Senate Convenes

Testing one two three testing. Senate will come to order madam secretary please call the roll. Ballinger Beckham Bledsoe Caldwell Chesterfield Clark Davis Dismang Eads Elliott English Flippo flowers Garner. More hammer Hendren Hester Hickey Hill Ingram Irvin Blake Johnson Mark Johnson Leding Pitsch Rapert Rice sample Stubblefield Sturch Sullivan Teague Tucker Wallace. Everyone please stand including those in the gallery. Before I pray I just like to mention of the passing of Larry low. Sure you all heard about Larry passing initially. just I just ask that you Keep his family who continues to grieve and your prayers Larry was often right there and always smiling and does so Larry is missed and we will continue to think about Larry and his family please bear with me in order prayer. You have only father thank you for life thank you for allowing us to be here to serve the lord we thank you for all of our many blessings thank you for the ability to live in a country where we can be free. We praise you lord we praise you as the only god. Got of law of the god of mercy god of justice what we thank you for your son Jesus for dying on the cross and saving us from our sins. We ask that you leave to guide and direct us here as we do your work. Yes you be with us. I would lord we ask that you give us guidance over the coming days to know exactly exactly what you would have us do. Forgive us of our sins be with us throughout the day in Jesus name amen. I pledge allegiance to the Flag. One. All. Johnson. Sir John's gonna move to dispense the Journal okay. The House resolution number ten fifteen of twenty twenty one this of the ninety third General Assembly entered an extended recess on Wednesday April twenty eight twenty twenty one. President of the following proclamation president pro tem Speaker of the house representatives reconvene the regular session of the ninety third General Assembly on Wednesday September twenty nine twenty twenty one at ten AM to begin day one oh nine of legislative business. State of Arkansas Legislative department proclamation whereas house concurrent resolution ten fifteen of the regular session of the ninety third General Assembly provides for an extended recess of the ninety third General Assembly until such time the ninety third General Assembly is able to complete its work and congressional redistricting and four as the ninety third General Assembly entered into extended recess on April twenty eight twenty twenty one and whereas H. C. R. ten fifteen authorizes the Speaker of the house of representatives and the president pro tem of the Senate by joint proclamation to reconvene the General Assembly at any time and there for now therefore we the undersigned Speaker of the house of representatives and president pro tempore of the Senate hereby direct that the written regular session of the ninety third General Assembly of the State of Arkansas shall convene at ten AM Wednesday September twenty nine twenty twenty one and that during that time the General Assembly may conduct its business related only to the following as provided in HDR ten fifteen eight considering the tens be correcting errors and oversights C. completing its work on congressional redistricting day considering legislation related to the covered nineteen public health emergency and distribution of covered relates funds and considering the need for further extension of the regular session of the ninety third General Assembly and that the ninety third General Assembly shall adjourn sine die as soon as practicable after completion of its work on redistricting and witnessed that where of we have an to set our hands and caused the Great Seal of the State of Arkansas to be affixed to the state at the state capitol in Little Rock on this twenty ninth day of September your of the lord two thousand twenty one. Signed representative of Speaker of the house Matthew Shepherd Empresa pretende of the Senate Jimmy Hickey. I before recognizing want to recognize Senator Hendren for introduction of some of this year's Senator Hendren recognized president we've got a special group here today Joseph Mason with the Fulbright program it's got twenty international teachers from seventeen different countries they've been touring the capital they work the governor over the budget questions so many of up here in the gallery would you welcome them here to Arkansas. Senator Hickey wish to be recognized. Thank you Sir of members I would make a motion that we resolve recess to the committee of the whole. I thought objection. And if it's okay I'd like Senator Dismang just take care of things will be more appropriate if I speak from down here. So does my will take chaired a committee of the whole. Sir you're recognized thank you Sir members of the sorry for the wait noticed on this a committee of the whole actually I thought about this last night late. And I know there's been a lot of talk going on about the the bills that have been filed what we're supposed to do while we're an extended to recess. the thing is is I'm not saying going to say that we're in uncharted waters with an extended recess but we are in unfamiliar waters with an extended recess it has been done before there's actually there's actually a court cases that's gonna have some precedent that goes along with that miss Garrity is going to be here if any of you have any questions as we go through it. What I want to try to do you know instead of us just sitting down here trying to say well what are we going to do what we're trying to do this a business of a the redistricting with the maps because we've all seen that in itself is going to be monumental for us to get done so I don't want everybody to just be talking about what we going to do what's going to come I just want to get it out in the open if you think that you've got any questions or any issues. Borstal let's let's hear what they are let's work through this and if the and if I can gauge what the majority is I'll try to make a motion to that effect because we cannot vote in the committee of the whole so that will operate that way so that's why this body supposed to operate I ask that we stay cordial. Also ask if you come down and speak on something don't speak on what your resolution may be or what your bill may be this is just about the operations and whether or not we should be hearing something House somebody consider something to be to be germane so I think the best thing for me to do and I'm I had staff to put it on your desk everyone of you should have a. The resolution. Which is H. the R. ten fifteen which this the Speaker and myself ran during the last or before we adjourned Friday extended recess. So I think I will give you a little bit of background about how this how this come up come and play there was actually two things of course that was on here that are are of significance one was the congressional redistricting the reason that the Speaker now on that part had decided that we wanted to stay and and try to go into an extended recess is because we wanted to maintain the legislatures. Independence we know that the executive branch is supposed to do the the redistricting it they'd the so what we did not want to happen is for this redistricting the congressional redistricting at the one that we're supposed to do that we would have to wait for the executive branch to call us back in so that was a reason for that and that actually fits in perfectly with what our bureau had actually study looked into analyzed of why we could stay in in the in this extended recess. Because what that is is that is an item that we were supposed to do. But for whatever reason we were not able to do it and as I told everybody time and time again it's actually a perfect example. Bacall's were constitutionally required to do that but the for because of covid the federal government had not give us that census data yet so that is perfect for what that was now the next item I personally ask for that to be put on there. What that the next item was as it relates to a covid in the funding and if you read the resolution it mentions the American rescue act if you all remember remember whenever we were installed in session the federal government had just come out and said that these funds were going to be available to the states and of course I think everybody here is going to say that the state of Arkansas was going to take their billions of dollars in those funds what did not happened at that point is the US treasury and they were saying this that they were not. They have not given us any guidance on what might be required on what other statutes of we might have to do I did go ahead even file an appropriation bill without an appropriation bill to try to you know have we get there. Whenever we go into the special session we're probably going to have to increase that because we didn't know so but we did not know all the specifics of what was going to be required so in my conversations with the bureau you know I said look. We know that we're supposed to get these funds. But we don't know what we're supposed to do do we think that that would fall in. With what we can do with an extended recess. And we all thought that that was prudent and that that's the way that it should happen. Now where we're at today with some of these bills that have been filed. There's some of them of course that. Personally I don't think there germane Germaine to this at all and that's why I want us to go over go over this there possibly could be one that could be and whatever I say could be I want to remind you all of the court case that was out there. A court case that was and I again I'd rather of Marty in them to discuss that further but the court case that was there had to deal with unfinished business. What they have said is that what we take up is supposed to be unfinished business like I just told you about such as the congressional redistricting so whether or not that if we pass any of these bills that are filed and I'm not talking about congressional maps we're going to that's okay. These other bills which is. It's it's a high likelihood it's almost guaranteed that it's going to get challenged because we all know how controversy and controversial these this COVID has become so it's probably it probably will be challenged and the decision before you today is not whether or not you agree with what's in there whether you don't agree with what's in there whether you agree with something that the federal government's doing or what or whether you don't it is whether or not from a business decision. That you all need to look at and that's what we're in a Committee of hole that you're like board members and this is a business do we want to go forward with these other things. With all the obstacles that we know what they are out there. That is your decision as a majority and I just want you to know everything that is is in there I would like its okay to allow miss Garrity to come forward and just kind of speak to the court case and you all can ask her any questions that's okay. As for leave. I am you're recognized. To introduce myself yes ma'am okay Sir Marty Garrity Director of the bureau of legislative Research Senator Hickey asked me to just provide a general summary of the Case law that's on extended sessions and the powers of the General Assembly during those extended sessions the biggest case that we have relied upon as well as be review review review here and in this case the General Assembly back in nineteen eighty they passed a resolution extending the regular session until January one of nineteen eighty one so the seventy nine in nineteen seventy nine the General Assembly passed a resolution extending their session pretty much until the next regular session. During that time they took up the call went ahead and entered after several months into an extended session they met and they took up three constitutional amendments one of the constitutional amendments was holdover business or what the court considered unfinished business and that was a property tax constitutional amendment there were two new constitutional amendments that were proposed during that extended session. So the court held various things as part of that case so it held that the General Assembly cannot recess for an indefinite period of time there needs to be a set period of time and the reason is that in doing so it tramples upon other provisions of the constitution primarily the authority of the governor to call the General Assembly into a special session so if you all were able to extend your regular session for two years or even a year it would travel upon the governor's authority to call that special session. it says that to the court held that the the General Assembly can reserve the power to call itself into a regular session to an extended session but not for any purpose and not for any period of time it needs to be limited into time and the purpose again towards unfinished business. And it finally again it can read eat reconvene to take up its original an unfinished business. So. The decision was three it with that one constitutional amendment that was upheld as unfinished business because it was introduced during the original regular session it was a three three vote and one judge voted with the majority to determine that that unfinished business constitutional amendment could be considered and was valid there were three judges the in the minority opinion that said all of the business taken up during that unlawful extended session should have been held unconstitutional and not valid that's the decision of the Welsby revere case and I'd be more than happy to take any questions on that. Thank you members of members at first I think if we can just make sure there's any questions on process of what we're going to discuss here in fact we're not going to you know litigate to bills today but we're going to just talk about process and if there's any questions on that let's take those real quick and then we'll get into questions about the the court case and kind of where we are should we have any questions on process because if you get off track and you go down the road of you know pull out presenting your bills you're not gonna be recognized that that's understood with that I think Senator Hendren you Rick you're recognized we're just doing questions at this point. Yeah thank you Mr chairman so I don't know whether you wanna answer this or Senator Hickey but I know that a lot of the. Decision about what we can or cannot do is based on the resolution that Senator Hickey and and Speaker Shepherd. Explained to the well and we voted on in the well and then I think also explained as we adjourned what was the intent of that which was as Senator Hickey said to deal with the unfinished business of redistricting which could not be finished and again a perfect example Senator Hickey said of an appropriate extension because of the inability to do it but the other thing was and I think this is where there's the debate and contention about the emergency relief funds in the access to those and I I guess what I would say is at least the way I recall it being presented to this body was that this was about one thing and that was the ability to deal with federal funds that we had not had those procedures aligned with. Is that an accurate representation of how that was presented to this body and adopted I would leave that up to Senator Hickey to answer. I'd actually have to go back in the look at the live streaming as far as the way that I'd project had done it down here is just you know said what it was we didn't go into any specifics I think in the house the Speaker actually did did say that it was tied back to the funding so in his testimony with the house that will become an issue if something comes up but haven't we read I mean I say I think he did make some comments at the end of the session I know I've seen media reports that that was the intent was it was regarding the. Yes if the outlet stores when I was standing in the well yes I mean. Multiple members I believe in this chamber whatever they're asking me about it everybody knew that this was related to to that end yes I've been quoted in the the media multiple multiple times I mean that was the intent that that goes without saying and I will never very from that thank you yes and then one one more question for director Garrity I guess. You know with regard to extended recess as we look at what issues we can consider I know some of the legislation it is has been filed for consideration during this X. X. whatever we call it reconvening has been similar legislation debated during the regular session some of the defeated in some of it on the other end I mean does that not make it clear that this is not unfinished business this is new business or business that we've already rehashed. Senator I I think with regards to that that's gonna have to be a decision made you know here in the Senate and the house and then ultimately with the courts of whether something is unfinished business or not they would look at whether Bills similar to or exactly like were discussed during the regular session thank you. Senator Elliot you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr this is for Senator Hickey Senator Hickey. In the event that we do and other issues to the agenda with the anticipation be that we would go through the regular procedure of notice to the public and all right allow for these hurry up let's meet twice a day and so forth kind of process that's I I because I know that for anybody sitting out there listening and for me to I'd like to know if we add something what does that mean for the length of time you're going to be here. I do have a motion in my pocket is going to come up after we after we go back again to ask you all to as we normally would to suspend the suspend the rules so that we can hear those items on the same same day so I do have that motion in my pocket because I mean if ever everybody hear me no we hope we're hopeful you know that we're going to get out here in three days you know I call centre Hammer the other day not joking and said you know at least from my standpoint and if the majority of you want to do that I will miss the state I ask him that to be prepared that it even have a little service here at the eight o'clock Sunday morning if we still needed to be here so that we can go straight into business so uh from mass from my standpoint it's getting late it's getting late in the process no fault of a this General Assembly it's just the way that the census data come in we need to need to get through it so yes ma'am I would say that it would be one of those things that we would just be here in the room and and and rolling if that's what the majority this body wants to. I thank you yes ma'am art Senator Pitsch and then we'll get Tucker Clarke. This is probably for Mrs Garrity it's it goes to process we're sitting here at this time and we seen. A spectrum of bills but at some level I think I heard you and I know I heard Senator Hickey say that this will probably be adjudicated is going to that branch of government. Is there any way to get a ruling almost in the park Attorney General or someone's opinion that we are or we are not. Going in violation of what the citizens of Arkansas allowed us to do which is made I the reality of it is we're getting ready to do things was already kind of been notified. This going to be a bad legal situation and is there's no way to get an opinion or anything along that line I I don't I can't speak for the attorney general's office but they may offer an opinion on the validity of of legislation but the courts would not I I do not give opinions in advance on a legal issue that might be before them. I mean we do things all the time to get in a court of law and get that we get several bills that are there from all this current session now that were reconvened I guess I just if we don't want to waste taxpayer money a lawsuit the time we're down here if in fact we have a very good constitution that says we can't be doing this this and this and I'd like an opinion I guess from you or whoever where we're headed. I'm sorry I didn't understand your question here your question well I guess I think if I'm hearing things right you're asking her to provide a legal opinion and they're not provide yeah maybe not even a legal opinion I mean I think I heard your opinion we're going to a court of law. I think there are There's a case and you know it talks it it sets out certain parameters for having an extended session. I think that you know any person can argue any side and if there's legislation that you know someone doesn't like there is an Avenue for a lawsuit again I don't know what the outcome. It's not necessarily clear cut on what the answer is. I thank you all right a nexus Tucker Clarke hammer Ballinger Rapert Irvin so and then. All right so thank you thank you share this questions for miss Garrity. Before we came in this morning I was personally analyzing this from the standpoint of whether the bills that have been filed that I've seen are germane to the language in the resolution one thank I'm hearing from you on what I'm learning this morning is there is a really a separate analysis from that as well which is whether the items constitute unfinished business from the regular session my understanding that correctly yet the courts of. Really looked at the unfinished business component of the extended sessions and I know that when we work with the leadership I'm dropping this language we wanted to make it as tight as possible I do have a memo from the previous director who also talks kind about the uncertainty of having the extended session in the validity of it and documented several points of you know if there is an extended session these are kind of the the the issues that should be considered only okay and so not to throw a hypothetical at you but if the resolution had said the General Assembly can take up whatever it wants that would be a problem from a constitutional perspective that the court outlined in that case you cited as is that I think there would be some significant concerns with that just based on the wells case okay that the General Assembly can't meet at any time for any reason. Thank you. Senator Hammer you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr the question is going to be on the content of the resolution acceptable okay. Listening to listening to the discussion that is focused around. The intent was to come back in to take up matters related to redistricting why would the resolution that include the line that says consider legislation related to the COVID nineteen public health emergency and distribution COVID nineteen relief funds I'm trying to understand the connection between why that would be been a clue because there is no federal funding that would be associated with the redistricting maps so why why would that not create the opportunity to take up Bills your main using that statement. This are you asking if the redistricting needs to be tied into the rescue plan funds well. The conversation I hear is this is all about the reason why for back years redistricting but the way the resolution is written it leaves open the door to take up matters that would deal with the COVID nineteen funding I'm trying make the connection between if the intent is to be down here for redistricting why was it even written into the resolution that we would even take up anything related to those funding that I'm trying to connect those dots Senator Hammer if you look at page to begin on page two going starting on lines twenty five through the next Page three line three IT talk that's where it talks about the code public health emergency and specifically on line thirty five the whereas language with talks about the United States treasury is tasked with promulgated rules under the American rescue plan act and that this could provide the state's guidance on the how how the funds are distributed under these acts and those regulations are not expected to be available in till after the General Assembly recesses on April thirtieth twenty twenty one so that would be the unfinished business with regards to those rescue plan funds followed Mr okay. Then on the basis that we have created the opportunity for the door remained open because of the uncertainty of what would happen why would that preclude any bills that could be tied in to the resolution from being heard and how would that affect us in court. I don't know I don't think I'm I'm saying that. We we have a written into the resolution. That we anticipated the possibility that we would have to take up matters related to the COVID funding. So why would that not allow us to deal with legislation that would be directly tied to that funding. Aye aye made possible by this resolution. May I. Yes but do you want thank you yes yes senator Hammer and I believe of course the redistricting is an item by itself and this was the second one this is this was in my statement whatever I first started that the intent was is that we were going to take those funds. Whenever you look at this resolution in its entirety what the miscarriages doing issues she's going back and saying that the roof American rescue plan that that was the item that was that we were looking to get the funds from but that we're waiting on page two on line thirty five and thirty six at the treasury was the one that was tasked with that and as I said in my statement that was the part where I was saying that it was unfinished business as far as just getting that money itself. Because from my standpoint at that time they had said we were going to going to get the money the states we're going to get that money but they had not provided that guidance in that that guidance was to be provided by the treasury in the treasury of courses out there of making that statement that they didn't have what what was going to be required for us to get on so that that is why that that is in there because it was relating to just getting the funds themselves. Is there any bearing that the state of emergency in Arkansas has expired because. The letter did not get turned in Dale city in time so is there what is there a relevancy to that as it pertains to this resolution. From my standpoint you know I heard about that two days ago was the first time that I had heard about it whether or not there's some intent with that I think there is a possibility that there could be but that's not the it's not anything that I'm involved in or anything else so you know I'm not gonna sit down here and say that that that that thought process hasn't occurred out there with everything that's taken place our thank you thank you Sir Clark Senator Clark you're recognized for a question thank you Mr of this question is for both of you and the. You know no matter. I know myself we have. Carefully crafted legislation of several times got into a Committee and other places and it is been pointed out that our language did things that we didn't intend for to. Of and also one person's intent is not necessarily another person's intent and I would point out to both of you ACT seven forty six of two thousand thirteen of open carry of which was referred to as travel. But there were a number of us including me who knew exactly what the bill does And then there was a number of people who did not know what the bill does including the governor of the state police who would oppose it and not signed up but what it came down to was the language of the bill what the language actually bill was no criminal intent which we knew was in there they messed up and so when I voted on the bill I voted on the language not a Senator Hickey is intent. That was mine too so does that not will that not come down it won its of when it comes down to a court cases the legislature's intent not to Senator Hickey isn't. First just just one thing that I would say as far as the legislation that we got to talking about in your right somebody on the attend part I think the the way that you have to look at this and differentiate between it is that what you're talking about of course is just just a bill and I know you know you're going to say this is a resolution but I think you have to take this in the context that this was what was actually allowing allowing for the extended recess itself so this this went further. And that was the intent of what we were doing and again we tried to craft that within whenever you look at the entire document but I'm saying Mr protium that must and ten in your intent may have been two different things yes Sir I care enough thank you Sir in effect can just get clarification on a Senate going to keep raise your hand but I got about four five people in front of you and and and and and so I'll get you just say yes Sir you've never knowledge meaning knowledge everybody else will make sure okay. Are it is a director Garrity time understanding his question intent and that sort of thing you know the summary you know of what the intent is but inside the resolution itself it goes into greater detail about that intent we're specifically talks about needing to implement rules or whatever related to our father or you know that type of thing is that. I mean that thing and I don't want to work you may but I think what you're saying is that for we spelled out intent for what that summary is that most of us that's the only thing that we read if we're going to be real honest with ourselves I think Senator Clark is right that the courts will look at the document itself primarily to look at the intent of the legislature you know testimony here you know testimony committees will be used by the attorneys on both sides to argue one way or the other. I am not Senator Ballinger you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr in actual that answered the first for my question second part my question is courts typically when it comes to legislative matters will give broad deference to the legislature in determine something so so we're trying to determine what the intent was of that that resolution there. Do you know they'll look at this though look at how the way we act and they'll typically give us difference because of the as being a separate co equal branch of government is that correct. I can't answer that definitively I mean they do give deference. But they'll look at the document itself okay thank you. All right and then send a wrecker you're recognized for a question yes. Morning. I recall when we had the discussions about whether we can have an extended special session or not in the first place there is a bit the review meeting called I know that leadership was on the meeting some of us were in the meeting as well. And I don't recall that there was a problem at that point because if I'm not mistaken didn't you all lay out the reasons why we can't even do the extended special session is that correct. Yes so what we what we talked about was again a limited time having you sure that you know and I think the language of the resolution talks about you know as soon as practicable at you know after the census data comes in so at extended session maybe in March of next year time it to specific reasons and we looked at wells that's I mean we really took from wells the language in the resolution so the unfinished business of redistricting the code funds the code public emergency all tied in together and then the normal language that we have in there which is the vetoes and the correction of errors. In in also do you recall when the when the resolution was put together than we even put this together and voted on in the first place I don't recall any objections. To the resolution that is before us this brought us back today do you recall any objections being made at that time Sir I I don't know that I was watching so I I can't speak to that I mean center but is far as the different aspects of it Senator Hickey you're welcome you're. No Sir no Sir I'm not from my standpoint of course I was presenting it the way that I've presented here today. As far as the intent so I don't believe it and again we got that on film so we can we can check back to make a hundred percent sure but I I remember nobody even have any questions on insurance in so we're we find ourselves at today. Since there was no objection there was no argument at the time that the decision was made to put forth resolution which allowed us to even come back at this point I'm close a little bit. About all the consternation on handling business this clearly described in the resolution when there was an objection made to it in the first place well. In my opinion you would have to look at the session as a whole because miss Garrity said. You know who are maybe she didn't say but what we were in session so I believe that everybody for a although I heard what senator Clark said about his intent I believe that the majority of the people who took this at face value of what it actually was that it was for redistricting and that we were going to come back to the American rescue funds we all know that some of these other items that are out there there was legislation that was already in place that was being ran in the trying to be passed you know throughout the session so that business I think was actually already in those other bills. So I don't I think that's why there wasn't you know any objection to this. Well I guess I would say just to make it's a good point to say it I guess that is now it's white people make a point if questions great points not right now we're trying to avoid that. Part of the part of the deal so you're gonna lead into a question that's fine but let's just. There's gonna be plenty of time to come up I think in and have a discussion about your intent and that sort of thing we'll can I finish my thought noon with the question Mr. I think you said it was a good time to make a point so that's the reason I was well maybe I missed stated that sorry about that in terms of of the resolution again the clear language of the resolution if there is a bill that clearly speaks in aspects of this listed in the resolution why would that not be germane. From my from my standpoint again. If it was drafted just the way that a I can't I keep saying is that it was specifically for acquiring those one point six billion dollars or however much it was in those rescue funds that we didn't know if there is going to be statutes other types of appropriations as I stated. We did do one appropriation you know to try to get there is not enough to not enough to cover it all so we're gonna have to deal with that at some point so like I think that's a. I think what I'm saying is is it. I have no doubts that that that is away with what everybody should have been intended for this whenever there reading it and as you said there was any objections so I believe that's what it is thank you thank you thank you and members just real quick when we're in here minutes being recorded let's not use first names because I think that's going to get confusing issues title so they can show a little bit more respect another sent a big deal to you but but what I think it you know for what we're doing here I think we need to utilize titles at next that Senator Irvin you're recognized. Thank you Director Gerrity and. So it's your testimony that H. C. R. ten fifteen. This was drafted based on the Wells verses revere case yes that language was drafted based on that case in that case it states that there's that there's a line that state. And there is no doubt that the General Assembly sees its duty in these modern times is required to be available at all times to handle the business of the state but that belief cannot be realized by circumvention of the Arkansas eighteen seventy four constitution and so they found that it would be unconstitutional and violate the Arkansas constitution to take up matters that were not germane apartments to. what was in an extended session as unfinished business by correctly in the wells to be read Rivera case I don't think there was a resolution that set out what they could meet on when they came back and I think it was the from what I understand it was just an open ended we're extending until you know December of twenty twenty one or whatever So. Based on the wells we revere case you know they wanted again a definite period of time and for definite reasons otherwise you start looking at violating the constitution and is serving the governor's authority to call special sessions so I'm looking at the language of this which is defined as the funding which is also part of this that you can go back in for appropriation but that you can't just open up an open ended book to determine or to consider anything you want to consider it has to be tied to certain things and some of those and those things are clearly outlined in this case. So you all know the bureau we're always going to err on the side of caution. You know we're not going to go out there and say something unless we're certain we knew what the redistricting but there was you know that was a valid reason the funding again that the arpa funds and and the covered public emergency if there are for example is a bill that's outside of what stated in the resolution I would have I think there would be a legal argument for challenging that legislation. Okay and then last question if I may when you wrote in proclamation. Considering vetoes correcting errors and oversights that's because that is also part of what this court case said was authorized is that correct is it a court case didn't say it's authorized but again it could be unfinished business so the General Assembly recesses the governor may take may be Taiyo a bill the general said that would be unfinished business allowing the General Assembly to come back in and override the veto if there's an error correction that the Clerk or the secretary of the Senate realizes after y'all have gone home that would allow the General Assembly to come back in and correct that error as unfinished business so those those are the clear very clear criteria and clearer definitions of what consists of unfinished business. I don't know that there is clear criteria but the reasoning has to be there for for that okay the declaration thank you. Thank you senator garner a thank you have a question for director Garrity and Senator Hickey for Garrity in the case that we're siding what was the final decision holds the breakdown of it the decision was that the two resolutions mountain what will the final judge with a four three decision it was a four three decision can you summarize the sense opinion on both in cases. Pardon me can you summarize the dissents opinions in that case. Well as we put this waste yes in both the Senate does not say in essence that the legislators a separate and co equal branch of government has powers are separate from the judicial branch and that we act within that power within our constitution that it isn't even the preview of the court itself to interject and whether we have a session or not or the constitutionality of those decisions we make as a separate co equal branch of government is that a good summary of what both those assent said Senator I'd have to re read it again I'm I'm I I didn't tell that foreign okay thank you ma'am Senator Hickey if I may. Yes Sir I think that was extremely close close decision in nineteen eighty that you're relying I think we have a brand new court now and I think I agree with the descendants of right time to have this discussion the court in the Senate basically said that we are a separate and co equal branch of government and that the legislator that the judicial system itself cannot make a determination on if we are in session not we alone have that power we should exercise it as needed so you as a leader of one of the two branches of the General Assembly should we exercise that power as a separate and co equal branch of government and determine what we have business done before's instead of being. Shackled by potential court case that could come and if we do act in that capacity similar to how the executive branch has taken multiple steps during a pandemic to stretch its power as far as possible similar to how to judicial branch have changed multiple procedural issues where played on the constitution shouldn't we as a legislator branch flexing use that power entrusted us in that constitution by the people of Arkansas to pass. If legislation that is important dealing with the COVID nineteen pandemic. Well I think everybody here knows that I ran for this office and you all put me here based upon that up I wanted the legislature to require what I thought some of its power had had went by the wayside and so also in my opening statement I said that one of the reasons that myself and the Speaker on on the item number one. Is that we wanted to maintain that independence on that on the congressional redistricting so I'd have to say yes partly to what you say but I'd also have to say this. The truth is what I've stated the truth is is whatever this resolution was written and the way it's written whatever you take it is in its entirety with the were as is the American rescue funds. What is been said over and over again that was the intent of it now I understand somebody wants to try to manipulate the words of it or twist and turn it but you know me as a means a man with you know the character of what I meant that's what I've said here today so I think that also has to be taken into account although that that dialogue there about the constituents of the state of Arkansas at all that I mean that may sound real shiny and I'm apologize I'm not real shiny but one thing I do is I do have character and that was what the resolution which has my name on it was meant to be. May I respond very briefly I'm not question your character Senator Hickey I'm questioned the black letter written resolution that specifically says COVID nineteen emergency we're going to be a legislative branch to write laws we should be bound by what it says not by intent not these other factors I think a clear reading of that allows us to your other resolutions and bills thank you Sir I disagree I think the readings either way thank you Sir. Hi again members let's try to keep it out of comments to keep it on questions of of that's where we were going to Garner question Sir Clark Johnson you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman. Of. I'm I'm I'm not quite sure exactly where to place this question I'm going to start with director Garrity it may be a question for Mr cook We're here to right this moment correct me if I'm wrong was chairman to discuss process and how we get through this and as I see the process of we could just be here till midnight tonight second guess what some judges goodness I mean I I won't go into all the what ifs but I think you everybody understands that but. The regular order would be. That a bill introduced is deemed to be germane until such time that the chairman committee or chairman or the or the presiding officers Senate rules that it's not germane. And at that point in time someone could any member could appeal the ruling of the chair. At that time and again I think I got my numbers right Mister eighteen votes would decide whether the chair's ruling was upheld or overturned now. I have I think I respect Senator Hickey I know what he said this is what I meant by this that's what he meant by that question online and is senator Clark pointed out the words mean things and once they're printed in total five then you know my thoughts than your thoughts. Don't matter it's all matter what's in the law but procedurally. Would it not be. Regular order that we would proceed and under it I guess a rebuttable presumption that any legislation brought forth Is Your mine of the it was clearly. Way outside the bounds of this resolution then the presiding officer of make a proper ruling that was again whether it's in the committee or in the on the floor that the legislation is just not germane to the call if it were clear I think the body would rule okay you know presiding officer Mr chairman lieutenant governor you're you're really gets corrected we agree with that but ultimately the arbiter under our current rules is. The Senate body the full body now am I missing something or is there some changes to that that maybe we need to discuss I again I've I'll start with the letters the and and I think he needs to weigh in two I just to me that seems to keep us back on process I've got a deferred to either Stever Senator Hickey on on the process within the Senate in your in your bills here. Okay. You're recognized. Sir John what you said is correct Process is we're going to get a stack of bills your. With numbers and when I read the first second time. the presiding officer use use or the chair's gone assigned to a Committee. it's gonna be present germane to the call. Now any member when that bill is referred. Can make a motion to the chair presiding officer that that bill is not germane to the H. C. R. ten fifteen. And the presiding officer is going to issue. A ruling that it is germane or is not true. If the road it is germane. You're anybody else on this floor can be recognized for a motion to appeal the ruling of the chair. The body. That motion. Then call the vote if eighteen people out here the side. That is that the chair of the ruling of the chair is correct then it is Germany and that's the bottom line and that we proceed. The Bill. Senate house and they may have a different feeling about that issue but but the Senate has it has decided that bill is to make the call like any other bill so you are correct in your process well and if I could follow up Mr chairman and my only question beyond that is. What we do and what happens after that point and under resumption of the House followed suit with us and said yes it is in your mind whether it's with the speaker's ruling or by an appeal of his his ruling that was overturned that the house and Senate passed the bill the governor signs it or he doesn't sign it but it becomes law then we're done then the courts can come in and do the things that have been discussed previously here and we may lose we may win but will never be here again I'm not trying to quote a song but is that correct I think that's exactly right if if what we do here is not to Ballin the eyes of the Arkansas taxpayer he has the right to file a lawsuit to invalidate the action of the General Assembly. Side the coat Court will ultimately side as they did in Wales the revere in nineteen eighty what was done in seventy nine. This was beyond what the legislature could do it but regardless I assume we would then see some clarity to the limits or. Expansion of the legislative power that's correct thank you Sir thank you Mr chairman. Senator Ingram you're recognized for a question. That question senator flowers had a question but that question had been previously asking to answer thank you thank you. A researcher back Senator Clark you're recognized for quick if you don't mind Sir Clark your Sturch has been recognized yet I'm gonna go through folks that I've added C. I'm sorry Senator Sturch you're recognized. You Mr this question be for director Garrity. Right to get a I was sure that I heard you correctly when you're going over the history of the wels case he said that the legislature of nineteen seventy nine when they did reconvene they had three constitutional amendments that they were considering one was the property tax and that was previously introduced two more came up with those two more than struck down as not being valid or during that reconvening whatever bills or whatever things were introduced were they considered valid or not valid. They consider those constitutional amendments that were newly introduced during that extended session invalid okay so anything new then that came up and that reconvening was there any bills that were introduced or just those constitutional amendments I believe. I need to look real quick I know that the only item that they have held was the constitutional amendment that was introduced during the regular session the original regular session that answers your questions Senator thank you Mr thank you senator Chesterfield. Thank you Mr chair and a this is. For either Senator Hickey or director Gary I just wanna refresh my own memories it says whereas the United States treasury secretary is tasked with promulgating rules under the American rescue plan of twenty twenty one that would provide guidance on how the funds distributed under the act may be spent and those regulations are not expected to be available until after the General Assembly recesses on April thirty twenty twenty one are those rules ready now. Yes they've submitted their the rules. Senator Hickey what those rules that you wish for this body to consider. No ma'am. Promulgate hours based predicated on those what what I was going to make sure of is it those guidelines are now in place that there was not some statute that we need to pass so that we could acquire the funds because we didn't know what they were going to say at that time as we know now we are acquiring those funds the FNA is requesting those that the steering committee in here so those funds are coming in so that that it's been satisfied from my standpoint nine nine germane to the callers for you. In my opinion yes ma'am thank you. All right and then I've got Senator Clark Is Senator Ballinger is anybody have a question hasn't had a chance to ask questions. And with that Sir Clark you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr. Senator Hickey I don't think it will surprise anybody that the medics actually of what you said about the intent of the resolution I don't think it will surprise anybody the time that I fully intended when I voted to come back and handle anything that had to do with with That we needed to take care of. That being said. This will this on the record. I thank you under stand having the member of this body as long as I have. That we objected to everything said from the well that we do completely agree with we would never get out of. Thanks the the spoken in behalf of our own bills right. So by saying something and I was not objecting to it doesn't mean that we necessarily agree with. The question Sir that's a question. I did so you're you're correct. Right Senator Ballinger recognized for a question. My question and answer thank you Senator Hendren recognized for a question. Yeah thank you Mr chairman and I guess this is a I don't know whether Senator Hickey you're recognized me but I guess what I want would like to know is we spend a lot of time talking about the intent of the resolution versus the black or white words of the resolution but at the end of the day we can't pass a resolution that is contrary to the constitution correct. I know that we should. We should okay I would I would agree because we've proven we can we can do it so whether or not your intent was for that the way that was awarded with the and rescue funds to include anything related to code it is not as important as whether or not the constitution gives the General Assembly to go into extended recess and consider something that it considers that it thinks it may want to address at a later date for whatever reason because again this is the code issue is not like. Issue we could not be redistricting no way no how because we had no data. COVID we spent three months address. So certainly they follow the different categories and the the important thing is whether or not. It is unfinished business under the way the constitution and the courts have interpreted more than. What we heard from you or what we read in the resolution would you agree. I would and what you said the the key in my opinion to and I think the from our legal Slagle staff the unfinished business is the key to this so it's a. If it if it's something again that we were required to do are we supposed to do and couldn't take it up that's going to be key. All right thank you do we have any other questions. All right see none I think at this point we're gonna move to your questions phase. Is what I'm saying and so if you if you've got something you'd like to say you know on the matter when we were headed as far as you know the legalities back for whatever it may be just make yourself you know available as well and then just come on down and then be available for questions I guess if you've got some points members what questions about so the the if you'd like to make a statement or make some points. Kick things off Senator Ballinger. Thank you I'll keep this short there's no reason to practice on but essentially it I would be shocked if the court doesn't start with the language of the resolution in determining what's unfinished business because I don't have to guess they don't have to look at discussion from the well they don't have to do that thank you look at what the resolution we say we want to come back from Finnish business and this is our unfinished business that's what we say and if you if you look at it you read it you know considering vetoes correcting errors oversights completing it's work in progress so districts and that is is considering legislation related COVID nineteen and health merges the and distribution of code ninety really funds. Semicolon then considering the need for further exited out so you know that that the truth is I you know I think that there is no question that some of the bills now like we can we can they'll be some discussion like each bill we have the ability to decide whether strain or not but some of the bills that we're not we're going to talk about outside redistricting it's just black and white. It is your name. And so I just think that you know when we look at it I think the real question is is really it's going to be about whether or not it fits into the resolution the what are in that's consistent with with previous presidents in fact. We've talked to the AG's office they say they'll have no trouble defending some of the bills as consistent with the resolution as constitutional so in the end I really feel like you know that I appreciate the discussion we should all be well well where this makes us better people for knowing knowing more but ultimately it's going to be a choice of whether or not this body believes this is germane or not thank you. Health. Yes I think Senator Rapert lessons around take the question okay okay. You're recognized. I just got a question on what what you just alluded to when you mention the one two three four five five reasons yeah on we're back here looking at this with the statement that was made earlier by by Senator Senator Hickey says a. Considering legislation related to the code nineteen public health emergency yeah that not expired twenty four forty eight hours ago that we were discussing earlier you know we're still in the Federal Emergency so we're still in a state that would expire correct yeah last night late last night the governor into the the the card Arkansas state emergency but we're still under federal state emerging okay but are we here with a state issue or a federally I'm yes both but you were passing state law so thank but there is still a good health there's still emergency so Senate foreign you're recognized for questions Senator Ballinger have thank you Sir Senator Ballinger so we base our legislative action or any kind of executive order anything about the governor's separate we can branch of government we tell the governor that the state is my honor will stay in our yeah I mean honestly it it really is pretty shocking to me how so often we we don't want things to be messy so we pull ourselves constrained ourself and rather than deal with things that our constituents are all nervous about you know from my standpoint I don't understand why we do that like as a legislator like one of our jobs is legislative body is to try to protect the authority that were given not because of there's not anything good about us I mean I like you guys but frankly it's not about you it's not about me it's about the people we represent and then having a voice in the process and more we can train ourselves less those people get voice the process so I really think it's I mean it it seems counterproductive to to try to interpret the steps as narrow as possible to make us do as little as possible for the people we represent. Thank you senator you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chairman so Senator Ballenger you're you're relying on the resolution we haven't talked about the constitutional requirement continue to come back to the resolution as I said earlier I think the ultimate test is we can't write a resolution that's contrary to how the courts have interpreted the constitution do you agree that is and that's why we resolution is that we can write it and we can even pass it but it's not a condition you may be of superior legal mind that and then the Bill R. and Marty and the the attorney general's office and and all the other people said we drafted this resolution consistent with with Arkansas case law Arkansas constitution I'm going to allow this resolution and all the other individuals who set it is consistent with it as being consistent with that and not interpreted as narrow as possible stop us from doing work yeah I I certainly don't claim to be superior in any legal mind to to very many people at all but let me just ask this. Would you agree though that we can for instance could we put in this resolution that or to continue to address tax relief based on economic indicators that may dictate such relief is warranted. if we would have put that in the resolution. Talk about parking would put that in the resolution would would you be okay with us coming down here to have a tax cut bills yes we put in the resolution so in other words you're saying that the General Assembly has the authority to do exactly what the court said they don't have the authority to nineteen eighty to to write a resolution that says they can come back for any reason basically that they put in the resolution correct so so what I would not have advise the the Bill are to do even though I don't know that this court with with all the same president is to is to draft is now open resolutions they will come back whenever I think that like the smart move which would be our or did is they put time constraints and they put limitations on what we can here when we come back and so if we would have put tax cuts on the on the the right we could have come back in and dealt with tax cuts whatever we decide it was unfinished business I think tax cuts would have been a great thing now in hindsight great thing to put on because there's a lot information we didn't have we do we want to cut taxes we should put it on there I think that would be good it would have been upheld as constitutional we didn't put it on there so you know we'll we'll be relied upon on the governor's call but from my standpoint it's pretty easy to to look at the plane the court is going to say what was unfinished business they told us what unfinished business was and is it consistent with that and that's all that's far as the consideration so again to be clear your position is that anytime the legislature decides to adjourn rather than what we've done for two hundred years and sine die for we can come back and address the toes and errors and omissions we can write a resolution as as we can come back anytime we want for anything we want no sprint well maybe you know it depends on what the square Concord reduce but I would recommend doing that because we have precedence that in nineteen eighty so we can what we have to do is say specifically will come back at some given time and with some given the given the thing that we're going to handle because this is what we're saying is unfinished business and that would be I mean it would be really hard for me to see how will courthouse state works within. for that as as outside of our purview as a separate co equal branch of government but it's completely contrary to the notion of a biennial session for sixty days extended up to ninety days that's been written in our constitution practice for two hundred years now let's not not not if it's done this way it's not and that's why bill or did this way that's why term Jones offices on the troubled thank you senator Clark you're recognized for a question. Yes all I wanna be sure that this is not confused Senator Hendren first question was about this being unconstitutional because of the court decision in nineteen eighty. Of and then specifically addressed tax cuts because the tax cuts and that was a gross as being unconstitutional but they did not address that in the resolution correct yeah they didn't actually I if I remember right in that case the tax cuts that were the tax on of those cuts to the the tax provision constitutional provision was actually the one with the appeal I don't know about the other two I think about member right but yeah so if they didn't have anything to your point they didn't have anything specific in the resolution saying what their unfinished business will support the court if I remember right and I haven't studied it that will is there a rule but part of what they did was constitutional because they had address doing that right and that part of what they did was not posted because they had not addressed rendering that is unfinished business yeah I think that I think the wisdom of providing to the courts say this is what's unfinished business it I think I think it was a such a good idea because it makes a where where the court doesn't have to start digging into it I was good move Bobby also appears on the resolution follows that court decision extremely well that's what I would say. All right thank you and members of I didn't get the chance to this bill from the chair it's okay I'd like to have a question for director Garrity back on the resolution and I think it pertains a lot to you what Senator Ballinger was alluding to but the sub record of mine my question is is in so when we pass a law you know lots of times there's contingency so it's no a and B. have to both be accomplished or be you know factors before you can get to see and so the way that I read the line related to if you just pretend like the remaining part of the road resolution doesn't exist the way that I read it is the first has to be related to the co the public health emergency and it has to be related to the distribution of COVID nineteen funds so both of those factors have to be prevalent four or exist before you would be committed to commit or considered germane to the extension is is is that a fair way to read that are I misinterpreted that so our convention of bill drafting is and means and that means both that doesn't mean or and we had discussions and I just I Senator Hickey if I could talk a little bit about this because there was also discussion of whether the proclamation to reconvene into this extended session could be limited only to redistricting. and did not take up all of the other issues so being consistent you know the and in the purpose is to bring back everybody for the extended session included the word a-ant so it had to be all of those things I didn't feel it was my opinion that the time for what it's worth that the pro tem could only call you back in to take up redistricting because endment all of those things so taking that same reasoning and applying it to the language in that provision of for COVID related purposes and the covert funding again it's both of those things it's not one or the other that's the general interpretation and then the bill drafting Mechanism that we use when we use the word and it means both the not for again it will be up for consideration by the court to determine at the end of the day they'll they'll be the ones to decide though. Thank you Senator Ballinger to get a quote you're good all right do we have any other questions related to that Senator Elliot you're recognized. Thank you of this guarantee when I look at the for example considering the need for further extension we're going on and we get to four we have two issues in this construction just like we do with the one with and to whom so. With the style that we use in the bureau and also just romantically. One of these things has to happen in each one of these things may happen we don't we're not going to do both those things in each because the clear choices here. We're going to consider the need for extensions or we're going to adjourn. That needs with what you're saying we have a choice here but when we go back to D. what we use and we don't get a choice we have to do both of those things have to be met. I'm not is that making sense that's how they get or rules rafting would be the and means both not an or and again in being inconsistent with you know the reason that Senator Hickey could call you back into this extended recess whether he could limit it to just taking up vetoes or just redistricting the end kind of info you know was that all of those things I'm further if I were to say to the two of the standing they are I need to see you and Senator Hickey and my. We don't get a choice about that I'm not saying I want to see one if you saw under D. I want to see you and I want to see Senator Hickey we're going to have to both those things. When I get to eat I don't need both of you I need to see either you or Senator Hickey is a meeting of that sentence that I that I think provide some clarity for something that seems like a technicality. But in reality it is not a technicality it is a somebody said before means what it says as a black letter that's on the page here. My name is that correct. I think the courts look at the words you know that that's our drafting wills at the end of the day as I said the court's going to have to decide what that and means well I would whether that's fine but I just you know in the in the world a meeting when you put stuff on paper and and or do not need the same thing I we have a clear delineation of that I think right here in T. and T.. That's it thank you. Our records then center stuff. The record for. There we go Mr thank you and and I'm sorry earlier a director Garrity we've become friends around here and I said Marty I apologize for that sentencing hearing about Arkansas we are trying to be friends of my question is especially related to the discussion here because we're trying to find process here and what is allowable what's not allowable based upon the construction division that we just had about Adam D. and having to take up to things if a member were to propose a bill it actually dealt with the code means the covid vaccine mandates and also distributing one thousand dollars each to all first responders and law enforcement officers out of relief funds that sounds to me like it would be germane is that not correct. I think a good argument could be made that that's germane thank S. can I add one more yes looking at unfinished business also so that the original purpose wasn't something taken up during the regular session right. And it out of I guess in the form of a book of a question I would say Is it not fair to say that there's a good number of members up here. That we dealt with the idea of handling mandates in preventing those mandates during the session that it would be easy to assume or to conclude that many of us would feel that that is on finish because it's not been fully concluded to our own satisfaction the center I can answer that question answered as I know it's out there thank you. Enter Stubblefield you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chairman Marty let me make sure I understand this correctly are you are you saying that the loss of tens of thousands of jobs by individuals whose either medical or religious exemptions are not being accepted at a time when we have. One of the largest labor shortages in the state because of covid are you saying the all those are not germane to the concert considering legislation related COVID nineteen public care center I'm not saying that at all and what I'm saying is that I don't have an opinion on the specific legislation and whether it applies to the resolution that's going to be a decision at the end of the day bye this body and ultimately by the courts yeah I think this members of indicate least that's my perspective we can disagree but I mean we've got a stack of bills here in front of us and what we're trying to do right now is have a conversation about what is you know so we all understand the background of the basis and everything else for determining our own opinion when these bills come up whether or not they need it they're going to be germane or other part of this resolution whatever that's all we're doing at this point in B. OR will not take a position on policy which is ultimately what that's going to be so we're trying to give you the background on the facts of where we are with this resolution says with the historic history says related court cases and then it's going to be up to each one of us to make that determination with a vote on whether or not we believe that some germane to the extension of the session. Did she cannot give an opinion on it this is. Germane I think Senator Hammer had a question. Thank you Mr I just need clarity on something I think we should have been a go is unfinished business. Mark the resolution. It is unfinished business party on resolutions at par the resolution it's part of the wells case and it's referenced in the resolution. I or. I thank her you say yes Is that yes it is part of the wels case so and then it's referenced in the resolution with regards to the redistricting in the code funds in terms of why the legislature couldn't take up those items by the time you're recessed okay and when it comes to the definition of unfinished business does that include bills that were filed but we're not heard because we adjourned. Prior to them going through the committee process would that meet the definition of unfinished business such or Senator Hickey. Whoever wants to answer Senator I I don't know the answer to that you know with the courts determine whether you know the General Assembly had the opportunity to take it up and it didn't and and let it die or would they say you know there was a reason why they couldn't take up that bill so I don't know the answer to it but I that would be probably the court's examination of the issue our thank you. All right members we have anybody else any other questions I don't I don't see any senator if you have anything you want to respond to. Just just one thing members I hope you take this for what it is Everybody in this room needed to know all aspects of this because this is not a regular session you know we all know that were coming back from the regular session is still the ninety third but it is an extended recess it's not a special session the rules are different within that there is a court case and we just have to take that we have to take it that all into consideration as we as we make these votes and it's something that I felt that this membership as a whole had to have the whole story with were read to be able to do that and I hope that you feel like this been done today thank you. All right thank you members of. With that. We've got. Yeah okay all right and if you're on the glass what you cannot lean on the glasses because it's glass so just the stay at this point that out so just just for your own well being. And so with that members I think Senator Hickey we going to conclude the committee the whole. We're we're finished with committee to hold that right. You other comments emails would come down. What. I move that Senator rise report progress I'll turn things back over to the gym together. This. Senate resolution thirty by senator garner to condemn president Joe Biden's for execution of the United States withdrawal from Afghanistan Senate resolution thirty state agencies. Thank. Have Steve. One second center. He. Yeah are you going to arrest. I. Not in the resolution. Yes this is. It serves recognized yes I have an objection to this and just to let somebody know any any bills other than rest of the read redistricting I would like to make a motion that the I'll check into those to hear the action for an opinion the check as to. What specifically Sir. What was your question again Sir here I'd ask an opinion of the chair as to your maintenance you're objecting because it's not in the. I'm I'm objecting to the Germaneness of it because it's not in the original resolution that we would that we would hear resin that type of resolution. You're seeking a ruling for the chair as to Germaneness yes Sir the resolution is not mentioned in resolutions are not mentioned in the resolution and the resolution before us I think is number. S. R. thirty is not germane. Or senator John. With that ruling if you were to remain consistent also prohibit any congratulatory resolutions memorial resolutions are such that would to be considered during this extended session or there was not an objection before the the presiding officer at this time so we'll really a case by case basis take a look at that when we get there we may even may even take a little break if we need to really take a look at it. Okay but I guess my question really is I don't anticipate an objection orders or but I don't know hypothetically I think I know which one you're talking about here. Well I held only my only question is that. While something may not be able to be considered it's a question of being introduced for example I have a simple resolution congratulating a Paralympian in my district with that which would normally normally Mister president go to the callous. With that be something that would I mean I'm not a waste my time. Thank you senator asked for as to resolutions generally and I gave up an opinion I any all can overrule what I say are you get down here talk about the people you love and not make a resolution there's a lot of options available to but resolutions I'm not a yeah I love justice Scalia so I read the text and words have meaning and resolutions are mention in their. Thank you Mr president. Senator Clark. As was put. Sure. I don't know what's in this report but. Hello do resolution part of our business or not VOL hello. The. Or how the affected by German. Let me say this state before you speak my ruling is internal to this body okay so what I'm supposed to do is figure out the rules of this body and you got lay those against in some cases from all in the constitution Dr and we may have that opportunity a little later today in this Garnish your Germaneness are only limited to the body's rules and so may we may have to reach out and look at other things such as of the revered case or statutory law or whatever to get a good sense I mean I ultimately could do it I want you all to do what you want you can override me with eighteen people whether have so does your question well no more questions removed or covered under okay well understand the care that. This morning I don't know what you or not and our discussion on the maintenance of the bill I understand yeah our discussion on the maintenance of revolutions I'm not sure I understand and so I would like to have that. Resolutions filed. Like a special session we have we have the governor's call. Cannot use. Historically. If the Senate wants to file a resolution. On any matter we have always allow the introduction of that resolution because it's not. It's not challenger Board it's it's the sense of the Senate at this moment in time a court does look at it is not appealable so therefore the Senate has always taken a posture we're going to allow a resolution usually they're they're they're not comparable to do the House historically is not allow that. I'm just in my years here we have always allow senators even if it's not on the call of the governor to allow a a resolution to be filed. And that's what is it again it's not challenge will be by a taxpayer is not challenge will is not. Or it's just a sense of the Senate. At this moment and let me let me well let me add one thing tomorrow ruling of caviar the resolutions that I would considering when he made that or the three I've got before. I can think of a resolution. That may come in one of the if there for example there was a resolution on redistricting you may get a different answer but. That's not what I have. If I may. Four four. Senate. But may provide care center the manager was words listen to always allow. Yes. What resolutions over here the House this law. Okay let me be clear Mr idle with resolutions or whether I walked him or not I just wanted yeah thank you well I'm also not commenting on what I like what I don't like Senator. Motion sensors motion. This president moved that the Senate. Except introduction of any Senate resolution during the remaining part of the extended session however not extend that same privilege to joint resolution or concurrent resolutions. You are you for the motion. Debatable requires a majority vote. The center has weeks. Resolutions during this session notwithstanding the fact correct me if I'm wrong notwithstanding the fact that is not mentioned in the resolution from the spring. Except. Four join. Resolutions Senate resolution basically honorary resolutions in the type of thing that I just ruled not germane you saying let's make an exception a majority vote will do that. Anyone anyone else. Sir Clark. So what resolutions that we about. If it is a Senate resolution only Senator Clark not a joint resolution or a concurrent resolution that requires any action by the other body or the governor it is says Mr could describe a sense of the Senate on one thank you yeah. All those in favor say aye opposed. Is have it resolutely the motion to carry. So. At the desk Senator this line. To a question on process going back to some of the comments by Senator Johnson earlier these items going to be get the read across the desk and then at some point we're going to start with at what point do you make the objection because my my concern is. None of us have read the bills there's a stack of I don't know how many there in the question that we're going to have is each one of these come across is are they germane to the call now some of this may not care some of his you know make you say Hey we're gonna let the court challenge all day long the summer's going to say there's not much point in passing legislation that the courts not even going to allow it in whatever so my question is. Like at what point is that objection made. Okay well it is so what I would like to do is make a motion to have any of the Bills read across the desk that are related to redistricting. And then we would recess and reconsider those others at a later date if the call the pro tem or or whatever it needs to be but at this point if I could just make a motion to limit that any of the items read across the desk or going to be strictly limited to those related to redistricting. I would like to change to read these bills that I have not seen it all before I'm able to say these are germane or they're not germane and I'm happy to take a discussion on that is that is that your motion this is a debatable motion of if I understand your motion right. We have every ireda here seconds away I sent Irvin we recognize service questions sometimes this body is not present when items are read across the desk is not the purpose of your. This is K. anybody. I also have a question okay so you want to okay senator garner you have questions or you want to make a comment yes Sir typically Bills read across the desk all the time in a regular session and your file with the proper committee there's no discussion on the merits of the bill until you get to that committee making process so why would be any object minus the bill when sensually follow them as no legal recourse for matters outside of them just being within our body for a future debate I thank god for that out just a second ago because the point at which you object to being germane to the. Resolution is when it's being read across the desk if I'm understanding things right so it's read across the desk and assigned to a Committee and none of us are in this room then there is at no point that the anyone could object center of just to clarify you can object then but you can object. subsequently as well okay it's not like a magic time or if you don't get your election in. Okay have you got a you've got you've got leeway if you work here and work here later you can do it so let's just be clear about but if the deal leaves the commission my question and by the bill leaves this chamber and is assigned to a Committee then the control of that deals with the chair and a member of that committee not this full body and so the time in proper place for us to object to the Germaneness of a bill is that's being read across the desk because if not it'll be up to the eight members of that committee only and so what I'm asking again just to restate I've not seen ninety percent of these bills and none of you in this room have and we just spent an hour and a half of dating and discussing what does it mean to be able to be placed on the agenda you know what's your main was not germane what does it say specifically and we're supposed to apply that and then as we determine whether or not they're germane and object or done object I just need time personally to read to understand that I don't want to pass a bunch of bills that have no chance in the world of going anywhere because they're not germane to what we're supposed to be doing to conclude our business that that's that's the reason for the very clear. Also the when it comes back from committee did agree to. Eight Senator Ballinger wish to be recognized to speak against the motion. The truth is we have Bills read across the desk most of us don't read a bill until it comes before a committee or is coming to the floor that's the way regular order happens in this case we've got a lot more attention to it my guess is they're about ready to be read across the desk of the sign to committees just like that resolution just was just like we had that discussion will have the opportunity to do that upon each bill but we haven't yet read all the conventional maps either right we won't know until we actually get an opportunity to to have those ran and will be reviewing that's the way regular order happens I I do think that it is wrong to try to put new procedural the areas things in the place you know try to pass resolutions to make it harder for us to go out and get business done if you don't like the bill object to it and we'll have a vote on that objection but otherwise like with the with the bills as they come. A. B. record was. Well I I don't. Did you have questions Senator Rapert. I have a question I was waiting for to just come out that Mr my question is at what point. Is there going to be a reading of these bills across in the future it I don't know of any other time in the session frankly we're any of us have had more attention than right now. Thank. I'm just so I just want. And what but I do wonder if if that is a motion is going to be made. Then please advise us when you plan to do it so we all we hear you. He's right there. Yeah I think that I think Senator Rapert makes makes a point is that you know this thing is that we're going to get out of here in three days then we need to start having bills dealing with business today you put this off I I'm I can't say anything but it's an attempt to kill everything else besides the redistricting bills that's just the truth of the matter and that's what we're going on right now. It's Senator Hickey. Please K. what a gallery so this is exactly why we just spent the last two hours doing this if what was just stated was correct if it was a regular session and that's the way that we would normally do it and there wasn't a court case of precedent out there that might have an effect on this body then that's the way that we would proceed. I think I was very specific in saying that we may not be in unchartered waters but we're definitely in in unfamiliar waters I said that at the very start. Well and that is what I'm saying we're all sitting here saying what we normally do what we normally do what we normally do this isn't normal and I want to make sure that we get it right and to get it right we're going to have to consider each one of these bills that it was never the intent that that would be that these bills would get filed we're going to have to look at a moment as this body as they come across to make sure that they don't get sent to the committee and then that committee waste their time hearing those things and they come to the floor and I make an objection or somebody else does and then this declared not germane there's no sense of it we have a lot of work to return to do with these this maps in these this congressional redistricting so that's the way that's the reason it needs to be done like that thank you. I have a question of of Mr cook I mean the desk and for the matter of the public the death can be open and till seven o'clock eight o'clock at night and there's no real senators in here when bills are read across the desk and a signed into committee is that correct. So. Historically we got what we. Specially and special sessions right like this we try to expedite and sometimes do have to read bills late at night the. Yes right. Yes and so I mean but the purpose of what we're trying to do here is make sure that the public had adequate time and notice and sometimes you know that preclude them from actually having that public Timon notice so we have rules in place that prevents any quick action to be taken by the body so that the public had adequate time and notice for that so again you know I just wanted to ask that question because. We have to be able to understand the context of what we're dealing with with the resolution the extended recess thank you. Senator Clark Is recognized to speak against the motion. It. Before you speak against the motion. the Senate back in some other folks upward would you restate your motion please for the record thank you Senator Dismang. We need to ask I mean I understand the concern that we're not going to circle back to these we all know that that's not going to be the case you're going to read across the desk I think what I would like to see is that we have a predetermined time that those are going to be read across the desk so that all of this can be here participate in that process if we need to make objections and we can also be knowledgeable about the bill and so nine o'clock tomorrow would that be fine so as part of the motion so my motion to be that we limit the bill's being read across this to those that are just I related to redistricting congressional redistricting today and tomorrow at nine o'clock we we will consider or or the remaining bills be desk tomorrow clock there and at nine o'clock. That way again. Thank you in it that's the most okay that is the motion. In the middle of the discussion so we're gonna go to you to speak Senator Clark with I want to make sure center back and get this question answered as part of the motion no more bills can be filed is that correct now we can still file bills yes but shall we have a stack of bills that we make fun of people in the DC level all the time for not reading bills right raise your hand if you read all these bills come across the desk today. If we follow bill tomorrow morning. It is read across if you follow the news to me that back to bills to be read across. So your question is what ten o'clock tomorrow you want a bill filed against okay man and then I think we need to discuss that at that point I think as long as we have enough. The time to have refuted understand what's in the bill than that that's fine I don't care when the read across the desk after that but today there are a number of bills that are just now being filed that we were fixing to read across the desk in a matter of minutes okay that none of us have read that were all being asked to just been a cut in our whatever you know making sure we understand how to read them to know if there germane or not to the extension of the session that that's the point of what we're trying to do any real quick questions for Senator Dismang feel taken under mark Johnson. Thank you Mr president Senator Dismang the purpose of your motion to allow state agencies committee to move forward with their work yes I would like to get a state agencies needs to move forward we need to hear those bills we need to get him read across the desk assigned to committee but that debate begin in the meantime the rest of us that are not on state agencies can be reviewing the number of other bills have been filed that we we know we're talking about now what we know what we're looking at and I mean honestly you know my motion is directly related to some of the questions you had about process earlier I think it's thank you Senator Ballinger has a question. Everybody else please be quiet. I I understand like I totally want transparency and for people to to see that I think that maybe the the court records that for one is not to vote for the the motion it's going to come allows us to basically waive the regular order the time that you know maybe they do we need to plan on being here a little bit longer but my argument is not read any of the bills. That they've been filed in prior because coming in the session and congressional redistricting in support I think is a lot of other things that may be taken out and so if what we're talking about is having time to review with the public to see or whatever then the court records is not to set aside some bills or whatever as a collective the correct records would be don't vote for the motion in order to to expedite things and allow time for Republicans is that Moore that's apples and oranges at least in my opinion because the redistricting bills are clearly germane to the extension of the session there are a number of other bills in in hence the reason we just didn't debate and talk about understanding you know the the resolution earlier because of redistricting bills we did it because of the number of other items that have been filed and so that amended to me it's apples and oranges I understand that if you file a bill to draw a map that it's about drawing a map is going to go to state agencies and instrument of the call and so that that's the difference to me personally and again to to back up to why you know the the why is because the point at which Senator Johnson had pointed out earlier that you object to the Germaneness of the bill is as they're being read across the desk that was fixing to take place that was about to take place in one and I haven't read the other bills in the in granted I haven't read all the redistricting bills either again I'm not concerned about them not being germane and so I would like time to be able to take the information that we just learned. And robin applied differently and that's all fine and make sure that I understand how to apply to the bills that I haven't seen. Senator Clark. Mr of very much appreciate Senator Dismang center Hickey's objections of and. Their points. Having said that. There are several flaws. In that process. Of let me start with the my dad's an English teacher and I have a pretty good reading comprehension of fact compared to most people really good except when it comes to technical manuals and Legislative bills. Of and I have found that until it goes through the committee process a lot of times in the last somebody on the floor a specific question about a bill I don't know what the bill says. And of so. The idea that I'm going to read all these bills and know for sure there Germaneness of ever bill by nine o'clock in the morning. Is very flawed let me go further because you all know how plain nine AM. The that a number of you that I'm looking at are going to read these bills before nine in the morning. It's a lot. That ain't happenin. Of this so we're talking about a way of mass rejecting bills that you're not even going to read. Of and so that comes back to the Committee process which may be a little more messy but it works and that's a way of finding out whether bills are germane or not because we talked about a number of things isn't. You know what. That discussion what were they were they stalking Committee is that going to be a way of it It is that good to be aware of determining or the is it something that specifically this resolution of is that going to be a way of determining and the so just this that will that everybody's gonna read on which is not going to happen and then we're going to have a vote is each bill comes through. I don't really want to you know I I think the vast majority of bills are not going to be germane and so going to that part I appreciate very much do Senator Dismang is that correct the the the having to go through the committee process but I also don't want to short change the way things ought to happen we're here to do the work of and I think we ought to do the work and I don't see a way to not do it and do it correctly thank you I'll be happy to take any questions. Four again okay Senator Rapert. Against four against the motion I actually not going to plow the same ground sort of been plowed but I think it's only for other members this been done. I think there's only for the members down here's been been here longer than I have I've never seen a motion to stop a bill from being read across the desk input into the process like this. I don't think we need to start that process now I think we need to get on the business of the state we're down here to represent the interests of the people but these bills be assigned as they should be and then find them if you want to but I've just never seen that done and I I would appreciate a vote against. Senator Hickey has a question. Thank you. Have you ever been here during a extended recess no extended recess but many special sessions many of them that ended at midnight. Senator Hendren. Thank you Mr chairman and kind of along that same line I've been to a few special sessions to have you ever seen dailies of bills like this that were not on the call specifically on the call in a special session. Well there's many attention people file bills seeking to have bills added that are not specifically on the call have you ever seen it added and passed a bill that was not on the call I have to go back and look at that we've had a lot of special session since I've been down here since twenty ten but I'm just saying centers and I get it people have opposition to even taken out some of the bills they don't even want to vote on my understand that but I just never seen that this is this a motion be made for the process to stop the reading and I can surely tell you that there's never been a motion made since I've been here twenty ten they said you could not read a bill across the desk can get it so that the public can have an opportunity to see that and and again find it out as we may but what we're about to do is we're creating such a clog in the system we may never get out of here I want us to do the business of the people and go home. So voter don't vote. All those let me restate yeah I mean like to close your on that number number one this is not a regular session we need to stop saying when regular session one extended part of a regular session due to a resolution that we passed that requires us to find whether or not bills are germane to that particular resolution. That's my opinion I'm not trying to slow anything down this isn't about debating the merits of a particular bill there are plenty of bills I'm sure they're gonna be filed that are germane to the resolution those are two separate things. I mean when Senator Ballinger presents his bill and if it's germane to the call at that point I can't make an objection that is not germane. Other others that I can. And maybe should mainly because why would we send a bunch of stuff to the judicial branch just for them to say wasn't germane. And that's the reason as far as opportunities Senator Clark I can't help it there are plenty of people that don't engage in this chamber you're absolutely right I try not to be one of the. And I want to be engaged. But I can't be engaged if I can't read the bills and to your point Senator Rapert. These are all online right now within the last few minutes that does not prevent the public from being able to see them when they're not read across the desk. All it does is allow us to do our job that we just spent an hour and a half or whatever it was talking about. But I can't do my job if I can't read the bills. That's the reason for the motion so let's get out of the weeds and we're not trying to slow things up or whatever it may be but I've got a responsibility before we Senator Hester filed a bill that's related to taxation nowhere in the resolution to say anything about taxes it's not a bad bill. But is not germane. I need to be able to see the bills I'm asking for the time to be able to do that I hope that we all take the opportunity to Senator Clark to do our job and I'm sorry if some choose not to it will not be may. With that I appreciate a good vote. Of the bills on this desk receipt now if the related to redistribute. They're not related to redistricting tomorrow at nine hundred Roger. All those of favour say aye. Close. That's a close the C. five and. Yeah. Let's do it again this ruling was a close to all those in favor say aye. I have a. We got enough noise down here and I'm already here. We got five hands please call the roll. Ballinger. Beckham. Bledsoe. Caldwell. Caldwell. Chesterfield. Clark. Davis. DISMANG. Aids. Eight. Elliott. English. Flippo. Flowers. Flowers. Garner. Gilmore. Hammer. Hendren. Hester. Hickey. Health. Ingram. Irvine. Blake Johnson. Mark Johnson. Leding. Page. Right. Rice. Sample. Stubblefield. Sturch. Sullivan. Teague. T. R. Tucker. Wallace. You always to vote or change their vote. Sixteen days sixteen days I gave the tie breaking vote. Not all of. We're gonna remove you keep talking. Your call is not a. We don't have a motion. Motion didn't care. In. Yes resolutions are. Yeah. Senate bill seven nineteen by Senator Ballenger to establish a right of privacy concerning covered nineteen vaccination status to establish a grant program for distribution from having that pain relief funds and Claire emergency Senate bill seven nineteen. Public health Senate bill seven twenty by Senator Mark Johnson to amend the four congressional districts of Arkansas Senate bill seven twenty state agencies Senate bill seven twenty one by Senator Hester to amend Arkansas law regarding the four congressional districts Senate bill seven twenty one. Let me say this fire anything anybody mention anything about elections or campaigns still there you're gonna be gone regardless but you're really going to be gone if you mention. State agency please continue. State. Senate bill seven twenty two by Senator Clark concerning the four congressional districts in Arkansas Senate bill seven twenty two. State. Senate bill seven twenty three by Senator Clark concerning the establishment of the four congressional districts and bill seven twenty three. Stay that senate seven twenty four by Senator Leding to amend the Arkansas law concerning the establishment of the four congressional districts Senate bill seven twenty fourth St at Simmons seven twenty five by Senator Davis to establish the twenty twenty one twenty thirty a congressional districts in Arkansas and you play on emergency Senate bill seven twenty five state agency. Senate bill seven twenty six by Senator Davis to establish the congressional districts in Arkansas and declare an emergency Senate bill seven twenty six state agency senate seven twenty seven by Senator Clark concerning the federal decennial census and the boundaries of congressional districts Senate bill seven twenty seven state Senate bill seven twenty eight by Senator Elliot concerning the establishment of four congressional districts in Arkansas based upon the most recent census data Senate bill seven twenty eighth St eight senate seven twenty nine by Senator Mark Johnson an act to change the four congressional districts as a result of the most recent federal decennial census data and declare an emergency Senate bill seven twenty nine St eight senate seven thirty by Senator Garner. Demand the division of workforce services law to authorize unemployment. Benefits for an individual who is terminated solely due to the refusal to be vaccinated against covered nineteen senate seven thirty public health Senate bill seven thirty one by Senator Ballenger to establish a right of privacy concerning COVID nineteen vaccination status to establish a grant program from Calvert nineteen relief funds or American rescue plan active twenty twenty one signs and plan of merger to senate seven thirty one. Public Health symbol seven thirty two by Senator Blake Johnson. To prohibit corrosion of persons to receive the vaccine or immunization for covered nineteen and declared emergency senate seven thirty two. Public Health symbol seven thirty three by Senator Garner to modified hours of porn teen acylation and control of infectious. Contagious and communicable diseases Senate bill seven thirty three. Senate bill seven thirty four by Senator Garner to treat natural immunity to up to covet nineteen the same as a vaccine or immunization for covered nineteen Senate bill seven thirty four. Senate bill seven thirty five by senator garner to require the department of health to establish rules regarding the administration of therapeutic treatments for covered nineteen when a person tests positive for covered nineteen Senate bill seven thirty five public Senate bill seven thirty six by Senator Ballenger to address mandates related to cover nineteen to provide exemptions for employees for mandates related to covet nineteen and declare an emergency senate seven thirty six. Senate bill seven thirty seven by Senator Clark. To prohibit private employers and public accommodations from discriminating based discriminating based on a person's vaccination status or possession of the vaccine passport I am from mandating vaccines for covered nineteen Senate bill seven thirty seven. Senate bill seven thirty eight by Senator Clark to prohibit private employers and public accommodations for discriminating based on a person's vaccination status or possession of a vaccine passport information dating back scenes for calving nineteen Senate bill seven thirty eight okay Senate bill seven thirty nine by Senator Hammer to provide employee exemptions from federal mandates and employer mandates related to cover nineteen to authorize unemployment benefits and plan emergency senate seven thirty nine. Senate bill seven forty by Senator Clark to prohibit private employers and public accommodations for just from discriminating based on a on a person's vaccination status or possession of a back thing passport information dating back saying for Kevin nineteen and clear them March St Senate bill seven forty. Senate resolution yet again. Senate resolution. While logging ten thirty yeah Senate resolution thirty one by Senator Ballenger to honor coach Tom Harrell is the longest tenured active high school football coach in the state of Arkansas Senate resolution thirty one calendar Senate resolution thirty two by Senator Mark Johnson you're recognized Julia Gaffney for earning two bronze medals in swimming at the Tokyo twenty twenty paraplegic out. Of. Olympic Games Senate resolution thirty two counted. Any announcmenet this. Yeah in. Okay. Members we we do need to make a motion so that we can hear the redistricting bills because of the twenty four hour rule that we have mentioned a minute ago so that Senate rule seven nine I make a motion to suspend Senate rule seven I would say is that No bill resolution introducing referred to committee may be may be considered by a committee until at least one intervening day occurs between the date of the referral and the date the Committee maze to concur to conduct business. Question. It'll be for all. Follows. Both. I. Questions carried. Any other Senator Rapert. This looks like that may be at least some of our some of our members are not on the floor Mister chair but definitely state agencies will attempt to meet at one thirty PM I believe let me if the chair would allow I would to entertain a questioner from senator garner about the code revision commission I believe there may be a conflict with the time is so is there gonna be a problem with the members that are on our committee from being able to come back I know it's at the same time all the state agency okay so we will meet at one thirty PM thank you anything else. Senator Hammer. Can we hear determination from the public health chairs weather or meeting or not today. Let's. Thank you. What. Bills. Senator Hickey we we're gonna agenda are not not recognize. Yeah. Senate. The help committee will meet in thirty minutes. Thank. Question thank you everybody. She's right there to tell them where. Senator John or not I am.