State Agencies & Govt'l Affairs - House and Senate

Your call. Meeting is called to order. Committee members who are you know we're meeting jointly today reference aggression redistricting we have three bills on today's agenda before we get started let me just make of break opening comments what we'll do of the sponsors of the bill will go to the table to present the bill just thought we would NO a regular committee meetings I am once they presented the bill then they'll have the opportunity of the committee members will ask questions of the sponsor concerning their bill. eighty one here that's a non committee member will also be allowed to ask questions but it'll only be added to the committee members have a had an opportunity to ask their questions then after that the then it will be opened up to the public anyone that is here from the public that would like to speak for against one of these bills or any of them are all level there's a sign up sheet just on the outside be sure and to sign in which bills your here to speak for against and then we'll recognize you at that time and for members of the public have spoken for against the bill at that time the sponsor will be allowed to return to the table and close with the bill now committee members you know you received it information this is the first of three meetings that will have. Of bills that were filed up through last Friday will be heard today bills are filed today tomorrow and Wednesday will be hard of hearing committee on Thursday and the bills that are filed Thursday and Friday will be heard back your committee on Monday there will be no up or down vote on these bills would just be list until I'm asking questions and the there will be no voted anytime and then once we go back into session those bills will be will be filed and then be assigned by the Senate pro tem and the Speaker to the respective committees. That's the thank that hopefully got to give you an overview of of what to expect at this time let me talk to my Cochair Senator Rapert give any comments thank you Mr chairman no nothing else other than the fact that we've been a long time coming to this point and I can't imagine how these committees would be any better prepared we've had several months that we didn't expect that we've got to talk about this and this is about the process I second everything that chairman Tasha said and look forward to us getting to the session being able to start truly making some decisions so thank you committees. Thank you senator right but also in the running today is bill or is Michelle Davenport Machel and Matthew Miller they're in the back in case we have any questions from committee members in regards to any legal questions are here to answer those before we call our exposure per sponsor there any questions from committee into the committee members. Sam Nunn I will remind the committee members of the House members know this if you have a question you do is you up will acknowledge you to Ali knowledge nature I ask your question you have a follow up I would ask that you give permission before yes your follow up. Of. If you have another question after that it would determine whether I have okay predates that question not depending on how many people we have waiting to ask questions so let's follow that procedure how will cause everything to go a lot smoother so with that said say no further questions at this time uh we will. Now here house bill nineteen fifty nine as house bill one nine five nine representative speaks you're recognized to. The. Represent the space if you would just defy yourself well no even defy yourself to the committee for the record. Thank you Mr chair I am Nelda speaks from district one hundred. Thank you represent you speaks you're recognized to present house bill one nine five nine I understand you have some handouts is that correct I believe that they are and to do all the desk. Committee members there should be a handout reference to hi nineteen fifty nine in front of you. Anyone did not receive that hand out raise your hand and I'll make sure you get a copy of it. Okay representive Lowery does not have would. Hold on just second representative speaks will get her. Anyone other representative Lowery need to copy. Okay. The representative speaks reading that you're recognized. Today I present to you a congressional map that I know is a very good man and one that will stand the court to challenge if necessary. As you can see this map takes away the from the first district Lincoln County and it puts the split that was in Jefferson County back into the fourth district this map also places Marion and Ben counties into the first district as well as place in the split that was in Searcy County back into the first district the only changes that I made to the second district is moving Van Buren County and to the fourth district as already mentioned in this map removes bone Ameren counties to the first district it also lays all of Crawford and Sebastian County into the third district it places all of pole and Newton and as I said before Lincoln into the fourth district this map leads to Shea and jet Chico in the first district after hearing from citizens and those district no two counties asking to remain in the first district state representatives from those counties wants to remain in that the first district county judges of those counties what to remain in the first district and one of the principles that we were asked to follow and to keep the region's together to share and cherry and Chico they are row crop farmers. Did the counties and the fourth district that bump up to them their tree farmers J. Cole and DJ is better fit into the first district. This map meets all the principles we were asked to follow it does not split a single County. This map maintains districts as previously draw as close as possible. America requires a census every ten years for only one purpose and that is to balance the population of the congressional districts this map has the four congressional districts under one percent per population. In closing this map can be defended if it's challenged in court and the last thing that we want is to have the court system to draw the districts. I would appreciate a good vote when you get ready to vote for on the maps. And I'll be happy to take any questions. Senator garner you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chairman this maybe prime more appropriate for staff member so the early discussions we talk about the deviation percentage and what is constitutionally been hailed as what the deviation could be from the ideal population to what the actual population is we get a refresher on that real quick that deviation amount that is loud is anybody have that handy. Be a large may get away the table and given just a second Senator will get your questions answered thank Mr in. Representative speaks if you would allow just opportunity here for BLR to answer senator Gardner's question yes I would be happy for them thank you. The young lady question repeated. No thank you okay. Senator garner at this time there is not a constitutionally established percentage for a deviation. The cases have buried and actually the court has come out pretty strongly and said that they're not going to set a standard percentage when it comes to deviations they're going to look at the totality of the circumstances involved in the situation that is a little bit different if you're looking at some of the statewide congressional and house districts there's a lot more discussion within the courts about percentages in those particular situations the only constitutional mandate of course is one person one vote and that has been determined as much as practicable is the term that the Supreme Court has chosen to use in defining what is one person one vote US so that summarize is not really a set standard percentage but that was a term or use practical or as close as practicable close as practicable okay good and that was kind of leading to my real question if I can as chairman real quickly it seems like since there's not really a set number that we need to anticipate any growth changes that will happen Arkansas the next ten years before the next one to make sure representation's club it's close possible and it seems pretty easy that the Northwest Arkansas central Arkansas region covered by the second and third district organ have exponential growth while likely trend show self Arkansas in East Arkansas continue on population decline so I think any matter we do needs to reflect that deviation more in those districts need to the other ones because future population growth thank you Mr chairman. Thank you senator any other questions for bill or whether it to table before. Representative of senator Clark you're recognized. Thank you thank you Mr chair I'm just curious about the deviation to follow up on senator garner from ten years ago I don't know if you'll have that information with you now but it was twenty five point two in one district and twenty five point four and either I just I don't I'm I'm curious what those deviations were made just for that one example but the last couple times I'm sorry senator Matthew Miller with bill are the last map it was very very very low like in between to the county that was twenty M. between two it was two hundred I think the percentages were like point zero one point zero zero one that's what that was a result of splitting precincts print counties obviously you can drop it down lower if you're doing that if you're not splitting counties there's only a certain variation you're gonna be able to work within the courts of recognize that before that if that's the criteria that's important to you that it's only going to be within a certain range so again it's very fact driven very criteria driven as to what that meant entity doing the reapportionment is trying to accomplish so ten years ago what you're saying is the deviations were point zero one point zero zero one percent of my understanding that we're a very very small yes Sir. And for either you or Michelle I understand there's no hard and fast brightline number but other cases the Supreme Court has approved you know if there's up to one percent deviation or do we have examples from the Supreme Court or other courts where some deviations have been approved constitutional perspective I'll be happy to get those specifics I hate to speak I know that there's a lot of cases I know that there was a case that I cannot recall if it was a congressional on or if it was actually within a state house of representatives and it was as low as point three seven and it was disapproved because of the surrounding factors so there are a lot of variation in these cases both ways but the part that has really stuck out is that they refused to give us that brightline at you have heard one percent in several cases talking about congressional districts at one time but again the more recent case said they refused to make that right one determination. Thank you very much thank you Mr. Any further questions from committee members for bill or whether it to table at this time. You saying none representative speaks thank you for allowing us to do that during your presentation appreciated did you say you're ready for questions yes any questions from committee members for representative speaks. You saying none thank you Mr chair okay let's see. We've had some people to sign up to speak against the bills but they didn't indicate. Which bill they were here to speak against or for so. Mr Robert Walker you in the room. Yes Sir it is it is it. Are you here to speak against this bill here the one that was just presented. Okay we'll go ahead have a seat at the table. Yeah. I'll come on up here. Walker just devastate. You would turn on your mac of its not already own. Those who push a button and running. The. Thank god there all right okay I'm upper Walker I'm a citizen the passkey County I worked my appreciate in Little Rock special election this Tuesday whatever you do don't split a precinct because I have to have more ballots in it confuses me. Now I am a citizen the passkey County historically Pulaski County the person elected by Pulaski County has not gone to Congress therefore in a sense we are disenfranchised. A if you will combine Jefferson County and Pulaski County together since they both Everton centers I think more citizens will be represented by the person they vote for for Congress if you will do that. And it's real simple of voter should be Be represented by somebody they vote for that's impossible it won't happen but I think it will work better with Jefferson and Pulaski County together thank you Sir. Any questions just members for any questions from committee members for Mr Walter. Walker also have you signed up to speak up against the other two bills would there be any additional testimony or we what you said here would also apply to the other two so we don't have to call you back or do not know none of them link Jefferson County with asking County so I think you should come up with another bill okay so your testimony would be the same if you were speaking against the other two bills as well yes Sir okay thank you for that thank you. I also signed up and again I'm not sure if they're here to speak against this bill or another when you just have to tell me Sarah Donglin are you in. Are you here to speak against the bill that was just presented. Disclaimer you would just come round have a seat at the table I'm having trouble hearing you. Studland if you would just a glance at Docklands that correct. Thank you if you would just push the might push the button there and there you go if you would identify yourself and then you're recognized make a comment I'm Sarah Dunklin I'm first congressional district chair of the Republican Party of Arkansas I am a female farmer one of the few in this state I've also served two terms on the USDA FSA state board and I have also served on the Mississippi River parkways Commission. I do agree with representative speaks in that DJ and she goes should remain in the first but I will say I will add to that in say that Arkansas is Roque R. roll crop farmers in Arkansas we feed the world and I think when it comes to drawing these maps sometimes we forget that and so part of Lincoln most a lot of link and drew a nationally our row crop farmers and when we throw those in our our congressman has also in agreement with keeping all the counties that we have in the first in the first now because the guard the goal is to add counties to the first in the fourth but our economies. Of the row crop farmers are all similar in so it seems to me that sometimes when we are looking at at which way these counties are gonna go down south we there's favoritism shown to those tree farmers and as us on the on the east southeast corner of the state while we ate we definitely appreciate those counties being moved into the first so we can be with with like a con amis and during the last redistricting we definitely want to keep our roll forming rope crop farmers together Arkansas is the number one rice producer in the country I did represent rice on the US state DA FSA state board having being able to have a congressman that you can call that is a is on both the ad committee in the house intelligence and as Rick sees it it is Definitely an issue of national security it really helps when you've got all the row crop farmers in the same area who are helping to feed the country so that would be my one comment there I'm also for keeping other to top Barker full regions together in this state so whether it be a river basin or or an hour for other areas so thank you of representative speaks for. Your maps. Just made a mistake any questions from committee. This duckling. Just make any questions from committee members. J. nine thank you for your testimony thank you. Just been represented fate has a question. Thank you Mr thank you Miss docking procedure but but I'm just trying to. Question the reasoning a little bit okay so row crop farmers if they're all grouped into one congressional district. It seems that they would have less representation than if they influence to congressional districts of if if you have some of row crop farming representative in two different districts then there's two different congressmen added to our forty five thank you that they could influence and speak to. well I believe that a representative Payton that's been tried in the past so last time she go in DJ were moved into the first congressional district and it worked a lot better because what And so in Lincoln right so with those counties in the first congressional district they were able to have a representation to a congressman who sat on the act Committee at work a lot better so if I in other words if you're a farmer in Chico county okay or in Lincoln County Lincoln's golden Grady a lot of forms of in that county as well and and I would say Ashley County Andrew county as well if your former in those counties it's a lot easier to call up the guy on the ad committee right than it is to call up the congressman that does it only that's it that's all he has is just this little piece over there. Of of row crops so I would I would disagree with that. Well and I I appreciate that as I'm in business and I'm a car dealer but you know as a as a car dealer I mean out if something's going to influence my business I wouldn't feel restricted only contact with the representation that a vote in that district I know as a state representative I I'm contacted by a lot of people outside of my district about issues that may be that I'm working on the especially if you're on the ag committee it seems like you take a call from a farmer outside the district but I appreciate it thank you for answering my questions. Thank you Mr. Say no further questions from committee members miss not going to be excused thank you. Also signed up to speak up against this bill or a is Laurie black. Is black you the ten. You would just have seated table. Like I believe the microphone is already on it looks like all right my name is Laurie black I own property and she got County district county of Polk Pulaski County. Washington County I think hot springs county different homes around the state so I know the different areas very well personally my main business my main source of income is a historic family farm in the city council Pickens Arkansas. my main home is in Chicot County in Lake Village Arkansas and we find it vitally important that we keep our representation with the row crops like minded citizens you know I think the Bible speaks of a chord with many strings being the strongest and we have our per like minded people bound together working together we find that we get our best representation in it And best results and Rick Crawford centre wonderful job. Moving mountains to attend and be present and available to the needs of the people in this area and to it's worked well for us. We do we would like to keep. Lincoln County we'd love to have some Jefferson County. But you know the people that are in Marion County and then county so far over. What we have in common with them. So if we could keep our like minded people the source of our income the same we find that that gives us some strength. That's all I have to say I was I was appointed to the keep Arkansas beautiful Commission by Mike Huckabee twenty one years ago and I served on the governor's mansion Association for number of years and I'm the incoming chairman of the she go County Republican Party okay thank you just moments but any questions from committee members. Say none. Blake you makes huge thank you for thank you so much I appreciate being here. Say no one else signed up to speak for against the bill representive speaks. You close with your bill if you have any closing comments you closed. Okay. Thank you Mr chair in closing I wanted to say she talked about Boone County and Marion County they are the heel counties just like Baxter and and some of them going up through there also they are Turkey's check and we're in the poultry best except in there so it kind of breaks away with the farmer farmers and that done and so the that's one in making this come out because my whole goal was not not to separate and divide these counties it is such a problem when you do this and it's been a real problem for this census what nor had did that did divide up some of our counties and so in order to get on and the engine I know I heard that there is you could see we are quite a bit the law the one percent and that's what my the goal was to do and that was the one line that I divided these up like they are and I'd still appreciate a good vote thank you Mr chair thank you representative speaks of project you testimony and appreciate you bringing the bill next item on today's agenda. It is a house bill nineteen sixty representative Ladyman. Committee members you should have a four year a Copy of house bill nine sixty. Attached to that should be a copy from representative Ladyman as a map for the congressional map. Along with the bill and also not attached to that I believe represent the leading of your correct me you have another handout making sure all committee members got it it's the should say across the top to twenty twenty congressional redistricting changes by district if you don't have that hand out raise your hand will get you a copy of it. It was like every representative gray doesn't have. The print representative gray doesn't have one up on yeah we're getting a one. Tell us what. That it anyone else need a copy. All right here and. Okay I believe that's gonna run may want to copy representing Ladyman. You're recognized president house bill nineteen sixty. Thank you Mr chairman of the committee of the handout is just the things that I want to talk about I want to talk in some detail about the moves and I just want you to have that taken consider look over for later on. So the goal of the map that I made was to make as few changes to the current congressional map as possible so the the the least amount of moves as possible and get population balance right so I've got on that sheet of got a break down by the districts so if you look at the map you look at district number one the target population is going to be the same for all of them but it's seven or fifty two thousand eight hundred eighty one this map actual populations is seven or forty seven thousand two hundred six so it's deviation of point seven five percent. And the moves related to this district. I moved to Marion County in the district one and Newton County the district one. And I removed parts of Jefferson county into district four and made that a whole county in district four. I move part of White County into district one and split that county the upper northern part of White County was moved over to balance the population as the only reason for that move. District to. Again the the deviation there is point nine six percent populations be seven or sixty thousand and ninety four the only change to that district was to move the northern parts of one county in the district one to balance the population. District number three. A deviation is point three four percent seven fifty five thousand form thirty voters the moves in district number three I moved pope county in the district for the Marion County in the district one and move part of Newton county into district one. District number four deviation is minus zero point five four. The moves in that county move part of Newton county in the district one the Polk County and to do it and to the district. I move part of Jefferson county into district for. So that the map that I made only changed these counties Marion Newton pope Jefferson and white counties. Of the new map only splits three counties why Crawford and Sebastian Crawford and Sebastian were already split the only reason I didn't change that is because I didn't have to make that change. So the only added split County was white. A Jefferson and Newton were split in the current map. But they are not split in my map. So now we were given an R. training we're giving criteria to look at we're making these maps so what I did is I looked at each one of those criterias and try to see if I am you know sticking to those and and drawing a map that fits within those parameters so compactness very little change was made to the compactness of the current map so if the compactness of the current map is good this map and change that very much continuity all parts of all districts are connected with the rest of the district so there's no fingers or wings or anything like that. Preservation of counties and other political divisions only one additional council was split from the previous map into split counties were eliminated and converted to full counties. Preservation of core of prior districts the goal of this map is to make a few changes to the current map as required by population changes so if what we've had over the past ten years is good we're getting the same core districts. avoiding pairing incumbents no incumbents were paired with this map. Population deviation all districts are less than one percent deviation point seven five zero point nine six percent point three four percent in point five four percent. I could have gotten this lower backs changing precincts and white and Sebastian County I actually had one map that got it down to the highest deviation was a hundred and thirty four between the four districts that was the maximum deviation but again that's shaving precincts and adjusting White County Down Sebastian County up so that's possible that that's something that we want to look into a gerrymandering was another thing that was brought up in the training No of no new districts were drawn to give one group or party an advantage. I do want to know one thing on the map. there's one change that I'll need to make all of Searcy County must be moved into district one in the current map there's a little small portion in the corner of Searcy County that's in district three and that's got to be moved to one I just did not get that into the bill. so with that I'd I'd take questions but again the primary purpose here is the minimum number of changes. Senator garner you're recognized for a question yes Sir I'm sorry for the comments I appreciate you Miss factsheet two is because I think it's helpful but if you look at your bill and then the next bill it doesn't include the population bring break down that representative speaks bill did And talking the staff that's something that they can easily put it with the software they have and I would ask that members who bring further bills would have that on there so we can see that deviation from county to county your provide that your fact sheet and so on good for you but. Well I had I had individual maps like represents the exam but they didn't get loaded in yes that's something I would request in each member want to bring something to that such more comment about my question you Sir is similar how to ask before it seems like when you start your map all you're putting the fourth district and the first district behind the curve as far as population goes both of those districts already start off at a lower percentage than whatever the ideal number is you look at the population trend gross of Arkansas for last twenty years and at eight natural conclusion we'll see the next ten years is of the third and the second district will be our biggest areas of growth I don't think that's a controversial statement say Northwest Arkansas central Arkansas was where our population is likely to grow so it seems like by your map to start to districts all that are going to be behind the ball in the next ten years behind the curve anyway anti under foot before the race even get started how do you attribute that as far as a map goes well Senator one thing I I don't totally agree with your statement because if you look at the fight the seven counties that grew the most four were in Northwest Arkansas two are in northeast Arkansas only one county in central Arkansas grew and was in that top growth group so I I don't believe that the second I don't think you can say that the second is growing faster than the first I know with the rule counties thrown in there but there's a lot of growth going on in the first is because well but that's we don't know what's going to happen but I'm not sure that. That saying that is an accurate statement of. But I did not look at that to answer your question a really didn't look of out ten years to see what that might do I think you raise a valid point I think we ought to consider that but I don't think that's one of our high priorities status we have the numbers of what the okay you have a you have a follow up yes Sir I'm just going to see if we had that the percentages numbers and district one from two thousand ten to the current two thousand twenty how much it would either increase or decrease in population those ten years I know staff had it available quick if not we can move all. Just a minute senator garner. Yes Sir I know I'm kind of asking a shop here. Senator Garner will get that information we don't really have have available for this meeting but that will be furnished to you another committee members thank you if they're going to do that I like it for each congressional districts the two thousand ten diverse what decrease or increase was thank you Sir so noted. Senator Clark you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair thank you represent Lehman my question the deviation for the second district as point nine six percent which is pretty close to one. Percent and you have moved part of White County into the first and I'm I'm guessing in this is what I want to ask I'm guessing that if all of White County were solid in the second district that the deviation will be more than one percent yes and this back to center guards question there was not a lot of population that need to be moved out of the second district because the growth was not great I don't know the differences in one and two but so easy it was really hard to move the whole county. Just because of the number was not great. A but that deviation could be brought down by taking more White County you you couldn't take all of White County I don't believe it out it would be too much right right but you senator Clark you have follow up yes Mister chair with your direction thank you so you sensually just took enough of White County from the second to the first in order to lower the deviation under one percent okay all right thank you. Thank you senator Senator Dismang you have a question. You're recognized thank you Mr chairman of and I'm just curious when you were prioritizing what you're going to cut in and split what will why why did you prioritize making that split in White County as opposed to Van Buren or or somewhere else what what how did you make that determination well you know the biggest difference in my map and representative speaks map was that she took and your and I believe it was out of there and I did not consider that the main reason I took those out of White County is because that kind of is a projection the county this kind of projected out. And I just thought that would be the best place to take them out. Can I follow what we mean by reject recognized for a follow up. the compactness. The. Suggestion in the rules keep a compact square round rectangular and that kind of sticks out there. That's my only reason okay thanks. Senator Pitsch you're recognized for a question. Just minutes senator having trouble getting my. Can you mobile weren't able to connect your mac could used. Side you. Yeah. There you go that's good we got staged okay question for you Jack two things one you mentioned. That Crawford County and Sebastian County obviously personal me ten years ago that was a humongous issue for us that we actually divided the city down its main street into two different congressional one of the things maybe I really liked about representative speaks is look like we didn't have any county divided because that's a very detrimental thing when you're trying to do that and now is the time to fix it as opposed to let's continue on so I hope you think of that as you go forward the second thing it's kind of an offshoot of the questions Senator Garner ask and maybe who knows your right who knows who's going to grow but if we're going to start with two districts that are below the number of the seven hundred fifty two thousand I don't think you'd start with first district in fourth district thank you to start with the first and third district from the standpoint they're going to grow they've showed growth I know Jonesborough scrolling but you also have however many other counties that our rural that don't appear to me and at some level this might go to Senator Dismang is question if you keep counties together and talk White County total and then picked up as representative speaks then a couple other counties to get the population above the threshold in the first in the fourth to start with might be a better winning formula I think those I think you raise real good points thanks. Play no further questions from committee members. Representative Ladyman with a. One person to speak on behalf of this bill that's re back with the with you and the audience please. Blake you just good over like room. Mr read if you would just identify yourself for the committee and then you're recognized to speak you speak for against the bill well I'm my name is Rebecca to wet from Lincoln County and I am just here to say I support a bill that does keep Lincoln County in the first district. So that that is the point I was wanting to make that okay for that thank you any questions from committee members. Say none thank you ma'am from coming in. Thank you your statement we appreciated representative later in you're recognized close we mail. Yes just in response to the comment I know Lincoln is similar to the other counties around there but that's just one of those counties that use the balance so I try to leave it in there but Just one comment you know I believe it's good that we're doing this we're looking at the different maps and then some good suggestions on my map to to make changes and I like a representative speaks map so I plan on working with everyone who presents today to come up with the best map thank you Mr chairman. Thank you representative Ladyman. Committee members next item on today's agenda. The house bill nineteen sixty one the representative would occur. Medi medi would you turn that might occur representative would return that by a couple. Thank you. Whitaker the device up to the committee in you're recognized present your bill. State representative David Whitaker house district ninety five. Thank you Mr chair thank you committee of one of the benefits. Of being the third person to do this is you actually see how the process is going to work so to start out of do you want to address a couple things right up front that came out of the first to the discussion the first two bills Like Jack this is I see this is a process Today was the first chance I got to hear the strong feelings of folks and she going to say county so that what color my thinking going forward of. Deviation I I personally having you know read the case law feel like we we may be fixating on that a bit too much. although I understand you want to keep it as low as possible you can't do that at the expense of other ballot policy concerns and whether as Mr board said the court has every time it's been given the opportunity set out a private bright line of one percent less than one percent one point five percent said no we're not doing that. So. Personally as an attorney I would caution you from getting too caught up in that. but the only time you do deviate is if you have solid public policy reasons for it. Early on in this discussion hi I'm don't think I'm alone when I heard everybody saying if you can do a map that doesn't split counties to amend the doesn't split counties and so that's where we are here and that's probably part of why you see some large deviations and and my. Of that being said. I do still have like the first draft that had almost everything. Not nonexistent deviations but the problem there was when talking to constituents and other concerned people about the first version of the map my original map. I had Carroll County. Going into the first. And Franklin being kept in the third. folks at that way were very strong in their beliefs. That Carroll County as part of the historic core of the northwest Arkansas third district and the Franklin County was actually more suited to be a room considered a river valley county. I'll be the first to admit being a third being from the third district it's the first and the fact that it was the one they need to shut the most people it was the first part we look that we started the process of doing this map you know how can parking we shrink down the population get closed again to the target while still having a discreet compact districts based on I. forty nine corridor as the backbone of a culture like economic power. From there we look at the second. Now as some have said the second four as from a driver's point of view and that was my first profession was easy to do M. and because it didn't grow so much from last time that it needed to lose a lot of people and the current conveniently similar to what representative speaks to I saw the numbers and mandron county were just about right to get of the second district right on target. In my in my suitcase though I I actually move in during the first just fill in that. It would have the folks there would have been warming affinity to the county to the north and east of them in the hill country. Nothing more than that. Of. The other deviation from what the to the first the not I won't is or deviation the other difference. Because I want to confuse terms the other difference big difference between mine and the other two that we seem so far. Is that Madison County. Comes back in the third district in whole and the folks in Madison County are absolutely adamant livid about this of their a long start times to this day our circuit judge in Washington County ride circuit out of Madison County to hear cases of it's it's just part of most every half the people you meet in fat bill. Either are from or have ten in Huntsville in Hinesville so we within you have long associations so that's one of the reasons here we pole Madison then for sure. I'm amenable to returning to the first version of the map all though there is another reason I made changes for the first version because in the first version we have a an arm of the. Forthcoming almost all the way to the Missouri state line and and we're trying to get away from arms and tentacles and fingers or what S. Jarvis called the salient which anytime you put a long string anything out. Where it's covered surrounded on three three sides by another political entity and and they're just. But they always lead to trouble. you look at the. Let's see if I room I remember my instructions here. If you look at the current third district. It's a it's a and and my apologies to the previous generation who drew this but this is a case study in how not to draw maps. it I call it the board for sure. And if there's any anything in the world it does is make you wonder how how much of the fourth district you have to drive across to get to the other half of the third so a lot of my focus was on getting everything back compactness having when when a regular or cans and who doesn't know anything about all this case law don't know anything about your deviations or anything else look at a map they go well that seems fairly balanced there's nothing sticking up here or flailing out there. And I stuck with the no split counties I have received incredibly positive feedback both from folks and Sebastian County and a woman almost in tears in Crawford County saying thank you bless you is the craziest thing in other people across the pastor and other congressional district. Of. If you if you you know. Look at the new good book you'll find there's a case called Carter that says holding. Existing political boundaries like cities and counties keeping those whole or is a sound invalid public policy reason for deviating from. The percentage of others that being said Iran with Jack I'm certainly happy to work to bring deviations down particularly of we're senator garner points out that in the third of. There's a concern that if you go hi now you're gonna be in a bigger bigger pada mass in ten years and you are. but what we also have to understand is. Straight line production doesn't work with population growth I mean it may not be a who knows some great thing in ten in the next over the next decade could explode in a explode in the first or fourth district that lead to an area taking off I mean forty years ago. Nobody can expect could have expected to see what the third district has become. I know when the if you look back in history historical congressional maps when Bill Clinton ran for the third congressional district Garland County was in the third district. And when I ran there were twelve counties in the district. And in in case anybody worried that I'm drawing this map for some potential future run I promise you I can assure you I have written that pulling it back on. But I'd be more than happy to take any questions. Any questions from committee members. Representative Pete you're recognized for a question thank you Mr chairman I appreciate what you're several of these maps of done with the keep in the counties together but I'm kind of doing some math and I've looked at representative speaks who gave us the number for the third district mine issue Madison County which is I'd determined is the only thing different between yours and ours and she had seven hundred forty six thousand population when I look at Madison County it's almost seventeen thousand so that's going to put your third district in the seven hundred sixty three southern sixty four thousand dramatically over already before that we continue to allocate for girls I I I understand I've spoken to folks in Madison County on the statewide campaign and I've heard their their plea because they're not in it now and they feel kind of out on the arm but I don't think we can start with the third district that's thirteen thousand Levin thousand whatever it is over the threshold knowing what the growth is been up there and I don't know how to fix that I sure don't want offer UPS dividing up Crawford Sebastian County again and I think that's one of the things I think I liked about center representative speaks as model is there slightly under but I think most of us feel pretty comfortable being slightly under the third they're going to catch up with the growth there see and every day any thoughts on that that's kind of what I see the difference I appreciate that can the the parallelism between yours and representing speaks but that's the one thing I have that I just don't think third district in southern sixty three thousand is going to be a. Workable Sturch probably and and and and I appreciate that and recognize everyone's concern I was concerned by two when we when we pulled up and and again to echo what of represent Ladyman said. In the in the hand out to actually have the four maps broken out the deviations and numbers are actually printed in here and unfortunately we don't have those for you today. Seven six two yeah it's it's it's more it's the highest one and it really bothered me but there was there is a a written there is a. Balancing act that you do when you're doing this the crazy thing is just sitting there at the computer and you say try this County and they try it and the number one swings wildly one way anything no no because of this one over there and the needle won't move. But I I I appreciate the input and certainly I'm going to look over the next few days working with the others to get that number into a ball park and still hopefully try to get medicine and remember me we may need to let our friends Carol can Carol go. To get back to it to a better balance because under the old one. With a. Addison M. Carol Alves. At the deviation in the third of minus point one five. So there's there are ways to do this it's just want to get here and see what you're really allow this is getting your input in knowing the things that we couldn't think about where set by the computer doing. So I'm amenable to making these changes to get that number back into a more hospitable range. Representative Ladyman you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr I'm right here I appreciate the Madison County question because my wife has a lot of relatives in medicine can I get one page letters put it in there. There's a lot of people up there that wanted in there and and I agree with you that's what I would like to see it go but the numbers you just cannot work the numbers out I don't know any other way let's hearing there to do it and that was gonna be my questions already been answered but yeah president you looking at that I'd like to do it on and do it what we'll find a way because I sources said amendment it was a legitimate and then that's when you ask people what do you think of the maps Amago Y. and Madison County and the third is the first question of and then like everybody else in the room goes yeah why not so that's where we are they need a voice I'm I'm I'm trying to provide that to them you know back when I was working on the district prosecutor's office I sometimes rode circuit with a W. prosecutor had cases in Madison County that day of so yeah there's there's a strong tie there as you know having having lived up in Northwest Arkansas in a previous life. Represent the guy you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair I don't have the handout that has each district on it has a deviation can you just read those to me with the deviations are do you have those for each district the way you have drawn. We do and they are available from B. R. we just it when asked us what we want to display the hearing they didn't that wasn't one of the choices yeah we can get them to you I'm okay I thought you had a with you as well I don't have to have them with me readable. which one are you interested just all for okay of district under this process the specific regular map here district one with me minus one point seven two okay. District two would be point zero nine. Three would be one point three three. Okay. And for would be point two nine. Okay thank you Robert. Senator Clark you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair my questions really you may know the answer representative would cover my questions really probably for staff. the. The first question is I've been made aware that these maps are not available online and I was hoping for the public that we can make these available online and I don't know. What we need to do to make that happen if that's possible one. Sir Clark to maps will be available and I will be online after this meeting. The correct okay thank you and I have one more question probably also for staff Mister chair of that's okay just as we did again on this these lines on these maps within the counties are those precinct lines. I'll defer on that some of the maps printed up strangely. That. Senator about a future with the red lines. No I'm talking about all lands the small ones within each county appreciate they said. Okay thank thank you Michelle thank you Mr I'm I'm down for that okay. Senator Elliot you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair along with the maps that will be information that was presented with and be online as well like the information they gave us all the deviations and so forth. And robin informed that the sponsors of the bill approve it and then the staff can put it online is brought to the the breakdown of the bill okay well I respectfully ask the sponsors to please give them permission thanks thank you Mr thank you. Say no further questions from committee members object to would occur No one signed up to speak for or against the bill. So you're recognized close with your bill. Thank you Mr chair of justice in closing up. Thank you for the opportunity president of I'm going to take the input that we picked up here today And we work this map and get those numbers down to have your number I'm also going to see what I can do to take care of the room crop farmers and she can show a county I'm so far up in the north northwest sometimes I don't realize that being just in south Arkansas doesn't mean you're you're a. Share share common interest with the timber industry about its right certainly makes sense to me and we'll take a look at that and that may give us that may give us some of them numbers we need to move some of the others down when I when I when I filed and I told chairman Tasha said you know what I'm a final bill that don't have do anything but we have out there basic map that follows the precepts of the case law. Because after a hundred years of selling ice cream and thousands of unique flavors vanilla is still one of most popular selling brands and I felt like as a service to this body we need of an element just be able to or life but to jump into something goes bad wrong but I appreciate your time god bless you all. Thank you Sir representative I'd like to thank representative to speak representative Ladyman and representative would occur for bringing these bills today a lot of hard work and a lot of good information for this committee thank you committee for a man involved we will meet again Thursday at one o'clock to hear bills are filed today tomorrow and Wednesday so of my culture you have any closing comments no comments from Senator Rapert committee members this meeting is adjourned. Just.