House Aging Children and Youth Legislative & Military Affairs
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Transcript
Bills discussed (6)
| Bill | Title | Sponsor | Status |
|---|---|---|---|
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HB1217
· 3 mentions in chapter, transcript
Matched: “HB1217”
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Pre-2017 bill | ||
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HR1004
· 2 mentions in chapter, transcript
Matched: “HR1004”
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Pre-2017 bill | ||
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HB1029
· 1 mention in transcript
Matched: “week. MR. Okay. I don't see Representative Link at all, so House Bill 1029, I think that one's also going to be passed over as well be…”
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Pre-2017 bill | ||
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HB1209
· 1 mention in transcript
Matched: “House Bill 1209, I don't see Representative Hutchinson here to do anything…”
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Pre-2017 bill | ||
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HR1005
· 1 mention in transcript
Matched: “…ll right. Thank you, committee. Thank you. Okay. Let's see. House Resolution 1005. Is there anybody here that wishes to run that resolution?…”
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Pre-2017 bill | ||
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HR106
· 1 mention in transcript
Matched: “…ody here that wishes to run that resolution? Seeing no one. House Resolution 106.”
|
Pre-2017 bill |
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Chair
Unverified
0:00
House Bill 1209, I don't see Representative Hutchinson here to do anything with his bill. House Bill 1217, I believe Representative Link is getting his picture taken and he'll be in here in just a few moments, so we'll get to that one in just a moment. So we're going to go ahead and do House Resolution 1004. And Representative Hopper, you are recognized to present your resolution. Good morning, Mr. Chair and committee.
Thank you for this opportunity to speak to you this morning, and I am here on behalf of
Representative Barnett, who really, really wanted to do this job. But he, as you know, he has been having a few medical issues, and he's trying to get those addressed this morning. So I would ask before we get into this resolution that you continue to remember him in your prayers. Like I said, he really, really wanted to be here.
But in any event, he's asked me to step in, and I'm pleased to do so. I hope you've had an opportunity to review the resolution and its content. It pretty much speaks for itself, but I would like to, if I could, fill in a little background for you, particularly for those around the table that are new and may not know the history of both the content of this resolution and how it relates to our Arkansas, and particularly those of the General Assembly, and the history of our state with the Turquoise Council.
A little history, as I said, we have long enjoyed a spirit of friendship with the Turquoise Council, and there are folks from the Turquoise Council that I think that many of you hopefully have had the opportunity to meet here. Two of those members are with us today in the audience, Mehmet and Rashid. If you all can wave your hands so that the committee can see you, and hopefully this will start to put the pieces together for you
about what this resolution means. As I said, we have long enjoyed a spirit of friendship with these representatives of the council, and through that friendship for a number of years, the General Assembly has worked with them, and we've had a series of receptions. You should have received an invitation to this reception next week at the Governor's Mansion, and I hope you've RSVP'd to that, and we'll extend your appreciation and friendship to them
as we continue this relationship. Because of the Turquoise Council, we have kindly grown beyond that to include a spirit of friendship with Azerbaijan. And next week, it is my understanding, in addition to the members of the Turquoise Council there, there will be a delegation here from Azerbaijan. Those of you that may have been here two years ago when we hosted this reception with both those from Turkey and from Azerbaijan, you will recall that the delegation from Azerbaijan spoke, I guess you would just say appreciably and almost glowingly of the support of our military 21 years ago that speaks to the heart of this resolution.
And I will tell you, if you had the opportunity to be in that room, you would – there was no way you could have left that reception that evening not feeling proud of the United States of America, our armed forces, and this friendship. And like I said, that's what the resolution speaks to. I think that pretty much fills in the gaps. I would obviously entertain any questions you might have. And at the end of that, I would welcome a positive support from you.
Speaker 2
4:16
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Representative Hopper. Are there any questions from the committee? Seeing none, what is the pleasure
Chair
Unverified
4:25
of the committee? Representative Deppenball, you're recognized. Motion do pass. All right. Motion before the committee is do pass. All those in support of the motion say aye. Aye. Those opposed? MR. Congratulations, Representative Hopper. You passed your resolution. MS. Thank you, Mr. Chair,
Speaker 8
4:44
and thank you, Committee, and I hope to see you all next
Chair
Unverified
4:47
week. MR. Okay. I don't see Representative Link at all, so House Bill 1029, I think that one's also going to be passed over as well because they were going to amend the bill. Next up is House Resolution. Okay. Representative link you are here are you ready to present or did you want a couple of moments to catch your breath looks not okay
representative link you're recognized present House Bill 1217 well I was quite uncourteously just presented with a problem of
Representative Kelley Linck
Unverified
5:29
this bill potentially and I'm trying to decide what I want to do here okay I brought people in to testify and And, you know, sometimes agencies walk into your meeting and tell you there's a problem instead of getting a hold of you beforehand. And sometimes we're not happy about that. But I think I'll go ahead and present it, and we'll see where it goes.
Okay. You're recognized. Go ahead. Bill, if you want to come on up here and have
a seat. I'll introduce Bill here in a minute. My district, north central Arkansas, of course, we don't have a lot of crops. We don't have a lot of industry other than tourism. That's what we do. And, of course, we have lakes and rivers, Bull Shoals Lake, Norfolk Lake, White River, Buffalo River, Crooked Creek. They're all, everything I've just mentioned there, with the possible exception of Crooked Creek, is actually managed by other organizations, such as Corps of Engineers takes care of our lakes.
They manage that resource. A lot of it is managed by National Forest Land. And then, of course, there's National Park Service, who manages the Buffalo River. and they've made some recent changes that has affected our canoeing outfitters on that river and therefore I wrote this bill that would help move some of that potential liability that the outfitters are now being faced with and would move it back to where more of a common sense type thing.
By no means does this bill try to get any liability away from the outfitters of what they do. They provide equipment. That's what they do. And as you read through there, you'll see that they're still completely liable for providing good equipment. What they don't want to be liable for is everything else in between. You hit a rock, turn over, that's part of canoeing. And it's a little bit of a concern now with maybe how the National Park Service has written some of their stuff. But Mr. Bill Scruggs is here, and he can probably explain it a little more in depth for you.
Chair
Unverified
7:28
How are you all today? If you could, sir, just please
Speaker 20
7:34
state your name and organization you're with. My name is Bill Scruggs, and I own Wild Bill's Outfitters on the Buffalo River. I guess some of the reason that, of course, I appreciate Kelly and what he's done on this bill. I think it's something that we have needed in the past, and we need even more so today because of some new rules and requirements that outfitters such as myself have to have.
An example of that would be where we have to have medical insurance up to $5,000 to cover someone that gets hurt on the river, and it can be something that is absolutely no fault of ours. For instance, an example of that would be if I rented you a canoe and it was a good canoe and it had good equipment, we gave you a proper orientation, safety talk, and told you all about your trip, your put-in and take-out points.
But you get out there on the river and an example would be that maybe you drank a few too many beers and you fell and hit your head on a rock or fell in the campfire or whatever, we have to have medical coverage for that. And I think that is totally ridiculous. It doesn't make any common sense whatsoever. And that kind of insurance is kind of hard to find.
We can get it, but it's expensive. when it covers everything that could happen on the river. Our river and every river in this state is a natural, free-flowing, wild and scenic waterway. And we have no control. It's not a Disneyland ride. And we have no control if a tree falls in the river after we put somebody on and they come around the bend and hit the tree and turn over,
we're being held responsible for an injury and I think in a natural setting which by any means we would not ever want to alter that because that would take away from what the river is about not only that but we as concessionaires we are not authorized to go on the river and clean up any damage or clear a tree out of the way that we're not authorized to do that.
But yet we're being held responsible for something like that if it were to happen. Just common sense rules are all we ask for. We still want to be liable. We want to furnish good equipment, give good safety orientations, good instructions, try to keep our eye out for problems. if somebody's trying to float the river that we don't think is physically able to.
We're on that all the time, trying to weed out any problems beforehand. But the way it is now is let me say I think some of the rules may be called what I would call common sense challenged, the people that think them up. And we just want to get back a little bit closer to common sense. And I think that Kelly's bill, I've read it. Other outfitters have read it.
Speaker 22
11:16
We agree with it, and we're behind it 100%. Okay. Was there
Speaker 23
11:23
any other comments that you would like to make, Representative Link, before we take questions? Sure.
Representative Kelley Linck
Unverified
11:28
I'll just close by saying I did take this to who I would think would be the first people that might object, which would be the Trial Art Association, before we actually filed it. And we changed a couple things on the draft that made them, you know, happier with it or happy with it. Actually, I don't suspect any objection from it, from them.
I think we cleared everything. We have one little issue I just found out as I was standing out here trying to come in here. There's a little bit of perhaps a little language issue with Game and Fish. I'm sure we'll hear from them here in a moment. But I think, you know, we're
just trying to make a common sense bill here, and I think this does so, and I'd be
Chair
Unverified
12:11
glad to take any questions. Any members of the committee have any questions for Representative Bain? Recognized? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Representative John Baine
Unverified
12:18
Thank you, Mr. Link. Just a general question. I know you've explained what you think is kind of outside the bounds of what should be covered. So the flip side is, if this act goes through, what will still be covered? What level of expectation of safety will be expected by the tourist and the community at large when they go to an outfitter?
Representative Kelley Linck
Unverified
12:39
Sure. What this would not let the outfitter off the hook for would be, one, the equipment. I mean, a bad boat, faulty boat, broken paddles, life jackets that won't float, those type of things.
That's the number one thing. The other responsibility that would still be up to them would be not to put people into
a 14-foot flood. You know, to at least say, hey, this water is awfully darned high. Are you sure you want to do this? Or even at some level, which Park Service helps you determine, to absolutely say, no, we're not putting you in. So, yeah, we're not opening it up for a free-for-all to just throw you out there, wish you luck, and hope you live. Oh, the other thing it does do that's currently not required, and Bill, correct me if I'm wrong here,
but this thing also requires that a sign be placed in there saying, hey, you're going canoeing, and you're assuming some risk here. And currently there's not anything that they're required to do or saying, by the way, there's not going to be a lifeguard at every bend or anything. And by having this sign up, it does tell people you're assuming some risk, you're getting a canoe, and something could happen to you. This, by the way, was modeled after really three things. One is a Missouri law with very, very similar language.
Number two, we passed an equine law here some years ago that says if you get on the back of a horse, you're assuming some risk. You know, it's not the most safe thing in the world to do. And three was our agri-tourism law that we passed in the last session that kind of helped the farmers, if you will, that want people to come out and pick blueberries to kind of let people know, you know, you're walking out in the middle of nowhere. There could be a snake or something there, so use some sense. So we use three bills to model this after.
Chair
Unverified
14:22
Okay. Representative Payton, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Do you currently require a waiver to be signed by
Speaker 20
14:32
your consumers? Yes, we do. It's required by the National Park Service, and it's supposed to hold the outfitter and the Park Service harmless. To be honest, I've been in the business 22 years, and I have never had anything happen. We've never hurt anybody on the river to any kind of an extent other than a minor injury,
so that's never been challenged at my establishment. I can't say for others over that period of time, but they are required to sign an acknowledgement of risk waiver thank you represented Broadway you're recognized for a
Chair
Unverified
15:17
question thank you very much representative link
Representative Mary Broadaway
Unverified
15:23
is there someone here from Parks and Recreation or could you elaborate a little bit more about
Representative Kelley Linck
Unverified
15:31
what their concerns are I'm sure they'll get that opportunity here in a moment I think their concern is a in the early part we'd redefine if you will what vessel is and I think there's some concern about by defining that and not redefining a canoe and open top boat that we may have taken away the law that says someone 12 and younger would
have to wear a life jacket I don't again hopefully they'll explain that better here in a
Representative Mary Broadaway
Unverified
16:02
second I didn't have time to get the full
Chair
Unverified
16:05
explanation myself yet yeah when we go to the foreign against them
they'll have that opportunity to do that any other committee members have
any questions representative Davis you recognized thank you chairman representative Lake I was just looking through and all the new language under sub chapter 9 let's see page 3 line 19 I may not be reading
this right I kind of get lost with all the subsections and subsections of subsections and whatnot but it's listed there equipment failure or operator error wouldn't equipment failure be something that the you know rental company I guess would be responsible for if they provide
Representative Kelley Linck
Unverified
17:00
a good canoe good paddles so and so forth you can't ever know that nothing will ever fail we don't know that our car is going to get us from here to the mall without failing so we don't know that equipment will never fail but we they will provide
Chair
Unverified
17:16
good equipment to start the trip with sounds kind of great I mean how would you make the determination I mean if somebody goes out you know a life jacket doesn't float I mean is it just the provider's
Speaker 20
17:31
word that hey it floated when you left I mean can I answer that please okay as you know or I assume that you have floated in a canoe before then you know that a canoe has no moving parts it doesn't have an engine transmission anything like that so at the start of a trip it is obvious and and we have myself my company we have we have
good quality canoes we make sure that they are floatable they're not leaking at the time that that you leave. There are things that can happen while you're out there. You could hit a rock and knock a hole in it, and that's no fault of ours, but when you leave from a landing in one of our canoes or vessels or kayak, raft, whatever, it is in good operating order. The life jackets are Coast Guard approved. They've been checked and
all the straps are good. The paddles are good. They're not cracked, chipped. And I think every good outfitter and every outfitter that I know in the Buffalo does this and they're diligent in making sure that the equipment is good when it leaves. So to say that something is going to break down on the way you know it would have something would have to happen to it to cause it to break down by hitting an obstacle or something like
Speaker 43
18:50
that sure i understand and i'm not going to hold you
Chair
Unverified
18:57
up here i'm just i guess i would suggest that you might add a few more words in there you know something like equipment failure due to user maltreatment or operator error or something like that uh act of nature i mean yeah i've seen canoes get wrapped around trees before and that's not oh
Speaker 20
19:12
Yeah, and people float down the river, and they'll use the life jacket cords to tie two or three canoes together to make a floating raft for a party. Yeah. And then they break the strap, and when it comes in, it's, you know, we dispose of it and issue a new one. But, I mean, you can't help things like that.
Chair
Unverified
19:29
You can't help what people do. Yeah, I've been on fraternity float trips. I've seen a lot of
Speaker 20
19:37
things happen with canoes. You may be one of the ones
Speaker 47
19:40
of fraternity that's barred from coming to Wild Bills. What fraternity is that, sir? Just representative
Chair
Unverified
19:45
Lee, can you understand where I'm coming from? Just a suggestion, maybe you clarify what would cause that equipment failure. Just a suggestion. I'm not going
Representative Kelley Linck
Unverified
19:54
to hold you up. Sure. Thanks. I might look at, with your approval, we might look at amending that before it hits the Senate side then.
Chair
Unverified
20:05
Any other questions or comments from the committee? Seeing none, we do have Mr. Crow from the Arkansas Game and Fish who wishes to speak against the bill. So, Mr. Crow, you're recognized. Good
Speaker 55
20:26
morning. Thank you. I'm Jeff Crow, Chief of Enforcement at Arkansas Game and Fish. First off, my sincere apology to Representative Link. We were very late in bringing this
information to him wasn't intentional it just came to my attention early this morning I think to our voting law administrator yesterday and we will strive to do better in the future to make sure we don't catch him by surprise or any of the members of this community by surprise I will say that uh that that in principle that the that our enforcement division and agency has no problem with the legislation at all I will say also that when I go to Buffalo point I go to Wild Bill's that's where I patronize for many years since I was a
young child so and I can attest to the professionalism and the safety that they address every time with all their all my encounters with them our only concern is removing the term vessels from paddle craft from under the definition of the term vessels throughout the title 27 boating laws with that covers the methods of operations, equipment requirements, safety requirements is referred to vessels and we're concerned that by removing that language that it could in some perverted way
make people believe that children under the age of 12 would not have to wear their PFDs as they currently do under our state voting laws and we're also concerned that it may have people believe that they don't have to carry PFDs on board by that specific language And that's really the only issue that we have that we
Speaker 56
22:01
would like to see if we could work to correct and make that better. Okay. Would you be willing
Chair
Unverified
22:08
to take questions if there are any? Yes, sir. Any questions from the committee?
Seeing none. Thank you, Mr. Crowe. Thank you. We have nobody else signed up to speak either for or against the bill. So, Representative Link, I'm going to go
Representative Kelley Linck
Unverified
22:30
ahead and recognize you to close for your bill. Good questions and good comments. And I guess what I
would say is with the will of this committee, I'd be willing to – I don't think it would be very hard to amend this law to say that life jackets should be worn by those of whatever age that we do with vessels to also say that they should be done so in paddle sports and open.
It's just obviously something we didn't think about. I'd be glad to amend that and bring it back to this committee. or with the will of this committee, I'd be glad to amend it before it goes onto the House floor with an amendment
Chair
Unverified
23:04
on the House floor, whichever is best, whichever you feel comfortable with. Okay. Well, basically at this point, Representative Link, you know, if you want to just hold for right now, we don't have to vote on it. You can do the amendment, or if you feel comfortable and you want the committee to actually vote and trust that you're going to do what you say you're going to do, we can do that as well.
Representative Kelley Linck
Unverified
23:25
That is up to you as the sponsor of the bill. So it won't hurt me or anyone else to hold this up for two days and bring it back to this committee. If you feel
Chair
Unverified
23:43
more comfortable, I'd be fine with that. All right. We'll do that then. All right. Thank you, committee. Thank you. Okay. Let's see. House Resolution 1005. Is there anybody here that wishes to run that resolution? Seeing no one. House Resolution 106.
I don't see anybody here for that, so we have made it to the end of our agenda, and I think that's going to be it for today. Do we need anything else with a question? All right. We are going to go ahead and adjourn, but I would encourage you to go up to the rotunda. There's a group of high school students up there showing off some E-STEM projects, so So I would encourage you to take the time to go up there and chat with them and talk
with them about their projects. We will plan to have our committee on Friday as usual at 9 a.m. So with that said, committees.
Agenda
HR1004
HB1217
Documents
No documents posted.
Speakers
Chair
Unverified
Representative Karen S. Hopper Chair
Unverified
Speaker 2
Speaker 8
Representative Kelley Linck
Unverified
Speaker 20
Speaker 22
Speaker 23
Representative John Baine
Unverified
Representative Mary Broadaway
Unverified
Speaker 43
Speaker 47
Speaker 55
Speaker 56