Energy - Joint

The Joint Energy meeting to order you would find your seats. Thank you all for being here thank you the members of the audience for being here and those who were coming to testify thank you to buy a co chair for being here as well structure you have anything you'd like to. Good all right let's get started if we can let's go ahead and call up the representative from the electric coops to the table let's just have a quick discussion on some topics real quick I do want to thanks to my coach of pointing out the bill on the agenda house bill thirteen ninety five is not going to be run today so if you're here for that bill it is not going to be run in committee today so. If you would gentleman thank you for being here if you would recognize yourselves. I'm Robert shields a senior director of regulatory rates in compliance at Arkansas electric cooperative corporation. Rob Rodale director of corporate communications. Arkansas electric cooperative corporation in Arkansas electric cooperatives Inc. German thank you for being here I don't know do you have any sort of opening remarks during things you'd like to discuss or should we just open it right up to any questions that people might have. Correct I'd like to just start and say thank you for being here one of the things that we've seen and course work we're all hearing I think from folks in our district is just utility rates and and some fluctuations were seen there I know that obviously were in winter months and so obviously you're going to see some of those fluctuations at in that What what are you guys seeing as far as pricing of natural gas and things that might elevate prices for our consumers can you speak to some of that. Thank you I appreciate the opportunity that you're offering me here we are very susceptible to natural gas prices I think what's happening is a foreshadowing what's going to come in the future of were very of the markets. The prices set by natural gas in our company we have to collect our for our fuel costs and it's a direct pass through to all of our ratepayers so because the dollar. It's going to cost law when the bill the people in so that in we don't get any more or any less than that calendar. So. Recently back in December when it got really cold we had a day where we spent twenty five million dollars. On fuel in particular that's natural gas it was early in the morning it intermittent weather dependent resources aren't on at that time and we become if you have a basically a price scarcity event and so you have a natural gas that will be what's being leaned on and it's at that time it was high you know it's you know four to five dollars where you three years ago is probably around two dollars and so that's part of the price pressure people are seen in their their bills. Recognized my culture. Yes where were you finished yes yes I did I My question is is a concern is this. Can you sum up quantified are these give us some direction. The event was really the the that you had as you mentioned was natural gas pricing and you know it was actually be on that in that it was there is one in natural gas you know our previous with the storms So what is from a standpoint of generation how much of yours is natural gas versus now some other sources might be colder. They are something that nature do you have those figures. I would say in coal or probably on energy produced where well over fifty percent I would say gas is probably around thirty percent or a little more and then renewables we have three run of river hydro plants was contracts with hydro we have several win contracts and we have a a solar plant that were in the process of building. Okay so a good talk. It. Sell sell yourself if I'm you're saying about thirty percent is is really subject to the natural gas the others fluctuate like sectors not we and is a code fluctuate a little bit or sometime well there's a couple things that there probably should at the market there's going to be a clearing price of natural gas at the clearing price so even though that call may come in cheaper it's going to clear at the natural gas price that's higher and so that's part of what's driving or thirty percent it's when we have to the market and all this is being traded it's gas it's actually setting the price if that helps. Thank you. Number seven questions I I do have one so if anybody else please go ahead and didn't know I. see representative present late may I go ahead and. What you as your question first. Thank you Mr chairman You're talking about the Purchase price for natural gas and coal. In the coals normally cheaper to buy but what about the cost to process I mean natural gas is pretty much ready to burn coal has a lot of uh process let more labor I believe so can you give us an idea on you know what's more expensive. In processing. I thank you all in all included you know call usually come in around two cents not addresses income or in around four cents. But you make it a great point to deliver it is relieve some of the highest included in call is real the livery there's over the last year there's been rail constraints which causes to actually curtail burning coal during that time in so real actually is a big part of the cost of coal Jonathan may be able to following me he may be able to answer that for you more succinctly than me but Still even with the cost of rail and everything code comes under gas this is you get some pretty big equipment that you're using to dump rail cars the conveyors and that sort of stuff I would think the maintenance cost you quite a bit higher code thank you for that answer. Thank you Mr chairman. I've seen a couple pretty good. As a I've been sent a couple bills recently demonstrating some pretty good spikes in people's from month to month usage is anything we can do in the future to mitigate those spikes for people that are on lower or fixed incomes to make sure that they don't experience those. I think you know we have to be very careful in how we moved solely towards intermittent weather dependent generation ballots not because what usually has to follow it is natural gas because it's working fire quickly into Rick's bows and everybody to that more and more so I think there has to be some C. shares considerations on how we. Do that that's not to say that we shouldn't have solar and wind but it's gonna be balanced properly. And I will say everyone using more electricity we need a law and there's not do we need a mix of everything. I'd like to answer that the energy efficiency aspect is crucial especially for lower income homeowners and people on fixed incomes we respect quite extensively in energy efficiency programs different local co ops in our statewide association those are crucial because that that helps some save energy quite frankly when it's very cold like it was in December he per just simply going to use more and you know when they're supply issue a demand spiked the price of actual grass actually just goes up we require code because that's a dispatcher but the special resource it's actually on site so we have access to it in the amount in that certain times when there's a congestion in the gas. That work pipeline if you would that also causes issues so those are some issues that we have to deal with internally that we're trying to work through as we try to balance of power up for everyone but we're we're very much in tune with those lower income market and since we serve the majority of them I believe in rural parts of the state Sir. I've I've taken advantage of some of those efficiency programs and I think everybody. I know that many people don't know about them is there anything that we're doing and in the course of education for spreading the word on those kind of programs. Yes Sir thank you for the question we have a magazine that's largest circulating publication the state of Arkansas scored Arkansas living magazine it goes to about a half million Arkansas months and it's widely read we promote energy efficiency through that magazine also with local co up six point of purchase materials and we do still have local offices in every county that people actually go through the drive through and we even still provide suckers for the kids when they come through if they wanted or doggie treats for the for the dog that that's what they're in a group I would like to be locally involved with everybody and so we talk about these at all local programs throughout the year and then you know that would fulfill that mission of improving quality of life for those that we serve. Region Ferguson Wellman. Thank you Mr chairman we're talk about price of natural gas it in you you've mentioned this but it fluctuates quite a bit from month to month in certain seasons you know what with the demand. goes up the price goes up obviously But. Do you all know what the impact is you know in areas like Pennsylvania and. Colorado in places where they. May be limited by current policies federal policies which would reduce the supply. So what can the can you measure do you know wizard impact what kind of impact is that on your pricing. And as for the price of natural gas in the same thing that you were mentioning I think there's a gas representative coming up that might actually be able to answer that better on how that on the procurement of the gas of how that affects them. But you see it you see in your purchase price right I mean have you seen any. The impact of the you know any impact on the price that you pay hello there supplying it but I'd I'm not aware of it having any impact on lowering some the things that you mentioned lower our price of gas. Thank you. Representative baby you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair only go back to one of the comments to make certain I understood what you were saying earlier is that the cost that's passed on to Arkansas utility payers is the actual input costs that you're charged for your natural gas that comes through to produce power so you're you're this is not enough charges six exactly that price that's passed known to to the end user is that correct that is correct and is it a written is in real time I mean is it are you on like a thirty day the lagging behind I mean. So that is this the previous month energy that they're paying when they pay the bill our ours it real time for for their bill for that same billing cycle cost we we noticed that rates are projecting downward and yet some of these some of these bills that folks are are calling this about an incentive this messages don't seem to be a greatly increased and and that might also help explain to to some of these folks why these bills keep going up is it it's there's really the price and the cost of the previous months natural gas so could could you clarify that some force sometimes there is a lack of the price that happens and because that sometimes it's delayed by a month or two because of the billing cycle so. Again that for every dollar we are to it is it is passed through directly to and there's no up charge exactly what you pay is what the end user place correct okay thank you. So just follow up on on that question has been sent these questions I've I've seen so the billing that that folks received in it substantially higher than previous what communication are they receiving to let them know I mean obviously you receive a bill you know you're you know in the winter months there's probably going to be an increase just because of you rate usage and things of that nature but what are what are you guys doing to make sure that that's clearly communicated what is going to be a substantial increase like some of the ones we're seeing. Yes we're very proactive in that area two weeks after winter storm Yuri we we in enacted a program where we warn consumers at a time when it's going to be very cold and just try to ask to conserve the best they can during those times of extreme winter weather when the price we know the process of natural gas is probably going to Speicher go up somewhat with little know in advance to expect that and to be aware of that and be aware of that that's in several forms such as by the direct mail email campaigns or or social media. Culture yes. So my question. We're saying it's a feel passed so you're talking about an adjustment per kilowatt. A fuel costs on the kilowatt that's that's associated with the actual costs that you pay for the fuel correct. Is that correct. Yes it be on a kilowatt hour basis right what I'm so I'm sorry so. On your make up and I don't. What percentage of your power is would you say is you purchased offer the wholesale market forces power that you actually generated. Technically everything we end up with to serve on lotus actually purchased through the market we generate into the market so everything is initially is is purchased from the market that. When you bring loading into the market you have to have generation that can match it and so we're generating inputted into the market so technically what we're generate not necessarily actually going to our customers it's just going into the market. But everything's clear in the market in this gas that setting the price so technically it all countries like putting something in a Cup of water into the bathtub and a pull nother Cup out it's hard to tell really get where it came from. That if I understood you correctly are saying that you are generating equal in terms of kilowatt hours to megawatt hours to what you're pulling off for you that that was the number I was trying to get that do you generate more new pole offered by the person not not exactly because of our generation of what to be in bed and if it's too high it won't clear the market only things that are generator things that are gonna clear there and come in at the clearing price or below. I'm not. In the trunk verify what is probably. Basically we there were about we're a day ahead market reviewed and process to produce power and that's that's goes to outlook if it's a regional transmission organization which were a member of my so and S. PP. Mmhm so we will build all of our plants and what they can produce that eccentric Satcher that's that's done the day before and our plants are instructed when to run and how long to produce however much power we've been asked to produced by the regional market so that regional markets like an air traffic controller for power plants okay so that I guess what I'm getting at nine I'll let someone else ask questions you the manager generating is not necessarily directly connected to the amount that you're purchasing off of the system to be distributed could probably closer thank that is that yes yes there is a reason for that is I'm sorry okay the reason for that is to ensure reliability. Formed from members throughout the state make sure to maintain highlight reliability and ensure cost it out see if its bid likens certain regional transmission organization includes fourteen states that's insuring your using the most efficient power source in those fourteen states at the best cost. Thank you. The representative body recognized. I just want to follow up again I guess really a basic lesson in supply and demand for the Arkansas consumer because most of your utility players they're in control of one thing and that's. What Temp they said and how long that they allow that system to run. So what steps are you taking or what steps would you take to educate the Arkansas consumer in what outside factors impact the amount of their utility bill and how can you educate and and maybe communicate that through your your communications and billing. Sir. On that's part of that's for sure that's my job so I can tell you pretty clearly we always up up the communications prior to what we know it's going to be extreme weather whether it's hot or cold by the way because in the summertime you know you have people that do the same thing they just turn the knob a different direction of fits a Google a thermostat or Amazon thermostat to use the phone to change it but you have to remind them that the power you use today will be on the bill you receive next month and you will remember how cold or hot it was thirty days from now that's a key piece with that the other thing is to push the energy efficiency once again last winter for instance I can tell you that many consumers supplement their heat with with electric space heaters. And that is a energy hogs so to speak and can really make a huge difference on your bill. Follow. I guess I would be more specific I'll be more specific with my question if I understood originally you're talking about one of the one of the largest contributors these increase and in fees an increase and bill was the natural gas costs and the fluctuation in natural gas prices and how have you communicated that to your Arkansas in users that that that outside factor that input costs that you negotiate on the market and whatever set how that impacts their utility bill every month. So we've included articles along that line on social media and then the magazine like I mentioned the. It's a check the area. Obligated subject and so we try to be as clear as we can you know if you drive your if you put gas in your car and you drive for the going to use more gas sending with your heater but I understand what you're asking of a note of that too Sir all right thank you. Our members see no further questions unless somebody has one real quick thank you gentleman What we send Ricky did you have a question. You're recognized thank you Mr chairman so when you're producing the power and you make your bed to put it into the grid system. If your bid does not meet their price expectations does that mean you only generate for the amount of time in order to meet that did. Or how do you. The unknown I don't even a problem I'm center right I just. Okay I think so like if you and if I'm not answer questions let me know if like we've been at say six cent market clearing price comes in at four cents at those times we would not be generating if inter Jeez nuclear plant comes in at two cents they're going to get four cents and they're going to be generating okay so you only generate when you know that that power is going to be part that generations can be purchased that's okay thank you very much. Or incentive for the questions thank you gentlemen for being here and up next is Mr John Bethel with energy. You would recognize yourselves for the record. good afternoon Mr chairman members of the committee I'm John Bethel director of public affairs with inter Gee Arkansas and allow my coworker to introduce himself. When I was Central Thompson on the vice president of customer service for Entergy Arkansas. Thank you so much for being here just sort of similar to the same line of questioning just sort of following up after some winter storm events and and other things that maybe led to increased costs for the consumer what what steps are you all going through to help mitigate some of that initial hit to the consumer with with pricing and billing and then One of the other things is what what steps have you all taken as far as recovery from some winter storm events like in my area offense for instance were hit pretty hard with the last winter storm you know took it took a little bit of time to to get everything back and another was a lot of damage but if you would just sort of speak to up some of that if you would please yes Sir I'll I'll start first with the Bills that our customers are seeing and our experiences a little bit different than the electric cooperatives because our fuel and energy cost recovery mechanism is operate similarly to similarly to theirs but ours is set annually rather than monthly and so of every year in and March we make a filing with the public service commission that goes into effect in April and so are energy cost and are purchased fuel costs will show up there and it's set annually so it's it's a smoothed out over an annual period generally unless there's a a significant change in an interim adjustment and so from a a bill level standpoint both customer usage and the and the bills themselves ours have not seen the same level of of variation because of the the stabilization in the fuel recovery mechanism as well as the the generation mix we have a diverse generation mix so we've got a mix of of nuclear coal and natural gas hydroelectric solar and and market purchases as well and so we have the the benefit of being able to use a variety of sources and as as once more expensive one may be less expensive at any given time if one is not available in other may be available so there's some of fuel diversity that helps whether customer bills and so that you know from from our of looking at the data from. Twenty twenty one I mean twenty twenty to twenty twenty three the we've not seen that the. Shark variation in the in the billing levels we we do obviously during the the coldest winter months customers consume more electricity of their heating with electricity their bills higher same thing in the summertime generally when it's hot people are generally consuming more electricity because they're they're they're using more for cooling purposes that speaking from the mostly from the residential customer perspective and and other space heating space cooling. Kind of issue and then of center Gilmore asked about the the winter storm events and we had to of significant bent sub and two consecutive weeks at the end of January at the beginning of February one affected north central Arkansas it was a snow of heavy wet snow and a wind event of a No representative McNair you're part of the state does all of that and then the the those views represent mostly southern Arkansas the the early February your your constituents and you experience the ice storm event that that happened and so been in those events and others are normal practice is to monitor the weather forecast begin to anticipate the the severity of the of the problem and and where it's going to be and then to stage resources of in place to be able to respond as quickly as we can and with the the event that was in January in north central Arkansas of the we were able to to bring in resources and and to respond to that I think the the peak number of outages at one time was somewhere in the then the thirty thousand range and we were able to work to to bring those down of some of the challenges we had in that event were these were fairly remote areas where a lot of the damage was and it was in heavily forested areas where a lot of the damages occurred and so we had to first clear the the downed trees and Liam's so that our workers could then get in and begin to restore power and then we we brought a number of both internal and external resources both interviewing for using the contract crews in and began to to bring power back and I think that event lasted up approximately forty four days was the longest out of death. A customer's experience maybe five and then the following week of there was an ice storm event that affected a large part of of south and south central Arkansas pretty severely again we we were observing the forecast and begin to stage crews of the challenge that that event posed initially was the it was a kind of Wednesday night into a mid day Thursday we had freezing rain continues to fall to a lot of of stress on our system and it puts stress on the ability to respond as quickly because the the event. Kept going and so it it made a little bit challenging getting cruise into place and getting amend to the right place as quickly as possible to respond to that but again we did that in both instances we had to bring in some specialized equipment to be able to deal with the terrain some some standing water of and other issues and so I think in that event we had a peak outage in the fifty five sixty almost sixty thousand customers out at peak in that event I think the longest customers that were out were five days and so we we worked Very hard to do it again in that instance we had to first US gap the areas find the damage clear the debris there was a lot of downed trees a lot of damage and with that event there were some there were several instances where we would have cleared an area and then additional trees fail in the next day and so we were we were having to deal with that as a challenge as well and I think that gives you an overview of of both of those issues by Senator go Gilmore team up and I think that would be prepared to respond to questions you may have. Well thank you first off first again that in the course my area was hit pretty hard I think at one point we peaked at about fifty three thousand and total outage and in a lot of my counties a nurse you have your hands full Richey working through some of that as quickly as you could one of the things that One of the things we brought to my attention and some of this just could have been factors of the ice and and hard to get to places but I know in one instance a nursing home was was delayed receiving power restoration and I think it was you know I think some there is around it had been restored first but it had not and so I don't know if that was just the circuit was on was delayed in getting power restored but as I understand there are protocols in place to prioritize those types of facilities and entities can can you speak to was what some of those protocols are in and maybe not specifically to that issue may not be prepared but just in general to those protocols absolutely so we go through a process of identifying what we call critical infrastructure and critical customers that need to be repaired on a priority and that typically begins with our emergency response hospitals and going to go in that order and then we work with the most heavily populated areas to get customers back on and in that particular instance not familiar with that with that instance but it was probably just. We weren't aware that that particular facility was out or something to that effect but for the most part we proactively review that critical customer list twice a year and or more frequently if we need to and make sure that we've identified those critical customer so that we can prioritize them appropriately. And Fund in on that particular vote when you've mentioned Senator Gilmore we we what we discovered was that circuit was heavily damaged it did require I think there were I can't remove the exact number of polls I know there were a number of poles down and we we work but we do is Mr Thompson mention we follow up a priority a resit restoration into the greatest extent possible will focus on those critical human needs hospitals nursing homes and then emergency response and then also try to focus on bringing the largest numbers of customers back as as quickly as we can. Thank you can we have a question form representative Beatty. Thank you Mr John one thing that that's always been important to me after these incidents more the after action reviews that you conduct internally to know what you did right what you did wrong to take here this first of all I'll say on behalf of the folks in south Arkansas we appreciate the hard work that you guys do to take care of us when we have these storms but I know you learn something you learn something every time we have one of these events and and my problems always been that what you guys learn from these events compared to what the folks in the community learned sometimes that is not communicated all the way down to the the small towns the cities the mayors the folks that are are there on the ground in the community so all on those after after action reviews what do you do to communicate back to the county to know you said you review these critical areas semi annually but to make certain that folks in the community are aware of the things that they could do and and to improve the process in response time to take care of our citizens this is kind of a dual role we have a responsibility of the cities have responsibilities to take your thing so so how is that communicated back and and what could you guys do better to make that clear communication with the folks down on the ground and I can talk a little bit been joking talks more because his team actually does interact with a lot of the the mayors and judges throughout our service territory and that's one area where we try to make sure is with local leadership and and Bills are a state elected representatives and senators but also with our county judges and mayors is to have a good communications and points of contact and what we learned it during this event there were a couple of instances where we had broken the communication link between our our team. And the and the local officials partly because and I know in one instance a a Marion passed away and we had a had to change people serving in that area and we failed to make the the connection between the the new mayor and our new representative in the area we fix that of and those are some things we learned and then where we're also actively involved in keeping the Arkansas department of emergency management informed as far as where the outages are and what we're able to do to provide support and then that way they're able to communicate with the emergency response organizations statewide and so I think that that works pretty well as as well and we we try to have some local level of con a contact. On that front as well but you're you're right each time we find ways to better communicate for example we we're able to use of text messaging and and calls and emails to our customers as far as status of of outages and restoration efforts and then we're also able to provide some of the follow up information to local officials as well and then for our our customers from a billing standpoint we offer some tools on our web page that they can use to better understand their bill and also manage their bill and our communications team also provide some informative information at the beginning of the the heating season in the winter and the cooling season in the summer on steps customers can take to manage their bills and and participate energy efficiency programs and other things of that nature ventro may have something to add to that. Thank John covered a lot of it but the only other thing I'd add is that uh you have the customer service managers who are responsible for a particular service area they're they're they're the main contact for local city and county government and. Before storm during a storm after storm during contact of with those with those with those officials and then in most instances is there are lessons learned that we need to share back we typically get a invite to the city council meeting to a kind of walk through some of those events and tell them what we learn and tell them how we going to do things a little bit different in the future. Well again I want to say thanks for what what you guys did to take care of us I do I do challenge you to have more communication and and not just reach out to to the cities and and small towns when there's been a problem but ongoing communications with your CSRC communications to the local government costs that's that's vitally important and I think that would clear up of a lot of the the small issues that you have when you're trying to deal with a major a major outage in incident especially rule Arkansas so thank you. Yes Sir revision Watson rich recognized because co chair. After having a ten if dissipated Alicia. Workshop in the state of Washington in Washington DC this past year. Again expose deeply into all the different avenues of energy. Got to experience the for the first time we got to do some actual do so rates. Ourself. The question is. Is anybody get serious now finally about nuclear okay we can talk the talk. Of course we know all the different facilities will kind of time period is to. Turning ground get it constructed in our demand. We want to grow our economy. Is is do you know if it if we are getting serious about potential to not only just quit exploring nuclear but finally get serious and potentially go for appreciate to any input yes I thank just on the nuclear front obviously it's an important issue to us as As is injured you Arkansas and his interview corporation because we do rely on nuclear power for a a large part of serving our customer loads here in Arkansas and and throughout our system and so yes Sir that's we we wanted to obviously to maintain the the the facility we have and also as a company are continuing to to watch developments in the nuclear space because our you know leadership is certainly indicated that nuclear is a part of our plans for fuel mix going forward I don't have a particular project our time line as far as when the next nuclear facility would be you know commercially ready to to develop and bring forward for for Arkansas I don't have we don't have a a project identified for that yet but we are continuing to monitor the developments in the field as far as looking for what's the what's commercially viable what's economic what will best meet the needs of our customers in Arkansas and enable us to serve and continue to provide reliable of low cost sustainable power for our customers and nuclear is a key component of that currently and in its plans for our future to do that. Follow the Mr culture. The nuclear facility in a Russell can you refresh my memory as far as the final de commission date when that will be I want to say off top of my head for five more years is closed the license lives current license I believe is twenty thirty four and twenty thirty seven for the two units there and the potential for seeking extensions of those license is is certainly. The potential exists in the opportunity to pursue that exist in that you know that there that is an option so I don't know that I would characterize the license in date is the as the it's not necessarily the de commissioning date of but you would look at the economics of. Love is is a license extension by in the public interest to do that we've not made that determination to my knowledge. Current revision Ladyman. And members I just remind you we do have some more on the agenda so if we can make these two questions brief and then we'll move on. Represent Ladyman. I'll try Mr chairman. But you know we're talking about and and I believe you're right Mr Bethel that the power plant the nuclear plant will be there for a few more years I think you can get an extension there and I think that's. There's a process in I'm sure you all will be able to do that hopefully because we depend on that. but my question is you know we talk about the cost of. natural gas and coal and that sort of thing And availability you know we had the deep freeze down in South Texas a few years ago when that cut off natural gas supply which was unexpected and you know that can happen gases is piped the end so you don't have a big bunch on site code you have you don't have a coal pile but that comes in by rail so that can be cut off but in in the nuclear power production of really you're more protected there I mean you're school source I believe is is more available more on site and I would not think that the cost of that few would fluctuate by natural gas as an example is that is that true. I believe that it is correct that the nuclear fuel prices don't fluctuate the gold prices don't fluctuate as much as natural gas prices do your your accurate the good thing about you mentioned the you know the the severe weather events and in twenty twenty one that had affects Arkansas are you the the reports that were made both by us and other utilities and the and the task force that that looked into that event showed that Arkansas fared well with of the benefit of our investments in a diverse fuel mix to serve our loads which which served Arkansas very well our investments in our distribution and transmission systems helped improve reliability and maintain reliability during a difficult circumstance and then also our participation in the the regional transmission organizations the Midcontinent independent system operator my so in the southwest power pool S. PP we were able to both help our neighbors and and allow our neighbors to help us and I think that interconnection that Arkansas had verses of the lack of that interconnection in Texas certainly played a factor in our ability to submit continue to provide reliable and affordable power even through that have been I think that's that's a that's an important thing for Arkansas both of those the diversity of fuel makes the interconnection and then the the continued investments in making our system more reliable more resilient. And final question to represent Pilkington. Thank you chairman Gilmore it's not so much a question just a comment as representative of district forty five which has Arkansas nuclear one within it I can say a lot of money you'll need to study it is for the economic benefit of the community keep that facility open for as long as possible and maybe even themselves so I would just say for my district please keep it running for as long as possible. Thank you for your support. Thank you for the comment not a question. Our gentleman thank you so much for being here thank you for taking the time to visit with this Unless you have any final remarks will say thank you and did you get day awesome thanks for the opportunity to be like you. And then next up we have Mister Henderson with some utilities. You would come to the table please. You would state your name for. The record and who you work for. You would term during my concert please thank you my name is Ken Henderson and I am vice president of government affairs with some utilities. Do you have any opening remarks and then you'd like to share before we so yes I have a question I do you're recognized for thank you. It after afternoon Mister chairman and members of the committee my name again my name is Kenny Henderson and I'm vice president of government affairs with some utilities I would like to thank you for the opportunity just come here and speak with you today and hopefully answer some of your questions I know that some of you have been getting phone calls and other communications from your constituents with concerns about high gas bills as well as concerns about some customer service issues that summit has experienced in connection with its transition from centerpoint energy's previous service customer service system to service the system and these are really are two separate issues that are tending to be completed because they're happening at the same time and so for that reason if you don't mind I would like to briefly address each of the two issues separately starting with the high gas cost issue and then go to the customer service and billing issues. First of all as a. As it relates to the higher gas cost I know that behind bills that customers or experience or a struggle for a lot of people out there on the summit customer myself I have family friends neighbors or summit customers most seven employees in Arkansas are Senate customers none of us are immune to the effects of high energy cost. However it should be noted up up front that natural gas utilities like summit do not make a profit off of the of the cost of gas the higher gas bills this year are largely due to high market price for natural gas the rise in the cost of natural gas across the United States has impacted summits customers long with other gas and electric customers across country. All energy prices including electricity propane and natural gas have been up significantly the increase is being driven by many factors among which are a very hot summer that costs an increase in the demand for natural gas for let for a electric generation the conflict in Ukraine which is causing global supply constraints. A lingering impacts of the supply due to COVID nineteen and increased reliance on natural gas for electric production driven by federal policies. But regardless of the specific causes in the end it's really just a matter of supply and demand driving the the competitive natural gas market. As mentioned some it does not make a profit on the on the cost of gas gas costs are billed to customers as a pass through with no market so much gas supply rate is filed within audited by the Arkansas Public Service Commission to ensure that over time we only recover costs incurred the gas supply portion of the bill amounts to approximately seventy one percent of the total bill for a residential customer using one hundred CCF of natural gas at today's rates. I like to say that summit is like a trucking company it makes its profit from charges for the delivery of the products to its customers not from the sale of the product itself however unlike the trucking company service delivery or distribution rates are set by the APS the the Arkansas Public Service Commission in a process that ensures that companies rates are just and reasonable. Senate is a customer focused company and we understand the find financial burden that these high gas costs can be on our customers and we are truly sorry that we are in this position. Some it's winter gas supply rates for Arkansas customers was ninety cents per CCF in the winter of twenty twenty one to twenty twenty two this winter summits gas supply rate is about twenty two per CCF which is approximately a twenty six percent increase year over year from last year to this year. This higher gas supply rate along with higher usage due to extreme cold weather or primarily what has been driving the higher winter bills the R. bills we've been seeing this winter and I'd like to emphasize that it's really up to par actor it's the it's the high cost of natural gas and that's the significant part of it but it's also higher volumes our customers had been you have used because of the the cold weather that we've had. yes someone who has worked in the industry for over thirty years I can tell you the recent volatility we've seen the market is something we haven't seen in many years I think probably since the early two thousands hi natural gas prices aren't good for our customers and are not good for our company. in anticipation of higher gas costs this winter summit developed and implemented a robust communications plan but it called ready for winter. As part of a planned summit use numerous communication platforms including press releases paid media social media billing service emails and our outreach to key stakeholders to help educate customers and community leaders on the high cost of gas and conservation tips we also strongly support energy efficiency efforts. We are continuously working with our customers to establish payment arrangements where appropriate and we're advising customers of where to go for available payment assistance we also offer encourage customers to sign up for average monthly billing to better manage these high cost over a longer period. And I might add the senators recently created at summit heating find that summit contributes to and customers contribute to to to help by a our customers with their bills as well. The the company's gas supply rate is adjusted twice each year once for the winter months it's effective November first of each year and what's for the summer months which is effective April first of each year. Fortunately the price of natural gas has dropped recently and if these conditions conditions hold we are hopeful that the company's gas supply will go down was of grass yes my rate will go down with the following that it will make with the commission to reset the rate effective April first of this year. I want to note that the gas prices may go down in April gas markets are extremely volatile and dynamic right now gas futures for next winter not looking much lower than this winter so we will continue to monitor prices and features and as we prepare for next winter in anticipation of what could be I cost again next year. Now as to the customer service issues as as I know most of you are probably aware I think your vote probably where some utilities purchased centerpoint energy's Arkansas Oklahoma and Texarkana Texas assets in early twenty twenty two. In what is almost a perfect storm simultaneously with high gas costs that I've been discussing summit has also been going through a transition from centerpoint energy's customer service system to a new senate system. This transition has resulted in increased call wait times for customers technical issues for customers log into their accounts and some data processing issues. However the more specific issue that has been in the media of late involves a situation which approximately a hundred sixty seven thousand summits utility customers received estimated bills due to a date data processing issue. That issue has been resolved and I'm happy to answer questions about it prior to the transition of all customer service and billing from centerpoint energy to summit we were up front with regulators and policy makers that there would be bumps in the road given the magnitude of this transition we hope that this billing issue would be an isolated incident but no from utilities that have gone through similar transitions that there is a possibility more issues to arise so we we remain committed to correcting any other issues that arise as quickly as possible. I will say this we are encouraged by progress we've made on call wait times with our customers directly following the billing issue our average call time was eleven minutes last week average speed of answer for the call the company's call center was approximately five minutes and yesterday was down to two minutes there's still work to be done in this area but it is much better than it was and with that I'd be happy to try to answer any questions. Thank you for March we do have a question from senator hill. Otherwise. Search okay you just talk about how your your time has improved on your customer service is part and it's on the phone and everything yes Sir was so much servers that bad before they took in the point or has it always been bad or or what was to problem seven has a long record of superior customer service and and. And it really does boil down to the implementation of the new computer system it was a huge transition to go through and yes we expected some bumps in the road frankly but I think we have more votes than we expected and we've got a we we have a ton of people we have I think eight hundred seventy employees in Arkansas right now the power of the private side of customer service reps and done a tremendous amount of work on the improvements to the to the system and and I think we're we really are getting there were making significant improvements and and we're gonna get there and I think I'm confident I'm a long time let me say this I'm a long time employee of this company going back all the way to the oracle days I came to work arclight in nineteen ninety five and member suffered for twenty seven years and I can just tell you from my standpoint I I'm very confident that once we get through some of these bumps and and get everything up and going that what you're going to see as much service from some utilities and what customers have seen this state in the past I sure hope so because the bar is not being set very high so far I understand that and follow Mr. The only go back to these high high prices that that you were referring to all go the the first billing cycle Johnson added youngest do estimates on those instead readings or what what was the process it was just the first billing cycle what what what happened in the with the billing issue is that and and it really applied to customers to how to build a between January seventeenth and twenty fourth of twenty twenty three and what happens there was a we read the meters but when the readings were being but it input into the system there was a data processing here and it just didn't pay in our system is designed when you don't have a meter reading to do an estimated bill and so what the system did is it. Those reduced intake so it it it issues what round that being about a hundred sixty seven thousand estimated bills in Arkansas and Oklahoma just hearing that that short window of time when we discovered it we we immediately self reported to the public service commission we advise you turn General's office of it we we canceled the bills and issues and rebuild correct bills and and we we deal with an assess any late fees to customers anything like that and it you know its it's cause some confusion to to customers and for that we're very sorry and I and I and I think you'll have the I would not have the high gas each costs and this on top of it might not been as bad but customers were already upset about the bills and so I thank I can tell you are I. T. department has recognize the issues as determined what the issue was and that problem has been fixed and shouldn't be a problem going for that's good good to hear one more follow up Mr one more. What are we doing to rectify for the customers who are on auto pay who may have built got an overdraft fee because of that what you are doing to to work with them on that we are going to work best is to be sure that they might have a long. Can you elaborate more on that however they will be aware that you're trying to work with them and in all that or just the process you're going to as well you're not alone someone that overdraft charge unless they bring it to you well that that's probably true we would need them to bring it to us and I believe we've had some communications out there regarding that I don't have that information thank you pass it can you get us Sir to staff a copy of that communication you send out I'll see what we have and if we haven't sent out a communication that I'll I'll. We'll all talk to our folks and see what we might need to do okay thank you Mr yeah rent please what whatever you find there would you please get the staff on the. All right of center Johnson Mark Johnson. You're recognized as chairman of. Mr Henderson thank you for all your do not. Ninety three of the at least two company maybe three I think that's right and I am grateful for your whichever hat you're wearing at the moment in responsive but be responsive I I get questions and I got what I wanted to share when you mention the situation where there was a computer error billing or whatever but correct when you be at if you want to paying attention they know prices are going up I want one diesel fuel it four dollars a gallon I found I wasn't driving my. Ninety five Ford seven point three diesel truck near as much as I used to and a lot of customers I'm sure no gap with natural gas prices going up they're making efforts to conserve as particular person that contacted me about a smart thermostat and it a lot of the things and never turns or heat over sixty seven degrees and then she Danielle covering your estimating the bill well I mean I'm not. Your pick on the whole idea of estimating but realize that if you estimated my diesel fuel bill you'd be wrong because I'm not by as much as I used to and I'm hoping as might be some adjustment to understand that consumers are doing the same thing to the extent you can on the their gas bill so is your estimation algorithm it's totally based on previous year about the same time of year use or is it some other factor that fact you might factor in the fact the fact that factor in the fact apologized but that you understand what I'm saying that I'm not yes we're we're conserving so give us a break yeah I think it's it's based on a combination rates and past years usage I believe I I honestly couldn't tell you all the details of a stop here really working inside but it's my understanding is based on a combination of your historic usage and and current rates and. Okay yes Sir I will say this about it I might say this about the estimate bills might be helpful to you in that regard in terms of the accuracy of the estimated bills we've we found that the estimated bills it did go out were for the most part within about four percent plus or minus from what the the corrected bills were so they were reasonably close they were way off well this person is within ten percent but a quick follow up if I could Mr chairman Electric utilities have gone to smart meters mmhm are there smart gas meters can we see that Cummings possibility of that that will not allow us to No of I know time of day type thing doesn't very as much in the in gases it does electricity but is that a possibility well we don't have true smart meters on our that we do have what we call our on our meters and they are read remotely we don't but with the smart meters I understand you typically have a it's all wireless and then transmitted that sort of thing the way the twerk on the gas meters is that we have a truck I see Dr see on street and and reach the meters remotely right advance because our meter readings have become a much more accurate as a result of that you still have the human error that you but it's still just a how much were did you use in the last billing period that that is no way to break at if you say send out amazing please conservatives conserve and you you do conserve there's no possibility in the future of a break for that right there's no there's no way for us to measure that now I'm not saying it's not technologically possible to the that I think it probably is I'm not sure whether it's financially so we're not there yet so we're not there yet okay thank you Mr engine thank you Mr. You're recognized in. Yes so I mean I've gotten some complaints that customers that we're not even. DO you in got bills is that correct. Not aware of that situation be happy to look at that if there is a situation that I'm not your you're saying someone actually wasn't hooked up to natural gas the grounds I mean if if they had disconnected and and they still got a meal on a run a rental property that would be. The case that I'm talking about yeah well on on a rental property they could be on what's called a leave on agreement or tenant moved out and they would get a bill in that situation I'm sure that's what you're talking about I'm not aware of any problems even though there was an intent there and no gas usage they would have got a bill of rights if I were on our customer leave on agreement because what how that works is a. Landlord has the ability to enter into a but the caller has really want to bring up thanks bye please what's called and and so their tenants we've been out in the bill comes to them and they think they keep the gas wise with that stays on so that that's the and so if there was a situation like that they might have gotten a bill after attending the doubt but I I'm not sure no specific item of this section the situation talking about so follow up. how many room residential and and the estimation how many residential and how many were business I'm not sure I know the answer to that question I can get the answer that question for you and I don't know if they were all residential if they are shunned us realty I'm I'm thinking they were probably all residential club make your own I can get you that information all right. Is the. So are you still disconnecting folks even though you sent out to bills no Sir we have not we're not we're not disconnecting anyone right now we're not assessing any late fees right now and that's a direct result of the issues that we had we we are disconnected or not with the consent subject for twenty twenty two for that reason. Thank you Sir. I resent Ladyman you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman Mr Anderson thanks for being here and talking about this issues big issue the billing I've got comments like everybody else sure but I understand your answers on that I understand corporate changes are very difficult and to work through that but I my questions pertain to the first part of your presentation we talked about The reasons for the high natural gas cost. But the things that you mentioned I mean. I really don't think the climb it's been that much hotter or colder than it has in the past but it does fluctuate some but you didn't mention. you know I. I think we have to face reality here and not talk about talking points we got up to face reality and know exactly what it is so we had inflation as high as nine percent a month is now six point seven percent of the price of eggs tripled. I would imagine that that affected natural gas. So that's one thing that I think would affect the purchase of natural gas I don't see how it could not yes Sir I I mean I think there are a lot of things that let me finish yes Sir yes Sir of federal policy has changed. I don't think anyone would argue with that last year and a half or so drilling and fracking of natural gas is not as. Available or is easy due to federal policy. That cuts down the supply of natural gas. That definitely affects the price of natural gas. Higher cost of labor we've got a labor shortage. Of the people everywhere you go they need people of the minimum wage has been raised in a lot of places when you raise the minimum wage increases higher wages so all of these things that happened. And those have major impacts now I understand weather variations does too but I would say that these three things have more impact on the cost of gas some of the other things that you talked about the war in Ukraine yes but you know we we're we got more gas under our feet and they got me crazy we're not using it. So I just say that to ask you questions about what is your opinion on these three things that I mentioned how does that affect your cost of gas I thank all of those things probably factory well I mean I think it's a combination of the factors I mentioned and I think all of those things probably have an impact as well do you have any idea what percent. Now Sir I what I really wouldn't be able to put a person on. I thank our gas supply thanks bye be better every that that I thank you thank you Mr. Representative baby recognized. Thank you Mr chair on a follow back up on the center field questions regarding overdraft fees that for those that were on auto debit and and really focus on the fees part of that that it could have been more than one three instead of just a at an overdraft fee on on your bill that could have cost multiple overdressed for that increased payment that kind came out of that customer's account so what steps we take as far as outreach to those affected consumers. I like I said I believe we've had some communication with them already I'm not sure of the details of that I'll be glad to look into that and get back with you on it. Well I'd like that if there's nothing to can you talk through the steps of what steps you're taking for consumers that are having difficulty paying their bills with this increase billing and the in the billing here and how you're working with those consumers sure I'll be I'll be happy to do that of course we always try to work with our customers especially in this situation we're trying to work with our customers to set up appropriate payment arrangements were words were expropriated delayed payment agreements those sorts of things we we work to advise our customers of where to go for payment assistance we have relationships with the agencies are offering public assistance we have relationships with some non profits Watership for instance the Arkansas the bank we we refer people to agencies like that groups like that we we have recently like I said started what we're calling the summit heating assistance fund which is similar to what the good day repeal pledges to be our club that Senate has contributed to stop eating for customers contribute to if they want as well we've started that and and using back to try to assist customers we also been trick try to encourage people to at to signed up for average monthly billing that's probably one the best things that people can do just as a general rule in terms of budgeting because it doesn't it's still review service spend the money but you get the conversion over a longer period of time so we we have are encouraging people to do that as well of course there's in these situations never enough resources but we are trying sincerely trying to do everything that we really reasonably can to help our customers well. I appreciate your efforts there you said a hundred sixty seven thousand I think was the number you through that Arkansas and Oklahoma as can you break that down how many were our Kansans that were if they don't have the exact number with an and it but it's gonna be the Balkans and the Arkansas I want to say it's about a hundred we are I've heard two different numbers that I need to give a number but I think it's or three hundred twenty houses and and then just saw. The just one last you stated some numbers at the very beginning about the cost of fuel yes and could you could you restate those members for our it's it's what I was referring to there was our gas supply rate right and last year for the twenty one twenty one to twenty twenty two winter season it was ninety cents per CCF this year it's a dollar twenty two persons here and and and you calculated that have Senate races about twenty six percent increase yes and it's about thirty six percent okay well that maybe. Well that's that's what I stated make certain or not I do it right quick night and I was just double checking to make certain if I wrote something down wrong research corrected I may have done the math wrong all right thank you Sir thank you. Senator you're recognized. On the other side the once over here today just kind of walk me through what you're going to do to make these customers whole whole process those who have over paid a of an issue a check back then we just come to my credit because they could be short of cash we're going try to do to rectify that well we think that most of the customers got the corrected bill in time when they were able to pay the the correct bill but if I if they did pay the estimated bill it also will correct itself the next month yeah I know that if you're short of cash that correction can put you in a bind it yes yes I understand that and it out is my understanding it would just be corrected that when the next bill is the plan if that's the case on go another step further on overdrafts and we're talking about if they overpaid you in a receive over grass from other companies because that overpayment anything other bill is lower than that where they would not have the overpayment are you going to correct that. Well it's a it's a domino effect is where I'm going to understand our intent is to work with customers to try to make them home okay now I hear you say that but it's for your customer service was you were discussing while ago I find that hard to believe. That you're not going to work on that long states have much trouble getting hold of you. Well hopefully that being able to get a hold of XYZ is getting better but we we intend to do everything we can to make because for some okay thank you this. All right center for the questions thank you for being here. Thank you. And next up we have. Attorney General Tim Griffin but I think maybe some staff with him. Or maybe not. The staff. Thank you. Your if you would turn my gonna that you just turn it off thank you recognize yourself record Tim Griffin Attorney General happy to be here thank you for being here you're recognized Sir thank you He did a good job represented Beatty with you Matthew sit over here thank it was closer to thirty five percent in yen terms of the gas increase over the last since last winter over the last two years it's about doubled the price of gas but so let me start by saying that. I've taken a keen. Interest in in this I have I mean I think I got five bills in the email while sitting over there listed everybody. And my neighbors giving me the bills. Across the street down the street people I meet at church of semi the same a lot of bills. And I've got a someone here I've given my staff tons of bills we've gone through this but I I think it's important to first point out what what's my role. Because the PSE has rolled so what's my role. Well the PSC as an enforcement role. Public Service Commission and they are primarily they primarily have the authority to to regulate and work with the utilities my role is a. A public facing role to give voice to the concerns of our consumers who are experiencing these problems in a very real I'm I'm trying to give voice to them in a real time kind of way and I think you've seen me out talking about is raising awareness about it and you know to Senator hills comment for example on who's going to pay for overdraft fees and those sorts of things those are the type of questions that that I've been raising in my staff as been raising repeatedly with people at some operational all those questions publicly and I actually think the public conversation about it is helpful I think it's part of the solution it's part of making sure that people only pay for the gas the use. You can call making whole whatever that is however you want to characterize that so. that the PSC. When they have open an open complaint then my office can provide testimony provide information that we're gathering so there's that role as well and what I attempted to do is be that have as many lines of communication summit open as possible I talked to the CEO of summit today via text. I have called him on his cell phone and spoken with them numerous times I had this Madam last year and had his cell phone in my phone so when this came up that was handy. And and so I have also talked to some of his so the people that work form but I but I've not been shy about talking with him directly. Let me tell you what we've generally found in a lot of it you've already heard of it's been reflected in in the testimony here because at the end of the day I'm given a bill from given a set of bills or range of bills every year I have the bills and I have to discern what I can from them and then I can take questions to summit just like you can just like the others can but a lot of our constituents because of phone problems with getting through on the phone of they can't necessarily ask the same questions that we can and get the same answers so. First of all the issue of actual versus estimated usage we've heard from summit on that it was a mistake. There they sent out a bunch of estimated usage bills and they shouldn't have and now they've started sending or have sent the actual I have a I agree that as I indicated earlier rates have increased there's no question if you look on the bills that rates have increased significantly it's not because in my view you crying that is certainly a pressure point but that's not the reason for this it It or many more factors supply demand domestic policy all sorts of different factors there the number of days in the billing cycle. Can be make a big difference because some bills that people got or for twenty nine days. In the next bill they get is for thirty four days. Now you may thank it's all about thirty well that's five day it's almost a week more of a bill that contributes to this of frustration and in some cases confusion there is the increase in usage no doubt about it particularly during these cold snaps And there are some unique situations related to estimated usage. You may not be using hardly any. But a year ago you did during that month. And so your estimate may have been massive. Thanking that you were going to do that again and you did not right. Also we we've seen some of those. we've also seen scenarios that awful we're really going to show us something that we could share with everybody I had one person called me said I haven't been in haven't been leasing this business space for a year sixteen months someone from church actually said I've been leasing this for sixteen months I got this massive bill so start asking questions can you go out look at the meter can you go talk to the person on the property even though you're not using it anymore come to find out it had been leased to someone else okay so we've tracked down a lot of these stories someone built a house and no one's lived in it yet and they got a big bill. And we dug into that and found out well of maybe the heated been on even no one was living so that there's some difference but we're trying to chase these down so we can really get to the facts of I will say. One thing that we've noticed that raises some questions that we're continuing to look at you can call and inquire you can go investigate whatever you want to the bottom line is we're seeking answers and that's a situation where. You had centerpoint billing. An individual's paid their centerpoint Bill. And when the summit bill took over. Still on the center point system. But. Labeled summit. It did not pull their payment. From before so they had paid before but it didn't cross over to the new summit bill we have that's different from this estimate is out of whack in these big bills but it happened in this process you heard of the gentleman from some talk about this you will have to transitions you have a transition with this center point system from center point to some. And then you have some at starting it's entirely new system those are two transitions of and so you had some individuals who paid Sir point. It didn't show up in the summit billing with the center point system. Okay and so that's something we're we're really concerned about we don't have any indication that that was massively widespread nothing like the hundred sixty seven thousand whatever it is they got the the estimated bills but it is something that we are looking into and you know because a docket is open at the PSC. Dating back to the winter storm Yuri twenty twenty one we are able to provide information into the record as we get it and so that's what that's what we'll continue to do I think the bottom line is my goal is to gather all the information I can be as transparent and engage with the public as I can and and make sure that what we learned is not only communicated to the company to try to get rectified but communicated to the PSC were appropriate because they alternately have the authority in this space. Subject to your questions. Senator Mark Johnson you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman of general Griffin thank you for coming out for this you said something that kind of piqued my interest you said more or less that the Sorry my phone I think it's probably one of brown's. It's not you I know that is a lot of today the. The billing thing could have been an excuse I could babysit you found instances where the center point. Bill. I had been paid by the customer and then they got a. The re bill from. A. This bill some bill came from summit but the subsequent credit showing they paid to the centerpoint didn't come through so I mean you we know that there's a transitional thing but it just seems a little concerning when when the the the the debt the debit part comes through but the credit part doesn't come through yet that you see that it will say more than once or in some sense how many. I might have to look back here. Okay dozens SO nine hundred sixty seven thousand but significant enough it's not a one off deal. And this is actually not really been discussed in the public dialogue because most people are talking about the hundred sixty seven thousand and the estimates that were so large but in this is something that that I believe if we don't pursue both with the company and the PSC of potentially may fall through the cracks because we we see that this happened enough that there's a little bit of a pattern and you this may be first you've heard of this I haven't heard anyone talk about this and so this is something that we discovered in the context of the broader. Estimated billing issue. We're not ready to draw final conclusions on this yet but it is something that is important I believe and I would say that. were probably speak tension is is is as much on that as the other component at this at this point okay thank you general thank you Mr. General thank you for being here is there is there some place for members to send constituent concerns on this issue well you all have my cell phone. I'm not sure that may not be the best place to do that yes certainly I would just tell constituents because because we love to have a conversation with him yet email such as in perfect. Of way of communicating and so I'd like from the call AJ who used to work for me is to work congressman hill and now to work for me again she is at six eight two two thousand seven is as for AJ five oh one and we certainly may request email but we can file complaints. we can take all that information and it is helpful to be able to compile that data even if ten or the same exact ten people have the same exact complaint. It's good to get it in the system and it's through that process that ultimately will been able to find this other problem that is so five zero one six eight two two thousand seven A. J.. Well as staff would you disseminate that up to the members please. And you all know how to get may if you. If you need me. Member. My I recognize my culture. Thank you just a question concerning. The the that made the excuse me dig a little bit deeper into what Senator Johnson was saying so. US president could possibly mean bill by the previous owners centerpoint they paid that and then. Some I didn't know that they had paid or that got transferred over something that nature so they can possibly my rebuilding for the amount of double paid for that the question is is have you have you got to the level of looking at that to see. The center point somehow transfer those funds to sum it. and if they did what was a mechanism that they were transferred with the what I'm getting at is is it could trigger a true mistake you would been not a large sum of money was. The sum of all these were somehow transferred in the mistakenly thought some of my to mistakenly thought that that was other customers or something that they had been so was there any attachment or anything are you transfer that shall attachments I can't speak to the the data processing component but they did by the company so I mean it's not. It at first. Without getting into the technology too much my understanding. Is that at first you had this the center point system and by the way I'm customer so I have been for a long time so you have to serve point system and then the summit summit folks used the center point system so it looked like the same bill with a new brand on it that's my understanding. So then so that was one transition that was a transition from centerpoint to sum it. With in the summit system. Okay so someone we're talking about digital records not who owns who has the money right because they bought the company. So then there's another transition that's the transition we're talking about. We're going from one summit system where you're going from the center point system labeled centerpoint to the center point same system labeled some. That's a transition within the system. The second transition which is not what we're talking about which is what gave rise to the estimated bills and the colorful you may be saying sort of had the drought bills in the colorful bills. The colorful bills came out of the second transition which you heard the summit gentleman described which is where. Some at. He took the center point system that they were now labeling there's. And got rid of that jump to their new some brand new colorful print out system that's the second transition the problem that we're talking about that is not the estimated bills that are massive for some people The problem we're talking about came from the first transition we're just taking the center point system and making it the summit system before they ever transition to their own system okay so. I can't speak to the digital component of it I don't think it's a there's there's no indication this is anything but a mistake no indication will be very clear about that and and and I'm certainly not going to try to speak about databases and and all that stuff but we have identified this we do have some official questions that we are posing on this and I'll be happy at some point. To come back in and then tell you what I found Yeah. We don't know this is Chuck Carter my deputy just twenty and he's been digging into this a lot. we don't know what happens in terms of where that money disappeared right so you pay in its own it's on the bill or it should it pays the bill for centerpoint and then you get your new bill it's the same system but is labeled summit for the next month and it's not on there so we don't know where those we don't we don't know what happened to that we just know that it doesn't show up in the new bill and so on. This is what we've got to figure out and it it it the I think the issue is when I called summit correct me if I'm wrong on this chart when they called Summit if the news because some people know what they paid and they look. They called someone about it some it didn't have any visibility on. Yes so that we can't we don't we can't see this. Call centerpoint. It was in that transition and so we're trying to make sure people didn't fall through the future responsibly know what yours resolutions from nurtures and and they just or point it going we'll say it we are you could you you give credit for what you all see it so we're trying to figure that out we don't have all those quick answers and we're talking with some and I just wanna be clear. Any time I want to get rid get a hold of someone I've got holes. anytime I've tried to get all of the CEO got holes C. included that and so we will we will continue to dig on this issue but this is one that I don't think others have raised have you seen it anywhere else I have so but we discovered this as a result. Looking at the other issue. Review body you're recognized let me just you know when you raise a valid point that in what you discovered with the with the billing side one thing that I recall and and I like your statement that some it's been very cooperative and and coming forth as evidenced today by Mister Henderson coming to the committee and and speak to us that it's that is and and open this wanting to address the problem my my question would be on the timing of these payments that were not reconciled it both centerpoint and at some that those those accounts are reconciled probably day as far as when revenues are received back to credits on customer accounts so at some point early on there should have been a red flag Hey we've got more money that's been credited to customer accounts and I would I would assert that that information probably can be found of our region an enquiring to summit and centerpoint owned at what point where your receivables and your customer counts out of balance and to locate that number and and that might clear the the questions of those are precisely the the type of questions that we're submitting in writing and and be happy to share the answers yeah I'll say this to. Of course or cooperate with you and may that's not what's causing the frustration it was the the hour long phone calls and all that stuff that really the fact that I can get the C. of call me back on my cell phone doesn't make it any easier for someone who's been on the phone for an hour waiting. And so it's good to hear what I heard today You know I I don't know what the weights are today. But clearly that is added to the frustration you have the higher if the cold snap if the higher prices you have transition yeah the estimates some of which records some of which were not you have you know you have this is this change in the company's. The wait times on the call made altogether. Really frustrating to a lot of people and then you have the line of questioning that Senator Hill rightfully was pursuing is Hey don't make it right. A that's that's why that we're staying on top of this I understand the role of the PSC that's where a lot of the authority lies but also understand that I'm elected official who can speak publicly to a lot of stuff and and that's important to do not only to inform the public but to keep the pressure on so that. So maybe the phone calls the phone call holds a little shorter than they were. Just like I do and and I would just asserted there spend time on this and and their the the phone calls and the wait time will go down based on the volume of calls committee and they're they're the bills are coming and still wear their grossly overstated then before so you'll have less than your people calling so there's your downtick in customer response time I think the key used you stated the key Attorney General that war you gonna do to make right and and and to make these because these Arkansans hole on the on the mistakes that were made and and and we know that that that will happen at some point so thank you thank you a representative by the I'm if I could get I add some center so German so I think at the end of the day. You've got a lot of people that even though all of this stuff is getting quote fixed. They were put In and some of it may be. There was a mistake and sometimes there wasn't a mistake but you still got a lot of people who weren't ready for a five hundred dollar eight hundred dollar gas bill. And and to Senator hills point to the extent they had to pay that. They did maybe they didn't know that they can get some they can ask to spread it out over time or whatever and they took everything they had to pay that you can bet that screwed something else up in their budget. And it may have been some let my about five checks. And at the end of the day we not only need to make sure people get the gas they pay for. None more not less but we need to also make sure that to the extent there is a data era and we know there was any. Financial consequences that arise out of that you know how it was good to hear them say they're gonna make good on it you know I may be able to dedicate some hot lines just of that. Because get your money back in your account probably a higher priority for some folks it just reporting something else on the same line right. so that that's what we're going to continue to to push today good to see Senator Stubblefield walking I know I'm in trouble now. All right members of see no further questions Attorney General thank you for being here thank you for taking the time to update us we reserve the right to call you back at if we have additional questions at a later date to any question any time always love to be with the legislature I understand your role I respect it and I appreciate all you all do to make sure we have a budget thank you all thank you and the members would we will be subject to the call the chair for for future of meetings and I want to thank everyone else the testified to get time to be here our. representative from summit thank you for taking the time being here I know that maybe this is probably not the easiest thing to do but you did it and I respect that I know the committee members do as well for taking the time and and working through this issue to address our constituents and Sir and so with that thank you very much members the we are adjourned.