Judiciary Committee - Senate

Finally. Are the first item of business up to date is center Chesterfield you're recognized to present your bill Senate bill fifty nine. Thank you Mr chairman good morning good morning I do have an amendment I would hope that the committee would. vote positively on fifty fifty nine if you will going to explain your amendment the amendment simply adds person or if the and it seems simple because it was in response to a concern from the family council and we were able to accommodate their concern about making sure they did not preclude Paris from being able to punish their children so it's just a simple amendment okay and any members of questions Senator Tucker. Are we have a motion to adopt the amendment profitability Scotian. Senator flowers you're recognized. Exactly where is this. I don't have the amendment where's the it's on page two line two at. It in person yes the and substitute person for you the simple amendment. If the person. It's a simple change really basically all your reading is for which would allow parents to discipline their children and it was inadvertently left out of the original bill. Okay. Are any other questions on the amendment. Are we have a motion to adopt the amendment of second. Second I have a second all those in favor say aye All opposed. R. two members been adopted since Chesterfield go ahead plan your bill thank you Mr chair this is a simple bill this is already existing law. The bill itself is already existing law what we have done is to amended to clarify that teacher means not only certified people but also classified folks and I'm running because several Paris this year have been beaten up and they did not defend themselves because they thought they would lose their jobs if we do nothing else the bill will allow that self defense but we need to clarify that when we say teacher we're not just talking about those in the classroom we talking about the bus driver we're talking about them well the maintenance people don't see him or talk about the cafeteria workers I workers should have the right to self defense and that's all this bill does is to expand that to me not only teacher a classified otherwise the law is already in place. So basically this bill just expands does it just clarifies staff for that it's both certified and classified staff who have the right to self defense. All right members you for an explanation the bill any discussion. This could be the only bill United agree on so just feel like you know even a broken clock is right twice a day. Flowers you have a question. You senator yes Sir will you say this is already in the law yes yes ma'am. Where. It's in motion. About that but you will see that the amendment only deals with the line ten the rest of it is already incorporate in the law and I don't remember where. Because. If you will look at nine twenty beginning at twenty five. The rest of this none of that is changed there's no line under it there's nothing there is no no law but when we get to twenty five it's a school employee includes without limitation a person employed by a school under written contract including without limitation a classified school employee in the original bill it says teacher. Is this parents. But it never say is that people drive our buses are included in the S. and they should be included because of two people who would jump down and beaten up or Paris. Okay. I thought I looked at five to six so one. You're adding school employee. It says teacher. No online twenty five you're adding. I'm Tom at the original bill so provides for teachers parents etcetera while talking about the law in five to six so one which this. Obviously is amending. You're putting an additional. lines to include. School employee. And then under that. Classified school employee in license school employee those are new. And would be new. To section five to six so one of the code. Five six oh one refers to teachers. AS one of those entities. Five to six oh five refers to teacher. Concerning the use of physical force well. That's considered justifiable. With five to six so Warren. Under your bill is a new. Section the new definition. Added under five to six so one. Two includes employee. I'm I'm just. Trying to understand. I think our law already provides for. Defense. Once person. Are you even a third person. What would you say. Classified school employee. And license school employee what I want to know. These people trained. Because. But I'm thinking about. Our children with disabilities. And. What the proper. Process. Under the individuals with disabilities Education Act requires in terms of their conduct and behavior. So. I guess my question is are these people. That you're adding. Under this definition of school employee. Are they presently trying to deal with. discipline of school children particularly disabled children. A part of our training is educators is to deal with all children only those children with special needs or in special needs classes. What I love about their their I had him in both specialty and in regular classrooms right however we have to be trained and disciplined there's not a lot of that that goes on unfortunately. But what I am saying this is about is the individuals to. And when you have two people beaten up and they don't defend themselves because they think they will lose their jobs by simply holding a child if they don't get anymore do we have a problem. And that is seven at least twice this year it may be happening more prevalently around this state I was a classroom teacher I was trained somewhat in discipline but we're basically don't into the classroom with very little professional development about what our rights are and what we can do in order to maintain order especially if we are attacked I'm aware that what I always thought I had the right to it but what this is doing is to put a light on the fact that is not okay to beat up on teachers it's not okay to be double professional on nonprofessional drivers and and and secretaries that's what this is about I want our kids to be protected just as you do but at the same time I won't I workers to stay in environments that are safe for them and would give them the right to say or to defend themselves that's all this is about. Love concerned not only about the employees of the school district but more importantly about the children what if the children that are beating up folks then we need to do something to stop and if it's the reverse and as an attorney I've seen that. So I'm just concerned because I think the code already provides for self defense and defense of third persons and I don't necessarily see giving carte Blanche classified school employees in the school well license school employee I would imagine that would be a teacher without knowing there is some training that they understand what the rights of the students are as well as the their own rights. That's all I have here the members have any questions. March St. Sam Nunn we have a someone here to speak for the bill. You come to the table and. Recognize yourself. Thank god thank you Mr Mister chair and thank you members of the committee my name is Jerry **** I'm executive director of family council and we appreciate senator Chesterfield bringing this bill and we appreciate her working with us on a good amendment to the bill and I believe there was probably just a drafting error on it and she was able to correct that with the amendment and the bill is really asks you explained it and it is a not only a pro school employee bill but it's also up a pro student bill because sometimes things have to be done for the welfare of that students or other students that may be in the classroom I myself have been a classroom teacher for eleven years before I got involved in coming here to the capitol and also have been a school bus driver and drove a school bus back in my younger days and so I think this is a good common sense bill that is seeks to protect everybody and and do good faith as much good as we can so. Mister chair with that that concludes by testimony or thank you Mr ****. Any other members anyone anyone else the audience. Here to speak for against the bill. Any members have any questions. We have a a I have a motion I have a motion from Senator Tucker do pass as amended. A. I have a second all those in favor say aye. All opposed. Your bill passes and just feel. Thank you Mr thank you members the I understand you have another bill Senate bill sixty yes I do Mr chair you're recognized to go ahead present that bill thank you Mr chair this bill is says very simply that. When you're scared you don't have to have the right to hurt other people simply because of who they are. It's a simple bill I was so scared because the person was gay that I thought I needed to just beat him up or kill them is not acceptable to us so what is saying here in this bill is it the panic defense really should not exist. When a person decides to commit a violent act against a person who should not be because of what that person looks like all who that person is and I'd be happy to take any questions. March your next plans to the bill any questions members. we have. I think one person signed up to speak on the bill. If you want to go ahead and come to the end of the table recognize yourself the record you're recognized speak. Thank you chairman my name is Reverend Marie Maynard o'connell I'm a minister in the Presbyterian church USA and I'm also the parent of a trans gender non binary a child I have three kids my oldest is sixteen I have a twelve year old and a seven year old and this year my family went to an event called the transgender day of remembrance and it's it's where you remember everyone who has been killed in the past year for being gender nonconforming and at least thirty two people have been killed in the United States in two thousand twenty two. While we were at that event my family learned about the events at a night club club Q. where a mass shooter killed people for being gay. And as we learned about that at that event my youngest child got it he understood why we were there is a family to protect his eldest sibling and he snuggled in real close and he looked me in the eye and then he said loud enough for everyone to hear mom is my sibling going to be murdered for being trans. And as a parent I didn't know what to say. So I said well we're going to have to start talking about this issue and changing the world for the better so it doesn't happen. And I see this as a very common sense bill to remove the panic defense as a legitimate reason for committing a crime of violence against anyone for their gender or sexuality I was surprised to realize that it was already permitted and I would like to ask the members today to go ahead and do pass this bill so that I can look at my youngest and say that I had a tiny part in making Arkansas a better place to live thank you. Senator I ship question. Yes but it's already being used your name to the witness. We all want safety we want quality. Four people. You know we just had a committee. And we've had other committees previously. Which the only one that was threatening. What from. The testimony the to tell us protected from. So I. Well I understand your concern I always look at are we making a special classification. Are we giving somebody. Special rights. When we're not trying to do. Keep everybody safe how many people in Arkansas. You nine national statistics seventy people in Arkansas. Having been killed. I'm trying to remember the name of the young lady that was killed I believe in twenty one I could have the date wrong thanks to the pandemic but we did have a child in North Little Rock who was misgendered repeatedly And she was shot in the front seat of a vehicle in North Little Rock I'm sure some enterprising person can look that up. But I would also like to if I may respond to your questions about a specified class of individuals it takes very little imagination to think of someone being surprised at their date is not who they thought they were regardless of gender or presentation. And also to imagine that crimes of violence against women. Panic defense can be used in that as well I don't think we should be giving criminals an easy out and I frankly look at the fact that panic the assertion yes I did this and I am guilty but I shouldn't be held accountable because I had feelings. Is not something that Arkansas wants to stand for this is a good common sense change the law to prevent criminals from hurting others and getting away with it right and I appreciate your your comment that you didn't didn't think we need to be giving criminals an easy out there for a lot of people said at the end of that table they have different views that I do and that's exactly what or what to do. They will give criminals or those who are locked up for criminality an easy out. So I appreciate you saying that. I don't take lightly anybody being harm especially killed. But we live in a society that is continuing to digress. And anybody wants to argue with that these look at some states. I am concerned. And I Mr I have before the vote on this I'm like a motion but I'd like to have some testimony from judicial experts is if if this has possible the ramifications that were not discussing right now. Mark the is there anybody in the room. I would like to a come of age and talk about this bill resolution of. No public defenders. Mr yes we've had this bill out for a long time right and one of the reasons I did not want to run it last week was because I wanted people to have the opportunity to speak for or against the bill. You know having talked to some thirty years I have seen my kids in I've never judge my kids on what they look like. But I know that some of them were gay. And they get beaten up and one young man who was transit was being beaten up until they found out he could beat them up and they cut out a lot of that. But is not okay. I'm closing for my bill it is not okay I thank you. Just fill out I think one of the problems is some of us have might be the Defining the word panic. Hanneke. Well some people are saying all I found out they were gay and I just had to respond and make me shoot somebody that's panicking. It is not okay. Senator Tucker you're recognized. Thank you Mr I just wanted to know that the word panic is in the the title for this code section but it's not actually in the language in the code section that it's it's really fleshed out it's what it's saying there is the discovery knowledge or disclosure of the eight that your conduct can result from the discovery knowledge or disclosure of the victim sexual orientation sex gender gender identity and so forth so that word panic it's not actually in law the rhino I read that to you but when you read the word panic defense you kind of wonder what is the word panic it in. Any other questions for members. Are we have a motion at the proper time Senator flowers which motion motion to pass a motion to pass. We have a substitute motion Senator Clark watchers I mean senator Clark center right arrives for jobs in a move it is time to ask before the this is allowed to pass along S. the table at this time. Are we have a motion. To table Senate bill sixty. I have a question Senator Rice all right Senator you're recognized just clarifying question it is a motion just tabled indefinitely or the table until particular time. I had asked for time to check in to mower I I'd read the bill didn't understand all of it with what testimony we've had I've got more questions in a region today it's a I read I ask. Prior to any motion yes that I would would like to. I have more input. Are we have a motion to table the bill. It's our second. I have a second. All those in favor tabling the Bill passed. Is there any discussion on tabling the bill. March sent flowers you're recognized. I notice that this bill was on the agenda for last week. And We're trying to I thought be Fishin with our agenda expedite. matters on the agenda. I think. Purpose of posting the agenda on the calendar which is available to all the public in Arkansas including justices if they were concerned and had some position opposite of what. The senators ledges let the proposed legislation is they would have been here. So I would say. Not to table. Are we we have the original motion to table and the second discussion centred Kerr Tucker. A Mister. I would just say I'm I'm personally cover with the bill as it is for the for the reasons given you know you shouldn't be able to harm someone simply because of who they are also respectful my colleague senator rice's questions that he wants to get answered for early in the session and you know we can get those questions answered I would just personally more comfortable there were a timetable on the motion rather than just having it be indefinite so that's my comment. SunTrust you didn't have a timetable on the motion to eject. Are the bills I make a motion stand is Senator I stated all those in favor say aye aye All opposed no. The motion passes bills tabled. Thanks to our business house bill eleven twenty five I have a question. You're recognized sent flowers so since the bill is tabled is it going to continue to be on the agenda are what. The deal is brought off the table. The motion bring it off the table. A motion to bring it off the table. To put back on the agenda correct. Everyone if it needs to be put on the active agenda we can suspend the rules that may need a. I'm not familiar with the motion to bring it off the table. I don't I don't know that our clues address that he might. In light meals where that is in the rooms were Senate bill you're recognized to present House Bill. Eleven twenty five. Thank you Mr chair okay. Well I like to ask a representative evinced commanders I present this bill for some for some input on this since it was his bill on the house side. All right. Distribute a resident of eleven you are recognized to come in the table and help explain your bill. You start with this just kind of a pretty simple bill as far as I'm concerned it prevents a convicted sex offender level three and four from purchasing owning possessing using operating an unmanned aircraft A. K. A. a drone if the benefits. Been convicted of those crimes simply put that. Keep someone from flying over in recording young people as are outside at the pool laying out in the winter flounder unmanned aircraft around for. Things are no good and we had this actually happening Cabot just so happens up the drone crashed parents were there and were able to get that and take it to the authorities it was found that it was a level level four when the ground level three the. Sexual offender that was listed among people and so this just kinda want to listen to pose on some other more years of low low just going to keep that from happening and I'm on that representative eleven X. expand on that. Thank you senator hill and thank you for joining me in this constituent let bill. Senator hill stated we had a situation in our districts where. Couple ladies were in the privacy of their own homes privacy their own fenced in backyard. Slaying out relaxing during the summer and I hear that familiar noise it because all of us to look at and try to figure out what it is and it was a drone. A drone hovering over them as they were out relaxing in privacy their backyard. First couple of days it happened I thought was kind of funny that somebody would actually care to just come back second time or third time as they begin to ask around the neighborhood there was no record of anyone within their neighborhood they live adjacent to a large area of wood wooded area and they begin to think that maybe that drawn was coming up over those would come and bring down over them in their neighborhood. After several days of this the kind of made a joke amongst themselves that what we do is driven ever ever crashed. Sure enough the state would have a couple days later the drone crashed in their backyard. They pick up the drone out of frustration. Load up the truck or car down the road they go. The cut off at the end of the road but gentleman who gets out of out of his truck he's visibly angry. This is he also the drone around here as a matter of fact we have where is it truck or car what do you do with it which is give it back now rejected sheriff's office. He wasn't gonna following the sheriff's office because he knew he was probably already breaking the law. Yes the sheriff's office. Maternity and explain the situation deputy sheriff looks at it there's a name tag on it. He. Matches the gentleman's name and he says oh yeah we're very familiar with them. Symbol can't you do something about it sure said no not really. So the laws are just a little bit vague on this is that especially in since the fact that he's a level three sex offender is nothing right now that we can do about it so we decided we were going to try to fix this. Here we we have a lot of laws of people say we're going to do this on the what ifs what if somebody breaks in our home what if somebody does this. Maybe this is a what if but here's what the point is that I see. I see what if the he really wasn't interested in looking and videotaping and recording them what if he was. Trying to figure out when mom and dad are not home trying to figure out how many teenage girls are young boys around the backyard playing mom and dad are gone. Trying to figure out if they've got a big dog in the backyard. What we see here I believe it's just a loophole in the law that does allow this to happen. And I believe that all of us have the duty to protect our children it protect any type of predatory type situation that might prevail in our districts. That will be happy to take any questions our members you burden escalate to the billing questions Senator Tucker. Thank you Mr chair. I was with representatives about this. Takes a very briefly with Senator Hill that the behavior at you know as you describe it as it happened I believe that ought to be illegal. so we were in agreement there I'm I have some concerns about the way the bill is written. In some sense I think it's too broad and other sense something isn't not broad enough I'll start. Are with that everything that you're describing if that have been done by a person who was not a level three or four sex offender. And it would not be illegal if your bill passes and I believe it ought to be illegal no matter who does it whether they're level three or four sex offender or not. in the you know the S. so there's an existing law on voyeurism and I'll mention this to representative eleven also read it now just for the context. Well let me say first the way in which I think you may be overly broad is. You know there are different types of sex offenses now if someone. Is a level three or four sex offender because they were of lawyer or because they had child. sexual abuse material then. They might not have a drone I understand that if someone is a level three for sex offender because they were convicted of sexual assault of an adult woman and there was no video involved that's a horrible crime. But I'm not sure that it being able to have a drone or not is really applicable to that person. And there's a lot of things that you can do with the drone they're obviously not legal whether it's sporting event or the natural beauty of Arkansas or whatever the case might be and the way the bill is written it's it's criminalizing a person's ability to do things that are basically fine. Under our society standards so. You know my thought would be. The way the law is written now and now get to that it says without the consent. There is a person commits the offense of voyeurism if for the purpose of sexual arousal or gratification he or she knowingly. Without the consent of each person who is president and the private place personally or through the use of an unmanned vehicle aircraft so that the drone is already in the law for a reason. Look into a private place in which a person may reasonably be expected to be nude or partially nude so we already have a that is the way the law is written now it's it's criminalizing the behavior that we really want to focus on you can't spy on people especially when they may be nude without their knowledge or consent. And I would. There is a loophole in the law I agree with you I think what you're describing should be illegal as the people in the backyard of an example you're scrubbing may not have been new to partially nude I don't know. Let's assume that they weren't for the sake of this conversation I still think that ought to be illegal. My thought would be to amend the law that criminalizes voyeurism so we're criminalizing the behavior that we want to prevent spying on people without their knowledge or consent but then were not criminalizing behavior that we really don't care about using a drone for the natural beauty of Arkansas or whatever the case might be. so. Because I think that would better capture. You know preventing the behavior that we want to prevent because or whether some of the sex offender or not they wouldn't be able to do what you're describing if we amended the law for your resume. And then if they are sex offender level three for sex offender than they just want to you know get a view of. Mount Gaylor or some other thing you know they they were not criminalizing their ability to do that so so that's my those are my thoughts about the the last thing which I mentioned to. To representative eleven is if this bill house bill eleven twenty five order board to pass I would also want there to be one line in there that there's no criminal liability for selling a drone if you're commercial dealer of drums to a level three or four sex offender because there's other crimes in the law if you if you you know give a gun to someone that you should give it to the and then you can be subject to criminal liability and I just I don't think we want drone commercial drone dealers to have to check with sex registry at the at the point of sale. And and you know just to be clear and that not that this would create criminal liability because I don't think it would but if our a drone dealer I would be nervous about it if this law were to pass without online and they're saying you're not subject to criminal liability for selling for now. For not checking the sex offender registry before you sell it around so. Those are my thoughts. Restrictor statements and comments there were. Senator Tucker but I will say no we're in this bill does it say that we will come last the one who sells it to them if I was them that will be interesting checking to find out and take care of my people are the same age alike of firearms. managed strictly so I feel like that the the drone Business time was running one I would definitely want to check it to make sure things are safe. If I may add to that mixture to senator talkers. Comments. We actually had something similar to that in the original draft and after. Quite a bit of research by. The bureau in looking at other states we decided to take that out because we didn't want in any way to provide a hint that there would be any type of liability upon who was selling the drone we took that out for that purpose just so that there. There wasn't any particular mention of that in the bill or that it could open up any type of liability in the senator's point also on the voyeurism I couldn't agree more Senator Tucker we have laws on the books pertaining specifically to voyeurism however when it comes to. Attention all of. Being a predator to a child being predator to a single young lady in the privacy of your own home I believe when the crime was committed in that person became that level three level four sex offender they gave up headed that additional right to to be able to for us to put something back into their hands and allow them to create another crime. With different circumstances. Senator could you are you up. You may be familiar with this one of the law we have a law that prevents someone from flying a drone over private property. My understanding the primary will be law that we have is the one that I just read from. So I you know I would be again I would be more concerned I share representative eleven concern that he just laid out but but my question is should that not be illegal whether you're a level three or four sex offender or not I mean I can go by drone in. And what over his constituents outside it would be illegal under this bill because I'm not a little three four six hundred so I don't know the answer but I think it's a good it's a very good question Mister chair that you're asking and and in my in my view we ought to tweak that law about who anyone who can use drones over someone's private property we. You know if I if I'm we live on a farm in a for drone flies around our house I think you know what happens to. With a nonpublic left to take the police station because that's our private property. And nobody has any right to fly anything other than a commercial airline. So Having said there any more questions from committee. Senator Ricky. In the same way Senator Tucker I appreciate your comments in the same way that we prohibit felons from you mention firearms I think it's entirely reasonable that. That prohibition is not based on what kind of felony they committed it's entirely reasonable to make this prohibition the people not class classifications the. I have a question. Senator flowers you're recognized. And this may be for for someone that's with the The sex offender. Registry. DO level three and level four. Offenders. Assessed offenders are they eligible at any point in time to come off the list. I see that gentleman over there I don't know if you're on that. Border what is a. You want would you like to come to the table and answer that recognized so. That's what happens when you shake your head near. And for the sponsors I want to know for certain are you talking about those that. Are currently. Assessed. Our. Have been assessed but then removed. From that classifications. Senator flowers I don't recognize the gentleman may be able to clarify but I believe once you are on that level three level four which is high risk or sexually violent predator I do not believe that you come off that list. But you don't know. No me thank you. Good morning my name is Robert Coles I work with the central Arkansas re entry coalition. And I work closely with the. People sex offender registry and if your level for years and never coming off the registry if you're a level three after fifteen years you can apply to be relieved of the obligation to register. So would the assessment and is it that have the effect of the assessment being removed if you apply to be relieved of the obligation to register you become review be read you're going to be reassessed. As part of the hearing. So that might result in a person not being assessed again as a level three well after five years you can apply for reassessment to read to change your level to alter your level after fifteen years you can apply to really relieved completely of the obligation to register good it's not a sure thing people sometimes do get removed from the registry and sometimes they don't. So. The Mr cheer up I think we need at least the person that identified themselves on our. Organizational date to as a person that is a member of that board assessment board to say whether or not I don't know what the public defender has any. Knowledge of it. What. Just say tell us about the sex offender registry and whether this is going to be a permanent classification of level three level for the sponsor just explain that you're level for you never come offered if you're level three you can apply after fifteen years five to fifteen years to come up with that the necessarily mean you're going to come up I understand that but you I'm not certain that this bill would prohibit somebody from ever owning a drone even if they are re assess our come off a classification as a level three. No I'm physically says if you're level three or level four you cannot own a drone so if you're not a level three you've been reclassified I think it's pretty clear you can on a drawing not things that people removed from the it's as if he or she is assessed. So if you you've been assessed. One year. Three years five years fifteen years later. You're in the reassessed. Does that mean then that you can print doesn't address all are simply because you've been assessed at some time prior you'll never get to have is grown we reckon if you're or level three according what you said you have a roll assessment done you're removed from the level three status is that correct. If they find in favor of your okay so you removed so therefore gives you. The right to own on drone. You're no longer level three that's that's not correct okay this is if he or she is assessed as a level three or level four offender that's current. It doesn't deal with. After some years later and you're taken off it just says if you're a sense so if you've ever been assessed we you never have the right. To have a drone approaches a drone if you've been removed from that list I think that's a question that needs to be clarified not on I think it's just that simple as you put it. Share. All right any more discussion on the bill. One from the auditor resigned say. We have no one no one is here to speak up for against the bill. Or what is the will of committee. I have a motion to pass I have a second. In discussion. All those in favor say aye. All opposed no bill passes will call. Call for road. C.. Senator Hester. Senator Hester. Senator rice is sent to rice yes. Senator Clarke Tucker. Senator Clarke Tucker. Senator Ben Gilmore yes Senator Bill Gates B. and Gilmour yes. Senator Mack McKee yes Sir to match my key yes. Senator Alan Clark. Senator Alan Clark. Here's Stephanie flowers no Senator Stephanie flowers no. Senate. Senator bart Hester. Senator bart Hester yes. Sure vote yes. With a vote of five ice one day one not voting the Bill pass is graduation thank you Mr thank you Committee. Are saying anyone else everything else I think those are the only three bills we have on the agenda this morning if you have any bills you want to run Wednesday be sure and let staff for myself no and we will get those on the active list and run those Wednesday. So having said that were German.