House Education Committee
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Bills discussed (8)
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HB1032
· 2 mentions in chapter, transcript
Matched: “HB1032”
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Pre-2017 bill | ||
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HB1447
· 1 mention in transcript
Matched: “…t a special order for next Tuesday, one week from today, on House Bill 1447. So, members, if you'll note that on your agenda, 1447, spe…”
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Pre-2017 bill | ||
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HB1578
· 1 mention in chapter
Matched: “HB1578”
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Pre-2017 bill | ||
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HB1595
· 1 mention in chapter
Matched: “HB1595”
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Pre-2017 bill | ||
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HB1821
· 1 mention in chapter
Matched: “HB1821”
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Pre-2017 bill | ||
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HB1924
· 1 mention in chapter
Matched: “HB1924”
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Pre-2017 bill | ||
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SB306
· 1 mention in chapter
Matched: “SB306”
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Pre-2017 bill | ||
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SB344
· 1 mention in chapter
Matched: “SB344”
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Pre-2017 bill |
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Hudson's reminded me, without objection, we are going to set a special order for next Tuesday, one week from today, on House Bill 1447. So, members, if you'll note that on your agenda, 1447, special order, next Tuesday. Thank you for reminding me, Mr. Hudson. Members, we're going to start with House Bill 1032. Representative Altus
you're recognized to present your bill
Representative Denny Altes
Unverified
0:31
Thank you Madam Chair this is a good government bill it does absolutely nothing it has permissive language so that the Bible is being taught in most of our public schools now but when I filed the bill the National Council on Bible Curriculum and public schools contacted me and asked to amend my bill. So what the bill does is it allows two or three different curriculums,
and the biggest thing the bill does is it will try to keep us out of a lawsuit. The curriculum is structured in such a way that if the teachers will stay within this framework, then we won't be sued. The curriculum is used in 2,000 high schools, 565 districts in 38 states. Texas has 61 districts, Alabama 26, Georgia 37, Louisiana 32 around us. In Arkansas, we have Berryville, Conway, Green Forest, Texarkana, Hebrew Springs, Centerpoint, and Clarendon School District have all used this same curriculum.
Over 370,000 students have taken this course in the last 15 years, and over 500 school board attorneys have approved this curriculum for their districts. Here are some of the books that are used. And, like I said, the biggest thing it does is provide the structure, the framework, so that the teachers don't get outside that, and so we don't get involved in a lawsuit. So this will help us keep out of a lawsuit. I've spoken with Dr. Kimbrell about this, and he says they're neutral on it.
And he said he'd be glad to answer questions if you
want him to. Appreciate a good vote. Okay. You've heard the explanation of the bill from Representative Altus. Questions from the committee?
Representative Tim Summers
Unverified
2:30
Representative Summers, you're recognized. Madam Chair, I
have motion at the appropriate time. Questions from members? Representative
Altus, I have several. Okay. You talked about that it's being taught in most public schools. Are you telling me that Bible is being taught in the majority of our public schools today in Arkansas?
Representative Denny Altes
Unverified
2:51
And from – Dr. Kimberl could probably help us with this,
but from talking to social studies teachers in the seventh grade, most all of them teach portions of the course involved in the Bible.
Dr. Kimberl, could you help clarify? Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 17
3:10
Currently, we have two districts who – Would you identify yourself? I'm sorry. Yes, ma'am. Madam Chair, I'm Tom Kimberl, Commissioner of Education. Currently, we have approval from two school districts that are teaching this Bible course, Cabot and Little Rock.
And Little Rock is actually under the process of reevaluating their curriculum approval process, and Gravit is in the process of getting those approvals. I'm not sure of any others. They may be teaching it, but it's not on our approved curriculum list, which would be required. So the districts that were mentioned earlier, I can't vouch for their teaching the Bible as a course being approved by the Department of Education. And any course that is taught in a public school for
Speaker 18
3:55
credit towards graduation has to have the Department of Education's approval.
A follow-up. When Representative Alta has talked about the social studies teachers, Is that part of our state-approved curriculum to teach parts of the Bible, Dr. Kimbrell?
Speaker 18
4:12
Madam Chair, I can't answer that. I don't know off the top of my head what
Speaker 22
4:18
that curriculum is in the social studies
curriculum. I apologize. Okay. Another question for you, Representative Aldis. Who will teach this class?
Representative Denny Altes
Unverified
4:32
This is all permissive language. If the Department of Education wants to adopt this curriculum, and if the school districts want to adopt this curriculum, then the school districts will, I don't know, I guess ask for volunteers, and the bill outlines how these teachers will be selected. Dr. Kimberl, do you have
any follow-up for that about under licensure, who would be qualified to teach such a course?
Speaker 18
5:03
According to this particular piece of legislation, the personnel assigned would be left up to the
Speaker 17
5:09
local district as long as they're licensed to teach in the state of Arkansas. So we would have a specific statute that just says personnel that are licensed to teach in Arkansas would be permitted to teach this. There are some other parameters there also in the section that requires that they're assigned based on – it can't be assigned based upon some religious test, proficient of faith, or lack of faith,
or prior or present religious affiliation or lack of affiliation, or criteria involving particular beliefs or lack of beliefs. Currently, I think it is in the district that I'm most familiar with where my children attend school, it is taught by the
Social Studies Department. Okay, so it's your testimony, Dr. Kimbrell, that we have
two districts currently that are taking advantage of teaching Bible as part of their curriculum.
Speaker 18
6:05
Yes, ma'am. Two districts that we have had approval processes completed, and from what I
Speaker 17
6:11
understand, Cabot is teaching it. Little Rock has in the past. They let their approval process lapse, and they're in the process of redoing that, and then Gravit is in the midst of their first approval process for a course in the
study of the Bible. Dr. Kimbrell, do I remember something about Gravit having a court case
some years ago about teaching or having Bible stories being taught in the school?
Speaker 17
6:38
I think there was a court case in which in the elementary school there was brought to suit a court case, but I don't
remember the particulars. Okay. Any other questions from members? Yes, Representative Carnine.
Representative Les "Skip" Carnine
Unverified
6:53
I understand, obviously, there is currently a process in place. Is that true? Yes, sir. There is a process for course approvals. Okay. And help me understand what is different about this request for a law to do what obviously some are already doing.
What is the reason we're passing this law, or at least the request to pass this law, and that we're already having there is a process that allows school districts to do this very same thing? I'm having, I guess, a little
trouble trying to understand the need. I'm not anti. I just want to know the need. Representative Altus, could
you respond to that question, please, sir?
Representative Denny Altes
Unverified
7:44
Yes. This bill is not needed because we're teaching the Bible now. However, if the Department of Education adopts this curriculum and if the school districts adopt this curriculum, then the teachers will have a framework or a structure to operate within, and that will hopefully eliminate any lawsuits that we get. Like I said earlier, there's over 500 school board attorneys have approved this curriculum for their schools.
Representative Les "Skip" Carnine
Unverified
8:18
Okay, and I understand that. My question is, are you saying then that the current process for approval of the current program does not require the framework, some framework that assures us that it's obviously beyond the establishment of religion? Do you see what I'm trying to say? Dr. Kimbrell, I think that's probably the question directly to you.
Is there not already a framework that's available? Yes, sir. We
Speaker 17
8:53
believe there is a framework, and that's why we already have school districts that have gone through the process of submitting their curriculum for approval. We have standards that are required under those frameworks in the selection of materials and et cetera. So, yes, sir, that approval
Representative Les "Skip" Carnine
Unverified
9:12
process is in place. Okay. This one follow-up. If we go ahead and pass this, will this supersede the current process?
Speaker 17
9:24
today is in being this won't change anything we're doing, in our opinion, currently. Okay. I'm still
Representative Les "Skip" Carnine
Unverified
9:33
having, I guess, a little trouble trying to decide whether, in fact, this is a need or whether the process already exists. I mean, I'm, I guess, a little bit ambivalent about it.
Dr. Kimbrell, earlier you said that, or maybe Representative Alda said, the department is neutral on this bill. You're not supporting, nor are you opposing? MR. That is correct, Madam Chair. MS. Representative Webb. MS.
Representative Kathy Webb
Unverified
10:09
Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Representative Altus. And this is the first time I've had an opportunity to be on education, so perhaps there are some things that I should have known about this before today, and I apologize for being a
little bit behind on this. I want to ask you a specific question. if this is going to be an academic course and there is a wide variety of opinion about interpretation of almost everything that's in the Bible and say we're going to talk about the creation so is creationism for lack of a better word is that going to be taught is this a literal translation
And again, I apologize, because if elective Bible courses are already being taught, perhaps that's a question I should have already known, and maybe
Representative Denny Altes
Unverified
11:05
it should be addressed to Dr. Kimbrell. I'll attempt that.
Page 2, line 20, following, talks about if an academic study of the Bible course is offered by a public school, then it shall be taught in an objective, non-devotional manner with no attempt made to indoctrinate students as to either the truth or falsity of the biblical materials or texts
or other religious or cultural traditions. It shall not include teachings of religious doctrine or sectarian interpretation of the Bible or of texts or other religious or cultural traditions. And three, not disparage or encourage a commitment to a set of religious beliefs. So we have a framework here, a structure, that the teacher is supposed to teach it within. and it can't be taught as religion.
Representative Kathy Webb
Unverified
11:57
Thank you, Representative Althus. And I guess I just still have a lot of concerns and I just don't quite understand how that can be done. But I'll try to do a little bit more research and see what the current offerings
Representative Donna Hutchinson
Unverified
12:16
out there are. Thank you. Representative Hutchinson. Thank you, Madam Chair. Currently, any school that wishes to give a course on the Bible and the part it plays in our history as a nation,
they can use this book, though, can't they, without us passing this law. And so I've been in education long enough to know that a lot of book publishers like to have laws passed to require their books just so they can sell more books. so um i this is not the i'm sorry
Representative Denny Altes
Unverified
12:49
to interrupt but this uh curriculum is not mentioned anywhere in the bible in
the in the book i mean in the bill i'm sorry it's not it's not mentioned in
the bill and uh there are several that that meet
Representative Donna Hutchinson
Unverified
13:06
this curriculum requirements okay um then what are you doing again what does the bill
Representative Denny Altes
Unverified
13:13
do i'm still confused then what i'm sorry hopefully Hopefully, the Education Department will adopt a curriculum, which may be this curriculum. It may be another curriculum that will set framework or guidelines to operate within.
And that way, we won't be afraid of a lawsuit, hopefully. I guess
Speaker 16
13:46
Chairman. Yes. Let me kind of respond to
Speaker 17
13:48
that Yes ma'am In elective courses We develop content standards And frameworks for learning Student learning objectives For all core content courses English language arts Social studies, etc Bible being taught as an elective
Is not within that We don't develop the frameworks Or the student learning expectations That's why there is a separate approval process For a district to be able to say, we would like to offer this elective course for our students. Here's what we would like to have as the content in that course to be taught. And that has to go through a process with people from out in the field teaching and our department employees to determine whether that content is relevant, is not going to get into the secretary issues and the belief and faith issues
to ensure that this isn't taught as a religious approach to the Bible, but as an approach to literature, history, et cetera. So we have that in place. We don't adopt a curriculum for these elected courses. So we wouldn't be adopting this curriculum or some other curriculum. We would depend upon the district to determine which curriculum they want to teach. Then we have to
Speaker 69
15:00
approve it. Have we had any problems legally with this approach? I'm
Speaker 17
15:05
not aware of any legal problems we've had with this approach, ma'am.
All right, thank you. Other questions from members? Just a couple of more
things. Wrestling developers, you talked about the department adopting a curriculum, but I just heard Dr. Kimbrell talk about that they do not adopt frameworks or curriculum for those electives. So could we have some clarification? Is that in your bill I'm looking here, that the department will adopt a curriculum in Bible?
Representative Denny Altes
Unverified
15:40
I can read part of the bill to you on page 2, line 5. It says, a public school district that elects to offer an academic study of the Bible shall implement the course in accordance with the Arkansas Constitution and the United States Constitution, including the manner in which the course is taught in the classroom and the assignment of the school district personnel. That's basically
all it says. Okay, I'm just going back to the comment you made about the department and adopting the curriculum.
So that would not happen, I understand, from Dr. Kimbrell. That's not possible. They would not be adopting a curriculum in Bible. Okay, my next question has to do with other religious books. And this may be for Dr. Kimbrell or your attorney or someone in the room that would help to understand the legal implications of this. If we were to pass this and it became law, Would we also understand that there could be other groups that would
want their religious books taught in the public school?
Dr. Kimber, could you address that? I think
Speaker 17
16:49
whether this is passed or not, that option is out there, because what we try to do at the Department of Education is ensure that there is no religious, faith-based approach to teaching of these particular types of materials, whether it's the Bible or some other religious document. but it's taught in a fashion of history or literacy. So to my knowledge, we've not been approached by any other group or any district to teach anything.
We just know that we've got these few
districts that have done this. But is it your understanding that if in these two districts that are doing it, if other religious groups came forward that did not want the Bible taught but they perhaps wanted their own religious book taught, then those districts would have to give them the same accommodation that they give the people that
Speaker 17
17:36
want the Bible taught? It would be the district's responsibility to submit the required documentation and curriculum frameworks around what would have to be taught and then approved by the Department of Education.
From the same perspective, we would look
at the teaching of the Bible. Okay. And then my next question, Representative Altus, has to do on page 1, line 31, when it says academic study of the Bible, and you have Bible capitalized, would you specify which version or which Bible that we're talking about? I think that's up to the district. So the district board of directors would make a decision on which Bible is being taught?
Representative Denny Altes
Unverified
18:19
Yes, and then they would adopt a curriculum, and then they would submit that curriculum the way I understand it to the Board of Education. Okay, thank you. You'll notice the next line that talks about the Bible's influence on literature, art, music, culture, and politics.
Representative Kathy Webb
Unverified
18:38
Okay, thank you. Representative Webb. Thank you, Madam Chair, and perhaps this question would be directed to you as the chair. Do you know if there's anybody here who's from a district that's currently teaching Bible?
because I would like to know what some of the curriculum content is. Okay. Dr. Kimball, you said
Gravit and? Cabot is currently teaching it. Little Rock has taught it
Speaker 17
19:06
in the past. It is currently not teaching it this year. Gravit is in the process of applying for their curriculum approval.
Anyone in the audience that could represent those districts or could speak to Representative Webb's question?
school boards association are you prepared to speak for that from that question okay all right I'm sorry representative Webb there's no one here Dr. Kimber do you know why Little Rock chose not to no ma'am I do
not know why okay representative Webb are you through
thank you madam chair appreciate it representative Steele thank you
Speaker 90
19:47
madam chair just a quick question uh... dot kimbrough we you mentioned cabot school district in the rest of
Speaker 91
19:53
district what school in little rock is actually teaching courses i don't think there's anyone
Speaker 17
19:58
this year in the past they have but i can't represents the lucky i don't know this particular high schools i just know that the district submitted the request uh... in the past and had course approval to teach the bible as a course i don't know which high school because it came from the district office is an approval They did not teach it this year. They let that course approval lapse. They're in the process of reapplying for that course approval currently.
Speaker 91
20:27
And that course approval, what does that include? Does it include how they teach it? Is there a test? No, there's not any state test. Is
Speaker 17
20:34
there a grade? Oh, yes, they're graded because it is an elective. It's an elective course that would be taught in a high school. How
Speaker 16
20:42
do you get a grade without a test? Well, there's not a state test, sir. State test. No, but there is a test within the course. I would suspect that there would be some kind
Speaker 17
20:51
of assessment. It could be unit assessment, chapter assessment, however they set up that curriculum to be taught.
Speaker 16
20:58
What we have to look at are what are the student
Speaker 91
21:02
learning expectations. Would that assessment be based on how well they remember the contents of the Bible or how closely do they live by
Speaker 17
21:16
it has to be based upon the facts that were
Speaker 91
21:19
presented. Representative Alters, you wanted to say you're shaking. Did you want to answer that? What would the test be on? Would it be on the content or what?
Representative Denny Altes
Unverified
21:30
I haven't taken the course. I don't know. But basically the bill says that it would be studying the Bible and its influence on literature, art, music, culture, and politics. As we all know, the Bible is the oldest, most accurate, most popular history book on the face
Speaker 91
21:47
of the earth. What would the part, then, Dr. Kimbrough, be on politics I'm concerned? I know they had a very unpopular governor in the Bible, but
Speaker 17
21:58
other than that. Representative Steele, I can't answer that, not having that particular, any particular school's content in front of me.
Representative Donna Hutchinson
Unverified
22:06
I don't know. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Representative Hutchinson. Thank you, Madam Chair. Being Native American, I know some schools near reservations teach the particular religion of that tribe, as you said, as an elective, just so they will understand where they are, and it explains a lot why they do what they do. So I suspect that's why you are asking for this.
do they have to have parental permission to do this are you asking me Senator Altus
do the students have to have parental permission before they can take this class
Representative Denny Altes
Unverified
22:57
I'm sure most parents approve most of their course work their schedule Dr. Kimbrell, is there a requirement?
Speaker 17
23:08
No, ma'am. We don't require, unless the district has a policy about prerequisites and et cetera, there's no requirement from the Department of Education as to whether you have to have parental permission to do this or not. Thank you.
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
23:28
Representative Clemmer. Thank you, Madam Chair. are you
Lisa Mcgee
Unverified
23:33
we don't have anyone from higher ed at the end of the table but I guess
I would ask Dr. Kimbrell or excuse me yes representative not Senator Altus sorry if
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
23:46
you know about the courses offered in college in colleges on various religions I'll go first and say, no, ma'am, I do
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
24:04
a community college, we did have classes in Old Testament literature
or the Old Testament as literature. Is there anyone that is available to answer a question along that line? Representative Clemmer, there are representatives from higher
ed in the room, and I welcome them to come to the table if they wish to respond. It might be
Lisa Mcgee
Unverified
24:28
that they would need to be out of the humanities to know that. I
Representative Denny Altes
Unverified
24:35
don't know. Dr. Roebuck should know. She taught at Henderson State for many years. And the last I heard...
Speaker 113
24:41
I teach, too, but we don't necessarily... Dr. Roebuck or I need to one teach probably religion.
Representative Denny Altes
Unverified
24:46
I understand that Henderson State still offers a theology degree. Is that right? No, sir.
They do not. They used to. That's across the ravine. Please do not confuse us.
Mr. Criswell is at the end of the table. Sir, if you would identify yourself for the record, and then if you could respond to the
question if Representative Altus would allow you
Speaker 120
25:15
to. MR. Yes, Madam Chair. Harold Criswell, Deputy Director of the Department of Higher Education. The department does not collect that information. To answer that, I think it would have to be referred to each institution. If it's something the committee would like us to do, we could do a survey, but we don't have that. Okay. I won't make that request. We could
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
25:38
probably go online and figure it out for ourselves by looking at the course catalogs.
I would answer my own question. From my experience, we have had those courses. as well as studies of the Koran and the study of Middle Eastern politics and such. I guess, Representative Altus, my point would be there is a, would you agree that there is a common academic pursuit of religious beliefs in higher ed?
I mean, in those departments that teach literature, it is not uncommon. to find courses on religion or in philosophy or anthropology or whatever department. Somewhere in the humanities, one would likely find a course on the Bible. Well, okay. Thank
Speaker 122
26:36
you. Representative Dickinson. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Representative Jody Dickinson
Unverified
26:48
Senator Altus, I have a concern for the teacher in a class like this that allows for class participation. I foresee that invariably there would be some interpretation and probably some amount of argument back and forth. Even if the teacher says this is not in the guidelines, we can't do this, and stopped it,
I still see that a child could go home to their parents and say, this was said in my class today, my Bible class, which may be entirely contrary to what those parents believe and have attempted to teach their children. Is there possibilities that teachers could get into lawsuits just because of
something that's been said in that class? that's the reason I'm bringing this bill
Representative Denny Altes
Unverified
27:49
so there won't be any lawsuits there's a teacher's manual that's being passed around and then there's two other books that are manuals that are
the framework, the structure to stay within, the guidelines to stay within so there will be none of that discussion and the teacher should be in charge of her classroom and she should be able to guide the discussion I understand that But I believe the Bible.
Representative Jody Dickinson
Unverified
28:19
I read it, and I hope that everybody does. But if you read it with no interpretation, and it's just like any other book, you're still reading it. I don't know what it will get you. But I guess my point is I just don't see how, even with guidelines, how it can be taught without interpretation.
And I just have a concern for
Representative Denny Altes
Unverified
28:58
that. Well, it's been taught in at least seven schools in Arkansas.
And like I read all these other, there's 2,000 schools, did I say? over 370,000 students have taken this course and as far as we know we haven't had a problem we haven't had anybody sued okay thank
Representative Jody Dickinson
Unverified
29:20
you I appreciate that thank you ma'am chair
representative Altus that brings me to another question that one
of my constituents sent to me do you know how many versions of the bible that
there are no ma'am That might be something interesting for us to know, because you just say the Bible, and I'm not sure, my constituent isn't sure which
Speaker 74
29:50
Bible, so we go back to that. Representative Hopper.
Representative Karen S. Hopper
Unverified
29:55
Thank you, Madam Chair. My question is for Dr. Kimbrell, if he could come back to the table. Yes. If that's permissible. Thank you. I couldn't see you from where I am. My question is this, Dr. Kimbrell. Can you elaborate on the state approval process for this offering, i.e., is the real weight of this and its content at the State Department, or is it a local decision?
Speaker 17
30:28
It's a combination of both, really, Representative Hopper. The local district has to outline what it is that they would be using this piece of literature to teach. What is the content? What's the history? What's the literature part? That would then be put into a framework of these are the things we expect students to know and learn from this study of this literature piece. Then it would have to go through an approval process where we would take other teachers and our staff to look at it
to ensure that it is meeting the content standards and it's not going off into some area of theology or belief or faith. So it's looking at what do you expect to teach, what do you expect students to know, and then that approval process would be yes or no, maybe this piece needs to come out, maybe this is bordering on trying to teach faith instead of the factual part
Representative Karen S. Hopper
Unverified
31:28
of the Bible. So am I correct that the department then is not solely, but the burden with regard to, I guess, burden or weight outcomes is more of the department?
It is the local school district that has a little more control of content? Am I right or
Speaker 17
31:49
wrong there? You're right in that the content would be submitted to us, So they have to decide how much content, what is the content, and what is the purpose. And then we as the department have to look at what are the content standards and what are the purposes and make that decision that we're not getting into an area that we could find ourselves in trouble and ensure that that's not happening.
Now, we can't be there every day when the class is taught. That's where I'm going, yes. All we can do is say here's the approved content and the purpose of that content, but we can't be there to ensure how it's taught, what else is said in the
Representative Karen S. Hopper
Unverified
32:30
classroom, et cetera. That's a local decision. And a follow-up, if I might. And that being you've set the perimeters, but what happens if you're outside of those perimeters?
What's the State Department's role there, if any?
Speaker 17
32:47
Well, the role would be if we received complaints that this was being brought to the district administration, that they're outside of these parameters, then we would go in and begin to investigate what's actually being said, what's being taught. It would be a partnership between us and the district administration to ensure that these complaints that
Speaker 46
33:05
we might receive are being addressed. Has that happened previously? Not to my knowledge.
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
33:15
Thank you, Dr. Campbell. Yes, ma'am. I have
Speaker 148
33:22
Mr. Pierce for a question to believe. Thank you, Mr. Chair. After spending half of my
Representative Bobby J. Pierce
Unverified
33:31
life on the school board and going back and looking at what you're trying to do there, Senator, I mean, sorry, Representative, forgive me for that. do you not think that there's a lot of praying going on every morning when the
Speaker 148
33:47
classes start by the teachers okay to this is Bible course or are we just going to take the one Bible we're not gonna let anybody else's you
Representative Bobby J. Pierce
Unverified
34:01
know are you've been asked I'm sorry okay okay would you just kind of update me a little bit on that island down at your old end trying to
Representative Denny Altes
Unverified
34:18
didn't hear you uh it just says the bible and
so this is all permissive language it's up to the districts to decide uh if they want to do this if they don't want to do it they don't have to do it if they do want to
Speaker 153
34:34
do it then they can pick whichever bible they want to it's all
Representative Denny Altes
Unverified
34:38
permissive language but would it just have to be bible studies is that what i'm getting from
this bill Well, I read this a while ago. Page 1, line 31, says the Bible and its influence on literature, art, music, culture, and politics.
And as we all know, the Bible is the oldest, most accurate, most popular history book on the face of
Representative Bobby J. Pierce
Unverified
35:02
the earth. Thank you. So any other religion could come in there and ask for theirs at
Representative Denny Altes
Unverified
35:07
the school board. Is that right or is that wrong?
not according to this so this doesn't tie down a particular curriculum but they're using these parameters there's two or three that are available that would meet these parameters Any other questions of the committee?
Speaker 63
35:26
Representative Hutchinson Alright now I'm confused again I thought we said that since
Representative Donna Hutchinson
Unverified
35:35
the Bible we teach the Bible that means if other religions wanted to come they could follow the same guidelines if the school board accepted it and have their own course. That shows how it influenced history and literature. I'm not speaking for Dr. Kimbrell
Representative Denny Altes
Unverified
35:53
but I think he said something along
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
35:56
those lines. Alright. Thank you. Committee, other questions? Representative Summers.
that motion do pass I consider that motion at the proper time anything else committee anybody in the audience wants to speak against this bill
come to the table please recognize yourself for the record good morning
Representative Kathy Webb
Unverified
36:33
Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of the committee. My name is Rita Sklar, Executive
Rita Sklar
Unverified
36:39
Director of the ACLU. Last time I was here, I got in a bit of trouble with the cottonmouth, so I'm prepared this time. I was a religion major in school, probably something people are surprised to hear. Religious studies was my bachelor's education. I went to graduate school in religious studies as well. And I am, so I consider myself a student of the Bible, probably not as much as many people
in this room, but I think it is an incredibly important book in the history of the world and not to mention that Western culture, literature, just to understand America, American life, our laws our values everything European history American history you really can't understand it without understanding reading the Bible
and I'm talking about the the Jewish Christian Bible of course and I think that a course properly taught would be invaluable to students This
Speaker 113
37:55
is where the but comes. The problem is we
Rita Sklar
Unverified
38:02
have science classes in Arkansas where there are teachers who cannot
refrain from teaching religion instead of science, and we know what I'm talking about. So I think it would be a great strain on small schools who perhaps think they may not get a lot of scrutiny or who may think somehow, I don't know, they don't quite understand the guidelines. I don't know quite how to put this. I think that it would be hard for them to do it in a way that followed the strictures
of the statute. And it would put them in danger of litigation, frankly. I think even though the bill says you can't proselytize, if you can't help yourself from proselytizing in a science class, I don't see how that's not going to happen in a Bible study class. Of course, this couldn't be at anything but a secondary level because the courts have said you can't do this sort of thing with the primary school level because they're not of an age where they can really distinguish between discussion and proselytizing or endorsement.
So we're talking about just high school anyway. So that's our problem with it. I don't think it's unconstitutional on its face, no. I think it's very well written. I just think it would be hard to do and put people in a precarious position. Committee, any questions? Seeing none,
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
39:38
thank you for your testimony. Thank you, sir. Anybody for? I want to speak for this bill. Seeing none, we'll come back to the committee.
Mr. Summers, do you have a motion to do pass? Yes, sir. All those in favor say
aye. Aye. Opposed? No. I believe the ayes have it. Thank you, Mr. Altice. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Senator
Holland, I believe I see you in the room. You're going to present Senate Bill 344. Have a seat and recognize yourself for the record, please.
Speaker 171
40:29
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am Senator Bruce Holland. I'm here today to present to the committee my Senate Bill 344, which is to set up a mentoring program for high school or for public school superintendents. Kind of something that I believe Representative Karnan has a very similar bill to this. But right now this will bring the superintendent position in the same realm as all the other teachers and principals
and others in a mentoring program. And I'd appreciate a
Speaker 173
41:13
good vote and be happy to take any questions. Committee, any questions?
Speaker 98
41:25
Representative Pierce. Are the school districts going to pay for this course or how
Speaker 171
41:29
are they going to set it up, Senator? This bill will merely set the program up, and when there is funding available, that would be at that time.
But if I would add to that, I think that a first-year superintendent, where he's making his decisions, it could be very valuable to him. They say there's about 20 to 25 new superintendents across the state in a year's time. The fiscal impact statement says it would cost around $200,000 to implement it. If it was implemented and we went through this program, I can see each of those people going through
Speaker 176
42:05
there and saving, you know, in excess of $10,000 apiece.
Representative Bobby J. Pierce
Unverified
42:11
I agree with you on that. I'm glad you brought this bill because with the turnover we have in superintendents and the new ones we have coming up, they need the training because they're in, you know, Some of them we're having to go all the way back to junior high to get superintendents in schools, and it's a different world out there
Representative Tim Summers
Unverified
42:30
now. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate your comments. Any other questions? Representative Summers. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Senator, do you know what type of mentoring is in effect
Speaker 176
42:39
now, if any? There's not a program such as this in implementation right now.
Representative Tim Summers
Unverified
42:43
Okay. Okay, and did I understand you to say that when it was implemented that the funds would come from the district level or from the State Department? It would come from
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
42:58
the State Department. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Committee, any other questions? Seeing none, we'll go to the audience. Anyone want to speak against this bill? Anyone
Speaker 180
43:07
signed up? Yes, Mr. Abernathy. Mr. Abernathy, you want to speak against this bill? No, for
Speaker 181
43:11
this bill. Okay, you may come down to the table.
Speaker 182
43:14
Dennis, identify yourself with the record, please. Richard Abernathy, the Executive Director of the Administrators Association. And
Speaker 183
43:27
I started to stand up earlier until you said against, but we think this is a very good piece of legislation. Actually, this is being helped develop by the AASA, which is a superintendent group under the umbrella of my organization. You know, we believe that one of the worst things we do across the state in training leaders
is provide no direction for beginning superintendents. There's no mentoring program for beginning superintendents. We require that for beginning teachers. We require that for beginning administrators. But we think once you become a superintendent, you're cured and you have all the answers. And we're finding out that that may not always be the case. And so we're trying to get some superintendents some help their first year. And, of course, this is obviously will be run through the department. we'd hope to have a hand in helping train those new leaders. Representative Steele.
Speaker 184
44:19
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just a quick question. Would this bill
Speaker 186
44:22
also include superintendents of charter schools, open enrollment charter schools? Charter school people can become
Speaker 183
44:28
a member of the association, but they're not really – that's a really good question. Just being set up for public schools,
Speaker 186
44:37
open enrollment charters. charter schools are a public school, so I'm
Speaker 183
44:41
sure they could participate. We have charter school members that are members of our association right now, so it's not that we're trying to
exclude them. I just really hadn't thought through that process,
Speaker 91
44:53
so. Well, you know the trouble that some of them have been having on the administrative part, not necessarily the educational part. Thank
Representative Donna Hutchinson
Unverified
45:04
you. Yes, sir. Representative Hutchison, you have a question. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Do superintendents have national conferences they go to as teachers that they go to
as teachers i mean like teachers have a national conference do
Speaker 183
45:20
superintendents there are conferences available for instance the last
aasa conference was in denver in february and out of 239 superintendents and if you had charters more than that there were probably 20
Speaker 190
45:28
that went that went um well thank you i didn't want to spend the money
Representative Donna Hutchinson
Unverified
45:37
twice so i didn't know if they attended these conference annually or not but um well and let me just we
Speaker 189
45:43
what we are trying to do is just give them nuts and bolts and how to how to plan your
Speaker 183
45:49
budget how to not go in physical distress how to work on your facility plan how to work with the
school board just the basics on on actually operating the school district from a superintendent's perspective so it's
Representative Donna Hutchinson
Unverified
46:00
basically training them how to fit into the arkansas system all right thank Thank you very much. Mr. Summers. Thank
Representative Tim Summers
Unverified
46:08
you, Mr. Chair. Senator, I'm thinking about making a motion to amend this to include legislators. Do you think that's a good idea? A motion at the proper time, sir. Thank you, Mr. Summers,
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
46:19
for the comments. Anyone else on the committee?
Anyone else in the audience want to speak against or for this bill? Seeing none, Mr. Summers. Move, do pass. If a
motion do pass, all those in favor say aye. All opposed, like sign. I believe that I have it. Congratulations, Senator. Pass your bill. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I
understand you're going to run Senate Bill 306, the one you killed last week for Senator Jeffress.
Representative Tim Summers
Unverified
46:54
Apparently, you all came to agreement on this bill. Identify yourself with the record, please, and then you may proceed. Tim Summers, Representative, District 99. Our conversation about Senate Bill 306 involved the number of hours annually
that a person that's state employed could take leave, and the maximum amount of leave possible is eight hours, and that
does not carry over from year to year. So that answered my objections to
Speaker 31
47:39
it. Committee, any other questions? Mr. Carnine. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Is this the leave that we are approving, is this paid leave? Yes,
Representative Les "Skip" Carnine
Unverified
47:52
sir, that's correct. So they are actually paid for attending their grandchild's event?
Representative Tim Summers
Unverified
47:57
Up to eight hours per year,
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
48:03
yes, sir. Okay. Representative Wren. Thank
Representative Tommy Wren
Unverified
48:09
you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Summers, Representative Summers, I had two questions written down that you had asked Senator Jeffers. The one, you answered how many hours per semester a year. The second one was how many persons. We had made comment to parents, grandparents, were they all able to take off?
Representative Tim Summers
Unverified
48:29
Were you able to answer that? Right. In the bill, it describes the people, their relationship
to the child as natural child, adopted child, stepchild, foster child, grandchild, ward of the state employee. I believe that's all it describes. Mr. Rand,
Speaker 185
48:53
you're through. Ms. Clemmer. Thank you,
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
48:58
Mr. Chair. I had a couple of questions last week and have had them answered since then.
But for clarification purposes, it is true that
Lisa Mcgee
Unverified
49:09
this leave was already in place. We're not establishing the leave. We're merely, we were asking questions really because we wanted to know more about the existing statute. But all this bill does, and I'm asking for your clarification, is extend this to children before they enter K-12. That's correct. Thank you.
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
49:27
Thank you, Ms. Clemmer. Anyone else from the committee? Anyone in the audience wants to speak against this bill, for this bill?
Seeing none, Ms. Summers, you've closed. Do you think you can get a friend to entertain a motion here, or Ms. Clemmer? Motion do pass. Okay. Well, motion
do pass, committee. All those in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed, like sign. I believe the ayes have it. Congratulations, Mr. Summers. Let's see what we're going
back to. Committees, go back to our regular agenda, I guess. House Bill 1435, we'll pass that over.
House Bill 1551, we'll pass that over. Mr. Summers, 1578, are you going to run that today? Yes, sir.
Okay, identify yourself again, please, and then you may proceed.
Representative Tim Summers
Unverified
50:29
I'm Tim Summers, State Representative, District 99, and I'll read my information here. And we have 17 witnesses here that are eager to speak, however the committee likes the bill, and I think they will.
We'll be glad to waive those. This bill amends parental notification when a student is being interviewed during the course of a child maltreatment investigation. Years ago, the school was required to notify parents about student interviews. Representative, now Senator David Johnson, amended the notice provision so that the school was not required to notify the parent if the interview was being conducted by law enforcement, DHS, or Arkansas State Police Crimes Against Children Division. This bill goes one more step.
Now the school cannot provide notice to a parent, guardian, custodian, or a person standing in that Latin term if that person is identified as the alleged offender in a reported child maltreatment. The investigating agency will provide documentation to the school that notification is prohibited, and we have no known opposition. The School Board Association and Department of Ed are okay with this bill. I'll answer any questions if I have any.
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
51:48
Committee, questions? No questions? Seeing none, we'll go, oh, excuse me, Ms. Dickerson, do you have a question? Motion at
Speaker 217
51:59
the proper time. I have you written down. Mrs.
Lisa Mcgee
Unverified
52:06
Clemmer, you have a question? I think this sounds like a much-needed bill, but my question is, is there any notification afterwards? My name is Lisa
Speaker 218
52:14
McGee. I'm an attorney with the Department of Human Services, and yes, there will be.
It will be by the investigative agency to the parent. Is it required or allowed? And the notice is required over in the
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
52:32
Child Mild Treatment Act. Okay. Committee, any other questions? Seeing none, we'll go to the audience. Anyone want to speak against this bill, for this bill? Seeing none, we'll come back to the committee. I have a motion to do pass from Representative Dickerson. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? Like a sign?
I believe the ayes have it. Congratulations, Mr. Summers. That's your limit for the year, I
Speaker 220
52:56
believe. committee well excuse me well they're going to be deferred
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
53:19
or passed over and I shouldn't use the word deferred until Thursday Anyone else on the committee that
has a bill on the agenda that wants
to run that bill today? Representative Roebuck is going to run 1875. After a
little conversation up here, we decided to put that bill off until Thursday.
We're going to look at 1924. Excuse me.
Speaker 74
54:20
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm sorry for that mix up.
Members, House Bill 1924, you'll see that is an amendment to current code 19.4602, and if you'll look on page two, and you'll see the changes that are made there, and that just simply says that the Arkansas Tax-Deferred Tuition Savings Plan or a tax-deferred savings program established by another state as it existed on January 1, 2007, and then it gives
you what this would do, and it's endorsed by, of course, the Department of Higher Education, and this just gives us another opportunity for this program. Committee, any questions? Seeing none, we'll go to the audience.
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
55:19
Anyone want to speak against this bill or for this bill? We'll come back to the committee.
Mr. Summers? Motion do pass. Motion do pass, committee. All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed, like sign. I believe the ayes have it. Dr. Roebuck, thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Committee, I
think we have one more bill to run if we can tie Mr. Hyde down. We have an amendment to that bill.
Look at 1595. will pass out an amendment to that bill, 1595.
Thank you.
All those in favor say aye. Aye. I believe the ayes have it. I'll give you
Speaker 231
57:14
a second to look at that before we... Does everyone have the amendment in front of them? I'll give you just a second
Speaker 232
57:33
to look at that. Mr. Hyde, you may identify yourself with the record and proceed. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm Representative Barry Hyde.
Speaker 234
57:43
The infamous Cheatham and Hyde, I understand.
Representative Barry Hyde
Unverified
57:45
Well, I was wondering there for just a minute, but thank you for restoring my faith in that. Members, those especially who are in their third term and those who are in their second term will remember that four years ago, or four and a half years ago, as a, I guess, a primer or an incentive to help encourage the three districts in Plaski County to pursue unitary status so we could begin to resolve this issue.
It was agreed and offered that upon them being declared unitary that they could claim or they could receive up to $250,000 each to help reimburse their legal expenses. As probably everybody in this room is well aware, we've been waiting on the federal courts, and we continue to wait, and hopefully we won't wait too much longer. But that has caused us to continue to extend our offer to the districts. The districts did everything we asked them to do in the time frame that we asked them to do.
They are simply still sitting the same way we are, waiting for the determination to occur from the courts. The money is already – actually, it's not only appropriated, it's sitting at the Department of Education, and it can be spent for nothing else other than the reimbursement of this $250,000 to each of the three districts. All we're trying to do is extend it now. I hate to have extended it two years, but I'm losing – I continue to lose more confidence in the federal courts all the time.
But we made a commitment to these three districts to lead them in to this endeavor and to encourage them to stay with the endeavor. And I hope that you'll agree with me that we need to continue to live up to our part
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
59:40
of the bargain. Committee, Representative Summers. Thank you, Mr.
Representative Tim Summers
Unverified
59:43
Chairman. I think I understand this. Just to be clear, there's not any new dollars involved, no new appropriations. Not a penny. Thank you, sir.
Representative Barry Hyde
Unverified
59:53
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is four-year-old money, actually. It's fermenting, I guess, is the way to put it. Committee, any
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
1:00:01
other questions? Seeing none, we'll go to the audience. Anyone want to speak against this bill, for this bill? Coming back to the committee, I would entertain a motion. Representative Pierce, do pass
as amended. All those in favor say aye. Aye. All
opposed, no. I believe the ayes have it. Thank you, Mr. Hyde.
Thank you, Chairman, and thank you, Committee.
Committee, we're going to get all we can today because we're going to have a lengthy list when these other bills get on here. But look at House Bill 1860
Speaker 237
1:00:44
by Representative Mayberry. Actually, sir, I'm here
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
1:00:46
for 1821. Excuse me. 1821 by Mr. Mayberry. Okay. Dennis,
identify yourself with the record and then you may proceed, Mr. Mayberry.
Representative Andy Mayberry
Unverified
1:01:01
I'm Representative Andy Mayberry. And this is what should be a pretty
simple little bill here. It's an act to give priority for an Arkansas Academics Challenge Scholarship to a student whose parent was killed in action or killed on ordinance delivery while serving in the United States Armed Forces and for other purposes. Essentially, what this is saying is that with our existing Arkansas scholarship lottery dollars that one of these individuals identified here who is already qualified, met the qualifications
otherwise, that essentially what we're doing is we're making sure that they're at the top of the list if there are possible funding shortages and maybe not everyone gets that scholarship, that they are at the top of the list. These are individuals who, you know, their mom or their dad gave their life for this country to protect each and every one of us, and they might possibly have been counting on mom or dad to help kick in a little bit toward an education. And so we're just ensuring that these folks who are already meeting these eligibility requirements,
that they are at the top of the list there. Again, not using any funds that aren't already allocated or expanding the program in any way for anyone who's not already eligible. With that, and I also want to point out to Representative Pierce had come to me a little bit earlier in the week looking at this and had mentioned something about tuition waivers already in place. A difference, a distinction here would be that those tuition waivers are specifically for public institutions in the state of Arkansas,
and this is a little more broad scope in how these scholarship dollars can be utilized. So with that, I'd entertain any questions, And if there are none, I'd appreciate a
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
1:02:51
good vote. Committee, questions? Seeing none, excuse me, I'm sorry, Vice Chair Roebuck. Representative
Mayberry, I assume you've talked to the Department of Higher Education about this bill? Actually, no, ma'am, I have not. Okay. Mr. Chair, could we ask the Department of Higher Education to respond? That'd be proper.
Speaker 246
1:03:09
They'd want to come to the table. Mr. Chairman, I'm Shane Broadway, Interim Director of the Arkansas Department of
Speaker 247
1:03:32
Higher Education. I'm Janet Lawrence, Attorney for the Department of
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
1:03:36
Higher Education. Thank you. You may proceed, Dr. Robock.
Speaker 249
1:03:40
MR. Well, in terms of our response, General Assembly establishes the criteria for the Academic Challenge Scholarship. So this is obviously within your purview to set the criterion who may be first in line. It would require a little additional work on our part in terms of receiving the documentation that they are qualified from a veteran's standpoint or field in action. There are other scholarships available to them, and this would obviously flow into the
current stacking policy where a lottery would be stacked first, but they are eligible for other benefits that are out there. But we will, whatever the General Assembly wishes the criteria to be or whoever goes first in line, we will certainly do everything in our power to make that happen. Do you want to add anything? Go ahead,
Mr. Roblox. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Broadway, when we are talking about stacking and we're listing the current scholarships
that we already have in place, what I hear you say is that these students, if there is any money available because of their status, then they would receive that money first, and then if there is still a need at the end, then they would be considered in priority for the academic challenge. I mean, the other money that they would receive because of their status would come first before the lottery scholarship. Is that the way the stacking works? That is correct, Representative Roebuck.
Speaker 249
1:05:14
And Janet can address, we were talking before we came up here about the other programs that they are currently eligible for,
Speaker 247
1:05:25
committee. Okay. Would you do that for us, please? Yes, ma'am. We have the Military Dependence Scholarship, which Representative Mayberry did discuss, and it only goes to state-supported institutions. That's how the law was designed and what it currently reads. And they also get dollars from the federal government. There's a veterans program that gives them a scholarship,
and it's actually mentioned within the Military Dependence Scholarship. We talk about those funds come first, and then we pay whatever is remaining that those funds don't cover. in that program, of course, to state-supported institutions. And so those programs already exist, and I know there are other programs that we may not be aware of that are on the campuses themselves, individual campuses. So there are other funds out there as well, but, you know, if this is a criteria set, the department will definitely add that to our list of things to do for academic challenge.
Okay, my next question. If we had had this in place and it actually became law, How many students, do you have any idea how many students
Speaker 257
1:06:30
would have been impacted? We don't currently collect that for
Speaker 249
1:06:35
challenge. It's not part of that application process. We would know how many we have on the other program. Harold, do you know how many? For the military dependents, let me get Harold Criswell in.
Speaker 120
1:06:54
Deputy Director here. Identify yourself the record, please. Harold Criswell, Interim Deputy Director. I don't have that number. I'd be glad to supply that to the committee as far as the current military-dependent program separate from Challenge. And with the information that we do currently collect on Challenge, we don't have that information identified. We would have to change our
Speaker 249
1:07:21
form to capture that. then they would need to provide additional documentation, but that can be added to our
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
1:07:29
process. MS. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. MR. Would you just kind of ballpark dependence on that program
Speaker 249
1:07:47
now? MR. It's $5 million in the program. MR. I just kind of wondered how
Speaker 120
1:07:56
many. MR. No, I'm done. Okay. Okay. Mr. Chair, roughly right now the program is around $300,000.
If I could get you to give me about five minutes, I'll get you a number of actual eligible. You can give it to me
Representative Andy Mayberry
Unverified
1:08:09
later. I'm just curious. Mr. Chair, if I could make a point, too. This addresses strictly those individuals whose parent was killed versus a broad military dependence. Let's see, I believe I have Rep. Summers for question. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Representative Tim Summers
Unverified
1:08:31
And Representative Mayberry, my question now, if I understand this, they'd have to meet all the other eligibility requirements if they were a failing student, for example. Yes, sir.
Representative Andy Mayberry
Unverified
1:08:41
I mean, this wouldn't change any eligibility requirements for this particular individual. It just simply puts them at the top of the list when we're looking at if some individual scholarships aren't funded they're not going to be among those okay
Representative Tim Summers
Unverified
1:08:56
and help me understand I like your bill but help me understand exactly what priority means
does that mean that they would be at the top of list for regardless of any other students in the state and their academic achievements other considerations this my understanding is the way this would
Representative Andy Mayberry
Unverified
1:09:17
be is that if as we're funding the scholarships, and you have a
list of those students whose scholarships will be funded, that these individuals would be at the top of that list. They have met all of the criteria for eligibility of it, and so they're moving to the top of
the list to ensure that their scholarships are funded. Thank
Representative Tim Summers
Unverified
1:09:45
you, Representative. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Okay. And Clemmer, do you have a question?
Speaker 66
1:09:51
A few minutes with your indulgence. First, if I
Lisa Mcgee
Unverified
1:09:56
could clarify, we're using academic challenge and the lottery scholarship simultaneously. We really no longer have a lottery scholarship. It is academic challenge. I just wanted to make sure
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
1:10:05
that everybody was clear, and I made sure I was clear.
Is it correct, Mr. Broadway, it's odd not to call you Senator Broadway, former senator, by the way, I like that, that do all military dependents currently get a scholarship? That's not correct, is it?
Lisa Mcgee
Unverified
1:10:27
It seemed like that's what was coming from the other end of the table. No, I
Speaker 249
1:10:33
don't think that would be correct, but there is a program for military dependents, and Harold just got her information. There's only 300,000 in the program, so there are about 60 recipients.
Speaker 122
1:10:45
Well, you don't need to tell me if my kid's eligible later on. Sorry. Because I did not know. And they fill out a universal application? Yes, I know. But I thought there were certain. We do fill that out, and I don't think we're eligible. So I don't think it's for
Speaker 247
1:11:05
all military dependents is my understanding. It's just for certain. I can answer your question. It's for those that were missing in action, killed in action, or permanently disabled, as defined by the Veterans Administration.
Permanently disabled as a result of
Lisa Mcgee
Unverified
1:11:19
the military service. It has to be 100%. 100%, that's okay. Thank you, but we need to make that clear that's not for just anyone. Right. Is it correct also to say that we award currently more or less by who gets in line first until we run out of money? I mean, we're not giving the scholarship as long as you meet the basic requirements.
Speaker 249
1:11:48
You just get in line. You get in line. If funds begin to run short, there is a process through rules and regulations that establishes the criteria for who is prioritized for traditional and nontraditional. GPA, let's see. No, number of hours towards graduation, GPA, and STEM if you are a major in one of the areas of need,
Speaker 122
1:12:18
science, technology, engineering, mathematics. Humor me for a moment, and let's assume that everyone is a college senior applying for the first time. Do you wait to see on the deadline how many people you have? And if you have more than you have money for, then you start to prioritize then, is that correct? And some of
Lisa Mcgee
Unverified
1:12:40
that is based on performance. I have actually been given some wrong information on that, so thank you for clarifying that. We have
Speaker 249
1:12:47
that process. We'll be glad to email. I've sent it to the co-chairs of Lottery after their meeting the other day because,
and this is getting off subject, Mr. Chairman, but obviously whatever the amount is, We do have a criteria if lottery revenues fall short for how we prioritize recipients. Okay. Well, I mean, it's not
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
1:13:07
off-subject with all due respect because we're talking about who gets to get in line first, and that's essentially what this bill does is it would put. We
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
1:13:18
as part of that criteria. But we're talking about a child that no longer has a supporting parent. Correct. Putting them in
Lisa Mcgee
Unverified
1:13:25
line first, and I would support that very much.
Thank you. I mean, is that a correct, that's a correct statement, is that correct, what I just said, puts them in line first? That is correct. As long
Representative Andy Mayberry
Unverified
1:13:39
as they've met the other qualifications? As long as they've
Representative Donna Hutchinson
Unverified
1:13:48
met all the other qualifications. Thank you. Representative Hutchinson. Just as a review, thank you, Mr. Chairman. This student
would have other means of scholarships, though, available to them since their parent had been in the military?
Representative Andy Mayberry
Unverified
1:13:59
Potentially so. This would not change any way that this particular person could or would utilize their scholarship. If they
could use the scholarship before, they'd still be able to use it. If they weren't able to access this scholarship, they wouldn't be able to access this. It just simply puts them at the top of the priority list
Representative Donna Hutchinson
Unverified
1:14:29
utilize it. But they still would have other scholarships available because
of the military background outside of the lottery? Is that true? It's the more what
Speaker 257
1:14:40
they would be eligible for would be a
Speaker 249
1:14:43
grant from the VA. Okay. In referencing Representative Mayberry's criteria, someone who is deceased or their parent has died in action or been disabled line of action, they would be eligible for VA benefits. I had a bill about this a few years ago that we had to go back and change, and that's why
I remember a lot of this. You want to add to that? But there are other opportunities afforded to them and may not pay the total cost of attendance, and I think that's what Representative Mayberry is discussing here.
Representative Donna Hutchinson
Unverified
1:15:19
And they would be put ahead of a student that might have a higher GPA then, according to this
Representative Andy Mayberry
Unverified
1:15:28
bill? MR. According to this bill, yes, these individuals would receive the top priority. MS.
All right. Thank you. Representative Roebuck, do you have another question? MS. Well, just a clarification. Mr. Broadway, let me make sure I understand. This last award of the Academic Challenge Scholarship, sometimes referred to as lottery, we actually awarded every traditional student that applied and met the criteria. Is that correct? That's correct. We also awarded every current achiever that applied and met the criteria. Is that correct? That is correct. So any of these students that had been covered or were traditional or current achievers,
they got the academic challenge scholarship. So we're really talking about here, I mean, I know we may not do that coming forward, but we're also talking about we did not award all of our nontraditionals. That is correct. So just if we go with what we've already done in Mr. Mayberry's bill, that would tell you that one of these students would go to the head of the line for the non-traditional, and perhaps there were some that did not get the scholarship that this would cover,
would have covered, and might cover in the future. I'm just trying to understand. Is
Speaker 257
1:16:46
that true? That would be correct. Okay. Thank you very much. The potential does exist, depending upon revenues
Speaker 249
1:16:52
in the future, that we would have to prioritize traditional students. Let's say a gas goes to, heaven forbid, $5 a gallon. Obviously, that has a dramatic impact on lottery revenue. If that were to go to the point where we can't cover all traditional students, then, yes, this student would be first in line,
and then it would fall to the rest
of our current rules. Okay. And then just one more clarification. This student would still receive, as we go down the stacking priorities, this student would still receive the funds from the military-dependent scholarship and anything else that that student got from federal or from anything privately. And there's a place on the form that they have to disclose all of that. And then what we're saying is if there's any need left out of cost of attendance
and they need the academic challenge scholarship, leadership, then they would get a priority. MR. Correct. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. MR. One
Speaker 249
1:17:50
thing I'll point out to the committee that I was just visiting with Representative Mayberry, obviously we have already had a number of applications for this upcoming class. The deadline is June 1st. My question to Representative Mayberry was which year he wished for this to be applied to. We've already had a number of applications that we would not have the information on
to determine if they are one of these students. We would, if the desire is for this to apply to this upcoming class, we would have to go back and contact every applicant. And that is not the intent at
Speaker 261
1:18:25
all? No, no. I mean, we'll be glad to do that,
Speaker 249
1:18:28
I guess is what I'm saying. But we just want you to know that that's what we would have to do because the question generally comes up, we are already taking applications, And so that is not part of the current application, so we would need to notify and try to figure out if there are others.
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
1:18:47
Committee, I have Wren, Stewart, Clemmer, and Baird. So don't play any old ground, please. And Hopper, evidently. Mr. Wren,
you're next. I'll make a motion. Okay. At proper time, I'll accept that motion. Mr. Stewart. Yes, thank you. I
Speaker 194
1:19:01
came in a little bit late, so I might
Representative Randy Stewart
Unverified
1:19:06
have missed this, but looking at the bill, I support it, but I see several holes in it. One thing is it talks about killed in action, and looking at a printout of all our deaths in theater in the last 10 years,
the majority of deaths that occur in foreign fields are from training accidents, vehicle accidents, range accidents, accidental shootings. None of those people would be covered in this bill, but they're still dead, and their kids still need to have the scholarship. It also leaves out missing in action, where a person will not be declared killed in action, but there will be missing in action and be not available to provide funding for their student.
A second part is that most of the people at Little Rock Air Force Base whose students will become Arkansas students were not residents of Arkansas when they entered the service. So you have denied them the right to do this. So I think the bill might need some cleaning up. I'm also supportive of it, but I'd like to make it more inclusive. And do you see where we're at? I understand your
Representative Andy Mayberry
Unverified
1:20:16
concerns. Okay. All right. Thank you. Mrs. Clemmer.
Speaker 122
1:20:23
Just another related point. It is true that we turned down almost 30,000 recipients, but they were non-traditional. Is that correct? No, that's not correct. What is the number of recipients that applied that did not get awarded?
Speaker 249
1:20:42
3,000? 3,500. The rest were ineligible. The 30,000 figure you mentioned, that's because they were ineligible. They did not meet the criteria. We only have about 3,500 on a waiting list.
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
1:20:55
Well, that's good to know. So here's a hypothetical situation. If we're
Lisa Mcgee
Unverified
1:21:01
not awarding very many non-traditional, I think we touched on this, but would this then change a child of a killed in action, or however we determine that wording, would it put them
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
1:21:12
into the same category or would it put them ahead of a traditional student? In other words, you
Lisa Mcgee
Unverified
1:21:20
know, we turn down a lot of people. well let's just say they became eligible
I don't know what does this do to their other eligibility does this scoot them and this may be a question for the
Speaker 257
1:21:36
bill's sponsor I don't know it would put
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
1:21:41
them if funds were not available let's just say the student dropped out they were traumatized by the death of their father or mother they had to stop and take care of family under normal circumstances Now they're non-traditional. Does this put them back like they're a traditional student?
Lisa Mcgee
Unverified
1:21:58
Not the way we were determined. It would put them at the front of their category? Non-traditional, yes,
Speaker 249
1:22:11
ma'am. Okay. Is that Mr. Mayberry's intent? Currently we are maxed out. Currently we are at the $12 million. Non-traditional is the only place
Lisa Mcgee
Unverified
1:22:22
where we have a waiting. I guess my question is to Mr. Mayberry, that with all due respect to Representative Stewart.
My question, Mr. Mayberry, do you want these to go to the front of the non— it's a nontraditional student whose parent has been killed. Maybe they dropped out due to the death of a parent. Do you want them to be at the front of the line of the nontraditional students, or do you want them
Representative Andy Mayberry
Unverified
1:22:49
to be at the front of the line of— I want them to
Speaker 122
1:22:53
be at the front of the line. Period. Yes, ma'am. That's not what represents, I mean, sorry, whatever your title is. All your titles, Senator Broadway.
Representative Andy Mayberry
Unverified
1:23:03
I think that would be the intent of the bill. The intent of this bill, the intent of the, I will tell you, where this came from is originally one of my constituents came to me and said, you know what, we need to have a scholarship for kids whose parents have died in the military. And rather than set up a separate scholarship such as that, what we looked at here was taking an existing scholarship that a large number of students are eligible for, as it is, and just ensuring that these particular students are at the front of the line.
I know that we've funded the vast majority of the scholarships this past year. We don't have a guarantee that that's going to take place in the future. and I want to make sure that if something changes and if we are not able to fund all of those scholarships, that these individuals whose parents who they had relied upon, that they're not one of the
ones falling through the cracks. Thank you. I just wanted to make sure that
Lisa Mcgee
Unverified
1:24:03
that's what I was hearing you say, but I wasn't sure given
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
1:24:07
the discussion, whether we were talking about the front of the category or the front overall.
Speaker 302
1:24:11
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Representative Baird. Yeah,
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
1:24:16
my question was asked. Thank you. Thank you. Representative
Representative Karen S. Hopper
Unverified
1:24:20
Hopper, did you have a question? I did. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Senator Broadway, knowing that, of course, some supporting documentation would be required, do you see the universal application portal being able to pull this in, or is this creating something that would have to be handled manually? It would have to be done manually.
Speaker 249
1:24:42
Yeah, the documentation. We don't have any way to accept over the universal application the paperwork. I'm sure we could probably add some kind of button that indicates that they would be that, but that will cost us a little bit of money, too. Anytime we make
Speaker 307
1:25:00
a change to our application, it's $100 an hour. I was
Representative Karen S. Hopper
Unverified
1:25:06
wondering that and then I guess kind of wrapping a lot of these questions together together that have been asked about how do we, you know, where these folks would fall in line,
and if all of a sudden they're handled manually, might that then create yet another problem that's hard? What's the best way to implement this, I guess, is
Speaker 249
1:25:26
what I'm looking at. I don't know that there's any way around having the paperwork. We have to review all those transcripts anyway, so it's just, there'll just be additional work on our part, but that's what we do now. It can be done. I would be getting personal if I was talking about military, especially the child of someone who served our country.
It would be a little more personal, but we'll make sure
Speaker 276
1:25:53
it gets done. Thank you. And if anybody would like to volunteer to come
Speaker 194
1:25:57
down and read transcripts, we'd love to have you. Representative Stewart, do you have another question?
Representative Randy Stewart
Unverified
1:26:00
I just have a suggestion to Representative Mayberry that if you would pull it down, I would like to help you work on this, and I can bring out the National Guard Liaison for Legislative Affairs to assist you in getting the correct verbiage on this and make this a much better bill. Representative Stewart, I'd be happy to do that. Okay.
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
1:26:19
Okay, Mr. Mayberry, you have pulled your bill down, is that correct, for amendment? That is correct. All right, we appreciate you coming to us today, and we look forward
to seeing you again in the near future. Committee, anything else? Anyone else want to run a bill today? Seeing none, meeting adjourned. Thank you.
Agenda
Call to Order
HB1032
SB344
SB306
HB1578
HB1924
HB1595
HB1821
Documents
No documents posted.
Speakers
Representative Johnnie J. Roebuck Chair
Unverified
Representative Denny Altes
Unverified
Representative Tim Summers
Unverified
Speaker 17
Speaker 18
Speaker 22
Representative Les "Skip" Carnine
Unverified
Representative Kathy Webb
Unverified
Representative Donna Hutchinson
Unverified
Speaker 63
Speaker 16
Speaker 69
Speaker 90
Speaker 91
Speaker 93
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
Lisa Mcgee
Unverified
Speaker 79
Speaker 113
Speaker 120
Speaker 122
Representative Jody Dickinson
Unverified
Speaker 74
Representative Karen S. Hopper
Unverified
Speaker 46
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
Speaker 148
Representative Bobby J. Pierce
Unverified
Speaker 152
Speaker 153
Rita Sklar
Unverified
Speaker 171
Speaker 173
Speaker 98
Speaker 176
Speaker 180
Speaker 181
Speaker 182
Speaker 183
Speaker 184
Speaker 186
Speaker 190
Speaker 189
Speaker 31
Representative Tommy Wren
Unverified
Speaker 185
Speaker 217
Speaker 218
Speaker 220
Speaker 231
Speaker 232
Speaker 234
Representative Barry Hyde
Unverified
Speaker 237
Representative Andy Mayberry
Unverified
Speaker 246
Speaker 247
Speaker 249
Speaker 25
Speaker 257
Speaker 66
Speaker 283
Speaker 261
Speaker 194
Representative Randy Stewart
Unverified
Speaker 302
Speaker 307
Speaker 276