House Education Committee
Video
Transcript
Bills discussed (1)
| Bill | Title | Sponsor | Status |
|---|---|---|---|
|
SB774
· 2 mentions in chapter, transcript
Matched: “SB774”
|
Pre-2017 bill |
Machine transcript
May contain errors. Verify important quotations against the official video.
About transcript accuracy
- Source
- Whisper
- Model
- ggml-large-v3-turbo.bin RTX5060
- Processing date
- October 5, 2026
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
0:00
Mr. Baker, you may present your bill. Committee, we used to have one bill
Speaker 1
0:07
today, House Senate Bill 774. Chairman Cheatham, thank you for having one more meeting on this last day. We've got some folks that have driven in from far away who are interested in this bill, and so I told them that we would take a look at it one more time and visit with the committee. Again, I'll be very brief. Currently under Arkansas law, any home-educated student can participate and attend any class in public school, traditional public school.
That school is paid pro rata for that student's attendance, and that includes physical education, band, choir, any class. Under Arkansas law right now today, they can do that and they are doing that throughout the state. But the AAA prevents that student from then competing in the chess club competition or the band competition.
And all this law does is to say, no, they can go ahead, meet the requirements that the public school kid has, and so they can go to the band competition and compete. You're not changing anything else. Right now they can take band. They're doing it right now. So unlike other issues that are kind of gray and you kind of wonder, it is very hard for me to figure where a superintendent would oppose letting that 7th grade drummer in band who's been in his band class all year,
and his district's getting money from the state all year, But opposing this bill and saying, no, that kid can't compete in that little region band contest. Now, are we talking about the interest of a kid? Or what are we talking about here? I mean, the beauty of this issue is it's pretty clear when one votes one way or the other on this. Because you're not, that superintendent's, or that principal's not impacted one bit.
The AAA came to us and wanted to work through this because at the end of the day, they said, you know, I guess we're just going to have to
Speaker 4
2:27
put the kids' interests first. Just let them compete in the band contest. They're going to be in your class, school district. They are right now. And you're getting the money for it right now. So we made them take a
Speaker 1
2:38
bunch of tests. Hey, a bunch of homeschoolers don't like this. Because to do this, you're going to have to take all these tests, jump through all these hoops. But I told them, I said, look, if you're going to go in there and participate in that contest, you're going to need to jump through the hoops.
So I'd just like folks to try to look past the control, look past the educational bias against homeschooling, and just say at the end of the day, let's let little Johnny go ahead and compete in the band contest since he's been in class all year. Don't rip him out of that. And that's all that this Tim Tebow bill does. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd be glad to answer any questions. Committee, any questions?
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
3:22
Ms. Clemmer, you have a question? Motion at the proper time. Okay. Any other questions, committee? Seeing none, we'll go to the audience. One will speak against this bill. Mr. Abernathy. You're recognized.
Speaker 16
3:56
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Richard Abernathy, Executive Director of the Administrators Association. And just full disclosure, Senator Baker has been very good to work with us on this bill. Jerry Cox, we've spent numerous hours, amendments back and forth, until you have the bill in front of you that you see today. I think the bill is probably as well-written as it possibly can be. So it really comes down to a policy issue for the legislature to consider.
My group, of course, represent administrators all around the state of Arkansas. The first night they received the bill, of course, they'd been talking about it. They looked at the bill, and they voted to support the bill. The next week, we turned around, and I think they had received some communications from administrators in other areas of the state. They came back and came back and voted to oppose the bill. And when I'm questioning why the opposition to the bill versus supporting it the previous week, let me tell you some of their concerns. The biggest concern is the homeschool in particular
and the way that really we have perceived a legalized method of dropping out of school. And when I say that, most homeschoolers do a very good job. And I think the homeschoolers that you see and hear are evident of that particular program. We have parents out there who really want their child in a homeschooled environment. They do a good job. They have curriculum set up for them. They provide activities for them and even field trips, et cetera. So let's move those particular parents and students aside because they do a very good job.
The ones that concern administrators are when a particular parent gets upset at school or the kid is missing so many days that they're not going to get credit, then they come in during the middle of the semester and they want to drop out of school. But they can't drop out, but they can file homeschool papers. Now, administratively, you can hold them for 14 days in school. That's by law. And after that, there's really no more control. You can turn them over to the prosecuting attorney, and a lot of prosecuting attorneys will not pursue that particular student attendance deal.
So we have, in essence, created by law, by statute, a legalized method for a parent to pull their kid out of school. Some of the comments you hear in that is that, well, it's my child, and I can do anything I want to with them. Well, I guess that depends on how far you want to let a parent abuse a child. At some point, the state needs to take ownership of these children who we are allowing to drop out of school. So when my group looked at it, we're saying, well, okay, we've set up a law, this Tebow law,
that will, in essence, allow homeschoolers to participate in some extracurricular activities, which is probably good, but by the same token, we're not tightening up accountability on the other end. You know, even if we just reestablish the dates of homeschool, where you have to fill out a date before the semester starts, that you have to, by August 15th or whatever, and December 15th, that I'm going to homeschool my child the next semester, you know, so we can meet in the middle. They feel like that this is really not met in the middle as much as pushed it over one side to allow homeschoolers to participate in what they want to.
At the same time, these students over here that we're missing, we're not being able to hold them accountable. And I think if you've been around school business very long at all, you know that that situation occurs. And I think that we need
Speaker 17
7:28
to tighten up that end of it. So the position of association that we are opposed to this particular
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
7:36
bill. I think Ms. English first, I believe. Thank
Representative Jane English
Unverified
7:42
you, Mr. Chairman. Can you tell me what the percentage is of these children who just drop out and really aren't homeschooled, of all the kids who drop out of school?
I mean, do we have some statistics on we've got 500 kids who are being homeschooled and 25 of them are from families who really aren't doing homeschooling? Do we have any of those kinds of statistics? We don't have those particular kind
Speaker 16
8:07
of statistics. I will tell you that there's a group that's not tested that's supposed to be tested. We looked at some of that data a year ago, and we're looking at the Tebow law and also trying to tighten up accountability. And there are a group of students who's not even tested. And what happens to those kids, what follow-up happens to those kids?
Representative Jane English
Unverified
8:28
So I guess one of my questions would be is then, Are we punishing all of the kids who are being homeschooled for
Speaker 22
8:34
the maybe 25 families who are not doing the right thing? That's a really good
Speaker 16
8:41
question. You know, and I hope the last thing any of us want to do is have a blanket spanking. But at the same time, if we know that there's a problem out there and we have allowed students and parents to drop their kids out of school, and all you have to do is just a few minor adjustments of the law to hold them more accountable,
I think this would be a great time to do that.
Representative Jane English
Unverified
9:03
So you believe that not passing this would help solve that other problem? I think it might, if this is really important for our homeschool parents to participate, I think that they
Speaker 16
9:14
might want to come to the table and see what we can do on the other end to try to come to some grounds in the middle. Yes, I do. Thank you. Ms. Klemmer, I believe you had a question. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
9:34
Am I misunderstanding the bill's intent? My understanding was that they can currently come to school for a subject like band or physics. But if they're currently there, I don't understand the opposition because they're already there. We don't have a bill. I mean, this is the last day. We don't have any bills to change that and make them stop attending public schools.
So if they're already there, it seems like it shouldn't be any skin off the administrator's back if they get to participate in the competition. Yes,
Speaker 16
10:21
have several homeschooling students that do choose to come and take physics or science or ban, you know, whatever. This bill is not going to change that. So that is true. They're already going to be there. But I'm going to go back to we're still not protecting the 25 percent or 40 percent,
Speaker 21
10:39
whatever the percentage of kids out here that there is that's not doing homeschooling. They're not doing their kids justice.
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
10:45
I understand what you're saying. I also, though, thought that testing, they had to be on par with their testing. I don't know.
That question may be to the bill's sponsor. They do have to have – tell us again. I think you said that yesterday. As we
Speaker 32
10:59
negotiated through to – and I appreciate Mr. Abernathy's comments, but they have nothing to do with the bill.
Speaker 1
11:05
I mean, absolutely nothing to do with the bill. I mean, I understand the bias against home education.
It's a policy issue we discuss all the time. And with all due respect, would have gladly entered into that discussion, even relating to this bill, if I had been made aware of that any time before, you know, ten minutes ago. But the fact of the matter is, this has nothing to do with this bill. These kids are doing exactly what the administrators want. They're in the classroom. They're doing their work. In most cases, they are excelling, but the little seventh-grade band kid can't go to a little band competition. so i always give folks the benefit of the doubt that they really do care about the kids at the
end of the day but to vote against this that's just the opposite of what you're saying in this particular bill now do you but but we we made as we negotiated through yes to come to go to that competition you've got to take you got to be on grade level in math science social studies in English and every semester that's where we negotiated out we didn't want every semester we thought every year because that's that's something that home educators typically don't take those standardized tests
every semester we said okay we'll do that to just be able to go to the band competition and Jimmy Jeffers always fusses at me when I talk about the band competition choir competition as well I'm
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
12:30
going to bring that up Mr. Gilmore you've got to make sure Ms. Hutcherson you have
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
12:37
cut you off so the testing by semester is required they have to be that's in the bill and they are currently already in school okay the bill
Speaker 1
12:47
actually does exactly exactly what the administrators
are asking for more accountability more involvement in the public in public school so if you just take the bill on its face I mean they should be for it but I understand the bias
Representative Donna Hutchinson
Unverified
13:06
thank you Mr. Chair Ms. Hutcherson thank you Mr. Abernathy, you just mentioned in your opening statement, I think the real problem is your prosecuting attorneys and your truancy officers aren't doing their job. And you're just trying to find a way to overcome that problem.
And I really believe the students who are going to band every day and showing up for these practices, they aren't in the bunch that have dropped out illegally. And that's the group you want are those who have dropped out illegally. And I can't imagine someone dropping out illegally but showing up for ban practice. Do you really think the problem with truancy are these students who are coming to the public schools for these various services,
that this will really narrow it down to the not really viable homeschoolers. They're just truant. They aren't obeying the law to begin with. They aren't being tested. Do you think you're really going to get to them by defeating this law? I don't see the link. It seems like you're trying to hurt students who are doing what the law says in order to put pressure on students who don't care about the law and their parents apparently don't care about the law.
I don't see the connection at all. Is that a question? It's a pretty pointy question, I think. Could you explain the connection? How do you think punishing students who go to band practice every day, who are showing up, truancy officers know where they are, they're easily found? I really don't think those are the students that have totally dropped out of the system
Speaker 24
14:57
illegally. I think the connection is we have homeschool laws on the books now,
and this is obviously expanding the homeschool law. So if we're going to expand the homeschool law,
Speaker 16
15:07
then why don't we bring in some accountability for those students who are, you mentioned illegally dropping out. They're
Representative Donna Hutchinson
Unverified
15:13
actually legally dropping out. Well, they haven't taken their test. They haven't done what is required of
Speaker 16
15:18
homeschoolers to continue to homeschool. That's certainly one issue that
Representative Donna Hutchinson
Unverified
15:22
should be addressed, whether that's with the prosecuting attorneys. Yeah, we're back to the prosecuting attorney again. It's his responsibility, not other homeschool parents who are obeying the job.
It's not their job. It's the prosecuting attorney's job to make sure those schools are treated like any other truant student in the school system. It doesn't matter if they say they're homeschooling or they're just dropping out because they don't want to go to
Speaker 24
15:46
school. They're truant. And I'm sure we have prosecuting attorneys around the state that do a
Speaker 16
15:52
very good job. And at the same time, we have some that's probably not, just like any other profession. But I know that we have homeschoolers out there who have legally dropped out of school,
and those children are not receiving an education. And so if you expand the opportunities for homeschoolers on one end, but you're not bringing up the bottom, then that's an issue. And I still think their accountability should be somewhere in meat in the middle. Committee, we've got to move along real quick. There's
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
16:20
supposed to be another meeting at 9.30. I don't know whether Agri is going to their schedule a meeting. I haven't seen anybody come in, so maybe they're not. But we have two other questions, and Mr. Summers
and Ms. Hobbs, and let's get them on the board.
Representative Tim Summers
Unverified
16:34
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Dr. Abernathy, I'm of the opinion that homeschooling in Benton County is very successful. That is an opinion. I don't have any data to back that up. Is there any data available five and ten years down the road that compares failures in homeschooling to failures in public school? I do not have that data, no. Thank you. Ms.
Speaker 43
16:57
Hobbs. Mine's been addressed. Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker 50
17:05
Mr. Baird, yes. Is it correct that in this bill the principal can disapprove any written request to participate? Yes, sir. And also, if a person drops out of school, or not drops out, but, you know, leaves the public schools to become a homeschooler, they'd be barred for one year from participating in interscholastic activities? We have written the law to where
Speaker 24
17:28
it very well mirrors what our public school kids
Speaker 16
17:31
have to do. And so, yes, they have to set out a year as homeschoolers would also have to set out a year.
Speaker 50
17:38
Okay. So you couldn't just leave the school in protest and then come back and participate in the same activities? MR. No. Okay. Thank
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
17:47
you. Any other questions, Committee? Seeing none. Thank you, Mr. Abernathy. Anyone want to speak for this bill, against this bill? Seeing none, back to the Committee. What is your pleasure? Ms. Klemmer, you have a motion? Motion do pass. I have a motion do pass, Committee, and we're going to roll call this to expedite it. So Mr. Hudson, go ahead and roll call it.
Speaker 58
18:10
Representative Bradford. Representative Bradford. Representative Webb. Representative Webb. Representative Pierce. Representative Pierce. Representative Hutchinson. Representative Stewart. Representative Stewart. Representative Brown. Representative Brown. Representative Baird. Representative Summers.
Representative Summers? Yes. Representative Hobbs? Yes. Representative Carnine? Yes. Representative Dale? No. Representative Hopper? Yes. Representative Klemmer? Yes. Representative McLean? Yes. Representative Dickinson? Yes. Representative Dickinson? Representative English, Representative Steele, Representative Steele, Representative Wren, Representative Wren, Representative Robott, Representative Robott.
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
19:30
Mr. Becker, the bill has failed. You've got 10 votes far. It takes 11 to pass.
Speaker 63
19:35
You've got 10 votes. We're fine for you, committee. Appreciate that. Thank you,
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
19:41
Chair. Committee, before you leave, I would like for you, come up here around the, everybody come right up here a minute. Ms. Clemmer, before
you run off, come up here just a second. Yeah, come up here. We're just around the table here. We just want you to be here when we do this presentation. we appreciate Mark's help
for the session and Juanita we appreciate your
Speaker 65
20:04
help for the session and your help thank you
Speaker 67
20:06
committee for all the hard work you've done it's been tough I know
Agenda
Documents
No documents posted.
Speakers
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
Speaker 1
Speaker 4
Speaker 16
Speaker 17
Representative Jane English
Unverified
Speaker 22
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
Speaker 24
Speaker 21
Speaker 32
Speaker 28
Representative Donna Hutchinson
Unverified
Representative Tim Summers
Unverified
Speaker 43
Speaker 50
Speaker 58
Speaker 63
Speaker 65
Speaker 67