Joint Budget Committee

Requesting various changes to the appropriation. Mischairman when some of those have personal related changes and special language related changes assume you want me to announce that yes okay yes sir. Self week we start on item b and membership excuse me these these are the letters we are adopted these letters to get the bills drafted and the bills we will come back before this committee just to make that clear. Go ahead well. Yes sir and and some of those would love our are the governors letters which you refer to which come next as well item b two it's the b two and operate hand corner this is an amendment to send a bill ten for the administrative office of the courts for court personnel. This does not have any personal especial language this does change their appropriation purpose to assessment screenings expenses this is appropriation only there are no changes in the amounts there is no general revenue funding associated with this if the committee adopts this letter that your staff will draft the amendment to immense senate bill ten in a question. Most you to adopt over motion in a second any discussion i'll in favor say I in the opposed it is adopted. Mrs german item b three that's on page three this administrative officer of the courts request this does have personnel changes and special english will send its a special language in personal committee. Yes sir. And was chairman there's a lot of those like that item before house bill ten thirty seven attorney general has personal changes personnel. So it takes us to page nineteen in your b packet it's item b five it's in a bill twenty nine auditor state has personnel change send a personnel. Item be on page twenty seven land commissioner has personnel changes personnel. Item be seven is on page thirty three this is for the ten governor it has personal changes personnel. Okay mister item b eight this is on page thirty five this does not have any special language or personnel related change request it's house bill ten thirty five sector state. It creates a new appropriation to sperild it asked for an amendment to create a new appropriation it's a special revenue appropriation funded through document processing fees for maintenance and support of the business and commercial service electronic filing system of one million eighty thousand dollars. It also deletes the letter also request to delete a state central services appropriation which they are no longer using which was over one million dollars so it deletes one of their state central and it creates a new appropriation out of special revenue. It equations own house bill ten thirty five. You have emotion to adopt we have emotion and a second any discussion i'll in favor say I in the opposed health bill ten thirty five adopted. Like mischairman so that amendment will be drafted and will be on the next budget calendar house item b nine is on page thirty seven sector state again but it has personal changes personnel. The. Or on item btand. This is on page forty five. This letter it's a single letter but it can be broken into two requests mister chairman. One of the request is to draft a supplemental bill. And if the committee chooses to adopt that part of the request then your staff will draft that bill which will then be referred to this committee so the i'll go over the first part first go okay so this is this is a. A new bill request in their letter and we're on page forty five it adds one point eight million dollars payable out of state central services for equipment cameras and other use one time expenses for additional security positions and it also adds thirty four positions for security related positions that is request to have the supplemental bill drafted mister chairman. Any questions for sector state on this. The. Seeing no and paying emotion to adopt have a motion in a second any discussion all in favor say i. Any opposed it is adopted second part of this letter getting his chairman so will draft that it'll be referred to the committee and I would imagine you'll refer to personnel okay. And so house bill ten thirty five also goes to personnel for the rest of the letter on page eleven and i'm sorry on page fifty three governors letter eleven supreme court has personal related changes personal. And then on page fifty five. This is item b twelve this has both personnel changes and special language changes in a special angle dan personnel. The. We actually had they actually had a hand out for additional for changing their special language I don't know if you want to just since it's going anyway they're passed handed out. Thanks. Yeah. The. So now we're. I remember what we passed out on the beach twelve that that's going to be that's been spent the central special language anyway but there was changes this year's for your information and we'll go to see one strange okay thank you mister chairman we have twenty nine governors letters there executive branch get all of these governors letters to us up front instead of throughout the physical session which is unusual was a lot of work on their part governors letter number one. Are members hold out the chatter thank you. Governors letter number one has a gl number one upper right hand corner this is a request by the governor for their recommendations for supplemental appropriation bills which is a bill for the current year the year were in as opposed to all these other bills which start july wine. If the committee chooses to adopt this letter then staff will draft the five appropriation bills that are shown on the fourth page it's a summary page. In these bills will be interduced and referred to this committee where the committee will decide how they want to act on the supplemental bills. You want to go all right. Serve ever question for my transfer well but probably for the agency or there are whoever's or dfa and man's gonna be on this geo warn in just on the department of correct you're on the governor of letters one year about it with the. Robert you come in at. Reluctantly. Yes. Okay miss chairman for your request the summary page if you go it says page wine on go one but it's the fourth page in you'll see the summary page. And you'll see this is the request they have and you'll see the agency request you'll see by agency and you'll see the appropriation mouth at requested and then you'll see. Like the four point two million also request general revenue of four point two million and this is a window center he is talking about in these are this is a summary of the five bills that will be draft. Which break your energy yourself a year free feel free to ask questions thank you mister chair and and I won't ever I don't understand I do understand what we're doing here and if this is just to to draft the bill in the will here it. But I think now is the town to begin this discussion so I have no problem with doing this uh whatsoever this is a need you know not a desire so I literally have no no problem with doing this and where will take this out of this year's. This year's money my question is this the current budget that you all had just presented you to dot increase your line item I don't believe for the county jail reimbursement. So I guess the thing is if we're doing a county jail reimbursement of four point two million in this year. And we don't have it in next year's budget. In my mind I see that is owned as an ongoing tab experience because I don't see that going away so can you explain to me how you how you all are not going to come back for us for another supplemental next year. And you don't have it in the in the new budget rubber break the fa no no it's a very good question in a in a reasonable question of what happened though the supplemental err agenda was developed first and the department of corrections came to us and said they needed four point two million for the county jail reimbursement that was agreed upon the governor's office agreed to it in in we did agree to put that in the supplemental a subsequent to that we started looking into it a little closer we don't think they're gonna need four point two million this physical year and they do hack have carry forward language as matter of fact they carried over a million dollars I think from last year of their to have to spend this much money they would have to average I may miss us a little bit but around twenty two hundred in mates in the county jail and they're not averaging that I think they miscalculated on how many there are miss their predictions weren't correct though they're only averaging a little under eighteen hundred yeah further for the entire year and so if you do the math on that they they are going to have they they will leave a supplemental to finish out they won't need the four point two I don't believe but if even if they if they don't that would be carried over and they won't need it next year but that's what happened well then that leads me that leads me even even further if I made mister chair so if if we don't need four point two million dollars where we ask him for for four point two million dollars of out of I mean it is grow because although it's in. General a lightmare wherever it's sitting right now what why are we asking for more than we need because originally that's what they said they would need it was just recent that they agreed that they would not need that much so I mean okay to be honest I have I have no issue if you wanted to amend that and and cut that back I think that's reasonable as well but they're just not having the numbers in the county jails is they thought they were sure and again I have no problem with doing this II don't want anybody missed understand. But you're right as as dhas education and department of creations in if i'm wrong with the staff I think those are the three that are allowed to do to carry over. Each year but the thing is is I don't want it I don't want to do additional money that's not needed right now if you don't mind and it's going to get carried over when that should be in our race a burger. For next year because if we're allowing those curiosities if we're doing this out of out of surplus in this year if we're doing this out of surplus in this year and we know that we don't need that amount of money. And that's being carried over and put in a savings account. Then you have excess appropriation or whatever you need to draw it out and it's not in sa the net means our budget is not correct I don't disagree with you I think what what happened when they thought they needed the four point two we just left it in their knowing and they don't have carry forward language overall they do have carry forward language for the specific phone and so no harm no file if they don't use it all it would be carry forward to next year and they wouldn't need any I don't believe they'll need any next year if they get the four point two yeah I mean you're correct if we try to get this we we try to narrow this down and say you cut it down to a two million dollars and then we very well may have to come back next year or add something in the rsa but they're just not having the numbers that they predicted yeah and I guess that's cheer for me up and that's my pool and this will make my port from now acting in the governor if we're going to one point seven six percent I do but by the same token I want to make sure that it's a true one point seventy six percent so if we're using this year's money parking in an account and then it's not in rsa but we're going to use it and it is a recurring expense every year. Then then that's that's not a true budget so personally i'd like to say that the department of creations is coming from what they need in this fiscal year if I twenty four. That we do just that amount whether it's a million or two and now i'd like it proved up after hearing some of this. I'd like that down and then if you need to have it an increase in race then that's where it needs to be because it is a recurring experience. This. The. Even if we if we if you do reduce it and and try to get it closer to the number I still wouldn't recommend that are going to be that they're barely going to miss it this year but I can assure you we're not we weren't looking at the rsa trying into trim off a million or two a two million dollars increase would raise a point zero three percent so it isn't as if we were sitting around train to get it down to one point seven six that wasn't a magical number if you did if we put two million in the rsa it would raise it to one point seven nine k but that's going to be about point and you know but not and you know I thought you to death but that's what that's where i'm going to be so you're correct that's going to go to one point seven nine here whenever we do something in DHS that I think should be recurring and it raises another almost say yeah well at that we should be at one point eight three five in the next one that comes through then you're correct and will say well we should be at one point eight seven that's my point these are all going to add up and I want it to be done correctly at least I haven't one vote down here now I understand that but looking at their numbers and if they do increase the number of beds and they and the number of inmates in the county jails do go down I still wouldn't recommend that you increase the rsa I wouldn't suggest you wait until next spring if they need a supplemental next spring we could get it for them but it just doesn't look as if they need the money that they thought they they did originally asked for four point two million for that in in the budget as well and we didn't put that in there mister mister chair my least remasting import and I don't see that it's prudent whenever we sit here and heard that that amount of money is not needed in this fiscal year to be transferred in the account to be used next this will year I think that we need to do some analysis we look at this. A and see what the exact number is again but what we're just drafting a bill but but also we've got four five other questions okay well again I don't want to draft the bill if we can hit this off at the past in create a little less work for dfa staff for whoever else thank you mister thank you senator. Serve dismantle recognized and just a question on this this fund can only be used for county jail reimbursement is that that's correct okay so we can't be transferred and wallet around inside corrections for some other purpose to retool for something else that's correct okay in in there is fluctuations in counter gales and what we do you know I think the goal is to open up more beds and when we do that that decreases the need on county jail reimbursement what that's proven to be a little more difficult than maybe some and administration would like it to be you know maybe push back from the board or what happened so if things go accordingly if i'm hearing you correctly they may not need the money but if things don't and they're not able to open up additional bed space than the band be a need for this money out we just don't know at this point but again for clarification it can only be used for county jail reimbursement that's absolutely correct and and there is carry forward for this particular phone but department of crexis does not have carried forward in general but but it would stay there for that sole purpose but it carries forward because there's fluctuations even between years so maybe he asked and they below depending what's happened there's some consistency but that's created error it's really dependent on what the board does to open up additional bed space yes and in the department correction may still be under the opinion that they need the four point two million I can tell you the budget office we don't think they do. Okay. Thank you. Reviewed a root in your reconnect for a question thank you mister chairman. I know you're looking forward to this. You tell me they got less numbers in the attention to your caller period. And they got lower numbers and it's eighteen hundred k jail. It works if you come up here and ask is for the two thousand three thousand bed. Proves. In the end what do you. The basketball and more answered same than all these apple mental appropriations agree with this economic situation yeah because the pay has no reduced to the interest rate. So we're going to have a problem the man that questions is. If you know that this is too much. The four point two million at least you all that it isn't the f a. Well how much more are we over is all the rest it was the total room over and the supplemental income here. Or keep in mind this is the only item in the supplemental agenda they've would that is requesting additional funding this is the only item they have the rest is all appropriation maybe some of those appropriations i'm sure that they want to make sure they can get through the end of the fiscal year with that appropriation that they've asked for and I think this is particularly more important because they're asking for funding as well but none of the other appropriations in the supplemental agenda are requesting any additional funding. Hi well how much intotal there are we talk in the man. And in total total supplemental. I think their numbers around forty million in the community general revenue portion of it again the four point two is the only general revenue request for money there are some other items in the non general revenue there were more but I we didn't look at we didn't look at education's numbers to see if there ninety eight percent urt that that is exactly what they needed an appropriation you look at the six million dollars to request an idea. We didn't look at we can look at theirs as close because they weren't asking for general revenue i'll just admit this to you and everyone else appropriation doesn't doesn't mean a lot to me I mean appropriations important this one thing but they have to have the appropriation that's the authority to spend the money my focus is usually on the funding more than the appropriation to be quite honest i'm understand being open so we did not we did not look at that as closely as when somebody asked for additional revenue so did they tell you from the corrections to department that the year that is few there's eighteen hundred and one point we had to warn it to andrew the. It would take if you do the math is forty dollars per inmate if you do the math two thousand inmates would be twenty nine point two million dollars there they're funding that they have currently yes twenty six five I believe someone is twenty six okay some somewhere. They haven't they haven't met that number there have been days in the last physical year where they had they've had over two thousand inmates but when you look at the average it's under eighteen hundred just under eighteen hundred so they are going to need additional funding we agree with that but there was a disagreement with with the department of correction how much they do fail in the. Governor's office in the correct other disagreement about the mail there was a disagreement between corrections and the budget office yes yes thank you mister chairman thank you senator hammer you're recognized for question the commission the first one is going to be mischered like to hear from the other side if the debate is defaces there's no need I collect your anybody from the department and you'd come up. Do you have a question for robert new york white known them when I go head and say question robert and robert union this one it's a four point two million when I flip over and I look at the next one there's jail contracts that have one point five three three are those two related to each other they unrelated items I adapted have the department of corrections answer that i'm not i'm not sure okay yeah I will recognize yourselves you can after senator hammer's questions lensy will a secretary or cancel department of corrections can you repeat your question after the. Check round cheap financial officer department of corrections. April davis budget administrative division of corrections good morning my questions is a dfa saying that. That the average is not there but you know we constantly hear about the jailbeing overcrowded so i'd like to hear the other side of the story and are you speaking on behalf of the department corrections only or you speaking on behalf of the chairs associations and those who have to deal with them with the county jails. The. If it's okay with you or i'd like to have director paying come up here and we will be speaking solely on behalf of the department of corrections okay thank you. Mister ways coming is everybody in the room from. Association counties or shares or somebody can speak specifically by to hear with association or so can you. Don't see anybody. The. Direct revealed it interest rouge yourself served hamburger question for you thanks to paying under director for the division of correct. Good morning my question is there seems to be at least my opinion we're here in one side from dfa i'd like to hear from the other side as far as he agreed with what dfa just said as constantly it seems like we are being told that there's none of my funding for canny jail the population county jail so just like to hear the whole story specifically from your side please yes so the counter deal back up flux weeks. Day bad day are today we have about twenty two hundred total in the county the other vision of correction has about eighteen hundred we have ninety day and makes backed up almost a little over three hundred so we today we've got about twenty twenty two hundred only county deal back up so they're flux away. Every day just a bands or how many people who release and how many it makes for bringing in the day so the average the average last year may have been eighteen hundred but I expected to definitely rise what drives it. I expect the number to rise past at eighteen hundred average up to closer two thousand at least. So if we. Cut the four point two how would you see that plain out in the future as far as. Would a matter I mean they're their base in their position on eighteen hundred if we take the four point two away how do you see that resolving working out the future playing out so senator i'm looking at some of our monthly averages you have twenty twenty three. Through tober of twenty twenty three we had a monthly expensive around two point three million dollars. The average county geo back between those months july twenty twenty three and it was twenty twenty three those were all above two thousand. So for example july twenty twenty three we had two thousand three hundred fifty four in mates and county jail in october of twenty twenty three we had two thousand forty eight. November up through february this year it was between one thousand nine hundred and eighteen hundred in mates and counting joe back and as record pain said we're a little over two thousand this month. Okay so share cash robert question date robert your your test million semesters who stirred was eighteen hundred but you're hearing the numbers that they're presenting how did you arrive at the eighteen hundred and i'm trying to resolve connecting those numbers play apart in our final decision will keep in mind that the eighteen hundred was about probably three or four weeks ago could have gone up but we took those numbers directly from their reports I have an analyst who follows that she puts the daily number into a spreadsheet I had a calculate the average if I recall it was seventeen hundred and eighty and changed you heard mr brown talk about through and and it filled with the right with their expenditures two point three million a year would be twenty seven point six oh two point three million a month would be twenty seven point six for the year. Again not close to the thirty million that you know the four point two would do now in there are times when they when the inmates were daily numbers are up to twenty two hundred. But you have one I looked at the averages it would be very hard to average two thousand if three force of the year you average eighteen hundred that's what you that's what I was looking at now against there's a disagreement do I want them to get the four point two I have no problem with that because it's going to carry forward and they'll be able to use it next year but you can see this as the dynamic that was happening with the disagreement but but I all I can tell you is the expenditures lined up with what they daily average as we were calculating. And it doesn't mean that the last quarter of the year it won't be higher but that that's why we're looking at mischaracter bbq thank you may give question I and guess in the way it's gonna be for both med there's no debate on whether or not you pay the counties for the we know the per prisoner cost. I've said it's not that's not it for debate that's not simply you know you get a decision to make or not what would happen those if the money let's should say that sent things fluctuate and they fluctuate in the wrong direction in there's a lot more folks getting locked up in the briting of the counting jails are getting more more fool if you do run out of money what would you have to do. Come and ask for it in that that's right and in so but the reality is and in but in the that's going to give you whatever the turnaround time is when when you go dry. To whenever peer meets the counties will not get paid. Just to be clear so this is kind of just a safeguard in place that can roll forward to help prevent any averaging that may happen on the outside in year and we all want it to be lower which is hopefully the way that it will end up but there's a chance if we did happen to start averaging twenty two hundred in mates because the border whoever doesn't move forward with increasing bed space. That you could need those additional funds or really I should say the counties would would deserve to be paid for the additional prisoners that their house. So the only thing we're talking about is timing in a sense you could come and do it but we would put a burden on the counties to have to wait until we were able to meet in here and go through that process to have it approved so probably about it too much turn around if everything worked out the way that it was supposed to. That fair thank you. Soon for painting you recommend for a question thank you mister chair I think this will be for the fight but. So this. Funding mechanism is money that we tax the citizens of arguments are in excess of what we needed so it's sitting in surplus and my correct about that's correct it's it's setting in an inner account now that actually is composed of the monies that were turned back from the agencies which have come out mistaken the department of corrections so we would be dedicating that money to the county jail reimbursement which means that portion of the money would not be spendable on anything else that's right if we don't do that. What happens to the money do we send it back to the taxpayers or do we know what it'll be spent on that that money is sitting in the same account that all those the surplus funds will flow into and what happens to that that money is up to the legislature can't be touched by anyone but the legislature while you're in session to our choice is horred the money or use it for this expense that we know is. An expenses that's coming. But I don't know about hording and you know four point two million when you look at all the balances of the hell I wouldn't I wouldn't consider that horribly money II think what we're looking at we know that they do need a supplemental there's a disagreement on how much in and I was just being as open and transparent as I could be if they got the four point two million we all agree they'll have enough to make it through the end of the year if there are any funds left those phones would sit there and only to be used for this purpose next year there wasn't any sort of grand conspiracy to try to you know cut the road say down or anything else right now but that we know that they're going to need extra money how much exactly were not sure and and we have the money sitting there and if we don't spend it for this we don't know how it's going to get spent or what is going to get spent for that would be a future suggestion there's seven point six million dollars in that account currently and those are the the moneys that were reclaimed from the agencies last year after because as you'll recall there were seven hundred and ten dollars swept into the area reserve a count that zeroed out the account at that time after that subsequent to that we had the moneys reclaimed by the agencies because I takes time for that to occur and that's the seven point six million that's currently on that account we were going to use four point two million of that for this purpose thank you thank you mister chair you get identified yourself yes sir good morning by jim hudson sector DFA just hopefully trying to have clarity not confusion to the conversation used to be clear though the administration inclusive of dfa and department corrections has one position it set forth and letter. We're requesting the four point two robert is director budget is doing exactly what we expect him to do to do the tough analysis ask the questions do you really need their money and when do you need that money so he's doing exactly what we need him to live. I think in terms of do you look at this from perspective of the rear view or do you look at it through the windshield the department I think it's the benefit that out when we're looking through the windshield and what their telling us is coming down the road so that they have all the tools and the funding that they need or to be able to pay the counties. We're asking we go ahead and get this taken care of now the other points have I been made they can only use it for this one specific purpose than carry forward in the next fiscal year. So just to be clear there's no there's no disagreement between dfa and the department of corrections there's analysis that's gotten done and the conclusions most analysis control different conclusions on that but we've got one position as a ministration on this and were asking this body please approve the four point two century he can do you have a question or. You are recognized yes your man's for the department of corrections okay my solely budget I appreciate all this other conversation I think it's a right to get education but man's budget down here what we do is a general assembly as we operate from physical year to fiscal year we're currently in FY twenty four correct so we're now fly twenty four how much money. Do you need. For the county jail reimbursement to get you to june thirtieth. Of this physical year that's that's the number that this body needs to operator. Next fiscal year. If we see that cost are increasing that needs to be factored into our budget. I understand if we want to have a small balance or something there but I want to know you come up with a four point two million dollars word were your calculations on how you calculated that you needed four point two million dollars. So wearing and was today this is a. April. So we got april rest of the rest of april I would may down to june thirtieth so we've got however many days are you tell me how you need four point two million dollars how you're gonna spend that in this fiscal year which is what this this body should be dealing with not curious phones. I have a struggle personally although this bodies allowed it for years and and you know I understand the importance of it I sometimes have a struggle even with that we allow these carrier over phones and you know basically we're doing that we do that you know basically from one general assumely to it next I have a little bit of an issue even with doing that but that's that's a whole other story how did you come up with the four point two million dollars what your calculations. Well seller if you want to look at how we get it down to the penny if you are mile allowance to travel to you you can give six eight hundred thousand even in this deal just that's just okay let us get back to the **** and will provide our calculations. I mean we take our we take our monthly averages we look at our invoices that are coming in for us is the department we want to make sure we don't run out of money at the end of the fiscal year because if we run out of money we can't pay those invoices. They come in through the county journals now it just and I did mean interrupt you but I would want to stop right there so you're talking about running out of money before june thirtieth. And then i'm hearing that we're using it for carryover that I just want to know what you need for this biscular and we can provide that but i'm our goal is not to carry over money our goals just to pay the invoices that come in as they come in we just don't want to run out of money and i'm not saying that we are so you going to need the four point two million you're going to pay out so what you're telling me is that you're going to pay out whatever all of your current balances are within that phone right now plus four point two million. Or close to that bad june thirtieth of this year I think we will get very close. And that runs contrary with what mr hudson hit said the df are saying I don't I don't think it runs control so I think any time we look at projections and we work with the office of wages if they disagree. We come to the table and we come to an agreement and we look at each other's calculations and figure out we come out with an agreement mr chair i'll have a motion if if you're aware of property term thank you senator we got other questions so just feel you have a question yes must cheer i've heard that the department of corrections and the governor's office have said we need four point two million dollars i've heard my friend roberts say you don't need four point two million dollars but what I have not heard of robert say is how much do they need is yeah we have a specific amount as being asked for. I heard it used out we don't need that much what specifically do you think they do need so we can get you to yes on this budget you're asked you're asking me yeah I don't know if you're asking when we looked at the numbers and we looked at the average expenditures and we looked at the averages in the county jails you know it looks like if if those averages hold true now let me just expect to take a mouth at robert and need to know you get there I just need a number of how much money well let me just put it this way I believe that if their average is do go up to twenty two hundred in the last quarter. Okay I think that they could end up somewhere in the in the neighborhood of nineteen hundred and fifty on average now I work on averages of which would be a total of how much money we're looking at four point two vs probably around twenty eight and half million. Twenty two thousand inmates it is exactly twenty nine point two million. That that's what that's what the expension be would be for the year forty dollars not counting the leap year so that i'm only getting better but that okay so that's the total we're looking at four point two nine twenty nine something some they have twenty six eight four point two would take them to thirty one so you think they need three point one million dollars. Instead of. Four point two and out I just need to get him out of the other would all of this stuff I just need specifics they say four point two usaver. I would think three would be sufficient but I don't I don't have a problem with the four point two I know you don't because it was going to carry forward in just like they had a million dollars it's the carry forward this year but you are going to pity me against the governor's office and the corrections here but but that's okay I mean it is it's my job and I do think I think that would be enough but I don't have a problem with the four point two for the reasons that I said but that's why we didn't put it in next year's budget because it's it's clear that it's it's not clear that it's needed for next year especially if they do open up additional bits though not that but that's a rep was troubling me is that we are not providing to the countries the same amount of money that we provide to the department of corrections when people are incarcerated there. We're not paying the same amount of money to the county jails that we pay to the department of corrections per per prisoner always and that's not for me to say but I can tell you this if we did you would bust the budget I mean you know I don't know I know i'm senator and the region we don't is we do II know what we don't language that we do not do a mechanic that's fine mission but i'd like to get to a yes on this and as we look at mr hutson and mister breck they are both saying then I have probably four point two million dollars and yet we're continuing to beat this to death if we underfine this we're going to have to come back in here and get some more money and so it's troubling to me that we're sitting here knowing that they can't spend money there is not asked for and so how do we get to yes on this issue is my concern so between three and four point two but if we have the four point two then we know. That we will have sufficiency if we do the three were not sure we will have sufficiency that is a major concern of my thank you mister. So chase for you through all right just mine just one rule quick question that this is coming out of you know what the balance is about seven million there's seven point six million in the general up in reserve and this is money said have been returned from agencies that's correct and by not mistaken most of a came from the department of direction which which means it was included in their budget that's right they just didn't spend it that's right which means it changes nothing as an overall percentage of spend in fact if he went back and looked at what our spin was in gr it would be less than the actual by about seven million dollars that's what we're saying. But the seven point six was from all agents right but i'm saying in general because I think they're at that's the point is you know so if we were to respind this money or were not increasing spending money anywhere it was already accounted for in somebody's budget sounds like a barment of corrections and we didn't cut corrections this year did we. Now so you're getting the same amount of money that you returned last time again so again the overall budget changed on a percentage level is none that's correct okay i'm just want to make sure you were in the same page because it would be different you know but suppose you could make the argument if we were using it out of reserved accounts or whatever but this is money that's been returned that was allocated to be spent that was not experienced so that we are not actually increasing the overall budget because it was already part of their budget that's correct and it's not technically surplusing that not in the sense of a surplus from the revenue thank you. Senator mark johnson you're recognized thank you miss chairman I would like at the right time if this is your by your judgment mister chair i'd like to cut rarely with the chair of association to come in to the table I think this the right turn okay with you if you could invite mr barely come up I would I have a question or two for him and my internal table. Mr bradley would you get there for your identify yourself and search the jobs and but I asked questions. Thank you mister chairman i'm scott bradley on the director of the arkansas shares association. The. Thank you miss chairman i'm over here I call i'm sure he's my former share from in van bearing up scott I don't know I think I appreciate sender hickey's point that we need to have truth in budgeting and I appreciate roberts point that we need to yeah he has to say look gaz sharper your principle I get all there I want the candies perspective in the sheriff's perspective because this has been a problem for years I think we kind of addressed it I want to know where you all are coming from I know that the there is not a constant amount of reimbursement needed I don't want to create a cash flow band for any of the counties if there's any situations can you give us your perspective on this so we can appropriately find what is needed that in this supplement. Yes yes sir thank you first fall I want to say thank you we did receive an increase increase to forty dollars so that that helped that help their county jail for the phone that's programmed mate per day yes sir yes so we we did receive that and that was helpful you know I think part of the issue is in allow the extra here or correct me if i'm wrong but there's we're not using the epa the emergency powers act anymore where were releasing people which the share supported so I think we're we are at twenty two hundred last time is that correct twenty two hundred right now and growing and we're going to continue to grow. Now how much are we gonna grow I guess depends on how many cases are worked throughout the stay and that may be part of the issue i'm trying to figure this out to the penny it's got a fluctuate a little bit so. We're happy we're getting our forty dollars a day we we we're looking forward to our jails are full. We're not holding mystimaters none of its another conversation for another committee I would imagine that that's part of the problem we you know we can't work our missed me or crimes because we're overcrowded we also they're hours to the bigger jails are for they also haven't sleeping on the floor we're having issues. Keep in our or officers working in their keeping staff just like everybody else is and we were facing all kinds of issues. But i'm just happy you're here talking about getting this budget put in this money back so we can get paid we just want to make sure the counties get the right because I need it I appreciate your graciousness my friend but we got inside how we're going to deal with his four point two million step mount can you tell us your position you're well you're at your association's position on you know what is needed we want to help you but but we don't want to overspend or have money sitting there that might could go somewhere else but for us if you were you put enough money in there to covered first a little bit securities over and it's going to be used next year for the same issue we don't have a problem with that okay the money is going to be there and added on the next year I feel like I feel acquired chasing our tail here i'm not and i'm not put it on you i'm just simply saying that that you know you have the department saying one thing you have budget office and another you get says he say I want some real numbers so i'm looking at real numbers in there and II think we could probably do this all day long but but you're at this moment our countings are okay the sheriffs are okay with what what we're doing I mean I know we we need more space and department correctly but as you said it's a court question for another and and we're working out lord help us but that's but I just we wouldn't need to dispose of this particular budget item and I want to make sure that you all were okay at least with the general direction that we're going with this yeah so app appreciate you guys talking about the shortage and in taken care of that force to make insurer that the counties are getting their money cause they rely on that money to to to be able to do their job thank you share really thank you mister chair i'll let someone else ask you all right members we are we are getting bogged down in a very simple proposation here this is a supplemental adam this is for the current. Fiscal year there were in right now. All right and what what it and i'll admit the answers have not been clear it could then have been a problem but looks like we're probably going to need at least three million dollars. So we don't have to come back to peer. To supplement these candy jails is that this is what this is for and this has nothing to do with the budget we're dealing with now twenty twenty five this is a supplemental for twenty twenty four it it it not necessarily going to increase but they can do that on the twenty twenty five but this is supplemental for the current year we're in right now they do need i'm guessing to and I have to bring me in the net one would probably be tight going to be close. What we need to do is is figure out and we know the four point two cannot be spent anywhere else is called stay part is is this worth kill me later to get the the legislation draft and I don't think it is but we've got I guess more questions i've got four more questions here land up we're going to a lot more let you members and but I think we got other business to do this is the only supplemental it's it's it's we need to deal with it we don't need our canny jails not getting paid when end of may or june comes around I really don't believe that so we're going to we're going to go back to the questions and I think everybody but represent cabinet is not afone yet and I will recognize her well thank you for recognizing me mister chair I actually have a motion where hold on that I will get all the questions and I hope it's a good move for immediate consider if it's a good move for immediate considerations or it it's not debatable that we're most meeting consideration in a second all in favor say I alright. Revealing off what you're. Is it to adopt the four point two ok ever motion to adopt the four point two all right we will have discussion and a second any discussion. Soon you're recognized yes sir the thing is we're in the second day of this session we operate fiscal year to fiscal year my point with this ears is as mr breck say at an app and I greatly respect you on him and I work close and I think he knows that along with mr hudson. The the thing is is that is the way this legislature is supposed to operate we're not supposed to operate that we automatically know that we're going to kick fines over into the physical year because if we start operating that way. Our budget if it's recurring phones are not correct you allow too many of these tap out again this may only be a few basis points percentages of a basis points I agree to that but you start a wearing these items over and over and over again where it's not if it needs to be increased in an rsa then at that point you have a hard time doing tax planning fortunately the members of the senate of allowed me to cheer revenue and tax but what you've got to understand is that that point you start that you have two million here you have five million there. We've never been in this position before where we've had all of this money. So if we are well a larger amount of money like this in the future if we don't have that in our budget if we don't have that in our budget then we can't we can. Prudently prepare for for tax planning and as far as this stuff about the county jails getting paid I think that i'm the one that actually did the legislation a few years ago because the department of creations was not paying the county jails on tam and required them to pay that within thirty days so I don't want to buy her to think that i'm not an advocate for the county jails or for that that to be set out here because I think we can debite that for six weeks if we want to. But. From a taxpayer standpoint as one of our other members said we need to make sure that there is a sufficient amount as senator chesterfield say it but a sufficient amount is that four million is at six million or is that narrow and in there all masking for is that this body slow down let them work on it tomorrow get it to his next week. Unless you're see what that amount is based on what the numbers are it's a that that's all i'm doing mister cheers and I appreciate that certainly and believe me you know we we we know you're watching the dollars we appreciate this but there's two factors this is only the latter this will draft it this bill will come back in maybe I will have a better set of answers for that in a word about money that we roll over we roll over hundreds of million dollars for education and hundreds of million dollars for DHS every year and never say a word this is very small amount and I do want to protect our candy jails. Well we're having discussion of the bill no no it's not right next in the other questions. Oil are you now just to be clear there was no motion on the floor when the immediate consideration motion was made so the medical center was to consider it right. Well this motion that were discussing came after the media correct thank you. Any other questions from you got a question. Discussion excuse me discussion you're off revenue would you don't have discussion to you. We're back to you revenue cabinet I just want to clarify this is for us just to do the appropriation to draft the letter of direct rating for appropriation it's going to go to whatever committee it needs to go to and we're going to have the same the bill back here the supplemental bill next week probably. Okay i'm totally going to special language I said he. So so at that point if we found out that the that the amount could be less. Can an amendment be done on that in special language yes. Thank you. Reveal wouldn't do having a discussion my question discussion. The. It was numbers are going down. Well they made that statement not see that's where we are you should hear it though and he says that they are so far right wouldn't you cannot ask staff we're we're we're in discussion on each other right. Just discussed don't ask them question what why did you but you're you're asking them a question hey you will have time to do this later on chest for you and move immediate consideration proper all favorite idiot I we're back to reverse cabin also motion to adopt the four point two million and the supplemental appropriation for the letter we clear older favorite idiot it is adopted now let's move on okay you're recognized yes sir we will we will get those supplementals drafted in will be referred to the committee we have a very similar situation with governors letter number two that's gl to when you're up a right hand corner this is a request from multiple agencies and institutions for reappropriation bills to be drafted reappropriation bills allows existing funds to continue to be spent into the next year because as you know we can only appropriate for one year there will be about twenty two bills drafted if you all approve this letter there will be sent here we have motion approved have a motion in a second any discussion all down yesterday you recommend my question simply is when is it appropriate to begin to hold budgets later you could do it right now well I don't want to hold any just get your name I moved the whatever this okay sent your hammer is your question on this reappropriation. Go ahead and take machine on the based on the comment that you just made do each one of these have existing funds the rear appropriation yes these were probably a construction or adams that they have not completed and we are reappropriating that there are already appropriate in this current year they will they will extend over to the next year it's no new money it's just reappropriating money that they're taking span from june thirtieth july on no additional fines okay i'm scanned in the the list required these these all seemed to be for ongoing projects that have not been completed in the previous and we're that is correct thank you are we do have emotional second on this letter. They all in favor say are in your bowls mister anderson with move okay with chairman we have a lot of these that have personal or special language so we're on governor's letter number three it's senate bill twenty three it has personal changes personal. On page five in your packet. Will okay sir thank you on page five in your packet governors that are number four seminar city bill twenty four commerce has personal personnel. On page eleven governors later number five house filled ten seventy eight health department personnel search now yes go to the number six is on page fifteen election commissioners it has personal related send a personnel. Miss chairman were on page nineteen in the packet it's going to let her number seven veterans affairs has personal personnel on page twenty three governments letter number eight senate bill nine prosecutor coordinator his personal changes personal okay so this one does not have either of those it's governors letter number nine it's on page twenty seven. It is for the treasurer who actually dispersing agent for county administrable aid. What the letter request on page twenty seven section two request special revenues to cities be increased in appropriation by twenty five million dollars for minister blade find section four special revenues the counties the appropriation be increased to twenty five million dollars that's the county fine. Section five it changes the title of the appropriation to unanticipated special revenues. And it changes there and as the appropriation to five million dollars and the last one is ten million dollars for unanticipated special revenue cease of offer county in missible a for appropriation authority to pass through funds members is it all passed through these this money is collected locally at the state collection sales facts and stuff in and the revenue is increase all we're doing is passed this back over to the candy societies the this is their money sales tax are doing outstanding matter fact that's what savings it equations only if we have motion most of adopt in a second any discussion all if I was they are in your boss mister anderson like mischairman takes us to page thirty one governors letter number ten house filled ten forty five has special special language. Miss chairman we're on page thirty five on page thirty five of the gl packet. Gone is letter number eleven it's an ability to partner of agriculture this ads it has no special language or personal changes it adds a hundred sixty seven thousand and appropriation for additional grant assistance to fairs and fair related expenses any questions their motion have emotion and a second to adopt the letter. I'll in favor say I in your post miss anderson they paid forty one is going to center number twelve has precision changes personnel. Governors letter number thirteen is on page forty seven this has no special language in no personnel this is part of a correction's community corrections it has a section three in the letter stay operations provides a hundred and twelve thousand hundred and sixty dollars in additional capitality for washer's dryers and kitchen equipment and then the second part of this on page forty seven and fifty is special revenue for five hundred thousand for transitional housing due to an increase in the number of beds that is a special revenue and you just be clear on the adding the washer and dryer kitchen equipment I have a hundred and twenty two thousand you said a hundred twelve issues different man. It is a hundred and twenty two thousand apological alright it is to be clear I any questions we have emotion of emotion and a second any discussion all in favor say I in the opposed mistake okay on page fifty one this is governor's letter fourteen it's an amendment request a house bill ten thirteen department of corrections division of corrections they're asking for two hundred and fifty thousand dollars in capital outlay for the purchase of technology related equipment and they are also asking for another change provide additional overtime appropriation of eat million dollars any questions we have emotion of a motion in the second adopt the letter. Any discussion all in favor say I idiot posed mister anderson governor's letter number fifteen. Some page fifty five department of education this is the revision of higher education this is to add an additional appropriation. To amend their builder add the exceptive so i'm sorry sustainable building maintenance program for state supported institutions in four point five million dollars this is associated with the new item in revenue stabilization proposal any questions mostly to adopt the letter and the second any discussion are in favour they are in the opposed if and when governors that are number sixteen on page fifty nine this is to a man said about thirty three education division of crear technical education they're asking for an increase in appropriation for locational center aid of one point four million dollars to allow the agency to expand allocated general revenue in questions only as. Have a motion and a second many discussion all in favor say are in the opposed. Sherman on page sixty three this is governor's letter number seventeen in a man's house built ten sixty eight part of education offers of early childhood. This combines two appropriations into one in their bill by amending it to make it on federal appropriations for forty two point three million dollars this is for early childhood federal expenses. And it also establishes a new appropriation for child care facility grants for two hundred thousand dollars. And that's still the question is only a. Reviewed in cabinet of question yes sir and kevin may be able to answer this on the combining of the two appropriations to the two two hundred and seventy one million. Is that an increase at all or is that just combining because it shows sixty five and two seventy one so when we combine that is that an actual linkaries or is it not. Give a minute. Okay get katie said yes it is a net increase of forty million and federal appropriations okay thank you any other questions have a motion on these letters of second any discussion all in favor say any opposed. Thank you miss chairman i'll pay sixty seven. This is an amendment to house bill ten forty one department of education public school fine. They have a several changes to their letter they like in this letter they were increased enhanced transportation funding to eight million dollars that's an increase of eight hundred thousand. An increase in the school fords food services line item to seven point six million dollars. That's an increase of six million dollars. In the last two they have a changes to the name of the special education high cost occurrence and they want to increase the line item to seventeen point four million dollars that was an increase of three point five million. And they also want to increase the transportation modernization grants by five million dollars any questions on this letter registered cabinet thank you and there's the kim and may be able to answer this also so on the scorefood services and that high cost in the is that coming from gr is that coming from federal dollars. Okay so the enhanced transportation that's public school fine so that's general revenue the food services is public school fine which is general revenue they're all they're all public school fine okay so it's all GR yeah yeah they would have to use existing GR for these commitment items like thank you. Any other questions. The emotion to adopt the letter and a second many discussion i'll in favor say I get both. Okay we're on page seventy one in your packet this is governor's letter number nineteen department of education this is to increase their educational freedom account appropriation to ninety seven point four million dollars it's an increase to the existing appropriation of forty five point three million dollars in a question. Most of adopt the letter and second any discussion are in favor say I in your post it is adopted mister anderson okay yes sir so we're on page seventy five that's governor center number twenty poverty public safety has positioned change a personnel. On page eighty five governments living in twenty one has position changes personal. Ninety one page governors that are twenty two dhs children and family as personal changes personnel on page ninety seven goes later over twenty three house bill ten seventy seven county ops has both personal and special language special language and personnel. And then that takes us to page one oh nine on page one or nine one governor's letter twenty four this is DHS developmental disability services this adds an additional appropriation to support additional nursing food medical and maintenance costs to human development centers will also allow the division to purchase this or will chair bands additional vehicles to the previous year supply do that supply chain issues. This is their paying account which is very sources and it's three million sixty seven thousand dollars any questions most who adopt the letter and a second any discussion all the favorites they are in your post mister miss chairman were on page one thirteen in your packet going to set a twenty five cent a bill nineteen dhs medical services position changes personal on page on seventeen governors letter twenty six and bill forty five dhs you services position changes personnel on page one twenty one in your packet goes that are twenty seven amendment house bill ten seventy four has personal and special language personnel and special language. Okay mischairman on page one twenty nine on page one twenty nine is covers letter number twenty eight is to a men senate bill forty six this is aeronautics this is a to increase their compete and travel line item by six thousand dollars to support professional development and they are a special revenue funded agency any questions. Most to adopt the latter motion in a second many discussion i'll if I say I in the opposed. As chairman the last one it's a on page one thirty three governments there twenty nine is house fill ten eleven public safety emerging management it has position changes personnel their clear soft members you'll listen up for next week per and review subcommittee will meet to us the morning april sixteenth and eight am and we will meet joint budget. Tuesday morning at man a. Also next week joint budget will meet a window and thursday and man am in different and personnel will meet up on a german of joint budget on wandy and special language romato owns german of joint budget on thursday the eighteenth. And we appreciate the old work we are german.