House Agriculture, Forestry & Economic Development Committee
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I want to welcome everybody to our meeting today, and the people in the audience, everyone seems to think this might be a lively meeting. Well, I think every meeting we've had has been a little lively. So that's part of the dull old agricultural world,
Speaker 3
0:15
isn't it? Mr. Chair, that's because you're such
a lively guy. I'm going to take that as a compliment, Representative. Thank you so much. I've got to be very careful. My vice
chair is not here, so I need to be very careful. So the first item of business today, committee, is a special order of business, House Bill 1766 by Representative Gillum.
Representative Jeremy Gillam
Unverified
0:41
Representative Gillum, are you prepared and ready to go? Yes, sir. You may begin after you recognize yourself. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Representative Jeremy Gillum, District 49 Committee, I thank you for your indulgence on the special order today I've got some guests that have traveled from out of state and some that had scheduling conflicts with him here at the Capitol so I appreciate your consideration I bring before you today House Bill 1766 which would create a loan repayment program
and an arrangement with Mississippi State University for five slots in their veterinary school for Arkansas students. I don't have to tell this committee, I know that you've heard a wide range of bills this session concerning the state of veterinary care in Arkansas at different levels and you know the statistics so I'm not going to rehash those. You know that we have a shortage
And this opportunity has presented itself. Back several weeks ago, Mississippi State University came to the Capitol, drove all the way here, and met with some of us about this idea and this program. They've been extremely gracious in wanting to work with us and to help us solve this shortage. And that is the bill that you have in front of you today, is the culmination of that partnership through this process. One of the things that I think that has borne out through this session in looking at where
our vets practice and what they practice, this program, just to outline a few little points here real fast, the students that enroll in this program and go to Mississippi State University under this legislation, they are going to have to come back to Arkansas and practice in our rural communities, in our rural areas, and spend at least 30% of their time on large animal vet care, which I believe we all can agree that that is a very great
need. And through that, they would then be eligible for this repayment program, which would repay 20% of their out-of-state portion of their loan for five years. And so the benefit back to our communities, I think, is evident in the intent of this bill and through the language. We're going to be able to have productive vet care in the communities where it's needed,
but we'll also be able to have our students come back home and not remain out of state. And that was one of the wishes that Mississippi State, and I think they'll speak to that here shortly, but that was one of their intent, too, was to create a system with us in which our students came back home so we're not consistently sending our best and brightest to other states for the remainder of their lives. I have some guests with me today, so I'm going to keep my remarks brief, and I'm going to ask now if Jeffrey Hall from Arkansas Farm Bureau would join me here briefly to make a comment,
and then we'll continue on if that's okay
Speaker 15
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with the committee. Mr. Hall, if you'll recognize yourself for the record. Yes, Mr. Chairman, Jeffrey Hall with Arkansas Farm Bureau. Like Jeremy had said, Farm Bureau is an organization looked at, had several meetings throughout this past year to look at agriculture issues that we are facing as farmers and ranchers in our organization.
And the shortage of large animal vets continued to rise to the top. And like Mr. Gillum, Representative Gillum had said this morning, this committee we've heard a lot about that during this past session. The important part of this bill for Farm Bureau is the 30% requirement that when the students graduate and come back to the state that they are required to have 30% of their practice on large animals. This is also a repayment program instead of a loan forgiveness program, so it does have
some incentive, or it has a little teeth in it, if you may, for the Department of Higher Education to make certain that the state is not out any money unless they uphold the contract with them coming back to Arkansas. We do feel like that programs like this is a good first step to alleviate some of the shortages that we have, and as Arkansas Farm Bureau and Arkansas Agriculture look forward
in the partnership that we have or that we will have with the Mississippi State University of College of Medicine. So with that, we'd appreciate a good vote on your support on this bill, and thank Representative Gillum for taking the lead on this, and thank you all for co-sponsoring this bill. Will you
Representative Jeremy Gillam
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6:01
take questions now, Representative? If it would be okay with the chair and the committee, I would like to go ahead and
maybe invite the gentleman from Mississippi State to continue with my presentation before I
ask questions. Are these the people that have signed up to speak for the bill? I believe so, yes, sir. It would be appropriate if you would take questions first, and then we'll let them present their whatever they have to say. Then let us ask them questions. Yes, sir.
Representative Fredrick J. Love
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6:35
Okay, that'll be just fine. All right, sir. Questions? Representative Love. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Gilliam and Mr. Hall, through this vast process that I've experienced in the agriculture on this committee,
I understand the bill, and I think it's a good bill. However, as I was sitting here, I thought about something. This bill, I don't think, addresses the concentration issue. And what I mean by the concentration issue is if you have five students and they all come from Fayetteville, Now, does it address the issue of large animal vets being in the southern portion of the state?
Representative Jeremy Gillam
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7:20
Do you understand what I'm saying? Yes, Representative Love. And I guess how I would approach that is that, one, the probability maybe of all five students making it through the admission process and all of the requirements that Mississippi State would have would probably be slim, just that you would have all five concentrated from that area. But I do understand your question. They would not necessarily disperse throughout the state when they came back.
I feel like that what you're going to probably wind up having more often than not is that you're going to have students from around the entire state of Arkansas. I believe they have students right now that are on their alternate list to get into their program as it stands now. Those students are spread around from the entire state, and I think you will probably continue to see that. But with our other arrangements we have with LSU and other universities, we have not seen the statistical evidence that shows that all nine students that go to LSU
come from one area. They have typically borne out from around
Representative Fredrick J. Love
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8:30
the state. Okay. As long as the issue is
Speaker 29
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addressed, Mr. Chair, motion of proper time. All
right, sir. Representative Gilliam, could you go over for my clarification one more time about
Representative Jeremy Gillam
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8:45
the repayment schedule? Yes, sir. What would occur is when the student completes their coursework and graduate from Mississippi State University,
they would come back to Arkansas for every year that they practiced here in Arkansas, met the requirements that are spelled out here with the large animal care for 30% of their time, we would repay 20% of the out-of-state portion of the tuition. And we would do that for
Speaker 30
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five years in order to complete that repayment. And do we have a number
as far as what that amount might be?
Representative Jeremy Gillam
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would be $25,000 per student is the difference between the SREB portion and the in-state tuition. I think it's a little over $15,000, somewhere right in there. $16,000 is what the in-state portion would be, and so about $25,000 per student would be what the portion that Arkansas would be assisting with. Are you saying total?
Speaker 23
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No, per year. Okay. Yes, sir. Sorry. Just trying to get a little clarification. And I believe
Representative Jeremy Gillam
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the dean and my speakers from Mississippi State would be able to also clarify that. All right, sir. Representative Smith, do you have
Speaker 23
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a question? Yes, I do. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Representative Garry L. Smith
Unverified
10:14
Representative Gilliam, I appreciate you bringing this bill. Where is it in the bill that it talks about the 30% time to repay and 20% forgiveness? Is it in this bill, or is it codified already?
Representative Jeremy Gillam
Unverified
10:33
If you'll give me one second to make sure that I
don't speak out of turn, Representative Smith. My understanding is that part of it is codified in some language already due to the SREB boards. and then I think Representative Gene made page 3, line
Speaker 8
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20. Thank you, Representative. Yes, I see it.
Representative Garry L. Smith
Unverified
11:04
Okay, and I too visited with the Mississippi State personnel in regard to this because, as you're all aware, I've been very much involved in trying to create a larger relief for the veterinarians and to help our people in the large animal industry. I think this is the right time to do. I'm curious as to how much money, what's the physical impact of this? Do you know?
Representative Jeremy Gillam
Unverified
11:28
Yes, sir. What we're going to be looking at when the
time comes, let me get this here.
You're looking at probably an average, and this is an approximate because of cost fluctuations and things. In year one, the first entry class is going to be $125,000 would be what we would be repaying back. And, of course, that would grow until we reached the full complement of having all four classes in at one time. And then you would begin to have the rotation of the first class graduating and coming off as the fifth
Representative Garry L. Smith
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12:01
class came in. And excuse me if I may be slightly wrong in this, but I think there's a pool of applicants, am I right, that could apply to Mississippi State.
And without this bill, that pool could mean that John or Susie or whoever would sit in a group of 600 or so, maybe larger number, may or may not get picked, may or not become successful in their pursuit of a veterinary science degree. And so this would help alleviate some of that to the tune of at least five students. Is that right? You're exactly right, Representative
Representative Jeremy Gillam
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12:38
Smith. And that is one, I think, key points of this bill is that that pool is going to be among Arkansas students.
And so we are going to be able to make sure that we have five Arkansas students who get the chance to pursue their career and their passion. It
Representative Garry L. Smith
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12:54
gives the five students a guaranteed right-of-way to get into that Mississippi State University. Yes,
Speaker 13
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sir. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Any other questions by the committee? If not,
we'll go to the audience. Is there anyone in the audience that would like to speak against this bill? Seeing no one, we have some people signed up for the bill.
First on the list is Mr. Kent Noblet. Is that an N or an H? I'm sorry. I apologize. Sir, if you'd have a seat at the table and recognize yourself for the record, you may begin. Kent Hoblitt, Dean of
Speaker 41
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the College of Veterinary Medicine at Mississippi State University. I do have a handout, a one-page handout that they're distributing now that covers some of what I will talk about and some of what already has been covered.
First, Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you for the opportunity to come and talk in favor of this bill. We at Mississippi State believe it's of mutual benefit both to the state of Arkansas in terms of getting veterinarians back here with rural practice interest. And we also think it's a benefit to us. We're looking at this self-serving in the terms that we get really good students when we have contracts. And we at Mississippi State have an interest in rural veterinary practice, and we think this is a way to augment our program.
We get plenty of applications. Last year we started with about 1,300 applications for 85 seats. When it came down to how many were completed, there were 905 complete applications for 85 seats. So when we get into the tables, I can show you how this will help ensure that Arkansas students get more of a chance. Just a bit about our college. We are fully accredited. There are only 28 colleges of veterinary medicine in the United States today.
We have about 105 faculty. we have graduated 30 classes. Our first class graduated in 1981. We now have over 1,300 graduates practicing all over the United States and across the world. Some of the distinctives, and they're listed there on that, and I want to call to your attention, listed on the one-pager. Last year, we had a 98.6% pass rate on the National Board exam. It says 99, so we rounded up, but it was one person had not passed by graduation and that person then subsequently
passed in November. We routinely have 100% of our graduates employed within six months after graduation, and two of the last five years we led the nation in placement among the 28 veterinary colleges for internships and residencies. One of the things I think that makes our college distinctive in terms of rural veterinary practice is our curriculum. It's a two plus two. We have two years of preclinical, and then like most medical schools, we have two years of clinical hands-on training.
This first three years are the same for all students. All students take all species as opposed to some veterinary colleges. And then the fourth year, they go into areas of emphasis, externships, and things that we think make our education truly distinct. I would like to direct you now to the handout, and I've gone through and just circled some things in red that for the coming year, coming academic year, our resident tuition, as Representative Gilliam has said, is $15,600 per year, and then the non-resident is $39,847.
The difference is what the SREB contracts. We have five SREB contracts with South Carolina and five with West Virginia, both of whom do not have their own colleges of veterinary medicine. And so we're going to hold that tuition will be for this next year. We raised tuition a year ago. If you look at how this would work from our perspective and what has been alluded to down into the boxes, We take 85 students per class.
That's one of the smaller schools in terms of numbers, and we don't intend to get bigger than that. We like our student-faculty ratio and the individual attention our students get. We are going to take 40 Mississippians, 5 South Carolinians. Last year there were 70 South Carolinians for this class coming in this fall. 70 South Carolinians applied for those five seats. If it turns out like it did in the past, we'll give five seats for SREB contracts.
Those students will come in paying in-state tuition. A sophomore class this year actually has 12 South Carolinians, so seven got accepted into the at-large pool and chose to come paying their own out-of-state tuition. Five West Virginians, that contract has just been for the last two years. And then, currently, we take 35 non-resident, non-contract seats. And for those, keep in mind, for that group of acceptance, there were 905 qualified on-paper applicants.
So the non-contract, non-resident seats, there are about 700 people apply for those seats. And so they're very, very competitive. If this bill passes and it becomes law, next year what we would do, and this could happen this fall, we've got five Arkansas students that are on the alternate list out of that at-large pool that we would offer seats to, assuming that there will be a paper they have to sign saying they would come back and do 30% rural practice or large animal practice.
We would then take 40 Mississippians, five South Carolinians, five West Virginians, five Arkansans, and we would drop our non-resident, non-contract pool from 30 to 35. So we're not adding seats. We're substituting seats from the Arkansas pool. In years going forward, the Arkansas students would only compete against Arkansas students. You would have five seats reserved, and five Arkansans would get in, assuming five met the requirements, met our requirements.
That is pretty much what I have to share with you, and again, I thank you for the chance to come and speak in favor of this bill.
Speaker 29
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Thank you, sir. Representative Ratliff, do you have a question? You will take questions, won't
Speaker 49
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you, sir? will thank you thank you mr chairman I just got a small question here how much you think it costs to start a
Speaker 41
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vet school well that's a it's good question because
a couple years ago South Carolina or not South Carolina Connecticut does not have a vet school and they they hired a consultant to have been a dean at another vet school and they checked and it came out to 500 million dollars just to start-up costs thank you sir representing link thank
Speaker 51
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you mr. chair I guess this kind of joint question for representative Gilliam and yourself we're entering into a contract with
Representative Kelley Linck
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20:36
university and are we with this legislation representative Gilliam given the Department of Higher Education the authority to enter in that contract or is this legislation entering that contract if it does there's no end to it and and i'm not
Representative Jeremy Gillam
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20:51
going to speak on behalf of the director broadway because i think he's going to come and speak on this here in just a few minutes so i apologize if i don't answer your question fully but i'd like to defer to make
sure that that he is able to speak accurately on behalf of the higher department
of higher education if he's going to be here i'm sure he'll represent broad i mean represent excuse me ex-senator Broadway the interim director of higher ed just stepped into the room mr. Broadway do you have a comment on this yeah thank you sir
please identify yourselves and you may begin Shane Broadway interim director
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Department of Higher Education. Philip Axelroth, Interim Financial Aid Manager for the Department
Speaker 62
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of Higher Education. June Morgan, Coordinator for the Arkansas Health Education. Would
Speaker 64
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you please turn your mic on? Sorry, June. Very sorry. June Morgan, Coordinator for the Arkansas Health Education Grant Program with the Arkansas Department
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of Higher Education. And June, Mr. Chairman, June may be the best. She works with this program with SREB Compact
Speaker 67
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that we have. He and Phil can probably answer the question faster than I could try to answer that for you.
So, Andrew, Phil, I'll let you all address the question that was asked. Yes, ma'am. We already have the ability to enter into the agreement with Mississippi State by law. I
Speaker 69
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think that was the question that was inquired. Yes. The answer to
Speaker 67
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that question is yes. We already have that ability. this bill has not changed that authority. This really establishes the way the, currently for most of those programs, and June can correct me and Phil can if I'm wrong, for most of those
programs in health-related fields, we pay up front the out-of-state tuition. What we have as a department over the last several years wanted to go to, outside of those already established, if there's been a new program that's been warranted, we have moved to a loan repayment. program so that we can it better allows us the opportunity to make sure that they come back to Arkansas to be able to check and we have rules in process and as we would with this program to verify that they move back to Arkansas that we have a way to verify that they're in the practices
as stated in the bill so we have preferred and worked with Representative Gillum from his initial draft to make it a loan repayment program and that's essentially what this bill does we already We have the ability to contract with Mississippi State to add slots as part of that compact. MR. We
have, Mr. Broadway? MR. Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman. MR. We do have, I understand we do have PACs or contracts with other schools now on other
subject-related matters. How many students are we talking about?
Do you have any idea that's under this type of contract?
Speaker 64
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MS. For veterinary medicine, Mr. Chairman? MR. No, I was thinking overall. MS. Overall, in the Arkansas Health Education Grant Program, we probably have 300 to 400 in six medical fields. Veterinarian medicine is just one
of those fields. Yes, ma'am. So we're talking about adding five more slots. Yes. Okay, everybody understand that. Very good. Any other questions for this group of experts or any other questions for the gentleman at
the end of the table? If not, you all may be excused. Thank you very much for your testimony. Is there anyone now in the audience that wants to speak against this bill? For
the bill, we have Wayne Grosche. I apologize again. You know how the
Mississippi people are. Mr. Grosche, if you'd identify yourself at the end
Speaker 78
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of the table, you may begin your testimony. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I'm not a Mississippian. I'm a native born in Arkansan.
My sincere apology, sir. But
Speaker 77
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I spent 23 years across the river working for Mississippi State University in the program and served as an instructor for most of these 30 classes he's talking about. And I think this is a good opportunity for the students of Arkansas. And they put a federal program through last year, and the state of Arkansas worked hard through the State Veterinarian's Office
and the Veterinary Medical Association and some of the rest of us worked on it trying to qualify for that and we got zero funding on that. And it was a loan repayment program. So this is an opportunity for Arkansas to kind of right that wrong too. That's really all I have. All right, sir, do we have questions?
Seeing no questions, thank you, sir, so much for coming and giving your testimony. Anyone want to speak against the bill?
The final person to speak before the bill is Mr. Lee Tyner. I hope I got that right. I was 0 for 2 so far. If you would have a seat, sir, and recognize yourself,
Speaker 83
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you may begin. Lee Tyner, and I am an Arkansas native as well. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the opportunity to address the committee. I'd like to say that I think this is a tremendous opportunity. I've been on the faculty at Mississippi State for 15 years. I applied to veterinary school in 1966 as an Arkansas resident.
It was pretty tough to find a position at that time. An opportunity like this would have really helped me have more opportunity. I actually went to the University of Missouri. Excuse me. I practiced in Conway for 12 years, and I can share with you that the experiences that we offer students at Mississippi State and the Arkansas students we have at Mississippi State currently are among the best, and our opportunity, as Dean Hobbitt mentioned, is a tremendous opportunity, and we have a great relationship with the Arkansas students, and
many do return. We had our state meeting recently, and we had about 30 people from Arkansas come to our meeting. So we want to maintain that opportunity and work with you any way we can to enhance this opportunity for the Arkansas students to become veterinarians. We know that we need more large animals in Arkansas. Thank you. Thank
you, sir. Anyone have questions, Mr. Tyner? Thank you, sir, very much. Thank you.
Anyone have comments from the audience? If not, Mr. Gillum, would you like
Representative Jeremy Gillam
Unverified
27:47
to close for your bill? Yes, sir. I would like to just say two quick things here in closing. One, we did make sure there was some language in here and in consultation with Representative Edwards to protect those individuals who might be called back to military service so that they would not be penalized in any way, shape, form, or fashion. And so this bill does cover that to make sure that they're not adversely affected by their service and sacrifice to our country.
And in closing, I just want to thank the committee, and Mr. Chairman, thank you again for this opportunity this morning. This is something I believe that we have an opportunity to make a lasting impact on our state. And that's a question we ask ourselves a lot down here is what we're doing and is it going to matter and is it going to have that lasting effect. And I do believe with my heart that this is a bill that will have a lasting impact on our state and this agriculture and will help the benefit of our students and give them the opportunities as representative
Smith mentioned earlier the opportunity to fulfill their education and their passion and with that I'm closed
and I would ask for a good vote thank you again for the consideration thank you sir representative love I
Speaker 13
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believe you have a motion motion recommend do pass we
have a motion do pass all in favor of the motion say aye opposed like congratulations recommend you pass your bill thank you and I also want to thank the gentleman from Mississippi State for coming up and testifying for this bill I know it's a quite
a challenge to come all this way but welcome the natives of Arkansas welcome back maybe you can find some more roots back up here or something. Thank y'all. We now
move to House Bill 1803. Representative Benedict. Ms.
Benedict, if you would recognize yourself, you may begin.
Representative Lori Benedict
Unverified
29:54
And I believe you have an amendment. Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm Representative Lori Benedict from Salem in Fulton County, and
Speaker 96
30:11
I do have an amendment. Okay. We'll hand that amendment out now. This amendment just changes the word in
Representative Lori Benedict
Unverified
30:17
the title of the bill from immunization to testing. That would be in the title, act to be entitled, and subtitle on the bill.
Let's let these amendments get handed out, and let's take care of the amendment first, Representative.
Speaker 57
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seeing the amendment is there any questions on the amendment
If not, what's the pleasure of the committee on the amendment?
We have a motion do pass on the amendment. All in favor say aye. Aye.
Speaker 13
31:18
Opposed like saying, the amendment passes. Representative Benedict, now you can speak
Representative Lori Benedict
Unverified
31:30
Chairman. Thank you, members. Coggins is the name given to a blood test which identifies equine infectious anemia in horses. Our current law requires all horses in the state to have blood samples sent by an accredited
veterinarian to an approved laboratory for testing annually. According to Arkansas Farm Bureau, there are approximately 170,000 horses in the state and approximately 65,000 tests being performed annually. That means there are approximately 105,000 horses not being tested annually. Of the 65,000 blood tests performed each year for the last two years, that's 130,000 tests,
Only three horses have tested positive in the last two years. At an average cost of $30 per test, it costs $3,900,000 to find three horses with equine infectious anemia. That's $1,300,000 per horse. This is exactly what Parliamentarian Tim Massanelli means when he says it's all about the money. No matter what anybody tells you, it's all about the money.
This bill defines a new category of certified herds on page 2, line 29. Certified herds means a herd in which every horse in the herd has been tested three years in a row and no positive result for EIA has shown up. The exemption to the current law would allow mares only Only mares in a certified herd Which are kept for breeding purposes only
This means these mares are not handled, not ridden, not taken to shows, not used They are kept on the farm only for breeding purposes They do not leave the facility And the exemption would be that they be tested every five years instead of every year Colts sold, horses going to show, trail ride, or for any reason leaving the facility, or any new horse brought to the facility, must still be tested annually.
It is very unlikely, in my opinion, that a mare in this herd that would be afflicted with EIA, that it would not show up in another horse in the herd, or most likely in its very own colt, seeing the only ones exempt are these mares that are used for breeding. If one horse in a herd shows up positive, the herd is no longer certified and all horses again in that herd must be tested annually.
If three horses in any one county, and our county's most afflicted by this would be in the southeastern part of the state, if any three in a county test positive, then Then that county and all the surrounding counties revert back to the current law with no exemptions. This was in Amendment No. 1, the First Amendment, which is added at the very end on the last page of the bill. The purpose and intent of this exemption, other than cost to the breeder, is to avoid
injury to the mayors when they are gathered into corrals for working and to encourage those owners of the 105,000 horses that are not being tested every year to become certified breeders. I would now like to introduce my guest, horse breeder Danny Perryman, to help you understand what is involved with the breeder having to comply with this law. Thank you, Representative Benedict. Mr. Perryman,
Representative John Burris
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35:26
if you'll state your name and title for the record and offer any comments
Speaker 103
35:37
Perryman, horse breeder. Mr. Chairman, this is pretty self-explanatory to me. We've been bleeding these horses for years. The law has worked. It's been very successful. And I think that this amendment that we're trying to add to it It shows the success that we've had with it.
The thing that all of us are running into is horse breeders. I have a sale at home every two years and sell my colts and horses. Whenever you have to handle these mares, a lot of these mares have never been broke. A lot of them have never been handled. And I think that would be in most herds, you'll find that if they've got very many horses.
And we get horses beat up and banged up and crippled. Just this last fall, I got a colt's leg broke. I got a mare that was heavy and full. When you crowd them together, they fight. Anybody that's got horses or a fool with any nose that, they bite and kick. and I got a mare kicked and she died. But needless to say, that don't happen every time, but it sure happens a lot of the time. In my case, when I get unfolding this spring,
I'll have somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 horses. And so, you know, I'm for this bill 100%. I think we saw this in the Bangs cattle deal a few years ago. Herds became certified. If these herds go for this period of time and don't have any Coggins horses come out of them
and and and produce of this herd is tested every year and you know i have to sell some because i i've raised too many of them to keep if they if they come out of these certified herds i think it looks good on the reputation of our state i think it looks good on the reputation of our herds and And it saves a lot of time, effort, and expense and injury.
It would save a lot of that because we're having to handle these horses that often. My mares get handled, we worm them in the spring. We get them up and we wean the colts and we worm them and we bleed them. And so every time you do that, they get a little bit more resistant about being handled and things. We don't handle these broodmare herds that often.
Yes, sir. Would you take questions? Yes, sir. Reverend Demeeks. Thank
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
38:51
you, Mr. Chairman. A question I have, just for my knowledge, the anemia, would you explain a little bit about what that does and the concerns that
Speaker 103
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prompt it to be tested statewide? the the concerns was was the the infectious anemia
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
39:09
at the time what what's it do to an animal or
Speaker 103
39:13
how does it oh you know what I can't 25 or 30 years ago I
bought and sold slaughter horses I bought horses from the prison down here for years and sold them geldings to use and place up. I have owned Coggins horses back in that time when I was buying them and selling them that were thin. Their hair was dull, but I've also owned more of them that were fat and slick and you wouldn't
know anything was wrong with them. Now, under no circumstances would I be in favor of doing away with a testing requirement because the states around us have one, but we have a much more complex law even than the adjoining states. But folks come into our sales, and these gentlemen that are with me, they have a little association and a sale,
And folks come in there from sometimes 10, 12, 15 states. So absolutely, we want to keep the thing under control, and we want folks to know that they can come to Arkansas or to our herds and rest assured that they're going to buy a horse with a current negative Coggins. All right, sir.
Speaker 49
40:53
Yes. How is this cog and spread from one horse to the next? Blood to blood. Just
Speaker 81
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blood to blood. That's all I know of. Blood to
Speaker 49
41:05
blood. That's all I've ever heard. So would it be possible for a horse to fly at your place and carry it a mile over
Speaker 103
41:17
another place and bring it to your herd? How far? A mile away. Well, according to testimony we heard and research that was told to us whenever this first came in, no.
Okay. I was just curious. They, I believe, if I remember right, they told us that even a quarter of a mile, they couldn't do it. Thanks, sir. And to be honest with
you, I'm not sure anybody knows. Representative Lenderman, you have
Representative Homer Lenderman
Unverified
41:52
a question? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You mentioned about the distance.
Do you have horses that are adjacent to public right-of-ways? Roads? Yes, sir. Yes. Okay. If it is transmitted blood-to-blood, and following up on Mr. Ratliff's question, if you had a hot horse out there in the pasture and I rode my horse down the road, a fly bites your horse a hot horse and flies over and bites my horse my horse just got a death sentence
Speaker 103
42:22
is that true or not? No, and I don't think anybody that's ever done any research on that will agree with that I've never heard any
and I've spent quite a bit I'm not a veterinarian there's probably some here but I do not concur with that at all and I don't think anybody else will I'm not saying it couldn't happen we know anything can happen But it's not very likely. For one thing, if you've got a herd of broodmares, and we're talking about a breeding herd here because we know that if you ride that horse out on a public road, if you haul that horse out on a public road, the one you're riding,
he had to have a current negative Coggins test, right? That's correct. Yes. So these herds of horses are not standing lined up against the road to start with. And the other thing is if you know there's a hot horse over there, why is he still there? I mean, why is he there? I wouldn't leave a hot horse in my herd. Current law requires that a horse that
Representative Homer Lenderman
Unverified
43:25
tests positive for EIA be euthanized within 20 days. Is that correct? I can't say about that.
Speaker 103
43:32
I don't know anything about the time frame. Especially since I haven't handled any slaughter horses in years. I've run a horse sale there at Salem for 30, close to 40 years, 30-something years. But since they no longer slaughter horses in the United States, I'm not sure of the time restraints you have from the time they, because they have to go to Mexico or Canada now. So I honestly can't address that 20-day thing.
Representative Homer Lenderman
Unverified
44:02
Are you aware that there is a horse tested positive this year,
Speaker 111
44:07
in 2011? I saw that, yes, sir. I sure did.
Representative Homer Lenderman
Unverified
44:11
You mentioned, well, question. Do you take outside mares? Do you breed outside mares? No. So your herd is sealed and does not have other animals come into it. Is that correct? Well, you
Speaker 103
44:22
know, if I think I can improve my herd, I'll buy one. But it will be tested.
Representative Homer Lenderman
Unverified
44:28
Okay. My question is, do you let someone bring mares onto your place?
Speaker 103
44:32
I don't breed outside mares. If I've got anything you want, you're going to have to
Representative Homer Lenderman
Unverified
44:42
going to breed your mare. Okay. We mentioned about the brucellosis eradication. I believe you mentioned that. That program has been very, very successful. But I believe it was in 1980 or the late 70s that brucellosis was almost eradicated. We relaxed the testing requirements, and brucellosis came back in full force in the state,
and it took 17 years before we were declared brucellosis free. Are you aware of that?
Yes. I am. Does this bill address the distance from a public road that horses must be kept?
Speaker 103
45:19
Not anywhere that I've seen, and I don't, to be real honest
Speaker 114
45:22
with you, I don't think it's practical to even have it in there, a distance
Representative Homer Lenderman
Unverified
45:28
from the road. Well, if that horse, if it's carried blood to blood, obviously a vector could carry that,
and there's got to be some kind of a distance. They're not going to carry it to another state or 100
miles, but obviously there has to be some kind of distance at
Speaker 103
45:50
which that vector could transmit that disease through the blood. Obviously there has to be. You know, again, I'm trying to operate from memory, and you're talking about things that have to do with research, and somebody might be more knowledgeable than I am, But I'm going to say that I believe that I have read that a vector has to deliver that blood to the bloodstream of a host within something like three or four seconds.
Now, there'd be somebody here probably can tell you that. It may be 30 seconds, but it's a very short time that they've got to transmit it. Now, that's what I've
Representative Homer Lenderman
Unverified
46:38
read. Have you ever seen a
Speaker 103
46:41
horse die with this? I've never seen one that I knew died with it.
Representative Homer Lenderman
Unverified
46:47
Have you ever seen a horse that
Speaker 103
46:51
came down full-blown? Yeah, well, you know, like I say, you know, I used to ship from 150 to 450 a week.
And I've seen, I guess I've seen about every stage of it, probably. I've seen horses it affects differently than others. But, you know, full-blown Define full-blown to me And I'll tell you if I've seen it A horse showing clinical symptoms
Representative Homer Lenderman
Unverified
47:25
prior to death I haven't
Speaker 103
47:28
seen that I've seen, like I say I've seen lots of horses come from
Over in the Delta Southeast Arkansas mainly is where I've seen most of them, although I've seen them all over the state, I guess. But most of them I've seen was one of two ways. They were either the gums were pale, the eyes were pale, the hair was dull, and they were thin.
But I'm going to say that 60 to 75 percent of them, just to look at them, you wouldn't know anything was wrong with them. Now, I'm saying 60 to 75 percent of what I've seen. I don't think you'd know anything was wrong with them. But, hey, I'm not denying that there is a Coggins. And we're not here to advocate at all that you stop testing.
We're not here to advocate that you do away with the law. We want it. We need it. We need the law. But what we don't feel like we need at this point, because of the success that the law has brought about, we don't need the added expense. If you have $300, I don't know what anybody else pays. If I get a quick test from my vet at West Lanes, Missouri, they charge
All right, sir, we have a number of other questions. Could we move on just a little bit? Sure, sure. Thank you, sir. Reverend Linderman, were you finished? I got one more question. You mentioned you
Representative Homer Lenderman
Unverified
49:18
had a foal to get his leg broke when you got him up to work him. And you mentioned that you got him up and dewormed him every year. Twice a year. Twice a
Speaker 103
49:29
year. You're getting them up anyway. Well, I'm getting them up anyway, but I may not be getting them all up at one time. I do it on my time frame for one thing, and for another, it may need to be done at a time that my vet can't be there for two days
or three days in a row to bleed them all. So I don't, you know, but yes, we gather them. Yes, we gather them to wean the colts off. I usually worm and wean and try to in August. So while I've got them up, I wean the colts then. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let's move on to Representative Collins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And,
Representative Charlie Collins
Unverified
50:11
again, I'm no horse expert, but I know when it comes to taxes and spending,
I love the idea of broaden the base and decrease the rate. So if our goal here is to reduce the cost and the number of tests because the number of incidents has gone down over the years because we've been so successful, what would you think about a solution which was something like instead of annual testing for all horses, it was testing every 18 months for all horses? I wouldn't be in
Speaker 103
50:41
favor of it. Why not? Because I think you've got it just about as close as you can get it.
I think it needs to be done at least on horses that's going to be moved or sold. Now, I'm not interested in helping anybody dodge the Coggins test. And I'm not trying to do away with the law. Don't misunderstand me. But I believe that because of the success that the program has brought through the years,
and to just keep going on and on and on with it the way it is, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me dollar-wise for the state or for the horse producers, especially at a time when our horses are worth probably a third of what they were worth a few years ago, you know, three or four or five years ago. So with the economy down, and of course we're talking about money here.
Speaker 114
51:58
And if I was a vet, I'd want to do all of them. And
Speaker 103
52:04
that's what they do, and thank God for them. But I just quoted you 300 horses at $30 a horse. $9,000 a year is what that amounts to. Thank you.
Speaker 141
52:17
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, sir. Representative
Representative Mark Perry
Unverified
52:22
Perry. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You mentioned, I'm seeing the size of the horses, of the herds.
As you mentioned, you've sold anywhere from $150 to $400 a week, and then I heard also there's not a slaughterhouse in the United States. So as these herds get bigger, what do we do to minimize the size of these herds? How do you get
Speaker 103
52:45
rid of a horse? Well, the economics of it will do it at some point, you know. And I don't know what to tell you about that, but I'm not sure that the Coggins test is going to determine that we need we need killer plants in the United States I
mean that's my that's that's my personal observation I'm not going to fight with anybody that don't want them but we need them it's dollars and cents and I think that's the best the the best outlet we've got right now we don't even have any word to sell our old our our broodmares that get too old to produce Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have one more question. Representative Stewart. Yes, Mr. Chair. Thank you.
Representative Randy Stewart
Unverified
53:31
I came in a little bit late, but on page 3 I noticed
that you've taken out the commission on line 3 there. Page 3, line 3. The commission means Arkansas Livestock and Poultry Commission. You've stricken that definition, but in three other places I see the word commission. Which commission What are we talking about then? We are talking about Arkansas livestock and
Representative Lori Benedict
Unverified
53:58
poultry. I don't know why the attorney would have you I don't know why he would have struck it from
that particular line there. My only. And he
Representative Randy Stewart
Unverified
54:10
noticed that on the bottom page of page two, he struck it again and just put the word commission without a definition to tell you who that is. MS. Okay.
Representative Lori Benedict
Unverified
54:22
Now, on line six on page two, or that would be live seven, it says approved by the Commission Arkansas Livestock and Poultry Commission. So he has it in there. I don't know why attorneys
Representative Randy Stewart
Unverified
54:33
do some of these things. MR. Okay. On line seven, I agree, and that line is not written correctly by the Commission Arkansas
Representative Lori Benedict
Unverified
54:40
Livestock and Poultry Commission. MS. have on line two on line seven
it's uh underlined as being put in a new place is what i imagine it's underlined there so that must be put in there and must be taken
Speaker 150
54:54
out somewhere else and i'll just clarify that you did mean that connection
Representative John Burris
Unverified
54:59
it is yes thank you representative burris thank you mr chairman thank you representative stewart if uh miss benedict representative benedict there's any technical language with the technical problems with the language in the bill, would you, we can go back to the drafters, would you have that
correct in an amendment in the Senate or on the floor before we move forward, if we review that with the drafters and we need to change something, you can? Yes,
we would. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions by the committee? If not, thank you, sir, for your testimony. Thank you. We'll now go to the audience. And first on the list to speak against this bill is Mr. Mack
Hayden. And he has a handout that we'll hand out at this time. Mr. Hayden, if you'll go to the end of the table and recognize yourself. Sir, you may begin.
Mack Hayden
Unverified
55:54
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm going to let the handouts get out, if that would be all right, sir. And I'll start with, I want to qualify who I am. My name is Mack Hayden. I'm past chairman of the Arkansas State Horse Show Association, which is the largest open horse show in the United States, and it's held right here in Arkansas. I'm the first Arkansas equine chairman for Farm Bureau. I'm first national equine chairman for Farm Bureau. I'm past chairman of the Arkansas Valley Horse Show Association.
I'm an American Farriers Association certified farrier. I'm a horseshoer. i'm on the livestock and poultry commission i'm on the agriculture department i train show and shoe horses i've won state championships i've been in the top 10 in the state probably 15 times i've run one regional championships my daughter grandbabies
show horses and have won championships also i am a horse show judge and while doing all that i've retired from the arkansas state police trooper 27 years i'm the only man in the history of the state police ever been trooper the year twice thank you for having me today what was handed out uh sir is letters and i will start with the first one from the arkansas oklahoma Cutting Horse Association. There's approximately 2,500 members in the state and 5,000 plus head
of horses. These folks, again at the bottom it says, the cutting horse industry of Arkansas would like to see the EIA Act 1306 remain as a model for other states. We have a good law, do not change it. The next page, the Rodeo Ozarks, one of the largest rodeos in the state of Arkansas. They have a strong working relationship with the Arkansas Poultry and Livestock Commission to ensure the safety of the equine industry in Arkansas. They want to leave the act the
same it is. Do not change it. Dr. Tate is here. He'll talk for the Arkansas Veterinary Association. I have a letter from them to be next. Arkansas Veterinary Medical Association is against this change. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Mr. Pepper couldn't be here today. Earl Pepper, a dear friend of mine, Arkansas Department of Corrections. Folks, y'all may not know this, but that's the largest herd of horses in the state of Arkansas. They have 500 plus horses.
They use these horses as chase horses in their agricultural operations and for regional maintenance. They're against the change. Arkansas-Missouri Foxtrotter Association, David Hillman, they're against the change. The Arkansas State Horseshoe Association, who I'm dearly tied to and have been for many years, there's 12 associations. There's several thousand people in this association. They don't want to change also. Next one, the Arkansas Quarter Horse Association
Jerry Fuller This letter will serve as a notice to our opposition of House Bill 1803 They feel like it would have a serious impact on the horses in the state of Arkansas And the Arkansas Horse Shares Association Also opposed Bill 1803 You know, for me, the question is who would police the herds that were left alone. You know, he's got 300 head of horses.
I'd like to know who knows how many come and go. If the herd becomes certified, how do we know that that certified horse would stay there? You know, who's going to say the horse died or didn't die? Who's going to say the horse moved or didn't move? I'm not going to question the integrity of the gentleman, But there is folks out there that deal in trading horses every day. They'll buy and sell papers and sell you something that's not true. We have one of the best EIA laws in the nation.
He's correct. They are. I helped write that. I walked the halls here and helped put it together. And we have eradicated, not all of it, but we have worked at it to get this disease out of Arkansas. And with that handout, you can see there's thousands, not hundreds, thousands of horse owners and horse people in the state of Arkansas that would oppose any change to our bill. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Hayden. Representative Collins, do you
Speaker 3
1:00:58
have a question? Yes, Mr. Chair. Yes. Sir, thank you very
Representative Charlie Collins
Unverified
1:01:04
much for your testimony and also for your service. and I think everyone agrees that the process so far to eradication has been wonderful and now that we're at this good place, the question arises. The great expense that people are going through to get to this place, necessary, wonderful, and done. So my question to you is, would there be an opportunity to extend the testing period from 12 months
to, say, 18 months or 15 months or 13 months or some number like that, which would give cost relief to horse owners but not put your wonderful law in jeopardy and not cause the disease to re-sprout up in Arkansas? Yes, sir. Let me answer
Mack Hayden
Unverified
1:01:52
the same way that gentleman did. It worked at 12 months. It's a price to do in business. In five counties around me, the test a horse is $20.
The cheapest horse I've got on my place right now is probably $15,000, and that's a cheap horse. Our shoe horse is well over $100,000 to $150,000 in cutting horses. So it's an investment in your horses and your way of doing business. As this gentleman says, his cost is $9,000. He's in the horse business. If he's in the horse business, he's got to know that's part of the cost of doing business. And being part of the cost of doing business, and as well as the law is written,
our horse folks are really happy with the 12-month. Yeah, and I understand
Representative Charlie Collins
Unverified
1:02:44
it's a cost of doing business. Yes, sir. One of the things I'd like to help people is with reducing the cost of doing business. So that's one of the things I'm here to do. And I understand how good it is. and if there's something specific about 12 months medically that hasn't changed or whatever, awesome. But if 14 months would protect our horses as well as 12 months, yet reduce the amount of money we're spending on it,
it seems worthwhile to at least look at it to me, unless there's a specific reason why 14 months or 15 months is bad.
Mack Hayden
Unverified
1:03:17
Yes, sir. We have two veterinarians that are going to testify also, and they may have that answer. All right. Thank you, sir. Thank
Speaker 13
1:03:27
you, Mr. Chairman. Seeing no other questions, I'm sorry, Representative Linderman. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Representative Homer Lenderman
Unverified
1:03:33
Yes, sir. Mr. Clayton, I have, I guess, one question. We've talked about the success of eradication and other programs. Is there any requirement, and one of the things that we do,
and you mentioned in your testimony the identification of these animals. Do we have anything in place that would require permanent identification of horses, such as lip tattoos, branding, microchip? Yes, sir, all those. We have those available, but are they required in this state to identify these tested horses?
No, sir. Okay. Not to my knowledge. In a certified equine, or, I'm sorry. They are required in the bill. In yours? Yes. Okay.
Okay. But at this time, we don't have any way to, that's not a requirement.
Mack Hayden
Unverified
1:04:15
Well, if chipped, tattooed, or branded, we'd still have to have someone that would go to that farm and say, that horse A, B, and C are still there. that 300 horses that are chip-branded or tattooed are still there. The policing aspect to me, sir, is who's going to say that that animal hadn't left and come back? And a good example is right where I live. I have a neighbor next door to me that has several broodmares, and he gives riding lessons, and there's traffic in and out all the time.
So if we didn't test these horses, I would not know that his horses next door are clean if he brought a hot horse in. excuse me
in thank you sir yes sir no other questions thank you mr hayden for your testimony thank you sir the first person on the list speaking for is kenny mccullough is kenny here yes sir please identify yourself and
Speaker 173
1:05:17
you may begin sir i'm kenny mccullough i'm vice president of
The Ozark Foundation Breeders Association, we're
Speaker 174
1:05:23
headquartered close to Mountain Home, Arkansas. The OFBA is a non-profit organization that was set up to help us market our colts. We have a production sale in the fall every year to sell our colt crop, and normally we We have between 100 and 200 horses to sell. I'd like to say really you've got some good comments there about, and I can tell you have
done a little study on this. And again, we're, I think a lot of people think we're trying to just tear this whole program down, and that's not what we're doing. If anything, there's not enough policing of this deal. There's hundreds of thousands of horses out there that are still not getting tested. And what we're saying is that we think the same horses are just getting tested over and over and over and over.
And there's never been an incentive program of this law. It's a law that's out there to have these horses tested every year, but there's never been any kind of incentive program, a reward for trying to do better. There's only a law saying you're going to be penalized if you don't do it. So, and yes, there is some questions. You've got some good questions about there, and I know you're trying to, about the 18-month thing, but that's really, it's not going to help us that much because all the surrounding states, you know,
they've pretty much got a law in effect like that where, you know, if you take them anywhere, they're out there in the public they're gonna have to be tested and i and i do the same i show some horses myself and uh and we go to ropings and things like that uh and and i want if i go to a show i want to be assured that those horses are beside me are coggins free i've got a horse there that i've invested a lot of time in training this horse and i don't want it to get coggins or that's what we call the test for it anyway.
So, you know, and the same thing about the brood mares. You know, we would have to do something to keep those brood mares separated and not by the road. And I think there is some definitions here about a neighboring herd, you know, and it mentions 440 yards, which is a quarter of a mile. And, again, for the folks that's not, and I'm sure the veterinarians will explain a lot about the disease itself here, but the research I've done on the disease itself is, like we said, you have to have a horse that's got it.
There's a fly, a blood-sucking fly or insect bites that horse and then immediately bites another horse and transmission of blood. There is also some research that said that there actually could do it with needles or surgical equipment and things like that so you know there's always that but most of the time when you hear of Coggins it's always like Mr. Perriman said blood to blood so if you had this what we're saying is if you got these brood mares these brood mares are going to stay segregated
they're going to stay separate they're going to be apart from any other herd we're going to keep them and yes most places there will be some horses coming and going but they're going to have to be separated and kept separate from others and you know that's mostly that's what their job is their job is not to be ridden they're to produce a coat for you each year and that's what we're saying we just we just want a reward program incentive program to get those other horses out there that are not getting tested for you to have a reward for doing a good job you know I've been
in the horse business all my life i mean my dad raised horses i've been raising registered quarter horses for 29 years i've never missed raising a colt in the last 29 years i myself i've never seen a horse that had it i've seen horses branded on the neck that you know that said that they did have it but in um but like mr perriman i mean he's been in the horse business longer and i haven't he's probably seen some he had real good questions about if i ever seen one no sir i haven't The thing about it is, the horses that I knew, that people knew that had it,
they looked like perfectly healthy horses. So it seems like there's a lot of controversy about this disease because there's so many unknowns about it. I mean, yes, they can die. Yes, they can, sure enough, die kind of a bad death about it. But at the same time, the only way they can get it, from what I understand, is it's blood to blood. that these animals have tested and tested and tested and tested these brooding mares. Some of them have been tested for years and years. If they ain't got it, if they're not around other horses, they can't get it.
Speaker 173
1:10:20
There's no way. So, anyway. Thank you, Mr. McCullough. Will
you take any questions if there is any? Yes, sure. Any questions by committee? Representative Linderman. Yes,
Speaker 174
1:10:37
sir. Do you breed outside mares? if we had this law passed no sir i wouldn't i don't want to do them anyway i have friends and i do it for a favor if we had this law passed it i would say no sir i'm not going to breed your mares i don't want to breed out there it's too much trouble there it's not worth it really in
this day and time to take a chance of you getting i don't even want to do it really because there's other diseases out there that could be transmitted for breeding and uh if me myself no sir i wouldn't If we had this law passed, I would say, no, I'm not going to breed any more horses just strictly because of that. But I'll also say some of my stallions, I ride my stallions, and so I wouldn't want to get them tested anyway, no matter. Okay, thank you. Seeing no
other questions, thank you, sir, for coming and giving your testimony today.
Thank you for your time. Next to speak against this bill, Dr. George Baddeley. I believe you also have a handout, Dr. Baddeley. Staff will hand that out now. You go to
Speaker 180
1:11:49
the end of the table and recognize yourself. You may begin, sir. I'm George Pat Baddeley. I'm a veterinarian. I'm the Arkansas State Veterinarian. I work for you all.
You all are my boss. So, Act 1306 of 1997 was not Arkansas Law of Stockton-Poultry's bill. It was passed by the horsemen of Arkansas. We had a real problem, and that's why it was passed. every state around us requires that if a horse from Arkansas enters their state
they have to have a negative test within 12 months that's why the 12 month rule and you can't do away with it because of that the original bill that this bill will amend as Act 1306 of 1997 was titled the Act to Prescribe Procedures for the Control and for the Eradication, that is the key word,
for the eradication of equine infectious anemia and for other purposes. Each of you will have a handout that traces the number of horses tested each year and it starts in 1979 goes down and then it changes colors where the law was passed in 1997 and goes on down to 1910
where and in the 1980s there was in the middle of the the 1980s we had 1100 positives because they started dumping horses from other states into this state. In 1997, because of that, we passed this law. That year we had 341 positives. And down to 1910, we had zero positives. And the success of the bill is now being used against it.
This year we've already had one positive. And the question has been asked, are these horses sick? Most of them are not, and that's the truth. However, if your horse becomes positive, he is worthless. You can't do a thing with him. In Arkansas, you have to put him to sleep, but you can't cross the state line with him.
If he was a $2 million stud, he's a $0 million stud because he's worth nothing if he catches this disease because no one with another horse will put it anywhere, anything close to him. I am the chief disease control agent for the state of Arkansas. There are a lot of things I don't know anything about. I'm a veterinarian. I can't fix your car. I'm a veterinarian, but the thing that I do know about is eradication disease programs.
And let me tell you, eradicating a disease is like paddling a boat across a swift river. You get three-fourths of the way over there. You don't pull up the oars and try to coast the rest of the way in. It won't work. We're close. And the second letter that I gave you all is a letter where we met two years ago in Ruston, Louisiana with the representatives of the five high-incidence states for EIA, of which we happen to be one of the five.
The others are Oklahoma, Texas, Louisiana, and Mississippi. They don't call it swamp fever for nothing. We all realize that we are lowering the incidence of this disease and that the testing cost is a burden upon the horse owner. The state animal health departments of all these states realize that. The United States Animal Health Association realizes that.
We want to eradicate the disease so all classes of horses won't have to test for it, not just one class. And we asked the administrator of the United States Department of Agriculture Animal Health and Plant Inspection Service funds for us to do enhanced testing and go door to door
in certain areas of our state where we could get some funding to do that to try to help eradicate this disease. We want to finish the job. However, the administrator said there are no funds available for this at this time, so, but we are still working towards that goal, and we are going to keep
trying to eradicate the disease, because we don't want to, we don't want to stop testing for just one class of horses, like these breeding horses, we want to stop testing for all class of horses. The most over-tested class of horses are the horses that Mr. Hayden told you about, and that's the show horses. They have to test the show. They have no
choice about it, and most of them don't even mind. They consider the cost of showing their horses, and they know they can't show them without testing them. We know We have torsions out here that we aren't testing, and the only way to solve that, my friends, is for me to send my people door to door. And I don't think you all want us to do that, and we don't have the people to do it.
But if we get some funds, then possibly we could do that in certain areas. Dr. Badley, will you accept questions? Yes, I will. I have one other thing I want to say. All right, sir. I am not only a veterinarian. I'm a horse owner. I have three horses. If one of them catches it, I'm going to have a wife and a daughter and a granddaughter that are just going to go berserk on me.
And I don't want a certified herd next to me from what I know of EIA, and I know a lot about it. And I have one barrel racing horse that is 25 years old, and he's had at least 22 straight yearly EIA tests, and it doesn't bother me at all. Now, yes, sir, I will take questions. Thank you, sir. Representative Meeks. Thank you,
Mr. Chairman. It sounds like, looking at
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
1:19:44
these reports, that we're starting to get a pretty good handle on this disease,
and I think everyone at this table would agree that we do need to try to get rid of it. In your opinion, at what point would you be comfortable saying that it looks like we've pretty well got this under control and you would be willing to begin to maybe lack some of the rules or compromise
Speaker 191
1:20:12
in order to help some of these gentlemen that have these large herds?
Speaker 180
1:20:17
Well, once again, this is not my act, but, I mean, this is the Horstman's Act,
and I can't speak for them and myself as a disease control agent. But if we went three years without a positive horse, I'd be hard-pressed to say, well, that we didn't need to reduce the testing, you know. But we also have the states around us to consider and the interstate things.
I mean, it's going to be a hard thing. And what we wanted to do, that's in that letter, is a regional approach, a regionally eradicate the disease where we've got horses. If you go down to Louisiana, those horses, they'll go across that line, and they're not always checked. I'd like to say I check every horse in there that comes into this state, but that would be a lie, sir. and Mr. Badley that doesn't like me telling lies.
So anyway, we need a regional approach to it. And we need to get rid of it and drop the testing for everybody because there is a lot of money involved. So you're thinking if we continue on this trend for three
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
1:21:50
you know, zero or less than ten, that you might be at a point where you could say,
we can go ahead and start to maybe lack some of these rules? I know it's
Speaker 179
1:22:05
a big issue. Well, for me personally, I would say
Speaker 185
1:22:07
that. I can't speak for the horse owners, the other horse owners. Okay. All right. Thank you, Mr.
Chairman. Gentlemen, we're getting very repetitious, and we've got other people to testify. Let's please try and move on. Next, I ask a question from
Speaker 144
1:22:23
Representative Collins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Representative
Representative Charlie Collins
Unverified
1:22:26
Stewart, just help me correct my logic a little bit.
Understand that if somebody takes their horse to another state, that would necessitate that they'd had a Coggins test within 12 months. Yes, sir. But if Arkansas had a rule, for example, where Arkansas required every 18 months, then, of course, anyone that took their horse across state lines would need to meet that 12-month requirement of the other state. But someone whose horses remained in Arkansas, for example, these breeding mares, those horses would be under the 18-month rule. Would that make sense? Could that be a compromise that could work?
Speaker 180
1:23:01
It could be, but right now within the state of Arkansas, going to a horse show, the one-year requirement is the minimum requirement. Some horse shows exceed that requirement their self and require a six-month Coggins. I mean, the thing about a Coggins test, sir, is you draw the blood from the horse, and that day he is negative.
Not next week. Not next month. not 12 months or 18 months that day he is negative from then on it doesn't mean anything I mean that of course we can't go out there and test a horse over 30 days but that the test just means that on that one day and that one day only he was negative thank you thank you Mr. Chairman
Speaker 23
1:24:07
seeing no other questions Thank you, Dr. Baddeley, for your testimony. Thank you, sir, and I appreciate you all having me. Yes, sir. Next on our list to speak for the bill,
Scott Walker
Unverified
1:24:28
Scott Walker. Mind you, please, don't be repetitious. My name is Scott Walker. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm just here to support this bill. We all know that horses are an American icon.
We love these horses. That's why we raise them. Today and time, there's no money to be made in these horses. Today is a different economic time, and all this law is just put a burden on us, and we just want a little help to make raising these horses worthwhile. All right, sir, is there any
questions of this witness? Seeing none, thank you,
sir, for your testimony. Thank you.
Speaking against the bill, Dr. Tate, Dr. Landon Tate. Dr. Tate, if you'll recognize yourself at the
Speaker 196
1:25:23
end of the table, you may begin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Landon Tate, Veterinarian Practices in Mansfield, Arkansas. I'd first like to address you all as a horse owner. My wife rides cutting horses.
And in our pasture, we have right at a quarter of a million dollars where the horse is walking. If one of those horses gets EIA, I drop from a quarter of a million dollar investment to zero because that whole herd is going to be exposed, possibly infected. I don't want a certified herd next to me. I don't even want a certified herd 400 yards from me. Even though science says that that virus cannot live more than a distance of roughly 300 meters,
we still have human factors like broken fences. We have factors like people riding horses that are inapparent carriers. Some of these horses are fat, look good, but they're carriers and they can expose any horse that comes within that
Speaker 197
1:26:46
distance. As a veterinarian, I'm not going to make any statements, but I will accept questions on
the scientific side of this if anyone wants to
ask a question uh excuse me ask a question does any committee member have a question that has not been
Representative Homer Lenderman
Unverified
1:27:07
asked i would like to ask dr tate representative linderman thank you mr chairman i have one that i've asked but hadn't been
answered dr tate a vector bites an infected horse how far can he carry and still infect another horse you You mentioned 300 meters, is that correct? In the literature it says 300 meters.
Speaker 199
1:27:25
300 meters. Yes. Do you believe that to be accurate,
Speaker 197
1:27:28
sir? I have no reason to disqualify that figure. So if
Representative Homer Lenderman
Unverified
1:27:31
we had these certified herds, they would need to be at least 300 meters from any roadway or other herd to prevent them from possibly infecting another equine, is that correct? Through vector transmission, yes. Okay. And in Arkansas, if a horse is tested positive, they must be euthanized within 20 days. Is that correct? I believe that's a law. Yes. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Any other questions? Thank you, Dr. Tate, for your testimony. You're excused. The last person to speak on this bill is for the bill. Is it Glenn Allen? Mr. Allen, if you'll come to
Speaker 203
1:28:16
the end of the table and recognize yourself, you may begin. I'm Glenn Allen, a breeder. I've sat here and listened to this testimony about this Coggins test and that.
I've horse showed all over the United States and crossed several state lines. I'm not opposed to the Coggins test because I have a very expensive horse myself. and i wouldn't be opposed as a breeder to if if getting my herd certified having a certain distance to keep these from the road or any public a negative horse traveling up and down the road in quarantined or in his own little shell away from being contaminated from another horse that
i see here in the paper a hundred and some thousand horses it's not even been tested uh so you know we just we just need some relief here on on our brood program that we can uh that we don't have to submit these mares and and to this testing ever you know every year like we do horses that we travel up and down the road with i've roped all over the united states across several state lines have never been stopped at a state line and checked for coggins test
And I've done that for several years. I do have current Coggins tests on all my horses that I travel. That's all I have to
Speaker 13
1:29:36
say. That's right, sir. Any questions for this witness? If not, thank
you, sir, for your testimony. Is there anyone else in the audience that would like to speak for or against this bill? Yes, sir.
Speaker 15
1:29:55
Sir, if you'd recognize yourself, you may begin. Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the committee.
Jeffrey Hall with Arkansas Farm Bureau. Real briefly, we've had a lot of discussion on this bill. I did want to go ahead and state that Arkansas Farm Bureau does oppose this bill. We visited with Representative Benedict. We agree with her from that conversation that more horses needs to be tested. But the fact is that we feel like, and you've seen it today with testimony, that our program is working, so we do oppose any change to the program I mean, would oppose this certified herd. So with that, I'd be glad to answer any questions.
Any questions to this witness? If not, thank you, sir, for your testimony. Anyone else want to speak for or against
the bill? Seeing none, Ms. Benedict, would you
Representative Lori Benedict
Unverified
1:30:46
like to close for your bill? Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. You have heard testimony today about how good the law has been working, but I don't consider it good enough if less than half of the horses are being tested. I think this bill will encourage or pressure noncompliant herds into attaining a certified status,
thereby increasing the number of tests performed. You have heard testimony about the horses that belong to the Department of Corrections and from the state vet about maintaining a status quo. Quote, these are state employees, some of them, caretakers of horses that are state-owned, and they're spending state money. They are not breeders. You've heard many folks tell you they don't want their horses coming in contact with any of these mares in these herds that might be exempt. But until today, you've never heard their voices heard about the 105,000-plus horses that have not and never have been tested at all.
Not a single letter of complaint has come to this committee, except from today when we wanted to establish a thing as certified herds. None of these 105,000 horses have ever been complained about in the past few years. So why do we have several people here today when no one's been critical of the law for the past several years? Let me quote Mr. Massanelli one more time. No matter what the veterinarian tells you,
it's all about the money. And that's a close quote, not exact.
Thank you. I appreciate a good vote. Thank you, Ms. Benedict. What's the pleasure of the committee? We have a motion. Do pass. All in favor of the motion, say aye. All opposed, like sign. No. My ruling is, Ms. Benedict, your bill failed. Thank you so much.
Speaker 13
1:32:40
we have about 25 minutes members we're going to try and get one more bill in
hopefully this is speaker moore's bill house bill 1903 speaker moore i'm sure there's a lot of people here that don't recognize you so if you'd go to the end of the table and recognize yourself sir
Speaker 51
1:33:04
you may begin Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. I'm Robert Moore. I'm your speaker, in case any of
Representative Robert S. Moore, Jr.
Unverified
1:33:11
y'all are looking down this way. I hope that I can be brief in the presentation of the bill and give you a lot of time to
work on a few other bills. I'm going to ask if, with the pleasure of the committee, when Representative Edwards returns, which he now has returned. He joins me down here. He's done the lion's share of the work on the bill. I'm going to give you a little brief overview, and then I would like, Mr. Chairman, your permission to let
Speaker 207
1:33:41
Representative Edwards talk about the substance of the bill. Yes, sir, Mr. Speaker, and also you
have a handout that we, the staff is handing out
the handout now, and if
Speaker 58
1:33:55
y'all would like, you can just kind of double-team this committee. MR.
Representative Robert S. Moore, Jr.
Unverified
1:34:00
Members, when we began the session, I identified three particular areas of interest to me that were broadly reaching to every citizen of the State of Arkansas, every constituent that we collectively represent. They broadly dealt with the security, safety, and economic development interest of the citizens
of the State of Arkansas. With your help and support, we have won our highway funding bills down in the Senate now. We have our criminal justice revision bill that will be on the House floor this afternoon, and this is the journey of the beginning journey of the third and perhaps most important topic we will address because it addresses our most precious natural resource, the waters of the of Arkansas and how they are used, conserved, preserved, and held for the benefit of people
of the state of Arkansas now and for citizens in the future. This is one of those bills that I described to you. We are blessed with plentiful water in the state of Arkansas, so delving deep into the The planning of the future sometimes is hard to do because we tend to think if we've got plenty of it that we don't have anything to worry about. The increased usage from development and industry, agriculture, population, recreational uses
of our most precious natural resource in the last 22 years since we last updated our water plan has put significant pressures on one of the two sources that we have, and that's our groundwater aquifers. So what this bill basically does is set the fundamental policy of the state of Arkansas regarding the efficient use of its most precious natural resource.
It states that we recognize that of our two sources, we are underutilizing the availability of our surface water, over-utilizing the use of our ground water to meet our agricultural needs. Perhaps in identifying it as our most precious natural resource, it comes to life that it is, because when you start messing with water, you better have everybody at the table,
because everybody from a personal and business and conservation interest is certainly concerned, as we all are about our water rights and usage. To develop this policy, myself and primarily Representative Edwards had a number of policy meetings where, and I'll let him go into the details on this, but where we tried to identify all of the stakeholders and have them at the table to have their input.
put, and I think we were successful in that intent. What we're asking you to do today is pass a bill that sets forth the foundation for our policy. What I will be coming back to you a little later and not hopefully too long from now in the session is looking for funding to actually develop and implement the plan, and that funding will entail the gathering of data, analyzing research, and perhaps most important to everyone
here as regards your constituent, gathering the input from users, personal and industry, business and agriculture. I think as you look at the last five lines on page two of the bill, this is something that is critical to everyone. I won't read through those, but those merely recognize that of the various groups and persons
who have an interest in water policy that we try to identify, that as we move into the development of a water plan, that each of the interests of persons and entities will be recognized as a matter of public policy. With that, Mr. Chair and members, with your indulgence, I'd like to let Representative Edwards talk about the specifics of
Speaker 207
1:38:42
how this was developed and the intents as it moved forward.
Yes, sir. Representative Edwards, please recognize yourself for the
Representative John Charles Edwards
Unverified
1:38:53
record. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm Representative Edwards, and I'm here to talk about this bill. You may begin. We've had a long day already, and I just want to make a couple of quick points before I move on, because I know we've had a lot of issues to discuss, but we are fortunate right now. Number one, we're not having to deal with any kind of nuclear fallout issues in our midst,
and we're not getting ready to jump in some military vehicle to go outside of the wire right now to be in a bad place. So we're not having a bad day. No matter what's going on in this state, we're having a pretty good day in Arkansas. And, Mr. Chairman, I just think every now and then we need to remember that. But with that being said, this bill for me is just part of a journey that I've been on for a number of years regarding water.
And it's a journey that's put me in contact with a wide variety of individuals who have an interest in water in this state. and I can't help but want to quote that great sage Mark Twain right now and he said that whiskey's for drinking and water's for fighting over and there's always someone that will have a point of view when it comes to water policy and what we do but what I think we've got here before you
is a product that as the speaker noted has been a lot of effort and input from a wide variety of sources in trying to craft a common-sense policy that will guide us for the 21st century. The last time this policy statement was updated was in 1957. A lot of things have changed since then. Something else about the policy that was very important to me based upon some comments that I've heard from individuals over the last several years of my life,
and something that I would recommend that everyone in this committee make sure they keep near and dear to their heart. If you will look on page 2 of the bill on line 20, to my knowledge, this is one of the first times that in a statutory language that we've had an acknowledgment of private property rights. And I think there has to be an acknowledgment of private property rights in this state as we go forth in developing any kind of water policy.
And the reason why that's so critical is in members you will see bills from time to time where a law that may work really well in another state may not work so well here. And one of the reasons for that is in our state constitution, it's Article 2, Section 22, we have a provision that is probably the strongest private property rights provision in any state of the nation. I think some legal scholars think it is the strongest provision.
We have to acknowledge that. And if you don't acknowledge it and you're trying to craft any legislation for the future, you're risking the state to unnecessary lawsuits. So I think that's a very critical distinction in this policy. The other thing that I think what we're doing with this particular policy statement There are plenty of statute books that have very specific provisions that deal with specific issues regarding water.
But what we're saying here, we're broadening the statement from back in 57 when the main thing that we were thinking about back then was, you know, what we're going to do with our runoff. We weren't concerned in 57 to the degree that we have today about what will happen with the future of our water, particularly with our aquifers all over the eastern part of the state. And I know that there are individuals such as my colleagues in the extreme northwest corner of the state
that you get your water out of Beaver Lake in many cases, and that's a fine example of what surface water can do. But we are all in this together, and if we have other parts of the state that fail, that's going to put strains on the water supplies we have elsewhere. This is something that we need to stay away from at all costs possible. Now, there have been some questions that have been asked of me, and I want to be very plain and clear on this.
This is a policy statement. The things that will continue on if we're successful in getting the funding to update the Arkansas water plan, that will be handled through the water plan statutes that are there. And one of the interests of the speaker and others that have been so helpful in looking at this issue is that we want there to be a lot of public input about how we proceed
in the future. There has to be a lot of public input in how we perceive in the future. My personal belief is that if we handle ourselves correctly in this state, this may be one of the greatest opportunities for Arkansas to shine. We have resources here that can lead us well into the 21st century, and I think what we've got here is a policy statement that reflects where we are in the 21st century. It talks about what is important in this state, and you know, you go up there on line seven,
agriculture, industry, tourism, and recreation, these things are very important. They're vital to everyone in this state. is what arkansas is all about i mean we you know i have the privilege of representing a portion of the largest city in the state and like i always like to say in all of camic village but but there are but arkansas is an agricultural state and it's vital that we take care of
agriculture we take care of industry we take care of tourism tourism is something as those of you in this committee have seen, that's going to be one of the areas of growth that we have that can help us well into the future as well, and we have to preserve that. So I think what this policy statement does, it's an acknowledgment of where we are. It provides an overview of where we should be going, and with that, I'll be happy to
take any questions from the committee. Thank you, Representative. We do have a question from Representative Collins. Motion
at the proper time, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Any other questions? We do have one person signed up to speak about the bill. That's David Carruth. Is he in?
Yes, there he is. He signed up as informational, so I don't know whether this is for or against.
I've changed my position. Yes, if you'd recognize yourself for the record, we are being – someone got to you, didn't they? The
Speaker 214
1:46:54
slaps you heard out in the hallway earlier were discussions about this bill. Yes, sir. You may begin if you recognize yourself. David Kruth. I'm an attorney from Clarendon. Like John Edwards, I've been involved with water issues very intimately for the last 10 years. And after talking with he and Representative Moore, what each of you on this committee and those of you elected to this body need to understand
is there are significant issues with water. If done right, it will really be a major step for Arkansas and will really solve a lot of problems. If done wrong, it will be a very unpleasant thing. So after talking with Mr. Moore, Speaker Moore and Representative Edwards, I believe that what they're trying to do is in the right direction. There's a lot of work to be done. Working on the water plan is key to that.
But I have a confidence level that what they're trying to do needs to be done and is in the right direction. So with that, I'll stop because of your time constraints. I will take any questions you have. I do have reservations about it, but I don't think now is the time to voice those because I think it would derail a laudable effort that's being undertaken by these two gentlemen. Thank
you, sir. Any questions to this witness? If not, thank you, Mr. Krug, for your testimony.
Anybody else want to speak for or against the bill? Reverend Edwards, R. Moore, you want to
Speaker 216
1:48:31
close for your bill? Appreciate the committee's time and I appreciate
Speaker 23
1:48:37
a good vote Thank you, sir Representative Collins, I believe you have a motion Yes, Mr. Chairman, I move do pass on House Bill 1903 We
have a motion do pass All in favor say aye Opposed like sign Congratulations, gentlemen, you have passed your bill Thank
Speaker 51
1:48:52
you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee
Thank you Gentlemen, we've done a yeoman's job We got through three good bills this morning. We will take up House Bill 2002 by Representative Link and House Bill 1913 by the Speaker. We will take those two bills up Friday morning at 9 o'clock. We will
have a meeting upon adjournment this afternoon to take up maybe some Senate bills
since the Senate will not be here Friday and a few other bills that will be very short.
I promise you we will not be here long after adjournments. Please try and be here for an important meeting. Thank you. Meeting adjourned.
Agenda
Documents
No documents posted.
Speakers
Representative Jerry R. Brown Chair
Unverified
Speaker 3
Representative Jeremy Gillam
Unverified
Speaker 15
Representative Fredrick J. Love
Unverified
Speaker 29
Speaker 30
Speaker 21
Speaker 23
Representative Garry L. Smith
Unverified
Speaker 8
Speaker 13
Speaker 41
Speaker 49
Speaker 51
Representative Kelley Linck
Unverified
Speaker 60
Speaker 62
Speaker 64
Speaker 66
Speaker 67
Speaker 69
Speaker 78
Speaker 77
Speaker 83
Representative Lori Benedict
Unverified
Speaker 96
Speaker 57
Speaker 91
Representative John Burris
Unverified
Speaker 102
Speaker 103
Representative Stephen Meeks
Unverified
Speaker 113
Speaker 81
Representative Homer Lenderman
Unverified
Speaker 111
Speaker 131
Speaker 114
Speaker 117
Representative Charlie Collins
Unverified
Speaker 141
Representative Mark Perry
Unverified
Representative Randy Stewart
Unverified
Speaker 150
Mack Hayden
Unverified
Speaker 173
Speaker 174
Speaker 180
Speaker 191
Speaker 84
Speaker 179
Speaker 185
Speaker 144
Scott Walker
Unverified
Speaker 196
Speaker 197
Speaker 199
Speaker 203
Representative Robert S. Moore, Jr.
Unverified
Speaker 207
Speaker 58
Representative John Charles Edwards
Unverified
Speaker 214
Speaker 216