House State Agencies and Governmental Affairs Committee
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Bills discussed (2)
| Bill | Title | Sponsor | Status |
|---|---|---|---|
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HB1836
· 2 mentions in chapter, transcript
Matched: “HB1836”
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Pre-2017 bill | ||
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SB871
· 1 mention in transcript
Matched: “I declare a quorum, and we're going to pass over Senate Bill 871. Senator Thompson is not going to run that bill. We're goin…”
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Pre-2017 bill |
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Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
0:00
I declare a quorum, and we're going to pass over Senate Bill 871. Senator Thompson is not going to run that bill. We're going to take up House Bill 1836. Representative Cheatham and
Representative Moore is going to run this bill. If you would, take it into the table, and y'all are ready to present Bill 1836. Thank
Representative Robert S. Moore, Jr.
Unverified
0:28
you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.
You all have the amendment before you. Mr. Speaker, you've got an
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
0:37
amendment. What's the will of the committee on the amendment? We have a motion. Do pass on the amendment. Representative Klemmer.
Clemmer, sorry, Representative Clemmer. Just
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
0:54
a brief point of information. What bill are we amending? What's the original bill?
1836. I'm sorry, but which one, whose bill
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
1:08
was that? Mine. Okay. One I pulled back from the floor for purposes of amendment. Okay. 1836, and this is the amendment that is going to replace that original bill. Okay. That
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
1:20
was my question. Thank you. We
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
1:22
have a motion on the floor for the adopted amendment. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? We've adopted the amendment.
Representative Moore and Representative Cheatham, you're ready to present the
Representative Robert S. Moore, Jr.
Unverified
1:40
bill as amended. Bill as amended, and basically the bill is the amendment, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. As I was saying, you all have a copy of the amendment there in front of you. It basically tells the narrative composition of the proposals for the new congressional districts. Likewise, you have a map that you have posted on the wall, and I think each of you have a map showing you the counties and precincts that are in the congressional district.
You all, having been down this road quite a few times before, I will tell you that we are – I'm here to present this amendment today as a – as our duty that we have to adopt the boundaries for new congressional districts and in fulfilling that duty to do what we do – have to do sometime in the legislative process, and that's breach some compromise – compromises.
And that's the result of the amendment here today. We are bound under the law to divide these congressional districts up so that they are equal within a margin of error of one-half of one percent, which is roughly about 300 people that have to be equalized to an equal basis in each of the four congressional districts. and in meeting that obligation the the drafters of the amendment and those who've spent the
hours down in the the room wherever wherever these deliberations are made i'm proud to say i've never been there we did try to as best possible in meeting the population mass in each of the four districts to stay with county boundaries or geographical boundaries and to not split cities up. We were, I think, the drafters in drawing up the map were successful in the latter in
not having to split cities. We did find convenience in geographical boundary, but as is evidence, there were four, five instances, I believe, where in order to get the population balance and balance political and geographical interest, that counties were split. With that, Mr. Chairman, I would certainly be happy to take any questions or let Mr.
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
4:26
Cheatham take any questions. Representative Cheatham, do you have any input
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
4:31
to add? I really do not. I'd just like to thank this committee. I know it's been a lot of hard work, and I know there's been some challenging times, and if I've said anything to offend anyone on this committee, I apologize in the public setting. And I think Representative Moore made it very clear that it's a difficult job. Anytime you move one place, you have to move somewhere else. You cannot make everyone happy. But I think this is the best map that I've seen.
As Senator Thompson said the other day, it may not be my first choice, but it's the best possible map to get out of the session, and I think we have that duty, as he expressed, to
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
5:12
do that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Representative Lee? I'm sorry, one second. Are you
Speaker 28
5:21
all ready to take questions, Mr. Cheatham? Mr. Moore
Speaker 31
5:25
is. Representative Lee? Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I respect it is difficult drawing a map
and getting it clear. And if I understand you correctly, you like this map. It's not your absolute favorite, but you think it's the best so far, Mr. Cheatham. Is that what I heard you
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
5:40
say? That's what I said. I do not. It's not my favorite choice. Your favorite
choice was mine, wasn't it? Yes. That's what I figured. That's what I figured. But I think this one answers most of the questions, most of the concerns, not every concern, but I think the majority of the concerns have been expressed by not just this body, but by people all over the state of Arkansas.
Speaker 31
6:01
My question is twofold, or two questions, if I could. You took a little bit out of Searcy up there. Is there a reason you did that instead of just taking a little bit more out of Jefferson so you'd split one less county? And my second question is the line coming down Crawford and
Representative Robert S. Moore, Jr.
Unverified
6:26
Sebastian, does that follow geographical? What does that follow? As regards your question on Jefferson and Searcy, the boundary in Jefferson County is the Arkansas River,
so that was following the geographical boundary there was the reason for sticking with that. And in all honesty, I have not been in the map room and drawing this out, So I don't know. I can't tell you exactly why that little, I guess, that precinct up in Searcy County, contiguous to the rest of 3rd District, met the population requirements that were necessary. And I can't answer your question on geographical boundary. I'm not familiar with that part of Sebastian County.
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
7:13
Any other questions? Representative Lee, are you through with your question? Thank you,
Representative Donna Hutchinson
Unverified
7:26
Mr. Chairman. Rep. Hutchison. Thank you. There you go. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Looking at this, I saw this has great similarities to Senator Luker's map. His map split one county, and this map splits four or five. Why did you choose this map over Senator Luker's map that only split one county when they're so much alike?
Representative Robert S. Moore, Jr.
Unverified
7:51
I don't have Senator Luker's map here in front of me. I can just tell you that this was the work of House and Senate leadership to try to come up with a map that addressed what we consider to be hot topic issues with either members here or constituents back home in order to accommodate a fair balancing of those interests
and meet the population requirements. This is one of probably 500 maps. And to go back and compare to the other 499, I'll just tell you this is the best that we can do in terms of leadership and agreement. Any other questions? Is there any – Representative Klemmer? I
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
8:48
think my question is more for you, Mr. Chairman, if I could – if it's not out of
order. You had two maps, and that was why I was asking the question earlier. I have kept up with these maps. One was 1322 and one was 1836. One was what we were so lovingly referring to as the Fayetteville finger. That was 1836. And then one was a little bit bigger. I guess my question is, do we have, right now we have one map that has been approved
by us and the Chamber? Is that correct, where
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
9:28
we stand right now? Yes. We have one map that has been referred
back down to the Senate end, and that's 1822. 1322, okay. 1322, 1836 was a map we had on the floor that I brought back for
an amendment purposes to this committee, and this is where the amendment is right now. Okay, so this
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
9:52
would just give us one other.
If we pass this map, that would give us essentially two maps that the House
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
10:04
would still be able. Well, the House has already voted for one. We can send another one down. It will be up to
the Senate to decide which way they would like, or they can reject both and send something else back. Or we can keep passing
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
10:21
bills and maps. I'm sorry. I just wanted to be
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
10:24
clear where we were. Unfortunately, we got 998 maps, and we should have destroyed 987 of them,
but there's still a bunch of maps floating around here. They're similar in makeup, but not the map that we're looking at today. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Is there
anyone from the audience like to speak against the bill? Representative Bernard, would you like to speak? speak against the bill. If y'all gentlemen would, if you would step aside
and let Representative Bernard have the table. You're recognized, Representative Bernard.
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
11:06
Representative Bernard Bernard. Thank you. It gives me great pleasure to sit here where my speaker has sat and my colleague, Mr. Cheatham, and to address this committee concerning this map, this latest map. I'll have two segments of my testimony with regard to this map. One of them will talk about economic development and some numbers, and a second one will talk about process. Many of you, I think all of you on this committee and some
those in our audience here were present when my colleague from Northwest Arkansas, Mr. Lindsey, spoke about the reasons for keeping Fayetteville in the third and the other parts of that map. I think I'll not repeat all of those things that he said because I think about 80 percent what my esteemed colleague said about Fayetteville with regard to economic development and other
issues applies also to Sebastian County and its lead city of Fort Smith. I do want to indicate to you that in the past, at least since I've been a state representative, which is a little over almost four and a half years now, we have made great strides in aligning ourselves along the northwest corridor from Fort Smith, basically from our county up toward
I-540 and through that area, because many of you are aware that I-49 is part of that road that will come down through when we finally get the money, which may not be in my lifetime. But we have been working steadily with our congressional congressman about that. And one of the things that we have done is we have begun discussions with our colleagues in northwest Arkansas about our commonalities.
And I think that has been of great assistance to us in our area in Sebastian County as well as to them. Because as the second largest city in the state, Fort Smith, which I know is included in the third, but the problematic part of that is that it's the lead city for all of Sebastian County. And splitting two different parts of our county, the upper northeast section and the lower half of the county, and taking those into the fourth doesn't make a lot of sense to
me. There could have been an attempt to put all of Sebastian, if you're going to split the county, two different parts of it that aren't even connected, you could actually have put the whole county into the fourth, which of course we're opposed to, but that would have been one alternative. Just let me mention three things that we have done in our area of Sebastian County in western Arkansas. We formed a regional intermodal transportation authority.
It's really based on the two counties, both Crawford and Sebastian, to further align ourselves and place us toward our economic development goals and not only highway but waterways and railroad. And we have worked with many of the cities that were in the third, and that includes Alma, cities in Franklin County, Paris, Charleston, La Vaca, Van Buren, many of those cities
in that area in western Arkansas. We're also the lead county in a four-county MSA, which includes Crawford and Sebastian and La Flora and Sequoia. So by doing this map actually splits that MSA, which I'm sure that the drawers of the map were not aware of. This has been a standing MSA ever since I can remember. So this actually splits our counties with regard to that MSA.
We're 45 minutes from Fayetteville, maybe less if you put to the medal a little bit, We're 45 minutes from Fayetteville with another 15 minutes to Springdale and another 15, 20 minutes to Rogers. So we are very connected to Northwest Arkansas and Sebastian County. We just recently, I'm not home to listen to the City Board of Directors, which has endorsed all of Sebastian County being in the third.
But last night at the replay of our Board of Directors meeting, a gentleman, a developer in Fort Smith in western Arkansas, talked about a new development, 324-house development in the southern part of the county, which will actually be, as we, for many of those who haven't been to Fort Smith, you know that Fort Smith is growing toward the south part
of the county. We're bounded by the river on the north and bounded by the river on the west. So growth areas, the only growth area, and we're bounded by our sister city, Barling. So the way to grow is toward the south, down 71, all that lower half of Sebastian County. And we're very connected to Lubacca, which is part of our county and no longer will be, I believe, by this map, in the third.
It's a great little city, a very innovative school system there. So we also had a recent, in the last five years, Riley Farms development, attracting a lot of people to that area, the southern part of the city and the southern part of the county. So, I would ask you to remember about 80 percent of what my esteemed colleague, Mr. Lindsay, talked to you about in terms of economic development, and also some of the comments
that I've made today. You know, I'm not only representing my city, which is the second largest city in the state, in excess of 120,000, 125,000 people in Sebastian County, and Fort Smith being about 89,000. But having said that, I just have one remaining remark about process, Mr. Chair and committee, and that is that since I received this map just late this afternoon, as y'all did around
2 o'clock, 2.15. I've been on the phone with not only people from our Chamber of Commerce but business people and planning people in the Sebastian County, also with Western Arkansas Planning and Development District talking about numbers and the MSAs and other issues of that nature which would be affected by this move. None of those individuals will have an opportunity to have input and give all of you input about
their thoughts about this map. Most of you know that we're on the western border of the state. It's a two-and-a-half to three-hour drive. None of them could get here by 4 o'clock. And so I would suggest to you that in all due fairness to those who live in the western part of the state and are affected by this change of this particular map, that at the
very least they should have an opportunity to have public input into this map, just as the other maps have had the opportunity of public input. I would suggest that to you for your consideration. Mr. Chairman, Committee, I would
be glad to take any questions you might have. Representative Kramer. Thank you, Mr.
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
19:55
Chairman. We have had an awful lot of maps to look at, Representative Penartz.
Thank you for taking questions. Last week, we voted on a map that only split one county, and we did not vote for that map. That was my presentation. Do you remember how – were you in support of that map? No, I was
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
20:26
not. I was in support of the House map, which passed – it seems
like longer than two weeks ago now.
I was in support of that map, and it came out of our House and went to the Senate. And I believe the Senate chose not to accept that map. And so here we are with our speaker's efforts and leadership trying to come to compromise with the Senate. And I applaud our speaker for his efforts, not only his but Mr. Hall, who has worked on this and others.
who have worked on this compromise map before you. I did not have any input into this map. I have not drawn any maps. I haven't taken my crayons out and taken the current congressional districts and tried to use my crayons to draw different districts, first, second, third, or fourth. But I think that my colleagues on this committee as well as you, Representative Klemmer, know Right from the very beginning, I have maintained my stance that Sebastian County, all of it,
not just half of it, should be in the third because we have characteristics in common with our sister cities in northwest Arkansas. If I could just follow up. I mean,
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
21:54
I agree. I don't like, and I think I've been consistent, I don't like splitting counties more than necessary. And that was my objection to the map that you supported. But I'm confused. I supported the map that passed out of the House. I understand. But it did split a number
of counties. My position was that. Now, my question is, though, it seems that your testimony against this is that it splits your business community. But the Fayetteville Finger split that
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
22:26
community. Well, I believe I said that 80 percent of what Mr. Lindsey said applies to us being in the fourth also. And by the way, Representative Kilmer, I appreciated your efforts last week on a compromise map. It was not accepted by this committee, and yes, I did vote against it.
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
22:47
I guess it's sort of like we're all saying, as long as it's not me, not my, you know, don't split me. And I understand that your position you're taking is probably the only one you can take. No one wants their county to be split. I just think that any map we approve should have as few splits as
possible, and that would include your county. But thank you for making
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
23:12
a good case for Sebastian County to be intact. I appreciate your questions as always, Representative Klemmer, and appreciate your efforts toward
Speaker 66
23:19
compromise. Representative Lee. Representative Nichols. Mr.
Representative Jim Nickels
Unverified
23:31
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Representative Penards, I know we all are trying to stay away from splitting governance,
but I think what you've said is the way the map is designed now, it kind of leaves Fort Smith intact but splits the lower half of the county. I'm
I'm not sure about this, but isn't Sebastian County one of the few counties in the state that actually splits its county seat already? I'm sorry, sir. Isn't Sebastian County one of the few counties in the state that actually has two county
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
24:13
seats? Well, there are several counties in the state, Mr. Nichols, that have split county seats. Sebastian County happens to be one of them. It's true.
Representative Jim Nickels
Unverified
24:21
So do you know if that boundary that they have here takes that in consideration or not?
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
24:27
No, sir. I have not had sufficient time to study the map. I've been on the phone with my people in western Arkansas trying to determine what effects superficially this map might have on us, and I guess that's one reason why I indicated a need for appropriate process to have our people come and give you personally input about their thoughts about this map by coming to a meeting maybe tomorrow morning
at 10 o'clock to give input just as others have had the opportunity for public input on the maps that have been
Representative Jim Nickels
Unverified
25:07
presented. Would you say that two county seats for Sebastian County
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
25:14
has worked? I think it has had its problems at times. We've made it work. We have a frontier spirit in Sebastian County, and I think that we have tried to make the very best of having two county seats. I come originally born and raised in a county, Franklin County, which had split county seats,
Charleston and Ozark. So I'm well aware of how that has caused problems between county governments, county and city city governments having been split like that. But I think Sebastian County has done their very best with having split county seats. Okay. Thank you, Representative Penartz. Thank you, Mr.
Chairman. You're most welcome. Representative Nichols. Representative Tyler. I'm
Representative Linda S. Tyler
Unverified
26:01
sorry. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Representative Penartz. Yes, ma'am.
Thank you for your testimony. Certainly. I have said to you personally, and I'll say publicly, your district should be proud to have you
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
26:15
as their state representative. You
Representative Linda S. Tyler
Unverified
26:17
represent your district very well. Well, thank you, and I hear a but coming. No, ma'am. It is not a but. It is an and. And, okay. And have you considered that having two congressmen or women representing Sebastian County might improve the odds of getting I-49 funded?
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
26:39
I think back to the remark that Mr. Lindsey said about
that, which I shan't repeat here. But I think that that is, while it may be true, there are many things in terms, and I having had experience, 25 years of experience in health care, and I'm glad you asked this question because when you talk about planning and development grants, often what happens is when you apply for federal money, that money goes to a particular congressional district.
And so when you split a county not just in half like you did Crawford County, east and west, you took or not you, I apologize for that. This map takes the upper northeast section of the county and the lower southern section of the county and cuts off those areas in terms of planning and development grants from the federal government with regard to taking in common the application for grants and federal
money. In addition, the MSA that I mentioned, the four-county MSA, is very important. We have a bi-state planning development that was originally developed this past year. And when you talk about in terms of economic development, which we're very concerned with as the second largest city in the state and also a trade center for western Arkansas, we're very concerned about what effect I talked to our planning and development district person,
Rusty Myers. We're very concerned about what effect that's going to have upon our planning and development in our economic indicator numbers and population numbers in terms of those grants that we submit money for. And I speak from personal experience in my job having done that in health care and how difficult it would be to have in terms of a split county in terms of a congressional
Speaker 78
28:50
district. Thank you, ma'am. You're most welcome. Rep. Are you aware that this map
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
29:04
splits the city of Alma? Well, that's problematic also. I didn't mention it before, but we have a Fort Smith Regional Chamber of Commerce, and Alma has been very much a part of that regional Chamber of Commerce and economic development efforts, and in fact, you know, they have applied for
monies in terms of being able to receive monies from the money that we, not state money, we in western Arkansas raise through our businesses to help develop the western Arkansas area. And that includes not only parts of Sebastian County, but reaches out
Speaker 31
29:41
to our neighbors to the east. Well, I suppose this question was probably more because the statement was made, the attempt was by Speaker Moore and Representative Cheatham that it did not split cities.
And I just got up and was looking at the
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
29:58
map and realized that it does split
ALMA. I saw in just a superficial read of the amendment two voting districts from ALMA I believe are included in here. I know 16 voting districts in the Sebastian counties, 16 are included in this split. But I do believe, and please correct me if I'm wrong, I believe, as you have noticed, there are two ALMA voting districts there.
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
30:25
Thank you. I'm not having anyone else to speak, ask questions, Representative Bernard. I appreciate your
input. Is anyone in the room who would like to speak for this bill? Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, colleagues, for your questions.
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
30:44
You're welcome. Is anyone in the room who would like
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
30:48
to speak before the bill? Anyone on the room who would like to speak against the bill?
Representative, you can take the end of the table, and you're welcome
Representative Terry Rice
Unverified
31:06
to speak against the bill. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Terry Rice State Representative. I probably have more square miles in this change in Sebastian County than another representative of that particular county. I apologize for being late. I've been on the phone. What I heard a
while ago, Representative Nichols asked about the two courthouses, two county
seats. From what I see on this map, they both stay in
the third. Is that understood? Could you answer that for me, Mr. Chairman? You had asked a question again? Representative Nichols mentioned about the split county seat, Greenwood-Fort
Smith. From my view of this map, they both stay in the third, and what's left out in the northeast corner and the south is without a county seat.
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
32:00
We did not go, as far as I know, that was not in the equation in which we drew. I was
Representative Terry Rice
Unverified
32:08
not aware that there were two county seats in Sebastian County. Greenwood and Fort Smith, and I understood what Representative Nichols was talking about. I thought maybe it sounded better because there were split county seats as the previous proposed map in Logan County was, but that is not the case from the way I view this, and that's what I was asking for clarification, but from the closest I can read the map, that's not it. You do have problems with, I think, planning and development districts in Sebastian County.
I do think because you split it, the heart out of it, you've left north and south Sebastian out, is greatly concerning. But that is my question. I cannot support this. Are you speaking against this bill or are you asking questions, Dr. Andrews? I am doing both.
Speaker 85
32:49
I'm seeking. Well, I'm afraid you're going to have to ask questions to some
Speaker 20
32:53
other time, but you're certainly welcome to speak against the bill if you
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
32:58
so desire. Well, I thank you, Mr. Sherman. We're not in a question answering right now.
Representative Terry Rice
Unverified
33:05
If you would, speak against the bill. I appreciate that, Mr. Chairman. I will state that I'm against it, and we've had the map less than 30 minutes, and I appreciate
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
33:16
the opportunity. Thank you, committee. Thank you. Anyone in the room would like to
speak for the bill, against the bill? If not, it's what's the pleasure of the court. Representative Cowling? Do pass. We have a motion to
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
33:33
do pass. As amended. As amended. Representative Bernard? Mr. Chair, I apologize if I'm bringing this to
your attention too late, but I would
like some indication from you if my people in the western half of the state are going to have an opportunity to have public input through the public process to give their opinion about this map to my colleagues that sit on this committee through testimony? I don't see
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
34:10
how that can happen other than after the fact.
If you would like to have it during the interim, then come down
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
34:18
and explain. Well, I think that would not be appropriate. If the Chair will entertain
a motion, I'll move that we delay decision upon this map.
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
34:27
We'd have to get Representative Cowen to rescind his motion because he has a primary motion on the
table right now. Well, I have a
Speaker 29
34:46
substitute motion. Mr. Allen? Okay. If you would, Representative
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
34:53
Penard, would a substitute motion be proper?
It would not. Would a motion
delay the issue on the table until my people have had a chance to come over here and testify through public testimony about their thoughts about
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
35:08
this map? Would that be appropriate? Is it to table this
Speaker 91
35:13
motion? Let me look at my book here. Thank
Speaker 104
35:18
you, sir. We may need you to vote. I'm just going to go out
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
35:26
to you. Representative Penard, due to the actions of the Senate
Committee a while ago, I'm not
going to recognize that motion or substitute motion, and we're going to
go forward with the procedures as it stands with Representative
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
35:41
Cowling's motion. Could I ask the Chair if it's appropriate? What was, since obviously I've not been privy to what the
Speaker 91
35:50
Senate did, what was this? They passed out this amendment in the Senate unanimously as a committee. So you don't? As it was explained. Okay.
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
36:01
Well, I appreciate your entertaining the point of information.
I object to the fact, Mr. Chair, that the people from western Arkansas will not have an opportunity to have
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
36:14
public testimony on this map. I concur in your sentiments completely. I also questioned why the Northwest Arkansas Chamber wasn't here, sitting here, not speaking against this motion at the same time since they're in the room. But that's another story we can talk about later. We have a motion
on the floor. Do pass.
All in favor say aye. As amended. Any opposed say no. No.
Motion passed as amended. Do I see another hand? We have a roll
Speaker 108
36:51
call. Yes. Representative Cheatham? Yes. Representative Gardner? Yes. Representative Gardner? Yes. Representative Robeck? Yes. Representative Hatchinson? No. Representative Hatchinson? No. Representative Hatchinson? Yes.
Representative Cowling? Yes. Representative Penards? No. Representative Baird? No. Representative Baird? No. Representative Hobbs? No. Representative Hobbs? No. Representative Lee? Representative Lee Representative Wilkins Representative Tyler Representative Hopper Representative Hopper Representative Klemmer Representative Nichols Representative McLean
Representative Rogers Representative Steele Representative Vines
Speaker 111
37:47
Representative Slinkley Mr. Chair, point of information, point
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
38:05
I believe that Representative Cheatham voted yes, but he's not present in his seat here
at the end of the table where he usually sits.
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
38:15
He was representing, he was handing the bill at the other end. Well, he's not present in his
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
38:20
seat to vote, sir. I would challenge that vote. Mr. Chair, I believe
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
38:24
that is a House rule and not a committee rule. We will have to
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
38:29
get an interpretation of the parliamentarian. Thank you very much. Just everybody
sit right here and we'll take care of it. Thank you. Let's get the parliamentarian down here. I don't believe that is a rule in this committee, but we will make sure. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Most welcome. I appreciate that. While we are waiting for the parliamentarian down, the bill do pass motion on 1836 as amended past 11 to 2. I also like to make announcements. A co-chair is in very, she's still in the hospital. She's not doing well.
She's very ill. And if the members of this committee has the opportunity to send her a note or some contact with her, if you have the opportunity, I'm sure she would greatly appreciate it. By my understanding from other sources up in the northwest Arkansas, she's in pretty bad shape. So if we would, let's keep her in our prayers. And if we have an opportunity, let's send her some kind of note.
Unknown speaker
39:45
Thank you. The parliamentarian is on his way. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Representative Larry Cowling
Unverified
42:38
Mr. Chair, can I just make a motion that we do a recount?
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
43:08
Point of information, Mr. Chair. Representative Bernard,
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
43:14
I'm sorry. I think it's proper. I think that it's proper for
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
43:18
us to wait for the parliamentarian and not be in a rush about this. And we're going to wait, Representative Bernard. Thank you.
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
43:26
And we are going to wait on the ruling from the parliamentarian and then if Representative Cowling
wants to have a motion to reconsider it and vote it again, you know, that would be his choice. MS.
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
43:38
Thank you. He wouldn't have to do that unless it's nullified. And then if so, sir, I have a substitute motion. MR. So noted. Ladies and gentlemen, members,
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
44:33
we have had our parliamentarian here and he has made a ruling, and the ruling is correct, Representative Bernard. Since Representative, are we going to, Mr. Parliamentarian, you have the mic. His or her assigned voting station, that
Speaker 66
44:51
is, his or her seat on the House floor. Now, it
Speaker 127
44:54
has the House floor there, but we have another rule in there that says that the rules of the House are applicable in the committee so long as they're applicable.
and so I'd have to rule that if he wasn't at his seat, which at would be in the vicinity of it, that his vote can't be counted. And what do you call vicinity, Mr. Chair? The
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
45:14
room? Well, no, I would say at his seat would be anywhere where he could touch
Speaker 127
45:20
it. And so if he was down at the... Well, not down there. What if he was
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
45:28
running the bill down the other end and made a motion to do pass? He didn't make a motion to do pass. But if he was sitting down there and somebody made a
motion to do pass, would his vote count then or not?
Speaker 127
45:38
Well, I think he would have to be given allowable time to get back to his or her seat. Nothing that you do can help this rule that says you've got to be at your seat. So it doesn't say he's not counted if he's presenting a bill. Well, it says you have to be there. It doesn't have
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
45:57
any provisions for not being there. Mr. Chair, I think from that ruling, as I understand it from Mr. Massanelli, the vote was not proper.
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
46:05
I'm going to rule that the vote was not proper. We're expunging that vote due to the fact that the rules did not allow it.
Speaker 15
46:13
And you have a substitute motion. You have a substitute motion that we're going
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
46:19
to listen to. I appeal your ruling on my substitute motion
to delay, to place it on the table to be discussed at a later time. I think that
was a proper substitute motion in my understanding of the rules and was not proper for you. I also
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
46:35
understand, if I understand the rules, I do not have to recognize any motion at any time if I so desire as chair of this committee.
That is correct, Rob Palamaterian. And I stated that I was not accepting your motion, and that was a proper ruling from this chair. Well, I appreciate that, Mr. Chair. And we can get the parliamentarian here
to your firm. Yes, sir. If he could please explain it
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
47:00
so everybody can understand it. Mr. Parliamentarian? He doesn't have to
Speaker 132
47:06
take a motion if that's what your question is. He does not have to take a motion. If I may, Mr. Chair. It doesn't make any difference when you make it or how you make it.
He doesn't have to take it. And the only thing you can do is appeal the ruling of the chair and it takes the majority
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
47:23
of the membership of the committee to overrule a chair. Well,
Speaker 91
47:27
that's what I do. I appeal the ruling of the chair. Well, now we're doing that after the fact. But we ruled that Mr. Cheatham was not in his seat, and therefore his vote does not count. Okay, so now the vote is 10 to
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
47:42
2. 10 to 2. And that means the motion did not pass nor fail.
So we're sitting here, and you have a substitute motion you'd like to make. Yes,
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
47:51
sir. What is your substitute motion? My
substitute motion is that we delay vote upon this amended bill until 10 o'clock in the morning in order to allow appropriate persons to come here and give public testimony as they have on the other maps that we've dealt with in order that they might be able to publicly testify about their thoughts about this map,
and specifically people from Fort Smith, which is three hours
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
48:23
away. That is a motion to postpone until tomorrow. Representative Cowley,
Speaker 136
48:33
was before her was to reconsider a while
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
48:38
ago. We were at recess until the parliamentarian came down here when you made that suggestion, and I will not recognize that one because we were not at our seats
and in a formal manner this committee should operate. Now, you have asked Representative Bernard has postponed. It's non-debatable, the majority of the quorum. All in favor of postponing this action, say aye. Aye. All opposed, say no. No. I really know the no's have it. We have a roll call. If you are wanting to postpone the action until in the morning at 9 o'clock, did you say, or 10?
Or 9 or 10 o'clock in the morning is
Speaker 108
49:31
a yes. If you don't, it's a no. Representative Cheatham. Representative Gardner Representative Roebuck Representative Hutchinson Representative Cowling Representative Penards Representative Baird Representative Hobbs Representative Lee Representative Wilkins
Representative Wilkins Representative Tyler Representative Tyler Representative Harper Representative Hopper Representative Klemmer Representative Klemmer Representative Nichols Representative McLean Representative Rogers Representative Rogers Representative Steele Representative Vines Representative Slinkard
Representative Paul The motion failed to lay it
Speaker 20
50:46
on the table. Six to eight. So, Representative Cowley
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
50:59
Do you have a motion? To reconsider the vote You either have a motion to adopt the bill as amended
or you don't. What is your motion? Point of order Representative Nichols Do we
Speaker 90
51:19
have to have a motion to expunge, or can the
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
51:23
chair do that? Well, if he was ruled ineligible, the motion failed.
Okay. So it doesn't mean an expungement or anything else because it was a 10 to 8 vote. So it did not pass. So there's no expungement because there was no vote that was acceptable. Now we have a motion to approve the bill as amended on House Bill 1836. Representative Lee. I'm no rules expert.
Speaker 31
52:00
I just play one here in the legislature. My understanding is we cannot vote on the same bill twice in the same meeting. That bill was just voted on and failed. And so my understanding is we can't turn around and vote on that bill again right now. Is that correct? Yeah, his motion was another due pass. All right,
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
52:28
Reverend Kalinger, you're going to make a motion to reconsider House Bill 1836.
Yes. We have a motion to reconsider Bill 1836. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? No. The ayes have it. Now, Representative Cowley, do you have a
Speaker 36
52:46
motion? To pass House Bill 1836 as amended. We have
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
52:49
a motion to pass the 1836 as amended. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Say no. No. The ayes have it. We are through for the day, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you all for coming.
Agenda
Documents
No documents posted.
Speakers
Representative Clark Hall
Unverified
Representative Robert S. Moore, Jr.
Unverified
Representative Ann V. Clemmer
Unverified
Representative Eddie L. Cheatham
Unverified
Speaker 28
Speaker 31
Representative Donna Hutchinson
Unverified
Representative Tracy Pennartz
Unverified
Speaker 66
Representative Jim Nickels
Unverified
Representative Linda S. Tyler
Unverified
Speaker 78
Representative Terry Rice
Unverified
Speaker 85
Speaker 20
Speaker 29
Speaker 91
Speaker 104
Speaker 108
Speaker 111
Speaker 115
Representative Larry Cowling
Unverified
Speaker 127
Speaker 15
Speaker 132
Speaker 125
Speaker 136
Speaker 90
Speaker 36