Joint Budget Committee - Pre-Fiscal Session Budget Hearings

Okay we'll call Joint Budget order. First item on the agenda is the B. one. This is a letter from the governor. These are all the bills that we're going to draft you get staff to draft that are re appropriations re appropriations or projects that'll be moved over from one fiscal year to another the purpose in the amount does not change and all we're doing on this is asking staff to draft them. into bill form and I have a fantasy. Anything else I have failed to mention. Mr chairman that pretty much covers it I I would just say on page two you can see the first column shows the agency the third column shows the act that's being re appropriated and then you see the purpose and then the amount. And adoption of this letter will allow us to draft those bills Mr chairman okay. Representative Cavenaugh if you have a question yeah just for the for the chair yes ma'am clarification when we do these drafting and we're just doing the reappropriation does this take in consideration any of the moneys that they might have already spent on the original appropriations it is taken out okay thank you. Any other questions. I need a motion to adopt this letter I have a motion and a second any discussion. All in favor say aye any opposed. There is adopted. Adam to is the office of auditor of misbranded shown have a letter from state Akhter thank you Mr chairman yes Is side and be to order state this is requested changes for the fiscal year twenty three appropriation bill. Again if a if this letter is adopted these changes would be incorporated into the bill before it is introduced. As you can see in the middle of the page Page one it shows the current positions and amounts and below that it shows the requested at the very bottom page one the requested changes to that when you turn to page two. You can see the first part has a savings of thirty three thousand eighty two dollars there's no change in the number of positions and then the other salary section that they request to make changes in is in the middle of the page you can see the current. Things there at the positions this is a this is their unclaimed property appropriation with eleven positions and you can see there are requesting to change that down to ten positions with another savings of thirty three thousand dollars Mr chairman at the bottom of the page is also special language that they're requesting this is new special language they would like to include in their bill this is the operations manager that's one of their positions shall hold a certified public accountant licensed and also the internal auditor shall hold an active certification as a certified internal auditor chairman that's to that's the request. Okay members you have any questions. Seeing none need a motion to adopt this letter we have a motion and a second any discussion. All in favor say aye. Letter is adopted mistranslated known to Adam three. They got it yes Sir I can be three Arkansas legislative audit. Adoption of this letter will allow us to incorporate these requested changes into the bill for their introduced as you can see the chart in the middle of the page shows the current title grade in Max and the requested title grading Max. You members got any questions on this. The motion to adopt the letter I have a motion and a second any discussion all in favor say aye any opposed. Restrains for going own number four thank you Mr chairman this is for the pure of Legislative Research. This is for changes in the grading classifications as shown in the middle of the page adoption of this letter would allow this to be included in the appropriation bill before it is introduced. The representative Jett were honored by your presence today. Of any questions on this. Let. I remember I got a motion to approve the letter have a second any discussion all in favor say aye opposed. Letters adopted members we're gonna go we're gonna pass over. Which ones that. Okay go ahead usually if we're still on B.. yes Sir Mr chairman of the five has three items a BNC of sees the one she said you will pass over Mr chairman item a this the let me first say these are items that were identified for the committee's consideration during the interim item a this deals you can see there are twelve departments they're listed and they have shared service special language which allows the departments when they were created during transformation this is special language shared service language that's in each of the department bills that allows them to move positions to a statewide. A newly created regular salary section I mean to a centralized newly created sorry section excuse me this section is funded with transfers of money from each division they perform the services for. The intent of the shared service language was that this language was to allow this transfer during the interim and was to be temporary and it actually contains language that we are to notify staff that this language is supposed to be temporary. So you can see on page two this is a copy of the shared the current language shows the actual language that is in those twelve department bills. In on page three that is bold and you can see where we are charged to identify an item to this committee that this was designed to be temporary language. The draft language that is next to it the recommended draft language on page two allows that the shared services regular salary sections an appropriation sections are established in the bills and it allows them to transfer funds from each division for those positions episode that perform services for each of those departments. Mr chairman Adoption of this would delete the shared service language. As is as currently is and put in the new draft language to allow them to continue to pay those positions department wide okay. Members who have any questions on the language here. All right whose sentences are you still in C. sixty one Senator Hammer yes Sir Jett. I just want to hoop who provided this language was is from legislator staff for the department Mr we we work with the FAA accounting it just if we were to just eliminate the shared service language there could be some issues with them to allow to pay for those shared service positions from various divisions so this Division this new language is traveling which recommended by your staff and working with DFA accounting to allow that to continue to be paid the the purpose of that is say you have one position an attorney position that is now established insurance services you don't have attorney positions and all of the each division now it's one position to eliminate duplication of services and then it allows that one position to be funded by each of those divisions they perform services for and some of those divisions may be funded from sources other than general revenue such as federal revenue or cash funds so does allow for savings in general revenue as well. I got a question to the chair of. Is the agency gonna come up to speak to this server. Can you call the agency up to speak to this. Or do you DFA you want to speak to it. I don't think there's any problem with this was done two years ago when we started the shared services and is get it back like it was before we we let it have the latitude it in this this brings it back to where it was prior to that all right and and Mister we're going with this just should know there's a report that came out from lake audit regarding shared services whether or not it's producing the savings that we were led to believe that it was going to produce that report just came out and still trying to analyze it I just don't want to let it pass over us do we have a chance to look at anything deal with shared services to to make sure what the future of it's going to be based on what the lake audit report shows so this is not the proper time to have that discussion before we get out a budget hearing so I want to have that discussion whatever you call for it okay we'll be fine all right thank you thank you. All right. Representative with and I still think you're eighteen archer yes you're recognized thank you Mr chairman of. Can can you can you give us a brief synopsis of exactly the difference on the other line instead of the we covered all this in the transformation legislation and. I will follow up on Center hammers question what you know or we haven't savings moving all these people into the shared services division because like you said not all of the head these positions in their agencies to be transferred. The main how may not be making yes Sir students with I'm trying I'm trying to get my arms around these central offices because I've been there I know what you're up against but at the same time are we saving anything some of these agencies were small and may not have personnel to be transferred like Senator Hammer pointed out so you can you just give us a brief what does this do that we're already doing. You almanacs. Thank you Mr chairman yes Sir this is just dealing with when there when transformation took place a bunch of various divisions were combined in each of these divisions performed all of their own procurement their own human resources all of those functions and rather and when we created the new department rather than have all of the silos for all these services were duplicated we created a what's called a shared services regular salary section. And positions were then transferred attorneys or transfer human resource people or transfer that performs a department wide services to one centralized Division it was to create a centralized Division that could be paid out of each of the other divisions for the services they performed. And. They have since the all these departments have since created these. Centralized visions all twelve of them listed and what this does is say okay we no longer need this language to allow them to do this during the interim they have to come before the committee in budget hearings and regular fiscal session just like all the other agencies if they want to make any adjustments to that centralized service centralized section okay couldn't couldn't can you tell us. Okay can you can you provide us the information of what. The. Good decisions there were filled cost the taxpayers verses what we're doing now in other words there's the this is a an agency has twelve of twelve the sales department has twelve agencies in it and when you consolidated into the central office and they had twenty positions in those twelve agencies it was that cut to a. How were they able to save money. Mr. All right yes Sir they The concept behind it is that they can create efficiencies by having a centralized division just like you're saying that performs department wide services and eliminate some positions we would have to we I don't have that information on hand how many positions were eliminated due to shared services we can certainly get that okay I think that would be interesting to find out you know if it like civil agency before they were consolidated had twenty positions for that among the twelve they brought him in we we all realize that positions are not totally of field or or have a workload that completely takes all their time is what I'm after and I think would be of interest to the committee would be though did we save from twenty positions down the eighteen down the sixteen positions in that or do we just created another level of bureaucracy with the central all yes Sir I may not understand the transformation understand the reorganization but did we realize in this you yes Sir this this thing which actually gave these departments more flexibility to move positions during the interim to create this new centralized Division and now that those have been created we are charged reminding the committee that this was designed to be temporary for the committee decided they want to take it out now and just have them go through the normal process that's the and that's what we are now and we will get that information for you. Thank you will be limited this also of is just a letter to adopt but also this also gives back legislation more oversight than than what we had a some of us funded thank make that point number one again we're just going to adopt this to get the the Bill written when we come back into fiscal session this will come up and we can debate this even further than thank you Mr chairman thank you Kevin of Senator Elliot you're recognized. Thank you Mr I'm hoping I'm just still on the right subject but I I I speak for years when we would go to special language and I when I was on there and I work with representative how some some of the stuff we would have this language where people will come and year after year the same language over and over again and we begin to ask the question process wise what we're going to keep doing this why don't we just put it in legislation and get it over with is this a part of that process that we're doing because that's how I'm interpreting what I'm doing with the language Mr shares of no ma'am we are working on that right now on seeing what we can codified at a special language and we've identified. Four well into that project it's a it's a massive project okay and that's for the next regular session this is not part of that project this is actually eliminating language that was designed to be temporary ha but the new traveling which allows them to continue to fund it out of each division so that they can have a general revenue savings okay all right I understand thank you for the clarification thank you senator. All right members seeing no other questions or need a motion to adopt the letter I have a motion and a second any discussion all in favor say aye opposed. Letters adopted we're going to be yes Sir Clark may of the letter okay Mr chairman item B. this is for the department of energy and environment. You can see that language is on page four this is. Legitimately cleanup of all language that allow the department of environmental quality to borrow money for the budget stabilization for the Bellavista fire this language was not utilized no no funds were borrowed however when the language was put in the bill it did not have a sunset clause therefore it is still out there effective as uncodified law. If the committee adopts the new language it will go ahead and delete that so that language goes away permanently. All right members any questions. I have a motion to adopt part because the latter have a motion and a second any discussion all in favor say aye. Any opposed or B. as adopted. Members this is Adam see that we're going to pass over today. This is the two year. On field positions we would die identified somewhere around three hundred seventy six we thank there's maybe a couple hundred more that staff is going through but what we don't know is and we're separating that and we'll have time to I don't know if it'll be tomorrow but certainly next week that we can look at this and see which positions or budgeted with insurance because some of them more and seven more were you give staff time to weed through room this came to Mr Wilkins bill we're certainly do though I think we as a state as a committee need to know which positions or thank about deleting are tied to premiums on insurance and which ones are not so we'll give staff a little bit more time I think we can take this up next week so that's that's why we're passing over this any questions. I appreciate it. All right we'll move misbranded. To the apartment of corrections. We do have an audit finding of audit will go on for. Mr Morgan if you come for and identify yourself. And I think the. Audit findings should be at the bottom of your thank you. Let me know if anybody does not have an audit package. Seeing none. You identify yourself Mr Morgan you can move on with the findings. Thank you Mr chair don Morgan fill a supervisor for legislative audit. The department of corrections June thirty twenty twenty report contained three findings. The agency reported to us in this misappropriation of property as the division of corrections center armory involving ammunition a firearm internal affairs at the department of corrections investigated the allegation and determined that an employee of the central armory was selling ammunition purchased by the department with the majority of ammunition so coming from the grounds unit. The employee also returned a firearm that was shown to be deactivated aces and had a division of correction in House immature number changed. In January of two thousand seventeen the grounds unit transferred over thirty four thousand rounds of ammunition to the central armory yes it was no longer in no longer needed and from there it was scheduled to be moved M. and R. for disposal. However in our did not receive the ammunition based on internal affairs investigation over twenty eight thousand rounds with an estimated cost of almost nine thousand dollars could not be accounted for. During an in house inventory of firearms authorized million in April twenty twenty one weapon was found was deactivated and asus Central armory staff were informed they instructed Russell unit staff to return to deactivate item so that the armory could issue a new firearms. During follow up procedures internal affairs cannot locate a transfer for transfer form for the deactivated firearm that showed it being received at Central armoring. The firm was returned to internal affairs by the same central armory employee that allegedly so the ammunition. Internal affairs has provided all information to the Arkansas state police which is open a criminal investigation. This fund was also referred to the prosecuting attorney. Funny number two the agency reported to us that an employee had received a non authorized salary increase which resulted in an overpayment of wages totaling forty six hundred dollars a management level employee with the Division of correction instructed human resource staff that the employee had received a salary increase the increase was input into basis by staff without any documentation from someone with authority to approve the change. This body was also re referred to the prosecuting attorney. Funding number three. And daily deposit activity for thirty days was tested from inmate banking unit of the division of community corrections. We noted for days in the did not include a listing of checks receipt for that day four days and included the check listing that did not indicate who perform the procedure which limit our ability to verify proper segregation of duties and three days it did not have proper segregation of duties as the same individual received the recorded today's activity. Management also cannot provide documentation of supervisory review and approval of any cash receipts transactions boarded in the State accounting system during the fiscal year. Six receives from the pre numbered receipt books maintained by the division of corrections nor central unit we're missing the original or one of the duplicate duplicate copies of the boarded receipt. We also have one funding from the arc Arkansas department of correction report on certification the consumption of farm produce for the year ending June thirty twenty twenty. The funding reads we are charged with reviewing the farm accounting records and certifying whether the amount of farm produce reported as consumed by inmates and the value of the agency places on these products are accurate the agency mistakenly reported in November two thousand six two thousand seventeen it consumption amount of one hundred twenty five thousand dollars as in November two thousand nineteen it consumption about. Farm records we tested reveal the two thousand nineteen it consumption was forty five thousand dollars resulting in an overstatement of eighty thousand dollars Mister chair that conclusive findings. Okay we got some questions for the audit of Mister with your first up. President will your thank you I'm I'm curious here. You're you're telling us that the twenty eight thousand rounds. Disappeared. In twenty seventeen is this the first time we've been made aware of this. In January and then the second question if I may Mister chairman is this is a. Central AR million priority that allegedly sold ammunition with an altar Division of correction inventory number this is the same employee was still there and have a weapon that was deactivated and he turned in after you've already turned in another weapon and he was still there. Yes Sir is that is that situation I think so. As my understanding so so how do you know do you have any other deal how many other armories at the science Grimes Brickey Tucker of Cummins the how many rounds of ammunition to that thirty four thousand rounds Sir I'm not sure the number on that we can we can get that for you but I I I I don't have a number on that I don't know. What am I correct this is happened in twenty seventeen. yes service. That's when the yes that's when the. The rounds are transferred from the ground unit to the central armory so they went missing sometimes after they were transferred sometime between seventeen and nineteen follow up if I may go ahead are you or use or use or will soon. This is the employee and and in paragraph one was questioned by internal affairs the employee return the Division of correction firearm that was shown to be deactivated should have been it is I mean and he still had it or she or whoever yes Sir he still had it. And then the rounds okay what's the time frame between the determination of the deactivated gun and then the the rounds disappear. Do we know that they have the thirty four thousand to start with he sold all that. Their investigation should show the twenty eight thousand rounds out. That's. They just disappear yeah this one skill they could have been on the streets a little raw could build streets in pine bluff the anywhere yeah. You're correct and that happened four years ago. Yes Sir. Mr Assabet that's ridiculous that's widely apartment up here would you have any more questions from the audience I have one mortgage of. Was this audit found in two thousand and eighteen. No Sir when what when was it found this is the twenty twenty audit and so that's when we were notified daisy notified us of this is their investigation they did on the on the armory and they notified us of this we. How often do we do an audit of the department correction we do an audit each year on the department of correction do not do stuff like inventory of ammunition and and weapons every year in the past we have not done inventory on the ammunition it's armories. Are we going to start doing it. What we can we sure can okay I think we need to have is this something that I have this a lot inventory and I know when I was mayor we did inventory on on everything in the city of magnolia every year I think we United auditing of stuff like ammunition and gun to every year how do you know it can be a long time before you realize its mission is if we did this case all right. Of the representative Cavenaugh if you got a question for audit. It's actually for the agency we're gonna bring him up later we'll get it all for. All right Senator flowers you have a. Question for. The up for audit. Still ahead ma'am when was the. Referral made to the state police and you are I think I heard you mention that it was also referred to a prosecutor. Yes ma'am but what prosecuting attorney's office has that the palm Bill. Since it was in that area. The central armories in pine bluff so we're we referred it to that prosecuting attorney. But the Grimes unit is in Newport right the grounds in it is a new port that's where the around the rounds originated from and they have the sensual armory and time bluff so the rounds went to the armory but they never went to M. and R. after that. The ham in our is what marketing reduced distribution. I used to be part of the department of finance administration believe this trance. And that's in in pine bluff in the central. Yes ma'am the central army armor is in pine bluff. So where were the rounds taken from it says transferred by the grands unit these twenty eight thousand plus rounds. Where were they. Where were they taken from where where they discovered missing they were taken from the ground unit which is in Newport and sent to the central armory and bluff they made it there but then they'd. There's no record of him going to M. and R. after that. But the heir to the central armory in pine bluff so did you all find evidence that they were actually delivered to the central armory in pine bluff. Yes ma'am so there was some receipt by somebody in pine bluff that they receive them yes ma'am. Do you have the names of the individuals that are involved in this is that uh yes ma'am the. The person that the central armor who was a simple Central armor if the central armory and time bluff was Robert Hutchison. Robert Hutchinson yes yes ma'am and how long has he been an employee there do you know I do not know that. Four hours I know it's. Bring up the agency in a minute and and they can they might be to answer these questions that Mister Morgan K. all right but I'd like to know when audit actually made the referral to the prosecutor's office in Jefferson County and to the state police we made the The. We refer to the prosecuting attorney November ninth twenty twenty one that's when it went to committee. Our record is that two months ago yes ma'am and when did it and they did go to the state police. I do not have a date on that the agency sent that to the state police shortly before that. Or that your office that made the referral to the prosecutor's office or the state police we made the referral to the prosecuting attorney in the agency made the referral to the state police. Thank you Mr thank you all right which would you want to talk to the Department of. All. All right hold on hold on. You got another question for audit. You're recognized yes I'm. Do you love who am toward it at the Grimes that's where it started inventory that thirty four thousand to say it ever left there the agency the agency yes Sir they took the inventory and twenty seventeen yes Sir and and so did was in inventory again when it arrived at the the sentry armor Central armor in pine bluff I believe so that I believe they have the paperwork showing it that have an Pamba. So you're you're you're basing your assumption on the fact that women are never got to thirty four thousand never got never got the total thirty four thousand yes Sir so so if the inventory was correct or the sure I'm right now if the inventory was correct when it left Grimes then the problem develop somewhere in the central office Senate armory in pine bluff ark it develop it MNR when it got there somebody shard. Got to know the isn't Central armory what do we have an exact they want when we know we have physical possession because I'm wondering if it ever left Grimes. Sir they did interviews with employees he sold this and ammunition to some other employees so we have some interviews. Thank you senator views we looked at where they interviewed the central armor and they had he had so ammunition this is a to other employees other employees did not know. It was the Department corrections ammunition I thought he was just sale and okay thank you Mr chairman thank you Sir Mr Maher thank you. Representa Fortner is yours for the audit or the agency. Alright. Department okay. Rigid Cavenaugh if you want of the department okay. Senator hammer you will talk to the audit yes thank you you're recognized you may have said this not missed it what what possessed you all to take a look at this for you given a tip the department reported it you just stumbled into when you're doing the other auditor would put John to that the roof department report it to us so self reported by the department yes Sir okay thank you thank Mr okay. Thanks for going to this little out order we're going to ask Mister graves come up and answer questions and then we'll go to Mister Coleman. And do the summary of the of the department corrections but I know there's some questions for him on on this audit I think we need to. Of. If you got an open statement you want to say before you take any questions yes Sir Mr Mister chairman if I may have missed on this audit leeway to give some background on this issue this as senator Hammer G. just ask this item was still supported by the department of corrections to legislative audit after we conducted a internal investigation shortly after I became secretary in the summer of twenty twenty we received a tip from a deal see employee that are former central armor may have been diverting surplus inventory of selling it on the street. We investigated that to determine that there was merit to the allegations and immediately reported it to the Arkansas state police as we had reason to believe that the diversion may have risen to a criminal level. The state police did an investigation referred it to the of local prosecuting attorney in Jefferson County prosecuting attorney they are determined that there was not sufficient evidence to file criminal charges. A couple things that led to this and OB those of you who have worked with me no I pride myself on transparency we did not have adequate inventory controls I've been and we readily admit that and we have addressed that what we had is a system that was really based on honesty. Our central armor maintain the sole inventory four AM ammunition for weapons in their possession that was not a best practice I realize that our division director realize that and we have since moved to a automated inventory system using the quickbooks system those of you who are in private business may be aware of quickbooks where now all of our ammunition is kept in the quickbooks inventory management system what that allows is not just our armor in pine bluff to have access to those records but our CFO's office has access to those records our internal audit unit has access to those records our division director has access to those records as needed I have access to those records also the we re evaluated the amount of ammunition that we were sending out to our units realize that in in some areas we had more inventory then operations would necessitated so we have now reduced the and amount of ammunition only to what is required for annual qualification and emergency response this is something that we take X. we took extremely seriously while we believe that the majority of the ammunition was unknowingly sold to department employees and subsequently returned as we were able to identify some of those sales to representative wooden's point it it could have ended up in other locations I want to in a sure this committee that it we do not intend for this to happen again as of. Hi indicated on the front end we self reported this to legislative audit because we wanted them to be aware of this type of this diversion we took full responsibility for the individual. was responsible for the diversion is no longer employed by the Department senator flowers to your question I've got my HR chief I ask them to step out and get those years of service prior to his separation from the Department and we'll make sure to get that to staff so you can have that information one apologize and assure this committee that we are doing everything in our power to mitigate the risk of a diversion of this nature happening again with that I'll be happy to answer any questions this great I just have one question I think you confirm this so you have all the confidence that the examination got from Grimes to the pine bluff unit yes we have our each of our units has a armor at that risk at the location responsible for lethal and less lethal munitions we have records that indicate that that armor receded that inventory to the central armory in the center and the diversion happen at the central AR okay thank you we got some questions. Representative Cavenaugh if you got a question. Thank you Mr chair of order to resume my question is what was a tender of this employee. December of two thousand seven to April of twenty twenty one okay so. I had some service time yes ma'am. And we had never discovered this is it because we weren't doing inventory of prior causes not probably a one time I have any questions correct again our inventory control was not adequate I'll is very bluntly say it like that that is why we have moved to a invent a computer based inventory management system that is not maintained solely by that individual and those records are accessible by individuals outside of that that armor follow up Mr go ahead. The you said that this some the armor I'm assuming is the one that was actually selling the ammunition and you think to other actually employees what about the employees that knowingly bought ammunition that they knew was stolen what happened to those employees those individuals that we were able to identify of purchase the ammunition and beyond is as is common in these types of incidents once word got out that we were looking into this we had individuals who came to us as set I bought into ammunition from this individual we had no we have had no indication both during that investigation and sense that any individual knew where that ammunition came from this individual have of part time of of of was of gunsmithing and did this as a part time business so they had no reason to understand that this was anything other than ammunition that he had come across during the normal course of this private business did we get any of the moneys back for what sold of no ma'am we will of when we identified the diversion we turned it over to Arkansas state police immediately so as to not taint their criminal investigation we had no mechanism in place to recoup any of the with recoup value of the diversion again part of this issues stem from inadequate inventory controls on the part of the department at the time that we have since corrected how much ammunition is stored at these units. That's going to depend on the size of the unit again again we now tie animal to the number of qualifications we have to do and the number we believe to be a required for emergency response if the committee would allow all of our division director expand on that Sir if you identify yourself. Next to paying director for the division of correction your go ahead Sturman members of at different units depending on the size of you may store five to ten thousand rounds those facilities one one of the things with these the ammunition that was missing what thirty eight rounds and basically we had went from the wheel guns of thirty eight of revolvers to Glock forty caliber pistol so that's basically what we had that animal stored a grant we went away from those particular weapons so the animal was brought to central armory in that armor was trusted into take care that a turning in in our in which the you know violated our trust. Okay how but that doesn't tell me how much ammunition you have stored it will it varies from unit to unit I'd like to know that. Okay in the no I didn't give it to me now if you can give it to me life will follow up yesterday I think okay that is right thank you so much. All right representa Fortner. To you for right. Thank you Mr chairman and thank you for your open honesty I have a question maybe it definition when it says disposal does that mean destroy or redistribute ourselves. So the of what is supposed to happen with ammunition and any form of state property is that it is transferred to the marketing and we distribution unit within the Department of transformation and should services and they in turn will sell it to all four used usually a below market rate like any other form of government property follow. Where a thank you so that it is sold yes is it offered referred to other law enforcement agencies such as county sheriff's and and That sort of thing okay it is of course offered to cities cities and counties thank you. All right members of. Senator Hammer you're still the sixty one. Thank you Mr of a I appreciate yourself reporting be appreciated taken ownership this morning but the one thing that bothers me most is the fact that the prosecutor didn't prosecute what can you tell us about the decision of the prosecutor and I did you say Jefferson County yes Sir tell what can you tell us about why the prosecutor Jefferson County did not prosecute of the there during the course of our internal investigation while we were able to identify an approx submit amount and state police was also able to do the same when the prosecutor was referred was reviewing the criminal referral he felt that he would be unable to identify at. Assert a monetary value sufficient to reach the felony threshold in order to file charges. So instead of pursuing any prosecution such as at a state level once he could reach the threshold to be able to do it at a felony level he just abandoned doing it in spite of the fact I would assume that there were testimony of people that purchased the equipment in spite of that he chose not to do anything at all so this individual got off with no charges at all. Senator Hammer while I understand you're frustrated I my answers can only be limited to the response that I got from the prosecutor and that was he was unable to make a case or a felony charges any other conversations I was not privy to and that was not the substance of our conversation are thank maybe can be taken up somewhere else thank you. Thank you senator flowers you're recognized thank you Mr chair just couple questions So even dignified the ammunition that. Was stolen as thirty eight caliber rounds yes ma'am the left over twenty eight pounds thank you appreciate. Rounds yes my. And you say that the market to then redistribution they. Resell it they sell it. For disposal. Four as a means of disposing yes ma'am so is that what you eat you the I have done so when you said. That. M. O. has been reduced. No so we we lease when I when a drug plan I alluded to we reduce the amount of animal we're not sending out the we're not allowing units to order the amounts of animal dead they were previously allowed to order Uh director pain and his deputies have identified an amount sufficient for training and emergency response and that is the only amount that those units are now allowed to order so if for instance unit X. has been allotted ten thousand rounds that is all they are that is all that will be approved for them in order once they reach that ten thousand capitalists they used twenty five hundred during qualifications they are not allowed to order any we previously did not have those type of stock up someplace. And the set up this system has been set up for recording yes ma'am. Purposes of an inventory yes ma'am so who does the input for that so it is done by it is done in quickbooks depending on where the purchase originates if the purchase originates at the unit level the unit is going to enter that into the quickbooks system if it's done at the central armory level then our central armor is going to make that entry into quickbooks and we're able to look at the benefit of that system is that it allows our internal audit unit and one leg audit comes in and does their annual reviews they can look at okay you say you we see a P. O. in a purchase order an asus four thousand rounds well what happened to those doubters road let me see where those rounds are now in your inventory control system in your inventory management system. So. I'm just trying to understand so one person. Is responsible for input in this quick book previously well previously one person was responsible for managing inventory within our central armor that is no and that individual kept a inventory as as director pain alluded to on on a system that with a high level of trust we no longer have that the inventory system for ammunition now is now accessible by multiple individuals across the department in order to have those checks and balances. This is very concerning to me as was said to me when this was raised to us. NO we have a lot of. Murders homicides in pine bluff. And I'm concerned and have been for a long time about the number of ex felons. That are committing these crimes and have access to weapons and ammunition. There's something wrong here. And I have my own suspicions about it but this is really troubling to me and to know that this is been going on since twenty seventeen. Are the guns that were issued I guess to your employees these thirty eight. And they've been collected and disposed of yes. Yes ma'am Senator those guns have been collected and dispose of it in our those guns or or no longer with when was that done. It should have been done in twenty seventeen. Should a member you don't know not not right off hand I guess I'd like to know what I like to know the history of of of of these weapons that are in the hands of the department of corrections we can all of our web weapons are inventory and tagged and we can get that information from our procurement section I want to make sure the committee understands this diversion was not something that we were aware of in twenty seventeen twenty eighteen when we believe it to have been in these she ate it we were not made aware of this diversion until early twenty twenty one. and based on a tip from a from another DLC employee is pretty set Mister chair one last question and this is for internal will legislative audit. Do you all receive a report back from the prosecuting attorney's office. yes ma'am. But you don't have it today I do not I can I can get that for you I'd like to see that in the lotus even in your finding you you you say it at the table here today that. A referral was made to the prosecuting attorney's office but that's not in writing here only thing you have in writing here is that the information was provided to the Arkansas state police I think the committee the legislative audit committee might need to review this further they are. Senator yes this is already brought before the legislative audit you just have been brought forward joint budget so a lot of these members this first time they're hearing it but I thought it is already took this up okay first time I'm hearing it too and it's it's really disturbing to me but I'd like to see the a report from the Arkansas state police yes ma'am the information that was forwarded to the prosecutor's office from the department as well we will get that to the member or members of the committee and do you know the name of the gun store of the guns Mistel. I'm sorry was employee had a job or had a business is a Johnson he he will all on his own he worked on a lot of weapons and produce ammunition but he didn't work for any an individual he just did it on his own Senator thank you term gunsmith he was just a he was a he worked on gun thing is that still I guess the file taxes on the on the income that he was seen we we get what now thank you bye. Representative wouldn't you got a quick question. Yesterday. Let me understand all this. This happened in apparently took place in twenty seventeen. Yalden give any information on it till twenty twenty. And that at that time. You did you say that you've had relieve the person in charge of Central armory who had access to this ammunition when it came in. What about the woman who had the gun and so the ammunition and grime yes the same individual. Is that the same part about the individual who so we don't everything was handled properly and at the Grimes you. They were told to turn in their thirty eight animal when we of moved away from a wheel gun they turned in their animal. Fully fully receded there were there was no diversion or any improper activity that happened on the part of staff at the Grimes you once that ammunition was turned over to the central armor instead of doing what he was responsible for which was again receding what he received from the Grimes unit and preparing that for transferred to marketing and we distribution for resale he. And I'll just be very bluntly of cookbook to make it look like the animal was disposed of properly. And ends and instead sold. But there was no diversion at the Grimes unit the diversion the improper activities happened at the central armory for a division of correction in problem on the part of one individual follow up Mr Clark is that correct is that what you all determined yes Sir that it happened into central office armor yes Sir. How many how many guns are there at the Grimes will it will happen as a how many. caliber weapons was all this ammunition for one caliber thirty eight thirty eight AM how many how many thirty A. revolvers the gel hammock or what will it to sit in the center of flowers question will of provide a comprehensive inventory of our of far firearms to the committee others like a lawful of any munition and and and that's what I alluded to our only we are not sure senator flowers were my concern is is where is the twenty eight thousand rounds today. How many have killed people in Little Rock Love Forrest City the baby servicing I mean this is this is this is totally at a and I appreciate what you've done center of surgery graves and your the divisional director. I hope you all understand the gravity of this and what I really do not understand is a prosecuting attorney not take any action on this is ridiculous that is on the front to the justice system of the state the twenty eight thousand rounds can disappear and he doesn't have enough evidence I thank a prosecuting attorney ought to be brought up before the judicial council and made to give a reason why he doesn't see this is this is a trend that's throughout the nation today. We're not prosecuting these felons we're not prosecuting these people that are consume these robs these in the smash and grabs and that's exactly where all this comes from I don't have the ammunition if they don't have the guns we're I'm sorry all right now do we agree with you but thank you what you preach it now hello all right let's move on Hey man. All right. Of that you review Ryan thirty nine. You're recognized okay thank you Mr chairman Mr graves of. You know what this started about this particular situation here it made me wonder about county and city levels also. Of ammunition and weapons that are on storage you know and and part of inventory of all these different entities and I don't know of any protocol or anything that we help each year that actually would state that we have a certain amount and every prison state police of county jails all that kind of stuff as far as I know I've never seen anything in black and white there protocol that was going from the particular area of leadership within that particular division I just wonder if if we don't have some problems if we don't have a at least a something that we can go back to and look at and say Hey you know we've got a hundred ten guns over here and Craighead County and we have a certain amount of you know ammunition but I've never seen anything or any kind of law concerning that Sir is there anything that you might could tell us about that. I can only speak to the the department representative Ryan I would just reiterate to you and to the Committee as a whole that we identified areas where we needed to improve our inventory management and under of the leadership of and director pain and our CFO we have we have made those improvements. All right we'll need to wind this down folks senator Johnson. You're recognized thank you Mr chairman I try to wind it down I've. represent wooden you mentioned a lot of things on my mind as well and while I'm not on audit this by any of my serving audit previous two years of my term and I'm very frustrated and and I and I and senator flowers is not just in your area as we see it in other places where we find wrongdoing it's not always criminality but we see a lot of criminality like this and and believe me secretary graves I appreciate your candor when you came in here and leveled with this about someone that you trusted that that didn't come through and and I appreciate you telling us that but I think we need to go back to where is the weak link here and you did your job and I think the State Police probably did their job just fine in against a prosecutor and they declined to prosecute well judge Isaac Parker was famous is saying is not the threat of punishment that's a deterrent to crime it's a certainty of punishment that's a deterrent to crime so I ask my colleagues to consider the fact that we're in fiscal session maybe we need to be looking at those people out there in all across state government that at least from the things we're seeing today they may not be doing their job and that their appropriation should be properly reviewed based on that so thank you for your candor and bringing this to this this is what we have to deal with and we can't do it without the great information that you brought for so thank you so much for for your candor and you're giving us a good information I would also like a copy of the information you're gonna get to senator flowers yes thank you Mr chairman will you never did format into a question but would you agree. Our. All right. That's not Scott Flippo over there. Senator Baker you said it's got Flippo C.. You're recognized. Thank you chair of the the question I have is. What was the procedure to move on from Grimes to the center armory and not straight in our. it seems like we're adding people to the supply chain. Adding steps adding expense and adding. Areas to lose this. We have in the Division of correction alone nineteen facilities and in order to ensure continuity of operation and consistency of operation we have a of centralized disposal procedure that allows are a procurement staff are internal audit staff and other leadership of that division in palm Love to ensure consistency of operation have the process. Proceeded as it was intended to do and as it was designed to do the process would have work and we have no indication that the process didn't work at any other location this individual unfortunately took advantage of is level of access to inventory and manipulate the process for his personal benefit. I guess the question has. We created another labor let later. By having a central armory when you have armories at each of your nineteen locations correct I would say is not a level it is not intended to be a level of bureaucracy is intended to be a level of accountability. Attention to that's where the failure occurs where the levels accountability is put in. Thank you for the. All right all right we need to wind this up we got two more. Senator flowers you got some real quick yes. Just at that I guess as a follow up to last question concerning the purchase of animal so each unit is able to put in a purchase order for ammunition from. Some vendor outside the department. Yes ma'am that is our practice and and what what we probably need to talk about is units that are large units that may have a three hundred correctional officers. It'll it'll take them fifteen thousand rounds to go to their of qualification each time that they do instead of issues so that's why we have such a large number of ammunition at those places because it takes so so what's to finish their qualifications so every time they do it is fifteen thousand rounds it at the bigger units is it do you use one vendo are our how how is how are the purchases made are they submitted for building or is it one company or manufacturer of animal that you all are doing business with yes no we we utilize we're was on the state contract. So you just submit a. Purchase order to that supplier yes ma'am. And that goes that's a direct link from of a youth local unit to the supplier yes miss green and and it is incumbent now on your new quick will recording. The local unit is going to put it in the quick will yes ma'am is it matched the receiver when we get the M. O. M. O. all that should matter that's so we're going to be accountable one no other club. Authority is over of the local units in terms of. Putting in submitting a purchase order yes ma'am are deputy directors have to approve it. So it does go somewhere before it gets to the supply yes ma'am yes ma'am thank you Mr all right thank you this the last questions Reid Cavenaugh I'll make a quick. Thank you Mr mine is just to let it go why do you use quickbooks for inventory control leave spent I don't know how much money on software that it should be looks like it would be actually be part of the software that's used by the Division of if although most of the folks in of the question or not but that is the inventory management system that in my entire tenure with the Department we've used and we haven't had any issue with utilizing the system for purposes I don't know the Cape of the inventory management capabilities of any other tools that may be out there for access by the state the reason I ask is I have concerns because quickbooks can be manipulated pretty easily from someone that's used it before there are easy ways to manipulate. What books and since we already have this issue that's why I was wondering and and and I think that goes to part of the issue what we have multiple individuals who are accessing the system and as directed pain alluded to we're not just trusting the date in the system we're looking at that purchase request and saying what was ordered we're looking at that purchase order and saying what was approved for purchase of we're looking at that receiver to actually indicate what was received at that location and testing all four of those sources against each other to make sure that the initial request reflects the with any approved modifications reflect what was actually purchased what was actually purchase reflects what was actually received on what was actually received reflects what was actually are entered into our inventory management system and where does physical inventory come in at this. Of it's going to depend on who initiated the order if you will if the order was initiated at our central armory for disbursement out to the site it's going to be receded there if a order was initiated at a particular location that location that initiated order would receive no I'm talking about actually does a physical inventory I'm sorry ma'am we have we have a internal audit section that they're trying of command is outside of our financial unit they report up to my chief legal counsel thank you. All right Mister dexter was great your excused we will bring you back after Mr Coleman does his report Morgan your excuse thank you Mr secretary. Rich Coleman will have the department corrections division of corrections community corrections parole board and the sentencing commission. If you identify yourself. You can start with the changes all right thank you Mr chair. I'm John Coleman from the bureau is a research and so to get started with the Department corrections here will firstly be looking at page two of your manuals. So this page you'll find a summary for the corrections administration shared services appropriation hi there five total appropriations you're telling about one hundred forty million dollars and initially I'd like to direct your attention at very first line item it's the county jail reimbursement appropriation this may look a little different than last time you guys saw these budget manuals because. Last year when I presented this the county jail reimbursement on a split between the Division of correction and the division of community corrections basically always been done here has been combined into one appropriation and the Division of administration Sir services sorry just department corrections and that's just these billing so when you see zero and the division of corrections division of community correction for county jail reimbursement just keep in mind that is has been moved to ministration search services there. So moving on to some change levels we have the department of corrections cabinet appropriation on page eight of your manuals. This preparations total just over a hundred nineteen million dollars for fiscal year twenty three with to change levels firstly the roughly two million dollar change to the professional fees line items related to the apartments medical contract for inmate health care and the Legislative recommendation for the regional jail line item look at the bottom of the first table there is eight point seven million dollars for fiscal year twenty three. Which is double the previous year's amount said this preparation was originally for relocation of out of state inmates in fiscal year twenty two and after talking with directions it appears the agency intends to use the amount in the legislative recommendation this year for various regional jail products projects sorry Mr chairman that concludes the presentation of the change levels and ministrations or services. Any questions. Seeing none continue on. However okay Senator flowers Ozark. This. If there is the item of appropriation data processing here's the role of across the board in terms of the budgetary. So what what why is that there. I Senator flowers I'm not sure why the FAA puts that in there if there's is you're there but if they would be. Unanswered questions I would order for that to them. I can hardly hear you sorry. You're recognized thank you Mr chairman Data processing is a commitment item that's no longer utilize we probably should just take it out of the manual sits just in their first oracle value if there were any actual expenditures in the past now there are special miscellaneous data processing but the one you're looking at now or zeroed out because they're not in the appropriation bills and they are not utilized by accounting. One. That answer questions Senator. Wait a minute. Okay you back on well I'm trying to understand. You know my idea of data processing is much of what we were just discussing about quickbooks and a whole lot of data inmate records those kinds of things so is that not in colluded in their budget and if it is where is it and we're talking about shared services. Seems like we find it somewhere. Yes yes Mr Moyer. Yes ma'am that data processing commitment line item is now basically been absorbed in operating expense now when it when it is appropriate you will see like I said in certain agencies a specific data processing miscellaneous code but that data processing is been rolled up into their operating expense. Good okay. All right. Okay Coleman you continue. I thank you Mr chair and the Division of correction preparation summary can be found on page thirty seven of your manuals. The Division has ten total appropriations totaling over three hundred sixty one million dollars in the first change level and division is on page forty eight of your manuals and that's on the inmate care custody appropriation page now the first thing to look at here is the capital outlay line item which is just over nine hundred seventy two thousand dollars for fiscal year twenty three down from almost one point four million dollars in fiscal year twenty two this announcmenet is simply for the purchase and replacement of capital equipment within the agency is needed. And the final change level and this appropriation is the out of state beds line item now this preparation has been discontinued to the Department out of state inmates being already relocated back within the state of Arkansas. So in exchange who's on page fifty of your manuals within the prison industry appropriation here we have simply at thirty thousand increase from one hundred seventy two two hundred thousand dollars and capital outlay for extending the purchase and replacement of capital equipment is needed similarly the division's final change level is located within the farm operations appropriation locate on page fifty two of your manuals. It's also a capital increase reporting four hundred ninety thousand sorry two fiscal year twenty two to five hundred thirty five thousand dollars in fiscal year twenty three and that's just that's also for the purchase and replacement of equipment is needed Mr chairman that concludes the division of corrections change levels look like you got one question. Charizard Cavenaugh all of your questions for staff no it's actually going to be for the department okay all right any any other questions for staff. At this time of. If a Mister Payne and Mr gray's come forward. He. Mr. Page gives a prevail all identify yourself just for the record again. Sullivan gross said Secretary corrections. What Wembley T. finance officer. Next bank director division of corrections thank you Sir. Review Cavanaugh thank you Mike so thank you Mr chair over here to the right thank you my question is really going to deal with jail reimbursement yell reimbursement. and I would think this is probably going to go to any member that's in here our county jails continually tell us that they don't get enough reimbursement to cover the cost. One county alone is five hundred and seventy three thousand dollars last year that they actually did not get reimbursed and it's not because you were behind is because the thirty two dollars a day that you paid does not cover the cost that they have to and Kerr the House these inmates. Okay that's what you and I have to take on because our doors and they and a lot of it goes to utilization because of the call with issues with how they can actually House om and the call that protocols. Is there any. Look from your department that you're going to try to find a way to reimburse these counties for what they're actually spending to house your inmates. Thank you for the question of the having all the department does not set the reimbursement rate we worked with the FNA who has the responsibility for setting that rate was just raised to thirty two dollars in the last session DFA continuously monitors are county jail backup populations with our CFO's office looks that whether how the population is trending there is also special language in our Division appropriation that requires the counties to annually report their cost of operation and that information is reviewed as part of the larger budgetary process so while we are part of the conversation we're not the sole decision maker in the reimbursement rate okay well we need to get at some point Mr chairs talk to the people it makes those decisions with these especially the reason I bring that up now is because. The artificially low reimbursement rate. Needs to be raised and it is going to affect your appropriation and your budget because the counties need to be reimbursed the proper amount of for house in your in your inmates and I understand that call it's created some issues and some back logs but it is still creating issues for the counties across the state. Thank you. Thank you representative all right the. Senator Beckham. Just sit in Flippo C. you're recognized. Thank you chair there's What what is the cost of department for Dave to have someone on a ventilator. All the department has a our medical contract is structured on a capitated rate so regardless of if I have a nineteen year old former crossfit instructor in perfect health verses a eighty seven year old with stage four liver cancer I have a hypothetically our contract sets out then we pay the same rate to our contract medical provider what was the cause for day to keep the person. Some of our cost per day right now is about sixty five dollars sixty votos que so why are we delaying releasing people the been granted parole. As long as we are we're we're hearing this not only on the issue that you and I worked on where we get together Is granted to pastoral lease for. Almost three weeks who happened the by the way I don't know if he knows he passed away this morning. but we're also keeping inmates the non violent offenders that have been granted parole. For months at these communities County. Detention centers due to COVID restrictions things like that they can't transport to get a process for release what were we doing about that yeah we're looking at your budget here and. We're spending a tremendous amount of taxpayer money holding people the the proboards should be released from. so there are couple things that come into play gender generally with the situation one is the individual's transfer eligibility date are parole board see someone six months out from there transfer eligibility or parole eligibility date that operationally the dates work the same but depending on when you were convicted you're out the transfer or parole eligible so even though the Pro Bowl or see someone six months out they cannot be released until they hit that date that's issue number one issue number two is that for many of our offenders finding a suitable parole plan is a challenge whether it is because they are subject to a residency restriction or because they burn the bridges with their family they don't have a support system or they may have had a system to where a sentence that carried them out to a point where they they've outlived their family so they don't have an individual to go to we have limited capacity within our division of community correction with are contracted transitional living facilities but we could stand to increase that capacity and that is something that director Brad shall not have regular conversation tions about well we work everything we possibly can to get an individual out on top and during my career we've actually seen a reduction in the amount of time that we are holding someone past their transfer or parole eligibility date but our goal continues to be the good an individual out on time the situation that you reached out to me about along with other members the two new. Ninety what we commonly called to ninety process which is our medical or compassionate release process is a fairly lengthy process it requires multiple levels of physician certification both within the Department and externally and then it alternately is subject is is subject of the parole board is not bound to exist except the release recommendation of the medical professionals post post decision by the parole board that individual still has to have a suitable parole plan that has to be investigated by our community correction division we also have to in that case work with abusing medical. transportation services in the event that that comes into play which it did I was not aware that he passed away this morning I am glad that his family was able to have that short amount of time with him outside of our facility please extend my condolences to them I know losing a child is never easy. Follow up your gun all right. Our region have. Yeah sure thank you thank you Mr Sullivan a couple years ago I was checking on the county level and basically we got about two hundred thousand dollars a year reimbursement for state prisoners. But it actually cost about one point four million to run that jail which you know a certain amount of that is our people that's on hold until it goes to court. But you know. Really didn't know realistically what it costs to run to reimburse for these prisoners until a couple days ago Asa center Diane helping Craighead county is about fifty four dollars we're gonna get ram report getting reimbursed about thirty two dollars or something like that in this break in our counties could we maybe. Put a track on how much it actually costs the House that and see what we can do on the state level to make sure that we're not disturbed the any taxpayer is up on the local level playing for all the stuff if you could find something for us please yes Sir will of work follow up with the association of counties they tracked that county level cost of incarceration we'll follow up well with them and get the most recent report to the committee staff. Well up Sullivan you know the thing of it is yes we know that the thirty two dollars is that is is low and we know we probably can't get to fifty for the first year or whatever it may be but we do need to look at that Sir because is actually causing a real burden on the county level we know that. Yes Sir thank you. Thank you representive Senator flowers you're recognized. I'm not sure if we hear this point yet on page twelve this transportation of juvenile offenders. All I'm trying to understand the actual budget twenty. Twenty one forty four thousand. Hello four four thousand. And then we have a. You. A recommended budget for twenty to twenty. Twenty three hundred eighty seven thousand. What what where's big jump coming from yes ma'am so by way of background one of the offices that was and while in office that was reconstituted into the department of correction was our criminal ten detention facility review coordinator's office commonly referred to as jail standards one of the jail standards coordinators statutory responsibilities is to serve as the disbursing agent for the state reimbursement program for transportation of juvenile offenders as all of you are aware of not every county has the capacity to House juveniles so they have to go to one of the juvenile lockups across the state. We get we're invoice by those locations and we pay I'm a per mile reimbursement rate to those locations you are obviously in twenty twenty twenty twenty one at the peak of the Kobe nineteen pandemic individuals in general we're not being locked up at the highest rate at at the rate they were in previous years also this legislature has rightfully worked over the last several years to reform our juvenile justice system to drive our lower level juveniles from entering entering those lock up type environments so between the legislatures of juvenile justice reforms and the impact of the COVID nineteen the request for reimbursements coming to my jail standards coordinator dropped off precipitously in and twenty twenty twenty twenty one so we our actual is were well below the appropriation level that we're capped at that hundred and eighty seven thousand and we continue and we are we have continued to see that drop off in the amounts of reimbursements that we are being requested from your cities and counties as they're transporting to juveniles across the state and that's because it so you're saying aye because the pandemic the difference in the amount but historically prior to the pandemic in in twenty twenty. So what what was the. The appropriations and the actual expenditures then this this this appropriation level has remained consistent since the department of corrections inherited the criminal detention facility review office from the department of finance and administration in twenty nineteen so it's been around at one eighty seven yes ma'am it was actually stay expended in. The twenty nineteen to twenty twenty yes ma'am. We we have we have not asked for any new money now I'm I'm sorry if I if I'm understanding your role question what are the historical expenditures I'm going to have to follow up with our CFO's office I apologize for the misunderstanding of what I'm I have to follow up with our CFO's office and we'll get that historical snapshot of what the juvenile remand transportation reimbursements were before we inherited this program. Yeah because I I'm trying to understand what exactly you're saying is it because of shared services that hike the the cost to the pandemic no the cost this is we this the state reimburses our cities and counties on a mob on a per mile basis for transporting juveniles to a juvenile lock up if it's outside of their accounting. Shared services transformation had nothing. I had no impact on their program we're simply it's all that transformation did was change to the disperse or is for that program previously DFA served as the dispersal for the program under act nine ten of twenty nineteen my department became the disburse or for that program but how the program works. Didn't change just the letter had the invoice was process going change and the only reason I see the drop of to the to the forty four for for last. Budget yes period is because of the pandemic pandemic and juvenile justice reforms as as well where the this legislature in this state as a whole has worked very aggressively to change the way the state approaches juvenile juvenile justice and divert offenders from entering that system so they're not entering the system at at those levels prior to the enact an acting of those reforms obviously the amount that the state has to reimburse for transportation is going also decrease. Well as well I don't understand why you have the same amount of that you're requesting prior to the pandemic if if the costs are going down this is appropriation only I believe the funding level for this appropriation is going to be set by the General Assembly and the governor and the FNA during the RSA negotiations. Thank you Mr chair I'm just trying to understand what what senator I'm I'm I have to stay and give you the last ten years of what the cost was with the appropriations the appropriation and in me with what we spend of course you know that but but I'll give you the last ten years we're. Of we will give you those numbers thank you thank you. All right. Representative will not think you're still in eighteen archer yes Sir thank you Mr German senator gross for the record. Why Kelly spent over three hundred thousand dollars of their taxpayers money to support the penitentiary holding prisoners up there I just wanna make sure that that's publicly owned. In addition to that you have six thousand three hundred nineteen employees. Of the twenty one hundred and thirty are vacant positions that's thirty four percent of your total. Of population are of or thirty four percent of your total approved or authorized positions. Thirty four percent of the of a hundred and eighty two positions have been vacant for over two years my question is how many how many positions did you give up under the new law requiring vacancies to be considered permanent position. Okay Sir G. it doesn't reflect that total of I'm sorry doesn't reflect that full total obviously many of those are security positions and what we of our security positions are thank you are exempted from turnover in the law we are aggressively working. They there. We rented. Approval for you all to be able to go around the law we are not exempt from it up so and I understand I understand the situation but I will know how many positions you all gave up and then of this hundred and eighty two the movement like and for over two years when was the last time they were evaluated I'm I'm um IHR chief is pulling our seven ninety six list now we could we review our popular our positions on a regular basis both Director pain and I'd get a bi weekly report we call it a position status report within our department that shows vacant positions by classification whether their security not security or treatment tied to their unit of assignment we I get the same report with director Brad Shaw when are division of community corrections we are aggressively working to fill our positions and we're seeing and thanks to the partnership with TSS into the legislature and our and our governor and of formulating and adopting the compensation reply and compensation plan that was approved by council in January we have seen a multi fold increase in the number of applicants that we're seeing for our CEO positions first part of December we were getting about forty one applicants of a week for our correctional officer positions last week we know how many positions would you sacrifice that you'd be of return back in. Under the government HRG pull in that number but I just want to reiterate we're not sitting on position we're continuously working to fill our security talking about the positions have been vacant for over two years and senator and those you've got some of those in the eighteen hundred thirty two security people the majority of those positions that have been vacant for two years or more our security positions that it is my Mr chairman it is a twenty five million dollar increase that we granted an ALC is that in this budget that is the there is no increase in our Personal I and are you able line item you made that up from you made the from sellers access personnel positions that you did not use because we are we we are having to navigate historic vacancy levels we were able to self fund that program through accumulated South salary so so you're telling us that you didn't really need all that start with no no Sir we needed every dollar of we needed every dollar amount of dollars I'm talking about the position we needed I'm not here I'm not trying to I'm not trying to call us in the agency it is dollars I'm talking about employees we if we can better use that budget and money in other positions which were or what we did to give them twenty five million dollar raise we can use that money in other areas of the operation of these agencies we've got four hundred and seventy six percent three hundred seventy six positions under Minturn Dan how many individual surrender we so I'll just we surrendered forty seven but I want to reiterate we do not have access excess positions we have been done on unable because of a challenging employment market and a compensation plan that needed to be updated we have been unable to feel our security positions but we also do not have access position follows well if you if you help enough to come up with twenty five million dollars where did all that come from if it wasn't access position. The position with the positions are not I needed because we have been unable to fill those positions and we were funds for those in films so you roll the money into a pay raise is that correct yes Sir thank you thank you Mr chairman all right. Representive eleven. Mr secretary grades question just thank the the questions of that have came up from center back represent Roberson Cavenaugh. Would would you say the issue really is more wrapped around the fact that. The state needs more correctional bads or is it that the reimbursement rate needs to change. So we do have we do need a capacity is a challenge for the department. We are wanted to of. Have the correct correct numbers to discuss with you our population of right now I guess by way of background we have engaged for almost thirty years we have a contract with a independent farm that does population projections for the system and twenty twenty our population ended with about sixteen thousand one hundred offenders we are projected over the next ten years to grow to nineteen thousand one hundred and sixty within the Division of correction. There needs to be a conversation about capacity within the Division of correction how many beds do you currently have the state level with not and not counting what is being House yes of the county within the Division of correction we have capacity for right at sixteen thousand within the Division of community correction we have capacity for right at seventeen hundred. So currently what would you do with those three thousand additional inmates. With if our capacity does not. Increase over the next ten years I don't want to be clear that capacity is more than just construction but generally speaking without additional capacity however that capacity is generated those individuals remain in we would see a increase in the number of individuals backed up in our counties. And so if my simple math worksheets three thousand bed short you would have to send those the counties currently at a deficit of thirty one dollars a day would be looking about ninety three thousand dollars a day deficit to the counties. If you don't have more beds. I intentionally do not do math so I will. I will and I don't mean that joke jokingly that is not my Edison in nowhere near my four day but generally speaking we without additional capacity we will see a marked increase in the number of individuals who are housed increasing populations. Result in increasing costs thank you thank you Mr. Representative Richardson you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair of I just had a quick question on page forty one I'm looking at you know the way I understand is that you guys are doing what you can with with little manpower right and you just got to an increase in salaries but it doesn't look like you're or you're over time what you run in an overtime right. Is not gonna be adequate it seems like you're asking for significantly less dollars and you're still going to run that same over time even with the increase in salary still don't have the Hey it's the student anybody's right so used to going to run over to so help me understand why that number so local so this is appropriation only we have already of this fiscal year recede a us had a supplemental appropriation increase for overtime approved for the Division of correction we've had to ask for those need your appropriation increases in appropriation for the last several years. Thank you. All right last question is Senator Hammer. Thank you thank you Mr. Can you tell me I'm looking on page thirteen. Three twenty one of the. Of the. Binder what was your claim savings through shared services transfers. That's if I'm interpreting what's listed on these pages right that's that's so Page thirteen reflects the transfers up to our shared services division our shared services this is staffing costs only the the cost of our well this reflects staffing costs I'm sorry it also reflects cost of our medical contract which in a couple of others that we rolled up in terms of the staffing number the savings realized from transformation I will have to follow up I apologize I don't have that number in front of me but I would reiterate that for us the biggest savings that we have seen from transformation have been the benefits of operational re alignment and increase coordination across our system I don't we have obviously experienced the most challenging period that any correctional agency has over the last almost twenty four months due to the there is covid regulations requirements that we are having to navigate having a coordinated system wide approach. As in perhaps been instrumental in improving our outcomes also operationally as we have seen attrition on our administrative side we're able to address continuity of operations and succession planning which was a concern for us over the last several years that we have created what I call some super employees that if one person leaves in my county shop for instance of my procurement stuff that we don't we don't have the backup center and succession planning to address those skill levels so we have reallocated those and resources to address those issues and also been able to ensure coordination across our system but we will follow up with staff and get that savings report to you but I'd like to get that and also I'd like to know for the savings that you're going to identify how was it redirected back into the cost of of running your department or do you know that you will we can identify the operational training changes that we have made in Our administrative unit reallocating positions weekend discuss we can identify the Commission internally and report that to staff okay and to representative eleven question well go back to bed capacity I thank I wrote down your bed capacity currently is fifteen thousand one hundred fifty is that correct. Of with the within the Division of correction is right it is right at sixteen thousand okay in the division of community correction is right at seventeen hundred and all those beds occupied or what's what's that what's right now we're about ninety eight percent in the Division of correction we're right at eighty percent or so in the division of community correction one of the issues that we did realize within the Division of correction division of community correction with the under utilization of our community correction centers is how those individuals were being sentenced you you had to have been judicially transferred to the Division of community correction working representative Dalby we were able to pass at fifty five in the last session which creates a admin transfer mechanism for the department that if an individual is eligible for a community correction center but they weren't placed in one of those community correction centers okay the department can get them that treatment and increase our big utilization all right and what is preventing you from being a hundred percent capacity on each side of those is that staffing or is it what is it that stopping you so within the Division of correction most of that capacity is tied to two areas one we are currently renovating a portion of the Tucker unit and as a result of those renovations we have pulled we have pulled down their capacity so in effect as we work on one half of the unit we can shift inmates to the other half we finish that have we can see if it makes back into the half that inmates were and so we have excess capacity at the token unit for that reason the remainder of our capacity is Almost exclusively tied to our work release program that is a conversation that I have been having with direct pain or what we can do to increase the capacity in our the bed utilization within a work release program because as we move inmates to work release within able to back fill those positions back bill don't the beds I'm sorry in our general population shin unit the balance of that is just to the natural turnover of the population individuals leaving our custody and filling those beds out of our intake locations okay and where we go with that is if your budgeted are if you if you are budgeted to operate at a hundred percent on each one of those but you're running ninety eight percent of everyone eighty percent on the other and I'm taking the position that you are budgeted not appropriated but actually budgeted money the difference what would it come up to and how could that be re directed to offset the cost of reimbursement to the county jails. That would be a question that I wouldn't be of of quick to answer that would that is obviously a larger conversation than than just the Department. I'd like to have that conversation because if we've got you budgeted and it's real money not appropriate money operate a hundred percent capacity and you're not I'd like to know where the difference is going at less I'm looking at it wrong and see what we could do to re direct that understanding that at some point you're going to get to a hundred percent capacity and you could tie that money up long term and I don't I won't reiterate are are up. Where we are now is not permanent position we will prior to the impact of our of Kobe mitigation efforts and our work at the top unit we were operating consistently in the Division of correction over over a hundred percent okay same thing in the division of community correction where we are now is not a permanent position all right and then I was asked a question one memorial you're given a ten thousand what's that ten thousand for a that is parking its the as part of our of treatment for the central Arkansas community correction center we reimburse the okay thank you also parking at the facility all right thank last question community correction programs I'm sorry transitional housing remains flat. If. Would there be any benefit to have a discussion about increasing transitional housing. Or is that dealing with the most difficult populations like sex offenders where you have a hard time finding placement with there being a reason to have a discussion about increasing transitional housing if it would create relief and to the out of the systems or those two totally unrelated things thank you those I needed to that earlier and My answers to send Senator back on the line of questioning having those conversations with director Brad Shaw now in our division of community correction about how we can increase not just capacity within our transitional houses but also increase capacity within our reentry centers as a shared with rep representative eleven when we talk about increasing capacity we're not just talking about building building beds within our our secure perimeters were also tall king about policy changes we can make like increasing capacity within our transitional living facilities and reentry centers and we're having those conversations. All right all right members represent of all you got a quick question yes I really quick to product ACT fifty five has it already gone into effect and if it has how many people has it benefit and housing benefit now. It would help of attorney Michael that act required will making on the part of the Department I approved the draft rule earlier this week it will go to our board of corrections at their next meeting if approved to proceed with promulgation we will then put it out for public comment our projections indicate that we will we have right now in the Division of correction about seven hundred inmates that would be eligible for consideration for community correction placement that number just by way of comparison is roughly about what we have at the delta regional unit in Dermott Arkansas also we have a pool of offenders quibble it to a nother delta regional unit that we could consider for placement in our community correction centers thank you Mr chair thank you representive. Well. We're getting there so hang on. River right you go to the question make a quick yes Sir thank thank you Mr chairman of Sullivan if you right now it's thirty two dollars is at thirty two dollars they were paying for state prisoners in our local correct and county jails that a that is correct okay if you don't mind Sullivan could you see what that would be we don't we're not gonna be recaptured all but it because going cost lot of money but it could we look at and say what it would cost to go from thirty two to thirty seven just five dollars sandwich seven calls well we can work with DFA on the projection. Okay and we're representing all of my staff of thankfully corrected me I want to clarified to represent Vaught question we actually have put that will out for public comment what I was thinking that I approved they know the rule that needs to go to the border earlier this week so the admin transfer rule is out for public comment public comment ends on February fourth so depending on the A. L. C. JBC meeting schedule during the fiscal session that should be approved this spring. President will your question. All right really quickly what's the backup rate right now back to the county jails can you give me a quick number and I got a follow up missed your we are real good meal and I know you probably already said that today I just wanna know what is going to look grace to. Unlock my phone. So the number is that I'm about to give you is department wide that's back up with the correction in the division of community correction our current number is two thousand five hundred and thirty six of that number two thousand three hundred eight four are on the backup list with sixteen hundred of that number sixteen fourteen exactly of a well what what we call ATC ready which is balanced so or supplies that number back up in the two thousand from we've let all these people go for covid and you've got all this room in your state prisons at the moment so again are capacity within the Division of correction is tied to renovations were making at the total unit large largely tied to renovations were making at the Turkey unit and sell Cummins and Varner awful yes Sir now we do have a fair amount of we do have excess capacity at the McPherson unit but that's simply because we're not saying women sentenced to the Department the Division of correction so the numbers there are also making the beds there are we we do also have a number thank you Mr I know you're trying to in all right all right members. The general for the barber correct you're excused reshape your testimony in your. Of members give you a quick answer. Of it looks like if you add a dollar. Math two in may to the county jail as eight hundred thousand dollars for every dollar so if you did it five will be four million dollars roughly. Four million dollar hit. All right members what we're gonna do is of. Hi I need a motion for the Department correction ministration shared services and the Division of correction recommend all in one motion we have a motion I have a second any discussion all in favor say aye any opposed. This call we're going to start with the community corrections and we do have a few changes in it all right any is the parole board and sentencing commission has no change that's correct okay. And on page twenty three you'll see the Division of communication appropriation summary the US of this division has a total for appropriations with the legislative recommendation for fiscal year twenty three adding up to one hundred fourteen million seven hundred thirty eight thousand ninety seven dollars as only one change level into the division of community correction on page twenty five of the manuals this is the residents cash treasury appropriation is simply a capital outlay line item here which increased one hundred forty thousand dollars to a total of eight hundred thousand dollars and the Legislative recommendation for fiscal year twenty three and that's for replacement vehicles and capital equipment is needed and Mister chairman that concludes Committee corrections any questions for Mister Coleman. Any questions for community corrections. Seeing none have a motion to approve I have a motion and a second any discussion. All in favor say aye any opposed it is approved. FOR six ACT. This is exec wrecked. All right all right parole board and of you just do that in the sentencing commission all in one. Thank you Mr chair for for and sends Commission have no significant change levels and that they are requesting to continue if it's fiscal year twenty two authorized okay. Any questions. Need a motion exec record got a motion and a second any discussion all in favor say aye opposed that is approved. Members. We're coming back at one thirty and we'll have the department of health. Appreciate the good work we are adjourned till then recess. Thank you Sir all right.