in Isaiah sixty three you find that it was liberation. The opened the prison doors of those who are pressed and the list goes on and on and on as I conclude though I never finished my church to tell you that always put a colon on. I grammatical code not a I'm not here about medical and all that. It was Jesus who said and then later Abraham Lincoln quoted. I land a house divided against itself cannot stand. What was Jesus talking about he was talking about freedom. And what price we know what it cost him when he came back you can never kill truth. You can never kill freedom so I am with this. On my caller some people look at that may say what in the world are you doing we're in a wheelbarrow. On your collar are you in the landscape and I say no I'm in the life changing and here's a bill. Back in the eighteen hundreds in nineteen fifty nine there was a a turned out to be a world famous tightrope artist he went by the great blind in he was strange. He crossed over the Niagara Falls eleven hundred feet long as a hundred sixty feet in the area and one time it's reported there were like a hundred thousand people watching and applauding they were cannot over what's this got to go out there do handstands and go over blindfolded carry people on his back and they everybody love the great blonde and so one day after he was doing all this. He got down he's looking at the crowd and he had position to Wilbur. He said how many of you believe that I can push somebody across that thanks only Wilbur everybody said yeah. You should get in. What's the price of freedom. So I appeal to you as my legislature. Do what's right. Regardless of what it costs to. Are you will get in. I'll. Thank you pastor any questions. Seeing none thank you Concord's. Because of remain standing and tell us for the record your name and your employer yes I am Nicole Burris and I am a homemaker. Thank you of your raise your right hand. You so much for a firm that the toast testimony about to give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do if an. Good evening. My name is Nicole breast and I'm a nurse with a background in pediatric and obstetric care I'm also the mother of eight children in Northwest Arkansas who had been patience to wait here all day. As a nurse I am given thousands upon thousands of immunizations before I learned that many vaccines are cultured in aborted fetal tissue. I was shocked that I never heard this before and I immediately look this information up on the drug insert that accompany certain vaccines. It was true and I was horrified. This provided a problem for my family is devoted Christians I am pro life and don't support the deliberate ending of any human life at any stage. Unfortunately at this time all COVID vaccines in America are manufactured using aborted fetal tissue. Every single one. A fetal cell line is cells taken from an aborted baby and multiplied many times to make sales of the same kind. These babies thousand and giving the name using a combination of letters and numbers to keep that confidential and impersonal the Fizer vaccine reported they use baby cells called H. C. K. to ninety three from a healthy aborted baby in the nineteen seventies the Johnson and Johnson vaccine reported they use P. E. R. C. six fetal cells derived from healthy eighteen week old aborted child's eyes the majority of vaccine uses H. C. K. to ninety three fetal cells in research and development of their vaccines well. The AstraZeneca vaccine uses ET que tu ninety three fetal cell line from the kidneys of that aborted instant. Now you may personally object to abortion or you may not that really is a relevant because what matters here today is that your constituents the people of Arkansas have strong opinions on abortion. As a Christian I am so firmly against this method of biomedical research that I cannot under any circumstances accept a vaccine manufactured in this way. And I'm not alone I've been speaking with countless doctors nurses physical therapists lab workers respiratory therapists and other healthcare professionals who believe that it is biblically unacceptable for them to participate in any vaccine that is manufactured in aborted fetal tissue. And it doesn't matter if you find some religious authority somewhere who will give their stamp of approval on this product because we as Christians look to the Bible not a man and we just can't support it. However we have companies as we've heard today such as Walmart mercy health Washington regional Medical Center Tyson foods and others who are mandating this vaccine for all employees. That includes the pregnancy E. L.. The ninety pound intern with history of vaccine reactions the elderly man with a heart condition. Everyone that means that these employees will either bow to the pressures that require them to violate their values or they will be fired for their religious convictions. As of yet I want you to know that these companies have failed to approve religious exemptions to Christians who objects to the vaccine and has submitted the proper paperwork. Sirs and madams. This is religious discrimination. The first amendment states that Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. Davies powerful employers are attempting to act in a way that even the United States Congress cannot. I am begging you to please step in and protect Christians Catholics and other religious individuals who had not been publicly participating vaccines manufactured in this way. You may not care about abortion you may boldly call out my body my choice and if so I ask you to please hold to your convictions. My body. My choice. You may be pro life and wonder how on earth you have not heard this information before. You are not alone I literally injected thousands of patients most of them babies and my three oldest children before I knew this. On behalf of the medical community I want to apologize to you for not sharing this information before I pulled out my syringe and ask you to pull up your sleeve. You deserve to make informed choices. And to have me support your choices whether I like them or not. I I knowingly withheld that from you. But today I humbly ask you to uphold freedom for our Kansans support them in their choices. Keep their private medical data private. Pre tax this state from the mass unemployment that will result when Christians across the state are fired for their religious convictions. This state from a massive shortage of health care workers when there was already a nursing shortage all across America. Protect us from religious persecution. We nurses were your heroes last year when we work tirelessly to care for you even working a double shift on little sleep with a whole lot of coffee around patients who we fear could infect us with the virus responsible for a worldwide pandemic. But you can be our hero today and support us in our right to choose to keep our jobs. And keep our obedience to our god. Does anyone have any questions. The questions from the committee. Thank you for your time see non thank you Mr Burris of the next name Not sure of. The last name may be. Hooton. P. U. T. T. A. M. O. N.. You come forward. You will. Ugh. Give us your name and employer for the record my name is and Pat and I own a small lawn and landscape business items personal story on although this point I'm not sure if the committee cares of the law. If you'll raise your right hand. These almost were affirm the testimony about to give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth the. Research being here of please keep it as brief as you can yes occupancy for quick first of all just wanna say thanks so much all centers representative for allowing us to be able to I'm presenting the case first of all I just want to speak on the side of freedom and liberty we've been given a great country of great heritage and people giving allies for food and we have and I believe that we should have the freedom and the opportunities choose everyone of vaccinations bills we don't want vaccination all the people that were just mentioned on the date you gave the lives just a little bit of rain that we have in this country we have the greatest country in this world. And we're willing and the people giving way freedoms just for the sake of can you yeah I'm coming and seeing but I just want to is asking state we please fight for freedom five liberty for the individual to choose what they want to do with a five one body we just saying the pledge of allegiance at liberty and justice for all I don't want to lose that liberty and justice for all by forcing the vaccination on anyone and I just want you will fix that's all I'm saying thank you any questions. Thank you for being here of Paul call will. You can choose an asset to walk the. This call will if you could of for the record give us your name and your employer. My name is Paul Okolona pastor a local church in office Arkansas okay you'd be seated and please keep it as brief as you can. I at the conversations men. Touch so I just want to. Maybe you have a brief teaching on it is We're talking about here is not a medical problem. Or a Legal problem it's liberty problem analysts understand that the Bible which we prayed to the god of heaven we started this and we swore allegiance to the flag for liberty justice for all what does that actually mean and by was very clear on these things and so what I want to just do a real quick thing is our founding fathers of this nation in a very unique way to which is lasses is long longer than any other nation history were still under the same constitution notation histories ever done that. It was built on biblical principles my point is not to make everyone in America Christian but the Bible makes America America and so we get our troops from that in the Bible teaches us that there's some very unique lines or authority. In this world one isn't I wish I could do a drawing for you it's really easy to see but there's circles for a calmer founding fathers taught this circles of authority we have a story of the government which is what we're speaking to you right now we also have the authority of the church which is another authority that the Bible speaks of and we have another story on the home all three of those circles of authority always. Connect to each other they touch each other but they do not intersect over one another the only way that we ever get and thorny crossing biblically speaking and the way our country set up is to the individual authority I affect my government by being involved in it with the vote hi affect my church by being a part of it grows in leadership or just in attendance in my home I have an authority got a set of the authorities and none of the Tories have the right to go into any other real authority except to the individual who can move from one to another therefore if we're not careful will cross these authorities and aggressive toward that we violate and what we're talking about here is the authority of the individual right whenever authority is in question our founding fathers did it and we should do is we always should ask. Does it violate individual forty that is the most important authority when it comes to influencing each other authority of the Bible teaches us something that's called and I'm I'm Baptist by my distinctive in so we learned taught teacher thing called individual soul liberty which means I have the right to be fully persuaded in my own belief in my own faith and I do not have the right to push my faith on anyone else although I have the right to through reason and and communication unable to speak into someone's life and that's what we're asking here is to be able to speak to your lives as individuals moving into the circle authority of government I'm asking Arkansas to be a leader in this realm of individual liberty in the United States and I'm all for if we're the only state that ever does this I would be happy to be a part of that and encourage you to choose individual liberty over collectivism because collectivism always has to take life in order to save the whole individual liberty always chooses live in choosing the individual life that we get to save the whole an individual manner every person has been given the right and this is a right has been given to us by our creator god as was mentioned already in the garden of Eden god gave man woman a choisi Gillam individual liberty it was the primary institution of authority and so my career and I pray for that I'm thankful for many of our representatives here I know some of you and I know you're doing a great job and I really more here to be a cheerleader to encourage you to continue to do the right thing I appreciate the time opportunity you've given us to do this so thank you very much. Thank you pass poster put Senator up hold on Senator Rice as a question. Appreciate to the pastoral share something with those it's here knows this live stream. When I ran for office in two thousand eight and I was out there like you first Senate politicians not telling your first. But let politician know what I believe to what I think right. Because that's what we need to do we need to lift our voices up. Been manager since since then and and we do some good and we do some things that that. I don't see and they don't understand always but one back up total when I was teaching Sunday school class and I'll tell you. Governments not conflict you prop. We can help. The people of Arkansas we're going to have to voice up. And with a loud enough voice. You can change things. That's just that's the excuse from pre advised. MSO I'm not asking for I get these these thanks if the tell me I'll dare you to do this in there you do that I'm trying to help they don't know they're just sending out something that the saying that I don't mind getting all. You're going to have to voice up. As all of you said we're this is coming down to head. And and the people are one school we have changes occurred you can continue on thank you Mr classe one zero quick as speaking from pastor of pastor we probably understand what you guys go through there's no way to make all people happy all the time you just try to do the right thing every time sometimes you make a mistake well raw human and that's where grace steps in and so I thank you. Thank you of Bronson Martin. Okay Laurie justice. Joey Matthew. Mack Ellis. Before you square me and before I start. Papers that I would like to leave the leave for yelp Victor bring up to you. We'll have a staff member come up here and just distributed okay. Thank you. If you will Mr also if you would group of Peter name and gives your employer of for the record my name is Mack hello some employed by pro hall three. Your raise your right hand. These sellers were a form of the testimony about to give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do. You may proceed. The one thing that I want to bring out in this is. This is still an experimental drug. You can't force people to put an experimental drug in their bodies it's just unconstitutional. And the other thing that I want to bring out is. The I was told last night. That the only reason that Tyson mandated employees to take the vaccine was because Walmart D. it and Walmart is the largest customer and they knew that Walmart was going to mandate them do the same. And I was told that by somebody that the should know and if you want to know who it is I'll tell you that you won't like the answer. There was Senator bart Hester. And I'll tell you something else for the record I didn't ask I know somebody here did so I told. And I'll tell you something else this legislative body is our last resort. If if you fail us now we have no. Peaceful recourse to stop what's going on here I'm not threatening anybody that's not my position at all I am telling you that I have been all over this country trying to prevent the exactly what's going on right here. In this state now. And if you fail us we have no more peaceful resolution. Thank you thank you Mr Olson I'm going to repeat an add on to what Senator Ross said. The. As I told people when I ran for office got one vote. And so I think people should be after the the legislature ought to stand up for. and I hope they continue to do that it was obvious to me that this was a subject I did not expect when I first decided to have the meeting thanks the controversial I thought was the bait that need to be helpful to refax we need to do here. the the No thirty people and wants to have the meeting. That being said. Number of people who call me. And. About their plan for mandates we're all medical people and mostly nurses and I said knowing what this current state of employment is period of a special in the medical field of my son actually some of them call my son and he called me and then others called me and I told everyone I said I wouldn't even have to interfere in the employee employer employee relationship if all y'all just said no they can't afford to lose only also this is a two way street as you look at the legislation say only to do something. You also need to do something of your freedom isn't free but sometimes we have to take a stand and I don't as much sometimes I don't have confidence that the legislature take a stand sometimes I don't have confidence in the ministry School texting because if they did. You would even have to be here talking to us. next Christy Minyard. Allen Childress. Mr Childress well if you will of. Remain standing and give us your name and employer for the record and Alan Childress I'm self employed and I'm also a member of a pro life organization called every twenty six dot org. Okay if you will raise your right hand do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony about to give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I think I would appreciate it if you would make a great person to try to keep a brief okay I I Before I got here I don't have forgot heroes in hayfield. Thirty minutes for that I was working on the sick goats are staying and I look pretty rough but I had an opinion I felt like was worth actually mom taking lessons place and he talks a lot better and I do looks a lot better to do but. I'm a private Christian business owner I'm not a big deal but I implore forty people I have thirty two service trucks and the question that I'm not even necessarily looking for direct answer but I think that I should. Have a sponsor at least for me is if any entity or the law can make an employer mandate that an employee has a vaccine then I want to be given the equal right to mandate that my employees don't take the vaccine because that it's as if I know words if I'm an at will employer I think that should work both ways if if if an employee can be mandated to have a vaccine and I want to mandate not to have a vaccine have that discussion I've had it individually and whatever corporately with our guys. Friday. So I don't know I don't know really one of the things that that that I've run into and I've I have a community out reach center where I try to at least. Best I can represent and help people that normally can't just help yourself which whatever arena that is in but I had a call the other day that happened that revealed the fact to me that everybody has a definition of what a religious exemption is. If I was if I was an employee of Tyson I'm not trying to pick on Tyson but I guess so we'll but if I was an employee of Tyson and I have a religious conviction and I'm going to go to their personnel for them okay and I'd like to know that I'm talking to Christian. To me that would be you know you would you would want to talk because the the the religious liberty that a Christian has is not based on what an employer said this base by god almighty. The second thing that this real quickly that I want to mention is that you know and I've even heard this I heard this from an ex are. two weeks ago. Not trying to beat up on the governor with the governor set there when someone asked the question in basically dismissed the fact that that didn't vaccines are made. At the expense of the unborn and it's irrefutable that's an irrefutable statement of all three vaccines one either has it in it. Or they were used as a proof of concept to develop it is the same thing I've met with lawyers from Charlotte losure right across from my desk I met with heartbeat international I'm a I've spent a lot of time on this issue even I probably can articulated very much but it is at the expense of the unborn. And this country is not a real you know it might not sound good and may not represent real political in it may not sound good in Little Rock. But this country's kill sixty two million babies. Sixty two million babies it's the blood guilt of our country and we're going to try to fix it with the blood guilt again and that is not going to work it's just it's just not going to work in my line of work I encourage our people to put the lord first your family second in your job third you have that order you're going to have a man this you're gonna have a man is on top of his game I have an act I have an average employee of ten years seventeen years that's unheard of in our industry I don't give myself any credit for that but I give I give that by trying to trying to exemplifying tried and not example by but tried to put god first in it and when you do that you're gonna have everything in order to know if you get the right guide you do things right in no there's not there's not gonna be any short cut for doing doing I think the way god god requires us to do it so you know I would I would encourage I mean I'll park calling I'm a little guy ties but I got thirty two service trucks someone to park every single one of them the Raman noodles of I have to to before and band and. My face and that's what you know you've there everybody has a a line there that they're just not willing to there's many more reasons to not take a vaccine this vaccine but the unborn is enough you don't have to go past that issue right there you can't perpetuate life in a in a Petri dish you can't rationalize killing a baby in nineteen seventy something and take that live in perpetuated in a Petri dish and that blood guilt not go away that's what we are in this country so thank you god bless. Thank you Mr Childress any questions. C. nine thank you of. Tom Joseph. Joseph if you will state your name for the record in their employer. Tom Joseph I'm with Weichert Griffin realtors Springdale when you're ready right hand do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do The New the party admonition please keep it brief yes thank you gentlemen and ladies representative serving here very respectful to everyone here in your time and I I have to I think everything that I have heard needs said is needed to be said I want to highlight a couple of things. But I think I want this just you know in my business I try to take complex make it simple. And I think I just wanna bore down and say you know what. And I saw a lot of land I grew up on a ranch in kind of country. but I would say this way really. This is this is really pretty simple. Okay this is about individual responsibilities it's about liberty. And this is simple. If I can treat you and you got I got a ninety nine point nine nine nine percent chance of you getting well with that metric as a healing mechanism. Why do I need to take the shot of I got a higher percentage of that of having a side effect or or being killed pretty simple. This is going to leave it there. Secondly I think I want to. I came here today I have never done this before but I came because I felt like this one issue is the flag of liberty right here. Because it represents exactly as the sentiment of speakers of many have said today except the big guys of Tyson and and these other guys are timeless they they own be these people they they on a. And I'm saying no we plant the flag here men and women we say no this is liberty. George Washington said government's first duty is to protect the people not run their lives. He also said guard against the impostors that that pretended patriotism. You ever notice how evil they changed definitions and taint change words in terms. It's impossible to reason without arriving that there is a supreme being said George Washington. May I get a better Franklin said he who would trade is security and liberty will have neither. Before I say my last one from a good president Reagan I want to say. I encourage all of you. In all my friends in Texas and around the country that I have who ran representation elected places of and I serving one up locally but is this you have a platform you have a privilege. Teach liberty teach responsibility that's the gift of liberty that's the sacrifice that we had that paid that people pay the way so you're not gonna have it. We don't have security there's no such thing is that so we know what doesn't work we know what can work. And so I just appreciate you I would encourage you use your platform use your influence teach liberty stand individually for the constitution never back down you know we're right truth is we hear truth get into the proverbs greatest book in the world to get people to go and maybe that is true yes it is true principles and one thing is the next personally I know that the author of truth. So I'll take a write down in addition to the lord. President Reagan said not leave with this thank you for your time you and I have a rendezvous with destiny we will preserve for our children this the last best hope of man on earth or will sentence them to take the last step into a thousand year of darkness I feel like that this one topic is the big domino they're trying to push over and if we lose this we go in they could go into is he said a thousand years of darkness thank you for your time. We appreciate all of you and God bless you. Any questions sing none thank you for coming. is there a bill Hickey your. Market Caldwell. Mr call will a few of state for the record your name and employer. And I Caldwell and my brothers and I most neighbors lawns okay. Of good for you your raise your right hand the song was were affirm that the testimony you're about to give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes maybe so. Well I'm seventeen and I will be voting this upcoming election and I will personally watching what don't do involve accordingly and so I just wanna let you all know that I am against the mandatory vaccines and that vaccines don't save Jesus saves and that I'm here to let you all know that We believe in liberty and justice for all and we would prefer to. Decide what we want to do with their bodies and. I am home schooled and I love history my country in this state and the specialist ready and I don't want to see anyone celebrity infringed upon especially by the legislator that we elected in. So please let us decide what we want to do with our bodies since this virus as a ninety nine percent survival rate. our country has always been for liberty so why should we stop now and so again I ask your respectfully please don't force us to take this shot slash vaccine and we have the right given by god to choose what we want to put in our bodies thank you. Thank you Mr call will any questions. You're dismissed. You're worth waiting for Marcy Cummings opium. Once the waters LPN. T. heir of. One on the consent. To your wrist. Could be Christians Christians. It looks like we have time to assist twice okay of Pamela Hollings worth. Orian Nathan Caldwell. And market has a brother. I thought I was gonna be able to congratulate Michael being the youngest ones today because it looks. If you of Mr call will will give us your name and your employer for the record. My name is anything because of a and workers name brothers doing lines if you'll raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. You may be seated. my name as they think of will and and fourteen years old. And I just want to say that. We all have our Personal rights and that. Two we shouldn't. Force people to take the vaccine It should be their own choice and that if people want to take the vaccine they should be able to do that but it should be their own choice and not the government's choice or their employers choice and I. A lover kind she in. I just want to. I want to live in a free country as I know many of you guys you guys with route will do to. And as John John that. freedom and want to be free and wanted this nation and everyone that this year to. Be free for as long as. Left permits. Thank you Mr call will any questions. Senator Johnson. Thank you Mr chairman Mr Caldwell even at your young age I can already tell you our great American thank you for your articulate and moving statement and appreciate you coming and sharing it with us thank you thank you Mr well. Thank you Mr call will you are dismissed we appreciate you coming Dr Kathleen right. Joi Ballard. DO Dayan's. The Dallas the bill or will so you get to tell us your name for the record. Everybody gets to correct me of so if you will distilled her full name for the record and your employer okay I'm Adela Davis and I'm a stay at home mom employed by five kids. And if you'll raise your right hand. And Fund mushy. Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes you may be seated. I'm really quick because I'm hungry and you guys are having a feeling shaky so and my phone died so I don't have my notes I'm wearing this services freedom keeper and it's because thirteen years ago I held the baby who was vaccinated and housed in a reaction and all I could do with that and hold him he made it but it didn't come without consequence and I get nervous because they also home school so I basically I Sam and governor will but that's not really true I take full advantage of my liberties I home school home birth my kids love or government like these kids you heard from them. But I needed to protect our freedom to be able to choose our vaccines. Because for some reason my family reacts. And then I became aware and became really good at reading the CDC website and I think something that's not come up is we keep referencing the CDC website as if they are the ultimate authority and everything so what if the vaccine comes back that you guys know that a lot of vaccines are like straight like big developing and then it just gets put out and we watch it we watch it for surveillance okay so we just got this surveillance back I believe he was either last year the year before on the whooping cough so on in detail we got the surveillance back on that you know what I discovered. It's kind of fascinating because If you're fully vaccinated you're more at risk of transmitting catching and transmitting whipping cough then unvaccinated OR vaccine status unknown. So what we do with the bad baxeen. If you have an incident you're still recommending the detached the detox on the childhood schedule so we don't automatically pull vaccines because they're backed. And so I think about that because the tab actually I don't know makes my son received seven back scenes that day there's no way for us to know what facts into the damage. Sitting. As a remote freedom keeper sure I am a fierce mama I'm thinking about my husband I'm thinking about my friends who contacted me because I'm the weird anti back school right no I was a mom who said yes my friends are contacting me saying aye alleging know anyone who can help us Hey friends who work high up in Tyson and we're hearing that Tyson is giving options but Tyson is also doing it with like a strong arm I have people deeply concerned and they're coming to me mom. They're at their end they need options. And the last thing I just wanna say aye. Image they thank you for your time but please consider your sources the CDC has no oversight and I don't know if you guys know that and also if you committee an anti VAX mom ask her her story what we're not Manitex we know how to read and that makes us dangerous thank you for your time. Thank you any questions from the committee. Seeing none thank you misstatements for being here. heather written our. We thank. Thank you and Nathan Hughes. The Committee Nathan Hughes is the last one on the list. Yes thank you will give us your name. And employer for the record my name is Nathan Hughes and I'm self employed. If you raise your right hand is almost four affirm that the testimony about here will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do you may be seated. Thank you all for being here in the state in a stand while so my name is Nathan Hughes I'm a small business owner and lifelong resident here in Arkansas I'm not one of the big dogs that was here they're like Tyson whose pocketbooks Randy but I am a voice for a large number of our Kansans the value their freedom afraid to speak out for fear of losing their jobs. I'm here today not to discuss whether or not you agree or disagree with vaccines to discuss the issue of medical choice for all employees in Arkansas allowing employers to force their employees to undergo a medical procedure and firing them if they don't is a blatant attack on freedom in a blatant attack on all workers here in Arkansas. One of the reasons used for mandating forced vaccines is for employees is safety seemingly disregarding the employee's individual freedom. People forget that freedom is the foundation for public safety without freedom the people are at the mercy of the government in its history shows that's never a good thing Freedom specifically individual medical freedom in this situation must always be protected. Another reason used for mandating vaccines is because employers claim that someone's vaccinations vaccination status is not currently a protected class and it's currently legal to do so and find people if they don't comply with these vaccine mandates there been a number of things in the past in this country that were deemed legal at the time later proved to be both a moral inhumane and illegal. By allowing employers to force vaccines on their workers you're on a slippery slope to dark times are past that we do not want to revisit. Let's call this what it really is medical discrimination claiming this new Scott new style of medical discrimination is legal and the right thing to do is unfathomably evil there needs to be a step back taken in this whole situation needs to be rethought mandating that employees inject the substance into their bodies is not an inconvenience as someone mentioned earlier today and to say that is absolutely despicable. What's being advocated for by large corporations and hospitals here in Arkansas goes against freedom and is both inhumane an egregious overreach this is about preserving individual freedom for people make their own personal medical decisions and not allowing employers to fire or restrict them based on their decision I wish more people understood this because this is the main point in all this mess. Elected representatives of Arkansas must stand in defense of individual freedom for all employees here in our state I'm speaking as an employer here in Arkansas a small one. If you allow employers to force vaccine mandates on their employees and fire them if they don't comply you were standing in support of medical discrimination and you are putting up a massive middle finger to the people that voted you into office there are two powerful forces in politics in the state the people and big business I'd encourage you to listen to the people on this one because there are a large number of our cans and our Kansans that feel the same way I appreciate you all being here and thank you for your time. Thank you Mr Hughes any questions. This mess of moving on to we've done any movement on the F. as or any other business. Hearing none of. Committees because we've got to committees here of. Let me say first of all the staff of we've got everything from Allison center beside me to security we very much appreciate you will note that you probably have missed dinner we know you Mr not probably. We we know you've missed enter on time with your family to stay here and do this job with us of appreciate you legislators state we know everybody can't none of us expected to stay this long of. The it was important that we hear of from Randy's look with the Arkansas state chamber of commerce Mr Brower with Tyson I appreciate both of them coming we invited more employers but I appreciate them coming and taking the hard questions of the other many others or didn't and they could they came in and took or questions of appreciate the attorney general's office and Mr Steinberg who answered legal questions for us because there's been a lot of a lot of debate about what does the law say and I think we got some answers there for check the department of health and Dr Chapman forgiveness medical medical perspective and then the the employees whose jobs are in danger who came to testify for many and then those who have been hurt by vaccines. because you know for me that's always been so much way out there somewhere and not somebody I know and now or somebody I know of so. but as important as all that Wallace I just want to tell all of you that stayed I would have done whatever you wanted to do a legislators as chair all but I am so proud of you because I don't think there's anything more important we didn't. Then hear from the people who drove all this way just to tell us what they thought I don't I know there's a handful of our number that think we're yokels for stay in but I'm proud of you and I appreciate your of and we appreciate all your cares enough. Bills returned.