City, County & Local Affairs Committee - Senate

Meeting of City County local to order. The first item on the agenda today, I think we're going to have Representative Carr from the house. You will go to the end of the table and State your name. You will be recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Joey Carr, District 34. Uh, I'm here to present House Bill 1418, and this is uh to add knives and knife making components to an existing Statute, 14-16-504. Initially this was for a knife makers. We have several knife makers in the state and when they're traveling around to the different shows and things like that. We just don't want different cities. And a local ordinances to be more restrictive than we are for for state regulation. Um, this will just calibrate and be consistent throughout the state. And as time went on, I got to work on this bill. It also is going to be friendly for our skilled tradesmen, the uh carpenters, our electricians, plumbers, and HVAC people that use knives on a daily basis. You know, we don't want them to have to deal with the 3-inch restriction here, a 4-inch restriction there, 2.5 in this one. So this just allows them to not have those concerns. I met with municipal league and they said there is no opposition from, from their perspective. Het committee heard an explanation of the bill and discussion. Fantastic. Um So I, I understand we have some pretty extreme left-leaning cities or any cities restricting knives at all in any way? Not yet, but there are other states in the union that are doing so, uh, right now there are 15 other states that have um have this on the books and so uh just to kind of get ahead of the flow on that, uh, just come up with this idea on this bill. Well, on top of that, we had, we had a crazy in Germany yesterday stabbed by people. On the streets of Germany with a knife, so. You know, states sometimes watch the world news. Any other questions from the committee? She not close for your bill? Yes sir, just want to say uh thank you, thank you for the time. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I would be grateful for a motion to pass and even more so for an approval. Well, I, I apologize. We've got someone here to. We have about Bill We, we don't have any. one of the audience like. All right, Mr. Carr, you reckon that's close. All right, just like to say thank you. I'd be grateful for a motion to pass and even more so for a good good vote. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Any discussion on the motion? We have a motion to pass in a second. All those in favor, all opposed. Congratulations, Representative Carr. Your bill passed. I think we're going to uh Senator Johnson. For the 2nd bill. That's OK. Senator Johnson, if you'll state your name and Your, uh, district. You recognize Mark Johnson, state senator, District 17. Mr. Chairman, I'm here to present Senate Bill 87. Again, there is an amendment and I would be grateful for a motion to adopt the amendment. We have a motion to adopt the amendment. have a motion to adopt the amendment in discussion. On the amendment All the, all in favor of adopting the amendment. All opposed? Art, Senator Johnson, the amendment has been adopted. You are recognized to present the. The bill is amended. Um We had a, I thought very good discussion the other day on Senate Bill 87, I think most members except for Senator Hester, were here, and I've talked to Senator Hester separately to explain, um. This is to uh Make sure that the county planning board is representative of people who actually live under its jurisdiction and guidelines, uh. I discovered that in Pulaski County, the planning board had a majority, almost an extraordinary majority of members who didn't live in the unincorporated area. So in effect, it's a, I'm instead of taxation in fact representation, it's, it's uh uh control without representation. And so the purpose of this bill is to make sure that those people that live in those areas are governed by people that share their situation. There were some legitimate complaints, I think some of y'all heard uh uh Judge Brumley from Saline County that, that, that said it would hurt for something they were doing down there, even though at that point I had already amended the bill where it wouldn't apply to Saline County. Matter of fact, if, if you look on page 2, line 2, it says the county population of 200,000 or more, according to the most recent census that contains 8 municipalities or less, uh, it, it limits this. Method of choosing the board members or to uh Those that are in the uh uh And, and the amendment changed it. It did say that that all the members would have to be living in the unincorporated area. The amendment says that at least 2/3 of the voting members would have to live in the unincorporated area, and that solved the problem that Judge Brumley had. He had a good person that was chairing his board uh in the area he lived in was annexed, so he wants to keep him and I certainly understand that and, and I'm, I'm sure that this issue as counties grow, will be revisited and we'll Be able to do it, but, but I think we need to always do it in the mind of the people, uh, moved to the country, live in the country because that's where they want to live. They don't want uh undue uh planning restrictions, and this would make sure that their voices are always heard. Uh, there was another uh uh thing that was brought up, uh, on page 2 line 18. It talks about a person who knowingly and flagrantly violates the subdivision ordinance requiring plan approve. Platt approval, uh, and, uh, Senator Bryant, especially seemed to take umbrage with the word flagrantly, and I said, well, I don't think that makes much of a difference. Senator. We'll take that out. So we removed uh and flagrantly. So now we just say a person who knowingly violates a subdivision ordinance. In other words, if there's an honest mistake in relating to Platts and anytime you're dealing with land use and boundaries and and those types of things. People can make mistakes. But uh this way there wouldn't be a fine unless it could be proven that they had had knowingly made that change. So, uh, that's, uh, I know that there'll be people that that don't like this and anytime you start telling counties what to do, uh, then we're going to hear from some people that complain about I accept that and but I have been over backwards to try to accommodate what I thought were reasonable, uh, objections that that especially those Voice by Judge Bromley of Saline County and and any similarly situated county, but at this point, this would only apply to Pulaski County, uh, it would certainly could change by the 2030 census, but we have plenty of time to, to come up with something solid and I will pledge to look at that and make sure that the intent that the effect is limited to what the actual intended effect is so with that, I'd be happy to answer any questions. I You any questions. Senator Johnson, I appreciate you trying to work on this. So you say it only applies currently to uh Pulaski County 200,000 and above with 8 or less municipalities. I'm doing the math on my fingers here, which is dangerous, but uh I, I think it still applies in Washington County when you count the the districts there, uh. I mean, the city's there and the district, and I may be counting on unincorporate or a town instead of a city or whatever, but um, uh, in talking with my judge, he still doesn't, he's not comfortable with that, even if it didn't apply because he feels like he's he's, he's very close to that, uh, have you considered just leaving it as as appointed to or changing the percentage ratio or or something along those lines because it, it, it, it. In his case, he says they have currently 2 unfilled positions and they can't fill them even from within the incorporated parts of the city, uh, much less out in the unincorporated parts of the city, and it's a large county, so he's, he says he's got difficulty as it is right now filling those positions, so just your thoughts. Well, well, Senator, first of all, uh, counting the size of Washington, you think you could find some people to serve and, and I appreciate the fact There's not enough good volunteers and, and, and just about anywhere in the state you go. So I empathize with, with your judge on that, although I haven't heard any specific complaint from Washington County, and this was clearly done and I did get the calculator out and do the math and make sure that it would not apply to Benton or Washington County, which are the only two of that population level other than Pulaski that we're we're looking at. And if you look at the, the, the demographics of those of the 33 large counties, uh, everybody thinks, well, Pulaski County is so big, but, you know, we're, we're, we're diverse in that we have, of course, the largest cities and a couple of other big cities, but we have a very vast big uh unincorporated area, uh, uh, Senator English's district goes up, of course, Camp Robinson's in that. I mean, I guess we can't count that because it's, it's, it's pretty sparsely populated and, and the southeast corner of the county is well, but my area in the north west and west part of the county is, is sparsely populated, although it's growing and there's a lot of uh shall we say friction, those who want to go in and do uh uh strip zoning. They want to be able to, to basically absorb the rural nature of the area and urbanize it, uh, this is something that we're real concerned about in our part of the county and hoping that whatever is done and it's the legitimate planning responsibilities of of of the county would be done with the input of people who are actually affected by it and, uh, this, I feel that this particular process should apply to everybody, and that doesn't mean that uh people that live in the city can't be uh sympathetic to the needs and desires of people who live in the country. It just means that that You want people that represent you helping make those decisions, the Little Rock has a planning issue, uh, they don't want the North Little Rock Planning Commission telling them how to do things if if uh North Iraq has a planning issue. They don't want Sherwood Planning Commission telling them how to do things and etc. etc. So the purpose of this is to ensure that there is a proper representation, and I'm, I'm confident, uh, we get this passed, it'll it'll. set a good precedent on making sure there's proper representation, but it would also, I fully acknowledge that we'll probably be seeing some ways to tweak this again and and Senator Petty, I appreciate that and be glad to work with, with your folks up in Northwest Arkansas to do that. Uh, you have a, I know you don't live in Washington County, but you have a, a lot of smaller municipalities in Washington County, matter of fact, I remember when they were all out there by themselves, but now they're even where Senator Hester. lives up the road, it's, it's pretty getting pretty urbanized and it's not out in the country anymore, but that's done gradually, uh, cities do have the extraterritorial planning jurisdiction to make sure that non or unacceptable, unregulated buildings and and and streets and curb and gutter. They're all put in right. We have those protections, but it's also important on the flip side of that coin that the, the rural people and their needs and desires are protected. All right. Is there any other questions from committee members? Seeing none, we have a, we have a gentleman, Mr. Fogelman, to speak against the bill, if you would come forward and recognize yourself. Who you're with, uh, you'll be recognized to to speak, Mr. Fog. Go ahead. Mr. Chair, members, I appreciate y'all having me here today. My name is Adam Fogelman. I'm the Pulaski County Civil attorney, and I'm here on behalf of the county Judges Association, uh, last time you were, you were lucky enough to hear from, from Judge Brumley from Saline County. He couldn't make it, unfortunately this morning. So they, they called in the second chair, um, It While I appreciate the effort of, of my friend Senator Johnson. The, there are a couple of, of legitimate concerns. I think that that remain, uh, one is that it, it calls on a quorum court to be, to act as less than a body. It only gives the voting authority to a certain subset of the members of a quorum court to confirm the appointment by a county judge, and it's already difficult enough as, as you've mentioned to to fill some of the seats in the various appointments in service to to counties. Um, one real life example that I'll provide that is I'm not quite sure how to reconcile this bill, but um, About a year ago, Pulaski County and and uh surrounding counties and the various cities around the Little Rock Air Force Base, um, undertook to create a Little Rock Air Force Base planning board. For the purpose of making sure that we don't have incompatible and undesirable development around that board. It, it leaves the county judge of Pulaski County with only one appointment, and each of the other members to that board, uh, the various cities that touch on it and White County also joined uh, it, it It creates a question of where that person should live rather than what their qualifications are. And, um, and also it creates a question of of whether or not the, the cities would also be subject to the same type of restrictions even though they're, uh, their membership. They didn't hand over any, any actual ordinance authority that remains with the court or with the various cities, but it would create some complexities there that I'm not sure. that we could, we could get past, um, and, and that's too important a board to, to raise those types of questions. We need to make sure that the Little Rock Air Force Base is with us for as long as possible, and that was the reason that that we undertook to to create that board, uh, uh, to prevent undesirable developments in the proximity of Rock Air Force Base, and it's auxiliaries and instrumentalities around it, um. You know, the planning boards or, or they, they undertake serious work, um, but most of what they do is administer codes that are actually adopted by the, the court court. So the actual authority to, to make, uh, planning. Land use decisions created in a framework at the quorum court level and it's just carried out by the planning boards and this, I think this, uh, it, it takes away. Expertise, it would take away from the talent pool and it would limit the uh the quorum Court to act as a body like it should, and with that I'll, I'm here for any questions that you have. Our committee of uh Senator Petty, do you have a question? Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I, I am in full support of what Senator is trying to do here, but do you know the makeup of the unincorporated members versus the incorporated members of Pulaski County. It has, it changes with time, um, we've had as many, I think as 6 of the 9, from unincorporated areas, I think right now we have a majority that are from the, the various cities in in Pulaski County, but we, uh, that doesn't necessarily mean they don't have an interest in the unincorporated area. Uh, I grew up, I didn't grow up in central Arkansas, I grew up in East Arkansas, and even the folks who live in, uh, in the cities they've got business interests. Uh, in unincorporated areas, so I would expect that to be the same here. Follow up, and, and I probably should know this, but have not dealt with a bill, um, do we currently have a provision that requires any kind of representation or could the county judge from, you know, lay County appoint all of them from Little Rock or, you know, some, some city that that he likes more than the others, and it all be all 9. Do we have any guardrails in place? There are none of that. right now, um, and, and so I, I understand and and get your point, uh, but there are very real efforts by every county judge to make sure that the various interests across the county are represented, um, and I, I, I appreciate Senator Johnson earlier for mentioning ETJ's. That's one area of planning around the cities where counties don't get representation. cities are obligated to put somebody on from from an unincorporated area, yet they have total control to be continued there. Yes, sir. Thank you. OK. Any other members have any questions? All right, you are excused, Mr. Fogelman. Anyone else from the audience that wishes to speak for or against this bill. Sing none, uh, Senator Johnson, you recognize close for your bill. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, again, this is a, a narrow issue and is Senator Petty just alluded to this is to be continued anytime we have urbanization, uh, brushing up against the rural areas. We have some friction, and this is an attempt to smooth that and to make sure that people that are affected have representation, uh, uh, your question, uh, was very relevant, Senator Petty and I appreciate my friend uh counselor Fogelman, who's Great person, great Arkansan comes from a great family, but uh uh it is absolutely the county judge's decision. We had an excellent member of that board that lives in Little Italy representing the far northwest corner of the county and when she came up for reappointment, the judge chose to appoint someone from the city instead, so we're, you know, we, we want to make sure we are representing everyone now the original bill said only people live in the unincorporated areas and the compromise that I did in the First Amendment or we changed it or this when we adopted, it's 2/3 of the membership has to live in the unincorporated area. So uh we We, we work it out, we try to make this work, but uh there is a, a major problem brewing, and I think this could help smooth that over and make sure that while we might not like everything that comes out, we know that there's people there representing our interests. So with that, I would be grateful for a good vote. I'm closed. All right. We, uh, uh, this, by the way, this will be a vote on the motion of the bill as amended amended. So, uh, we have a motion to pass the bill as amended. We have a second. Have a second, all those in favor say a all opposed? Bill passes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you committee. Who that man. Senator Sullivan, you are next. That solvent fuel. the district you're from, your name and you'll be recognized. Yeah, Senator Dan Sullivan, District 20. Thank you, Mr. Chair, committee, uh, this bill is pretty simple, uh, right now, it is state law that if you're going to be a library director, you have to take a master's level course approved by the American Library Association, both American Library Association, as we discussed yesterday, is probably one of them, most far left, uh, agencies are in the, I'm sorry. Uh, lobbying groups in the nation. They are not affiliated with any government organization. They are a trade association, uh, and again, the state law says that if you're going to be a library director, you have to have a master's degree in an approved program, there are no approved programs in the state of Arkansas. So no, none of our colleges have an approved program and folks that want that master's degree taken online generally and online program from another state. What this bill does is just give the um Um The board that's over that library, the opportunity to hire someone based on their experience, uh, without having that degree. We do that in many other areas in education. Uh, we allow waivers and other such things to allow people to substitute experience for a degree, and that's what this bill does. I'll be happy to answer any questions. OK, you've heard an explanation of the bill. Are there any questions? Anyone from the audience that wish to speak forward against the bill. All right, Senator Sullivan, you're recognized clothes for you. All right, you're closed, Chairman entertain a motion. We have a motion to pass. Have a second. A discussion on the motion. All those in favor say aye. All opposed? Will pass the Senator Sullivan. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh We done? We have. Centralized, you recognized to present the House bill. 1196. Thank you, Mr. Chair, HB 1196 is from Representative Maddox. We and Terry Rice, State Senator and District 5, Representative Maddox and I both share Montgomery County and again as we've done many, many times, uh, this is where the county has decided to split the sheriff and tax collector, uh, the court, he said, voted unanimous unanimously to do that, so that's all this bill does. be glad to take any questions. Bill, any questions from the committee? And one in the audience wish to speak for or against. Your clothes for your bills since I'm close good vote and I make a motion of do pass. All right, we have a motion to pass. We have a second discussion on the motion. All ones in favor say aye, all opposed. What your bill passes sent to Mr. Chair and committee. That it Ladies and gentlemen, we are finished. No