JBC-Personnel

All right members and for calling this meeting to order. We have a lengthy agenda today so and I want to go ahead and say up front that items B. C. D. and E. we want to hear those today but we are not going to take any action there are some pretty big restructuring going on and and some pretty big request so we want to give members the opportunity to hear the reason for the request and have time to digest it so that we can come back at our next meeting for personnel and take action but we do want to hear about it so am I want to go ahead and say that up front. So we will go ahead and get started item be treasurer of state if someone is here to speak to that. Welcome gentlemen if you'll state your name and who you're with for the record. Thank you my name is will Cheatham chief staff of the state treasury. Munson chief deputy treasurer state. All right thank you and okay if you guys will tell us about your proposal please. Okay thank you so we have. We have our proposal this morning you should have the. Copy of are amended budget we have made a few changes namely and we've we've net with netted three cuts in our current in our current staffing must mainly to include the cutting of one chief deputy treasurer position. one treasury manager three position and one treasury manager for position we have done a little bit of restructuring in creating a chief of staff position as well as a cheap public affairs officer position a director of government affairs position and a few others as you'll see here or previous appropriation for regular salaries. Before this administration took over came in at two million six hundred sixty three thousand two hundred twenty and with are amended appropriation we come in at two million six hundred sixteen thousand five hundred twenty eight regular salaries We'd like I said we've done a little bit more restructuring we've decreased a couple of line items namely and are comparable travel in our professional fees are operating expenses will remain the same And our capital outlay we have a. Request an increase to twenty five thousand and capital outlay it was previously the purpose line item for capital outlay was zero but we've requested twenty five thousand for capital outlay. So that is a general overview of our current current appropriation that will leave us at thirty two positions in the treasury. Which we assesses is right we need to be. We'll take any questions. Okay. Representative wouldn't you're recognized thank you own your own pages seven of nine what's what's the average percentage of us us to log ten percent raises here what do you know if you have the average percent for all of them the average percent of we do increase the average increase was a range from anywhere from ten to fourteen percent ten to fourteen yes Sir and you're giving up three positions that's correct and your your overall. Appropriation for services reducing about eleven hundred dollars that's correct Sir thank you thank you Mr. And can you help me understand the reason for the increase in salaries was there a study done or anything like that I see some of them are raised and some of them are not. so. Everyone of the all the all the positions. The ones that show that they did that so no raise they actually did get a raise the position was just re classifying and then as far as our or raises like I said it was the range from ten to fourteen percent and what we did was we're really trying to ensure specially with our senior best managers. and and various other positions these because these positions are also highly technical important we were trying to we're trying to make sure we're competitive with the markets especially as applied to our positions of the top considering our our last quarter postings and what we project for into this this fiscal year we we have to make sure that these that are there are bullies are are paid as best as as competitively as possible so that we will continue on. Thank you are there any questions from the members. All right scene and thank you guys thank you I appreciate you being here thanks. Okay moving on to item C. office of the Attorney General. Sir anyone to speak here. The Attorney General himself thank you Sir for being here. If you will please state your name and who you're with for the record. I'm. I'm Tim. Tim Griffin Attorney General. Thank you. Chairman for having me. Subject to your questions. Happy to answer anything and Yes thank you so I see it looks like you and have done it total restructuring of your office and you wanna give a little background on that for us please yes of the great thank you. When I took over. As I think of. We should always do we take over a new entity it's just sort of looked up I set out to look at everything and say forget how it has looked how should it look. In an ideal world and been working closely with with your staff. On this and what I noticed was and I knew this before I went in a lot of the job. Labels don't match what's in the appropriations bill I mean they're all jacked up in fact if you wanted to know who works and what they do the AG's office your bill would be of no help. Because it's just you know you had non lawyers and lawyers lots and it just all over the board so the first thing we said is let's make sure there is. Transparency and consistency between what we call people and what you call people so that you know what's going on in my office and so that was that's a big part of it so we we simplified the the number and the labelling of the slots for attorneys and not Turkey's that's one thing we did. The second thing is there were forty different job titles we got that down to fifteen. Again simplifying that of under the bill. The The other thing that we sought to do not give raises because a raise means that whatever we pass individuals are automatically going to get what we sought to do is to increase the amount of money in that range so that we have the flexibility to retain someone when I get a phone call as I have several times from a leader in my office who says we're losing so and so they're awesome. What can you do to keep them and I go well they're already at the line item Max. And I understand that I cannot raise people's salary above the line at a Max that is statutorily set in it's the law it governs my office and I've made that clear in recent. Indian I know there's been some discussion that will pass So what we're seeking to do is increase the range for slots in this is particularly important in the legal space because we're competing with a lot of farm so we've been very successful pulling from some of our our bigger more prestigious firms in town because I said look I don't want to be the biggest law firm all the best because taxpayers deserve that right. I don't want to be the place where people go if they can't go somewhere else only be the number one choice is so that requires us to have more flexibility so. I'm chairman that that explains some of that the good news if you're a fiscal hawk away I am is that I have proposed over ten million dollar cut. To our appropriation now you may say well what does that mean of specifically well it used to be as you know about a German there used to be one appropriation for the office. It was approximately twenty five million school Twenty four two one five one seven the is the current and that's for salaries because we cannot pay personnel out of settlement funds so there's that one amount or few years ago you also office at. And I don't disagree to appropriate the second amount for the Office covering settlement funds so I want some other offices we have to appropriate amounts we have the appropriate amount for you from general revenue for salaries and all of that operations all that and then we have a twenty five million dollar cap on transfers appropriated for settlement funds so I am seeking to reduce the twenty five million that you're all set I believe it was in twenty twenty down to fifteen million that's ten million dollar cut that I am proposing. No one's asked me to do that are up I'm doing that on my own. on the only. General revenue appropriations side it's not as big because there's not as much to cut but it is a reduction of twenty one thousand six hundred sixty six dollars what have we done there we've basically killed the waste and pushed it into investing in personnel. Kill the waste pushed it into personnel for example we had a line item for extra help we've eliminated that. And we've just. Figured out a way to save money but but I have a more robust of the staff. That's that's the general outline bound German I'm I'm happy to. Answer anything else on that. Or anything else. M. one question this maybe everyone as answer and have it cutting that ten million from the settlement funds does that money then go to general revenue or what is that ten million go well it sits in there in till you authorize it to go somewhere because any transfer. Any transfer of our reading of the law and let audits reading of the law and I believe I can speak for him but I believe the F. majoring in the transfer even within government constitutes a transfer under your appropriations language of that that you passed in twenty twenty no we do we are working with some members on fixing some of the statute that governs aw some of the rules on that because to be honest with you there are I think it different points in time people were trying to. Past things and there's a contradictory complicated hard to figure out stuff we're working with some folks on that but but that money would not be spent by many. In the AG's office it would sit there for the benefit of the public now there is the abatement money for example for opioids and. That will be coming in so you you would have the ability to say let's do this without money let's do this that would. But I would be limited fifteen million a year instead of twenty five. Thank you thank you for clarifying that I am we have got a question from center Payton you're recognized. Thank you madam chair you said a couple I'm I have two questions for you Sir couple things that piqued my interest when it comes to line items in the appropriation bill. And that the. Titles of some of your employees and staff did not match the line items for for spending and that can you elaborate on that some of that well well I simply met and I think this. I don't have every appropriations bill for the last few decades but I think just over time of certainly we can we can call people. what we won't and you know what. That's not the issue the issue is. The appropriations bill. Wasn't even close to matching. The positions that were in that are in that office not even I mean you'd be guessing if you said well the approach bill says. That so and so is an investigator for example well they might be a library. I mean just hypothetically there's no so there's no there's no alignment at all no that's no I don't think that's any one person's fall I think that's just happened it just happened over time and so we're just trying to tie it up. We're not saying that. Every every title every uses here but but it gives the general position of what you're talking about whether it be for example it may say assistant Attorney General in here and we might say we're the system during general for. Election integrity. But they still generally align okay so we're just trying to have. For my sake in your state and for the public to say. This will ultimately public for the public. And if the public sees. Something in here at all at least in some way to reflect reality right and so that Senator that's that some. That's what we're trying to get at so my second question if I may madam chair. Is. Regarding that second appropriation for twenty five million out of the settlement of. What is that money spent for of I assume the the first appropriation is covering the salaries and wages things like that. But the appropriation for twenty five million. In that second appropriation bill what is that money spent for and you're cutting IT ten million so what what his. Historically what has been being spent out of that for the last few years well. This is a whole other this is a long converse put it this way. The over time there are a lot of the reason that the general revenue amount has stayed about where this is because over Tom. As new responsibilities have been given or whatever there are things that are spent out of the not personnel but that are spent out of the of the settlement so. That serve as a supplement has to be viewed as an overall appropriation basically I believe I will speak for legislators and obviously legislative each have their own views but I think it's fair to say someone who knows a lot of get that a lot of overtime people have viewed that as a supplement as a as a supplement to the other general revenue side and so certain things come out of there. Like their rent has been out of there before and things like that No one else comes in well sometimes we have to pay for attorneys fees to our turns out of there not to our attorneys but our current contract with. We went in case. We got to pay them right there are a lot of different things that go out if the if the state police say we really need. This is just a hard. But if we really that you know we really make half a million for body. If we decided to do that that would come up. Obviously in the in the last administration of. Every a lot of the stuff that has been in the news. Him out of there. The twenty million. That was transferred before I took office to the General Revenue Code ten million of which we got back because we believe violate the law no it did That was out of their money for things like missile Tana that was given that was out of there we have a whole spreadsheet of what came out of there and and so. Now all the ads that were run a public service announcmenet adds up which was we've added up to be almost nine million dollars that all came out of there I have a just for the record I have a public service announcmenet budget zero dot zero zero. so what I don't spend anything on that So all of that came out of their vote no that wouldn't nine million in the year eight point seven million a year that was. Averaged about two hundred thousand a year for a while then it went up to about three million to three million a year but that came out of there. In that money goes into. Before it spent often the consumer education and enforcement fund which you also put in a balance a balance capital of a million dollars under that has. Not been of followed but there's a cap on that too I don't have any immediate plans to to. And anything like that out of there but but those are the sorts those are the sorts of things that have come out of that I'm Senator mention PSAs and do want to mention this because it's all related to this account I have a zero dot zero zero. Budget for PSAs and what we are but we just approved to ads because my predecessor committed me are contracted me. Through the end of this fiscal year and so there are some ads I did not want my name likeness image on them and so I reached out to the state police it Hager Senator Hager is said look we've got this air time that I am by. but it's we're committed to it own your radio and I think razorback network as well. I would have done that but I'm committed to it I'm not you can't waste it so is there a message that you all would like and they gave me I also want to have a script and all that it didn't we did one on Being from police and the consequences of that and also of the dangers of what of of not check in which kids are or are doing on on the phone those were both suggestions there's they do not have my name likeness image they do not have disclaimers because not required to and they're only radio but just wanna be real clear you may hear those that's not money that I committed to that is money that was already committed to and I'm just finishing the contract. Is that your under this more than you want to know the answer to a lot of that but what I really want to know is the bottom line if we're going to go from twenty five million appropriation to fifteen. What has been the spend out of that. Last year the year before. All that twenty have we spent ten of it we've been spending twelve of it or. Office the captive in. Blown out. So we spend more than the twenty five million five million in preparation when I took office I think we were about thirty six million. We just learned that I just learned that a few days ago because we're doing that so you did ask this but I will tell you that so we hired a CPA who's also an attorney she's been with us for. Reworked. Which calendar from a qualifying for they're still mad about it and she is over saying our. Of everything that has been spent on man whatever it is so. A few days ago that was late last week I walked into the office they said we it looks like. That we are at. Thirty something may. Of and we got ten back. Of that is real close to forty million we got ten back from. Because as you read the paper probably of ten million of that was opioid money that we we had to get back because of legal restrictions in and the outside counsel hired by my predecessor they agreed that that was not consistent with the laws we got that back but we were still. We was that we're still over the past after that ten million Bucks Looking for confirmation so even with the ten million black that we got back from a D. F. and I and they had kept it. In an account. With the idea that they may have to. It may not be able to keep that under the law of this we got that back we were still after that over. We are currently today over the maximum we just I just learned a few days ago. Of because. Otherwise I would have told you senator so of course I feel the need to to tell you that because. I respect your power your forty and I will abide by all of the. All of the guidance in law that you provide and and so. Yes we are currently over and we are trying to figure out how we can get. Some money back that when I don't. So that we're no longer over. and. That will help get us through the end of the fiscal year. Thank you thank you madam chair thank you an attorney general growth and we and have a copy of your letter and just passed out to the rest of the committee so they can understand a little more in detail about what you're talking about and we I see that and. The account. The dispersed three point excuse me thirty six point one million so as you said ten million over at eleven million over the and twenty five million dollar limit. And that was contained in act fifty four of twenty twenty two and is there anything else you want us to know or understand about this letter I would say for the time this letter was written. And a day later there was another. Three million file three million. Right to may and the other two million so it's it's closer to forty million total there's about two million of the of that is since I got there because we had to pay attorney's fees about that amount in the case that we were involved in you know so that's that's why. That's why it's not enough for me to to try to get money back in there to get is just below we need a little cushion in case we get another attorney's fee bill although we could hold it to the next fiscal year but but if it goes down to fifteen obviously will respect the law will limit transfers to fifteen million which I propose. So are you mentioned that you're trying to get some of that money back where if you can but then you also mentioned that some of it is already been committed like the PSA that you're working on so has has all that money been C. bit or committed I mean is there a way that we can get any of that money back to you think so. Twenty seven point five million. In excess of the cap was transferred to one day before I took office and that was January six so we got ten million of that back which was open for which was what we call restricted funds it cannot be spent. We'll email it is the British would say are it is it has to be for a particular purpose so there was ten million and unrestricted funds of that. We originally fall. We could just leave it with y'all basically we general revenue sitting over D. F. and I. D. F. and I is informed us that. It is still. And the account where it went to I don't have that letter with me I don't think and so we are seeking. To get enough of that back. Not all ten is is not been spent it came directly from our office we're seeking to get enough of that back to get this legal. And have a little bit of offered to get us through the end of the end of June in case we get another big two million dollar. Bill for whatever of for attorneys fees or whatever so we are seeking to do that from the executive branch. Okay thank you the and do you know M. if you've already said it I missed it but what that twenty seven point five million on January sixth I believe to yes yes madam chairman Ten million I'm sorry I cut you off what did that go to yes okay that's right ten million was open it was twenty million of it. Ten million Google unrestricted ten million opioid restricted twenty million of it came over for the purpose of opioid abatement there was a lot of press on okay the seven point five million I'm gonna go off memory that I'm a look back here so if I'm wrong I believe that was set to go to the state police the bill where at the. Product. Training facility. Thank you. That clarifies that for me I appreciate that and representative Wooten you're recognized for a question. General the if if I understand what you're telling us. These funds were used perhaps OR were used to circumvent. More than the appropriation it was approved for the office is that what you're. The more than the appropriation was transferred out of the office. So. The twenty five million. Has been over run even by doing these other transactions but two point four million is that right. Well the twenty five million was exceeded by about eleven. Because the. Or thirteen million because I think we're looking at thirty eight million. Number in flux you may say well why is that why can't you just look and figure it out well if you come over I'll show you We are literally we have a CPA on that she's literally matching all. Bills. This piece of paper emails that describe transfers I'm described my. and so it you know you may find Hey we we didn't we didn't know about this invoice is so. That's the way this that's why that's a little bit of a moving target but I think it's fair to say we're looking at about thirty eight million in transfers out of the appropriated settlement pool funds in the current fiscal year prior to me have. Follow up of monies own own page I want to give back to the personnel part of blown page fourteen. under regular salaries and down to the total amount appropriated. Looks like you've got to a hundred and eight hundred and eighty thousand dollars. I don't I don't have a page for team no thank. Okay we'll all this is the only yes yes. Thank you. The eight hundred eighty thousand and then. The you head for positions on page fifteen and the of an increase of a hundred and eighty eight thousand thank you. And then over on page sixteen of there's a four hundred ninety five billion was elected to this gift to the end result overall you're reducing a hundred twenty seven thousand dollars is that correct this was well for the entire for the entire general revenue appropriations were reducing twenty one six six hundred sixty six thousand of. But I think it's fair to say we're reducing what what we're doing is simplifying reorganizing completely because what you have does not match reality and that's not appropriate may not be illegal not legal unnecessarily but is not appropriate and It's not the way we ought to be run in the railroad we ought we ought to have an understanding I'll respect the appropriations bill in you oughta know generally what the heck's going on in my office in so that's what we're seeking to do to they're trying to changes the bottom line is proposing twenty one six six six cut to the General Revenue procs proposing a ten million dollar cut to the some of Fund approached. Thank you thank you madam chair thank you a Senator Hester you're recognized for a question. Yeah. Attorney General but I'm. In regards to this letter on the appropriations. It is it was or anything similar in in the personal line item were were was the authority appropriations honored in it orders are over overstepping those. Well. I believe in this table. You had a hearing in this room you had a hearing about. The whole the meaning of line item Max right is that fair I think that was Senator Hickey and Senator Dismang I don't know who else was in on that but. The idea that. We're an independent constitutional agency do we have to abide by the the line item Max's the answer is yes they're in the law at work we are separate constitutional office but we're not a separate government and so I think you're familiar Senator with that whole debate all we we're paying no one over line item Max's. That you. Provide in the law that's why we've come come back to seek your permission to change all that. Yeah but but I guess and just because you're the ones that in front of us was this a problem. In twenty twenty two. Up there was there was a problem with pay and some people in my office some of which are still on staff of above the line a Max that is not occurring now you know we're gonna get it corrected with this our thank you. Well we've already corrected that that's not dependent upon this. We have no one. What by care home also is. What. All that was in the previous fiscal year there's no one currently. Being paid beyond what you say. So we're in compliance with all that. Thank you at representative Cavenaugh you're recognized for a question thank you madam chair thank you I'm over here thanks just quick question so we changed it to twenty five million in twenty twenty two. Is I'm is my understanding so do you happen to know prior to twenty twenty two how much of that was actually spent so we can get a kind of idea of why we went to twenty five million do you I'm a gold member here I think the year of prior to the current fiscal year it was about twelve and a half million. And prior to that was about three minutes. So it jumped up substantially. Okay follow manager. So do we know. Where the twenty five million cap how we came up with the twenty five million do we do you have a recollection of why that was I was in the Senate as lieutenant governor at the time of. Bob I'm sure I heard. I know the news events that led to it but I do not know how the twenty five million. Was determined I do not know that I can tell you that there's no. The most I've ever seen other than the the thirty eight or so the most I've ever seen spent from that is about twelve and thirteen. Which was the year before and that's why I'm comfortable saying well look of less raining down of to to fifteen because that's more except for this year that's more than ever been spent and in fact if you took the twenty million. That was France for ten million of which we already got by. If you took that away which was done like four days before I took office. You'd be it would be in compliance. Because if you take thirty eight. Minus twenty eighteen. So So it's not hard to get back down there and that was not really that was not that twenty million was not spent only specific saying our government about this from a by that it was transferred out of the office. Aw to get it over to you all in general revenue and it sat D. F. and they had concerns about taken. That money particularly the opioid. Or that And that and they didn't do anything with it they just give me a held it and I've also done the same of I can't speak for the FNA but going on pretty good information that they've kept that Google unrestricted Google money just sitting there as well. I'm just also when we talk about these fund balances I'm sure you heard during budget hearings we kept asking about interest and do you have a recollection where this interest on these funds go to fifty all it just goes it just goes. I'm I answer but I'm pretty darn sure this is right it just adds to that account. To that cash fund balances from my understanding is the ten million that stating that Google unrestricted ten million of sitting at the half and that he has already earned. Eleven thousand in interest. Correct. I read a report you give. Eleven eleven thousand interest so that's now ten million eleven thousand probably twelve today sitting over at the have a nice that goes back to plow back into. That number okay thank you Sir. All right Senator Hammer you're recognized for a question thank manager to find a first of all the settlement funds that come down sometimes are dictated to by the terms as authorized by the judge do you in all this conversation today see that what you're proposing is going to place any limitations on your ability to make settlements with the court whenever you represent cases that you win. Nope I thought it was going to do that I wouldn't do it you're you're right the senator the the agreement between the parties and the judge is the governing that's the government document and we need maximum flexibility when negotiating settlements so that we get maximum we have maximum leverage the more of your your correct and hinting at the fact that you are options we have less leverage we have less money we get for the state if the other side knows that we're very limited options they're gonna leverage that to be used to give us less so it is true we need maximum flexibility I am confident that a couple things of this proposal is consistent with what we need to best represent state because we're gonna be able to maintain continue hiring some of our best determines so we can go toe to toe some of these forms and have no limit on what they can pay in all and their resources and also I see until this past fifty two of this current fiscal year there never been any money spent beyond the thirteen or seven million so of fifteen million a. I think it's completely it doesn't hamper us in anyway I would never do that okay my second question is this lot of conversation day let me just get to the point your chief legal officer for the state of Arkansas in all this is your presenting in this letter comments have been made by the previous administration that you're now over are you proposing that anything legal has been done with the handling of the money that you would pursue any kind of legal action or are you just saying it's just poor management money management well you're you're the appropriate. what it's not what I said is I'm when I take office I'm going to do a complete accounting. Of everything there which I would want to do in any office at any time. That's what a manager does you say okay. What do I have been from here and when you've got understand so I don't think it's unusual to I mean I did sales going to do it so I was gonna do. What had I not said I was gonna do. I would find it all I that I wouldn't go through and find out what the heck I'm taking over right ministers that's good that's good business so. What I'm doing is is making certain that people know. What is a result of my decisions verses not result. That's important because I don't want to be sitting right here to one why did you because I respect your authority and I don't want to be I will jump at me up for some other day and and so but but also this is this is ultimately something that. Is in your will house. Manager so that's up to you manager question to the chair I don't know if Kevin Sheeran I mean we can find out after the fact I'm I'm just not up to speed on if you exceed your preparation limits like has been testified to today if I'm interpreting it right. What. What's the accountability for doing such as that and the legal action is that you know mismanagement get called on the carpet what's the repercussions and if I don't know if Tony or Kevin or will deferred I'll get it privately Wycheck curvature wants to handle it. Mmhm. Yes I would mention that we've looked at this and this this would not be subject to an illegal exaction suit by a taxpayer we would not in so I just want to mention that the other thing I would mention it if we get the if we get some money back we will be. Will be. Under the cap for conduct remedy that ace. Thank you. Okay. But chairman address Kevin White questions yes I think he's prepared to answer your question okay Kevin just for clarity my question is based on testimony today it would appear that that the. Reviews agency exceeded the appropriation caps that were allowed unless a Mrs understanding something so I wanted to know what is what what's the accountability what's the penalty of our legal actions as a just get called on the carpet for bad mismanagement or what what's the path. Okay Thank you Kevin Anderson your once a research. This this is a pretty complicated issue and that this they have settlement funds in the past they did not require an appropriation. A substance legislation was passed. couple sessions ago that did require them that they require every agency have appropriation for spending. This is new to me and I'm a little bit afraid up just yes without doing a little bit of research so I'd really like to to look into that a little bit further I I do know that there were some exemptions in the legislation that was passed. And that I would think that may fall within their and also there's the issue of them being a constitutional agency being exempt so it there's a lot of moving parts this that we really would require a little bit of research before I opine on this thank you and I appreciate that ma'am sure what I would request is we need to do it in this format or always for privately is just for this to be re searching for something to be prepared to be brought back to this committee or delegated to the appropriate committee just so there be clarity brought I think with that having been brought up public the way it is or at least the. We referred audit but I think because names have been mentioned indicated I think it's only fair that this be looked at and some of you know something writing be referred out so we can have a point of reference that would be my request manager. Yes thank you thank you that Ballinger I'm sure yes shall make one comment on that yes to be fair I think that. There are some. Who may have believed that if they transferred money within the government. It doesn't count toward the cap. We we've had numerous people look at that we've talked with people outside the office and we see no basis for that belief but that has been. I would I'll give it a benefit of the doubt and say that has been a good faith belief of some people that if you for example sent the money to the FNA then for some reason that one going to count toward the caps. But the terminology in the state in the appropriations bill I believe the words transfer. Of which is different than an expense an expense account right but transfers anything that leaves your office and so but just to be fair there are some people who have tried to say well if we're not transferring it out of government it will. Touch the cap well in many cases though. The transfer in government is to get it out of government right because the restrictions put years ago that said okay you can't just write X. amount to the United Way you have to give it to a particular agency who then gives it to the United Way which is consistent with the view that all transfers count toward that that's that's something that you may see in. All up there. All right thank you thank you an representative gene you're recognized for a question. Thank you madam chair. General I'm over here I will get you operation budget. Hundred forty eight. employees is your maximum how me get hi we got working today. One forty two okay of it it's always in flux as you know okay back about half attorneys have support staff I'd say approximately two thirds of. It is about half an hour okay of so. The hundred forty range that that's what you think you need to operate for any general office I know you just. You're just in there well I'm away after session you know it depends on how many new assignments I'm given you know little bit of a job there but from. Election integrity to this and that of look I'm happy to take on whatever. I never want to take on something and do it halfway so I think we've built into this a little bit a question if I could I'll tell you my Medicaid of fraud direct identity. They for every dollar we spend their they re. Huge dividends for the taxpayer so we a lot of those are partially federally funded. And we qualify for a lot more there in the I sat down and said look if we are finding more fraud in making money for the taxpayer there we ought to we ought to increase that that office because of the law for all that we're not cage so I think I think that over time that will fluctuate but I think we're generally I think this generally reflects where we need to be and if I could do well I think what you said earlier correct me if I'm wrong that most the salaries that you have for your key people that they're maxed out is that correct we've. Yes Sir what I did just openly and transparently when I got there we were we had several people leave. Because of that and some of them left before I could bump up but a lot of them hadn't. Been given competitive. Rages on Wall somehow. And I saw to ameliorate that address that immediately because we're in a war for talent particularly in this in this profession of the law and people can go make double so you really got a tract on with a lot of other stuff right really cool vending machines. A good culture you know I've been doing everything I can to keep our keep our people happy so that they can look at something other so that's not just the money but the money is important for people to have their kids education all that stuff so I have leaned into that and I think that's the one that's a really good management decision to get paid to keep the people because we have to re train new people. Which can be hundreds of thousands of dollars of experience out the door like that because you would give someone a five round Roach. As making sense so yes I have done that Mr and what I want to hear from you is your only around a hundred forty. Employee so we don't we don't have opportunity to surrender some positions and take that money these other so we're going above a bump up in your opinion and and the salary structure yes Sir we found savings outside of salary in fact if if if I could of the two calls there is an government personnel and programmatic non personnel it's much easier to cut personnel because people because an attrition people retire they they leave they get fired they pass away whatever. I it's much easier to deal with that money on the personal side if you put on programmatic side as you know. It may never go away of so I'm very comfortable putting the investment on the personnel side. As opposed to the other side and we've made serious cuts there and found deficiencies but I am absolutely I absolutely believe that we need to keep the people we've got number one up and that that means. Taking care of the ones we've got they're doing a good job okay thank you general thank you madam chair. Thank you are. Are there any other questions from the committee. All right scene nine. Thank you thank you very much I appreciate your he you all have my cell phone please call me if you have any questions or concerns like a motion yes thank you. At this time I'm going to skip item D. and go to item Eads and just because there are a lot of people here waiting I think they have other places to be at their meeting so we're going to get it and game and fish and then come back to you auditor of state. Thank you off you're please introduce yourselves and say you're with for the record. A good morning madam chair and to the committee minutes awesome Bluetooth I'm the director of the Arkansas gamefish Commission it's privilege to lead this agency and I'm very thankful for the opportunity to present our personal package this morning and will turn it over to my colleagues introduce themselves. Bobby Martin the chairman of the Arkansas gamefish Commission. I'm Jan Holland chief of human resources. Englishmate CFO. All right M. I. see that you guys have done a study and I've gotten some feedback from that so if you would please explain your proposal to the committee. Yes ma'am I roughly a year ago the Arkansas gamefish Commission set out to do a a agency wide compensation study where so we could compare contrast where the Arkansas game fishes compensation compared with other conservation agencies our competitive market as we define it it consisted of peer states of Arkansas state government and also certain NGOs in the conservation industry like national wild Turkey federation rocky mountain elk ducks unlimited doctor water fell so on and so forth the The conclusions from that long study that we utilize a third a third party for was that compensation throughout the agency was on average nineteen point one percent below market and so this proposal today will do two things one it will reclassify a handful of positions within the agency to let us achieve some efficiencies within the agency and the other thing that will do is increase the salary maximums of to let us pay a more competitive wage to some of our employees within the Arkansas infers Commission I'm happy to say that this proposed amendment to our biennial budget has support for the governor's office does not add a single dime to our appropriations and does not add any new positions. Thank you and representative eighty you're recognized for a question. The first thing Mr director glad to see you today just to put your mind at ease I wanted to know you don't have to worry about recording this meeting we're doing it for you and with that I would ask that the compensation study that you guys have recent recede I think we would like to see a copy of that compensation study at the committee level looking through the re alignment of positions and and the changes in salaries. can you I noticed that I guess the largest number out of this your enforcement tool. And there was no increase on on the enforcement tool as far salary so I'm I'm looking where you've got your corporal sand your your game warden class so can you explain that. On the actual salaries representative Beatty the Arkansas game and fish commission increased all of enforcements actual salaries last fiscal year by fifteen percent across the board and then in addition to that and this amendment we've increased the salary caps by twenty percent. What I was just looking at what you provided in there a lot of changes in different different levels there and it just looked like that enforcement pool at a hundred twenty seven if you went back looked at the original budget was there at a hundred twenty five positions those numbers are a dollar off so that was that was my question a yes Sir those corporal game warden and first class positions we actually went ahead and upgraded those ahead of the study we did that during the biennial hangs if you compare that salary to what it's currently authorized today you'll see that twenty percent increase but I apologize for the confusion yeah I know he's going from what the materials that we provided but I think that study would provide some insight to this so we can get that I would I would be happy thank you. And members of I'm having copies made right now that show it in a spreadsheet format so you can kind of see a little bit better percentages and before and after and at representative Wardlaw yet a question. Yes thank you madam chair. Also can you kind of walk through the justification for this to me looking at this it looks like pretty huge increases and now you know gamefish as had money issues now for few years we've talked about license increases we talk about different avenues to get to their. And we have the infrastructure needs and all the things that are needed just kind of walk us through the justification on moving these of caps up to where you're opposing the move. Yes Sir let let of. It's no secret that we have long long term revenue and resource concerns but resources are just an issue another selves there there're they're directly connected to the long term challenges that we face namely improving the quality of our habitat increasing public access to the extent that Arkansans expected of and also having the proper infrastructure we need to do that habitat management of consistent wouldn't not nineteen fifties conditions but with two thousand twenty thirty forty conditions of so the researchers so the resource need is directly connected to our long term challenges Bill we're behind in lots of areas in this agency and another one of them it is is personnel and when we conducted the study and we saw that that we were as far behind at at as we are it's my belief and the belief of our commissioners that the best way to make the long term challenges more of a challenge is to ignore what we can control most easily and that's what kind of people are we recruiting and retaining because we because we believe that our challenges are so substantial that it'll take the best and the brightest and that's what the people of Arkansas to serve. Ballinger follow. So what we've heard this morning from the other agencies come the tables competitions an issue and in your world was biologists and game wardens I mean you're what you're sitting here saying aye your resources if you don't and you're not able to raise these caps are not going to build a higher good quality folks are folks period to fill these positions and make sure that our wildlife is protected and to make sure our habit that is instilled for years to come true. Yes competition is a huge issue for us we've had over over thirty percent turnover in our agency in the past four years the caps have not been substantively adjusted in over a decade and we're not in bill to keep the pace that we need to without modern caps so in other words your problems not unique it's a problem that every agency is facing after every business in America is facing at this point that's right thank you. A representative if I I will be out of order chairman but if I could just make a comment there being chairman on the commission this is my seventh year and speak to how competitive the market place is I think that's part of your point we certainly see that feel that I've been apart and seen us higher three directors in my seven years and that's to committee so our ability you know certainly knowing like everyone here in the room to understand water cans and expect certainly what the governor's office expects what use legislature expects you we've got to be able to compete nationally and that's why we you know conducted the study and I speak a really for myself as well as most of the commissioners to us or whether in the room with us we believe the salary range will allow us to get and be able to compete nationally to bring the right kind of talent to the state the wi was believed to serve. Thank you representative what you're recognized for a question my question for chairman Martin are you telling me. That you're writing your own these increases ranged from eighty one percent to three point six percent. And you got your you're going to pay your director more than any other secretary and state government that he's that bail you will. To you to your agency. service this is not just about Director booth it is I'm asking you a direct question yeah you going but you all recommending you pay him two hundred and seventy seven thousand dollars a year he's making a hundred and fifty two now and you're going to pay him to or have the ability to pay him and from what you from your remark. Your goal rates and the actual listeners U. K. is that correct a person again we're not setting salary today this is only the range gap as you just pointed out and to be competitive again we won out this time yep I'm sorry I try to stay in competition what you're telling us that we're ready to. We're eighty one percent of the market. AS of the date of the Director today is twenty two thousand dollars below any state secretary cabinet today but staying competitive in the market this is what the study guides us to and we believe this is the salary range that allow us to enter and then be able to keep ourselves competitive not just to attract and recruit would be able to retain okay so so use in the around those still rounding state we're twenty two thousand dollars all what are we raising is maximum of two hundred seventy seven thousand. Again we're we're not suggesting that today we're not setting his for his cap are his actual salary this is just the range cap for the director positions that this study we conducted provides us to remain competitive within the conservation agencies that we recruit out of how we will position that obviously in terms of his salary adjustment will come you know at a later time. Thank you madam chairman. Thank you senator Hammer you're recognized for a question thank you have chair so I'm I'm looking through the paperwork we've got here and I'm just trying to get something cleared up we've got we've got one that's part of ours that has the access through an are you familiar with this survey all seen this that we've got a a yes Sir Hammer okay so. Why why is that Extell reside just I just need to understand why this is in the package but it's got the X. through it. do the number of modifications that we are making to our appropriations bill we thought it would be clean year that it would be cleaner and easier of to read if we just deleted the entire section and replace the entire section okay and then I think what we were just handed was what was maybe ask for it is this the this just the results of the study from the company that you're hired is that what this is madam chair can you is that what we're getting. Yes okay that's correct that the excerpt yes Sir okay who is the company did up for a police there are a committee called C. biz. Okay see all right and are they recognized nationally as one that is accustomed to doing this for state agencies in other states I guess yes Sir absolutely of one of the more recent conservation agencies that they did a similar study for is Missouri department of conservation okay and and you also what you're proposing today is to work within the number of employees that you've got just basically realign the numbers in order to try to get the current positions that are there competitive with what the results showed but what's the what's the net increase to your budget proposal in order to do that zero all right SO zero increase to your budget case in the same number of positions you're just realigning the stars yes Sir how are you gonna do that without taking away from somebody in order to get to somebody or help me understand that if you would. We're gonna take it slow. were against work and take implementation slow and we just see this as a once and direct a once in A. generation opportunity to match the caps again not to anyone person not to any actual salary but to match it to the competitive market that we're up against every day. And if I may just add to that the market in our conversational moving slow the information on front of you seventy five percent of the market that is not our target for salaries and the number that was in our letter that talked about nineteen point one percent below the competitive market that was fifty percent off the market we're just trying to get people to what is the twenty fifth percentile of the market so we estimate that the average increase from this and take home will be between ten to fifteen percent so we're circuit we would still have a long way to go to even meet the standards set out by what's the best provided for us but we want to get our our staff closer okay so it but at some point then you're going to be coming back to us and asking for an increase in preparation increasing your funding and do you anticipate that to be are we doing that this session the next fiscal session or when do you anticipate that come. well I can assure you that that well. We see the extent of the increases to the caps now indicative of the fact that we have not done this in over a decade. So of. In the next biennium. Maybe the biennium after if there's large changes again not just with our employees but with where the market is. If there's large changes in the market like we've seen the past three to four years that will be back and and the like like we are now that request will be nested with where the market's doing and the data to support it but we don't expect any additional funding or appropriation to accomplish this within the next biennium you're just wanna get the ball rolling today's what's exactly right okay the all right thank you. Thank you representative Cavenaugh you're recognized for a question thank you madam chair I'm over here okay I just. Run as quick numbers and I know that you all are just asking for the Max but this is what sticks out to me. Is the Max that you're asking for. Say for the director the chief of staff I mean that the colonel they're all from eighty one to fifty two percent okay well and one of a meeting goes down to forty six when you look at chief of staff that's your highest paid people when you look at your lowest paid people you're only asking to raise them twenty eight and thirty two percent and I guess that's where some of us are having some heartburn with this accent from Max increase is those people on the bottom aren't getting an equal raise and we're you're asking us to approve a cap on the director where you're telling us I make less than twenty two thousand less than the states around us you're asking us to increase that Max five hundred and twenty four thousand four hundred and sixty two dollars that is almost double the current Max and I guess when we're looking at it I guess that's where some of us are having little concern. Can I can I correct make sure I was clear and I think I said it wrong or your when I reference the directors compensation twenty two thousand dollars below it's below any other state secretary in the state of Arkansas not just neighboring states. Representative Cavenaugh we were we were. Very clear up front as we went out to retain a third party to look over our shoulder to do this objective analysis on our own what we cared about most was the market. Of. The that said. Adjusting to the market has all has always been about the most important people in this age she and that's the people that are in the field every single day. So an approach that I did not want to take was setting. My own compensation for having anything to do with my own compensation. So I simply said I'm let the market dictate when we say we're objective we mean that And that number is simply what the third party came back with if this body or or the or the legislature Would like to discuss that further warm where Sir or Sir we're certainly more than happy to do that but again the priority for this agency has always been the boots on the ground the one that that has been overlooked the most for more than a decade. Follow madam chair I appreciate that. But when you discount look at the numbers eight and make sure I Bills race because they're not the ones is getting the equal compensation and I understand and and they are the ones that are important to both on the ground and and I think we don't want to forget those when we're looking at that and back on the twenty two thousand you're saying that he's bold twenty two thousand below in the Secretary. A yes ma'am I think the next hi this is a hundred and sixty seven thousand and are directors hundred forty five thousand. Okay I have the right information which I believe that a. Yes that's not quite the numbers that are showing but my question is when you compare his salary to the other states where's he at. We can provide that information ma'am okay I believe the market average of was yeah I'm not asking for average I'm asking for the states around us. We can get seven okay thank you. And misc and I'm so sorry just want to add about the Max is not going up there are several positions where the market actually came back lower current maximums but the entries will go up to give you an example of that our boots on the ground biologist the maximum is not changing for that position it's going to stay at seventy five thousand four dollars but the minimum is going to increase nine thousand dollars to bring to ensure that we have everyone closer to the market so we've cautioned our staff not to interpret and if they see the maximum changes today and that that does not mean that that they will not be receiving an increase we are we are truly the whole pay plan I'm going through this to bring the entire grid towards market. Thank you represented eighty you're recognized for a question. Thank you madam chair Just a quick question here I understand this is just dealing with the Max salaries I think what might make me feel more comfortable I know about the other members it's kind of where we are on average salary for those positions to see what the potential and and kind of where we are paying those positions not so much focused on the Max your average may be well below the current Max but I think that would make me feel a little better is to see where the average compensation is we don't have that information of the other things I want to follow back up on something that the director said I think you said that the administration the governor's office was. An agreement and approved of of these increases we all understand that your constitutionally independent so my question is if they approve of the of the increase in the Max are they were you just told to stay within your budget. I think I fully understand the question of. What I'll restate all up without my my near to where you tell they they approved and did not disagree with the salary increases or you told that stay within your budget. I was told that they of. That the approved because even though we are constitutionally independent you know like I tell my kids all the time just because you can that mean you should we wanted to coordinate with the governor's office before we submitted anything to the spot and and follow. The other issue I have is early into the session before we got here there was a great move to follow up on something the representative Wardlaw said there's a great move to increase the fees on Arkansas sportsman. And do you understand that with the fee push to certainly look at these Max increases how that could give some of us calls to look at that can you explain that my question all along has been control the things that you can't control the salary Max's some water things you can control the fee increases that went away and now this comes up can you understand why that gives me pause and should give a lot of the other members calls you can you speak to that. Are you saying Sir that that Because we ask for a fee increase of it and now we're asking to pay our people more money than that those two things are intention with each other. No I'm just saying it gives me pause that you need more money for operations and to address the other problems and issues and I don't envy the job that you have but then when when that was an issue to bring in more money to the agency now that that's gone away now you can you can proposed salary increases for all the all the staff. Yes well of. We have never said that we have a short term crisis right now. And when we look at at at what we think is a responsible way to run an agency of we want to look long term and try to tackle long term challenges and bring proactive solutions to the to those long term challenges since October we had our budget hearing here and I said this table and said that we were going to pursue a license fee increase we Watson conservation sales tax grow we watch the economy the team need to grow and we said that that that we will have sufficient cash fund balances that we've accrued from either unusual growth during the pandemic or under execution of our construction projects due to abysmal weather conditions we have sufficient cash balances within the next biennium to to not neglect a short term problem and our personnel and therefore not make a long term problem our infrastructure and our habitat workers. Following that I appreciate the latitude Another question I'm I'm for the rank and file members of game and fish doesn't mean I'm against you but the boots on the ground the language you just use and again when I look at the numbers I was given I didn't see that those folks were getting the increases that that others were getting and in the numbers you provided. Those are the folks that Mostar cantons have interaction with day. Those guys those men and women there out in the field that are working that's see that's who are key and some still with they don't deal with the executive side of the agency so I'd I'd really like to see more information on what we're doing for the rank and file and to provide some information there one other thing and then I'll I'll let other Speaker we can move on. one thing that I've been waiting for an opportunity to discuss is in your in your long range plan the inclusion of the year diversity equity and inclusion was mentioned in that plan and I'd like to speak to that as to why that was included in that plan for and how we can get that removed from that plan for. If I if I can first address the rank and file boots on the ground members of the Arkansas game and fish commission of. As I've communicated to them of It Vance of saying what are amended would look like. I I told them and their leadership the what they're gonna see reflected today. Our Maxis. And that if we see an eighteen percent and a just making numbers up there an eighteen percent increase in the Max they should not draw from that that they're gonna receive an eighteen percent increase in pay and if they don't see any increase in Max they shouldn't take from that they're not gonna get any kind of Hey we would absolutely love to be to provide you with some of our thoughts and plans around implementation. Just so you know the that of our passion is in the same place representative body of a year ago when it came time for the Arkansas game and fish commission to think about pay increases for FY twenty two of we intentionally gave pay increases to the bottom third in the middle third before we gave it to the top there we had unanimous support from our commissioners for that and from that up with top there the just voluntarily said we agree with the kind of inflation that we're seeing now it should be the bottom third and the middle third that received these pay increases at our exclusion. Regarding diversity equity and inclusion of what we think that looks like in the Arkansas out of outdoors and why it appears in natural state tomorrow of the Arkansas outdoors means something to the state that is different. It is part of our passion part of our identity part of our culture in Arkansas that. To be Frank other states don't have. And so it should stand a follow that when we use terms like diversity equity and inclusion that may mean one thing nationally that could look something very different in Arkansas. And when it comes to diversity equity and inclusion in the and the Arkansas outdoors I'm excited to work more with this body with the public with our stakeholders with our industry to talk more about what that looks like. What was in our natural state tomorrow plan that you're referencing representative Patey of was that we would establish diversity equity and inclusion goals. And one of the goals that I express the last time I was here or one of the problems rather that we hope to tailor some goals to is that we simply want the Arkansas outdoors to look more like our candidates. So for us as we're thinking about diversity equity and inclusion in the literal sense. We're thinking about disability in more terms than just people that qualify for a disabled hunting license we're thinking about how to get more blind kids fishing. When we think about diversity in terms of the Arkansas outdoors we're thinking about where are the underserved communities in Arkansas not in terms of of any kind of political representation but in terms of. Where people not bind fishing license how do we get after those people. How to get more fishing rods into kids hands in every corner of the State. We would absolutely love to keep you all posted at every step of the way by what we mean. By D. I.. But we can assure you that diversity equity and inclusion literally. As it's meant literally in the Arkansas in the Arkansas outdoors is something that I'm confident as we build those goals you'll all be proud. Just a quick follow up I understand what you just said but for ninety nine percent of people that read that plan the words diversity equity and inclusion means something completely different than what you just said so I guess what I'm saying poor choice of words for a great program and something that you need including that plan find some way to re word that and get that out of there and That'll help with the budget. Thank you for the better. Thank you and center pain you're recognized for a question thank you madam chair so how many empty slots do you have right now. I'm saying six hundred and thirty six employees. We have about six forty positions that are vacant right now Sir and based on how long to get that answer I I don't assume you can give me an answer on how long they've been you know what's average vacancy there. We have foreseen that have been vacant for more than two years. and underneath that it's a pretty mixed bag of maximal utilization of the positions that that we have is at the front of our minds that's why there's no new position request within here and are reclassification is really designed to make sure that the vacant positions that we have also what area what what type of job description is your greatest challenge to try to hire and and fill. The game wardens and biologists. I have to admit that over the years I've heard several people back home. The. I would love to get a job Arkansas game and fish and and I were unable to find any empty slots or find your hiring her or have any success in in getting hired on so it is new to me that that all the sudden we're not competitive and we're having a hard time hiring people of how long have you been the director again fish for roughly eighteen months okay and So do you have job offers yes Sir going somewhere else at a higher rate of pay I mean we're talking about competitiveness and and your line item here is going up eighty one percent I'm just wondering if that. Still can you give us a real life example of of why that's necessary. Senator we've we've premises that will provide a comparison for what other directors make but I have not received any got a job offer since I've been in this one if that's what you're asking. Well I'm I'm just going to you for example because you hear first hand and able to testify if I was talking to my employees This Is type questions I'd be asking them you know of. How long did you work for game and fish before you became director. I do not. Okay where do you work before you begin direct I was the chief of staff for the Arkansas department of Veterans Affairs okay thank you and I appreciate your indulgence in those questions thank you Sir. Thank you senator Caldwell you're recognized for a question thank you at your funeral. I would like it the agency response but I have a motion to amend. The Amendment on each question I would like to go back to items one two and three. On their so our recommendation. Line one I would like to replace that with the two hundred one thousand seven hundred dollars which is equivalent to it's C. O. five. Of the twenty twenty one pay plan. This is a maximum for a S. the state employee of five. On the. Item two I would like to replace that with one hundred eighty one thousand five hundred dollars. Which is the equivalent of the maximum of S. C. O. four. And on item three I would like to replace that with one hundred sixty seven thousand dollars which is the maximum payment for an S. C. O. three. Thank. That's a proper motion if there is a second and I have discussion. Manager okay sorry at will at the beginning the meeting we said we're just going to hear items and B. three E. B. three and not take any action today we're just hearing all of it and coming back later could could I hear the agency's response but Mr Martin your response from individual we will take action today and that's fun to hear their response. Seven so would you like to pull down your motion so that it's proper for you to make on the motion thank you yes you may ask every fight with Martin welcome good to see you again would you respond to that please I I think you know we're we're hearing loud and clear the interest in being able to to see the holistic view of everything we've done we stand pretty strong well what we for any presented and given us a great deal of thought in terms of your motion I think that is acceptable position for us to be able to align with again I'm eager to get a chance to see again going back to the Austin Director reference the strategic plan that we laid out priority one is all about staff excellence and it goes from the top to the bottom of this organization to make sure we create a good equitable compensation pathways for people specific to the top three items that you suggested I believe myself in the commissioners behind me would accept that thank you thank you for coming thank mentor right thank you and Senator Hammer you're recognized. I'm so. No okay you're recognized for a question sorry there. For me manager okay yes thank you I just need a quick understand on the handout that you've given me I'm looking of things on page. The page two and I'm not take the item of the game fish game warden. Line. and is. The proposed is eighty five seven eighteen but the current is eighty five seven eighteen should read zero change. And the average market city five percent is fifty eight seven oh eight does could you just explain to me how that would impact what you're proposing is going to impact the game warden on those numbers your template of. Service discussion we have to go back to the fiscal session last year if you'll remember during that time Arkansas state police was was going through their classic cop adjustment with some corresponding increases of Arkansas state police is one of our most important partners and friends but they're also people that we compete with with every single year for cadets of so we wanted to do the best that we could to keep the pace with Arkansas state police and the way that we did that was we came back in the fiscal session and we ask for special language to increase their caps by fifteen percent that of then in our budget hearing that we had back in October we may that permanent rather than rather than doing it through a special language we we did it through underlying of adjustments to the caps so do you to kinda and with your also question game wardens will get pay increases just like everybody else relative to the market and they've also already got a fifteen percent pay increases last fiscal year so what's your current game or get paid now. our entry gate wouldn't positions start at roughly forty nine thousand dollars so you would be raising them from forty nine thousand two fifty eight thousand. One second Sir. the kind of the target market that we would be competing for would be fifty three thousand. Okay and I guess that's part what and maybe I'm just slow with this but I say these numbers in this is what's proposed but it doesn't tell me where we are right now and where we would actually end up for my mission it. We'll we look forward to provide an answer. Okay because I think that would play an important part of this because it goes back to the question you're not adding any more positions you're not asking for any more money. But yet people are going to end up potentially getting raises based on what you've come back and ask us for such a to me I think those are the two lines added would be helpful for my support if you would and then the last thing I know your separate constitutional office and if I understood your right awhile ago you said the governor supports this but also the governor is put a freeze hiring freeze unless I missed something so are you going to keep in line with what she's asked the DHS and the other agencies or or are you away for that yet listed or what your what your what do you anticipate yeah will of all like I've I've responded to your last question senator we're committed within slow because we understand of the importance of managing the resources well but also giving people reasonable expectations for where they go gone in and the future of the functionally of for the past eighteen months and even before that there's only two people in the agency that can. Approved hiring any position whether it's a new position or a vacancy one of those is me and one of those is our chief of staff Chris racy of and we're going to continue that practice there is no dash there's no rush to go out and hire a ton of people we want to control the cost because that's the right thing to do. Okay I appreciate if you give me that other information and I appreciate your answers today thank Mister man just wanna I'm sorry no that's fine thank you at representive Leding you're recognized for a question. I will follow up on the person bill. You said you had forty vacant positions sixteen of those have been taken over two years what what of those positions. Yes I don't wanna know which one of them but one of the covered. That you couldn't fill. They're mostly of Arlo is created positions admin tasks so admin positions on the technical side and that also tech on the fishery size of our hatchery workers of the and then we also have a number of those and we and we can provide an exact breakdown but a lot of them are game board positions to. What about one of the twenty four that are covered by a council of the. The twenty four. I'm not sure representative I believe that we can provide it with this with the his or promotion and also I will follow up on representative bodies I'm I'm I'm having a difficult time seeing what inclusion equity and diversity has to do with. That sounds like woke to may. I'm just being honest with you I don't understand that being involved in going Dunkerton Commission all that I know you want to include a lot of people but. Fosun Arkansas know about wildlife. So thank you. Thank you representative Springer you're recognized for a question. Thank you madam chair I just wanted to make a comment and I guess I'm not sure I understand the comments of the been made either by of D. III of I do appreciate the comments that you didn't make a director Austin because I'm very familiar with diversity equity and inclusion I think it's important and all of our of business that's done here in the state of Arkansas so I just wanted to make those comments to say that I do understand I do appreciate those comments thank you very much. Thank you and I mean I have some concern when when you talk about the future and managing land that and you guys means approximately three point one million acres three point eight MM three point eight thank you and and as I'm understanding and they can't camp Robinson area around may flowers around twenty seven hundred acres and I as I understand correct me if I'm wrong you guys are looking at phasing that out of a special use area and turning it into a wildlife management area so what my concern is if you and are worried about the future and managing the acres that you currently manage and that special use area is being managed by others at no cost to game and fish is my understanding like why would you try to in that as a specialist area we only have two of those in the entire state as opposed to a hundred wildlife management areas and take over more acreage when you can't adequately manage the acreage that we have now can you help me understand that. Yes ma'am so the cameras and special use area of is an area that that we have offered to a very specific groups of users I a bird bird dog into is the is the like to run field trials and managing that large of an area of for a specific user group of is in pretty strong tension with the diversity of interests that we have in the central Arkansas area people want to get out there and Turkey hot people that want to get out there and you're not people that want to get out there and hike the track the track team for the university of central Arkansas like likes to run on some of the trails we have out there so we had we had to pick between focusing on the habitat and managing it for actual habitat or managing it for one group of and you know we've we've had a great relationship with the field for all community for decades we didn't tell them that they weren't welcome we told them we were gonna manager for habitat that we're gonna let other people use it and that to the extent they could still do feel feel feel trials in a way that coincided with what with how we wanted to manage habitat there are more than welcome so there's always a balance when lots of people love the same thing And we think we've achieve that at camp Robinson. And I understand what you're saying I think they're maybe being incredible on year after year fence taken down stuff not like and and so maybe it's more appropriate I have this conversation offline because I because I would like to have it does concern me I mean since we only have two special use areas where people who are interested in that can practice there and it brings in people from all over the country it's certainly a source of revenue for you know for our state and bring people in. As opposed to all the average we do have our people can run trails and Turkey and all that kind of stuff so so I do have a lot of concern with that I will take that conversation with you offline as simply because we have like twenty other things on the agenda and so and thank you I appreciate your time I don't see questions from any other members and Sam Commission excite and thank all of you thank you. All right we will go back up to item. D. auditor of state. Thank you if you have a mental state and your name and who you're with for the record. Dennis Milligan Arkansas order of St. Jason Brady deputy auditor. Can you add just give us a summary of your proposal thank you. Thank you madam chair members of the personnel committee for so let me say it's a privilege to be before you this morning to explain my request for our office budget my letter asking to amend my office appropriation has five parts to it I'll give you a brief overview and then certainly take any questions you might have item number one the first part of my request focuses on the appropriations line within the auditor's office I'm not asking for any new positions I am changing titles to match the organizational structure and workflow of my office I am seeking a salary increase in three positions total the attorney and the internal auditor I'm also looking to change of position and increase the salaries so that I can attempt to hire an I. T. person this is very bottle of very bottom the from my office all three positions require someone who's highly trained in their field. Next I'm asking your approval for an increase in my operations line about two hundred and sixty three thousand dollars in order to implement cyber security measures that are greatly needed and let me say I appreciate the efforts are representative makes an Senator English regarding their cybersecurity legislation. In my first sixty days in office I initiated to independent risk assessments and have received several security recommendations please understand that the information my office holes must be a hundred percent secure especially with the information it contains about elected officials and possibly members of their family the funds seek will go towards protecting the sensitive data that my office houses on the six hundred sixty people for whom we write payroll checks and process health health benefits. Third I'm asking for permission for a one time additional sixty five thousand dollars on top of the twenty five thousand dollars to my capital LA item to purchase a check printing machine we have one check printer and that's seven years old and it prints over a million checks per year in my two short months in office it's broken down twice my plan is to purchase a new printer and keep the current one it's a back up in the times of heavy volume such as tax season. The fourth item is simple realignment of titles in the unclaimed property portion of my budget no new positions are salary increases here. And finally I'm asking the General Assembly to raise the cap on the payment of unclaimed property claims from twenty five million to twenty nine million in expectation of increased demand from citizens seeking to reclaim their property with the new administration comes a review and we're finding new ways to connect citizens to their property and additionally persistent inflation and a looming recession how people looking for money and offices certainly not an exception. Madam chair this concludes my overview of my letter request you and certainly be happy to answer any questions. Thank you are there any questions from the committee. Which has dwindled quite a bit at centre Payton you're recognized for a question I just had to ask on that's one heck of a printer. Of its smoking are you senator if you want to come in there I went in there the other day and it was I think we're about to set the smoke alarm off that thing smoking so I mean just so there's like one company that builds the printer I mean I can't believe that there would be more competitive prices are I know the one that my place of prints everything is to learn fifty Bucks so. Go ahead senator if I may so yes this is a very specialized return courses you can imagine our checks are very specialized for security reasons and no there is pretty much a monopoly in the in the sort of printer things printer business and this isn't the kind of printers you can imagine it just sits on your household computer desk or an office it it's probably I'm not joking it's the link to this table well and I was joking when I compared it to what I used but I I was wondering if it was a monopoly evidently and just no second source to shop around. We can certainly try the industry or the business we uses Arkansas based so but we S. we could we could try to go out there and see if there's cheaper but I can tell you from talking with the folks there and and folks in the industry in the office in the past the answer is no that's pretty much going to be your range if not more expensive Sir all right thank you thank you madam chair thank you representative gene you're recognized for a question thank you madam chair of. Mr Autechre the It looks like your total of the maximum employees is twenty and then ten and unclaimed property thirty total how many do you have working today I mean is do you have any fill positions of representative we have nineteen. And nine and and claim so we have one one unfilled position in each category yes Sir okay of DO you anticipating hiring those two additional employees yes we do okay thank you yes Sir will. Representative was so recognized thank you manager so your your total increased is four hundred twenty five thousand dollars is that correct when you add up all the pluses and minuses this represents Warren twenty five thousand yes are thank you yes Sir. All right any other questions thank you. That will probably stop after this because committee started ten so we'll take this and. This last item in. To be determined I'll let you know after as Senator Hester presents on when we'll come back. She. Okay item S. and the and Senator Hester you are recognized to present. I lost. I have some yes with the members but this is a an issue that we deal with every year and and as or ever every other year as we know that our population is growing and unfortunately crime is growing all across the country and how important are prosecutors are for for public safety and we just simply have a need for more prosecutors as part of our public safety package in my opinion and so I'm gonna ask Barker man and Prosecutor Matt Durrett to take it from here. Okay that on okay Bob mean prosecutor coordinator mattered prosecutor any for the fourth judicial district washed in mass and counties and also president Arkansas prosecutors Association and if it's okay Ballinger macular brief description of what we're trying to do here but just a little bit history case or some new members on the on the committee on the date the prosecutors became state employees in nineteen ninety nine with at ten forty four in the procedure that we put in place at that time the original Legislative intent had the prosecutors association our commission working with the legislature to make sure there was an equitable distribution of deputies throughout the state so the process that we put in place to do that was to bring you all one bill rather than have all twenty eight judicial districts need prosecutor bring bills so the procedures to bring one bill and that at this session is Senate bill seventeen and in this particular bill that the process we normally do again is of all the prosecuting attorneys will submit a request to our board and they will make presentations submit documentation whatever they need to do to justify their positions and then our board makes that decision on whether to approve that or not and then ranked those positions and then we bring that to you all in the form of an amendment to whatever the deputy prosecutor salary bill is on this particular bill is adding fifteen positions there are thirteen of those there full time into a part time that affects twelve judicial districts twelve different judicial districts the second thing the bill does it upgrades forty two of our positions of those are individuals that about half of those are already at the maximum that they can make by grade and those are spread across all the greats that not all the top grade or anything there Sommer GS eleven GS twelve GS thirteen and then I think that's where it stops and those those forty two upgrades that affects twenty different judicial districts so again this process works statewide we bring it to you in the form of one particular bill and that's what we're doing this time it would be happy to answer questions about may want to kind of explain how are. Or does that if if that's necessary but that's it in a nutshell obviously will be happy to answer any questions. Could you describe under twelve different districts can you describe the the the district that's most in need right now like but if you if you need I'm not asking to say all all fifteen but like where particular that area right in here Pulaski County there's there's a big need I believe I was told the other day they they had maybe fourteen thousand pending felony cases so they they have made an increase here there's there's a need in the fourth judicial district there's any need in the nineteenth west usual district it's really spread it it's almost like the district that I'm talking about or getting one each so we we spread it out quite a bit what what does a fourth and nineteenth me I'm sorry the washing County the nineteenth west has been council and the fourth is mine which is watching amassed counties in plastic County yeah yes it is it spread it spread out looks to the rest of the districts there in make a part of that twelve it's one position per per those districts so it is it is spread out I mean I and I can say also this this procedure has worked on every single judicial district in the last twenty four years has benefited in one way or another from this procedure obviously not every district in something each year but I think you get all contact your prosecutors have I could prosecute contact you and let them know that the procedure we put in place does work in everybody benefits and there has been an equitable distribution since this was taken on in nineteen ninety nine. Members I'll tell you it is a significant financial increase of about two point eight million dollars annually if if we if we agreed all these terms I think a public safety is is clearly worth it we're about to spend a whole bunch of money on public safety and again throughout the entire state state benefits from this but I am going to ask that we we not take a vote on this as well today simply because of a budgetary concerns I know that each member here would want to fund all these positions but I would ask would not take a vote on it today and we will come back and we have a little bit better understanding of the of the budget but certainly want to answer any members questions. Yes we do have a few members of questions that I've got representative gene first year recognized thank you madam chair I'm just looking at your two and and I kind of wonder whether lay about the the senior deputy prosecutor number two is adding six and then the Attorney one eighty nine where the. Roughly are those Central Arkansas northwest Arkansas. It is is basically all spread out again I believe that the the first one that you mentioned moving the GS fourteen to fifteen I believe there for those in in Pulaski County for the six are here Pulaski County okay the rest like I said it affects almost every judicial district I I mean I could I could probably the lands and come up the break ins of the position no no they're not new positions those those upgrades are all to existing positions okay but. But the maximum number of always we're increasing by fifteen yes Sir that's correct okay and and date the grades for the ones that were requesting for the fifteen or GS eleven GS twelves these these numbers reflect the upgrades that mystery man mentioned earlier okay of. But but mainly Central Arkansas. Northwest Arkansas. Is where these are going well again the new positions the new positions the the breakdown that and I can give this to you I mean again to break down as I mentioned there's one position in the fifty just or district which is Russellville there are there's one the fourteenth judicial district which is the Harrison Mountain Home area of eighteen east is getting one that's hot springs Garland County of for just a district map mentioned in nineteen west has been County they obviously are getting some of one for the twenty first distal District which Crawford County one eight south which is Miller County one in the second judicial district which is Craighead county district one in twenty second county which is selling County and I think and into part time one in Luna county and then one in pine bluff or Jefferson County so it's as you see it spread out okay much appreciated thank you no problem Jean I I I try to convince him to move one from a magnolia Northwest Arkansas they were not agreeable to it I thought it was physically responsible thing to do I would expect anything that senator. All right as senator Hammer you're recognized I'll be quick because for children you know I do I'm just yours on the other side of the issue public defenders what about any any comment on them is or they'll come to the table for the self service. The public defenders have also made a request that's very similar to this one another reason I'm holding up on this will probably have that discussion at the same time of the day okay that might be good at it it has been presented it's just not been sent to this committee at okay good thank you. All right thank you there are no other questions thank you for your presentation and lunch and we will continue the conversation okay we have several other items so what we're gonna do is and meet fifteen minutes upon adjournment of both chambers this afternoon in here in big mac in room B.. They will be in room B. fifteen minutes upon adjournment of both chambers so whichever chamber gets out last and we fifteen minutes on a German of that one so thank you all for your patience today and for your attention meeting is adjourned I'm sorry I didn't galley at Senator Hammer. I may be mistaken I don't know that it matters manager but I think there's a joint committee of education. In here that's going to be exact in conflict with this madam chair and I are on Education Committee I just want to point that you forgot about it. Okay let's say that we will meet in here or because. Ation so what if we just do. Ten minutes upon adjournment what's left on the agenda is not controversial it's just I mean we should move there pretty quickly so ten minutes upon adjournment of both chambers. Roommate thank you meetings adjourned thank.