Senate Convenes

Senate with all the orders are there any request for leave at this time. Senator flowers. We have center came I believe in paying attention. Senate. What other request for leave. Thank you Sir. Many others. And secretary please call the roll. Boyd Bryant Caldwell Chesterfield Clark on leave Crowell Davis these Dismang Dobson English Flippo flowers Gilmore Hammer Hester Hickey Hill Irvin Blake Johnson Mark Johnson King Leding Onley Love McKee Murdock Payton Penzo Petty rice stem Stubblefield Sullivan Tucker Wallace. And at this time everyone in the chamber in the galleries would please rise for the prayer led by Senator Gilmore followed by the pledge allegiance. Let's pray heavenly father we just thank you for the stay we thank you for your many blessings lord we thank you for the way you guide and lead us lord we pray for wisdom today we pray for the ability to do what you've called us to do in your way lord we pray that you would be with the state we with our governor be with all of our elected officials for that you would grant wisdom and lord I pray that you would again just help us to to do the people's work and to do it in a way that you would want us to lord we pray that you would everything that we do lord you would increase and that we would decrease in order for you to get all the honor all the glory and all the praise we thank you for what you're going to do is just pray amen. For all. Ladies and gentlemen and galleries welcome to the Arkansas Senate it is our expectation that each of you will exercise proper decorum and govern yourselves accordingly during today's proceedings. That objection the rules will be suspended and the Senate will dispense with the reading of the Journal. The morning hour has begun. Are there any announcements or introductions at this time. A nine man secretary or other items at the desk yes ma'am. Concurrent resolution one by Senator Penzo to adopt the joint rules of the house of representatives and the Senate of the ninety fourth General Assembly Senate concurrent resolution one rules. Senate bill forty nine by joint budget an act for the department of Veterans Affairs preparation for the twenty twenty three twenty twenty four fiscal year Senate bill forty nine. Joint budget Senate bill fifty by joint budget and that the Department of Human Services division of youth services the preparation for the twenty twenty three twenty twenty four fiscal year Senate bill fifty Joint Budget senate fifty one by joint budget an act of the Department of Human Services division of developmental disabilities services preparation for twenty twenty three twenty twenty fourth fiscal year Senate bill fifty one joint budget Senate bill fifty two by joint budget. An act for the Department of Human Services division of child care and early childhood education preparation for the twenty twenty three twenty twenty fourth fiscal year Senate bill fifty two joint budget Senate bill fifty three by joint budget an act of the Department of Human Services division of medical services a preparation for the twenty twenty three twenty twenty four this year Senate bill fifty three joint budget Senate bill fifty four by joint budget an act for the Department of Human Services division of aging adult and behavioral health services in preparation for the twenty twenty three twenty twenty fourth fiscal year Senate bill fifty four joint budget Senate bill fifty five by joint budget an act for the Department of Human Services division of Children and Family Services preparation for the twenty twenty three twenty twenty fourth fiscal year Senate bill fifty five Joint Budget. There any is there any further business to come before the body in the morning hour. Not the morning hour has expired in the law now start the business agenda. Senator Dismang you're recognized do you recall. The general appropriation act for the twenty twenty three twenty twenty fourth fiscal year. Our members this is the appropriation of lettuce conduct our business just shortly I mean just in short it's got eight hundred fifteen thousand for the constitutional officers fun three hundred sixty eight thousand for the House representatives and two hundred thousand the Arkansas state Senate we have taken questions. Are there any questions for the body. Is there any objection rowing boat. Senate secretary role of a. and Bryant Caldwell Chesterfield Clark some leave crawl cruel Davis DES dismaying Dotson English Flippo flowers Gilmore Hammer Hester Hickey Hill Irvine Blake Johnson Mark Johnson King leading on leave Love McKee Murdock Payton Penzo Petty rice system Stubblefield Sullivan Tucker Wallace. any senators who would like to vote or change their vote. Nine cast a ballot. By a vote of thirty three kaemi's zero names. And to only. The bill has passed. Emergency clause adopted return of House. I will move to the business agenda Senator Davis you're recognized. Senate bill one by Senator fission see an act for the expenses of the Arkansas Senate for the ninety first General Assembly preparation for the twenty twenty three fiscal year Senate bill one. Thank you members this is simply what the title says it's the bill that will and pay for session employees and all of our expenses for session. Thank you. Thank you senator are there any questions. No questions is there any objection. Rolling about. Senate secretary call the roll. Rather we wrote about. When Bryant Caldwell Chesterfield Clark believe crawl Davis days dismaying Dotson English Flippo flowers Gilmore Hammer Hester Hickey Hill Irvin Blake Johnson Mark Johnson King leading leave Love Murdock McKee Murdock Payton Penzo Petty rice systems Stubblefield Sullivan Tucker Wallace. Do any Senators desire to vote or change of at this time. Sandline madam secretary casts up the ballot. With thirty three a. Zero may and to all lead. The Bill pass the merger laws adopted. And transmit to the House. Senator Davis you're recognized house bill ten O. one by House Management an act for the Arkansas house of representatives of the ninety fourth General Assembly preparation for the twenty twenty three twenty twenty for fiscal year. Members this but this bill and allows payment for the house for all of their expenses for session and also the house session employees thank you. Thank you senator are there any questions at this time. C. nine is there any objection to rowing that. Hearing none of madam secretary please role of a. Boyd Brown Caldwell Chesterfield Clark leave coral Davis these dismaying Dobson English Flippo flowers Gilmore Hammer Hester Hickey Hill Irvin Blake Johnson Mark Johnson King Leding leaf Love McKee Murdock Payton Penzo Petty rice stem Stubblefield Sullivan Tucker Wallace. Are there any centers have not voted or desire to change that but. Sam Nunn. Madam secretary passed up the ballot. Five thirty three A. zero nine and two on leave it. Bill has passed emergency clause adopted and returned to the house. Senator Hammer is recognized. Thank you ma'am SharePoint personal privilege if I may. Members from time to time walking through the parking lot and people stop they say they need a little help in a little direction because they've come to our capital to tour it I wanted to point personal privilege to recognize a couple that are watching today in the gallery. It is Craig and Julie Johnson who are here from Eden prairie Minnesota and they've come here to visit our capital and when I told we were going to be in session today they said you know we think we'll just stop and watch if I've got my information right at one point in Jewish life though she was a hospice patient on hospice bed she is here and they are here today touring and they made a point to come to our capital and wanted to visit with us and because that thought to be appropriate for us to recognize them and shall thank you for being here away from Minnesota they're in the gallery up here to my left to kill. You're recognized. Thank you madam president members. We will now proceed with adopting the Senate rules for the ninety fourth General Assembly. During our Senate organizational meeting last November to rules to rule changes were adopted are there any other senators who have a proposed rule change at this time. You're recognized. If there are multiple. We're going to take each one separately and both on each one separately thank you major speaking to proposed change to a rule twenty four. Correct thank you and madam chair with the chairs permission I'd like Senator Clarke Tucker say with me who's the vice chair of the Senate ethics committee on the chair Senate committee would like to do this together chair promises permissible please you are permitted thank you of members rule twenty four should have a copy of it wanted to point out a couple things for those you that attended the orientation meeting this and mark a large portion is what we discussed up there but there are a couple changes that would like to draw to your attention I'm or take a couple of them for the for detailed things. And being passed out is a copy of a suggestion that was made to us just prior to this is so let that get passed out to you before we start discussing it but in the meantime they'll be a couple that I will speak on and they will yield to senator Tucker whose honestly more proficient in some of the greater detail portions of it and we want to do this in a both bipartisan way but also we work very well together share co chair and I respect his leadership role as much as he respects mine and we'll wait for this to be passed out them. First I'd like to draw attention to page eleven if you would please. On page eleven you'll see highlighted in red and this is a word that was not included in discussion we had previously an orientation is worth substantially this provision brought by Senator Hickey as a suggestion that we put to work substantially in there because in the event that maybe somebody had to get up and leave your bathroom step out take call maybe testimony was going at that time we felt that there might be a case made that somebody could could on a point of technicality say that that person was not in the room for all of the testimony of the committee so this is created a little latitude from personal experience I'll tell you it was our previous experience that we would typically recess for people to take care of the necessities of life for take care you know catching up on their business however this was a suggestion that was brought and Bills Senator Tucker I felt that it was worthy of including in that so we do want to bring that to your attention the other thing that I would notice that because of the re alignment once the changes were made if you liked page five or there's a green one that is just so that as the new language was inserted that there was a reformatting approach and that's what that is about and then what I'd like to do a spirit of cooperation is yield to senator Tucker to come and talk about a couple other things the one thing that was handed out to you page at a time Page nine we'll go ahead and talk about on page nine one of the suggestions that was just brought to us amended to go before the proceedings is that where it says on page nine down there party I'm sorry about that chair may rule that a question posed to a witness is out of order it was suggested Senator Tucker and I agree that it was a good recommendation brought by Senator flowers or believe that we will in certain languages would say but must state the reason why so what it. I would do is set up the chair rule something out of order for purposes of clarity that the chair which state the reason why it was ruled out of order we felt that that was a good suggestion brought by Senator flowers and so on the floor we are asking that that would be included in the permit rules if the everybody would allow one recognize Senator Clark co chair to come and speak on the other points in and together we'll take questions afterwards circle. Thank you senator Hammer and as he said we're really just addressing the changes that have been made since our discussion at that paging in December so I'll start with the second change that was just handed out to the members on page seven. This was another suggestion from senator flowers which was a really good catch fire an excellent suggestion if you look at subsection F. in the middle of the page you can see that section reads that senators are discouraged from discussing the subject matter of the petition while the proceedings taking place and that the purpose of this section is that members of the ethics committee really should be like members of a jury they should really just review the subject matter of the petition based on what they see during the ethics committee proceeding from the witnesses and the exhibits before may not be subject to any outside influences that's that's the purpose of this section it does include language that says Senators are discouraged from discussing much of the subject matter of the petition with witnesses not by and large that's the way that it ought to be however there needs to be an exception and this was the suggestion from senator flowers that the claimants of the respondents because they're making their case to the ethics committee they really need to be able to talk to witnesses I had of the preceding so that's that's what that suggestion changes and apologies for the quality of the hand writing on the copies that you're looking at that's you might think I'm a doctor based on my hand writing only but not I'm not smart enough to to be a doctor but but anyway that's the language claimants and respondents however may discuss the subject matter of the petition with potential witnesses so with that in the last two changes that I'll address it and we discuss we've discussed this before in the ethics committee contacts an inmate at paging and otherwise but a lot of times and this we're borrowing this concept from a low of whether someone is guilty of something or not depends on what they do but it also depends on what's in their mind and the what we call that the mental state and so if you look at. Section twenty four point oh seven. Which starts on page five and goes through page six. This is a list of prohibitions that members of things members cannot do and every single one of those subsections there's the mental state of knowingly you might be able to do something but you can not knowingly do that why are new general counsel called the fact that in subsection H. we were missing knowingly in one of those subsections so we're just adding that word knowingly to be consistent with the rest of the subsections and twenty four point oh seven that's a pretty easy change and then the last one. this is on page two and and section twenty four point oh five if you recall this was really this is a subject of probably the most discussion and and petty at paging that Dan has to do with whether members can have a financial interest in any contract with the state if you recall the way the rule reads now there is no mental state. And there was some concern about that and I think there's legitimate concern which is why we're making this revision or the suggested revision what should to give an example let's say a member works for a huge company. Like well just use Walmart there any easy example Now that Walmart may have a contract with the state but this member who supports not the CEO but just an employee who works in a particular division may have no knowledge of that contract whatsoever without any mental state included in section twenty four point point oh five that member would be guilty of a violation of twenty four point oh five at that point and so I think there needs to be a little protection included at the same time if we only include the mental state of knowingly the concern that we discussed was you could have a business owner who might instructors employees go ahead and get as many contracts with the state as you can just don't tell me about it and just kind of bury their head in the sand and really they would be violating the spirit of the provision but if the only mental state in here was knowingly they wouldn't technically be violating the the letter of the provision so there there is some language that's used in the lawn again we barred from that and it's where someone either knows or should know about something so that's the language that we put in if you have if if you are a if you own a business or you're a lawyer or an employee or consultant whatever the case might be. And your the entity that you're affiliated with has a contract with the state then you're in violation of section twenty four point oh five if you either know about that contract or you should know about that contract so that's the middle ground to strike the balance that we are proposing so with that those are the changes that we made since our discussion of paging in a Senator hammer and I would be very happy to take any questions. Thank you senator Bob Corker and senator Hammer are there any questions for the centers. Senator Rapert you're recognized. Thank you Mr president. So I know what you're saying please thank you Sir. Thank. Sorvillo many of these out of the criminal activity. And only thirty seven. subsection the court costs about US senator shall not make an allegation. about the size of the ethics rules here and could be subject to penalty. I know the spirit of this is not the question the activation of of criminal but the top of the legal authorities thank you. Your your making allegations to further investigation by local authorities on the that's outside of our Senate process that we need to. Somehow notice any of that or with a vendor to sample if criminal allegations to criminal the legal authority so you know it's it's it's a good question and I. There needs to be a little bit of clarity because we've we've had some confusion about this over the last six months so what these rules are about are only for Senate ethics proceedings only it has nothing to do with a criminal proceeding or civil proceeding in a court of law a lot of times we talk about constitutional rights in the ethics provisions there are no constitutional rights you don't no one in here has a constitutional right to be a member of the state Senate now we do have a constitutional right not to be required to testify against ourselves that's in a criminal proceeding that's totally separate from the Senate ethics proceeding so what the subsection you're talking about on page seven that's only with an initiation of a Senate ethics proceeding only now if a member has concern about a criminal proceeding involving another member and you talk to a prosecutor or law enforcement about that that is totally separate from this and and that is not governed by anything in this rule whatsoever thank you thank you for the. Are there any other questions. A number of questions would anyone like to speak against the amendment. Anyone like to speak for. I've closed I would appreciate a good vote four the proposed rule change with the changes have been verbalized on the floor today so they would all be included. I make a motion to approve the. Questions for the senator is the adoption of the proposed amendment by senators Hammer and Senator Tucker. And at this time to take a voice vote all those in favor please say aye. All those opposed. Is have a minute passes. Is adopted. The staff will recognize. Senator Dismang. All right members we've talked about this I think when we were in orientation but also amongst each other for a for quite a while now as far as specific changes this rule is on is going to tell you what it does quickly I think you receive it you know a week or so ago and there's been one small change since you receive and I'll make sure to detail that the first thing is going to do is if you look in the very last page the striking by the existing language about campaign contributions and all that is to do is to move it to a different section we found out when looking at the change that was you know the reason for the changes I'll get to in a minute was that there was really no teeth for that I mean there's no one that was going to and no process to follow with someone had actually violated that if you remember this is our rules and not the ethics commission's rules and so to be able to have a process put in place it was moved to be under section twenty four point six which is has are prohibited contact the conduct and so specifically the changes that are made inside from just moving that language over is it adds language for including a pledge for a campaign contribution last year this was tested a little bit or maybe a session to go was tested a bit remember have established a website to accept pledges while we were in session I would argue that's probably a worst place to be and then even just out right accepting the contribution and so this would just make it known amongst the members that you cannot accept a pledge to you know for money that you're gonna be receiving at a future point during the session so that's what that language does the second thing it does is there was the word special in front of the election for United States representative it removes that word for special just makes it for any election for US representative we can have a bigger conversation about why that exist I don't know my goal was to make as few changes as possible with what we were doing here but again that's that that's the major components the rule change we have to take any questions. Thank you Senator Dismang. Are there any questions at this time. Thank you. Would anyone like to speak against the amendment. Anyone like to speak for. Senator which. Those stories that clothes make a motion to adopt. Thank you. Motion forces to adopt the proposed amendment all those in favor please signify by saying aye. The proposed. nine it has been adopted. This time I. Recognize Senator Blake Johnson. Members the as Republican caucus leader I would request the sponsor next rule change pull that down so it can be heard in our caucus. You're recognized I'm hopeful nine down to for. Still further thank you. Recognized Senator Blake Johnson. Members same as Republican caucus leader I would request the sponsor next rule change to pull those rules down so it can be heard in a Republican caucus. For clarification on a request that all four Senator kings bill be pulled down by the sponsor can be heard in the Republican caucus. I mean I. First. The the substance of the last two rule changes were brought before the caucus. Senator Hester was not brought before the caucus and your role changes have been vote brought for the caucus. Senator I'm not going to argue if you if you want to present go ahead. I'm a request to caucus not not vote for. We adopt rules is an eighteen the. Later two thirds of a record. To Adoptees the call caucus the man. Twenty six The. Yeah. Okay. Anything after that. But I mean we know the Senate rules we can amend the Senate rules that rule by eighteen votes to do that so I mean it's just a copy process so I'd like to speak against the amendment the proposed rule. All right to the center in just one moment please let me just get one third patient parliamentarian. And before we have any. Comments. We can against the motion are there any more questions for Senator Blake Johnson. C. nine seventeen ow recognized. To speak again. So my passage to have been a Republican leader running caucus. I understand what the difficulty is and how hard a job that is but he does two things the campaign one thing that that I think down here's a fair word for five I mean I think that's what people expect in government what we should do and I you know I I have no problem or issue with the problem discuss the caucus anybody knows me if I want to do something I'm more and happy amenable to tell you exactly what everything's going to do I was just you know appreciated the respect to say Hey why don't you come to the caucus before hand and do that and I would have gladly done that but you know I didn't do that so I think today I think I would appreciate this body to just go ahead and vote for the rules because I have went through the process I have been transparent I have been available I started this process all the And I would request that they be pulled down. Thank you senator John. Those. By Senator. Yes madam chair and just a point of clarification. Are we voting on a motion made by senator Johnson to withdraw these for rule changes. The motion on the floor yes that is correct Blake Johnson's motion is to withdraw from consideration for proposed rules changes by Senator Ricky today okay. I am by Senator Hester. Any other questions. Senator predator recognized thank you Mr president so if we vote today. And and vote against these what is the next step after that do they come back before us after the the caucus and later or are they dead or what's the process. They would be referred back to the caucus. I am. I am more than glad to let let these rules be by her heard before the caucus same Senator Hester. Number and brought back here later. Senator days you're recognized for it one more follow up questions with the next step be to vote to accept our roles moving forward. After this after this vote. And that is to be determined center these five ACT we need for recognize Senator Dismang did you have a. I just wanna make sure I understand we have a motion to withdraw or a motion to pass over. It is a motion was a motion to withdraw. Which is going to carry. I believe the different way than if we were just to pass over the. Okay. Senator Hammer you're recognized. Thank you measure of the first question I just want to check on what Senator Dismang said the motion is going to be for us to withdraw and not pick up for consideration today these rules that have been proposed by senator king is that a correct interpretation correct okay may have follow up questions please you may. The other rules that we have adopted already including Senator Dismang. Will be adopted and will not be held up by this though is that correct that is correct one last one. You get a patient centered on yep well that's my reputation that's my reputation and chair you'll find out. After eight years is the Attorney General I'm aware. Welcome to our world but anyway. Actually I would like to know the printing of the rule book with us having taken up what we have today. Bios passing over this is it going to delay getting the rule book printed. And maybe that would be a question directed to and if the chair would allow or could she give us insight to that please I would ask that the Secretary dress Centers question. The rule book will be updated with the changes today in primarily these are all ethics. Amendments that shall have I can send it since these are not opted and if if I get adopted into the rule book and we adopt a rule that today then I will send it to the printer I'll bet it'll take a little bit to get it together because I've got to put it. Okay if you have a rules meeting next week you know but this rule the rules committee meetings postponed a long time we have there's you're not gonna have a little bit print it our. Thank you. Senate making you're recognized thank you Mr president so it's my understanding in addition to adopting the amendments that we made today we will need to take a separate vote to adopt the rules as a whole. So by just putting the side does not necessarily mean we adopt a rule book which would mean. Those could be added later. That would be a separate motion if there is one yes thank you for. And that will take twenty four by. Recognize Senator Blake Johnson. I'm going to withdraw my motion to withdraw these I had requested the senator pulling down I will go back to to that motion so we can vote on them and and and continue in this process is Senator chooses to he can choose to put on down to bring on caucus or and and we can bring up at a later date or we can continue this process today. Senator Blake Johnson to clarify you have withdrawn your motion with regard to the center kings amendments but not with regard to Senator Hester is that correct. Jeff just not Senator Hester correct. Okay. Senator Hester says double down. Senate Bryan King you're recognized. To present your amendments. Thank you Mr president. Which rule is a first. the five committee members. Seven days thought five one three. The stills with the five bills in committee. Five votes some soaring Committee. It should be the second one in your sample packet. I got my mixing you say seven. Seven point oh five. Three yeah that's when you're on No bill resolution should be reported Senate floor unless by class A. B. committee unless Bob recorded votes that's the basic gist of it. I'm sorry senator Chesterfield you're recognized. Thank you senator Chesterfield center king would you mind to enunciate and your specifically so where you are yes friends all the Senate No bill resolution be reported the Senate floor unless under this code by class A. B. or C. committee unless five or more committee members were in attendance and five or more committee members while in a ten cent recorded vote on the recorded committee action pair voting shall not be recognized. You're recognized. So Senator Teague and reading is when you say recorded vote that would eliminate the opportunity for voice vote no includes voice vote okay still recorded it says here voting shall not be recognized we utilize that members of you know how many presenting or water this would eliminate our opportunity to prepare this for my interpretation from some of the discussions I had with that pair voting is not in committee is I don't know there's really record is in the Senate rules as it is so this is kind of clarifies that so you know if you're sick or something like that you know today social media you can put out I was going to vote against this I don't know that we need to actually have pair voting in today's world of being able to do that you have a registered back here that you can do that but you know it just clears up that rule right now the Senate rule for my interpretation is that there's a pair voting is not covered in committee so it's been all these things when we done it it's been all of these ambiguity thing so this would clear that up it does not include a sign and bills out of committee that's recorded vote. I guess the last thing when you're when you're being very specific on five members is the intention there there are times in session were busy Moran out maybe there's only five members in there for members in there that's been rumored that that has happened is that is this any time I think that's been a fact okay for any time when all that's already Senate rule only one member setting the remote to say Hey You don't want to call the roll yeah but I think it would eliminate the you know nine fifteen at night it would eliminate a lot of you know possible things that. Any appearance does not look well of walk in there there's two members you know we had a quorum and then we don't have a quorum and it would just say Hey you know we have to have five people say that doesn't mean that you still can't sign a bill out it doesn't mean any that it just needs to be there needs to be five recorded votes it would do the eliminate the other thing to have people do like they pass out there's no one there it's late at night or whatever and I'm using those examples and then there's only three people in there they voted out to just do a favor get it on the floor and then they vote against it may help and you know just has a more straightforward process to. Senator is recognized in any I knew I do know that we talk about these but I didn't get a copy meaning until last night so that's reason I have a question I think morning there was a copies of this sent out a month or so ago or something I think I ask for copies the Senate but if I didn't get it but I was trying to get the same I'm not questions of I mean what I'm afraid of when I read this is the good news everything that we do is recorded even the committee level there's only to committee two members of that committee everybody in the world knows it is very obvious that that's the way that's occurred so there's no more hidden secret meeting or whatever it may be because we decided and made a move to live stream what I am concerned about is for members banding together and essentially saying that is not going to allow anything we don't wanna vote on something so we're just not gonna show up Committee and everyday we're gonna have an excuse for someone made my I've got to go sit in public health all the ants are a committee committee committee somebody else's sick until again they can pretty much control what goes in and out of that committee with four members banding together it's a rewarding someone never had there they would never be forced to vote on a bill you're reporting them by not showing up to the committee and the other thing is that we had a lengthy discussions in the chamber over the last couple sessions about signing bills out and what that does is take away the ability for the public to have dialogue on the bill and so if we move to a place where something like this could actually encourages from not having the needed dialogue on the bill again with four members deciding they're not gonna show up to loudspeaker that those are my concerns and I and I appreciate if you could address the yeah it I mean as far as a meeting you know the attendance part what I want is five recorded votes so if you're you know we have four members in there and you're in the house in Runda bills and you want to vote for it in you know you don't want the other four to knock it out you know maybe we could amend the attendance card and you could sign that Hey I'm in support of this bill. You know I just think there needs to be five recorded votes in a committee to get it out not for recorded votes not three recorded votes not to recorded vote and I don't stand with the DO now today from when I left the disk you can obviously see that there's somebody not there but you know I mean I get your point I mean I think that's a valid point I mean some of these other rule changes I'm hoping it was going to address some of the stuff about things gets abusing closer that's another matter but if we want to mandate where the attendance and say you're you know you got four votes get a bill out of committee and for example you supported but yet you've got to be at a meeting or you got to be somewhere else or something happens then you know you can sign your name and say I support this bill it in the committee only need the four votes in committee I'm just my goal is just to say we need five recorded votes to get a bill out of committee. How that happens is the secondary part. Does that address you I know that's not the most perfect example the world it's confusing but yet and I don't want to be down some road where you know I make suggestions and edits whatever I don't believe there could be a problem because of the recording that the live stream that occurs now I mean and so that. Man I don't think that we need to do anything personally I'm just saying I think even if we were to fall through the adoption and I think we're going to create some issues that may have unintended consequences so the minute you and what you do move on you know and I've been down here you know every ship that need never really support never reaches the store you know so I get that but yet on the other hand you know there's also consequences of the way we do it down here and you get the thing of like there's only three people in the Committee nearby voted for it and listen Hey you know it's a bill that's not an issue it's no big deal I don't have a problem three people do it I just think that we just need to start to set a precedent that some way somehow in a majority when you have to have five votes five votes five people on record a vote that out of committee that's just it I get I get what you're saying I just wanna get back to having five recorded votes that gets a bill out of committee. Senator Hammer you're recognized. Thank you senator king I appreciate the intent my question is so as I read this I'm not sure that all that you're asking to be achieved could be achieved now because if I'm sitting in a committee and I have strong feelings about a bill I can ask for a roll call vote and that be done the the chairman has the ability now to put something on the inactive or forklift and I'm just trying to get a mind around well that's a separate ruled in activity for our. That's that's not part of this this is just five recorded votes to get a bill out of committee which which bill are you which one are you deliberating now to seven point twenty talk about now that. The other. Okay the second page five thank you. Senator Patty you're recognized thank you madam president I don't know if this is in order or if this is proper or not but. I knew that I know there's twelve others that are new to the Senate at least and I was able to get my Senate email turn on my side so I have not seen these and have not don't have the perspective of knowing what senator Hammer knows about the rules and so there's not a comparison unless I get the old rule book and I would just ask you this proper if it's if it's in order that you would consider allowing us to to caucuses because there's obviously a lot of perspective The New guys especially the true freshman don't have that I would like to make a informed decision on and I just don't have that perspective here today and and and if if it's proper I don't know if it is and if you would be willing to allow us to have that discussion in caucus I think that would be very helpful for me and and I don't know about the other Senator can't speak for them but just for your consideration. And I mean. I understand being a new member you know but you know this is about a basic tenet of democracy that a majority rules okay not a minority but if in Shorty and this is just a basic. Avenue to say five recorded votes need just like eighteen votes in here need to get a bill out of committee I think it remember you were on the city council I think convene urine you know and it's more constrained to little bit down here it's a much more confusing you know I mean I talked about some of these rule changes are in thank discussed I know almost discuss these at the orientation so this discussion has been out there and I haven't deviated from the discussion originally that I had it Petty Jean way back in December you know the thing about the caucus thing I was a caucus leader and one time I got my rear end shoot because I didn't go through the process correctly you know and I corrected admitted it and so per se Center Johnson doing that because I would've certainly done that or doing whatever I need to do to do the caucus first but yet you know. And we're here today I mean if you don't if it. Here's here's the thing Senator Petty you can come back up again I mean it's just going to take twenty four votes I mean so you know we can vote on it today and discuss it I mean I feel like it's been out there to not discuss the Petty Jean I feel like I have not brought this up I've been available to discuss that'd been around all morning so I feel like a vote the fails for that reason you want more time then you know we can come back again later but I just feel like this basic things that we need five votes to get a bill out of committee thanks Anderson Murdock did you have a question no questions Senator Chesterfield and you have a question. Thank you madam chair of the Senate came up clarity once the form is establishing committee quorum is established many of our votes are not done by police are done by a voice vote rather than recorded vote is this the end going to require us to have a recorded vote in every one of the meetings because when the quorum is established that allows members who have bills other places especially toward the end of the session to be able to go there is still no that they are part of a quorum and can be called that so we're doing away with the voice vote totally are we going to do now is that what we're doing we're doing away with the voice vote against bills out of committees what you ever recorded vote or not if you have a voice vote and there's five members there then you obviously know that it is passed I mean I understand you're not vote chaired and have a quorum at the beginning and it don't so I think that you know whatever we need to do we had discussions we talk about bringing some up when we just had written instructions on last amendment that we passed understand that that happens so if there needs to be some type of clarification I just would appreciate eighteen vote because I have talked about these for a long time is that maybe we need to say something about attendance but there needs to be five recorded votes either a voice sign in for roll call motion that gets five boats kitted out whatever we have to do to sit there and say or get it out is is. What I think. Senator Hammer you're recognized thank you senator king addition there tell me how this would affect it we're we're in the committee would start we got forms required the deliberation starters when those bills it takes an hour and a half all the sudden we dropped from you know we we drop down below the five level and the bill sponsor is done with the deliberation and we're sitting there what happens then. Any other voice vote to do pass. And there is less than five there is that what you I'm sorry repeat that I guess I'm just saying a real life scenarios where we're in a we're in debate and somebody steps out we drop below the five the finder standards right you're wanting five in order for to get out but bill sponsors done and maybe one the members stepped out to go run another bill or whatever and he says I'm done presenting and we're waiting to take a vote could we still take the voice vote and get out even though I think I have five members or for that member leaves and he support and in the bill sponsor leaves that meeting and knows and sees that situation we're all aware that we've been there need five votes to get a bill out then he needs to notify the chair the staff people in writing that he supports the bill that way he can get up and leave and be free what have to serve in the happens after he signs it says it and new information well that is he is once you sign that a vote that the same way we vote on something and send it to the House it's happened it's I didn't know that was in there that's your responsibility in you don't. Okay thanks but that would allow people to be able to be flexible and breed and do whatever they need to do and still vote and I get back to saying I just think that we need five recorded votes to get a bill out of committee one where one of the summer thanks indicating center Chesterfield you're recognized thank you madam chair to the chair to the parliamentarian. We have various ways of deciding what the quorum yes it's the majority of the membership or it could be the totality of the membership are standing committee rules please remind me is it a majority of the membership because of the committee that constitutes a quorum or do we deal with the with the totality of the body for the for. Five. So we have. If we have a quorum of five. And the majority of that for most elect the bill out that's not going to be five people so what we're talking about the is changing. Even more than you're saying because all we need is three people which is the majority of a quorum that's why I'm trying to get clarity on what it is you're really trying to do because I Senate rules say if they committee has five persons there constitutes a quorum it is not the totality of the body but only five of the eight. Am I making any sense standing by I think you know try to address that we're if you if you go in we've been we've been both chairs of committees and not had a quorum and let's just be honest we recognise quorum because we know members going to show up and we got to do business or business it doesn't matter he would allow say let's say you walk in there in your chair and committee and there's only four people you're recognized quorum there's not five people there but if the sponsor somebody if I'm running a bill in there I want to make sure that I need the support of the five people to get the bill out you need three of the five people to get be allowed but if you're requiring five of the five and I talked about that in the attendance part of it about amended the attendance part out to say you know. If you have four members in there and you need five votes then if I've already got Senator Irvin over here that's already signed on to the bill to support it then you know all I need is a four members present about for. Thank you senator flowers. What is answered by the parliamentarian. My understanding of the rules it takes five votes to get a bill out of committee now under armour. So even if you have a quorum. All right. Three. Due pass is not sufficient to pass a bill out of that. It by a vote to get out of committee. And I think there is confusion with that. And that's what the parliamentarian. Madam president to explain what it takes to get a bill out of committee. Thank you senator flowers for your question I would ask parliamentarian to addressing this question. You're correct it takes five members To get a bill out of out of a standing committee. It's always in order to question if there's a quorum any member can can a challenge appointment there's not five there but when the when the vote is called Five people. Have to be recorded before we get a committee report for five people we're on the do pass motion that comes out that committee. We have ways on the floor we don't we don't look into how how that. Heard but any any member out here can can challenge any bill that came out of committee if there were one or two or three people there There was the court to to to bring it to the floor. Thank you Sir Senator flowers for your follow up Senator Irvin had questions now recognized again Senator flowers. Thank you madam chair again. My concern is that language matters and I think we've had a scenario described by Senator king that's not specific and the language of this amendment to the rules changed about tracking attendance. As chair of a standing committee we don't track attendance. We we declare a quorum. And so you could declare a quorum so it my understanding that before any vote occurred on any piece of legislation we would have to re establish a quorum and at that point because we don't track attendance he would ever set but but a member could call right. Reporter so I cannot do business you can take you can't take any official action. In your bill but with less less than five but you can't take official action. So that my understanding would be that if this were to be adopted then we would have to re establish a quorum ever before every single vote on every bill because if they were not five there that we could not vote on the recall that right yeah but also if the past and we were would have to then track attendance and re establish a quorum before every single vote to guarantee that there would be five there be cut and then if not we would just have to adjourn and stop with the business if you didn't do that it could be challenged as a violation of rules by the member yes then we would we would at that point is adjourned and not be able to meet or hear any other challenge on the floor. See but the but yes member challenge that. There's no language in this proposal about a member signing a piece of paper saying they're supporting a bill or not there's. In language that was described by Senator king. If I could address set so we talked about this about resigning bills out so you know if you come in you don't have a quorum you're recognized there's a quorum as I continue say you only have four members there and somebody presents a bill with four members there needs to be of the other four members on the committee somebody sign and if you get the other four I mean I'm trying to make this work were you know you just don't shut it down because there's not five people there they can actually sign that I mean in the other we talked about the signing out of committee is in another rule so that didn't affect it so. I just like I said It for clarification on this one with all the the discussion I would be willing to pull this one down and bring it back again I've known enough down here when things get chewed on enough when it's not so I would be willing to pull that one down. That senator flowers any light at the centerpiece. Operable them you have any follow up questions okay. That is yes. Senator flowers. I don't have a questions is is going to pull it down but I would like to make a comment. That a member of the committee after that. Established. They lose a quorum a member of the committee can weather there is a quorum but that means that. The four Determine whether there's a quorum. Members of the committee. This one the point that. That have a poor. But the idea that every time a bill is is before the committee you have to have a quorum that none of the beginning of the movie. And there's no need to continually with bill add are determine if there's a poor. Thank. It was. Shall I. Let me make one last comment will move on sorry okay let's think of the flip side of that for one second why did scare nominee and it with that let's say you walk in and you know you have five votes of a committee to do it you know you have opposition that doesn't want to be get you have five votes and read that you know the majority get it out let's say there's only four members there and there's one or two against it but yet you've got three other votes run around somewhere else. You could walk in those three members could sign they support that bill and with the other two you can pass it out. So it's not just about allowance stopping trying to stop votes or kill it it's also allowing people to pass it. So if you have three members in there you're always only four members we obviously don't have a quorum. Your bills done if one member sits and sits roll call even though you have five people support it so what those three or two that you have you have to either sign it you could pass a bill out. So anyway we'll discuss that later thank you thank you senator king and to clarify for the body Senator king you have withdrawn your that's right for amendments and so now I'll ask Senator to number two at four AM and. I. Which is Senate bill eighty point has to. I believe. On the third page of centers means act a bill or resolution to not be called for a third reading and final passage listed appears with the calendar Senate a senator may be prohibited from placing more than one bill per day on the Senate business calendar. Thank you senator king are there any questions for senator let me explain the minute first. And I apologize that's okay. So explaining that amendment basically is this is my seventh session and every one six before that has been where the first month like today in this little different today because of appalling is that it's like seventy degrees and know whether any by the end of the session it's like a cat five you got bills run in here yet run in here and it just seems like it's been every session that the last thirty days in a specialized twenty days people realize the doors close and they start running bills. So to address that and I would say there's a bubble world down here in our real world back home any song watching DC people get tired of passing bills not knowing what's in it you know you have to vote for it before you find out what's in it this would slow down the process to go in the go isn't within seven Senator Wallace earlier back there is to try to even the flow. What we don't spend the first month of the session down here gavel in in at one o'clock in leaving at one twenty and at the end of the session we've got a full calendar build no this does not apply to Budget bills. So this just applies to our bills that you come in here and the Max bills you can have is thirty five now we know that several of you not bring bills don't knew that people went into things like well what we just limits number bills filed in this is something I actually I started talking about before I left four years ago and that creates problems too but this will just allow one bill per senator today. What that is addressing the is once again that we don't get here at the end of session that we're sitting here at seven forty five we can get done that day we've got a deadline coming up and we're just sitting here batching bills and voting amount that's not the way I do business corporations I work for or a personal business rubber stamping is is a bad way to do good government now most these bills or not there's nothing nefarious there's nothing happened but a lot of times there is an there's been cases of that. So it's about making the process where we spent and you come down here and you make sure I mean I filed some bills of our tow people Judiciary get ready I'm coming because of run those bills we've all had the gate if that been down here shut and not get bills on but we're gonna have that we're gonna have to House bills coming over here at the in its happen the last sessions that they're six sessions that I was a part of it can see and it's just not a way to allow people to do good business when your senate batching bills you don't even read on. And you can't read on. So you would sit there and go well in week two and three I better get on the ball here and start getting this down and get down to business rather wait the last session of the thing is it's very hard on the staff people. When we're sitting here at ten forty five eleven forty five whatever and they have to go through everything out there and make sure every corrections and then be back here the next morning. I want to get down to doing business where we do business the way we should out here in front of people and everything instead of being up here late at night passant things you don't know what's in you know you've got a bill in the batch bill you go my gosh I can ask questions because it's going to do that and I know we could pull bills out and stuff when you have that many bills and stuff there's no way to to read and actually know what's going to go on and what's going to do this is a change I can admit but hopefully it's going to change their behavior of not doing this thing that we get at the end of the session and we're sitting here passing bills vote on it you know you have to find out what's in it before you know vote for it before you know what Senate it's just not a good way to do business to be rubber stamping bills. Thank you senator for that Senator Hester you're recognized at the question Senator king is the problem you identified that I've I one hundred percent agree with the the concern that I ultimately have is members are you know we're elected by the people to represent the people I don't know what's going on someone else's District the strategy they used their elected by the people maybe a particular strategy doing going to do everything the last two weeks how do we account for someone constitutionally elected to be able to do business the best way that that they think is right to represent the people. A dog may maybe this five bills in a day if they all are aligned on the same subject. So you're saying if you run a package bill on certain into into I mean I don't understand the process of waiting to the last two weeks to run everything I know that people in the past I've had strategies to do that because it's easier if you want to narrow scope on your bill about what it's going to do or the or the consequences of it I mean quite frankly the easiest thing to do is run it into in with a bunch of other bills at the end. I agree. More than once Lucian was not your strategy but it could be another member strategy that they feel is best most appropriate represent their constituents and I think as a body and what we do with the people that we don't come in here and batch Bills and and vote on forty three bills or twenty seven bills or whatever you can even though you can pull one out all right there's no way to be able to read that and actually know what you're doing I don't do that back home and I don't think that is a body should be had something we do down here once again what a everybody sits and says and I know it's a big thing to swallow it's a totally change to have to do that because I'm in the process of running election bills to be down here and run three or four at one time I get that but I also know the value I mean I'll give you the example I mean photo ID took me twelve years to finally get it on the ballot and passes you know church protection act there is another thing there was a value of going slow in the process and think about situations there's a bill passed last session that small town police departments that were working well and doing great now have been done away with now they're having to make major changes of everything they've had to do because things roll down here there's been the various things happen with Roland bills down here it's just not a good way to do business to represent and you know if you wait to the end of the session and it we've all had that you wait in the session you don't get a bill the gate closes then you come back two years and you know it's just like I was me and my brother were two different personalities one of us was a lot of trouble and raise a lot of Helen sent like that my dad would tell the one you know we're not gonna learn your lesson to you learn your lesson you know forcing my brother did but that's a joke by the way I have a sense of video but I'm just saying you know what if you learned a lesson you're going to sit here week two instead of coming in here it makes no sense at all for the people and it's not justified to come in here and gavel in at one o'clock and at one twenty we're going out. It in at the end of the session you're running through everything like a flood gate. It's just an attempt to do that and I would have asked the body to again please stand when you're asking your questions so that way okay and I believe I've got paid. Thank you madam president. Sure a lot of your first first half of this works and I think a lot of work to try. I can't. Our way. When we started. State in the case of these. Rule changes individually instead of as a back. And therefore. You're required to present for individuals on the floor right now instead of one I don't like all this bills and I'm afraid that this change would encourage somebody. Three or four entered into one bill rather than to have them separated out for optimal for what I like and not what I don't like and so how would you address that concern that somehow this might. Encourage packing to merge into one bill. Because of the limitation on all present I think that's a good point I'm glad you asked that I think would actually help you make break up on this bills because you could vote against it as an on this bill anyone something fails as we know we all have to go back and redo it develop a different strategy any but come back and piecemeal it I've access to do that with some election bills so to answer your question this would actually help that if you don't like ominous bills and it does because it's got too much in it it makes a comeback and piece it together bill the Cadillac like Johnny Cash did a piece of the time or it could be that on this bill it you have no problem with it and realize that you need to do it. But I'm just saying my thing is is I've been down here every session everybody gets it in and they complain about all these bills to complain about this the port the amount of burden that we put on the staff people is you know I I just it really brings me a problem to do that and expect them to do that we have the code revision commission and has to go back because everything is so good so flood gated through. So I wanted even flow is Senator Wallace with the sports or not to use the correct term trying get even flow and people manage the session and even flow there is eighty percent of these bills are seventy percent of these bills ran at the and that could be run next week. But everybody in their nature waits down here to do that. So with this actually would help that situation and my question is since you've been down here before everybody complains about it and no one does it so I'm stepping up to do it and if you don't have a solution to it then what is your solution to stop in this process that everybody complains about. About all of the first major of some other question would be is it doesn't seem to. A separate report House bills and Senate bills so. You could only present one Senate bill four one house bill or would house bill not count towards that limitation however that no I mean I think to slow the process down down here and properly vet bills and have a process we watch that we don't have the situation that were devastating small town police departments and put in those bills in in that situation then yes will slow the process down this actually know what we're voting on. And be able to read it and have a much more process that you can swallow every day. I don't want an appetizer at the start in a western Sizzlin by fate I have to eat at the end. I thank you might. Senator Dotson you still have a question for Senator game thank you madam chair I will new here in the sand I'm not sure if the Senate business calendar is separate from what the House bills are but does this include you can only have one total bill like House or Senate in one given day. Yes. Okay so thirty five total bills would be on the calendar any given day at any given day there would only be thirty five bills from here either house or Senate and understand I mean how many bills if we have a ninety day session how many bills are you have you have a bill every ninety days no I mean I know it's hard to think about this reality is if you look back I mean the house did you run each day I mean a total session went down the floor twelve fourteen some people only run three or four some people are in the twenties you have a sixty seventy eighty ninety degree session it's not going to limit that ability. So unless you're with if you like if you plan on running ninety bills they not say it's gonna be an issue are you at all concerned this would extend session past ninety days you know that that was brought to that was brought up the only thing I will say is if there's been one thing indicative every session that I've had is that this thing happens that there's this blood of bills at the end the one thing I will also say he is we have to vote to extend the session to seek from sixty days correct is that right. So you know. We vote to extend the session when we get down the and everything if there's one nature about this everybody's ready to go home the people are ready for us to go home you know this would be sent a message to everybody to say you know what don't sit around here for the next two three weeks and let's not do anything let's get to work and get do the business of people let's don't just sit here and work twenty minutes and then be up here for for half hours later. Thank. That didn't know that senator Hammer start. Thank you ma'am chair so here's the scenario concerned about Senator king I'm working on a package right now this could be broken up to date Bills you on on this bill so we're going to do yeah I would do a bill that means I've got to wait and file one bill a day for eight days in a row which means I better go to the committee a different time or as opposed to because of some of the other roles that are being proposed why why to me I think that would be a cluster that would cause a logjam on necessarily because we're all responsible for managing our own issues and bills when we come down here what I'm afraid of the unintended consequences is it's actually gonna log jam in some of the committee do you agree disagree or why thank you well the Committee part is separate so basically in one way it could log jam things I will say what you said about shall use example photo ID in election bills I had when we started doing these all the way back in two thousand seven. These raw in federal court cases and if you go to election law in federal court cases even though we weren't a plea pre clearance state that get court approval we had to go through all type of preparation there is also other bills that follow that so I fully understand that but once again it is allowing you to slow the process down were you actually know what's going to happen I mean we passed bills out of here gun bills and not know the unintended consequences the slower it goes the better job you do. As a farmer when we work cattle we don't just let thirty and forty go at a time to for our best way for cattle herd you know is to do one at a time in our business it's not to walk in here and look at every proposal and everything you do because everything we do and the value of it same time it's just going to be two years most generally before you can change it back. So slowing the process down in this thing is respect for the people it's respect of the members and I know it has consequence but the other intended consequences is the faster you go in the bigger package you do and the more you do the less you can find that you find out later was unintended consequences and I'll say that I learned that myself. Thank you senator king and for the body to know if you make eye contact with me or know that you have a question I am making a list and if you want to waive off that list make eye contact again come give me the. The no question I have ninety five center dismaying followed by. We need these waiver may also send a Murdock. Wait in the office and the Flippo. Thank you madam president I like to move for me to consideration yeah I agree or eight oh two and was at seven oh five. Yeah. I believe that okay we'll. For consideration for you know social eight of two. And I agree with me consideration is not entertain would have to run the chair in order that the problem. What then you would have to really question okay I to what I'll make a motion to pass in this vote on this bill that phone goes okay I make a motion to pass on this. One bill per day. Number two Senator came. You're asking just for the Senate rule change for. Eight point zero two that's correct. I still have one outstanding still have two outstanding to ask me. So would anyone like to speak against. Senator Dismang you're recognized. Thank you didn't answer questions thank most more covered I mean the one thing that I just don't want to do is take away from our authority of senators most to you in this room are citizen legislators I am I have a job outside this place not cram everything I can into the weeks leading up to the session of those that don't have jobs they can be here doing whatever it is they want to do but for me I need to be here I need to be able to be committed to be here and it will take me a little bit to file a bill this is the nature of who I am because I've got a job outside this building that that takes my attention and demands my attention and it should have my attention second I do think we career creating a scenario that we're giving the House leverage over the Senate I understand that we're saying only one member can carry one bill well then we're asking are we going to carry a house version or Senate version whatever it may be and I just think we're taking away our authority as senators bill's going to be given to members that are running bills that day for house members of that house bill being re ran the same member can't run another Senate bill to fight the same day I just I again I think we're taking away from our authority as members here in this chamber I understand the point of slowing it down and one thing I would challenges if everyone or anyone is concerned about any bill that is brought as a batch you have full authority as one person in this chamber to pull every single bill out of that batch you have the authority to it did require a rule change today it will happen if that's what you want to happen again I appreciate the intent I I completely agree on wanting to make sure we understand what's in the bills making sure you read the bills and you have a responsibility to do that it may not your time isn't limited to address in the chamber sitting in the committee it's also outside this chamber it's when you're sitting in bed at night ready to you know and that's your nightly reading it's in between me it's making sure that you're caught up on and being present mentally by reading the bills as they come before you but but. That begins speaking against the bill I appreciate it of a. Thank you senator anyone wishing to speak for the bill. For them and. All right anyone to speak against. Senator. Senator Blake Johnson. Members again hours presented with these with these amendments yesterday and I could not call you to caucus and these are not present made before and and prior in orientation and I would request that a Republican caucus vote against this. One wish to speak for anyone Senator Stubblefield rise. Thank you. That the ninety one No one to the well however at that time Senator Flippo made a motion Senator came within the well there for that motion was in front. Senator Stubblefield has made a motion to. Many questions all those in favor Senator Stubblefield motion signify by saying aye hi opposed. The ayes have it cold or call the question. The question on the table is will be a voice vote. For senator kings Amendment or oppose all those in favor. I've Senator kings Amendment signify by saying aye. Hi all those opposed signify by saying name. The Amendment has failed. I'm sorry Senate center Chesterfield might arise in state. President. Thank you senator Chesterfield. Senator Teague you're recognized for your third of four minutes okay I want to do the one in back taxes I'm gonna skip over the other one because of the snow the result of that more time was on Thursday so. Thank you clarify are you withdrawing the third one is not going to I'm gonna withdraw the third one okay the third one is withdrawn. By Senator Teague is moving to the fourth. Senator Teague you're recognized. Okay members this deals with members that back taxes okay I feel like as an example public cleaners pursing we should do is fire taxes we expect the public to do are paid our government functions do I understand that people get in situations arrears and have to have payment plans have been part of that process and helping people get it DFA to their credit even under two administrations that I dealt with was good to work with in most of those cases so but as examples public leaders we should set a higher example so if for example if a member owes back taxes even if they have a payment plan set up to those back taxes. That those per diem instead of per diem payments that you would get just like we would get this week that would go to apply to the back taxes owed by that member. Thank you senator king of any questions questions Senator. Yes but we're public official. Well what I'm saying is if you owe back taxes it's almost like child support if your child support then they may garnish your wages I'm just saying aye a Senate body if you owe back taxes and you even have a payment plan. Then we expect to cast Jackson do business off that you know we should pay our taxes and set that example so if you down here you in somebody owes back taxes to DFA the in any of those per diem payments should go to pay those back taxes to the paid in full before you start collecting. Eight point. DO. Pay your back tax the. What. That's right I think is an example we should set an example that if we owe back taxes then we should pay that per diem and make sure it's paid in full. Senator Hammer you're recognized. Thank manager for record I do not owe any back taxes nor do I know that. I want that on the record for at all secondly I'm just wondering and and maybe some of the attorneys in the room can speak to this but I'm questioning the constitutionality of whether we can do this number one number two would this be better running legislation that as a rule because I'm just thinking of the what would be some of the legal challenges that would occur we were passes rules some I wish to apologise check with anybody in the legal realm as far as those issues I just expressed my visit with the Senate Senate legal staff about this I talked about this at pity Jean in this is been out there and I actually made had a discussion with the FAA about that and see if they had their initial discussion was that they can basically garnish anything so they didn't see any problem initially on per diem but you know it could be clarified. Vaught manager. If they can garnish anything then the mechanisms already in place to recover the money from a senator and is anybody doing this on the House centers it's just going to be on the Senate thank you it's just gonna be in the Senate and I mean on the legislation part as you know it just takes more of a process I'm just starting out here in the Senate body if you remember me I filed for disclosure bill several years ago and they get killed down the house I'm not saying the mechanisms changed or whatever sent I'm just saying it's Senators if we're going to walk in here we need to make sure we paid our taxes first. Before we start collecting taxes off the taxpayer's. When we have not paid our taxes. Senator Flippo question. Thank you madam president Turkey I guess the question I have his per diem since that is technically a reimbursement for mileage lodging meals expenditures or to to reference like you would be eligible to join her salary. Versus per diem. I mean I think the salary part I mean my thing is on per diem you know. I think it's ethical I mean if you do salary then but if you want to run a rule that says salary then run rules says salary I've said per diem if I mean I've been out here since Petty Jean talking about this with per diem this is been discussed about and if you want to run one a rule later on salary this says that then you're more welcome in the you know would you be you know open to the prospect of changing will perform other matter by the president might be recognized for a question. Knowingly backpacks I mean there's there's certainly you know you celebrate or lawnmower or something that it's it's it's not on the possibility that somebody could taxes and just wasn't aware of it I don't think that's all I think that's totally possible but if you didn't you so the you bought a trailer didn't pay the tell you no lies taxes on that then that comes up then walk over pay it the next day you collect pretty on or you go past that morning click party on that day this is not that hard to figure out I mean if you owe back taxes then you ought to you know not be able to click per diem checks taxpayer's income up here do business it just sets a standard out there with people our schools and everything operates on most this band we've all had our backs against the wall I bet my backs into you have mistakes things come up that's not what this is about folks it's about abuse of a system that we expect that we have to start this body we have to expect the people to pay their taxes on time. For us to collect a check they need to be committed if everybody waited and everybody got men and like I said. I've had my back against the wall I know that it's not about be no down somebody but if you're gonna come down here do business of people and you're going to cast a check this week from the taxpayer's you know what that they have already paid their taxes when I think you should make sure you pay yours. From Exeter king I guess my question was is without the more purple to look at salaries person for them and I was thank you Mr president and you had been at since Petty Jean to bring up a different rule do this in this issue's been out there you're more happy to do that. Thank you senator. I would encourage body we've got a couple more questions but as you're making your questions and as entertaining as answer questions do I we do have time for those for and against statements to have questions and answers as opposed reporting and statements during that time Senator Dismang you have a question and just resume because I don't know Two questions first is can they garnish salary now the the state centers out I don't know the answer to that did you find my answer from DFA down there was that they said that we pretty much Guard can garnish anything so we didn't see a nationally that there was a problem with them so they can garnish salary as it stands right now with or without a rule my understanding is and if you had past experience when they come to garnishing day they typically don't have any limits and the more specific on the reimburse and it because it's not Pitsch reimbursement actually think there is either I think. I don't believe that they're correct they can garnish your reimbursement because it's not pay and only pay is gonna. That may be of a possible but I had that conversation and like I said of a discussion out for since Betty Jean and so I understand that I I didn't catch as part of the G. and also I think all of us thought it was in a in a working phase mode and I mean again I didn't get any this is a last night and I understand that I'm not saying that I'm just saying that everybody is saying I just come up with this not been just discussing this for a long time. Thank you senator Patty a recognized. Along the lines of what Senator Dismang says hi. Relatively positive that is not considered disposable income that is subject to garnishment I'm not saying that the concept of of we need to pay our taxes first does need to be addressed I I one hundred percent agree with that we do need to be leaders and set the example but I don't know that this is the right vehicle for that because somebody somewhere with the judge or an attorney is going to at some point challenge this when it's outside of our control so I think while I do respect I did find some just real quick research some some bill our comment about it was not disposable income subject to garnishment so not sure if the L. R. and and the F. and I are on the same page but I I doubt. In my mind. Brief discussion and and research here that we can do this legally. We have a have an attorney general as the the president here so we may get a different idea later but for now I I have reservations this is possible from a legal perspective I'm not an attorney I understand him preferring ever question I mean you had a body that you saying since the senators that took away their laptops and did all those things is those legal or not maybe they were needed that thing but you know what here's here's the situation I mean what's the solution it's just like the other thing about slowing the process down into this ever complain about you know once again everybody complains about it it's a problem and there's no solution to fix it I bring these solutions out and say and you know what I think is members we should expect that to start this body is dependent on people working and paying their taxes on time schools have to open with people paying their taxes on time we have payment plans we need to set a higher level a standard that we need to make sure our taxes are paid before we collect take trips do everything else off the taxpayer's and you know it doesn't cover mistakes groups bad judgment and that that's the minor things but what is your plan. To address it thank you thank you senator I have I think we do have a question. Senator Teague and I've been out takes you on some of this stuff I would ask if you would to to would you consider pole in this town for more reasons than one I believe that our membership here. Overall we agree with the premise of what you're trying to do we believe that of the character this body should be that however there are multiple problems we know within that I agree with that what some people said as far as the per diem the garnishment on that. But also if we could do this as legislation so that it was cross the whole the entire constitutional body. Try to figure out a way to do it with salaries and how to direct the affinity so that if someone had back taxes they have so long to establish a plan with them we also need to know that in the event that if somebody's not complied with the terms of the plan then then there needs to be an Avenue at that point so that they would do garnishment. Under your rules that you have to say that is that either that you have to verify that the back taxes have been paid or that the senators has formally engaged in this state approved tax payment plan. Just because they've engaged in it doesn't mean that they're following the terms of it and then I can also think of a lot of additional type stuff that we would need including legislation I mean personally I committed to giving my advice on that the. You know we'd also probably need to look at the members that own the majority interest in some corporations or businesses to make sure that we want to include does and then we also need to figure out black in the event that a bankruptcy was done that's going to change the legal status on whether or not possibly a collection could or could not be done so we would probably need to weigh all that out in legislation so again I agree with the premise of what you're trying to do I just think that we need to try to do it within legislation to make sure we get it all corrected all thought I and I would say to you I mean I understand that but you know we've had legislators even way back when I first came in that abuses process and use their position to You know abuse this and I think that is an abuse if you're habitually and not paying your taxes and your total expectancy else we cannot open these doors the people don't pay their taxes on time and that's the first thing example we should set and everything that you just said you can follow on after this once again nobody has ever stood up and said something any we need to address that I felt like it should and do it and every time I come up with disclosure bills and all that and there's always these reasons why and everything and I get that and there's a lot of mental G. it but the reality is either you want to address it and start addressing it instead of standard and if you want to run those things to do those things later than by all means have avid the month issued here today is I've discussed this I put it out here it's once again everybody agrees or problem but no one offers a solution and nobody's done anything up into this point and I'm gonna stand up here and do it I told people back home when I was going to do and you know what I'm gonna come down here and do it that's my first point. You're recognized for a job. Just just clarification it takes you about this prior to this meeting so you said nobody. I would like to clarify that I discuss is how I mean nobody I mean he was texted me and I I responded back but I said I started this process back in Petty gene this is nothing I did talk about until my people back home I mean you're more welcome to do what interest this and take that on but I tell people back home what I was going to do this issue was a big issue that people overwhelmingly across Blue Cross expect us to do and you know what I think we just need to pay your tax on time if you've got a different plan we need to do it thank you senator king. I would say I'm ready to make a move if nobody's going to questions I mean we all know how we're gonna though I just make a motion right can I make a motion to to just go and consider it right now. This anyone. I make a motion and then we'll ask anyone needs to speak for or against okay. Anyone against. You have a question. I have a motion to pass at the proper time. All those in favor of the motion to do pass please signify by saying aye. All those opposed. Motion fails. Thank you. Amendment helper docs out now recognize Senator Penzo. Madam president I move the adoption of the Senate rules of the ninety fourth General Assembly Include amendments adopted during the November tenth twenty twenty two organizational meeting and amendments adopted today. For clarification Senator Penzo motion is to adopt the ones from November as well as the ones earlier today the Hammer Tucker amendment as well as the Dismang and. Correct. Incorporate those into the Senate rules. Is anyone wish to speak for or against. C. nine all those in favor signify by saying aye. Any opposed. It is about. Madam president I move that the Senate ethics rules become a standalone document separate from the Senate rule book. The motion is that the Senate ethics role become a standalone document separate from the Senate will vote. Any questions Senator Pitsch you're recognized. Thank you madam president can you elaborate on why or what this accomplishes. Usually the of ethics rules are going to be changing more than the the actual Senate rules so that we only have change one or both consider reprinting to rule books there is a a change made by the follow up is it going to be the same threshold on amended. Yes okay five minutes before the beginning and then you're saying once or adopted by thanks. Any other questions. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Those opposed. Is haven't. It is about. Where any other business to come before the Senate. Madam secretary. Senate bill fifty six by Senator Hill. To regulate the use of socials of credit scores based on environmental social justice or government scores or metrics and prohibit a state agency from engaging in the discrimination based on the use of the social credit system Senate bill fifty six state agencies Senate bill fifty seven by Senator Irvin to modify the fees charged by the Arkansas State Medical Board and authorize the Arkansas State Medical Board to reduce fees if the fee reduction is in the best interest of the state Senate bill sixty seven. Public health center fifty eight by Senator Irvin to create a student and an apprentice level or licensing of the massage therapy profession profession Senate bill fifty. Public health. Senate resolution ten oh five bass representative Bentley answer Stubblefield reclaim religious freedom day Senate concurrent resolution ten oh five. State agencies. There any other business. Senator Flippo you're recognized. Thank you madam president members I just wanna let remind members of the city county local committee that we will be meeting for organizational meeting five minutes upon adjournment thank you. Senator Davis you're recognized thank you madam chair and efficiency will meet upon adjournment in room three oh nine. Thank you Senator Davis. Caldwell. Thank you Mr president the address will meet immediately after efficiency though they're gonna be there for about five minutes so we'll make three on a. Thank you senator. Any other announcements. Senator Hester. I'm sure this is about to be said to we will we will not be back until Tuesday at one PM. But wait budget budget will be nine will be in session Tuesday at one. Thank you senator Hammer. Like to inform you that if you go and get on your calendar if you interested the protocol because will meet for the first time next Wednesday morning at seven o'clock in the old Supreme Court room representative DM Vaught will be handling the House side we take care Senate side and that'll be on Wednesday morning at seven o'clock invite you to come we're only there for about twenty minutes usually so you get about all your other business but it's a good way to start the day also invites all to be there will remind you weekly of it thank you. Any other announcements. Right see none. The Senate will stand at a German subject to where the desk will convene January seventeenth at one PM.