State Agencies & Govt'l Affairs- House

The please be sure to sign up that sign up sheet is just outside the door or let us know here and we'll get you we'll get you signed up to speak for against anything on today's agenda. If you're here for any of the following bills and also for committee members the house bill fourteen forty four will not be heard today moving that bill to deferred. And with that the against rested agenda we're ready to get started we started with so we'll start with House Bill Fortino five. Committee painter. Representative you would just dented by yourself to the committee and then you're recognized to present your bill thank you Mr chair steps impaired district three Committee this bill is really simple to have a page H. the fourteenth five brings Ark Code up to twenty first century language all it does is get rid of old terminology that we do not use anymore and that I'll close. Okay any questions from committee members. Senate. Okay. No one signed up to speak for against the bill representative Bentley you're recognized for motion. The representative man let's make up made a motion of do pass any discussion on the motion. Shane none all in favor say aye. All opposed say no congratulations your bill is passed thank you chairman thank you Committee. The representative McClendon is running a bill in another committee making sure she's not. okay we'll skip over that and we'll go back that bill when she shows up representative Apartment house bill fourteen fifty seven. Pepperidge farm if you would just have a seat at the end of the table. Identify yourself to the committee. And you're recognized to present your bill. Thank you Mr chair Tony Furman District eighty two. House Bill fourteen fifty seven creates the Arkansas poll watchers Bill of Rights Act. There's a few things the one thing it does is makes the it directs the state board of election commissioners to develop an online training program for poll watchers so they know their rights and their their duties. It up to distinguishes election workers between poll watchers with respect to their individual responsibilities. Strengthens public confidence in elections. It allows poll watchers to be easily identifiable by requiring them to wear name badges with their name on it. It better defines the duties of a poll watcher there's actually one one moment I made a party in gross that Clarifies and really makes the process of challenging a ballot much more efficient. It. Yeah. That's it. Okay any questions from committee members representative plan you're recognized for a question thank you Mr chair representative for and this is just a pretty lengthy bill can you walk me through what that challenge process looks like under your proposal yeah the originally it said that a poll watcher if they want to execute challenge after notify the election sheriff and to my understanding the election service all over the place during the process and that the time frame you have to challenge a ballot is very quick if you're trying to locate the sheriff by the time you get back the person signed in and you can't challenge the ballot so the amendment was to just notify the poll worker and the process pauses until the sheriff can come to the table and then they can execute the challenge process at that point. Thank you Mr chair give a sense of how long it typically takes once that process is initiated if if something is challenged which A poll watcher can can challenge if they feel that there's need for right so in in in a sense The person who's voting doesn't necessarily need to have done anything wrong to be challenged how long will it take ones that challenge process is initiated for making it that easy for talent how much longer do we anticipate that that will take to kind of clear up before still waiting on the election sheriff to show up you know my concern just just so that I'm clear with you about it is that we're gonna be holding up people and and erecting more barriers to their voting even when there's no reason for those barriers to exist in that particular case so do you anticipate that this will take a lot of the voter's time more time than it takes currently if they are waiting for that election share to show up with a poll watcher has been notified before the Senate. There's somebody from secretary of state's office it's probably more quick answer that so which Mr charity permission like to have Josh bridges and trying to the table and it granted. If you will just have saved in the table database if committee who you represent. Josh bridges election systems analyst for the Secretary of State. We recognized. President Clinton thank you for the question I don't know that there's really a good answer necessarily for that the the language in this bill is not going to belabor anybody necessarily from waiting longer than normal whenever a ballot is challenged that voter is required to vote a provisional ballot at that point initiated by the poll share so as I think we all know the the polling location is quite busy in the poll sheriff is kind of the the main person in charge so like represented Fuhrman said they can be all over the place a little bit and and basically what this amounts to is it just simply pauses until the share of can come over and begin the process of having a voter vote a provisional. Yes Mister recognized thank you. it right and it's not PAS that I'm concerned about I guess if they're voting provisionally anyway I guess I don't understand the need if this will result in a provisional ballot whether it's the way that it is now with the way that it is under this proposal I don't understand why that additional wait time for the voter increases security in any way all that I see that that does is make it harder on the voter can you speak to that a little bit please sure I think I understand your your question the the challenge of a ballot is nothing new necessarily but the requirement under the law currently even without this bill is that the poll sheriff is to handle the situation not necessarily the poll worker or whoever's checking in the voter's so that's not a new requirement the whenever a ballot is challenge there will be a wait time for the voter I understand that nobody wants to be put in that position but we also have to keep the playing field even and make sure that poll watchers duties and rights or protected as well. One more I promise thank you Mr chair I'm sorry I'm just a very simple yes or no will this increase the wait time for a voter whose ballot is challenged from from the way that it is now I don't know that it's as simple yes or no necessarily because there will be a wait time that's inevitable. Mr bridges it up. I have a question I direct your attention in the bill to. The bottom of page three. Ford says that a poll watcher who violates this section may be expelled. For all of my fall the polling locations in the county for the duration of the election. By the County Board and so forth. Now that that's the penalty for a poll watcher that somehow interferes with an individual's constitutional right to cast a vote however at the beginning of page four it says that the election official a public official or anyone who may interfere with the power worker and that they could be subject to I'll be convicted of a Class se misdemeanor I'm just kind of. Would like an explanation if a party worker does something wrong and and by violate an individual's rider that you do something they should and then the penalty is just a band from being able to participate in the war in the county for the rest of that election that name carry over to the next election but if elected official does the same our interferes with the poll worker then they're guilty of a Class say miss may seem like there's just such a disparity there between those two and could you explain that. Yes Sir I can do my best on that so just to clarify on the top Page four line three it says that a poll watcher I thank Mr I think you might of simple worker so just to clarify that point I'm not sure specifically why there is that disparity there but I think. This is an attempt to ensure that poll watchers are. Understanding of what they could be up against if they violate the law when on the other side of the coin that the local election official matches the poll workers or the. Election commissioners who already. I understand those requirements or should understand those requirements are held to a higher standard questions because they're taken technically the election they're responsible for running the elections so they should already be aware that required. Do you think those censure such a disparity in the penalties that apply here do you think that would the somehow may be. Intimidate an elected official of from even approaching a poll worker that may be doing something wrong out of fear to be in charge of the class A. misdemeanor do you think that possibly could happen. I think it's fair to say that that's definitely a possibility And I wouldn't disagree with you Mister chair but at the same time the election commissioners we all know that the Election Commission and the county clerk's office they run the election so it's our goal along in conjunction with a board of election commissioners to ensure that all election officials are very well versed in the requirements under the law and that they understand when and when they cannot approach a poll watcher or challenge a poll watcher so. Okay thank you. Wardlaw you're recognized for a question. I think. I think I want to understand the requirement for the training a little bit better and how the training's going to be paid for I think this is somewhat what we talked about a special language this morning But we're already having trouble in rural areas finding volunteers to to be poll watchers and our outlying areas and one thing that concerns me is we put training on this works online or in person however that I think it just allows for either are Are we. Are we limiting polling sites even more because these folks may or may not be the training and then we still can't have those polls site sorry I just don't want to kill the rural areas from being to find volunteers to do this. But I want to be educated so it's it's kind of two edged sword there sure it I just I want to ask one point of clarification questions representative are you referring to rule areas having a hard time recruiting poll watchers or polyesters yes watchers okay so or both okay truthfully sure we all know that poll workers are hard to come by that as far as poll watchers are concerned I think the intent of this is to just ensure that the poll watchers are going to be well versed in their duties their rights and what they can and cannot do as opposed to hoping in assuming that when they come in to be a poll watcher that they already or where that so this is this is going to give them the luxury of having training whether it's in person or online to where they are aware of their rights and responsibilities. Follow up. I'll get back in the K. representative very you're recognized for a question thank you Mr chairman I and I think a representative Wardlaw the dressed most of my question because I come from a district with several rule counties and and everyone of the counties and in my district a. Are challenged every election for a poll workers and and watchers but in what I'm all for the intent of the this bill a do you have a question about the the training and how how can you address the training how long is the training you know as a week long as it do they do it in a day you know whose the resources to pay for the training and is that gonna be a burden on the county. It's a great question. Mr church seems like there's a few questions I don't mind pulling this bill down we don't have to you know go through its real fast we can address these concerns and work on if need be I come back and run it later that please representatives at your request to the chair that you want to pull the bill now yes Sir that request is granted we'll see you back in here when you make your corrections thank you Sir for being here today thank you Mr bridged. Committee next item on today's agenda is house bill fourteen sixty one representative Ladyman. If you would just state your name for the committee and then you're recognized to present your bill. Thank you Mr chairman Jack Ladyman district thirty two. have H. B. fourteen sixty one the title of that is an act to require legislative review of new federal election guidance and to amend the duties of the secretary of state the bill is a does basically three things. it provides a means for counties to notify the state of any federal enquiring into election issues in the county all state and county election officials must submit this is number two all state and county election officials must submit any new federal election guidance to the Secretary of State within two business days of receipt. number three this will help prevent federal over reach and protect state sovereignty with three what regard to elections and what's behind this bill is if the federal government comes in it goes directly to a county. They need to notify the secretary of state so they know what's going on within our state so that's the basic thing behind that I'll be have take any questions. Committee members represent represent you make you're recognized for a question thank chairman thank you representative Ladyman for the bill I just wanna make sure I fully understand this that when the County gets notified by the federal government some election change they'll notify secretary of state and then the secretary of state will then let us know so that we can make any modifications or does it just the Secretary state handle it. Well if necessary they would notify us right okay some of the things the secretary of state could handle but they just want to know if the federal government is involved and be able to work with the counties and then bring that to us if necessary okay excellent thank you thank you Sir. The plan you're recognized for a question thank you Mr chair I'm sorry present lady committee made for this but I didn't hear it secretary of state once this bill is that correct. Let me rephrase that question yeah I don't know if this then that but it didn't what brought to me by secretary of state it was something that I heard about got interested in thought it was a good thing okay I I guess sorry fella Mr. You're recognized thank you my concern then is is do you know where the secretary of state's office is on this bill and is this is there any way that that were running the risk of Legislative you know branch over reach with this. Any represent the is let me do this at this point that question is anyone in a year from the secretary of state's office. Yeah they're they're here would you just have a seat in the table and representative Clowney if. To be recognized as that question to the road you state your name for the committee. Centel micron the system director elections for state representative Clowney has a question for you if you didn't hear would be glad to repeat it. Hi I did hear a question we're fine we're fine with this bill. Okay thank you stated further questions from committee members. Say none. No one signed up to speak for against the bill representative to Ladyman you're recognized close to your bill I'm close from bill represent the love you closing your bill representative makes has a motion of do pass any discussion on the motion. You saying none all in favor say aye. All opposed say no. Graduation representative Ladyman your bill is passed thank you Committee. Next item on today's agenda be house bill fourteen sixty four representative barks are you there you are. Would you state your name for the committee and then you're recognized present your bill representative Rebecca Burke's District eleven thank you Mr chairman. House Bill fourteen sixty four is a bill that deals with complaints of election law violations it allows more time for complaints to be made about these violations currently complaints have to be filed with the state board of election commissioners no later than thirty days following the certification of an election by County Board this bill changes that to say no later than thirty days following the deadline to certify so it makes uniform across the state when these election law violations complaints have to be made it also clarifies that the state board of election commissions will how they will respond to complaints and allows for offer of settlement so you can see there on the second page that after the state board will make it may make an offer and the offer is rejected then they may have a hearing and then they have two hundred and forty days to conclude the action and then it finally clarifies the circumstances in which a sealed package of ballots that's in storage for that two year storage period after the election has been certified how those can be accessed currently the at the law says that they can be accessed by a a direction of a of a competent tribunal a written instruction signed by the director state board election commissions and this adds upon receipt issued by the state board of election commissions. Happy to answer any questions. Any questions from committee members. No one signed up to speak for against the bill represent Burch recognize close we bill thanks for the bill representative close with the bill. But I have a motion of motion representative makes of a do pass any discussion on the motion. Saying none all in favor say aye All opposed say no graduation represent your bill is passed thank you Mr chairman. Committee members going back up the agenda to House Bill fourteen eleven I believe that president Clinton is here with us now so you would just have stated in the table the identify yourself to the committee and you're recognized present your bill. Thank you chairman I'm a representative committee macalin in house district ten I'm presenting to you today a bill that I presented a couple weeks ago it is a house bill fourteen eleven this bill was pulled down to clarify some language county clerks and asked that we just clarify exactly what we mean by a blank ballot to be sure that they are able to still print. All the necessary information on the absentee ballot when is requested but that nothing that is to be filled out by the voter is filled out and so you'll see that at the bottom of the page one there at nine thirty three thirty four have been amended to otherwise if you have any questions I'll be happy to answer them on this bill. Any questions from committee members. Saying none no one signed up to speak for against the bill representative you're recognized close we bill thank you so much I'm because my bill an aspect about. Okay. I have a motion from representative Richmond. I have a motion of do pass any discussion on the motion. Saying none all in favor say aye All opposed say no regulation your bill is passed thank you chairman committee to. Committee members the next item on today's agenda will be house bill fourteen sixty nine representative going. Represent throwing justify yourself to the committee and then you're recognized present your bills hello Committee my name's Carlton wing of the state representative for district seventy in north little rock and Sherwood house bill fourteen sixty nine is a fairly simple all we're doing is bringing in the uniformity the various different types of municipal elections some with my oral some was city manager this is all agreed upon language with the cities counties and the state board of election commissioners just to get bring everybody into the same deadlines. It's just that simple. Asian for representative wing is any questions from committee members. Representative Bentley. I have a motion at the proper time any questions committee members saying that we have a motion of do pass any discussion on the motion. Hey none all in favor say aye All opposed say no congratulations represent your bill is passed thank you Mr thank you Committee. Committee members now we're moving next to Senate bill two fifty eight. Senator days represented Burch I'm sending you here to present the bill for this the Senate bill yes Sir Cape you again up into by yourself to the committee in you're recognized president Bill thank you Mr chair Rebecca Burke's District eleven Senate bill two fifty eight prohibits the use of absentee ballot drop boxes unmanned ballot drop boxes for collecting for collecting absentee ballots is designed to ensure the chain of custody of ballots and ensure that good ballots are not damaged when they're left in these unmanned drop boxes we don't have widespread use in Arkansas these ballot of these drop boxes at all so this won't affect great change for for folks in our state right now. Arkansas is the sixth most secure in the country and election integrity and we want to maintain that excellent record one of the things to keep in mind as these unmanned ballot drop boxes could be vandalized set on fire stolen at Central things that we don't have concerns about when you drop something in the mail. Any questions. Any questions from committee members represented clan you're recognized for a question thank you Mr chair representative Burke's US out of things that could happen to these drop boxes we we have used these I remember watching County I am utilize these a few years ago Do we have any evidence that anything any of the threats to election security that you're concerned about how it actually happened in the State of Arkansas I don't have any statistics on these unmanned ballot drop boxes being set on fire stolen or or something happening to them but it is it is a real possibility very different than the US postal service. Well you have a question. Represent Burch you keep using the term on man but if I read the bill correctly it doesn't determine whether these are just eliminating man are unmanned boxes so if we're only intention of of eliminating the unmanned boxes I think you need an amendment to say that the man boxes are okay. No you can turn your absentee ballot in directly if you if you take it in to the county or you can drop it into a mailbox so we're eliminating the use of these drop boxes and so your intention is to eliminate both manned and unmanned boxes yes the use of drop boxes for the purpose of collecting absentee ballots that's correct. Thank you for clarification. The questions from committee members representative that you're recognized for a question thank you Mr chairman thank you representative parks for being here my quick question is so if this passes into law and replaced one another pandemic. And we're in the middle of an election these County clerk's hands would be tied and they can't actually use the drop boxes to collect balance like they were able to do during covid. That's correct under this law they would it be other provisions would have to be made if that was something that we wanted to adopt at that time. Thank you. G. G. dragon that you're recognized for a question. The thank you Mr chairman of resented Burch do we have any candies that have these are I'm I'm not aware of any of the drop boxes of do we have any in the state of Arkansas my understanding is that in the Lexus let last election there were two locations that utilize this drop box but like I said it hasn't been use widespread cars across Arkansas do you know where they were at I do not but I have somebody here who could put like you know just in case the purposes absolutely bring to the table who you who can testify to the representative. What stage name the committee again who you represent. Shentel McGraw assistant director of elections for secretary of state did you really representatives a change question hi Ted you're recognized to ensure the question I believe what you're referring to is Pulaski County had a couple man and drop boxes during the twenty twenty election. Okay you need the user between the twenty two. Not that I'm aware of okay thank you representative will run recognized for a question Sturch. So they had man drop boxes who who where the people standing there where they employees of the clerk's office where the volunteers for their poll watchers poll workers will who are they. As far as I understand they were paid employees of the clerk's office. Okay so if they were paid employees of Clark's office watch in a box what's the difference in handing your ballot at the clerk's office as representative birds alluded to. Because those are employees that your hand in that too so what are they putting that ballot in at the clerk's office is that not a box as well. Yeah I would agree with that it's definitely a ballot box that they handed to the clerk's office as well so would you need to follow the yes Sir you're recognized so what the bill not need an amendment to address that so that you can still have that box Mandan the clerk's office as well. If I might respond to that I think that handing it to an official to be you know stored for safekeeping is very different than dropping them in a box yourself. Follow. You need to follow it yes that yes you do. She just testified to represent lanes questions that they had two boxes man by an employee of the clerk's office that I hear that correctly just nod your head this is not my question. That's what you're eliminating here that would be the same thing is dropping it off in the clerk's office to a paid employee. To be put in a box that's a problem. Well when the employee receives the ballot how they store it is up to the up to the process that they use within the within the county. Whether they put it in a box or envelope or or some drawer whatever mechanism they use to store those. The. But rich for you have a question. You're recognized. Thank you Mr chair the either one of you can answer this particular question. So wants to to do it. My question is for a man to drop box verses an unmanned Dropbox do you still have the same issues with chain of custody with a man Dropbox as you would with the nine men Dropbox. My my thoughts on that would be that with the man to drop box or manned envelope or a man to draw or whatever the council decides however they decide to store those it's up to the county person whose whose maintaining that and receiving it verses watching somebody drop in the drop box they might turn their back they might not be at the box at all times so that the public can drop these absentee ballots in. Follow up follow up please yes in your in your statement you talked about the. Album of account of the a chain of custody and we know that a chain because these incredibly important to be sure the something is not tampered with. So again. If somebody if you have a drop box that has a paid employee from the clerk's office there is that chain of custody is it can it be potentially broken. Sometime during the transport from wherever that boxes to where it's going is that a is that a still a big concern verses I completely understand an unmanned Dropbox that the chain because the it is never established. Correct okay so does a man drop box. Have the same potential of being pilfered because of a lack of chain of custody. No not if it is truly being man that's correct I thank you. Representative Scott you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chairman representative parks I think you said only to to counties use the drop boxes in twenty twenty to. One Calipari two boxes in Pulaski. Follows you're recognized so has Pulaski County use the box beyond just the twenty twenty when we were in the middle of a pandemic. No not sent okay thank you. Representative to the plan you have a question yes Mr check. Thank you it's. My recollection that The Washington County Clerk stood outside of the washing County courthouse and accepted absentee ballots during twenty twenty is that recollection correct and if so would that be made illegal under this bill I wasn't present for that so I don't know if that's what happened to you. Okay I don't I can't confirm or deny that is long as the official is receiving that the ballots the absentee ballots again however they choose to store them an envelope a drop box or she box or a locked box is is up to the process of the official. You're recognized. so I am just confuse you said it's it's up to the official but it they wouldn't have the option of doing what we did in Washington County and twenty twenty if this became law unless there's something I'm missing in my missing something if what happened in Washington County is an official said outside and collected the absentee ballots and then put them in a storage container that wouldn't be prohibited under this. The more you're recognized for a question thank you Mr chair representative Berks a love the idea but. I've never seen a ballot drop box and so I know there's been some confusion as to far as you know we're all concerned about the security of these ballots but will what is a ballot drop box and what is the difference between a county Clerk establishing a remote collection facility versus a is a box. You know lock shut if you could help me understand what exactly were traps have it that would be very helpful if you saw or saw any part of the movie two thousand mules you might have seen an example there of of a ballot drop box being out in the open and it's not postal service it's not it's not doesn't have necessary would necessarily have the same protections of the postal service would provide and people can walk up at any time day or night and put ballots in those in those drop boxes if they're not secured under some kind of regulation like the postal service might insurer because you can walk up to one of those blue mailboxes and just as easily put your ballot in for convenience a lot we don't know or have the same protections that they wouldn't be stolen set on fire something like that happening to those it's just as easy to walk up to a mailbox and put your ballots in their. He further questions from committee members. Wardlaw you're recognized for a question thank you Mr I think it's a request of a sponsor fence permissible yes you're recognized appropriate. I think to make me feel comfortable I would like to see an amendment with the definition of the drop box and. Also the permissions of a county employee to be able to to stand out and collect ballots input into a lock box and maybe that's the definition need to be present is how that takes place so I would requested you pull bill down and fix the drop box definition before we move forward okay we can absolutely do that. Thank you both for you make a request to the chair to pull the vote for the bill down yes Mister chairman the approved that request is granted and we'll look forward to seeing you back in here before this committee when those corrections are made thank you thank you. Next on today's agenda is represented Lundstrum used. No yet another committee to go to and I apologize. I believe we have an amendment. Of the staff presented out the amendment. Eighty. Committee members you should have the amendment in front of you represent your lunch we would identify yourself to the committee and you are recognized to present your amendment thank you chairman this simply strikes one word and so that we have a complete agreement on the bill with Clark's. Representative learn read presented the amendment any questions on the amendment saying none representative of. Representative of the. Lundstrum are you close with your amendment yes I have a motion presented Bentley of a do pass any discussion on the motion saying none all in favor say aye All opposed say no the amendment is passed represent you learn from Lundstrum you're now recognized to present your house bill as amended thank you chairman colleagues this simply puts into law the tracking system for ballot delivery and adds a process for president preservation of spoiled ballots it also codifies the procedures for specifying the process regarding damage and defective ballots and this also requires a complete change of custody for transportation of ballots in this is something that all seventy five counties of agreed upon. With that I'll entertain any questions any questions from committee members represented cloudy recognized for a question thank you Mr chair representative Lundstrum I'm looking on page. I don't know what page Amman we talk about allowing the public access for in person doing the absentee canvassing process is that currently. so so is it my understanding that a lot of counties allow for that right now you're just codifying that every county has to yes thank you. The questions from committee members. Say none no one signed up to speak for against the bill I have a motion from the Committee. Representative mentally you did make a motion I have a motion of a do pass any discussion on the motion as amended any mo any discussion on the motion. All in favor say aye All opposed say no credit you lazy bills pass as amended thank you colleagues I appreciate your time. Committee members next we have Senate bill two fifty four. J. D. okay correct Senator corral or you. And okay we'll move on to Senate bill two fifty five. Senate committee. Okay. A committee members we will move on to House Bill fifteen ten I'm sorry I didn't see. Thank you here for Senate bill two fifty five Sir. Thank you Mr chairman okay this database of committing you're recognized thank you bill Matt McKee St Senate district six. Members of a pretty simple bill simply restricts the funding to pay for election related respect expenses to Government sources so that no outside money can be used to pay for election expenses excludes campaign funds from those restrictions I'd be open any questions. Committee voted presentation senator representative Wardlaw you're recognized for a question. Any questions from committee members any serious questions from committee members. Seeing none. No one signed up to speak for against the bill to I have a motion. Presented Bentley your motion. I have a motion of do pass be any discussion on the motion saying none all in favor say aye. All opposed say no congratulations your bill is passed. Now committee members moving on to our final. mon today's agenda will be House Bill. Fifteen ten represent you right we do have a handout for this bill and. I'm sorry we have an amendment colleagues that amendment is being handed out at this time. We also have a in that an amendment in a handout so both of those are being distributed to staff. What would justify a self committee you're recognized to present your amendment thank you Mr chairman David Raitt District sixty nine colleagues the amendment just set the effective date for the act as of January one twenty twenty four. B. Verdy presentation own amendment we have them any questions from committee members. Say none I have a motion. The president to make a motion of no passion discussion on the motion. Shea none all in favor say aye. All opposed say no The Amendment was not adopted yeah you can now present the bill as amended thank you Mr chairman colleagues at this bill looks familiar it's because many of you have seen it before in previous sessions this bill would simply standardize the election calendar for special elections on local measures and questions those involving issues such as sales tax bond issues except or a so that they're held on one of two dates in each calendar year those being the primary and the general election in in normal election years and then in odd numbered years they would be the dates on which the primary or the general election would be held outside of those two dates per year of the bill does allow for a local government to hold an emergency special election if they meet the criteria outlined in the bill on page two there there's three three instances in which that would be permissible. College the reason for the bill is because and I know this is eight a topic there's been discussions committee before local governments in Arkansas I've used special elections held at irregular times consistently to raise taxes on our citizens and in many instances this is a deliberate strategy aimed at keeping turnout low so that the folks who do show up or those with a vested interest in the passage of that measure so by fixing this will do three things this will help keep the tax burden on our citizens low when it's obvious that when voters actually know when the election is going to be held it's harder to sneak things past them. Our combined state local sales tax in Arkansas is currently nine point four seven percent which is the third highest in the entire country and we're never going to get that issue under control unless we fix our special election problem. the second thing this will do is increase voter participation we know that there's a direct correlation between special elections and voter participation when elections are put on these dates you can see the data in front of you the turnout is abysmal and the average turnout doesn't doesn't truly reflect what we see in a lot of instances you know just a couple weeks ago there was a special election on Valentine's day in North Little Rock for a five mill increase for the library the turnout was three point eight percent. That's just one of many many examples I could give you at all and thirdly this will save taxpayers money it's estimated that between nineteen eighty one and the. But sorry between nineteen eighty one and two thousand eighteen. we spent an estimated ten million dollars on special elections and so that's what this bill would accomplish and would be happy to answer any questions. Right we could you just give me an example of an emergency election I mean it's in the bail I'm just curious what that would the class. Yes Sir there's three things one would be an interpretation by a federal or state court requiring a local government to do something that they wouldn't have the ability to do and less they levy to tax for example another would be a natural disaster like a you know we're we're sort of in tornado alley so I like to use that example if you had a devastating tornado come through and it were necessary to issue debt or something for the purposes of a capital project those are a couple of examples that come to mind. Thank you. I have a question from representative planning. Thank you Mr chair representative ray you mentioned at the beginning presentation that we've heard this before it's my recollection that this chamber and declined to voted out twice last session are there any differences in this version verses of this the version that we I did not pass last session. Yeah this version only if you'll notice this bill is much shorter than the previous bill this is only affecting local measures and questions. Thank you Mr I'm. I guess but my concern is that is that. You know I'm I'm. Picking up on this thread of not trusting Arkansas voters it we you know was somehow holding these elections on one of four days that are set out in statute verses one and two days gives us a lot of opportunity to sneak things by the voters can you explain why it is that you think this incentivizes only the people who are for what is being voted on to go out and vote smile a kind of perception that when these elections happen people are motivated who are very for or very against thing why is it that you think having these on one of four days rather than one of two days is a benefit only to the yes side of these issues. Why I don't know that it benefits a particularly a yes Sir it depends on what the issue is right so whether it whether would benefit the yes side or the no side but I will just say in general Voters are used to going to the polls in February or in August and so that is for for most folks who are just trying to live their lives worker job take their kids to T. ball practice or gymnastics you know people people are. Of August when they have their summer vacation planned I think that our voters would benefit from regular and reliable election dates is the primary or the general in each year and I don't think that's too much to ask. Representative may you're recognized for a question thank you thank you Mr chairman in well I appreciate representative counties the question of where is the difference between representative clowns District and mine and I don't know if representative ray has any statistics on it but. The problem that I have been a A rural area is that there's not a lot we don't have a newspaper in some of my counties so getting the word out a lot of times we don't even know when we have a special elections unless there's a sign and from the courthouse so the what it cost a rural county no one nine county and I don't know if you have any of these figures but what the state take Franklin County it costs for a special election thirty thousand dollars at my senior center. Needs very much and and we're spending it on special elections were six hundred fifty people will turn out for a in that election to raise taxes were as in larger metropolitan areas they have newspapers and radio they have all these different means to broadcast the fact that they're gonna have special elections do you have any numbers on what it costs an average rule County to have the special election or Hamid the voter turnout in rural counties yeah I don't have it broken down by our rural versions are better but I think your your points illustrate illustrate a problem which is that it's it's extra money the counties have to expand to host a special election and then you get even lower turn out to hold on that date so there's fewer there's there's less participation from voters and I think it's worth stating that greater voter participation brings more legitimacy to the actions of government so thank you for that. Representive Underwood you're recognized for a question. President will operate in the comment was made that by passing this This Is and somehow someway we don't trust voters but to me it seems like not having. Special elections I on coming times like downtown state as an example that's truly not trusting voters because you're not trusting voters to ship more voters to be able to participate am I wrong in that no I would agree with that observation. Representative could and you're recognized for a question thank you Mister chair I ate I'd have to say I don't follow that line of reasoning if we're having an election and voters can show up when they when they show up and tell us what they want again these are not things are happening in the middle of the night with no warning I will say I read I I am here in appreciate representative very appoint about communication being harder and rural places I hear the argument about turn out I hear the argument about communication in smaller places but we got to hear about the heading of which and the way that the first reason that representative ray you get twenty percent of your bell was that we have higher sales taxes in this state because the special elections are allowed to be held four times a year rather than two what I'm still not understanding is those communication problems are consistent across the precinct right across a group of people who would be voting why are we so convinced that they're showing up to the people who do show up are not an accurate cross section of those of those voters in that district or at least those who care enough about an issue to show up on one extra day to vote for a thing and the reason I'm asking that question is because I feel like our local entities need flexibility and they did they are not unlimited currently they're still limited to four times a year I don't understand why the flexibility isn't more important Then these concerns and I'm still not convinced a really a problem. But I think how this typically plays out is I'll use the example of a local option sales tax because you have that data in front of you all a lot of times the sales tax will be referred out to the voters for approval it'll be put on the date that is not consistent with when people usually go to the polls very few people other than those that would directly benefit or who are very very you know well who would directly benefit from passage of the sales tax they're the ones that know when the elections going to be held because it's on an irregular date you know February or August date for example they're highly motivated to turn out and the departure of the public doesn't know that it's occurring and that's why these things tend to sail through I mean that's that's generally how this occurs. The questions from committee members. Representatives gun. Thank you Mr chairman representative ready is there any known opposition like the Municipal League or anybody against this bill. Yeah you know the Municipal League is generally but opposed to this bill in the past I don't know if they're going to testify against it today or not. Okay thank you. Then you're recognized for a question thank you Mr chair representative ray who pays for an election if it's not in March or November or may or November. If it's in February or August who pays for the election. I don't know the answer the question. follow up. I would just say the taxpayer's the city and so if it's the city Russian the city be able to make the decision about whether to hold elections but not money or not. Well because the reason for the bill is that I think voters deserve reliable and consistent and predictable times to go to the polls you know we that. I'm making the argument that it is a good policy decision to set those parameters And so the it sounds like we just have philosophical disagreement on what those parameters automate. Representative very recognized for a question thank you Mr chairman and representative rate that does a superintendent or mayor just wake up in the middle of the night say honey I need a I we need to have a special election to raise the millage raise taxes that typically what happens or they know in advance when they need to raise taxes in their respective communities no I think these things can be foreseen in advance and plan accordingly thank you Mr you for the questions from committee members Committee without one person signed up to speak for the bill. Of. Jeremy. Hello I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. You would just thank you. Pretty close. How close was a you're closer to my mother in law. I've been married for over ten years so it was that it. But on yeah thank. The jury thank yous you're recognized thank you chairman Tosh and represent represent rate for this bill my name is Jeremy of Arkansas associate professor of economics at UCLA I'm also the director of the Arkansas center for research economics at UCLA at my testimony today is based on my research as a professor but is not official statement you CA that's want to share with you the handout that you have is based on the research I've done at UCLA with students and that you want to share what I think are some of the key data points on that sheet but some additional data as well that might answer some questions of when asked here today. so so that you can see there for example the average voter turnout at special elections for local option sales taxes over a forty year time period was nineteen percent I would also to get more into the detail of that four one hundred of those special elections it was below ten percent so there are a lot of them have a real low turnout general and primary election of course have higher turnout the second point I like to make is that tax increases are much more likely to pass at special elections seventy six percent you can see there in the data but also the important highlight that about half of them do pass still in a primary general election so holding them in a primary or general election does not preclude them from passing just makes them less likely and finally I think the date I'm showing you is for the time period when there was a lot more flexibility for localities to hold these elections with the change that came into effect in twenty twenty two that's when there limit to the four fix states in a year we have a ton of data since that such a recent change about this on the show for the data we have found cents January twenty twenty two there's been a couple actions for local option sales taxes there were five of them that took place during the the may primary and they had a turnout about fourteen half percent on average but then there were several special election sense and in Conway where I live we had in February of twenty twenty two a bond issue for pledge eighteen P. taxes that did pass and had turned out of less than six percent there is a local option sales tax it is North Little Rock in August twenty two twenty twenty two as well as in Little Rock they'd six bond issues at the election both of those are below six percent and then the final one that we we have located was the the one that represent raven mention the property tax millage in North Little Rock which is just in this past February it and they did that we did fail us to something they do fairly with low turnout but that had a about just under four percent turnout. so in conclusion I think as as it's been discussed here Arkansas does have the third highest average sales tax in the country and and at three percentage points of that not have is from local option sales taxes I think this is important into it to look at it for looking to limit those increases in the future as well as increase voter turnout so thank you for allowing me to speak at a glad to take any questions or elaborate on my research others the you have a way for you to make sure recognized. Thank you thank you Sir for being here and that this may be more by status dition type questions so if it's not in your will house please please tell me so yeah the the the the purpose of holding a an election is to get the will of the population. And as you do polling. The the more people you Paul the greater the likelihood you're actually going to capture what that will as if you're only sampling say representative gene and I you may or not may or may not get the. Well what this could committee as a whole as so my question is how large of a sample size do you generally need to get a population. You get a true understanding of what their will would be so for example in the selections you quoted only six percent of the population is turning out. Is that enough to really get the true will of what that population is and if not what percentage turnout and we need to be getting to really truly know if that is the will of the population. I thank you represent me except that it's a great question I think the short answer is there's no fix number we can say that will get that I think that the smaller the sample is more likely it's gonna be not representive but I can't give you it at a turnout rate and what you would necessarily be getting close to that but the law of large numbers would say the larger the sample to get the more likely is the representative thank you. Committee members say nine. Ninety. Press. The public testimony. Yes we've compel you to finish for your testimony yes Sir okay representative Brett has finished with these testimony no one else signed up for against the representative wrote Richmond recognized. I make a motion to pass. Discussion on the motion represent. As amended thank you we have a motion do pass as amended any discussion on the motion as amended represent you because you're you're recognized for discussion yes thank you Mr chair and Representative ray for bringing as it's time for citizens to take back and I believe this is a step. That in our cities and counties we can begin to take back the taxes that have been put on us and hopefully we'll be able to do that at the state level as well thank you. And I'm vote for it okay thank you representative property try the discussion discussion on the motion. Representative clan you're recognized for discussion on the motion thank you Mr chair I'm I'm a little bit I'm a lot bothered by the rhetoric here that we've heard we put a number of reasons we've we've heard and received a handout but this is about lowering sales tax it heard that this is about lowering costs and we've also heard that this is about increasing voter turnout I'm I'm excited about increasing voter turnout that peace and I hope that I see that thread I'm consistently through this chamber and there is committee and and other pieces of legislation I have to say that passing a bill. About the election process in general that is limiting our our municipalities and cities this way In an attempt to weigh in at the legislature on one particular issue like sales tax is very concerning to me I don't think that's our supply place and I'll be in now thanks. Representative very recognized for discussion on the motion thank you Mr chairman and I appreciate the representative clown these comments but I'm here to represent thirty two thousand rural constituents in the bottom line is when. One of my counties have to spend thirty thousand dollars per six hundred fifty people to show up and vote that is fifty Bucks a vote and that money can go to my senior centers in my communities and if a mayor or a superintendent cannot of plan on a to have this a millage increase for a rate increase whatever they want to do in conjunction with the special general elections then they shouldn't be in a position of leadership there's no long range strategic planning on their part in the bottom line is this bill. Is it makes it fair to our constituents all over the state of Arkansas with that be rule or at B. integrator metropolitan area it makes it fair to those voters that they have a voice thank you Mr. So much pleasure of the Committee. I have a motion passed. All in favor say aye. I have seven graduation bills passed thank you Committee. Members thank you for being here today which may be injured.