Insurance & Commerce- House

Thank you colleagues and thank you represented Collins for your indulgence I do have some folks here that today they can answer some questions and I am a poor substitute for Representative Pilkington congratulations on his new baby and as we all get attached to our bills we don't want to let them get behind this is Senate bill one thirty seven and it's an axe to an active basically prevents anybody from discriminating on how you build your home imagine some people want to have all electric some people want to have all gas some people want to have a combination so this allows the home builder or the represent I'm sorry interested it if you have witnesses let's go ahead and want to go ahead and bring them up for it is part of the testimony rather than the for or against all right M.. C.. Mister Thomas if you go ahead and do it yourself. The Thomas Dermott Arkansas Public Service Commission thank you. this basically allows the home owner to decide what type of energy source they want to use if they want to use propane or electric it just lets them decide it doesn't interfere with what the city is doing it just allows them to have some personal choice and with that I'll to entertain questions. K.. Representative Clowney you're recognized thank you Mister chair Mister Thomas's questions probably better directed at you and I know that I saw you in fate though when we open our solar farms few few months ago and I've got some folks that are just a little bit concerned about the impact that this would have on local control can you speak to that a little bit please. I do readers a local control issue but I also think there's an issue of separating control and responsibility that if you want sought to ban natural gas from your community what they're doing for environmental purposes in my view takes options off the table from from the state where we do have responsibility in terms of maintaining gas network now how does maintaining the gas network help in terms of the climate debate with that gas network becomes a green hydrogen network we need that option and since those decisions are made at the state level and those decisions in my view it was a bill federal bill introduced just yesterday there could be severe cost consequences that we have to be on guard for and we need every single option on the table and the value of that gas network and. The way in network works you with this one room where the network in each of us had to pay a hundred dollars to maintain the network. If half the people were gone for the remainder of the cost doubles white white preventing natural gas expansion into cities does is it makes it harder to maintain that network and then if green hydrogen turns out to be the best solution in terms of federal EPA compliance. We don't want to be behind the eight ball on that network thank you. I ask the same question. Representative Alan you're recognized for a question. Thank thank you Mr chairman. I guess this question is directed to you Mr Thomas. In most subdivisions where they build houses that now they have property owners association guidelines and rules and so forth if the guidelines is that you have to use. Natural gas all you have to use electricity costs and some subdivisions they may not have a case and if you have a person that comes in to say that I will use natural gas. So the person that the Belle of the infrastructure. This could create a problem for for that individual. And not as I see it right see you doing is. Prohibiting the city from saying you can't do this each developer and each property owners association maintains their authority to do it the way they want to this doesn't maintain that are mandated developer put in an energy source it just basically tells the city that they can't tell them that and same with the property owners association if they want to bury their power lines or they want to do whatever they want to do it they still can't what this prohibits as a municipal government from taking in energy option off the table. It's not the municipality not if the developer follow Mr yes they do and it is some of the subdivisions now the telling people they can't do certain things because the is this bill going to solve the problem or what they're not doing that now here but this is a movement that started so some of these things do on the coast there's gas bands in California there's Baskin gas bans Massachusetts there's one proposed in Colorado it's basically a bill to keep those kinds of things from happening it's not natural gas specific is it but the the driver is the natural gas issue so what you're saying right now in the state of Arkansas we don't have this problem. Will. Nobody is proposed this summer trying to stay ahead of the problem. But it it's it's easy to say let's be a green city when you don't have a sortie over that. And you don't have to balance cost with that the way that we have to do when we actually make those decisions and in people's Israel if they impair value the gas network and winter turns out to be hydrogen. Green hydrogen coming through the gas network an estimate that's not to people's houses that's the broader transportation network then we'll have a problem we want to be proactive with respect to the problem that we might have But there isn't a to your directly to your question there isn't a proposal now that I'm aware that I appreciate honesty. Thank you Representative Richardson you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair of so this bill specifically will of. Keep cities from being focused on renewable energy or leaning towards the ability to be. Focused on renewable energy it will folk it will prohibit them from taking fuel sources off the table now in terms of their own generation both as a city government which is a large customer. Or municipal utility. They encourage them to do that the the the project that represent county referred to is a project that we approved we want the city's. To do those kind of things we just don't want them to take options off the table for the broader system in their zeal to do that. Thank you represent a board you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair representa LUNDSTRUM all I'll be brief but I just wanna make sure I understand this so when we talk about local control that's closest to the to the sources which really true local controls down to the individual so my interpretation and and if I'm wrong I want you to correct me is this preserves the market and make sure that entities above the consumer don't make choices forces that is what is decisively correct thank you. K. thank you for that of members any additional questions. Okay. If not we are at that point we can entertain. Speakers for or against the bill so will star we've already had the for presentation anyone in the audience who wish to speak against the bill. I'm sorry. Represented void one sarco okay. okay you'll make a motion okay anyone who wish speak you speak for the bill. Represented Lundstrum you four okay fuel identify yourself for the record. These are I think my Mascolo M. salute Charlie steaks and I represent black hills energy up in the northwest Arkansas corridor all the way in the northeast Arkansas which ones that were supportive of this bill and there're to the answer of local control this is a little bit different when you think you're talking about plastic bag bans or those type of local control issues because if people and have faith bill decides is for consumers in impacts consumers in Elkins and ing impacts ratepayers in Springdale and Tontitown and everywhere else across the broad system so you know we're all we're asking is that consumers are able to make that choice and not the city as a whole so with that I'll take any questions members are of any questions. Okay thank you Mr. Okay. What. Is there anyone that have already called for the against but I'll call again anyone against barely not so represent Lundstrum you are welcome to close for your bill thank you. I offered to run this for represented Pilkington because I felt it was born portent for individuals all to make a choice when they choose their energy I love that there a lot of different choices now in home building you can choose gas you can choose electric you can make your home is energy secure and surface as efficient as you possibly can so and the more we have the more options we have the better it's an all state nowadays so and I love these are the more opportunities we have the better with that I'll close. K. and recommend to pass. Would you just be represented poured to the passage is quick. Okay members we do have a do pass motion on the floor and we're open for any discussion that you might wanna have. Seeing no discussion all those in favor of the motion to pass signify by saying aye. Any opposed say no there are none congratulations pastor bill Collings. Representative Collins we will take your bill now. Thank you. Committee appreciate you taking time force today this is a real straightforward bill Very short and simple fourteen fifty five came to senator Ballenger and me from the Arkansas Bar Association all it does is it changes the term letter of attorney which is outdated and seldom used and appears nowhere else in code to the more common but same meaning power of attorney so is it really substantive changes more of a technical correction second impact anyone's rates anyone's pertaining because the terms mean the same thing the the reason I want that that language in the value of it is primarily in legal research if you're trying to search in the electronic legal research resource and you are looking for power of attorney these two sections it wouldn't show up so that was I want to propose it and I think it should help attorneys better serve their clients there are some other changes in here those are all just be are updating and modernizing language clean up so there any questions I'm happy to take them and I there's someone also from the Bar Association who can answer detailed questions about the history and and evolution if you're interested in that okay members are there any questions. There did not seem to okay represent a balance. The motion at the proper time okay thank you. Sir anyone in the audience who wishes to speak against the bill. A win for the bill and other bar association if necessary. Okay. Of seeing no questions I'll entertain your motion represented Alan do pass I have a motion to do pass on the floor any discussion by members. Seeing none we have a motion skews me I want to give you the option to close thank you gonna close that bridge it okay thank you we appreciate technical change bills. A short sweet we have a motion on the floor of I represent of Alan do pass all those in favor of the motion signify by saying aye. Any opposed say no and we have done thank you very much thank you. Representative Bentley. I have a bill and you have an amendment. To be taken up first yes Sir thank you chairman thank you committees of pleasure to be for the insurance committee for the first time this year I have a bill today I would briefly go the amendment as where I worked with both ran the insurance department we make an amendment that To satisfy some questions of actually colleagues on the other end been working on this bill for number of weeks so we work with the insurance department to get an amendment I think make the bill better FOR everyone clears up some clarifications for those I had questions we worked out just to make sure that the Agent the. Agencies that were given the ability to in the membership of groups that we're giving them the ability to offer health benefits are sound financially and that they're it can we can be assured that anyone had signs up to be a member of this committee will not be sadly you know assign the cast have find themselves they can struggle event and the money's not there to pay for it that's really what this is about to make sure their sound financially and that we clearly define what these groups are and that's what the amendments about okay so a technical questions on the amendment members you've heard a description of the amendment are there any questions. On the amendment is there a motion on the amendment. Representative Evans. Motion to accept the amendment. Any discussion members all those in favor accepting the amendment on House Bill Fortino for signify by saying aye. Any opposed no so represented Bentley you're welcome now to you if you have anyone who is testifying with you you might have them come to the table at this time uh assist me to okay so you're recognized to present the bill as amended thank you because anybody knows me very long you know the passion about improving the health we have in our state improving the health specially in rural Arkansas that that is my district so for many of my constituents their insurance premiums for family for a run about fourteen hundred dollars a month and even with that fourteen hundred dollar premium they're still having to pay a three hundred four hundred five hundred dollar deductible and for family that's struggling trying take care of their families needs unfortunately all the money's going to their premium each month and then they don't have the money left over to take care primary care to take care of those visits so they need to to get good health care and many of them put off a visit to the doctor that they should do because I don't have the money left over to do it so that way to things get serious and so that's unfortunately a very real thing going on in my committee when I go out there and visit with my constituents they're just so frustrated that they can't even afford the premiums of insurance and have money left over to take care of their positions effect all their money's going to pay for their premiums this nothing left over to take care of going to see the doctor like they need to to stay healthy so I'm sure many of you wherever horrible statistics on the state reported the nation on our help that we need to do absolutely everything we can to improve the health of our of our constituents so that's really what's my heart is on this bill is what can we do you will have to add another Avenue I know that many of you probably wear of the Christian health care ministries another Avenue and this is just kind of adding another group to what they're doing so much I have been on the Christian health care ministries my children have been because of so much more reason for them effect of or Kansas our families could save ten thousand dollars a year going to a plan like this a great and improvement so they would have the money left over to do those preventive measures that they need to do to get that screenings that they need to do. You for the cancer screenings in those kind of things that that that need to take place in maybe some of them are really big I wanted to do vitamins and different things that they think of really improving their health so this will allow them more money in their pockets to take care of those things so This bills impasse in other states and of groups of taking advantage of it are like farm bureau in here hopefully farm bureau represent like cattlemen's association those who have a large group of members is not gonna be some small group because we made it very clear working with a commissioner ran as is really help me on this to make sure that we. Of groups that are sound that have a large membership they can afford to do this and so this really was about the other states that have done it I've seen some great success and helped rule or Kansans to provide another option for them NO was mandating anybody do this is just giving another tool and to check another tool one two should hopefully make our Kansans healthier and that's really what it's about today and if you have any questions we have to take those. Members Representative Ferguson. Yeah and I members I want to know I mean a total area of the time I've a really objected to this bill of these groups. Courtesy Chile have sprung the to circumvent and and provide insurance outside of insurance department regulations and that's my concern there been some really bad actors in this vital area I mean we've had numerous meetings at the National Council of insurance legislators in the I guess essentially are worthless policies in most cases I mean they're fine if you're healthy and it's preventive services but. You know there's numerous cases when people get ready and they had really have to be hospitalized and have a difficult situation I might have a thousand dollars a maximum that will touch a day in the hospital there's and I think people buy these thanking their insurance and not realizing all the ramifications I guess my question for you at I don't know why which these days are growing again they're going to be the same problem they already are much like the PBM situation where they're working in the wild west outside of the regulation and protection for consumers so. Tell me why we should not have these regulated by the insurance department actually look at the end of the bill we are making sure the insurance department know that they are financially sound and they have the money there to care for its why what was that's why the insurance department is neutral on this because I worked with them to make sure there are some parameters there some guards some guardrails if you want to say so I I think that we should all be I have a look at what's happened in other states in Indiana and Kansas Kentucky and Tennessee with a passes for farm bureau and other folks that have had have had big success in those I'm not afraid and those the ones that I've looked at them to specifically deal with this and not I'm not sure that on the referring to but I specifically look at information on this bill what's been done in other states and how they have found a successful and I know in my own experience with Christian health care ministries I did. Much of my daughter's it delivered babies with that they put up I've had great success with the so I think to say that maybe some or I mean I can't we don't live in a perfect world right I can't I can't do a perfect bill make sure was going to be a waiver let every bad actor I am including the insurance department this so we can get some make sure they're financially sound and there's also disclaimer for those to know is written the bill that have have a disclaimer out there but I think we can look at those those are groups like farm near or Canada's association that really care about the folks going to make sure its sound and that's the whole reason behind to make sure they're groups that have been around for awhile I understand that the members are are part of in the members on the board to making sure that something that's going to be sounds I think it's a different thing because it's based on you that are members of a large group and that group could have input I know but apart from here for a long time so those kind of groups are great input on the grassroots and I think they come out they're trying to do something to hurt their members it's got hurt their organization in the long run if they come over this you know with a fly by night plan is not going to help their members in the committee so that that's one that I don't and I appreciate you do ever we've worked so well my things and I and I appreciate you let me know this morning and sometimes we agree to divest disagree but I think I would rather have this as have nothing and unfortunately some of them are just bankrupt in and out on the not doing anything so that that's the group I'm trying to him. Yes we will do that I'm gonna request Mr rand if you would come to the table to give us clarification. At the rand Insurance Department These the recent amendment allows insurance department to regulate the financial solvency or financial affairs of these organizations I tend to do a rule to address some of these issues is and perhaps some of the market conduct issues other words what it what it can or can't do out in the market place and so it will be there is going to roll it's going to rely upon a rule that we're going to do so and we we do understand a Representative Ferguson's concerns these things need to be solvent to pay claims for providers to pay claims for consumers we want to make sure that the consumer and provider not left holding the bag if one of these becomes financially impaired or because they have cash problems and so I envision a rule to require some cash reserves to be in place that are not going to be touched and some stop loss insurance and some other things to make sure that their risk mitigation factors that we're going to apply to these to make sure that they're not running around the state selling health insurance it's not able to pay claims but also to share. The answer some listener question okay. You're recognized for follow up at yeah I mean I mean what does financial solvency meaning that they're still coming not subject to other insurance requirements and essentially they're selling insurance they're just circumventing the law did not call it insurance they're not going to be subject to any insurance mandates or the state guaranteed fun I mean tell me tell us the things that they're not going to have to do that are required of insurance for consumer protections because when people buy these most people don't even know what they're buying these would not be subject to the guarantee fund in case they fail they will not be subject to the state insurance code mandates you know and state insurance code we mandate health insurance to cover mastectomies and colorectal NO all of those mandates that are in the insurance code would not apply to these entities okay so the state mandates would not apply it would be now The Leslie voluntarily provide themselves in the plan I mean I'm not interest there's a possibility that these organizations can voluntarily comply with the state mandates but as it is right now they're not required to. And of course the argument is that is trying to save money and costs for their members. Thank you Representative brown I believe you have a question. Thank you Mr chair I believe when I was reading it the Bill Gates said They're at. These association health. Providers I'm not may not be used in the the language of the bill but. The entities which Representative Bentley is speaking would be eligible for re insurance coverage. So that would help make them secure their actuarial. Soundness yes your stop loss. Okay and Just one follow up yes you're recognized I would as. That without these mandates that. For instance. Me and covered under this program would not have to pay for maternity care coverage like they might have to pay with an insurance company that's correct thank you to. Represent the board you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair I'll be quick government of we're citizen legislature and I'm a pharmacist mother job so at as their how how would the prescription component of this work is their prescription component and if so you have any idea how that might work thank you. I'm sorry does some I'm not gonna act like I have the expertise on the prescription I'm sure it's a. Like anything else OB we opt in opt on to some prescription plan something that like with many things is option we want to give choices for consumers so they can opt in or opt out so that I would contain this like with maternity like right now with this section essential healthcare benefits as a make some so how our insurance rates so high is because we have to offer things with we need them or want them or not this is gives flexibility gives choice this is consumers a little bit of of a power to choose what they want what they don't want it right now under insurance plans I can't it's either all or nothing that's where with our regulations make it all or nothing you pay this plan to pay this amount with you needed or the donated this just gives flexibility allows you to choose what you do and don't want maybe I don't right now take any prescriptions I'm a healthy person and right I don't I have absolutely no prescriptions that I take my mother lived in ninety didn't take any prescriptions so if you're not taking the prescriptions and you get a cheaper plan I would say let's do it and cover those things that are essential to folks is give people choice all this about choices consumers having flexibility allowing them to do it of some of that fits their family better than something else and I'm not I'm not by any means trying to hurt people us we might that the disclaimer in there to let them know I know that formula they've done it in other states have been very clear and making sure what's covered and what's not covered for folks so anyway this unit were made on that so. Representative fees says fine. Okay Representative Kenneth Ferguson. Thank you Mr. Represented Bentley maybe you Listerine can answer this question just curious so I've had a number of constituents issues with insurance companies not paying the city claims with the insurance department has been able to resolve those issues for my constituents under this bill if one of these entities decided not to pay up the city claimed. What a forty under this bill the insurance department has to address that issue. I thank Rick Rick represented what we what I intend to do in a rules the amendment Amendment allows me to do a rule and I intend to address that issue in a rule and the answer to that would be is that you would still be able to call the insurance commissioner because a complaint because the claim wasn't paid so but I intend to develop that in a rule for these programs. And also on what it does okay represent for a visit if it's something from your sins that your membership of you have local people that you can go and talk to that right there in your committee is that you know to work with your help fight for that so I think it's really more of you have more access to people that can help you with that so that makes sense to you. You get one more follow up if I may you're recognized so in one case I had a constituent with the insurance company change the premium. Without any notice. And refused to pay the claim and there was something else they did the insurance department was able to look at the regulations and determined that they had violated a state law and then and this was with a nonprofit and then that insurance company. When I had paid the claim and and gave the proper notice about the changing of the premium. But this was after the fact that the insurance department came in and said Hey you validated XYZ state law so Edison distancing and mystery and that does this bill and you said you could address that with the rules yes Sir. Yesterday amendment that is in front of you allows interest commissioner to issue rules to implement this chapter or section and that to me gives me authority to also address consumer complaints and claims not being paid in those issues that you're describing a rule but it's not in the actual legislation in front of you but it would be in a rule that I would deduct that we would promulgate. Thank you Mr thank you representa flowers you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair I have to say that I feel torn because I've seen how and seen programs profiling these types of back can't calling policies because that insurance but coverage and resources. And then I've seen examples. And there are examples of how they have not worked in the health arena. And I came in feeling positive and as soon as Representative Ferguson Deborah Ferguson said PBM it sent a jolt through my body. Because while I know that we can't. Seek perfection in these bills. When the product that is being insured is insurance for health care that changes the specter of what it means to for us to protect our citizenry and I guess this would be a question for both of you are here. What we're trying to do to sort of loosened the reins of regulation. to keep control of cost and to make sure that there's access for this but. What is that what. What is it mean for the consumer to make this a rule. Verses a law. You know I because I heard what you said but the in terms of protecting people consumers who are going to part with their money and expect. Coverage and a return on something as precious and as serious as health services. You know why are why are we skipping. The ultimate protection for consumers as it relates to health and. As we move forward because I'm not concerned about what farm bureau would do I'm clear or cattlemen's association. But for smaller but large enough nonprofits where we don't have that leverages legislators to pick up the phone and call and you're saying that there would be a rule versus the law what does that really mean for consumers with some of the examples that we just heard from Representative Ken Ferguson. I think a rule gives us a lot of flexibility to address consumer protections you know it it's easier for us to do in a rule then try to figure all this out one bill so I think that's the reason why she's provide us with a rule making authority so I mean again I intend to address consumer protection in this rule I just don't know what it says because I haven't started writing it yet. Can I say something as well you know it's we in the in the law we've you know narrowed it to groups that I have do they have a membership so we're trying to make it to which is not someone a fly by night group that says it was set up in in the law to make it narrow and I didn't want this to Senate which has worked very well in Tennessee and Kansas and Indiana and the places that they have set up already so I'd you know in the law they have to be large groups that are going to have enough membership even want to consider this I don't want it to be easy and a and is anybody to set up that was the whole the whole point of it so it again we I just want Arkansas our constituents to have some chances to get. Something to actually improve their health and for what works for one person not going to work for another and what time of your life when you're younger it may work great and not in another time if that makes sense to the minute you know when they're young they're healthy and things are going well is a chance to to have some might actually get some preventive care and take care of their kids and to see so many of my constituents so frustrated that their insurance premiums are so stinking high for things that they don't need they can't do any preventive care and do those things I really want to today to make the page their families healthier so in you know and so many areas I get fresher because we try to regulate everything so tightly that we've just regulate things so that makes it so costly for insurance companies that they can't. People cannot afford it so I mean I think we can see in our state let's I'm just trying to get some flexibility we're not meeting anybody sign this up there's some I think we're restrictions in this lot to make sure she's not a fly by night group it is somebody with large of membership like cattlemen's or for beer and those they can really help some of my rule of concessions that don't have those opportunities so does that help you live by just in the law I want to make sure but it was some flexibility because if we make it so rigid in the law then we're right back to where we were with insurance departments so I try to make it flexible if we could make you know we consumer driven by a membership group that have large numbers of members to make to make give some guardrails there and some safety that's why we make sure they have financially sound to me is most important thing so quick follow up here you're recognized so this could be for either or both of you so as it would work out with. The rules and rags which is still regulation. you how would that look different from what we have for the regulated insurance companies for a consumer with a complaint because I hear you saying. That you would address that but does that mean that the insurance department would then have authority to say pay that claim for refund that money or notify this consumer of that based upon the contract you have with them. And and I guess. All this up there thank you yes I could put in the rule that the organizations have to comply with rule forty three of the Arkansas Insurance Department to rules that governs claims I can that we can add consumer protections that are equivalent to water a with health insurance companies so I mean again I haven't sat down to do the rule yet but I am aware and conscientious of the fact that there needs to be consumer protection requirements in the rule to as well as financial solvency requirements. Thank you by share Maddox you're recognized. Thank you Mister chair Mister ran to state a couple questions for you I'm to be completely Frank I'm just I'm just not really that familiar with these plans Frank Oliver ever really heard I've heard a lot of advertisements for them and I've never really delved deep into them there's been numerous references that other states have implemented these I'd like to hear what you know about that has that been successful have there been issues have you looked at that I'd like to hear from you on then they'll have one follow these secular sharing association plans are are proliferating around the country right now they have been the subject of concern by the national association of insurance commissioners because they're not regulated like a normal insurance companies so I think some of the comments from represented Ferguson and others that have already been made already suppressed by many regulators around the country related to these association plans and so the answer is is there proliferating around other states and it's again I think of the into the reason why as people want alternative to traditional health insurance which is become so expensive and they're trying to find alternative ways to to find different avenues to get coverage and some of which may not be is as fertile or as as comprehensive as traditional health insurance and so it's a matter of cost so thank represented Bentley cited Tennessee has approved similar provision is this Indiana does I think Nebraska quite a few other states have these provisions. So far have a follow up so it just in your opinion I can attest your personal opinion have they been successful it is it's a successful endeavor in these other states on sales on secular on Christian ministry plans pretty much have been without major problems so far we have not seen sector sharing issues yet so the answer is I have not seen widespread fraud but there may be examples around the country that have. Yes follow this will be my last one thank you so again If it gets there to the rulemaking can there be some real the stands for lack of a better term disclosures to what may be the risk are and what they're purchasing and what they're not purchasing because President Ferguson made some very valid points and you know our expertise is much greater than mine on this but if we do this a certain people know what they're getting what they're not getting I think if you look at your amendment because Representative Bentley also added a notice provision did basically notifying persons that this is not health insurance but in the rule that I do I can expand upon that notice to make sure that it's pretty bold and much more blurred out so that people understand enough on health insurance. And I just wanted to get clarification on that sometimes and we hear the word proliferation there's some that have a negative connotation that you're just saying that there's an increase correct okay thank you this will clarify that represented brown. Thank you Mr chair Just to make a couple clarifying statements insurance is not a mandate of our constitution. and. I having been a member of the participant in a member organization almost my entire life. It's my understanding has been my experience that member organizations of a very strong voice in how their organizations are run. And I want to clarify something that Representative Bentley said. Basically I think you said that the membership pool to one of these organs these plans would have to be sufficient to be able to provide the top of benefits they want to offer for is that not correct correct and then that would lend itself to this actuarial of. Sounds soundness. Thank you thank you Representative Ferguson I mean the skews me Richardson. Thank you Mr chase I'm just make sure I understand this piece because I understand the what you're doing in the bill and then you're saying that you can write rules to kind of strength in what this is dead but is that going to impact the flexibility that you're trying to do in the bill if he's has the ability to write rules to to make you know making more strange I'm just I'm just one and if those are or are competing against one another I appreciate your question and I tried and I tried to we want I want to constituents and to feel like they're safe okay so we need some safety measures in there and so thankfully we have rule review right as so as a body we can review rules that are made sure that there we can come again to say well this is not my legislative intent I want you to go and change those rules so we can look at the rules and say that's not what my legislative intent was and and ask them to redo the rule so with your oversight right whether oversight now see we have a look at those rose that's why if you look at me about my putting the last word I just made this is amendment amendment to my amendment which was been amended about five times more hello I put in here the very last line that make them the least restrictive requirements by the rule making some trying to see do do what you need to do with the lease restrictions possible to make sure we are sound financially but I make them so restrictive that were right back in the same boat we are with insurance companies so I'd you know it is it is a balancing act right we wanna make sure we have we are sound financially we want some flexibility because again I mansion after paper maternal insurance which is very high right so we're trying to make sure that we have some flexibility we have some accountability and as legislators will have to come in the and look at the rules make sure there what we intend with this legislation. That answers your question represent thank you. Represent Richardson you have a follow up okay represent of would. Thank you Mr chairman I have a question for Mr and M. for Representative Bentley represented Bentley so is understand the fundamental deal here is to give an option to consumers this is the reduced cost yes I understand these policies of sometimes it. Policy and that that that's what it's about and your amendment is already did the really is you don't use the word but it gives a buyer be ware notice relative to what they're getting into correct okay. One more follow up to reckon Mr rent of. How how many how many complaints do you all handle money line insurance policies that you have total size so how many do we have to do with me do we get on a daily basis will whichever one you have the number for I don't have any numbers my guess is we probably get I'm guessing twenty five to thirty complaint today for the day all the money line on traditional health insurance get complaints of yes Sir thank you Mr chairman thank you just rent Representative ray. Thank you Mr chairman represent Bentley I apologize I joined in the middle of this so if this question is redundant you've already covered it I apologize but I understand there there may be concern about sort of fly by night groups or groups that are just assembled for the purpose of doing this you're my understanding is your bill limits these benefits to groups that have dues paying members that exist for for another reason for it and that have existed for at least two years is that correct correct okay thank you can thank you represented Ferguson Deborah Ferguson you're back in the queue. Thanks I I may not have I don't agree with both rain that said these companies I haven't had problems that and Leary as one of the biggest actors in this space in there they went to prison for securities fraud I mean there is some real problems with these companies that sell these policies. At I mean wind jump through all these hoops and create this financial solvency rulemaking why not just put him under the insurance department I mean make it simple. That that's for but. I'm I'm not ride the bill so I think they need to have some regulation I agree with you a hundred percent on that and again we'll try to do the best we can rule to protect for financial solvency for consumer protection. Okay Representative Alan. Follow. Is there a reason why. They shouldn't be put on those state regulations like any other insurance company well if if they don't get an exemption from the Arkansas insurance code and they would be cease and desist it right now so they're not they're not permitted to exist without a license from the insurance department what this bill is doing is carving them out of the insurance code. Okay. Well. Just from follow. Yes this just from what I'm able to pick up the day all information discussion it appears that I'm not saying that it's true it appears that the budget they may be trying to circumvent the system to come into the state of Arkansas and not the subject to the regulations like any of the insurance company and let me give you an example. A friend of mine over the Tennessee area of the victim. Of this he thought he had one thing and then when he was diagnosed with cancer. they told him that it was not covered. On the policy. And he had paid his money in four years so and he was not able to get his money back and I'm not saying that this will happen which shall be ill represent Bentley but we have to be aware that the council and when a person has paid that money and in the opinion on that will make it safer. And if it's not there. Then it creates a hardship. For the family. Because one he can't get coverage two is for market on back. And at the end of the phone his wife with where you at the lowest moment in his life he he's he's fighting to stay alive in these five. For the benefits so a bill like this really. concerns me and I think you intentions are are great but I think that this bill might have a few more unintended consequences then we are where. And I appreciate that represent about appreciate appreciate we've come from we want you know. We don't live in a perfect world right and I can't I can't them out for if I could regulate. If I could regulate things like no more car crashes I'm sorry but it had a real tragedy my district if I could regulate things like no more car crashes. I would do that if a regulate no more bad actors I would do that. But unfortunately we can't but I know my constituents or struggling. Wherever I go my district I'm on their you know mother with the folks listening very and they're just so frustrated when I have insurance payment so stink and I at the end of the day they can't even pay and go see a doctor visit on the money left over that month to go and see the physician when they want to so I understand that I think we can do as legislation I'm sorry I'm just that that that that regular fresh in my mind. If we can do something to help our constituents and it doesn't have to be the whole length of their live right for certain time they have young kids at home they're pretty healthy they're taking care of themselves if they can have a decent amount of money that's going to cover healthcare and. For goodness sakes costs are getting crazy are they out there is ridiculous so we can give some flexibility that's all I'm trying to do is. Work with organizations that are out there that are with the folks to have a grassroots like from your summer that has grass roots stuff out there okay they're solid. Am I am I going to guarantee we won't have a problem in the state now I wish I could but I'm trying to get some flexibility out there for people that really are struggling are constituents or struggle with with young families is ridiculously high what they have to pay each month and I can tell you when I had yes I was working even at at Baptist and had and that children's I agreed insurance but I had a five hundred dollar deductible I never met that deductible never mind that the doctors I'm paying insurance premiums every month for my family and still paying for to see the doctor all the time I don't think ever get anything paid for so it's it's frustrating for families you know the trying to make ends meet and the trying to get ahead and so I'm just I'm not trying to throw us into the wall with and hurt anybody I'm certainly not trying to do that but I'm trying to give some options trying to make very transparent so when they sign up for these they were told this is not insurance and is the same thing with Christian health care ministries or any of those they're very up front on it. That this is not insurance it is a little bit different so limited difference to deal with but once you get used to it you could save a whole lot of money in our families can save a lot of money and still get good healthcare coverage and that's what I'm after so I appreciate your your concerns for it. Mistranslated S. Q. question of using the scenario that represented balances presented of the twenty five on average twenty five complaints a day many of them sometimes to come down to insurance that does not cover a certain health incident correct that's correct we have a lot of complaints on a reciprocal hands that we can't regulate we have a lot of complaints to come in on various Organizations that we do not regulate that we have to do for out to other state agencies to do okay these are situations where people paid in premiums they had full expectation that if they were to get ill that they were gonna be covered but there are and frankly it's the vagaries of insurances that you give to read the for the fine print true okay also in terms of rule making that rulemaking authority is rule of law you have enforcement mechanisms that are whether we put it into a bill or not if it is if we have given you rulemaking authority under this bill which is what the amendment does it has the rule of law to and for you to enforce that's correct okay thank you represented brown. I think I'm not gonna ask the question thank you. Okay thank you. Representative. Penzo skews me I'm sorry I've got represented board ahead of you. Thank you Mr chair I'll try to be quick here I'm just thinking through this and and and listening in front and I'm coming at it from a little different angle now and so I keep hearing you say you want to help our Kansans because insurance premiums are so high and and I'm not study this but I'm just thinking. By offering it putting another option in the market might of consequence of that be at some point with more competition lower insurance premiums do you have any insight on that or or thought. I would say it's happened in other states represented board with which in and every area we have competition right we have we have lower rates and that this was about offering some competition thank you. Okay represented Penzo. Thank you Mr of. Representative Allen brought up the cancer kind of made me think back to my childhood when my mom was diagnosed with the breast cancer she she had a cancer rider on her insurance policy locally it's my understanding that. Just standard insurance may not cover. Cancers that an accurate statement I know that there was thanks to those kids are really member the dynamic but I know that she did have a cancer supplement on our policy which that helps but who does but most policies will cover cancer within yes okay. Can thank you. Representatives of members anymore may have questions. Okay if if not we will take any testimony from the audience is there anyone here to speak against the bill. Anyone who wishes to speak for the bill. I think we have someone signed up missed Mister James did you want to. Okay thank you very much Sir I appreciate your help. Okay I don't see any any questions so Representative seasoning represented brown you have a question. Motion okay. All right of Representative we have faster questions Representative Bentley you are free to close for your bill colleagues I appreciate you taking the time to hear me today and to bring this bill again assist about consumer choice and and trying to help folks get better health care coverage for what they want and just give a I think we get good protections in here appreciate the help for the insurance department on that not trying to do things to heard our constituents but to help them and hopefully we can get some competition out there everybody win in the end so with that I would appreciate a good vote today thank you for your time thank you represented brown you have a motion. Okay members we have a motion to pass on the floor and any discussion. I'm going to go with the force and against so anyone wish to speak for the bill on the committee. Represented Lundstrum. I think it's important to have competition thank you represented Bentley for bringing this up competition makes us all better so I'm all for it thank you thank you. Up against Representative Deborah Ferguson. Thank you at I just think there a lot of better ways to provide less expensive ventures we've already approved short term health plans associated health plans and other products that are actually regulated by the insurance department it to to both brands point of they do get compliance and I do handle them and take care of them he mentioned a risa that we don't have control over but a recent is controlled by the federal government by the department of labor they serve the big selfinsured like Walmart and those so every other product he's talking about taking complaints from our regulated by either the federal government or the insurance agencies and I just think these are really bad products because they may be fine if you're very healthy and for preventive care but if you get sick there they are not good policies. Surname anyone on the committee that would like to speak for the bill represent of would. I understand the concern. Relative to consumer is. In protecting the consumer. But this is so much better than what we've got now relative to the insurance department being able to examine the solvency which is a key factor to me in the any insurance of it is that solvent they have enough reserves to cover their claims and then time thing and then in addition to that is this buyer be wear clothes with just the laser shall look you're taking a chance with you by this the dispersion but if there was a time that we needed option and we need competitiveness it's in the it's in the healthcare industry and at the end this bill in my opinion of Ford to the so that the consumer has an option they make a choice they're gonna be protected to some degree but better than what they are now relative to the claim is not being fun but is the insurance department stated they have twenty five to thirty claims a day alone the. The the main line insurers so this is nothing new is just actually extension in modern estimation more consumer protection to our to our citizens relative to these and I've I've heard of all and I'm familiar with the those that are Christian based the other was on the loose for me with I have heard of no problems of from anyone who who has it but I face the same thing represented bill it does my folks are hurting. And they need the relief anywhere they can get and so far I think this legislature has as head of tremendous outreach to say Hey we hear you and we're doing our best thank you Mr chairman thank you in any member wish to speak against the bill the console Representative fielding's hand. Thank you Mr chairman of represent bill I I do thank you have a great intention. But. This scares me. At thank you once we pass a bill like this. Senate we put in a hole the horse before the cart Democrat come amid rules to try to govern that. That I think it's a good bill and a bad bill at the same time so how did you fix a good bill and a bad deal I mean that that's that's what I think it did it to me. That all Intel so I'd be a vote against this bill thank you. K.. Anyone we speak for the bill represented Penzo. Thank you Mr I just wanted to make a comment that we have a lot of uninsured or cans and this is the a good opportunity to provide another option for them to become insured that that's a concern to me and if the insurance if they're going to if they're going to put regulations in place to to look over these entities I don't see how we can vote against something that's going to provide insurance to our Kansans it don't currently have insurance so I mean a I think it's a great option and I will be in support of it thank you okay in which speak against the bill. Representa flowers. Thank you. You Mr I have to say that. When I came here I had planned to hear this out and was on the side of order for the bill and and I shared earlier when I heard. DVM it may be think about how PBMs started out being a entity that helped employers and insurance companies. Save money. But they were not regulated they grew according to how they wanted to. They used contracts to say that they couldn't be regulated and took losses all the way up to the Supreme Court while people have suffered tremendously. And. You know one of the things that I've. Become passionate about in that space. Is about these unintended consequences that resulted from what was a good idea and people don't even realize that we have PBMs. Operating in the state today that aren't among the big three that do what they're supposed to do that help insurance companies employers save money. And I think that in this case we would have organizations that do what they're supposed to do. But that doesn't you know we can't insure that there are no bad actors but what we can do is put controls and protocols in place so that if there are bad actors that we can spot them early and that there can be accountability and that's kind of the I think the necessary evil or whatever you know of of regulation and so I think that the this is a great bill in terms of providing options. But to Representative feelings point. You know the challenge is how do we protect our people in the process of helping them get access and while you know when you're looking at do you. Rely allows a fair you know when you're getting a used car are you do you get a new car and get get a warranty and get all these things that the certainty that usually comes with a new car. This is though not a car this is people's healthcare this is in many instances life and death and I just feel very strongly that we have to tread a lot more carefully and lightly to get to as close to perfect as we can when it comes to people's health care and for that reason I'll be voting no today thank you thank you. Representative board you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair I will be voting yes today. I heard a lot about pharmacy benefit managers or PBMs today and and I'd like to think that we've learned a lot from that both at the state level and national level part of the challenge with pharmacy benefit managers is they would work governed if they claim to risa at which is a federal thing the state could have anything to do with it because I'd say that's an aggressive Polish that's interest about location turns out that there are some things the state can do but I think that the insurance commission I've got faith that they see this they know this they've learned from this and they're going to be watching they're going to pay having discussions our constituents are going to reach out to us if their problems and I think that offering some additional competition in this. Market is a good thing. Thank you represent Boyd anyone and wish to speak against the bill. Well I I will speak in favor of the bill We we come up against situations all the time that have unintended consequences yeah we were told when the affordable Care Act. Past. Where was presented to Congress since two thousand pages you have to pass the bill to know what's in it. And Arkansas took a bold step in offering Arkansas Works of a offering private insurance to those in the Medicaid expansion group and. Those who had their own insurance were told that their rates were not going to go up well they have. As an unintended consequence it's probably was a story. That's what dad used to refer to allies condiments story And you know sometimes we also want to to try and paint a wide promotion use terms like compare this to PBMs it's not at all the comparison to PBMs and I think that we we don't do service to something that can create competition that's the problem with why insurance rates kept going up for those of us who've been paying premiums. Is because there was an adequate competition this gives competition that is going to be regulated rulemaking authority is going to be rule of law. There is going to be a guard rail do you use the reporter the phrase that there has to be solvency all of these guard rails to make sure that consumers are protected. Representant Allen. Represent Bentley I know your intentions are good and I think your heart is in the right place would you be against the state Insurance Department regulating this. I would be using for would be in the same place we had to do central health care benefits in those kind of things are the rates would be so high wouldn't be any competition at all what we already have so the state is not set in the rates they just regulating the compact unfortunately our a and put in here I think what what whatever I like we have been here I think we will give us the ability to look over the rules and make sure it happens so. At this point I I think we've done what exactly we need to do to make this a good bill senator sorry sorry that's right back down yeah I'm sorry I should have called this is this is a discussion titled stock questions all over I'm sorry that's that's okay okay all right let me make my coming up to make your account Mr chairman and members I will feel a lot better to what this bill if we with all of the state insurance department to regulate. Okay thank you. Any additional comments by members I think we've Would it was okay we'll come back to represent flowers I'm sorry and I I'd I'd. Meant to mention that you know one of the things that. as we sat here I got online there are several complaints and when you read them in the better business bureau with a couple of these companies one faith one not. Where people are complaining about. Prime about. Their claims are not getting reimbursed. being told that something would be covered then they spend the money and you know not getting reimbursed paying for the policy at its a number of things that I just sat here register this time and I think when we think about the near nine thousand complaints just with the mainline regulated policies. Can you imagine what it would be like for those who have no place to go I think one of the reasons that you know we many of us have said we haven't heard anything. Is because these entities are not regulated how would we hear. So I just I want to encourage that. There are ways to protect the public without. Necessarily raising rates and if and. If protecting the public in the instance of healthcare would raise rates then maybe we ought to. I realize that it and some level that's part of doing business that's our first job as legislators is to protect our people. So you know I just wanted to make that point thank you. Represent of would. Thank you Mr chairman. It is section F. here says that of the Commission commissioner shall promulgate rules to implement this section and review Coleman none insurance healthcare benefits coverage of not for profits. And I'll tell you what I don't read that magazine whether she's talking about the phone rings off the hook in my email to my ten X. relative to some of this mainline is well is the the fact that this is so much better than than where we are it just a little a little understand the reluctance of for someone to be able to get insurance cheaper and be able to be medically cared for. And we need to have that. We need we need to be we need to have the insurance policies that are not if you pardon the expression rape and people. Thank you thank you thank represent would This will take someone that wants to speak against represented Ferguson. Well and I mean this is a bigger discussion but the biggest reason insurance rates have gone up since the four characters pre existing conditions are included in when you start taking people out into programs like this they don't cover pre existing conditions you're actually hurting your insurance rates you're not helping them you're increasing your insurance rates by taking those people out of the pool but. Okay. Senate Bram. Thank you Mr chair I just wanted to make the call two comments I think to address Mr Allen's concerned about this being regulated by the insurance department that would then put this program in the position of having to cover all of those mandated coverages for each and every person which is a big reason insurance have gone up over the years having been in the health insurance industry I know. That's a fact and we've all heard in the news. had another comment but I forgot it okay but that's really that's really important to understand that the people are being mandated by your insurance company to pay for things that you don't need I don't need maternity coverage you know me and don't need maternity coverage I don't need you know a bunch of coverages that that maybe me in money and that that that does drop the price up in these policies are created their free market in the allow people to get health care coverage not insurance health care coverage to help them be healthier so maybe they don't get these dreaded diseases and have to have the major expensive treatments later in life. Thank you Representative. Anyone additional. Okay we are now to. trying to remember we do have a motion before us represented brown made motion to pass. At this time uh all those in favor of the motion of do pass signify by saying aye hi all those opposed say no. The eyes have been. Cassie to hand so we will have a roll call. And it is the motion was to do pass as amended so we will go to a roll call. Represented Murdock. Representative Murdock. Representative fielding no. Represented fielding votes now represented Ferguson. Representa Ferguson both now Representative Hodges. Represented Hodges votes No Representative Lundstrum. Represented Lundstrum but yes Representative Kenneth Ferguson. Represented Ferguson both no represented Boyd yeah. Isn't Boyd votes yes Representative flowers. Representative flowers votes no represented brown. Represented brown votes yes Representative Alan. Representative Allen both know Representative Gazaway Representative Gazaway. Representative Pilkington Representative Pilkington represented Penzo yes represented Penzo votes yes Representative wouldn't represent Wooten votes yes represented Clowney. Represent Clowney votes No Representative Richardson. Representative Richardson both No Representative Evans. Representative Evans votes yes Representative ray represented ravens yes. Just you to. Last year yes. And I will vote yes. March. Two three four five six seven eight nine eight nine passed. Represent Bentley I'm sorry did you did receive more votes than those but we have to have eleven to be able to get the bill out of committee. So you're you're welcome to bring the bill back when other members are here bills can be heard twice thank you thank you so much for your time and for your concern capitation thank you. Members we have one less bill the insurance department did have two bills but once been pulled down and this one should be pretty quick except for the length of time it's going to take for me to get down there on my knees cooters so just relax for a minute I'll be there I'll be there in a minute. The. We're doing. Twelve thirty. Twelve thirty nine. And the let you close out the meeting okay. As. Thank represent Lowery and you are recognized to present HB twelve thirty nine and if you would like to have your guests or do some stuff for the record at the time at this time yes I will I will Mr Breyer from the insurance department is here to help me present this bill. Defesa thank you Mr chair to get generator general counsel the Arkansas insurance department this is a of the it is will start with presentations to you that's OK of House Bill twelve thirty nine is really pretty pretty basic we allow agents who were not. Not residents of Arkansas to have non resident licenses but they have to have a resident license in the state in which they live if my understanding of the reason for this bill is one to bring is consistent with other states that if that producer no longer has that resident license we have been required in the past. To notify them that their nonresident license is going to be revoked this bill actually would would do away with that notice consistent with the way that it is done in other states and so I'll let Mr Prater fill in any of the missing pieces. Thank you represent Lowery you can go you can proceed thank you Mr as represent Lowery said this actually gets us into a line with a aligned with how other states handle it this is really kind of administrative function the reciprocity we have with other states if but for an agent is gonna home state and they're in good standing we recognize that and they have good standing here if for some reason that is not related to bad conduct they lose that standing in another state this will permit us to just stick to summarily suspend their license they will have the opportunity if we we always the process is always part of any action that we take the should they raise their hand and say wait a minute you've got the wrong guy or gal or you know we think I we think you're mistaken they are then obviously entitled to a hearing so if we were to have a mistaken or administrative process identify the wrong person or have that information for another state or something like that there would be a way to remedy that so and actually the law that we're cleaning up kind of a conflict in the law there is a place in two thousand eleven where the commissioner was given the authority to summarily suspend such licenses for up for non resident agents are producers and adjusters and and consultants but then if you go to the statute that governs suspensions and revocations it still includes a requirement for hearing for any type of suspension so This squares those to happen recognizes this administrative functions. At there's another section of the bill the the goes to pre licensure education requirements for adjusters and this will apply to a resident adjusters only who are want to sit for the exam right now they are I'm told by accident in two thousand five there were some licensure education requirements put in place and adjusters were left out and are exempt we want to put that back in the place where would you are resident of Arkansas I want to be licensed in your home as order so your home state to sit for the exam you go take the classes prior to sitting for the exam. Before the answer any questions thank you so much for testimony are there any questions by the committee. K. Singh no questions by the committee is there anyone in the audience would like to speak against the bill. We have no one signed up and no one apparently desires to speak against the bill represent Lowery would you like to close for your bill yes I am close for the bill and had to make a motion to pass thank you for that we have a motion or do pass is there any discussion on the motion. Okay no discussion on the motion we have a motion do pass all in favor say aye. Any opposed say no. Gradualist represent Representative you have passed your bill thank you Committee thank you for your patience let me roll down here. And in that regard I'm gonna go ahead and gavel us out thank you Committee weird it's weird