Joint Budget Committee - Pre-Fiscal Session Budget Hearings

Expenses this is for memorials and monuments preservation is to increase it by fifty thousand dollars from thirty four thousand to eighty four thousand. And that's for ongoing monument maintenance no general revenue. The second request is in the second paragraph there it is for the help America vote act Hoffa it is for federal funds it's appropriation to spend federal funds of five point five million they're expecting a grant award ms chairman. Any questions is to be authorized to draft this letter into. Appropriation bill. Any questions I have a motion I have a motion and a second any discussion all in favor say aye opposed. Okay with the leg all it for Education to come forward. You're a alright. Pamphlet is on top of your big white book. Homepage two we're gonna be at. You identify yourself. Hello I'm joined under our for the Arkansas Arkansas legislative audit. These are the audit findings for fiscal year two thousand eighteen FOR the department of education. Kris three. Part of it in. And one school district. Paid professional fees to an employee. For services that the employee rendered that were. Not really his job. They were they were different. Services then the duties of the job. And the employee did not file the financial disclosures. And other documents with DFA in the secretary of state. These actions are inconsistent with the code DFA regulations and eighty policy. The second funding. Eighty E. did not monitor the work of one of their contractors which was department of Human Services in administering the Arkansas better chance program. DHS is supposed to monitor all the expenditures of the of the entities that are given grants under the better chance program. And they did not monitor all of them and they're supposed. And they say they're in. They say that the transformation is going to Move all this under eighty E. and so that problem should should go away. Third funding. Commissioner of education the deputy commissioner of education commute in state owned vehicles and when that happens there's post reimburse the state they're supposed to close to maintain mileage logs. And eighty E. is supposed to. Reporter the value of that that use that automobile. On their taxable income to the IRS. Well they didn't maintain usage logs they didn't reimburse the state. They didn't value the fringe benefits correctly. That's all the findings we had thank you very much chamber have any questions I'll be happy to answer questions. Any questions. Senator Stubblefield you're recognized thank you Mr chairman I just just one simple question the state has been reimbursed correctly. Not that I'm aware of. Why not. You have to ask DFA because our recommendation was that eighty eighty work with DFA to determine the appropriate amount of reimbursement. I would only if I return thank. Follows the in the record if I. we discuss this finding I looked into the documentation support behind the decision was made by the the director the deputy director in CFO. Quite frankly the use and piece of authorization not the current language in the law to authorize this in the past. We discussed it and the decision was made that we correct it going forward and not ask for reimbursement by these individuals as a matter of a committee equity is how we handle some of these others in the past. How long is the Paul how long is have those old documents been around. Build the warrant and I'm talking off the memory two years ago but the one that they were using I think was probably six or seven years old at the time they used to and we changed the law and the date of that policy prior to or after that documentation it been sent out. So in other words you just can eat this yes thank you Mr. Thank senator. represent Kevin off you're recognized. What do you do. You look at the yeti let yellow button lit up. thirty thing in. They go. Over to the right how many commissioners were involved. There were two the commission the deputy commissioner and that was only two findings that we found two of them thank you. Senate urban you're recognized. My questions for legislative audit on the professional fees I'm right here I'm sorry yes ma'am the professional fees that were paid to the employee could you describe what those professional fees for four and the amount of money and the time and. Was that try eighty E. paid them paid this corporation fifty three hundred dollars in a school district page one thousand dollars. And it was four. Teaching seminars. They provided as continuing education to public school dist public school teachers. Okay and this is an employee of the department of that yes ma'am. Okay. Okay so or. Well you know okay well this is part of this constitution you to fill that you won't set out. Okay. Well I don't think there's anything the rule that makes you sit there. I always thought they on a New York and we know at the I want to get your quick can I just. No more questions and just one more yet the teaching seminars to we have the nature of what those four or why was this person picked for that they have expertise in this area and just yes ma'am this person has written a book on the subject matter what is the subject. I don't recall but I'll be glad to get that okay thank you. Reviewed rye you dealers the Start with the department of education division of elementary and secondary education this morning you have on your desk a schedule that we prepared I'm gonna be referring to the schedule if that's okay with the committee. But I will also make page references along the way. Yes. You Mr chairman I don't remember see exhibits C.. So just to kind of walk you through the spreadsheet this has all the same information it's in your manual it just alphabetize is the seventy one line items that are in this appropriation if you look on the left you'll see the page numbers under call on a that's where you can find the narratives for all these appropriations. Then moving to the right we have the amount spent in fiscal year twenty nineteen the budgeted amount per fiscal year twenty in an authorized amount and then on the right you have all of the recommendations and requests the items that you're gonna be taking on today are the educate executive recommendation under call in AT T. that's the second to last column on your right. If you move to page four of the schedule. I want to direct your attention to the highlighted row this is the total public school find amount. You'll see that the request and the recommendation is fourth three billion eighty one million six hundred and forty three thousand seven hundred and forty dollars for fiscal year twenty one. This is a fifty one million dollar appropriation increase over fiscal year twenty. And I'll just remind you for and Tuesday for Wednesday that the governor has recommended that he he is recommending to provide forty million dollars in general revenue and anything above that in educational adequacy fund balances. Of that increase. So if it pleases committee I'll go over the eight line items with changes only. Beginning on page one we have the alternative learning environments. This appropriation is part of educational adequacy provides categorical funding to school districts for the establishment of alternative learning environments for students to function better outside of the traditional classroom environment they requesting a total of thirty point two million and this includes an increase of four hundred and seventy three thousand and this is just to get to accommodate for projected growth and participation. An executive recommendation provides for that request. Next we have ACT scan. That's in the row right beneath that absent mission is to provide a statewide data communication network that connects all public school systems within the state an education service cooperative perlite providing electronic access to administrative computing services and remote instructional services. And they're a questing a total of twenty three point three million dollars in fiscal year twenty one. And this just includes matching rate adjustments. Moving to page two. There are two appropriations that were actually recommended to be eliminated and they were eliminated last year but they had some outgoing expenses in fiscal year nineteen so those are not being spent on this year and they're not requested for fiscal year twenty one those are the criminal background checks and distress districts and both of those line items were absorbed into other items per your approval in fiscal year twenty. The next line item with changes is the English language learners. This appropriation is also part of adequacy as a categorical line it provides funding to schools to provide specially trained staff materials and training FOR teaches students who are identified as not being proficient in English language. Eighty is requesting seventeen point nine million dollars in fiscal year twenty one and this includes an increase of one point two million this is to provide for growth of one point nine one percent in public school districts and forty nine percent and open enrollment charter schools and that sounds like a huge percentage but they grew from an amount that was about three hundred to over over a thousand and so that's why it's forty nine percent. An executive recommendation provides for the agency's request for that increase. The enhance student achievement funding. This is formally known as the national school lunch line it provides additional funding to school districts annually based on the prior year eligibility of students for free or reduced price meals funding is set on a graduated scale based on population eligibility and it's codified they're requesting two hundred thirty five million dollars in fiscal year twenty one. This includes a two point eight million dollar increase and this is to accommodate for anticipated future growth. The executive recommendation provides for the agency request. On to the next page of the schedule the next screen or is office of education renewals owns. This provides for the operation of the education renewals owns which includes a compact between public schools co ops and institutions of higher education collaborating for the purpose of higher educational attainment. Eighty E. request one point three million dollars each year this includes a small increase for matching and executive recommendation provides for the request. Under professional development funding line this is also a categorical funding line adequacy it provides schools with funding for professional development of teachers an online professional development system called the Arkansas ideas program and then now established professional learning communities in the state. Eighty is requesting thirty three point one seven five million this includes a four million dollar increase FOR professional learning communities this is per the adequacy study recommendation and executive recommendation provide to the agency Rick. Katie yes Sir our professional learning communities is at some private out that. What is professional learning communities. Professional learning communities. It is it is trained and run by a company called solution tree but it's my understanding that they go into the schools and they teach teachers how to train one another. And we're paid a four million dollars more so they were already making some yes Sir the each year for the last three years they've established three cohorts of school districts in the program it's a multi year training program and it's my understanding from the department of ed that they're wanting to add more cohorts and they will use that funding to increase those numbers thank you. The state foundation funding line. This appropriation is for The all of the K. twelve finding paid each year to school districts funding is calculated by multiplying the average daily membership of each district times the adequacy established amount of seven thousand eighteen dollars per student per year for the year a total of two point one one billion is recommended for fiscal year twenty twenty one this includes an increase of forty two million dollars each year in funding to districts to help pay for teacher increases teacher retirement matching operation costs and growth this was part of the adequacy study recommendation executive recommendation provide to the agency request. Finally on page five we have teacher retirement matching. This one provides the employer matching cost of the educational services co ops vocational centers Arkansas Easter seals in the department of correction as required required by law they're requesting eleven point eight million. This includes an increase of six hundred seventy thousand dollars each year this is to accommodate for growth and rate increases the executive recommendation provides to the agency request and I'm happy to take any more questions. Okay you got some. Senator hammer is your question for the staff or the agency let me start with staff please we'll go ahead and the have the agency come on up to the table thank you. Where would your question thank you. Can you tell me on the columns. We've got the actual twenty eighteen twenty nineteen but I don't know what the budget was for twenty eight eighteen nineteen in the submission on here and then you go to the budget twenty nineteen twenty twenty and that column reflects what they're allowed to spend but we won't know the true expenditures till June thirtieth and my right on that yes Sir the budgeted amount is how much they can certify that they have funding to spend four for the year so even though they're appropriation may be X. amount if they don't have funding to show for that they can't budget for it so I would look at it as they have really dollars to put down. Under the budget amount for this year how would I know where they are in their expenditures to this point time because we're we're sitting here several months and up fiscal year but I'm I'm not seen what they're expenditures are up to this point to see if we can trim some off of it if they're not spending it. All I can get that information for you after this meeting okay I'd like to get that because in my way of thinking I want to know where they are in their expenditures up to this point before we approve something and and I wanna make sure there's no spending of the money between now the and just to spend that so I'd like to get that if you don't mind yes Sir and Mister chairman AS the agency question. Thank you. On that solution tree that the senator was asking about what do you do to monitor the results to know that for the amount of money that we're spending for actually getting something back because in listening to some of the people in my district I'm not sure the bang for the Buck is there and so what are the measure bills to determine that we ought to continue to do business with solution trees specially looking at other Issues in other states where they've been maybe they are new business anymore. Johnny key department education through that process we have a person dedicated this who is the director of special projects Overseas and works with that program works with all of the schools in the the all the cohort schools in the pilot. And also built into that is a periodic reporting from a third party vendor that That to the solution tree actually has to help pay for out of their contract but they're a third party group of. A gets call ahead northwest there's a lot of ed with west's in there so there's west that west that in and get you the but they issue a report that gives us information on where the schools are in their implementation process and the results that they're saying. We have my fact we have a number of schools that are progressing to the point that they are seeing What I would consider significant progress with their student populations including there's the path of the special populations in the minority populations special ed populations and seeing great current growth and achievement in our academics this program. And that's available to public schools charter schools all schools are who's available to it's it's available to all public and public charter statewide they submit and just recently they submitted their letters of intent for the next cohort so we usually have about a hundred schools that apply or submit letters of intent and then there's an application process of that comes after that they're selected we usually pick up because of funding it's around ten to twelve schools that are picked chosen for the pilot or thank you Mr thank. Senate. Senate bill you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair and good morning secretary key. You've said that solution Sri it seems that they are at I'd assessing. The results of their work. Is there an independent assessment of their work done by the department I'll we completely reliant on what they tell us now there is an assessment it's a third party and then we also monitor the results with based on the Based on our my school info based on the ACT aspire testing so yes ma'am we're talking what you're doing an objective evaluation of the effectiveness of we are the services offered by solution Chery yes up at some point would you share that with me from because they've been with us what three years now is this there you this we are entering the fourth year to add a fourth consortia with me where we were in those schools and where we are now yes ma'am you have nobody else might be interested but it will be interesting for me to see where we started where we are now so that we know that I'm monies and being well spent because the money continues to grow exponentially and so I'd like to see that all we as I looked at it we have nothing in here for off for distress cools distress districts. Tell me why there is nothing in that particular line item I have your moved it somewhere else or something but what what is going on because we have was it for districts that are in distress to five. That appropriation only only ever had fifty thousand dollars in it at the Max so we rode that into one of the other line items that we used to fund the support system that goes out to those districts so what what I find it in which which one it is the intent items with. Well we pay that out of the smart start smart step line item of for the office of coordinated service and support and that's the group that is led by Dr Hernandez that works with those districts center in. Level five support state takeover in some cases level for sure that number seventy on here. So what I'm looking at fifty. On page three the smart start March that program but there's no increase here. We did in with current funding we didn't ask for additional we we did need additional procreation there we were able to stop doing some things that we had been doing and start doing something that we believe work better. Is it showing. I believe it is yes so we're gonna have some school districts that are moving out of fiscal distress OR. They're gonna be moving out of distress they are progressing toward that is pine bluff for instance we had I believe all of the schools showed increases in their achievement and increases in growth not to the level that. That got them from an F. two D. but we have seen progress and we believe that the work that's going there will make that happen okay final question. In the last on it meeting. Dealing with education we found many school districts that were being. Literally robbed of by scammers are we doing anything to train our school districts as to better as to how they can better protect them sales in is there money in here that would for that training or is it going to be a part of the regular training because it was just it was amazing how many districts were losing money because of scammers and then the bank would have to make it up so it's not good for the banking business is not good for the school district so what will this mean where we with that up last October the research and technology division unit in the department created a cyber threat response task force working internally working with co ops using the technology coordinators that are already budgeted here in this budget at the co ops but to using and building the resources already are already have in place to be able to support school districts hopefully proactively before but also to help respond when they do get hit by some type of cyber scam all right thank you thank you Mr. Thank you senator. Representative Lundstrum you're recognized. Thank you. I'm. I was I went through your budget last night and I had a similar question to the senator Chesterfield and I see here national board professional teaching we have four million and then we have the professional development for another thirty three million and then we also have mentoring of teachers for. And other. So go. Teacher mentoring somewhere in here for. Another couple million. How many different professional development do we have for teachers how much money all together for professional development the the national board of professional teaching the bulk of that is the bonuses that go out directly to support teachers that have achieved that status so when they get that certification they qualify depending on of where they teach if it's a HIGHPOVERTY school or HIGHPOVERTY district then the bonuses adjusted upward dipping on him so that's where that there is a component there in the but it's a for development but it's to assist teachers that are pursuing that so that's really a narrow focus of the professional development funding of the bulk of that goes out on a per diem basis to schools directly or to the school district as part of this one the categorical funds that comes through the educational adequacy process so that that goes to schools in and they use that to help provide PD and then as Katie had mentioned the funding for the salute the PLC at work pilot comes out of that the work we work through solution tree what was the other one that that you asked about there was a mentoring program. Yeah the mentoring program is of we have for new teachers that because obviously your teacher coming in brand brand new out of college needs a lot more than just what they got when they finish their program so we work through the co ops on that so funds are just distributed through the co ops in the co ops work with their districts in their cooperation to support and maintain these mentoring programs okay. map follow up. Ma'am I'm changing gears on you had said something I believe was Katie mentioned that the teacher retirement fund had a and something that went to Easter seals. Went past yes pretty fast that's correct we already have a line item in this budget on Easter seals can you explain to me why there's two different line items. We've supercut that in here. The first ones on page one line actually five and then you mentioned Easter seals twenty referring to teacher retirement. So the Easter seals line item is what goes directly to the Easter seals the increase in the teacher retirement was to pay for that part of the Easter seals retirement so there to do were the Easter seals grant A is one that goes to the Easter seals but in the teacher retirement part we pay for that teacher does part of those teacher retirement that increase was because of the increase when the fourteen point two five to fourteen and a half. And to add to that represented the Easter seals line item is part of our maintenance of effort agreement with the federal government regarding special it funding so that goes to the Easter sales to support the educational services for those students that have the most severe in the right I I look that one up but I was trying to figure out what teacher retirement that for the teachers that are teaching in the east right. A bill FOR to teach retirement and under statute were responsible for making those contributions to the retirement system I have more questions well as somebody else get the queue and I'll get back in. All right. Reserve cabin off you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair over here to the right I can't I can't see you for Representative Cozart. I just have really two quick questions the increase in teacher salary where is it reflected in this. Okay so the the there are two components of that you have this sixty million dollars set aside that's not in here that was us set aside from the educational adequacy fund and we have about forty seven million dollars left in that I think we spend around thirteen million that has been distributed to schools this year so the. The adequacy recommendation was a two percent increase in the teacher salary line item in the matrix and that's gonna be reflected in of the the big money the big line items the findings foundation funding number seventy three. Yes state foundation funding okay. Thank you the other question I have is on the positive youth development what are we actually funding with that what are we doing with that there has been no funding that is appropriation only so we have no money it's going to that so we're not doing any of those programs no ma'am there there has never been any funding allocated for that information do we know why. Will the senator that sponsor that legislation didn't do a very good job at the time of the of of getting that funded that was me so Images has not it just has not been funded and is it something that we need to look at that needs to be funded or is it a program that's not going to be used or. We are center that right always open conversations about that and I know other members in the. Of the last few years have asked about that and if the question about are there programs we're always looking to see if there are programs that do not need to be continued that could be a possibility for a funding other program so yes that's conversation we could have thank you. Represent Dotson you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair Click on page one of the the budget down there line eighty four Yes it's line seventeen the better chance program that. Looks like in the last year a hundred twelve million was spent out of that the actual spend. What happens to the. The we've put a hundred fourteen million there which is actual funding if I'm understanding correctly what happened to the remainder of that does that roll over from year to year yes the rolls over they can only be used for. For those programs so sometimes the extra funds get used for enhancements within the program one of the folks is from the governor over the last couple years has been increasing the quality of the programs and I know ms Williams a director there when it was at DHS I was very involved in and we're going to maintain that now the A. B. C. as part of the department of education we're gonna continue to look at ways to increase the quality of those programs so I mean this is something we hear a lot of times that the student is not fully funded but it is the reason why the money's not all being spent that we've allocated toward it and we always continuously are asking for more money for that line item when it doesn't appear that additional is needed if it's not being used well part of this no part of that line item the bulk of it goes out to the programs but there is there are some. A small fraction of that that goes for support administrative costs and that sort of thing so but we we also have a lot of flux in the number so within a fiscal year you may have programs at the close of programs that producer number slots because they don't need him anymore and the division worked very hard to reallocate. But there's there's just like time and so sometimes there are funds that don't get expended because of that fluctuation in the number of seats that are out there on state so all the available funding no for the seats there being requested is being used at the moment yes okay thank you. Of seat forty two Representative della Rosa that you represent of all you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair I have a couple questions if that's okay first I want to ask about the minimum wage increase has our schools reached out and towed you exactly what it's going to do to their bottom line and is that reflected anywhere in here or they're going to need the increase okay the. We have heard. Some more things as I'm sure you all heard from districts about the impact the minimum wage increases having so we've been working hard to try to get a number because we we don't know if that impact this five hundred thousand five million or fifty million. so we've been working through the co ops to get that information from the schools and there if they have a deadline of next week the thirteenth to get that information to us so that then we can update the governor on what we're getting because it it it affects different schools in different ways. Because these are primarily your classified employees and the salary schedules are very different from district to district so there may be some that have more minimum wage employees in there than others and were really working hard to try to get a bottom line that we can answer that question better before the session so it's not reflected in here and there's nothing reflected in here this this simply reflects a continuation of the appropriation requests from the regular session plus the increases that Katie one over based on increase services increased accounts and I wanna make sure that I understand the sixty million is also not reflected in any way it is not in this because it was a set aside the set aside fund dedicated over the four year period of time for districts to access to all to help offset the decrease teacher salary can I have another question Mr chair. Ma'am so the Arkansas leadership academy principal master principles can you tell me a little bit about that program because over here I notice on page three they have a master principal bonus and it went up also so I'm wondering to those to correlate together. They do the leadership academy master principal program is that's the actual operations of the leadership academy in the work they do and then the bonus is as it as it as it states it goes to those who have completed and achieve the master principal designation okay and how many principles that we have that goes through that program and how many of them finish in a year. Or is it that the grammar is it I believe it is a three year. It's a three year program we have and we get to the numbers I don't have those with me today but and always have a a larger number that starts than Phoenician actually there's of pretty small number of principles that move on to achieve that. A so we're paying for them to go through it and then we're giving them a bonus at the end when they finish if they yes thank you Mr chair. Thank you a great tells me that seven bonuses should be paid this year seven principles energy are getting the boss. Senator bond you're recognized. I love this part. All right thank you Mr chairman do we have a goal where we're trying that we are trying to reach for teacher pay do we have a set goal is a state for we're we're trying to get our teacher pay average to. We. We don't have a goal on average but the the the emphasis that the governor put on was lifting that starting salaries so this is the second year this budget reflects a continuation of of his priority to lift the minimum teacher salary in the state so that that's the emphasis currently do you know where we rank in the S. R. E. B. right now in teacher salary. in the S. R. A. B. the I believe in the last report we were. Seventy nine depending on which metric could look that on average I have in in surrounding we were I believe for the surrounding states were three or four. Wow. As the leader of the new education or the education overlord or whatever why are we why wouldn't that be a goal for Arkansas we're demanding world class results from our teachers rights everybody is right why don't we set the goal is a state that we're gonna leave the region the S. R. E. B. the surrounding states and teacher pay. Well that is a goal that would be one of the goals that we could set it's a goal that I think. And in one looking at the priorities the governor said we need to make a stand that are starting teachers need more money that was a that was a first step this cycle is a continuation of that obviously if the governor and and we could make that a priority that's something that we would discuss going into the next session the state so let's look at educational adequacy the fund that we're using to pull back some of the general revenue so the carry forward an education adequacy is those two hundred eighty six million carry forward for FY nineteen. I believe that's correct that sounds right and so back in twenty thirteen that carry forward was only eleven million dollars and. Commissioner gives you know it is has always chapter me that we established this fund. with the tax vote under the how can be administration and we've built up and built up over time and we have an opportunity with the fund to set some priorities that could set us apart. and we haven't done it so it appears to me that we have the money to make some bold goals and to go after some ball goals what why are we hoarding two hundred eighty six million dollars in adequacy fund. I wouldn't say that would characterize it as hoarding because in the years since twenty fourteen what we have seen is There were several years that the twenty five milieu R. T. and the valuations around the state or flat and so we were making projections based on flat you are T. collections. And now we keep trying to address that but the collections keep going up it's a a a. Strong economy we're seeing that so that's why you've seen the growth of this fine we try to maintain in the public school fund between sixteen eighty million balance there and then as this is continued to grow we've been able to back off on the G. R. that goes into it. Which you know it's it I believe puts us in a good position moving forward in case there is any economic setbacks anything that comes forward that you we look at this as a way to make sure we don't. I see a the that we don't commission anyway the the funding that we can maintain that adequacy commitment hi I'm not gonna press on that I just want everybody to take note of the amount and how it is grown we have a huge teacher pay equity issue across the state you agree with that we do we did a study BLR did a study back in eighteen which you know what what we do in this in the state as we do studies and then the legislature never read them and so including may I take credit for that we asked superintendents rank the teacher recruitment issues facing your district where where is the number one most significant barrier to teacher recruitment one was difficulty offering competitive salaries a hundred twenty seven superintendents and then on the retention question what's the most difficult thing about retaining difficulty in offering competitive salaries so what are we doing to to help our rural districts particularly have equity in teacher pay so they can keep their great teachers in their districts and they won't go to other places. So two things and one is one I'll go back to the increase the minimum teacher salary that did not increase between two thousand nine and two thousand fifteen This state at twenty nine thousand I believe is twenty nine to forty four of that created a significant disadvantage over that period of five to six years especially for rural districts there was nothing that compel them to to increase US salaries so that so there was no connected increase to the foundation funding By moving that minimum teacher salary up and then making sure that there is the proper adjustment in the. In the matrix then that is going to. Help with the competition help alleviate some of that because I think in that same report use you solve the the disparity growing over that period of years because I looked at that report last night and it's starting to I think that. That delta starting to get smaller again. that we've done is Dr Pfeffer. Put together a great plan that we're working with districts to try to identify how they can create opportunities within their district four teacher leaders to then take on more responsibilities and use current funds are available such as ESA funding to enhance. The salaries in those rural districts so we've had. Member districts that have expressed interest and are working with us to try to create this type of of Tiered opportunity structure within so that you have Lee teachers taking on more doing more with maybe the younger teachers but building up the capacity to have a higher salary structure what we still have districts in the state that you can work thirty years and not get on to the teacher pay schedule and certain other districts correct. Well I would I don't know how for a generalized it but we do know that there is a distinct difference between some of the northwest Arkansas and larger districts. Salary schedules and the smaller districts our schedules we fully fund now the high priority district incentive bonus. We find yes that's funded it is fully funded in the past we haven't paid the full bonuses. Yeah I think it's pro rated I thank you have because of the number of of eligibles it does get pro rated so right now under this program how property district incentive bonus which includes places like Augusta marked tree Stephens two rivers are oral western yell all these places used to those wrong less than eighteen there's a bonus there's a five thousand dollar bonus available than four than three and in the past we've only paid we've never paid the full five thousand that I can say. Why are why are we doing that to help these rural districts want we fully funding that when we have two hundred eighty six million dollars. That's something we could look at senator why don't why don't we do it now. This balanced budget reflects what was passed and agreed to in the the regular session and obviously the there is They're committee has opportunity to review that and provide other recommendations. Thank you I think our our purpose here is to make sure we maintain what we agreed to in the regular session your job as the education overlord that is to and I say that jokingly I I appreciate what many of a a lot of things with the department does I don't want to get too snarky but is to make sure all the state and all our teachers that we have quality teachers all over the state right and so this pay equity issue is repealed and it's very important for for all our kids and I think it's something with this huge balance of this legislature our address is immediately as possible lastly and then I'll be quite as teacher recruitment from a loan forgiveness perspective and and getting our new teachers three school to replace I retiring teachers we still do have a teacher recruitment problem that we. We do but it's been minimized in recent years we are seeing a growing number of of people in the at prep programs traditional and nontraditional programs we bottomed out a few years ago and and over the last two years we've seen considerable increases we work closely with are higher education institutions and right now we are working with the division of higher ed doctor Markham division of curry had to create a pathway where that one to minimize the impact we're what's the project shortage and I'm trying to get out I I don't know the projected shortage because it wasn't in a house on the other. Doctor Dr Martin has projections based on work for stated that we have and it is in the. Believe it is in the thousands if you projected over a ten year period and then we also have the issue of those who retiring you know so the number of teachers AT retire or it's out of balance with the number of teachers we have company and so it's continue struggle to make sure we're catching up but we're getting better the same study about the teacher retention and teacher pay issues included a discussion this is from BLR of recruitment and retention incentives and we have this merry add of loan forgiveness you know ten different programs different legislators of past summer funded summer not funded but our own BLR tells us that for many of the programs the targeted teacher shortage areas the geographical location and subject areas change from year to year making it difficult for teachers in their employees to consistently rely on incentives allow that some that's loan forgiveness I would implore the department of that going into the next session where I will not be here to somehow streamline loan forgiveness these incentive bonuses and have the programs understandable and consistent over a four year period we have the money to do it and we're just not doing it thank you Mr chairman thanks for your patience. Senate OC represent a Boyd you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair I want to go back to professional learning communities for just a minute Unfortunately I'm not on education so I don't get to know all I know is there were two implemented in Fort Smith and both of those objectively increase the letter grade after implementation and I can't hear enough good things from the principles on how well that's going so I guess the question is since I only have this Fort Smith perspective if any schools not seen objective increases or have they gone backwards. Yes so it it looks different at each school in in the cohort and I'll give you the sample so the data that we got from I believe is Monticello. While they weren't seeing the direct impact with the students in that particular school what they reported in what the data showed that those students that went from I believe it's from middle school to high school actually performed better when they got to high school so I I think we are seeing improvements in different ways as matter of fact I'm proud to to save Bahman elementary one of the force miss schools was recognized as a ma is being recognized as a model PLC school I think one of maybe just five in the whole state of Arkansas so yes we do they are not always as dramatic Of improvements but we do see steady consistent promotes and under our S. a plan that's what we're asking it's not expecting that drastic improvement anymore it's a continuous improvement each year getting better showing the students are are growing in achieving higher levels so one follow up Mr A so I guess the question I have again I don't have benefit been on education and knowing all of the discussions that happen there knowing that work force reading this is such an important component of economic development and and making sure that we we build up our Kansans for good jobs in the future are we implementing it fast enough thank appeal cities across the state fast enough room we investing enough I guess is my question so what we have seen is that there are some districts that because they have seen the impact for Smith being one of those that because they saw the impact it was having at the cohort schools they have actively redirected some of their funding the PD finding that they get federal funds that they get to expand that within their districts force miss not the only district we have other districts that are doing the same thing so the idea of when the the legislators that. helped create to create this Back for five years ago the concept of it the concept was that at some point time the state would be at a place where we could wean off of a contractor. And then have the things in place that where we could continue at scale not you'll go from a pilot to a scale across the state and that's what we're working on now trying to develop what the scale lookalike and in some districts it's for advancing more rapidly than others but yes that that is the ultimate goal is that we have this these concepts embedded across all districts. the Representative. Senator Hendren you're recognized. I thank you Mr chairman so yeah I I I told senator bond he may be pushed my button which I really want to do today. But having spent fifteen years on a school board I know the answer some of these questions but I think it's important we ask him so who says the salaries at the schools the state board of what the legislature. Education of the school board. They set their local salary schedules yes okay so if the if a if if the desire is to race overall teachers pay and we put another fifty million dollars in the matrix to do that who decides where those dollars go. Local school districts so in other words we can put fifty million dollars in there and say we're going to raise teachers' pay but if a school district decides to hire three more football coaches there's nothing we can do about it I'd be correct it's the foundation funding is unrestricted final wire we focusing on the state's failure to raise teacher pay when the one to make the decisions are down here answering the questions. We we encourage our local school boards to consider all of sayings when they make their decisions so and again I spent fifteen years and I'm I I appreciate the work or school board members but one of the things we continue to get pressure to raise teacher salaries that I continue to ask for somebody explain to me is why we can send the same amount of revenue to sue to similar school districts I know their second economy of scale there's other factors but when we do our best equalize funding and when we find to districts or similar economically demographically but yet one pays our teachers eight thousand dollars more than the other I think that that's a question that bears we have a responsible to get the answer to and I've nobody's giving it to us yet. And who would we go to to get the answer that question. It is an ongoing song going evaluation that that we are doing as well but we don't have an answer that I can give you today thank. Thank you senator Representative Eubanks you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair. Secretary key my question has to do with salaries as well I know the sixty million dollars was to help raise beginning salaries for teachers and I think most people predominantly think that those districts are are rule and poor and I think most of them are but are there any. Urban districts. That are also going to be receiving some of those funds yes little rock is received some of those funds Was three ACT we can get exactly but I do know. Of the little rock receive funds there it it really depends on where their salary schedule. red meat was at the beginning of the school year. Thank you. Thank you senator Elliott you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair at the risk of getting into this conversation Between my two colleagues up but I would just point out you know I I I was and I taught school for thirty eight years and and I've been in the legislature for a long time and so that kind of gave me a perspective really to on both sides of what's happening legislative teacher salaries. I think the biggest problem we have we keep on trying to do things in a vacuum or do things that a disjointed because we've never of decided exactly what is the big vision and then within that state find things as they should be as a system. So. The problem with the teacher salary it's sellers way we do it now if we decided we're going to have equitable salaries there immediately going to be compromise although we ought to do this just the same they're immediately going to be compromised because we Due to if we put it in the matrix but there's nothing that requires us to put it in the matrix. We can fund the matrix. And equity can be something that we find outside of the matrix so it really doesn't hold that we will allow the superintendent's whoever to spend money however they want to and we don't have any control and if I miss superintendent. And. I've got all these things the fund. There is a real good possibility if I think I can get by with funding something else in my budget and not try to reach equity with teacher salaries that they're going to do that I'm not defending them I'm just saying it is something starts here with us. That if we want to have equity across the board is not going to be a matter of just dropping some money in that matrix and I think it's way past time for us to think differently about how we are funding salaries of A is also problematic if we just assume that we're going to you can pay we know the evidence of this you can pay somebody a huge huge salary and there are still places are not going to go in this state is not the case that Mister Keith don't we see that we do see that yes and that's what I mean that we're doing things disjointed none of our systems have connective tissue and that's something I've just I've not one on this point with my colleagues with anybody else but if we think we can fund education and everything's going to be okay without taking a look at housing without taking a look with economic development what are you all doing and oral and sit down together and say what do we all have to do together because this thing will not work without our having connective tissue throughout all of our systems that we have in government because as it turns out we we were paid twenty five thousand dollars for somebody for somebody to go to a district to be a superintendent in the what we call the high priority districts I rather than asking the question of why are they a high priority why and start addressing it from that standpoint we wanna overlay and say we're throwing money at a twenty five thousand dollars and we did it and it got nothing because we are not addressing systemic issues. And people keep coming to the Education Committee forced to address those issues this is nuts we know this won't work and it is hard hard work to make the system work together I get that. But we ought to know by now we can put money here of money there and it's not going to be the issue not going to solve the issue so. I think both my colleagues have a point but I think we all lead Arkansas down and we all spend money on wisely until we try to grab something and do these it and work at these things together and when represented Cavenaugh ask about the positive youth program we know all positive believe this is that's why it's got the word positive in it I was a Democrat that work with Republican for us to get this done got a great bipartisan idea and. We can't get money to fund. I will throw some cute as we say Collins we put some more money in there to say well we're going to do this we're going to do that and nothing is could most things are not connected to other things and I don't know if I'm making sense to you or not but if you want this to make better sense to you think about your body as a system and you've got. All kind of parts in that system the work if they're not all working for example a friend of mine always talked about this in terms of well if you're going to fund something would you but which one is going to fund you gonna find your heart or your lungs when the county needed fund them both and make sure they work that's where we are now as far as I see it and I have a specific question. Because this is. I know it's not enough that is not enough to blame the legislature is not enough to blame school boards is not enough to blame teachers is not enough to blame anybody because we simple are working together here's my big question that I'm trying to understand we worked on this an adequate and I still and I was there. How are we funding. A catastrophic. The US constructing these in special ed exactly how has that come down and do we have the funding to do we need we need to do what we hearing from school districts and superintendents about that. So we are nearing the deadline for schools to submit the the cost for the under of the the new rules that will change so that we don't know at this point we we feel confident that give this first year we will get a good picture of of how the changes are impacting the districts but we don't have the data to tell you right now you know if the districts are under funded over funded we we just don't have that it'll be I think April first when that to when those applications have to come in and it's a reimbursement so yeah this isn't prospective funding that they get for next year it reflects expenses that they've had in the previous year yeah and so it's so what I'm hearing from time to pretend it's is the reimbursement part so how does that work in terms of their supposed to have the money to spend and then it gets reimbursed is that an issue for and of the districts. It shouldn't be now part of the rules changes to applications for catastrophic we moved it up a month in order to for those that do have the hot catastrophic needs this special time that into this we can turn around get the money out to in quicker this is it is on reimbursement they would have to have the money from other sources from general from general funds or somewhere to pay for that fund first but we are working to get into the quicker it if you have if the only districts that we know that are having cash flow issues are ones that are already in fiscal distress and FOR reasons. Other than this so we're not aware of any districts are having cash flow issues and I think that might be what you're asking do they have the money up front yeah that's exactly what I'm asking yeah we were not aware of any other than districts are an academic distress okay and lastly would bring up this is stress that's my last question has to do with when we send support out to the school districts to help them. Is do we have the funding and the people to be able to send people out to help them and to remain there and do all the things we need they need to do over a sustained period. that's a great question senator and and we've actually had to deal with that type of situation with. Where we had to have members of Greg's finance team on site we had to run payroll we had to cut checks for bills But that's not optimal. We the department does not need to be in the business of doing that function of a school so trying to build the capacity that's what we've been focused on in in those extreme circumstances and it's difficult because it's the same challenge we have is you have alluded to with teachers of their it is difficult to get people with that pass the to stay in a very small district like girl that's already struggling and has been for a number of years it's a challenge we so far we've been able to place our team members or. Team members from the office coordinates support service to make that happen but if we had more districts in office say we had from now five state supervision districts to any more than that I don't think I could answer that question positively we would not have the staff to do that and Mr chair up well and FOR secretary key on dissent as get this because I'm going to make a proposal for For the future is that I would like to. No if you will work with legislators and others around the state to do something kind of like we're doing with the funding formula like we created a prototype school to find that five hundred. If you would entertain the idea of getting together with some of us to create a. A prototype. Town prototypes city. In which a school district could function and to what all of that we could kind of use as something to inform. What funding we actually need in the city or the town as opposed to dump and everything into the education budget. Like what would a prototype town area look like an order for schools to be successful as opposed to asking them to be successful out on some island somewhere to inform us. It's an intriguing it's an intriguing thought and I certainly would be willing to discuss what that looks like and what resources or information you would need from us on okay and I would invite our colleagues to the team please think about participating in something like that otherwise we're just going to keep having this conversation over and over and over again thank you Mr chair thank senator if I may go back to your your concerning voiced about the systems of systemic right measures one of the things that is has off forgotten his the educational excellence trust fund from nineteen ninety one and. That. That process remained dormant or was left well we've always done it this way so we don't want to change anything. Actually you all change that formula so. That's one thing senator bond senator Hendren that I should have mentioned earlier is that is the mechanism that helps drive those local decisions so there there is a process there The impact of the changes that you pass in twenty nineteen it will be a few years before we can really give you a picture of how that's impacted but that that is something that I didn't wanna leave here today without refreshing remember alright thank you thank you Mr. Thank you senator. I will go to Senator hammer that you back over there you're recognized thank you Mr chair. Awhile ago question was asked about line seventeen for the better chance program in that that money is allowed to carry forward and it accumulates did understand that correctly. That's correct all right how many the other categories that are listed on the budget spreadsheet are able to do the same thing. All of them well the public school fund as a whole. I'm I don't know if there's any other specific line items. So the but let me say this because you mention of this concern you had I will say there was at one time a practice where unspent funds at the end of the fiscal year got. Stashed somewhere in the form of grants or whatever because there wasn't a carry over provision in those we have stopped that practice. so if. I don't know if that's where you're headed but I know you mentioned that earlier and I wanted to address that okay and then the the pain of the ACT test. Just to refresh my memory educate music come out a line fifteen. Our words that come out of work we pay for the AC TSR settlement assessment costs come out of the assessment and it says in of course testing we don't have an of course testing anymore but that is the assessment line on which the ACT aspire in the state administered ACT for juniors comes out of some of the teachers that I talked to that do that our little frustrated because there's no accountability for the kids that were paying for as far as a come back over and over and over again there's so I wonder what what efforts have been done by the department to look into that to see about possible changes because cordon some them there's you know there's no appreciation for the value of the fact that we're paying for it and this seems to be the abuse of take in is it is increasing based on feedback I'm getting so have you you look today there got me that. I have not heard any of that type of feedback this line item pays for one time of year there are other programs that that help. For eligible students that can take it another bill a second time I think this the and then there fee waivers from the ace from ACT itself that students that are eligible I can access those fee waivers but hi I'm not aware of any feedback that there are any of any abuse okay taking the test too many times and Mister chairman of we haven't talked about the last two pages of the hand that we gonna deal with this then we've got three out of vote on this the public school fund what we're going to vote on that they will take up the next to alright thank you. Represented wouldn't. You're recognized thank you Mr chair let me let me state before I start I appreciate your forthrightness in answering the question. Also a chaired the school finance commission of for the what I call the first lake view case. And head the senator bond head eight democratic governor and his education director not altered the formula in an improper manner we wouldn't be faced with some of these problems were faced with today. But let me say. We are never going to some of. The funding problem. Of education. As long as we have the property tax involved is just you can do you can't reach equity and dition to that the constitution clearly states it's the state's responsibility to provide an adequate education. Now this is the next statement on mon monkeys heresy but we've got to any districts. Tremendous two men. But I realize politically what that leads to. But we we we've also got to realize that we're we're we're utilizing fifty to fifty five percent of our income to educate our children. And it's a drastic difference between Houston taxes it has a ten million people in Arkansas that has three million people but the taxable buddies they were using in the property tax there's no way even though we provide a minimum of twenty fan of frying Dale the run other districts that have a tremendous property that you can go all above that and this is one you have the in equity in the rule there is. Is because they they fall far short of property values the mine mine mine mine recommendation would be that we let the cities and counties. Have the property tax to operate in to use for roads streets law enforcement in that time thing and that we get that the design that we have our the first for the revision. committee at the time that we did that we could have the we could have a soon the total responsibility for a little less than two cents in the sales tax. But you know it is and then you've got to deal with this thing of the of the teacher salaries relative to the school board. Here again realizes that this heresy because that's there that's what that's their plan I mean it and but but the thing about it is I go back to senator Elliott. We we've got to do something else the box. To be able to raise the quality of education for our young people and you talk about the future of economic development. In our state is directly tied to that directly time to education of our young people were there being college or career. Let me ask you a few questions if I may Mister chairman. This mentors program that utilized by the co ops in your you all funded or we monitoring that how do we know how many teachers or are being mentor and do we are we sure that the money is going for that purpose yes Sir this is a the answers your question but it's really a broader topic in that will over the last two years we have changed our contracting procedures we've changed the the grants we've changed our contracts so that there are clear metrics in those contracts so yes Sir we we can tell you how many teachers are served in and how much money is spent each call up for this and if you'd like to get that we can get that for you can you tell me the cost per student of the for professional development and the solution jury. Up we could calculated I don't have that now because each of those schools in the pilot are you got some larger schools you got smaller school so we would have a documented fielding calls per student from across across the board. In the course is sixty million dollars that we approved last session for the men for the minimum salary is it does taking care of where we don't we're not facing a problem there no Sir that sixty million dollars a set aside there's forty seven million left that we spent thirteen then if what you spent last year that well current fiscal year that's Walker Mr yes Sir. Now what what what I'm hearing relative to some of the professional training from some of our educators is that the person nail that maybe solution jury is using are not necessarily qualified or this brief stated are not necessarily professional in their approach to the tempting to teach the professional development have you all heard any of then represented the only issue that we run into and we have clearly addressed that with them is with respect to literacy we We've had a couple of just a couple of situations where a solution tree coach has come and has not been on board with Arkansas with the science of reading. And comments that were made in those coaching sessions are training sessions that may have been less than positive about the science of reading we have addressed those clearly and have have asked that to that the either. Those individuals not be placed or that if they're gonna be place I need to focus on things other than the for their philosophical difference with the policy Arkansas has that's that's the only thing and I've made it clear to my team that that is unacceptable for them to come in Arkansas and disparage the work that we're doing I was signed to read. Right. One more question back to my comments at the beginning. Do you see the property taxes a hindrance of the amount it I know how much funding it gives you see that is a hindrance as it relates to the evaluation from county can. Representative I think a property backs of property tax base system is always going to have inherent inequities. I'm not saying that that can't be overcome in part of our solution out of the lake view and and part of the creation of the foundation funding of was to have. The state make up that difference by now what we get into is where the court said that districts can go over and above and that's what happens a lot of times where you have districts that are going over and above either by passing a dedicated millage for additional maintenance and operation that they can use to pay teachers higher salaries we we have some districts Representative that few very few but there are some that are less than five meals over the twenty five. It's so. You know it's hard to really say that it's a property taxation issue when the local if if local taxpayers. Don't vote you know to increase anything of a so I think what you all deal with what we deal with is that definition of adequacy. That's defined what is this is Senator. You senator Senate chair check one of you I thank you senator Chesterfield you haven't said anything I shouldn't even of amend your name senator but You know don't talk about the floor no she's just okay we were taught that adequacy is being that minimum amount you know so that is the responsibility of the state but some of the disparities that we're talking about our because their districts who have chosen to go above and beyond so but again you're you're right there in heretic inequities in a property tax base system would that the all had been successful. Decades ago we might have been have be having different conversations that be true thank you now that would be true A Mister chairman is a relinquish the floor I wish us senator Hendren would use other examples and football coaches as we get rolled up and down the road thank you. Thank you Representative center flowers we have heard from you yet you're recognized. Thank you. Good morning commissioner good morning. I have a meeting with the all on my districts that are in state take over so I won't go into a whole bunch of specifics about that look forward to the meeting. But I do want to ask generally about general facilities funding on that second page. Line forty. Is that the division of transportation and facilities money that eight million. No ma'am okay that that is so when the old programs great yeah that's that's one of the old programs that when I say all programs old fist of facilities assistance programs that now roles in to the bigger facilities partnership fund. So it comes out to the public school fund it rolls into the facilities fund but in that the division of the transportation and facility but they're the ones that handle it or handle that those funds yes ma'am okay so where. Our is. Any item on this budget for the division of transportation and facility no not on this budget no ma'am which when does and where does that come up. A in your department it is but that is not part of what the legislatures determined to be the big six the tower view in the pre budget hearings fiscal session. It's something that could be that I think you're certainly welcome to review and yell do review those in a wreck and it during the session but not during the precession budget hearings well I think it's important to consider it along with these other items to because the it talking about. Maintenance of facilities of existing school building. And I wanted to know more about what's being done to monitor and to be have some accountability from the school districts and from your department and in terms of the school districts keeping the buildings of. Adequately repaired and maintained and safe and dry for the students yes ma'am I know our facilities division has inspectors that go out and they. Are on a schedule of routine visits to the districts and we can get that information for you of of what that schedule looks like how that the staffing and all those things we get that for you well I'd like to know that it as well of the ballot you know I think I heard you mention there was some of assistance that you all do in terms of helping these districts that are and take over thank you said something about you literally have to go make the pay roll and that kind of thing but I'm also concerned about these buildings in the school districts that have been abandoned and are just sitting there some of which have Hey at new repairs brand new repairs just a year or months before the closure in the school district of the school buildings and. I've talked to you about it before years ago. In my district we have buildings that are just sitten up. Just riding. And then we have inventory inside these buildings which include historical. Items. That are just left for waste. And there is a state statute that says that those school districts and because the. The education department what you are in charge of. You're supposed to preserve and maintain those I items in those artifacts. What if what if anything in your budget helps to do that are is that. Just left to that log local school district in what do you all doing about it yes ma'am. Well since. That day that you and I traveled to. tall timer and saw what that situation was with there's no line item in the budget but it's just part of what the office of coordinated support service that works with these districts of that they are working with superintendents to identify within there are facilities that are no longer needed to clear those out and in the case of at least. That trick or campus we've been working with the city of all time or try to transfer that to them for pine bluff there were a number of buildings in the inventory that were no longer used had it for decades some of them and we've been working methodically to try to liquidate those buildings and get them sold in and get them back into productive use but that's something that we work with the district's more closely now since you've created are set you back to awareness two US. Well I'd like to also suggests though I mean you have the joint use agreements that program I haven't heard anything about it I guess that's not in this budget either it is or. You know it in these particular areas that you just mentioned I think it would be most helpful. to have some type of partnership with those school districts in these abandoned buildings and the cities that they are situated the and to help you. To help other Individuals that. Are within the community to do a lot of things I mean you have a joint use as opposed to be about health concerns and I don't see enough Places to go for exercise for the neighborhoods to tackle obesity and to give kids something to do I mean some of these buildings have gymnasiums in all these kids have a no where to go play of the sports indoor sports I don't understand why that isn't being pursued and I don't necessarily fall. Your division your department. But I think you all need to do more to encourage and even introduce the thought to these different school districts in the cities. When they walked taken upon them sales but have some kind of conversation with them. Up to try to entice them to take that. As as a measure to help the whole community. I thank you miss me a lot of improvement not only with the children in the schools but the families that are around the school. Yes ma'am agree with that and we will redouble our efforts on that the line item for the joint use agreements we've we fully grant that out every year it's just not always concentrated there is a five hundred thousand dollars line item there and it goes all of the state pending on the the grant applications but we will of look to see if there is additional targeting of certain areas that could benefit by this and I'll ask the team to take a look at that. Thank you senator. Representative Scott will stop just a minute represented Scottish brought to my attention that we have the new Representative elect missed your spring if you'll stand up she has a taken the place of the late John Walker will make her feel. For the work with you. All right. You've been the delay for you to order it would you introduced earlier in the. Would you be worn for a little while yeah. Yes. All right let me see who else had had a chance. By senator Irvin. Thank you hi Michael the second question and I I'll work with you through the veterinary slots in those kinds of things and I I texted you I thank god I'd like to continue to work with you guys on not figure that out my question is on the audit finding and that and of the professional development not contract so and looking at this it it do you have or just part of the bed at because this was billed to the department of education through one of the school districts so this wasn't through a co op so I'm just curious as to hate did is there an approval mechanism there because when you look at this and the amount of money that was spent for what the purpose of it was which is fine but the amount of money it was pretty I was a lot minute thank at. You know if it's just and and is there any account team after the fact to see if this actually Kurds because the invoice says up to four hours was for a workshop at a pretty large price which is about twelve hundred seventy five dollars per hour that we paid for a workshop. So that's up to four hours and then there was up to four hours of follow up and then up to five hours of coaching implementation coaching so even if you look at thirteen hours of the contract that still three hundred eighty dollars per hour which is a lot of money right so do we know is there do you all do any accounting follow up to see a if this is an appropriate expenditure and that it falls in line with what we pay for professional development normally. And if the level of expertise is there too I guess warrant that amount of money for three hundred dollars I mean that's being generous at all thirteen hours of the contract were used that we three hundred eighty dollars our. That's a lot of money and I don't I don't know many that make that much per hour so do you do any type of follow up to see a if all thirteen hours were accounted for and used or how much was and. Is and does it does it I guess Rise to that level of yes this is something that we feel like this is an appropriate expenditure. Yes that is so I guess the first thing I'll take on that is that there are. If someone build under the name of a of their company. There's not necessarily going to be a direct link to say oh that's. So and so a okay means that even in this case when it was Parker consulting I don't think anybody on our team would have automatically thought that it was Mister Parker that worked for us there are a lot of consulting companies out there that do this type of work And some of them are larger some of our small. That is not however I will say that it's a good fee I will say it's not a typical of the fees that get paid for this type in and the primary focus they're of this organization and the expertise here was was culture inclusive inclusiveness those types of things so that that's why it was. that's what was being presented to those teachers of. To say that we we do review I mean I will say that we review and that's part of what I mentioned earlier with arc grant procedures we tightened up on the grant procedures and then will. If every time we have something that pops up like this we look to see if those great procedures need to be further adjusted so that we can do a better job of catching these types of things I can answer the specifics on this one of ill should somebody if caught it well we would have liked to I'd like to say yes But the system that was in place and it's very possible that there would have been any way to catch that at the time but we've solidified that and the awareness is another thing one the awareness of our employees that this the impropriety of this but to the awareness of those who are in charge of granting funds for training professional development co op work it we've increased awareness there so that they do need to be more careful and looking at those thank you for that I think that's really important and and secondly I mean I know the audit findings there was some discussion about that but I mean I think if it's not reported on their statement of if that's not reported I would think the IRS would also need to know that this was paid and and they could be and alerted me that could be another step that says this is an audit finding they didn't report it here you know we could send that to with D. F. and A and say did they reported dollar taxes as income I mean I think that's another level of of threshold that maybe we could think about going down that path on a different side that thank you thank you thank you senator. All right we're down to for questions okay Representative in all. Thank you Mr chair just really quick question and this is going to be on the bonded debt assistance. Can you tell me about how many schools they actually use this bonded debt assistance. In the and our big book it's on page ninety if that helps you. That is again that's one of those owned facilities support programs we could get to I don't know if we have to you know the number that you get for can we can get that for you I don't know how many districts are left there are not many districts that are left on that because that's one of the older programs that are as money rolls off that money rolls into the partnership fund okay because a notice that in going back in the ten years it's just going down the list it's going down every year let's out with have nineteen million we're down to twelve I think now you're at about eleven one size just curious are they so are they just repeat schools are they schools is been on this program and they're just repeat their to the schools that are on the program that over peer to that life of the bonded indebtedness as a pay those off then they'll fall off the last so we're not adding new ones there just okay no the public partnership program has taken the place of all of those types of programs thank you. Right the thank Representative vault your seat forty two yes Sir thank you Mr chair we know that mental health issues is a big deal in our schools today and and how their dealing with those can you tell me what line item that falls underneath. Is the funding in this for that and if so what line that would be. I don't think there's anything specific for mental health if you're gonna have whatever components or in the foundation funding effort for counseling for any of those things so you so there's gonna be an Allen of that there I think in the professional development some districts use professional development funds to help increase awareness but I can't tell you that what we are you we. I think we're ninety year three of a federal grant where we have pilot schools of different sizes were working on Turning what is needed and what are some of the models of what mental health services are one available into practical for a school based setting of the other thing we're doing is a mental health first aid when we started we got the that Sam's a grant it was I think we had two or three trainers of mental health first aid and we've increased that considerably using that grant to have train the trainer so that now there are more people who and and obviously this is this training is not to be treating mental health but it's to recognize the signs and know what proper. Comparison to first responders they're not the doctors but the first responders knows what to do to immediately stabilized situation and get help that's what mental health first date is is similar to we are also working and in the coming weeks we are going to be bringing that other together groups of educators and community leaders on this topic because we receive so many so much feedback from districts about the growing need for this that we're gonna be convening group to identify okay we'll. What filter through you know what What are the common themes that we hear one of the common needs and how can we could develop response to those that we would be looking to bring to you sometime you know it when we get those results would bring that to you later on have we looked at may be partnering with DHS who might could get funds that could also helps with those kind of situation absolutely yes replies state agencies and both get tax dollars I would like to see all kind of combined together and see what you all can do together A maybe they can get funding that y'all can't get and that's why I'm asking that that's a great question and it's not just DHS and and that's one of the things that I believe transformation gives us a better way to. Put everybody together on that because I have had conversations with doctor Smith at health department with director Glaspie with in a public safety mean you name it there a lot of aspects of this is so we are at the very beginning stages of of. Identifying what the resources are the other component Representative that is important to this is the data and that's where we don't have a connected system of of knowing the data on mental health issues and that's something we're gonna be working on to can I ask another question will you be what is the availability of mental health providers in our areas like across the state is there are we in a deficit in certain areas and have more in others and what can we do to combat that well I think that's that is a theme whether it's mental health or many other services that we have that there are areas where there's a deficit in some cases but you would consider a desert of services so yes I do I have. That identified and data that shows no that's one of the data I think issues that we need to bring to bear so that we can know where to target our resources and our efforts or in some cases what I've I've also in talking with school districts is that there are resources there that they are not aware of and so it's also. The the connections to the resources that are present so it's a multi pronged approach thank you Mr chair thank you Representative. Senator Bledsoe guess we've heard from you today. Thank you Sir I just wanted to know as I have read information from other states on mental health and how they're meeting that need in the schools they're using tele health health and that is like telemedicine going into the schools and when there's not the availability of of a lot of of the mental health the providers of telehealth A Hey it is able to extend those providers because they don't have to travel the distance from a medium size medium size city to to the role areas you can do that to telehealth have you had a discussion about using that that that is a component of what to a doctor Betty Kendall who heads up the team that's working with that grant that that is a a topic that they are looking into and seeing what is available or what could be available especially in those hard to reach areas it's something that we would work very closely though with with the professionals with the the medical and professional staff because. We we don't want there to be a low quality of that service. Or so that's something we would have to keep a very close I agree with you it has to be quality yes ma'am thank you thank you senator Representative Lundstrum you're recognized yes I just had a couple questions last session we passed a bill on food service not shaming children that didn't pay for their fade putting a note on their chest and sending it home and giving them of the bag at the end instead of a plate lunch with the apple and all that stuff and while our think our intentions were good unfortunately carrying it out didn't work so well and we've heard from a number of our school districts that now kids are not applying for free and reduced lunch at all and some kids just aren't paying for lunch because everybody gets luncheon evidently that's causing a lot of problems for a school district's sometimes the the cost is fifty sixty seventy eighty thousand dollars because nobody's paying their bill so. How is that impacting and what do we need to do to correct that situation I went to brown bag lunch when I was a kid school the kids aren't really paying any attention to it but now the tax payers are having to pick that up and school districts are really hurting what do we do we need to go back and just cancel that bill start over again no I represent I don't think we should repeal that because we say this if being made into a kid is your tactic to make sure your school lunch gets paid that's the yeah we all said that that was not the right way to do it so I think. We wouldn't want to go back to that because it was happening I mean that's why we all got calls on the coverage of Davis was the sponsor that and that's one of the impetus for the following that bill We do have data that we know that there are districts harassing a considerable increase in charges of we don't have the data yet anecdotally we've heard some of the same things when I got folks that aren't even filling out there for you reduced. I don't know that the data is there yet to back that up that's something that we continue to look at but we're working with the districts that especially those that affect Dr Pfeffer has I've been working to get data directly from them to see what the impact is having those conversations that's just been with it's been an ongoing issue but We were really trying to get solid numbers of the impact we don't have any solutions yet our child nutrition a group is working with the local child due to a nutrition directors the food service directors constantly to try to come up with better ways one of the things that I think contributed to this that there was an intern a misinterpretation of the law that some districts felt like they could not talk to the parents. And that's not what the law says but that was the interpretation that that in the practice that began so we're trying to make sure that districts not ODS you can reach out to the parents the you just can't. Given alternative lunch you can't shame you can't put a wristband on kids you can't do any of those things but the contact with the parent to still appropriate and so we'll work on I'm being contacted by superintendents of concern is applying for grants for reading and other things that free and reduced lunches how they do that for other things and this is going to impact that so it's and then getting people to respond they can get him to come in to fill out paperwork for the free lunch and that type thing so. I'm anxious to hear what the numbers are and what we can do is for solution and then I have a follow up question go ahead and on retirement for teachers retirement. I'm concerned right now with with the reduced number of teachers coming in and paying into that system and the increased number of teachers retiring. The numbers are not going to match up for teachers retirement and I looked up how much we're gonna be short is about twenty two billion dollars at some point in our teachers retirement. That's a number that's going to create quite a budget crunch at some point for the state of Arkansas. How are we planning for that. Well in the this the last before the last session the retirement board instituted an increase in the employer contribution and the employee contributions so now that's moving up by one quarter of quarter percent each year for the next four years we are in year two of that now so now that increases. It's gone up to fourteen and a half percent employer contribution of that is funded in the governor's budget governor put funds in there for the this biennium and I suspected. will continue that into the next biennium up as an obligation of the state as far as the long term impact that's something I know that to Mr Rhoden and his team at teacher retirement one is there looking at very closely the. The and the retirement committee or the retirement board is looking at that closely to so I don't know that I can give you a long term outlook on what that looks like but I knew time do you know the short term the benefit side there been adjustments made their five to solidify the the fund and on the income side there changes in process to solidify that side of the ledger now I realize you're not in charge of that I think that as a body that we need to realize twenty two billion dollars is massive with the lower number of teachers in the teacher shortage. The numbers just don't life we're in trouble at some point in the near future the taxpayers will have to pay this out if teacher retirement is taking care of so that's a concern anyway all you back. Thank you Representative. Review rye usually thirteen still. You got final word thank you Sir and thank you Johnny for the job you do of. Ms Joyce Senate yours this test fail Mr will. The folks have been around a long time and they know the situation of of our teachers. Now we've got some fine administrators there's no doubt about it. But the minimum that were thrown out there. Jon S. that that's not going that's not going to touch it of the ones especially in the mental. John we've got teachers that have been in the business for twenty five thirty years making forty thousand dollars miss Boxley back home good folks to do great great job down you got your local property tax which is about a third of what it takes. then you know you got this is going back with our term recognized around what seven thousand something like that dollars for stir now. John no matter what we do. This money is going to go back to school board. And you like you say there's nothing that we at this point can do about it. But the mash this John. Is there some kind of stipulation. That that we can put in place. They can make sure now I know that if you make forty grand a year and and Reseda ministration may harm has. If you pass some kind of a bill and is it was to do with what you're you're talking about here. owner owner pay. Three percent would be a whole lot compared on forty thousand compared to a hundred ACT. But. It least we wouldn't go eight in ten years without a teacher get Iraqis. Is there something that we could do. Just send some type of a message back in the form of our money this going back to the school. Is there something that we could do. That would put in place something like if there was a three or four percent increase for the administration. That we can that we could put in three or four percent adjustment for the teacher's. I just wonder by the John I think the late represent Walker actually had similar language and he introduced to a couple of maybe a couple of sessions ago somewhere to the what you're saying to me you as the lege France legislative bodies General Assembly this within your right to. Put those type to stipulations on With respect to education funding I will say that That the the matrix is it's been discussed many times in the Education Committee it is a funding matrix not a spending model and so I think the the. Anything you do that takes autonomy edible from a local board local decision making you run the risk of unintended consequences and so I would just say that in any type of stipulation like that we would need to be thought out very carefully. Follow please requisite thank you Sir. John I I think we're going to have to do something no because Johnny what what you're running into is people that are going to enter two year colleges. John what we got nurses at about a ninety eight percent price were right there coming out of college and make you sixty five down here and then we got people working is still open Bible they're coming out making a hundred full or but we got teacher sitting here John Macon thirty five four thousand dollars that a man in a system for their twenty five thirty years John how in the world are we going to get teachers to come and do something lactate school when you campaign right John AT there's just too much inequity there. It's an ongoing challenge and I know that's one of the governor wanted to make a bold step in last session of getting the minimum going on going up and the well that's the minimum I think that's the first step to addressing it now as you address the How districts spend that money that's a different topic you know so I do think that we're always open to ideas Senate Clark few years ago had a measure that that he worked on with respect to teacher salaries to make sure that what is put in the the matrix goes to sound teacher salaries so I figure a lot of smart folks here in this room in this body that could come up with something that might address some of those problems would be glad to help. With the whatever information you need on that thank you John yes. I thought of the last question Senator Clark. I didn't do that on purpose ms chairman I apologize for my phone I'd already push the button commission. The of. Mr. You mention the autonomy and the of the local control that we all the most our Kansans like to have. The it. To the others point and you we we are not work on this together and Education Committee. The others point. What the legislature has put into adequacy for teacher salaries since two thousand eight. Would have raised them. To where the governor raise them and beyond if local schools had given that money to teachers wouldn't it have. That's correct yes Senator thank you. All right two more questions. We need it will entertain a motion. That we're going to of. Fast portrays rue the division of elementary and secondary education this is a three billion aid A huh eighty one million. Of budget it to fifty one million and a half budget increase do I have a motion and this is also the executive legislative and and department wreck of a motion and a second any discussion. All in favor say aye opposed miss Walter we're going go to public libraries. There may be a question you mad would use this stay there. You're recognized thank you Mr chairman the we're just looking AT one line item for the Arkansas state library public school fund. It's on page five of the schedule that I handed out. And it's a begins on page ninety five of the manual if you're looking at the manual. This is the. Eighteen to public library. From the Arkansas state library it is grants to local libraries to supplement those local libraries resources for the purpose of promoting resource sharing and to improve local library resources it is five point seven million dollars in public school funding this line is requested to remain flat and the executive recommendation provides for that. Okay no changes any questions I have a motion executive reckon a second any discussion all in favor say aye any opposed next one will be the last one will be the division of career a admits Waldron thank you Mr hold on. Are you lighten up for this next one. Okay all right to it. On page ninety seven of the manual and page six. Of the schedule that we prepared you'll find the division of career and technical education. This this division is comprised of a portion of what once was the department of career education. And the department appropriation is found on page ninety eight includes eight total appropriations. And they were funded using the career and public school fund as you'll see on the schedule there's a different color I highlighted the three appropriations they're going to the department of commerce by transformation in orange so all three of those appropriations governor's commission on don't literacy adult ed and GED testing are all moved out correspondingly from the director division of career and its public school fund appropriation to the department of commerce. And then if you don't mind I'll go over the just the ones with changes please do yes Sir. On the top one of the schedule you'll see the vocational started grants these are grants awarded to schools to purchase capital equipment supplies and program software to start a newly approved vocational programs locational program in the occupational program areas the agency is requesting two point seven million dollars for fiscal year twenty one this is a four hundred thousand dollar decrease from the previous year you may remember in fiscal year twenty. And they identified a balance of some excess funds that they were not using from their alternative retirement program fund and so they requested to infuse those funds within the vocational start ups they did that one time those funds are gone and so they're requesting to readjust their appropriation back down to normal levels and the executive recommendation provides for that request. The other remaining appropriation with the changes the career coaches public school or public school find appropriation this is partially funded by transfer from the educational excellence trust fund as well as fund balances provides grants to post secondary institutions co ops non profits in partnership with school districts to pay for career coach is to assist students in middle or high school to prepare for post secondary education or careers. The appropriation is increasing to three point seven million dollars in fiscal year twenty one and this is also result of transformation part of the program was house with the office of skills development so all that appropriation you'll see a corresponding decrease from office of skills development to the career coaches and this was executive rack the executive recognition provides for the request. Okay we've got a question. Senator hammer. Thank you Mr chair on the on the top line some of that if I remember right dealt with the adjustment to the cheers where we went to a two year program where we can identify the different categories which one should be funded and I. And I guess what I'm wondering is if I remember right there is about five million dollars worth request for vocational startup grants is that is that for the equipment is that what that line is designated for can you refresh my memory. Sorry the of that that line item is capital equipment nonconsumable supplies software that sort of thing to help support new new approach newly approved vocational programs. So why would we not want to try to put. A why we want not what try to put more money in that line and then be why would we not want to try to put more money to the ocean voshon vocational center aid line as well because it seems like this recurring theme we talk about how much we need all this out the community. But it help me understand if I'm not speaking right why we're not putting more money in it in those two lines. Well I'm. Yes my answer I don't know if that would be Mister Walters answer but my answer is trying to keep this in line with the balanced budget that was submitted. For the biennium and then knowing that we were going to have some of these transfers due to transformation of there was just not a the decision at this point to try to add anything to that on the vocational centre aid that's that's the line item that we will end up being the affected by the tiered funding and so the it'll it'll be distributed differently and then that'll give us a As those programs. As we get more data on those programs and understand what the true need is will be able to look to see what adjustments money to be made in the future but again I think in this first year of the tiered funding we didn't want to change it going into the second year of the biennium because it would we want to keep balance with the balanced budget. Do you anticipate that when we get to it the next time around that there's going to be an intent by the department to try to increase funding to that because of four put the shift toward career education and I know there's only so much of the pod to divide but is well established that that's near that we need to you know give more emphasis toward more funding toward can you speak to what your intent may be to the future then act I really can't give you details on the intent but I can't tell you what the governor's public statements has been very consistent in his support for career education funding and that's something that you will be working with his office in the F. and A on the budget to going into this fall and then the career coaches on the public school fund refresh my memory what what they do and do they tie into how do they tie into the creature tech aspect of things which sector hang on a second whoever's house twenty four you've got center area blocked in and she's trying to have a cal if your house twenty four would you go move your car so that the center and it can get out go right ahead now sorry. Thank you Mr chair of the clear coaches and is funded through those are grants to go out two two year colleges the salaries and benefits you have half of those that are funded by see to you by the division through those grants half of funded by the school districts coverage for travel four yep they may be a career coach it covers more than one school district but they do that work of working with those students to try to identify what the the options are for them and how they can pursue their career goals. And that is and that has been increased I'm interpreting that right. I think that was a again a transfer from department of commerce for some of those funds were house so I think it's probably a wash I don't think it's a overall increase but uh it this reflections that transfer okay less coming against make and then I'll welcome the response and I'll stop is. You know we're we can is there a reason we couldn't shifted that money that came in the transformation up there to the top two lines instead of the career coaches. Well I think we have commitments on the career coaches you have people who are in those positions I don't think there was any extra money of available outside of the commitments and the grants that were already being issued okay thank Mister thank you seeing no other questions we need a motion for executive wrecked. The motion and a second any discussion. All in favor say aye. Any opposed. Folks Gaddis we will be back here. Tuesday at nine AM we've got public health of. It all public safety on Wednesday and DHS on Thursday which a rapper separation a to good work we are adjourned.