House State Agencies and Govt'l Affairs Committee Part 3
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Bills discussed (1)
| Bill | Title | Sponsor | Status |
|---|---|---|---|
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HB1836
· 2 mentions in chapter, transcript
Matched: “HB1836”
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Pre-2017 bill |
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Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
0:00
That being the case, Representative Cheatham, are you ready to run House Bill 1836? Representative Lee? Are we going to run any other
Speaker 2
0:13
bills on the calendar, or are you just planning on doing this and Jimmy Jettin' out
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
0:26
would be here, but I would imagine like a quail, as soon as this is over, it's going to be a lot of flights.
But I will be here if we have a quorum and somebody wants to run a bill, I'll stay. Thank you. But I don't know if we'll have
a quorum. Representative Cheatham, are you ready for your amendment? Mr. Chairman, just give me just a
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
0:53
second. Let me figure out where I am. Are we passing
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
0:56
out the amendment? We've already had the amendment out. We have a motion
to approve the amendment. We have a motion to approve the amendment. So all in favor say aye.
Any opposed? When you get lined out, Representative Cheatham, you're welcome to start.
Speaker 14
1:12
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Committee. House
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
1:17
Bill 1836, as you're aware of, you have a set-up map in front of you of the redistricting proposal that I have, Mr. Clark and I have, I guess we could say. we're like the other two people before us. We tried to do it in the best manner we could with the information we had.
Of course, the first thing we heard from people of Polk County, Mr. Lee said that they needed to be taken care of, and we took care of them. But really, we looked at one man, one vote. We looked for a deviation of zero percent, which is what I think all three maps have. and I think the figures you've already heard we use the same figures that they did on
the redistricting what we tried to do was look at
of course you all know the 4th district has lost the most now if I knew where it was I could tell you what it was and because of that We tried to, and it's going to continue losing as we looked at things. We tried to look at a couple things, I guess. We tried to look at the fact that to keep similar districts, similar areas of the state together.
One thing, you look at District 1. We tried to keep all the river counties, the Delta counties in that. and is even going back to when Clinton ran for Congressional office years ago. Since he did that, 4 has moved steadily north, and we kind of continued that trend. We tried to keep very similar in District 1 and tried to carry District 4 north.
Of course, District 2 did not change very much, as you can see, and you'll notice District 4 does have a little addition, as I think my friend Yvaldi Lindsey calls the finger there. But what that is is a Senate district. We needed numbers, and we went
into that district to try to get equal amount to make our map actually work out like it did. I'd entertain any questions.
Speaker 4
3:44
Representative Lee. I notice in your map you've split five counties, and I respect that it's really tough coming up with as close the numbers as you possibly can. What was your logic in splitting that many
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
4:00
counties? To try to make it work out. Our numbers work out. That's the thing to be the best. As you notice, in the second, we moved. The second lost Van Buren. It lost part of White. Third lost Franklin Johnson, part of Washington.
and it gained Baxter. We do, we try to talk to people in different counties and honor wishes where we could. Sebastian and Crawford wanted to stay in the third. We try to honor that. Of course, the third, as you know, as far as population-wise, grew the most. Mr. Lee just tried to work with the people in the different counties and try to fit them into the group as we placed them. I made a mistake.
Speaker 4
4:46
You split six counties, not five. And I appreciate this is tough. I mean, obviously, I know I tried to get a map drawn up that I thought would pass also. Really, I mean, what do you think the people in Fayetteville up in Washington County have in common with the people down in Ashley, Union, Bradley? well the fourth
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
5:12
district as you know is the largest one and it covers all kinds of people
from forestry land in the south the farmland over in miller county up in the mountains and you know it's just that whoever's in that office will have to deal with all those people but that's we feel like that we have i know we have some opposition to that but we also have people there They're there for that. MS. People where that are for this? MR. In Washington County. MS. In Ashley
Speaker 4
5:42
and Union County, you have people down there that are for this? MR. I would
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
5:46
think so since I live in Ashley County.
Speaker 29
5:50
MS. Hmm. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. MR.
Representative Ed Garner
Unverified
5:57
Representative Garner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Cheatham, it looks like there's a split of six counties, but there's actually a change of eight counties. Eight counties are totally changed. Is that your count? You mean totally changed? I don't have that for moving a county here or there. Right, moving counties. That's a very good possibility.
Good possibility. Well, we've looked at other proposals that didn't make it, And it seems like that this proposal splits more counties and changes more counties than any other proposal. I mean, there's other questions, but to be consistent, what is the driving force behind a plan that offers more disruption of the voters in the state than anything we've looked at so far?
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
6:51
Mr. Your Honor, I think we tried to talk to people around the state. As a matter of fact, we had witnesses here this morning that are not here now, I don't believe, from four corners of the state that would speak to this map. But, again, the 4th District, traditionally, even back from the 1980s, has moved north. We continued that. People in Franklin and Johnson were comfortable
Representative Ed Garner
Unverified
7:12
with going into 4th. There's some comments that have been made that use the term that this is called the pig trail gerrymander. This doesn't actually follow the pig trail, does it?
Speaker 37
7:21
Well, I haven't called it that. I think I've called it the fable finger. It doesn't actually follow the pig trail, does
Speaker 38
7:31
it? No. Does it follow a railroad? There's probably a railroad in there. Thank you. Representative Hopper. Thank you,
Representative Karen S. Hopper
Unverified
7:43
Mr. Chair. Just so we can, pardon me, get everything on the record, I know when we discussed the two previous maps, we outlined the deviation.
Speaker 43
7:52
So could we do that for this one as well? So if we have
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
7:56
a clear picture. Deviation is 0% in each district. And the numbers,
please. Minus 10 in the first, minus 167 in the second, plus 150 in the third, plus 27 in the fourth. Thank you. And thank you, Mr. Chair. Any other representative
Representative Debra M. Hobbs
Unverified
8:19
Did I understand you to say the people from Fayetteville are in favor of this, Matt?
I said some of them. I didn't actually know all of them. Okay. Okay. Did you receive an email from David Whitaker? Ms. Hopper, you know
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
8:34
how many emails we received. I received some for and
against. Okay. Yes. Yes, I did. Okay. Thank you.
Okay. Could you forward me some of
Representative Debra M. Hobbs
Unverified
8:43
those that are for it from the Fayetteville area? See if I hadn't deleted them. I'd appreciate it. Thank you.
Speaker 28
8:54
Any other questions? Representative Behr. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You may have said
Representative Duncan Baird
Unverified
9:01
it earlier, but what exactly were your goals when you were drawing this map? One man,
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
9:07
one vote. Okay. Trying to keep geographically, of course, with the fourth district, you know, as big as it is, but try to, I guess we started the first district along the
river to keep those counties, these old Delta counties together, and just try to group it that way. So that was your goal, one man, one vote.
Representative Duncan Baird
Unverified
9:24
Have we seen any other maps today that meet that
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
9:28
criteria? Sure. I think all three of them.
I've talked to Mr. Wilson, all three of them, pretty much the same deviation. And as far as
Representative Duncan Baird
Unverified
9:36
the numbers, other than that, pretty close. So we had three good maps today? I think so. So what, I guess at the end of the day, what sets this map apart? I mean, if they all meet the same goal, what would you say is the
defining characteristic of this map that says to us we need to pass this out of the House?
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
9:56
I think the biggest thing is in the 1st District trying to keep those counties, the Delta counties, River counties. I know where you live, and if
you've ever been to Ashford County, you know where I live, but starting with Chico, DeShay, Phillips, Lee, St. Francis, up the river, different world you know i hate to say that but it's a different world and we felt like those people even though mr mr hall does live somewhere in that area over there in one of those counties it's a it's a it's you know similar very similar
Speaker 60
10:28
but again there are some mountainous counties in
there because the numbers you have to have numbers so you've got to move is all the maps had
Representative Duncan Baird
Unverified
10:36
to move some so so when we go home and we tell people that that this map is
the new map that that That will be what we tell people, that it was dictated by the
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
10:47
Mississippi River. Well, that's one thing. I think geographically, I think you say geographically, and because the 4th happened to grow so much, I think you could use that. And since
it's moved north for the last 15 or maybe 20 years, I guess,
it's still moving north. I guess probably another 10 years, all of Washington may be in 4th. Okay.
Speaker 63
11:15
Thank you. thank you mr. chair mr. Cheatham did you look
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
11:23
at Sebastian County I mean I understand they didn't they weren't interested in going to the fourth but we went we really have a gerrymander here we dove way into Washington County
and bypassing some other areas more contiguous to the 4th District.
Did you look at those numbers? We did. Could you not create a number that would come close or even down
to the southeast looking at Lincoln and Drew County? Do you by chance know where the population of those two counties are? Lincoln and Drew? Mm-hmm. I don't have it on
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
12:04
top of my... I think Drew was going to be about, where's Mr. Wilson at?
Do you have a number with you, Richard? I'm guessing. Give me a ballpark. Oh, gosh, 20, around 20, 22 maybe. Not that much.
Speaker 70
12:25
Maybe smaller than that. It's probably smaller. Mr. Wardlaw probably lives closer than I
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
12:31
do to Drew County. I would tell it exactly. Do we not
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
12:36
have any population? We're the committee that's drawing maps, and we don't have population figures?
That seems rather surprising that we wouldn't have any
Speaker 60
12:45
population figures. I don't have it by county, no. Wait a minute. I do. If I have it with me, I do. I don't. Mr. Hall, you happen
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
12:56
to have that other map with the numbers on
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
13:00
it? I do not. I can tell you, Drew, which one would you like to know? And I will try
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
13:06
to. Drew County, for one. Drew County has about 18,000. Well, I mean, do we not have the numbers? We've had some abouts.
I mean, the estimate's okay, but we are the committee charged with redistricting. You're certainly welcome to go find them. Well, I mean, I know I can
find them. I can probably pull out my iPhone and find them, but we're prohibited from using those devices, aren't we? You can certainly step away
from the desk and do it. Well, I mean, we're trying to do something quickly, and we don't have this information at our disposal, and I think that's troubling. I
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
13:36
don't think we asked the other members. I assume the other presenters said if you had asked at that time, they probably would have a vase on. We did bring it up, Mr. Chair.
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
13:44
We did bring it up. He wasn't asked to bring it up. Well, I thought we were going to have more information when we came back. What is the population of Lincoln County about? Ms. Clemmer, I cannot answer that. I guess I'm trying to figure out why we needed to go so far into Washington County. Look, I don't have a dog in this fight. Saline County is just fine. But, you know, I teach my students about redistricting and gerrymandering, and this looks a whole lot like gerrymandering, not
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
14:12
redistricting. If you ever look at some of the maps in other states, you'll see gerrymandering.
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
14:16
I realize we've done pretty well in the past, but I don't know that we're doing so well with this proposed map, with all due respect. I just don't understand why we couldn't have found the population we needed for the fourth district without swooping up to get Fayetteville. And I guess there was a question there. I wondered if those population numbers were available, but if they're not, I'm
Speaker 83
14:45
not. Representative Hutchison. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Representative Donna Hutchinson
Unverified
14:47
Were you going to say something? No, ma'am. You go right ahead. That's fine. I've gotten many calls from my Democrat friends even in the Fayetteville area, and they're concerned that when you do draw districts, you're supposed to take into consideration natural topography, and they're surprised that you overlook Boston Mountain, which sort of divides that corner of the state from the rest of the state. why did you decide to run around Boston Mountain and reach into the other side of Boston Mountain
and hook it with the southern part of Boston Mountain?
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
15:26
Yes, because we had numbers from that Senate district, and that's basically what you see in Washington County. You need to realize, go back to what Ms. Flemmer asked, third district has got to shrink. You can't keep it like it is. It's got to go somewhere, so where do you take it? That basically, you know, what do you take out of it? Well, I thought the
Representative Donna Hutchinson
Unverified
15:45
other two maps handled that very well. That's one opinion. I have another question. Okay.
Fayetteville to Bella Vista is the metroplex. It's really one large cosmopolitan area. People reside in one city, work in another city, and we go back and forth, and they're concerned that you have pretty much now divided that metroplex. that we've all enjoyed together, and it's been very successful, the partnerships up and down there. We're not going to put any fences
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
16:18
up, Ms. Hutchinson. And I think people from that area have told me that they're excited about having two congressmen,
which is what they're going to get. Basically, they're going to have one from the fourth that's going to pay a lot of attention to those 50,000 people in that area, and then they're going to have one
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
16:41
from the third that's going to pay attention to them. Representative Bernard. I'm doing this from memory, but I think the population of Drew County is 18,723 people.
Well, you know what? I'll have to recycle it because, you know, I didn't
Speaker 81
17:03
get down to L since Drew D. So I'll have to think about that. Let me search my memory
Representative Ed Garner
Unverified
17:12
banks. Lieutenant Garner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Representative
Cheatham, you talked about the 3rd District needed to shrink, but on your map you take in Baxter County. There's a
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
17:25
reason for it. It's setting about six people down from you.
Representative Ed Garner
Unverified
17:28
But the – and I'm going to follow along Representative Clemmer's line of question a little bit, and I kind of don't – I mean, I'm plastic. I don't have a dog in the hunt other than the overall appearance of this. I grew up in Deshaies County, and you're right. There is certainly a river culture and farmland, and that's all very similar. But Lincoln and Drew County are very different than Deshaies and Chico County,
and so you put them into the first, and it seems to me that if you left Drew and Lincoln in the fourth and didn't move Baxter, you wouldn't have to do this strange gerrymandering
fable finger or whatever, railroad thing, whatever you've
got going into Washington County. And
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
18:21
we looked about 40 maps, Mr. Garner. Forty? Yes. Matter of fact, Mr.
Wilson says there's about four on this table that have been over there looking at different maps.
Representative Ed Garner
Unverified
18:33
But you would not agree that leaving Drew and Lincoln in
the fourth and leaving Baxter County alone in the, where is it now, the 1st, wouldn't that keep it to where you didn't have to go
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
18:48
into Washington? We ran those numbers, and that would not suffice. You have to meet the numbers, Mr. Garner. Oh,
Representative Ed Garner
Unverified
18:59
yeah, I understand. So how many people are you picking up by the fable finger?
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
19:07
A little over. I'm guessing a little over. I'm going to have to go back to Mr. Hall to make sure, but I'm
Speaker 104
19:13
in excess of $50,000. So you're saying Baxter, Lincoln, and
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
19:16
Drew don't equal that? I can't only have a figure from it, but I
Speaker 105
19:19
don't think so. I think it's going to get
Speaker 4
19:32
real close. I don't think so. Thank you. Rep. Lee? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One of the things that it seems to be almost a theme this session is asking what the Attorney General thinks.
And I've heard people comment on this map around the Capitol that the Attorney General has been warning of a potential lawsuit. Did you by any chance visit with him on this, and did he weigh in? Ms. Lee, I'll defer that to Mr. Hall since this is
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
19:55
his map, and I'm running it for him since he's chairing this committee. But I have talked to Mr.
McDaniels myself, and he did not say anything about it. He did not. He may have talked to
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
20:08
Mr. Hall. Attorney General made a statement that he will defend any map that comes out of this body.
Thank you. You're welcome. Have no one else to talk about
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
20:22
it? Representative Clemmer. I'm sorry. I thought maybe you had seen my hand earlier. Thank you, Mr.
Chairman. Mr. Cheatham? Yes, ma'am. Normally, when the courts or political observers or laypersons, well, maybe not laypersons, but people
who look at maps and they look to see if there's been a gerrymandering that
has happened, they look for contiguous borders. Was that not at all a consideration in this
process? Ms. Clemory, it was, and we tried to honor people as
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
20:56
we talked to them. Sebastian and Crawford County did not want to be in the fourth, so we did not put them in the fourth. Of course, you can't make everyone
happy, as you know, or you can talk to Ms. Lee, and she tried to make everyone happy, and
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
21:11
she did not. I understand that. I just feel like as a body, I mean, we've been in charge of redistricting,
and we can do a more contiguous border than this map. It may not be the maps we've already rejected, but I would ask if you looked at contiguity, I guess, would be the word, when creating this. I don't know that that's a word. I really think we did, but, you know, you could
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
21:44
make the fourth cover over half the state if you wanted to. You could make that, but I don't think that's what it is.
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
21:52
Well, we asked this question on earlier maps. What about the portion of Lincoln County that's split? What does that represent? Lincoln County
that's split. It appears that Lincoln County is
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
22:08
split, is it not? Actually, there's a little, you're correct, the
upper portion of that. It's a very, very small population. The prison has been set in that area. Oh, that represents? Grady. Okay. Grady, that area.
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
22:22
Okay. All right. What about the other splits? Where were they? And what was the rationale? Crawford County has a little piece tucked out of
it. Is that just so we can have a hole to get to Fayetteville?
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
22:40
I wouldn't call it that. You'll see a little hole in Garland County. Yes. For years, Hot Springs Village had been split down the middle, and we decided it was time to make that
hole, and we did that. And you have a fellow Republican who's excited about it.
I could concur about that. I don't know his name, but he's sitting
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
23:01
here. I would think Mr. Westerman, maybe. No, Mr. Sanders. Oh, that's right. He represents part of that. No, I think that's probably a good decision, but that's why I'm asking about some of these other little pieces Well, we've got a piece. How many counties do we have split? We have six. Five. Five, I believe. Crawford, Lincoln, Garland. White. Where were the other splits? White is split.
White is split. And what is that dividing line? Well, it
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
23:28
kind of, Searcy is in the second, and Bonob County is in the first. That's kind of where that line, population-wise. Of course, Searcy is the majority of that population. But the borders
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
23:38
there, what do they represent? Is that a natural boundary? We asked that question earlier. Like those township
boundaries. Okay. Census, just a census map section. That's correct. I think that was true on the other two as well. Correct. Okay.
Representative Larry Cowling
Unverified
23:55
Thank you. President Callie. Thank you. It's, you know, people have had a long time to work on this thing, and all of a sudden we come up at the very last deal. But, I mean, this is – we've known we're fixing to do this the whole session and all, so – but time is running out, so, I mean, you know, it's – we've got to make a decision. I mean, that's just part of the process. Well, I can't help that, but it's – some you're going to like, some you're not going to like.
You know, everyone's got some that they took out. Just like you're saying, you was proud of the one out of Garland County. you like that. Maybe one another will light something up this way. And this is going to be an extremely hard thing to do. Please everybody. And I appreciate everyone that's done this. I think I liked a little bit of every one of them. So it's hard to put them all together and one make one. But I appreciate it. I think everyone's did a good job doing this. I've got a motion at the proper time.
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
25:05
Representative Harper and Representative Cowling back. my turn
Speaker 43
25:11
yes ma'am well I have just one question and that is throughout this process we've talked about the comment in what has been made numerous times somebody's going to be unhappy and nobody really wants to to give up where they are and I can understand that and I can certainly appreciate it because I
I live in a county that went through this 10 years ago, and until 10 years ago, it had been a long time since Baxter County had been anywhere but the 3rd District. And while the comments have been made about people are unhappy and this county or this area has asked for either to stay or to move or whatever it might be, my question is this. If, ultimately, what we adopt in here we agree to and pass out is challenged, do the courts
look at who's happy? Is that on their list of questions or criteria or whatever the word might be? Do they look at who's happy and who's not in making the decision? Not in my opinion, they don't. Thank you.
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
26:32
Representative Cowling, for motion. We have a motion to pass. Does anyone in the audience would like to speak against
this bill? Do pass this amendment. Is that right, Representative Cowling? We have anybody in the audience would like to speak?
Have you signed up? We have a secretary. We
Speaker 132
26:50
have a question. Harris? Mr. Harris? Representative
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
26:52
Bernard, do you have a question? I have
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
26:58
a motion to limit the debate, five minutes each side. Proper
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
27:03
motion not available. All in favor say aye. Aye. Are you opposed? No. Boy, I heard aye. Thank you. Roll call.
Speaker 136
27:14
Roll call it. Representative Cheatham, Representative
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
27:33
Cheatham. We have a motion to limit debate. We're roll calling it, to limit debate by Representative Penard. We're roll calling it.
Speaker 139
27:44
Five minutes on each side. Yes or no? Representative Gardner Representative Roebuck Representative Hutchinson Representative Kaling Representative Penards Representative Baird Representative Hobbs Representative Lee Representative Wilkins Representative Tyler
Speaker 136
28:16
Representative Hopper Representative Clemmer? Representative Nichols? No. Representative McLean? Yes. Representative Rogers? No. Representative Steele? No. Representative Vines? No. Representative Slinkard? No. Representative Slinkard? No. Representative Paul? Yes.
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
28:44
Your motion failed. We will continue on.
Representative Justin T. Harris
Unverified
28:48
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Committee, for listening, but I'd like to be a loud voice and a big voice, and I've spoken to some of you guys on the Committee. This affects my district, District 87. We do not, and I'm repeating it, do not want to be put in the Fourth District. They've spoken loud and clear, and I've asked some of you guys to listen, and I hope that you take it into consideration what the people of my district 87 want they do not want to be put in
the fourth district they want to be left in the third district to be part of the region of northwest arkansas so i'd appreciate that this just is a bad bill it we thought it was a joke no one took it seriously but now it's not so much a joke and we are not laughing and we do not think it's funny So I want you to listen. I don't usually get this upset at things, but I want you to listen to the people of Northwest Arkansas and Fayetteville. We do not want to be put in the 4th District. Thank you.
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
29:56
Representative Collins. Are you against? You're against, okay. Thank you very much,
Representative Charlie Collins
Unverified
30:05
Mr. Chair and members of the committee. I live in Fayetteville, And when the idea was first surfaced, the number of e-mails that came out so overwhelmingly against this idea was dizzying. I thought it was fluoride there for a couple days. But the thought I would share with you, because we're all grownups here and we all know how politics works,
and we all get a hand and we play our hand, and it's obvious that's what's going on here. And so the question is, is this over playing the hand? And what do I mean by that? What I mean by that is, is this such a gerrymander that what we're actually going to wind up doing is raising doubts in the people's minds about how serious we are about doing their business compared to how serious we are about our partisan focus. So I would just suggest to all of us that we think hard about the rules and the approaches
and the ideals behind redistricting and the history and the traditions that we've moved forward with and ask ourselves before we go over the line in terms of overplaying our hand on gerrymandering, and frankly, ladies and gentlemen, I just think this one does it. Thank you very much. I'm happy to take questions if there are any. Thank
Speaker 149
31:23
you for your comment. Next on, anyone far in the House, I think they've left, they had to go home. Steve
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
31:30
Clark, state your name and who you're with, sir.
Steve Clark
Unverified
31:38
Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, my name is Steve Clark. I'm the President and Chief
Speaker 151
31:46
Executive Officer of the Fayetteville Chamber of Commerce. We are here to state that as to the legal principles of compactness and continuous nature and community of interest, we do not believe this is the bill that represents best the City of Fayetteville and Washington County. I can tell you that as the President of the Chamber of Commerce, when the notion of this idea came up, I distributed a little over 1,900 emails to over 1,000 businesses that
a member of the Fayetteville Chamber of Commerce affecting 20,000 employees and saying that this was an idea that was going to be discussed. That was two weeks ago. I have yet to receive one person's comments, emails, or phone call supporting a proposal that would have, as it's been referred to here today, the Fayetteville finger. I can tell you no elected official in Washington County or in the City of Fayetteville has come
out in favor of this proposal. And our newspaper has been in opposition to this proposal. And it deals with the legal issue of what is the best way to do redistricting. And we believe that as to, again, compactness and the contiguous nature and the community of interest, this bill does not represent that. And for those reasons, and for the reasons that the Arkansans that are affected here believe this is not in their best interest or in the state's best interest, we would ask you not to adopt this bill.
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
33:16
Question, Mr. Clark. Are you ready for questions? I understand this map takes in what is the old federal area and the University of Arkansas. Would you concur that the University of Arkansas was not funded by just Northwest Arkansas but by the taxpayers of the state of Arkansas? Yes, sir. I would absolutely. Would you suggest that if the state of Arkansas didn't fund the University of Arkansas system,
that Fayetteville would be kind of a lot less populated? Well, I guess or no, sir? Yes, I suspect that. Okay. I just want to make that little point there, Mr. Clark. Like, you know, I've heard several people comment that this area is unique, and it is unique. And we all support the University of Arkansas as best we can in that area. And I think the federal citizens really enjoy every fall when all people from southwest Arkansas run up to the federal
and buy hotel rooms and eat out and go to the football games. Do you not agree that that
Speaker 153
34:34
is an exciting time and probable for the
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
34:37
citizens of Fayetteville? It is exciting to us that
the people of Arkansas want to come to Fayetteville, yes. Also, would it be proper to say, being a political animal as you have been in your history, that interest of having two congressional representatives so close in proximity to a growing economic area
that depends heavily on federal funds and federal grants and the possibility of having two congressional representatives in an area that might not promote the Northwest Arkansas economic development more so than a single representative who's sitting out there by themselves. If you believe that
Steve Clark
Unverified
35:26
70,000 people can affect 725,000 people and therefore elect somebody from that
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
35:35
I'm asking if you've been there and I've been here and I have a diverse district that I represent, is it not reasonable to assume that, like I do, I take every area of my district seriously, and when there's events and their issues are there, that I try to participate. Are you saying that a person that is not from northwest Arkansas would not be interested in helping that part of the state
that he represented, or she? No, sir, Mr. Chairman, I did not say that. But you implied it.
Speaker 151
36:15
No, sir, I said that if one wanted to be a candidate in that congressional district and they originated in their life and lived in Fayetteville, they would have to prove to 90% of the district that they could be just as effective in representing them and their interests as they would be the things they knew best, which is Fayetteville. That is similar to the situation you're in. You have to prove across your district that you can address and represent the issues of everybody in your House district.
We understand that, but we don't believe that this necessarily means we will have two congressmen. And we don't believe that it necessarily means that one of those congressmen for whom we don't vote will necessarily be as interested in our issues as the congressmen for whom we do vote. And we find difficulty in the community of interest issue when Springdale, our neighbor, we are the third largest city, Springdale is the fourth largest city, Rogers is the eighth largest city, Bentonville is the tenth largest city, where our neighbors will be
in a different district when we have worked very earnestly to create a community of interest and a region and to work as a region. And for all those reasons, we don't see this as being the best both political and legal decision for drawing these boundaries. We know this is your discretion and your judgment, and we recognize that and respect that, Mr. Chairman and members of this
Representative Debra M. Hobbs
Unverified
37:40
committee. Representative Hobbs. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Clark, in your discussions with the community leaders from your area, has the legality of
this top map come up into your discussion? Yes, it has. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Representative Clemmer.
Speaker 160
38:03
Sorry, I keep having trouble with my button.
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
38:10
All right. Sorry, I had some conversations in my left ear.
Speaker 151
38:18
Mr. Clark, you were Attorney General? Yes. Do you think this will pass court muster? I think that's a decision for the Attorney General, not for me. I'm no longer Attorney General and I haven't been there a long time, more than 20 years. And so I defer to the person whom I respect is in that job. Well,
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
38:38
that was probably a good answer, but it wasn't the one I was looking for. Thank you. You're welcome. Are you through, Representative McLean?
Speaker 165
38:51
Mr. Clark, appreciate you being here today. Thank you, sir. And I'm interested in the specifics. What are some
Representative James McLean
Unverified
38:57
very specific reasons that maybe haven't been described here today why folks in Fayetteville are so adamantly opposed? Is it a tradition? Is it just based on tradition, a certain culture that you kind of delineated? I just kind of need to know from my own understanding, and I think your point of view is very illuminating because you are someone who has a lot of experience in state government,
and I think your opinion has a great weight. But I need to know specifically what are some reasons that folks are apparently very adamantly against this map. Well, if Fayetteville and Washington County had
Steve Clark
Unverified
39:34
been a border county, as some of these are, Johnson, Franklin, some of the others, then I think the opinion both
Speaker 151
39:41
of the residents of the City of Fayetteville and the residents of Washington County would have been it would be appropriate for us to expect some change.
being insulated by at least one county, in some instances two counties, from changes that were likely to occur. This reach up into just Fayetteville, not the rest of Washington County, but just Fayetteville. We are the third largest county in Arkansas, and so I understand population-based, but just this reach does affect us as a community of interest. And our community of interest, we defined, is not only the people that we do business with, and we do do a lot of business together.
The people that we do public service with, and we have Northwest Arkansas Regional Chambers. We have a group of mayors that read regularly. We have just to talk about our region and the things we can do collectively. For instances in law enforcement, we don't all have bomb squads. There's one bomb squad in one city, and they take care of us for those kinds of issues, so that sort of cooperative nature. We find that in our schools. We have many of the same interests because we have a rapidly growing Hispanic Latino population, 14.4 percent across Arkansas.
Of the five counties in Arkansas with the largest Hispanic population, three of those are Benton, Washington, and Carroll County, so it's right there. So we have these growth issues in our schools that keep us as a common interest. We see this is also a part of our common interest in the things we are trying to do as a region to be identified as a destination in a central part of the country. And we do that with a meeting I'll be attending here in about a month with Kansas, Missouri, and Oklahoma because we are all in the corners of our states.
And we see that in the community interest of the folks of our healthcare as a cooperative agreement we're working out with our various hospitals. So we see that as very viable to us and very important. We are concerned from the Fayetteville perspective that being shifted into the 4th District could put us in a position where we could appear to be, or in fact become, at odds with our neighbors who are divided by an imaginary line. And part of that is our reason to want to be team players.
My mayor said to me over the phone last night, you know, he said, I've been chewed out and I've been told I was wrong, but I didn't usually have to drive all day long to hear that. And he said, you know, that's one of the things. Some of that is just, and I too, like the chairman, I grew up in the Delta. I grew up in Mississippi County. I'm very partisan. I am a Democrat. Please understand that. I ran statewide five times as a Democrat. My family held office in this General Assembly for 50 consecutive years.
One of my family was a constitutional officer for 20 years. Because that's where I lean, but this is not about partisanship for Fayetteville. It is about our community of interest for our businesses, our schools, our community as it deals with the growth factors that we have to face, transportation being one of those, different for us than it would be in some of the parts of the 4th Congressional District. And so when you look at the legal test, the compactness of the district, you look at the contiguous nature of the counties and what you're trying to do, you recognize that if
you can't avoid dividing political subdivisions, you do, then when you apply that standard, this doesn't seem to comport very well. And then when
Speaker 152
43:17
you put our community of interest there together with it, we look at it
Representative James McLean
Unverified
43:23
as going there are better plans. MR. Okay. That's a compelling argument. MS. Thank you. this map it looks to me immediately day one Fayetteville is going to be pretty influential to borrow a phrase of the big dog on the porch is there do you feel
like that there may be some concern from folks and in this part of Washington County that they're going to be ignored because I'm just looking at this map and all of a sudden now there it looks like there's going to be a movement of
Speaker 151
43:59
political power towards your area well I will tell you I would be less than forthright if I didn't share with you the fact that there are folks who since this bill has come to the forefront have identified that if indeed the chairman
is right someone from Fayetteville were elected to the Congress from Fayetteville and represent the fourth district that there would be 42 of the 75 counties in Arkansas that would have a congressman living within 20 miles of each other and a United States Senator living within 20 miles of each other, and that could be very effective for Northwest Arkansas. Clearly the population shifts in our state have made these very difficult issues for you to address, very difficult issues.
We know that in a growth area we have a lot of growth problems, but frankly if you put Sebastian and Crawford County in our part of the region, that's about 1 in 4 are Kansas. And so, yes, in one sense, from our standpoint, it's the loss of that community of interest and the jeopardy that might occur, putting us at odds with that same community interest that we worked diligently to build. The regional chambers of commerce have been around 20-plus years. And there used to be a time that on Friday nights we battled and we let that carry over
Saturday, Sunday, and the rest of the next week. We don't
Speaker 165
45:19
do that much now. I appreciate that, General. Thank
Representative Larry Cowling
Unverified
45:28
you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Representative Cowling. Motion for immediate consideration. We're running and flashing this over and over, and I appreciate these people coming, but I'm asking
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
45:38
for immediate consideration, please. We have a motion for immediate consideration, non-debatable. We might as well roll call it.
Speaker 139
45:48
roll call Ricky representative Cheatham representative Gardner representative Robeck
Speaker 136
46:08
representative Hutchinson representative Cowling representative Penards representative Baird representative Hobbs representative Lee representative Wilkins representative Tyler represent Hopper represent
Clemmer represent Nichols represent McLean represent Rogers represent Steele, Representative Vines, Representative Slinkard, Representative Slinkard, Representative Paul.
Speaker 138
47:02
Yes. Motion to immediate consideration is passed.
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
47:06
have a motion to
approve House Bill 1836. All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed. No.
Speaker 136
47:24
Representative Cheatham. Representative Cheatham. Representative Gardner
Speaker 139
47:30
represent Roebuck representative Hutchinson
representative Kaling representative Penards
Speaker 136
47:43
represent Baird representative Hobbs representative Lee represent Wilkins represent Tyler represent Hopper Rep. Clemmer? Rep. Nichols? Rep. McLean? Rep. Rogers? Rep. Steele? Rep. Vines? Rep. Vines?
Speaker 139
48:15
Rep. Slinkard? Rep. Slinkard? Rep. Hall? House Bill
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
48:32
1836 has a due pass as amended out of this committee. We are adjourned until Friday morning. Thank you all for coming.
Agenda
Documents
No documents posted.
Speakers
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
Speaker 2
Speaker 5
Speaker 6
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
Speaker 14
Speaker 4
Speaker 29
Representative Ed Garner
Unverified
Speaker 37
Speaker 38
Representative Karen S. Hopper
Unverified
Speaker 43
Representative Debra M. Hobbs
Unverified
Speaker 28
Representative Duncan Baird
Unverified
Speaker 60
Speaker 63
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
Speaker 70
Speaker 83
Representative Donna Hutchinson
Unverified
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
Speaker 81
Speaker 104
Speaker 105
Representative Larry Cowling
Unverified
Speaker 132
Speaker 136
Speaker 139
Representative Justin T. Harris
Unverified
Representative Charlie Collins
Unverified
Speaker 149
Steve Clark
Unverified
Speaker 151
Speaker 153
Speaker 152
Speaker 160
Speaker 165
Representative James McLean
Unverified
Speaker 138
Speaker 135