JBC-Personnel

Your patience and me getting here I'm gonna go ahead and turn it over to you Mr Tony Robinson's you and work through item be. Thank you manager item B. is request for UAMS this comes via a letter from the department of higher education. Request includes an additional four hundred and fifteen positions to be utilized by the proton center radiology and oncology center health specialty center and the New orthopedic and spine hospital request. Does not include any additional appropriation request the plan to fund all the positions to their clinical revenues. Do we have any questions on that. All right C. nine to have a motion to approve. Session second. All right and a motion and a second any discussion all those in favor please say aye. Oppose now mission carries. Okay we are going to skip over items seeks I do not see Senator Leding and the rain and we'll move on to item D.. Senator Hammer you are yes that be great thank you. Senator Hammer you're recognized thank you Mr chairman so thank you staged Kim Hammer state senator district sixteen Mr chairman may I be joined at the table by some folks are here to help me in. Presenting on this amendment please. And also the sheriff I could get copies I get my originals the staff copy please. No I've I've got that I just needed the. Thank you. Thank you all for your. Or burn centers yourself would. I'd like a crap Director of the Division of Youth Services. I tried there yep Troy Braswell's the circuit judge from the twentieth judicial district. You're recognized Senator Hammer thank you Mr I know it's late I'll be brief get to the point and let the judge probably do a better job than I can do at the end of the day we have a situation where the staffing levels and the funding to the C. step program which is now Mr by DHS was cut one was transferred from the Army National Guard back over to DHS there was a staffing level that was cut as a result that reduce the ability for judges to be able to stand up potential. individuals to the C. step program which if you're not familiar with the C. step program a let the judge tell about the benefits of it but what ends up happening then as a result is that kids that could otherwise go to the C. step program and the judge I think will speak to this leaves the judges in a real offer physician because of the next level to send them to say why C. which is actually a higher cost to place someone there that would be if they were to go through the C. step program and as you listen to discussion what I would like you to think about is we're about to look at a justice bill that potentially also will result in a building a new prison which I am supportive of by the way both of those efforts but the question arises is if we can do something to keep use out of ending up in those places why would we not want to do that in order to reduce the pipeline into the prison system if we can get the judges the tools that they need in order to be able to keep them from ending up there and I think they'll give some supporting documentation or statements that will help you understand that with that Mister chair if you are manager now if you all would I'd like to defer to judge of rest well to the to a given some of the finer points please. I'm sorry yes you're recognized thank you ma'am thank you again my name is Troy road will have the honor of being a juvenile court judge that caught covers Faulkner being here in an insurgency County we've been working for several years to reduce the number of kids that go into the most secure confinement for youth which is the Y. S. I'm part of that process is we've been backing from the legislature in the last couple of sessions for Judy juvenile justice reform in the main part of that reform is conducting risk assessments to determine levels of of risk levels of need and supervision and through that we've had a huge impact on how we handle each kid that comes through our court in our communities and one thing I want to be clear on this it's never about being soft on kids but it certainly about being smart in the way that we deal with them so it's one thing to know what areas of risk in what areas of need that a particular youth has but it's another thing to know what services are available so that they can be back in the community remain or remain in the community and be on a path to rehabilitation and and the senator Hammer mention hopefully not end up in our adult population the important part of that is having we for referred to as tools in the toolbox C. step is a fantastic program and that provides a very strong framework that somewhat similar and to the military it provides structure a good discipline environment the proposed again so self discipline respect for authority in good citizenship I can tell you that the kids that we commit percent excuse me to C. stat come back change they come back a different person for the first time they understand what it means to get up every day to make the bed and participate in positive things in their life I think it's important to note that we always talk about recidivism so what have. Eleven once a kid comes the core and receives the services specific to see step I'm only twenty percent of the kids that successfully complete the C. step program in that being committed to D. Y. S. that's a big deal that means that it works that means that when we have kids that we identified that maybe need to be removed from their home for a time being or at removed from their community to get some of that extra support we're able to do that provide them with the necessary tools to come back and be successful ninety re integrate back into their schools into their homes right now it's it's very difficult and I believe there are twenty eight judicial districts across the state there right now for thirty two slots available for each class that's basically one a judicial district so what happens is we know what works we want to send kids there but we're constantly not able to because those bed spaces have been cut in half or cut in previous years so we have kids that need to go that want to go but can't and unfortunately what happens is that those kids fall back into the same behaviors while they're waiting in in that potentially with more severe and sanctions and so on behalf of the juvenile judges will respectfully I'm requesting that this Committee approved returning those numbers back to where they used to be the other thing is this that but I want to leave you with this as a state we're under serving our female you Senator court involved and right now there's only one place out of home that we can send a young girl that suffering. And that's to be Y. S. that's the most severe penalty that's it and what this would do would allow us to have even though it's a very small number eight beds specific to female juveniles and that are court involved youth that's a huge deal and that's the first time that but I know that that it could happen in so just on behalf of the juvenile judges I'll I know you've been here all day so I'll be quick in and just say is juvenile judges were asking this committee to consider this and I understand that we're doing everything that we possibly can do to serve our communities and this is very important that this committee get that it's cool consideration thank you manager manager before open up to taking questions of could I point out a few things on the handout please. So one of things once a notice on the front on the handout it's one is got the the dark rate locks on the front of it one of things once you look at is the third paragraph and look at the cost that we're currently spending whatever you to sent to D. Y. S. when you for committed DYS the cost is two hundred thirty two dollars per day in or staying an average of six to nine months this equates to between forty one thousand seven sixty to six two thousand or forty per child the average cost per child it's the step is thirteen thousand five hundred and then I want you to notice also that only twenty percent of children that attend C. step have future delinquency so we've got a return on investment into the future which means that if we want to take the same amount of dollars REAPPROPRIATE them to re adjust them to where it's going to be more effective this would be a good way to go about doing it and the other thing is the judge mentioned a second ago is that a these beds are for female students one thing the judge didn't mention that he can either not as heather Boyce then is that we are seeing an increase in violence among the female of students or young people in our state and if we don't have anywhere to Senate except for DYS which is more costly approach to dealing with that I'm not sure that that's a good approach and with that manager open up to any questions members may have. Are there any questions from the committee. Thank you C. nine thank you all right. I am sure of one thing also the first notice if you will the first visit to our fifty thousand dollar outlay and then that reduces after the first year because we have this is gonna be placed over camp Robinson we look at another facility but working and I appreciate very much the of Mr crop in and staff we worked on this long time we do try to be better state camp Robinson in order to reduce the cost utilize the facilities that are there so we have tried to Whittle it down as tight as we can the manager just appoint education my partners issue proper time make a motion you gonna take that later. This is the appropriate time because there are no questions from committee as a member of the committee I'd like to make a motion to pass please thank you the motion we have second second any discussion all those in favor please say aye. Opposed no motion carries thank you thank you ma'am chair members committee appreciate very very much. Other. Okay we are moving on to you I and II an amendment by Senator Hester if you would introduce yourself for the record. bart Hester state senator. Thank you members of the the purpose of this committee being personnel I'm looking to add two positions to the lieutenant governor's staff to security positions. And the and the funding to follow happy to answer any further questions. Are there any questions from the committee. Hey. As senator Payton you're recognized for your question. Thank you madam chair so I've been trying to figure this out. Currently. There's security detail from the state police and this is going to put it within the lieutenant governor's budget. Where are you offsetting that on the State Police cider are they gonna be spending less money on the State Police under not is their budget going to go down there number of positions or anything like that if well you will remove the responsibility from the state police that's an actual special language which is you know that that'll be in a different committee when I go the special language as part of this amendment yeah well removes responsibility from the state police and will put these two positions in the lieutenant governor. So are we going to be spent on seventy five thousand more or not this is actually a two hundred thousand dollar minutes for two different positions for salaries and matching. So we're gonna be spending two hundred thousand dollars more in in this line item yes but in my in my opinion research will be saving an additional lease four hundred fifty thousand dollars on the State Police budget. Or probably not saving but using those positions for you know field work thank you thank you madam chair. There any other questions. C. nine I think the lieutenant governor. And would like to come speak. We have a hand out. Senator Dismang you are recognized for your questions Senator Hester and I think this just is off of center Payton and thought about it there's no requirement to positions be filled years authorizing to new positions that is correct yes authorizing. Governor you're recognized each state your name for the record. Thank you madam chairman. Leslie Rutledge lieutenant governor for the state of Arkansas. And I have asked staff to pass out of some materials for for you all to look at because I realize that this is that. I've sort of thrown on everyone last moment and number sometimes can be confusing as you all are in the final days of sessions I want to make sure that I did my due diligence under. I time constraints to get you all information that would be helpful making decisions I have had I did come today to speak in opposition. Of this amendment which I realize I may be a first for some and for constitutional officer anyone to come speak in opposition having positions and money added to their budget but I am strongly in opposition to this apple number of reasons I won because I believe it and grows government it nearly doubles the size of the budget lieutenant governor's office. It adds to personnel at a higher cost per officer then what we received from the State Police wall providing no equipment no weapons no money for training No vehicle additionally this amendment would require this at. This body and special language in joint budget to essentially. Okay change the law. The current law that's been on the books for fifty years which provides that the state police shall provide security for the lieutenant governor in his or her family I that is not on the books for fifty years that is the same law that provides security for the governor of Arkansas and that law is number one in your packet that is twelve eight one oh eight and you often see that I certainly during my tenure as Attorney General for eight years. And as it was winding down I began to evaluate how I would set my administration as lieutenant governor what that would look like one of those decisions I needed to make would be whether or not to I would be. Looking at twelve eight one oh eight of the code that provides for the state police to provide security. At their discretion for the. Lieutenant governor I received during ten years is the Attorney General I received numerous threats I because of the duties and things that I had done as the Attorney General bye whether it was defending some controversy all laws that were passed by the General Assembly such as our pro life legislation. it was less than a year ago that the U. S. Supreme Court overturned the Dobbs decision. At at. With regard to abortion I have yeah we all are familiar with the protests not just here the Capitol but many as individuals targeted their attacks at me personally and my home. We also have defended I have defended trans gender laws we have. As the Attorney General for eight year defended. I every appeal are handled every appeal the most dangerous enable criminals in this state and just less than six years ago. As the Attorney General the state of Arkansas I carried out along with the governor but my office carried out four of eight executions that made not just statewide news but national news and. Those are sort of some of the issues that I had to contemplate when I was trying to decide whether or not I would use this fifty year old statute that's been in place and others have. I came to this decision to use the detail because of those we also looked at research from other states and the forty five states that have lieutenant governors I'm not every state has lieutenant governor by the forty five states almost forty thirty seven of those provide security for the lieutenant governor I'd be a statute and this includes R. six contiguous states the six states that touch Arkansas this includes all of them except for Missouri I every state at certainly is a little bit different just as the role of lieutenant governor can be a little bit different in each state I made this decision public last October October eighteenth the day of the lieutenant governor debate I was asked about this in front of a number of members of the media print as well as television I have Mike with line from the Arkansas Democrat Gazette wrote a story on this so this this was not news but as we began to prepare for the new administration I was. Not approach by any members raising concerns about taking a a detail from the state police. And it was not until I met with the sponsor of this amendment I proactively to see if there was anything that I need to be aware of as we prepare to preside over the Senate. And that this was even brought up I offered at information to the sponsor with regard to some of the. To address some of the concerns and things that I had dealt with and reports and threats that have been made over the last eight years as to be able to demonstrate the need at we had spoken to state police administration the previous administration while still Attorney General after having been elected lieutenant governor to make them aware as well as the current administration. No one expressed a concern. Until I met with the sponsor of this amendment. And we move forward with our budget of three hundred forty three thousand dollars at which. Is a relatively small budget but we move forward with our three hundred forty three thousand dollars which is the same budget previous lieutenant governor and I it was set to be voted on on the Senate floor on my name. And although I've met with sponsored Amendment number of times and we had attempted to work this out and come to an agreement I had been told the last communication I had is that there would not be a. Special language run on this and Joint Budget and it wasn't until Monday that I found out that my budget. Was being held. In order to change a law that has nothing to do with my budget which is that twelve eight one oh eight and two and so that was the first I heard of it from the staff the bill or I was not told by the sponsor but rather by staff as I was walking into the Senate. And but I think it's important that as we look at. Some of the the recommendations made in this. Our proposal versus what's being provided right now by the state police or what could be provided by state police and state police have this in their budget they're not asking for an increase this is already in the amount of money that the state police has available. And it is not asking for an increase as you can see in your handouts at the second hand out that you have is the lieutenant governor's office appropriation the third is the budget amendment proposed by the sponsor. If next is. A state police expense break down and essentially a four troopers at four troopers were in fact assigned to the detail. What that expense would look like there would be one if it was expanded to include a supervisor. And so what you can see is that. The expense. Per officer. Is. About. One hundred and. Nine thousand per trooper according to the state police right now. Keep in mind I'm a lawyer I'm not a mathematician but if you look at the break down. And that's with their salary equipment vehicle. I ask because we actually have a I summer run that was already in the fleet at the state police breakdown contemplates if they needed to buy a new suburban. The sponsors. Proposal is one thousand dollar per security officer which only. Covers salary and match it does not provide for any equipment. For these officers it is not provide for a vehicle it provides for nothing except for salary and so it's actually per officer at it's. More cost but over all it would be an increase and two hundred thousand dollars or as the state police is able to to handle this they're not asking for extra likewise if officers were. And the personnel the lieutenant governor's office they would not be available to do other. Duties in the event that state troopers. Such as the troopers that are currently on the detail they're actually able to say step in and work on the detail of the governor. However the two officers that would be employed under this proposal would not be able to do any other duties except work for the lieutenant governor and so therefore there could be times when those officers may not be needed that I made. Actually be on a vacation I've never taken security detail anywhere on vacation for the record that I may and so I would need those officers for that week at a time for those two at that time those officers would not have any responsibility and not be able to be used any where else and so I think it's you know this proposal. Is it. Gross government. It. Is a. The cost difference. You're basically for. Two hundred thousand dollars you're getting to folks that. Would be on staff and the lieutenant governor's office as law enforcement officers we're not prepared and do not want to be a law enforcement agency. The state police is the appropriate venue for this the appropriate menu is not the lieutenant governor's office. I'll be happy to to answer any questions I'm trying to I want to make sure that I have provided you all with. As much information as I have without getting too far in the weeds because again I just received this I had not seen this proposal until Monday afternoon and so I have been trying to put together a thoughtful response that would help this body make a decision and once we realize that basically. The cost of the officers. Was. Out of sorts as well as what you're getting for that officer because unfortunately this proposal will force me or any lieutenant governor to come back to this body and ask for an increase budget in order to properly outfit officers I don't believe we ought to be grown government I don't believe that we ought to be making the lieutenant governor's office a law enforcement entity when we have the Arkansas state police this statute twelve eight one oh eight was put in place fifty years ago. In order to provide for continuity of government. And I would just ask that this amendment be voted down because it is not necessary. It is not necessary according to lieutenant governor it's not necessary according to the state police. And it will only add more money to the budget and state of Arkansas with that I'll be happy to answer any questions. I guess I'll start I've got a question and. So if this and if security detail has been built into the State Police budget but it's not been utilized since when Rockefeller was our lieutenant governor. And. Then can you or any anyone answer this baby help me understand how and they're not gonna at the state police is not gonna have to ask for an increase because my understanding that this is costing around six hundred and fifty thousand dollars because we're pulling for officers out of their agency to do this and so if this hasn't been utilized in decades I think I'm trying to understand how this will be an increase in their budget because I imagine they'll have to replace those officers. And so I just like some clarity on that. Thank you Senator for that in again and that's why I thought it was important to hand out the these numbers the. State police projected if expanded perhaps maybe where you're getting that six hundred fifty thousand dollar number at all of these positions are positions. Again I have spoken to state police a number of times about this because I certainly I do not want to put any extra strain on our state police but at. I have been assured that our state police I have they've got a troop school right now they've got a a troop school coming up and that they are prepared. And that this is not at as some have been rumored to have said this is not pulling officers off the street in Macon are. State less safe because the law on the books as they have been prepared to implement and are implementing currently is that they provide for this detail I can't answer for the state police but I've they it is man made very clear to me that this is not. They're not asking for new money and if you all have been told that they are asking for new money or that this is going to cost six hundred fifty thousand dollars and that's the cost of having a trooper and I think that when you look at at the break down state police you say that it's a Quitman it's salary it's ammo it's protective gear its phones it's D. I. S. it's fuels its office supplies travel all of those things are the cost of having one of our at. The troopers it is not. An additional cost because the lieutenant governor. Has security detail and again I want to reiterate that that security detail if not used by me in my official capacity as lieutenant governor is available. Those troopers can do other jobs the two personnel that have been. And this amendment cannot be used for anything that. And do we have someone from state police here that can respond to that the. Okay thank you. And a representative gene you are recognized for a question. Thank you madam chair the. I'm over here and if the. Madam chair may give me a little leeway I've got several questions to ask used to give me up to speed because of. How many troopers. Do you have of it in your detail. Protecting you. Well right now at Mr chairman there are. Four troopers however these are troopers that are on temporary assignment of the cause of this conversation in this. Threat they have not been able to advertise for these positions and so are the troopers that are currently assigned. R. at someone doing double duty because some of them work you know they all work in other parts of the state police organization and whether it's in internal affairs whether it's in training are these are troopers that accepted a temporary assignment until. They were able to advertise for these permanent positions. If I you just give me one U. only quit asking questions because I got a series of. And I just because I want to ask every time for permission you just stop me would you thank you for enough of on the overtime do you know how much overtime and I know we're early in your administration how much over overtime or it is it costs the state for the strippers. I don't know the answer to that but I know my schedule and I have I would ask that and. I can't imagine and that's part of why they have a certain number of troopers assigned is to ensure that there's not at overtime or it's very limited but if again that's outside of my scope but I have a as someone who's been in law enforcement prosecutors the Attorney General. Having worked with security detail having worked with executive protection at the governor's office. At disclosing the schedules of these individuals increases. The threat risk. I am only on the out of state trips if it does would one trooper two troopers go with you. Well that all of those decisions are left up to the discretion of the state police. Because all in all only as state trips where I was. In my capacity as lieutenant governor I if my husband and I are fortunate enough for it to rain in the summer and were able to take our daughter on it as a vacation then I would not have a security detail I'm come out when you go on an official trip out of state yeah and I. Airman that decision would be made by the state police based on their assessment okay so there is nothing that you could. Of demand or request. Okay you're you're going to just take the State Police is of guidance on all this is that correct that's correct and that's and again having had a security detail at that turning general's office I there were times where there there may have been you know a crowd of ten thousand or we may have received it at a number of. And I realized I think we're with Leslie over there stand thousand people it may be added you know any number of things whether it's an. The gathering in north Arkansas electric cooperatives or it might be a razorback game more than it would depend on the number of threats it would depend on what they determine as law enforcement it would not be. No this is not a decision that I make as the Attorney General I don't make his Attorney General I don't make it is that I won't make as a lieutenant governor all right what about out of country travel official travel. Well again the same scenario you think the state police will make an assessment I am an and one could go with you or not or. Yes hello C. B. there well that would be and again left up to the state police I don't think that there's you know any. Out of country travel. On my agenda at this time that I'm aware of unless you know I have won a trip. That I'm not aware of but Well it and I'm assuming all these out of state and I am out of country if they do do go with you I think that would lead to significant over time but that would be the state police the judgment is what you're telling me well when you go home at night and they pick you up in the morning does a state police car come get you because I'm I'm trying to get educated on this sure and because I've I've I've seen most lieutenant governors in the thirteen years I've been here pretty much rather sales to work of so I what's the policy there because I do not know sure. And I'm and I appreciate the questions and that's why I attempted to reach out to you a number of times because I stated on the on set That it is important when you're talking about the personal security that I'm gonna be very limited and how much I want to disclose just as I know that the governor or anyone else who receives the sort of France wants to disclose German so I have I have offered through the sponsor and three others that I've reached out to members of the General Assembly that I will take the time to visit with me that I've offered tips to share this sort of information with them at I'm not by any stretch trying to be. Cagey that again because we're talking about the specific issue of security. I am going to be very limited as to. There's no set schedule at that I can give you all. Thanks. Man I'm I'm assuming the next question in this will be my last of. Troopers overnight at your house I'm I'm some of soon will get the same answer. You are going to get the same answer and again representative I understand I I apologize I had am I reach out to a number times hoping that we can visit about this but I think it's you know. I am. There it's very difficult for me to answer specific questions without. Answering questions not. That would increase any potential. Correct that I have received or could receive okay thank you for your responses madam chair thank you. Thank you and Senator Dismang you're recognized for a question so my question is just really on so I mean I'm trying to stand the balance that you may have answered a little bit we're talking about vacation so it's for when you're at work or working I think is the the goal from what I understand because there's no difference between going on a trip to Florida your physical pass the England cricket of Florida with your family on vacation when the safety risk would be the same on both scenarios because there's no limit at least I would think they were but you know we're about to the end of session I hope I hope we get to pull this trigger on April seventh you know when your duties you know will cease at that point is presiding over the Senate hopefully for as long as we don't have a special session anytime the near future I mean I assume that means at that point that you will going to relinquish the need for. Security at when we're when we're not in session I mean essentially I mean there's. In your official capacity and what and what you do will and whenever we get out of session. That kind of the thought of the theory. Well senator I have let me address your first. Comment with regard to me going to Florida for an lieutenant governors meeting versus me going to or on vacation the difference and what the security officers and again having **** had a security detail and work very closely with them as well as having been on governor staff in the past. And working with executive protection during my career. The difference is that the officers in this instance now state police would determine. They would look and say there's a reasonable expectation that people would know that there would be a gathering of lieutenant governors whether it's in Washington DC when somebody sees that there is a lieutenant governors meeting there is a reasonable expectation that I would be there. However if. It were to rein in June and my husband was not able to be on the farm and we were able to last minute take a trip and get and our personal vehicle and drive and stay at a friend's house in Florida there is not a reasonable expectation. That I would be there at that time those are the sort of things that the law enforcement officers make that determination of whether there's a reasonable expectation and that's why I'm on those official trips. In the past when I was Attorney General. And now so ten governor they would reach the conclusion that yes. Yeah and that's what I'm saying there's not a reasonable expectation that you're going to be anywhere when we're out of session you know actually it the reason why expectation is that you're here to preside over the Senate that's the capacity that's I mean that that's that's your job function in circuit at that's why I saw the similarities between eating even with your response and your your official capacity right now in your there's an expectation that you here I completely understand that when we're out of session you mean if you don't show up in it's up to you right when you come and go and what you do you do not have set hours as attended governor's opposed baby other constitutional officers okay in the mount really my last questions I don't understand is that if I if I may I would just like to go on the record that just adds a. When you and your colleagues are not here in session and when you all are not coming to meetings. Just because you're not here. Does not mean that you are not Senator Jonathan Dismang I mean that you are not represented wouldn't and so. I am the lieutenant governor of the state of Arkansas three sixty five twenty four seven completely agree that you are on vacation also which is the place that you wouldn't take them and that's so I I mean that that's read I thought I saw parallels I guess there's not but on the suburbans I don't guess we have anyone state police what is that means there's an eighty seven thousand dollars suburban. That is dedicated to you and then below that it says for a S. B. S. U. V.'s complete forty three K. press to be a hundred seven two thousand I don't know what that means you know what that means well that is at each trooper each is assigned a vehicle. Okay and so that so there's those vehicles those for the vehicles are would be assigned if they. If there were four troopers assigned to this detail at well you have a suburban that is being used I was part of the executive protection fleets already that we are using this is not a new suburban these are not new expenses are these are not new vehicles but this is if they had to purchase new vehicles this is not so the new suburban the suburban. So they each have a car to drive to be able to get to the suburban. And then they use a suburban I guess I'm confused but that's okay we probably talk off line on acts I didn't understand but the bottom and nothing in. The proposed amendment Senator that provides for anything for law enforcement officer to do his or her job other than show up whether that's and get in my personal vehicle with me whether that's bring their personal weapon whether that spend their personal money in order to have a bullet proof vest protect themselves as well as provide necessary security and so. And I I can't reiterate enough to you all that these state police troopers would be available to do other duties when they're not being used. In my capacity as lieutenant governor but because we're talking about security and I realize that this is something that I have a decade or more experience in that others in this room do not and I have a decade or more experience in hiring. And overseen law enforcement officers and working very closely with them. That. It. Speaking about security increases the security. The need for it. Okay thank you. Senator Rapert you're recognized thank you and I don't know how much of the question I have for lieutenant governor I think we need the state police here maybe to testify to this to some extent. Part of the discussion I'm hearing is whether or not you should have security. And we have a law that says you should and obviously as centers representatives we have the authority to. Follow bill that would change at law and take this security away. But I'd like to hear more from the state police because if for providing security and I'm I could vote to not provide security I'm sorry but that's in the different discussion to me. If for war provide security. It seems that the state police would be the most. Qualified to do that. I do understand why you can't in a public meeting disclose all the details about security. But I'd like to hear from the state police whether or not they're going to cut their budget and cut their spending when we relieve them of this duty in an placed it within your budget because otherwise we're just spend our money twice. Would you agree so Sir Payton at that's a good question the reality is as previous testimony of said this the state police has moved people from other full time positions into this role which they have not backed field at this time so when we have a concern what were they doing beforehand and I'm I know that they're working hard but the reality is those positions that they were doing ultimately have to be back till from someone off the streets so to say they would cut their budget I certainly hope not I would hope that we would end up with more officers on the streets doing what a state police and I sympathize with that but I I saw the Facebook post about a year ago how they bought new eighty thousand dollars suburbans to run up and down the road unmarked and give seat belt tickets serve people on their cell phone you know so and I park every day in front of a forty thousand dollar Durango that the Senate owns the hardly ever moves other parking spot I don't know what it's used for so I mean I understand that I'd like to hear from the state police. The this is gonna make a difference otherwise we're just spending a quarter million dollars and I was told earlier outside our budget was and that we. No need to water nickels and dimes so. Representable in you're recognized thank you senator perhaps I can help you I'm I'm familiar with the Senate please operation I was very close to the executive security guard in the way it's always worked with the laws of their own it's the state police responsibility the only difference between those to represent you see here in the capital without on the highway is these troopers are in plain cars with planes and that's about the only difference all all the rest of the funding the money cost and everything is basically the same I can't speak to of overtime hours because back when I was trooper within were about over time but that's a whole different subject but basically the four troopers that sign regardless where they come from in within the state police they are full fledged troopers and they operate the only difference again is applying car on the plane you for the rest of their equipment and everything to my knowledge at least it has been a thank you still is the sign. And they have had historically poor of since nineteen seventy three the responsibility of the governor's office and the lieutenant governor's office however since when Paul or make governor elect Phil of winter Paul was governor in the AM not used in the and her and the lieutenant governor's office hope that helps you thank. Senator Rapert you're recognized it did help and I appreciate that but so when you say they've had on but they didn't use of what did they do. I can answer that Amendment that's an internal whenever I'm sure whenever the lieutenant governor at the time of the decision not to use the troopers that they were placed on they went back and Unifor more than likely and went out on the road somewhere okay they were used in headquarters thank you thank you Mr chairman. Mr chairman if I may while lieutenant governor Rockefeller. Was perhaps the last lieutenant governor to use. State police on as a regular detail at other lieutenant governors. My all of my male predecessors perhaps at different times. Used them sporadically or had them available and it has never not been available or threatened to not be available until recently and until I became lieutenant governor. I was informed yesterday by the sponsor that lieutenant governor Rockefeller. Paid for some of that security detail himself I'm not in a position to do so. So I would simply ask that. I'll be afforded. The same state police. Protection as all of my predecessors had in the past. I don't see a need to change this law. And to change the slaughter special language change in the law through special language. Is a dangerous precedent to begin with but it certainly. Not something that I would hope the body would get the habit of the particularly low spin on the books for fifty years. Okay I see no other questions Senator has or you like to close at this time I would think thank you members for your time I have I value and in respect Arlington the governor elige in fact I did not do that I would have met with her five times since since January on this very subject. Reshape her sincerely held concerns over security and safety which is the very reason that that I'm that I'm sitting here right now it would be easy just remove security to help detail without adding positions I think the position we're in since it's been thirty years since someone is use this detail consistently of either we're gonna remove officers off the street which I do not want to do or re increase spending I chose to increase spending and now maybe that's something that everyone would agree with but a there certainly operational expenses there's operational budget and the lieutenant governor's office I thought through that before filed this bill I'm there are there are others a current budget used for operational expenses I use the exact same language at the house and Senate have for any of our security detail that we chose to have so offering the very similar except for more money more positions to to the one lieutenant governor and with that again I appreciate the the the situation that we're in worked diligently on this since January and I would ask and I will close with the motion do pass. And we have a motion to have a second. Thank you and any discussion. All those in favor please say aye. Impose no. Motion carries. All right madam chairman we're moving on to item key. I'm sorry item F. item F. is the governor's letter for the Department education generated three different amendments. Item F. one this is an amendment to house bill eleven seventy for the department of ed elementary and secondary Education Public School Fund the amendment will eliminate four positions and decrease the regular salaries and matching appropriation by a hundred ninety six thousand dollars. Item F. two is an amendment to SB thirty six for the department of ed public school academic facilities and transportation appropriation amendment will increase the appropriation by one position and seventy six thousand dollars in regular salaries and matching appropriation. I am F. three is an amendment by S. B. R. four SB seventy six for the department of education's shared services state operations and the professional licensure standards board. The shared services appropriation will increase by two positions and three hundred and fifty eight thousand dollars and regular salaries and matching appropriation. The state operations appropriation will decrease by seven positions and regular salaries and match will decrease by two hundred ninety one thousand dollars the professional licensure and standards board appropriation is decreasing by one position as well and we'll see a decrease in regular salaries and match sixty two thousand dollars no matter chairman we have with your permission to hand out for an alternative Amendment by the chair by Senator Davis it is a mirror image of the of the original amendment the only thing that changes is for F. three. There is there was an error in the original amendments are in the original letter. Based upon action taken by this committee yesterday for the chief of staff of the department of education and so what's all that's happening here in this alternative amendment is changing the grade for the chief of staff for the department of education from a SCO three to an S. C. O. four. The manager man what would you do if you could pick up all three pieces it's you just need to suspend the rules to take up the alternative amendments four F. three. Okay I move we take up we suspend the rules to take up the alternative amendment two U. S. three I have a second. Any discussion all those in favor please say aye. Opposed no motion carries. Okay M.. At this time I need a motion to approve all three and F. one F. two and F. three. With the alternative and Amendment. Yes you're recognized god you're recognized this Mario can you come forward. Page home page nineteen. There's restaurants muddy that allow them to the secretary of education great Five. And then on page twenty one. There's a reference to the Commissioner of Education. Well. Which do we have that on there we have a over there or wherever we have the secretary of education or to have a commissioner of education and. Yes Sir is written currently we have secretary of education. So what what what is a server at the same grade for. Mr Rubin Mister Rogers back here at the time that they basically have both at this moment in time. Correct I just want education so currently we have both we have a secretary of education and commission of education secretary of education the second secretary of education is serving in both roles. How many sellers you drawn to sellers no Sir ages getting paid as a secretary who has a son tile whose in the Commissioner of Education understand. But I didn't understand why we have a lot of the element one for the Department of for the secretary of education and we're still current another them over in the commissioners slaw that position is the Commissioner educations position and daisy and the secretary's position is in the other section for the secretary's office shared services yes I. So what what we have to position. I mean. Reuters or Department colors of this one I was restored through the Department commerce I would listen forestry of one listed in the bank. That is. Because the way that its current upper places and still in law whether it needs to be changed. I don't know if I can check for the governing law for you to live thank you thank you ma'am. Representative gene you're recognized thank you. Manager Mister Rogers I'm over here. one I'm a little confused but that's not unusual. the Secretary Alito leave a is. When you make around two hundred fifty thousand that might grow recollection. Correct okay and we're we're raising the maximum. On the three note FOR S. C. O. three O. four two. Well I guess you're raising whole level the minimum and the maximum is that on the that on his salary no Sir that's The New the chief of staff position as the chief of staff position yes okay so is currently a SCO three. When I'm at when we made the recommendation we made an error and that it should have been a skill for an automated school so you make the air so we're correcting your air yes okay and what else are we doing. A this is this far as raises. The the summary this is the same summary that we did went over was that Tuesday with the the gospel and the change positions yes those same positions well I had to leave early Fite adding at and I missed a lot of this so. If you don't mind. Okay you may be the one to do this yes Sir representative Jane yesterday personnel committee we approved ten pole positions for the department of education one of those positions included in a C. O. for chief of staff for the department of education those positions only you're going to use this to the end of this year Department education gave up twenty positions to get those ten positions of that's what they sacrifice in the governor's letter that originally came over here they had the chief of staff graded out at SCO three versus SCO or because I thought they were going to pay over the maximum we made the decision to go ahead and make the position SCO for and so we're still doing just the same to the staff position that we approved yesterday plus nine other positions that they would have these other positions they're gonna be submitted into the year. Well the twenty positions that give up offensive render media immediately yes Sir okay yes all right thank you. Representative but you're recognized let me follow up on my question because it falls well below one lane representative James. Own again in the enacting Senate bill seventy six is closed. A three for sale hello four but it is my understanding that the cheapest I have actually been functioning in the Commissioner of Education role but what's what's going on down there. Who's where and what's what. Okay I think the chief of staff position is currently recording files for who is serving as his chief of staff who replaced Jean Lockwood who was an S. C. O. one what secretary Lisa has asked is that we change that positions and as CEO for use the position of the Commissioner of that as a commissioner. Who's in the commissioners who whose name is unknown to the call that line up. To the commissioner to run now I'm sorry I'm I'm. The. I would Secretary levers is that we're talking about I'm come with questions are so he's. Okay we destroying the I think the position L. or in or get his title changed or remained low because it looks like we're praying him twice. If you gonna love them you go organization an appropriation in both of sure is he do you have a mobile phone because we're representative when when I think happened as I previously critter of education did not have a doctorate in education and in some of statutes wasn't not required the education department have a doctor serving in that capacity so the Commissioner of Education position remained in education's appropriation act now you that secretary of labor who does meet all those requirements and he serving in both capacities correct me if I'm wrong. What we would do with bro we'll skews me we're now we're back to ten years ago when we didn't have a doctor down then we will lead one now you said he has won the L. so he can be call secretary of education. Yes I mean he is the secretary of education and any he is serving in those dual roles of the secretary and commissioner but he is not in that commissioner position that you're looking at he's not in that that position right now is currently downgraded and is being utilized by a deputy commissioner. We'll we'll follow up on this conversation Loures late thank you. Senator Hammer you're recognized. Would you guys do me a favor just tell me what you're asking for please. It It is there in this letter what we're requesting is that the ten positions that were approved a personnel committee yesterday be continued and improved for the next financial and that is that includes the SCO for chief of staff position plus nine other positions okay and those positions are to be used for what purpose K. FOR ministration of the arms act. And then recommend. This. To leave the letter department of Education Committee resources so those ten positions will be used to support our school choice operations save school operations scholarship accounts also as I can mention our chief legal counsel and chief of staff and then we also have some program director positions which will support and expand the scholarship accounts and our coordinator positions which will run data reporting and analyze data. And I'm asking means and we are surrendering twenty positions for those ten position so what's what's the net out. Minus ten positions. Mine fifteenth session right but I mean what's the dollar net out we're trading positions but are those currently funded positions vacant positions. Are we what's the what's the increased costs going to be. I'm at the financed or I get it so we're absorbing all that we're not asking for any additional funds to to test that's that's the point to make you're not asking for any additional funds you're just rear you just rearranging the cards so that you can re position these people or position these people but but the net cost out is not anymore than what's already there is that is that fair is that right thank you Sir I would agree with that okay thank you. I see no other questions we have a motion to approve. With the alternative amendment. The. Motion and a second any discussion all those in favor please say aye. Opposed no motion carries. Thank IBM G. insurance item Jeez governor's letter for the department of ed division of higher education The Amendment was read one additional DG program specialist at a grade GS O. nine and increase the regular salaries and match by a seventy thousand dollars. Do we have any questions on this. Scene and we have a motion to approve. Motion the second. Second any discussion all those in favor please say aye. Opposed no. Motion carries. Committee chairman last items I'm H. this is a governor's letter for the department of public safety that will request by one existing position to chief fiscal officer but will not increase the total number of authorized positions the amendment will also add twelve point one million dollars regular salaries matching overtime operating expenses professional fees to expand the certified troops school cover overtime paid out due to staffing shortages. We have any questions on item H.. Scene and we have a motion to approve. Second. Second all right any discussion all those in favor please say aye. Oppose nail motion carries. All right there's no other business this meeting is adjourned.