City, County & Local Affairs Committee- House

Sheet on the banister to my left over here and I've noticed there's several of you have done that and we will get started this morning without objection I'm on here a House bill fifteen fifteen by representative Maddox. Ya can't hear me. How bout now can you hear me now all right all right you may start over. All right if you would like to sign up there's a sign up sheet on the banister over here please sign up and we will try to hear everyone here today I see a quorum here we'll get started we're going to but if nobody objects we're going here representative Max's house bill fifteen fifteen if you would come to the table again five yourself for the record and you may proceed. Thank you Mr chair committee Mister chair could ask to guest to come join me at the table. Yes please do. Alasan to briefly introduce themselves not get started. Running on John Wilkerson accounts of the Arkansas Municipal League. Good morning Mister chair members Jack Reacher Arkansas municipally. But. Thank you Mr chair and I'll try to be as brief as I possibly Clint can I do want to give just a little background of this a lot of you guys may remember last session we passed ACT six oh five what this did as is provided more supervision of retail water providers so in the interim time I had numerous constituents contact me with concerns they had about ACT six oh five and some of the constraints it was putting on them so I came back and filed a bill to completely to completely repeal ACT six oh five so what that turned out to do is start a conversation and the more that I researched in the more that I learned I learned that there was a lot of good things in ACT six oh five so then what we did this all of the stakeholders came together and for weeks we worked on a compromise so those include the department of ag a in RC municipally and rule water is also involved in all this and there's no opposition to it I do want to say that the vast majority the complaints that I heard from my constituents was from rural water providers and those folks who served on the boards and again everyone is is in agreement this time so what about one of the modifications that I did make that I'm very proud of there really got my attention on this matter under Act six so five a rate study has to be done every five years and under that rate study if there is an increase in the rates that is recommended it had to be implemented within either one or two years so there's a municipality in my district that was going to have a that is having substantial upgrades and that cost to the consumer was gonna be a massive cost over two years so one modification that this bill does is it allows that rate increase to be implemented over a five year span as long as it's consistent with the rate study. So like the the provider in my district or the consumer to my district instead of the bill going up. Fifty percent one year than fifty of fifty percent the next year that a bill to be spread out over five years which it'll still be painful but it won't be as bad for consumers so very proud of that everyone's in agreement to that and that that again is the main the main thing that I was focused on then when we got all the other stakeholders involved there are some other amendments and changes that were done that made it better but I'll be glad to take any questions or potentially allow the witnesses to to speak of that if the committee like to hear that. Okay committee is very questions. Seeing none is there anybody here would like to speak for the bill. Against the bill. Seeing none of would you like to close for your bill. Yes thank you Mr chair for accommodating us first of all this morning and Committee the and I'm I think this is a good bills could compromise bill and I appreciate a good vote. And I'm closed what is wishes I have a motion to do pass any discussion on the motion. Staying none all in favor say aye. Those opposed say nay. Right regulations you have passed your bill thank you Mr chair thank you Committee. Okay UP next is our special orders Senate bill one ninety seven. It is the sponsor in the room. Okay. Well I'll tell you what we'll do we're going to recess here for just a minute and see we by the sponsor. Thank you Mr chairman committee colleagues I am honored to present S. B. one ninety seven today thank you for it in advance for your time and attention and collegial debate on this really important issue. S. B. one ninety seven pertains to the property rights for all Arkansans And all landowners. The beginning of a portion of the bill the non coated fight section serves as a reminder to us as lawmakers and constituents who read this bill that property rights are fundamental to all our Kansans and are clearly and unabashedly enumerated in our state constitution specifically I would like to reference article to subsection twenty two which states the property the right of property is before and higher than any other constitutional section and private property shall not be taken appropriated or damaged for pair perfect for public use without just compensation. As we begin this bill presentation I want to combat one of the most prevailing persistent criticism criticisms that is a bill sponsor I've encountered while running this bill. That the that argument is that this bill goes against the principle of local control. I argue that when local control is is attempting to subdue a constitutional right we have a duty to debate this control and determine if this is the will of our state. Per our constitution the General Assembly provides for General laws for the organization of cities in incorporated towns. These entities granted to operate via state oversight should not require its citizens within its borders to abandon their constitutional right to private property. Local control what's the which leads over regulation and stripping away of such constitutional rights is not in chevron and and never should a laurel the bill or that we merely rely on. The General Assembly grants cities and towns the authority of regulatory power to ensure a multitude of services and protections to its citizens. The ordinances which carry these regulations are allowed to be enforced via police powers or zoning authority to ensure a balance to the community. Cities have long had to ensure property private property owners act reasonably and responsibly with respect to their surrounding neighbors this has been accomplished by zoning properties to be conducive to its area in the best manner residential commercial and industrial zoning are to name a few of these broader categories which are used to define use again zoning is defining the use not the owner operator operator or occupant the facade paint color or novelty mailbox preference it inherently pertains to land use not who owns it or occupies it the manner in which cities can affect the owner or occupant or through its police powers. These powers ensure nuances and public safety concerns can be addressed. Items such as traffic control and parking noise issues and quiet hours animal control your complaints advertising in any and all public nuisance issues the city wants to address can be current curtailed under its police powers all cities need to do is exercise them these police powers are available to protect all owners and renters as one of the three main reasons which you'll hear for those for those who oppose short term rentals any nuisance in a short term rental can generate they short terminal can generate can be the same issue any long term rental or owner occupied dwelling can generate and should be dealt with via the police powers or municipal or local municipalities. Many of our cities have chosen to adjust the popularity of short term leasing by outright bans or limiting them through zoning regulations even though their use as a residence or where people dwell in sleep has not changed. So the question must be asked has the property use change for residential to a business that sorry from residential to a business or commode commercial use. It is if that is the case then every long term rental should now be classified as a business and zoned accordingly. I argue the use has not changed regardless of duration the property still functions as a residential purpose and in fact the question of duration of stay has been in use has been decided by Arkansas Supreme Court in case number CV dash sixteen dash one one zero four one and two and two thousand eighteen. In the decision overturning a lower court justice Josephine Hart ruled that renting a property report regardless of duration did not change the essential character of a resident's she further address the commercial purpose from blacks common law dictionary as a result or accruing from commerce or exchange except truck where as unless a property let's say properties bill of insurance or Associated competences restricts or expressly prohibits the court have determined that short term rentals did not offend restrictions that limited the use of property as long as it was used for residential purposes. Another argument raised in concern the lack of the potential lack of long term owner occupied housing within a community That that happens in the debate of this bill while cities are faced with addressing the needs of affordable housing I have yet to hear from any citizens who've complained when the value of their property increases. The issue of affordable or available housing should not be at the peril of the rights of existing property owners instead city should being should encourage development by reducing over reaching in person right regulations and I also want to take a moment to highlight the fact and one very important element of this bill is that the protections that have been written into this bill for short term residences are not extended to multi family homes multi family homes our results or a a possible solution for our communities to solve the affordable housing crisis is that we're experiencing whether that be in Northwest Arkansas central Arkansas or southern. To build on that point in fact one city recently produced a report addressing these concerns and it was determined short term rentals were not a factor when considering of the affordable or available housing but did recommend trying to reduce existing permitting timelines currently at three and a half years by twelve months. Again I want to reiterate that a city within art within our state found that reducing their permitting process from three and a half years to twelve months is a key to increasing affordable housing. Cities can and should address these over burning regulations on New property instead of focusing on limiting the rights of current owners to solve this problem. the last item needing addressed is the taxation of this form of residential usage currently Arkansas law requires anyone who leases a transient guest as a subject to pay it is subject to pay all gross receipts tax levied including compensating use tax and tourism tax. Transient guests are defined by this code as those residing in less than a month to month tenancy in a furnished rental home condo town host town home or any other provider. This would also apply to a city ordinance such as an advertising and promotion tax if written to do so. The taxpayer's the taxpayer does not have to have a license or permit as required as a requirement to pay these taxes. The taxpayer owner must remit all with muscle must remit all that is due regardless if they go through a market place or if it's a word of mouth short term rental or if it's for one night or three hundred sixty five nights the ease of a market place provider is that they can perform this function and will have the relationship with the department of finance and administration and can enter into local municipal agreements to collect local taxes. This bill does not impact existing or future competences through the use or through restrictions within PO As HOAs bill of assurances or community covenants is this bill bill allows for municipalities to track short term rentals to ensure owners or their representatives can be contacted for new information or for violation of city ordinances. This bill allows for current taxes to be collected. In summary our cities and towns have long allowed for long and short term residential properties to exist. AS residentially zoned. The right to sell or rent one's property has long been recognized by our courts and is considered incidental to ownership. This bill ensures that rights will remain equal among the residential markets. The quiet enjoyment of all property can and should be addressed using police powers not zoning authority. The statement and the statement will likely be raising this debate you would approach this differently if you next live next to one of these properties my answer to that is I do and I have and I have was I have dealt with those issues through contacting my local authorities through nonemergency needs to make what make my localities aware of the fact that there is a potential noise violation or there are too many individuals in a home but. That understanding does not does not give me the right to say that my constitutional rights for property or more important or larger than that of my neighbors. With that I'm happy to take any questions and and Mister chairman I do want to mention that we have an amendment That would like to offer I think we may have taken that cart before the horse but. Okay a representative will agree you're recognized. Yes thank you chairman representative McKenzie you had stated that C. have zoning gin and you respect as owning in zoning in cities that have different residential dwellings are one or two or three you have to do with the density of the residential in their. Also you talked about this only as far as commercial is concerned when you have a community from heartbreak not price we've had as many as thirty one St they become short term rentals that drastically changes the characteristics of the city the operation of neighborhood what's going on so my question to you you know of anywhere in the code did it defines. The difference between commercial and residential not strictly by the structure but by the use. To you know I'm not aware of the difference in the code. You. Okay representative Whitaker you're recognized thank you Mr chair representative of. You mentioned the idea that so long as the majors residential then it's not if they can't be regulated as commercial enterprises in under the zoning up. Following that line of logic a lot of our cities mine included required of people to come before the Planning Commission to receive a conditional use permit for boarding houses and that's been on the books since zoning was invented because of the known dangers and troubles and secondary negative effects of boarding houses under this legislation sensors rich by you know inherently transient populations would boarding houses now be able to open up anywhere they want to without a conditional use permit no I believe I believe boarding houses do have specific language within our code as to how they're regulated and how then you have municipalities are able to zone them I don't I don't have that as a part of a creative protection within the bill defines it define short term rentals at a single family dwellings condominiums groups of condominiums it again it does not extend to multi family and I again that's I'm not running a bill relevant to boarding houses but I do believe that there are definitions that that sets what a boarding houses and how can be regulated at the municipal level follow up yeah we do concede that someone could read it that way. That someone could read the bill that that the that the that a citizen could read your your the results of your bill and say great we're gonna open a boarding house. No I don't see the point I I do believe that a boarding house has more of a commercial purpose it needs to be marketed need to be advertised as a boarding house Again the bill is very specific to language of what it allows within a single family within a single family home thanks not experience and. Representative Hudson you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair so It was good that I was I'm a speed reader because I just read the cases cited to which is angel B. Bryant one of the things that they site to in that case is a twenty twelve Alabama decision in which they spoke specifically to the character of a neighborhood being relevant as to whether or not one of these rentals is allowable under the terms of the state constitution in part because of the balance of the right of the non rental property owners the neighbors versus the rights of the property owner who seeks to rent their home is a short term rental so in the case of what representative McGrew mentioned in what we see in a lot of these resort towns you see multiple rentals on a single street which I would argue likely does change the character of the neighborhood when you have a lot of transient people coming in having parties going to that lake what have you and so what do you make of the fact that this decision that you're relying upon says that once you change the character of the neighborhood then you have succeeded in overcoming the property interest of the renting property owners. The jurisprudence using this case is to make sure that we we understand and the justice that code of fi or did did continue the understanding that the essential nature of a dwelling does not change regardless of the duration of someone's head on a pillow so I understand the question it's not real I mean it it is relevant to the larger debate but what I'm using the case to to help us to find is the essential nature of a dwelling. Follow up. Yes okay in the in state we can. And discussing our disagreement and and the interpretation of this I'm sure but The justices specifically talked about the character of the neighborhood not just characters dwelling in the case of angels property that addresses specifically pointed out that the owners still resided in it from time to time and many of the rentals that you are seeking to encompass with your bill are never occupied by the owners so do you think that that has some effect on the character of the residence. The character of the residence we know is what you said yes still single family dwelling I mean. the answer questions no not necessarily because it might to define is a municipality to define if I if it's my residence if I spend one day or nine months and as a part of the process of researching this bill we try to find some homogeneity across our municipalities it is a lawyer you probably understand that's a test that often people use to compare not only different codes ordinances or laws and we couldn't find necessarily to municipalities that had a singular definition for what a owner occupied residents was but again going back to the constitutional argument as well as what's been up held in the Arkansas Supreme Court essential nature of a dwelling is is it is a residence as long as or for the however long someone's duration is their head is on that hello so one last follow up Mr. Yes go ahead. Okay but what do you make of it in the in the case of of your interpretation of what a resident says of the constitutional balancing test that must always occur when you are balancing the constitutional rights of one citizen versus another and in the case of the landowners who are not renting because they do have a right to quiet enjoyment of their property that is that is it the long established because my property classes still give me nightmares about it but they are entitled to the quiet enjoyment of the residence verses the commercial right for someone to rent out a property at which someone. is correct caters on weekends which substantially interfere with those rights. So you're I want to make sure we're not. The right asking you how do you how do you balance that you have a balance between and and we've heard this this point quite a bit is more my property rights are being violated technically it's your right to privacy unless someone does violate your property rights by coming on unwanted Lee onto your property or damaging your property or asking you on your property specifically on your property that is a in based on kind of a hypothetical that's been batted around that's a eight a desire to maintain your right to privacy not to right to property and I would I would argue that in anyone individual's right to privacy does not negate or so do another person's right to property. Okay I I tell you what for today what a we're going to do no objection roads suspend the rules as follows asking for a follow. All right representative of Richardson you're up. Thank you Mr so representative McKenzie is based on your testimony and and presenting the bill I take it your position that. A a residence that's zoned R. one that's a single family residence the individual property owners might choose to lease that property to a nother single family situation and that that resident new resident of that property would take whatever time that they want if they choose to have a cater with fifteen different families that would be a situation where the current zoning laws enforced by the current policing force would be applicable and not something that subject to this particular legislation correct yeah and that's that's somewhat the crux of the bill is that especially in some of the towns municipalities that have reached out OR had individuals that represent those towns municipalities throughout this process that well how we ever going to police the noise or the attendance or curbside trash or on street parking I would say that if you're cities towns misplaced don't currently have those ordinances you need to be asking your mayor city councilmen aldermen just a piece to create them and enforce them because that is the easy investor tyrant to changing behaviour is enforcing existing laws or rules in this case so that anything that can be deemed a nuisance can be taken care of and escalated if there's repeat offenses right okay thank you so much. Representative right you're recognized yes Sir thank you Mr chairman. Well I can say a problem that can occur black let's just say that you had. In nineteen eighty. You have houses that were built in a certain subdivision. So basically were around seventeen to eighteen hundred square foot. And that's meant for a family. Okay but now. The House does they didn't have arises in all those situations the street is where they park their automobiles. What do you do if you let for families coming in on a house it's got a seventeen hundred square feet you got neighbors that's around that house order where are these people supposed to park their cars that that's a great question representative right and I don't have an answer to specific homes and I live in a neighborhood that that does have a short set back and I get it was specially when neighbors or potentially there's or terminal that has folks over. It in to be very honest it's it's not going to be answered in this bill it is required by that property owner to establish where those residents are those visitors for those guests or to or to park their cars if the ordinance is to not park more than one car on the street per residence into park one car more than one car on the street I understand and it's it's not an easy answer but I also can't still can't answer the hypothetical for all Residences that have either short or long driveways but not there especially if you want happy neighbors yes Sir but my case is. What if they're not. Just people vesting what is the favor those living there I know you saying in terms of a long term renter or a homeowner yeah yeah foreman H. away one of the gold particles or. Yeah I I don't have an answer for that their driveway down the street at the Kroger. The representative liquor you're recognized thank you chairman You can see there's a couple things revision begins is you said there's amendment we have no noticed an amendment we don't have an amendment so we're looking at this bill as it's currently written without the amendment correct want to point that out also I would love to see I think one of the biggest things is is a commercial or is it residential and I would love to send the definition in the bill to determine what that is to me and I think too many people and I think that may be blurred this income people who say well if it's it's a houses residential but there's many houses that are being used for business purposes throughout the community and to me if you have you know if you're operating it like a motel room in his in and out and you're having different people that you know every night it's not a typical residence I would have left the scene is bill the definition of what residential areas and I'm curious to. Maybe some can bring forth if that is defined in some way because that's the big thing to me is there there is a. A big difference in that quiet enjoyment that we talked about when you're living in a motel room you don't necessarily have that and when you're living next door to someone that moves in and out every night it's it at absolutely different to me than having a long term renter or someone that using the the the House as a true respect so would love to see a definition in that yes Sir so just just to you want to definition of commercial versus residential relative to short term rentals as opposed to I mean you're not saying commercial use in in a home for the purposes of a at C. knitting shop correct you're you're talking about specific to short term rentals would not necessarily specific to short term rentals when you look at the city governing codes they defined for commercial Elliots you know when it's it's the use of the of the facility you know it's it's it's you know. What do you know and there's different types of uses you know different types of commercial uses so it you know how many people may come in and out what what's going to happen at that you know so a clear definition of what residential is compared to commercial you can define it as determined for it for short term rentals but but there's no definition so that's one of the big things I think that we have with the people here and others is somewhat more say well it's it's a business and somewhat I know it's not a residential so there's no definition and I know of that forms that and that's what I'd like to have seen you could have helped clarify some things in this bill yes Sir and and just so going back to the argument of of local control I I a this bill is to help redefine residential property to include short term rentals so as is relevant to your question about the definition short term rentals single family dwellings condominiums groups of condominiums are to be now included in the definition short term rental within our code to Ark to make the argument for local control it does not benefit our municipalities or legislature for me to for us this bill sponsors to go in and say we'll commercial use not just for the purposes of short term rentals per your question per your comment is acts we should allow municipalities to define what commercial is within our zoning tears. With the exception as this bill is written for the definition of short term rentals I I want to be very clear that this helps redefine short term rentals as residential property we have answered that that point of your prompt about to include this and also to exclude multi family but to go in and say broadly not just for let's use the term hospitality Commercial is X. Y. and said that would again be diminishing the ability for a municipality to create a finish that makes sense for their community okay since you're saying it could did mean up a should be episode municipalities change in their code that a short term rental is a commercial use then they could regulate that zoning and define is commercial so because this would be affecting state code which does supersede municipal. Ordinances so we are just going in and redefining residents for short term rentals as residential property but to answer questions about the definition of commercial use. Not just for hospitality OR for transient guests that would be limiting to our local are you Mr Valdez because that is broader than the definition of of what I'm what we're trying to solve. Now from I read right we're taking this bill as it's written now there is no amendments correct. I I do intend to amend I don't know how we want to resolve that within the special order Okay but we are not discussing any amendments we do not have a force correct. Correct yeah I don't yes but it would have questions are. the representative Burch you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman so going back to the issue of parking there's nothing in the bill right now that would prohibit a city from it introducing a very strict ordinance on parking right they would have absolute control over how they do that is that correct yeah okay and then I appreciated your efforts to talk to a lot of the stakeholders and drafting your most recent amendment that I think I saw on the thirteenth has that been filed yet. That said no there was an I. eight conferred with the chairman we because the bill drafting we missed the deadline to a engrossed on my members on the intent was to to run the amendment here obviously I raced in a couple minutes late because of a technology or but I do wish to present the amendment in committee even though we're already on questions about it nothing is changed from the amendments that we discussed out of committee. Mr is it possible to introduce the amendment now. Is it possible. My staff has left here okay sorry. He said he will be back shortly we if we normally we have an amendment it needs to be introduced at the beginning and answer in the end and then we act on that do you have that amendment with you I have a digital copy I can find printed copies and bring them in okay all right all right list the list recess here just a second. For bill sixteen house bill sixteen sixteen today on the list here we will not be hearing that bill today. Okay. All right sixteen sixteen will not be heard today house bill sixteen sixteen someone has signed up I'd hate for them to wait dear that bill is sent to be heard today. The amendments on the way it should be here shortly. We'll call this meeting back to order. Representative McKenzie would you like to present your amendment here place yes Mr Deja vu all over again I'd like to offer amendment to SB one ninety seven Just go over the counter the Amendment. Yes the five great so in this amendment we throughout the process of socializing this bill working with stakeholders talking members of the committee we had some pretty common sense and consistent adds to the to the legislation in terms that that again to the main argument we're making here empower municipalities to enforce existing to enforce existing ordinances and make available selves of their police power a one add that from this is a a points with the very beginning of that our friends from the municipally added or ask for a clear definition on effectively prohibits that's not to say that they endorse this bill whatsoever I'm just we went after the Senate hearing we were we had questions about the definition of effectively prohibit in the main legislation we provided additional context here So one of the main adds to this is the opportunity for disparities to have a ninety eight or eight a three strike policy in essence if a if a short term rental has the same three violations over a ninety day period of that local ordinance the municipality has the ability to take that home offline for no greater than thirty days to address the problems to pay the fines and penalties and to hopefully make sure that those violations of those ordinances are nuisance ordinances don't occur again additionally we have allowed added language that allows for municipalities to take a home a short terminal Home offline if there is a wrongful or negligent death on be heart of my own book on part of a host of a guest so again if if there's an instance or scenario where someone is using a short term rental for a stay a tragedy occurs parishes the homeowner is found to be negligent and and contributing to that death allows for his body say we need to address a lot of problems here before we allow you to use your short term rental for guests to our communities and the third is in this was building off of again conversations we had and following the similar laws in other states regarding the allowance of the use of short term rentals for adult oriented businesses as well as prohibiting the use of short term rentals for registered sex offenders Not only again through the research of this the main platforms are significant platforms for short term rentals have have background checks do offline people who are violent violent and violent sex offenders from the use of that platform this is just to go in and record of five that for the purpose of short term rentals sex offenders can't cannot rent in the State of Arkansas as well as the use for alcohol sales illegal drug sales or other adult oriented businesses. So with that I offer my amendment to the Committee. Any questions. Representing the group. Yes thank you chairman in the minute it says a. This is talking and in some of this I like is giving the. The municipalities the ability to only include only will. Restrict them for thirty days if they're found. This is if the applicant has been found guilty of violating the same local ordinance three or more times within a ninety day period. ASA found guilty so. I'm a short term rental and I'm I'm fairly knowledgeable about the law you can give me a citation. And I don't go pay the citations I don't admit my guilt I ask for a court date in dealing with judges day sometimes that court date can be set off for you know month is common six eight weeks and that's just for one offense again have three within ninety days so if I miss Clark S. T. R. in a you're never going to get me ninety days three in ninety days to be found guilty of. Well that's assuming that by your interpretation fully adjudicated or guilty means not paying of the fine this is to missing a court date or or in some instances in by some definitions in your citation of a misdemeanor violation would ordinance is adjudicating and being found guilty of that crime but I understand what you're saying that maybe interpretation I don't necessarily believe that's before when I seen it to me our permit **** adjudicated this doesn't say this is found guilty dozens educated this is found guilty okay. Thank you. Okay any other questions. What's wishes the committee. Motion. Okay the motion. Any discussion on the motion staying none all in favor say aye. Those opposed say no. I seven. You may proceed to introduce your bill as amended. Thank you Mr again apologies for the the card before the horse we now have the bill as amended it with again with elements of compromise following conventional wisdom in other states that have secured individual property rights owners while still allowing and empowering municipalities to enforce existing ordinances I don't believe I need to re read give my speech but I'm happy to continue to answer questions as relevant to the bill and the bill with the amendment. Okay any further questions on the bill. Representative. Representative Hudson you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair what kind of feedback have you gotten from the local governments that will be most affected by this bill and I'm thinking in terms of some of the tourist locations in the state obviously I know that that the interest of those who are supporting this bill in those governments are likely Austin curious what kind of feedback and participation I've had in the development of this bill. The feedback has been a mixed bag again from municipalities I would venture to think that any municipality is outside of individuals on city councils are just the piece that had a lot of dialogue with those who appreciate the fact that the state is through this legislation would be clarifying created a level playing field in terms of municipalities that have gone so far as to ban municipalities that don't currently have any regulations on short term rentals I'd be hard pressed to find any municipality. And the broad sensor one speaking from his body that Is overtly in favor of us the states and again we have heard the term over reach I don't believe this to be an over reach I think this is us creating that clear level playing ground for all municipalities operate I haven't heard from Tunis bodies that are in favor of us taking away or over reaching their ability to over regulate there so. The representative of the Clinton you're recognized thank you chairman so a couple quick questions just of your speech first of all as far as P. always go if the PO a elects to not allow short term rentals this does not override that correct the PO I can make that ruling correct yet HOAs PO is Committee governance's and that was intentional not only it within the legislative framework very tough to create legislation that affects HOAs PA's but we don't have an issue or a desire to do that HOAs P. always community competences are a direct answer in a community response to community problem whereas we can't apply that same logic across municipality that has tens of thousands or sometimes hundreds of thousands of citizens so you're right it does not affect the ability for one to fifty or a hundred neighbors within a division subdivision gated community from create an H. away to ban short term rentals okay and then another quick question as far as the city me municipalities go they still you are not limiting their ability to print requirements upon businesses in their area so for example if they wanted to create a list of all the property managers thank you can they can still require the short term rentals to make those kinds of. Let is that correct so within the first amendment not a member that we touched a member that we engrossed prior to it introduction the Senate we included the ability from disparities to create a registration or no fee permit process it does not stipulate what that registration of the process permit process may consist of again if we're talking about barriers to entry in wanting to limit short term rentals municipalities can create a seventeen thousand questions long registration process I don't believe that their citizens or people are trying to investigate any would appreciate that but it does allow for them to collect information to collect data to have the ability to say Hey who owns these homes what's a reasonable way to get in touch with them who are their property managers who are individuals in this community that can help or be a part of the process of resolving any issue we may have with them and on one last question under promise and and then if I make if I'm a municipality and I make some zoning laws that's totally fine or I make if I make any requirements as long as it applies to everyone right not to short term rentals collections terminals long term rentals privately owned Wellings whatever yes thank. The. Representative rye you're recognized yes Sir thank you Mr chairman actually you know what you're doing here is is a you're changing use. You know of a home I mean this was a family single dwelling that's being turned into something that three or four different folks could be living there that carry the burden of automobiles and everything else is parking out in the streets with these folks cannot even park their own cars so I don't understand why you shouldn't have some type of a law that would say this that you would have to apply to a city. And and and once you apply to the city to change that then at the same time all neighbors should sign own that that's that's going to be okay because that's going to change the lives of the people that live up and down the street so we there is an application process represent right that's what I just mentioned we have a a a No a registration and no fee permit built into this bill so you're municipality in Truman can say anyone on Johnny rice street or anyone on any street in the city of Truman must complete this registration and musk obtained this no fee permit in order to operate a short term rental and as a part of that registration and and what the language of this bill does again creating no regulation outside of regulations you also place on long term rentals or private residences if you're if Trumann this is the city council Truman wanted to enact a good neighbor ordinance where you had to go introduce yourself to everyone of your neighbors as well as complete this no fee permit or registration they can do that because I mean at the end of the day I I did that we may not agree on the fact that this bill does not change you said after actually real lines used to what its original intention is but it is not there's nothing stopping your locality from having the power or the ability to say we think it's in the best interests of our citizens to go knock on their door and introduced themselves or it's and it we have no issue with the fact that is a part of this registration you do have to make information publicly available to your neighbors in the event of an issue public safety concern whatever that may be so what are we going to do we go mandate this is city's mandate what well I mean it it they're they're gonna have to sign all. The right sign off and say that the city says it's okay and then all the neighbors want to say it's okay to. I'm not sure I I'm tracking the question represent or mean it's it's basically you're saying that that they have to go to the city what does the city have to say okay I mean you know they may not do that and then you're affecting people that so you know in an area. I just see a real problem. Rep it represented Burch you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman so back to the registration there's nothing that prevents that from being public and then the thing that Arizona did that I liked was required that the owners notify their neighbours the three using the property as an STR you're saying that the city could pass an ordinance requiring that correct yeah. And then just a quick follow up also the city can also passed an ordinance requiring that the short term rental owner have to screen for sex offenders because that was a concern of mine early on as well well this look this law prohibits sex offenders from renting short terminals the State of Arkansas so in terms of code finder sees that you barrier one. Over it. In essence yes I mean eight a a city can mandate additional ordinance relevant to sex offenders I'm not sure. And again this is just running through the hypothetical about a city requiring a host a homeowner to be able to screen out successfully and less they have. That poster or homeowner has some form of nexus background check information ability I I again I think. Through the short term short term rentals or terminal platforms there are not a now there's a state there what with this bill there be a state line that's hard to cross in terms of the disallowance of sex abuse sex offenders platforms that do kick out sex offenders before the registration application process and then again if the city wants to create an ordinance that stipulates again no sex offenders staged your you know what six four five whatever that may be they're allowed to do that as well. I don't believe that this creates a limit on their ability to say host go out and do it as well but in my opinion I believe Clear now that we've added and and grit are engrossed in the additional amendment which is item number three in the second paragraph that specifically stipulates a requirement associated with the thirty days period that they can that that they can prevent a short term rental from continuing operation is there anything in that that and acts are should say prevents a local municipality from making additional requirements additional ordinances that may suggest that if they have two of these in a sixty day period than they would suspend additional or additional operations as long as it's. Across the entire residential population for instance an example because I know I kind of Rampal there you have a noise violation that occurs it is we dispatched I a enforcement officer a couple different times and then we do that again and again and now we've gone six times or five times or four times which goes beyond that local ordinance might suggest that something else or an additional operation Daschle finding additional escalation of action could occur is that correct there's no nothing in this that would prevent additional escalation correct and and again as it's tough when you write these amendments to it because. In an ideal world cities do have escalators for violations of their existing ordinances sure and this did nothing about this bill nothing about the essence or the the verbiage of this bill changes a municipalities ability to say after the third offense of the same ordinance violation or the same batch of nuisance ordinance of nuisance ordinances. You have a five acts on that fee or you have a ten acts or it's a twenty X. again This empowers municipalities to use those police powers to escalate those fees in a way that makes it does it does make it prohibitive for individuals to keep welcoming environment for creating experience where folks can be a nuisance to their neighbors in the community so it doesn't in this bill does not state that municipality is only confined to continual regulation of a nuisance home or short term operator beyond a certain point right this is just create a framework for the opportunity for those violations to be adjudicated for Nothing would prevent a municipality from enacting an ordinance regulation associated with let's say a maximum For every bedroom create a House curtain so if you have a a three bedroom house of six six I'm maximum six occupancy and then having a ordinance associated with that that has a Elation portion of this up to the individual cities associated with their own personal warrants is and their own specific requirements so that they can handle that in any way shape or form correct. Representative Hudson you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair so going back to the cost of. The permit or license what's the rationale in favoring short term renter rental operators in a way that requires that they be given a free license over any other small business operator we don't typically has to pay some sort of license. I would ask that you already bring up the. We don't allow that. Thank you. Go ahead so to your thank you for the question observance and I'm not conceding the point that short term operators are small business owners I am I am with this bill and I do believe that their private property owners so it I understand your question I'd I don't believe that's for providing a preference I believe that's putting private property owners back on the same level level as their neighbors who are long term rentals are individuals with multiple multi family homes or folks who live in any type of dwelling in their community so I I'm actually not this bill would take away any time government permitting licensure is or onerous penalties for people availing themselves of their property rights but the Arizona law for example which apparently this one is modeled after and it's been favorably cited here requires a two hundred fifty dollar license so what changes the character of property in Arkansas for short term rental purposes and they why not do it the same wires on this model this bill is modeled after the first short term rental bill that was passed through zona that we reference in terms of some of the regulatory framework that came after the fact that was in a separate General Assembly session this is modeled after the initial bill that came through isn't it true that the reason that they had to do a second bill was because there were so many issues with the first bill with regard to the proliferation of the I don't live in Arkansas nor do I work in the legislature so I can answer you don't live in Arkansas where I live in Arizona thank you. The representative would occur you're recognized thank you Mr chair a representative just couple things up to clear up some is something that's kind of been danced around I think hopefully to get a and. Clear. Absolutely. Stark answer. You talk about. Okay. A no fee registration. Question is. Do you will under this law if it were to become law. What is city be able to reject these registrations that it didn't find suitable for the neighborhood. No because that would be considered a regulation on them so it really is just a piece of paper here good news everybody into the short term rental company there's nothing you can do about I think that is dissemination of information of homeowners in a community for the purpose of the public safety is not just a piece of paper I think it's an important asset that a municipality can use to get in touch with homeowners if they have an issue with that home so I don't I disagree with that but not in your per your in an earlier you're talking about I believe in response to represent Max lumens question you're talking about the idea that property owners who who want to protect themselves from these outside nuisances could. Always have the opportunity to form a property association homeowners association is that correct. Is is that you're saying that that was one way to protect yourself from these is to go ahead if if one way or an H. away if that is the will of the community I'm saying that this bill does not does not create does not limit ability for individuals to create a situation here where can you convince me to covenants that does ban short term that that wants to be intratumoral okay so and what's to become of real old timers like me to believe in the wonderful Anglo American tradition of the freehold. I own my property at. Rien clear I am not associated with anyone. I shouldn't have to I have alderman and I have a mayor that I can go to. Only if this passes I won't is that correct. You'll still have an older mentor city councilman to go to who would be powerless after this bill passed correct that would be incorrect now they still have power innumerable powers in terms of their ability to run their municipality or their city as they see fit it would not allow those those same individuals to diminish the rights of property owners in their municipality could they reject an application that was deemed detrimental to an existing residential neighborhood yes or no no thank you. Representative Linda you're recognized thank you chairman so it just kind of follow up on one actually has represented Hudson was talking about and when we look at the Arizona law got a lot of emails of people asking about the Arizona law and saying that the governor had repealed the law but looks like there is a new law put in place can you just address that because a lot of people have that question about why are we doing this if the law work before didn't work yet so the concept of short term rentals is ubiquitous to every state the. The framework of counties municipalities in this community this community powers are different and I would say our zone is in terms of very empowering it with a high multitude municipalities and cities we are on this side of the spectrum in terms of we Arkansas is comprised there is on the other it has three cities over a million people as twelve counties county executives in Arizona basically and more or less are our small princes within a larger democratic area their power to to regulate their large municipalities that have populations again over a million is in stark contrast to what we have in Arkansas we have points of interest we have tourists tourist locations we have places people want to visit within the state outside of the state in rural communities that are not service by. Invention of hospitality outlets so I would say that albeit that did occur and they the governor did pass first a preemption similar to the legislation we have here and then came back and clean up some of the language that they saw again I don't work in Arizona I'm not in the legislature from what I've understood we have some folks who have been a part of both of those administrations have told me it is a it is a completely different environment in Arizona that it is in Arkansas in terms of a county executives verse are very empowered mayors and city councils in the State of Arkansas it It quick follow up it in your amendment that we just passed you have incorporated some of those things that he put in his second bill the clean that built into your current bill is that correct correct. Again following the consistent line of. We believe that cities miss Patty should have the ability to police and enforce their ordinances to make sure that it is a quiet and enjoyable community for everybody these amendments are consistent with that it allows for use penalties for repeat offenders for homes that are a danger to to not only honor but those who visit the home as well as those who do not want our community to visit at all in the ends in the case of sex offenders it gives recourse and reproach for those municipalities to to address those issues. Thank you. Okay I am seeing no other questions okay representative long. You're recognized thank you Mr chairman. Representative McKenzie I'm. I'm really big on property rights and it with all manner of. Liberty tax questions I'm always thinking importers must nobody right stop your start nice person. And In this situation. I can consider my bounds the situation on the phone for. We have no rules of the country in one of this considered by the pharmacological the neighborhood like that but there is no assurance that things might not change. Selected by the Pharnext man put into a pig farming I could be someone that for the rest of my life. But. You people that buy in the city I think a lot of times they they do it because they want these zoning laws and stuff that I don't want any part of but but they they've they've chosen to live in the city maybe for that reason and it seems like this may be changed the rules on them can the mental game because the. I think they've been missed a lot of money in in this neighborhood and now which I think that if a short term rental maybe went right next door to someone that that would adversely affect their property value in a way that I didn't anticipate when they purchase the property originally will. Great question thank you represent long we've seen their studies that I could provide a supplementary to this but not in terms of property value struct a start in the coming conversation property value at individuals coming in buying oftentimes single family dwellings that are affordable prices to rent renovate rehab and to create a better a bit better home that was previously there it It logically creates a high higher private property value for not only the individual that is purchased the property but those around it people invest in our communities are increasing our property values so I understand your Senate and kind of to the first point about I purchased in here it wasn't a short terminal prior to you know I understand and respect that perspective you purchase that plot of land L. B. it may be in subdivision an advocating the fronts may have pretty facade you purchased a parcel of land and albeit the human condition that helps us think that well this is my area or this is you know that the close proximity to where I call home your home is is that parcel of land that you have a deed to it does not extend onto your neighbor neighbors force and I have albeit I understand respect the fact that people may say something has changed since I purchased this home That is that is the very nature of buying property even if you want to stand at things in elements outside of that property that outside your control are still outside of your control. Sortir point I can feel the same way for the person that bought the property of with intentions of making it a short term rental because you like it I've got an investment in this to correct and I hate to see them go in basically in the rules change on them and now they can't do what they intended to do and on may not be able to make the mortgage that that kind of thing it's it's I just want. Brel's changing after people have made a massive purchased in course of time still the home is maybe the largest purchased eleven right and your bits it's a difficult question procedure trying to answer thank you respond. K. S.. Representative rock you're recognized yes thank you Mr chairman a lot of difference in owning three acres bill Nye a House. In order for life. And when you got only a certain amount of room in front of that line. The cars twenty three foot long. You don't have you're not gonna have ample space. Thank you. Okay seeing no other questions we will now open it up to the public to speak for and against first up to speak against is thank you right Ragsdale. You would come up and identify yourself and who you're represent. Yes come up to the table please turn the microphone I don't think the monsoon and just mash the button. Yes you're ready. Yes the representative Andrew. Yes represent Hudson you're recognized. All right thank you thank you Mr chair This this bill I think it's garnered quite a bit of interest and we still got plenty of time before we start session so and I would I'd encourage everyone to vote no on this if we get close on time I think that we can revisit it but at least to start I'd like to give the citizens who came here today the opportunity to speak. Okay representative quicker you're recognized thank you Mr chairman echo representative Hudson's comments I think we haven't even begun public comment yet if it begins to become a problem with long speeches or record in a continuous repetition of the same points that I would love to enter you know vote for a motion like this but for now let's let the people talk. Okay we have a motion on the floor any other discussion. All in favor limited debate the three minutes per person say aye aye those opposed say no. Are you got a. Okay. You would identify yourself and who you represent and you may proceed okay I'm Vicky Ragsdale my husband Bob and I have lived in our agenda which is in downtown north little rock for almost seventeen years when we moved in of there was a duplex behind us that was developed into a boarding house and it was a weekly rental and we have seen any number of crime issues we've had property damage we've had drunkenness we've had panhandling loud music of fights the police called multiple times and even an attempted murder. I called the city after the attempted murder and was told there were no regulations first for boarding houses in our community and that any time there was an incident to just call the police which we have done for almost seventeen years and so this law to me is a very thinly veiled attempt at circumventing the law for a few people that are eligible to buy and be professional owners of short term rentals these are investors I've been I was president of our or Jenna boosters for two terms and vice president for one term I've been on the Argenta community development board since two thousand and eight we are we are the one Senate redeveloped Argenta and and turned it into what it is today. And we're in the process of selling our properties and we don't want to shore we don't want to settle two short term investors we want homeowners to live in those homes we want to community we want our elected officials on a local basis to make our rules and help us govern the state of Arkansas doesn't want federal interference anymore then we want state interference I've got a study here from Arizona you all talked a lot about the laws in Arizona this is from February twenty twenty one I'm sorry I'm a little bit nervous. I was read it was done by Elliott politicking company of Scottsdale Arizona their economic and real estate consultants and Scott still and they said during the course of the study it became obvious that the so called unintended consequences of the short term rental industry often directed by Airbnb. Are actually directed temps to undermine local land use control health and safety regulations and tax collection all in an effort to maintain and grow revenues for this industry in the case of Airbnb preserve it stock market valuation currently this is in twenty twenty one currently more the Marriott and Hilton combined. And in conclusion they wrote the true cost of the S. T. R. industry are externalized on many segments of the society for residential neighborhoods must deal with disruptions crime in ways to the hotel industry that is facing unfair competition to reduction of jobs into the housing market that is facing rising cost and reduced supply and one thing they do because I'm on the board at the CDC and I can't speak for them but what we have witnessed as we've sold properties as investors professional investors from local entities in the state I am from out of state that have come in and tried to buy our properties and they offer you an astronomical amount of money. So that anybody that's a first time homeowner or indigent would never be able to compare to the offers that they have made and that's why they say error being bees raise the value of your house because they come in and offer so much money to make sure the people underneath them to not meet that offer. And so all I'm asking today is to please keep this on a local level let our elected officials be our voice and let us be her. Thank you for your testimony. Now speak for it Larry Kelly. Mr Kelly pudendal by yourself for the record the represent you may proceed to. Yes Sir my name's Laurie Kelly I'm a real estate broker in Bentonville Arkansas. And I've also been a participant in the Arkansas realtors association legislative committee and political action committee have been involved in these kinds of conversations. And one of the things that realtor stand for is private property rights no matter who. And so I see this is a very. Simple situation although it has a lot of conversation going on. This is a conversation that's going on nationwide it's not just in Northwest Arkansas resort area conversation it's nation wide in our national association of realtors is done extensive study on this and has extensive data on this in fact I email that to each one of you. A along with my comments and and counterpoints and I hope that you had a chance to read that I know it's quite involved in lengthy but there's actually even more data about about supporting the ability of short term rental operators to operate their their properties in that manner. And so although I'm. I don't own any short term rentals I'm a real estate broker and so I talked to all of these people in the community that are homeowners and have concerns about short term rentals on their street I talked to the investors as they are that come in and buy a home with the intention of doing a short term rental I happen to be a long term rental owner it's a my plan for retirement. And the as are many people it's a way to generate revenue in the real estate industry. So when when we look at private property rights it's for everyone I don't think that we want to discriminate or pick winners and losers in their private property rights. So. I believe that and and the law supports this and I cited many of those things in the information that I sent to you there's much case law available that says that that those folks have the same rights as owner occupied rentals and I think that what this bill does is tries to identify that everyone should be treated equally owner occupied long term rental and short term rental. And that they have the right to do that and that those rights should be protected and representative McKenzie did a great job articulating how all the complaints that we hear about those types of things that are problematic can be addressed by the communities policing powers already that there's a parking issue the police should be call it there's a noise or or a are a drunken disorderly problem whether it be an owner occupied neighbor on my street or a long term rental neighbor on my street or short term rental occupant on my street those folks should all be accountable to the same guidelines and rules each and everyone. And and so I I I am concerned about targeting a certain group because of the length of the state in that property. And I don't think that's fair I don't think it's equitable I don't I think it's discriminatory of because I've heard lots of comments we don't need to bring up to what each one of those but I've heard lots of comments about those people and how in fact the comment was made to me today that that every short term rental occupant has broken the rules well I travel around the country I almost exclusively on short term rentals if I can depending on my need. And I don't think I'm a rule breaker I think I'm a pretty easy tenet a. Now short short term rentals are very different than hotel and motel occupancy I also stay in those when the need is requiring that but I don't think that we're competing for the same people I have a I have a desire to stay in a short term rental maybe because it does it leaves me with some more freedoms to maybe prepare meals there my wife and I travel in life may want to prepare my breakfast there might wanna have a long have more than two cups of coffee there those things are different than hotel and motel and I think that. The by identified them separately is simply unfair and unequal This conversation could go on and on you're going to hear much Andal double Information today folks that say that their neighbors at in the short term rentals have caused problems for them I am not unsympathetic to that I think that people should be accountable for their behavior and I don't think that this bill takes away that ability I do see and I've read many of the ordinances in Arkansas and around the country in fact some of the states that have tried to address this and I believe that when municipalities do over reach and I think it's easy for them to do that in the environment that they're in I think it's not only beneficial but imperative that the state make some cap or guidelines to that I think this bill a cheater achieves that and and I think that it should be what we consider to level the playing field is represented to Kenzie indicated I'm I'm not. I'm not trying to take away anyone's rights especially municipalities of but I do believe this is an over reach on some of these ordinances and and I don't believe that that the law supports their ability to do that now the recourse that we're seeing in some of these areas are that short term rental owners have organized and are contesting that they're protesting the ordinance that's been passed. But not every municipality and the owners in that area. Really are very well organized to do so they haven't I mean. The the the rule of law is great but it's available to those that can afford it and know how to apply and so I think that in many areas people just simply don't know how to or they don't have the funds to or they don't have a leader to do that we do have that in Northwest Arkansas we're pursuing that based on the ordinance has been passed and that of and that Bellavista locality and I believe it will prevail because I believe it's unfair. I think that if we look at this in the state in the. The through the the vision that everything should be fair and equal both short term long term and owner occupied I think that you would also support this bill it concerns me when municipalities over reach like this it concerns me when any governmental agency over reaches the private property rights of the citizenry it really concerns me deeply and to quote a good friend of mine I believe that is the camel's nose under the tent flap. If you don't take action pretty soon you're gonna have a camel in your tent. And so I would encourage this body to agree with the bill and a do pass. I'll take questions. The representative right you're recognized yes thank you Mr chairman okay let's let's take your spot from being a realtor to a homeowner. Let's just say this or that you have a seventeen hundred square foot house with an overly. And you've got about two or three places that you can park in front of your house. What do you do when you have folks. In a house next to your that have six or seven callers and they got a park somewhere else so they're parking in front of your house or are these people that I actually own the home where are they supposed to park their car well I think that I would be calling the police to have those cars ticketed if they're not supposed to be there that's what we're talking about is a is a policing power of follow what is is not against the law. It's a straight okay Sir there's no good drive way it's just a straight Sir many municipalities have rules against parking on the street. No Sir you have that everywhere and I would also indicate that that many. Of rental properties especially in downtown business districts have no parking at all. And so it's incumbent upon that person occupying that property to arrange for their transportation I don't think that they should infringe on your rights parking in front of your property that your property and I agree with that completely up but there are rules against like I said in my experience most municipalities have ever rules for off street on street parking and in many cases they'll just simply tell it of the municipality will do that so I would encourage you to enforce the existing regulations that prohibit that kind of behavior. Yes Sir but if it's a city street how can you in for set top some in front of the house is actually a street that the full draft as true and for up and throw. Well I understand your question I don't think that I don't think that driving on the street is the same as parking on the street I think you have the right to drive on the street I don't necessarily think that each city or municipality gives you the right to park on the street. Specially in front of my house. It is what it said were so that's everywhere we know what here's what I would say representative right. Is that unfortunately and I know that you're going to hear some testimony today that that is specific to these folks property and have experienced something similar what I'd say if you took the data university universally. That you're not going to find that many complaints against parking you're not as a percentage of short term rental owners or even long term rental owners you're not gonna find that large of percentage of complaints that target that specific issue it may be a very small percentage. Yes Sir but that may be the case as as long as the homes are single single homes but when you add another four five folks to the house next door to you those cars have got a park somewhere. I'm not indicating anything different but let me tell you I told you that I own the long long term rentals on several of them. And if I have a tenant that has husband wife and two of teenage children they may have for vehicles. And so that type of parking situation could exist for a long term rental it could exist for an owner occupied property and so why would you treat short term residency any different than you with long term or owner occupied that is my point I think the reason is because the percentage of of folks that are actually going to be moving in to live in a house that's next to a single dwelling the chances of needing more parking places is actually there. Well under I would say that if I have a long term tenant or owner occupied neighbor living next to me that has multiple cars and not enough room to park them that they're going to be a problem for me much longer than the weekend that the short term rental owner the occupant is there. They may go away in two days if I've got a long term rental problem then that person is going to be parking in front of my house all the time it and that would need to be addressed certainly represent have we have quite a yes thank you Mr chairman thank you that's all I have thank you we appreciate your testimony. Now speaking against it don Senate is that correct. Would please state your name do you represent and you may proceed okay. You know a bill or my name's don Senate you know a bill is in trouble with the Senate is against it. I'm gonna do something unusual amount not to talk about the complaints we have about STR's I'm gonna talk about the wording of the bill. And. It's my contention that this bill. Is signed. Based upon two forms for endings. A questionable definition an is in direct conflict with the keystone registration covering zoning Arkansas fourteen fifty six four sixteen first of all. Well I mean when I say it's based on false findings well the authors of the bill. Side the Arkansas constitution section to the. I talked about property rights and then she. In paragraph three of the bill we read Arkansas Senate Arkansans have a constitutional right to use their property without intrusion by the government there is nothing in the Arkansas constitution that they presented which says we have a right to. Own operate or property without intrusion by the government that's for which that's. Government programs regulations every day that restrict our use of property. What it does say is we have the right to a quieter. Yes protect or property. So. R. paragraph three is false. We go to paragraph four which says local governments often hold back tourism and infringe on property owner's private property rights by pressing ordinances that inhibit property owners right to use their property as they see fit as they see fit of seems again what a real stretchable world wrapped of we have to have constraints. I. Any. Market place that is not managed becomes unmanageable. We say there's a problem with the definition when you get down to the definition of short term rental. I read like a catalogue of five different business types we've got condominiums business is normally cooperatives normal business. And measures you have a whole section of the code dedicated to regulating time shares and this will be a of those regulations. We get into in the definitions is that what the bill does the tries to create a hybrid. It has. A business someone are. An entity created for the purpose of our generating a profit. But it's also residents it's where someone lives so what they're saying is we're gonna make a hybrid. We're gonna lead a business at work a resident. Well if you're gonna do that. Make up your mind. If it's a residence. It shall obey all the rooms residences which includes friends that possession recovered by police powers but you know how difficult that is when you have limited police forces. How about the business side of it short term rental run and say we're not a business in Europe with their given business opportunities that hotels and motels would love for instance we have the advantage of proximity. Hotels and motels can't be right next to a lake or stream or bacterial or the forest what are the damages they have. Hotels and motels. Don't have to comply with the same laws of the Americans with disabilities act nope didn't prior to them how about the regulations that cities pass the truth or after the required number of parking spaces based on the occupancy of a building and providing a handicap parking no don't have to comply with the procedures. How about the labor laws okay don't worry about them because they don't have anybody working on site so here we have them with advantages in your poll we're not really businesses well they have to take they have to pay. Either in occupancy tax or an advertising tax in most localities or which side of a hybrid of the going to be on the tax issue what if I'm a resident I shouldn't have to pay that occupancy tax. But. They're gonna have to pay the tax there so you would get this hybrid situation at the Catholic Littler converter that's going to be stolen is our rights as residents. Someone with. To some of your friends. Rep drunk short term residents have on communities first of all this bill is going to destroy the zoning authority of local governments because it's a short term R. Reynolds now who knows which should come back next and see all the should be able to serve on us when we report form or neighborhood for instance yeah can I make you interest of special interest groups is superseding the rights of the resonance the housing shortage for working class residents is going to be exacerbated of. What's the word I'm sure take can't think of the word but. Jennifer cation. Happens because the rest are short term rentals we've got a housing shortage you read about it all the time in cities like Bentonville were no March bringing in the world and doesn't know where to park one. Nuisance violations you're about them are family friendly neighborhoods will disappear will probably be a short term rise in. Home home prices as the short term rentals why don't. Property. But long range decline as people don't want to move in because they become resort neighborhoods. Less than on Sega's urban amendment we're gonna let them register all the best to yours and that's such a great gift for they don't have to pay anything to register. I can five bedroom house I'm going to register right away if they looked allow that I don't plan to be honest to your but something they want to sell my house that regulation will allow. The whole neighborhood to be set up to turn invest yours and it's thanks my dad has a point but only with from the time you were born so they carry off members things aren't so bad the worst worst with SDRs if you let this bill pass thank you. Thank you for your. Again. let me let me express the we don't applaud we don't cheer we don't we don't do anything like that in committee. All right speak up for the bill Larry Kelly. I'm sorry jurors NO. For the bill. And if you have if there's two of you eleven the signed up into if you want to come together that's fine we have no problem with that. All right a representative Collins you're recognized thank you Mister chair I I and I agree with the people who commented earlier that we want to make sure we hear everybody I actually think that in order to hear everybody we might need to limit a little bit because I think we have to get out of here by eleven forty five is that right a yes okay so I I would move just so we can make sure that we're hearing everybody and you all don't get forced to not be heard that we limit debate three minutes per person okay at that motion any discussion. Hearing none all in favor say aye. Those opposed say no. Hi seven. Okay. So you are limited to three minutes before you start before you start let me clarify something we have we have another meeting that comes in here at twelve and we got to be out here no later than eleven forty five. But after session we will come back and hear testimony fifteen minutes on a German. and we will continue this this afternoon all right wrist though you're you're recognized that introduce yourself and you represent you may proceed. Mr chairman and members of the committee thank you very much for this opportunity my name is Jerry snow. I'm a member of the Bellavista city council. I have a I had a whole list of things here that I wanted to to bring to your attention but it seems like that there is no absence of of either side I'm asking you to vote for the bill Senate bill once fifty one ninety seven because I don't I don't think that it creates all of the issues that some people seem to think that it creates thank you to level the playing field I don't see the a the justification in limiting or regulating short term rentals and not doing the same thing for long term rentals or other forms of rental what what is the difference if you're going regulate one one not regulate a mall in that's I don't think that anyone is that I know of in the short term rental market objects to any kind of regulations of a bill that regulations is necessary if the it keeps the it keeps the the the the market in balance so that there may be there's not an over abundance of them at the the market is justified or is controlled by the need and like in prisons and Bellavista there is a tremendous need Bellavista does not have hotels or motels but in the particular order said bill was to pass. Certain location for excluded because they were identified as commercial. and in this particular situation object ordinance that we're dealing with. it could be easily interpreted as a overregulation is an overt effort to regulate this the the industry to basically turn short term rental owners into criminals. they've been accused a variety of things and everything except property owners and accept property owners that contribute to a significant amount of money to the city's income in the form of taxes sales tax. And again provide an asset to the city because people who visit the city of both of us to have a place to stay we don't have to go to another town Rogers been bill or some place to find a place to stay. So As for as local control I would remind you that the the Senate and the house passed legislation that took a form of local control away and that was in the form of the freedom of information act. The you in your wisdom to determine that the freedom of information local control could not be managed in the manner in which it to. Should be or should would be in in the matter best interests of the of the people so I would encourage you to Look at the short term rental ordinance in the or short term rental bill Senate bill one ninety seven in the same form it with that is there any questions of me. Okay. Representative berry did you have a question okay. In the Clinton you have. That's now could see down here we say coming down I have a quick question for you. For about of the state you have fine work from my home or if I have like hair cut business out of my home and my still in our one home residence is my home still red zone are one or two I am a registered as a business I'm working from home I have a home based business am I still a residential home. I'm I'm sure that in the one question one more time if I work from home okay so I have a home based business is my home still zoned R. one yes okay thank you. We have no more questions thank you for your testimony thank you Sir okay. Our next love speak against this. Yes yes. Please a good brother Mike yes thank you if you would state your name and who you represent and you may proceed well the My name is David Evans NO I am an older man with Eureka springs city council and a commissioner for the A city advertising and promotion commission in Eureka Springs. I come to you today with the full weight of Eureka springs city council the mayor of the city advertising and promotion commission and residents of Eureka Springs we are the residents and business owners in Eureka springs Arkansas. Eureka's only industry is tourism. My tourism based small business has about thirty four employees many service industry workers make a living working in Eureka springs at the various hotels restaurants and shops. However they're unable to find unable to find housing in the area due to the alarming saturation of Airbnb is B. RPOs the cost is that several. Your record Springs per US census data is approximately six point seventy eight square miles for purposes of this example I'm about to give you will say the Eureka Springs covers twelve square miles. To include short term nightly rental properties are just outside of city limits according to Airbnb is very own website there are currently one thousand three hundred and twelve active properties available for short term activities in our zip code. This is it and the RBO has listed six hundred ninety nine properties this is a total of two thousand eleven short term nightly rental properties available for rent so two thousand eleven ninety rentals divided by twelve square miles equals one hundred and sixty eight rentals per square mile in the region springs up code doing the math there is a ninety rental approximately every thirty feet that you walk in our zip codes of Eureka Springs. Shortly after this bill came out of the Senate Airbnb based in San Diego California sent tens of thousands of emails to B. and B. customers not surprisingly about ninety percent of those owners were from California New York Colorado Oklahoma and Texas following that email the short term nightly rental company of Acosta reported twenty two percent increase and not your rental supply for northwest Arkansas in general is twenty two percent increase was for the last quarter not the entire year. He that property management companies and individuals from out of state were buying properties for the sole purpose of turning them into short term rentals Eureka springs city council in an accident ordinance to halt further saturation into the market in order to allow the residents to find and keep affordable housing. Per S. B. one ninety seven the very last paragraph and number three restates the Arkansas constitution or Kansans have a constitutional right to use their property without intrusion by the government let me repeat that last section our Kansans have a constitutional right to use their property without intrusion by the government or Kansans have the right our Kansans living in our cities not Texans not California's not Oklahomans not new Yorkers not LLC's knock Airbnb not. The RBO and not because. Those who buy properties inner cities have a due diligence to do research on the location they're purchasing one ACT one cannot purchase a home that is located within an H. away and then cry wolf when that a show a is infringing on their property rights this is no different in cities and towns have passed ordinances preventing additional short term rentals correct spring city council elected by our Kansans ordinance does not impact existing Airbnb is it just prevents additional ones from entering the market. If buyers don't like to work the ordinances that the town has passed then they should not buy the property. If you choose to pass SB one ninety seven your vote will be contributing to the downfall and eventual demise of tourism in Arkansas we employees let cities and towns decide what is best for them please vote no on SB one ninety seven. If it happens again I'll clear the room okay thank you. thank you for your testimony coaches may I have a question okay representative of Richardson you're recognized. Thank you Mr and sorry I my button after instead of so that was my mistake so thank you so much for your testimony I really appreciated that you focused a lot on your in your testimony on the purchasing of the the properties by people that you see in that are out of state and and better coming from other areas I'm curious of what you feel or what your perception as about the current owners that live in Eureka Springs having the right to sell their property as they see fit. Our current owners can certainly sell their property but like I stated your extreme city council enacted an ordinance that. No new Airbnb is our short term rentals can come into play so that property right the property owner certainly has a right to sell their property but if an LLC or company from outside of Arkansas once again into turning into an Airbnb then we have a moratorium placed on short term rentals this so based on that if I'm a property owner currently in Eureka Springs owning a piece of property and I choose to. Use that property as a short term rental moving forward I also wouldn't be allowed to do that is that correct. Under our current moratorium now so would not as a property owner would be able to use my property as a seed okay You can use it as you see fit but like I said city ordinances were put in place by people who elected us to keep our cities available for housing. For affordable housing for our citizens and residents we have people living in tents outside the city because there's no place for them to rent. That's quite unfortunate yes it is. Thank you for your testimony your honor no more thank you chair committee yes. Okay I now speak up for the bill of Laurie Frank. This state identify yourself for the record and who you represent and you may proceed. My name is Laurie Frank and I read represent myself as a homeowner in northwest Arkansas. I'd like to take just a second and talk about a couple rights. As a homeowner three of my of three of my properties one a long term or short term and my own residents I have three options that I can do with those houses. I can rent them I can live in them or reconcile the. Private property is just that private property if someone is not endangering others the owner should be able to to freely do what they want with their own property and do it as they wish these arguments apply equally to long term. And homeowner and regular homeowner's. In addition to property rights issues there's a right that very rarely gets discussed when we're discussing this and that is the right to assemble there wasn't a case in Texas. it was the satori versus city of Austin it was the S. T. R. case. And the court found that the freedom to assemble on private property with the permission of the owners was just as strong if not stronger than when it's exercised on private property. The property target for the regulation of owning or leasing is what it's always been. Respectful behavior by who's occupying the home and that. That doesn't just say STR's that doesn't just say long term rentals that's everyone. But just like. Say during prohibition STR's have been demonized we've been called a lot of different names we've said that we are ruining neighborhoods and corrupting cities. But those same cities are trying to ban us doing one of the three things selling leasing. Or renting. We appreciate what you're doing here. Because sooner or later in every city and state higher level education look elected officials and judges just like yourself are going to step in and say whatever else we do. We treat everyone the same. We don't abandon freedom whatever its faults no. We regulated we make money on it through taxation. And that is after all the American way. I ask you. It. Please treat every homeowner the same and don't disregard our freedoms to sell it to rent it or to live in that. We ask for a level playing field only thank you thank you the real question. Are dismissed. Eaton. Yes come forward. You are speaking up against the bill correct correct all right you have three minutes to make see have you. Okay chair and committee members thank you for your time today my name is Ethan eleven you know and I live in Eureka springs Arkansas I'm representing myself as a resident. I'm not a lawyer and on a constitutional law but I believe the Arkansas constitution was misrepresented earlier and I would like to read you article two section twenty one this is quoted in the bill no person shall be taken or imprisoned or deceit of his estate free hold liberties or privileges or outlawed in any manner destroyed or deprived of his life liberty or property except by the judgment of his peers or the law of the land. So I would like for us to focus on the line except for the judgment of his peers of the law of the land. Judgment of his peers is city council not comprised of peers. Or by the law of the land is that not the ordinances passed by city council. I believe the restrictions on nightly rentals are protected in the Arkansas constitution so long as they are done by a judgment of peers or by the law of the land removing these legally passed restrictions is disrespectful and disgraceful to the law of the land now on a personal note the other argument for this bill is that removing restrictions promotes tourism and I'd like to shed some light on my own personal experience living in a small tourist town over ran with nightly rentals. A small business owner of a bar restaurant and motel for the last two years of like to share some stories of my staff with you just a bartender in his late twenties had to live out of his car last year during the hot summer months because he couldn't find housing Allen a cook in his early forties stayed with in one of our larger rooms because he and his wife with a physical disability confined a home to live in. Katie a bartender in her late twenties with the newborn drives two hours one way for her chefs. Everest housekeeping staff at his late thirties has made a home out of a shed way out in the country without running water or electricity because you cannot find a home to live in in town. Shayanna cook in his mid twenties state and one of our larger rooms when he ran out of couches to sleep on Billy and cassia a manager at the front desk manager in our front desk staff in their late forties live in a campground with the continue to search for a home in Eureka Springs. Bristol a housekeeper in her early fifties lived out of her car for two years in the freezing winter temperatures we put in a lot of room or else she would have frozen to death in tow for a dishwasher and early forties and to leave for a job that offered on site housing. Lastly sky a farmer hotel manager in her late twenties lived on the property for two years before she was able to find housing if there's no housing available for people working in the tourism industry then there is no tourism industry at what point is a town so saturated with nightly rentals of there's no people in town to work at a local hotel the kayak rental shop or the zip line what about the grocery store the hospital etcetera. Cities and small towns up restrictions in place to protect their town some of them have put these restrictions in place to protect the tourism in their town as the case with you because Springs we're on the verge of a crisis with not enough workers in the area to fill the jobs needed to keep tourism alive. I ask that you vote no on this bill protect the Arkansas constitution protect Arkansas tourism protects small businesses protect Arkansas and our Kansans the future of Arkansas depends on your no vote thank you. Thank you for it well we have a question if you don't mind sure okay. Representative David Andrews you're recognized. Thank you Mr of so in your motel is is in the motel Business social terminals. Business model it's a motel. So which is test technical short term assure so we pay business taxes accordingly I have business licenses accordingly. And that's your question but in a free and fair market was one business model good for some people but not yet for some others we are zoned as a business not zoned residential. Thank you. Representative quicker you're recognized thank you Mr chair Sir thank you for giving a testimony day of. Is it true that as an innkeeper you're actually much more highly regulated than just someone who would rent out a room in our house is that not correct absolutely yeah we are under various restrictions or oversight from not only our rooms themselves but also implement laws. And nobody's seems to think that's unfair right thank you thank you. Seeing no more questions are dismissed thank you for your time testimony. Okay now speaking for the bill is Merion heath. Please identify yourself for the record you may proceed. I'm solo yeah. Hi. Thank you counsel for having us all here today this is it's an honor to be here I've never been in front of anything like this before but I've seen a lot of your faces. Over fifteen years ago my husband and I made a wise decision we relocated from Hawaii where we lived for eighteen years to build our forever home in Arkansas. We knew we had found our true paradise the idea to have guests in our home beyond the occasional family and friends was attractive to us. After all we had one wonderful experiences for decades and travels being the guest of others. In two thousand twenty art became very ill I became is care giver we put our life on hold to fight the cancer that included not accepting gas. In life are and I we're a great team and it was the same with managing our STR we had pride enthusiasm and joy for what we did. Reviews from from I guess confirm that. We made our home a safe and healthy place for I guess to land at the end of their day. One of the specialty things I love to do for my gases leave them a gift basket that introduces them to exclusive artisan products and services I found in our Arkansas Community the basket has been a token of appreciation that they chose are home to stay in their travels. I include the stories I learned from my local artisans and farmers to encourage them to explore more of our Arkansas based small businesses like honey and wax candles from neighboring beekeepers and lavender products from a local lavender farm with information where to shop. R. S. past I am on a fixed income. The funds I generate from my STR is what helps me pay my bills it prevents me from being a burden to anyone. If I succumb to what the city has dedicate dictated me to do hello this is to say their financial demands will increase even more. Last year the mayor told me the city council was leaning in the direction of not including STR's like mine. Now the city is saying I need to be monitored with an ordinance because I am responsible for keeping the community safe and healthy. Are to all homeowners responsible. The ordinance on my home is a demand on short term rental owners only not long term in general rental owners not time share owners property owners of non rentals I pay my taxes I care for my home and property I am a successful citizen I respected. My guess have never been a problem just the opposite receipt through three minutes up you can wind up your statement though I just want to thank you all please vote yes. Thank you we appreciate your testimony. Announced speak against it is a list of a Elrod. Thank you chairman finite representatives appreciate I'm Elizabeth L. riding on from hot springs Arkansas I am here as a little lady who just lives in a neighborhood You're hurt a lot and you continue to hear a lot from STR owners STR managers you will hear from realtors you will hear from people who are backed by a business of. Giant of fourteen to seventy three billion dollar industry of Airbnb that seventy three billion with a B.. what you haven't heard from a lot is just people like me who live in a neighborhood any profit you may hear from more hopefully as the day goes on my family's occupied my property since nineteen sixty five it's some of we live on lake Hamilton and it's in a small planet subdivision and there's very very small lots and it's a very narrow streets My neighborhood is like many others is is in danger of disappearing there nineteen homes on my street alone my street that are non owner occupied right now there are six STR's out of those nineteen for our a permitted and are operating legally and to have ceased operating currently because they were not permitted. If this bill passes overnight thirty five percent of my street could become STR's overnight with the stroke of a pen. Nineteen homes my neighborhood is disappearing. When a person buys a home in a residential area they have a reasonable expectation that that home will be residential it will remain residential it will be treated as residential. These homes are being treated and operated as commercial ventures make no mistake about it none of the owners of the homes on my street live in hot springs none. Only to live in Arkansas for our out of state. The owners may come to check on their business venture once in a while once in a Blue Moon but not often. Some not at all they leave that up to their employees these people are employees of the business. Many think an H. away can protect you they can't if you do not have an H. away currently and you already have is two yards in your neighborhood there is no way you're going to get enough votes to put an H. away in place. Representative Richardson you asked the question about the occupancy if you have to provide a two per bedroom and I think it was a representative McKenzie did answer you that it would be it would be treated the same think about this I have a four bedroom house but I have seven kids. What you gonna do with them thrown out now you can't do that these are not rate you can't regulate STR's like you do residences Mister Rogers your time is up to you go ahead winder thoughts that thank you Sir short term rentals are very complex and this one size bill fits all will not work every area of the state is different allow the municipalities please to govern allow their representatives to talk to the people who live there and come up with the plan that best fits their needs I implore you please vote no on this legislation it is bad legislation. Thank you thank you for your testimony questions have no question. We are now speaking for the bill was a Machel cello. Okay. Please identify yourself for the record and absolutely I Michelle Shiancoe I'm representing myself I am in our cans and as a former justice of the peace my oath was sacrosanct to protect the rights of my constituents some members of my city council have forgotten their oaths or never knew them to begin with. I made the decision to short term renting twenty twenty when the government decided that my business was one of the committee that he thought was nonessential I quickly made the decision so I can continue to pay my mortgage since the governor left me with no income I rented a portion of my home not my entire home. Sorry as I'm sure you know Bellavista passing STR ordinance I wasn't going to mention it but now I'm going to. The stringent ordinance one that requires extra homeowner costs and differing occupancy limiting limitations depending on if they're on sewer or septic as well as a homeowner expense for a septic inspection that's not required of any other homeowner that's the level playing field I'm looking for. In fact represented to the city in regards to water usage and that S. T. R. as we're not putting undue strain on the septic systems showing proof of gallons used per day in accordance with the water usage ACT four oh two we were completely ignored when we reminded them of the platforms collect and pay taxes in a and P. taxes directly again we were ignored another requiring us to fill out with the a and P. personally and paid even though we don't collect the moneys. The platforms to and we were ignored when we reminded them that the platforms offer additional insurance that north once again and are now demanding writers for personal insurance policies and another direct expense to the homeowner. When reminded that the city of Bellavista does not have any other business license permit or rules or additional insurances for any business or residence or anything else again we were ignored and now the safety inspection includes a bullet proof vest in camera wearing code enforcement officer who can come into my home that I live in that's a violation of my privacy ignored. We also started registration have local caps on occupancy and to just enforce ordinances that were already on the books and we were dismissed. Through FOIA request high gathered information on the compartment complaints of short term rentals in Bellavista noise and parking no mention of septic from twenty eighteen to twenty two city wide out of six hundred ninety two noise and parking complaints called in only twenty three were noise and six were parking twenty nine out of six hundred ninety two over a five year period is six per year. Ordinances are supposed to be across the board not just on a small segment of the properties of a city especially septic myself in twenty one other owners felt so strongly that retained an attorney and have since filed suit against the city. I usually believe as former JP that local control is the best but there is a time that the state must intervene when cities have over reach and this is one of them. After the state makes several laws that the cities have to follow cigarette age drinking age even abortion and this property protecting bill should be passed to do the same I am asking you to please pass this bill and protect all our Kansans property rights. Take any questions. I have no questions thank you for your testimony. UP now speaking against the bill is Carol Graham. Please identify yourself for the record and you you read. My name is Carol Graham and I live in hot springs Arkansas and I'm here just as a person who lives in a neighborhood that's disappearing. that I agree with what all has been said before about when the people come in and I buy a car properties to charge a short term rentals it is race in the value of the property but it is causing other people to have to live outside the city because they can't they can't afford housing anymore but what I really want to focus on is safety my whole career I was in hospital administration safety is like paramount in hospital so it's always first and foremost on my mind in hot springs when we first moved to our house there were no we were in the county so there were no regulations at all it was a free for all and the house next door to us with head could sleep eight but they would sometimes have twenty people in there nobody had ever inspected the house to see if it was safe for whatever. Then we got a annexed into the city and shortly after that the city of hot springs put in checks and balances and a system to regulate the short term rentals it's the best thing that's ever happened this house next door to us did not apply until the last minute to get a permit which. We were able to go through the city processes and they were actually did not the permit before they could even get to the point of once you apply for the permit the city comes out and inspects and what they do is they make sure that no want to sleep in a closet that there's egress that their fire extinguishers that there are fire alarms and they all have to be connected from room to room that that there are not rodents in the house that their hand rails around porches that are too tall the house next door next door to us that had been rented for years with no regulations failed on so many points and so my point is really it has to be the city there's no way this state could ever look at that but just like hotels are regulated hospitals are regulated boarding houses are regulated you don't want someone dying in a fire because you just let someone who didn't take care of their property take in boarders if you will because that's what they are turn their house into a motel. The other point I want to make is The the representative said that on that sex offenders could not rent a short term rental well you know that makes sense but it's not going to be the short term work up to sex offender who was gonna apply to rent that but there's no one no one whether they're going to stay with the person who did read it Mr Graham you're you're three minutes up you can wind up your thoughts okay so I would ask that you do leave the regulation of short term rentals to the city the city's narrow where to focus and they also can have the manpower to go out and inspect these properties and make sure that we don't have people who were gonna die because their stay in in subpar housing thank you I really appreciate your time. I thank you. Now speaking for the bill is John to give. Not even get close. Because the please identify yourself the record see hello I'm shunning gear some of a a resident of northwest Arkansas. And I just want to thank you all very much for listening to all of our comments today and I met I'm a mom a wife a grandmother and a friend and neighbor and realtor as we all know of property rights or one of the highest rights that we have in the country. I recently sold a home. That was an S. T. R. and the neighbors were really sad to see it go in fact the neighbors or the ones often rented that home so that they could have extended family come and stay next to them. fortunately for that neighbor the next person that bought that home was another S. T. R. owner and that lived in Colorado and came here because they enjoy the mountain biking in the area and so they're going to get the privilege and to be able to lease out that home for their family members as since they have that right next to them when we originally moved to the area we also we needed a place to live so we bought the home with the intent to rehabilitate it and and live their short term while we look for a place to live. in the process of that we just absolutely fell in love with the neighborhood and we made so many many memories there found the original guest book from it being a previous vacation rental home and it just held a lot of fun memories in our heart we became really good friends with the neighbors that live in the two adjoining properties and over and eventually bought those out as well and those neighbors that we bought those properties from come back on a regular basis and is that the area and we get to see them our neighbors in the area are are great friends and with a lot of the people of coming stated our residences and we've we've met a lot of great people that have now become permanent residents of the area with that said there are thirty seven people a day moving into our area all of those people need a place to go to call how many of them have families and they're relocating do not want to be locked into a long term lease and this gives them the privilege of having a family home that they can stay in and be able to while they search for their forever home gives in that sense of peace that they have a place to land at night that they feel safe and comfortable and and they can kind of get to know their neighbors and get to know the area before they actually purchase in the area so that is definitely an advantage that we have as an STR owner and the gentleman behind me was talking about you re to Springs and I drive through the area frequently and I can tell you from my experience and from people that I know in the area that there's a lot of of a lot of places in your records brings that are not being utilized to the best ability a we have a lot of vacant hotels there that if they would convert those vacant hotels into a long term residences that would provide affordable housing for the people in the area Berryville is not very far away from the area as well it's a nine man. Dr so it's not like there's not opportunities for investors to come into the area and maybe re purpose some of those those homes in the area. Give any questions. I see no questions we preach eight your testimony thank you all right. All right Committee we're gonna stop taking testimony at this point and we will start taking testimony again at fifteen minutes after German sept nine we are recess for.