Insurance & Commerce- House

Thirteen thirteen forty eight and thirteen fifty six are all being moved to deferred then contacted by the sponsor recently in order to move those to deferred. So maybe we'll try again next Wednesday I'm not sure so I'll let you know. It is okay I apologize it is rescheduled for Wednesday and will I guess check the weather and say they can comes. Okay I believe represent ray. You would you like to come to the table. Right to bring it this time you can introduce them and. Thank you Mr chairman representative David Ray District sixty nine I think the yes I brought will just provide testimony when it's time for testimony Thank you for the opportunity to present this bill this morning this is a bill concerning E. sports tournaments and And he sports legislation so it's a pretty straightforward bill is just three pages and what it does is it defines and outlines what in E. sports tournament is and clarifies that in E. sports tournament doesn't I talked to a few of the committee members about this bill what I realized pretty quickly was that not many people knew what E. sports wise which is you know totally fine I understand video games aren't for everybody so I'll try to explain briefly what E. sports is these forces essentially the world of competitive video games these are multi player games where people compete against each other the sports in recent years have become quite popular nationwide last year E. sports I think was about a one point two billion dollar industry. and it's growing in popularity you'll find that many of your schools host E. sports teams the Arkansas activities association recognizes the sports is a competitive activity we've got over eighty schools in Arkansas that have competitive E. sports teams and there are six colleges I believe that host collegiate E. sports teams and even offer college scholarships to E. sports players Henderson state Hendrix John Brown there are several And the reason that I'm running this bill first of all. E. sports the purpose of the bills clarify the sports do not constitute gambling gambling obviously is something that's determined by chance E. sports on the contrary are determined by the relative skill and knowledge of the participants competing so that's the key difference there L. I. times DO with the way any sports tournament would operate is it would operate a good analogy that I've thought of and ran this by representative when because he's our resident pro fisherman. Almost similar to a bass tournament you would pay an entry fee and you would compete against the other anglers in that case and the winner would be of the prices would be known in advance and you compete for the prize to see who catches the biggest fish or who catches the most fish or whatever the case may be although having bass fish a time or two I would argue that that may be more fishing maybe more due to chance than you know any sports competition. But also this legislation would be beneficial economically it's becoming more and more popular for E. sports tournaments to be held regionally and even nationally I've seen E. sports tournaments carried on ESPN even and yeah participants gather at arenas or convention centers to compete against one another that's obviously good for our economy if we're hosting in welcoming these types of events in Arkansas people come and stay at our hotels they spend money at restaurants they frequent our local businesses things of that nature and some states like North Carolina or even offering economic incentives and grants to attract E. sports tournaments that you're not gonna find that in my legislation but it just goes to illustrate you know the growing popularity of this industry and the extent to which states are are willing to go to attract new industry so probably the biggest question I've gotten on this bill is why is it necessary you know I would say I would make three points on that number one the sports is sort of a burgeoning industry but it's also a nascent industry and it would benefit from the clarity in our law to provide certainty to industry participants right obviously anybody who's engaging in economic activity what's the certainty to know that what they're doing is is legal secondly passing this legislation would send a signal that Arkansas is a state that's responsive to new industries that were open for business and we want to bring economic activity to our state and then third if you look at the statute that's referenced in the bill five dash sixty six dash one oh one that statute is is very strict it basically instructs courts to in D. as they're interpreting whether something is gambling or not to to air on the side of of considering something gambling. unless it's specifically prohibited and so that's the main reason to run the bill and with that I'll be happy to take any questions. Thank you representative ray are there any questions about the committee. Question flowers you're recognized. Thank you for that thank you Mr thank you for that explanation and I think this is awesome and ties in with that with the second largest industry in this state which is tourism in terms of holding The kind of time is that talk might even I know it's electronic still the basis of it could be something that is here. My own only question is and I appreciate that you start out the bill saying that. E. sports is not gambling but In a sense would be defining it for the state as a sport in defining what the tournaments would look like. Since it would be sports and then since we have legalized sports betting couldn't casinos then come in and say Hey we're gonna bet on these tournaments back on these games even though they themselves are not. Gambling sure so if you're if you're making a wager on some other sort of competition if someone were betting on the outcome of an E. sports tournament that would be gambling five minutes that's pretty clear cut but right as as an E. sports tournament is defined in the bill someone participating in the sports tournament you know trying to win not that would not be impressed so what what I'm asking is. And I'm I think that's great and and that should be there but I'm wondering if we should especially since we have so many kids participating. Should there be some language to prohibit wagering against these games or at least the ones that involve kids you know eighteen and under. Well I would I'm not familiar with all of the sections of code to cover gambling but I would imagine that that is probably covered in the in another section of code but But I understand the question and I I agree with your observation. Is that something you maybe you could check on before it comes to the floor. Sure I'd be happy to look into that great thanks. Thank you represent what you're recognized. Right so there's a distinction between paid and non paid sports so it in schools people are participating as an extracurricular activity it's it's a hobby of sorts and so if you were doing it on a paid basis where someone we're paying an entry fee right to compete in a tournament like the example I referenced a fishing derby or fishing rodeo where you pay an entry fee to enter your you know your your vote or your team if you were this legislation is essentially clarifying that the paid participation in any sports term that doesn't constitute gambling obviously if if the several members of this committee Left here today and we went over to Capitol Hill apartments and we competed against each other in video games and there was no money involved there you know clearly that would not there wouldn't be any issue with that well the question is there operating now for me I understand why we will. Jumping into an area that's already currently operating and and I I've heard of no problems. The committee members I have a and who who will control these from the state level. We Commission call them well so. Most all. We get into a regular as to have accountability so who they will be answerable to the to state level. Well I would argue that it's probably not necessary for the government to get into the business of we're regulars law of regulating this is this is an end to well Sir. No Sir this law and knows what we what are you allow me to finish my answer. The destroyed and for sure and I'll be happy to give you that I hope so. So I'm not trying to regulate it with this bill what I'm simply trying to do with this bill is clarified that something is not Video games is very high on that list I don't unnamed insured Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders would want to regulate the playing of video games. We'll okay do you keep talking about the position. The bass fishing tournaments now we're going. I wouldn't want to regulate a bass fishing tournament was. Mr it's all for prizes. That's right that's that's the analogy I'm making is that a basket you know eat I I assume you wouldn't consider a bass fishing tournament where someone pay an entry fee to be gambling in need of regulation by the state well we're and that's the same way and we will what do you will regulate the insulin I'm I'm not trying to regulate it in fact I'm trying to do the opposite of regulated. Trying to ensure that it's not regulated the. Thank you president Ray that represent what if we could hopefully come before you can get back thank you I appreciate you represent retention you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair of representative rate the. Is there a difference between. Video gaming in this I mean if I if I look at this this is no different than a little league baseball team that's operating on the weekends on a weekend tournament the same thing with a video turn it that you're talking about is that your. Well in a in a non paid respect yes yes to the plan they're playing the game the plan a game. And they're paying the entry fee to play today that's right which is what we have a lot of kids do my son plays AAU basketball paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in play AAU basketball and some right so this isn't any different than that in terms of these kids the video gaming that's regulated that's under triple later we've already identified as their these kids are these people that are participating or not gambling the plan again yeah the the difference in that analogy may be prizes I'm not really familiar with a U. basketball but you know in that E. sports terminate you would compete to win right and so there would be a prize either monetary or non monetary for the winner or winners That's not. Right and so it to your point though I mean I would say like if you're gambling something determined strictly by chance right if you buy a lottery ticket if you play a slot machine there's nothing you can do to increase your odds of winning it's it's determined by chance with with ease sports you know your odds of winning are going to be determined by the relative knowledge and skill of the participants these are people who practice E. sports they they train for That it's very different. Thank you reserve eleven recognized. Thank you Mr chair add representative ray first I want to thank you as you sent the email out to all committee members yesterday that you mentioned the current defending state champion Cabot Panthers the sports team. If Page three Line eight. The drafter goes to great detail to define person. But yet I must I just overlooked it no one else up in the bill prior to that is the word person mention I'm a missed it but I don't recall seeing so I'm just Intended purpose of the bill. I mean we do that what basically what we're saying here is a person is anything from an individual all the way up to a fortune five hundred companies. Why is that so brought in defining person what was why was it necessary to put that in there. I'm just scanning the rest of the bill at that I wish I had a control in feature here if it's if it's a person is not mentioned anywhere else in the bill then I would guess that's superfluous. Yeah I died yeah control it would be great I didn't see it there is a mention of in person I can in person tournament but you were. We're defining person is as an individual or but the sherry or corporation well yeah okay so it is mentioned I'm seeing it here on on page two line two it in the definition of a sports tournament organized means that a person right so. Yes so the company could organize any sports tournament like for example or joint stock company or a legal entity their businesses and if you're not familiar with these types of businesses if you don't go to it it may seem odd because you don't go there but there are I know of a business in little rock for example that is basically a video game lounge and people they have all sorts of video console set up where people go and they said they play video games and they can go to the snack bar and get popcorn or diet coke or whatever and they they hang out and play video games and and and so companies you know businesses would host E. sports attorney of a corporate sponsor should be putting our department okay I'm saying thank you. Thank you represent Perry recognized thank you Mr chairman represent rail can piggyback off what representative flowers mentioned is there anywhere in the bill that expressly prohibits gambling. Well. That would be at again I'm not familiar with all of the statutes related to gambling but I know that there are there are lots of them and so Ambling would be is obviously covered at length in our state in our statutes this bill is simply clarifying that this particular activity the sport Patey sports tournaments as defined in this bill do not constitute gambling. So that's a yes or no. I'm not I'm not trying to I'm not trying to change any laws related to gambling in this bill. So if something is considered gambling it it's considered gambling. Already. If you were wagering on something on the outcome of a. Of attorney Matt as opposed to being a direct participant in that tournament those are two totally different things I think that's. Can't read your mind obviously I think that's where you're going. Thank you Mr. Thank you representative Ken Ferguson. Thank you Mr chairman I get two quick questions the first question yeah my grandson is a game where. So the paid a fee he could do this. Yes thank you it if there were a a tournament that were being hosted that had an entry fee yeah you could eighty nine despite okay and a complete. And any other questions he is if a the something that representatives say it if a corporation or if someone develop company to host these gaming tournament with it being the taxes collected or there's no taxes will be collected. How would that work that would work at all. I don't cover that in the bill so if someone earns income you know they're required by several other laws to report that income and pay taxes on it but I don't I don't levy any special taxes or anything in this bill the one more quick question I guess what I was getting that he's the organizer the company or corporation I'm sure that would. Organize a ton of it they would certainly make some sort of income off of it I think. Sure if so how would that be tax but that's not covered in the bill. That's right I mean it would be it would be just as any other business income. Okay. Thank you thank you represent Deborah Ferguson. Yes thank you yeah and I'm I'm my high school at the electronic T. you know of hi to compete and all that and and I guess we all agreed that that we already have teams competing in doing that I guess I'm just trying to figure out. I think it's a little disingenuous to say it's not gambling when you're putting that money in your winning many you know what I mean has that not gambling and if it is the M. Lange then it becomes an unregulated and untaxed. Cabling. What gambling is the key element gambling is the outcome being determined by chance right if you if you put if you invest money into in and start a business I mean you are risking the capital that you put into that business if it if it fails obviously but we don't consider that gambling right it's the eight because your business the outcome of your business a success of your business venture is going to be determined by factors other than pure random chance right it's gonna be based on the concept of your business model how hard you work at it whether it's a good idea or not A video game teams into the arena of all the segments about The a lot of high school paid E. sports tournaments I mean at the school level these are these are offered as extra curricular activities right but just like with I mean this sounds odd to people who are not familiar with the concept but just as there is high school basketball players that eventually go on to become pro basketball players and make money doing that there are people who are E. sports players who will go on to compete after school and they will they will compete for for prizes and for money and this is an industry that's it's new and so a lot of us are really familiar Our large tournaments and gatherings that are held you know at at hotels and arenas and convention centers where where people compete that follow up but but it it really is unregulated and there's nothing in the bill that prevents it from being gambled on right. I'm not trying to change any of the laws related to gambling you know if somebody is if somebody is gambling on. Any of that if the people are betting on a a high school football game or if they're betting on any sports tournament that would be covered under the committee statutes that govern gambling this this proposed bill for this bill would simply stipulate that each paid E. sports tournaments as they're defined in this bill do not constitute gambling. Thank you represent warrant you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chairman so I'm I'm listening to all this and I. I'm not real familiar with this but We're talking about paid E. sports tournaments I'm curious as to the amount that winners might be getting in some of these terminates and then when you talk about corporate sponsorships or corporate sponsored determines. How much might a person. Get paid for winning one of these tournaments give me a range so I'm I'm not a sports player I'm not trying to debate your question but I have several guests due to testify on the bill and I'm asked them to address that when they when they testified. Thank you restive Allan you're recognized for a question. Mr. couple questions that I was going to ask has already been asked not to be redundant if you will I think would rather move forward but thank you for asking that. Representative Wooten you are back in the queue you're recognized. The flowers you're recognized for a question. So as you drew attention to thank you Mr chair. Resumes you drew attention to where a person is mentioned it I just was reading down under that. Part I guess on page two line three it. Says is engaged in the business of professionally conducting paid sports tournaments for cash prizes for members of the general public. And that kind of struck me because if we're saying at the very top of the bill that this is in gambling then at the very bottom of the bill it's defined in person in the middle of the bill it's defining that that person can organize these terminates and then below that it says that the prices can go to the general public verses. The participants to pay the fees. To enter into the tournament that seems to create an opening and a loophole for there to be gambling but the bill is stipulating that is not gambling so they don't have to be responsible for entering into the arena of gambling if the bill doesn't say gambling is prohibited so that's my big concern I'm not saying that that was intentional but I'm saying if you put those things together. Then you're almost setting up. A pop the possibility of a gambling enterprise and the state saying that it's not gambling yeah that concerns me well I think it I think the portion of the bill your firm to do is just saying that. Members of the general public part can participate in it why not I mean the whole but basis of these bills when we make definitions so that we can be very specific is to specify and if we're defining participants in one part of the bill but then opening up prices for the general public is not problematic. Again I think it's I think the members of the general public would be people who would enter into competitions and I hear what you're saying but that's what we think and if we're going to pass legislation and their definitions on the person saying that a person can be anybody from an individual to Wall Street I think is one of our colleagues mentioned if we're gonna be that focused on defining who the players are you know that I'm trying to the organizers I I know that but what I'm saying is the bill is very clear to define who is who. So if we're saying what an individual what a person is before saying what a participant is. But then were not saying what the general public is it creates a loophole for there to be a gambling enterprise even though that's not what your intent or issues may represent flowers if if you have a direct question if you could we got to kind of keep moving you agree. Thank you no I would not thank you for that observation represent lady committee recognized. Thank you Mr chairman just trying to clarify something has been a couple questions about the gambling is not mentioned in here the yet you say it's to make it not gambling so would you say on page one. line twenty eight twenty nine it says paid and non paid E. sports tournaments conducted in compliance with this chapter are exempt from. Arkansas as it code five sixty six one oh one yes so the sense this from that code which is called the Arkansas gambling law. So the the exempts this from all of the gambling requirements that are in one oh one would you agree. Yes thank you. Thank you represent Ken Ferguson you're recognized for a question thank you Mr chair will wait for the other the gentleman we have because we testify thank you thank you represent Eads you're recognized for a question. Thank you I'm slow on the uptake years I'm just trying to follow along. It is our intent to prevent gambling on the sport. That's a whole that's a whole other questions if if some at. I don't know what the law would currently allow for for people to do in terms of gambling on the sport Sassoon if it were covered it would be covered under the sports gambling that occurs at at the casinos already I'm just talking about people who enter a tournament to compete against other people that's what that that's what this bill is defining and it's clear that those particular people who pay money to enter the terms are not gambling right the party yes the content of this building has or does not pass has no effect on whether or not I could gamble on a the sports game that's correct. This bill does not address the question that you raised thank you thank you Mister brown you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair and I think Senator a representative I didn't mean to give you a raise promotion representative Eads almost because you senator the distinction here I think is but I pay a fee to participate in a contest with other people. That's just what they charge for me to be in that context but if I'm sitting at home watching this game on TV with the bunch other Francis I'm going to bet on this player in somebody else's I'm going to bet on this player that's gambling but if I just pay it they need to enter a contest that's not gambling correct I mean is that distinction. I would agree with everything you just said thank you. Thank you Russia rose you're recognized for a question. Yes Sir thank you Mister representative ray just while we're discussing this you mention bass fishing tournaments I remember playing in three on three tournaments as a minor and having to pay a fee These are five hundred dollars three hundred dollars fifty dollars a vote with prizes should they win a tournament for real in the biggest fish scholarships for college in those types of things similarly with the sports gaming that's what we're talking about individuals being able to enter into a term and pay a fee maybe when a trophy need to win a prize is that correct that's exactly right follow up Mr you're recognized. If I were to wager a hundred dollars on somebody winning a bass tournament or three on three tournament this doesn't change whether I can do that or not no so if somebody wanted to wager on a high school or college E. sports tournament this doesn't change whether they can or can't do that as the law states currently correct that's correct okay thank you. Thank you. Okay no further questions by the committee will now move to members of the audience in the first person who signed up to speak is. Is against and. The hand that hand or it's Walter looks like E. bill like them you're recognized. If you would introduce yourself and who you're with and and you can proceed with the testimony yes. Thank you Mr chairman my name is Walter evil attorney for a local one and first I have no problem with traditional bass tournaments they the economy not to bring these where I'm from grew up there great the problem with this bill like a lot of these kind of things there's and you can base it on a discussion today there's a difficult distinction between what constitutes gambling and what doesn't. Want to point out that gambling can be things that involve elements of skil more than fifty years ago the Arkansas Supreme Court declared that wagering on horses at Oaklawn was not a game of chance it's a game of skill and so I don't think anyone would doubt that wagering on horse racing is gambling and the problem with this bill is there's no limitations on what really can occur under this activity and I could take this bill and create an online casino with E. sports and wagering among players for prizes and I point out that parimutuel wagering on horse racing is nothing more than betters playing against themselves the house has no The impact on the winners it It that merely takes if the and rewards the remaining amounts after tax to they winning bettors of the winning players and so that I don't think anyone would disagree that that's a form of gambling and with this bill I could do all that online unregulated and untaxed by creating an online form of wagering on sporting events traditional sporting events where you you pay a fee and maybe win a prize that a golf cart or what that's not necessarily gambling but when you get when you put this all online totally unregulated untaxed there's no limitation on the number of operators no limitation on who those operators are whether their nefarious folks one of the greatest persons and in and no so there's no limits or parameters in this legislation about who can be the operators what's going on online the there's no age requirement I mean it Oakland you have to be eighteen to wager on horses you have to be twenty one to the walk into the casino there's no limitations on ten year olds playing this there's no limitations on the amount of the prizes there's no limitations on how much someone could be able to play on a game participated in these activities there's just no parameters in this legislation to limit it to the intended purposes of the legislation and so those would be my comments about this about this legislation it will have major unintended comp with the consequences all online all unregulated with no supervision of who's playing who's operating the games what type of games that are being played the frequency of the play of the games all of the. Those things are are possible under the legislation because the bill doesn't have any parameters over regulatory aspects to it. Thank you for testimony will move to questions by the committee represent each you're recognized thank you Mr chairman. So. Just trying to follow along with what you said could happen if this bill passes could those same things happen if this bill if this bill when you replace the question. If this bill didn't exist couldn't does thing that you discussed already be happening they think they would be illegal. That's why we understand that for the what representative ray said is this just clarifies that the participants that enter any sports. Gaming thing are not gambling but but my understanding is it doesn't prevent. You know of anyone for that matter or or or or the sports book from gambling on those activities so if what you're saying what happened they could set up an online casino could they do that either way that they can under existing law existing law in Arkansas gambling is is illegal whether it's skill based or complete game of chance it's illegal unless it specifically authorized there's exceptions in the law in the constitution the people of voted on a horse racing authorizing horse racing in hot springs they've authorized for casinos to conduct casino gambling so those things are specifically exempted from the anti gambling statutes and so I don't think that anyone would contemplate that that putting up a an entry fee to play in a golf tournament or to play in a bass fishing fishing tournament would constitute gambling it's just not that would be something someone would and I think they maybe even a court case that said you know as an entry fee to play in a traditional activity like that would not be considered a necessarily can't but isn't that what this bill specifically says that entering does not constitute gambling it on any type of the sport that you're doing on online and so there's no limit on what type of sports activity I can create a you walk into the casino floor and slot machines are all lots of them are based on different games in your play and you the all you need to do here is make it among the players themselves playing that type of activity is no limit on the amount that can be bad there's no limits on the frequency of the games in the play of the games it's the it's the unintended consequences it's not that this has a a bad purpose or something it's just that it's so broad if there's no limitation there's no regulation there's no. Oversight so you're gonna have a lot of unintended consequences of of authorizing the that's the problem with. Thank you Watson road you're recognized for a question. Yes Sir thank you Mister chairman you referenced the various gaming operators could you describe what that would look like I don't know it could be it could be the Russian mob because there's no regulation of who can be the operators this all online so there's there's no registration with the state the state has no oversight in this legislation just authorizes any online what games under this statute and there's no it doesn't matter who's conducting the gate it could be them the the. The most evil persons in America because there's no background check there's you know everybody that's working in the casino goes through a complete background check the licensing procedure those type of things in any type of operation the the people who would be conducting this online the state would have no idea who's doing it who's behind it what rule whether they're cheating what we have state regulators on site going through everything that's going on at the casinos and in Arkansas there's nothing there's no oversight in this bill at all there's nothing to prevent people from operating under a. you know cheating people or whatever it is there's no oversight that's the problem with the bill. Follow up you reference the golf tournament which I think similar to like a three on three basketball tournament bass fishing tournament which is what I like in a E. sports gaming tournament too so I'm just curious about when you said operator I thought you meant the individuals actually operating in that tournament playing the game I'm just still curious what nefarious this looks like it would be in this for a golf tournament for that matter as well there wouldn't necessarily be it but this bill doesn't have any oversight as to who would be conducting these online games over the computer over the internet there's nothing in the bill to to have them license to find out who they are to have regulations where the games are conducted properly that's the problem with the bill my last question Sir and thank you for your patience are you aware of who prevents to various operators from bass tournaments golf tournaments or any other similar tournaments that take place in Arkansas again as I mentioned with the at the first I don't have a problem with that that I'm pleading golf tournaments and fishing tournaments and things before myself because I don't have a problem with that but you're moving that to online without knowing who's conducting the operation and unregulated there's no age requirement here you can be three and get on the computer and play in this there's no limit on the frequency of play I can create something under this legislation where it's just like you're sitting at a machine at a casino and just going going to go with because there's no nothing in the bill that limits that to your traditional sports activities like you're talking about like a basketball tournament for eighty three on three or bass fishing tournament for a golf tournament or something like that the that's the problem with the bill is it's it's just way generalized and there is nothing in the bill to regulate it to me. Make it do what you're really trying to intent thank you for your response never did hear what you would describe as nefarious activity but I appreciate you taking the time to answer. Well as it would be anyone who is operating one of these games that's cheating that's that's the takes the money didn't pay the price does we're going to have to continue to move thank you I think Senator done at the state directed flowers you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair it. It sounds like you're you what you're suggesting and this is what I was kind of getting up earlier is that the difference between. The other comments that we've all been accustomed to be the basketball bass or golf is that those are in person so it's very difficult. You know to be elusive when you're president swinging you know I've got off yes club or. Catching fish or playing basketball first is being online and what is a weapon of five I have a question okay do it okay. Verse being online and you're like this and I'm sorry I'm taking a long time but I think that is a lot of confusion when we're making drawing analogies between in person and online so verses online where you're like this is not being represented your name doesn't have to be represented and then we're saying a person could be a person or corporation so. My question is. By this bill saying at the very top of it that it's not gambling. And. And. The general public being able to receive prizes. Couldn't someone. Take advantage of the state take advantage of kids who would be participating. And turn it into a any gambling enterprise that we have no idea what's going on and couldn't get control of. Once it's online. Yeah that happened even if that's not what we're trying to do correct and it's it's the unintended consequences and the breadth of the of the legislation without regulation that that creates the problem thank you. And committed to whatever my dad and me and to catch up for the fight we will have an opportunity for discussion on the bill so let's try to just let's try to ask questions and committed to move if we can reserve Alan to next in the queue. Thank you thank you Mr chairman let's go back to apparatus what would prohibit me from the seven out of the establishing a goal stopper racial. And what I mean by that I can give a group of my friends and we can say well we gonna organize this tournament it once we organize this tournament we have several hundred people in there in the term if we charge two hundred dollars to set it up what happens if we decide to take the money and not have the time what kind of recourse will the state of Arkansas no one would know who you were that there's no registration required under this bill to be a licensed operator in a conductor of the game so no one would know who is conducting the game so. Follow up very quickly. What what can we do. To prevent this from happening. Well if you're wanting to do something like this it would be even worse let's have to craft the legislation that would limit it to the types of things that you're really wanting some sports activities were people are playing putting money up limiting the prize is limiting the frequency place so you're doing something that that isn't going to turn into or morph into an online casino gaming operation so that the main thing would be to have some state regulatory or law or licensing if you're going to do paid prizes you know if you're not doing of paid prior paid entry fees or prizes or stuff. Then you would necessary that would be less of an issue but once you start. Putting prizes entry fees without limits on what those present these are there's no regulatory aspect one quick question this is something that the sponsor the bill could incorporate in his bill. That same someone could craft a bill that would would would do what it most people are wanting from a standpoint of a traditional a sports activity with someone that you know that's actually registered and you could have some regulatory aspect to the someone to to deregulated thank you Mr. Thank you Hodges you're recognized. Representative Richardson okay. Okay thank you for your testimony thank you. Next we have a login Horton to speak for the bill. In Conway Arkansas I've worked in the state as an educator with at U. sports that is my focus for the past seven years. As an educator I have seen first hand the positive impact that you sports can have on students the experience on the share the day is personal one I adopted under McKinney vento I adopted a student when he was in his senior year and twenty eighteen twenty nineteen law teaching high school history. I adopted Kevin to help is complete as education if you're not familiar with McKinney vento it allows teachers to students have a rough home life or exceptional circumstances that educators can care for them. E. sports provided an inclusive environment for Kevin he was part of an an alternative learning program not because he was necessarily a a bad kid as they are often labeled but because he was a military kid he had lived all over the globe and never had a traditional learning environment. It Kevin Gage and. The captain engaged and motivated and three sports Kevin was able to develop essential skills this is a kid that was not going to graduate from high school not only did he not have the motivation but he didn't have the great state in order to compete in the sport so it was a an aide a grade requirement those GPA requirements. I. Hi. Kevin was able to develop the skills and we. Through playing on a team through eight U. sports title called rocket league which is essentially soccer with cars he was able to develop not only the skills but compete at a high level and through that you was able to make make connections and and find a a community that he was able to become a part of it not only did that community support him but he now works in Illinois he makes more money than I do hi he is doing just fine and he was hired because of that game in those skills that he was able to to gain in that program. He supports is an effective tool we. I by coach six days a week these these kids that the game of of of skill and. it it's such as positive impact we talk as educators about having students that fall through the cracks and this is the ability they catch them and give them something they're passionate about supporting this supporting this bill allows. Those kids they continue to compete and preserve that activity. I thank you for your for your time thank you would you accept questions from the committee absolutely person while you're recognized. Thank you Mr I apologize Sir I didn't. Note your name but you are in the a teacher and you had a student that's had a very positive experience can you and maybe this is says questions for the sponsor why do we need to define this as not gambling it has there been a problem. It lives in a gray area in education since I work in education I can't Can't recruit I don't feel feel safe and that bility the hold tournaments the last. And in December I held that triple a the the state championship for the triple a and had three hundred kids come out and show show up for for that term. It it would help. Give students that opportunity it's being competed in right now all over all over the globe. And. I'm sorry I'm getting. Getting tripped up the It is gambling it is employing a a concern I mean why why do we need to define it is not gambling protecting that the prices of the players those prices can come in and scholarships or various forms but it protecting those because without those I would have a lot of that the thousands of kids that I've taught and coached over the years that that wouldn't get to go E. sports is growing rapidly at almost twenty five percent a year and. Is. Protecting these these kids their opportunity to go to college there opportunity to to a gain in income of. That. I work on the academic side so that okay we'll just one quick short questions and then I'll stop so this really this E. sports really falls under the bottom of the bill of stem education does it not is that not something that we're trying I mean that to me it's what I hear a lot about is encouraging children to our students to get involved in stem education and this seems like a fun way to engage them absolutely I speak it hits the the hot springs educational institute every year on the sports and stem and it is they go hand in hand teaching kids essential life skills their communication and teamwork thank you. Thank you SO four hours you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair referred I'm sorry Logan court okay administer court. thank you for what you do and I'm I think that your story that Kevin with laudable and compelling. And It's so that was did Kevin play here in Arkansas yes and if he could scholarship or he did not go to college you know that is community through. So I guess my question would be if he was able to thrive here and play. yes without the legislation. Could he have done that and could have gotten a scholarship. The yes. So if you could share with us what we would be protecting if he could get a scholarship. And he was able to thrive and playing video games and then determines or whatever and now he's successful which I love the story. Why would we what with the legislation to for other kids and what would be protected if he can do it now. In twenty eighteen there were. Bye I've I helped host the first season of play verses in the triple a and the first season that we had in Arkansas the academic you support yeah there were. Eight schools I think that we had to compete today we have eighty and that at the rate that it's it's. It's a growing that. To do in. To do nothing seems. There is a. I'm sorry could you wonder what what the what the threat is to the scholarships because it sounds like you know Kevin was successful without any legislation it sounds like what by what you just said that they thought determines in the field is growing and and it's thriving without the legislation so what with the legislation be protecting kids from in terms of losing scholarships. In terms of scholarships and. Thank you okay with. Committee just to make it one where it's approaching eleven we have never we have other bills wait we're gonna try to here today so what's the answer questions but let's let's try to move forward represent Johnson is next in the queue yes Mister Jordan so if I understand what you're trying to explain correctly and and you can just answer the question that you might feel uncomfortable is a law abiding citizen organized internet that isn't clearly stated in the law is not being gambling it does to me right to the importance of this bill is to empower people are trying to do the good things that you're doing with our students to be able to host these tournaments with a clear conscience with the confidence that you're not gonna be prosecuted some point for gambling it seems to me like what this bill is trying to do is empower you to do those things in a way that that is clearly not illegal is that the intent of this bill yes Sir thank you. Thank you reddit rose you're recognized yes thank you Mr Martin thank you for your work and I would also enjoy the story about Kevin my son is twelve and beats me in rocket league pretty regularly so I have some experience there up being able to have as representative Johnson just mentioned more of these tournaments that are more incentivized with this create more exposure and allow the students more opportunities to either be come professional gamers or go to college and become college gamers absolutely I I primarily recruit in person and a lot of those would be tournaments right now outside the high school high school. So should this legislation pass as representative Johnson's and give you more clarity and be able to host tournaments other schools being able to host similar term it would create more exposure more opportunities for the students absolutely yes Sir thank you. Thank you action within your next in queue. Rooting into an area that there's apparently from questioning by representative brown that there's there's been no influence there's been no of gambling. Claims there's been no of violations that we know of course this doesn't have anything to do with control I mean I'm just having a problem wine the General Assembly we will go on record and in and supporting or not supporting video games. Kevin was able to succeed without this law right. And what what would keep you from recruiting students. If we. Do or do not pass this law. There's a there's a lot more students out there than just Kevin and not every. Kevin has. The the opportunity that he got this this law is going to give them more opportunities absolutely Hauser because it clarifies what hi can president of what I can host. Well has there been a problem. Is it heavily has any of these video people been accused of gambling. Could you send me one because we're of someone's been accused of gambling with video. I hadn't not off the top of my head. So so we're we're we're. It's an intrusion into an industry that apparently there's been no blatant disregard. According to your testimony and you're involved with the law databases. Twenty four seven. I thank you for showing up I feel like I feel like we're getting work done in this state I think he's answered the question of times any further questions by the committee. Regulating and recognition of Mr warden so. You actually coach high school teams in this sport this is this type of activity. I doubt it. So if you're coaching a sports team in a tournament how's that different than the football coach coach and a football team. Okay so it's almost the same thing. A lot of the different positions that you have to master hi there You know it's it's a lot like W. W. Walker the Bill. Comments and their their skills so you get the players you practice you hone their skills they play against other team someone any other sport correct. so. Why would the gambling Community be here to speak against what you're wanting to do I don't understand why they're opposed to that. Do you have any ideas. So would have been a lot Mr Glassman more questions. So there's a lot of gray area when it comes to online. There is a. One. For. The other. So the difference is the media and there's been some concerns about that being gambling. Would you agree with that. I'm. The difference in your support in football is the media that you use the online that you're using the internet and there have been instances confusion records about that being in. The five. And see in football you would necessarily. Necessarily. C. H. and two thousand dollars but in the NCAA tournament that I I play in the they operate a Scholarship. A monetary yeah hi. And that's where I feel like you. when. Receive that prices that. Thank you thank you Mr thank you so much saying no further questions by the committee thank you for your testimony we appreciate you Dr Jon prices signed up next to speak for the bill. House. That occurs. Our little bit of of. I Y. support house bill one three four nine before assuming my current position of U. sports manner at the Ohio State University I spent nearly five years Henderson state university assistant professor of communications and as its first E. sports director during my time in Arkansas I founded the first collegiate E. sports program in the state and work with fellow Eastport advocates such as coach Orton to have the Arkansas activities association recognized the sport is a party level activity in the high school level at which they did in the spring of twenty nineteen. During my ten years working E. sports at the collegiate and professional level I've been fortunate to meet students parents coaches teachers and community members from all walks of life and positively influence by this create activity I was also part of a company that started in two thousand fourteen with only five members and that by the time I left to come here to Arkansas had over fifty members and had a daily usage on the website focused on professional E. sports over nine million of viewers and five hundred thousand unique visitors a month and what I found during my time in this activity is that you don't necessarily need to understand what BDO games even are to be to see the benefit that you sports has you ever listen to a child except we talk about the hobby passion or even simply what happens at a school of practice that day you know how much simply showing interest in what they care about in effect them in a powerful way that is what it's the hard part of house bill one three four nine and recognition and acknowledgment emerging field community an activity that is already having a positive impact in communities across the state of Arkansas. One story I'd like to share with you as a former student minding Carlos during the senior year of every player I work with I interview them about their time at the university in the program Carlos is a Henderson graduate and member and was a member of the sports program during my time there I remember distinctly asking him about his time in the program it is answers when I will always remember he explained to be bluntly that he never planned to make friends are involved in self in college late after stepped on campus it was only after finding the support program they felt connected to a community of like minded individuals who became close friends even lifelong compare companions during post this time with the program he met Abby or moms all the players Kalter through their shared interest in E. sports they found each other welcome to daughter into the world and will finally be able to celebrate their marriage in person with friends and family this March interestingly enough Abby's NO a teacher in Texas in overseas in Eastport program for all for a school with grades ten through of K. through ten is another example of just how quickly you sports is growing in this country in the state of Arkansas and I've heard the stories countless times of students were failing in school and have no patience for learning suddenly discovering the sports and turning it into an academic career teacher unable to connect the call their students and classroom using video games as part of a lesson plan tonight those the passion students who never beforehand shortness of the list goes on I respectfully ask you to support this bill and by doing so you're sending a message of recognition and encouragement to the greater resource unit that that Arkansas is a state that welcomes innovation personal improvement and support those for working to build upon amending foundation that has already been laid by others I thank you for your time thank you actually region recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair of could you would you mind just explaining or given us the breakdown of what an E. sports term it looks like I'll probably those traditional model is there will be a Teague fee of some sort since five U. five or three P. three are very common format so we're talking about fifty to a hundred dollars and inside it that to participate in the tournament that money usually there's a prize of some sort one three three or so and the use of bracket system or pool play system that you would see in almost any athletic picked up tournament or something that even up the YMCA or the like so the format of these tournaments and the participants that are in the are using structures that a party been in place and the even the different ways in which the terms are regulated and run that pulled directly from professional sports. One quick follow up so these tournaments I've seen them happen they can all I've seen them in one large room right how often do those happen or or all the all from remote locations what were most common in the terms most common in the State of Arkansas I'd say I would be in person tournament specially in some of the different communities like the super smash brothers in like in there but there are many different types and such one of the things that happens those for many of these games now As you all where when you buy a piece of software it's no wonder you actually only this piece of software you're buying a license and you have to be online in order to even play the title and so part of the reason this is a little confusing is there is this great area of where even the place of the games you have to be online in some way shape or form even if you're in the same room in person it's one of those unfortunate aspects of how modern gaming is lake and that's one of the reasons why this is so complicated is it's not just simply you know both having a. A old snaps and sitting together to do something to help you playing now you literally just to turn on the console have to have internet connections to be able to do anything and so that's one of the reasons why it gets a little complicated. Thank you thank you. No further questions from the committee. One or more questions represent first yes quick question you may I know the answer to this and I have to wait for representative right did you know if any that the state has a similar law like this. No I this is actually one of the other interesting aspects of the bill is there's very little actual legislation in the country that governs it even found the federal level for example these sellers are recognized sports normally uses sports or entertainment he says are often used for E. sports competitors that come to the country to compete intermittent estate they have entire teams that are and with millions of dollars and determines your the country they come from around the world to compete because public similar price points are on the professional level. Thank you thank you thank you for testimony thank you. With one last person signed up Ron Norris would you come to the table. Mr Norris if you would please introduce yourself and who you're with. Yes Ryan Norris state director for Americans for prosperity were very interested this bill because as you know we're free market people and we are not afraid of letting free people do things that they enjoy and even make a profit off of it what is really interesting is when you know and again that's all fine but what ended ends up happening is that if I don't have a financial interest I shouldn't be really jumping too much into somebody else's business as well but what I would like to say about this bill is that there a hundred and eighty million voters in the United States that that game they're very interested in legislation watching this there are two million gamblers they have issues so when you look at a hundred and eighty million interested people burst verses the the gamblers that that are identified in the United States ten million was the highest number I saw you could see that this is an issue Arkansas needs to get correct it has education implications and what we're doing a lot of time saying well what about Kevin was he harmed in this world Kevin was harmed but he wasn't helped because he also didn't have an outlet for his passion and his self actualization to monetize that passion someone can go on right now and continue on in high school to be on a fishing team a rodeo team and then go on into a professional sport as you heard from Mr Martin he has anxiety about hosting tournaments because they are in a great area that have not been declared not gambling yet and so that's why we need to clarify this is not gambling that's the simplicity we're not changing gambling laws we are just saying that someone who creates a tournament a tournament that is heavily officiated by the way by individuals and it is also online is a we can follow these tournaments people are watching and people who get caught they can get caught cheating. By the officials and sometimes even by the president the those that are there in the audience observing so tournament that is it that is nefarious should there be one those individuals are well known if you watched up in Wisconsin recently there was a gentleman winning tournament after tournament for fishing and found out he was stuffing with lead weights they almost had to call law enforcement to pull him away because those fishermen was so upset that they've been taken advantage of by a cheater these games are even more so officiated because you have someone that's looking in real time at what each of the gamers are to doing they know the game's upside down and backwards and therefore they notice when there is a glitch in the matrix of those games so again this bill would differentiate Arkansas among the hundred among the fifty states because no one has directly said that Hey these tournaments can't you know can't happen as it can be to consider not gambling okay so what what comes up is this is that we could be the first to the nation with the most robust piece of legislation despite being only about three pages that defines and protects what he sports actually is this would be a boon to Ark hospitality associations places that do not have casinos could host these tournaments and have the benefits of hotels and restaurants being filled and not all of us in our counties in November and county where I'm from I would love to have a casino up there to help boost our economy that's not the way the cards cards went so this is something that I could host in the middle of the Ozarks and people would come to to participate not only in the game but they could actually pay to be a part of the audience so don't this has a broad scope and impact to our economy there's this guy again we're seeing people that are receiving scholarships their H. one B. visas as far as the tax implications. Very if you are making an income off of a organized tournament and you have a created your own business then you're gonna be paying business taxes on that there will be administrative fees that are considered to be part of that income for hosting that time it's a profits to realize about that you would do we would receive individual corporate income tax from so with everything said really what this is about is that by not addressing this we are limiting the self actualization and the income potential of those that are actually passionate about this to turn into professionals and to create income I know about you but I get a little nonplussed every now and then when I'm on you too but I see an eight year old doing an unboxing of twenty or something and realize that that kid is made eight million unregulated dollars. When I try to do the best I can to provide for my family so this is a really unique place and I don't disagree with that but we should embrace change and embrace innovation in the state of Arkansas and support house bill thirteen forty nine. Thank you Mr nor certain flowers recognized for a question. Hi thanks for the thank you Mr chair it. Throughout this discussion I've heard about it leases in people being able to come over and play in tournaments we've heard about the you just mentioned hotels could host these tournaments and that millions are already being made we heard about Kevin story we've heard That. Determines have doubled. In this state and all of that has happened without legislation and so my question is. What would this legislation due to hamper free enterprise because it I have I've started out ready to vote for the bill until I noticed the possible loophole of gambling actually occurring under this legislation that's the only thing I'm concerned about yeah yes so to that point you Sir you're you're asking that if we've been able to do some without the legislation right hold it well we just heard the attorney for the casinos set out here in state under the you know right now we could go and create all kinds of things without this legislation that's considered to be gambling and this bill again is about the individual participants in here it's not about those that are extraneous to the process they're not providing their skill sets to it and again we heard from from Mr warden that there is anxiety because if they were to conduct this in the casinos decided that Hey you have this paid time and going on and we think it's part of gambling in the definition that they have is different from the definition that we have in the bill they could bring them to court and hold them liable if you think someone who thinks they're having competition. Wouldn't do that hi there I don't know that there's a bigger advocate in the legislature for tourism in terms of bills that have been proposed and passed them myself. And. What I heard earlier was the attorney reference that those in in those instances it would be illegal so I guess I'm still wondering if we're seeing millions being made and the growth in the industry. And if there to representative Why my brain fighting Thark you can what you heard that the question asked and answered that there have been no allegations of gambling so I'm wondering like I never even thought about it being and we have no legislation that covers or recognizes any other tournaments in the state so if there are no allegations of it why is anybody even having to say it's not gambling if it's not gambling and nobody's saying it's him yes well that's because of online gambling laws the way that those are written debt could conflate someone using electronic sports games of skill like you sports and so so when you're doing electronic gaming you're using similar technology to that of online gambling and so someone wanted to say Hey we think there's enough in the law to make a case against the E. sports organizers and call that gambling they could and though we talk about millions of dollars those millions of dollars have not been realized in the state of Arkansas they didn't realize in other states as soon as the Arkansas starts getting to the level of making tens of millions of dollars all of those that would have an interest in that pot of money will be coming to the table asking for you know Hey let's make sure that this isn't this is considered either gambling or not gambling and what's our peace in our cut in this and that could be the state you know states already done this with fantasy sports very similar kind of concept other than there's more. less skill and actually more random chance in that then there is in this we were actually playing against each other thank you so much thank you thank you thank you there no further questions by the committee Mr Norris thank you protest make you very much. President ray if you would like to return to the table. Okay thank you Mr chair and committee members thank you so much for your patience I when I asked to put this bill on the agenda yesterday I did not anticipate this level of discussion and debate but I appreciate everyone's thoroughness and your and your time and attention and I really do appreciate that I I just want to recap a couple of points about this bill Again this is this is not gambling this is simply participation in a tournament just like you would participate in a golf tournament where there's an entry fee just where they're just like a fishing tournament or rodeo or derby yeah there's been a lot of discussion about the online nature of this you know video games nowadays are not like they used to be when I was growing up as a kid you don't just plug two controllers into a box and and play anymore it by nature of how video games work now a lot of this stuff is online this is a burgeoning industry that is taking place all across America in states as I mentioned in my testimony or even using economic incentive dollars to attract these kinds of tournaments to our state so in my opinion we ought to be welcoming nascent industries to our state signaling that we're open for business that that they can operate here with the legal certainty that somebody's not gonna come after I'm just because they host a tournament where people compete against each other playing video games I think there's there's been some good discussion on this bill And Yeah I guess I guess I'll say. I feel comfortable with where this bill is that and I know there's been some great discussion and debate but at this point I'm I'm close for the bill and will at Committee decide what to do with it. Thank you represent or a regular rate has closed for his bill what are the wishes of committee this time. Representive Johnson has made a motion do pass that is a proper motion at this time to any discussion on the motion. Though discuss. Okay represent flowers has discussion on the motion to pass I'm sorry I have to say this. I read the bill at the top of this meeting and as I mentioned before I was prepared to vote for it because I do see the implications in terms of innovation I'm very concerned and by the way I want to say that while there is a casino in my county for anybody who doesn't know I was not supportive of the way that they came to my county and I'm still not excited about the level of communication and support for communities and what was promised so I wanted to be clear nobody has called me to not support this bill. I don't think it's a bad bill. But I do think that it's missing some protections because I do see some gaping holes where this this can be used to be to turn these tournaments into gambling enterprises and. The language that. Stipulates that there could be prizes given to the general public if that language could be changed and the bill could stipulate that gambling on these video games and determines would be illegal I would speak for the bill supported would love to be a co sponsor but without that I cannot vote for at this time thank you thank you as a close any further discussion on the motion. Senate education I'll just I'll say that if if I were a person charged with organizing term is to try to encourage participation I would want clarity that I was not breaking the law and I think stop pulling those tournaments by not making that clarity is hampering the ability for these kids to have access to for this terms you grow these tournaments are happening right now there is no regulation and it hasn't been a problem that I'm aware of I mean there are lots of illegal gambling problems in the state of Arkansas I don't know that this is a particular hot spot for that if it becomes a hot spot I mean there's no reason why we as a group of legislators can't come back with a different bill and and regulate that but in this particular doctors I see this bill this is just simply saying to people that are organizing these tournaments you're not breaking the law this is okay we supports organizing this term as a that's why meditation do pass as well be support the bill thank you they are Johnson record wooden recognized. Thank you Mr chairman first of all let me say make it very clear I'm opposed to gambling in any shape form or fashion casino. Whatever. But here we are intruding into an industry prescribing held but who can and how we can participate and and there's been no problem so witnesses and even testified that there's been no problems so I just see is going into an area you know whose income that we're going to have to say physician determined so rodeos the stock market game. Is not gambling. Whenever one of us in around this table I imagine own stock. So under under this under stating that we're intruding into an area that we don't need to be going into it this time because there's been no allegations of wrongdoing. Thank you Mr thank you representative wouldn't any pharmacy any further any further discussion on the motion revenue road session on the motion do pass. Yes I echoed representative written statement I am totally opposed to gambling as well which is why I'm supporting this bill stating that E. sports gaming is not gambling thank you. Okay see no further discussion on the motion we have a motion do pass by represent Johnson all in favor say aye. Popo se NO. Graduation you pastor bill. Thank you Mr chairman thank you any. What well you're recognized. That is correct senator Wallace excuse me if. In a in a coach. Cofidis Bill yes so you are the House sponsor if you would introduce yourself and have your witness introduced herself and proceed with S. B. ninety eight yes Sir Committee the representative John have Arkansas District thirty six today I bring to the to bills with actually the first one is Senate bill ninety eight which is dealing with the benefits of burial associations many many many folks pay burial insurers to of funerals and across the state of Arkansas have thousands of on and what this bill is basically far if a person goes from one location but let's just say Texarkana to Mountain Home and there continue to pay burial insurance at the home where they started that they would be protected by the by by the insured by the mother company Sir and and I have missed some Amanda Gibson let her dignified herself issues will give you a break down exactly what this bill does thank you to introduce yourself to your within proceed with the testimony yes my name is Amanda Gibson I'm the managing attorney of the Arkansas insurance department I'm also the attorney for the board that regulates funeral homes. And this bill is needed it because currently the law only references that payment percentage which is one hundred percent this bill is sensation memberships which were issued after nineteen eighty seven. Aerial association membership certificates issued up points prior to nineteen eighty seven are payable at different percentages which is why the clarification as and is needed now the reason why this is coming up at this time. Is that because a lot of those people who bought burial association memberships prior to nineteen eighty seven are now passing away. And the reason why there have been different payment percentage rates prior to nineteen eighty seven is because those rates have changed over the years as a result of changes to burial associations bylaws and also because of agreements in place between at different beryl associations these differing Percentage rates I have not ever been in the law which is probably where they should have been and those agreements cover govern how much the contract funeral home is willing to pay on the certificate to the servicing funeral home so this is when a consumer as a representative of rice said when a consumer decides to have the funeral services not at the funeral home that issued the barrel Association certificate but he may want to take you know have the service done at another funeral home. So the differing payment percentage rates in the bill that they reflect the language in the barrel associations bylaws and in the agreements between the different burial associations that were in effect during the different time periods so from those issued between nineteen fifty three which is when burial associations or first regulated until in nineteen sixty seven and then the next time period for those issue between nineteen sixty seven and nineteen seventy six and then the final two time periods were at the that is issued between nineteen seventy six and nineteen eighty seven and then as I stated earlier there's issued in nineteen eighty seven and later that are at the heart that a hundred percent percentage rate payment rate. And I'll be happy to answer any questions thank you for testimony to questions about the committee. Members I represent Brown to recognized. Thank you Mr chairman Are we talking about when you say burial association rights. I really don't know how that works but I do know is that like a prepaid funeral that is basically life insurance it is similar to a pre arrangement or pre paid funeral and that these are typically I believe smaller amounts policies lots of times and you're going to have a certificate of burial associations certificates amount the total maybe five hundred dollars and you know so I mean these are the kinds of certificates are issued that people pay maybe two dollars a month on this is a much sort of lower at. Lower cost I guess product then and even then your tip typical life insurance policy so it. So it's costs less than up of a fully paid up prearranged funeral in yes yes it does. The only example I know of is one that was purchased in. A seventy or eighty is for six thousand dollars. And of course that money was invested in it should have grown considerably by the end by now so I'm just really not that set so these associations that that page that I could by joint association I would pay my monthly or annual dues. With the intention of being buried at that cemetery is that how it generally works yes that's how it generally works and and as we all know people may do you know about this state and at the time of need or you know at the time the decedent passes away and that the students loved ones may decide to hold the services at another funeral home. So we just talking services are we talking about the burial at well but that the whole thing okay yes thank you. Thank you as a parent thank you Mr chairman of the committee burial associations do we have still Arkansas I I'm not sure about the Senate announcmenet might client is telling me a hundred and thirty one hundred thirty one okay yeah I believe that Mr Akers he's an audience I got to and. Adam the hundred thirty one how many do you know approximately how many policies that are still. Affected by this I'm I'm I don't Mr Akers and would be able to testify to those details in lieu the lastly but there are these are usually small policies are they strictly for service or is that also for merchandise I believe it can be for for merchandise yes so what happens I'm sorry go ahead I was gonna and maybe try to explain that the difference between that funeral homes so the way this works is if I take out a burial associations policy with funeral home Hey and then fifty years later I dye my family decides to have the services that funeral home be correct well so what say that my policy is paid up for five hundred dollars so then if you don't have B. as going to give my family a credit of five hundred dollars and then they're going to be reimbursed from funeral home Hey so if you don't home be can can keep those funds because party given the credit to the consumer or they can ought to and you know give those funds to the consumer on top of the credit they've they've already given so. I'm glad you brought that up so if the funeral home be sense and in the funeral home based on the given credit to the given credit at a hundred percent or is it the percentages in the bill it's going to be the percentages in the bill so if my membership was taken out if I took out that certificate after nineteen eighty seven it's going to be a hundred percent but if it's any during any of those prior time periods before a nineteen eighty seven it's going to be the percentage that was in place either and the language of the certificate itself for under the agreement between the parent association a funeral home eight and the peril association if your home state. Okay and then so if it's for merchandise usually sometimes funeral home a will only allow you to use merchandise from funeral home be even though funeral home make funeral may even though you to services being performed by funeral home B. three hundred miles away. We kinda just left with nothing on that side of it that's the downside to that well I mean that that I think the whole point is is to give the consumer a credit you know when when they decide to use a different funeral homes so that with the consumer is not out those funds. Okay thank you Mr chairman. Thank you any other questions by the committee. Lundstrum you're recognized for a question. About that the credit between the and funeral homes. Yeah. servicing fear how whether or not to retain that fines or get to the family. Well that that funeral home baby is going to receive those funds from funeral home at a funeral home be is is giving a credit to the consumer. And knowing that they're going to be reimbursed from funeral home Hey so if your home be hand ought to keep those funds because they've already given that the credit to the consumer or on top of the credit they've already given to the consumer they may opt to get those funds to the consumer. Thank you. Opposing the further questions by the committee thank you for your testimony. Okay. Represent Lundstrum if you could could you could use your Mike. Hello this this is a question from a constituent House this funeral home association has it not infringing on a contract. At well it doesn't infringe on any. I don't know that I understand that the question the context of the question if is it changing a contract anyway. Well I mean that. But. The contract is the burial associations certificate that the member that the constituent or that the consumer takes out and then you know it's after the consumer's death that the family just may not want to use that that particular funeral high and I mean I don't think that you know people should be forced to use a funeral home that they don't want to use of you know if I want to and use a different if you don't have for that for the services. I. The distance thank thank you any further questions. The same and thank you for testimony. Sir. Is there anyone would like to speak for or against this bill there's no one signed up but I want to ask. Okay saying no one other further questions by the committee president right this time. Yes close with the bill for okay okay pressurise close for his bill what are the wishes of the committee. I have a motion do pass by representative Ladyman as a proper motion and discussion on the motion. Okay all in favor motion do pass say aye. It It pose no. Graduations you've passed your bill thank you. You might as well stay there and when the next one okay SP ninety nine go and proceed. Mr chairman I thank all that are just going to explain the whole thing yes Sir yes thank you Sir okay at this bill is much more straight for straight forward that SP at ninety eight bill associations currently have to submit that to report every year to the to the board that regulates them they submit an annual report and fifty and then they submit a semi annual report which does not require a fee this at this bill and does away with that with that mid year report it well and reduce the burden on small those small businesses those burial associations and you know not having to submit that report and because there's no fee associated with that report there's no loss of revenue and also and you know there's less regulatory administrative time spent on on those make your reports. Thank you for testimony any questions by the committee. No questions there anyone who would like to speak for against this bill. Saying no one what are the wishes of the committee recognized me resident Perry you're recognized for motion. Motion to pass there was a parent's or discussion on the motion. No discussion all in favor of motion do pass say aye. Any opposed no. Resolution passed both the builders have we thank you very much Sir thank you. The person you're recognized for S. P. one eleven. That sounds like a great idea it's it doesn't require anyone to paid family leave just as an insurance product that employers can buy is a benefit to pay a family related some in if someone takes it but when I came back to because you know as employers are looking into ways to attract employees with benefits you know you've been for one K. easy disability insurance you know with this is just a news benefit you can offer to employees but when I came back and talked to the insurance department they city would actually require statutory change for them to be able to provide this product it just allows any insurance company that's in life or disability insurance to sale paid family and medical leave insurance. Thank you for the purpose there any questions by the committee. None no one signed up to speak for against this bill. Say no one would you like to close for your bill and and close them they do pass. Rosa Parks is closed she is where this committee that the proper motion do pass all in favor say aye. In a pose no graduation a pastor bill thank you Committee. The question Johnson you're recognized to present your bill. S. B. one forty one is that. Yes. You may proceed thank you Mr chairman representative Lee Johnson district forty seven and that this is what is bills within the bill does exactly what the title says this just clarifying the fact that we do have been statue right now a prioritization Transparency Act this is making it clear that if you have if you're an insurance company that has subscribers physically located in the state our law applies to you regardless of whether you as a company have a physical location state this is the same thing as we do with telehealth you know if you're receiving telehealth the physician or provider has to be licensed in your state and comply with your state laws so this is just clarifying that issue and I'd be happy to try to answer any questions. Thank you represent Johnson any questions by the committee. Okay saying none anyone signed up to speak for against the bill no one. Johnson would you like to close zero I'll close right and shall make a motion to pass a motion to pass by representative Johnson any discussion on the motion saying none all in favor of the motion say aye. They pose no graduation pastor bill Watson Johnson. Maybe I don't I don't believe there's anyone else here to run a bill so thank. The answer to that is negative yes. For the. So thank you committee we got through some bills today I appreciate your patience and do remember we will try to do the picture again next week nine